March 11, 2025 • 28 mins
Navigate the turbulent waters of divorce with our esteemed guest, Gregory Gann, a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and president of Gann Partnership LLC. Gregory brings his deep expertise to the table, shedding light on the distinct role a CDFA plays in carefully balancing financial implications, negotiating equitable settlements, and significantly trimming down court time and costs. Discover how divorce-specific financial planning differs from the traditional approaches and why there's an increasing demand for this specialized knowledge. Together, Gregory and host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator, explore the emotional toll litigation often takes and advocate for amicable resolutions to prevent escalating tensions.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Greg Gann (00:00):
And we are in the wealthiest country on the globe
and Maryland, where we're based,is one of the wealthiest states
within the wealthiest countryon the globe and yet, every
single week, I see bands ofpeople who are seeking to get
(00:21):
divorced and are really livingon the edge.
Welcome to Divorce Diaries,where attorney Cary Jacobson
brings you real stories, hardtruths and practical advice on
navigating divorce and familylaw.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
(00:42):
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Cary Jacobson (00:50):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches, where we share realstories and expert insights to
help you navigate the divorceprocess with less stress and
more clarity.
I'm your host, Cary Jacobson,and today I'm thrilled to have
my guest and friend, GregoryGann.
(01:11):
Greg is the president of GannPartnership LLC.
He is a certified divorcefinancial analyst, CDFA, and has
been operating his own wealthmanagement firm since 1989.
He's also certified an activecollaborative law practitioner,
as well as in mediation, and sohe brings a unique combination
of skills and experience to thedivorce financial analyst world.
Thank you so much, Greg, forbeing here today.
Greg Gann (01:33):
Thank you.
Cary Jacobson (01:36):
So, Greg, can you tell our listeners a little bit
about what a certified divorcefinancial analyst does and how
your financial backgroundcomplements that role?
Greg Gann (01:51):
Sure.
So what a certified divorcefinancial analyst does is he or
she looks at the facts in a case, the financial implications in
a case, and analyzes those.
looks at ways to reachsettlement, looks at tax
implications, trade-offs,offsets to come up with things
(02:15):
that are equitable and help toexpedite resolution and minimize
court time and costs andminimize court time and costs
Cary Jacobson (02:27):
Absolutely, and I know that that is something
that you spend a lot of yourtime doing, so tell us a little
bit about how you, in that role,can assist a person who may be
going through the divorceprocess of a person who may be
going through the divorceprocess.
Greg Gann (02:48):
Well, it's integral in what I do because to me,
everything other than custody,everything about a divorce is
financial.
So having an understanding ofshould we, if we take this asset
versus that asset, what's thereal growth value of it.
Looking at alimony as anexample, well, if you get X
(03:10):
amount of property and thatproperty can bake for a number
of years before you have tostart taking distributions from
it, maybe you don't need as muchalimony.
So it's integrated in everyaspect of analyzing a situation
to determine what is the bestoutcome for a client.
(03:32):
Whether I'm representing justone client or both, as a neutral
.
It underscores everything we do.
Cary Jacobson (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, is there a scenario where your
financial planning comes intothe divorce process?
Greg Gann (03:58):
You know when you're helping a client through the
divorce process and really likeplanning what post divorce is
going to look like.
You know that's a good question.
I have a background intraditional financial planning
but I refer all of that out toother folks.
Today I concentrate really onthe divorce.
But it's sort of like if you'rea doctor, you've been ingrained
(04:19):
in medical techniques andbackground.
So understanding the fullaspect of financial planning is
is, I think, part and parcel ofwho I am and what I bring to the
table.
But I don't this divorce.
Financial planning is a wholedifferent animal from
(04:41):
traditional financial orretirement planning.
So it's important, I think,have that understanding and that
knowledge.
But it really is a separateanimal and this is my real
passion.
My real calling is in thedivorce side and there aren't
that many people who reallyspecialize on the divorce side,
(05:02):
so it really is more of a uniqueniche, if you will.
Cary Jacobson (05:06):
Right, and that was going to be my next question
.
When someone is kind ofstarting that divorce process,
how do they find someone whodoes what you do and is not the
traditional financial plannerthat most of us have heard of,
planner that most of us haveheard of?
Greg Gann (05:24):
Well, the good news is is that 15 years ago, no one
even heard of what a certifieddivorce financial analyst was.
Today there's more awareness.
Today people are looking for it.
Today people are looking foryou know, like for you, Cary,
mediators.
They're looking for people ofdiverse backgrounds and many,
(05:46):
many, many people loathe theidea of having to go to court.
And what I would say to people Iknow I feel like I'm preaching
the choir with you, Cary is thatwhen you go from spouse A and
spouse B to plaintiff A anddefendant B, it's really
(06:12):
downhill.
I mean, I've never been serveda lawsuit, I've never been
served papers.
If the first suit I everreceived was from a spouse, I
mean that would be very jolting,and so it's very hard to
recover from that to.
I mean people do, but it's whynot?
If the core of divorce is afinancial settlement, why not
(06:37):
start with a financial proposaland analyze different financial
proposals and I'm not naive, Idon't think everybody can settle
but at least try there and thengo to court, as opposed to the
way most people unfortunatelyapproach it is to go to court
and then try to settle.
After all, the money has beenspent.
Cary Jacobson (06:59):
I 100% agree with you and that's the way we try
to guide our clients that reachas many or as much of the
settlement first.
But the four tensions gethigher because it is so much
more complicated once thedocuments have been filed in
court, because, even though it'snot as necessary any longer to
(07:26):
make as many you know negativeallegations in the pleadings, I
think a lot of times that stillhappens and it's very difficult
to recover from um.
You know, as that spouse youknow, I often see the people who
have have been referred to usthrough court mediation Right
(07:48):
and I can't tell you how manytimes I've had scenarios where
one of the first things thatcomes up is well, they said this
in their, their pleading Right,they said this about me in what
they filed with the court,about me in what they filed with
the court.
And it's really difficultemotionally to get past that in
order for them to get to thepoint where they're willing and
(08:09):
ready to have, you know,substantive conversations about
settlement.
Greg Gann (08:13):
Right.
I mean, and this is the oneperson you know these people
selected in their lives.
They didn't select their kids,they didn't select their parents
, they selected a spouse.
It's fine that it's not working, but how do you move forward in
a healthy way?
You just made me think ofsomething that I see frequently,
(08:35):
and I have a couple of caseslike this today, Cary, where it
really starts as a divorce.
There are minor children.
As a divorce, there are minorchildren and all of a sudden,
the issues of the minor children, there's a lot of tension
between the parents and all of asudden it becomes a custody
battle as well as a divorcebattle.
(09:03):
And spouse A will say I want toget retribution and I want, you
know, I want accountability forwhat he or she has done.
And I say you know, here's theproblem.
No, it's, there's noaccountability.
You know you're not going to gotoo far.
So and I said, look, let's getyou divorced.
It's a.
You know how do you get anelephant, one bite at a time.
(09:24):
If there are custody issues anddivorce issues, let's get you
divorced and then you're notgoing to have to deal with this
person in the same light.
And then let's address thechildren's issues, Because once
you're divorced, you're divorced, but issues around children can
always be reopened and you know, if you try to tackle too much
(09:47):
at one time, versus bifurcatingthat those issues, I think
you're much better to segregatethem and resolve one thing at a
time and have freedom from thisindividual and then only address
the kids' issues.
Cary Jacobson (10:01):
Yeah, the only hesitation I have from that from
a legal perspective is you haveto deal with the custody issues
at least in part.
You know, have an agreement onthe custody issues before the
divorce can be finalized.
And so often what I see peopledo is, you know, kind of resign
(10:23):
themselves to.
This is what it's going to looklike, right, and this is all
the best that I can do insteadof going further and pushing the
custody issues and it's so muchmore challenging to modify
later.
So you know, it's a differentstandard and it's more
(10:47):
challenging to modify later.
What I hope happens in manyscenarios is if they can resolve
the financial issues,oftentimes the communication
between the parents becomes moreeffective and they can kind of
put the financial issues to theside and deal more effectively
(11:09):
with the co-parenting.
Greg Gann (11:10):
Yeah, there are just some of those cases.
I'm sure you see too, where youknow that it's going to be
until these kids are 18, there'sgoing to be a battle and it'll
never end.
And if one parent says he'sdrinking, and you can do a
testing or whatever, but there'sno guarantee and nothing is
(11:33):
foolproof and until there'sreally a problem.
Unfortunately, our law isreactionary rather than
proactive, and that's just aproblem for our parents when you
know actor.
a bad actor
Cary Jacobson (11:48):
In your experience, what would you say
one common mistake you've seenpeople make during the their
divorce process that could havebeen prevented, and how can our
listeners avoid that?
Greg Gann (12:03):
Well, I think there's so many you know probably
examples, so it's hard to comeup with one, but I think
sometimes people are become soexhausted that they throw in the
(12:23):
towel and this is going to havea permanent impact on them.
So what I always say is is takethis off of your shoulders.
You know, put this onto ourshoulders.
Let let your divorce be ourproblem.
Remove yourself as much aspossible.
(12:45):
But if you, if you'resurrendering to things that are
not fair for you because youjust have been worn out and
dragged down, it's going toimpact you and you may think
(13:05):
that someone's going to help youand you're going to be able to
move forward and you're going tobe able to be bailed out.
But I've seen so many timeswhere it doesn't happen that way
.
So, know when to stop.
That's another thing.
It's tied to that.
Know when to be satisfied andgrateful for the terms that you
(13:27):
reached, after going back andforth and a lot of analysis.
But if you're not at that pointwhere you're satisfied, don't.
Don't cash in.
Cary Jacobson (13:40):
Yeah, I think that is something that we see
often.
It's.
It's really a difficultbalancing point, right of Of
Making sure your interests areprotected, but not necessarily
going overboard and continuingto push for more and push for
more.
But I agree with you thatsometimes people do give in too
(14:06):
early just to be done right,because they want to move on to
the next chapter, but theyreally aren't looking 10 years
down the road.
You know, 15 years down theroad, on how they're going to be
financially.
You know well off and are theygoing to be able to make it when
they could have otherwise beenbeen okay?
Greg Gann (14:31):
And I guess a corollary to that, though, is is
you know, one of the firstthings I learned in law school
and it comes up every singleweek was you can have a right,
but not necessarily a remedyRight, and let's say, you're
entitled to something, but youhave a violent spouse and you're
worried about your.
(14:51):
You know your health and youknow, maybe, even your life.
You know your, your health, andyou know maybe even your life.
At some point you've got tolook at, I think, that whole big
picture and say what is what?
Is it worth?
What you know how?
How how far do you want to push?
How far do you want to proceed?
Can you live with this Um anduh?
(15:14):
So I think it's just importantto look at all, not just
finances, but certain finances,but the whole big picture
Cary Jacobson (15:24):
Right, yeah, and that's something that we stress
to our clients that we can givethem the information of what
they are legally entitled to, ofwhat they are legally entitled
to, but we're never going totell them what they should
necessarily pursue, becausewhat's right for them may not be
right for the next client,right?
(15:45):
Everybody puts a differentvalue on those intangibles that
we're not living the day-to-dayexperiencing.
And so, really, as long aswe're informing our clients so
that they can make thoseinformed decisions, that's all
that we can really ask for.
And I think sometimes,unfortunately, attorneys often
(16:10):
push their clients, you know, togo further when it's A not
beneficial in the long run and bwill ultimately be to their
detriment
Greg Gann (16:22):
Yeah, it's the party's divorce, not divorce.
lawyer's divorce.
And many times lawyers forgetwhose divorce it really is right
?
know that we kind ofdiscussed this prior to the
episode starting.
So a little bit more aboutthose scenarios where you are
(16:44):
working with an individual or acouple who may have limited
financial means.
It's not that they don't have ajob and some resources, but
they really are struggling tomake it past paycheck to
paycheck.
What do you do in?
Those scenarios and how can youreally help them address those
(17:07):
issues?
Well, it really is quite sobering because we are in
the everything bubble, you know, as we speak in January 2025.
And it's been a big bubble formany, many, many years.
I mean real estate is all timehigh, stock markets all time
high, bond market, gold, bitcoinI mean everything is flying on
(17:32):
all cylinders.
And yet and we are in thewealthiest country on the globe
and Maryland, where we're based,is one of the wealthiest states
within the wealthiest countryon the globe and yet every
single week, I see, you know,bands of people who are seeking
(17:57):
to get divorced and are reallyliving on the edge.
Yeah, some of them only havemoney in an IRA or 401k which
they really don't want to touchRight, and others have even had
to tap that.
I see people where one familythe other one side is being
(18:17):
supported with fees by a familymember where the other does not
have that same resource.
I've had cases where I, youknow, defer my fee until after
their settlement because there'snot going to be any cash,
there's no money to help them inthe divorce, and they say I
(18:37):
really want your assistance.
I just I don't have the cashuntil the property sells or
until I receive my share of theinvestment or equity in the
house or whatever it might be.
So that, to me, is a huge issue.
And you know, look, people arevery thrifty when they buy a car
(19:01):
.
I mean they, they know it tothe red penny what they're
they're getting when they, youknow they, they know what what.
They're not great sales.
You know people shoppersthey're not great consumers,
because that's the word I waslooking for because they're just
(19:27):
, they just take blindly whatyou know is is promoted to them
and oftentimes it actually it'snot just that, it doesn't help
the outcome.
Oftentimes when you're pushingand fighting and dealing with
court, it actually makes it alot worse and the parties end up
with less, not more.
(19:48):
So I just find it reallyinteresting that not only are we
the everything bubble, butwe're in the one of the
wealthiest states in the entirecountry.
I mean, we border, you know, dc, which is considered recession
proof or whatever.
And I have to tell you I'm inthe DC market all the time and
people are struggling and it'svery hard.
(20:09):
When you go, they're strugglingin one household and now
they've got to stretch thosedollars to two and you put 50 to
$100,000 in legal fees intothat.
They just don't have it.
It's not, you know, yeah, andunfortunately again, oftentimes
(20:29):
one side has family resourcesthat will pay for that.
You know they wouldn't, theywouldn't buy them a car, but
they'll spend $40,000 to pay fora lawyer.
It's for me kind of strange.
Cary Jacobson (20:42):
Yeah, and especially when there are
alternatives, such as yourservices, where you can be a
neutral and you know, a mediatorbetween the parties to help
them resolve those things youknow our services that do the
same thing or even representingone party and trying to
negotiate those terms outside ofcourt, where they could save
(21:05):
tens of thousands of dollars andall of the stress related to
the court process whenultimately, so often they end up
resolving, you know, rightbefore trial anyway.
Greg Gann (21:19):
Yeah, Well, and if they have limited means, Cary,
how much is there to fight over?
Right, and if the legal fees Isee this so often the amount of
money in controversy between thetwo parties is less than the
legal fees.
There's with that picture,right?
Cary Jacobson (21:42):
I see it all the time as well?
Um, what strategies do yourecommend for individuals to
rebuild after divorce to securetheir financial future?
Greg Gann (21:56):
you know budget?
I mean nothing, I don't haveany.
You know miracle or you knowmagic wand, it's, uh, living
within their means.
Um, I, I find oftentimes peopletalk about repurchasing a home
as opposed to renting.
(22:16):
I don't think that and theythink that they're throwing
money down the drain by renting.
I think, when you're in atransition period, because
(22:38):
interest rates have beensuppressed for so long, real
estate values might notappreciate, they actually might
even depreciate.
So this notion of I've got tobuild equity, well, you know,
quite frankly, over the nextfive, next five, six years,
there may not be any equity.
So, um, uh, you know, but it's,it's I, I can't.
(23:03):
It's a challenge because if, ifa household is having difficulty
saving while there's one roof,it's that much more challenging
when they're when there are two.
And the only thing I can say isyou know, they got to think
about where they spend theirmoney and they got to think
about how they spend on theirdivorce.
Because, you know, if you taketo your point, if you take 10,
(23:25):
20, 30, 40, whatever thousanddollars out of retirement
savings or out of kids'educational funds, it's very,
very difficult to rebuild.
That.
I mean for all intents andpurposes, it's gone forever,
because even if you recoup the$10,000, $20,000, $30,000, you
(23:47):
lose the earnings and the growthon that money.
So you know, they just have tobe wise consumers and look at
the big picture, yeah.
Cary Jacobson (24:00):
Well, kind of as I wrap up, how you know, can you
tell our listeners how they canlearn more about you and the
services that you provide?
Greg Gann (24:10):
Sure.
So I have a website GannMediation and Litigation Support
.
Fortunately I have you know,like you, gary Steller five-star
reviews.
They can look up certifieddivorce financial analyst and I
(24:32):
do complimentary consultations.
I always say to people about 35plus percent of the folks we
meet are not candidates for whatwe do, but I try to make sure.
Well, every single person Ihave dealt with over the last I
(24:52):
don't know 15 plus years, everysingle person has told us that
they gain knowledge and wisdomthat helped them and that they
haven't gotten elsewhere.
At least, if I can help them,you know that, that, you know,
makes me happy.
And then I, you know we engagewith people who there is a fit
(25:13):
and I at least help the peoplewho, even if there is not a fit,
to move forward, because mypassion isn't changing the way
America divorces.
That's my calling.
Cary Jacobson (25:24):
I 100% agree.
And just to let listeners knowthat oftentimes you and I have
teamed up over the years inscenarios where you will handle
the negotiation for the partieson the financial side of things,
you know, especially when we'redealing with those complex
(25:45):
financial situations assets, youknow, restricted stock units,
compensation, those reallycomplex situations, businesses
you know those types of things.
And then on the flip side, theycome to us and we deal with you
know ensuring that those termsof their agreement are included
(26:08):
in their marital settlementagreement and address any of the
custody related issues thatthey may have and then
ultimately help them with thefinal divorce proceeding.
And I find that that has reallybeen a great model for the
clients that we have worked ontogether.
Greg Gann (26:26):
We really have embodied the collaborative
approach, because you handle themarital settlement agreement
and the legal side and I'm doingthe financial and the
negotiation, and we each stickto our, our area of expertise
and our knitting and and theother thing is that the client
gets two heads in questioninstead of one.
(26:48):
So it really works out quitewell and we can we can set our
fee on basically a limited scopeto what we each specialize yeah
, yeah, and so for any of ourlisteners that that might be a
good fit.
Cary Jacobson (27:03):
Um, let us know, and we would be happy to assist
you in that process.
Well, thanks again, Greg, forjoining us on this episode of
Divorce.
Diaries.
Thanks for sharing yourexpertise and for those of you
listening.
Remember that navigatingdivorce is not just about ending
a chapter.
It's about starting a new oneon solid financial footing.
(27:25):
If you found today's discussionhelpful, be sure to subscribe,
leave us a review and share thisepisode with someone who might
benefit.
Until next time, take care andkeep moving forward.
Intro/Close Speaker (27:38):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode
of Divorce Diaries.
Remember every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
Visit JacobsonFamilyLawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
And we are in the wealthiest country on the globe
and Maryland, where we're based,is one of the wealthiest states
within the wealthiest countryon the globe and yet, every
single week, I see bands ofpeople who are seeking to get
(00:21):
divorced and are really livingon the edge.
Welcome to Divorce Diaries,where attorney Cary Jacobson
brings you real stories, hardtruths and practical advice on
navigating divorce and familylaw.
Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious
(00:42):
, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Cary Jacobson (00:50):
Welcome to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the
Trenches, where we share realstories and expert insights to
help you navigate the divorceprocess with less stress and
more clarity.
I'm your host, Cary Jacobson,and today I'm thrilled to have
my guest and friend, GregoryGann.
(01:11):
Greg is the president of GannPartnership LLC.
He is a certified divorcefinancial analyst, CDFA, and has
been operating his own wealthmanagement firm since 1989.
He's also certified an activecollaborative law practitioner,
as well as in mediation, and sohe brings a unique combination
of skills and experience to thedivorce financial analyst world.
Thank you so much, Greg, forbeing here today.
Greg Gann (01:33):
Thank you.
Cary Jacobson (01:36):
So, Greg, can you tell our listeners a little bit
about what a certified divorcefinancial analyst does and how
your financial backgroundcomplements that role?
Greg Gann (01:51):
Sure.
So what a certified divorcefinancial analyst does is he or
she looks at the facts in a case, the financial implications in
a case, and analyzes those.
looks at ways to reachsettlement, looks at tax
implications, trade-offs,offsets to come up with things
(02:15):
that are equitable and help toexpedite resolution and minimize
court time and costs andminimize court time and costs
Cary Jacobson (02:27):
Absolutely, and I know that that is something
that you spend a lot of yourtime doing, so tell us a little
bit about how you, in that role,can assist a person who may be
going through the divorceprocess of a person who may be
going through the divorceprocess.
Greg Gann (02:48):
Well, it's integral in what I do because to me,
everything other than custody,everything about a divorce is
financial.
So having an understanding ofshould we, if we take this asset
versus that asset, what's thereal growth value of it.
Looking at alimony as anexample, well, if you get X
(03:10):
amount of property and thatproperty can bake for a number
of years before you have tostart taking distributions from
it, maybe you don't need as muchalimony.
So it's integrated in everyaspect of analyzing a situation
to determine what is the bestoutcome for a client.
(03:32):
Whether I'm representing justone client or both, as a neutral
.
It underscores everything we do.
Cary Jacobson (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, is there a scenario where your
financial planning comes intothe divorce process?
Greg Gann (03:58):
You know when you're helping a client through the
divorce process and really likeplanning what post divorce is
going to look like.
You know that's a good question.
I have a background intraditional financial planning
but I refer all of that out toother folks.
Today I concentrate really onthe divorce.
But it's sort of like if you'rea doctor, you've been ingrained
(04:19):
in medical techniques andbackground.
So understanding the fullaspect of financial planning is
is, I think, part and parcel ofwho I am and what I bring to the
table.
But I don't this divorce.
Financial planning is a wholedifferent animal from
(04:41):
traditional financial orretirement planning.
So it's important, I think,have that understanding and that
knowledge.
But it really is a separateanimal and this is my real
passion.
My real calling is in thedivorce side and there aren't
that many people who reallyspecialize on the divorce side,
(05:02):
so it really is more of a uniqueniche, if you will.
Cary Jacobson (05:06):
Right, and that was going to be my next question
.
When someone is kind ofstarting that divorce process,
how do they find someone whodoes what you do and is not the
traditional financial plannerthat most of us have heard of,
planner that most of us haveheard of?
Greg Gann (05:24):
Well, the good news is is that 15 years ago, no one
even heard of what a certifieddivorce financial analyst was.
Today there's more awareness.
Today people are looking for it.
Today people are looking foryou know, like for you, Cary,
mediators.
They're looking for people ofdiverse backgrounds and many,
(05:46):
many, many people loathe theidea of having to go to court.
And what I would say to people Iknow I feel like I'm preaching
the choir with you, Cary is thatwhen you go from spouse A and
spouse B to plaintiff A anddefendant B, it's really
(06:12):
downhill.
I mean, I've never been serveda lawsuit, I've never been
served papers.
If the first suit I everreceived was from a spouse, I
mean that would be very jolting,and so it's very hard to
recover from that to.
I mean people do, but it's whynot?
If the core of divorce is afinancial settlement, why not
(06:37):
start with a financial proposaland analyze different financial
proposals and I'm not naive, Idon't think everybody can settle
but at least try there and thengo to court, as opposed to the
way most people unfortunatelyapproach it is to go to court
and then try to settle.
After all, the money has beenspent.
Cary Jacobson (06:59):
I 100% agree with you and that's the way we try
to guide our clients that reachas many or as much of the
settlement first.
But the four tensions gethigher because it is so much
more complicated once thedocuments have been filed in
court, because, even though it'snot as necessary any longer to
(07:26):
make as many you know negativeallegations in the pleadings, I
think a lot of times that stillhappens and it's very difficult
to recover from um.
You know, as that spouse youknow, I often see the people who
have have been referred to usthrough court mediation Right
(07:48):
and I can't tell you how manytimes I've had scenarios where
one of the first things thatcomes up is well, they said this
in their, their pleading Right,they said this about me in what
they filed with the court,about me in what they filed with
the court.
And it's really difficultemotionally to get past that in
order for them to get to thepoint where they're willing and
(08:09):
ready to have, you know,substantive conversations about
settlement.
Greg Gann (08:13):
Right.
I mean, and this is the oneperson you know these people
selected in their lives.
They didn't select their kids,they didn't select their parents
, they selected a spouse.
It's fine that it's not working, but how do you move forward in
a healthy way?
You just made me think ofsomething that I see frequently,
(08:35):
and I have a couple of caseslike this today, Cary, where it
really starts as a divorce.
There are minor children.
As a divorce, there are minorchildren and all of a sudden,
the issues of the minor children, there's a lot of tension
between the parents and all of asudden it becomes a custody
battle as well as a divorcebattle.
(09:03):
And spouse A will say I want toget retribution and I want, you
know, I want accountability forwhat he or she has done.
And I say you know, here's theproblem.
No, it's, there's noaccountability.
You know you're not going to gotoo far.
So and I said, look, let's getyou divorced.
It's a.
You know how do you get anelephant, one bite at a time.
(09:24):
If there are custody issues anddivorce issues, let's get you
divorced and then you're notgoing to have to deal with this
person in the same light.
And then let's address thechildren's issues, Because once
you're divorced, you're divorced, but issues around children can
always be reopened and you know, if you try to tackle too much
(09:47):
at one time, versus bifurcatingthat those issues, I think
you're much better to segregatethem and resolve one thing at a
time and have freedom from thisindividual and then only address
the kids' issues.
Cary Jacobson (10:01):
Yeah, the only hesitation I have from that from
a legal perspective is you haveto deal with the custody issues
at least in part.
You know, have an agreement onthe custody issues before the
divorce can be finalized.
And so often what I see peopledo is, you know, kind of resign
(10:23):
themselves to.
This is what it's going to looklike, right, and this is all
the best that I can do insteadof going further and pushing the
custody issues and it's so muchmore challenging to modify
later.
So you know, it's a differentstandard and it's more
(10:47):
challenging to modify later.
What I hope happens in manyscenarios is if they can resolve
the financial issues,oftentimes the communication
between the parents becomes moreeffective and they can kind of
put the financial issues to theside and deal more effectively
(11:09):
with the co-parenting.
Greg Gann (11:10):
Yeah, there are just some of those cases.
I'm sure you see too, where youknow that it's going to be
until these kids are 18, there'sgoing to be a battle and it'll
never end.
And if one parent says he'sdrinking, and you can do a
testing or whatever, but there'sno guarantee and nothing is
(11:33):
foolproof and until there'sreally a problem.
Unfortunately, our law isreactionary rather than
proactive, and that's just aproblem for our parents when you
know actor.
a bad actor
Cary Jacobson (11:48):
In your experience, what would you say
one common mistake you've seenpeople make during the their
divorce process that could havebeen prevented, and how can our
listeners avoid that?
Greg Gann (12:03):
Well, I think there's so many you know probably
examples, so it's hard to comeup with one, but I think
sometimes people are become soexhausted that they throw in the
(12:23):
towel and this is going to havea permanent impact on them.
So what I always say is is takethis off of your shoulders.
You know, put this onto ourshoulders.
Let let your divorce be ourproblem.
Remove yourself as much aspossible.
(12:45):
But if you, if you'resurrendering to things that are
not fair for you because youjust have been worn out and
dragged down, it's going toimpact you and you may think
(13:05):
that someone's going to help youand you're going to be able to
move forward and you're going tobe able to be bailed out.
But I've seen so many timeswhere it doesn't happen that way
.
So, know when to stop.
That's another thing.
It's tied to that.
Know when to be satisfied andgrateful for the terms that you
(13:27):
reached, after going back andforth and a lot of analysis.
But if you're not at that pointwhere you're satisfied, don't.
Don't cash in.
Cary Jacobson (13:40):
Yeah, I think that is something that we see
often.
It's.
It's really a difficultbalancing point, right of Of
Making sure your interests areprotected, but not necessarily
going overboard and continuingto push for more and push for
more.
But I agree with you thatsometimes people do give in too
(14:06):
early just to be done right,because they want to move on to
the next chapter, but theyreally aren't looking 10 years
down the road.
You know, 15 years down theroad, on how they're going to be
financially.
You know well off and are theygoing to be able to make it when
they could have otherwise beenbeen okay?
Greg Gann (14:31):
And I guess a corollary to that, though, is is
you know, one of the firstthings I learned in law school
and it comes up every singleweek was you can have a right,
but not necessarily a remedyRight, and let's say, you're
entitled to something, but youhave a violent spouse and you're
worried about your.
(14:51):
You know your health and youknow, maybe, even your life.
You know your, your health, andyou know maybe even your life.
At some point you've got tolook at, I think, that whole big
picture and say what is what?
Is it worth?
What you know how?
How how far do you want to push?
How far do you want to proceed?
Can you live with this Um anduh?
(15:14):
So I think it's just importantto look at all, not just
finances, but certain finances,but the whole big picture
Cary Jacobson (15:24):
Right, yeah, and that's something that we stress
to our clients that we can givethem the information of what
they are legally entitled to, ofwhat they are legally entitled
to, but we're never going totell them what they should
necessarily pursue, becausewhat's right for them may not be
right for the next client,right?
(15:45):
Everybody puts a differentvalue on those intangibles that
we're not living the day-to-dayexperiencing.
And so, really, as long aswe're informing our clients so
that they can make thoseinformed decisions, that's all
that we can really ask for.
And I think sometimes,unfortunately, attorneys often
(16:10):
push their clients, you know, togo further when it's A not
beneficial in the long run and bwill ultimately be to their
detriment
Greg Gann (16:22):
Yeah, it's the party's divorce, not divorce.
lawyer's divorce.
And many times lawyers forgetwhose divorce it really is right
?
know that we kind ofdiscussed this prior to the
episode starting.
So a little bit more aboutthose scenarios where you are
(16:44):
working with an individual or acouple who may have limited
financial means.
It's not that they don't have ajob and some resources, but
they really are struggling tomake it past paycheck to
paycheck.
What do you do in?
Those scenarios and how can youreally help them address those
(17:07):
issues?
Well, it really is quite sobering because we are in
the everything bubble, you know, as we speak in January 2025.
And it's been a big bubble formany, many, many years.
I mean real estate is all timehigh, stock markets all time
high, bond market, gold, bitcoinI mean everything is flying on
(17:32):
all cylinders.
And yet and we are in thewealthiest country on the globe
and Maryland, where we're based,is one of the wealthiest states
within the wealthiest countryon the globe and yet every
single week, I see, you know,bands of people who are seeking
(17:57):
to get divorced and are reallyliving on the edge.
Yeah, some of them only havemoney in an IRA or 401k which
they really don't want to touchRight, and others have even had
to tap that.
I see people where one familythe other one side is being
(18:17):
supported with fees by a familymember where the other does not
have that same resource.
I've had cases where I, youknow, defer my fee until after
their settlement because there'snot going to be any cash,
there's no money to help them inthe divorce, and they say I
(18:37):
really want your assistance.
I just I don't have the cashuntil the property sells or
until I receive my share of theinvestment or equity in the
house or whatever it might be.
So that, to me, is a huge issue.
And you know, look, people arevery thrifty when they buy a car
(19:01):
.
I mean they, they know it tothe red penny what they're
they're getting when they, youknow they, they know what what.
They're not great sales.
You know people shoppersthey're not great consumers,
because that's the word I waslooking for because they're just
(19:27):
, they just take blindly whatyou know is is promoted to them
and oftentimes it actually it'snot just that, it doesn't help
the outcome.
Oftentimes when you're pushingand fighting and dealing with
court, it actually makes it alot worse and the parties end up
with less, not more.
(19:48):
So I just find it reallyinteresting that not only are we
the everything bubble, butwe're in the one of the
wealthiest states in the entirecountry.
I mean, we border, you know, dc, which is considered recession
proof or whatever.
And I have to tell you I'm inthe DC market all the time and
people are struggling and it'svery hard.
(20:09):
When you go, they're strugglingin one household and now
they've got to stretch thosedollars to two and you put 50 to
$100,000 in legal fees intothat.
They just don't have it.
It's not, you know, yeah, andunfortunately again, oftentimes
(20:29):
one side has family resourcesthat will pay for that.
You know they wouldn't, theywouldn't buy them a car, but
they'll spend $40,000 to pay fora lawyer.
It's for me kind of strange.
Cary Jacobson (20:42):
Yeah, and especially when there are
alternatives, such as yourservices, where you can be a
neutral and you know, a mediatorbetween the parties to help
them resolve those things youknow our services that do the
same thing or even representingone party and trying to
negotiate those terms outside ofcourt, where they could save
(21:05):
tens of thousands of dollars andall of the stress related to
the court process whenultimately, so often they end up
resolving, you know, rightbefore trial anyway.
Greg Gann (21:19):
Yeah, Well, and if they have limited means, Cary,
how much is there to fight over?
Right, and if the legal fees Isee this so often the amount of
money in controversy between thetwo parties is less than the
legal fees.
There's with that picture,right?
Cary Jacobson (21:42):
I see it all the time as well?
Um, what strategies do yourecommend for individuals to
rebuild after divorce to securetheir financial future?
Greg Gann (21:56):
you know budget?
I mean nothing, I don't haveany.
You know miracle or you knowmagic wand, it's, uh, living
within their means.
Um, I, I find oftentimes peopletalk about repurchasing a home
as opposed to renting.
(22:16):
I don't think that and theythink that they're throwing
money down the drain by renting.
I think, when you're in atransition period, because
(22:38):
interest rates have beensuppressed for so long, real
estate values might notappreciate, they actually might
even depreciate.
So this notion of I've got tobuild equity, well, you know,
quite frankly, over the nextfive, next five, six years,
there may not be any equity.
So, um, uh, you know, but it's,it's I, I can't.
(23:03):
It's a challenge because if, ifa household is having difficulty
saving while there's one roof,it's that much more challenging
when they're when there are two.
And the only thing I can say isyou know, they got to think
about where they spend theirmoney and they got to think
about how they spend on theirdivorce.
Because, you know, if you taketo your point, if you take 10,
(23:25):
20, 30, 40, whatever thousanddollars out of retirement
savings or out of kids'educational funds, it's very,
very difficult to rebuild.
That.
I mean for all intents andpurposes, it's gone forever,
because even if you recoup the$10,000, $20,000, $30,000, you
(23:47):
lose the earnings and the growthon that money.
So you know, they just have tobe wise consumers and look at
the big picture, yeah.
Cary Jacobson (24:00):
Well, kind of as I wrap up, how you know, can you
tell our listeners how they canlearn more about you and the
services that you provide?
Greg Gann (24:10):
Sure.
So I have a website GannMediation and Litigation Support
.
Fortunately I have you know,like you, gary Steller five-star
reviews.
They can look up certifieddivorce financial analyst and I
(24:32):
do complimentary consultations.
I always say to people about 35plus percent of the folks we
meet are not candidates for whatwe do, but I try to make sure.
Well, every single person Ihave dealt with over the last I
(24:52):
don't know 15 plus years, everysingle person has told us that
they gain knowledge and wisdomthat helped them and that they
haven't gotten elsewhere.
At least, if I can help them,you know that, that, you know,
makes me happy.
And then I, you know we engagewith people who there is a fit
(25:13):
and I at least help the peoplewho, even if there is not a fit,
to move forward, because mypassion isn't changing the way
America divorces.
That's my calling.
Cary Jacobson (25:24):
I 100% agree.
And just to let listeners knowthat oftentimes you and I have
teamed up over the years inscenarios where you will handle
the negotiation for the partieson the financial side of things,
you know, especially when we'redealing with those complex
(25:45):
financial situations assets, youknow, restricted stock units,
compensation, those reallycomplex situations, businesses
you know those types of things.
And then on the flip side, theycome to us and we deal with you
know ensuring that those termsof their agreement are included
(26:08):
in their marital settlementagreement and address any of the
custody related issues thatthey may have and then
ultimately help them with thefinal divorce proceeding.
And I find that that has reallybeen a great model for the
clients that we have worked ontogether.
Greg Gann (26:26):
We really have embodied the collaborative
approach, because you handle themarital settlement agreement
and the legal side and I'm doingthe financial and the
negotiation, and we each stickto our, our area of expertise
and our knitting and and theother thing is that the client
gets two heads in questioninstead of one.
(26:48):
So it really works out quitewell and we can we can set our
fee on basically a limited scopeto what we each specialize yeah
, yeah, and so for any of ourlisteners that that might be a
good fit.
Cary Jacobson (27:03):
Um, let us know, and we would be happy to assist
you in that process.
Well, thanks again, Greg, forjoining us on this episode of
Divorce.
Diaries.
Thanks for sharing yourexpertise and for those of you
listening.
Remember that navigatingdivorce is not just about ending
a chapter.
It's about starting a new oneon solid financial footing.
(27:25):
If you found today's discussionhelpful, be sure to subscribe,
leave us a review and share thisepisode with someone who might
benefit.
Until next time, take care andkeep moving forward.
Intro/Close Speaker (27:38):
Thanks for joining us today on this episode
of Divorce Diaries.
Remember every journey isunique, but you don't have to
navigate it alone.
Visit JacobsonFamilyLawcom orcall 443-726-4912 for support
and guidance.
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