April 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Divorce often presents a whirlwind of emotions and financial decisions that can leave anyone feeling overwhelmed and uncertain. In this episode, host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator, sits down with financial expert Leah Hadley, who brings two decades of experience to navigate the crossroads of divorce and personal finance. Drawing on her own transformative journey, Leah shares how critical financial planning can lead to empowerment and success during such challenging times.
Join us as we discuss actionable insights and strategies for navigating your financial landscape post-divorce. Remember, financial clarity is possible even amid change! Don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with anyone who might need a little guidance through their financial journey.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
People get tired through the divorce process.
(00:02):
It just it's a lot of change.
It's just there's a lot to it,right, but one of the most
common mistakes that I see ispeople will come and reach out
to me years post-divorce andthey never settled their assets
from the divorce because theyjust kind of put it off.
You know, maybe they wereretirement assets and they
figured retirement was a longway off.
(00:24):
Unfortunately, sometimes theother person passes away.
That becomes very complicated.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches.
I'm your host, keri Jacobson,and this podcast is all about
sharing real-world divorceexperiences and lessons learned
to help you navigate your ownjourney with more confidence and
less stress.
Today, I'm thrilled to welcomemy guest, leah Hadley.
Leah will tell you that she isno stranger to financial
(01:14):
challenges.
She became an adoptive parentto three overnight, got divorced
and built her business from theground up, to name a few.
These were times when carefulfinancial planning was critical
for her peace of mind.
Now an award-winning financialplanner, sought-after speaker,
accredited financial counselorand certified divorce financial
(01:38):
analyst, leah is the founder ofIntentional Wealth Partners and
Intentional Divorce Solutions,as well as the host of
Intentional Wealth Partners andIntentional Divorce Solutions,
as well as the host ofIntentional Divorce Insights
podcast.
She uses her knowledge andnearly 20 years of experience to
help clients make wisefinancial decisions so that they
feel confident in theirfinancial future.
(02:00):
Leah, welcome to the show.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Thank you so much.
It's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Well, I know we haven't talked in a while, but I
would love to learn and sharewith our listeners kind of more
about your journey.
You know, as I described in thebio, you've been through some
significant life changes andtransitions.
Can you tell us how thatjourney has helped you kind of
(02:30):
in your approach to financialplanning in the divorce space?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Absolutely so I actually started in the
financial world in equityresearch, so I was covering
individual stocks forinstitutional investors, and
then I was ready to have afamily and so I left that role,
which required a significantamount of travel, and became a
financial advisor supportingfamilies, individuals, small
(02:58):
businesses, just generalfinancial planning and
investments.
And one of the things that Isaw frequently I had taken over
somebody's book of business wasthat people would go through a
divorce and then they would justblow through their assets
following the divorce and whatit came down to was very poor
planning that they had come toan agreement during the divorce
process.
(03:18):
That just wasn't in their bestinterest long term, and so that
really bothered me.
So I had a friend who was afamily law attorney and I just
wanted to learn more.
She introduced me to howfinancial professionals can
really help people through thedivorce process.
I learned about the CDFAdesignation and then I ended up
going through my own divorce andeven as a financial
(03:41):
professional I was completelyoverwhelmed with the changes in
the finances.
You know, I had three youngchildren at the time and I
stayed in the marital home andit was a lot to be responsible
for and take care of and all ofthat, and so, knowing that I had
a lot of financial expertiseand background and feeling as
(04:02):
overwhelmed as I was, you justsee how important it is to have
somebody really be your guidethrough the process when you're
going through this emotionalturmoil.
And one of the things I quicklylearned was that in the
traditional kind of brokerdealer world financial services,
there's so much complianceregulation that it's very hard
to work with people goingthrough a divorce within that
(04:25):
context, and so ultimately, Istarted my own firm so I could
really meet people where they'reat and help them in a way
that's meaningful.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Awesome and kind of explain how you work with either
couples or individuals who aregoing through that process and
I'm sure that it variesdepending on if you're working
with a couple versus if you'reworking with an individual, as I
know that our work does as wellbut can you kind of explain
what that typically looks like?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Absolutely so.
I either serve as a financialneutral or as a financial
advocate.
Typically, when I'm working asa financial neutral, most of the
time I'm being hired by both ofthe parties to help them
understand their financialsituation, to look at various
scenarios that might ultimatelybe how they divide assets, how
they determine, you know, childsupport, spousal support, those
(05:15):
kinds of things and work withthem to come to a resolution.
When I work as a financialadvocate, sometimes I'm hired by
the individual and sometimesI'm hired by their attorney,
depending on the nature of theircase, in which case it's still
very similar in that I'm helpingthem to understand the
financial picture.
You know, sometimes we'relooking to figure out what's
marital property versus what'snot marital property.
(05:38):
It just depends on the natureof their financial situation.
Sometimes it's just financialcoaching and helping you
understand what is mypost-divorce budget going to
look like?
What do I really need tosupport myself going forward,
how can I reposition my assetsto generate more income, those
kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Wonderful.
I'm going to kind of take eachof those pieces kind of
separately and tie them into.
You know what we work on aswell.
So when you're working with acouple as a neutral, what other
professionals typically are inthat process?
Is it just you and the parties,or are there other
(06:18):
professionals that get involvedin that process?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's a great question.
A lot of times they might beworking with a mediator but they
might need more support around.
Sometimes it's just thefinancial analysis itself, right
, like determining what ismarital property versus
non-marital property, butsometimes it's really looking at
those different scenarios,looking at the projections of
how we divide things and thatsort of thing.
(06:42):
So sometimes it's just sort ofsupporting that mediation
process.
Sometimes people are goingthrough the collaborative
divorce process where they eachhave their own collaboratively
trained attorney and then I cansupport that financial analysis
to really help everybodyunderstand the financial piece
of it.
You know, a lot of times peopledon't think about it, but when
(07:03):
you're going through yourdivorce it's often the biggest
financial transaction of yourlife and really having that
financial expert help you tounderstand what are the tax
implications of the decisionsthat we're making, what is the
impact both short and long termon these decisions, you know,
looking at it through that lens,really supporting the other
professionals through this.
(07:23):
So we don't provide legaladvice or anything like that,
but really help peopleunderstand the financials and
then encourage them to havetheir attorneys support them
with the legal guidance.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, so very similar .
I find that when we're workingwith couples in a mediation
setting, many times they'recoming to us because they don't
want to have attorneys involvedbecause of, you know, the
typical stigma of how that'sgoing to complicate things, and
as an attorney I know that andso you know.
(07:55):
But there are times where theirfinancial structure, their
assets, the support that mightbe involved, really gets
complicated and as a legalmediator I don't always feel
equipped to handle all of thoseaspects and often will recommend
(08:15):
that they talk to a financialneutral to handle the financial
side, kind of reach an agreementon that piece, then bring that
back to the mediation table sothat it can be included in their
agreement and so that there'sno surprises going forward.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
And again, it really isn'tabout, you know, stepping on
anybody's toes or anything likethat.
It's really about making surethat the parties feel supported
and these are importantdecisions that they're making
and making sure that they'reinformed.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's, you know, making
sure they have the full teamthat they need, and sometimes
that will include havingattorneys so that they get that
legal advice first before theykind of go into those
negotiations and can makeinformed decisions.
But they have that as like thatlegal backdrop and then using a
(09:12):
financial neutral on a mediatorto really be the process for
which they actually come to anagreement.
Yeah, for which they actuallycome to an agreement.
Yeah, in your work as a CDFAprimarily, I would assume, when
you're working with anindividual, I'm sure you have
seen countless financialmistakes that people have made
(09:34):
during divorce.
What would you say are some ofthose biggest financial pitfalls
that you see and how can peopleavoid them?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, one of the biggest ones, and I really fully
understand where it comes from.
People get tired through thedivorce process.
It just it's a lot of change.
It's just there's a lot to it,right.
But one of the most commonmistakes that I see is people
will come and reach out to meyears post-divorce and they
(10:04):
never settled their assets fromthe divorce because they just
kind of put it off.
You know, maybe they wereretirement assets and they
figured retirement was a longway off.
Unfortunately, sometimes theother person passes away.
That becomes very complicated.
Sometimes accounts get movedand we end up having to do
further analysis to determinewhat that person is actually
owed at this point.
(10:25):
And so if you take one piece ofadvice, it would be to just go
ahead and settle, tie up allyour loose ends as soon as you
can post a divorce, because thatis a very, very expensive.
I mean, there are people whowe've seen lose tens of
thousands of dollars as a resultof just not getting that done.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, I always recommend that.
You know, best practice is togo ahead and get those
retirement orders done at thetime of the divorce, have them
signed and have those you knowsent off.
You may not see the, you know,especially when we're dealing
with pensions and stuff.
You may not actually see thatmoney anytime soon, but at least
(11:08):
at least you can rest assuredthat it's taken care of, right.
But, like you mentioned, thereare scenarios where people don't
do that.
The spouse passes away, theyhave updated the beneficiary
Right and now the beneficiarycontrols and that other person
(11:29):
may not necessarily receive theassets that they were entitled
to, and it's very unfortunate.
But one of those things toabsolutely do, yeah.
And then the other thing thatkind of ties into that, which is
I'm sure you see this on thefinancial planning side having
(11:49):
people update and do theirestate plans.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh for sure.
Yeah, again, it's same thing.
Right Is that you're tired.
You've already been, maybe,dealing with an attorney through
the divorce.
You don't necessarily want morelegal bills, but it's really
about having a say in.
You know how things willtransition, and not even just if
(12:13):
you were to pass away, but whatif you become incapacitated?
Now you don't necessarily havethis default partner who's going
to be taking responsibility,who's going to step in, you know
, and so it really is importantthat people follow through on
those things.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Obviously, divorce is probably one of the most
financially disruptive events ina person's life, you know,
without it being a loss of jobor something along those lines
or getting sick, but itdefinitely can be one of those
top ones For someone who isgoing through the process.
What was, what would be one ofthe first financial steps you
(12:52):
think or would recommend thatthey take?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, the first step is just to gather your
information.
Carrie, I can't tell you howmany people I've seen over the
years who have just weeded andweeded and weeded and not move
forward with a divorce becausethey were really afraid to deal
with the financial change, thefinancial aspects.
They didn't necessarily knowwhat their financial situation
was, to know what it would looklike if they were to divide
(13:16):
things.
And in some cases I'll tell you,I'll sit down with somebody and
I'll kind of walk through thefinances and I'll say you know,
if you're able to stay togetherand save more money and pay down
more debt, that might bebeneficial and leave you in a
better position going forward.
But there are some people whoyou're going to be just fine and
it was just that fear of evenlooking at the numbers that
(13:38):
allow them you know, once theysee that to move forward and to
be in a healthy relationshipmoving forward.
So it's really really importantto have clarity around the
numbers.
Now, one of the challenges, ofcourse, is you may or may not
have access to the financialinformation, and that's
different in every household.
You know who has access and whodoesn't, but you know the more
(14:00):
that you can be communicatingaround the finances, talking
about financial goals.
You're doing retirementplanning together.
Taking in all that informationis just going to be a really
important start to helping youknow what this next phase of
your life is going to look like.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
I agree that in many situations.
I agree that in many situations, one of the biggest hurdles is
that fear of the unknown Rightand simply taking the steps to
find out what that's going tolook like.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah, strategies to ensure a fair division of assets
, especially when one person, orone spouse has been the one to
really handle the finances overthe course of the marriage.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, it's really important again to understand
your financial situation, toeven know what's going to be
quote fair, right.
Also important to do it withinthe context of the laws in your
state, because what's fair inOhio might not be fair in
Maryland, right, and so reallyunderstanding that and being
educated around that so thatyou're making good decisions.
(15:10):
But where I see and it honestlyoften surprises me where I see
people not getting fairsettlements and not even
realizing it, is that they don'tunderstand the tax implications
associated with the decisionsthat they're making.
Right, and so if they don'tunderstand and they're taking a
particular asset and planning,you know, to liquidate that
asset and creating a significanttax liability, well, suddenly
(15:32):
the value of what they'rereceiving is significantly less
than what they thought they hadgotten.
Right, and I will tell you,this happens to very
well-educated people.
This is not, like you know,people who don't know better.
I see it all the time where youknow one of the parties gets
most of the Roth retirementaccount money which is post-tax,
after-tax money, and anotherparty gets more of that pre-tax
(15:56):
retirement money.
Well, those are not worth thesame thing on paper, right?
You really have to consider thetax issues.
I see people who fight to keepthe house, then turn around and
sell it and have to pay thecapital gains tax on the
increase.
So, really, it's so importantthat you really understand the
whole financial picture.
(16:16):
What changes you're going to bemaking and what that means for
you longer term and those taxliabilities that could come up
are really, really important.
The other thing, though, isjust to keep in mind that fair
is in the eye of the beholderand, honestly, nobody really
going through a divorce feelslike it's fair.
You know, on some level,there's some piece of it that's
(16:38):
unfair.
What I really encourage peopleto do is understand their
financial situation and makesure they're going to be okay,
make sure that they have a plangoing forward.
It might not be perfect, but atleast they can feel confident
in their next steps.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Right and going into it, knowing the correct
decisions to make based on whattheir needs are, as well as you
know those tax implicationsexactly yeah, yeah, you know,
when we're dealing with Rothversus those pre-tax things, I
(17:14):
very much try to keep them intheir own individual pots.
You know, we deal with Roth IRAsseparately over here and then
we deal with those pre-taxdollars over there.
But oftentimes the two biggestassets you know a couple has are
those retirement accounts andthen the values of the house a
(17:36):
couple has are those retirementaccounts and then the values of
the house.
And so I think what I typicallyfind often is one person wants
to stay in the house and sothey're almost kind of
exchanging part of the equitythere for what a part of their
portion of the retirement couldbe.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
The retirement could be, and so that takes into a
whole different tax implicationand long term planning Exactly,
and that's you know.
When we were talking aboutpitfalls earlier, that is a very
common pitfall is to maintain ahome that you can't afford and
with interest rates having goneup, a lot of people have a
fantastic interest rate on theirmortgage and you really have to
factor in all theconsiderations If you have to
refinance, if you have to buythat person out of their equity
(18:20):
in the home.
It's a very different picturethan it was just a few years ago
when we were working on divorcecases, with the lower interest
rate environment and people haveto make some tough decisions.
But keeping a house that youcan't afford really being cash
strapped, it just doesn't giveyou as much freedom and
flexibility.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Right, yeah, it's.
It's really hard decision tomake for sure.
How would you approachconversations about the
long-term financial security,including that tax planning, for
folks who are, at you know,going through a divorce, but
looking that long term and postdivorce?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, so it's so important.
Especially, you know, we dealwith more and more cases where
people are at retirement oralready retired and they're
going through a divorce.
So it's very differentconversation about retirement
when you're no longer savingright, when you're no longer
saving right, when you're nolonger earning income toward
that retirement, and especiallyif you had planned jointly for
(19:19):
one household.
Now, sometimes people plan formore than one household in
retirement.
That does make it a littleeasier.
But if you had planned for onehousehold and now two households
need to be supported and it'svery hard, you know, at your age
to go back to work, to reenterthe workforce, that kind of a
thing can be really, reallychallenging.
And so I really encouragepeople to understand okay, if
(19:43):
we're giving up retirementassets, what is that going to
mean for me long term?
Am I in a position, do I havethe earnings capacity, to
replace that retirement money?
Am I in a position like,depending on how many years left
I have the earnings capacity toreplace that retirement money?
Am I in a position like,depending on how many years left
I have until retirement, do Ihave time to replenish them?
You know, looking at all ofthose factors and also looking
(20:05):
at who else is going to bedepending on you financially.
Right, you know.
Are you caring for an agingparent?
Do you still have an adultchild that needs support?
You know, depending on wherepeople are, it's just such an
important consideration.
You know it's easierconversation with people who are
younger, who just have time ontheir side, and reentering the
workforce might be easier ifthey're not in the workforce or
(20:28):
looking at ways to increasetheir earnings capacity.
You know there's moreflexibility there.
But as people get closer andcloser to retirement or are in
retirement, it's a littletrickier.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yes, those gray divorce situations.
They're definitely differentthings for us to look at, both
from a legal standpoint as wellas that financial planning
perspective.
Absolutely legal standpoint aswell as that financial planning
perspective?
Absolutely, I'm sure that youhave some real life success
stories, because you know wealways want to offer hope to an
(21:03):
inspiration to our listeners.
Can you share a story about aclient who you know transformed
their financial future afterworking with you through a
divorce process?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Absolutely.
I've seen so manytransformations, which is just a
lot of fun, quite frankly, butone of the ones I'll talk about
you know this was unfortunate.
It was a very high conflictdivorce, and you know there was
a significant age differencebetween the parties, so there
was quite a bit of separateproperty that husband was
(21:34):
walking away with, and wife, whowas the primary earner at that
point, was significantly youngerand walking away with a whole
lot less.
So she was very concerned aboutreplenishing for retirement, and
so what we really talked aboutis how could she increase her
earnings capacity?
What could she do to reallyadjust the trajectory of her
(21:58):
financial picture?
And so what we decided was toactually take some of her
divorce settlement and invest itin her education ways to invest
right, but one of those ways isto invest in yourself and to
look at how can I positionmyself for the rest of my career
to be making more money so Ican save more for retirement and
(22:21):
I can still have the lifestylethat I was planning for.
And so she is actually wrappingup school right now.
She has a job offer that issubstantially higher than where
she was at prior to investing inthis additional program, and I
think the trajectory just lookswonderful for her.
I'm really excited for her.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, that's so wonderful, but I do think people
overlook that option ofinvesting in yourself and
getting those additional piecesof education.
Not that it has to be formaleducation and like a master's or
a PhD right, but even justlearning a new skill that will
(23:02):
help you position yourself in abetter light, that could
exponentially increase yourincome, which is going to, you
know, set you up more securelyfinancially going forward.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I'll tell you one other quick one.
This was a woman who I wasworking with, who she was just
underpaid, and so she was reallystruggling post-divorce with
her financial situation andtrying to figure out like they
still had some legal bills theywere dealing with.
It was, it was kind of a messysituation.
And I said to her you know,because I work with a lot of
people, so I see why people getpaid and I said to her you know,
(23:37):
why don't you either talk toyour employer about additional
compensation or look at addition, the same role at other
companies?
Because you're just notcompensated appropriately right
now.
She was able to double, doubleher compensation within a year.
I mean night and day, for herfinancial situation.
(23:58):
She had a little one at home, Imean it made such a huge
difference and it wasn't evengetting an additional skill.
And I'll tell you how ithappened was that she had kind
of learned on the job and so,because she had walked within a
company and hadn't been hired indirectly for the role that she
was in, they had just alwaysbeen kind of underpaying her as
she had been gathering theseadditional skills and she just
(24:21):
didn't realize it.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Right, yeah, and then if you move to another company
many times you will actually becompensated more fairly and then
it's easier to increase prettyrapidly.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah, if someone's listening today and is feeling
overwhelmed about theirfinancial situation, what's one
piece of encouragement that youwould give them?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah.
So I really encourage peoplewho are feeling overwhelmed to
get stuff out of their head andto write it down.
So what are you actuallyfeeling overwhelmed about?
Are you worried about payingthe bills?
If you're worried about payingthe bills, let's get super
crystal clear on what bills arecoming up, what income is coming
in and is there a gap.
(25:12):
If there's a gap, let's createa plan to fill that gap.
Right, and I think the morethat you can really have a plan
to address these concerns.
Sometimes they're just worriesthat kind of keep you up at
night, but they're not reallybased in reality.
So when you actually go throughthe numbers, all right, I'm
okay.
Like I might not be ascomfortable as I was before,
maybe I can't afford some of thelifestyle things that I could
(25:34):
before, but I can comfortablypay my bills every month and I'm
okay and I don't need to bequite so worried.
Right.
But sometimes we have to make aserious change.
You know I've worked with peoplewho have had to get out of car
leases or, you know, downsizetheir home or, you know, do some
big changes to their fixedexpenses to be able to be in a
more comfortable position.
(25:55):
Most of the time when I, when Ihear people are financial
overwhelmed, it's typically acashflow issue most of the time.
And so that's you know, moneycoming in versus money going out
.
And how confident do you feellike you have more money coming
in than going out.
But it's an equation, right,and so we can get down to the
bottom of well, do we haveenough to cover everything and
(26:17):
if not, what changes need tohappen?
And again, the more you justwrite that down and have a plan
around it, the more it reducesthat overwhelm.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, I think anytime we're putting it to paper and
seeing the actual numbers canreally reduce a lot of that
anxiety.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Well, it's been such an insightful conversation.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Before we wrap up, can youshare how our listeners can
connect with you and access yourresources?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Absolutely so.
I have tons and tons of freeresources on my website that I
do hope people will takeadvantage of, because we put a
lot of work into providingresources for people.
You can go tointentionaldivorcecom and access
all the free resources on ourwebsite.
There's a link to the podcast,Intentional Divorce Insights
there, which we've had wonderfulguests, including Carrie, who
(27:11):
give a lot of good information.
Just lots of free content.
So I encourage people to takeadvantage of those things.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, leah, foryour wisdom and helping people
navigate the divorce withconfidence.
And to all of our listeners,remember financial clarity is
possible even in the midst ofchange.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please be sure to
subscribe, leave a review andshare this podcast with anyone
who might need it.
Until next time, take care andkeep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
Divorce Diaries.
Remember, every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
But you don't have to navigateit alone.
Visit JacobsonFamilyLawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
People get tired through the divorce process.
(00:02):
It just it's a lot of change.
It's just there's a lot to it,right, but one of the most
common mistakes that I see ispeople will come and reach out
to me years post-divorce andthey never settled their assets
from the divorce because theyjust kind of put it off.
You know, maybe they wereretirement assets and they
figured retirement was a longway off.
(00:24):
Unfortunately, sometimes theother person passes away.
That becomes very complicated.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches.
I'm your host, keri Jacobson,and this podcast is all about
sharing real-world divorceexperiences and lessons learned
to help you navigate your ownjourney with more confidence and
less stress.
Today, I'm thrilled to welcomemy guest, leah Hadley.
Leah will tell you that she isno stranger to financial
(01:14):
challenges.
She became an adoptive parentto three overnight, got divorced
and built her business from theground up, to name a few.
These were times when carefulfinancial planning was critical
for her peace of mind.
Now an award-winning financialplanner, sought-after speaker,
accredited financial counselorand certified divorce financial
(01:38):
analyst, leah is the founder ofIntentional Wealth Partners and
Intentional Divorce Solutions,as well as the host of
Intentional Wealth Partners andIntentional Divorce Solutions,
as well as the host ofIntentional Divorce Insights
podcast.
She uses her knowledge andnearly 20 years of experience to
help clients make wisefinancial decisions so that they
feel confident in theirfinancial future.
(02:00):
Leah, welcome to the show.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Thank you so much.
It's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Well, I know we haven't talked in a while, but I
would love to learn and sharewith our listeners kind of more
about your journey.
You know, as I described in thebio, you've been through some
significant life changes andtransitions.
Can you tell us how thatjourney has helped you kind of
(02:30):
in your approach to financialplanning in the divorce space?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Absolutely so I actually started in the
financial world in equityresearch, so I was covering
individual stocks forinstitutional investors, and
then I was ready to have afamily and so I left that role,
which required a significantamount of travel, and became a
financial advisor supportingfamilies, individuals, small
(02:58):
businesses, just generalfinancial planning and
investments.
And one of the things that Isaw frequently I had taken over
somebody's book of business wasthat people would go through a
divorce and then they would justblow through their assets
following the divorce and whatit came down to was very poor
planning that they had come toan agreement during the divorce
process.
(03:18):
That just wasn't in their bestinterest long term, and so that
really bothered me.
So I had a friend who was afamily law attorney and I just
wanted to learn more.
She introduced me to howfinancial professionals can
really help people through thedivorce process.
I learned about the CDFAdesignation and then I ended up
going through my own divorce andeven as a financial
(03:41):
professional I was completelyoverwhelmed with the changes in
the finances.
You know, I had three youngchildren at the time and I
stayed in the marital home andit was a lot to be responsible
for and take care of and all ofthat, and so, knowing that I had
a lot of financial expertiseand background and feeling as
(04:02):
overwhelmed as I was, you justsee how important it is to have
somebody really be your guidethrough the process when you're
going through this emotionalturmoil.
And one of the things I quicklylearned was that in the
traditional kind of brokerdealer world financial services,
there's so much complianceregulation that it's very hard
to work with people goingthrough a divorce within that
(04:25):
context, and so ultimately, Istarted my own firm so I could
really meet people where they'reat and help them in a way
that's meaningful.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Awesome and kind of explain how you work with either
couples or individuals who aregoing through that process and
I'm sure that it variesdepending on if you're working
with a couple versus if you'reworking with an individual, as I
know that our work does as wellbut can you kind of explain
what that typically looks like?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Absolutely so.
I either serve as a financialneutral or as a financial
advocate.
Typically, when I'm working asa financial neutral, most of the
time I'm being hired by both ofthe parties to help them
understand their financialsituation, to look at various
scenarios that might ultimatelybe how they divide assets, how
they determine, you know, childsupport, spousal support, those
(05:15):
kinds of things and work withthem to come to a resolution.
When I work as a financialadvocate, sometimes I'm hired by
the individual and sometimesI'm hired by their attorney,
depending on the nature of theircase, in which case it's still
very similar in that I'm helpingthem to understand the
financial picture.
You know, sometimes we'relooking to figure out what's
marital property versus what'snot marital property.
(05:38):
It just depends on the natureof their financial situation.
Sometimes it's just financialcoaching and helping you
understand what is mypost-divorce budget going to
look like?
What do I really need tosupport myself going forward,
how can I reposition my assetsto generate more income, those
kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Wonderful.
I'm going to kind of take eachof those pieces kind of
separately and tie them into.
You know what we work on aswell.
So when you're working with acouple as a neutral, what other
professionals typically are inthat process?
Is it just you and the parties,or are there other
(06:18):
professionals that get involvedin that process?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's a great question.
A lot of times they might beworking with a mediator but they
might need more support around.
Sometimes it's just thefinancial analysis itself, right
, like determining what ismarital property versus
non-marital property, butsometimes it's really looking at
those different scenarios,looking at the projections of
how we divide things and thatsort of thing.
(06:42):
So sometimes it's just sort ofsupporting that mediation
process.
Sometimes people are goingthrough the collaborative
divorce process where they eachhave their own collaboratively
trained attorney and then I cansupport that financial analysis
to really help everybodyunderstand the financial piece
of it.
You know, a lot of times peopledon't think about it, but when
(07:03):
you're going through yourdivorce it's often the biggest
financial transaction of yourlife and really having that
financial expert help you tounderstand what are the tax
implications of the decisionsthat we're making, what is the
impact both short and long termon these decisions, you know,
looking at it through that lens,really supporting the other
professionals through this.
(07:23):
So we don't provide legaladvice or anything like that,
but really help peopleunderstand the financials and
then encourage them to havetheir attorneys support them
with the legal guidance.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, so very similar .
I find that when we're workingwith couples in a mediation
setting, many times they'recoming to us because they don't
want to have attorneys involvedbecause of, you know, the
typical stigma of how that'sgoing to complicate things, and
as an attorney I know that andso you know.
(07:55):
But there are times where theirfinancial structure, their
assets, the support that mightbe involved, really gets
complicated and as a legalmediator I don't always feel
equipped to handle all of thoseaspects and often will recommend
(08:15):
that they talk to a financialneutral to handle the financial
side, kind of reach an agreementon that piece, then bring that
back to the mediation table sothat it can be included in their
agreement and so that there'sno surprises going forward.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
And again, it really isn'tabout, you know, stepping on
anybody's toes or anything likethat.
It's really about making surethat the parties feel supported
and these are importantdecisions that they're making
and making sure that they'reinformed.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's, you know, making
sure they have the full teamthat they need, and sometimes
that will include havingattorneys so that they get that
legal advice first before theykind of go into those
negotiations and can makeinformed decisions.
But they have that as like thatlegal backdrop and then using a
(09:12):
financial neutral on a mediatorto really be the process for
which they actually come to anagreement.
Yeah, for which they actuallycome to an agreement.
Yeah, in your work as a CDFAprimarily, I would assume, when
you're working with anindividual, I'm sure you have
seen countless financialmistakes that people have made
(09:34):
during divorce.
What would you say are some ofthose biggest financial pitfalls
that you see and how can peopleavoid them?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, one of the biggest ones, and I really fully
understand where it comes from.
People get tired through thedivorce process.
It just it's a lot of change.
It's just there's a lot to it,right.
But one of the most commonmistakes that I see is people
will come and reach out to meyears post-divorce and they
(10:04):
never settled their assets fromthe divorce because they just
kind of put it off.
You know, maybe they wereretirement assets and they
figured retirement was a longway off.
Unfortunately, sometimes theother person passes away.
That becomes very complicated.
Sometimes accounts get movedand we end up having to do
further analysis to determinewhat that person is actually
owed at this point.
(10:25):
And so if you take one piece ofadvice, it would be to just go
ahead and settle, tie up allyour loose ends as soon as you
can post a divorce, because thatis a very, very expensive.
I mean, there are people whowe've seen lose tens of
thousands of dollars as a resultof just not getting that done.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, I always recommend that.
You know, best practice is togo ahead and get those
retirement orders done at thetime of the divorce, have them
signed and have those you knowsent off.
You may not see the, you know,especially when we're dealing
with pensions and stuff.
You may not actually see thatmoney anytime soon, but at least
(11:08):
at least you can rest assuredthat it's taken care of, right.
But, like you mentioned, thereare scenarios where people don't
do that.
The spouse passes away, theyhave updated the beneficiary
Right and now the beneficiarycontrols and that other person
(11:29):
may not necessarily receive theassets that they were entitled
to, and it's very unfortunate.
But one of those things toabsolutely do, yeah.
And then the other thing thatkind of ties into that, which is
I'm sure you see this on thefinancial planning side having
(11:49):
people update and do theirestate plans.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh for sure.
Yeah, again, it's same thing.
Right Is that you're tired.
You've already been, maybe,dealing with an attorney through
the divorce.
You don't necessarily want morelegal bills, but it's really
about having a say in.
You know how things willtransition, and not even just if
(12:13):
you were to pass away, but whatif you become incapacitated?
Now you don't necessarily havethis default partner who's going
to be taking responsibility,who's going to step in, you know
, and so it really is importantthat people follow through on
those things.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Obviously, divorce is probably one of the most
financially disruptive events ina person's life, you know,
without it being a loss of jobor something along those lines
or getting sick, but itdefinitely can be one of those
top ones For someone who isgoing through the process.
What was, what would be one ofthe first financial steps you
(12:52):
think or would recommend thatthey take?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, the first step is just to gather your
information.
Carrie, I can't tell you howmany people I've seen over the
years who have just weeded andweeded and weeded and not move
forward with a divorce becausethey were really afraid to deal
with the financial change, thefinancial aspects.
They didn't necessarily knowwhat their financial situation
was, to know what it would looklike if they were to divide
(13:16):
things.
And in some cases I'll tell you,I'll sit down with somebody and
I'll kind of walk through thefinances and I'll say you know,
if you're able to stay togetherand save more money and pay down
more debt, that might bebeneficial and leave you in a
better position going forward.
But there are some people whoyou're going to be just fine and
it was just that fear of evenlooking at the numbers that
(13:38):
allow them you know, once theysee that to move forward and to
be in a healthy relationshipmoving forward.
So it's really really importantto have clarity around the
numbers.
Now, one of the challenges, ofcourse, is you may or may not
have access to the financialinformation, and that's
different in every household.
You know who has access and whodoesn't, but you know the more
(14:00):
that you can be communicatingaround the finances, talking
about financial goals.
You're doing retirementplanning together.
Taking in all that informationis just going to be a really
important start to helping youknow what this next phase of
your life is going to look like.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
I agree that in many situations.
I agree that in many situations, one of the biggest hurdles is
that fear of the unknown Rightand simply taking the steps to
find out what that's going tolook like.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah, strategies to ensure a fair division of assets
, especially when one person, orone spouse has been the one to
really handle the finances overthe course of the marriage.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, it's really important again to understand
your financial situation, toeven know what's going to be
quote fair, right.
Also important to do it withinthe context of the laws in your
state, because what's fair inOhio might not be fair in
Maryland, right, and so reallyunderstanding that and being
educated around that so thatyou're making good decisions.
(15:10):
But where I see and it honestlyoften surprises me where I see
people not getting fairsettlements and not even
realizing it, is that they don'tunderstand the tax implications
associated with the decisionsthat they're making.
Right, and so if they don'tunderstand and they're taking a
particular asset and planning,you know, to liquidate that
asset and creating a significanttax liability, well, suddenly
(15:32):
the value of what they'rereceiving is significantly less
than what they thought they hadgotten.
Right, and I will tell you,this happens to very
well-educated people.
This is not, like you know,people who don't know better.
I see it all the time where youknow one of the parties gets
most of the Roth retirementaccount money which is post-tax,
after-tax money, and anotherparty gets more of that pre-tax
(15:56):
retirement money.
Well, those are not worth thesame thing on paper, right?
You really have to consider thetax issues.
I see people who fight to keepthe house, then turn around and
sell it and have to pay thecapital gains tax on the
increase.
So, really, it's so importantthat you really understand the
whole financial picture.
(16:16):
What changes you're going to bemaking and what that means for
you longer term and those taxliabilities that could come up
are really, really important.
The other thing, though, isjust to keep in mind that fair
is in the eye of the beholderand, honestly, nobody really
going through a divorce feelslike it's fair.
You know, on some level,there's some piece of it that's
(16:38):
unfair.
What I really encourage peopleto do is understand their
financial situation and makesure they're going to be okay,
make sure that they have a plangoing forward.
It might not be perfect, but atleast they can feel confident
in their next steps.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Right and going into it, knowing the correct
decisions to make based on whattheir needs are, as well as you
know those tax implicationsexactly yeah, yeah, you know,
when we're dealing with Rothversus those pre-tax things, I
(17:14):
very much try to keep them intheir own individual pots.
You know, we deal with Roth IRAsseparately over here and then
we deal with those pre-taxdollars over there.
But oftentimes the two biggestassets you know a couple has are
those retirement accounts andthen the values of the house a
(17:36):
couple has are those retirementaccounts and then the values of
the house.
And so I think what I typicallyfind often is one person wants
to stay in the house and sothey're almost kind of
exchanging part of the equitythere for what a part of their
portion of the retirement couldbe.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
The retirement could be, and so that takes into a
whole different tax implicationand long term planning Exactly,
and that's you know.
When we were talking aboutpitfalls earlier, that is a very
common pitfall is to maintain ahome that you can't afford and
with interest rates having goneup, a lot of people have a
fantastic interest rate on theirmortgage and you really have to
factor in all theconsiderations If you have to
refinance, if you have to buythat person out of their equity
(18:20):
in the home.
It's a very different picturethan it was just a few years ago
when we were working on divorcecases, with the lower interest
rate environment and people haveto make some tough decisions.
But keeping a house that youcan't afford really being cash
strapped, it just doesn't giveyou as much freedom and
flexibility.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Right, yeah, it's.
It's really hard decision tomake for sure.
How would you approachconversations about the
long-term financial security,including that tax planning, for
folks who are, at you know,going through a divorce, but
looking that long term and postdivorce?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, so it's so important.
Especially, you know, we dealwith more and more cases where
people are at retirement oralready retired and they're
going through a divorce.
So it's very differentconversation about retirement
when you're no longer savingright, when you're no longer
saving right, when you're nolonger earning income toward
that retirement, and especiallyif you had planned jointly for
(19:19):
one household.
Now, sometimes people plan formore than one household in
retirement.
That does make it a littleeasier.
But if you had planned for onehousehold and now two households
need to be supported and it'svery hard, you know, at your age
to go back to work, to reenterthe workforce, that kind of a
thing can be really, reallychallenging.
And so I really encouragepeople to understand okay, if
(19:43):
we're giving up retirementassets, what is that going to
mean for me long term?
Am I in a position, do I havethe earnings capacity, to
replace that retirement money?
Am I in a position like,depending on how many years left
I have the earnings capacity toreplace that retirement money?
Am I in a position like,depending on how many years left
I have until retirement, do Ihave time to replenish them?
You know, looking at all ofthose factors and also looking
(20:05):
at who else is going to bedepending on you financially.
Right, you know.
Are you caring for an agingparent?
Do you still have an adultchild that needs support?
You know, depending on wherepeople are, it's just such an
important consideration.
You know it's easierconversation with people who are
younger, who just have time ontheir side, and reentering the
workforce might be easier ifthey're not in the workforce or
(20:28):
looking at ways to increasetheir earnings capacity.
You know there's moreflexibility there.
But as people get closer andcloser to retirement or are in
retirement, it's a littletrickier.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yes, those gray divorce situations.
They're definitely differentthings for us to look at, both
from a legal standpoint as wellas that financial planning
perspective.
Absolutely legal standpoint aswell as that financial planning
perspective?
Absolutely, I'm sure that youhave some real life success
stories, because you know wealways want to offer hope to an
(21:03):
inspiration to our listeners.
Can you share a story about aclient who you know transformed
their financial future afterworking with you through a
divorce process?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Absolutely.
I've seen so manytransformations, which is just a
lot of fun, quite frankly, butone of the ones I'll talk about
you know this was unfortunate.
It was a very high conflictdivorce, and you know there was
a significant age differencebetween the parties, so there
was quite a bit of separateproperty that husband was
(21:34):
walking away with, and wife, whowas the primary earner at that
point, was significantly youngerand walking away with a whole
lot less.
So she was very concerned aboutreplenishing for retirement, and
so what we really talked aboutis how could she increase her
earnings capacity?
What could she do to reallyadjust the trajectory of her
(21:58):
financial picture?
And so what we decided was toactually take some of her
divorce settlement and invest itin her education ways to invest
right, but one of those ways isto invest in yourself and to
look at how can I positionmyself for the rest of my career
to be making more money so Ican save more for retirement and
(22:21):
I can still have the lifestylethat I was planning for.
And so she is actually wrappingup school right now.
She has a job offer that issubstantially higher than where
she was at prior to investing inthis additional program, and I
think the trajectory just lookswonderful for her.
I'm really excited for her.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, that's so wonderful, but I do think people
overlook that option ofinvesting in yourself and
getting those additional piecesof education.
Not that it has to be formaleducation and like a master's or
a PhD right, but even justlearning a new skill that will
(23:02):
help you position yourself in abetter light, that could
exponentially increase yourincome, which is going to, you
know, set you up more securelyfinancially going forward.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I'll tell you one other quick one.
This was a woman who I wasworking with, who she was just
underpaid, and so she was reallystruggling post-divorce with
her financial situation andtrying to figure out like they
still had some legal bills theywere dealing with.
It was, it was kind of a messysituation.
And I said to her you know,because I work with a lot of
people, so I see why people getpaid and I said to her you know,
(23:37):
why don't you either talk toyour employer about additional
compensation or look at addition, the same role at other
companies?
Because you're just notcompensated appropriately right
now.
She was able to double, doubleher compensation within a year.
I mean night and day, for herfinancial situation.
(23:58):
She had a little one at home, Imean it made such a huge
difference and it wasn't evengetting an additional skill.
And I'll tell you how ithappened was that she had kind
of learned on the job and so,because she had walked within a
company and hadn't been hired indirectly for the role that she
was in, they had just alwaysbeen kind of underpaying her as
she had been gathering theseadditional skills and she just
(24:21):
didn't realize it.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Right, yeah, and then if you move to another company
many times you will actually becompensated more fairly and then
it's easier to increase prettyrapidly.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah, if someone's listening today and is feeling
overwhelmed about theirfinancial situation, what's one
piece of encouragement that youwould give them?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah.
So I really encourage peoplewho are feeling overwhelmed to
get stuff out of their head andto write it down.
So what are you actuallyfeeling overwhelmed about?
Are you worried about payingthe bills?
If you're worried about payingthe bills, let's get super
crystal clear on what bills arecoming up, what income is coming
in and is there a gap.
(25:12):
If there's a gap, let's createa plan to fill that gap.
Right, and I think the morethat you can really have a plan
to address these concerns.
Sometimes they're just worriesthat kind of keep you up at
night, but they're not reallybased in reality.
So when you actually go throughthe numbers, all right, I'm
okay.
Like I might not be ascomfortable as I was before,
maybe I can't afford some of thelifestyle things that I could
(25:34):
before, but I can comfortablypay my bills every month and I'm
okay and I don't need to bequite so worried.
Right.
But sometimes we have to make aserious change.
You know I've worked with peoplewho have had to get out of car
leases or, you know, downsizetheir home or, you know, do some
big changes to their fixedexpenses to be able to be in a
more comfortable position.
(25:55):
Most of the time when I, when Ihear people are financial
overwhelmed, it's typically acashflow issue most of the time.
And so that's you know, moneycoming in versus money going out
.
And how confident do you feellike you have more money coming
in than going out.
But it's an equation, right,and so we can get down to the
bottom of well, do we haveenough to cover everything and
(26:17):
if not, what changes need tohappen?
And again, the more you justwrite that down and have a plan
around it, the more it reducesthat overwhelm.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, I think anytime we're putting it to paper and
seeing the actual numbers canreally reduce a lot of that
anxiety.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Well, it's been such an insightful conversation.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Before we wrap up, can youshare how our listeners can
connect with you and access yourresources?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Absolutely so.
I have tons and tons of freeresources on my website that I
do hope people will takeadvantage of, because we put a
lot of work into providingresources for people.
You can go tointentionaldivorcecom and access
all the free resources on ourwebsite.
There's a link to the podcast,Intentional Divorce Insights
there, which we've had wonderfulguests, including Carrie, who
(27:11):
give a lot of good information.
Just lots of free content.
So I encourage people to takeadvantage of those things.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, leah, foryour wisdom and helping people
navigate the divorce withconfidence.
And to all of our listeners,remember financial clarity is
possible even in the midst ofchange.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please be sure to
subscribe, leave a review andshare this podcast with anyone
who might need it.
Until next time, take care andkeep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
Divorce Diaries.
Remember, every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
But you don't have to navigateit alone.
Visit JacobsonFamilyLawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
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