DC/Marvel: It's All Happening Again

We dive deep into the fascinating history of Marvel-DC crossovers, from the 1976 Superman/Spider-Man meeting to the ambitious Amalgam Universe of the mid-90s. Looking back at these collaborations reveals how they've historically revitalized the industry during challenging periods—much like what we're witnessing today.

Our spotlight on the overlooked 1999 Superman/Fantastic Four crossover (where Galactus destroyed Krypton and Superman briefly became his herald) showcases the creative potential when these universes collide. With both franchises heading to theaters in 2025, this crossover represents not just exciting storytelling possibilities but genuine hope for the industry's future.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This far and no farther.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
We make a pod and they push back.
I will make them pay forlistening yeah yeah, pay up.
Gentlemen, let's broaden ourminds.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Are they in the proper approach?
Pattern for today Negative.
Approach pattern for todayNegative.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
All weapons.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Now Charge the lightning field.
I put in minimal effort at work.
Why would I put in any at home?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Because this is something you actually care
about.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
This is actually something I care about more than
work at all.
Well, you know as it should be.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Work is not life.
You're not doing what you love.
You're loving what you do?
No, you're not.
Neither of those is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
This is what I do.
This is what we do.
This is what we do.
There's no bluff in basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Let's welcome you to the show and to the host.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
This is.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Dispatch HX.
I am Jake, I'm Skip, that'sSkipper, hey, hey.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh man, yeah, the morning zoo crew was here
earlier.
Sorry, there was a bad energy.
We had to.
They had to be put down.
One of them started frothing atthe mouth it was the manimal
Jimbo, and the manimal had to go.
We just couldn't do it anymore.
They'd been here since fouro'clock in the morning and we

(01:41):
just.
I work in TV, I don't need theradio.
Assholes up my ass.
I couldn't deal with it anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
And besides, there was no more blow left, so they
couldn't keep it going.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
We had no more blow or K2, so they just fucking rode
off into the sunset, and bythat I mean we burned them out
back in a trash pile.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
They went to live on a farm where zoo crews go and
can enjoy the rest of their days.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Upstate, where they can chase rabbits all day.
Now we're back to our show,finally.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Finally.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
God we can get rid of those dickweeds.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Weed out those dicks, as it were.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's really kind of a metaphor for how radio is gone.
We killed the radio star forour podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I don't know if I understand all this Radio Gaga
you're speaking of.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's just a lot of radio blah blah.
You know what.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I mean, I'm sorry, what was that?
Drunk passing by?
He's fine.
There's liver disease out onthe air man.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Andy, Cap you wife-beating drunk.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, somebody had to .

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Uh-huh yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
On today's.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Dispatch.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Ajax, we're going to look at some comic book stuff.
Hey, Skip, did you hear thenews?
Did you hear this news comingout here, this recent news?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Is Jesus coming back?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Jesus is in fact coming back.
I've been waiting by the window.
He has a new line of sandalsthat he is promoting.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
This is maybe the most embarrassing thing that I
know ever.
There is a Ray Stevens songthat's very similar to this
premise of this bit.
I'm just going to leave thatthere, all right.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
So recently at the Comics Pro Retailer Summit that
we're all clamoring to go toevery year.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I try to get my tickets, man, but it's like two
minutes they're sold out.
It's faster than the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
my man, it's crazy.
Cb Cebulski, the headeditor-in-chief at Marvel, and
Marie Jarvins, Javins, Javins.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
America's sweetheart.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
The head editor-in-chief at DC have
announced that their twocompanies will be collaborating
in the year 2025 of our Lord toput out a DC Marvel crossover.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
I legitimately was surprised by this.
Legitimately was surprised bythis, considering the way that
things go, considering that theemphasis on movies and
properties like that other mediaother than comics.
I was shocked that thishappened because I remember
talking to you about the old DCMarvel crossovers and I kept
thinking like this is nevergonna happen in our lifetimes

(04:20):
again, like who framed RogerRabbit, there's no way that
fucking Warner Brothers andDisney would ever come together,
ever again.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Who Framed Roger Rabbit again, double Jeopardy.
So there are going to be aseries of one-shots that come
out later this year, and thiswill be their first crossover of
the two companies since 2003'sJLA Avengers miniseries.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Which was written in the 80s.
It was Perez and Marv Wolfman,right, and they never finished
it because, like the deal fellthrough at the last minute okay,
okay, kurt Busiek.
Okay, fine, but I know it wasGeorge Perez yes, yes, mr Perez.
I literally sat at a panel whenI talked to him about it and he
was like, yeah, we did that along time ago but they never
finished it because the dealfell through for the crossover

(05:03):
rights.
They had to wait 20 years.
And he was like, yeah, we didthat a long time ago but they
never finished it because thedeal fell through for the
crossover rights.
They had to wait 20 years tofinally get it hammered out.
And it kind of shows,considering a lot of the plot
points in it, but it's stillkind of awesome in some ways.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, it's still ruled.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
When Darkseid is given the Infinity Gauntlet and
he's like what the fuck is this?
And he's just like, oh, it'sthis thing from another universe
.
And he's like fuck that.
And he throws it over hisshoulder worthless trash, it's a
long out of print series.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
They recently released it as a benefit
collection.
That did really really wellgood good for them for George
Perez after his passing rightand in 2025,.
This will actually mark the30th anniversary of the big
Marvel DC event which led to theAmalgam Universe.
These are all things we'vespoken about on previous
podcasts.

(05:53):
Do check them out.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Go check those out, because we rant about how bad
that was.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, I think we talk a lot about the Amalgam
Universe in our comic votes.
Oh yeah yeah, worst comicmarvel ever put out, um that's
true.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, that's a.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
That's a fun episode to check out.
We talk a little bit aboutthese in our different
multiverse series that have comeout in the past that is true.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Strangely, though, we have never actually done an
entire episode about our bigthing where we fix the amalgam
universe.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
We kind of hint at it , but we never do our whole
thing well, maybe we'll have tosee what come to this, because
there has been some artwork thathas popped up that could lead
one to believe that this will bea continuation of some amalgam
stuff oh boy, well, 90snostalgia is all thing.
But it's tough to say whetherthat is legit or just fan stuff.

(06:46):
I mean random Reddit posts andTwitter threads.
There's no real word has comeout about what's heading down
the pike, but this is all comingoff the heels of interesting
fluctuations within the industry.
Some people look at this as abellwether that the industry is
similar to how it was in 1985,where it needed a rejuvenation.

(07:12):
It needed some help with itssales and whatnot, and so they
turned to these two bigcompanies to inject life by
crossing over and combining,which really did inflate the
market there for a bit.
There's a lot of factors thatare at play within the comic
industry.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
So if you go by, say a Rich Johnston, which Take what
he says with a grain of salt,yeah, Some of the stuff he puts
out there.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
I don't know if it's really.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Once again we have addressed Rich Johnston a couple
of times I wrote for him for abrief period.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Some stuff he puts out is really great breaking
news and does challenge thestatus quo, and some of it is
just TMZ garbage.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Recently he put out some quote-unquote news about
the possibility of comic bookprice rises due to the new US
tariffs on Canadian printedcomic books.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well, that's, yeah, I mean that's possible.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
He stated possibly 25% tariffs that could change
comic books from a $4 pricepoint up to a $5 price point.
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Christ, that would affect For a 24-issue comic book
.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, oh.
This could also lead to delaysin Pack-free comic book day and
supply chain issues.
The tariffs on China may worsen, but this is kind of also
coming out of this could killprinted comics, you really-.
It could, but let's just let medo some magic here.
Let me massage you a bit.
Fair enough, Since COVID-19, alot of retailers have felt the

(08:43):
hurt.
There's been supply chainissues, distribution problems, a
general decrease in comics.
The Comics Pro, the tradeorganization that we spoke about
earlier.
When they were speaking tocomic store owners in the direct
market, they had a lot of badthings to say in 2023 to 2024.
To say, in 2023 to 2024, sayingthat 69% of responding

(09:05):
retailers said that sales weredown.
Sales of new comic periodicalswere down 73% from responding
comic shops in 2023 compared to2022, while graphic novel sales
were down 65% in those shops.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
That's really bad.
That is, book sales went upduring the pandemic, so that's a
really bad indicator.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, they were having a lot of issues and there
were a lot of.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Well, no, they weren't, that was rough, oh hey.
Hey.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
A lot of comic shops were having trouble staying
afloat and a lot went under, butthere is some light.
That approached in 2024.
Things began to look up formany in the industry, especially
if you go by Skitched.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Is that a magazine about riding on the back of a
car with a skateboard?

Speaker 2 (09:58):
S-K-T-C-H-D.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
You're trailing the back of a car on a skateboard.
It's a really niche magazine.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
They were looking into things at the beginning of
2025, and they were askingretailers all across the globe
how things are doing, andgenerally things were optimistic
.
So from 2022 to 2023, thingswere pretty dire, but 2023 to
2025, that period have seenthings turn for the better.

(10:25):
There seems to be a generalpositivity coming out of a lot
of what the retailers talkedabout.
Some of this has been finding alot of success in digest size
collections and more accessiblereprints for new and younger
readers, and one thing that'sreally drawn is actual single
sales have increased, notnecessarily across the board,

(10:47):
but for a lot of retailers theyhave seen an uptick and a lot of
that is due to excitement atthe fan base.
A lot of retailers, when theywere asked about talk to,
pointed to a few differentthings the absolute line at DC,
really bringing people in thedoor and not only bringing them
but keeping them.
Marvel, their UltimateSpider-Man and Ultimates line

(11:09):
have done stupendously well.
More nostalgia, not nostalgia.
A lot of this has been newreaders who didn't read the
Ultimate line, and these bookshave been really, really good.
With Jonathan Hickman, his takeon Ultimate Spider-Man and the
Ultimates is currently beingwritten by Dennis Camp and
illustrated by Juan Fregheri,fantastic book, really pushing a

(11:33):
lot of boundaries, reallyputting their version of an
increase, with the GI Joe andTransformers stuff going like
Gangbusters, the new Jason Aaron, tmnt run that people are
really digging.
So thankfully a lot of this isshowing some distinct

(11:58):
improvement and a rejuvenationinto people actually coming and
buying comics, which I thinkkind of points towards good
things for the industry, notnecessarily needing these two
big companies to combine and dosomething.
Now you do have the loomingspecter of Diamond's bankruptcy,
ooh yeah, which post theirmid-90s consolidation of

(12:22):
distribution for comic books.
They have kind of been your onego-to source for years.
But there's been so manyproblems with Diamond, from
their packaging, theirdistribution, their lack of
update, their FOC stuff.
It's been always a prettyconsistent problem for retailers
trying to get product to theirconsumers.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, and they had a monopoly.
I mean, we've talked about itbefore, but they had a monopoly
on distribution.
For those of you who haven'tlistened to those episodes the
comic book companies print comicbooks and you can get them, you
can subscribe to them youalways have been able to to
every major comic book company.
They will ship it to you.
But to get it to a store whereyou can buy it, yeah, after the

(13:01):
90s, there was only well, no,there were some other
alternatives, right up untillike 2006 or 2007.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
There have always been other alternatives, but
we're talking about 90% of themarket.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, oh, they became a monopoly.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
There were always other alternatives, but
essentially Diamond was your,the one place to go to.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Right.
It's also how, like most peoplealso got bags and boards and
your catalogs for upcoming stuffthey basically were the
middleman.
They were the awful capitalistmiddleman that was the buffer
between you and the actualcompany.
So it's not like a mailmancomes and brings you your comics
.
Most of the time it's fuckingdiamond.
That's how you get it.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
But a lot of times they wouldn't bring your comics.
That's right, yes, which is aproblem if you're wanting to
sell comics and or buy comics.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Or they get your order wrong, or if you had to
specialty order something.
Let's say you specialty orderedsomething, like somebody in a
store wants a specific comic.
You can't just go to DC or goto fucking Dynamite and be like,
can I have this comic and yousent it to me, dynamite?
And be like, can I have thiscomic and you sent it to me.
You have to go to Diamond andthen Diamond has to acknowledge
that you exist and then Diamondhas to put in that order and

(14:09):
then Diamond has to go to thatcompany and then Diamond has to
ask them to print off a certainnumber so that it justifies how
many they can just ship to youor whatever.
So they were an awful, awfulcompany but because of the
monopoly they created, now thatthey're going under, it's going
to create even more problems.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
In the recent years you've had some splitting off,
so DC and Marvel both leftDiamond to go with Random House
Publishing and Lunar Publishing.
Now you're having othercompanies, so I think Image has
broken away as well and you'rehaving other smaller companies
go to some other options.

(14:48):
You're having a lot more as thewealth is spreading and so
you're going to have plenty ofcomics that will continue to
stay out and relevant and beable to ship people how they're
going to like, do catalogs andthings.
I don't know yet.
It'll all be online.
Currently, marvel, dc and Imagethey all put out their own
singular catalog.
Yeah, that is paired with thepreviews that Diamond puts out,

(15:10):
but now that Diamond will beeventually, in some form or
fashion, not the same entitythey are now, we'll have to see
how that all shakes out andshapes up.
You think one of them is goingto buy them.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh, I don't know, as long as Amazon doesn't buy them.
They do do similar things, butthey don't do mainstream comics.
So I'm curious.
As long as somebody like Amazondoesn't buy them, I am curious
to see how that adds up, becausethey still have an
infrastructure?
They do, but if you don't haveneither of the big two, or even

(15:45):
I mean third, fourth, fifth, butwhen they go under, can't you
see DC or Marvel being like,well, fuck it, I'll just buy
them now, one up on the othercompetitors.
Then not have to go throughanother company, I mean it's
possible, just own their owndirect chain of, which might
actually lead to them bringingprices down Like I could totally
see that happening.
I don't know that it will.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
I don't know about bringing prices down.
I don't know if I see thathappening.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
I know it's American capitalism, so prices are never
coming down.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
That's wishful thinking.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Oh, no, though they should.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
We're not having wars in the Middle East, but gas is
going to stay the same.
Oh, no, birds and, and they'refine, but we're still going to
keep the price of eggs the same.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
That's just how that goes.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
So it will remain to be seen.
I think a lot of smallercompanies will have trouble
staying afloat.
I think a lot are going tocollapse.
I think you're going to seereorganization of a lot of that
that sucks.
It's going to suck, but changeis good.
I think overall this will help.
At least I'm trying to staypositive.
I think things are looking morepositive than some people are

(16:47):
speculating.
So we'll see.
And I definitely think thismarvel dc crossover will put
juice into some excitement forboth of those companies outside
of their smaller titles thataren't doing as well.
So I mean I mean, like absoluteBatman, absolute Wonder Woman,
absolute Superman are killingthe.

(17:07):
You know the Green Lanternsales or action comic sales or
anything like that Similar tothe Ultimate line is doing so
much better than, say, the X-Menuniverses right now.
So I think having these twocrash into each other will
generate some excitement for atleast a couple issues.
We'll see if they can translatethat into something else.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
It always does.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
This obviously isn't the first time this has happened
.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
No.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
There have been many crossroads between Marvel and DC
over the years for a variety ofreasons.
You can go back to 1976 whenyou had Superman versus the
Amazing Spider-Man.
That was only the first.
In 81, you had Superman andSpider-Man join again.
You also had Hulk encounterBatman.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
We've talked about that before it's great.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
We have talked about that.
I'm just going to lay out someof these.
This is kind of more of layingthe groundwork.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, you're recapping, you're getting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
These are things we will come back to in time, but
your X-Men, teen Titans in 82.
Then you had a couple of BatmanPunishers the Lake of Fire in
94 and Deadly Nights in 94.
You also had Galactus, darksidein 95.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Silver.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Surfer Green Lantern was in 95.
As was Spider-Man and BatmanDisordered Minds.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I had posters of all these on my wall, by the way.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Captain America, batman in 96.
Another Batman-Spider-Man, newAge Dawning, in 97.
This is also about the sametime.
You're having Marvel vs DC.
That was in 96, along with theMalcolm comics from 96 to 97.
You also have Marvel DC AllAccess and Unlimited Access in
97 and 98.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Then you're getting Silver Surfer Superman in 97 and
Fantastic Four Superman in 99,along with Hulk Superman in 99.
You had a Daredevil Batman Eyefor an Eye in 97 and a Daredevil
Batman King of New York in 2000.
Then we got the 2003 AvengersJustice League, which we spoke
about before, and then there wasa Spider-Man Superboy in 2015

(18:59):
and the Spider-Verse issue,which kind of counts.
It's more of a continuation ofthe mid-90s stuff in the Amalgam
universe.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Which raises all sorts of questions.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes, that was kind of talking about Spider-Boy, which
was the fusion BecauseSpider-Verse every issue is
dealing with a ton of differentversions of Spider-Man across
the multiverse.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I'm just shocked that DC let that happen.
Honestly.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Probably some goodwill from all the
Spider-Verse stuff In 15?
.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
In 15?
I don't know.
That seems pretty early Becausethe Spider-Verse, like the
movies, didn't even come outuntil what, like 1920, something
like that 2018.
Sure, I mean, I'm saying it'spretty early.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'm just surprised.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
My time frames, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
I don't know, I don't know.
Good, I'm glad it happened.
I'm just surprised Even thoughthat was one of the lamest
Malcolm I's they did.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Well, most of the Malcolm I's weren't too great,
oh they were all bad.
We're going to fix them, butbefore then, let's journey to
the past, shall we?
So you had the mid-90s we didyeah, sorry what no?

Speaker 1 (20:11):
we did, we had the mid-90s.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I remember that.
It's true, we had them.
You couldn't take care of themso you had to have them taken
away from you.
So in the mid-90s you had kindof a boom in comic books.
You had, you know, the ImageComics came up, your post, jim
Lee, chris Claremont, x-menstuff, your Death of Superman
these are all big time storiesthat were covered outside of
just comic books.

(20:33):
You know you had feature up onCNN and your local drive time
zoo crew.
They would chat about it allthe time Before we had them
killed, before they had to die.
Everybody's got to go.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Which was public service.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
We kill them for you.
Finally justice is served.
But in the back half of the 90sthings have taken a turn.
A lot of the sales were down,things weren't doing super great
, a lot of the crossovers andevents weren't really hitting,
but you kind of had some newvoices step up and take over.
You had a lot of stuff fromVertigo, you had the Wildstorm
universe, you had stuff like theAuthority, tom Strong, danger

(21:10):
Girl, planetary.
These were all coming out in1999.
It's kind of a turning the pageinto a new era of comic books.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Remember, image split up into like 15 different
companies In that time frame.
That's an important context.
Those guys leaving Marvel tocreate image created a huge
turmoil in the big two and then,when image split up, for kind
of the same reasons, they left.
In the first place, you createdwild storm, shadow line, all of

(21:42):
those different spinoffs ofimage with those same creators
who left to join together toform a new company.
Wildcats obviously was jim lee,and so, like he took his
intellectual property and spunoff and created his own company
called wild storm.
Mcfarlane and eric larsonbecame two big anchors of image
and they somehow managed toweather the storm through all
that, the wild storm, as it were.

(22:03):
And then there was, um,obviously Shadowline, was what
Not Silvestri Valentino, top Cow, there you go, that's Silvestri
.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
An image imprint that then spun off into its own,
where you get yeah, and you gotHomage and Cliffhanger and
Darkness and yeah, witchblade.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yes, I think which was also a TV show.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think you had a lot of that stuff.
You can look at it in anegative that it pulled stuff
away from the big two and thatit splintered off.
You could also look at apositive that it allowed for a
lot of different type of storiesand different readers to have
more access to different comicstorytelling.
That was going on.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
It was definitely more of a market at that point.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
You had your dark time postSuperman, batman movies.
You know, this is 1988 whenblade came out.
X-men film is still not till2000.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
So that's when Marvel started actually making movies
that weren't direct to video ormade for TV.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, and, spinning out of that image, wild storm,
vertigo stuff.
You did have more Vertigotitles that were coming, Some
bigger creators coming onto themarket really allowing to do
their own thing.
You had the Ultimate Universestepping up.
That was created in 2002, Ibelieve the Ultimate Universe
was really good at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's waxed and waned over the year, but that allowed
for Well, I mean it disappearedand then came back and then yeah
, but I mean that was allowed.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
creators like Mark Lahr and Brian Michael Bendis,
Warren Ellis different people tothose were the British Invasion
guys, except for Bendis.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Well, right, except for Bendis.
I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Bendis is like your Geoff Johns, where it's like he
was part of that same wave,mm-hmm, but definitely not
British at all no, but he did.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
He did a good Marvel run, but I mean there was a yeah
, there was that whole yeah, hedid.
Actually he had an Avengersbook.
That was actually pretty good.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I'm sorry.
I mean it's not compared to hisflash or Green Lantern or his
Hawkman.
No, I know, it was GSA.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, no, that's way better, granted, but I mean,
like it's not bad, I would, youknow, for a first-time writer,
pretty, pretty okay, you know.
And boy, that's a guy thatdisappeared real fast for good
reason.
Yeah, I mean, a lot of thoseguys were just like the guys
that came over during the comicsbritish invasion in the 1980s,
mid-1980s morrison, alan Moore,ellis Gaiman, mark Miller.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Gaiman's.
A little before that, gaimanwas like your tail end of the
first British invasion.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
All of those British invasion guys then moved over to
like after they had their DCruns Because Mark Miller wrote
for fucking.
Superman for a while you knowlike they all had their run in
DC, Just like Morrison and justlike for fucking.
Superman for a while, you knowlike they all had their run in
DC.
Well, I don't Just likeMorrison and just like Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, I don't think DC is necessarily where everyone
cuts their teeth and they moveto Marvel necessarily.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
No, but that's what happened in this case.
They went to Image.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
He worked on Marvel UK before you ever did any DC
stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, okay, ellis is kind of a weird case, though,
because he did all of it.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
I'm just saying you're painting with this broad
brush and I don't think itapplies to everybody, that's all
.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
All I was trying to say was that there is context
for this, because we've talkedabout the British invasion
before and a lot of those guyswere part of the British
invasion and then they ended upin no matter how many stops they
made in between, ended upeither.
In Image, doing this in thisera.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mm-hmm, yeah, About this time you're having Mike
Carey and Brian Nazarello and ohyeah, Mike Carey.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, who's the one that did Swamp Thing after Alan
Moore?
Veach, Rick Veach.
Yeah.
Also great run, yeah, yeah.
True, Really great writers, kindof underrated writers it's just
to give some context of thattime frame of kind of like
falling out of that early 90shype, mid-90s glut into the late

(25:57):
90s, early 2000s, right steamin strides, new voices, new
writers the only reason Ibrought that up was because I
was trying to say that whenimage split off from marvel,
basically it was just a bunch ofcreators who were like upset
that they didn't get and this iscontext for other people who
didn't listen to our previousepisodes.
For instance, todd McFarlanecreated Venom and Venom was a

(26:17):
huge thing in the 90s, but hedidn't see a dime extra for
Venom being enormous and so theyall left out of sort of protest
, because Marvel owned theirstuff, no matter what they did
or how popular it was, and theywere getting paid shit.
So image creator owned Right.
So they went creator owned andcreated image, which is their

(26:37):
own thing.
The problem was with early imagestuff was that a lot of the
guys that left were just artists.
They weren't even writers.
There were a few, but not verymany, and so a lot of the books
were just hollow replicas ofstuff they'd done before.
Wildcats was just X-Men, butwithout Chris Claremont, and it
was just Jim Lee and it wasgarbage.
Early on this era the mid tolate 90s, early 2000s they

(27:02):
finally started getting some ofthose really good prestige
writers, of those really goodprestige writers like Ellis,
like Morrison, like Miller.
Those guys.
They came on to things likeWildcats and Authority and
things like that.
In fact, I think most of thosepeople were eventually a writer
on Authority, if I rememberright.

(27:23):
Yes, most of the people you'vesaid.
Well, it was Ellis Morrison andMiller, right?

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
And then Veach, if I remember right.
I don't think, rick ever had.
It was somebody else, thoughthere was another guy that went
in there later after fuckingMiller.
But anyway, these writers gavecredibility to those spinoff
company wise and it kind ofsaved them from the brink of
extinction.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, there was less flash, like your image and your
Aspen and things like that, moresubstance, which is really what
is going to bring the flash ofthe early 90s.
That wasn't going to sustain,that wasn't going to bring
readers long-term.
No, which is kind of what yousaw with the big pecs, big guns,
big pouches mid-90s comic stuffLiefeld oh God, we didn't even

(28:19):
mention Liefeld.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
That's funny, we didn't even mention Liefeld.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, he's just part of that image group, you know?

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, I mean Youngblood which just part of
that image group, you know.
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah, I mean Youngblood, whichis also an X-Men ripoff.
I'm still waiting on my wetworks number five, or whatever.
I'm still.
I'm still waiting at the doorevery day.
He's, he's trying.
We got planetary number 25before you ever got wet works
number five or whatever somestuff just never gonna happen,
and that's fine.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
I'm still waiting on my fell issue 12 or whatever
well, you got to find the cabthat that script fell out into.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, Whatever backseat of whatever woman's car
that he was in.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
But just to give you some context, we're going to
highlight the idea of thisepisode, which is kind of
looking at things, and then theMarvel DC crossover that's
happening at the time.
So in 1989, you had two sets ofcharacters that I'd say were
kind of at a down point in theirreadership and I'd say
currently somewhat similar nowmaybe not as much as 1989, but

(29:20):
just in context In 1999, this isduring Claremont's fairly dull
run on the third series ofFantastic Four and in 1999, this
is mere months after the blueand red Electro Superman era
that we had a lesser red andkind of drifted into obscurity
crossover of Superman and theFantastic Four Treasury Edition.

(29:43):
It came out July 1999.
Now I wanted to highlight thisone because it's Marvel DC
crossover, which kind of whatwe're just talking about all in
the news.
You kind of had these twocharacters that were kind of
down at the time.
Neither was being read andhaving that much great comics
being put out and three,fantastic Four isn't doing great

(30:04):
right now and Superman, atleast as far as I could tell,
has been and the action comicsdid okay the past couple of
years and the absolute Superman,I think, is doing well, but
overall Superman isn't doingsuper great, but both Fantastic
Four and Superman are havingmovies made of them in the

(30:24):
theater in 2025.
So I thought it'd be fun to goback and look at one of these
crossovers, you know, 26 yearsago, and see what was going on
then.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
I was thinking about that, what you just said.
I was like oh, that's SupermanRed and Blue, which is I know
dumb, but it was like a callbackto an old 50s story where that
happened.
That's actually it's not.
It wasn't like original for the90s, it was actually a retro
thing or whatever.
But that was at the same timethat they did a JLA Wildcats
crossover, when he was SupermanBlue but DC had just bought

(30:57):
Wildstorm.
So, whatever, it doesn't count,I guess.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, the JLA Wildcats that would have been in
97.
Yeah, it was in that same eraGod.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
he was superman blue for a long time in comic book
years yes, yes, that's weird hewould.
He was superman blue longerthan he had a mullet well, I
mean, both were electrifying, soso one of these days we're
gonna have to talk about howlorenzo lamas and renegade is
100% just Nomad.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, 100% yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
It's the same exact thing, the great Nomad run.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
I don't think when I worked at the comic shop we
could even give away an entirerun of Nomad.
No, there's no way, we had all25 issues plus limited series
and the annuals could not sellit.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Didn't Brubaker do a really good job of explaining
that character in that run ofhis of captain america, what he
was like a paranoidschizophrenic.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
I would have to go back and read that.
Oh, I'm pretty sure he did.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
I'm pretty sure there's one issue where they go
back because he was one of thebuckies and then he back in
those days before before theLorenzo Llamas days, he had a
costume, it was like yellow andblue, and I'm pretty sure they
do an issue where they addresswhat happened to him.
It was basically like JamesGunn's super or kick-ass or

(32:19):
whatever, where he's imaginingthat he's a hero.
He's not really anything.
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I mean there have been so many Edward Fur and your
Ricky Barnes, your Ian Rogers,your Jack Monroe, there's no,
that's a whole thing, so I don'tremember off the top of my head
.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Everybody forgets there were several Buc-ees and
that there were several CaptainAmericas.
People always forget that therehave been many of both of those
characters.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
It's comic books.
There's so much.
I mean it's like trying tofigure out what's going on.
The X-Men right now.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Well, but I mean there's only been three Batman
ever, but there's been like fiveCaptain Americas.
You know what I mean.
Like it's a little different,but you know.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
I don't know if there have been five Captain Americas
.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
I know there were multiple people that were Cap
over the years, but Batman hasalways just been either Bruce
Wayne, Dick Grayson or John PaulValley.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
That's true.
That's definitely less.
I will give you that.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
It's a Sesame Street episode also.
One two, three Captain America1999.
, Picture it Sicily 1999.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
All right.
So here's at least aconceptually interesting premise
.
I'm going to lay this out foryou.
What if Galactus had traveledacross the universal dimensional
boundary and was responsiblefor the destruction of Krypton
and, upon witnessing theproto-Cal-El escaping on a ship,
earmarked him for service ashis herald of the future?

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Oh man, jake, oh man, oh man.
That's really funny Because Iwas when I was moving back here.
Joe and I were in the car andwe were like we had that
horrible thing where we werestuck in a hotel for three days.
I was telling him about ouramalgam thing and he's like, oh,
that is a really good,interesting idea.

(34:12):
And he started thinking aboutit.
We were both like, hmm, whatwould you do?
And I was like what if Galactusdestroyed Krypton and Kal-El
was his herald?
Or what if the silver surferwas from Krypton or whatever?
So that's damn it, it's alreadybeen done, fuck.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
It's true, it has already been done.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Damn it.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Dan Juergens came up with that first.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Of course it was Dan Juergens.
He did Superman.
He did all the consummateSuperman stuff in the 90s.
Then he did that Spider-Man runand that Thor run.
He was doing JLA and Supermanat the same time, which was
crazy.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Does he have stamina for that?
I mean, that's a lot of bodiesto go through.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well, he did it so I guess.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
So I've seen the condoms on the floor he took
care of business.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Don't tell me it didn't happen.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
I've seen him do Superman and the Justice League
at the same time.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
I seen it.
He had blood, wind on one endand ice on the other.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Frosty tip.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Motherfucker had ice and fire double stacked.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Oh man, I'm melting as we speak.
That's what we have too, so I'mgonna walk you through the
issue here.
Yeah, please do so.
You see Krypton destroyed andGalactus is there.
We jump to the present day anda craft that was sent by
Galactus for Superman comes toEarth.

(35:38):
There's a shadowy figure thatsees the crystal headed for
Earth intercepts, earthintercepts, but the next thing
we see is that Crystal findsSuperman as he is in the middle
of defusing a nuclear bomb thathas been set up by what appears
to be Muslim extremists.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
It's not even the nuclear man.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
No, no, it's very much like infidels.
You will all perish.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
True lies.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Great.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Right.
I mean, isn't it, isn't thatthe same premise?
That's the fucking plot of TrueLies.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
I know that it is racist and has the bad guys be.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Muslim extremists.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I don't remember like if they're just like dealing.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I remember in True what the what their goal was it
was after the original worldtrade center bombing, so it was
about, yeah, muslim extremists.
That was the whole.
Premise is that they were gonnaget their hands on whatever
mcguffin yeah, I mean, that waslike the year before.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
I wonder if they even hmm that was the zeitgeist true
lies came out months after theworld trade center bombing, and
then this was 99, so we'retalking like another seven years
after that.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
That was the American mindset at the time.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, yeah, it was just a-.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Which got worse.
It was just disappointing tosee it especially pre 9-11.
There was a Superman arc in the90s where there's a Saddam
Hussein stand in that Supermanfights.
It's the fictional country ofKarak.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Where Black Adam?
Oh, that's Kondok.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's Kondok.
That's actually in North Africa.
This is the Middle East.
It's like sandwiched betweenKuwait and Iraq.
Nice, yeah, that's good stuff.
Yeah, that's where we were.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, I wasn't happy to see it, but anyway.
So this crystal comes, findsSuperman.
It appears to be a Kryptoniancommunique from his father,
Jor-El.
Now I don't know if you'reimagining Marlon Brando or
Russell Crowe.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Always.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
But it combined the two and that's who's talking.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Wow, great acting and bad acting.
It's so weird no accent and anearpiece.
I'm so confused.
It's so weird no accent and anearpiece.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
I'm so confused.
Which was the great acting,which was the bad acting?
That's the good question.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
I don't know.
It depends on what year it does.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
It depends how much wine is involved.
What if we're just combiningold Pope's Exorcists Crow and
Island of Dr Moreau Brando?

Speaker 1 (38:04):
You could swap those guys and no one would notice.
It's like Black Cat andCatwoman.
When Marvel and DC wanted to dothat to bring it back around
hey, don't be smirching my cat,ladies.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Whoa hey.
But you're not taking a side onwhich I like what I like.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
But you're not taking a side on Felicia versus Selina
.
I've tried.
I've tried to do this.
Only people like you and I allthe geeks at the fucking comic
book store have had this debateever.
I I can't.
I can't every time I likethat's why they wanted to swap
them.

(38:43):
That's why they wanted to swapthem, because nobody can.
Everybody's like oh, they'rekind of the same exact fucking
character and it's, and it's notlike deadpool, and I'm not
gonna say you're right, I'm justnot gonna say anything just
because you're proud.
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
I get it uh, russell crowe's jor-el comes to him.
He tells his son that it wasindeed Galactus that destroyed
their world and that he is toavenge us, my son, before he
disappears.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
So, Superman.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
He's like oh shit, I got to go do this.
I don't need help from theexperts.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
No, not the X-Men.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
No, the experts.
So we cut to a little.
Franklin Richards and he'splaying with toys and you see
that we're playing with aSuperman toy.
You also see that there's aBatman and a Robin toy down
there that he's playing with.
They explain that the DCcharacters are from the cartoons
in the 616 universe, but whenhe's talking about it with his
mom they reference that theyknow Superman is real and in

(39:45):
another universe.
So I believe that they wereassuming that they're
referencing the 1995 DC Marvelcrossover.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
I would imagine so, because they are creating and
keeping canon even within the616 universe.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Well, no, I think we'll find that this is not an
in-canon adventure, but soyou're saying I'm DCing a Marvel
story?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
That's what's happening right now.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Just have fun with it .
Don't think too hard, Okay allright.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, don't look too hard into it, sure?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
So the Fantastic Four are just doing some science-y
stuff in their warehouse, as youdo.
At this point in time they'dlost the Baxter building, so
they're just in a dock warehouse, I don't know, like Doc Ock in
Spider-Man 2?
.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, yeah, actually just like that, because those
are always hanging around in NewYork and no developers bought
any of that shit up.
Blackrock doesn't own that atall, nope, nope.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Just free space for anybody to move in at any time.
Do your super science.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
And then cops never think to look there.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Why would they?
And then all of a sudden,superman just shows up.
They don't explain how he gotthere.
Okay, doesn't matter, he's justthere, okay.
So Clark shows this crystalthat he has, that we believe of
Kryptonian origin, to explainwhat's going on, why he's there
and everything.
But the crystal zaps theircomputer, stuff in their

(41:04):
computer which turns all oftheir super science stuff
against them all.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Superman is helping to defend them, but then he gets
zapped by a probe and kidnapped.
An anal probe, a large analprobe it looks like an egg, so
it's-.
It smells like Gwyneth Paltrow.
It's an unidentified egg objectUEGs as you hear about in the
news all the time.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
He is a pretty talented amateur rectal
photographer.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Get right up there.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
No, I would hate to.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
During this process of them fighting the computer
stuff, tech bits start flyingoff and coming together to
create Cyborg Superman.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Oh weird.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Now, one thing that this does and always pisses me
off about Cyborg Superman isthat he was a nothing.
A bunch of tech bits cometogether and make a cyborg body,
but then they show him againwith the little bit of face and
the coif of hair.
That is actual biologics.
How did he create that?
It wasn't there before you saidthis always pisses you off.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Does this happen all the time it?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
does Constantly happening.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Okay, that's an everyday occurrence for me.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Every time I see Hank Henshaw, I'm like you, fucker.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I mean, is that on purpose?
Because Hank Henshaw is part ofDC's answer to the Fantastic
Four?

Speaker 2 (42:33):
If you wait, we will get to that.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Okay, I'm sorry, my bad.
I'm sorry You're right.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I'm sorry, it's like you wrote this in a hotel room,
suffering from COVID.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Why are we?
Oh okay, wait what?
That's a very specificreference.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
It was.
That's what you guys had justtalked about.
You kind of came up with asimilar plot, remember?
No, all right, anyway.
Rewind the episode and you'llunderstand what I'm talking
about, anyway.
So he sees Superman and tryingto escape from his pod being

(43:10):
possessed by Galactus and begsto take his place.
Begs to take Superman's place,but he has stopped before
reaching Superman's pod.
Superman then gets envelopedand emerges as the Golden Herald
At least that's what I call him, because he's all shiny gold.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Does he look like Waverider or something?
Ish, because he's all shinygold.
Does he look like Waverider orsomething?

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Ish, yeah, I'm kind of like an Oscar statue.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
but you know, with the Superman stuff, silver
Surfer, but gold.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, yeah kind of.
I mean he's not like he doesn'tlose his hair or anything, so
he's just like encased in goldin a way.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Gotcha.
So like steel, but gold.
Well, steel doesn't have hair,so oh, so he's like a later
Captain Adam.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yes, yeah, more similar to that.
Okay, he is now imbued with thepower cosmic which Reed says,
combined with his ownextraordinary abilities, makes
Superman the second mostpowerful being in existence.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Well, yeah, I mean, it's hat on a hat right there it
very much so is.
Superman needs the power.
Yeah, I mean it's hat on a hatright there.
It very much so is Supermanneeds the power of cosmic.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
I don't think so, but he got it.
But I don't know.
Is he going to stack up againstlike the Eternal or Darkseid,
or With the power of cosmic.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, I mean, because , like was it Hickman that did
the what ifs, those short ones,the one where Thor became the
Herald of Galactus.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
They just did a whole series of what-ifs with
Galactus just recently.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Oh really, that sounds cool.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Let me pull those up.
What if Galactus transformedGambit into his Herald,
transformed the Hulk into hisHerald?
Moon Knight, rogue andSpider-Gwen?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I don't care about any of that, all right.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Well, there's your knowledge of the day.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I mean do you All right?
Well, there's your knowledge ofthe day.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I mean, do you?
I just like what-ifs?
Okay, so do I.
I love what-ifs.
I married a what-if in Canada.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
You don't know her.
She goes to a different highschool.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
You'll see her.
Just look at the latest issueof Vogue.
She's in there.
Promise.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
It's a side-fun episode.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
So Reed tries to grab him, but in doing so he gets
zapped away.
They both get blipped towherever Galactus is.
Now.
Cyborg Supes and the rest ofthe Fantastic Four join forces
to go search for them, eventhough he's a bad guy.
So Superman has been destinedsince the time he was an embryo,

(45:26):
flying away from the dyingworld, to serve Galactus'
interest.
Superman quickly acquiesces,despite Reed trying to reason
with him, to fight, being takenover or, I guess, giving his
will to Galactus.
There's a momentary memory ofLois that gives him a pause, but

(45:47):
the transformation is finalized.
Reed continues his vain attemptto halt Galactus and Superman's
actions, but he is confined andonly able to watch.
He's put in the cosmic cupchair and he just has to take it
in, isn't?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
that one of the Orions from the New Gods, the
cosmic cup chair.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
That's one of.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Jack.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Kirby's best inventions, by the way, jack
Ryan's like in every hotel,there's going to be a cosmic
cook chair.
Jack Ryan, is he Jack Ryan?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, From Clear and Present Danger.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Get out of my cock chair.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I think he picked a different Harrison Ford role.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
I know I'm done spraying all over you, but
there's enough materialconnecting the two that you can
follow along my leaps in logic.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
I get the train of thought.
It's just funny because fivedifferent actors have played
Jack Ryan, but then you wentwith a different Harrison Ford
role.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, but you could have seen it's like quoting.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Witness and talking about Jack Ryan.
Oh, you remember Jack Ryan inWorking.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Girls.
I remember when Jack Ryan, hehad a whip and a hat and just
Robin Graves.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Wasn't Jack Ryan, that one in 16 Candles that
Molly Ringwald was in love with?

Speaker 2 (47:15):
I don't remember who that was.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
It was Jake.
The character's name is Jake,something.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Oh, literally Jake, something.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Well, I mean, it'd probably be more interesting.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
There's a wrestler named Jake something.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh, is there really?

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, yeah, how about that?

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Is your spirit animal .

Speaker 2 (47:31):
No comment.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
You could just put your face on his body at any
time.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
It's me.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
It's better than Jake the snake, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Oh, that's rough, it sure is Poor guy.
All right.
So the Fantastic Four andCyborg Superman, they gear up to
go.
There's a retelling of theirshared origins.
So, as you pointed out before,they kind of follow along the
same lines.
If anything, one is an homageto the other.
In a twisted way, both a groupof space explorers that get

(48:08):
imbued with cosmic radiation.
But while the Richards familygained superpowers, henshaw's
crew died from the radiation.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
So they do the radiation.
Oh, okay, so they do address it.
Okay, cool, they do.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
They do it?
Yeah, because he's kind of likeretelling this tale.
It drove one to use theirtalents for the good of mankind,
while the other resented hisfate and the loss of his human
body, thus declaring war on itsgreatest champion, Superman.
Wow, Interesting champion.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Superman.
Wow, interesting, they don'taddress the Fantastic Four
stand-ins in Planetary at anypoint.
No, we're not going to do thatyeah.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
You're getting a little wacky at this point,
Skipper.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Isn't that Wildstorm?
They own it.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I don't think.
When did Planetary even comeout?
I don't think they was even outyet.
No, they make.
Essentially the Fantastic Fourare the bad guys in the
Planetary series.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, which is fucking great.
They do that in Super God too.
Actually, the Morgan Lucas issupposed to be a stand-in for
the Fantastic Four.
Yeah, Good book.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Good book.
So as they're getting ready toleave, Franklin gives his mom
his Superman toy for good luckand they depart.
Superman as the Golden HeraldAgain I made up that name, but
it fits he finds a planetuninhabited for Galactus to feed
.
Galactus is like hey, did youpick out this planet because it
doesn't have any life on it?

(49:33):
And Superman's like no, thisone will serve your purposes, I
aim only to serve.
And so Galactus munches downthe FF.
They find them.
You know, it's apparently supereasy to just go anywhere in the
universe and they try and stopthem in vain as they're easily
defeated.

(49:55):
As they're getting ready toleave, Superman sees the husk of
the devoured planet thatgalactus just chowed down on and
becomes troubled with somethingdeep in his mind.
But they proceed on.
They came upon a new world,this time inhabited with
intelligent beings.
The fantastic four again showup and try to stop them, but
can't really do much of anything.
Superman, at this point, has acrisis of faith, wondering if

(50:15):
Galactus has a soul.
No, he confronts Galactus andhe thinks about his little green
world.
That was no more.
He then betrays Galactus but iseasily put down.
In that moment Superman's onthe ground from cosmic eye
blasts.
Moment superman's on the groundfrom cosmic eye blasts.

(50:39):
Hank aims to gain perfectionwith the tech of galactus,
hoping to become his equal.
Galactus always has machinesthat he's hanging out in yeah,
very jet kirby things yes sohank's trying to like get in
there.
He thinks that by usinggalactus's cosmic powered imbued
tech, he'll become like theperfect version of Cyborg
Superman.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Okay, if Orion sits in the cosmic cuck chair, then
Galactus stands in the cosmiccuck stand up desk.
I mean, you know what I'mtalking about.
You can see it in your mind.
You know exactly what I'mtalking about.
I know you do.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
I just don't know if it has the same
roll-off-the-tongue version.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
No, it wasn't marketed very well.
Why do I have to stand at thisdesk?
Just watch, it's like theaction desk and that's why we
have the cosmic cubicle.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Comes with the reverse quarry hole.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Sorry, my headphones fell out.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
It is then, at this moment, as Superman rise on the
ground, he sees the toy of hisvisage that has fallen in battle
, and voila, he just becomes hisold Superman again.
All the cosmic powers is gone.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Good.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
He just does it.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (51:53):
There's no process.
He decides no and he's justback to being Superman.
He then teams with theFantastic Four.
They make a joke about it beingpretty easy to change that S on
his chest to a five.
Oh, and they are able tosecretly reverse the flow on
Galactus's world-consuming tech,which starts to drain energy

(52:14):
from him.
They then give him an ultimatum.
He has to choose to eithercontinue doing what he's doing
and he'll have the life force,or whatever drain from him.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Sorry, Patrick Stewart.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Or yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Cosmic vampire.
Right yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Cosmic vampire.
You know you.
You know you heard it, you'veseen it.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Or.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
He can promise Never to eat Another inhabited world
Again, and they'll let him.
Let him live and go do histhing.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Alright.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Galactus agrees, as the word of Galactus Is bond,
which is what he says Alright,superman, read my lips.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
No more worlds, I am not a cosmic crook.
Just what he says All right,superman confronts Read my lips.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
No more worlds.
I am not a cosmic crook.
Why am I combining president'squotes now?
No, it seemed fair.
Sometimes it works, sometimesit doesn't.
So he makes the promise.
They flip his switch back, sonow he can munch down on
non-inhabited worlds.
Superman then confrontsGalactus and says, hey, he

(53:19):
should pay for his destructionof Krypton.
But despite him saying that hecraved to eat Krypton we're
going to make Galactus pay forit.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
It's going to be a beautiful new Krypton.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
It's going to be the best Krypton you've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
It's going to be the best Krypton you've ever seen.
It's going to be beautiful.
We're going to make them payfor it.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
We're going to make them pay.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Galactus is going to pay for it all.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
My good spacefarer, jd Vance.
He's got it all planned out.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I don't talk to him about this, but it's going to be
huge.
We've got the high evolutionaryworking on all of it.
I trust him.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
He's got great ideas, folks.
I mean, how can you have aproblem?

Speaker 1 (53:54):
with it.
We're going to take it all theway to the living tribunal.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
We're going to take it all the way to the highest
court, my good buddy Darkseid.
He says he's got eyes for allof us.
Beautiful red eyes, Omega beams.
Who doesn't want an omega beam?
He's got incredible omega beams, god damn it, I know so.
Superman confronts him and hesays but despite him craving to
eat Krypton, it was gone by thetime he arrived that the crystal

(54:20):
had been sent to one day sothat he could then piggyback on
a ride to the other universe andget Galactus and his power.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Oh, okay, okay, wait is that a retcon, or is that
afterward?

Speaker 2 (54:46):
No, so you do see, as the crystal is coming to Earth
at the beginning of the issue,you do see a dark figure in
space.
See it and approach it.
You don't actually see anythinghappen.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
The next thing you see Then what we were
complaining about, aboutGalactus creating Hank Hankshaw
and the whole bionic thingdoesn't matter, right, because
he already exists.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
When he cyborgs Superman.
We were talking about how it'sannoying that he created him
with the bionic part.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Well, no, so Galactus didn't have anything to do with
this.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
I thought you said that Galactus manifested Cyborg
Superman.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
No, no, cyborg.
Superman wanted Galactus',cosmic power and cosmic tech.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
That's the reveal now I was angry that every time
Cyborg Superman shows up he hasthat little bit of skin and hair
.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Even though it's coming out of nothing.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
And eventually he had , like the Rachel or whatever,
if you remember that era Afterhe was Cyborg Superman.
He just went by Cyborg, whichsucks because there's already a
black dude named Cyborg and youhad to ruin that for him too.
He had the Rachel from Friendshaircut.
All his cybernetics became red.
This is that era.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Now Ugh.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Yuck.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Yes, no, he's definitely.
Uh, he's got the long flowingbang.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
But he only has hair on like one side.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Essentially yes, only he's got like six inches of
scalp.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
He's got a half Rachel.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
She just has the rach .

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, because it was before her nose job.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Pre-jobbing, I see.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Well, that's a horse of a different color.
You know what I mean?
Hey, you Got nothing.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
So Henshaw then goes to, you know, after he's
admitted all this, he demandsperfection from Galactus, and
Galactus delivers.
He zaps him with his cosmic eyebeams that melt him into a
flawless square of alloy,condensed form of a simple
perfection, probably withoutthought or consciousness.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
These are many reasons why it's not in canon.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Well, yeah, obviously .

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Then Galactus just is gone, we're back on Earth and
Superman thanks Franklin for hisinvaluable help, gives him his
toy back and gives him his cape,and then he flies away, with
everyone smiling as theadventure comes to a close.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
As I close the comic book at the dentist office and
put it back down on the tablefor everyone else to read.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Oh no, Spider-Man has to fight the molar monsters.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
No, he has to fight Smokescreen remember.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
There is a Spider-Man dentist, one where there's
plaque monsters he has to fight.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Really, because every time I went to the dentist as a
kid, it was always Spider-Manand Storm versus Smokescreen,
the anti-smoking one.
You don't remember this?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
No, I do remember it.
I'm just trying to track downthe dentist Spider-Man one.
No, that's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I would like to see that.
Actually, it's probably aroundthe same time.
I was reading all those issueswhere most superhero dilemmas
can be solved by hostessTwinkies.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Uh what.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
You don't remember those ads Maybe those were only
only like 70s comics.
They would have ads in the backwhere it would be both DC and
Marvel, where it'd be like oh no, the Green Goblin is a menace
and he's wreaking havoc.
Well, here are hostess Twinkiesthat Spider-Man throws to them,
and then they're like sodistracted by how delicious
Twinkies are that they're easilycaught.
And the same thing with Batmanand like the Penguin, like they

(58:15):
both did that.
Well, it's true, right?
Well, yeah, obviously.
I mean duh, that's why mostsuper villains today
statistically have diabetes.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I mean statistically.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
You saw the penguin series.
I mean it's not inaccurate.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Don't tell me it didn't happen.
I saw it happen.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah, it was like they would like throw Twinkies
or fruit pies at them and thenthey'd be like, oh no, this is
so good, I forgot to rob thisbank.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Oh man, but those fruit pies, I can understand how
they were.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Oh man, you know what I still love the chocolate ones
.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Those are so good, oh , gross gross.
You don't like chocolate,though that's true, I don't, so
it sounds gross.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Okay, but you know what the best ones were?
The Ninja Turtles yes, I wasjust about to say that with the
green ooze.
Fuck yeah, dude, yeah, yeah.
Well, no, they had greenfrosting and they had vanilla
custard inside.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
No, some of them had the green ooze inside.
No, yes, that's a.
Mandela effect that is aMandela effect?

Speaker 1 (59:07):
No, I used to have one every morning before karate
practice.
I had them too.
They had green frosting andthey had vanilla custard inside.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Okay, yes, okay, you're right.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I know they were so good.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I fucking Mandela'd myself, didn't I?

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I know, I know, I know, I was like no, no, don't
do it.
They were so good though.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Those were the best ones.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
They were so good.
Pudding pies, pudding pies,that's right.
Ninja Turtles pudding pies.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Let's not even pretend that there's fruit or
anything in them.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
No, no, they make no.
No, there's no pretense there.
They know exactly what it is,you're eating pudding.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
I know that the other fruit pies were so bad for you.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Oh, they're still terrible for you and somehow
still the same price they were30 years ago, which is also not
a good sign.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I don't think they've made any more of them.
I think they just found a box.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
It's like candy corn, where they only made like batch
, like 60 years ago, and we'restill eating them yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
We lost the recipe.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Or it's like Coke, where they never trademarked it,
they just put it in a vault.
Yeah, oh man, never trademarkedit, they just put it in a vault
.
Yeah, oh man, that necto coolerwhich they had for a crazy long
time after ghostbusters waseven relevant.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Yeah, they brought it back a few times.
Well, never quite the same no,well, we that's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
But see, that's one of those things we talked about
medela effect, I think it wasthe same, but we, because it was
packaged or labeled differently, it didn't feel like it I bet
there was some dye that theylegally couldn't use anymore.
Well, that's probably true,like old red M&Ms back in the
day.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Yeah, oh, this.
I just found this.
It's like an enamel pen, butit's the advertisement for the
Hostess Turtles pies.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
This is awesome, fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
I want that.
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I wonder if anybody's just selling those pies.
I mean, I'm sure you could makethem at home, but it'd be a
hassle Pudding pie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yeah, you know what, though?
I bet you, if they do, they arestill from the early 90s and I
guarantee you they're so fuckinggross now, Though they're
probably pristine consideringall the preservatives in there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
At least on eBay, nobody is currently selling a
legitimate pudding pie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
It's because they were too good.
Everyone ate them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Can't help it, cannot help it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I'm glad that you and I both had the same experience.
It's like that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Mr T cereal, or like I mean TMNT, was my favorite
cereal too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yeah, that was a good one too, with the marshmallows
it was essentially like ricechecks With little marshmallows.
Yeah, and four different colors, though pastel, not the colors
that they would wear In theirmasks.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Oh shit, I could buy one.
They've got the original ones.
One for $65.
Sealed, 1990.
Comes with a free ID wallet.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Whoa, holy shit.
That was the year the moviecame out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
This is like right at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Wow, that is early on .
I mean, even the cartoon cameout in like 87.
Wow, I would eat the shit outof it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Oh yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
I would then die of dysentery, but it would be
totally worth it.
I died as he lived folks.
Of dysentery.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Well, we hope that you guys don't die of dysentery
and we hope that this newcrossover really nails it out of
the park a little bit betterthan this 1999 Superman.
Fantastic Four one did, whichwas an interesting concept but
didn't really deliver anddefinitely isn't worth the.
I think the only one I sawonline was a $90 copy available

(01:02:51):
in fine, very fine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
That one is one of the few, I think, I've never
read.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
That's really interesting yeah, I think it
only came out in the treasuryedition size.
It's very hard to find and veryexpensive I would, imagine.
So yeah so on ebay you'relooking like there's one that's
30 dollars.
That's from germany, so it's ingerman, but like 80.
Yeah, tough to come by, yeah,which is why I hadn't read it

(01:03:18):
until just recently.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
That's cool that you found it, because I had never
even read that.
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Yeah, well, that's why I wanted to pick it, because
I didn't think anybody had readthis one.
No, nobody's read that one, sonow you don't have to, because I
did it for you, because it'snot great, so that's fine, it's
not great.
You're not really missing a tonof good art.
Again, there's, like I don'tknow, a couple cool concepts.
You know Galactus, destroyingKrypton, making Superman a

(01:03:46):
herald, maybe Hank Henshawtrying to do something, but
Something.
There's also so much that justis not explained and it was like
I don't care, whatever.
Hey, he's uh, he's in uh marvelworld.
Who cares?
You don't give a shit.
Read the book, just shows youalready bought it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
I don't care it's like that episode of uh extras.
When the lead singer of coldplay just shows up in the sitcom
, you're like, why would you behere?
Like what?
Like, why would you be in thisepisode?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
that's's good stuff.
Yeah, maybe we'll cover thecrossover issues when they come
out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Well, we probably will.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
See what's happened with those.
We'll have to wait and see howthat shakes out.
We'll have to hopefully seethat it continues to helping the
comic market and see how thefall of Diamond shakes out with
that.
But check back and we mighthave some info on all that as it
happens.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
All that jazz.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Dispatch Ajax, your favorite geek podcast.
Yeah, damn right, but untilthat day happens.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Until, we are your favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Yes, until we finally make you love us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
I've been calling and calling.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Did you not get the black roses I sent?

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
I kidnapped your dog and still.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Hey, I said I wouldn't kill him, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I gave him back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
I gave you that clap.
You didn't say thank you.
Now the clap's been given backto me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Hot potato.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
It burns.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
That hot potato burns .

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Well, when you take it rectally, it does Yep Well
your state goes right there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, maybe that's how you're taking this podcast
Rectally, but even if you're not, please do like share,
subscribe, supposit thisparticular podcast.
Rate us five poop taters Natosuppositories.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
That might be redundant.
I don't think you'd have anyother kind of suppository.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
If you wouldn't mind, rating us five cosmic cook
chairs on the podcast app ofyour liking, ideally Apple
podcasts One.
They do have a cosmic cook chairrating system, so utilize that.
But also it's the best way forus to get seen and heard and for
us to spread this virus to morepeople, infecting them with

(01:06:15):
happiness and joy, if that'swhat we call it.
I'd also just like to say hey,thanks.
Thanks for checking us out.
We really do appreciate youlistening to us.
We hope that we brought a smileto your face.
Maybe you learned something.
That's kind of all we're hereto do, so we hope you've enjoyed
.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
We don't make money off of this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
It's something we do, what else are we going to do?
I'm not going to enjoy my life,so I might as well do this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
We watched Runaway on purpose, yeah, like multiple
times.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
And we'll keep brushing Runaway.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Until you love us.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Just love us, so we can stop.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Please send me your bones.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
I don't want any more hot dog spaghetti water.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Please not out of the coffee pot again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Oh shit, she brought out the coffee pot again, oh no,
she brought the coffee potagain.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Oh no, the stereo system's trying to cook again.
She's the worst, isn't she,folks?
Well, I'm going to fuck heranyway.
My son sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
My son sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
He really does, and that kind of sums up our show.
It's a lot like Pokemon.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
As do the Pokemon, but until they find them all
Skip.
What should they do?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
They should probably keep looking, but make sure
they've cleaned up afterthemselves To some sort of
reasonable degree.
Make sure they support theirlocal comic shops and retailers,
and from Dispatch Ajax we wouldlike to say Godspeed, fair
Wizards.
Pudding pie, pudding pie,pudding pie, one of us, one of
us Filled with vanilla puddingpower.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Please go away.