December 7, 2024 • 40 mins
Sam Rockwell is a mistress of many trades. She shares her story with Divergent Path about struggling with anxiety and depression and how her ADHD diagnosis changed her life. Listen to our discussion about the revelations of how medication can help significantly curb anxiety for people with ADHD and the life changes we both experienced after our official diagnosis.
Check out Sam's favorite organizational tool, the Eisenhower Matrix. Do you have a favorite tool to help with prioritizing tasks? Let us know on Instagram @DivergentPathsConsulting!
About Regina McMenomy Ph.D.
Host of the Divergent Paths Podcast | ADHD & Neurodiversity Advocate | Founder, Divergent Paths Consulting
Welcome to Divergent Paths, a podcast dedicated to exploring life, work, and creativity through the lens of neurodiversity. Hosted by Regina McMenomy. Ph.D., founder of Divergent Paths Consulting, the show delves into the experiences of individuals navigating ADHD and other invisible disabilities. As someone who received a late ADHD diagnosis, Regina brings personal insights and professional expertise to each episode, helping listeners find new ways to thrive in a neurotypical world.
With over 20 years of experience in instructional design, project management, and coaching, Regina is passionate about creating inclusive spaces where neurodiverse individuals can succeed. Through this podcast, Regina shares conversations with experts, professionals, and everyday people, offering tips, strategies, and stories of empowerment.
Tune in to learn how to embrace neurodivergence, redefine success, and chart your own path forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
A few months before the diagnosis was when I really started unmasking a little bit.
(00:09):
It was more so one of those things where I knew work was probably my biggest energy drain
of trying to look like a normal, happy corporate girly and no, I'm complete opposite, like
social interactions.
Ugh, can't do it.
Hello and welcome to Divergent Paz.
(00:42):
I'm your host, Dr. Regina McMenemy.
I am a doctor, but not that kind of doctor.
And this is a podcast, non-medical advice.
Have you always felt a little different, but didn't know why?
Have you struggled with tasks that some people seem to handle with ease?
Are you mystified by social norms and interactions?
Divergent Paz is a podcast for late diagnosed neurodivergent people that explores the joys
(01:06):
and frustrations of having a spicy brain.
In each episode, we'll dive into the unique experiences of discovering an ADHD, autism,
or both diagnosis later in life.
What defines a later in life diagnosis?
Anytime the realization happens outside of the so-called norm of childhood and adolescence.
(01:28):
Sam Rockwell is a silversmith, a gamer, and an anime fan.
We met on threads where we discussed how our perception of our self-worth changed post
ADHD diagnosis.
In this episode, Sam shares her story of struggling with anxiety and depression and how learning
she had a spicy brain changed everything.
(01:51):
I definitely need to get back into it, but I actually love silversmithing and making
jewelry that way.
I taught myself while I was furloughed during the great pandemic and it was super fun.
I had all the time in the world to try a new hobby and it kind of stuck.
(02:12):
So I'm just waiting to clean up my ADHD gremlin cave so I can get back to it.
And that's one where there's a lot of heat involved and you need specific space and specific
tools and so yeah.
The gremlin-ing of other crafting stuff around it might actually be dangerous.
(02:38):
Exactly.
I'm like, this room is a hazard in and of itself.
We do not need to add heat to it.
Do you have a favorite piece that you've created or something that you've done that's been
special that stands out?
So I have one.
It was probably a piece I made that was a little bigger.
I usually like to get more dainty jewelry, but a friend ended up getting it.
(03:04):
But it was this huge moonstone that had these gorgeous rainbow inclusions and I had all
these cool little metal moons I made out of silver to put on.
And it was just very ethereal but ornate.
It was just a very fun piece.
And I thought it was really cool.
Yeah, I'm glad I went to a friend so I can still kind of see it.
Right.
(03:25):
Yeah, it can stay in your life.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Do you get attached to the pieces as you make them sometimes?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like half the time I'll be making them and I'll be like, well, can't sell that one or
sorry, mom, you're not getting that for Christmas.
I'm kidding.
I know you picked this out, but sorry.
I just want to know if you can do that one, mom.
(03:47):
Yes, I have the hardest time.
I did a Halloween collection a few years ago and I was really sad when pieces started selling
because I was like, wait, that's the purpose.
But at the same time, I'm like, they're really cool and I want to keep you.
So yeah, yeah.
Well, you kind of have to kind of find a balance then.
Exactly.
Some of the things and not keep all of them.
(04:08):
Yeah.
That's cool.
That's cool.
So through your life, when did you start to kind of recognize that you were neurodivergent?
Was there like a big event or was it kind of a slow reveal?
Like how to go?
Yeah.
So I want to say it was probably more of like a slow reveal, that nice little slow burn.
(04:29):
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression I think when I was 16.
So I kind of always knew I was a little neurodivergent here and there.
I didn't really, you know, didn't really feel like I fit into the world.
Like it just wasn't made for me and I was like, oh, it's probably just because I'm anxious
(04:52):
all the time or depressed and totally fine.
But I will say a lot of the realization came.
It was maybe a year and a half ago.
So I really hit almost a rock bottom with depression and it was just really, really
tough.
And I joke around that I got a psychiatrist for my 30th birthday to like kind of get that
(05:15):
fixed.
And when I had my first milestone.
The milestone, man, they get you.
Exactly.
I was like, well, better now than later.
So when we started talking, she's kind of like, I suspect you have ADHD, but I can't
diagnose you with this.
So it was, I kid you not, probably about a year till I could actually get my assessment.
(05:38):
Like literally the first appointment she had the referral in and they're like, our first
appointment is 12 months away.
So it was kind of a blessing in disguise.
The more I think about it, because at that time, you know, I thought my depression was
so severe.
You know, we had a good 12 months to really get things in check and I still had all these
(06:03):
symptoms.
But for a while it was like, well, I'm just depressed or I'm anxious, but I'm heavily
medicated and my depression levels are at zero.
My anxiety levels are at zero, but there's still going on.
Yeah.
And that's where I was kind of like, I'm about positive.
(06:25):
I have this and it was, you know, a great experience going through the assessment, had
a great doctor.
But yeah, I say kind of when I hit 30 and all of that stuff culminated and the more
I did research and just talking to my friends that also have gone through the diagnosis
process.
And yeah, it was kind of like, all right, I think we've got it.
(06:47):
And the more and more I learned about myself, I was like, yeah, this something makes sense
here that I have more than just like anxiety and depression going on.
That there is something different.
There's a seed of something different here.
Did you start as you started to kind of come to that self-awareness?
Did you start any self accommodations?
(07:08):
Did you start to change how you were doing things?
Did it, you know, or was it really after the diagnosis?
I would say probably right around the time, a few months before the diagnosis was when
I really started unmasking a little bit.
It was more so one of those things where I knew work was probably my biggest energy drain
(07:32):
of trying to look like a normal, happy corporate girly.
And no, I'm complete opposite, like social interactions.
Can't do it.
So I kind of slowly started just like letting that mask slip a little bit just to find that
balance because work was just so exhausting.
(07:54):
I'd come home and be like, I can't do anything.
So yeah, I kind of around then started making accommodations.
And I even noticed like some of my work wasn't up to par where I'd like it because I, you
know, was kind of letting the ADHD take over at that point and finding that balance.
(08:14):
So I've really started using honestly, this is recent and one of the most helpful tools
I've ever gotten.
It's called an Eisenhower matrix and I use them with work all the time.
It makes me like actually take a step back and really review each of my tasks because
(08:36):
you rate them on important or unimportant and then urgent and non-urgent.
So it really helps, you know, because we all have to work and it's so easy to get lost
in the weeds, especially when like you are neurodivergent.
It is so easy to hyper focus on something that is not important.
(08:56):
So I would say the biggest thing I really started doing after the diagnosis and then
I'm actually going to be pursuing a therapist that specializes in ADHD because it's one
of those things I went my whole life masking.
I don't know how to behave any other way.
(09:17):
And there's counseling before you were masking during it.
So like, yeah, exactly.
It didn't.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I feel like it might have had value, but it didn't.
It wasn't, you know, you dealing with you.
Yeah, exactly.
So I because there's still things that, you know, medication isn't a magic pill.
(09:38):
It's not going to solve everything.
And it's made a huge difference.
But there are still a lot of things that I'm kind of like, oh, I thought, you know, this
might get better, like executive dysfunction, those types of things.
And that's where my psychiatrist was really like, I think a therapist that specializes
in just coping mechanisms is going to be a game changer.
(10:00):
So yeah, I'm going to probably get that started up in the new year and really see how that
goes.
Yeah, that's that's that's really powerful.
And it's really it's really important.
And as someone who has had multiple counselors through my life, I'm only now, you know, I'm
only I've only been diagnosed for a year and I was 49 when I was diagnosed.
(10:22):
So like, like when I talk about late diagnosis, I'm talking I went almost half a century without
a diagnosis.
You know, so like but now I have a counselor who who is versed in this.
And I've done a lot of work dropping my mask and trying to understand who thought what
the authentic pieces of me are.
(10:44):
And that's been I had was already in that process when I found her.
But finding someone who can look at that is it's a very different it's a very different
therapeutic experience to be like with someone who's like, can you stop and tell me why you
just did that?
And I was like, why?
How like I used to get away with this stuff and then get away with it anymore because
(11:04):
like she's clued in right?
It's very different.
Yeah, I'm I'm really looking forward to it.
I really think that's kind of like that last missing puzzle piece that all kind of I don't
want to say feel normal because I don't want to be normal, but kind of feel functional
again.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
To get to a place where you can balance the understanding of your differences with the
(11:28):
ways that you can unmask and where and then you can unmask safely.
Yeah, exactly.
It's a it's a it's a beautiful thing.
I'm so excited.
It's hard, but it is deeply rewarding.
And hopefully, I have you have you noticed?
(11:49):
Let me ask you this because I'm wondering this now.
For me, when I went on the ADHD medication, I had been diagnosed with anxiety and I had
struggled with anxiety my whole life.
My anxiety dropped significantly when I started my stimulant medication.
How are you experiencing like a change in in those symptoms as well now that you have
(12:10):
this figured out?
Yeah, I because I would say my anxiety levels, you know, before I got on the stimulant, it
was, you know, at a one or two, you know, I I had an old therapist that always joked.
She's like, you don't know how to run on anything other than anxious.
Yes.
And, you know, everything clicks.
(12:30):
It's like, yeah, I didn't know how.
Like I couldn't.
So I, you know, my last check in because we're still kind of going through the whole like
dosage.
I'm still going through that, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This whole tweaking and she was like, hey, I don't know if you've noticed this, but you
know, since you started your meds, your anxiety rating has been at a zero consistently, whereas
(12:54):
you always had at least a one or a two.
And I'm like, cool.
All right, we'll take it.
Right.
I'll take it.
Yeah, that's exactly that's very similar to my experience where my anxiety dropped so
significantly that I notice I notice it now.
That's the difference, right?
(13:14):
Because I was like you running on some low level of anxiety.
And I try to explain to people who who are undiagnosed or I have several people in my
life who are resistant to getting diagnosed and resistant to getting medicated, who I
know it would would benefit them greatly to do so.
I try to explain that I had mistaken that low level of anxiety for executive function.
(13:41):
Oh, OK.
Like that's what got me to do things.
Yeah.
Oh, I. Yeah.
That's what got me doing things.
Wasn't that I had a clear plan or clear thinking.
It was the anxiety.
The one to two would start to ramp up toward a three and I would start doing things and
I would not prioritize.
(14:02):
I would not think through.
I would not plan.
I would just start doing things needed to be done.
And so for that was my process.
That was how you know, when I walked in for my assessment and they asked me, he's like,
I can't I'm so excited to talk to you because you have four college degrees and severe ADHD.
Tell me how you did this.
And I was like, I, you know, I would create systems and we talked a little bit about that.
(14:31):
But it took me a while of reflection to step back and say, I mistook my anxiety for executive
functioning until I got on the medication and was able to have the anxiety in my brain
to sort of like ramp down a little bit.
I didn't recognize that there was like literally a difference between this push and pull.
That's wild.
(14:51):
Yeah, because I will say since I've started, you know, my medication, I really am able
to kind of like take a beat and actually think something through before making a decision
because before I would just be like, oh, OK, we got to go do this and we're going to jump
in and it's going to cause way more problems.
(15:12):
But like now I'm actually able to go, OK, we're going to take a pause.
We're going to think about it.
We don't have to make a decision immediately.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's, I would say, one of the other biggest things I've noticed is like my brain, like
my brain function is just so much more clear.
It doesn't feel like there's 10 different tabs open.
(15:35):
One of them has music playing.
I can't find it.
And yeah, like it's just more so like, yes, we're good.
OK, let's evaluate, reevaluate, do what we need and move on.
Right.
Exactly.
Let's let's look at this in a way and we can that just that that point of being able to
take a beat and to be able to step back and not feel like I'm constantly in a reactive
(16:02):
state.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's exactly what it is.
Reaction versus.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
It is.
It is such a it is such a game changer.
I had an added bonus of my nervous system regulates on the stimulant in a way that I
had never had before.
And now I am recognizing that, oh, you know, we're recording this right after, you know,
(16:28):
the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday.
And I had a lot of family stress over the last few days and or over the last week.
And I I'm recognizing that I don't get caught in it like I used to.
Yeah.
Which I think is a combination of the the nervous system regulation of the lack of anxiety.
(16:53):
But I think it's also partially the unmasking because I think part of my mask was built
to to fit me in with other people because I didn't really know how to do that.
Yeah, no, I I get you 100 percent on that.
I yeah, I unfortunately wasn't able to make it home due to sickness for Thanksgiving.
(17:13):
But my mom and I were even chatting and she's like, just coming home, stress you out.
And I'm like, yeah, it does.
Like it's just loud, chaotic.
And you know, when I was little, she always told me because my sister, you know, big into
instruments.
So she's like playing piccolo bagpipe, like the obnoxious ones.
(17:34):
And my mom would be like, just tune it out, just tune it out and always be like, you're
so good at ignoring things.
I was overstimulated and just going out was what it was.
And I explained that to her and she's like, oh, my gosh, that makes so much sense.
So like, how can we make this better when you come home for Christmas type thing?
(17:55):
So great.
Yeah.
Like just being able to recognize the small things and have those candid conversations
has been so helpful.
Yeah, it really is.
It really does make a difference.
It really does.
And I'm glad that I'm glad you have a family that is receptive because, you know, that
is that is a big, that is a big gift.
(18:17):
I am so thankful for them every day.
Like, of course, they joke around.
Like anytime my dad calls, he'll start talking, go squirrel.
Like the whole and yeah, it's hilarious.
And I love it, but I'm very thankful for their support and just kind of being there for me
through this whole journey.
Yeah.
(18:37):
Do you do you find that they recognize how your ADHD has been a strength for you?
Do you recognize how your ADHD has been a strain?
So I think for me, I am a very empathetic person.
And I think a lot of that has stemmed from just being neurodivergent and never feeling
(19:00):
like I fit somewhere.
Right.
So I think one of my biggest strengths is just how I deal with people and how I make
people feel.
And I really attribute that, you know, now looking at like, oh, yeah, I have ADHD, like
this is why.
But just going like I can make someone feel comfortable just.
(19:22):
And my parents have even said that, too.
So it's kind of just they're like, yeah, you're a people person, but you're an introvert.
And I'm like, I feel bad for people and I want everyone.
I don't want anyone to ever have to feel like I feel.
So I've kind of used that as a way to really, you know, just create spaces that anyone feels
(19:42):
safe in.
Yeah, that's great.
That's a beautiful thing.
I feel my my ADHD is similar where I don't want people to feel excluded like I have felt.
So I want to make sure to feel that people feel comfortable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah, I mean, everyone's always like, yeah, it's a superpower.
You can do all these things are hyper focus.
(20:03):
And I'm like, yeah, they're cool.
But until you're working on a craft project and you don't realize it's midnight and you
haven't eaten like I wouldn't call that a superpower.
Yeah, exactly.
That has been my my issue with that as well as I don't I don't like the the storytelling
around that.
Like, yeah, I appreciate where it's trying to turn something that is difficult into a
(20:25):
positive.
And I do feel like there are so many cool things about being neurodivergent.
But it is not, you know, Superman can turn on and off his flying.
He can choose.
Yep.
Exactly.
I do not always get to choose the hyper focus.
(20:49):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Oh, yeah.
I always have to be careful when I take my meds in the morning.
It's like I have to make sure I'm working on what I want to be like zoned in on because
yeah, when they kick in.
Yeah.
If I'm on my phone, I will be on my phone for a.
Yep.
Yep.
(21:09):
I know I'm trying to break myself of the habit of being on my phone first thing in the morning
just at all, because I know I know the research and I know that it you know, whatever you're
doing, you know, you said that is your dopamine reward first thing in the morning.
This is what you want to keep coming back to.
And it's so hard to be in a society that is like becoming more and more dependent on our
pocket friends as you know, reliant for so much of our lives.
(21:35):
Yeah.
Oh, 100%.
Yeah, it's to not just already feel that way, but when I set my brain to it, like I have
learned and I've done this for years because I worked from home for a long time.
But I if I sit down on my couch to have a cup of coffee, like sometimes I'm like, I'll
have an easy, easy morning.
I'll ease myself into my day and I'll sit down on my couch.
(21:56):
But like sitting on my couch is also where I check out most of the time.
And so if I sit down and have a cup of coffee and I pick up and I open TikTok, we're done.
Yep.
Oh, I.
We don't get back to it.
I call that the big sit.
And if I have a big sit, nothing else is getting done.
So right.
Yeah, it's.
Yeah.
(22:17):
So my breakfast has to go from my kitchen to my desk and I can have my cup of coffee
and I can kind of muck around and I don't have to like, you know, immediately dive into
the big task.
But I do have to like be here and be, you know, these are the steps that we get into,
you know, you doing the work.
And yeah.
And like if my ADHD brain could just be a little less unruly sometimes, it would be
(22:43):
great.
I would be fantastic.
Oh, I got you a hundred percent.
Like, yeah, I for me, sometimes like with that whole like sitting down, everyone always
because I'm hybrid.
A lot of people will be like, you know, why do you eat your lunch?
Like you should be shouldn't eat your lunch at your desk.
And I'm like, if I don't, I will not come back to this desk.
(23:09):
Like it has to be here.
Yeah.
Or if I do come back, I can't I can't get back to the level of focus I had before.
Like I can't I can't I don't I don't stop there and pick up where I was.
I stop and I pick up where I was when I sat down at breakfast.
Yeah.
And you know, and needed that like ramping up time.
And then that that loses that loses my, you know, my productivity window, which, you know,
(23:35):
exactly because I, you know, days I'm in the office, you know, love my co workers and they'll
be like, yeah, come get lunch.
And I'm like, no, things I need to get done today and they will not.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like have fun.
I'll be here.
Yeah.
(23:55):
Well, and it's good you kind of learned that about yourself.
Is that some of like, what do you feel are the challenges you faced?
Like what is it?
What are some of the things other than just not understanding what executive functioning
is or anxiety and all of those stuff?
I so for me, I mean, I guess I could I guess I need to rewind a little bit too.
(24:18):
So like before COVID, I was in the office five days a week and come home exhausted,
literally on the couch, couldn't do anything.
COVID came fully remote.
I was actually able to function a lot better where it's like, you know, I'm doing laundry.
(24:39):
I'm actually keeping things clean.
You know, there's a routine, but there's not really a routine.
Right.
And then we started going hybrid and that false routine really just crumbled where I'm
back to masking half the time.
I'm exhausted.
You come back after work or even just, you know, an at home day is very I'm trying to
(25:05):
recover like active recovery while working.
Then it's the weekend and physically I might feel fine, but mentally I cannot for the life
of me do something.
It'll just be that whole functional freeze.
Yeah.
And I won't be able to function.
(25:26):
And I've always been like, I feel lazy or garbage like a garbage person.
No.
And which I've learned I'm not.
It's just my brain.
Yeah.
Brain's a jerk.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I think the best thing I ever heard was if you were being lazy, you'd be having fun.
Right.
And I'm not having fun.
(25:47):
It's like I'm not having fun.
Like I want to do these things.
I just cannot.
Yeah, that's such a good insight to like I've heard something similar.
I've heard that, but I've also heard something similar.
(26:07):
It's like if I had a choice, I would choose.
I wouldn't choose this.
I don't choose to have anxiety about making phone calls.
I wish that I have to make a phone call after our interview.
So this is why this is hot for me right now.
(26:29):
Good luck.
Right.
I'm like, oh God, I have to do that.
And I put it off yesterday and it needs to be done today.
So I need to do it and I know I need to do it.
But if I had the capacity to just do it, I would.
It's not that I am willfully this way.
(26:50):
And that's been liberating and frustrating at the same time because I can recognize it
in myself, but at the same time, I can't really change it.
Exactly.
That was one of the things I was hoping when I got medicated, things would get better.
And I'm like, no, no, it hasn't.
(27:11):
But you know, it's all good.
We're learning.
We'll find ways to make it work and we'll just keep tracking on.
But yeah, it's kind of funny.
Like the tasks that are painful, brushing my teeth before bed.
Don't know why.
Can't make myself do it.
That is the one thing I have to fight myself to do.
(27:32):
Like, it's yeah, it's the weirdest thing.
I don't know why.
I love having clean teeth, but no.
But just the PDA kicks in of like you have to do this at bedtime and like which, you
know, technically it is the most important time to brush your teeth.
You're only going to brush your teeth once a day.
Brush your teeth at night.
Exactly.
Exactly.
(27:52):
Get all the crud from the day off.
I'm like, this is disgusting, but no, we can't.
Brain says no.
So interesting.
Yeah.
I struggle with washing my face at bedtime.
Like I always want to be like, you know, I don't want to do this.
And I did have my optometrist tell me that if I didn't take my makeup off, I was going
to lose the capacity to wear contact lenses.
(28:13):
So I really needed to like do this.
So that has been a very great motivator.
Let me tell you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, thank you for framing it that way because now I have a why.
Right?
Yeah.
I always try and do that where it's like you could lose your teeth.
Like you got to do it.
So being able to recognize it has helped.
Do I do it every night?
(28:34):
No.
Like I'm exposing myself here, but like, you know, progress is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't get my eye makeup off every day.
I know I woke up a couple of days ago and I'm like, Oh God, I know what she means now
because I've been better.
And I'm like, Oh, now I see.
Right.
I don't wake up like feeling like this.
My eyes don't feel like this when I do take my makeup off.
So of course this, yes, we do need to do this, but I still have to fight myself.
(28:55):
Yeah.
And I love the, I love the advice that is like break things into smaller steps and all
this, but still like if you can't get going on that first step, sometimes it doesn't really
matter.
It doesn't really matter.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I'm like, if my brain is saying no, I really wish I could do something about it.
(29:16):
Right.
I really wish I could change this, but no, like, you know, this is the wall and we have
hit it.
That's what we're going to deal with.
And I'll always be like, we'll try again tomorrow.
No promise.
Yeah.
It's, yeah, it's been a, it's been a fun ride.
Just trying to be graceful with myself, I think is a big thing.
(29:41):
And give yourself grace, especially with, I think all of us with, with late diagnosis
need to recognize and, and extend ourselves grace that you're, you're operating on hard
mode and didn't know it and didn't recognize it and didn't know that like, you know, burnout
is real and probably on some level of burnout my whole life and just didn't really know
(30:04):
it until now.
Cause now I know when I'm heading into it and I can pull myself back, but you know,
I just didn't, I didn't recognize that before.
So how I, I, I'm going to extrapolate a little bit from what we've been talking about.
I think, I feel like your diagnosis has been empowering and has allowed you to kind of
(30:25):
like change your daily life.
Yeah.
You have some examples of like maybe some little things that have been really, have
had really great impact for you.
Yeah.
So again, mentioning the Eisenhower matrix, that was like, can you explain what that,
can you explain what that is in a little bit more detail?
(30:45):
So it's basically four boxes and what you're going to do is you're going to take your to-do
list and you're going to rank each item.
I could never do to-do lists.
I'd get way too overwhelmed because, yeah, I get the same way.
It's so hard to find, like see what's urgent, but this actually forces you to take a step
(31:07):
back and go, okay, hey, these are critical path things that need to get done.
So I'll kind of use something from work as an example of we need to get this in to run
an experiment.
So that's going to be important and urgent.
Whereas, you know, maybe putting a sample order in for something else would be, it's
(31:31):
important, but it's not urgent.
So you would go through your list and you'd rank everything if it's important or not important.
And then you would go through and do it again if it's urgent or not urgent.
So then you kind of just place those into the boxes where, you know, urgent, important,
get those done right away.
(31:52):
Important, not as urgent.
And then the ones that are not important and not urgent, don't even think about them.
So it's really, I mean, yeah.
And even just with like trying to do chores around the house too, it's really helped to
break down like, this is the most critical thing I need to do to make these other actions
(32:13):
happen.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like identifying, that's always, that is definitely one of the biggest challenges that I face too.
It's like, oh, I have, you know, a whole household to take care of.
Like what are the things that I need to urgently take care of?
Well, if you don't make sure that the cats are fed, then they're going to wake you up
at four o'clock in the morning and you don't want that.
(32:34):
Right.
Exactly.
So that's, that's been a big game changer.
I will say the other thing is I got myself a little whiteboard that is magnetic and sticks
to my fridge.
I very much so am the person of, if I don't see it, it does not exist.
So I've really been, it's been so helpful.
(32:55):
I literally will just write down everything that's in my fridge, everything that's in
my freezer.
I'll, you know, like mark it off if I've eaten it all or like change quantities.
Because I literally would go to the store and be like, oh, I need to get more like garlic
and come home and already have three things of garlic.
Yes.
So it's been a really nice tool for me to go, oh, I don't have to like stand here in
(33:19):
front of the fridge and go, I need to feed myself.
What am I feeding myself?
I can see literally on that board.
Oh, I have this, this is super easy.
I can make this tonight or just helping with meal planning.
Because I mean, being neurodivergent and feeding yourself is, that's one of my biggest challenges.
(33:40):
I just said that to somebody the other day.
I'm like, the fact that I have to like figure out food every day, multiple times a day,
like why?
Who came up with this plan?
And can I talk to them please?
Because I'm just crap.
Exactly.
I'm just like, I'd like to have a word and.
Right.
I will open my fridge and I will be like, I hate everything in here.
(34:03):
Why?
Yeah.
And I will say it's made eating a lot easier where it's just like, oh, hey, I have different
options and I try and keep things that are going to be easier to just like really low
maintenance of like, here's some sheet pan veggies.
Let's throw them in and you've got, I used to always want to be one of those like super
(34:27):
healthy, fresh people, but I'm like, I'm going to forget it's there.
It's going to go bad.
We're just going to contribute to food waste and we're just going to do things that work
for us.
So yeah, I have been deeply embracing frozen veggies and what I can do with that and my
big hack for that is frozen rice, frozen rice packets that you can get at Trader Joe's and
(34:52):
you heat them up in the microwave and it takes three minutes because it's like, oh, I would
love to eat rice, but like I can't prepare myself to cook it 30 minutes ahead of time
because I go into the kitchen and I'm hungry usually.
That's what gets me in the air.
It's that I'm hungry and like 30 minutes to cook rice is something that's, you know, even
you know, 10 or 12 minutes to cook pasta or whatever to boil the water takes too long
(35:15):
sometimes.
So those three, you know, three minute packs of rice that I can throw in and I can throw
some frozen spinach in and throw in the microwave and heat up with black beans or other things.
And, you know, I try to have a protein prep.
I haven't done that in a long time, but you know, things like that, that can be done quickly.
Yes.
(35:36):
Yeah.
And I used to be like, yeah, I'm going to meal prep.
It's going to be great.
And I would literally eat one serving of it and be like, I am so turned off from this.
I hate this.
I hate this.
I never want to eat this again.
And I'm just like, no, that's not us.
It doesn't work for us.
And that's okay.
Exactly.
That's kind of really been one of the big things of like realizing it's okay.
(36:00):
I don't have to be like everyone else.
Right.
And that's fine.
That should be the beauty that we have, you know, being neurodivergent, having a divergent
path that we're on.
Like that should be the beauty of it.
And we don't really have to have this one size fits all way to do things.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of messaging.
(36:21):
There is a lot of narrative that is, hey, you need to be this way to be productive.
And it's like, you know what?
I write better at nighttime.
Like I'm sorry, but I will like be able to do great work at 10 o'clock at night sometimes
because that's when my brain will just be like, okay, we can write right now.
Like I sent you the notes for today because I finally got the motivation and the focus
(36:43):
to address things at 10 o'clock last night.
And I was like, okay, at least, you know, okay, this is when this is happening.
We're going to go with it, you know, and you have to adapt.
Yeah.
So as we wrap up, if you were to kind of look back on your life a little bit and you were
to have a conversation with a younger undiagnosed version of yourself, what would you tell that
(37:08):
version?
It can't be the diagnosis, but like, what would you tell them?
It's okay.
Like the world isn't ending because everything always felt so black and white.
Yes.
Where it again, kind of going back to that whole anxiety thing of we have to do it now,
(37:29):
everything felt very black and white then.
And I, again, it was, you know, you're always told like, it's good to be different.
It's fine, but like, actually believe it.
Like do not just write it off.
Be weird and unapologetically weird because you're going to feel so much better.
Yes.
(37:49):
I love that.
Yeah.
It, because I will say like now that I've started unmasking more, it's, I'm not as
tired.
Like that exhaustion is not there.
And so much.
I would love to tell little me, just do it.
Like there's nothing wrong with it.
(38:10):
If someone thinks you're weird, they weren't worth having in your life to begin with.
So that's that problem.
Not yours.
Yeah, exactly.
So that's, that's kind of what I would go back and say is the world's not ending and
just be weird.
Like don't, don't try and fit in.
And I think just looking back, that was always something I tried to do despite trying to
(38:35):
be cool and saying I wasn't, but yeah.
Yeah.
Well that, that drive to fit in is really powerful and it is really, you know, and it
is a survival, it's a survival instinct and those are hard to, hard to, hard to fight.
ADHD brains are survival instincts as well.
Like just the fact that we exist.
(38:56):
Exactly.
So yeah.
Great.
Lovely.
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today.
Let our listeners know, like where can they find you if they want to talk with you or
you have some projects you might want to share?
Yeah.
So you can always find me on, I have like multiple Instagrams because again, I have
(39:17):
multiple hobbies that come up at different times.
So you can find me at sa.ro.studio.
That's where I've been most active lately.
It's also connected to my threads.
So I would say that's kind of where I've been the weirdest lately and felt the best.
(39:37):
And yeah, if anyone wants to join my little corner of the internet, I'd love to have them.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
I really enjoyed this.
A huge thank you to Sam for joining me on the show today and sharing her story.
(39:58):
I love the empowerment that comes from embracing having a spicy brain.
And Sam's story highlights that so beautifully.
Thank you so much for listening.
Make sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen, like and leave a review and share
with your spicy brain friends.
Follow us on Instagram at Divergent Paths Consulting.
(40:19):
No spaces.
And until next time, stay spicy.
A few months before the diagnosis was when I really started unmasking a little bit.
(00:09):
It was more so one of those things where I knew work was probably my biggest energy drain
of trying to look like a normal, happy corporate girly and no, I'm complete opposite, like
social interactions.
Ugh, can't do it.
Hello and welcome to Divergent Paz.
(00:42):
I'm your host, Dr. Regina McMenemy.
I am a doctor, but not that kind of doctor.
And this is a podcast, non-medical advice.
Have you always felt a little different, but didn't know why?
Have you struggled with tasks that some people seem to handle with ease?
Are you mystified by social norms and interactions?
Divergent Paz is a podcast for late diagnosed neurodivergent people that explores the joys
(01:06):
and frustrations of having a spicy brain.
In each episode, we'll dive into the unique experiences of discovering an ADHD, autism,
or both diagnosis later in life.
What defines a later in life diagnosis?
Anytime the realization happens outside of the so-called norm of childhood and adolescence.
(01:28):
Sam Rockwell is a silversmith, a gamer, and an anime fan.
We met on threads where we discussed how our perception of our self-worth changed post
ADHD diagnosis.
In this episode, Sam shares her story of struggling with anxiety and depression and how learning
she had a spicy brain changed everything.
(01:51):
I definitely need to get back into it, but I actually love silversmithing and making
jewelry that way.
I taught myself while I was furloughed during the great pandemic and it was super fun.
I had all the time in the world to try a new hobby and it kind of stuck.
(02:12):
So I'm just waiting to clean up my ADHD gremlin cave so I can get back to it.
And that's one where there's a lot of heat involved and you need specific space and specific
tools and so yeah.
The gremlin-ing of other crafting stuff around it might actually be dangerous.
(02:38):
Exactly.
I'm like, this room is a hazard in and of itself.
We do not need to add heat to it.
Do you have a favorite piece that you've created or something that you've done that's been
special that stands out?
So I have one.
It was probably a piece I made that was a little bigger.
I usually like to get more dainty jewelry, but a friend ended up getting it.
(03:04):
But it was this huge moonstone that had these gorgeous rainbow inclusions and I had all
these cool little metal moons I made out of silver to put on.
And it was just very ethereal but ornate.
It was just a very fun piece.
And I thought it was really cool.
Yeah, I'm glad I went to a friend so I can still kind of see it.
Right.
(03:25):
Yeah, it can stay in your life.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Do you get attached to the pieces as you make them sometimes?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like half the time I'll be making them and I'll be like, well, can't sell that one or
sorry, mom, you're not getting that for Christmas.
I'm kidding.
I know you picked this out, but sorry.
I just want to know if you can do that one, mom.
(03:47):
Yes, I have the hardest time.
I did a Halloween collection a few years ago and I was really sad when pieces started selling
because I was like, wait, that's the purpose.
But at the same time, I'm like, they're really cool and I want to keep you.
So yeah, yeah.
Well, you kind of have to kind of find a balance then.
Exactly.
Some of the things and not keep all of them.
(04:08):
Yeah.
That's cool.
That's cool.
So through your life, when did you start to kind of recognize that you were neurodivergent?
Was there like a big event or was it kind of a slow reveal?
Like how to go?
Yeah.
So I want to say it was probably more of like a slow reveal, that nice little slow burn.
(04:29):
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression I think when I was 16.
So I kind of always knew I was a little neurodivergent here and there.
I didn't really, you know, didn't really feel like I fit into the world.
Like it just wasn't made for me and I was like, oh, it's probably just because I'm anxious
(04:52):
all the time or depressed and totally fine.
But I will say a lot of the realization came.
It was maybe a year and a half ago.
So I really hit almost a rock bottom with depression and it was just really, really
tough.
And I joke around that I got a psychiatrist for my 30th birthday to like kind of get that
(05:15):
fixed.
And when I had my first milestone.
The milestone, man, they get you.
Exactly.
I was like, well, better now than later.
So when we started talking, she's kind of like, I suspect you have ADHD, but I can't
diagnose you with this.
So it was, I kid you not, probably about a year till I could actually get my assessment.
(05:38):
Like literally the first appointment she had the referral in and they're like, our first
appointment is 12 months away.
So it was kind of a blessing in disguise.
The more I think about it, because at that time, you know, I thought my depression was
so severe.
You know, we had a good 12 months to really get things in check and I still had all these
(06:03):
symptoms.
But for a while it was like, well, I'm just depressed or I'm anxious, but I'm heavily
medicated and my depression levels are at zero.
My anxiety levels are at zero, but there's still going on.
Yeah.
And that's where I was kind of like, I'm about positive.
(06:25):
I have this and it was, you know, a great experience going through the assessment, had
a great doctor.
But yeah, I say kind of when I hit 30 and all of that stuff culminated and the more
I did research and just talking to my friends that also have gone through the diagnosis
process.
And yeah, it was kind of like, all right, I think we've got it.
(06:47):
And the more and more I learned about myself, I was like, yeah, this something makes sense
here that I have more than just like anxiety and depression going on.
That there is something different.
There's a seed of something different here.
Did you start as you started to kind of come to that self-awareness?
Did you start any self accommodations?
(07:08):
Did you start to change how you were doing things?
Did it, you know, or was it really after the diagnosis?
I would say probably right around the time, a few months before the diagnosis was when
I really started unmasking a little bit.
It was more so one of those things where I knew work was probably my biggest energy drain
(07:32):
of trying to look like a normal, happy corporate girly.
And no, I'm complete opposite, like social interactions.
Can't do it.
So I kind of slowly started just like letting that mask slip a little bit just to find that
balance because work was just so exhausting.
(07:54):
I'd come home and be like, I can't do anything.
So yeah, I kind of around then started making accommodations.
And I even noticed like some of my work wasn't up to par where I'd like it because I, you
know, was kind of letting the ADHD take over at that point and finding that balance.
(08:14):
So I've really started using honestly, this is recent and one of the most helpful tools
I've ever gotten.
It's called an Eisenhower matrix and I use them with work all the time.
It makes me like actually take a step back and really review each of my tasks because
(08:36):
you rate them on important or unimportant and then urgent and non-urgent.
So it really helps, you know, because we all have to work and it's so easy to get lost
in the weeds, especially when like you are neurodivergent.
It is so easy to hyper focus on something that is not important.
(08:56):
So I would say the biggest thing I really started doing after the diagnosis and then
I'm actually going to be pursuing a therapist that specializes in ADHD because it's one
of those things I went my whole life masking.
I don't know how to behave any other way.
(09:17):
And there's counseling before you were masking during it.
So like, yeah, exactly.
It didn't.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I feel like it might have had value, but it didn't.
It wasn't, you know, you dealing with you.
Yeah, exactly.
So I because there's still things that, you know, medication isn't a magic pill.
(09:38):
It's not going to solve everything.
And it's made a huge difference.
But there are still a lot of things that I'm kind of like, oh, I thought, you know, this
might get better, like executive dysfunction, those types of things.
And that's where my psychiatrist was really like, I think a therapist that specializes
in just coping mechanisms is going to be a game changer.
(10:00):
So yeah, I'm going to probably get that started up in the new year and really see how that
goes.
Yeah, that's that's that's really powerful.
And it's really it's really important.
And as someone who has had multiple counselors through my life, I'm only now, you know, I'm
only I've only been diagnosed for a year and I was 49 when I was diagnosed.
(10:22):
So like, like when I talk about late diagnosis, I'm talking I went almost half a century without
a diagnosis.
You know, so like but now I have a counselor who who is versed in this.
And I've done a lot of work dropping my mask and trying to understand who thought what
the authentic pieces of me are.
(10:44):
And that's been I had was already in that process when I found her.
But finding someone who can look at that is it's a very different it's a very different
therapeutic experience to be like with someone who's like, can you stop and tell me why you
just did that?
And I was like, why?
How like I used to get away with this stuff and then get away with it anymore because
(11:04):
like she's clued in right?
It's very different.
Yeah, I'm I'm really looking forward to it.
I really think that's kind of like that last missing puzzle piece that all kind of I don't
want to say feel normal because I don't want to be normal, but kind of feel functional
again.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
To get to a place where you can balance the understanding of your differences with the
(11:28):
ways that you can unmask and where and then you can unmask safely.
Yeah, exactly.
It's a it's a it's a beautiful thing.
I'm so excited.
It's hard, but it is deeply rewarding.
And hopefully, I have you have you noticed?
(11:49):
Let me ask you this because I'm wondering this now.
For me, when I went on the ADHD medication, I had been diagnosed with anxiety and I had
struggled with anxiety my whole life.
My anxiety dropped significantly when I started my stimulant medication.
How are you experiencing like a change in in those symptoms as well now that you have
(12:10):
this figured out?
Yeah, I because I would say my anxiety levels, you know, before I got on the stimulant, it
was, you know, at a one or two, you know, I I had an old therapist that always joked.
She's like, you don't know how to run on anything other than anxious.
Yes.
And, you know, everything clicks.
(12:30):
It's like, yeah, I didn't know how.
Like I couldn't.
So I, you know, my last check in because we're still kind of going through the whole like
dosage.
I'm still going through that, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This whole tweaking and she was like, hey, I don't know if you've noticed this, but you
know, since you started your meds, your anxiety rating has been at a zero consistently, whereas
(12:54):
you always had at least a one or a two.
And I'm like, cool.
All right, we'll take it.
Right.
I'll take it.
Yeah, that's exactly that's very similar to my experience where my anxiety dropped so
significantly that I notice I notice it now.
That's the difference, right?
(13:14):
Because I was like you running on some low level of anxiety.
And I try to explain to people who who are undiagnosed or I have several people in my
life who are resistant to getting diagnosed and resistant to getting medicated, who I
know it would would benefit them greatly to do so.
I try to explain that I had mistaken that low level of anxiety for executive function.
(13:41):
Oh, OK.
Like that's what got me to do things.
Yeah.
Oh, I. Yeah.
That's what got me doing things.
Wasn't that I had a clear plan or clear thinking.
It was the anxiety.
The one to two would start to ramp up toward a three and I would start doing things and
I would not prioritize.
(14:02):
I would not think through.
I would not plan.
I would just start doing things needed to be done.
And so for that was my process.
That was how you know, when I walked in for my assessment and they asked me, he's like,
I can't I'm so excited to talk to you because you have four college degrees and severe ADHD.
Tell me how you did this.
And I was like, I, you know, I would create systems and we talked a little bit about that.
(14:31):
But it took me a while of reflection to step back and say, I mistook my anxiety for executive
functioning until I got on the medication and was able to have the anxiety in my brain
to sort of like ramp down a little bit.
I didn't recognize that there was like literally a difference between this push and pull.
That's wild.
(14:51):
Yeah, because I will say since I've started, you know, my medication, I really am able
to kind of like take a beat and actually think something through before making a decision
because before I would just be like, oh, OK, we got to go do this and we're going to jump
in and it's going to cause way more problems.
(15:12):
But like now I'm actually able to go, OK, we're going to take a pause.
We're going to think about it.
We don't have to make a decision immediately.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's, I would say, one of the other biggest things I've noticed is like my brain, like
my brain function is just so much more clear.
It doesn't feel like there's 10 different tabs open.
(15:35):
One of them has music playing.
I can't find it.
And yeah, like it's just more so like, yes, we're good.
OK, let's evaluate, reevaluate, do what we need and move on.
Right.
Exactly.
Let's let's look at this in a way and we can that just that that point of being able to
take a beat and to be able to step back and not feel like I'm constantly in a reactive
(16:02):
state.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's exactly what it is.
Reaction versus.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
It is.
It is such a it is such a game changer.
I had an added bonus of my nervous system regulates on the stimulant in a way that I
had never had before.
And now I am recognizing that, oh, you know, we're recording this right after, you know,
(16:28):
the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday.
And I had a lot of family stress over the last few days and or over the last week.
And I I'm recognizing that I don't get caught in it like I used to.
Yeah.
Which I think is a combination of the the nervous system regulation of the lack of anxiety.
(16:53):
But I think it's also partially the unmasking because I think part of my mask was built
to to fit me in with other people because I didn't really know how to do that.
Yeah, no, I I get you 100 percent on that.
I yeah, I unfortunately wasn't able to make it home due to sickness for Thanksgiving.
(17:13):
But my mom and I were even chatting and she's like, just coming home, stress you out.
And I'm like, yeah, it does.
Like it's just loud, chaotic.
And you know, when I was little, she always told me because my sister, you know, big into
instruments.
So she's like playing piccolo bagpipe, like the obnoxious ones.
(17:34):
And my mom would be like, just tune it out, just tune it out and always be like, you're
so good at ignoring things.
I was overstimulated and just going out was what it was.
And I explained that to her and she's like, oh, my gosh, that makes so much sense.
So like, how can we make this better when you come home for Christmas type thing?
(17:55):
So great.
Yeah.
Like just being able to recognize the small things and have those candid conversations
has been so helpful.
Yeah, it really is.
It really does make a difference.
It really does.
And I'm glad that I'm glad you have a family that is receptive because, you know, that
is that is a big, that is a big gift.
(18:17):
I am so thankful for them every day.
Like, of course, they joke around.
Like anytime my dad calls, he'll start talking, go squirrel.
Like the whole and yeah, it's hilarious.
And I love it, but I'm very thankful for their support and just kind of being there for me
through this whole journey.
Yeah.
(18:37):
Do you do you find that they recognize how your ADHD has been a strength for you?
Do you recognize how your ADHD has been a strain?
So I think for me, I am a very empathetic person.
And I think a lot of that has stemmed from just being neurodivergent and never feeling
(19:00):
like I fit somewhere.
Right.
So I think one of my biggest strengths is just how I deal with people and how I make
people feel.
And I really attribute that, you know, now looking at like, oh, yeah, I have ADHD, like
this is why.
But just going like I can make someone feel comfortable just.
(19:22):
And my parents have even said that, too.
So it's kind of just they're like, yeah, you're a people person, but you're an introvert.
And I'm like, I feel bad for people and I want everyone.
I don't want anyone to ever have to feel like I feel.
So I've kind of used that as a way to really, you know, just create spaces that anyone feels
(19:42):
safe in.
Yeah, that's great.
That's a beautiful thing.
I feel my my ADHD is similar where I don't want people to feel excluded like I have felt.
So I want to make sure to feel that people feel comfortable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah, I mean, everyone's always like, yeah, it's a superpower.
You can do all these things are hyper focus.
(20:03):
And I'm like, yeah, they're cool.
But until you're working on a craft project and you don't realize it's midnight and you
haven't eaten like I wouldn't call that a superpower.
Yeah, exactly.
That has been my my issue with that as well as I don't I don't like the the storytelling
around that.
Like, yeah, I appreciate where it's trying to turn something that is difficult into a
(20:25):
positive.
And I do feel like there are so many cool things about being neurodivergent.
But it is not, you know, Superman can turn on and off his flying.
He can choose.
Yep.
Exactly.
I do not always get to choose the hyper focus.
(20:49):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Oh, yeah.
I always have to be careful when I take my meds in the morning.
It's like I have to make sure I'm working on what I want to be like zoned in on because
yeah, when they kick in.
Yeah.
If I'm on my phone, I will be on my phone for a.
Yep.
Yep.
(21:09):
I know I'm trying to break myself of the habit of being on my phone first thing in the morning
just at all, because I know I know the research and I know that it you know, whatever you're
doing, you know, you said that is your dopamine reward first thing in the morning.
This is what you want to keep coming back to.
And it's so hard to be in a society that is like becoming more and more dependent on our
pocket friends as you know, reliant for so much of our lives.
(21:35):
Yeah.
Oh, 100%.
Yeah, it's to not just already feel that way, but when I set my brain to it, like I have
learned and I've done this for years because I worked from home for a long time.
But I if I sit down on my couch to have a cup of coffee, like sometimes I'm like, I'll
have an easy, easy morning.
I'll ease myself into my day and I'll sit down on my couch.
(21:56):
But like sitting on my couch is also where I check out most of the time.
And so if I sit down and have a cup of coffee and I pick up and I open TikTok, we're done.
Yep.
Oh, I.
We don't get back to it.
I call that the big sit.
And if I have a big sit, nothing else is getting done.
So right.
Yeah, it's.
Yeah.
(22:17):
So my breakfast has to go from my kitchen to my desk and I can have my cup of coffee
and I can kind of muck around and I don't have to like, you know, immediately dive into
the big task.
But I do have to like be here and be, you know, these are the steps that we get into,
you know, you doing the work.
And yeah.
And like if my ADHD brain could just be a little less unruly sometimes, it would be
(22:43):
great.
I would be fantastic.
Oh, I got you a hundred percent.
Like, yeah, I for me, sometimes like with that whole like sitting down, everyone always
because I'm hybrid.
A lot of people will be like, you know, why do you eat your lunch?
Like you should be shouldn't eat your lunch at your desk.
And I'm like, if I don't, I will not come back to this desk.
(23:09):
Like it has to be here.
Yeah.
Or if I do come back, I can't I can't get back to the level of focus I had before.
Like I can't I can't I don't I don't stop there and pick up where I was.
I stop and I pick up where I was when I sat down at breakfast.
Yeah.
And you know, and needed that like ramping up time.
And then that that loses that loses my, you know, my productivity window, which, you know,
(23:35):
exactly because I, you know, days I'm in the office, you know, love my co workers and they'll
be like, yeah, come get lunch.
And I'm like, no, things I need to get done today and they will not.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like have fun.
I'll be here.
Yeah.
(23:55):
Well, and it's good you kind of learned that about yourself.
Is that some of like, what do you feel are the challenges you faced?
Like what is it?
What are some of the things other than just not understanding what executive functioning
is or anxiety and all of those stuff?
I so for me, I mean, I guess I could I guess I need to rewind a little bit too.
(24:18):
So like before COVID, I was in the office five days a week and come home exhausted,
literally on the couch, couldn't do anything.
COVID came fully remote.
I was actually able to function a lot better where it's like, you know, I'm doing laundry.
(24:39):
I'm actually keeping things clean.
You know, there's a routine, but there's not really a routine.
Right.
And then we started going hybrid and that false routine really just crumbled where I'm
back to masking half the time.
I'm exhausted.
You come back after work or even just, you know, an at home day is very I'm trying to
(25:05):
recover like active recovery while working.
Then it's the weekend and physically I might feel fine, but mentally I cannot for the life
of me do something.
It'll just be that whole functional freeze.
Yeah.
And I won't be able to function.
(25:26):
And I've always been like, I feel lazy or garbage like a garbage person.
No.
And which I've learned I'm not.
It's just my brain.
Yeah.
Brain's a jerk.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I think the best thing I ever heard was if you were being lazy, you'd be having fun.
Right.
And I'm not having fun.
(25:47):
It's like I'm not having fun.
Like I want to do these things.
I just cannot.
Yeah, that's such a good insight to like I've heard something similar.
I've heard that, but I've also heard something similar.
(26:07):
It's like if I had a choice, I would choose.
I wouldn't choose this.
I don't choose to have anxiety about making phone calls.
I wish that I have to make a phone call after our interview.
So this is why this is hot for me right now.
(26:29):
Good luck.
Right.
I'm like, oh God, I have to do that.
And I put it off yesterday and it needs to be done today.
So I need to do it and I know I need to do it.
But if I had the capacity to just do it, I would.
It's not that I am willfully this way.
(26:50):
And that's been liberating and frustrating at the same time because I can recognize it
in myself, but at the same time, I can't really change it.
Exactly.
That was one of the things I was hoping when I got medicated, things would get better.
And I'm like, no, no, it hasn't.
(27:11):
But you know, it's all good.
We're learning.
We'll find ways to make it work and we'll just keep tracking on.
But yeah, it's kind of funny.
Like the tasks that are painful, brushing my teeth before bed.
Don't know why.
Can't make myself do it.
That is the one thing I have to fight myself to do.
(27:32):
Like, it's yeah, it's the weirdest thing.
I don't know why.
I love having clean teeth, but no.
But just the PDA kicks in of like you have to do this at bedtime and like which, you
know, technically it is the most important time to brush your teeth.
You're only going to brush your teeth once a day.
Brush your teeth at night.
Exactly.
Exactly.
(27:52):
Get all the crud from the day off.
I'm like, this is disgusting, but no, we can't.
Brain says no.
So interesting.
Yeah.
I struggle with washing my face at bedtime.
Like I always want to be like, you know, I don't want to do this.
And I did have my optometrist tell me that if I didn't take my makeup off, I was going
to lose the capacity to wear contact lenses.
(28:13):
So I really needed to like do this.
So that has been a very great motivator.
Let me tell you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, thank you for framing it that way because now I have a why.
Right?
Yeah.
I always try and do that where it's like you could lose your teeth.
Like you got to do it.
So being able to recognize it has helped.
Do I do it every night?
(28:34):
No.
Like I'm exposing myself here, but like, you know, progress is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't get my eye makeup off every day.
I know I woke up a couple of days ago and I'm like, Oh God, I know what she means now
because I've been better.
And I'm like, Oh, now I see.
Right.
I don't wake up like feeling like this.
My eyes don't feel like this when I do take my makeup off.
So of course this, yes, we do need to do this, but I still have to fight myself.
(28:55):
Yeah.
And I love the, I love the advice that is like break things into smaller steps and all
this, but still like if you can't get going on that first step, sometimes it doesn't really
matter.
It doesn't really matter.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I'm like, if my brain is saying no, I really wish I could do something about it.
(29:16):
Right.
I really wish I could change this, but no, like, you know, this is the wall and we have
hit it.
That's what we're going to deal with.
And I'll always be like, we'll try again tomorrow.
No promise.
Yeah.
It's, yeah, it's been a, it's been a fun ride.
Just trying to be graceful with myself, I think is a big thing.
(29:41):
And give yourself grace, especially with, I think all of us with, with late diagnosis
need to recognize and, and extend ourselves grace that you're, you're operating on hard
mode and didn't know it and didn't recognize it and didn't know that like, you know, burnout
is real and probably on some level of burnout my whole life and just didn't really know
(30:04):
it until now.
Cause now I know when I'm heading into it and I can pull myself back, but you know,
I just didn't, I didn't recognize that before.
So how I, I, I'm going to extrapolate a little bit from what we've been talking about.
I think, I feel like your diagnosis has been empowering and has allowed you to kind of
(30:25):
like change your daily life.
Yeah.
You have some examples of like maybe some little things that have been really, have
had really great impact for you.
Yeah.
So again, mentioning the Eisenhower matrix, that was like, can you explain what that,
can you explain what that is in a little bit more detail?
(30:45):
So it's basically four boxes and what you're going to do is you're going to take your to-do
list and you're going to rank each item.
I could never do to-do lists.
I'd get way too overwhelmed because, yeah, I get the same way.
It's so hard to find, like see what's urgent, but this actually forces you to take a step
(31:07):
back and go, okay, hey, these are critical path things that need to get done.
So I'll kind of use something from work as an example of we need to get this in to run
an experiment.
So that's going to be important and urgent.
Whereas, you know, maybe putting a sample order in for something else would be, it's
(31:31):
important, but it's not urgent.
So you would go through your list and you'd rank everything if it's important or not important.
And then you would go through and do it again if it's urgent or not urgent.
So then you kind of just place those into the boxes where, you know, urgent, important,
get those done right away.
(31:52):
Important, not as urgent.
And then the ones that are not important and not urgent, don't even think about them.
So it's really, I mean, yeah.
And even just with like trying to do chores around the house too, it's really helped to
break down like, this is the most critical thing I need to do to make these other actions
(32:13):
happen.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like identifying, that's always, that is definitely one of the biggest challenges that I face too.
It's like, oh, I have, you know, a whole household to take care of.
Like what are the things that I need to urgently take care of?
Well, if you don't make sure that the cats are fed, then they're going to wake you up
at four o'clock in the morning and you don't want that.
(32:34):
Right.
Exactly.
So that's, that's been a big game changer.
I will say the other thing is I got myself a little whiteboard that is magnetic and sticks
to my fridge.
I very much so am the person of, if I don't see it, it does not exist.
So I've really been, it's been so helpful.
(32:55):
I literally will just write down everything that's in my fridge, everything that's in
my freezer.
I'll, you know, like mark it off if I've eaten it all or like change quantities.
Because I literally would go to the store and be like, oh, I need to get more like garlic
and come home and already have three things of garlic.
Yes.
So it's been a really nice tool for me to go, oh, I don't have to like stand here in
(33:19):
front of the fridge and go, I need to feed myself.
What am I feeding myself?
I can see literally on that board.
Oh, I have this, this is super easy.
I can make this tonight or just helping with meal planning.
Because I mean, being neurodivergent and feeding yourself is, that's one of my biggest challenges.
(33:40):
I just said that to somebody the other day.
I'm like, the fact that I have to like figure out food every day, multiple times a day,
like why?
Who came up with this plan?
And can I talk to them please?
Because I'm just crap.
Exactly.
I'm just like, I'd like to have a word and.
Right.
I will open my fridge and I will be like, I hate everything in here.
(34:03):
Why?
Yeah.
And I will say it's made eating a lot easier where it's just like, oh, hey, I have different
options and I try and keep things that are going to be easier to just like really low
maintenance of like, here's some sheet pan veggies.
Let's throw them in and you've got, I used to always want to be one of those like super
(34:27):
healthy, fresh people, but I'm like, I'm going to forget it's there.
It's going to go bad.
We're just going to contribute to food waste and we're just going to do things that work
for us.
So yeah, I have been deeply embracing frozen veggies and what I can do with that and my
big hack for that is frozen rice, frozen rice packets that you can get at Trader Joe's and
(34:52):
you heat them up in the microwave and it takes three minutes because it's like, oh, I would
love to eat rice, but like I can't prepare myself to cook it 30 minutes ahead of time
because I go into the kitchen and I'm hungry usually.
That's what gets me in the air.
It's that I'm hungry and like 30 minutes to cook rice is something that's, you know, even
you know, 10 or 12 minutes to cook pasta or whatever to boil the water takes too long
(35:15):
sometimes.
So those three, you know, three minute packs of rice that I can throw in and I can throw
some frozen spinach in and throw in the microwave and heat up with black beans or other things.
And, you know, I try to have a protein prep.
I haven't done that in a long time, but you know, things like that, that can be done quickly.
Yes.
(35:36):
Yeah.
And I used to be like, yeah, I'm going to meal prep.
It's going to be great.
And I would literally eat one serving of it and be like, I am so turned off from this.
I hate this.
I hate this.
I never want to eat this again.
And I'm just like, no, that's not us.
It doesn't work for us.
And that's okay.
Exactly.
That's kind of really been one of the big things of like realizing it's okay.
(36:00):
I don't have to be like everyone else.
Right.
And that's fine.
That should be the beauty that we have, you know, being neurodivergent, having a divergent
path that we're on.
Like that should be the beauty of it.
And we don't really have to have this one size fits all way to do things.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of messaging.
(36:21):
There is a lot of narrative that is, hey, you need to be this way to be productive.
And it's like, you know what?
I write better at nighttime.
Like I'm sorry, but I will like be able to do great work at 10 o'clock at night sometimes
because that's when my brain will just be like, okay, we can write right now.
Like I sent you the notes for today because I finally got the motivation and the focus
(36:43):
to address things at 10 o'clock last night.
And I was like, okay, at least, you know, okay, this is when this is happening.
We're going to go with it, you know, and you have to adapt.
Yeah.
So as we wrap up, if you were to kind of look back on your life a little bit and you were
to have a conversation with a younger undiagnosed version of yourself, what would you tell that
(37:08):
version?
It can't be the diagnosis, but like, what would you tell them?
It's okay.
Like the world isn't ending because everything always felt so black and white.
Yes.
Where it again, kind of going back to that whole anxiety thing of we have to do it now,
(37:29):
everything felt very black and white then.
And I, again, it was, you know, you're always told like, it's good to be different.
It's fine, but like, actually believe it.
Like do not just write it off.
Be weird and unapologetically weird because you're going to feel so much better.
Yes.
(37:49):
I love that.
Yeah.
It, because I will say like now that I've started unmasking more, it's, I'm not as
tired.
Like that exhaustion is not there.
And so much.
I would love to tell little me, just do it.
Like there's nothing wrong with it.
(38:10):
If someone thinks you're weird, they weren't worth having in your life to begin with.
So that's that problem.
Not yours.
Yeah, exactly.
So that's, that's kind of what I would go back and say is the world's not ending and
just be weird.
Like don't, don't try and fit in.
And I think just looking back, that was always something I tried to do despite trying to
(38:35):
be cool and saying I wasn't, but yeah.
Yeah.
Well that, that drive to fit in is really powerful and it is really, you know, and it
is a survival, it's a survival instinct and those are hard to, hard to, hard to fight.
ADHD brains are survival instincts as well.
Like just the fact that we exist.
(38:56):
Exactly.
So yeah.
Great.
Lovely.
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today.
Let our listeners know, like where can they find you if they want to talk with you or
you have some projects you might want to share?
Yeah.
So you can always find me on, I have like multiple Instagrams because again, I have
(39:17):
multiple hobbies that come up at different times.
So you can find me at sa.ro.studio.
That's where I've been most active lately.
It's also connected to my threads.
So I would say that's kind of where I've been the weirdest lately and felt the best.
(39:37):
And yeah, if anyone wants to join my little corner of the internet, I'd love to have them.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
I really enjoyed this.
A huge thank you to Sam for joining me on the show today and sharing her story.
(39:58):
I love the empowerment that comes from embracing having a spicy brain.
And Sam's story highlights that so beautifully.
Thank you so much for listening.
Make sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen, like and leave a review and share
with your spicy brain friends.
Follow us on Instagram at Divergent Paths Consulting.
(40:19):
No spaces.
And until next time, stay spicy.
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