December 16, 2025 • 56 mins
We open with the shock of Carrie-Hiroyuki Tagawa’s passing and step through the moments that defined him: a scene-stealing Shang Tsung in Mortal Kombat, a gallery of elegant villains across 80s and 90s action, and a deep, steady practice in martial arts that prized control over violence. That contrast powers the story—how a performer built on breath, precision, and presence could turn wafer-thin dialogue into lines you still quote, then reappear years later with the same gravity reshaped into empathy.
We dig into Tagawa’s training in kendo and Shotokan under Masatoshi Nakayama and how that discipline informed his screen work. The conversation pulls no punches about typecasting and yellow peril tropes that lingered in Hollywood, from Big Trouble in Little China to network TV, and how Tagawa often transcended the parts he was offered. Along the way we revisit touchstones like The Perfect Weapon, Showdown in Little Tokyo, License to Kill, Rising Sun, Planet of the Apes, Tekken, and a surprisingly rich run in animation with Star Wars Rebels and Visions. Then we pivot to his quieter triumph: a measured, humane turn in The Man in the High Castle that proved his range extended well beyond menace.
The final act explores a surprising chapter—Tagawa’s late-life connection to Russia, conversion to Orthodox Christianity, and an articulated desire to serve and heal. In his own words, a true warrior carries compassion. Through that lens, the career of a “villain” reads as a masterclass in restraint, intention, and dignity, delivered over more than 150 screen credits. If you love film history, character acting, martial arts philosophy, or the craft of turning stereotype into substance, this one is for you.
If this resonated, share it with a friend, subscribe for more deep dives on film legends, and leave a review telling us your favorite Tagawa performance.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
There you go.
As outcast would say.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds.
SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
I'm being the proper approach for today.
SPEAKER_02 (00:14):
Negative.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
All right.
Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa died inthe early morning hours of
December 4th, 2025, at his homein Santa Barbara, California,
the age of 75, because of astroke.
He died surrounded by his sonKaelin and his two daughters,
Bryn and Kana, and he will bemissed.
(00:59):
If you don't know who KerryHiroyuki Tagawa was, he's
probably known in the mainstreammost as Shang Sung from the
Mortal Kombat movie adaptationfrom 1995, directed by Paul W.
S.
Anderson, one of the highlightsof that movie.
It's one of the reasons thatmovie worked.
It's one of the only reasonsthat movie worked.
(01:21):
It's not a very good movie, buthe's fucking great in it.
Also, the the actor that playedLiu Kang, who also played Bruce
Lee in Dragon the Bruce Leestory.
Robin Shu.
That role would kind of definehis career in the mainstream
because he played that, whichwas pretty iconic.
(01:42):
Went on to play him again in thegod-awful Mortal Kombat
Annihilation sequel.
Special kind of bad.
It's bad in ways that I can'teven articulate.
So bad it might come all the wayaround.
Maybe it'd be kind of good.
(02:02):
But then did reprise the role inthe 2013 television series
Mortal Kombat Legacy, whichnobody remembers happened.
Good.
Which is actually pretty good.
A good reimagining of the wholething.
Well, didn't it start out as aweb series?
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
It was a web series.
I don't think it actually madeit to TV.
I think it was mostly WebSeries, and then they collected
it.
All oh yeah.
Is that the one where JerryRyan?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Sonia played.
And Michael Jai White.
Okay, well, there was a MortalKombat TV show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
There was.
I think that did well enoughthat then it prompted, oh, we
should do something.
And then they did a TV show.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
Well, I know for a fact there was a different
Mortal Kombat TV show, but Idon't think he was involved, so
we'll move on for that.
Lots of Mortal Kombat, folks.
Lots of combatants.
Believe it or not.
And then reprised his role onceagain in Mortal Kombat 11 in
2019, which I own on the Switch.
I enjoyed that game and I beatit on easy.
(03:09):
Your Switch is mine.
Takawa leaves us all a legacy ofmore than 150 film and TV
appearances.
I'm not even including the videogames.
He's got one of the mostprolific filmographies of any
actor we've ever talked about.
(03:30):
Takawa was born in Tokyo, Japan,the son of an actress, Mariko
Hata, and a Japanese Americanwho was an army.
He was in army.
He's army.
He is army, who was during hiscareer was stationed at Fort
Bragg, Fort Polk, Fort Hood.
(03:52):
He grew up uh multilingual.
I'm sorry, his mother grew upmultilingual.
She spoke English, Japanese,Russian, Korean, and Spanish.
Damn.
Damn.
Absolutely.
Their whole family spokemultiple languages.
He was an army brat, of course,and so he grew up in all sorts
(04:16):
of places.
He had an interest in martialarts because if you're an Asian
kid that grows up in America,and especially in that era, I
guess that's what you do.
His training began with kendo,which is what they use for
lightsaber choreography in theoriginal Star Wars, in junior
(04:38):
high.
By the age of 21, Tagawa startedtraining traditional Japanese
karate at the University ofSouthern California.
He attended Duarte High School,which has no relation to the
Filipino dictator, thankfully,and then moved on to USC.
Later, he moved to Japan tostudy with the JKA, which I'm
(05:03):
pretty sure is the JapaneseKarate Association.
Yeah, the Japanese KarateAssociation.
Yes.
Under Master Nakamaya.
Master Masatoshi Nakayama.
Who was famous for bringing theart of karate to basically the
(05:24):
masses, to the Western world.
He was Japanese master ofShotokan Karate, and he is he
helped establish the JapaneseKarate Association in 1949.
I don't know that karate wouldhave been famous in America
without him.
Takawa was an apprentice of hisand was prominent in the
(05:48):
Japanese Karate Association.
He hated being a fighter.
He, by nature, hated violenceand tried to create his own
martial arts style that was lessviolent and more defensive.
What we would consider the yogicstyles of martial arts today.
(06:09):
Breathing, energy, thephilosophical stuff.
The Qigong.
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
Yep, absolutely.
At least from his words.
Because he moved around a lotwhen he was very young, he had
to live in the deep south, andhe realized pretty quickly that
being Asian in the deep southmeant learning the necessity for
martial arts.
And so he had to use it, but hedidn't like to resort to
(06:41):
violence, and he would rathertry to find ways to redirect
their anger, thus avoidingconflict.
In his own words, there are nowinners in a fight.
It's always better to resolve asituation peacefully.
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
He then attended eventually the University of
Hawaii as a part of the footballteam, not as a player, but as he
describes as a masur who wouldhelp rehabilitate the players.
Which I think is reallyinteresting.
Yeah.
He considered himself apractitioner of both martial
arts and Asian Qi healingtechniques.
(07:20):
In the 1980s, Tagawa founded ahybrid of martial arts and
healing called Chu Shin, a formreferred to as the martial
alchemy.
I'm glad he did that then andnot now, because he would be so
fucking QAnon now.
Oh boy.
unknown (07:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Takawa said that uh it it loosely translates to to
be centered inside your heartand mind.
SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
I think a lot of his approaches were completely
genuine and heartfelt andwell-meaning.
But then things get a littleweird later.
We'll get into that later.
He then decided to become anactor.
And his breakthrough role camewhen he was cast as Yunuk Chang
in The Last Emperor 1987.
(08:06):
I'm pretty sure that one bestpicture that year.
He was an undercover agent inthe Hong Kong narcotics board in
the Bond film License to Kill in1991.
He starred alongside DolphLundgren and Brandon Lee in
Showdown in Little Tokyo, wherehe played a Yakuza boss named
(08:27):
Yoshida.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Thankfully for him and his career, the 80s into the
90s was a prime time for Asianvillain actors.
SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
Oh, big time.
I do remember watching aMacGyver episode that was
supposed to be about like someweird like Chinese, I think it
was either drug trade or humantrafficking trait.
I can't remember which, um, ormaybe it was like maybe it was
uh like artifacts out of ancientChina or whatever, but it had
every Asian actor in the worldin it.
(08:57):
It was like it was like him, itwas James Hong, it was well
George Takei, it was severalother people from sh from Big
Troubles in Little China, all ofwhich were like different ethnic
groups that were all playingChinese people.
Nice, and they would do likefaux Chinese language when they
would talk to each other.
It wasn't actually Chinese, itwas just like gibberish they'd
(09:18):
make up or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
God, I know you could figure by the time
MacGyver, I mean this isn't the1920s.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Come on now.
I know by the time you getthere, you'd think like, come
on, guys, really George Decayplaying a Chinese person?
Like, come on.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Oh my.
Yeah, it's like they just haveall the Asian actors are in the
pen and they're like, uh, uh,give me one of them to Asian
actors, put them in here.
But it says we need a Filipinofor this role.
Uh they're all the same, justthrow them in there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
Yeah, throw them in there.
Yeah, there's a Mr.
Showskid about that, actually,where they do the court
appointed experts, and they'reall just like sitting in a
they're all sitting in a room.
Yeah, yeah.
His first credit as an actor isBig Trouble in Little China.
As a Wing Kong swordsman.
Uh-huh.
Just the background.
(10:05):
Yeah, but look who else is inthe background.
I mean, what a what a fuckingawesome cast to be a part of.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
What a an awesome movie to be a part of.
SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
Yeah, that's so cool.
He's been in a lot.
He was, I think, typecast a lot.
Uh, mostly because of his sortof he is sort of a gruff looking
mug.
He's got a scowl constantly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Yeah, even though, like, from all accounts, one of
the nicest guys you'd meet,absolutely.
He sounded like a realsweetheart.
Yeah.
He always got cast as villains.
And that's also part of like thetime.
I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:42):
The not so obvious yellow peril shit that they put
him in.
Unfortunately, his appearance inStar Trek The Next Generation in
Encounter and Far Point is 1million percent a yellow peril
uh stereotype.
One of the later ones I canthink of, actually, in that
sense, because that was in 1987,where he really started hitting
(11:03):
the stride.
I mean, if you want a yellowperil, his his role in the
phantom.
Oh shit, yeah.
Oh, the Billy Zane, yes.
Oh god.
Okay, look, we have discussedthis a little bit in our like
our Flash Gordon slash BuckRogers episode.
The yellow peril was a hugething in the twenties and
thirties, and the phantom wasaround that era as well.
(11:28):
If you're gonna adapt that intoa modern movie, don't bring that
baggage with you, right?
Yeah.
unknown (11:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Because the shadow did the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
It's one of the only good things Iron Man 3 did,
where it's like, alright, wehave the Mandarin, which is a
distinctly racially chargedcharacter.
Let's turn it's ear.
SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
Let's make him completely racially ambiguous by
an actor who a white actor whoplayed Gandhi.
Yeah.
I think that was intentional.
SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
I do think it was intentional.
I mean, you have to kind of youhave to know going into it to
get that deeper layer of thebit.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
I think a lot of people seeing Iron Man 3 might
not have, but and also I doappreciate that they kind of
rebooted that with Shang-Chi,which I think is pretty great.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
He also did famously Rising Sunwith Sean Connery and and Wesley
Snipes.
(12:31):
You can say what you will aboutthat.
The Phantom, of course, PearlHarbor, the terrible, the
terrible Tim Burton, Planet ofthe Apes, Memoirs of a Geisha,
and then hilariously the Tekkenmovies.
Yeah.
Mishima.
Okay, yeah, I get it.
(12:52):
You were in Mortal Kombat, sonow you're in Tekken.
Fine.
Okay, whatever.
I'm surprised you weren't inStreet Fighter of the movie as
well.
Obviously 47 Ronan.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Oddly.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah, you you get a Hawaiian sumo guy?
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
I mean, I'm struggling to think of I guess
Chun Lee.
Yeah, Chun Lee, the archetypefor exploitation of Asian women.
And then well, later you getFaye Long, who's just straight
up Bruce Lee.
But not in the movie.
Oh, he's not in the movie, no.
The the racial problems in thatmovie are too many to count, to
(13:27):
be perfectly honest.
Uh innumerable?
They are innumerable.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
You already pointed out that he was in The Phantom
as uh you know a comic book uhcome to screen.
Well, I did, yeah, but you youyou said it as well.
He was also can't forget inElectra as Master Roshi, uh,
which is also the name of Goku'ssensei in Dragon Ball.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
I own that movie on DVD somewhere, I don't even
remember that.
Oh man.
Well, does any who remembersanything about Electra?
I remember that Terrence stampis stick.
That's what I remember.
And I remember the deletedscenes, and that's about it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
I I mean I remember Terrence stamp, but I didn't I
don't remember a single event orset piece or line of dialogue.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
I remember her getting attacked by the hand in
one action sequence, and that'sall I can remember.
In fact, I remember the Iremember the deleted scenes with
Ben Affleck more than I rememberthe actual movie.
Because it was so weird andstood out.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Yeah, that's bizarre.
Well, it's it's not a highlightof his career.
I just wanted to point out, Imean, the nature of our podcast,
I I thought it it behooved us touh at least Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
That's why we need to talk about it.
Because these are the thingsthat these are the roles that we
like.
These are the roles that we wantto talk about.
Well, maybe not Electra, butwell, maybe yeah, I don't, yeah,
fuck.
I don't know.
But you know what?
The man worked.
Always working.
He always had a job.
There are very few people inHollywood who always work like
(15:07):
he did.
It's James Hong, they were bothin big trouble, but James Hong
was the lead was the leadvillain.
They appeared often together.
They had similar career paths.
But other than that, very feware as prolific as Tagawa was.
(15:28):
He did appear in Amazon Prime'sadaptation of Philip K.
Dix, The Man in the High Castle,um, which I thought he was good
in, even though the show was soflawed that it's not worth
talking about.
The first season I was kind oflike enamored with, and then
seasons two and three, I'm like,what are you doing?
Stop it, please just stophurting us all.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
I would say that's one thing about Carrie's work in
general, is that almosteverything he was in, like you
can point out like, oh, he wasgood in this.
You know, it's tough to pointout something that he didn't
wasn't in.
Those are just movies.
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
Look at his TV appearances.
It's crazy.
Truly, truly runs the gamut.
Oh, it's it's all over theplace.
Uh McGyver, the Colby's, StarTrek, Miami Vice, Hotel, would
everybody was in Hotel.
He was in an episode ofSuperboy.
True.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
Baywatch, Alien Nation, Babylon 5, Renegade.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
Mission Imposter.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Texas Ranger, Stargate, Sabrina, the Teenage
Witch.
Net Force.
What the fuck is that?
It's a rabbit hole going downlike, oh, what is this that he
was in?
SPEAKER_00 (16:38):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
I clicked on a few of those.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
I mean, Teenage Mute Ninja Turtles, Star Wars Rebels,
Lost in Space, DuckTales theReboot, Star Wars Visions.
What a prolific career.
What an amazing prolific career.
And one of those guys that youalways knew him when you saw
him, but he never felt like hewas wrong for the role or or you
(17:02):
were just typecasting.
He was just a guy that he workedin everything he did.
It just worked.
He's one of those guys that Ithink a lot of obviously I can't
speak for Asian actors at all,but one of those guys that were
like, if you were a bit actor ora character actor, like you'd
have to look up to him for thatkind of inspiration.
(17:23):
Always working, always hustling,always good in everything he
did.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Did you have a particular role that comes to
mind when you think of him, likepersonally?
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
Yeah.
Uh well, I mean, that horribleStar Trek Star Trek role was
always sticks out to me.
But yeah, it obviously we allthink about him in Mortal
Kombat, which I do think kind ofdefines his career for better or
for worse.
SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
Um especially with like the the fandom around that,
the years, decades spanninginvolvement, his involvement in
the video games and all thevoice acting.
You know, he kind of like theyhad a character, they cast him,
and then he became thatcharacter after that
forevermore.
(18:09):
Absolutely.
That is that's iconic.
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
Yeah, because I remember when they rebooted
Mortal Kombat in movie form, Iremember just being like, why
can't he play it now?
But then he did in the game,which was great.
It really felt natural.
If you're gonna prov give me uhCharles Xavier, well now it has
to be Patrick Stewart, or if yougive me Wolverine, well now it
has to be Hugh Jackman, italways has to be uh Takama in uh
(18:35):
I'm sorry, Takawa in all ofthese he made them iconic, but
he wasn't pigeonholed by them,which is I think kind of rare.
Christopher Reeve had a hardtime being anything other than
Superman.
Takawa can be Shang Song andthen all of these other
characters, and you're totallygood with it.
In fact, you you look forward toseeing him in stuff.
(18:59):
The only other one was sadly Manin the High Castle.
I thought he was so good inthat.
Because he was playing againsttype, he wasn't playing a
villain, and he wasn't playing amenacing character.
He was a pacifist type guy.
He was just a he was a he was anadministrator in the Japanese
government in the Pacific statesof America because the Japanese
(19:23):
had and uh Germany had split upthe United States after they won
World War II.
Not at all what you wouldexpect, very introspective and
very like muted.
He worked in that just as wellas he worked in any other role.
He was a very diverse actor, andI those are the ones that come
to mind.
What about you?
Do you have anyone that sticksout to you?
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
I'll have to go, I guess.
Unfortunately, you've kind ofpainted me into this box where I
the ones that always stuck outin my mind uh were his uh
traditional Asian bad guy.
I think the year of nineteen.
1991 really was my sweet spot.
And that year he was in ThePerfect Weapon and Showdown
Little Tokyo.
(20:07):
Oh hell yeah.
I love The Perfect Weapon.
It's kind of an underseen,underrated Jeff Speakman martial
arts film.
Really cool because like ithighlights Kenpo, which you
don't get in a lot of martialarts films.
Um but Tagawa, he comes in kindof a smooth-talking,
good-looking side character.
(20:27):
He gets a lick in but gets beatup in the end.
But always stuck in my head.
And that same year, he plays oneof maybe the scuzziest and most
vicious of all 80s, 90s badguys, as Funeki Yoshida.
It's kind of like this um Yakuzauh kind of like drug criminal
(20:51):
kingpin.
The stuff he does in that film,especially with some of the
women, it's brutal, extremelymisogynistic, and kind of
disturbing.
But it always stuck out becausehe like he had this evil suave.
(21:11):
In this role, it's like it's inspades, and he does stuff just
off the cuff that is horrific,but makes for a good bad guy to
pair off against Brandon Lee andDolph Lundgren.
Um it's kind of always stuck inmy mind, you know.
It's like absolutely when Ithought of him, I've seen that
movie a billion times and alwaysstuck in my head.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
So when he's that, and he in certain other roles
that he had done before, likeeven in Kickboxer 2, to a
certain extent, he does havethis like persona that he he can
put on.
That's this oily slick, justlike embodiment of evil type,
right?
Where he's just like, especiallywith his voice and the way that
(21:56):
he presents himself.
Malevolent but commanding sortof presence.
And he does that better thanalmost anyone who's ever played
a villain in Hollywood.
It's so good that you totallyunderstand why they made him
Shang Song and why, like, that'sso iconic because he has all
(22:17):
these lines that he deliversthat are kind of garbage
dialogue and just snippets ofstuff taken from the video game
that he delivers that youtotally buy.
But then in stuff like The Manin the High Castle, where he's
this empathetic family man wholoves his children with almost
the same persona, it's so subtlethat you buy both.
(22:41):
And I think that's one of theunsung things that unchenksung
things that we that we don'ttalk about when when we talk
about character actors, is thatthey're character actors because
they can play so many differentthings, they're they're so good
at the subtleties.
Because like a lead actor is alead actor for different
(23:03):
reasons, and a character actorputs in the work.
Takawa was on that level.
I mean, in tw in the movieTwins, he was credited as
Oriental Man.
I mean, yeah, come on, guys.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Really?
There's an Edward James Almostfilm where he was El Japo.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
Right, right, exactly.
When it comes to Takawa, he wasa phenomenal character actor who
never really got his I thinkrecognition, but always worked.
His later stuff was weird whenhe converted religiously and
then moved to Russia.
That that got weird.
Do tell.
(23:43):
There's not a lot of informationabout it.
I mean, he just kind of like hefor some reason converted to
essentially Russian Orthodox,they call it Eastern Orthodox
religion.
It's because he he had likestarred in a Russian TV show
called was it called Marry Me?
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Where uh I'm very confused as to why all of that
happened, but I was looking intothe journey to orthodoxy to find
out more.
My malware stopped me from goingthere.
Okay, that's about right.
He went into the RussianOrthodox Church, took the name
(24:22):
of the great martyr and healer,Saint Pentelamon.
Penteliamon?
Never knew how to say that.
He learned Russian, acquiredRussian citizenship, and divided
his later years betweenCalifornia and Moscow, where he
worked with children and servedas a quiet cultural bridge
between the East and West.
His baptismal name was nocoincidence.
(24:48):
And he saw the fulfillment ofhis life's calling to heal
rather than to harm.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
Okay, so wait, what?
Okay, so I'm looking at a blogthat I translated from Russian.
It has a credited writer, thoughit supposedly is him.
I'm a little dubious, but Iokay, this is what I found so
far.
There's a connection with Russiain my family's history.
(25:15):
My father learned Russian whilehe was in the United States of
America.
My uncle, who was a famoussinger in the 1960s, gave
concerts in Moscow every year.
He also spoke and sang songs inRussian, and therefore he's a
part of my history, which isconnected with Russia.
I was impressed with the depthof Russian people's hearts.
This is the first thing thatcaught my eye.
Your soul, heart, and mind aredrastically different from the
(25:37):
American way of thinking, andare absolutely different from
the European way of thinking.
You come from some very deepenergy, which is completely
palpable.
I grew up in America, and theJapanese part of my soul helped
me survive, though I was farfrom my motherland.
When I came to Russia, I thoughtthat my Japanese origin was very
close to the heart and the soulof the Russian people, which is
(26:00):
weird because they used to fightwars all the time.
Most importantly, I noticed thatthe personalities and souls of
these two peoples were indeedsimilar.
You and us are not soldiers butwarriors.
A little later today I willconvert to the Orthodox faith
and begin my religious path.
On this path, my conversion toChristianity will become
(26:20):
complete.
Okay.
The next paragraph is titled ISaw Hell.
My father did military servicefor the United States of America
in Hawaii.
My mother had a veryconservative Japanese outlook
and lifestyle.
Her energy and personality werevery samurai-like.
She held Imperial Japanese andmilitary views.
(26:42):
Therefore, there are twocountries in my family: the Army
of the United States of Americaand the Japanese Navy.
The gap was huge.
My goal was to unite what wasbest from both on was best from
both sides of that gap.
Yeah, this has to be him.
I grew up in Louisiana, NorthCarolina, and Texas, which are
(27:03):
the worst parts of America.
Can't argue with that.
I can say that I grew up in hellwith full responsibility and
seriousness.
Therefore, I speak about a pathand hell.
It is not theoretical for me,but it is it was my life in
America.
It was my experience.
I was saved by a read, whichmight which was my mother's
personality.
(27:24):
She always encouraged me to beproud of being Japanese, to
never give up, and to always bea winner.
It was too much for asix-year-old.
Oh Jesus.
Yeah, this has this has to behim.
So basically, he becamedisenchanted with all of his
(27:46):
upbringing, with all of his uhbackgrounds, his his countries
of of residency, which I could Icould understand.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
I mean, I guess, but that that partner left and why
Russian Orthodox I don't know.
They still have some questionsthere.
I don't really see how it fitsas well into uh an energy an
Eastern energy chi foundation ofof his other parts of his life.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
Um yeah, I yeah, that is confusing.
Let's see, it says I compensatedfor the lack of positive and
honest emotions by connectingwith my success and nurturing
them inside.
Everything that I was unable toconnect with in both deep
cultural and American culture,deep culture and American
(28:40):
culture, I now connect with you.
Yeah, he's talking about Russia.
I feel the love and respect ofthe Russian people for the
Japanese, our principles, honor,and dignity.
When I see Russian martial artsfighters, I ultimately
understand them and theyunderstand me.
It's because I have thisconnection with Mother Russia,
not just Russia, but MotherRussia, I'm quoting him.
(29:02):
I would like to be a part ofyou.
I would like to share my loveand respect as an actor, and I
can be a teacher.
Overall, I'm already a grown-up.
Therefore, having finished mysearch in Christianity, starting
with my experience inChristianity in America, when I
began my path in the Orthodoxfaith, I would like to declare
that I'm going to take upRussian citizenship.
(29:24):
Well, I'll say this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yeah.
But as opposed to some otheractor, martial arts actors who
have gone down a similar path,he at least seemed to like
derive it from a place deepinside him and his family and
his own path, and maybe doingsomething just to help people
rather than exploit itpolitically.
SPEAKER_00 (29:50):
I think he was disillusioned with a lot of
stuff, and he found some sort ofI guess purpose and meaning.
SPEAKER_01 (29:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
Yeah.
And it's not, I mean, I havesome questions, but uh, you
know, um and and you can saywhat you want about where he
chooses to to explore that.
Maybe Russia has a a strong tiewith Japan now or with the East
in general, even though theyhave a long history of being
rivals.
But from the outside, like weare looking at this, I think a
(30:20):
lot of people from the outsidewould also have the same
questions about people who likedevote themselves to being
American, considering the stuffthat we do, you know,
considering our place in in theg in geopolitics, or Israel, or
any anybody else that has somesort of or the UK or anybody
that has some sort ofproblematic issues with their
international relations and andactions in the world.
(30:43):
So I mean I I guess he foundsomething that meant something
to him.
So I guess good for you, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
As opposed to other people that we know are involved
in a similar situation on thesurface.
I didn't find out about thistill after his death, like
looking into him.
You know, it's not something heseemed to promote or was trying
to exploit.
It's something that came fromhis heart, it seems.
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
Last stage of his life.
That was I guess we should uhend it with this last quote from
his blog post here about hisconversion.
He says, the meaning of the wordsamurai is to serve.
In order to serve the good andlove, one should have love and
soul inside.
A true warrior should have loveand compassion in his soul in
(31:34):
order to practice martial arts.
I, in particular, train fightersand could do this.
Interesting.
It's not for us to judge.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
No, and I'm glad we could be a part of the chunks we
were.
Because again, he seems like agood guy.
He was a fun, enjoyable, andalways appreciated, even
underappreciated character actorwho would pop up in a lot of
things that we love and enjoy.
And he will be missed.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
We will be missed.
And you know what?
Uh, for most of his life, heliked the defensive side of
martial arts, the the sort oflike ultimate Shaolin guy, which
is ironic considering he wasCheng Sung, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
You know.
Well, I mean, James Earl Jonesisn't Darth Vader, you know, so
it's that's very true.
So rest in peace.
Treasure, peace goes as if theywere your masked.
(53:52):
And so you said something Ididn't.
I mean, I didn't I knew that hedied, but I I didn't know
anything about the Russianorthodox or anything.
(54:24):
I think it's maybe not English.
(54:50):
I mean, there's a there's alittle bit like something
happened and like it.
I didn't I didn't think it wasnecessary to bring that up as a
possibility, you know, for Imean I guess you know, Steven
(55:19):
calls a pizza kit.
SPEAKER_02 (55:42):
Yeah.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (55:54):
I I do not know.
Um it's it's almost two o'clock.
We should get going.
SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
Uh talk about uh Mandela Christmas.
That's what we're doing nextweek.
I can find some other Mandela.
(56:32):
I mean I mean you're gonna bringTake me on your path.
SPEAKER_02 (56:44):
Okay, so that's good.
Talking about
There you go.
As outcast would say.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds.
SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
I'm being the proper approach for today.
SPEAKER_02 (00:14):
Negative.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
All right.
Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa died inthe early morning hours of
December 4th, 2025, at his homein Santa Barbara, California,
the age of 75, because of astroke.
He died surrounded by his sonKaelin and his two daughters,
Bryn and Kana, and he will bemissed.
(00:59):
If you don't know who KerryHiroyuki Tagawa was, he's
probably known in the mainstreammost as Shang Sung from the
Mortal Kombat movie adaptationfrom 1995, directed by Paul W.
S.
Anderson, one of the highlightsof that movie.
It's one of the reasons thatmovie worked.
It's one of the only reasonsthat movie worked.
(01:21):
It's not a very good movie, buthe's fucking great in it.
Also, the the actor that playedLiu Kang, who also played Bruce
Lee in Dragon the Bruce Leestory.
Robin Shu.
That role would kind of definehis career in the mainstream
because he played that, whichwas pretty iconic.
(01:42):
Went on to play him again in thegod-awful Mortal Kombat
Annihilation sequel.
Special kind of bad.
It's bad in ways that I can'teven articulate.
So bad it might come all the wayaround.
Maybe it'd be kind of good.
(02:02):
But then did reprise the role inthe 2013 television series
Mortal Kombat Legacy, whichnobody remembers happened.
Good.
Which is actually pretty good.
A good reimagining of the wholething.
Well, didn't it start out as aweb series?
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
It was a web series.
I don't think it actually madeit to TV.
I think it was mostly WebSeries, and then they collected
it.
All oh yeah.
Is that the one where JerryRyan?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Sonia played.
And Michael Jai White.
Okay, well, there was a MortalKombat TV show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
There was.
I think that did well enoughthat then it prompted, oh, we
should do something.
And then they did a TV show.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
Well, I know for a fact there was a different
Mortal Kombat TV show, but Idon't think he was involved, so
we'll move on for that.
Lots of Mortal Kombat, folks.
Lots of combatants.
Believe it or not.
And then reprised his role onceagain in Mortal Kombat 11 in
2019, which I own on the Switch.
I enjoyed that game and I beatit on easy.
(03:09):
Your Switch is mine.
Takawa leaves us all a legacy ofmore than 150 film and TV
appearances.
I'm not even including the videogames.
He's got one of the mostprolific filmographies of any
actor we've ever talked about.
(03:30):
Takawa was born in Tokyo, Japan,the son of an actress, Mariko
Hata, and a Japanese Americanwho was an army.
He was in army.
He's army.
He is army, who was during hiscareer was stationed at Fort
Bragg, Fort Polk, Fort Hood.
(03:52):
He grew up uh multilingual.
I'm sorry, his mother grew upmultilingual.
She spoke English, Japanese,Russian, Korean, and Spanish.
Damn.
Damn.
Absolutely.
Their whole family spokemultiple languages.
He was an army brat, of course,and so he grew up in all sorts
(04:16):
of places.
He had an interest in martialarts because if you're an Asian
kid that grows up in America,and especially in that era, I
guess that's what you do.
His training began with kendo,which is what they use for
lightsaber choreography in theoriginal Star Wars, in junior
(04:38):
high.
By the age of 21, Tagawa startedtraining traditional Japanese
karate at the University ofSouthern California.
He attended Duarte High School,which has no relation to the
Filipino dictator, thankfully,and then moved on to USC.
Later, he moved to Japan tostudy with the JKA, which I'm
(05:03):
pretty sure is the JapaneseKarate Association.
Yeah, the Japanese KarateAssociation.
Yes.
Under Master Nakamaya.
Master Masatoshi Nakayama.
Who was famous for bringing theart of karate to basically the
(05:24):
masses, to the Western world.
He was Japanese master ofShotokan Karate, and he is he
helped establish the JapaneseKarate Association in 1949.
I don't know that karate wouldhave been famous in America
without him.
Takawa was an apprentice of hisand was prominent in the
(05:48):
Japanese Karate Association.
He hated being a fighter.
He, by nature, hated violenceand tried to create his own
martial arts style that was lessviolent and more defensive.
What we would consider the yogicstyles of martial arts today.
(06:09):
Breathing, energy, thephilosophical stuff.
The Qigong.
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
Yep, absolutely.
At least from his words.
Because he moved around a lotwhen he was very young, he had
to live in the deep south, andhe realized pretty quickly that
being Asian in the deep southmeant learning the necessity for
martial arts.
And so he had to use it, but hedidn't like to resort to
(06:41):
violence, and he would rathertry to find ways to redirect
their anger, thus avoidingconflict.
In his own words, there are nowinners in a fight.
It's always better to resolve asituation peacefully.
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
He then attended eventually the University of
Hawaii as a part of the footballteam, not as a player, but as he
describes as a masur who wouldhelp rehabilitate the players.
Which I think is reallyinteresting.
Yeah.
He considered himself apractitioner of both martial
arts and Asian Qi healingtechniques.
(07:20):
In the 1980s, Tagawa founded ahybrid of martial arts and
healing called Chu Shin, a formreferred to as the martial
alchemy.
I'm glad he did that then andnot now, because he would be so
fucking QAnon now.
Oh boy.
unknown (07:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Takawa said that uh it it loosely translates to to
be centered inside your heartand mind.
SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
I think a lot of his approaches were completely
genuine and heartfelt andwell-meaning.
But then things get a littleweird later.
We'll get into that later.
He then decided to become anactor.
And his breakthrough role camewhen he was cast as Yunuk Chang
in The Last Emperor 1987.
(08:06):
I'm pretty sure that one bestpicture that year.
He was an undercover agent inthe Hong Kong narcotics board in
the Bond film License to Kill in1991.
He starred alongside DolphLundgren and Brandon Lee in
Showdown in Little Tokyo, wherehe played a Yakuza boss named
(08:27):
Yoshida.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Thankfully for him and his career, the 80s into the
90s was a prime time for Asianvillain actors.
SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
Oh, big time.
I do remember watching aMacGyver episode that was
supposed to be about like someweird like Chinese, I think it
was either drug trade or humantrafficking trait.
I can't remember which, um, ormaybe it was like maybe it was
uh like artifacts out of ancientChina or whatever, but it had
every Asian actor in the worldin it.
(08:57):
It was like it was like him, itwas James Hong, it was well
George Takei, it was severalother people from sh from Big
Troubles in Little China, all ofwhich were like different ethnic
groups that were all playingChinese people.
Nice, and they would do likefaux Chinese language when they
would talk to each other.
It wasn't actually Chinese, itwas just like gibberish they'd
(09:18):
make up or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
God, I know you could figure by the time
MacGyver, I mean this isn't the1920s.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Come on now.
I know by the time you getthere, you'd think like, come
on, guys, really George Decayplaying a Chinese person?
Like, come on.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Oh my.
Yeah, it's like they just haveall the Asian actors are in the
pen and they're like, uh, uh,give me one of them to Asian
actors, put them in here.
But it says we need a Filipinofor this role.
Uh they're all the same, justthrow them in there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
Yeah, throw them in there.
Yeah, there's a Mr.
Showskid about that, actually,where they do the court
appointed experts, and they'reall just like sitting in a
they're all sitting in a room.
Yeah, yeah.
His first credit as an actor isBig Trouble in Little China.
As a Wing Kong swordsman.
Uh-huh.
Just the background.
(10:05):
Yeah, but look who else is inthe background.
I mean, what a what a fuckingawesome cast to be a part of.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
What a an awesome movie to be a part of.
SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
Yeah, that's so cool.
He's been in a lot.
He was, I think, typecast a lot.
Uh, mostly because of his sortof he is sort of a gruff looking
mug.
He's got a scowl constantly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Yeah, even though, like, from all accounts, one of
the nicest guys you'd meet,absolutely.
He sounded like a realsweetheart.
Yeah.
He always got cast as villains.
And that's also part of like thetime.
I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:42):
The not so obvious yellow peril shit that they put
him in.
Unfortunately, his appearance inStar Trek The Next Generation in
Encounter and Far Point is 1million percent a yellow peril
uh stereotype.
One of the later ones I canthink of, actually, in that
sense, because that was in 1987,where he really started hitting
(11:03):
the stride.
I mean, if you want a yellowperil, his his role in the
phantom.
Oh shit, yeah.
Oh, the Billy Zane, yes.
Oh god.
Okay, look, we have discussedthis a little bit in our like
our Flash Gordon slash BuckRogers episode.
The yellow peril was a hugething in the twenties and
thirties, and the phantom wasaround that era as well.
(11:28):
If you're gonna adapt that intoa modern movie, don't bring that
baggage with you, right?
Yeah.
unknown (11:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Because the shadow did the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
It's one of the only good things Iron Man 3 did,
where it's like, alright, wehave the Mandarin, which is a
distinctly racially chargedcharacter.
Let's turn it's ear.
SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
Let's make him completely racially ambiguous by
an actor who a white actor whoplayed Gandhi.
Yeah.
I think that was intentional.
SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
I do think it was intentional.
I mean, you have to kind of youhave to know going into it to
get that deeper layer of thebit.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
I think a lot of people seeing Iron Man 3 might
not have, but and also I doappreciate that they kind of
rebooted that with Shang-Chi,which I think is pretty great.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
He also did famously Rising Sunwith Sean Connery and and Wesley
Snipes.
(12:31):
You can say what you will aboutthat.
The Phantom, of course, PearlHarbor, the terrible, the
terrible Tim Burton, Planet ofthe Apes, Memoirs of a Geisha,
and then hilariously the Tekkenmovies.
Yeah.
Mishima.
Okay, yeah, I get it.
(12:52):
You were in Mortal Kombat, sonow you're in Tekken.
Fine.
Okay, whatever.
I'm surprised you weren't inStreet Fighter of the movie as
well.
Obviously 47 Ronan.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Oddly.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah, you you get a Hawaiian sumo guy?
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
I mean, I'm struggling to think of I guess
Chun Lee.
Yeah, Chun Lee, the archetypefor exploitation of Asian women.
And then well, later you getFaye Long, who's just straight
up Bruce Lee.
But not in the movie.
Oh, he's not in the movie, no.
The the racial problems in thatmovie are too many to count, to
(13:27):
be perfectly honest.
Uh innumerable?
They are innumerable.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
You already pointed out that he was in The Phantom
as uh you know a comic book uhcome to screen.
Well, I did, yeah, but you youyou said it as well.
He was also can't forget inElectra as Master Roshi, uh,
which is also the name of Goku'ssensei in Dragon Ball.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
I own that movie on DVD somewhere, I don't even
remember that.
Oh man.
Well, does any who remembersanything about Electra?
I remember that Terrence stampis stick.
That's what I remember.
And I remember the deletedscenes, and that's about it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
I I mean I remember Terrence stamp, but I didn't I
don't remember a single event orset piece or line of dialogue.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
I remember her getting attacked by the hand in
one action sequence, and that'sall I can remember.
In fact, I remember the Iremember the deleted scenes with
Ben Affleck more than I rememberthe actual movie.
Because it was so weird andstood out.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Yeah, that's bizarre.
Well, it's it's not a highlightof his career.
I just wanted to point out, Imean, the nature of our podcast,
I I thought it it behooved us touh at least Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
That's why we need to talk about it.
Because these are the thingsthat these are the roles that we
like.
These are the roles that we wantto talk about.
Well, maybe not Electra, butwell, maybe yeah, I don't, yeah,
fuck.
I don't know.
But you know what?
The man worked.
Always working.
He always had a job.
There are very few people inHollywood who always work like
(15:07):
he did.
It's James Hong, they were bothin big trouble, but James Hong
was the lead was the leadvillain.
They appeared often together.
They had similar career paths.
But other than that, very feware as prolific as Tagawa was.
(15:28):
He did appear in Amazon Prime'sadaptation of Philip K.
Dix, The Man in the High Castle,um, which I thought he was good
in, even though the show was soflawed that it's not worth
talking about.
The first season I was kind oflike enamored with, and then
seasons two and three, I'm like,what are you doing?
Stop it, please just stophurting us all.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
I would say that's one thing about Carrie's work in
general, is that almosteverything he was in, like you
can point out like, oh, he wasgood in this.
You know, it's tough to pointout something that he didn't
wasn't in.
Those are just movies.
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
Look at his TV appearances.
It's crazy.
Truly, truly runs the gamut.
Oh, it's it's all over theplace.
Uh McGyver, the Colby's, StarTrek, Miami Vice, Hotel, would
everybody was in Hotel.
He was in an episode ofSuperboy.
True.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
Baywatch, Alien Nation, Babylon 5, Renegade.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
Mission Imposter.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Texas Ranger, Stargate, Sabrina, the Teenage
Witch.
Net Force.
What the fuck is that?
It's a rabbit hole going downlike, oh, what is this that he
was in?
SPEAKER_00 (16:38):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
I clicked on a few of those.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
I mean, Teenage Mute Ninja Turtles, Star Wars Rebels,
Lost in Space, DuckTales theReboot, Star Wars Visions.
What a prolific career.
What an amazing prolific career.
And one of those guys that youalways knew him when you saw
him, but he never felt like hewas wrong for the role or or you
(17:02):
were just typecasting.
He was just a guy that he workedin everything he did.
It just worked.
He's one of those guys that Ithink a lot of obviously I can't
speak for Asian actors at all,but one of those guys that were
like, if you were a bit actor ora character actor, like you'd
have to look up to him for thatkind of inspiration.
(17:23):
Always working, always hustling,always good in everything he
did.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Did you have a particular role that comes to
mind when you think of him, likepersonally?
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
Yeah.
Uh well, I mean, that horribleStar Trek Star Trek role was
always sticks out to me.
But yeah, it obviously we allthink about him in Mortal
Kombat, which I do think kind ofdefines his career for better or
for worse.
SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
Um especially with like the the fandom around that,
the years, decades spanninginvolvement, his involvement in
the video games and all thevoice acting.
You know, he kind of like theyhad a character, they cast him,
and then he became thatcharacter after that
forevermore.
(18:09):
Absolutely.
That is that's iconic.
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
Yeah, because I remember when they rebooted
Mortal Kombat in movie form, Iremember just being like, why
can't he play it now?
But then he did in the game,which was great.
It really felt natural.
If you're gonna prov give me uhCharles Xavier, well now it has
to be Patrick Stewart, or if yougive me Wolverine, well now it
has to be Hugh Jackman, italways has to be uh Takama in uh
(18:35):
I'm sorry, Takawa in all ofthese he made them iconic, but
he wasn't pigeonholed by them,which is I think kind of rare.
Christopher Reeve had a hardtime being anything other than
Superman.
Takawa can be Shang Song andthen all of these other
characters, and you're totallygood with it.
In fact, you you look forward toseeing him in stuff.
(18:59):
The only other one was sadly Manin the High Castle.
I thought he was so good inthat.
Because he was playing againsttype, he wasn't playing a
villain, and he wasn't playing amenacing character.
He was a pacifist type guy.
He was just a he was a he was anadministrator in the Japanese
government in the Pacific statesof America because the Japanese
(19:23):
had and uh Germany had split upthe United States after they won
World War II.
Not at all what you wouldexpect, very introspective and
very like muted.
He worked in that just as wellas he worked in any other role.
He was a very diverse actor, andI those are the ones that come
to mind.
What about you?
Do you have anyone that sticksout to you?
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
I'll have to go, I guess.
Unfortunately, you've kind ofpainted me into this box where I
the ones that always stuck outin my mind uh were his uh
traditional Asian bad guy.
I think the year of nineteen.
1991 really was my sweet spot.
And that year he was in ThePerfect Weapon and Showdown
Little Tokyo.
(20:07):
Oh hell yeah.
I love The Perfect Weapon.
It's kind of an underseen,underrated Jeff Speakman martial
arts film.
Really cool because like ithighlights Kenpo, which you
don't get in a lot of martialarts films.
Um but Tagawa, he comes in kindof a smooth-talking,
good-looking side character.
(20:27):
He gets a lick in but gets beatup in the end.
But always stuck in my head.
And that same year, he plays oneof maybe the scuzziest and most
vicious of all 80s, 90s badguys, as Funeki Yoshida.
It's kind of like this um Yakuzauh kind of like drug criminal
(20:51):
kingpin.
The stuff he does in that film,especially with some of the
women, it's brutal, extremelymisogynistic, and kind of
disturbing.
But it always stuck out becausehe like he had this evil suave.
(21:11):
In this role, it's like it's inspades, and he does stuff just
off the cuff that is horrific,but makes for a good bad guy to
pair off against Brandon Lee andDolph Lundgren.
Um it's kind of always stuck inmy mind, you know.
It's like absolutely when Ithought of him, I've seen that
movie a billion times and alwaysstuck in my head.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
So when he's that, and he in certain other roles
that he had done before, likeeven in Kickboxer 2, to a
certain extent, he does havethis like persona that he he can
put on.
That's this oily slick, justlike embodiment of evil type,
right?
Where he's just like, especiallywith his voice and the way that
(21:56):
he presents himself.
Malevolent but commanding sortof presence.
And he does that better thanalmost anyone who's ever played
a villain in Hollywood.
It's so good that you totallyunderstand why they made him
Shang Song and why, like, that'sso iconic because he has all
(22:17):
these lines that he deliversthat are kind of garbage
dialogue and just snippets ofstuff taken from the video game
that he delivers that youtotally buy.
But then in stuff like The Manin the High Castle, where he's
this empathetic family man wholoves his children with almost
the same persona, it's so subtlethat you buy both.
(22:41):
And I think that's one of theunsung things that unchenksung
things that we that we don'ttalk about when when we talk
about character actors, is thatthey're character actors because
they can play so many differentthings, they're they're so good
at the subtleties.
Because like a lead actor is alead actor for different
(23:03):
reasons, and a character actorputs in the work.
Takawa was on that level.
I mean, in tw in the movieTwins, he was credited as
Oriental Man.
I mean, yeah, come on, guys.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Really?
There's an Edward James Almostfilm where he was El Japo.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
Right, right, exactly.
When it comes to Takawa, he wasa phenomenal character actor who
never really got his I thinkrecognition, but always worked.
His later stuff was weird whenhe converted religiously and
then moved to Russia.
That that got weird.
Do tell.
(23:43):
There's not a lot of informationabout it.
I mean, he just kind of like hefor some reason converted to
essentially Russian Orthodox,they call it Eastern Orthodox
religion.
It's because he he had likestarred in a Russian TV show
called was it called Marry Me?
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Where uh I'm very confused as to why all of that
happened, but I was looking intothe journey to orthodoxy to find
out more.
My malware stopped me from goingthere.
Okay, that's about right.
He went into the RussianOrthodox Church, took the name
(24:22):
of the great martyr and healer,Saint Pentelamon.
Penteliamon?
Never knew how to say that.
He learned Russian, acquiredRussian citizenship, and divided
his later years betweenCalifornia and Moscow, where he
worked with children and servedas a quiet cultural bridge
between the East and West.
His baptismal name was nocoincidence.
(24:48):
And he saw the fulfillment ofhis life's calling to heal
rather than to harm.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
Okay, so wait, what?
Okay, so I'm looking at a blogthat I translated from Russian.
It has a credited writer, thoughit supposedly is him.
I'm a little dubious, but Iokay, this is what I found so
far.
There's a connection with Russiain my family's history.
(25:15):
My father learned Russian whilehe was in the United States of
America.
My uncle, who was a famoussinger in the 1960s, gave
concerts in Moscow every year.
He also spoke and sang songs inRussian, and therefore he's a
part of my history, which isconnected with Russia.
I was impressed with the depthof Russian people's hearts.
This is the first thing thatcaught my eye.
Your soul, heart, and mind aredrastically different from the
(25:37):
American way of thinking, andare absolutely different from
the European way of thinking.
You come from some very deepenergy, which is completely
palpable.
I grew up in America, and theJapanese part of my soul helped
me survive, though I was farfrom my motherland.
When I came to Russia, I thoughtthat my Japanese origin was very
close to the heart and the soulof the Russian people, which is
(26:00):
weird because they used to fightwars all the time.
Most importantly, I noticed thatthe personalities and souls of
these two peoples were indeedsimilar.
You and us are not soldiers butwarriors.
A little later today I willconvert to the Orthodox faith
and begin my religious path.
On this path, my conversion toChristianity will become
(26:20):
complete.
Okay.
The next paragraph is titled ISaw Hell.
My father did military servicefor the United States of America
in Hawaii.
My mother had a veryconservative Japanese outlook
and lifestyle.
Her energy and personality werevery samurai-like.
She held Imperial Japanese andmilitary views.
(26:42):
Therefore, there are twocountries in my family: the Army
of the United States of Americaand the Japanese Navy.
The gap was huge.
My goal was to unite what wasbest from both on was best from
both sides of that gap.
Yeah, this has to be him.
I grew up in Louisiana, NorthCarolina, and Texas, which are
(27:03):
the worst parts of America.
Can't argue with that.
I can say that I grew up in hellwith full responsibility and
seriousness.
Therefore, I speak about a pathand hell.
It is not theoretical for me,but it is it was my life in
America.
It was my experience.
I was saved by a read, whichmight which was my mother's
personality.
(27:24):
She always encouraged me to beproud of being Japanese, to
never give up, and to always bea winner.
It was too much for asix-year-old.
Oh Jesus.
Yeah, this has this has to behim.
So basically, he becamedisenchanted with all of his
(27:46):
upbringing, with all of his uhbackgrounds, his his countries
of of residency, which I could Icould understand.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
I mean, I guess, but that that partner left and why
Russian Orthodox I don't know.
They still have some questionsthere.
I don't really see how it fitsas well into uh an energy an
Eastern energy chi foundation ofof his other parts of his life.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
Um yeah, I yeah, that is confusing.
Let's see, it says I compensatedfor the lack of positive and
honest emotions by connectingwith my success and nurturing
them inside.
Everything that I was unable toconnect with in both deep
cultural and American culture,deep culture and American
(28:40):
culture, I now connect with you.
Yeah, he's talking about Russia.
I feel the love and respect ofthe Russian people for the
Japanese, our principles, honor,and dignity.
When I see Russian martial artsfighters, I ultimately
understand them and theyunderstand me.
It's because I have thisconnection with Mother Russia,
not just Russia, but MotherRussia, I'm quoting him.
(29:02):
I would like to be a part ofyou.
I would like to share my loveand respect as an actor, and I
can be a teacher.
Overall, I'm already a grown-up.
Therefore, having finished mysearch in Christianity, starting
with my experience inChristianity in America, when I
began my path in the Orthodoxfaith, I would like to declare
that I'm going to take upRussian citizenship.
(29:24):
Well, I'll say this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yeah.
But as opposed to some otheractor, martial arts actors who
have gone down a similar path,he at least seemed to like
derive it from a place deepinside him and his family and
his own path, and maybe doingsomething just to help people
rather than exploit itpolitically.
SPEAKER_00 (29:50):
I think he was disillusioned with a lot of
stuff, and he found some sort ofI guess purpose and meaning.
SPEAKER_01 (29:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
Yeah.
And it's not, I mean, I havesome questions, but uh, you
know, um and and you can saywhat you want about where he
chooses to to explore that.
Maybe Russia has a a strong tiewith Japan now or with the East
in general, even though theyhave a long history of being
rivals.
But from the outside, like weare looking at this, I think a
(30:20):
lot of people from the outsidewould also have the same
questions about people who likedevote themselves to being
American, considering the stuffthat we do, you know,
considering our place in in theg in geopolitics, or Israel, or
any anybody else that has somesort of or the UK or anybody
that has some sort ofproblematic issues with their
international relations and andactions in the world.
(30:43):
So I mean I I guess he foundsomething that meant something
to him.
So I guess good for you, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
As opposed to other people that we know are involved
in a similar situation on thesurface.
I didn't find out about thistill after his death, like
looking into him.
You know, it's not something heseemed to promote or was trying
to exploit.
It's something that came fromhis heart, it seems.
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
Last stage of his life.
That was I guess we should uhend it with this last quote from
his blog post here about hisconversion.
He says, the meaning of the wordsamurai is to serve.
In order to serve the good andlove, one should have love and
soul inside.
A true warrior should have loveand compassion in his soul in
(31:34):
order to practice martial arts.
I, in particular, train fightersand could do this.
Interesting.
It's not for us to judge.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
No, and I'm glad we could be a part of the chunks we
were.
Because again, he seems like agood guy.
He was a fun, enjoyable, andalways appreciated, even
underappreciated character actorwho would pop up in a lot of
things that we love and enjoy.
And he will be missed.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
We will be missed.
And you know what?
Uh, for most of his life, heliked the defensive side of
martial arts, the the sort oflike ultimate Shaolin guy, which
is ironic considering he wasCheng Sung, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
You know.
Well, I mean, James Earl Jonesisn't Darth Vader, you know, so
it's that's very true.
So rest in peace.
Treasure, peace goes as if theywere your masked.
(53:52):
And so you said something Ididn't.
I mean, I didn't I knew that hedied, but I I didn't know
anything about the Russianorthodox or anything.
(54:24):
I think it's maybe not English.
(54:50):
I mean, there's a there's alittle bit like something
happened and like it.
I didn't I didn't think it wasnecessary to bring that up as a
possibility, you know, for Imean I guess you know, Steven
(55:19):
calls a pizza kit.
SPEAKER_02 (55:42):
Yeah.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (55:54):
I I do not know.
Um it's it's almost two o'clock.
We should get going.
SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
Uh talk about uh Mandela Christmas.
That's what we're doing nextweek.
I can find some other Mandela.
(56:32):
I mean I mean you're gonna bringTake me on your path.
SPEAKER_02 (56:44):
Okay, so that's good.
Talking about
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.