July 23, 2025 • 43 mins
We explore the liberating experience of being a woman in your 40s, discussing everything from the freedom of singlehood to late-diagnosed ADHD and challenging societal expectations.
• Finding freedom from caring about others' opinions after turning 40
• Choosing a child-free life and being confident in that decision
• Discovering and managing ADHD as an adult and being gentler with yourself
• Enjoying single life and learning to do things independently
• Challenging traditional expectations about marriage and relationships
• The benefits of singlehood for women's happiness and life satisfaction
• Learning to present your authentic self in relationships
• Finding clarity about career and life goals later in life
Follow me on Instagram at diva_tonight and find my guest Jen Kay at XJPotion on Twitter. Tune into Jen's weekly radio show on 92.9 the Grand and 88.5 the Lake on Sunday nights from 8 to midnight.
Thanks for listening to Diva Tonight! Please send a review of the show on https://divatonight.buzzsprout.com
- I want to thank my Podcast Editor Sean McAndrew!
- Thanks to Altered by Mom for sponsoring the music for the show
- Thanks to Colin Campbell for sponsoring the show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Carlene and this is Diva Tonight, a podcast
about women in their 40s and afemale perspective on this stage
of life.
We'll be talking about datingand why single life might be for
you.
I have in front of me mycolleague like we went to humber
together jennifer coalition.
(00:25):
She is creative writer,producer, office manager and
announcer for 92.9, the grandright yeah, hats there right.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, we have a cluster of stations, so it's not
just that one, but yeah, oh,what are the other stations?
I know there's a few, rightyeah, we got kx 94.7, our
country station, uh 88.5, thelake, well, oshawa.
We have uh 94.9, the rock, kx96 and ckdo and we're actually
just like oh, we have a stationin vancouver, now we're
launching some in peterborough,so there's a lot going on wow,
(00:59):
lots going.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, that's keeping you busy for sure.
I don't know if you know this,but our old classmate, erin, she
said that she didn't.
She listens to 92.9 the grandand I told her I'm like that's
where Jen works.
She's like, oh, I had no idea.
I'm like, yeah right, you'vebeen there like quite a few
years now.
Is it over like a decade?
Like how long?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
yeah, it'll be.
I think 12 years this year thatI'm at this company Wow and the
brand launched in 2016.
So I've been with them sinceday one.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Wow, that's amazing.
How does that feel, though?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like to be to feel old.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That's how I feel old too.
Like talking to you now,because it's just like when we
think about Humber and like ourmemories there and like how much
time we spent in the studio,you know.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And just to think that that was you know 13 years
ago is just mind boggling to me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I know I was just like wow, where did the time go?
Like every time I think aboutit, I can't believe.
Like you know, we're in our 40s, Right?
So how?
What did you do for your 40thbirthday?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
A whole bunch of stuff.
I think I went on two trips inthe same month.
I took a trip to Vegas with mymom because she had never been
and I was like, hey, let's goparty up in Vegas.
I went on an emo cruise so it'slike a music festival cruise,
essentially with my friend CJ,which was super fun, and I had a
big birthday party at my house.
That's what I did for my 40th.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Nice, how many people showed up at your house party.
I know your house Jen throws agood house party.
I'm going to say that Iremember you used to.
I mean.
The one thing I did like,though, was like I mean, I was
annoyed at the Leafs alwaysplaying in the background.
I'm like, oh my gosh, that islike nothing has changed right,
(02:48):
I mean the Leafs are like we'reisn't tonight.
There's a game on tonight,right, but getting back to your
house parties, so yeah, Jenthrew a good house party.
Like there's always music.
If she's not playing guitar,some of her friends are and I'm
like, wow, this is so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I feel like I'm at like a live, you know so, yeah,
I had a DJ a couple of times,like, yeah, yeah, I like to do
this.
I mean, there was about 20people here for my 40th.
So not as big of a rager as.
I used to throw, but it was.
It was nice because my most ofmy friends are in Toronto, so to
get them to come to Hamilton isnot always easy, but my
birthday is the one time of yearwhere I'm like you guys are
(03:27):
coming to see me because it's mybirthday.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, I mean, it was probably easier when you lived
in Toronto, and just like you,I'm not even in Toronto either.
I live in Brampton.
I've been here for like fouryears, going on five.
But yeah, it's crazy, right.
Yeah, when you get older, yourfriends.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Just you know well not me personally but people get
married and have kids and getbusy and, like you know, even my
best friend, I 100% stillconsider her my best friend, but
I only see her like once everycouple months maybe because
she's so busy, I'm so busy andit's just it's so hard to
coordinate.
Like she probably sees moms inher neighborhood more than she
(04:07):
sees me, but that's just because, like, our lives have kind of
gone in different directions andwe've moved apart.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And you know it's, it's certainly harder to
maintain relationships whenyou're this age, but you really
find out like who your, yourpeople are, because those are
the people that you still goback to after all these years
and you can see them once everythree months and that's okay,
that's just how life is now yeah, you know what, speaking of
seeing friends, like closefriends, like my one friend,
he's actually, oh, like he's myone of my closest friends and I
(04:35):
met him when I was at York andI've known him for like 20 years
too and I just saw him on awhim because I mean I didn't
plan the trip but I couldn'tbelieve it was seven years since
we've seen each other.
Like I mean, we'd have to yes,either come to Toronto, I go to
Calgary, you know.
So I get what you're saying.
With that, you also mentionedthe one thing your friend is
obviously a mom, and that'stotally different than your
(04:57):
whole experience, and I thinkthat's the one thing that I
don't know.
I think it makes you think whenyou get to 40, about like,
whether or not you see yourselfhaving kids I mean me and you
especially, because we're bothin the same boat like I don't
have any kids and I don't knowif that's gonna happen.
Like I still feel, like I'mpondering about it, like I'm not
(05:19):
, I've never thought that Iwould be a mom.
Like like some people alreadyknow, like when they're in their
early thirties.
I don't know, like, how do youfeel, like now that you're at
this stage in your life, aboutthe whole thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I made a decision years ago that I didn't want
kids.
It's just not something I don'tknow.
I just know too much aboutmyself to know that like I would
not be a happy mother.
I'm not saying I'd be a bad mom, I would love my kids if I had
them.
You know, that's just how itgoes.
But in terms of where I want mylife to go, like that, never.
Kids never fit into thatproperly.
(05:54):
And I mean until very, veryrecently, I was single for quite
a long time too, and I justlike, as I got older too, I was
like, you know, I can't imaginehaving a teenager when I'm in my
late 50s.
You know I want to be almostretired by then, so that I like,
at this point now, absolutelynot, I do not want kids.
And I, my cousins there's threeof them that have had had kids
(06:18):
later, like in their 40s, one ofthem in their late 40s and
they're thrilled, they're happy,they love their lives, but for
me I still it's not somethingthat I ever really wanted.
Like there was a very brieftime in my life where I thought,
maybe because my partner wantedthem but he actually passed
away, so that after thathappened it was just like nah,
I'm just, I'm back to my.
(06:39):
I've been like since I was ateenager I was like I don't want
kids.
I've always had that mentality.
So it was like it took oneperson to kind of make me like,
okay, maybe, but then you know,and I'm back to like I have no
interest in children.
I love them, I love having kids, but I love giving the kids
back to their parents.
I don't want to be the onehaving to take care of them and
deal with it and it's just likeI know I have.
(07:01):
So I've, you know, recentlydiscovered I have ADHD and like
all this stuff.
That like I'm, I'm stilllearning about myself and it's
like I couldn't imagine havingto take care of another kid like
, or like a kid, someone else inmy life who I know I would
prioritize.
So that's my personality, but Ihave hard enough time taking
care of myself.
So I can't imagine life likethat.
(07:23):
And like some people areabsolutely the complete opposite
.
Like my best friend, she alwayswanted kids and like she waited
.
She didn't have until she wasin her late 30s, so they're just
little now, but she alwayswanted them.
That just never changed in hermind, whereas me, like I knew
from a young age I didn't wantthem, and that didn't really
change for me.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, no, I can relate to that.
I think for me, because I tookcare of my siblings at such a
young age, having to take themout and try to find creative
things for us to do on like notlots of money and I'm like this
is a lot, I don't think.
I think that kind of made merealize too at a younger age I'm
like I don't know if I want tobe a mom.
(08:03):
This is a lot of work, likework, like you know, and I was
just their big sister and havingto be like oh yeah, I have to
take them to the park in thesummer or maybe I'll figure out
like that kind of thing and justhearing you talk about that
being not wanting to be a momand knowing from a young age in
your life and then another thingyou're learning that you have
(08:23):
ADHDhd it explains a lot of mywhole life and I'm much gentler
with myself now because I I usedto be like what's wrong with me
, why can't I function like anormal person?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
and now I know why because my brain doesn't
function properly.
So that's been a huge, huge,like change.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Wow I have not talked about that openly and, hearing
you say it, I have ADHD too andI got.
It took COVID for me to finallygo to see a doctor Get assessed
because I'm like I have anxiety.
But it was a lot worse, jen.
(08:59):
Like when I got laid off andlike not having a schedule or
routine and going to work, Icouldn't believe it.
I was like four hours a daylike not sleeping and I was just
like I need to figure outwhat's wrong, cause it's not
just my anxiety.
You know what I mean, so I cantotally relate.
I couldn't believe when yousaid that, I was like wow, yeah,
(09:20):
and it's it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It just explains so much of my life to me that I'm
like, okay, and like again, likeI said, it's so much more
gentle with myself now because,like I, I recognize that, like
there's not something wrong withme, there's a way my brain
functions is different from aneurotypical person, so, like,
just having that knowledge hasbeen incredibly valuable because
(09:42):
now I can I recognize that, youknow, because I'm that kind of
ADHD where, like there'ssomething on the floor and I
need to pick it up, but I'llwalk over it 30 times before I
actually pick it up.
It's that executive functionproblem.
But now it's like I'm like Jen,just pick it up as I have to
talk, okay, adhd brain, I'lljust pick that up, it'll take
(10:05):
you 30 seconds.
And like timers have been a bigthing for me, where I'm like
I'm going to do the thing for 30minutes that I don't want to do
because I'm not getting anydopamine from that, but I set a
timer and the timer goes off andI'm like, well, I might as well
just finish it, like thoselittle tricks that I'm literally
playing tricks on my own brainto help me function better.
But yeah, realizing that late inlife has just been incredible
(10:28):
for me because it explains somuch of my life and it helps me
understand myself so much better.
It's really helped me heal andreflect on, you know, everything
from school to family to, likerelationships, partners, all the
things that have happened in mylife, all the problems you know
, and when I just didn't knowwhy things weren't working or
(10:50):
why, you know, I would havethese personality traits that I
just could not change, likebeing messy, for example, like
I'm generally my place, likeliving around.
Right now it's, it's, yeah,looks pretty good to me.
But you know, then I'll have aweek where I'm just not good at
that and I come downstairs to myapartment and there's cups
(11:11):
everywhere and there's recyclingand my bedroom's a mess and my
clothes are everywhere and I'mlike, how did I?
Then I'll clean it and thenI'll be fine for a week.
You know, but it's just littlethings like that.
They used to drive my partnersinsane when they'd be like, just
pick your stuff up.
And it's not that I would hearthat and be like, well, screw
you, I don't want to do it.
I would literally leave theroom and it was gone.
(11:32):
It's not like I wasintentionally doing these things
to annoy a partner, Like I justliterally my brain, just the
function of my brain, was justoff.
But I'm recognizing that now.
It's like I'm, like I said,more gentle and kind to myself
but also at the same time likemore firm, like just just do the
thing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Like, as long as you have the reminders, like I have
to have reminders around.
My thing is laundry.
Like I I think my mom made me aclean freak in a way with that
but like, yeah, like you said,the laundry it'll be.
Like I'll do the laundry, butit takes me sometimes a week to
put it away, where sometimes I'mlike, okay, just put it away,
(12:14):
cause then in the morning you'renot looking where's the socks,
where's this?
And I'm telling you, likethere's been so many times I've
lost earphones.
I'm like, where did I put it?
Like why, yeah, why did I notput it back in the same place?
And I've found one.
I found out in the front yard,in the driveway.
Some car drove over it.
(12:36):
So I was like, oh, this is, andthis is why I don't buy
expensive earphones.
Another one, oh my god, I lostlike three or four of them.
So, hearing you say the wholemessy thing, messy, um, yeah, I
have my moments where I'm justlike, okay, I can't do the
dishes right now, I have to.
Like you know what I mean,certain things where I'm like,
(12:56):
okay, I'll do it when I get home, or I get fixated on it and not
realize like I have my, my days.
But yeah, like you said, beingkind to yourself is so important
.
Because you just like, I thinkI can understand what you're
saying, because there's so manymoments when I was younger I'm
like why am I like this?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
like, yeah, there's exactly those lines.
Why am I?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
like now oh my gosh, I was the worst in class.
Like I, if the class was boring, I'd like daydream or drift off
.
Yeah, math class, science class, oh my gosh, it was just yeah.
And you know, the problem is,too, where your parents just
think you're lazy.
I remember, yes, watching, Iget fixated on a show and be
(13:38):
watching something for hours onend.
My mom's like get up right now,like what are you doing me
watching this for hours.
And then, because they thinkyou're just lazy, but like once
you, you, once I got fixated onsomething.
Now I get it and I wouldn'twant to stop watching something
that I found interesting.
I didn't want to do anythingelse.
But to someone else like, whois like neurotypical, I guess,
(14:00):
is what you say They'd be likethink you're lazy, like you just
don't want to do anything.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, that's the biggest thing.
And you know, I actually readan article recently I can't
remember where it was, but itwas talking about like how much
negative energy you get, like asan undiagnosed ADHD kid.
Yeah, like my bedroom wasalways messy and like I loved
when it was clean and I felt sogood when I did that.
But I would just let it slipand my mom would constantly be
(14:25):
on me about it and like call melazy and call me dirty and call
me messy, and it's like you knowthat as a frustrated parent, I
would have done the exact samething.
But neither of us knew that,like I have executive function
problems and that, like Iliterally just need to like make
it a game or make it a contestor get her involved to help me
get it done, because I couldn'tdo it, like I would just freeze
(14:48):
my brain wouldn't let me do it.
I'd be staring at my room likeso messy, I hate it and not be
able to do anything about it.
But when you're growing up, likefrom your teachers, from your
parents, from your friends, likeyou're constantly getting this
negative thing and oh yeah, thestory was basically about how
you mask that and you mask itand over the years, you just
learn to keep sort of keepingthat part of yourself quiet and
(15:09):
then how, when you do finallyfigure out what's going on, like
it's like you can finally belike okay, you know what?
Yes, I am like this, I'm I'maware now and I can work on it,
but it's been years of memasking this because I was.
The thing is, I was always agood student because I would
hyper focus in class on whateverit was.
I was a speed reader.
(15:31):
I like I would go crazystudying for tests because I
would hyper focus on all thesethings whenever I needed to.
So it was hard.
Like I don't think anyone wouldhave guessed that I would have
ADHD and like, even in college,like I was, yeah yeah, I know we
didn't have that problem.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, there's certain subjects I probably didn't like
I probably needed a tutor, likein high school.
I like you, I I excelled too.
I had like I did well in school.
But just certain subjects I Ineeded someone to help me, like
math and science.
I struggled, yeah, I think well.
Then I decided I'm like, oh,I'm gonna do general math.
(16:06):
And when I took it I was likeexcelling.
And people are like, why areyou in this class?
Like you're getting like an A?
And I'm like, because advancedmath I could barely pass.
I had to go to summer schoollike I can't keep up.
They don't slow down for you inadvanced math like you, either
get it or you don't like we'renot waiting for you to catch on,
right.
But yeah, like you said, yeah, I, I figured it.
(16:27):
I think we like figure it out.
Like I had an agenda.
I always knew like write thingsout to keep myself organized in
one way or another.
But yeah, like you said,knowing is half the battle, like
it.
Yeah, I mean now, now that youknow, and then your mom knows,
do you feel like she's likeunderstanding of, like why?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Or like how was that conversation?
Did you even have it?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I live with my mother we share, so I have a basement
apartment and she lives on themain floor.
And yeah, this like sort ofexplaining that to her, you know
, I could see her sort ofthinking back and remembering
all those times and it's like Iwasn't like angry at her.
Like you, you were mean to mewhen I had you know, not like
that at all, I just like, evenas an adult, like again, like
(17:13):
you know, when I do let thingsget messy or I have four cups on
the go, because I've forgottenthat, you know I already.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I already drinking one drink.
Oh yeah, I finished that.
Oh, I didn't finish.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, and oh yeah, you're already drinking one
drink.
Oh yeah, I finished that.
Oh, I didn't finish.
Yeah, yeah, and that happenssometimes.
So I think she is just morepatient with me, because my
mom's very clean, you know, andlike she's very organized, she's
very like she rememberseverything.
You tell her your name once sheremembers it.
You tell her your birthday onceshe remembers it, which is not
how my brain works at allsomeone tells me their name and
like in half a second I'veforgotten what their name is.
(17:44):
So I think, just like herrecognizing that I have these
issues, has made her sort oflook at me in a different light
when she's like, okay, you know,maybe I shouldn't be so
judgmental all the time because,like she knows, like I'm not
going to let things get to thepoint where we have rodents
crawling around or anything.
But you know, there's likethere's sometimes like a week
where I just my executivefunction is real bad and I'm
(18:07):
messy and I'm forgetful and I'll, like you know, be late for
things all week and she used tobe like why, you know, just get
up earlier, just do that.
Like she used to kind of belike what, why can't you just do
the thing?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
and it's like I know I really can't yeah, I wish, if
I could do the thing, I would doit yes.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I want to be able to do the thing.
I don't like being late all thetime, like it's not something I
, I I want to have happen, butit just does because, like time,
blindness is a thing and, yeah,it's just.
How did we make?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
it to class.
I remember humber, like I'mlike I made it to.
I think there was one time Iwas really late and everyone was
shocked.
They're like karen, you'realways on time.
I'm like, maybe if it'ssomething I'm really interested
in, but if it's not, or like I'mhaving a rough time if I get
fixated on something, and thenI'm like oh my gosh.
Now I have like 20 minutes toget ready.
Yeah, yeah, I know, but that'snot the way I thought our
(19:01):
conversation would go.
What I'm telling you, like thiswhole series has been mind
blowing.
I'm telling you now like it'sbeen like unbelievable what
people, what my, my colleaguesare sharing about like just
being at 40 and being able totalk about certain things.
So I'm grateful that you'veshared that, because I did not,
(19:24):
I would have never known.
You know what I mean.
So because we both were reallygood students at Humber.
Diva Tonight Glamour for yourears.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
This is 40, a female perspective for your ears, this
is 40, a female perspective.
When you get to this age, youdo start to like sort of
self-reflect more and you'remore curious about why you've
done the things you do, and justthere's a lot more life to
reflect on.
At this point I certainly likemy attitude, like I remember
people always saying you know,once you hit your forties,
you're not going to care whatanyone thinks about you, you're
(19:57):
not going to this.
And I was.
I was like, oh no, no, I'm verysensitive, I'll always care
about that stuff.
But it's true, like I really Icould care less about what
people think about me now and Idon't stress out about you know,
I still say dumb things all thetime and I but I used to dwell
on that I go home and I say thatyou know they're going to think
I'm an idiot.
Now it's like I don't havethose thoughts anymore because I
(20:18):
literally don't care, which isvery freeing.
I mean.
I think just as you get older,you really start to know
yourself better and for me inparticular, like the last four
years, I was single, which Ihadn't been since I was really
17 years old.
It was like back-to-backrelationships One of them was 13
years, but being single overthe last four years, I gave me
(20:39):
the chance to like rediscoverwho I am outside of a
relationship, you know but alsogave me that time to like
reflect on my brain, because Iwas always, you know, I would I
would sort of attribute it to apartner as to why I did the
thing, you know, when I wasn'ttaking responsibility for my own
brain, but like just havingthat time and I guess COVID too
(20:59):
a lot of time alone andreflecting.
And I broke up with myboyfriend, like right before
lockdown, like it was a coupleof months before lockdown, which
I'm grateful for, because Idon't think that would have been
very well if we were stuck in ahouse together every single day
.
But yeah, having that time andthen like getting the ADHD
diagnosis and all that was just.
As you know, it was because Ihad that time and I was.
(21:23):
You know, I'm getting older andreflecting more and being like,
hey, there's something notquite right here.
I don't know what it is Like.
I know I'm not a broken human.
I have a job, two jobs, and Ifunction this far.
I was like, but there'ssomething that I'm just like I
can't get over this.
I'm just not functioning theway I want to be functioning,
and I now I know why.
But yeah, I think just thattime alone and maturing
(21:46):
emotionally has been a hugechange for me and, like I just
started dating someone we'realmost at three months, so
that's for the first time infour years, but this is probably
the healthiest relationshipI've ever been in and I'm going
to say that's probably a bigpart of that is because of, like
, my own emotional intelligencenow and just having that time to
(22:08):
myself.
Those four years were great.
They were very peaceful, youknow, and I really loved being
able to do what I want, what Iwant, not have to ask anyone if
they want to go, what they wantto do.
For my 39th birthday, I waslike you know what I really just
need a relaxing weekend tomyself.
(22:28):
So I booked a plane ticket toFlorida, I bought, I rented an
Airbnb and I just flew downthere by myself and I spent, I
think, like three days there,you know, hanging at the beach,
going out to restaurants bymyself, like this is something.
In my 20s I never would havedone that on my own.
There's no way I would havebeen like I'm just going to go
to Florida by myself and enjoythe sunshine in February.
That's what I want to do, whichis what I did and like I'm so
(22:52):
like secure myself and againlike going back to the not
caring what people think, like Iused to like be like, oh, if
I'm at a restaurant alone, likewhat are people going to think
of?
Now, I love going torestaurants alone.
I love doing like going to themovies alone doing I go to
concerts alone all the timebecause, again, it's a hard
alone I've done.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I've gone to one.
I remember our lady piecesomeone.
I tried to get someone to gowith me but they weren't able to
, and I'm like I might as wellgo because I love our lady piece
.
But right, yeah, no, it's good.
And when you can do thosethings by yourself, I feel like
it means that you're comfortablein your own skin.
Because I I my one friend, um,who I'm really close with case,
and he says that, carleen, youcan't always expect that your
(23:33):
friends are like you're gonnahave someone to go with, like
you're to miss out on a lot ofthings that you enjoy doing if
you're always trying to have itgo with someone.
And he was right, you know whatI mean.
I think once you start likejust going to like for the first
time, you're like is this notthat bad?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, and I just really in my head too, excuse me
was happy being single and I,like I've never been on a dating
app in my life, so that's notsomething I even ever tried.
Oh, I just like there's a fewpeople I was talking to, but it
was like I just really lostinterest in dating people
because the last fewrelationships were just awful
(24:13):
and I was one of them.
I was really trying to forcehim to love me, you know, and I
was like what am I?
What am Like, why I don't needthis?
And I think just you know whatis.
So I guess I was single from 37to 41.
All those years, like again, itwas like my friends started
having kids and getting marriedand then I couldn't just call
(24:33):
them up on a random Tuesday andbe like oh, you want to go to
this concert tonight.
So I was just like you knowwhat?
I'm just going to go alone.
Contrary to what you think, Ilove going to concerts alone
because I again can walkwherever I want.
I can go in the mosh pit if Iwant, I can stand at the back, I
can do whatever I want, whereas, like, when you're with a group
or with other people, you haveto constantly be checking in and
(24:55):
making the plans with the group, and the same with travel.
Like I, I flew to scotlandalone, I flew to florida alone.
I done all these things on myown and I'm really grateful for
that time with myself because Iwas like you know what, I'm
actually pretty fun to hangaround and you know, like I
don't need other people and Ilike for me, a big thing is like
I don't need a partner.
That was it's that classicstory when people like, once you
(25:17):
stop looking for you're gonnafind it, and blah, blah, blah
and I was.
I was like, oh, shut up, I'mfine, I love being single.
And then it happened to me andthe guy that I'm dating was the
exact same boat.
He was like I don't want todate anyone.
He was out of the game, likehadn't dated anyone in like over
a year, and then we justhappened to meet in person on a
boat in the middle of theCaribbean Ocean.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
So you know, oh, wow, oh so when you were traveling.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, I know some of that.
Like she met her husband inSpain, I'm like, in Spain, how
did you guys like manage to dothe whole long distance thing?
It's hard, you know what I mean, but I think, no, it's amazing
that you know you were singlefor four years and you obviously
did a lot of work on yourselfand I think that's the thing
(26:03):
that we all have to do, likeit's, it's important.
And I've done a lot of stuff onmy own too.
I, you know, I I talk aboutlike I took I hated the class, I
mean, I hated how long it was,but once I did it, it was.
I did a meditation workshop.
For what was it?
Nine weeks, those are hard nineweeks class, but I think it
really did teach me a lot.
Like I love talking and, uh, Idid silent retreat.
(26:26):
Then I was quiet for four hours.
I couldn't believe it.
Like we couldn't talk.
Wow me, that was mind-boggling.
I, I mind-blowing sorry, Ialways say that wrong
mind-blowing in a sense, whereI'm like I can't believe I did
that because that, for me, isthe hardest thing to and because
there were people in theworkshop like that, I know, and
(26:46):
that I like we're walking on theschool grounds, like we had to
go outside and do a discoverywalk and like you see the person
and I couldn't say anything tothem yeah so just like this is
wow, you know what I mean.
It kind of forces you to reflect, think about things in a
different way, and but hearingyou talk about just finding the
person, like when you leastexpect it, it just is so
(27:09):
important too.
But I do want to say something,because I think it's.
I was looking at somestatistics on women in their 40s
and so like they don't haveanything recent, but in 2021, so
nearly one quarter of couplesin Canada lived in common law
unions, with Quebec driving thistrend, and so basically, we're
(27:30):
saying the proportion of youngadults so 20 to 34, living with
at least one parent was 14 and ahalf percent.
And then the one thing that'sreally interesting is like 10 of
women in canada live on lowincome, so single mothers and
women facing multiple barriers,so I guess it's just shining a
(27:50):
light on, like you know, there'sobviously a percentage of women
that are single, but they'realso like low income in various
manners.
You know what I mean.
So, right, yeah, but I think,at this stage, though, even
online dating, like you said, soyou didn't have to meet your
person online or anything likethat, right?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
so no, it's something that has always terrified me,
and it's just because I I always, so wait a minute you've never,
never tried you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
You've never tried, never I've never been on a date,
oh wow.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And my reservations about it are that I always
immediately think people aregood people and like I'm, I, I
would give people time that theyprobably wouldn't deserve.
You know, even my, my bestfriend said to me, jen, you
would get eaten alive on thosehats.
And she's like you have apretty face, so people would
message you and you would benice to everybody.
(28:45):
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, Iwould, I would, and I know that
about myself.
So that kind of scared mebecause I was afraid of letting
in the wrong person, you know,and I just they had.
The biggest reason for me wasthat you can be whoever you want
online.
You can put whatever pictureyou want, you can say whatever
you want about yourself, you cantype whatever you think that
person wants to hear.
So I immediately don't trustyou because I don't know who you
(29:08):
actually are and, like I, Iwould go into the relationship
feeling that way.
So I'm like that's not a goodway to start a relationship
already, not trusting somebodybefore you've even met them.
You know, like that's.
I was like that is not a goodway for me mentally to start a
relationship.
So I was just like you knowwhat, I'm not doing it.
And if I meet someone, great,if not also great, because I
(29:30):
loved being single.
So, yeah, I just I had a fewfriends trying to push me like,
oh, you know, how are you evergonna meet someone?
Like maybe everyone's doing it,you know that that kind of
stuff and I was just like, yeah,no, I can't, I don't want to do
it, and I didn't.
And yeah, I met someone in reallife on a, on a car like, like
(29:50):
surrounded by people of the sameinterest, because it was a
music festival cruise and thisguy was a sound guy for one of
the bands and like I wouldn't, Iprobably would have never met
him if I had been dating allthese dating app people.
You know, like, when he was onthe same thing, he wasn't on the
apps either.
Like he has been on them in thepast.
When he said he went on a fewdates last year and he's like
they were just so terrible thathe was like you know what I'm
(30:12):
done?
I'm just going to be single.
He's just going to be single.
He's the exact same age as me.
He's a month younger than me.
So, yeah, like I don't know,like I think women in their 40s
are very much realizing that,like, being single is peaceful.
But, conversely, there's somemen also starting to kind of
feel that way too.
I think probably fewer, butthere's a lot of women.
(30:34):
Right now there's this bigmovement of protecting your own
peace, you know, and like a lotof women are thinking, you know,
relationships aren'tnecessarily the way to do that,
which I, I agree.
I mean I'm grateful things aregoing well, but I'm still like I
still have that in the back ofmy mind that I was very happy
being single and I would happilybe single again.
No, you know, speaking ill ofthe person I'm dating at all,
(30:56):
but but I think, even just beingsecure enough in myself now to
know that I'm not going to bemiserable and lonely and
desperate if I'm alone, that Ican still thrive and have a
great time and go on trips andconcerts and have friends and
family, that you know otherpeople that can fill my life
with love and fun, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, you know what?
Yeah, speaking of the benefits,so I mean to go back to what
you just said.
So they say the benefits ofsinglehood increase life
satisfaction and happiness,particularly around women in our
age group 40 to 85.
Lower loneliness levelscompared to married women,
especially in older age.
Greater financial independenceand security.
(31:38):
Yeah, so I think it isinteresting to discuss that
because, you know, I thinkthere's this stigma attached to
it, especially because societyexpects us to you know at what,
at this age, you're supposed to,you know, be dating someone.
At this age, you're supposed to, you know, be dating someone.
At this age you're supposed toget married and all these things
.
And I think maybe I'm anonconformist.
(31:58):
I've always been like, notconforming to society's beliefs.
I think I've always been likethat, like, just if you, if
something is expected of me, I'mlike, yeah, same.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, I'm very much the same, like in marriage.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
For me that's like's like yeah, you don't see
yourself getting married.
You're just like I'm notagainst marriage per se.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I don't have a lot of money so, like seeing these you
know hundred thousand dollarweddings that people put on to
me, I'm like man, yeah, thatmoney could go to so many better
things.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right, you're just throwing a big party for your
friends, really but you knowlike, uh, like a vegan
restaurant or something withlike your friends or something,
I don't know, like yeah yeah,like I again not against
marriage.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I've had a lot of fun , uh, really expensive big
weddings and I appreciate allyou know my friends bringing me
to that stuff.
But you know you can.
You can do weddings cheap oryou can just go to the
courthouse.
You don't even have to havelike a party.
But for me that's not like,it's not an end game.
You know, it's not something Iever ever thought like I need to
do this, like it's like again,like you, like I'm like well,
(33:01):
someone told me you got to getmarried and have kids and I'm
like do I though?
Like maybe, maybe I don't haveto do that and you don't have to
do that, and yeah, it's justnot something but it takes.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You don't have to it.
But I think it takes a verystrong minded person to do it
and be okay with it andcommunicate with your family,
because I think I'm sure it'sharder when your family's asking
Like even my grandmother stillasks me now and it's just like
you know.
That's the only.
I think that's the only thingthat makes it difficult with you
(33:36):
.
Are close with certain familymembers and they still ask about
it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
So especially the older generation like, yeah, I
was like that was just what youdid.
You know, like you finishedhigh school and you got married
and then you popped out somekids and that was, that was life
.
Yeah, I think just now, likethere have been times in my life
where, like there was one timewhere, like I had a partner who
wanted to marry me and I wantedto break up with him.
So, you know, like I'm not,like it could have happened for
(34:03):
me, because I'm not saying likeagain, I'm not against it, like
I'm not saying I'll never getmarried, I don't know that, but
it's not.
It's just not a goal for me,it's not something I feel like I
have to do to feel like acomplete person.
You know, and like, and againlike being so content being
single and then going into, likethis relationship I'm in now
like he's the same way, wherehe's like I'm not going to
(34:24):
marriage and I'm like cool meeither and he's like I don't
want kids and we're cool meeither.
Like and that's another thingtoo with dating over the last
four years or starting to talkto people.
I was very upfront with all thatstuff.
I was like I'm not interestedin, like rushing into marriage
or anything I said, and I don'twant kids.
Those are like the two thingsthat I just as a courtesy to
that other person, because ifthey're, if they want those
(34:46):
things, then I'm not the personfor them and that's.
I just wanted to get that outof the way.
But I'm telling you the amountof people that tried to convince
me otherwise, to be like, oh,but like, you know, like you
might regret not having kids, orlike I had one.
One guy have the audacity tosay, oh, but like, if you had
kids with me, it would be finebecause I would be a great dad,
(35:07):
so it wouldn't be much work.
And I was like, I'm sorry, areyou the one growing a human
inside you?
Like what do you mean?
It wouldn't be much work for me.
Like that mentality from likemen particular that I've talked
to over the last four years orso, um, just them trying to
change my mind about thesethings that I'm very firm and
upfront with, because I'm like,if that, if you don't, that, not
(35:29):
you, that's not for you, thenI'm not for you and and that's
fine and I, you know, let's moveon before we get any feelings
involved here.
But there was numerous men whotold me I would change my mind,
or they would make me change mymind, or their kids would be the
best.
And like I, like I just there's.
Oftentimes I didn't know how torespond to that, but usually I
(35:52):
would just like look, I havemade my decision.
I'm telling you this because ifthat's not what you want, let's
just move on.
Like there's a million otherwomen out there who would love
to get married and love to starta family.
That's not me, yeah, it's just.
There's just some people thatjust are not accepted.
Like they can't understand thatthat's actually what I want and
(36:12):
they can't respect that that'sactually what I want and they
can't respect that that'sactually what I want.
They always think, oh, you'rejust, you're doing that to be
because you want to be differentor you want to protect yourself
or whatever, and it's just likeno, this, the life that I
imagine, doesn't involve eitherof those things, and it's very,
very difficult for some peopleto accept because we've all been
instilled with these you knowtimelines and what we're
(36:36):
supposed to have done in life,and I think, like a lot of
people around this age feel thatright now, like they don't have
that that marriage and kidsthing and family, that they're
failing, that they're fallingbehind, which is sad, really,
because then it takes peopleaway from just going out and
enjoying life, you know, becausethey're so worried and
depressed because they don'thave a wife or a husband.
(36:58):
And I wish people like I'm notsaying be like me because, like,
again, I've made my choices andthis is just how I see my life
playing out.
Any other way anyone sees theirlife is fine, but, like, I wish
people would stop being so hardon themselves and putting
pressure to like fit that mold.
Like you being so hard onthemselves and putting pressure
to like fit that mold.
Like you said that, what peopleyou're supposed to be doing?
Because I I have a lot of, youknow, acquaintances that I've
(37:19):
known that have married thewrong person just because they
were like oh, this could be mylast chance.
It's like, no, you got untilyou're dead.
Like, whenever that may be,there's no rush, there's no,
everyone's timelines aredifferent.
Yeah, yeah and yeah, I thinkbeing like 40 is like, it's that
midlife crisis age, you know,like, and I feel that too, like
(37:41):
I'm like, that's the point rightnow where I'm like do I need a
career change?
Like do I want to move?
Like what?
Like you know, and I, I hadthese thoughts and I'm like
where's this coming from?
I'm like it's because I'mhaving my midlife crisis.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I have 25 more years to work.
Like, what am I going to dowith it?
You know Exactly, but you know,I think I don't know if I had
the midlife crisis, but I didhave the health scare and that
kind of makes you it's kind oflike that wake up call.
And you know, speaking of liketimeline, I listened to Mel
Robbins podcast and the onething I appreciate her saying is
, like you know those timelinesthat society expects you.
(38:21):
Like you know, having a houseby the time you're 35, 40.
Like I mean, she's like theaverage person who can own a
home is like so much later on inlife, because that was
different at a different time,and now houses having a house
now is so much harder because inlife, because that was
different at a different time,and now houses having a house
now is so much harder because ofthe market.
And so we have to be likelooking at everything for what
(38:44):
it is in terms of the time rightnow and like being, like you
said, being okay with thesituation that you're in now and
it's it's it's your time.
Like I mean, you know, even me,like you, you're talking about
your career, it's, it's yourtime.
Like I mean, you know even me.
Like you, you're talking aboutyour career.
Like even me too, I was like Ididn't get clarity on where, on
my career choice, until I thinkI was 39, and then it kind of
(39:07):
everything kind of like madesense because, when other people
have, like they see what you'regood at and you don't see what
they're talking about.
I've had, I've had, I've had.
I remember my high schoolteacher and I told a story to
another friend.
But like everyone has adifferent uh journey to get to
and like we're all, we're allgoing on a different path.
(39:27):
Like you know, some peoplefigure it out younger.
Like some people figure it outlike 30, 40, like there's no set
time and like it's, it's, it'shard.
You know, I guess, when youhave these expectations but I
think it it just goes back tothe fact that, like you are
where you're supposed to be andyou're gonna figure it out.
(39:48):
Like just like you're gonnafigure it out and it took you
four years of being on your ownand I think it's good though,
like I mean, because, likethere's a reason why you had to
be single for that amount oftime to discover who you are and
work on yourself, and becauseyou want the person, like the
person that you're with, youwant them to be in that stage of
(40:09):
life too.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Like yeah when you want to be able to present your
best self too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
But I think this is like one of those conversations
where we definitely have to talkmore, but it's it's amazing how
far you've come since you knowwe met like how many years ago
now, like 15 years ago 15 years.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Or was it 2009?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I don't even know 2010.
I years yeah, right, yeah orwas it 2009, I don't even know
2010 I think, yeah, I rememberwhen I was like I'm like, oh my
gosh, I got into humber.
I was so excited too.
Yeah, I left the job.
I go back to college.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
When I was 26, I was like this is great you know, I
was kind of like thinking wellfor me when I was like, oh, I'm
old, like is it gonna?
Am I going to feel weird?
Is there going to be otherpeople in my age group?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And then we found a cluster of us that were like A
little group of the older people.
Yeah, but we still made friendswith all the 18-year-olds.
Yeah, we did right.
We still talked to a couple ofthem.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah, you still talk to Sabrina.
Do you still talk to her?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Sabrina, the odd time .
Yeah, oh, you do.
Okay, that's like online, likewhatever.
Yeah, I still talk to likeKaran, like a few other people
that we met there.
Yeah, I was.
That was a an interesting timeand that was another thing too.
You know, like most people knewwhat they wanted to do right
out of high school.
I didn't, so I just went towork.
And it wasn't until I was 26and I had been in a career in
(41:35):
finance for five years at thatpoint that I was like, well,
this is not for me, this is notwhat I want to be doing, I'm
miserable.
And then, like just that daywhen that realization was like I
could just do something else, Iapplied for school.
That day, within a week, I hadbeen to the school for an
interview, got accepted and thenquit my job and I was just like
I'm kind of.
At that point now I was like,you know, I would love to go
(41:57):
back to school.
I can't financially do that tomyself again, because I just
paid off my school loans, Ithink last year or the year
before.
So good for you, jen, but Idon't want to go through that
again and I'm like, because Ilove learning, I would love to
go back to school and like trysomething else, and I'm very
(42:18):
interested in a number of things.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
But I'm just like financially.
I don't, I don't know, yeah,well, you know, I feel like with
online now, like if you do someonline courses and stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
The alternative jobs and work.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, exactly Right.
Yeah, it's so cool, though Imean for sure, it's just
whatever you decide to do,that's going to work for you in
the end, right?
But yeah, it's been a greatconversation and I hope we do it
again.
I'm Carlene and this is DivaTonight with Jen Kay.
You can follow her online atInstagram, but I put your link
(42:55):
here for Twitter, which is nowXJPotion, and then you can
listen to her, right?
Sometimes you're like you fillin.
Is that what you do?
I do, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I have a weekly show on 92.9 the Grand and 88.5 the
Lake on Sunday nights 9 tomidnight.
Oh nice, 8 to midnight.
Sorry, I got an extra hour now8 to midnight.
Sorry, I got an extra hour now8 to midnight.
And then, yeah, I fill in swingwhenever I'm needed that's cool
.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
For sure, it's been great.
This has been like sounexpected.
I gotta say I didn't even thinkthis conversation would turn
this way.
But yeah, it's been awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
But yeah, thank you so much oh, thank you and yeah,
gotta have that conversationabout ai sometime for sure, we
definitely do definitely divatonight with carlene.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
We'll be back.
Send us a message on instagramat diva underscore tonight.
Hi, I'm Carlene and this is Diva Tonight, a podcast
about women in their 40s and afemale perspective on this stage
of life.
We'll be talking about datingand why single life might be for
you.
I have in front of me mycolleague like we went to humber
together jennifer coalition.
(00:25):
She is creative writer,producer, office manager and
announcer for 92.9, the grandright yeah, hats there right.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, we have a cluster of stations, so it's not
just that one, but yeah, oh,what are the other stations?
I know there's a few, rightyeah, we got kx 94.7, our
country station, uh 88.5, thelake, well, oshawa.
We have uh 94.9, the rock, kx96 and ckdo and we're actually
just like oh, we have a stationin vancouver, now we're
launching some in peterborough,so there's a lot going on wow,
(00:59):
lots going.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, that's keeping you busy for sure.
I don't know if you know this,but our old classmate, erin, she
said that she didn't.
She listens to 92.9 the grandand I told her I'm like that's
where Jen works.
She's like, oh, I had no idea.
I'm like, yeah right, you'vebeen there like quite a few
years now.
Is it over like a decade?
Like how long?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
yeah, it'll be.
I think 12 years this year thatI'm at this company Wow and the
brand launched in 2016.
So I've been with them sinceday one.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Wow, that's amazing.
How does that feel, though?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like to be to feel old.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That's how I feel old too.
Like talking to you now,because it's just like when we
think about Humber and like ourmemories there and like how much
time we spent in the studio,you know.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And just to think that that was you know 13 years
ago is just mind boggling to me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I know I was just like wow, where did the time go?
Like every time I think aboutit, I can't believe.
Like you know, we're in our 40s, Right?
So how?
What did you do for your 40thbirthday?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
A whole bunch of stuff.
I think I went on two trips inthe same month.
I took a trip to Vegas with mymom because she had never been
and I was like, hey, let's goparty up in Vegas.
I went on an emo cruise so it'slike a music festival cruise,
essentially with my friend CJ,which was super fun, and I had a
big birthday party at my house.
That's what I did for my 40th.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Nice, how many people showed up at your house party.
I know your house Jen throws agood house party.
I'm going to say that Iremember you used to.
I mean.
The one thing I did like,though, was like I mean, I was
annoyed at the Leafs alwaysplaying in the background.
I'm like, oh my gosh, that islike nothing has changed right,
(02:48):
I mean the Leafs are like we'reisn't tonight.
There's a game on tonight,right, but getting back to your
house parties, so yeah, Jenthrew a good house party.
Like there's always music.
If she's not playing guitar,some of her friends are and I'm
like, wow, this is so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I feel like I'm at like a live, you know so, yeah,
I had a DJ a couple of times,like, yeah, yeah, I like to do
this.
I mean, there was about 20people here for my 40th.
So not as big of a rager as.
I used to throw, but it was.
It was nice because my most ofmy friends are in Toronto, so to
get them to come to Hamilton isnot always easy, but my
birthday is the one time of yearwhere I'm like you guys are
(03:27):
coming to see me because it's mybirthday.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, I mean, it was probably easier when you lived
in Toronto, and just like you,I'm not even in Toronto either.
I live in Brampton.
I've been here for like fouryears, going on five.
But yeah, it's crazy, right.
Yeah, when you get older, yourfriends.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Just you know well not me personally but people get
married and have kids and getbusy and, like you know, even my
best friend, I 100% stillconsider her my best friend, but
I only see her like once everycouple months maybe because
she's so busy, I'm so busy andit's just it's so hard to
coordinate.
Like she probably sees moms inher neighborhood more than she
(04:07):
sees me, but that's just because, like, our lives have kind of
gone in different directions andwe've moved apart.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And you know it's, it's certainly harder to
maintain relationships whenyou're this age, but you really
find out like who your, yourpeople are, because those are
the people that you still goback to after all these years
and you can see them once everythree months and that's okay,
that's just how life is now yeah, you know what, speaking of
seeing friends, like closefriends, like my one friend,
he's actually, oh, like he's myone of my closest friends and I
(04:35):
met him when I was at York andI've known him for like 20 years
too and I just saw him on awhim because I mean I didn't
plan the trip but I couldn'tbelieve it was seven years since
we've seen each other.
Like I mean, we'd have to yes,either come to Toronto, I go to
Calgary, you know.
So I get what you're saying.
With that, you also mentionedthe one thing your friend is
obviously a mom, and that'stotally different than your
(04:57):
whole experience, and I thinkthat's the one thing that I
don't know.
I think it makes you think whenyou get to 40, about like,
whether or not you see yourselfhaving kids I mean me and you
especially, because we're bothin the same boat like I don't
have any kids and I don't knowif that's gonna happen.
Like I still feel, like I'mpondering about it, like I'm not
(05:19):
, I've never thought that Iwould be a mom.
Like like some people alreadyknow, like when they're in their
early thirties.
I don't know, like, how do youfeel, like now that you're at
this stage in your life, aboutthe whole thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I made a decision years ago that I didn't want
kids.
It's just not something I don'tknow.
I just know too much aboutmyself to know that like I would
not be a happy mother.
I'm not saying I'd be a bad mom, I would love my kids if I had
them.
You know, that's just how itgoes.
But in terms of where I want mylife to go, like that, never.
Kids never fit into thatproperly.
(05:54):
And I mean until very, veryrecently, I was single for quite
a long time too, and I justlike, as I got older too, I was
like, you know, I can't imaginehaving a teenager when I'm in my
late 50s.
You know I want to be almostretired by then, so that I like,
at this point now, absolutelynot, I do not want kids.
And I, my cousins there's threeof them that have had had kids
(06:18):
later, like in their 40s, one ofthem in their late 40s and
they're thrilled, they're happy,they love their lives, but for
me I still it's not somethingthat I ever really wanted.
Like there was a very brieftime in my life where I thought,
maybe because my partner wantedthem but he actually passed
away, so that after thathappened it was just like nah,
I'm just, I'm back to my.
(06:39):
I've been like since I was ateenager I was like I don't want
kids.
I've always had that mentality.
So it was like it took oneperson to kind of make me like,
okay, maybe, but then you know,and I'm back to like I have no
interest in children.
I love them, I love having kids, but I love giving the kids
back to their parents.
I don't want to be the onehaving to take care of them and
deal with it and it's just likeI know I have.
(07:01):
So I've, you know, recentlydiscovered I have ADHD and like
all this stuff.
That like I'm, I'm stilllearning about myself and it's
like I couldn't imagine havingto take care of another kid like
, or like a kid, someone else inmy life who I know I would
prioritize.
So that's my personality, but Ihave hard enough time taking
care of myself.
So I can't imagine life likethat.
(07:23):
And like some people areabsolutely the complete opposite
.
Like my best friend, she alwayswanted kids and like she waited
.
She didn't have until she wasin her late 30s, so they're just
little now, but she alwayswanted them.
That just never changed in hermind, whereas me, like I knew
from a young age I didn't wantthem, and that didn't really
change for me.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, no, I can relate to that.
I think for me, because I tookcare of my siblings at such a
young age, having to take themout and try to find creative
things for us to do on like notlots of money and I'm like this
is a lot, I don't think.
I think that kind of made merealize too at a younger age I'm
like I don't know if I want tobe a mom.
(08:03):
This is a lot of work, likework, like you know, and I was
just their big sister and havingto be like oh yeah, I have to
take them to the park in thesummer or maybe I'll figure out
like that kind of thing and justhearing you talk about that
being not wanting to be a momand knowing from a young age in
your life and then another thingyou're learning that you have
(08:23):
ADHDhd it explains a lot of mywhole life and I'm much gentler
with myself now because I I usedto be like what's wrong with me
, why can't I function like anormal person?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
and now I know why because my brain doesn't
function properly.
So that's been a huge, huge,like change.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Wow I have not talked about that openly and, hearing
you say it, I have ADHD too andI got.
It took COVID for me to finallygo to see a doctor Get assessed
because I'm like I have anxiety.
But it was a lot worse, jen.
(08:59):
Like when I got laid off andlike not having a schedule or
routine and going to work, Icouldn't believe it.
I was like four hours a daylike not sleeping and I was just
like I need to figure outwhat's wrong, cause it's not
just my anxiety.
You know what I mean, so I cantotally relate.
I couldn't believe when yousaid that, I was like wow, yeah,
(09:20):
and it's it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It just explains so much of my life to me that I'm
like, okay, and like again, likeI said, it's so much more
gentle with myself now because,like I, I recognize that, like
there's not something wrong withme, there's a way my brain
functions is different from aneurotypical person, so, like,
just having that knowledge hasbeen incredibly valuable because
(09:42):
now I can I recognize that, youknow, because I'm that kind of
ADHD where, like there'ssomething on the floor and I
need to pick it up, but I'llwalk over it 30 times before I
actually pick it up.
It's that executive functionproblem.
But now it's like I'm like Jen,just pick it up as I have to
talk, okay, adhd brain, I'lljust pick that up, it'll take
(10:05):
you 30 seconds.
And like timers have been a bigthing for me, where I'm like
I'm going to do the thing for 30minutes that I don't want to do
because I'm not getting anydopamine from that, but I set a
timer and the timer goes off andI'm like, well, I might as well
just finish it, like thoselittle tricks that I'm literally
playing tricks on my own brainto help me function better.
But yeah, realizing that late inlife has just been incredible
(10:28):
for me because it explains somuch of my life and it helps me
understand myself so much better.
It's really helped me heal andreflect on, you know, everything
from school to family to, likerelationships, partners, all the
things that have happened in mylife, all the problems you know
, and when I just didn't knowwhy things weren't working or
(10:50):
why, you know, I would havethese personality traits that I
just could not change, likebeing messy, for example, like
I'm generally my place, likeliving around.
Right now it's, it's, yeah,looks pretty good to me.
But you know, then I'll have aweek where I'm just not good at
that and I come downstairs to myapartment and there's cups
(11:11):
everywhere and there's recyclingand my bedroom's a mess and my
clothes are everywhere and I'mlike, how did I?
Then I'll clean it and thenI'll be fine for a week.
You know, but it's just littlethings like that.
They used to drive my partnersinsane when they'd be like, just
pick your stuff up.
And it's not that I would hearthat and be like, well, screw
you, I don't want to do it.
I would literally leave theroom and it was gone.
(11:32):
It's not like I wasintentionally doing these things
to annoy a partner, Like I justliterally my brain, just the
function of my brain, was justoff.
But I'm recognizing that now.
It's like I'm, like I said,more gentle and kind to myself
but also at the same time likemore firm, like just just do the
thing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Like, as long as you have the reminders, like I have
to have reminders around.
My thing is laundry.
Like I I think my mom made me aclean freak in a way with that
but like, yeah, like you said,the laundry it'll be.
Like I'll do the laundry, butit takes me sometimes a week to
put it away, where sometimes I'mlike, okay, just put it away,
(12:14):
cause then in the morning you'renot looking where's the socks,
where's this?
And I'm telling you, likethere's been so many times I've
lost earphones.
I'm like, where did I put it?
Like why, yeah, why did I notput it back in the same place?
And I've found one.
I found out in the front yard,in the driveway.
Some car drove over it.
(12:36):
So I was like, oh, this is, andthis is why I don't buy
expensive earphones.
Another one, oh my god, I lostlike three or four of them.
So, hearing you say the wholemessy thing, messy, um, yeah, I
have my moments where I'm justlike, okay, I can't do the
dishes right now, I have to.
Like you know what I mean,certain things where I'm like,
(12:56):
okay, I'll do it when I get home, or I get fixated on it and not
realize like I have my, my days.
But yeah, like you said, beingkind to yourself is so important
.
Because you just like, I thinkI can understand what you're
saying, because there's so manymoments when I was younger I'm
like why am I like this?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
like, yeah, there's exactly those lines.
Why am I?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
like now oh my gosh, I was the worst in class.
Like I, if the class was boring, I'd like daydream or drift off
.
Yeah, math class, science class, oh my gosh, it was just yeah.
And you know, the problem is,too, where your parents just
think you're lazy.
I remember, yes, watching, Iget fixated on a show and be
(13:38):
watching something for hours onend.
My mom's like get up right now,like what are you doing me
watching this for hours.
And then, because they thinkyou're just lazy, but like once
you, you, once I got fixated onsomething.
Now I get it and I wouldn'twant to stop watching something
that I found interesting.
I didn't want to do anythingelse.
But to someone else like, whois like neurotypical, I guess,
(14:00):
is what you say They'd be likethink you're lazy, like you just
don't want to do anything.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, that's the biggest thing.
And you know, I actually readan article recently I can't
remember where it was, but itwas talking about like how much
negative energy you get, like asan undiagnosed ADHD kid.
Yeah, like my bedroom wasalways messy and like I loved
when it was clean and I felt sogood when I did that.
But I would just let it slipand my mom would constantly be
(14:25):
on me about it and like call melazy and call me dirty and call
me messy, and it's like you knowthat as a frustrated parent, I
would have done the exact samething.
But neither of us knew that,like I have executive function
problems and that, like Iliterally just need to like make
it a game or make it a contestor get her involved to help me
get it done, because I couldn'tdo it, like I would just freeze
(14:48):
my brain wouldn't let me do it.
I'd be staring at my room likeso messy, I hate it and not be
able to do anything about it.
But when you're growing up, likefrom your teachers, from your
parents, from your friends, likeyou're constantly getting this
negative thing and oh yeah, thestory was basically about how
you mask that and you mask itand over the years, you just
learn to keep sort of keepingthat part of yourself quiet and
(15:09):
then how, when you do finallyfigure out what's going on, like
it's like you can finally belike okay, you know what?
Yes, I am like this, I'm I'maware now and I can work on it,
but it's been years of memasking this because I was.
The thing is, I was always agood student because I would
hyper focus in class on whateverit was.
I was a speed reader.
(15:31):
I like I would go crazystudying for tests because I
would hyper focus on all thesethings whenever I needed to.
So it was hard.
Like I don't think anyone wouldhave guessed that I would have
ADHD and like, even in college,like I was, yeah yeah, I know we
didn't have that problem.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, there's certain subjects I probably didn't like
I probably needed a tutor, likein high school.
I like you, I I excelled too.
I had like I did well in school.
But just certain subjects I Ineeded someone to help me, like
math and science.
I struggled, yeah, I think well.
Then I decided I'm like, oh,I'm gonna do general math.
(16:06):
And when I took it I was likeexcelling.
And people are like, why areyou in this class?
Like you're getting like an A?
And I'm like, because advancedmath I could barely pass.
I had to go to summer schoollike I can't keep up.
They don't slow down for you inadvanced math like you, either
get it or you don't like we'renot waiting for you to catch on,
right.
But yeah, like you said, yeah, I, I figured it.
(16:27):
I think we like figure it out.
Like I had an agenda.
I always knew like write thingsout to keep myself organized in
one way or another.
But yeah, like you said,knowing is half the battle, like
it.
Yeah, I mean now, now that youknow, and then your mom knows,
do you feel like she's likeunderstanding of, like why?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Or like how was that conversation?
Did you even have it?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I live with my mother we share, so I have a basement
apartment and she lives on themain floor.
And yeah, this like sort ofexplaining that to her, you know
, I could see her sort ofthinking back and remembering
all those times and it's like Iwasn't like angry at her.
Like you, you were mean to mewhen I had you know, not like
that at all, I just like, evenas an adult, like again, like
(17:13):
you know, when I do let thingsget messy or I have four cups on
the go, because I've forgottenthat, you know I already.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I already drinking one drink.
Oh yeah, I finished that.
Oh, I didn't finish.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, and oh yeah, you're already drinking one
drink.
Oh yeah, I finished that.
Oh, I didn't finish.
Yeah, yeah, and that happenssometimes.
So I think she is just morepatient with me, because my
mom's very clean, you know, andlike she's very organized, she's
very like she rememberseverything.
You tell her your name once sheremembers it.
You tell her your birthday onceshe remembers it, which is not
how my brain works at allsomeone tells me their name and
like in half a second I'veforgotten what their name is.
(17:44):
So I think, just like herrecognizing that I have these
issues, has made her sort oflook at me in a different light
when she's like, okay, you know,maybe I shouldn't be so
judgmental all the time because,like she knows, like I'm not
going to let things get to thepoint where we have rodents
crawling around or anything.
But you know, there's likethere's sometimes like a week
where I just my executivefunction is real bad and I'm
(18:07):
messy and I'm forgetful and I'll, like you know, be late for
things all week and she used tobe like why, you know, just get
up earlier, just do that.
Like she used to kind of belike what, why can't you just do
the thing?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
and it's like I know I really can't yeah, I wish, if
I could do the thing, I would doit yes.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I want to be able to do the thing.
I don't like being late all thetime, like it's not something I
, I I want to have happen, butit just does because, like time,
blindness is a thing and, yeah,it's just.
How did we make?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
it to class.
I remember humber, like I'mlike I made it to.
I think there was one time Iwas really late and everyone was
shocked.
They're like karen, you'realways on time.
I'm like, maybe if it'ssomething I'm really interested
in, but if it's not, or like I'mhaving a rough time if I get
fixated on something, and thenI'm like oh my gosh.
Now I have like 20 minutes toget ready.
Yeah, yeah, I know, but that'snot the way I thought our
(19:01):
conversation would go.
What I'm telling you, like thiswhole series has been mind
blowing.
I'm telling you now like it'sbeen like unbelievable what
people, what my, my colleaguesare sharing about like just
being at 40 and being able totalk about certain things.
So I'm grateful that you'veshared that, because I did not,
(19:24):
I would have never known.
You know what I mean.
So because we both were reallygood students at Humber.
Diva Tonight Glamour for yourears.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
This is 40, a female perspective for your ears, this
is 40, a female perspective.
When you get to this age, youdo start to like sort of
self-reflect more and you'remore curious about why you've
done the things you do, and justthere's a lot more life to
reflect on.
At this point I certainly likemy attitude, like I remember
people always saying you know,once you hit your forties,
you're not going to care whatanyone thinks about you, you're
(19:57):
not going to this.
And I was.
I was like, oh no, no, I'm verysensitive, I'll always care
about that stuff.
But it's true, like I really Icould care less about what
people think about me now and Idon't stress out about you know,
I still say dumb things all thetime and I but I used to dwell
on that I go home and I say thatyou know they're going to think
I'm an idiot.
Now it's like I don't havethose thoughts anymore because I
(20:18):
literally don't care, which isvery freeing.
I mean.
I think just as you get older,you really start to know
yourself better and for me inparticular, like the last four
years, I was single, which Ihadn't been since I was really
17 years old.
It was like back-to-backrelationships One of them was 13
years, but being single overthe last four years, I gave me
(20:39):
the chance to like rediscoverwho I am outside of a
relationship, you know but alsogave me that time to like
reflect on my brain, because Iwas always, you know, I would I
would sort of attribute it to apartner as to why I did the
thing, you know, when I wasn'ttaking responsibility for my own
brain, but like just havingthat time and I guess COVID too
(20:59):
a lot of time alone andreflecting.
And I broke up with myboyfriend, like right before
lockdown, like it was a coupleof months before lockdown, which
I'm grateful for, because Idon't think that would have been
very well if we were stuck in ahouse together every single day
.
But yeah, having that time andthen like getting the ADHD
diagnosis and all that was just.
As you know, it was because Ihad that time and I was.
(21:23):
You know, I'm getting older andreflecting more and being like,
hey, there's something notquite right here.
I don't know what it is Like.
I know I'm not a broken human.
I have a job, two jobs, and Ifunction this far.
I was like, but there'ssomething that I'm just like I
can't get over this.
I'm just not functioning theway I want to be functioning,
and I now I know why.
But yeah, I think just thattime alone and maturing
(21:46):
emotionally has been a hugechange for me and, like I just
started dating someone we'realmost at three months, so
that's for the first time infour years, but this is probably
the healthiest relationshipI've ever been in and I'm going
to say that's probably a bigpart of that is because of, like
, my own emotional intelligencenow and just having that time to
(22:08):
myself.
Those four years were great.
They were very peaceful, youknow, and I really loved being
able to do what I want, what Iwant, not have to ask anyone if
they want to go, what they wantto do.
For my 39th birthday, I waslike you know what I really just
need a relaxing weekend tomyself.
(22:28):
So I booked a plane ticket toFlorida, I bought, I rented an
Airbnb and I just flew downthere by myself and I spent, I
think, like three days there,you know, hanging at the beach,
going out to restaurants bymyself, like this is something.
In my 20s I never would havedone that on my own.
There's no way I would havebeen like I'm just going to go
to Florida by myself and enjoythe sunshine in February.
That's what I want to do, whichis what I did and like I'm so
(22:52):
like secure myself and againlike going back to the not
caring what people think, like Iused to like be like, oh, if
I'm at a restaurant alone, likewhat are people going to think
of?
Now, I love going torestaurants alone.
I love doing like going to themovies alone doing I go to
concerts alone all the timebecause, again, it's a hard
alone I've done.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I've gone to one.
I remember our lady piecesomeone.
I tried to get someone to gowith me but they weren't able to
, and I'm like I might as wellgo because I love our lady piece
.
But right, yeah, no, it's good.
And when you can do thosethings by yourself, I feel like
it means that you're comfortablein your own skin.
Because I I my one friend, um,who I'm really close with case,
and he says that, carleen, youcan't always expect that your
(23:33):
friends are like you're gonnahave someone to go with, like
you're to miss out on a lot ofthings that you enjoy doing if
you're always trying to have itgo with someone.
And he was right, you know whatI mean.
I think once you start likejust going to like for the first
time, you're like is this notthat bad?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, and I just really in my head too, excuse me
was happy being single and I,like I've never been on a dating
app in my life, so that's notsomething I even ever tried.
Oh, I just like there's a fewpeople I was talking to, but it
was like I just really lostinterest in dating people
because the last fewrelationships were just awful
(24:13):
and I was one of them.
I was really trying to forcehim to love me, you know, and I
was like what am I?
What am Like, why I don't needthis?
And I think just you know whatis.
So I guess I was single from 37to 41.
All those years, like again, itwas like my friends started
having kids and getting marriedand then I couldn't just call
(24:33):
them up on a random Tuesday andbe like oh, you want to go to
this concert tonight.
So I was just like you knowwhat?
I'm just going to go alone.
Contrary to what you think, Ilove going to concerts alone
because I again can walkwherever I want.
I can go in the mosh pit if Iwant, I can stand at the back, I
can do whatever I want, whereas, like, when you're with a group
or with other people, you haveto constantly be checking in and
(24:55):
making the plans with the group, and the same with travel.
Like I, I flew to scotlandalone, I flew to florida alone.
I done all these things on myown and I'm really grateful for
that time with myself because Iwas like you know what, I'm
actually pretty fun to hangaround and you know, like I
don't need other people and Ilike for me, a big thing is like
I don't need a partner.
That was it's that classicstory when people like, once you
(25:17):
stop looking for you're gonnafind it, and blah, blah, blah
and I was.
I was like, oh, shut up, I'mfine, I love being single.
And then it happened to me andthe guy that I'm dating was the
exact same boat.
He was like I don't want todate anyone.
He was out of the game, likehadn't dated anyone in like over
a year, and then we justhappened to meet in person on a
boat in the middle of theCaribbean Ocean.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
So you know, oh, wow, oh so when you were traveling.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, I know some of that.
Like she met her husband inSpain, I'm like, in Spain, how
did you guys like manage to dothe whole long distance thing?
It's hard, you know what I mean, but I think, no, it's amazing
that you know you were singlefor four years and you obviously
did a lot of work on yourselfand I think that's the thing
(26:03):
that we all have to do, likeit's, it's important.
And I've done a lot of stuff onmy own too.
I, you know, I I talk aboutlike I took I hated the class, I
mean, I hated how long it was,but once I did it, it was.
I did a meditation workshop.
For what was it?
Nine weeks, those are hard nineweeks class, but I think it
really did teach me a lot.
Like I love talking and, uh, Idid silent retreat.
(26:26):
Then I was quiet for four hours.
I couldn't believe it.
Like we couldn't talk.
Wow me, that was mind-boggling.
I, I mind-blowing sorry, Ialways say that wrong
mind-blowing in a sense, whereI'm like I can't believe I did
that because that, for me, isthe hardest thing to and because
there were people in theworkshop like that, I know, and
(26:46):
that I like we're walking on theschool grounds, like we had to
go outside and do a discoverywalk and like you see the person
and I couldn't say anything tothem yeah so just like this is
wow, you know what I mean.
It kind of forces you to reflect, think about things in a
different way, and but hearingyou talk about just finding the
person, like when you leastexpect it, it just is so
(27:09):
important too.
But I do want to say something,because I think it's.
I was looking at somestatistics on women in their 40s
and so like they don't haveanything recent, but in 2021, so
nearly one quarter of couplesin Canada lived in common law
unions, with Quebec driving thistrend, and so basically, we're
(27:30):
saying the proportion of youngadults so 20 to 34, living with
at least one parent was 14 and ahalf percent.
And then the one thing that'sreally interesting is like 10 of
women in canada live on lowincome, so single mothers and
women facing multiple barriers,so I guess it's just shining a
(27:50):
light on, like you know, there'sobviously a percentage of women
that are single, but they'realso like low income in various
manners.
You know what I mean.
So, right, yeah, but I think,at this stage, though, even
online dating, like you said, soyou didn't have to meet your
person online or anything likethat, right?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
so no, it's something that has always terrified me,
and it's just because I I always, so wait a minute you've never,
never tried you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
You've never tried, never I've never been on a date,
oh wow.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
And my reservations about it are that I always
immediately think people aregood people and like I'm, I, I
would give people time that theyprobably wouldn't deserve.
You know, even my, my bestfriend said to me, jen, you
would get eaten alive on thosehats.
And she's like you have apretty face, so people would
message you and you would benice to everybody.
(28:45):
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, Iwould, I would, and I know that
about myself.
So that kind of scared mebecause I was afraid of letting
in the wrong person, you know,and I just they had.
The biggest reason for me wasthat you can be whoever you want
online.
You can put whatever pictureyou want, you can say whatever
you want about yourself, you cantype whatever you think that
person wants to hear.
So I immediately don't trustyou because I don't know who you
(29:08):
actually are and, like I, Iwould go into the relationship
feeling that way.
So I'm like that's not a goodway to start a relationship
already, not trusting somebodybefore you've even met them.
You know, like that's.
I was like that is not a goodway for me mentally to start a
relationship.
So I was just like you knowwhat, I'm not doing it.
And if I meet someone, great,if not also great, because I
(29:30):
loved being single.
So, yeah, I just I had a fewfriends trying to push me like,
oh, you know, how are you evergonna meet someone?
Like maybe everyone's doing it,you know that that kind of
stuff and I was just like, yeah,no, I can't, I don't want to do
it, and I didn't.
And yeah, I met someone in reallife on a, on a car like, like
(29:50):
surrounded by people of the sameinterest, because it was a
music festival cruise and thisguy was a sound guy for one of
the bands and like I wouldn't, Iprobably would have never met
him if I had been dating allthese dating app people.
You know, like, when he was onthe same thing, he wasn't on the
apps either.
Like he has been on them in thepast.
When he said he went on a fewdates last year and he's like
they were just so terrible thathe was like you know what I'm
(30:12):
done?
I'm just going to be single.
He's just going to be single.
He's the exact same age as me.
He's a month younger than me.
So, yeah, like I don't know,like I think women in their 40s
are very much realizing that,like, being single is peaceful.
But, conversely, there's somemen also starting to kind of
feel that way too.
I think probably fewer, butthere's a lot of women.
(30:34):
Right now there's this bigmovement of protecting your own
peace, you know, and like a lotof women are thinking, you know,
relationships aren'tnecessarily the way to do that,
which I, I agree.
I mean I'm grateful things aregoing well, but I'm still like I
still have that in the back ofmy mind that I was very happy
being single and I would happilybe single again.
No, you know, speaking ill ofthe person I'm dating at all,
(30:56):
but but I think, even just beingsecure enough in myself now to
know that I'm not going to bemiserable and lonely and
desperate if I'm alone, that Ican still thrive and have a
great time and go on trips andconcerts and have friends and
family, that you know otherpeople that can fill my life
with love and fun, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, you know what?
Yeah, speaking of the benefits,so I mean to go back to what
you just said.
So they say the benefits ofsinglehood increase life
satisfaction and happiness,particularly around women in our
age group 40 to 85.
Lower loneliness levelscompared to married women,
especially in older age.
Greater financial independenceand security.
(31:38):
Yeah, so I think it isinteresting to discuss that
because, you know, I thinkthere's this stigma attached to
it, especially because societyexpects us to you know at what,
at this age, you're supposed to,you know, be dating someone.
At this age, you're supposed to, you know, be dating someone.
At this age you're supposed toget married and all these things
.
And I think maybe I'm anonconformist.
(31:58):
I've always been like, notconforming to society's beliefs.
I think I've always been likethat, like, just if you, if
something is expected of me, I'mlike, yeah, same.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, I'm very much the same, like in marriage.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
For me that's like's like yeah, you don't see
yourself getting married.
You're just like I'm notagainst marriage per se.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I don't have a lot of money so, like seeing these you
know hundred thousand dollarweddings that people put on to
me, I'm like man, yeah, thatmoney could go to so many better
things.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right, you're just throwing a big party for your
friends, really but you knowlike, uh, like a vegan
restaurant or something withlike your friends or something,
I don't know, like yeah yeah,like I again not against
marriage.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I've had a lot of fun , uh, really expensive big
weddings and I appreciate allyou know my friends bringing me
to that stuff.
But you know you can.
You can do weddings cheap oryou can just go to the
courthouse.
You don't even have to havelike a party.
But for me that's not like,it's not an end game.
You know, it's not something Iever ever thought like I need to
do this, like it's like again,like you, like I'm like well,
(33:01):
someone told me you got to getmarried and have kids and I'm
like do I though?
Like maybe, maybe I don't haveto do that and you don't have to
do that, and yeah, it's justnot something but it takes.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You don't have to it.
But I think it takes a verystrong minded person to do it
and be okay with it andcommunicate with your family,
because I think I'm sure it'sharder when your family's asking
Like even my grandmother stillasks me now and it's just like
you know.
That's the only.
I think that's the only thingthat makes it difficult with you
(33:36):
.
Are close with certain familymembers and they still ask about
it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
So especially the older generation like, yeah, I
was like that was just what youdid.
You know, like you finishedhigh school and you got married
and then you popped out somekids and that was, that was life
.
Yeah, I think just now, likethere have been times in my life
where, like there was one timewhere, like I had a partner who
wanted to marry me and I wantedto break up with him.
So, you know, like I'm not,like it could have happened for
(34:03):
me, because I'm not saying likeagain, I'm not against it, like
I'm not saying I'll never getmarried, I don't know that, but
it's not.
It's just not a goal for me,it's not something I feel like I
have to do to feel like acomplete person.
You know, and like, and againlike being so content being
single and then going into, likethis relationship I'm in now
like he's the same way, wherehe's like I'm not going to
(34:24):
marriage and I'm like cool meeither and he's like I don't
want kids and we're cool meeither.
Like and that's another thingtoo with dating over the last
four years or starting to talkto people.
I was very upfront with all thatstuff.
I was like I'm not interestedin, like rushing into marriage
or anything I said, and I don'twant kids.
Those are like the two thingsthat I just as a courtesy to
that other person, because ifthey're, if they want those
(34:46):
things, then I'm not the personfor them and that's.
I just wanted to get that outof the way.
But I'm telling you the amountof people that tried to convince
me otherwise, to be like, oh,but like, you know, like you
might regret not having kids, orlike I had one.
One guy have the audacity tosay, oh, but like, if you had
kids with me, it would be finebecause I would be a great dad,
(35:07):
so it wouldn't be much work.
And I was like, I'm sorry, areyou the one growing a human
inside you?
Like what do you mean?
It wouldn't be much work for me.
Like that mentality from likemen particular that I've talked
to over the last four years orso, um, just them trying to
change my mind about thesethings that I'm very firm and
upfront with, because I'm like,if that, if you don't, that, not
(35:29):
you, that's not for you, thenI'm not for you and and that's
fine and I, you know, let's moveon before we get any feelings
involved here.
But there was numerous men whotold me I would change my mind,
or they would make me change mymind, or their kids would be the
best.
And like I, like I just there's.
Oftentimes I didn't know how torespond to that, but usually I
(35:52):
would just like look, I havemade my decision.
I'm telling you this because ifthat's not what you want, let's
just move on.
Like there's a million otherwomen out there who would love
to get married and love to starta family.
That's not me, yeah, it's just.
There's just some people thatjust are not accepted.
Like they can't understand thatthat's actually what I want and
(36:12):
they can't respect that that'sactually what I want and they
can't respect that that'sactually what I want.
They always think, oh, you'rejust, you're doing that to be
because you want to be differentor you want to protect yourself
or whatever, and it's just likeno, this, the life that I
imagine, doesn't involve eitherof those things, and it's very,
very difficult for some peopleto accept because we've all been
instilled with these you knowtimelines and what we're
(36:36):
supposed to have done in life,and I think, like a lot of
people around this age feel thatright now, like they don't have
that that marriage and kidsthing and family, that they're
failing, that they're fallingbehind, which is sad, really,
because then it takes peopleaway from just going out and
enjoying life, you know, becausethey're so worried and
depressed because they don'thave a wife or a husband.
(36:58):
And I wish people like I'm notsaying be like me because, like,
again, I've made my choices andthis is just how I see my life
playing out.
Any other way anyone sees theirlife is fine, but, like, I wish
people would stop being so hardon themselves and putting
pressure to like fit that mold.
Like you being so hard onthemselves and putting pressure
to like fit that mold.
Like you said that, what peopleyou're supposed to be doing?
Because I I have a lot of, youknow, acquaintances that I've
(37:19):
known that have married thewrong person just because they
were like oh, this could be mylast chance.
It's like, no, you got untilyou're dead.
Like, whenever that may be,there's no rush, there's no,
everyone's timelines aredifferent.
Yeah, yeah and yeah, I thinkbeing like 40 is like, it's that
midlife crisis age, you know,like, and I feel that too, like
(37:41):
I'm like, that's the point rightnow where I'm like do I need a
career change?
Like do I want to move?
Like what?
Like you know, and I, I hadthese thoughts and I'm like
where's this coming from?
I'm like it's because I'mhaving my midlife crisis.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I have 25 more years to work.
Like, what am I going to dowith it?
You know Exactly, but you know,I think I don't know if I had
the midlife crisis, but I didhave the health scare and that
kind of makes you it's kind oflike that wake up call.
And you know, speaking of liketimeline, I listened to Mel
Robbins podcast and the onething I appreciate her saying is
, like you know those timelinesthat society expects you.
(38:21):
Like you know, having a houseby the time you're 35, 40.
Like I mean, she's like theaverage person who can own a
home is like so much later on inlife, because that was
different at a different time,and now houses having a house
now is so much harder because inlife, because that was
different at a different time,and now houses having a house
now is so much harder because ofthe market.
And so we have to be likelooking at everything for what
(38:44):
it is in terms of the time rightnow and like being, like you
said, being okay with thesituation that you're in now and
it's it's it's your time.
Like I mean, you know, even me,like you, you're talking about
your career, it's, it's yourtime.
Like I mean, you know even me.
Like you, you're talking aboutyour career.
Like even me too, I was like Ididn't get clarity on where, on
my career choice, until I thinkI was 39, and then it kind of
(39:07):
everything kind of like madesense because, when other people
have, like they see what you'regood at and you don't see what
they're talking about.
I've had, I've had, I've had.
I remember my high schoolteacher and I told a story to
another friend.
But like everyone has adifferent uh journey to get to
and like we're all, we're allgoing on a different path.
(39:27):
Like you know, some peoplefigure it out younger.
Like some people figure it outlike 30, 40, like there's no set
time and like it's, it's, it'shard.
You know, I guess, when youhave these expectations but I
think it it just goes back tothe fact that, like you are
where you're supposed to be andyou're gonna figure it out.
(39:48):
Like just like you're gonnafigure it out and it took you
four years of being on your ownand I think it's good though,
like I mean, because, likethere's a reason why you had to
be single for that amount oftime to discover who you are and
work on yourself, and becauseyou want the person, like the
person that you're with, youwant them to be in that stage of
(40:09):
life too.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Like yeah when you want to be able to present your
best self too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
But I think this is like one of those conversations
where we definitely have to talkmore, but it's it's amazing how
far you've come since you knowwe met like how many years ago
now, like 15 years ago 15 years.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Or was it 2009?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I don't even know 2010.
I years yeah, right, yeah orwas it 2009, I don't even know
2010 I think, yeah, I rememberwhen I was like I'm like, oh my
gosh, I got into humber.
I was so excited too.
Yeah, I left the job.
I go back to college.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
When I was 26, I was like this is great you know, I
was kind of like thinking wellfor me when I was like, oh, I'm
old, like is it gonna?
Am I going to feel weird?
Is there going to be otherpeople in my age group?
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And then we found a cluster of us that were like A
little group of the older people.
Yeah, but we still made friendswith all the 18-year-olds.
Yeah, we did right.
We still talked to a couple ofthem.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah, you still talk to Sabrina.
Do you still talk to her?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Sabrina, the odd time .
Yeah, oh, you do.
Okay, that's like online, likewhatever.
Yeah, I still talk to likeKaran, like a few other people
that we met there.
Yeah, I was.
That was a an interesting timeand that was another thing too.
You know, like most people knewwhat they wanted to do right
out of high school.
I didn't, so I just went towork.
And it wasn't until I was 26and I had been in a career in
(41:35):
finance for five years at thatpoint that I was like, well,
this is not for me, this is notwhat I want to be doing, I'm
miserable.
And then, like just that daywhen that realization was like I
could just do something else, Iapplied for school.
That day, within a week, I hadbeen to the school for an
interview, got accepted and thenquit my job and I was just like
I'm kind of.
At that point now I was like,you know, I would love to go
(41:57):
back to school.
I can't financially do that tomyself again, because I just
paid off my school loans, Ithink last year or the year
before.
So good for you, jen, but Idon't want to go through that
again and I'm like, because Ilove learning, I would love to
go back to school and like trysomething else, and I'm very
(42:18):
interested in a number of things.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
But I'm just like financially.
I don't, I don't know, yeah,well, you know, I feel like with
online now, like if you do someonline courses and stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
The alternative jobs and work.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, exactly Right.
Yeah, it's so cool, though Imean for sure, it's just
whatever you decide to do,that's going to work for you in
the end, right?
But yeah, it's been a greatconversation and I hope we do it
again.
I'm Carlene and this is DivaTonight with Jen Kay.
You can follow her online atInstagram, but I put your link
(42:55):
here for Twitter, which is nowXJPotion, and then you can
listen to her, right?
Sometimes you're like you fillin.
Is that what you do?
I do, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I have a weekly show on 92.9 the Grand and 88.5 the
Lake on Sunday nights 9 tomidnight.
Oh nice, 8 to midnight.
Sorry, I got an extra hour now8 to midnight.
Sorry, I got an extra hour now8 to midnight.
And then, yeah, I fill in swingwhenever I'm needed that's cool
.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
For sure, it's been great.
This has been like sounexpected.
I gotta say I didn't even thinkthis conversation would turn
this way.
But yeah, it's been awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
But yeah, thank you so much oh, thank you and yeah,
gotta have that conversationabout ai sometime for sure, we
definitely do definitely divatonight with carlene.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
We'll be back.
Send us a message on instagramat diva underscore tonight.
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