May 6, 2025 • 28 mins
Divorce can blindside you with emotional turmoil that makes rational decision-making nearly impossible. Join host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator, as she sits down with Chris Stuart, a divorce coach and entrepreneur as he discusses his own high-conflict divorce. He found himself $100,000 in legal fees before even seeing a judge, uncertain how to navigate the process, and struggling to maintain his relationship with his child. This transformative experience led him to create a new approach to divorce support.
Whether you're contemplating divorce, currently navigating one, or supporting someone who is, this episode provides essential strategies for maintaining clarity during life's most challenging transitions. Connect with Chris at cstuart@divorcetom.com or look for his upcoming nationwide Divorce Support Network launching soon.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
OK, a divorce coach.
We work with therapists becausewe understand that our clients
do need some of that.
You know that mental healthclarity.
We, on the other hand, we don'tgo back, we go forward.
So my understanding is to youknow, to create the awareness
for you so you understandexactly the position you're in
(00:20):
today.
We're not going my time andyour time together.
We're going to understand whywe're here today and what we
need to do to move forward theright way.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome back to divorce diaries lessons from the
trenches.
I'm your host, Carrie Jacobson,and today we are going to be
welcoming Chris Stewart.
He is a seasoned expert guidingindividuals through the divorce
process.
We'll talk about some keyaspects of divorce, including
the business side of the process, shifting perspectives and
(01:16):
managing conflict.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, Chris.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Thank you, Keri.
I'm happy to be here today.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thank you so much.
Well, before we dive in, canyou tell our listeners, share a
little bit about your journeyand what led you to working in
this divorce space?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Absolutely.
I've been an entrepreneur forabout 17 or 18 years of my adult
life, many different injuriesthat I've been a part of.
I experienced my divorce in2018, which was a very traumatic
divorce very high conflict,very just, so to speak, about a
seven figure divorce and justthe turn.
(01:54):
So you know, I had a childinvolved and so it really
flipped my life upside down andI had to really understand how
to navigate this new chapter andand really I had to do it on my
own.
So when I got to the pointwhere I could sell my companies
in 2022, 2023, I said that thisis really what I want to do is I
(02:15):
want to get in back into thespace and help individuals like
myself and everyone else thatjust really didn't know what to
do, and do things the right way.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Absolutely.
I'm sure going through thatexperience of such a high
conflict divorce changed yourperspective on how things could
be improved.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Absolutely.
I had no idea what I was in forand I did what everybody else
did, right, you know youunderstanding a separation and
you just go and hire the, youknow whoever recommends an
attorney.
So I had to go get a highprofile attorney before I knew
it.
I'm, you know it's a fiftythousand dollar retainer at
eight hundred an hour, and I'm Ihaven't even seen a judge yet
(03:00):
and I'm already in one hundredthousand dollars and I'm going
on.
You know my child's beingweaponized to me and like I'm
not being able to see my childlike I'm supposed to, and so I
just I had no idea like goinginto this.
It was just, you know this,this, I guess, just such a
struggle, right?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, if you had to do it over again, would you have
hired the same type of attorneyat the outset, or would you
have taken a different approach?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I would hire a coach.
I would hire a coach and I hadno idea what coaching was, and
most people today in 2025, don'tunderstand what divorce
coaching actually do.
Today, in 2025, don'tunderstand what divorce coaching
actually do.
So I actually went in and goteducated for nine months to
actually be able to helpeverybody in the divorce space.
So I would have gone back and Iwould have hired a coach.
(03:55):
I would have mentally been ableto compartmentalize exactly what
I needed to do without all theemotional trauma trying to make
the right decision.
And so having a coach wouldhave that support where you can
kind of create options of goinginto what type of you know
attorney do I need that fits myfinancial budget and what this
(04:15):
picture is going to look like.
And then, how do you want tostructure the rest of your weeks
and months and years goingthrough this process and also
collectively.
Like I didn't know whatparenting plans were about, I
didn't know you know whatalimony, child support, spousal
support and then all thesequestions and subpoenas just
didn't have all the you knowunderstanding and every time I'd
(04:38):
sit with my attorney it wouldbe this is what we're doing.
This is what we're doing.
I didn't really have a plan.
So I was kind of mercy of my,my attorney.
So I would have hired a coach,so I would have had you know, I
would have been organized andprepared for my attorney meets
and for the rest of my divorce.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I think that is definitely a good approach.
By hiring that coach, they cankind of help guide you through
the different pieces that thedivorce is going to entail and
give you information so that youcan make those decisions
instead of kind of flying by theseat of your pants, so to speak
(05:18):
, in making those decisions kindof ad hoc, those decisions kind
of ad hoc Right.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You know, I think that's the biggest thing that
most everyone that I've everbeen in contact with you know
they show up for a divorcehighly emotional, and you know
what that's.
That's understandable You'resupposed to be.
You know, this is a lifechanging event and most people
don't make the right decisionswhen they're emotional.
You know, especially.
You know I've seen so manypeople.
It's like they just do thisbecause they're angry or they do
(05:46):
this because they're upset.
And I'm like, okay, and you'reunderstanding, you just spent
$50,000 in attorney's fees andyou're upset at your attorney.
It's not your attorney's fault,you're the one doing this, but
you need someone there to kindof baseline you out and have a
(06:07):
professional outlook on this soyou can create the best options
for you, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
What do you tell potential clients when because I
always get asked this what isthe difference, from your
perspective, of a divorce coachversus a therapist?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Great question and I have to educate that you know
pretty much every day.
Right, there's two sides ofthis.
You have therapy, you havecoaching.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Ok are they the same?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
No, they're not the same but they coincide in the
same manner.
You know they are licensedprofessionals, mental health
professionals.
Some have the ability toactually prescribe medication if
, if they have that, you knowthat licensure OK.
Normally you're going all theway back to the root of the
problem to get an understandingof why you're actually standing
here today.
What actually led up to this?
(06:57):
What could I have donedifferently?
Okay, a divorce coach.
We work with therapists becausewe understand that our clients
do need some of that mentalhealth clarity.
We, on the other hand, we don'tgo back, we go forward.
So my understanding is to youknow, to create the awareness
for you.
(07:17):
So you understand exactly theposition you're in today.
We're not going my time andyour time together.
We're going to understand whywe're here today and what we
need to do to move forward theright way.
So I love working withtherapists.
I share all my clients that, hey, at least get a consult.
You never know, especially men.
(07:38):
Men are tough to crack.
I don't need a therapist, Ihave you.
No, if I'm recommending someone, that's me telling you you
pretty much need to, at least totry it out.
We are professionals in theprocess of divorce, so we
understand exactly expectedobstacles and unexpected
obstacles that can show up in adivorce.
(08:00):
So we create options, so you'reready for anything and it's
thrown at your way, so that youare prepared and we understand
the paperwork.
We understand what you'repossibly going to be, how we
need to prepare you formediation and preparing you for
your attorney meets.
Because you're an attorney, youlove your clients to show up
prepared and ready to go.
(08:21):
You don't have to pull outinformation.
Yes, you're getting paid by thehour, but it makes better sense
of your time and your client'stime if they're prepared on the
front end of your time and yourclient's time if they're
prepared on the front end.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
A hundred percent agree.
The one thing that I would sayis that most attorneys do charge
by the hour, and so clientshave an incentive to be prepared
.
Our office actually takes adifferent approach and we
actually charge a flat feesbasis.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So because so much better so much better.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
it's better for the client in knowing that they know
exactly what to expect.
I find that it helps ourclients also be encouraged to
communicate with us, becausethey don't have to worry about
the fact that they're going tobe charged for every email or
phone call or meeting with us,so we get the information
(09:16):
necessary to help them get totheir goals.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I commend you guys for doing that because I think
most law firms need to reallycircle back and look at that
structure.
I just you know and I get it.
You know you go to school andthis is what.
But you know you make an oathto do what's best for your
client.
It's not good for you if youmake your client makes $80,000 a
year to have an $80,000attorney bill because it's five
(09:42):
years to recoup their life, notto assets and savings and
everything else are losing.
So I really you know, I canappreciate, you know that method
of how you take care of yourclients and that's very
beneficial.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Absolutely.
The other thing that I wouldequate the divorce coach to and
like the therapy analysis isvery much what I think of as
like mediation versus litigation.
Mediation is kind of like thatdivorce coach we're looking at
what the problem is now and howare we going to solve it for the
(10:16):
future.
How can we put in placestructure so that you have a
framework to work for towardsthe future, versus litigation,
where the court's looking at orthe judge is looking at, well,
what were all the things thathappened previously and how did
you get here?
And that's how we're going tomake the determination.
(10:37):
So I don't think most peoplekind of think of it that way,
but I think that when you saidthat you know the looking back
versus where we are now remindedme of that.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, and I still have therapists that I can
really appreciate them workingtogether, actually moving
forward with me, because I'm onthe process development side,
the attorneys handling thelegalities and helping them
mentally, you know, get overcertain traumatic issues.
You know I can walk peoplethrough and help shift some
(11:10):
perspective.
But I'm a professional knowingif someone's better to meet
these needs.
I'm putting you in the gameLike let's go, you know, because
as a team we can all help ourclients.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
A hundred percent, and I do think it does take that
divorce team to fully supportthe client.
Correct support the clientCorrect.
So I know you know obviouslydivorce is a very emotional
process, as you kind of alludedto before, but there's also a
(11:41):
significant business aspect toit.
How do you work with yourclients to approach divorce with
that business mindset, toprotect their interest?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So normally in the first few meets, you know that I
meet with my clients.
You know I understand that Imeet everybody and really
they're they're really panicstate, right, it's the fear of
the unknown.
I have no idea what I need todo next.
And this is really the fears.
As adults, you know, if we havechildren, we fear for a lot of
things, but now the uncertaintyfacts you have no idea.
(12:14):
The next step you make is veryimportant.
So it's very critical for youto look at this a different way
Now.
If you're going into a divorcealone and you just hire an
attorney, that attorney does notunderstand exactly how you're
feeling and what you really,what you really want today for
this divorce you may want,tomorrow it may be different,
(12:34):
because you have no idea andyou're, you have 10,000 thoughts
.
So what I do is I sit myclients down and we start
forecasting out.
You know, in a perfect world,this is where we would like to
be.
How are we going to and takingthe proper steps to get there.
So you know most of the peopleas a business, if you're a
successful business owner andthe reason why you are
(12:57):
successful business ownersbecause you make the right
business decisions.
Most people, especially inlarger corporations.
There's no emotions in business.
So I have to sit here and talkto my clients and kind of get
them to understand how to thinkdifferently, that say, hey look,
disagreement just of marriagedoesn't work out.
Ok, now we have to go into thedivorce phase.
(13:19):
How are you going to show up?
How are we going to do thiswhere you can think clearly?
Because, yes, I know yourspouses, you think they're evil
and nasty to you and they may bedoing bad things to you
currently, but the ball is inyour court and you can only can
control what you can control.
So, processing different things.
(13:40):
So, strategies you know mostpeople have no strategy going
into a divorce.
Okay, we're going to eliminateand we're going to, you know,
put perspective issues thatcould be up on the table.
You know what, if they come atyou with this for a parenting
plan, here's other options tokind of counter, and this is
where we need to be, so reallygetting them to focus on.
(14:00):
Hey, I understand, I'm reallyin a tough spot, but I need to
think about all you know aspectsof this divorce.
I don't want to act this way,because if I act this way,
what's the reaction.
And then so we start goingthrough kind of all the options
and the kind of the stepsthrough the divorce process so
it allows them to be in controlof their divorce.
(14:22):
I'm not telling my clients whatto do, you know, and attorneys
don't tell them what to do.
They just say, hey, is thiswhat you want to do?
And if you say yes, thenthey're going to roll with it.
That might not be what.
So getting them to where theyare in full control of what they
want to do and if it doesn't gotheir way for this option,
(14:44):
create another option that theycan work with and that they can
believe in and they can workthrough.
So business decisions reallycome.
It's keeping your emotions incheck and looking down the road
of what's going to benefit meand, if I have children, what's
going to benefit my childrendown the road.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, definitely having that.
Looking at the divorce in theperspective of a business deal,
understanding that it isdifficult to sometimes control
those emotions, but knowing thatdoing so often will reduce the
you know the stress around thedivorce process.
(15:25):
It often will reduce the howlong the divorce process takes
and then therefore typicallywill reduce the financial impact
the divorce process takes andthen therefore typically will
reduce the financial impact thedivorce is often going to have.
If you can kind of keep thoseemotions in check.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
It's so bad too, right, because think about it
going to the gym.
You know, body has.
You know December or December,january the 1st, I'm going to,
I'm going to look good again,right, you go to the gym for two
months and then it kind oftapers off because life happens.
You have a trainer or you're ina group or somebody that is
waiting on you to arrive andyou'll work out together.
(16:03):
There's a sense ofaccountability there too.
So it's also and it's hard,because we're in this, we're
emotional, we have to, andthat's there's nothing wrong
with it.
You just have to acknowledge itand have to say all right, I'm
glad I have some support here.
I need some help because I'mstruggling.
What do we need to do?
So that also helps too.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I absolutely agree, Chris.
What would you say?
In your experience is onecommon mistake you've seen
clients people make during theirdivorce process, and how can
our listeners avoid that?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Oh, wow, the most common mistake.
Well, typically the most commonmistake, I think the first way
is people don't understand thatthere's other resources out
there.
First way is people don'tunderstand that there's other
resources out there.
So first common mistake is theywent and they hired an attorney
and they haven't seen a judgeand they don't understand what's
going on.
And then they find a coach.
(17:00):
They're like I've been withthis attorney for three months
and this is the direction, andthere's really no direction.
They're just waiting.
So I see that as a commonmistake.
So by three months you wouldalready have a plan in place,
you'd already have X, y, z andbe ready to kind of kind of
seize this divorce.
So that is a common problem.
I also see people reallymanipulating the divorce for
(17:25):
power.
I think power is really areally big issue in divorce
because you know especially.
You know and I'm not saying menor women, because I've seen
both sides, but power is.
So I feel like you have allthis power and you're making all
these decisions, but neitherone of them are going to be
(17:46):
beneficial for you or yourspouse, especially if you have
children.
So I think the concept of poweris really something that people
need to understand about.
It's okay.
If they want to make thesedecisions in a divorce, that's
fine, we can let them.
If it's certain topics that wecan just let go, because I mean,
right, there's people thatfight over dogs.
They spend $20 over dogs or aboat or whatever.
(18:10):
They just do not want to giveup.
That literally costs them$25,000 to fight and the outcome
may be the same.
Right, you see a lot of commontrends on all those so common
mistakes.
I feel like there's so manythat people just are not
prepared, you know to to show upand say look, you know, my ex
(18:33):
or my spouse is dropping mychild off 30 minutes every day
and you're sitting there wearingyour attorney out over the
weekend, every weekend, and,like you said earlier, you're
most charged by the hour $75email and text per text.
You just spent $900 everyweekend just because he's late.
Right, can we not talk abouthow we can communicate with your
(18:55):
spouse to say, hey, if you'rehaving trouble getting here, I
can meet you.
Another, you know, meet you downthe road.
I can try to come to you, butpeople don't look at.
Nope, I'm staying right herebecause this is what the
parenting plan says, right?
So there's a lot of.
There's so many common mistakesand I think, basically, if you
have the right team in place,that's going to help you create
(19:16):
healthier decisions.
You're going to spend a lotless money, especially if you
have children.
It's going to be better on yourchildren because you're going
to be a better person and abetter, a better parent.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
And that's so important, especially when you
have children is making surethat you are protecting them
from the conflict that'shappening between you and their
other parent.
Correct, correct.
So I know that you do some workwith businesses as well.
Employers.
Can you share a little bit moreabout what your involvement is
(19:51):
with that in the divorce space?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Absolutely so.
Being a business owner, I'veactually employed quite a few
people in my life and I'veexperienced divorce with
employees a long time ago, a lot, of, a lot of issues along the
way.
You know, in my, in my issue,it was like they had trouble
working, they had troubleperforming, they had trouble,
(20:14):
you know, with other issues asfar as financial issues.
So I saw that firsthand.
So when I got my first clientit was a big hospital
organization I helped theadministrator get through the
divorce and she was the one thatreally put it on the table.
She was like Chris, what you'redoing with me's phenomenal and
I think you could helpinstitutions all over, you know,
(20:36):
and that this is a servicethat's out there and I was like,
well, absolutely, I mean, Iwould love to look at that and I
always researched it.
It was like an insurance EAPbased, right, but I found a way
around it.
I created some PowerPoints.
I got with wellness, but Ifound a way around it.
I created some PowerPoints.
I got with wellness.
There's an EAP and a wellnessside, but working together with
(20:56):
both created a certain type ofcontract to where I can go in
and employees have you know,they have support immediately.
I'll give you a short example.
I with this actual hospital thesecond weekend after the
marketing material came out, Ihad a neurosurgeon.
He emailed me at 830 on aThursday evening so I got the
(21:19):
notification and it was urgent.
So I called him back and he was, I mean, in a state of panic.
I've never heard Like he wasgoing 2000 miles an hour, talked
to him for about two hours.
So he was a neurosurgeon, hejust got served divorce papers
(21:45):
and he had a 6 am 8 year oldcancer mass and a brain mass
that he had to do a resectionfor.
The success rate of this kid isgoing to pass away or live and
or qualify for trials orradiation chemo.
He would not been able toperform, if this you know.
So we talked for two hours.
My focus was for him to focus onhis job.
Number one, you and I will sitdown.
(22:06):
I promise we can do thisbecause he had 2000 questions.
So my focus was on his work.
So I said look, how long isthis surgery?
Because it's anywhere from 10hours to 14 hours, all me after
you're done.
Number one, I want to know howyou did, how it worked out, you
know, within the HIPAAguidelines, just knowing if it's
successful or not.
And then let's talk about whatwe're going to do with this.
(22:34):
So, and I sent him a long emailabout kind of how to process
this and you know, so called mesuccess rate.
And then I met him on a Saturdayand he just basically said,
chris, I wouldn't have been ableto do this if I didn't talk to
you.
And that to me, what kind ofvalidated what I do.
Right, that for me, gettingsomeone who's literally on the
ledge and freaked out to maxcapacity, who wouldn't have been
able to perform that surgery,because I was like, what are you
(22:57):
gonna?
What would you have done?
He goes I really do not knowwhat I would have done if I
would have done it, gone throughdoing it or tried to get
another professional to fly inand do it.
So it's very with theinstitutions understanding,
especially hospitals, right, weneed, we need our, our health
care providers to be on point.
Right, our loved ones, you know, we know, with divorce becomes
(23:20):
lack of sleep.
You have multiple court dates,so you have absenteeism.
You know you have lowperformance.
You could have substance abuseissues, all of which lead to an
institution, especiallyhospitals.
You're going to get sued.
Yeah, action rate which that'swhere your money comes from is
going to go down.
So just not just institutions.
(23:41):
It's the same way in corporate500 companies.
It's the same way withgovernment municipalities.
Everybody is performing at ahigh level.
Everybody is performing at ahigh level.
So why is an institution?
Would you not want to give alifeline out to your employees
so they know kind of what theyneed to do to start the process
and to keep them on working atthat high level?
(24:02):
You're not funding theirdivorce.
Very small piece of the puzzleis they're just getting us
started for us to do what we cando to help them provide with
resources and a direction, andthen after that it's on them if
they want to hire us to fulfillthe rest of their divorce.
And it's the end.
You know, right now I'm withinnine institutions across the
(24:23):
country.
I have three municipalities andI have two corporate 500
companies and I have twocorporate 500 companies and I've
also created that I'll belaunching in 30 days is the only
divorce support networknationwide that will provide
resources for professionals andfor everyday people in these
cities looking for, and it'sgoing to be a big platform, so
(24:49):
it will be accessible foreveryone to use, so I'm really
excited about that too.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
That sounds amazing and I agree that having that you
know support there will helpthese employees be better at
their jobs and be able tocontinue to focus and hopefully
get through the process withless stress.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right, I mean, and we you know, as employees, you're
paid to do a job, right?
We never.
When we got hired on, therewasn't a question that said is
there a possibility you're goingto be divorced one day?
That's not there, so it's.
One of those things is, as aninstitution, institution need to
be prepared for when youremployees are struggling and
(25:35):
there's a way for them toprovide that help, because all
it's going to do is reinvestmoney back into your institution
, no matter what trade it is.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Right, yes, well, thank you so much, chris.
How can our listeners connectwith you and learn more about
your work, as well as thisnetwork that you are putting
together?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Absolutely.
So you can reach me.
Cstuart, that's S-T-U-A-R-T atdivorcetomcom.
You can reach me.
That's my universal email.
You can reach me.
That's my universal email.
Will be the divorce supportnetwork should be launched,
hopefully within the next 30days, and that will be.
You could just go under andGoogle divorce support and it's
(26:23):
going to be a very universalplatform.
So everyone in the country willhave access in these certain
cities to if you are thedivorcee or your post divorce,
even looking for help, if youare the divorcee or you're
post-divorce even looking forhelp, whether that's just
someone to talk to or if youneed a professional to go back
or to move forward in yourdivorce.
So that's the best way to reachme.
I'm on LinkedIn.
You can reach me on LinkedIn,just you know.
(26:44):
Go into Chris Stewart, divorceCoach, and I'm happy to work
with you know anybody that needsmy help.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing yourinsights today.
Of course, it can absolutely beoverwhelming, and having the
right strategies and support canmake all the difference To our
listeners.
If you found today's episodevaluable, please subscribe and
share with anyone who maybenefit.
Until next time, rememberknowledge is power and you're
(27:12):
not alone in this process.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
Divorce Diaries.
Remember every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
OK, a divorce coach.
We work with therapists becausewe understand that our clients
do need some of that.
You know that mental healthclarity.
We, on the other hand, we don'tgo back, we go forward.
So my understanding is to youknow, to create the awareness
for you so you understandexactly the position you're in
(00:20):
today.
We're not going my time andyour time together.
We're going to understand whywe're here today and what we
need to do to move forward theright way.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri
Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical
advice on navigating divorce andfamily law.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Welcome back to divorce diaries lessons from the
trenches.
I'm your host, Carrie Jacobson,and today we are going to be
welcoming Chris Stewart.
He is a seasoned expert guidingindividuals through the divorce
process.
We'll talk about some keyaspects of divorce, including
the business side of the process, shifting perspectives and
(01:16):
managing conflict.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, Chris.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Thank you, Keri.
I'm happy to be here today.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thank you so much.
Well, before we dive in, canyou tell our listeners, share a
little bit about your journeyand what led you to working in
this divorce space?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Absolutely.
I've been an entrepreneur forabout 17 or 18 years of my adult
life, many different injuriesthat I've been a part of.
I experienced my divorce in2018, which was a very traumatic
divorce very high conflict,very just, so to speak, about a
seven figure divorce and justthe turn.
(01:54):
So you know, I had a childinvolved and so it really
flipped my life upside down andI had to really understand how
to navigate this new chapter andand really I had to do it on my
own.
So when I got to the pointwhere I could sell my companies
in 2022, 2023, I said that thisis really what I want to do is I
(02:15):
want to get in back into thespace and help individuals like
myself and everyone else thatjust really didn't know what to
do, and do things the right way.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Absolutely.
I'm sure going through thatexperience of such a high
conflict divorce changed yourperspective on how things could
be improved.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Absolutely.
I had no idea what I was in forand I did what everybody else
did, right, you know youunderstanding a separation and
you just go and hire the, youknow whoever recommends an
attorney.
So I had to go get a highprofile attorney before I knew
it.
I'm, you know it's a fiftythousand dollar retainer at
eight hundred an hour, and I'm Ihaven't even seen a judge yet
(03:00):
and I'm already in one hundredthousand dollars and I'm going
on.
You know my child's beingweaponized to me and like I'm
not being able to see my childlike I'm supposed to, and so I
just I had no idea like goinginto this.
It was just, you know this,this, I guess, just such a
struggle, right?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, if you had to do it over again, would you have
hired the same type of attorneyat the outset, or would you
have taken a different approach?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I would hire a coach.
I would hire a coach and I hadno idea what coaching was, and
most people today in 2025, don'tunderstand what divorce
coaching actually do.
Today, in 2025, don'tunderstand what divorce coaching
actually do.
So I actually went in and goteducated for nine months to
actually be able to helpeverybody in the divorce space.
So I would have gone back and Iwould have hired a coach.
(03:55):
I would have mentally been ableto compartmentalize exactly what
I needed to do without all theemotional trauma trying to make
the right decision.
And so having a coach wouldhave that support where you can
kind of create options of goinginto what type of you know
attorney do I need that fits myfinancial budget and what this
(04:15):
picture is going to look like.
And then, how do you want tostructure the rest of your weeks
and months and years goingthrough this process and also
collectively.
Like I didn't know whatparenting plans were about, I
didn't know you know whatalimony, child support, spousal
support and then all thesequestions and subpoenas just
didn't have all the you knowunderstanding and every time I'd
(04:38):
sit with my attorney it wouldbe this is what we're doing.
This is what we're doing.
I didn't really have a plan.
So I was kind of mercy of my,my attorney.
So I would have hired a coach,so I would have had you know, I
would have been organized andprepared for my attorney meets
and for the rest of my divorce.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I think that is definitely a good approach.
By hiring that coach, they cankind of help guide you through
the different pieces that thedivorce is going to entail and
give you information so that youcan make those decisions
instead of kind of flying by theseat of your pants, so to speak
(05:18):
, in making those decisions kindof ad hoc, those decisions kind
of ad hoc Right.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You know, I think that's the biggest thing that
most everyone that I've everbeen in contact with you know
they show up for a divorcehighly emotional, and you know
what that's.
That's understandable You'resupposed to be.
You know, this is a lifechanging event and most people
don't make the right decisionswhen they're emotional.
You know, especially.
You know I've seen so manypeople.
It's like they just do thisbecause they're angry or they do
(05:46):
this because they're upset.
And I'm like, okay, and you'reunderstanding, you just spent
$50,000 in attorney's fees andyou're upset at your attorney.
It's not your attorney's fault,you're the one doing this, but
you need someone there to kindof baseline you out and have a
(06:07):
professional outlook on this soyou can create the best options
for you, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
What do you tell potential clients when because I
always get asked this what isthe difference, from your
perspective, of a divorce coachversus a therapist?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Great question and I have to educate that you know
pretty much every day.
Right, there's two sides ofthis.
You have therapy, you havecoaching.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Ok are they the same?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
No, they're not the same but they coincide in the
same manner.
You know they are licensedprofessionals, mental health
professionals.
Some have the ability toactually prescribe medication if
, if they have that, you knowthat licensure OK.
Normally you're going all theway back to the root of the
problem to get an understandingof why you're actually standing
here today.
What actually led up to this?
(06:57):
What could I have donedifferently?
Okay, a divorce coach.
We work with therapists becausewe understand that our clients
do need some of that mentalhealth clarity.
We, on the other hand, we don'tgo back, we go forward.
So my understanding is to youknow, to create the awareness
for you.
(07:17):
So you understand exactly theposition you're in today.
We're not going my time andyour time together.
We're going to understand whywe're here today and what we
need to do to move forward theright way.
So I love working withtherapists.
I share all my clients that, hey, at least get a consult.
You never know, especially men.
(07:38):
Men are tough to crack.
I don't need a therapist, Ihave you.
No, if I'm recommending someone, that's me telling you you
pretty much need to, at least totry it out.
We are professionals in theprocess of divorce, so we
understand exactly expectedobstacles and unexpected
obstacles that can show up in adivorce.
(08:00):
So we create options, so you'reready for anything and it's
thrown at your way, so that youare prepared and we understand
the paperwork.
We understand what you'repossibly going to be, how we
need to prepare you formediation and preparing you for
your attorney meets.
Because you're an attorney, youlove your clients to show up
prepared and ready to go.
(08:21):
You don't have to pull outinformation.
Yes, you're getting paid by thehour, but it makes better sense
of your time and your client'stime if they're prepared on the
front end of your time and yourclient's time if they're
prepared on the front end.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
A hundred percent agree.
The one thing that I would sayis that most attorneys do charge
by the hour, and so clientshave an incentive to be prepared
.
Our office actually takes adifferent approach and we
actually charge a flat feesbasis.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So because so much better so much better.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
it's better for the client in knowing that they know
exactly what to expect.
I find that it helps ourclients also be encouraged to
communicate with us, becausethey don't have to worry about
the fact that they're going tobe charged for every email or
phone call or meeting with us,so we get the information
(09:16):
necessary to help them get totheir goals.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I commend you guys for doing that because I think
most law firms need to reallycircle back and look at that
structure.
I just you know and I get it.
You know you go to school andthis is what.
But you know you make an oathto do what's best for your
client.
It's not good for you if youmake your client makes $80,000 a
year to have an $80,000attorney bill because it's five
(09:42):
years to recoup their life, notto assets and savings and
everything else are losing.
So I really you know, I canappreciate, you know that method
of how you take care of yourclients and that's very
beneficial.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Absolutely.
The other thing that I wouldequate the divorce coach to and
like the therapy analysis isvery much what I think of as
like mediation versus litigation.
Mediation is kind of like thatdivorce coach we're looking at
what the problem is now and howare we going to solve it for the
(10:16):
future.
How can we put in placestructure so that you have a
framework to work for towardsthe future, versus litigation,
where the court's looking at orthe judge is looking at, well,
what were all the things thathappened previously and how did
you get here?
And that's how we're going tomake the determination.
(10:37):
So I don't think most peoplekind of think of it that way,
but I think that when you saidthat you know the looking back
versus where we are now remindedme of that.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, and I still have therapists that I can
really appreciate them workingtogether, actually moving
forward with me, because I'm onthe process development side,
the attorneys handling thelegalities and helping them
mentally, you know, get overcertain traumatic issues.
You know I can walk peoplethrough and help shift some
(11:10):
perspective.
But I'm a professional knowingif someone's better to meet
these needs.
I'm putting you in the gameLike let's go, you know, because
as a team we can all help ourclients.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
A hundred percent, and I do think it does take that
divorce team to fully supportthe client.
Correct support the clientCorrect.
So I know you know obviouslydivorce is a very emotional
process, as you kind of alludedto before, but there's also a
(11:41):
significant business aspect toit.
How do you work with yourclients to approach divorce with
that business mindset, toprotect their interest?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So normally in the first few meets, you know that I
meet with my clients.
You know I understand that Imeet everybody and really
they're they're really panicstate, right, it's the fear of
the unknown.
I have no idea what I need todo next.
And this is really the fears.
As adults, you know, if we havechildren, we fear for a lot of
things, but now the uncertaintyfacts you have no idea.
(12:14):
The next step you make is veryimportant.
So it's very critical for youto look at this a different way
Now.
If you're going into a divorcealone and you just hire an
attorney, that attorney does notunderstand exactly how you're
feeling and what you really,what you really want today for
this divorce you may want,tomorrow it may be different,
(12:34):
because you have no idea andyou're, you have 10,000 thoughts
.
So what I do is I sit myclients down and we start
forecasting out.
You know, in a perfect world,this is where we would like to
be.
How are we going to and takingthe proper steps to get there.
So you know most of the peopleas a business, if you're a
successful business owner andthe reason why you are
(12:57):
successful business ownersbecause you make the right
business decisions.
Most people, especially inlarger corporations.
There's no emotions in business.
So I have to sit here and talkto my clients and kind of get
them to understand how to thinkdifferently, that say, hey look,
disagreement just of marriagedoesn't work out.
Ok, now we have to go into thedivorce phase.
(13:19):
How are you going to show up?
How are we going to do thiswhere you can think clearly?
Because, yes, I know yourspouses, you think they're evil
and nasty to you and they may bedoing bad things to you
currently, but the ball is inyour court and you can only can
control what you can control.
So, processing different things.
(13:40):
So, strategies you know mostpeople have no strategy going
into a divorce.
Okay, we're going to eliminateand we're going to, you know,
put perspective issues thatcould be up on the table.
You know what, if they come atyou with this for a parenting
plan, here's other options tokind of counter, and this is
where we need to be, so reallygetting them to focus on.
(14:00):
Hey, I understand, I'm reallyin a tough spot, but I need to
think about all you know aspectsof this divorce.
I don't want to act this way,because if I act this way,
what's the reaction.
And then so we start goingthrough kind of all the options
and the kind of the stepsthrough the divorce process so
it allows them to be in controlof their divorce.
(14:22):
I'm not telling my clients whatto do, you know, and attorneys
don't tell them what to do.
They just say, hey, is thiswhat you want to do?
And if you say yes, thenthey're going to roll with it.
That might not be what.
So getting them to where theyare in full control of what they
want to do and if it doesn't gotheir way for this option,
(14:44):
create another option that theycan work with and that they can
believe in and they can workthrough.
So business decisions reallycome.
It's keeping your emotions incheck and looking down the road
of what's going to benefit meand, if I have children, what's
going to benefit my childrendown the road.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, definitely having that.
Looking at the divorce in theperspective of a business deal,
understanding that it isdifficult to sometimes control
those emotions, but knowing thatdoing so often will reduce the
you know the stress around thedivorce process.
(15:25):
It often will reduce the howlong the divorce process takes
and then therefore typicallywill reduce the financial impact
the divorce process takes andthen therefore typically will
reduce the financial impact thedivorce is often going to have.
If you can kind of keep thoseemotions in check.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
It's so bad too, right, because think about it
going to the gym.
You know, body has.
You know December or December,january the 1st, I'm going to,
I'm going to look good again,right, you go to the gym for two
months and then it kind oftapers off because life happens.
You have a trainer or you're ina group or somebody that is
waiting on you to arrive andyou'll work out together.
(16:03):
There's a sense ofaccountability there too.
So it's also and it's hard,because we're in this, we're
emotional, we have to, andthat's there's nothing wrong
with it.
You just have to acknowledge itand have to say all right, I'm
glad I have some support here.
I need some help because I'mstruggling.
What do we need to do?
So that also helps too.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I absolutely agree, Chris.
What would you say?
In your experience is onecommon mistake you've seen
clients people make during theirdivorce process, and how can
our listeners avoid that?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Oh, wow, the most common mistake.
Well, typically the most commonmistake, I think the first way
is people don't understand thatthere's other resources out
there.
First way is people don'tunderstand that there's other
resources out there.
So first common mistake is theywent and they hired an attorney
and they haven't seen a judgeand they don't understand what's
going on.
And then they find a coach.
(17:00):
They're like I've been withthis attorney for three months
and this is the direction, andthere's really no direction.
They're just waiting.
So I see that as a commonmistake.
So by three months you wouldalready have a plan in place,
you'd already have X, y, z andbe ready to kind of kind of
seize this divorce.
So that is a common problem.
I also see people reallymanipulating the divorce for
(17:25):
power.
I think power is really areally big issue in divorce
because you know especially.
You know and I'm not saying menor women, because I've seen
both sides, but power is.
So I feel like you have allthis power and you're making all
these decisions, but neitherone of them are going to be
(17:46):
beneficial for you or yourspouse, especially if you have
children.
So I think the concept of poweris really something that people
need to understand about.
It's okay.
If they want to make thesedecisions in a divorce, that's
fine, we can let them.
If it's certain topics that wecan just let go, because I mean,
right, there's people thatfight over dogs.
They spend $20 over dogs or aboat or whatever.
(18:10):
They just do not want to giveup.
That literally costs them$25,000 to fight and the outcome
may be the same.
Right, you see a lot of commontrends on all those so common
mistakes.
I feel like there's so manythat people just are not
prepared, you know to to show upand say look, you know, my ex
(18:33):
or my spouse is dropping mychild off 30 minutes every day
and you're sitting there wearingyour attorney out over the
weekend, every weekend, and,like you said earlier, you're
most charged by the hour $75email and text per text.
You just spent $900 everyweekend just because he's late.
Right, can we not talk abouthow we can communicate with your
(18:55):
spouse to say, hey, if you'rehaving trouble getting here, I
can meet you.
Another, you know, meet you downthe road.
I can try to come to you, butpeople don't look at.
Nope, I'm staying right herebecause this is what the
parenting plan says, right?
So there's a lot of.
There's so many common mistakesand I think, basically, if you
have the right team in place,that's going to help you create
(19:16):
healthier decisions.
You're going to spend a lotless money, especially if you
have children.
It's going to be better on yourchildren because you're going
to be a better person and abetter, a better parent.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
And that's so important, especially when you
have children is making surethat you are protecting them
from the conflict that'shappening between you and their
other parent.
Correct, correct.
So I know that you do some workwith businesses as well.
Employers.
Can you share a little bit moreabout what your involvement is
(19:51):
with that in the divorce space?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Absolutely so.
Being a business owner, I'veactually employed quite a few
people in my life and I'veexperienced divorce with
employees a long time ago, a lot, of, a lot of issues along the
way.
You know, in my, in my issue,it was like they had trouble
working, they had troubleperforming, they had trouble,
(20:14):
you know, with other issues asfar as financial issues.
So I saw that firsthand.
So when I got my first clientit was a big hospital
organization I helped theadministrator get through the
divorce and she was the one thatreally put it on the table.
She was like Chris, what you'redoing with me's phenomenal and
I think you could helpinstitutions all over, you know,
(20:36):
and that this is a servicethat's out there and I was like,
well, absolutely, I mean, Iwould love to look at that and I
always researched it.
It was like an insurance EAPbased, right, but I found a way
around it.
I created some PowerPoints.
I got with wellness, but Ifound a way around it.
I created some PowerPoints.
I got with wellness.
There's an EAP and a wellnessside, but working together with
(20:56):
both created a certain type ofcontract to where I can go in
and employees have you know,they have support immediately.
I'll give you a short example.
I with this actual hospital thesecond weekend after the
marketing material came out, Ihad a neurosurgeon.
He emailed me at 830 on aThursday evening so I got the
(21:19):
notification and it was urgent.
So I called him back and he was, I mean, in a state of panic.
I've never heard Like he wasgoing 2000 miles an hour, talked
to him for about two hours.
So he was a neurosurgeon, hejust got served divorce papers
(21:45):
and he had a 6 am 8 year oldcancer mass and a brain mass
that he had to do a resectionfor.
The success rate of this kid isgoing to pass away or live and
or qualify for trials orradiation chemo.
He would not been able toperform, if this you know.
So we talked for two hours.
My focus was for him to focus onhis job.
Number one, you and I will sitdown.
(22:06):
I promise we can do thisbecause he had 2000 questions.
So my focus was on his work.
So I said look, how long isthis surgery?
Because it's anywhere from 10hours to 14 hours, all me after
you're done.
Number one, I want to know howyou did, how it worked out, you
know, within the HIPAAguidelines, just knowing if it's
successful or not.
And then let's talk about whatwe're going to do with this.
(22:34):
So, and I sent him a long emailabout kind of how to process
this and you know, so called mesuccess rate.
And then I met him on a Saturdayand he just basically said,
chris, I wouldn't have been ableto do this if I didn't talk to
you.
And that to me, what kind ofvalidated what I do.
Right, that for me, gettingsomeone who's literally on the
ledge and freaked out to maxcapacity, who wouldn't have been
able to perform that surgery,because I was like, what are you
(22:57):
gonna?
What would you have done?
He goes I really do not knowwhat I would have done if I
would have done it, gone throughdoing it or tried to get
another professional to fly inand do it.
So it's very with theinstitutions understanding,
especially hospitals, right, weneed, we need our, our health
care providers to be on point.
Right, our loved ones, you know, we know, with divorce becomes
(23:20):
lack of sleep.
You have multiple court dates,so you have absenteeism.
You know you have lowperformance.
You could have substance abuseissues, all of which lead to an
institution, especiallyhospitals.
You're going to get sued.
Yeah, action rate which that'swhere your money comes from is
going to go down.
So just not just institutions.
(23:41):
It's the same way in corporate500 companies.
It's the same way withgovernment municipalities.
Everybody is performing at ahigh level.
Everybody is performing at ahigh level.
So why is an institution?
Would you not want to give alifeline out to your employees
so they know kind of what theyneed to do to start the process
and to keep them on working atthat high level?
(24:02):
You're not funding theirdivorce.
Very small piece of the puzzleis they're just getting us
started for us to do what we cando to help them provide with
resources and a direction, andthen after that it's on them if
they want to hire us to fulfillthe rest of their divorce.
And it's the end.
You know, right now I'm withinnine institutions across the
(24:23):
country.
I have three municipalities andI have two corporate 500
companies and I have twocorporate 500 companies and I've
also created that I'll belaunching in 30 days is the only
divorce support networknationwide that will provide
resources for professionals andfor everyday people in these
cities looking for, and it'sgoing to be a big platform, so
(24:49):
it will be accessible foreveryone to use, so I'm really
excited about that too.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
That sounds amazing and I agree that having that you
know support there will helpthese employees be better at
their jobs and be able tocontinue to focus and hopefully
get through the process withless stress.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right, I mean, and we you know, as employees, you're
paid to do a job, right?
We never.
When we got hired on, therewasn't a question that said is
there a possibility you're goingto be divorced one day?
That's not there, so it's.
One of those things is, as aninstitution, institution need to
be prepared for when youremployees are struggling and
(25:35):
there's a way for them toprovide that help, because all
it's going to do is reinvestmoney back into your institution
, no matter what trade it is.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Right, yes, well, thank you so much, chris.
How can our listeners connectwith you and learn more about
your work, as well as thisnetwork that you are putting
together?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Absolutely.
So you can reach me.
Cstuart, that's S-T-U-A-R-T atdivorcetomcom.
You can reach me.
That's my universal email.
You can reach me.
That's my universal email.
Will be the divorce supportnetwork should be launched,
hopefully within the next 30days, and that will be.
You could just go under andGoogle divorce support and it's
(26:23):
going to be a very universalplatform.
So everyone in the country willhave access in these certain
cities to if you are thedivorcee or your post divorce,
even looking for help, if youare the divorcee or you're
post-divorce even looking forhelp, whether that's just
someone to talk to or if youneed a professional to go back
or to move forward in yourdivorce.
So that's the best way to reachme.
I'm on LinkedIn.
You can reach me on LinkedIn,just you know.
(26:44):
Go into Chris Stewart, divorceCoach, and I'm happy to work
with you know anybody that needsmy help.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing yourinsights today.
Of course, it can absolutely beoverwhelming, and having the
right strategies and support canmake all the difference To our
listeners.
If you found today's episodevaluable, please subscribe and
share with anyone who maybenefit.
Until next time, rememberknowledge is power and you're
(27:12):
not alone in this process.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
Divorce Diaries.
Remember every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
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