April 22, 2025 • 27 mins
Divorce is a complex journey for any family, but it becomes even more challenging when special needs children are added to the mix. In this episode, host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator at Jacobson Family Law, delves into the nuances of divorce involving children with disabilities, drawing on expert insights from certified special needs divorce coach Mary Ann Hughes. Their conversation covers the unique difficulties these families face, from emotional turmoil to logistical hurdles in co-parenting.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Generally I would not advise about a schedule that
has too many transitions backand forth in one week because it
takes a while to adjust, to getready, mentally prepared to go
to the next house and thensettle down once you're in that
house and get accustomed to it,and then there's a whole
transition back to the otherparent's house.
So you don't want to have like a2-3-2 schedule or whatever it
(00:20):
might be called in your areawhere you're back and forth,
back and forth schedule, orwhatever it might be called in
your area, where you're back andforth, back and forth.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches.
I'm your host, keri Jacobson,and today we have a truly
special guest, mary Ann Hughes.
Mary Ann is a certified specialneeds divorce coach and the
founder of Special FamilyTransitions.
She's dedicated to supportingparents of children with
disabilities as they navigatethe overwhelming and complex
(01:10):
process of special needs divorce.
Her work empowers parents toadvocate for their children's
short and long-term needs, whileensuring that the best possible
outcomes for their families.
Marianne, thank you so much forcoming to the show and welcome.
Thank you, keri.
My pleasure to be here.
Thanks for their families.
Marianne, thank you so much forcoming to the show and welcome.
Thank you, keri, my pleasure tobe here.
Thanks for having me Absolutely.
Can you share with ourlisteners what inspired you to
(01:33):
kind of get into thisspecialized world of special
needs divorce and how your ownexperience may have shaped that
work?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, thanks for asking that.
So I'm here because I myself ama parent of two children with
special needs, so my children,now young adults, are on the
autism spectrum.
I call them my kids, but they'rein their early 20s now and
they'll always be my babies.
And so several years ago, whenI faced divorce, I couldn't find
resources to help me, and so Iwas able to do a lot of research
(02:07):
and find a lot of experts andeventually did get a good result
for my family.
But I decided it was a lot ofwork for something that happens
so often to families, for themto have to recreate the wheel
and go through everything that Ijust did from scratch to try to
figure out what to do duringthe process and advocate for my
kids.
So that's why I decided tobecome a divorce coach special
(02:28):
needs focused and started mycompany Special Family
Transitions and I'm honored tobe one of the thought leaders in
the field and support people asthey're facing challenges,
thinking about divorce or goingthrough it or even afterwards.
To support them, to help theirkids navigate that and life
afterwards.
To support them.
To help their kids navigatethat and life afterwards.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Absolutely.
Is there anything differentabout the divorce process when a
family has children withdisabilities?
What are some of those uniquechallenges that those parents
may be facing?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yes, the most important thing is that a
child's needs are not going toend at age 18, which is
typically when most divorcediscussions really center around
about.
When they're 18, that's it, andthen you're off and don't have
to communicate with your exspouse and not deal with the
children's needs, maybefinancially, afterwards.
But that's different in thecase where I call special needs
(03:20):
divorce, because even thoughthey may make a lot of progress,
it's probably likely that thechild, when they become an adult
, is still going to need support.
So it may look differentdepending on your situation,
depending on the child and howthey've developed, but most
likely they're going to needcontinued support from one or
both parents and hopefully bothwill contribute and be involved
(03:41):
in that child's life.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes, you know, even you know, 18 in many states is
the cutoff for financialrequired support, Though there
are some states that are, youknow, into the early adulthood,
depending on whether or notchildren go to college.
But obviously, depending onthose specific needs of a adult
(04:09):
disabled child, they may or maynot be able to be
self-supporting and so sometimesthat financial assistance is
going to be required fromparents.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Right, right.
In addition to that, it'simportant to work with people
who understand what it takes toadvocate for that child's needs,
even as a minor, in terms ofwhat to include, how to phrase
things, so that in the futureeither now or in the future that
child will be eligible forgovernment benefits and other
supports that they may lose ifthings aren't done the correct
(04:39):
way.
Yes, there's that addedcomponent of the programs and
(05:01):
possibilities of outsideresources that are out there
financial divorce coaches,mental health professionals that
can help support you and yourfamily as you're going through
this process.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Are there any other legal or financial
considerations that parentssometimes overlook when they're
navigating a special needsdivorce?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Sure.
So I like for clients to lookat the long term.
So sometimes people want to getdone with a divorce and then
deal with it later.
I encourage people to thinkabout what that may look like.
As part of the divorce, maybehave discussions about who's
going to be involved in theeducation, involved in the
medical decision making,involved in planning and paying
(05:46):
for that child in the future,whether or not they're still
considered disabled becausethey're going to need some kind
of support.
One parent may have been theprimary caregiver, may have been
involved in those decisions ortaken them to therapy, things
like that, and so we want tomake sure that both parents are
comfortable with taking care ofthat child when it's their
(06:06):
possession time.
So, for instance, if one parenthas been the primary financial
provider, one parent's been theprimary caregiver, then we want
to make sure that both arevalued in the process and in the
discussion so that both areable to contribute in their own
way.
That makes sense.
So maybe both parents areworking, but maybe one parent
(06:28):
has been taking more of theactive role in terms of
medicines or therapies or thingslike that.
So we want to get the otherparent up to speed and
comfortable so that the childalso feels safe and comfortable
in both homes 100%.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Obviously, divorce is overwhelming for any person
going through it, any parent.
But if you have a child withspecial needs, I'm sure that
that stress can be even moreoverwhelming.
How do you support parents thatare going through that process?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah.
So first of all, you have toknow they're not alone.
So, sadly, families with a childwith some kind of disability or
special need face a greaterlikelihood of their marriage
ending than, say, a typicaldivorce.
And so with that, we have tounderstand the reasons why, so
that we can either prevent thatfrom happening.
(07:21):
Prevent that from happening or,if it's happening already, try
to do it in a positive fashionas much as we can, so that it's
done where the child's needs aretaken to account and where both
parties everybody's respectedand heard, because the
co-parenting relationship is notgoing to end when they turn 18.
(07:41):
You're gonna have tocommunicate, even more so than
if you had a typicallydeveloping child, because you're
going to have to update theparent as to needs or situations
that may be occurring, ways toaddress certain issues or
behavior challenges, challengesor medical challenges day to day
, as well as planning for thefuture.
So you want to, as much as youcan, have a good relationship
(08:03):
with your soon tobe ex-spouse orex-spouse so that you can
effectively co-parent and thatthe child then is not in the
middle and feeling that conflict.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Are there any particular strategies that
parents can use to minimize theemotional impact of divorce on
their special needs children,you know, especially those who
I'm thinking younger kids, butit could be older that struggle
with changes in their routine ortheir environment?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Right?
That's a great question,because kids on the autism
spectrum, no matter what agethey are, have a hard time
dealing with change in theirroutine and who they're around
and their surroundings, and so Ihad a hard time finding people
to help me, to help my kids, inthe process.
So what I ended up doing wascreating what they call a social
story, with some people whohave autistic kids may be
(09:01):
familiar with, but it'sbasically a narrative that's
done at the child's level,whether or not they can read.
You can use pictures, you canuse words or combination to
explain in a supporting, lovingfashion what is happening to
that family and what they canexpect, cause they really want
to know, you know, end of theday, kind of what's what happens
to me and where will I be andwhen will I be at each parent
(09:24):
and what's going to change in mylife.
So we want to do things slowly,transition slowly, if we can,
into the changes that are goingto be happening and and then
expose them, introduce them towhat they can expect.
So, for instance, in my socialstory, I did it in a very loving
way.
I had pictures of me with thekids, with the whole family, and
(09:46):
then I explained that my dadand I are going to live in
different homes and you're goingto visit them in different
homes.
So I had a picture.
Dad sent me a picture of whathis new home was going to look
like, what the room would looklike, so they could mentally
prepare for that, and so theywere able to take that and read
it, have it read to them, andeven one child when appropriate.
(10:09):
They took it to school for histeacher in his special education
class to go over with him.
So I would definitely involvethe community.
So, for instance, teachers ortherapists or whoever helps is
in that village, support thatchild, let them be aware of
what's happening so they canunderstand, maybe changes that
the child is experiencing interms of maybe they're not
(10:29):
themselves or they're showingaggression or regression or some
academic challenges they canunderstand maybe why things are
happening.
So if they have an insight ofwhat's happening at home of
course you don't want to shareeverything, but just enough so
that they're aware of what'shappening and can support that
child as well.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I like the idea of that social story, so that it
can be something that that childcan understand on his or her
level and can prepare for what'sgoing to come next.
How about custody accessschedules?
Are there certain schedulesthat you, you know, think are
(11:11):
more appropriate for children ofspecial needs, or things that
parents should consider whenthey are creating their custody
schedule?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Sure.
So I would say depends on thechild and the situation, how far
apart maybe the parents liveand how well they're getting
along.
But generally I would notadvise about a schedule that has
too many transitions back andforth in one week, because it
takes a while to adjust, to getready, mentally prepared to go
(11:43):
to the next house and thensettle down once you're in that
house and get accustomed to itand then there's a whole
transition back to the otherparent's house.
So you don't want to have likea two, three, two schedule or
whatever it might be called inyour area where you're back and
forth, back and forth, becauseimagine if you're going from
place to place a hotel to hotelon business, that's hard and
it's it's hard for the child.
So to have as much consistencyas we can, you know, maybe have,
(12:08):
depending on your situation,some people do one week on, one
week off, some people might workbetter to maybe the school days
, or most of the school days,stay with maybe one parent and
maybe have weekends or extendedweekends with the other parent,
and a schedule that maybedoesn't interfere and is less of
(12:30):
a concern for the kids goingback and forth, so they feel
comfortable.
You know in one home wheretheir belongings are and they
don't have to worry about.
You know where am I going to dohomework today?
Things like that, right.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, I'm sure that it depends on.
You know each individual child,even when we're talking about
neurotypical children.
You know their mannerisms, howthey handle transitions.
You know it varies from onechild to the next.
Also depends on their age, sothere's lots of factors that
will play a part in what thecustody, you know the most
(13:06):
appropriate access scheduleshould be.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Right.
I would say, though, make it apositive experience when you're
having the transitions to theother parent.
We want to give them time andalso, when they come back, to
let them decompress, maybe toget back to their old routine.
So, even though you want to tryto have as consistent routines
as possible between homes, ifyou can Granted, each parent is
going to parent a little bitdifferently, but it's great to
(13:31):
have like visual schedules andhave things as consistent as we
can so that the transitionsbecome not as impactful to the
kids.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Are there any key elements for a strong parenting
plan in a special needs divorce?
You know we've already talked alittle bit about the custody
schedules, but are there otherthings that parents should be
kind of thinking about whenthey're putting together that
parenting plan?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Sure.
So I'd say as much as you canallow for flexibility, so say
you know you've got therapies ortrips or so on.
We don't want to be so focusedon this is my time versus your
time or I can't be involved.
So where you can, if it makessense, be flexible in that and
the way you write that and theway you adhere to your plan.
(14:25):
Cases I've seen that have themore conflict are the ones where
people are not willing to beflexible and negotiable in terms
of that.
So it's going to look differentonce again for every family,
but definitely leave the line ofcommunications open.
Have it where each child cancommunicate with each parent,
even during the other parentingtime and vice versa.
(14:46):
So, whether you're speaking inperson or having parenting apps
or whatever system you're usingfor your family so that the
child knows that they can reachout to both parents for support.
But yet you know they know thatthis is mom's time and this is
dad's time and respect it thatway as well.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I agree that, you know.
I think it's just setting upboundaries and expectations for
everyone, so that everyone's onthe same page with how that's
going to be accomplished whetherit's going to be, you know,
through FaceTime videos or somesort of video call, whether it's
going to be, you know, textmessaging or whatever the case
(15:29):
may be, but just making sureeverybody's on the same page
with what that's going to looklike.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Right.
One thing I would add also isthat for children that can, that
are verbal or different ways ofexpressing themselves, this is
a great opportunity to teachthem to advocate for themselves
and to share with the otherparent what works for them, what
doesn't work for them, so thatway there's less conflict there
too, because that's the biggestlesson I think that our children
can take away from this is theexample that we set as role
(15:58):
models and things that they'reable to do within their control
that maybe, like you said,because of boundaries, maybe the
other parent can't necessarilydo For that child.
If they're not verbal and notable to, then that's based on
different flavor.
For those that can expressthemselves, then I think that's
a very great skill to learn andbe able to apply, not just with
(16:21):
the other parent but also inlife.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, good point, yeah, good point.
Switching gears slightly, whatrole does the financial planning
play in these special needsdivorce cases Particularly?
We've talked about futureexpenses, whether that's medical
care, therapies and maybe evenguardianship arrangements.
(16:45):
How do the finances come intoplay in this scenario?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, they play a big part, because that's what keeps
parents up at night is what'sgoing to happen to my child and
how am I going to pay for thesethings that they're going to
need now and throughout theirlifetime?
And so that's.
We want to get a special needsfocused financial planner, one
who understands that.
There's ones of certaindesignations, there's charter
(17:13):
special needs consultants thathave gone through training, and
a lot of them have familyconnections with people who have
disabilities, special needs,and so you want to look at it
kind of like a life care plan,where you're thinking about what
does a child need now, but whatdo they need in the future?
So that way you can come upwith numbers and come to
agreements on what's anappropriate amount for child
support, what's an appropriateamount for property division,
(17:36):
different things like that.
And also looking at lifeinsurance.
How do we, you know, pass ourlifetime?
Or something happens to oneparent who can no longer either
physically take care of thechild or pay for the additional
supports and financialobligations?
How is that going to be coveredin the future, when they're
older and you have other needsas well?
(17:57):
So we want to look at lifeinsurance.
We want to also consider andthis is part financial part the
legal side in terms of, maybe,estate planning attorneys.
How do we set things up, likeyou said, for guardianship, for
trust, so that they do maintaineligibility.
They're not penalized forhaving money in their name?
So in the US currently the capis $2,000 for what a child can
(18:21):
have in their name and still beeligible for a lot of programs
and benefits, and so we makesure that child support is paid
correctly, especially whenthey're over 18, and inheritance
and life support, lifeinsurance, things like that that
go into the right kind of trustso that the child does maintain
the eligibility for things likethat in the future.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Lots of different pieces to consider.
Are there particular resourcesor professionals that you would
recommend parents consult withto help them through that
creation of a comprehensive plan?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Sure so.
So first step, I would saydefinitely go out and find a
special needs certified divorcecoach.
There are several of us outthere who want to help inspire
the program and also teach that,so there are more and more that
are going to be available andhave that knowledge.
But also make sure that you'reworking with a team of people,
whatever they are, that has thisexperience.
(19:24):
But what I've done with acolleague of mine, susan
Bernstein, who's also acertified special needs divorce
coach, is we just put together anew website called Divorce for
Special Needs Children and withthat we're trying to share
resources there.
Who are the people who haveexperience who can help you in
these situations?
Because I knew that was myhardest thing.
For me was trying to findpeople who understood this, who
(19:45):
could create those reports,create, share information, share
about next steps and so nowhonored to now be able to share
that with others.
So we have people there frommediators to financial planners,
mental health professionals andother areas that people will
need either before, during oreven after divorce for support
(20:06):
with the family and futureplanning issues.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
That sounds like a great resource, kind of like a
directory of sorts for peoplewho may touch on all of those
various aspects that parents mayneed.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Exactly Like you said .
You don't know what you needuntil you actually start the
process, and so as a divorcecoach, we can help you kind of
through that.
But yeah, definitely want towork with people who are experts
in their field to make surethat you've dialed your I's and
crossed your T's so that lateryou're not taken by surprise or
having to go back and makemodifications when maybe it
wasn't considered in the firstplace, and not to say that you
(20:41):
can't do that later.
For instance, if a child isdiagnosed later or if you didn't
have the ongoing child supportor other things that you didn't
know you needed or were awarethat you could do, then
definitely you can go back andwork with somebody to make that
happen.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, in your experience, what would you say
is one common mistake you'veseen people that you are working
with make during the divorceprocess, and what can our
listeners do to avoid that?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, so one is we don't want to rush into anything
, so take your time first of all.
Kind of deal with the emotionalside of divorce before you're
going to it and make businessdecisions that are going to
impact you and your kids, uh,for a long time.
But I would say, uh, always putthe child's needs first.
(21:30):
Granted, that's what we allwant to do and that's the intent
, but sometimes along the wayyou may get into a process,
depending on the type of law wehave or the type of the way the
divorce may be started off maybeon the wrong foot, where who
are focused on negative thingsand not focusing on the child
and their future.
(21:51):
So we want to look at this ashow can we work together as
parents, even though we disagreeon some things?
We may not get along, forwhatever reason, things have
happened to cause a relationship, but what can we do together to
plan for the kids?
And that's the approach that Iwould promote.
Is that how can we plan together?
Because, as we talked about,there's a lot of things that go
(22:13):
into play to plan for a child'sfuture, and we can't do it alone
, and or it's better if we, bothparents, are involved.
Sadly, sometimes one parent istotally out of the picture and
that's sad but it does happen.
But the hope is that bothparents will continue to be
involved in some form or fashionand depending on your situation
, that may look different, butdepending on what your child
(22:35):
needs and how can we worktogether to make sure that that
child can grow to the best oftheir ability.
So I say, hope for the best foryour child, but also plan for
the worst.
So sometimes people don't thinkabout disability, they don't
want to acknowledge that, theydon't want to see that as a
really issue in their divorce orreally it needs to be, because
if you're going to go back andmodify and it hasn't been
(22:58):
discussed or even in this yourinitial paperwork, that may be
harder to go back and fix later.
So we want to at least havesome mention of it in the great
documentations and petitions andwhatnot, um, so that later, um,
it becomes a similar processfor everybody.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Great advice For those of our listeners who may
be divorce professionals.
What can they you know, whetherthey're attorneys, financial
planners or therapists what canthey do to better support those
families with special needs whoare going through divorce
process?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, so every family is different, the situation is
different.
Every, as they say, every childwith autism is different, and
so take time to understand thatfamily's needs, what's important
to them, what is their child,that child or young adult,
whoever it may be, what aretheir needs and what do we need
(23:59):
to address what's important tothem?
Kind of get your client maybeto share a life in the day so
you can get a betterunderstanding of what those
challenges really are.
Maybe when, when they can'tmaybe articulate it top of their
head when they're first askedabout it as a client, maybe if
they think about okay, well,these are all the things I have
(24:21):
to do for my child, all thethings I have to pay for, then
it puts maybe a differentperspective on it for everybody
to understand.
Really, what are we looking for, what are the supports out
there and how can, as aprofessional, can I help this
family so that after divorce,everyone's in a good place?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That's great advice.
I appreciate that.
Marianne.
It's been so nice to have youon the show today.
Thank you so much for yourinsightful information and
conversation.
I know our listeners will gainso much from your expertise.
Can you tell our listenerswhere they can find you and so
that they can access yourresources?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Sure, yeah, so my social media and my website are
all called Special FamilyTransitions and on my website
website there's a link to a formto send me an email happy to do
a complimentary consultation.
And yeah, I do all kinds ofpodcasts and presentations and
seminars to get the informationout there so people can get uh,
(25:26):
it's a head start and kind ofknow what to think about.
But definitely we're here tohelp all of us in the community
and even to help and support theprofessionals that maybe
haven't had as much experiencein this area.
So definitely, as a co-directorof the National Association of
Divorce Professionals, we bringin speakers all the time to
educate professionals in divorcein this area and so definitely,
(25:47):
as a professional, you'realways welcome to attend our
meetings as well.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Thank you so much for that.
Thank you again for joining usand to our listeners if you
found this episode helpful,please subscribe, leave us a
review and share it with someonethat you, that who may need
your support.
Until next time, take care andbe kind to yourself.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
Divorce Diaries.
Remember every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
Generally I would not advise about a schedule that
has too many transitions backand forth in one week because it
takes a while to adjust, to getready, mentally prepared to go
to the next house and thensettle down once you're in that
house and get accustomed to it,and then there's a whole
transition back to the otherparent's house.
So you don't want to have like a2-3-2 schedule or whatever it
(00:20):
might be called in your areawhere you're back and forth,
back and forth schedule, orwhatever it might be called in
your area, where you're back andforth, back and forth.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches.
I'm your host, keri Jacobson,and today we have a truly
special guest, mary Ann Hughes.
Mary Ann is a certified specialneeds divorce coach and the
founder of Special FamilyTransitions.
She's dedicated to supportingparents of children with
disabilities as they navigatethe overwhelming and complex
(01:10):
process of special needs divorce.
Her work empowers parents toadvocate for their children's
short and long-term needs, whileensuring that the best possible
outcomes for their families.
Marianne, thank you so much forcoming to the show and welcome.
Thank you, keri.
My pleasure to be here.
Thanks for their families.
Marianne, thank you so much forcoming to the show and welcome.
Thank you, keri, my pleasure tobe here.
Thanks for having me Absolutely.
Can you share with ourlisteners what inspired you to
(01:33):
kind of get into thisspecialized world of special
needs divorce and how your ownexperience may have shaped that
work?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, thanks for asking that.
So I'm here because I myself ama parent of two children with
special needs, so my children,now young adults, are on the
autism spectrum.
I call them my kids, but they'rein their early 20s now and
they'll always be my babies.
And so several years ago, whenI faced divorce, I couldn't find
resources to help me, and so Iwas able to do a lot of research
(02:07):
and find a lot of experts andeventually did get a good result
for my family.
But I decided it was a lot ofwork for something that happens
so often to families, for themto have to recreate the wheel
and go through everything that Ijust did from scratch to try to
figure out what to do duringthe process and advocate for my
kids.
So that's why I decided tobecome a divorce coach special
(02:28):
needs focused and started mycompany Special Family
Transitions and I'm honored tobe one of the thought leaders in
the field and support people asthey're facing challenges,
thinking about divorce or goingthrough it or even afterwards.
To support them, to help theirkids navigate that and life
afterwards.
To support them.
To help their kids navigatethat and life afterwards.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Absolutely.
Is there anything differentabout the divorce process when a
family has children withdisabilities?
What are some of those uniquechallenges that those parents
may be facing?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yes, the most important thing is that a
child's needs are not going toend at age 18, which is
typically when most divorcediscussions really center around
about.
When they're 18, that's it, andthen you're off and don't have
to communicate with your exspouse and not deal with the
children's needs, maybefinancially, afterwards.
But that's different in thecase where I call special needs
(03:20):
divorce, because even thoughthey may make a lot of progress,
it's probably likely that thechild, when they become an adult
, is still going to need support.
So it may look differentdepending on your situation,
depending on the child and howthey've developed, but most
likely they're going to needcontinued support from one or
both parents and hopefully bothwill contribute and be involved
(03:41):
in that child's life.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes, you know, even you know, 18 in many states is
the cutoff for financialrequired support, Though there
are some states that are, youknow, into the early adulthood,
depending on whether or notchildren go to college.
But obviously, depending onthose specific needs of a adult
(04:09):
disabled child, they may or maynot be able to be
self-supporting and so sometimesthat financial assistance is
going to be required fromparents.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Right, right.
In addition to that, it'simportant to work with people
who understand what it takes toadvocate for that child's needs,
even as a minor, in terms ofwhat to include, how to phrase
things, so that in the futureeither now or in the future that
child will be eligible forgovernment benefits and other
supports that they may lose ifthings aren't done the correct
(04:39):
way.
Yes, there's that addedcomponent of the programs and
(05:01):
possibilities of outsideresources that are out there
financial divorce coaches,mental health professionals that
can help support you and yourfamily as you're going through
this process.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Are there any other legal or financial
considerations that parentssometimes overlook when they're
navigating a special needsdivorce?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Sure.
So I like for clients to lookat the long term.
So sometimes people want to getdone with a divorce and then
deal with it later.
I encourage people to thinkabout what that may look like.
As part of the divorce, maybehave discussions about who's
going to be involved in theeducation, involved in the
medical decision making,involved in planning and paying
(05:46):
for that child in the future,whether or not they're still
considered disabled becausethey're going to need some kind
of support.
One parent may have been theprimary caregiver, may have been
involved in those decisions ortaken them to therapy, things
like that, and so we want tomake sure that both parents are
comfortable with taking care ofthat child when it's their
(06:06):
possession time.
So, for instance, if one parenthas been the primary financial
provider, one parent's been theprimary caregiver, then we want
to make sure that both arevalued in the process and in the
discussion so that both areable to contribute in their own
way.
That makes sense.
So maybe both parents areworking, but maybe one parent
(06:28):
has been taking more of theactive role in terms of
medicines or therapies or thingslike that.
So we want to get the otherparent up to speed and
comfortable so that the childalso feels safe and comfortable
in both homes 100%.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Obviously, divorce is overwhelming for any person
going through it, any parent.
But if you have a child withspecial needs, I'm sure that
that stress can be even moreoverwhelming.
How do you support parents thatare going through that process?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah.
So first of all, you have toknow they're not alone.
So, sadly, families with a childwith some kind of disability or
special need face a greaterlikelihood of their marriage
ending than, say, a typicaldivorce.
And so with that, we have tounderstand the reasons why, so
that we can either prevent thatfrom happening.
(07:21):
Prevent that from happening or,if it's happening already, try
to do it in a positive fashionas much as we can, so that it's
done where the child's needs aretaken to account and where both
parties everybody's respectedand heard, because the
co-parenting relationship is notgoing to end when they turn 18.
(07:41):
You're gonna have tocommunicate, even more so than
if you had a typicallydeveloping child, because you're
going to have to update theparent as to needs or situations
that may be occurring, ways toaddress certain issues or
behavior challenges, challengesor medical challenges day to day
, as well as planning for thefuture.
So you want to, as much as youcan, have a good relationship
(08:03):
with your soon tobe ex-spouse orex-spouse so that you can
effectively co-parent and thatthe child then is not in the
middle and feeling that conflict.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Are there any particular strategies that
parents can use to minimize theemotional impact of divorce on
their special needs children,you know, especially those who
I'm thinking younger kids, butit could be older that struggle
with changes in their routine ortheir environment?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Right?
That's a great question,because kids on the autism
spectrum, no matter what agethey are, have a hard time
dealing with change in theirroutine and who they're around
and their surroundings, and so Ihad a hard time finding people
to help me, to help my kids, inthe process.
So what I ended up doing wascreating what they call a social
story, with some people whohave autistic kids may be
(09:01):
familiar with, but it'sbasically a narrative that's
done at the child's level,whether or not they can read.
You can use pictures, you canuse words or combination to
explain in a supporting, lovingfashion what is happening to
that family and what they canexpect, cause they really want
to know, you know, end of theday, kind of what's what happens
to me and where will I be andwhen will I be at each parent
(09:24):
and what's going to change in mylife.
So we want to do things slowly,transition slowly, if we can,
into the changes that are goingto be happening and and then
expose them, introduce them towhat they can expect.
So, for instance, in my socialstory, I did it in a very loving
way.
I had pictures of me with thekids, with the whole family, and
(09:46):
then I explained that my dadand I are going to live in
different homes and you're goingto visit them in different
homes.
So I had a picture.
Dad sent me a picture of whathis new home was going to look
like, what the room would looklike, so they could mentally
prepare for that, and so theywere able to take that and read
it, have it read to them, andeven one child when appropriate.
(10:09):
They took it to school for histeacher in his special education
class to go over with him.
So I would definitely involvethe community.
So, for instance, teachers ortherapists or whoever helps is
in that village, support thatchild, let them be aware of
what's happening so they canunderstand, maybe changes that
the child is experiencing interms of maybe they're not
(10:29):
themselves or they're showingaggression or regression or some
academic challenges they canunderstand maybe why things are
happening.
So if they have an insight ofwhat's happening at home of
course you don't want to shareeverything, but just enough so
that they're aware of what'shappening and can support that
child as well.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I like the idea of that social story, so that it
can be something that that childcan understand on his or her
level and can prepare for what'sgoing to come next.
How about custody accessschedules?
Are there certain schedulesthat you, you know, think are
(11:11):
more appropriate for children ofspecial needs, or things that
parents should consider whenthey are creating their custody
schedule?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Sure.
So I would say depends on thechild and the situation, how far
apart maybe the parents liveand how well they're getting
along.
But generally I would notadvise about a schedule that has
too many transitions back andforth in one week, because it
takes a while to adjust, to getready, mentally prepared to go
(11:43):
to the next house and thensettle down once you're in that
house and get accustomed to itand then there's a whole
transition back to the otherparent's house.
So you don't want to have likea two, three, two schedule or
whatever it might be called inyour area where you're back and
forth, back and forth, becauseimagine if you're going from
place to place a hotel to hotelon business, that's hard and
it's it's hard for the child.
So to have as much consistencyas we can, you know, maybe have,
(12:08):
depending on your situation,some people do one week on, one
week off, some people might workbetter to maybe the school days
, or most of the school days,stay with maybe one parent and
maybe have weekends or extendedweekends with the other parent,
and a schedule that maybedoesn't interfere and is less of
(12:30):
a concern for the kids goingback and forth, so they feel
comfortable.
You know in one home wheretheir belongings are and they
don't have to worry about.
You know where am I going to dohomework today?
Things like that, right.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, I'm sure that it depends on.
You know each individual child,even when we're talking about
neurotypical children.
You know their mannerisms, howthey handle transitions.
You know it varies from onechild to the next.
Also depends on their age, sothere's lots of factors that
will play a part in what thecustody, you know the most
(13:06):
appropriate access scheduleshould be.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Right.
I would say, though, make it apositive experience when you're
having the transitions to theother parent.
We want to give them time andalso, when they come back, to
let them decompress, maybe toget back to their old routine.
So, even though you want to tryto have as consistent routines
as possible between homes, ifyou can Granted, each parent is
going to parent a little bitdifferently, but it's great to
(13:31):
have like visual schedules andhave things as consistent as we
can so that the transitionsbecome not as impactful to the
kids.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Are there any key elements for a strong parenting
plan in a special needs divorce?
You know we've already talked alittle bit about the custody
schedules, but are there otherthings that parents should be
kind of thinking about whenthey're putting together that
parenting plan?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Sure.
So I'd say as much as you canallow for flexibility, so say
you know you've got therapies ortrips or so on.
We don't want to be so focusedon this is my time versus your
time or I can't be involved.
So where you can, if it makessense, be flexible in that and
the way you write that and theway you adhere to your plan.
(14:25):
Cases I've seen that have themore conflict are the ones where
people are not willing to beflexible and negotiable in terms
of that.
So it's going to look differentonce again for every family,
but definitely leave the line ofcommunications open.
Have it where each child cancommunicate with each parent,
even during the other parentingtime and vice versa.
(14:46):
So, whether you're speaking inperson or having parenting apps
or whatever system you're usingfor your family so that the
child knows that they can reachout to both parents for support.
But yet you know they know thatthis is mom's time and this is
dad's time and respect it thatway as well.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I agree that, you know.
I think it's just setting upboundaries and expectations for
everyone, so that everyone's onthe same page with how that's
going to be accomplished whetherit's going to be, you know,
through FaceTime videos or somesort of video call, whether it's
going to be, you know, textmessaging or whatever the case
(15:29):
may be, but just making sureeverybody's on the same page
with what that's going to looklike.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Right.
One thing I would add also isthat for children that can, that
are verbal or different ways ofexpressing themselves, this is
a great opportunity to teachthem to advocate for themselves
and to share with the otherparent what works for them, what
doesn't work for them, so thatway there's less conflict there
too, because that's the biggestlesson I think that our children
can take away from this is theexample that we set as role
(15:58):
models and things that they'reable to do within their control
that maybe, like you said,because of boundaries, maybe the
other parent can't necessarilydo For that child.
If they're not verbal and notable to, then that's based on
different flavor.
For those that can expressthemselves, then I think that's
a very great skill to learn andbe able to apply, not just with
(16:21):
the other parent but also inlife.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, good point, yeah, good point.
Switching gears slightly, whatrole does the financial planning
play in these special needsdivorce cases Particularly?
We've talked about futureexpenses, whether that's medical
care, therapies and maybe evenguardianship arrangements.
(16:45):
How do the finances come intoplay in this scenario?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, they play a big part, because that's what keeps
parents up at night is what'sgoing to happen to my child and
how am I going to pay for thesethings that they're going to
need now and throughout theirlifetime?
And so that's.
We want to get a special needsfocused financial planner, one
who understands that.
There's ones of certaindesignations, there's charter
(17:13):
special needs consultants thathave gone through training, and
a lot of them have familyconnections with people who have
disabilities, special needs,and so you want to look at it
kind of like a life care plan,where you're thinking about what
does a child need now, but whatdo they need in the future?
So that way you can come upwith numbers and come to
agreements on what's anappropriate amount for child
support, what's an appropriateamount for property division,
(17:36):
different things like that.
And also looking at lifeinsurance.
How do we, you know, pass ourlifetime?
Or something happens to oneparent who can no longer either
physically take care of thechild or pay for the additional
supports and financialobligations?
How is that going to be coveredin the future, when they're
older and you have other needsas well?
(17:57):
So we want to look at lifeinsurance.
We want to also consider andthis is part financial part the
legal side in terms of, maybe,estate planning attorneys.
How do we set things up, likeyou said, for guardianship, for
trust, so that they do maintaineligibility.
They're not penalized forhaving money in their name?
So in the US currently the capis $2,000 for what a child can
(18:21):
have in their name and still beeligible for a lot of programs
and benefits, and so we makesure that child support is paid
correctly, especially whenthey're over 18, and inheritance
and life support, lifeinsurance, things like that that
go into the right kind of trustso that the child does maintain
the eligibility for things likethat in the future.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Lots of different pieces to consider.
Are there particular resourcesor professionals that you would
recommend parents consult withto help them through that
creation of a comprehensive plan?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Sure so.
So first step, I would saydefinitely go out and find a
special needs certified divorcecoach.
There are several of us outthere who want to help inspire
the program and also teach that,so there are more and more that
are going to be available andhave that knowledge.
But also make sure that you'reworking with a team of people,
whatever they are, that has thisexperience.
(19:24):
But what I've done with acolleague of mine, susan
Bernstein, who's also acertified special needs divorce
coach, is we just put together anew website called Divorce for
Special Needs Children and withthat we're trying to share
resources there.
Who are the people who haveexperience who can help you in
these situations?
Because I knew that was myhardest thing.
For me was trying to findpeople who understood this, who
(19:45):
could create those reports,create, share information, share
about next steps and so nowhonored to now be able to share
that with others.
So we have people there frommediators to financial planners,
mental health professionals andother areas that people will
need either before, during oreven after divorce for support
(20:06):
with the family and futureplanning issues.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
That sounds like a great resource, kind of like a
directory of sorts for peoplewho may touch on all of those
various aspects that parents mayneed.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Exactly Like you said .
You don't know what you needuntil you actually start the
process, and so as a divorcecoach, we can help you kind of
through that.
But yeah, definitely want towork with people who are experts
in their field to make surethat you've dialed your I's and
crossed your T's so that lateryou're not taken by surprise or
having to go back and makemodifications when maybe it
wasn't considered in the firstplace, and not to say that you
(20:41):
can't do that later.
For instance, if a child isdiagnosed later or if you didn't
have the ongoing child supportor other things that you didn't
know you needed or were awarethat you could do, then
definitely you can go back andwork with somebody to make that
happen.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, in your experience, what would you say
is one common mistake you'veseen people that you are working
with make during the divorceprocess, and what can our
listeners do to avoid that?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, so one is we don't want to rush into anything
, so take your time first of all.
Kind of deal with the emotionalside of divorce before you're
going to it and make businessdecisions that are going to
impact you and your kids, uh,for a long time.
But I would say, uh, always putthe child's needs first.
(21:30):
Granted, that's what we allwant to do and that's the intent
, but sometimes along the wayyou may get into a process,
depending on the type of law wehave or the type of the way the
divorce may be started off maybeon the wrong foot, where who
are focused on negative thingsand not focusing on the child
and their future.
(21:51):
So we want to look at this ashow can we work together as
parents, even though we disagreeon some things?
We may not get along, forwhatever reason, things have
happened to cause a relationship, but what can we do together to
plan for the kids?
And that's the approach that Iwould promote.
Is that how can we plan together?
Because, as we talked about,there's a lot of things that go
(22:13):
into play to plan for a child'sfuture, and we can't do it alone
, and or it's better if we, bothparents, are involved.
Sadly, sometimes one parent istotally out of the picture and
that's sad but it does happen.
But the hope is that bothparents will continue to be
involved in some form or fashionand depending on your situation
, that may look different, butdepending on what your child
(22:35):
needs and how can we worktogether to make sure that that
child can grow to the best oftheir ability.
So I say, hope for the best foryour child, but also plan for
the worst.
So sometimes people don't thinkabout disability, they don't
want to acknowledge that, theydon't want to see that as a
really issue in their divorce orreally it needs to be, because
if you're going to go back andmodify and it hasn't been
(22:58):
discussed or even in this yourinitial paperwork, that may be
harder to go back and fix later.
So we want to at least havesome mention of it in the great
documentations and petitions andwhatnot, um, so that later, um,
it becomes a similar processfor everybody.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Great advice For those of our listeners who may
be divorce professionals.
What can they you know, whetherthey're attorneys, financial
planners or therapists what canthey do to better support those
families with special needs whoare going through divorce
process?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, so every family is different, the situation is
different.
Every, as they say, every childwith autism is different, and
so take time to understand thatfamily's needs, what's important
to them, what is their child,that child or young adult,
whoever it may be, what aretheir needs and what do we need
(23:59):
to address what's important tothem?
Kind of get your client maybeto share a life in the day so
you can get a betterunderstanding of what those
challenges really are.
Maybe when, when they can'tmaybe articulate it top of their
head when they're first askedabout it as a client, maybe if
they think about okay, well,these are all the things I have
(24:21):
to do for my child, all thethings I have to pay for, then
it puts maybe a differentperspective on it for everybody
to understand.
Really, what are we looking for, what are the supports out
there and how can, as aprofessional, can I help this
family so that after divorce,everyone's in a good place?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That's great advice.
I appreciate that.
Marianne.
It's been so nice to have youon the show today.
Thank you so much for yourinsightful information and
conversation.
I know our listeners will gainso much from your expertise.
Can you tell our listenerswhere they can find you and so
that they can access yourresources?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Sure, yeah, so my social media and my website are
all called Special FamilyTransitions and on my website
website there's a link to a formto send me an email happy to do
a complimentary consultation.
And yeah, I do all kinds ofpodcasts and presentations and
seminars to get the informationout there so people can get uh,
(25:26):
it's a head start and kind ofknow what to think about.
But definitely we're here tohelp all of us in the community
and even to help and support theprofessionals that maybe
haven't had as much experiencein this area.
So definitely, as a co-directorof the National Association of
Divorce Professionals, we bringin speakers all the time to
educate professionals in divorcein this area and so definitely,
(25:47):
as a professional, you'realways welcome to attend our
meetings as well.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Thank you so much for that.
Thank you again for joining usand to our listeners if you
found this episode helpful,please subscribe, leave us a
review and share it with someonethat you, that who may need
your support.
Until next time, take care andbe kind to yourself.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
Divorce Diaries.
Remember every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
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