October 25, 2024 • 45 mins
For this episode of Divergent Paths, we explore the intersection of identity, neurodivergence, and photography with our guest, Rachel Konsella, a professional elopement and wedding photographer. Rachel shares how she thrives in the dynamic, often chaotic wedding environment, and we dive into the powerful role photography plays in helping neurodivergent people, or those with "spicy brains," retain memories and capture important moments.
See more of Rachel’s work by visiting her website and Instagram:
Website: Rachel Konsella Photography
Instagram: @RachelKonsella
What role does photography play in your life? Do you use it to retain memories, track life events, or does it help you manage aspects of neurodivergence? Many neurodivergent people relate to having endless screenshots or countless open browser tabs—does this resonate with you? Join the conversation on Instagram @DivergentPathsConsulting and share your thoughts!
About Regina McMenomy Ph.D.
Host of the Divergent Paths Podcast | ADHD & Neurodiversity Advocate | Founder, Divergent Paths Consulting
Welcome to Divergent Paths, a podcast dedicated to exploring life, work, and creativity through the lens of neurodiversity. Hosted by Regina McMenomy. Ph.D., founder of Divergent Paths Consulting, the show delves into the experiences of individuals navigating ADHD and other invisible disabilities. As someone who received a late ADHD diagnosis, Regina brings personal insights and professional expertise to each episode, helping listeners find new ways to thrive in a neurotypical world.
With over 20 years of experience in instructional design, project management, and coaching, Regina is passionate about creating inclusive spaces where neurodiverse individuals can succeed. Through this podcast, Regina shares conversations with experts, professionals, and everyday people, offering tips, strategies, and stories of empowerment.
Tune in to learn how to embrace neurodivergence, redefine success, and chart your own path forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I've spent a good amount of time trying to look back at different situations that happened
(00:07):
or different things that were said to me with different eyes.
So much of my childhood was not understanding what was going on.
It's been quite the journey of just like acceptance.
I have a disorder.
My brain does not function quote unquote normally.
And maybe it's like a really beautiful thing.
(00:46):
Hello and welcome to Divergent Paths.
I'm your host, Dr. Regina McMenemy.
I am a doctor, but not that kind of doctor.
And this is a podcast, not medical advice.
Have you always felt a little different, but didn't know why?
Have you struggled with tasks that some people seem to handle with ease?
Are you mystified by social norms and interactions?
(01:07):
Divergent Paths is a podcast for late diagnosed neurodivergent people to discuss their journeys
discovering the joys and frustrations of having a spicy brain.
Each episode, I will interview someone who discovered they have ADHD, autism, or a combination
of the two later in life.
That defines a later in life diagnosis.
Anytime the realization happens outside of the quote unquote norm.
(01:30):
Rachel Kinsella is a professional elopement and wedding photographer.
We discuss how she thrives in the chaotic wedding environment and the significance of
photography for helping retain memories for people with spicy brains.
So stay tuned and thanks for listening to Divergent Paths.
When we first started talking, I found out that you were a photographer and I was commenting
(01:55):
on your titles for your pictures, right?
Wasn't that one of the first things?
Yes.
And I will never, like I honestly will never forget what you had told me, which was that
you said you really appreciated my art, my visual art, but you also just as much appreciated
the titles that I had chosen to match up with the art and that you are like so into language.
(02:22):
And so that was just like really touching for me because I do spend a lot of time picking
out the titles and often, you know, I don't even know if anybody reads them.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's so hard.
Like that's one of the hardest things about being a creative, I think is when you're,
when you're putting your energy and your art and your, you know, as far as I'm concerned,
(02:42):
little bits of your soul out into the world, being able to get that feedback of, oh, wow,
this is, you know, this is actually hitting and oh, people are paying attention and people
are hearing and listening and seeing, you know, because that's, I don't know, one of
the hardest things if you're a creative and you're not seen, it hurts too.
(03:04):
Right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like has photography always been your, your creative outlet?
Has that been like a persistent interest?
I think so.
Yeah.
Growing up, I remember like going through thousands of disposable cameras and my mom
just being like, how did you fill this in, you know, 20 minutes?
(03:28):
Like this is the camera for the year.
Right.
And I'm like taking pictures of like my favorite cartoon shows and I'm like, oh, my, my favorite
characters here.
Yeah, exactly.
So like, let me like capture in the camera, this like little bit on the TV so you'd get
(03:49):
the camera photos back and it would just be all of like the rugrats.
Right.
I've also always enjoyed painting too.
Painting has definitely been a thing that I've always done.
What brings that drive?
Because those are both very similar, but very different manifestations of visual arts,
right?
(04:09):
I'm not a photographer.
I can take some good pictures sometimes, but I'm definitely, it's definitely not my thing.
And I always have this thing with pictures of why doesn't it look like what it looks
like for me, right?
That's not what I am seeing.
Exactly.
I think that's just more about kind of deep diving into the gear and just really knowing
(04:33):
like the camera and knowing editing software afterward and then being able to know what
you can do with your camera and what you can do with a computer before you even take the
photo.
Oh, interesting.
That's kind of, I think where you'll have the most success is knowing those things on
(04:55):
the backend and then applying them ahead of time.
You have in your mind, I can catch this this way, but I can also afterward edit it like
this.
Exactly.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep.
Many years ago when I was first doing conventions, I went to Penny Arcade Expo, which is the
(05:17):
big video game convention up in Seattle.
And I have a friend who does, he does visual media, but you know, video.
And so he came along and we were on press passes and he brought his camera and we did
a bunch of like impromptu interviews on the show floor and stuff.
It was fantastic.
(05:38):
But I remember a mutual friend of ours saying to me, you're going to be really confused
by some of what he does.
And I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But then when I saw the edit, he edited a whole open for all of the videos that were
like these snippets of video of just random things from the convention, random cosplays,
(06:02):
random this, random this.
A couple of times he asked me to do a few things.
He's like, just walk down that, you know, walk down that hallway or whatever, walk by
this display.
And all of that came together to be this opening for the video.
But like to the, you know, the outsider who's not looking inside at that process.
I had no idea that that's what was happening.
Yup.
(06:22):
Yup.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure that when I'm like photographing a wedding, that's kind of like my primary
way to make an income with my photography is through wedding photography.
I guarantee you, I have a handful of guests, every wedding who are like, what in the world
is she doing?
But I know what I'm doing.
(06:43):
I don't need them to know what I'm doing.
Exactly.
And I'm like, you know, you have the big picture and you know, I know lots of people who've
been in the wedding industry.
So I know like DJs and like all kinds of different people who've worked in the weddings and other
wedding photographers.
And they always say the same thing too.
Like you're looking at this, like the big umbrella picture of like of the day and recognizing
(07:09):
those moments that the participants aren't seeing, but might want to remember.
Right?
Yup.
Yup.
Yeah.
So like my cousin is a photographer, but she only does senior portraits.
She won't do weddings because she feels she can't handle the responsibility of being that
(07:29):
person.
Yeah.
And I'm one of those weirdos who like really thrives on that intense pressure of like,
you have to get this.
I really, really excel in those environments and in those moments.
So how about a spicy brain to you?
Yeah.
(07:49):
Well, I mean, because there is that, I mean, it's a stereotype for a reason.
There are many of us that like in that pressure cooker environment will have like certain
like that focus comes in.
If there's a moment where I have like a hyper focus, it is absolutely when I'm photographing
a wedding because I am just so in the zone and I just, I love it.
(08:13):
I'm just, I'm paying attention to everything.
There's so much going on.
When I'm doing senior portraits, I get a little bored to be honest with you.
I'm like, I need more.
Where's the 10 million things I need to be paying attention to?
I can't focus on this one thing.
Yeah.
(08:34):
Yeah.
That's interesting.
And it's interesting to think of the difference of the setting.
Like I wouldn't have necessarily thought about when it's a senior portrait, you're focusing
on one person and it's a different aspect of the creative process.
Whereas with the wedding, you're focusing on all the guests, on the bride and groom,
on this and that, like, you know, making sure you get the details for the food or other
(08:57):
things that might be happening.
That are the things people are going to forget and you know, their memories and stuff.
So with Spicy Brains, one of the things that is the kind of a cornerstone is that we don't
have great memories.
Yeah.
I will keep things as, you know, as mementos of things.
I don't think I've ever told this story, but I have a, I have a nail in my makeup bag,
(09:20):
which I know probably sounds totally random and it is because it is, but I was on a trip
when I was in my undergrad.
We went to Hawaii with my geology class, which just in and of itself is an amazing thing.
But I met my friend Gretchen on this trip and for whatever reason, she had a nail with
her and she's like, I don't want you to forget me.
(09:43):
And she gave me the nail and I put it in my makeup bag and it has been in my makeup bag.
I have not talked to her in 20 years, but I still remember Gretchen and what she looks
like in that trip because that nail was in my makeup bag.
I love that.
It's still there and I have moved makeup bags multiple times and there's still a nail in
my makeup bag.
Like, you know, yeah, I just held onto it for that reason.
(10:07):
But I'm wondering if like your drive for sort of visual representation is maybe linked to
some of this memory and, and with like being good at weddings, like keeping kind of that
perspective in mind.
That is so funny that you say that I was just thinking the last few days about wondering
(10:27):
if how much of my extreme like memory loss or lack of being able to remember things is
tied to my ADHD.
Because I know working memory is is a big factor ADHD.
In general, like my memory is just so poor.
(10:47):
It's like it's embarrassing.
It's hard.
Yeah, yeah.
It includes things that are personal things.
I will forget that I've seen a movie.
Yeah, I will forget that I've met a person more than once.
I forget just like, I don't know, it's it's wild.
(11:08):
But absolutely photography.
When I'm photographing, I it's a way to help me remember actually what I'm seeing and what
I'm experiencing.
So a lot of times people will say like, Oh, don't don't take pictures like be in the moment,
you know, if I'm in the moment, I'll probably forget it.
(11:29):
But if I'm living the moment while I'm photographing and this is just for me, this isn't the we
also have a massive problem in society where we are over taking pictures of just everything
and we aren't living in the moment.
This is not to say that.
But I know for myself when I'm photographing, there's a certain like, something that helps
(11:52):
my brain to remember the experience that I'm having and to be able to have it to look at
in the future is so precious to me.
So I definitely think that you're on to something that yeah, my photography is a way for me
to just literally help remember my life experience.
(12:14):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
You know, I'm one of those people who I I'm definitely a nostalgia junkie.
Like I very much hold on to a lot of things because because I miss things.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
(12:36):
Like I Yeah, exactly.
Gretchen's nail.
Like that's that's that's it.
Like it's it's it's the thing.
But like I have an app on my phone called time hop, which shows you like your pictures
from like, you know, this this day, you know, and I am like on, I don't know, an embarrassing
number of I haven't missed a day of looking at that app for like 3000 days or something
(13:02):
like that.
It's it's it's it's very rare that a day goes by that I don't go through that app.
And part of that is, you know, that my daughter is 10.
And you know, I have been using it for, you know, a number of years because it helps me
remember like where she was to look back like there were pictures in today's because I've
already gone through today's where we were at Target and she was a baby.
(13:28):
So she's it's she would have been maybe seven or eight months old.
And we had put this this turkey hat on her.
And so it was like these pictures of her in this turkey hat.
And it's like, I have no like actual memory of.
Oh, you have no memory of it.
No, I don't remember.
(13:48):
Yeah, but you have the photo of it.
But I have the photo.
So I know that we did it, but I don't like I'm like, wow, no persistent memory, none
of it.
And for, you know, being a mom and watching like how quickly, you know, everybody talks
it all.
Mom say, you know, go so quick.
And it really it really does.
But when it goes so quick and you have a bad memory.
(14:12):
Yeah, like those pictures become so much more important and so valuable to be able to look
back and say, oh, we were doing this silly thing on this day.
Right.
That I wouldn't have otherwise remembered.
So totally, totally.
And it's not and it's not just the, you know, professional photos that you have done either.
Right.
(14:32):
It's just it's those those day to day moments of just being silly, putting on a turkey hat
and Target.
You know, that's like.
So your your diagnosis, you said was earlier in life.
So tell me a little bit about like how your process went for when you got diagnosed.
I believe I was six years old.
(14:52):
Which.
OK.
Yeah.
It's very young.
Yeah.
I was a very, very fidgety child and I think I still am quite fidgety.
So it was also it was like the mid 90s.
So it was starting to get more common that girls can have ADHD as well as boys.
(15:13):
Yeah.
So I was really lucky on that front.
But yeah, it was my first grade teacher had mentioned to my parents that that she thought
that, you know, maybe an evaluation might be a good idea.
And so my parents were like, oh, yeah, that's like because my home life was also very chaotic.
I was all over the place with just dys dysregulation, essentially.
(15:40):
So my parents were like, yeah, that's a great idea.
And actually, my grandparents were really against the idea of of having an evaluation
done.
And my grandparents were really they were an active part of my life.
(16:00):
So their opinions played a big role.
Yeah.
OK.
And so my grandparents were like, no, she doesn't need an evaluation.
She's really smart.
Right.
No way.
She would there's no way she would have ADHD.
So my parents decided to have the evaluation done anyway, came back exploding with ADHD.
(16:25):
Right.
And my parents continued to kind of like want to say that I didn't have it.
Yeah.
Deny it.
So they had me then go in to test, like have an IQ test done to prove that I didn't have
ADHD.
And like, I'm six years old and I have no like, you know, I have my parents are kind
(16:50):
of like telling me, yep, it's very apparent.
My grandparents are like, no, there's no way.
And I think there's a generational aspect there.
Yes.
So what was happening to me?
But so the other the other really interesting part of this was that so I got diagnosed and
(17:13):
I was put on Ritalin.
And who is my pharmacist?
My grandfather.
Every month that I would go get my medication with my mom, there would be that reminder
from my grandfather.
You don't need this.
You're fine.
(17:34):
Wow.
You don't need this.
I heard from you hearing that because it's like to have a parental adult figure who
is like denying what is that makes it your responsibility.
Right.
Like you don't need this.
You know, it takes away the fact that it's not a failing on your part.
(17:54):
Looking back, when I was at home with my parents, there was no masking that was going on.
They saw the true me.
That's great.
When I was with my grandparents, there was a lot of masking that went on, which I think
is why they were able to so easily dismiss my disorder and and, you know, not want to
(18:17):
accept it.
And part of accepting it through me means that then they have to accept it for themselves
as well.
That now they have a grandchild that has a disorder.
Yes, there's a lot there.
And it just and it just continued through all of elementary school, all of middle school,
all of high school.
And even when I would spend time at my grandparents' house, you know, they would just say like,
(18:40):
you know, oh, you know, you don't need to take your you don't need to take your medicine
today.
So I would actually hide it in my like suitcase that I would bring with them there and just
like I would take it because I knew how much it helped me.
Right.
Yeah.
And it feels like and I'm gonna I'm gonna project a little bit here.
(19:01):
So if this is off base, you'd let me know.
So not only are you getting this from like primary care attachment to people, right,
because we talk about attachment theory, it's clear that your grandparents had a very important
and significant role in your life.
And so you have them having a reaction, I think is based in their own insecurities,
(19:23):
right?
Because it is largely genetic, pretty much proven at this point that it's following our
genes and it's coming from, you know, it's coming from our parents.
And even even with that, we are attracted to people who are spicy brains, too, because
(19:44):
we understand each other.
So the likelihood of I think the statistic I've read is if both parents are neuro spicy,
then it's like an 85% chance that the children are going to be neuro spicy, which is like,
you know, hi.
There's a very, very high likelihood that it's not just your parents, but it's probably
(20:08):
your grandparents as well.
And so to have that like insecurity and to to want to put that control over you and your
experience and deny for you what the medication does, like, oh, there's so many layers there
of difficulty and trauma and kind of pulling out of it.
(20:32):
Do you have a sense of like, and I don't know how raw all of this is for you, because I'm
like, you know, do you have some resolution that you've kind of come to with it?
Or is it still something that kind of resonates for you of like, oh, that still hurts?
I've spent a good amount of time, like trying to look back at different situations that
(20:54):
happened or different things that were said to me with with different eyes, right, and
a different heart to just try to help kind of like understand because I had so much of
my childhood was not understanding what was going on in regards to my disorder.
(21:15):
And I've also spent it's been quite the journey of just like acceptance of my own my own acceptance.
And I would probably say just honestly, within the last like five, maybe 10 years, I'm 36
(21:36):
now.
I'm really, really embracing like I have a disorder.
My brain does not function, quote unquote, normally.
And not only is that something that I need to work with, but actually, maybe it's like
(21:58):
a really beautiful thing.
Yes, maybe maybe it's why, like, I, I don't I'm like, I'm a light, I am like a bright
light.
Yeah, and I've got so much energy, and I've got so much excitement.
And maybe that's not a bad thing.
Maybe I don't need to dim it.
(22:20):
Maybe I don't need to mask be like everything else.
And also, I never spent much time actually understanding what are the nuances of ADHD.
You know, I know the classics, right, like, right, it's really difficult for me to focus.
It's really difficult for me to certain things are very organized, other things are very
(22:44):
disorganized.
You know, and then just fidgeting like I cannot get my hands right now just moving all over
the place.
Yeah.
You know, all of my kind of like sensory.
Right.
What would you say sensitivities, my sensory sensitivities that you know, my clothes, I
(23:09):
get really angry with my clothes and I yeah, socks.
Oh my gosh.
Oh, God.
That's my daughter saying socks are socks are the struggle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And hair hair in my face.
I always have my hair pulled back because you know, I hate it.
Yeah.
Anyway, so like those the the classic ADHD things, you know, I've had an awareness about
(23:32):
but there's there's other things like rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria.
Oh, yes.
It was introduced to this three years ago and I'm like, this is why I think everybody
hates me.
Right.
It's because it's a dysphoria.
I it is.
(23:54):
It's not real.
Right.
It's not.
People actually love me and I think that they hate me.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
I go I oh God, when I was introduced to the concept of RSD, I was like, Oh my God.
This explains so much.
So much of my life.
Yeah.
So much of like why I react the way I react sometimes the way I get overblown, you know,
(24:19):
concepts the way like, you know, that I have this difficulty struggling with.
Like, like you said, like you feel like everybody's mad at you and the likelihood everybody's
mad at you is pretty low.
But yeah, exactly.
And where I experienced it a lot, which has been so helpful is in my work.
When I give someone right the photos that they've hired me to do and if I don't hear
(24:43):
back from them, like immediately I'm like, Oh, they hate their photos.
They hate their photos.
They're so mad.
Yeah.
No, they're busy.
They don't check their email.
Just like me.
I don't know many other.
There's so many other explanations for what we think is.
Yeah.
This is definitely one of the big things that I still struggle with and that I see a lot
(25:07):
of people, you know, late or regular or, you know, normal, not normal early diagnosis.
I don't know.
I don't know what to say there.
Maybe traditional.
Traditionally.
Yeah.
Traditionally diagnosed.
Yeah.
I see that.
I see it very much in some as as one of those things.
And I've been thinking about in terms of, you know, pattern pattern recognition is another
(25:32):
one of the big ones.
Right.
And that's part of what's happening with with the rejection sensitive dysphoria is your
it's rare that the pattern I'm seeing doesn't exist.
Like the pattern is there.
And what I'm starting to understand is the meaning I assigned to it is not always correct.
(25:53):
And because I, you know, I went for so long undiagnosed and, you know, not recognizing
what this was, I have had a higher level of criticism, of critique, of, you know, of negative
statements made to me about who I am and how I behave and this and that that are that that
(26:20):
my my tendency is to see the the the bad meanings.
Right.
And to end to head there.
And because I had anxiety, like I was, you know, I was diagnosed with anxiety.
I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD.
Right.
Because.
Yep.
Yep.
Been there.
Yep.
And it's like, oh, well, where is the anxiety coming from now that I'm on stimulants?
(26:45):
I know that my like I could not believe how much my anxiety went away when I started on
the stimulants.
And it's like it's fascinating.
You know, the physiological nature of some of this has been fascinating.
When you start, especially my age, because I didn't start stimulants until I was 49.
(27:07):
You know, heart blood pressure is, you know, something they start to watch when you're
in your 40s pretty closely.
Right.
And when you go on stims, they're like, let us know if your blood pressure because you
you're going to have to stop this if your blood pressure goes too high.
And it's like, OK, my blood pressure dropped back down to what it was when I was in my
(27:30):
30s.
Because you're more regulated.
I'm regulated because my nervous system is like, oh, so we've been missing for so long.
Yeah.
So I went back down.
So I am on medication that they say raises your blood pressure and has reduced it because
(27:50):
it's something that my body needed and it never really had.
And I never really had this like steady because I'm on an extended release.
So like I have a little bit of it all day long.
And with that extended release came this nervous system regulation that that changed fundamental
parts of my life because like I never knew what it was like to be regulated.
(28:12):
And some of the things that I was using to try to make myself feel regulated, like, let's
say alcohol, for example, I can't drink the same anymore.
I can't drink like I did because now that I have a regulated nervous system, I see how
badly the alcohol dysregulates me.
Yeah.
Touching on the the anxiety portion, even being on medication, like in my teenage years,
(28:38):
they I don't I think I needed to have a switch of medication.
I started getting very anxious.
And so they diagnosed me with anxiety and I started an anxiety med and it wasn't really
working and because I was just I started getting really depressed because I didn't know why
I was so anxious.
(28:59):
And looking back, I'm like, it was my ADHD the whole time.
It was the whole time because I was so anxious about not fitting into the world that was
designed for not me.
Right.
Yes.
You know, I think that that's really common.
Right.
(29:20):
There's it's so tricky, right?
Because all of these diagnosis, there's so many overlaps.
Yeah.
And there's so many different things that could be one thing or another.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I got so much time in, you know, in the evaluation period or excuse me, talking to
(29:41):
your doctor.
It makes sense that there's also a lot of misdiagnosis that happen.
Right.
Oh, absolutely.
For anyone who is considering, you know, if they have ADHD and if they're also suffering
from anxiety, it's I think it's important to really look at the ADHD and see what might
(30:04):
be causing anxious thoughts within within that.
And that's yeah.
For doing looking at that first, because just having the proper medication might take care
of all of your anxieties.
That's the rub, I think.
Right.
And I think a lot of a lot of people, especially a lot of assigned female birth people, right,
(30:27):
who are struggling with all of the other things that go along with ADHD and and the correlation
between what happens to your dopamine production as you enter into perimenopause and and your
estrogen starts dropping and your estrogen levels are related.
(30:49):
Like estrogen helps regulate your dopamine.
So like, you know, ovaries and uterus tend to make things significantly more complicated
for our spicy brains as well.
It's like, you know, yeah.
That's another that's another fascinating thing is, is just I would say within the last
(31:09):
like five years, I've really started looking at exactly the hormone fluctuations throughout
the month and how that plays a role in my mental health.
If somebody would have talked to me about that 20 years ago instead of five years ago,
well, we would have just a breakthrough.
(31:30):
Like by the way, day 20, you are going to be really, really angry.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And you're going to you know, your focus is going to to dip through the month and your
ability to to get things done is linked to, you know, to where you are in your cycle,
because you're not going to have as much dopamine and like, and it's going to ramp up here and
(31:53):
you're going to have this kind of yeah, there are so many different pieces involved.
And sadly, because you know, I just saw a TikTok the other day that was like, oh, this
is what it was like being a girl having autism in the 90s.
And then she's like, just kidding.
They didn't think girls could have autism in the 90s.
Yeah, just kidding.
(32:13):
Because we can have it.
And that's still, you know, there's still that sense of understanding how how assigned
female birth bodies manifest, you know, ADHD.
And it's not just these we're talking right now about physical symptoms, but there are
social, you know, social symptoms, because a lot of that expectation that I imagine you
(32:36):
had with your grandparents is gendered.
Right.
And it is that you are a girl and you're supposed to behave this way because you're a girl.
And I would say a good portion of the, you know, the masking and the people pleasing
that I've struggled with in my life comes from the fact that my mom taught me to be
(32:57):
a specific way because of who I was.
And I always used to fight with her because of course, I've been studying gender.
That's one of my special interests that has, you know, persisted through most of my life.
She would say, because I have three brothers and then I'm the only girl.
And my mom would say things like my boys were boys and my girl was a girl.
And I'm like, yeah, but you treated your boys like boys and you treated me like a girl.
(33:19):
So like, of course we behave differently.
You had different expectations of how I was going to behave versus how my brothers were
going to behave.
And we fulfilled those.
She got so mad at me when my when my daughter's dad would would roughhouse with her.
It's like, she's a girl and I'm like, she's a baby.
(33:40):
Like she needs this just her brain needs this just as much as a boy's does.
Like she needs to understand her body and understand where her body is in space.
And that's part of what roughhousing helps with, you know, she needs to be more gentle
with her.
And I'm like, he doesn't, he's being totally safe and totally fine.
And yeah, yeah, yes, the body.
(34:02):
Yeah.
The overprotectiveness of the physical body and a difference because she was a girl versus,
you know, if she was a boy and that and that also goes to the generational ideas too about
like, you know, her ideas about gender were were much more solid in that, like what her
generation believed was supposed to be.
(34:24):
I have wondered what it would be like for my mom if she's seen as she passed away several
years ago.
So like, I I don't get to explain to her.
Like I see her in such a different light now because I understand that she had undiagnosed
ADHD and had, you know, was treated for anxiety and the medication she was taking for the
anxiety didn't have, you know, great effect because it wasn't really treating the underlying
(34:49):
cause.
So yeah, fascinating.
Yeah.
But I think I want to I want to dig a little bit into something you said kind of a little
bit back, like you're talking about feeling like you're a light and there's so much so
much good, you know, that comes from from having a spicy brain.
And I never want these these conversations to not highlight that there's so much good
(35:12):
that comes from this.
So what is what is something that you feel stands out for you in terms of the skills
you have because you have ADHD and a spicy brain?
Like to be flexible, I think, or just like go with the flow or last minute adaptive.
(35:33):
Yeah, I'm extremely adaptive.
Which sometimes isn't always the case for someone who's neurodiverse, right?
Yeah, right.
Absolutely.
There's a lot of virginity.
Yeah, exactly.
(35:55):
And while sometimes I definitely know the importance of schedules and rigidness, but
I am like I love.
Gosh, I'm just struggling with my words right now.
Yeah, just like going with the flow.
Like I don't know.
(36:16):
It just it every time.
So like, I've just been realizing, like, when I make like a plan, like, OK, this is what
I'm going to do.
This is how it's going to happen.
And I'm just like, it just doesn't work that way.
And so I need to just.
Let it go.
Right.
I'm like, yeah, this is what we actually want anyway.
Right.
(36:36):
So I'm the kind of person who if every day looks exactly the same, I am bored out of
my mind.
Right.
Although it's so tricky, right?
Because routine is really important for someone with ADHD, because that's all that you have
because you don't have like patterns.
Right.
So yeah, I'm a runner.
(36:56):
I can take running as my example.
I do not run at the same time or even close to the same time every day.
I just like run when I'm like, OK, time to time to run.
Right.
Like it's time to be physical now, because I know this is going to help my brain work
with or even not like you're just like clued in and you're like, yeah, I'm that way.
I don't I don't run and walk, but like I'm the same way I can't.
(37:18):
I know people who are like, oh, I get up and I go walk.
And I'm like, good for you.
I'm glad that works for you.
But I like I have to get to the point where I'm like, OK, my brain and my body are ready
to walk now, you know, and it's a different process.
I like to think I have a hard time with routines as well.
I don't I don't follow like loosely.
(37:41):
I have been trying to reframe some of some of that for myself in terms of rituals, like,
you know, OK, let's I I'm really bad about like taking care of my physical body.
Me too.
A lot of the time, right?
Like I need to wash my face.
(38:03):
I need it.
You know, I need to and especially around food and the people who are closest to me
are very hyper aware of like, OK, like I was saw a friend the other day and when they left,
they said, don't forget to eat and I was like, yeah, how did you know I was going to do that?
It's like, remember that pattern recognition you were talking about?
(38:25):
You're not the only one with it.
Like, so I try to think about about it instead of routines, rituals.
And it's like, OK, when I when I go to go to bed at night, I'm taking care of my teeth
because, you know, this is part of the ritual.
And then like, OK, you're going to wash your face.
And because this is this is part of you taking care of yourself.
Like my optometrist just told me if you don't take off your eye makeup, you're going to
(38:48):
lose the ability to wear contacts and you're going to be really unhappy when that happens.
And I'm like, you are correct.
The way that I solved my contact is I just got LASIK because I was like, you know what?
Screw the contacts.
I'm just going to take care of this urgently.
There are ways to deal with this now.
I'm going to do it.
Right.
(39:08):
And that's where, you know, we talk about the ADHD tax, right?
Like I, you know, I struggle with wasting food a lot of the time because I won't know
what the store when I want to eat.
Right.
And I will buy things and then I'll be like, oh, crap, I forgot to cook this and now it's
bad.
Right.
So I'm trying to change good portions of my life to avoid the ADHD tax.
(39:28):
But there are also things like that that we don't talk about in terms of like I I lost
my keys the other day and I I almost never misplaced my keys.
But you know, I took them out of where they normally are and I put them in a different
place and in a way I don't put them and I swear I checked the pocket where I thought
(39:49):
they were and I could not find them there.
And four days later they were in that pocket.
Like I sometimes sometimes it has to be like the universe just like moving things and messing
with you because I'm like, there's how did I check this pocket and not know that they
were here four days ago?
Yeah.
Only thought to check at them again.
(40:09):
And I think about like one of the things that helped me not misplace my keys was the fact
that I now have a car that has keyless entry, which is like the best thing for my ADHD that
has ever existed because I do not have to get the key out in order to make the car function.
And that was a game changer.
And I have another one that's, you know, that's an expensive fix.
(40:31):
Like Lasix is an expensive fix, right?
I mean, although I was going to say contact.
Yeah.
That's a very like privileged thing for me to say.
I will say I used, how I was able to afford that is I used the stimulus money that we
got.
It was like, because I wasn't expecting to receive that money.
(40:53):
And I was like, I'm going to just, I've wanted to do this thing for so long.
And so here's this lump sum of money that I was not expecting.
So that's how I did that.
But I definitely realized that that's a very like privileged thing to say.
But if you are in a position where you can afford it, wow.
Like what a thing to not have to worry about your contacts anymore.
(41:14):
Like an ADHD person, like, whoa.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
It's literally life changing, right?
Like, anyway.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
And that's kind of what I was trying to get to is like all of those like life changing
ADHD accommodations, you know, that I was making to my life before I knew I had ADHD,
(41:35):
you know, the keyless entry in my car.
My washing machine has something called a fan fresh setting where I can run a load and
it will run a fan and periodically tumble my wet clothes so that it doesn't get that
funky smell when you forget to switch it.
(41:55):
That one in particular saves so much time and so much effort and so much energy.
But like the only reason why I got that was because we needed a new washing machine and
I didn't even know, like I didn't know to go look for that.
Like, oh, this is going to help you with this thing for this undiagnosed disability that
you have.
(42:16):
And so it is those things that do tend to be more expensive.
And so I'm in the process of trying to reframe the ADHD tax, not just to be, you know, the
vegetables that are rotting in my fridge that I forgot to cook, but also that like, you
know, surgeries of, you know, other things of, you know, car, keyless entry, whatever
it is, you know, it takes a certain amount of money and a certain amount of privilege.
(42:40):
And that's where, because I struggled with calling it, like you said, you know, recognizing
and accepting that it's a disorder, that it's a disability, that this isn't some like little
flighty thing that I can just fix with a planner, you know, like people want to see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can't you just like make a to do list?
(43:01):
Right.
Would you just check things off your to do list?
And I'm like, no, I forget the to do list exists.
Like I know that's like sat down at my desk here and I'm like, oh, I read out all these
things I was supposed to do this week.
And if any of that.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I do think that there's, there's a lot of that, that, and it's, it's a little, it's
(43:26):
a little heartening for me to know that you got diagnosed early and you're still at this
point in your life where, you know, even with that knowledge at that age, you're still coming
to, to that, that acceptance doesn't, doesn't happen just because of the diagnosis or the
understanding or the depth of understanding doesn't necessarily come from the diagnosis
(43:48):
if it does come earlier in life.
That's, that's a very individualistic thing, right?
But yeah, definitely for myself, accepting my disorder has definitely been a theme my
whole life.
And, and it's just, it's just a journey, you know, it's just, it's still, it's still your
divergent path.
Yeah.
(44:09):
Thank you so much for coming in and chatting with me today.
I've really enjoyed our conversation.
Would you like our listeners to check out your photography or any of your other sort
of online interests?
Let them know where to find you.
Yeah, totally.
My photography website is rachaconsellaphotography.com.
I'm a wedding photographer, but I also sell landscape prints.
(44:32):
So there's a section on my website for landscape photos.
Yeah.
Or you can find me on Instagram at rachaconsella.
Sweet.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I really appreciate you sharing your divergent path and your spicy brain.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been great to be here.
A huge thank you to Rachel for chatting with me today and sharing her story.
(45:03):
Check the show notes for links to her Instagram and website.
Thank you so much for listening.
I'm really glad you're here.
Make sure you subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen and share with your spicy brain
friends.
Follow us on Instagram at Divergent Paths Consulting No Spaces.
And until next time, stay spicy.
I've spent a good amount of time trying to look back at different situations that happened
(00:07):
or different things that were said to me with different eyes.
So much of my childhood was not understanding what was going on.
It's been quite the journey of just like acceptance.
I have a disorder.
My brain does not function quote unquote normally.
And maybe it's like a really beautiful thing.
(00:46):
Hello and welcome to Divergent Paths.
I'm your host, Dr. Regina McMenemy.
I am a doctor, but not that kind of doctor.
And this is a podcast, not medical advice.
Have you always felt a little different, but didn't know why?
Have you struggled with tasks that some people seem to handle with ease?
Are you mystified by social norms and interactions?
(01:07):
Divergent Paths is a podcast for late diagnosed neurodivergent people to discuss their journeys
discovering the joys and frustrations of having a spicy brain.
Each episode, I will interview someone who discovered they have ADHD, autism, or a combination
of the two later in life.
That defines a later in life diagnosis.
Anytime the realization happens outside of the quote unquote norm.
(01:30):
Rachel Kinsella is a professional elopement and wedding photographer.
We discuss how she thrives in the chaotic wedding environment and the significance of
photography for helping retain memories for people with spicy brains.
So stay tuned and thanks for listening to Divergent Paths.
When we first started talking, I found out that you were a photographer and I was commenting
(01:55):
on your titles for your pictures, right?
Wasn't that one of the first things?
Yes.
And I will never, like I honestly will never forget what you had told me, which was that
you said you really appreciated my art, my visual art, but you also just as much appreciated
the titles that I had chosen to match up with the art and that you are like so into language.
(02:22):
And so that was just like really touching for me because I do spend a lot of time picking
out the titles and often, you know, I don't even know if anybody reads them.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's so hard.
Like that's one of the hardest things about being a creative, I think is when you're,
when you're putting your energy and your art and your, you know, as far as I'm concerned,
(02:42):
little bits of your soul out into the world, being able to get that feedback of, oh, wow,
this is, you know, this is actually hitting and oh, people are paying attention and people
are hearing and listening and seeing, you know, because that's, I don't know, one of
the hardest things if you're a creative and you're not seen, it hurts too.
(03:04):
Right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like has photography always been your, your creative outlet?
Has that been like a persistent interest?
I think so.
Yeah.
Growing up, I remember like going through thousands of disposable cameras and my mom
just being like, how did you fill this in, you know, 20 minutes?
(03:28):
Like this is the camera for the year.
Right.
And I'm like taking pictures of like my favorite cartoon shows and I'm like, oh, my, my favorite
characters here.
Yeah, exactly.
So like, let me like capture in the camera, this like little bit on the TV so you'd get
(03:49):
the camera photos back and it would just be all of like the rugrats.
Right.
I've also always enjoyed painting too.
Painting has definitely been a thing that I've always done.
What brings that drive?
Because those are both very similar, but very different manifestations of visual arts,
right?
(04:09):
I'm not a photographer.
I can take some good pictures sometimes, but I'm definitely, it's definitely not my thing.
And I always have this thing with pictures of why doesn't it look like what it looks
like for me, right?
That's not what I am seeing.
Exactly.
I think that's just more about kind of deep diving into the gear and just really knowing
(04:33):
like the camera and knowing editing software afterward and then being able to know what
you can do with your camera and what you can do with a computer before you even take the
photo.
Oh, interesting.
That's kind of, I think where you'll have the most success is knowing those things on
(04:55):
the backend and then applying them ahead of time.
You have in your mind, I can catch this this way, but I can also afterward edit it like
this.
Exactly.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep.
Many years ago when I was first doing conventions, I went to Penny Arcade Expo, which is the
(05:17):
big video game convention up in Seattle.
And I have a friend who does, he does visual media, but you know, video.
And so he came along and we were on press passes and he brought his camera and we did
a bunch of like impromptu interviews on the show floor and stuff.
It was fantastic.
(05:38):
But I remember a mutual friend of ours saying to me, you're going to be really confused
by some of what he does.
And I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
But then when I saw the edit, he edited a whole open for all of the videos that were
like these snippets of video of just random things from the convention, random cosplays,
(06:02):
random this, random this.
A couple of times he asked me to do a few things.
He's like, just walk down that, you know, walk down that hallway or whatever, walk by
this display.
And all of that came together to be this opening for the video.
But like to the, you know, the outsider who's not looking inside at that process.
I had no idea that that's what was happening.
Yup.
(06:22):
Yup.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure that when I'm like photographing a wedding, that's kind of like my primary
way to make an income with my photography is through wedding photography.
I guarantee you, I have a handful of guests, every wedding who are like, what in the world
is she doing?
But I know what I'm doing.
(06:43):
I don't need them to know what I'm doing.
Exactly.
And I'm like, you know, you have the big picture and you know, I know lots of people who've
been in the wedding industry.
So I know like DJs and like all kinds of different people who've worked in the weddings and other
wedding photographers.
And they always say the same thing too.
Like you're looking at this, like the big umbrella picture of like of the day and recognizing
(07:09):
those moments that the participants aren't seeing, but might want to remember.
Right?
Yup.
Yup.
Yeah.
So like my cousin is a photographer, but she only does senior portraits.
She won't do weddings because she feels she can't handle the responsibility of being that
(07:29):
person.
Yeah.
And I'm one of those weirdos who like really thrives on that intense pressure of like,
you have to get this.
I really, really excel in those environments and in those moments.
So how about a spicy brain to you?
Yeah.
(07:49):
Well, I mean, because there is that, I mean, it's a stereotype for a reason.
There are many of us that like in that pressure cooker environment will have like certain
like that focus comes in.
If there's a moment where I have like a hyper focus, it is absolutely when I'm photographing
a wedding because I am just so in the zone and I just, I love it.
(08:13):
I'm just, I'm paying attention to everything.
There's so much going on.
When I'm doing senior portraits, I get a little bored to be honest with you.
I'm like, I need more.
Where's the 10 million things I need to be paying attention to?
I can't focus on this one thing.
Yeah.
(08:34):
Yeah.
That's interesting.
And it's interesting to think of the difference of the setting.
Like I wouldn't have necessarily thought about when it's a senior portrait, you're focusing
on one person and it's a different aspect of the creative process.
Whereas with the wedding, you're focusing on all the guests, on the bride and groom,
on this and that, like, you know, making sure you get the details for the food or other
(08:57):
things that might be happening.
That are the things people are going to forget and you know, their memories and stuff.
So with Spicy Brains, one of the things that is the kind of a cornerstone is that we don't
have great memories.
Yeah.
I will keep things as, you know, as mementos of things.
I don't think I've ever told this story, but I have a, I have a nail in my makeup bag,
(09:20):
which I know probably sounds totally random and it is because it is, but I was on a trip
when I was in my undergrad.
We went to Hawaii with my geology class, which just in and of itself is an amazing thing.
But I met my friend Gretchen on this trip and for whatever reason, she had a nail with
her and she's like, I don't want you to forget me.
(09:43):
And she gave me the nail and I put it in my makeup bag and it has been in my makeup bag.
I have not talked to her in 20 years, but I still remember Gretchen and what she looks
like in that trip because that nail was in my makeup bag.
I love that.
It's still there and I have moved makeup bags multiple times and there's still a nail in
my makeup bag.
Like, you know, yeah, I just held onto it for that reason.
(10:07):
But I'm wondering if like your drive for sort of visual representation is maybe linked to
some of this memory and, and with like being good at weddings, like keeping kind of that
perspective in mind.
That is so funny that you say that I was just thinking the last few days about wondering
(10:27):
if how much of my extreme like memory loss or lack of being able to remember things is
tied to my ADHD.
Because I know working memory is is a big factor ADHD.
In general, like my memory is just so poor.
(10:47):
It's like it's embarrassing.
It's hard.
Yeah, yeah.
It includes things that are personal things.
I will forget that I've seen a movie.
Yeah, I will forget that I've met a person more than once.
I forget just like, I don't know, it's it's wild.
(11:08):
But absolutely photography.
When I'm photographing, I it's a way to help me remember actually what I'm seeing and what
I'm experiencing.
So a lot of times people will say like, Oh, don't don't take pictures like be in the moment,
you know, if I'm in the moment, I'll probably forget it.
(11:29):
But if I'm living the moment while I'm photographing and this is just for me, this isn't the we
also have a massive problem in society where we are over taking pictures of just everything
and we aren't living in the moment.
This is not to say that.
But I know for myself when I'm photographing, there's a certain like, something that helps
(11:52):
my brain to remember the experience that I'm having and to be able to have it to look at
in the future is so precious to me.
So I definitely think that you're on to something that yeah, my photography is a way for me
to just literally help remember my life experience.
(12:14):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
You know, I'm one of those people who I I'm definitely a nostalgia junkie.
Like I very much hold on to a lot of things because because I miss things.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
(12:36):
Like I Yeah, exactly.
Gretchen's nail.
Like that's that's that's it.
Like it's it's it's the thing.
But like I have an app on my phone called time hop, which shows you like your pictures
from like, you know, this this day, you know, and I am like on, I don't know, an embarrassing
number of I haven't missed a day of looking at that app for like 3000 days or something
(13:02):
like that.
It's it's it's it's very rare that a day goes by that I don't go through that app.
And part of that is, you know, that my daughter is 10.
And you know, I have been using it for, you know, a number of years because it helps me
remember like where she was to look back like there were pictures in today's because I've
already gone through today's where we were at Target and she was a baby.
(13:28):
So she's it's she would have been maybe seven or eight months old.
And we had put this this turkey hat on her.
And so it was like these pictures of her in this turkey hat.
And it's like, I have no like actual memory of.
Oh, you have no memory of it.
No, I don't remember.
(13:48):
Yeah, but you have the photo of it.
But I have the photo.
So I know that we did it, but I don't like I'm like, wow, no persistent memory, none
of it.
And for, you know, being a mom and watching like how quickly, you know, everybody talks
it all.
Mom say, you know, go so quick.
And it really it really does.
But when it goes so quick and you have a bad memory.
(14:12):
Yeah, like those pictures become so much more important and so valuable to be able to look
back and say, oh, we were doing this silly thing on this day.
Right.
That I wouldn't have otherwise remembered.
So totally, totally.
And it's not and it's not just the, you know, professional photos that you have done either.
Right.
(14:32):
It's just it's those those day to day moments of just being silly, putting on a turkey hat
and Target.
You know, that's like.
So your your diagnosis, you said was earlier in life.
So tell me a little bit about like how your process went for when you got diagnosed.
I believe I was six years old.
(14:52):
Which.
OK.
Yeah.
It's very young.
Yeah.
I was a very, very fidgety child and I think I still am quite fidgety.
So it was also it was like the mid 90s.
So it was starting to get more common that girls can have ADHD as well as boys.
(15:13):
Yeah.
So I was really lucky on that front.
But yeah, it was my first grade teacher had mentioned to my parents that that she thought
that, you know, maybe an evaluation might be a good idea.
And so my parents were like, oh, yeah, that's like because my home life was also very chaotic.
I was all over the place with just dys dysregulation, essentially.
(15:40):
So my parents were like, yeah, that's a great idea.
And actually, my grandparents were really against the idea of of having an evaluation
done.
And my grandparents were really they were an active part of my life.
(16:00):
So their opinions played a big role.
Yeah.
OK.
And so my grandparents were like, no, she doesn't need an evaluation.
She's really smart.
Right.
No way.
She would there's no way she would have ADHD.
So my parents decided to have the evaluation done anyway, came back exploding with ADHD.
(16:25):
Right.
And my parents continued to kind of like want to say that I didn't have it.
Yeah.
Deny it.
So they had me then go in to test, like have an IQ test done to prove that I didn't have
ADHD.
And like, I'm six years old and I have no like, you know, I have my parents are kind
(16:50):
of like telling me, yep, it's very apparent.
My grandparents are like, no, there's no way.
And I think there's a generational aspect there.
Yes.
So what was happening to me?
But so the other the other really interesting part of this was that so I got diagnosed and
(17:13):
I was put on Ritalin.
And who is my pharmacist?
My grandfather.
Every month that I would go get my medication with my mom, there would be that reminder
from my grandfather.
You don't need this.
You're fine.
(17:34):
Wow.
You don't need this.
I heard from you hearing that because it's like to have a parental adult figure who
is like denying what is that makes it your responsibility.
Right.
Like you don't need this.
You know, it takes away the fact that it's not a failing on your part.
(17:54):
Looking back, when I was at home with my parents, there was no masking that was going on.
They saw the true me.
That's great.
When I was with my grandparents, there was a lot of masking that went on, which I think
is why they were able to so easily dismiss my disorder and and, you know, not want to
(18:17):
accept it.
And part of accepting it through me means that then they have to accept it for themselves
as well.
That now they have a grandchild that has a disorder.
Yes, there's a lot there.
And it just and it just continued through all of elementary school, all of middle school,
all of high school.
And even when I would spend time at my grandparents' house, you know, they would just say like,
(18:40):
you know, oh, you know, you don't need to take your you don't need to take your medicine
today.
So I would actually hide it in my like suitcase that I would bring with them there and just
like I would take it because I knew how much it helped me.
Right.
Yeah.
And it feels like and I'm gonna I'm gonna project a little bit here.
(19:01):
So if this is off base, you'd let me know.
So not only are you getting this from like primary care attachment to people, right,
because we talk about attachment theory, it's clear that your grandparents had a very important
and significant role in your life.
And so you have them having a reaction, I think is based in their own insecurities,
(19:23):
right?
Because it is largely genetic, pretty much proven at this point that it's following our
genes and it's coming from, you know, it's coming from our parents.
And even even with that, we are attracted to people who are spicy brains, too, because
(19:44):
we understand each other.
So the likelihood of I think the statistic I've read is if both parents are neuro spicy,
then it's like an 85% chance that the children are going to be neuro spicy, which is like,
you know, hi.
There's a very, very high likelihood that it's not just your parents, but it's probably
(20:08):
your grandparents as well.
And so to have that like insecurity and to to want to put that control over you and your
experience and deny for you what the medication does, like, oh, there's so many layers there
of difficulty and trauma and kind of pulling out of it.
(20:32):
Do you have a sense of like, and I don't know how raw all of this is for you, because I'm
like, you know, do you have some resolution that you've kind of come to with it?
Or is it still something that kind of resonates for you of like, oh, that still hurts?
I've spent a good amount of time, like trying to look back at different situations that
(20:54):
happened or different things that were said to me with with different eyes, right, and
a different heart to just try to help kind of like understand because I had so much of
my childhood was not understanding what was going on in regards to my disorder.
(21:15):
And I've also spent it's been quite the journey of just like acceptance of my own my own acceptance.
And I would probably say just honestly, within the last like five, maybe 10 years, I'm 36
(21:36):
now.
I'm really, really embracing like I have a disorder.
My brain does not function, quote unquote, normally.
And not only is that something that I need to work with, but actually, maybe it's like
(21:58):
a really beautiful thing.
Yes, maybe maybe it's why, like, I, I don't I'm like, I'm a light, I am like a bright
light.
Yeah, and I've got so much energy, and I've got so much excitement.
And maybe that's not a bad thing.
Maybe I don't need to dim it.
(22:20):
Maybe I don't need to mask be like everything else.
And also, I never spent much time actually understanding what are the nuances of ADHD.
You know, I know the classics, right, like, right, it's really difficult for me to focus.
It's really difficult for me to certain things are very organized, other things are very
(22:44):
disorganized.
You know, and then just fidgeting like I cannot get my hands right now just moving all over
the place.
Yeah.
You know, all of my kind of like sensory.
Right.
What would you say sensitivities, my sensory sensitivities that you know, my clothes, I
(23:09):
get really angry with my clothes and I yeah, socks.
Oh my gosh.
Oh, God.
That's my daughter saying socks are socks are the struggle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And hair hair in my face.
I always have my hair pulled back because you know, I hate it.
Yeah.
Anyway, so like those the the classic ADHD things, you know, I've had an awareness about
(23:32):
but there's there's other things like rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria.
Oh, yes.
It was introduced to this three years ago and I'm like, this is why I think everybody
hates me.
Right.
It's because it's a dysphoria.
I it is.
(23:54):
It's not real.
Right.
It's not.
People actually love me and I think that they hate me.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
I go I oh God, when I was introduced to the concept of RSD, I was like, Oh my God.
This explains so much.
So much of my life.
Yeah.
So much of like why I react the way I react sometimes the way I get overblown, you know,
(24:19):
concepts the way like, you know, that I have this difficulty struggling with.
Like, like you said, like you feel like everybody's mad at you and the likelihood everybody's
mad at you is pretty low.
But yeah, exactly.
And where I experienced it a lot, which has been so helpful is in my work.
When I give someone right the photos that they've hired me to do and if I don't hear
(24:43):
back from them, like immediately I'm like, Oh, they hate their photos.
They hate their photos.
They're so mad.
Yeah.
No, they're busy.
They don't check their email.
Just like me.
I don't know many other.
There's so many other explanations for what we think is.
Yeah.
This is definitely one of the big things that I still struggle with and that I see a lot
(25:07):
of people, you know, late or regular or, you know, normal, not normal early diagnosis.
I don't know.
I don't know what to say there.
Maybe traditional.
Traditionally.
Yeah.
Traditionally diagnosed.
Yeah.
I see that.
I see it very much in some as as one of those things.
And I've been thinking about in terms of, you know, pattern pattern recognition is another
(25:32):
one of the big ones.
Right.
And that's part of what's happening with with the rejection sensitive dysphoria is your
it's rare that the pattern I'm seeing doesn't exist.
Like the pattern is there.
And what I'm starting to understand is the meaning I assigned to it is not always correct.
(25:53):
And because I, you know, I went for so long undiagnosed and, you know, not recognizing
what this was, I have had a higher level of criticism, of critique, of, you know, of negative
statements made to me about who I am and how I behave and this and that that are that that
(26:20):
my my tendency is to see the the the bad meanings.
Right.
And to end to head there.
And because I had anxiety, like I was, you know, I was diagnosed with anxiety.
I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD.
Right.
Because.
Yep.
Yep.
Been there.
Yep.
And it's like, oh, well, where is the anxiety coming from now that I'm on stimulants?
(26:45):
I know that my like I could not believe how much my anxiety went away when I started on
the stimulants.
And it's like it's fascinating.
You know, the physiological nature of some of this has been fascinating.
When you start, especially my age, because I didn't start stimulants until I was 49.
(27:07):
You know, heart blood pressure is, you know, something they start to watch when you're
in your 40s pretty closely.
Right.
And when you go on stims, they're like, let us know if your blood pressure because you
you're going to have to stop this if your blood pressure goes too high.
And it's like, OK, my blood pressure dropped back down to what it was when I was in my
(27:30):
30s.
Because you're more regulated.
I'm regulated because my nervous system is like, oh, so we've been missing for so long.
Yeah.
So I went back down.
So I am on medication that they say raises your blood pressure and has reduced it because
(27:50):
it's something that my body needed and it never really had.
And I never really had this like steady because I'm on an extended release.
So like I have a little bit of it all day long.
And with that extended release came this nervous system regulation that that changed fundamental
parts of my life because like I never knew what it was like to be regulated.
(28:12):
And some of the things that I was using to try to make myself feel regulated, like, let's
say alcohol, for example, I can't drink the same anymore.
I can't drink like I did because now that I have a regulated nervous system, I see how
badly the alcohol dysregulates me.
Yeah.
Touching on the the anxiety portion, even being on medication, like in my teenage years,
(28:38):
they I don't I think I needed to have a switch of medication.
I started getting very anxious.
And so they diagnosed me with anxiety and I started an anxiety med and it wasn't really
working and because I was just I started getting really depressed because I didn't know why
I was so anxious.
(28:59):
And looking back, I'm like, it was my ADHD the whole time.
It was the whole time because I was so anxious about not fitting into the world that was
designed for not me.
Right.
Yes.
You know, I think that that's really common.
Right.
(29:20):
There's it's so tricky, right?
Because all of these diagnosis, there's so many overlaps.
Yeah.
And there's so many different things that could be one thing or another.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I got so much time in, you know, in the evaluation period or excuse me, talking to
(29:41):
your doctor.
It makes sense that there's also a lot of misdiagnosis that happen.
Right.
Oh, absolutely.
For anyone who is considering, you know, if they have ADHD and if they're also suffering
from anxiety, it's I think it's important to really look at the ADHD and see what might
(30:04):
be causing anxious thoughts within within that.
And that's yeah.
For doing looking at that first, because just having the proper medication might take care
of all of your anxieties.
That's the rub, I think.
Right.
And I think a lot of a lot of people, especially a lot of assigned female birth people, right,
(30:27):
who are struggling with all of the other things that go along with ADHD and and the correlation
between what happens to your dopamine production as you enter into perimenopause and and your
estrogen starts dropping and your estrogen levels are related.
(30:49):
Like estrogen helps regulate your dopamine.
So like, you know, ovaries and uterus tend to make things significantly more complicated
for our spicy brains as well.
It's like, you know, yeah.
That's another that's another fascinating thing is, is just I would say within the last
(31:09):
like five years, I've really started looking at exactly the hormone fluctuations throughout
the month and how that plays a role in my mental health.
If somebody would have talked to me about that 20 years ago instead of five years ago,
well, we would have just a breakthrough.
(31:30):
Like by the way, day 20, you are going to be really, really angry.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And you're going to you know, your focus is going to to dip through the month and your
ability to to get things done is linked to, you know, to where you are in your cycle,
because you're not going to have as much dopamine and like, and it's going to ramp up here and
(31:53):
you're going to have this kind of yeah, there are so many different pieces involved.
And sadly, because you know, I just saw a TikTok the other day that was like, oh, this
is what it was like being a girl having autism in the 90s.
And then she's like, just kidding.
They didn't think girls could have autism in the 90s.
Yeah, just kidding.
(32:13):
Because we can have it.
And that's still, you know, there's still that sense of understanding how how assigned
female birth bodies manifest, you know, ADHD.
And it's not just these we're talking right now about physical symptoms, but there are
social, you know, social symptoms, because a lot of that expectation that I imagine you
(32:36):
had with your grandparents is gendered.
Right.
And it is that you are a girl and you're supposed to behave this way because you're a girl.
And I would say a good portion of the, you know, the masking and the people pleasing
that I've struggled with in my life comes from the fact that my mom taught me to be
(32:57):
a specific way because of who I was.
And I always used to fight with her because of course, I've been studying gender.
That's one of my special interests that has, you know, persisted through most of my life.
She would say, because I have three brothers and then I'm the only girl.
And my mom would say things like my boys were boys and my girl was a girl.
And I'm like, yeah, but you treated your boys like boys and you treated me like a girl.
(33:19):
So like, of course we behave differently.
You had different expectations of how I was going to behave versus how my brothers were
going to behave.
And we fulfilled those.
She got so mad at me when my when my daughter's dad would would roughhouse with her.
It's like, she's a girl and I'm like, she's a baby.
(33:40):
Like she needs this just her brain needs this just as much as a boy's does.
Like she needs to understand her body and understand where her body is in space.
And that's part of what roughhousing helps with, you know, she needs to be more gentle
with her.
And I'm like, he doesn't, he's being totally safe and totally fine.
And yeah, yeah, yes, the body.
(34:02):
Yeah.
The overprotectiveness of the physical body and a difference because she was a girl versus,
you know, if she was a boy and that and that also goes to the generational ideas too about
like, you know, her ideas about gender were were much more solid in that, like what her
generation believed was supposed to be.
(34:24):
I have wondered what it would be like for my mom if she's seen as she passed away several
years ago.
So like, I I don't get to explain to her.
Like I see her in such a different light now because I understand that she had undiagnosed
ADHD and had, you know, was treated for anxiety and the medication she was taking for the
anxiety didn't have, you know, great effect because it wasn't really treating the underlying
(34:49):
cause.
So yeah, fascinating.
Yeah.
But I think I want to I want to dig a little bit into something you said kind of a little
bit back, like you're talking about feeling like you're a light and there's so much so
much good, you know, that comes from from having a spicy brain.
And I never want these these conversations to not highlight that there's so much good
(35:12):
that comes from this.
So what is what is something that you feel stands out for you in terms of the skills
you have because you have ADHD and a spicy brain?
Like to be flexible, I think, or just like go with the flow or last minute adaptive.
(35:33):
Yeah, I'm extremely adaptive.
Which sometimes isn't always the case for someone who's neurodiverse, right?
Yeah, right.
Absolutely.
There's a lot of virginity.
Yeah, exactly.
(35:55):
And while sometimes I definitely know the importance of schedules and rigidness, but
I am like I love.
Gosh, I'm just struggling with my words right now.
Yeah, just like going with the flow.
Like I don't know.
(36:16):
It just it every time.
So like, I've just been realizing, like, when I make like a plan, like, OK, this is what
I'm going to do.
This is how it's going to happen.
And I'm just like, it just doesn't work that way.
And so I need to just.
Let it go.
Right.
I'm like, yeah, this is what we actually want anyway.
Right.
(36:36):
So I'm the kind of person who if every day looks exactly the same, I am bored out of
my mind.
Right.
Although it's so tricky, right?
Because routine is really important for someone with ADHD, because that's all that you have
because you don't have like patterns.
Right.
So yeah, I'm a runner.
(36:56):
I can take running as my example.
I do not run at the same time or even close to the same time every day.
I just like run when I'm like, OK, time to time to run.
Right.
Like it's time to be physical now, because I know this is going to help my brain work
with or even not like you're just like clued in and you're like, yeah, I'm that way.
I don't I don't run and walk, but like I'm the same way I can't.
(37:18):
I know people who are like, oh, I get up and I go walk.
And I'm like, good for you.
I'm glad that works for you.
But I like I have to get to the point where I'm like, OK, my brain and my body are ready
to walk now, you know, and it's a different process.
I like to think I have a hard time with routines as well.
I don't I don't follow like loosely.
(37:41):
I have been trying to reframe some of some of that for myself in terms of rituals, like,
you know, OK, let's I I'm really bad about like taking care of my physical body.
Me too.
A lot of the time, right?
Like I need to wash my face.
(38:03):
I need it.
You know, I need to and especially around food and the people who are closest to me
are very hyper aware of like, OK, like I was saw a friend the other day and when they left,
they said, don't forget to eat and I was like, yeah, how did you know I was going to do that?
It's like, remember that pattern recognition you were talking about?
(38:25):
You're not the only one with it.
Like, so I try to think about about it instead of routines, rituals.
And it's like, OK, when I when I go to go to bed at night, I'm taking care of my teeth
because, you know, this is part of the ritual.
And then like, OK, you're going to wash your face.
And because this is this is part of you taking care of yourself.
Like my optometrist just told me if you don't take off your eye makeup, you're going to
(38:48):
lose the ability to wear contacts and you're going to be really unhappy when that happens.
And I'm like, you are correct.
The way that I solved my contact is I just got LASIK because I was like, you know what?
Screw the contacts.
I'm just going to take care of this urgently.
There are ways to deal with this now.
I'm going to do it.
Right.
(39:08):
And that's where, you know, we talk about the ADHD tax, right?
Like I, you know, I struggle with wasting food a lot of the time because I won't know
what the store when I want to eat.
Right.
And I will buy things and then I'll be like, oh, crap, I forgot to cook this and now it's
bad.
Right.
So I'm trying to change good portions of my life to avoid the ADHD tax.
(39:28):
But there are also things like that that we don't talk about in terms of like I I lost
my keys the other day and I I almost never misplaced my keys.
But you know, I took them out of where they normally are and I put them in a different
place and in a way I don't put them and I swear I checked the pocket where I thought
(39:49):
they were and I could not find them there.
And four days later they were in that pocket.
Like I sometimes sometimes it has to be like the universe just like moving things and messing
with you because I'm like, there's how did I check this pocket and not know that they
were here four days ago?
Yeah.
Only thought to check at them again.
(40:09):
And I think about like one of the things that helped me not misplace my keys was the fact
that I now have a car that has keyless entry, which is like the best thing for my ADHD that
has ever existed because I do not have to get the key out in order to make the car function.
And that was a game changer.
And I have another one that's, you know, that's an expensive fix.
(40:31):
Like Lasix is an expensive fix, right?
I mean, although I was going to say contact.
Yeah.
That's a very like privileged thing for me to say.
I will say I used, how I was able to afford that is I used the stimulus money that we
got.
It was like, because I wasn't expecting to receive that money.
(40:53):
And I was like, I'm going to just, I've wanted to do this thing for so long.
And so here's this lump sum of money that I was not expecting.
So that's how I did that.
But I definitely realized that that's a very like privileged thing to say.
But if you are in a position where you can afford it, wow.
Like what a thing to not have to worry about your contacts anymore.
(41:14):
Like an ADHD person, like, whoa.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
It's literally life changing, right?
Like, anyway.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
And that's kind of what I was trying to get to is like all of those like life changing
ADHD accommodations, you know, that I was making to my life before I knew I had ADHD,
(41:35):
you know, the keyless entry in my car.
My washing machine has something called a fan fresh setting where I can run a load and
it will run a fan and periodically tumble my wet clothes so that it doesn't get that
funky smell when you forget to switch it.
(41:55):
That one in particular saves so much time and so much effort and so much energy.
But like the only reason why I got that was because we needed a new washing machine and
I didn't even know, like I didn't know to go look for that.
Like, oh, this is going to help you with this thing for this undiagnosed disability that
you have.
(42:16):
And so it is those things that do tend to be more expensive.
And so I'm in the process of trying to reframe the ADHD tax, not just to be, you know, the
vegetables that are rotting in my fridge that I forgot to cook, but also that like, you
know, surgeries of, you know, other things of, you know, car, keyless entry, whatever
it is, you know, it takes a certain amount of money and a certain amount of privilege.
(42:40):
And that's where, because I struggled with calling it, like you said, you know, recognizing
and accepting that it's a disorder, that it's a disability, that this isn't some like little
flighty thing that I can just fix with a planner, you know, like people want to see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can't you just like make a to do list?
(43:01):
Right.
Would you just check things off your to do list?
And I'm like, no, I forget the to do list exists.
Like I know that's like sat down at my desk here and I'm like, oh, I read out all these
things I was supposed to do this week.
And if any of that.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I do think that there's, there's a lot of that, that, and it's, it's a little, it's
(43:26):
a little heartening for me to know that you got diagnosed early and you're still at this
point in your life where, you know, even with that knowledge at that age, you're still coming
to, to that, that acceptance doesn't, doesn't happen just because of the diagnosis or the
understanding or the depth of understanding doesn't necessarily come from the diagnosis
(43:48):
if it does come earlier in life.
That's, that's a very individualistic thing, right?
But yeah, definitely for myself, accepting my disorder has definitely been a theme my
whole life.
And, and it's just, it's just a journey, you know, it's just, it's still, it's still your
divergent path.
Yeah.
(44:09):
Thank you so much for coming in and chatting with me today.
I've really enjoyed our conversation.
Would you like our listeners to check out your photography or any of your other sort
of online interests?
Let them know where to find you.
Yeah, totally.
My photography website is rachaconsellaphotography.com.
I'm a wedding photographer, but I also sell landscape prints.
(44:32):
So there's a section on my website for landscape photos.
Yeah.
Or you can find me on Instagram at rachaconsella.
Sweet.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I really appreciate you sharing your divergent path and your spicy brain.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been great to be here.
A huge thank you to Rachel for chatting with me today and sharing her story.
(45:03):
Check the show notes for links to her Instagram and website.
Thank you so much for listening.
I'm really glad you're here.
Make sure you subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen and share with your spicy brain
friends.
Follow us on Instagram at Divergent Paths Consulting No Spaces.
And until next time, stay spicy.
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