From Fear to Faith: Jeff Booth on the Future of Humanity

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:32):
Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Welcome to
2,025.
Who would have thought we've gotten all the way here? And my very first guest is somebody who I've been
admiring
and being inspired by
over the last couple years be since I've become a Bitcoiner.
And
I am

(00:53):
so honored. I'm a little bit nervous, but I'm also just like, let's go. Let's do this. And Jeff Booth is my very, very special guest this morning on January 6, 2025. Aloha, Jeff.
Aloha. So good to be here with you. It is so good. And so,
you know, Jeff, you're somebody who

(01:15):
I I'm
I brought tissue,
because I know I'm gonna cry during this interview.
I I
you're somebody who I aspire
to be like. You know? And I always wanna be myself, and and I always wanna encourage everybody to be ourselves. But, like, you're somebody who has

(01:37):
shown the Bitcoin community and shown the entrepreneurial
community at large how to achieve dreams and then also how to give back. And you give back in such
a generous way. Like, you talk to people who are,
you know, you're not just, oh, I'm gonna go on, you know, the big, you know, mainstream media channels and whatnot. Like, you

(01:59):
give your time, treasure, and talent to those of us who are,
you know, on the the the stairway up of,
you know, doing our missions in life. And so what I wanna ask you
is, have you always been like this?
So it it you you obviously make a whole bunch of mistakes and you improve and everything else. You try to to,

(02:24):
but even when you just said said that, I think I just have a different frame of what what things look like, what what what success
in air quotes looks like. And and and I don't think it's a a ladder
up. I think it's
I I think,
ultimately that comes to so k. What drives our friendship? Yeah. Forget Bitcoin. Forget anything. What drives you and my friendship?

(02:52):
Yeah. The the thing that you see in me,
I see in you. Yeah. Right? Right? And and so I don't think of people as being better
or worse.
Yeah. I think I I think about people as each person having
a superpower,
a genius
that I can learn from.

(03:12):
And it doesn't matter where they are. Doesn't matter. So I don't see I don't see
I don't see it better. I don't see me being better. I don't see anybody above me. I don't see anyone below me. I see us all
as finding a path
and learning on that path. And and each person can be instructive
to whether you're taking a negative that you don't wanna be,

(03:35):
or a positive in somebody that you think, wow. They have they have something that is so brilliant.
I I wanna take a little bit of what their their brilliance into me.
And and I think that's such a great point, Jeff, because,
you know, a lot of people are out there and we've got impostor syndrome. And I know you and I spoke about this previously,

(03:55):
and it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire,
if you're, you know, this
I just lost you for a sec. Can you hear me?
I can't hear you.

(04:17):
I can't hear you.
Can others hear you?
That's crazy.

(04:41):
You want me to dial back into the restream?
Yeah. I'll come back in. Oh, a host has no audio, so it's you. Why don't you jump off and back in?

(05:16):
Thanks, Donor. Great to see you, buddy.
Happy New Year.
Okay. What about now? Perfect. You're back. It's so weird. Like, Jeff, I swear, you know, I I believe in vibrations and energy and weird stuff. And,
the last day, I had a whole bunch of stuff going on with not being able to upload stuff to

(05:38):
Pod Home, and a bunch of people are like, oh, everything's working fine. And I'm like, it's not working from my end. Like, what's up? Like,
but, anyway,
you know, let's
I wanna circle back to the kind of the the concept that you just said that we're all the same.
You know? And if we get down to the quantum level of everything. Right? Like, we're all just part of this one big cosmic soup, this one big,

(06:03):
gelatinous,
beautiful expression of life. You know? And so
I I'm always grateful for your
humility
and grateful for your way that you express things to people because
you're not in this, like, superior expert
mindset position. You're always in this, like, we're all in the journey together. We're all kinda climbing up Mount Everest.

(06:29):
Let's go have some fun. You know? And I think for
for people who are out there,
who are on the journey of discovering who they are and why they're here,
a lot of people feel that imposter syndrome, which is what we were talking about a second ago. And so
have you ever felt imposter syndrome, Jeff Booth? I I don't know if imposter syndrome I ever felt imposter syndrome, but to say that I didn't,

(07:00):
even even what I'm doing right now. So
when I listen to I had never listened to myself on a podcast. I hate listening to myself on a podcast.
Me too. And and so I've never actually listened to myself. Be
but here's here's why.
I always start
a sentence, and I never finish the sentence. I move to another sentence. And I and and that's because I don't know a lot of times where to start with the question

(07:26):
because there's so many different levels to the question
based on that. And so my head is going through all the different levels of the question in the same in the at the same time.
And so what you just described is what you just asked me is me doing that. Because I think about the I think about these answers not in just a one dimensional answer. I think about them in in multidimensional

(07:49):
answer in in
things that I have learned on the path on my own path.
And so to that specific question,
things that I've learned on my own path simplifying,
is
we all want love and belonging.
Yeah.
We're so desperate for love and belonging. We'll do anything to to get at. And we often have a this mirror of our of our world

(08:14):
trying to get love and belonging,
so desperately
while pushing it away.
And I use a victim analogy all the time to be able to describe that because other people can see other victims and they can see, yeah, though that's true for them.
But it's true for all of us, and we do the things because we so desperately want love and belonging.

(08:36):
We'll do almost anything for it. And often, that is also the source of our pain. And when you so so when you ask imposter syndrome,
why people
why why
pause at what level to ask the question
or answer the question
is actually a symptom of that.
I I wanna look like that

(08:59):
for
so I matter to other people.
And then I don't feel like I matter, and so I so I feel like I'm not I'm not real. I'm not authentic,
in myself.
And so that that that
what you're asking is the same thing as I I think I've I've seen in myself and I see in everyone around me. Once you see it in yourself and you realize you're just like every single other person. Yeah. You have the same if

(09:26):
if you see it in everyone else, then you have to ask yourself, okay. Where do I have this?
Yeah.
And
and by seeing this in myself and saying I have it too, everybody has it. Like, we do most of the things we do because of that. And I'm not saying it's necessarily bad,
but then you can frame it in a totally different light. You can say

(09:49):
so if that's true and and the victim is is essentially hurting themselves
by desperately trying to get attention and love and belonging,
they're actually stopping the thing they want most.
And the same is true in all different
versions of the victim in ourselves.
Then where in my life

(10:10):
don't I have everything I could ever want?
Yeah. And that's that was my first
block to to to to uncover things in me
that were stopping my success in in what I said I wanted. How old were you when this happened, Jeff?
In my in my early twenties.
In your twenties. Okay. Great. Let's go go there.

(10:32):
Like, what what what was a Then I just wanna kinda go beyond that. I wanna go,
so that was probably the first time. And then it just it just you get better and better at seeing it, and you see it better and better at seeing it in yourself and others. It became a framework
that I realized that that
that
I can't essentially, I use the negative variable

(10:55):
of what was happening
to me as the positive change for me. Yeah. So anytime I would feel reservation
or something,
I realized it wasn't the world conspiring against me, it was me conspiring against the world. Yeah.
And once and and as I got better and better at that for me,
then I could see it in everybody else too. I could, like, I could literally see that we're all the same. We're all looking for that love and belonging. And and it stopped being about me, and it stopped it started being about everybody else.

(11:29):
And and so for you know, we we think of love and belonging. Right? Like, that is obviously
a driver in how we operate, and it's a driver in how we make decisions in life, you know? And I think it's also a survival mechanism.
You know, if we want to
be a part of a a a
micro macro societal group, it's important, you know, like, most humans can't just live

(11:55):
by themselves all alone forever. You know? And so to become
part of a a group,
it it's a it's a survival imperative. And so,
you know, instead of being in a place where we have to conform to that group,
how can we remain authentic
to ourselves,

(12:16):
you know, and still contribute to the group and still be in a place of,
empowerment, in a place of authenticity, in a place of connection to, you know, some people say the divine, God, love, spirit, universe, Jesus, whatever it is. But,
you know, for for many people, we get stuck. And you're seeing this right now in society where,

(12:38):
you know, people are going along with the herd mentality,
and they're not having
critical thinking
activated. And they're just sort of like, well, I guess I'm supposed to do this and look like this and behave in this way. So what would you say to people, especially young people who might be listening to this,
how to find your authentic version of you

(13:00):
so that you can, you know, have your mental, spiritual, physical, financial health,
you know, and move forward and be a contributing member to the society that you are a part of?
So because because this is so strong in our lives and because the ingroup, outgroup bias is so strong Mhmm. We believe that the group that we are in is the best group Yeah. And we'll conform to it.

(13:23):
And,
and and
and so with with that,
even what you just asked
in the inside the question
is is actually a problem
in the way that you asked it because we we naturally think our group is different and all those other people are this this one same group. And they're all individual actors.

(13:45):
They're all individual each searching for their own way.
And so when
when we ask a question that says those other people,
we take our biases and and put them into,
say, like, you see this all the time in in in Bitcoin. Those NPCs that don't get this. Yeah. Yeah. When we were all NPCs at one time. Yep.

(14:09):
Right. And and because because we because
a need to with our group feel superior to somebody else. Yeah. We don't need to. We if you want to do that, if it's really great good for your life,
then
by by all means, it's not my job to tell you how to live your life.
I'm just saying you

(14:30):
so if you're truly getting everything you want out of doing that, then then who am I to say that don't,
that and then don't do that. But I don't need
to get anything out of that.
Yeah. And I think, you know, you you you just nailed it. I think a lot of us I was just on a space last night with doctor Noah and, you know, several people when we're talking about, you know, atheism versus religion versus spirituality

(14:57):
and Bitcoin or
like, the minute
that any of us self identify as
a thing, whether it's a Christian or a Bitcoin or or a woman or a this, we're creating the illusion of separation.
Right. You know? We're creating,
like, boxes or containers, and it's like me versus you, us versus them. And,

(15:19):
I think, you know, your your interview with Daniella, which is great. I love her. I can't wait to meet her someday. I I really she's such a,
a beautiful sweet soul.
You know, we think about
at the quantum level or at any
micro, micro, micro level,
we're all just part of the same
oneness.

(15:39):
You know? Like, you and I are not different. We're we might be different expressions, but we're different expressions of the one, of the totality of all of it. And so there's 8,000,000,000 of us different expressions, but we're all still
interconnected
inextricably,
you know, to this
this concept of 1. And so when we start thinking,

(16:01):
you know, us versus them, NPCs versus Bitcoiners, whatever, there's no versus.
You know? And and I really
it's it's a hard thing for people to to grasp because we've been programmed with
the the
the tribal
the tribalism, the tribal mentality. Right? If you think of sports, you're in teams. If you think of politics, you're on teams. If you think of religion, you're on different things. And so

(16:28):
Bitcoin to me, personally, has been you know, I've been on a spiritual path for 35 years, and
it's
one of the variables that is mathematically,
able to say, yes. This is what can unite us. It's time. It's energy.
It's numbers. And so

(16:49):
a lot of people are up here in, like, woo woo land and, oh, we are 1, but it's like, no. But we're really 1. We truly are, you know, when you get down to the scientific part of it. So
I true I truly believe that. Like, I truly believe that, and I see that in an expression of my life,
and I see that everywhere around me. If you you use that, Daniella, as an example.

(17:11):
Here's a person
who flew to Madeira
because of the conference we put on so that she could ask me to
to go straight in my new book.
And out of that conversation, you have this beautiful soul
who who I asked to create her own book so that and I would help her

(17:32):
in doing this. Didn't know her at all, but but if and and then and then watching her path
out of what was in her all the time,
right, was always there. Right? To, to be able to create
somebody else who really understood this and move move forward. And then it's gonna be it's just

(17:53):
to me it's super exciting to watch somebody else,
have have amazing success.
Under Andre before that, to which there was a start
of Madeira Yeah. Is just somebody on Twitter who who asked if he could publish my book.
And and all of Madeira and all the conference and everything else and and what's happening there came out of him coming to me and just finding just a really beautiful soul,

(18:22):
and spending spending time. So so people ask why do I do it?
Yeah. Like,
you can't imagine what I get from it.
Like it's it it it's so and and and so
that's
that's why I see that in everyone. Obviously you run out of time. You can't you have to be careful on your time too and you have to,

(18:46):
but where I can spend that time, I love spending that time.
And and and you are so generous with your time, Jeff. Like,
it's
you give back so much to this community and not just the Bitcoin community, but to the entrepreneurial

(19:07):
community, to the builder community, to the people who are the dreamers of the future.
But can I can I can I just clarify that this? And this is where I
I'm actually selfish with my time.
You should be. But I'm but I but I but I but it it looks like giving back. It's just a it's it's a it is, but but it's a 10 to a 100 x on my time

(19:31):
because,
be because it all looks like that. Because I care so much about the people that I'm with
that I wouldn't,
that I wouldn't do it if it didn't look like that. And then if if it's if it looks like for me, if it looks like this ladder climbing game
with anybody, with somebody who believes they're above me or below me,

(19:53):
then
then I'd stop spending time. Yeah. Well, in in,
you know, there's a I I love reminders and sticky notes and words. Words are my love language, you know, and I have, you know, little decks of cards with art and positive affirmations. And one of them is, you know, when you get nervous, focus on service.
And,

(20:14):
you know, I don't know about you, but, like, when
I'm in a place of feeling lost or if I'm in a place of feeling like, am I doing enough? The minute that I can just, like, give a little bit back to anybody, whether it's somebody who's my child, my neighbor,
you know, a Bitcoin or society at large, all of a sudden,
I get to have a feeling of calmness

(20:34):
in my system.
And so it's not a selfish act to focus on service, but it is also something that we get that benefit of, like you said. Like That that love comes back to you. It does. And it's it's this beautiful mirror, you know, and it's and it's real. It's not,
like, just even getting to talk with you, you know, and we've had, you know, several conversations. I remember

(20:58):
last year when I was in Costa Rica and we were at,
you know, this event, and it was all these wonderful visionary people, but none of them were Bitcoiners, You know? And the the the executive, the ED of Bucky Fuller Institute was there. And I'm just like, they don't get Bitcoin, Jeff. What do I do? You know? And I remember emailing you and texting you, and you're like, Val, just be yourself. You don't have to convert anybody. And, you know, you had told me what,

(21:25):
Robert Kiyosaki had said that, you know, you have been compared to Bucky Fuller. And I agree with that. You know? And and
I am such a future visionary type human. You know? And so this is why I resonate with you. This is why I resonate with with Bucky. This is why I resonate with people like Jason Silva. You know? And and it's like,

(21:46):
you're somebody who is like, don't go back into the old playground and play those games.
Make the new playground,
make the new
dojo, and go play there.
And, you know, have you always been that way where
you get that, like, you don't have to go reform the old system? You just build the new one and let the other one crumble.

(22:07):
Probably. Probably, I've always been on the visionary spectrum. Yeah. That means abstract
and being able to see,
being able to see things before they came. So probably that was one of my superpowers.
But but, like, Tom are on this call, you on this call, Justin, like, the the some of the people watching this have been inceptive to my own journey. Yeah. And there there's so many people,

(22:31):
there's so many people
that I couldn't think.
Right? Because there's so many people that are just as instructive to my journey
as they think I might be to theirs.
Yeah. And and and I think that's something that we all
could take note of and remember.

(22:52):
A lot of times, like, you never know if you're the one holding the door open for the person who's about to jump off a bridge.
And that that little tiny act of kindness
mattered to that person in that moment. You know? And so,
I,
you know, I always wanna encourage myself, my family, and the people around me and my clients. It's like,

(23:13):
if you can just focus on being the best version of yourself in the moment and just doing the right next thing,
you know, it's gonna yield results. And you may never even know
who you impacted
with those those
micro things that you did. But
but you're right. Like, I mean You can't tell. You can't tell. That's the best thing. Yeah. You you like, because it shouldn't be about you change them. It should be about them. They change them, and you're just you were a a node.

(23:42):
Yes. But,
providing pause a positive way forward.
Yeah. And and I feel like
our greatness comes from
the people that we inspire and that we'll never know.
You know? And
and imagine I mean, I I know you probably imagine this, Jeff, but I always imagine, like,
what would the world look like if each individual

(24:05):
node of light, our our 8,000,000,000
souls,
just truly focused on
becoming the best and most brightest, most
loving, most self expressed versions of ourselves versus
trying to, you know, convert other people or
overpower them or get them to our way of living instead of, you know, just

(24:27):
really embodying, like, what it means to be your own divine source of light.
So in my Madeira speech where I where I broke down,
that's what I see. Yeah. That's actually what I see. I see see,
I asked Gigi this one time and he, in in 2 years later, he he said, I've been thinking about this for for since you asked me. I said

(24:52):
I I I asked him,
did the Buddha need Bitcoin?
And and the answer is no. Right? But Yeah.
But you so could you reach enlightenment without it? Yes. You probably yes. You could. Yeah.
Dropping all of
everything else, and there's evidence of lots of people,

(25:12):
before us reaching a level of enlightenment with it where
where outside events didn't happen to them. They were totally in control, and they saw different things because of,
because of that. So
could you get there? Yes.
Would it be plausible for most of humanity to get there? No. Because you had a be because you were on a construct that couldn't allow you to get there. That would be really hard because most people would be stuck in fear feeding that system. Yeah. So what what you just described and what Bitcoin is to me

(25:45):
is,
it is primarily this
truthful layer on this layer, decentralized, secure, bounded by energy that
in time
allows more people to see this. And I think what what Bitcoiners
and I'm trying not to do in group by group bias here
because eventually everyone will see it. But what Bitcoiners are seeing right now is the leading edge of what that looks like.

(26:11):
And and they can see the changes, many probably listening to this call or, call with us, or
they're already feeling this in their life,
and they want to they're wanting to experience it more and more, and they're wanting to spend more and more time in this energy.
And that's why they're in Bitcoin. And that's why they're and they're seeing a change in their life, and they're seeing the change in others' lives around them.

(26:36):
And that is gonna cascade
in time to every all 8,000,000,000 of us.
Yeah. And I think, you know, I'm working on this project called Bitcoin for Peace, and I'm putting together,
you know, as many stories, poems, songs, whatever of people, kinda like Chicken Soup for the Soul, member with Mark Victor Hansen and, Jack Canfield. And so

(26:57):
many of us obviously are touched by stories. You know? We're touched by the human experience of how Bitcoin changes our lives. And so, you know, some of us are touched by graphs and charts
and math and all the good stuff. You know? And other people are more like, wow. You escaped an authoritarian regime or you escaped a domestic violence situation.

(27:18):
And so
I think the more that we can,
you know, come together and continue to, like, put the stories forward of, like, the before and after, the windshield wiper kind of thing,
it's it helps people
realize that it's not just this one dimensional
tool.
It is you know, I call it like the grout in a mosaic. You know, I love to do I love art and mosaics. And so, you know, you've got these tesserae and these big things called, you know, people, these 8,000,000,000 people. But

(27:48):
Bitcoin is this grout
between all of the tesserae that
brings us forward and holds us together. And it's time and it's bound by energy. And
and it's
verifiable,
you know, mathematically, which is very different than most things in the world. You know? Again, last night being on this space,
there were people who want to have this objective truth of

(28:11):
this is God, this is spirit, this is universe, this is the way things work. And Bitcoin offers
some layer of that until it doesn't. You know, who knows? In a 100 years from now, we may have some crazy quantum
things that
will, you know,
move things forward in a different way that we couldn't have predicted today. I mean, imagine, like, a 100 years ago, right, in 1925,

(28:34):
that you and I are sitting here having this visual talk on a flat screen, and there's some lights, and it's getting broadcast to whoever wants to watch it all over the world. Like, what's gonna happen
exponentially in a 100 years from now,
you know, with the technology that's there?
So,
But the technology
is us. Right? We create it. That's the the the point in in in I just said on a recent podcast. The best AI play on the planet is Bitcoin.

(29:04):
Mhmm. Keep going.
Can you help people understand what you mean? So amazing to me to watch people play AI
without Bitcoin. Because playing AI without Bitcoin is essentially
concentrating,
centralizing a system that extracts from you. Yeah. That's what it is. Because it has to it can't allow the productivity

(29:25):
to flow to you.
So it has to take the existing financial system and extract from you more.
And then as they're,
and as they're doing that,
they're worried more and more about the events. Like you just said, fear of faith and future. They're worried more about the events. So they're trying to get more money from within it, making more and more AI risky bets and AI and trying to they're all in the same bets.

(29:51):
Whereas all Bitcoin is
is a forcing function to allow the productivity
from our brains that we create
to flow to us because of the free mark
free market. So buy it buy buy that because it's decentralized
and secure.
It allows all prices to fall to the marginal cost of production, which a free market demands.

(30:13):
And and if you're if you're if you have Bitcoin, it means all of productivity
in the entire planet
is being is being
delivered to you through the free market. The first free market we've ever first global free market that the world has ever experienced.
And you are a node in that. If you own Bitcoin in self custody

(30:34):
and you especially if you run a node,
you are
you are
creating that productivity.
That productivity will explode
because more and more people are gonna move to Bitcoin.
And those ideas
and everything that's going to be built on top of it is going to unlock
7 and a half 1000000000 mines

(30:56):
that are going to be in service of all of us, that are not in service today. They're slaves. They're they're modern day slavery in a system of fear. Yeah. They're gonna be in service.
And what we'll see,
all of the additional minds that we'll see that'll contribute to all of us
is like nothing we can even imagine or most people can even imagine.

(31:18):
And so
but it all forces
that productivity to continue
to to you'll work less and less and less through this system, and you'll gain more and more and more
as as humanity
is is on an honest layer.
Well, I wanna I wanna go in that
a little bit, Jeff, because there's obviously people out there, like, you know,

(31:42):
us as as Bitcoiners and people who are futurists and technologists who are excited about, cool. This is a tool. Right? And there's a lot of people like, I look at,
I look at my children, for example. Right? They're college age. 1 of them is in college. The other one's gonna be entering college pretty soon. If he decides to go, you know, that's yet to be determined. But

(32:02):
there is a sense of,
and I, you know, I I've listened to their friends and, obviously, not just their friends, but other young people. There's a sense of apathy and there's a sense of disempowerment
with technology. And, obviously, we know, you know, when the Internet came along, people were like, oh, wow. This is gonna be cool. It's gonna get rid of, you know, the operator jobs where you had to, like, push the button and do the things.

(32:25):
Same thing. I mean, that's what we wanna see when technology progresses. And
but because
AI is so I mean, it to me, it seems more exponentially,
powerful than these other technologies that have come prior to it. Like, what are people going to do with their time that they can actually offer value that a computer can't? You know? Because and I'll say one question really quick. Because I know you and I talked about this with, like, the 11 x love code and, you know, having Yoda in your pocket.

(32:56):
If there's a machine or a robot or, you know, our phone that can answer all the questions that we need, that can give us guidance on a daily basis, that can track our,
our vibrations, our biochemistry
on things like
where do humans come into play where they can still feel

(33:17):
like they're contributing
to something in the future, that they can earn a living that they're gonna be okay with? This is gonna be one of those the level of that question is on so many different levels. And most people that that I'll talk to some of the people on this call will get this.
Tom will get this. Tom will get it. Yeah. But but the but the level of this question, depending on your view of what's happening, is going to be very it's gonna it's gonna be hard. Right? So what does the free market

(33:45):
value? Anything
that you provide value to somebody else
is,
is what the free market
values. So today, we are so early in Bitcoin, like, so crazy early in Bitcoin,
that that
there's obviously tons of value as 8,000,000,000

(34:06):
souls move into,
move into this and our need to understand this. There's value everywhere up and down the stack. A lot of the people make mistakes, but what do you need to do to actually attract some of that value?
Just move.
Just go first. Like, I remember Natalie at her first Bitcoin conference
where Natalie Brunel where she didn't get in. She couldn't get in. She they wouldn't let her in to some of the parties, and she was on a press pass when she had decided, I'm just gonna move my time into this.

(34:35):
And and it it was it's amazing to watch her journey. Yeah.
From moving her time into this. But but I could say that for James Lavish. I could say that for a whole bunch of other people. I could say that for me just by moving my time
that that you could see
is, see what came back to to you by providing value to other people. So that's how the free that's how the free market works. We're really early in that. There's tons of additional value,

(35:03):
to come.
We will always find problems.
There will always be things to do. Yeah.
But but those problems,
every time we solve a problem,
the
and more and more people
so why I say the free market is so,
you know, gonna back up.

(35:23):
The thing that is scarce
that creates margin
creates the opportunity.
Right? It's almost,
the the yin and the yang of a a market. The thing that create is scarce.
So if you had scarcity, let's say, where
way back in time worried about fertilizers growing enough food.

(35:45):
We invent fertilizers.
It comes from our mind. Yeah. All that. You could actually argue that Bitcoin
had to come when it came
because of the worry
of of what what what would happen in a centralized or it came at exactly the right time for humanity to start to see it.
And 20 years of cryptography, cypherpunks

(36:07):
trying
to crack this code
and get solved, like, an iterative
solved by sato Satoshi
to come at the right time because it had to.
That's how that's that's how the that's how the world has always worked. We can't see these things coming
until they're needed,
desperately needed. And then they're they're solved by our mind, they're solved by our minds.

(36:32):
So so now just let me carry forward
that. So that AI that you're talking about, everything else, let's let's imagine on two ends of the spectrum.
You'd
artificial general intelligence that can do it if you believed it could do anything you could do,
and more.
And it could be applied into any robotic solution,

(36:54):
all different types, not just robot dogs, robots, humans, all different various sizes, shapes, everything else
into nanobots and everything that that works into our bodies and the and and the works. If you just imagine what that could look like in not very long.
So you have an artificial general intelligence in all sorts of, robotic solutions that could do anything you could do on one end of the spectrum,

(37:18):
and you were living in a system of manipulated money,
then that means all of that productivity gain
that we would use because it would make our lives better,
would get extracted from us into a system that would control us.
It would have to. And what you're explaining
from
people's fear, your kids' fear, what they're looking at is they're they're 2 different thought patterns in the same time, and they don't marry.

(37:46):
They're so worried about
losing that job and what that looks like. Where can I make money?
In a world that I have to make this much money to survive
and it's getting worse and worse
and they're scared and they're they're making it worse with their time.
But if they just have bitcoin,
if that's all they do,

(38:07):
then all of that productivity flows to them.
If all of those prices of all of those things go to 0.
And the AI and the robots are in service of us
because they came from us,
right,
instead of in service of a control structure against us.
Yeah. The opposite end of that spectrum

(38:29):
on
on
even if it's
Bitcoin as a as a store of value
connected to the US dollar.
Right? The opposite and and the the
spectrum is imperialism 2.0
with an ultimate control structure Yeah. That people should be fear fearful of. So if they're stuck in that fear,

(38:54):
then you should
show them the way out of the fear. And the fear
and the only way out and by the way everything I just described there.
It it you I'm gonna go back to a different different thing you asked.
Futurists
when I think about futurists if I look back in the whole of the futurists

(39:15):
in time
very few
very few
that actually
could see
kind of where things were going.
And and I'm gonna include me into this, include,
most
are predicting the present forward without all the variables of all the other things

(39:38):
and and thinking that everything stays the same. Everything is changing under this,
under this framework.
Yeah. And and
you've heard me say, and I'm gonna ask Tom or ask a question here that I should
answer to.
You've heard me say if it stays decentralized and secure,
then the world I'm describing

(39:58):
is inevitable.
It is it it it doesn't matter
if I believe it or not.
It is happening because you have a decentralized and secure protocol bounded by energy, and it doesn't care
what the people who think they're in charge
care about.

(40:19):
It doesn't care about what the piece of paper
says the value is. It doesn't care. It is imposing
a a
discipline
where, with the first global free market ever.
A world where 8,000,000,000 people are in service of 8,000,000,000 people.
And the only way to to create more value or to get richer in that system, and I say richer

(40:45):
not from the construct that we have today Mhmm.
Is to provide more service to your fellow humans.
And that's obviously what those of us who I feel like are are,
we're comfortable on Maslow's hierarchy of needs to a certain degree. Right? Like, we have a roof over our head. We have electricity. We have clean water. We have,

(41:07):
you know, the ability to communicate with each other, things that
are, you know, what we consider basic human needs. But
still, Jeff, like, I would just the people out there who are
who need Bitcoin the most as we know. You know? Like, we know that the people who need Bitcoin the most are the people who are in the most oppressive situations,

(41:28):
in the most oppressive regimes. A lot of people in these first world countries like ours, you know, Canada and whatnot, they're like, the system's working. It's okay. It's it's it's like a toothpick system. It's not working. You know, it's an extractive system and it's hurting people, but you just don't see it because you're the frog in the boiling water. But,
you know, people who are

(41:49):
struggling
to literally get clean water so that their child doesn't get dysentery,
you know, and and and be able to feed them something. Like, how do we help them?
You know, are they gonna be the leap froggers over us because they get Bitcoin and they're like, woah. This is gonna be
great. We've got, like, a river that runs through our community,

(42:10):
and we can now mine Bitcoin and we're, you know, in a better state, like, gridless, you know.
How do we help people who maybe don't have the natural resources
around them that can get,
you know, conveyed into something that is useful for them? You know, like, there's so many people

(42:30):
who
are living in this this
unfortunate
structure, the state.
So so so one of the things that I think that create creates some
tension or apprehension is I need to do it all.
Right?
And and and what and and

(42:52):
living your best life Yeah. And doing the things that you're uniquely challenged to to do. And why do
why is it that I need it's my job to help them all. Right? They they they like, just just even
even even in
that. We are all going to find this in our time. Yeah. And so what how would you how

(43:16):
maybe I'll ask the question to you in a different way. K.
The
who are you most inspired by, and what do they do?
And and and probably they show up
with integrity and,
and and they're the best them
constantly learning.
And

(43:39):
and that's what
it might be different for you or what but but how do you look at somebody else who's making a difference in in the in the world? And then we all make difference in our own way.
For for me, personally, obviously, I look up at, obviously, people like you, people like Tomer, people like Bucky Fuller, people like Mother Teresa. And I look at, you know, the the the three letter word called God, and I don't

(44:05):
I don't have one, you know, identity that's like, yeah, that's who I wanna be or that's who what inspires me. But I look at it like a remember the light bright things back in the day, the kids. Right? And so we're all this, like each one of us is one of those little pegs that go in and create this hole, and it creates this masterpiece called life. And so I look at different people and what they can bring. Like, obviously, I have Prince around me a lot. Like, Prince is somebody who,

(44:32):
as an artist, as a creative, as somebody who's like, screw the system.
This isn't
extractive for artists. You know? Like, I really admired the way that he pushed himself forward and was like, I don't need to be a slave. I mean, he wrote slave on his face, you know. And,
so there's all these different,
aspects and characteristics of different people that

(44:54):
in inspire
and and guide
my choices of who I wanna be. But I still just wanna be Val, you know, whoever Val is. But, like, I'm I'm influenced by all of the other little light bright colors that each one of you are. You know? That's what it looks like. It looks like one person at a time. Yeah. Touching one person at a time. That's what it looks like. And and, honestly, if I even think about my own journey,

(45:20):
I can't tell you for sure
when some
of the the people probably on this call,
they
influenced
my journey
without them knowing they influenced my journey. Because it might it might have been in my cut subconscious
prior to me even writing the book

(45:41):
and then seeing seeing,
some of the work that was out there before. So but what that means is I'm standing on the shoulders of greatness that has always been all around me. Yeah.
Without without my knowledge that I did.
Right? And and so that's that's what's happening today, and it's happening
and it's that's why it's such a chaotic transformation
too because we're so early in the transformation. And this is really

(46:05):
not about a system. It's about us
inside the system. We are both the system and the creators,
creators of it. And we live in a construct right now
where most of the world believes in a construct
that is extractive
to them and their time. Yeah. And they don't know they live in that construct, and they don't know that their actions are perpetuating

(46:26):
the the the worst in that system.
And so I could look at those things, and I could have empathy for the massive empathy.
Mhmm. But I don't need to be them either. Right. Right? I could feel it, like, I I I know
that and and I think you asked
a question before or later by email
on how do you stay in that in that abundance, in that hope, in that inspiration. Because Yeah. It's the same way that

(46:54):
if you
when when you have a young family and you teach them about,
having a
what would what it would look like in a fire. Right?
And you need a fire escape and everything else, but you don't expect a fire every day. You don't live in a fire every day. You you you wanna be prepared. You wanna know what this looks like. You wanna look down to the sand, but you but you don't wanna live there

(47:17):
every day. You can still live and hope and but be be prepared.
And so that's how I think about that. Well, and I think it's such a great point, Jeff, because, like, you know, we look at insurance. Right? Whether it's car insurance or house insurance or whatever. Like, you wanna be,
you know, covered somehow in your mind that, like, okay.
I'm I'm putting my seat belt on. I don't expect to get in a car accident, but I'm doing this thing that could protect me in case, you know, somebody

(47:44):
swerves and tries it, you know, runs me off the road, which happened to me a couple years ago. Thank God I didn't die.
But
it's important for us to remember, like, we don't have to live in that place of fear that the bad things are gonna happen,
you know, and
and be in place of hope and possibility
and the future. And I think, you know so something that happened to me in the last couple months, and I I say happened to me. It's a gift. It's a blessing, and it's not a victim thing. But I had an I've had an issue going on with a certain family member.

(48:17):
And,
if I didn't have this issue, I wouldn't have had this one conversation with my one friend in Colombia
who said, Val, you need to listen to this book called The Game of Life by Florence Scovel Shinn. And
it can and as somebody who's been, you know, deep into
personal growth and

(48:37):
spirituality and trying to make myself in the world a better place, you know, for the last 35 years,
I couldn't believe. I'm like, how did I not have
this this book, this thing in my life? And it's a 100 years old. She wrote it in 1925.
And
it was
something that was shifting my perspective that said, you know, you can look at life as a war or life as a game.

(49:00):
You know? And the minute that I remembered that it could I could shift my perspective and look at things from a place of curiosity and wonder and,
more playfulness even in and that's what I teach, you know, with my clients and people that I work with. For some reason, the way that she said it in this exact moment reminded me that I don't have to live in the vibration

(49:22):
of fear. I don't have to live in the vibration of
of lack or or scarcity. And,
and I think so many of us, because we tune into the mainstream media, we listen to social media. We're, you know, programmed by the schools, by the governments, by, you know, churches.
We're programmed to be afraid.

(49:44):
You know? We're programmed to be little
automatons
who submit to whatever that authority is. And so the minute
we can remember, like, the only authority is in here
that is connected to the infinite,
then we can be free. And we can be in that place of joy, in that place of prosperity and abundance. And so, you know, when I when I named this episode Fear Versus Faith Versus Future,

(50:11):
it's like when we can get out of that place of being programmed into
every the sky is falling and everything's terrible, like, then our our nervous systems can relax
into
the hope of the future and not just hope as a vision, but hope as reality.
But it's I guess what I'm getting at is it's available to you anytime. It's not future. It doesn't need to be the future.

(50:35):
It's it's always a bit
in 2,000 late 2017,
I've told this story a long time ago. I used to tell all the time on podcasts, but we did
like, I was completely
broke completely.
We'd sold our family house to be able to fund the business
that I walked away from the business.

(50:56):
The
at one time, the the
worth a $100,000,000
every I was a star of
Canada,
and everybody
thought that's who I was. Right? And so so the outward world,
that's who that's who I was and walking away for with 0
and losing

(51:17):
losing everything. I mean, when I say losing everything,
we lost
everything.
Wow. I couldn't pay rent
at the end of the month. 3 young kids.
The the
and and still and I didn't walk away with severance.
Walked away
because if I'd
because I left. I didn't get fired. I left, and that meant

(51:40):
no 2 weeks. No no anything else as and and
so I'm not saying this story for for anything other than than this.
What I found in that moment is I had everything I had ever wanted. I didn't I didn't lose. I had all my friends. I had all my family. I had everything that was important to me. I could have lived in a tent

(52:01):
and had and I had abundance at that moment.
And everything else
just came back.
Right? Because the the,
and so I would be lying if I go back to that that there wasn't at that moment
some
interpretation, fear,
what was going to happen. But I can tell you this. When I realized I already had everything I could ever want

(52:25):
at nothing,
that is super powerful.
And in that moment, Jeff,
like, was there something that you had a lightning bolt, an epiphany? Did you have something that was just, like,
giving you that sense of trust and faith and comfort that, like, the most important thing was obviously your family and your people? Easy amount of love

(52:49):
out for me to, to, to me in in the in in almost that you didn't feel like you that you could deserve that.
Why would you think you wouldn't deserve that? Well, you just I I think it was just so surprising
that that there was that much and that it just all flooded, that that it just so well, so 3 people called with in the same day,

(53:14):
3 three friends, 3 investors in my company and,
and said virtually the same words, but they didn't know each other. And they said,
gonna wire a $100,000
to your personal bank account. You never have to pay me back.
Don't tell your wife.
Like,
who does that for somebody? The the the and and and so

(53:35):
but that would and I never needed to take it because so many other things,
things were happening. But I just the the generosity
and the kindness,
of of what was happening. But but then it it played back
that
that maybe that's because you were always that person. Right? You were always doing that. That,

(53:59):
so it it was just
but my my story from that is
at nothing, I had everything.
Yeah.
And and and I think that's something
for all of us listening, you know, for anybody who's out there listening.
I always think about, like, what's gonna be the thing when I take my last breath?

(54:19):
When if I'm if I'm lucky enough to be on a bed and my loved ones are around me or if I'm jumping out of an airplane and the parachute doesn't open, whatever, you know, it might be. But, like,
what is the thing that is
the quintessential
ultimate
importance? And it's our people.
You know? It's the people in our lives that,

(54:40):
you know, we impact and that impact us. It's not, you know, it's not this shirt. It's not my records. It's not art. It's it's literally the relationships that we've built over life. You know? And
and, you know, when you say you had nothing, it's like,
well, maybe not, you know, the the physical stuff in these atoms and stuff, but you had the infinite

(55:03):
love of these relationships, you know, that you've cultivated over the years.
So if you've had that experience now I think about that experience and
how fortunate am I to have that experience and see that? Yeah.
So I don't think about it. The the the
that is a negative
one iota. In fact in fact, I probably wouldn't have written the book or at least written the book at the time I wrote the book,

(55:27):
had it not been for that experience. I wouldn't have met any of the people that are my, like, super close friends now. Yes.
Without that without that path.
And so it was it was a it would it ended up being one of the best things
to be able to see. And so now I'm super thankful
for that for that journey and seeing and seeing it.

(55:49):
But how could I how could I play that forward for other people to Yeah. Take a lesson from?
You already have it. You already have everything you want. Yeah. Just spend the spend the time moving, like,
if you're early in your Bitcoin journey and and you're
saying, yeah, this is an open network.

(56:10):
Go provide value to somebody.
Yeah. It will be it it might take some time, but provide value not to
the
100 of 1,000,000,000 or or the 100 of millions of people somewhere else. Those poor people. Right? Provide value to the people that you wanna provide value to. Find the thing that you you could you could start with a a a you you could start with podcast. You could start with a a a a a a a a small group in your neighborhood.

(56:38):
And and
and if the thing that I know is
build deep connections.
Yeah.
Not
tons of social media,
narrow connections that I matter more when I have more connections.
Go the because because again,
every scarcity provides us in abundance.

(56:59):
You can feel today
that so many people have such
thin connections.
Yeah.
Because they're they're trying to search for more numbers.
So so you wanna create abundance?
Go the exact opposite way. Deep develop deep connections of people who you truly care about and they care about you. Yeah. And and and I love that. This is something that is is,

(57:24):
one of my 2025
things. When I was,
I was on the beach in Miami, and I was talking with the guy who, you know, does the the umbrellas and the towels and stuff. And I was like, hey. How's your new year?
And we were talking about what he did and what we got to do. And,
he's just like, I'm I'm really just so grateful for the people in my life. And he's and then what he said, he was like, you only need to have 4 or 5 people that you're really, really deep with. You know? And he's like, everything else is just

(57:52):
fake. It's it's just it's good to have a network of people that you know and that you can support. But he's like, I'm so grateful for this really close circle of the people who I really love
and I know who love me no matter what. You know? And
and I think the younger Can I just say this? Yeah.
That circle can be
as big as you want. Yeah. It doesn't have to be 4 or 5 people. It could be whatever. But but you're you're right, Jeff, because I think a lot of, you know, and who I I don't know who the ages of the folks listening right now, but

(58:25):
you're being programmed to think that your your numbers of followers or likes or whatever is what matters.
And it's like the the
the thickness of the the relationships that you have with each other is actually what matters, you know. And a lot of young people are,
they're just misguided,
you know? And they're over there trying to, like, grow, grow, grow, grow with, like,

(58:48):
it's wide and shallow versus, you know, narrow and deep. Of course, it would look like that. Yeah. Because the whole structure of the system they're living in and trying to be measured by looks like that. It would, of course, look like that. Everything that everything that was emergent out of that system
would, of it would be it would be hard
to break yourself truly out of that system if you everything was inside that system that you were measured by by and that would look normal. So that's why when I say empathy for what people do,

(59:19):
and and how they
how they make their lives worth
through that through that
trying to keep up with the Joneses, trying to matter, trying to
just think about it in Twitter interaction. If somebody says something nice about you, you say you're glowing. And if somebody says something terrible about you, it's

(59:40):
but why do you care on each of those? Exactly.
And and What is would it because they're not they're they're most likely not saying something about you. They're saying something about themselves.
Yeah. The reflection of themselves within you. I wanna be respectful of your time. Do we you have time to go for a little longer? You wanna cut? I'm good. Okay. Good. I and I think so and thank you. I I think,

(01:00:01):
you know,
a lot of people get this, like, candle in the wind and the wind blows and they go in these directions. And, you know, if we're not solid in who we are and we're just like, oh, cool. Neutral. Somebody said something nice. Somebody said something negative. Somebody said something. Somebody didn't say something.
It's not our job to even be involved in that conversation.

(01:00:23):
Like, our job, I think, as individuals
who are, you know, moving forward on this path is to be solid and just continuing to do the next right thing. And I know a lot of people, like, again, coming back to the younger generation.
I mean, you and I, I think, are pretty similar in our,
you know, timeline of when we came here on Earth, but

(01:00:45):
we didn't have 247
bullying
of, you know, people saying something about, oh, I can't believe she wore that skirt or, you know, the stuff. Oh, he did that for his business move. Like,
these young people are constantly
barraged
with this
information. You know, you think, like, they would come home, you know when you and I were younger, we would come home from school.

(01:01:09):
We would hang out with our people and go do our life. You know? But our younger generations
have 247
bullying. They have 247 judgment. They have 247,
keeping up with the Joneses. You know? And so I wonder,
like, how do we
without
being the old geezers,

(01:01:31):
because they don't wanna listen to us. You know? When how do we help the younger generations
understand that they don't have to keep up with the Joneses, and they need to only be Same thing as
same thing I said before.
So I I have 3 kids now, 2018, 16.
So
they've been growing up in a very different world and the that construct

(01:01:54):
is the other construct where they would
also
also be tempted by the same things where everybody is because that's the structure of the world. So how do I make sure that they they
more love,
more real conversations,
more more deep
conversations so that they understand what they actually have, and it's not this.

(01:02:16):
And that and and see can see the value.
Now,
value of
charting their own path, what it looks,
what it looks like. Because that is the construct most of the people
that's construct
That's a construct that most of the people
that think they're living in Bitcoin
are still living in. Yeah. Right? The

(01:02:39):
the the the they're
they're so
they're so listening to the new news, and they're reinforcing it even if you said on Twitter.
They're but constantly, they're measuring in a US currency,
Bitcoin price.
Yeah. Reinforcing all of the things they hate,
out of that that structure and it's getting worse for and and perhaps they're making more money and it feels like feels like they're winning and everything else and then their ego gets on beating those people. So but a lot of people,

(01:03:11):
even inside Bitcoin, are so early on their journey. Of course, they're earlier on their journey because Bitcoin's so early. Yeah.
That they're they're still reinforcing the other system.
Well and and I think,
you know, I was talking to a lot of people on New Year's Eve. And my question and I can ask you this as well. And and I wrote a whole giant blog post about my lessons and blessings for 2024.

(01:03:34):
You know? Like, what are the biggest things we learned? What are the biggest blessings, you know, possibly from those lessons or or beyond?
A couple people's answers were,
you know, the blessings were
the number go up, you know, in Bitcoin because they got to feel a sense of exhaling
in their life. You know? And, like, financially, we know,

(01:03:56):
if you're living you know, I grew up in a you know, my mom and dad were divorced,
and so we had a lot of scarcity
around our,
upbringing. And so there was always this tension of money and there was this tension of not enough, and we had a penny pension. It was very,
there was a lot of stress, you know. And so
that obviously cascades into the family unit. It cascades into the mental and spiritual and

(01:04:21):
emotional health of the children
and and the children's children. And so when people get to have that kind
of exhale with like
you just like you said earlier, you know, when you couldn't pay rent, you know, for that period of time,
that creates, like, a bubble of of contagious
stress

(01:04:42):
around,
you know, you and those that you love. And so when
when our minds are in that, like, yay, the number's going up, the number's going up, Then we can exhale a little bit, but it's still
you're right. Like, people are comparing it in whatever, US dollars, Canadian dollars, whatever. It's like a Bitcoin is Bitcoin. We all know that.
But we're still we still have to pay our bills in this fiat system.

(01:05:06):
You know? And so So this is this is gonna be important because it's gonna play out a lot of things that will happen, not might happen, will happen.
In 5000 years, we've never lived in a non extractive system.
Never.
That mean that means as a by if you just go so we've always lived lived in if you were if you were inside the extractive system, let's say sun never sets on the British Empire, it

(01:05:32):
looked like you're winning
because you were winning more than the people I was extracting from. Yeah. Right? So slaves and other lands steal their gold, steal their raw materials. You,
and it looked like you were winning.
In the US today, it looks like you're winning
through through a financial system that if you're at the top of that financial system, it looks like you're really winning. If you're the bottom, you're losing. But even if you're at the bottom of the financial system in the US, you're winning against the people that it's extracting more from. So we live in that extract

(01:06:07):
extractive system we always have.
So what's a natural,
thing that you could say from that?
It
means
no.
And Gold
allowed us to stop that for times. In fact, the rise of the US
was
was the US

(01:06:27):
individual rights and freedoms, and a free market was more productive than the rest of the world. And so it moved people. They left,
they left countries,
in Europe and moved to the US to be able to take advantage of that. And that was the rise of the US.
And then that system got
co opted again
again and is is now.

(01:06:49):
So so we must be if we've always lived in a system of extraction,
and we must, through incentives,
be easily coerced into that system
for 5,000 because we always get trapped by it. We we could have always said, nope. We're not going to be fooled this time.
And so when I think about what

(01:07:10):
and what Bitcoin is and what what it looks like and what so now you have this new
different protocol bounded by energy that's decentralized and secure. And it is imposing
a cooperative system. Competitive
but cooperative.
So competitive is
is we compete with each other to provide more value to other people.

(01:07:31):
And the output of that competition is
relative to that system
all prices are falling forever.
What would
our knowledge
inside
the system we've always lived in? 5000 years of history, all the history books, everything else, and all of the
misinterpretations
of what drove history

(01:07:53):
out of that broken system.
Think about this new system. You wouldn't have the mental framework to understand it. Mhmm. No one would. Right? It would be be very difficult even to hold on to what I'm saying right now
by,
by because this is imposing a new discipline on the world.
But if you were measuring it in the US dollar,

(01:08:16):
then you're actually still because that system, that inflationary
system
has to still be inflationary.
Yeah. The US dollar,
is a is based on a, an inflationary system that if the debt was raised to reset, it it, it couldn't. So it has to still be extractive.
So if you're inside that system, you're probably

(01:08:39):
really easily
fooled
into trusting your Bitcoin to somebody else.
Right? Because you're measuring it into the derivative instrument
rather than Bitcoin itself. Yeah. You're probably also not running a node.
You're probably also not doing because you don't care because for you, price just went up. All other prices fell,

(01:09:01):
and and you're doing really well.
And so that would be a naturally because that system would be centralizing.
And the only system that we've ever seen, Planet, that wouldn't allow that system to centralize is Bitcoin.
As long as people
ran nodes, took self custody, understood what was contributed to this network.

(01:09:22):
So down the road, we are going to have
not we might have.
We are going to have potentially,
there is going to be a break. Yeah. And that break and that break because they're 2 contradictory
systems. And if you're on the wrong side of that break,
if you're trusting somebody else to your with your Bitcoin and you're measuring in the US dollar and you or any dollar,

(01:09:49):
you will probably get wiped out.
So so
obviously, we're entering into this, you know, New Year, and
we we're seeing our your Canadian,
misfit resign. Thank goodness. And we're gonna have a new person here in our
our government.
A lot of people are concerned about

(01:10:10):
the consolidation
of Bitcoin being held, whether it's through the government, through MicroStrategy,
through BlackRock, through these big entities. Right? And so there's conversations, you know, that I keep having with people and they're like, well, why bother? We can't use it as a medium of exchange. There's capital gains.
And so they just
kinda throw their hands up,
you know. And So those people are gonna get hurt? They're and and and I think to me too as a business person, you know, like, I'm how do I run my BTC pay server? How do I navigate? You know, making sure because I'm I'm okay. I don't love paying taxes. I would prefer not to, or at least could I just check boxes on what taxes I want the money to go to? But, like, I wanna do things

(01:10:52):
correctly, and I think there's a lot of people out there who do.
But because it is there's so many friction points, they're just like, ah, forget it. I'm just gonna stay with the old fiat system until it's easy. You know? And I'm like,
revolutions aren't easy. They're not supposed to be easy. They're supposed to have work, and they're supposed to have some friction. They're supposed to be some,

(01:11:13):
discomfort in them. And so what do you say to people who are
kinda on the fence and they see Bitcoin as, you know, obviously a store of value for long term and but they're like, we're never spending our Bitcoin. And I'm like, spend your Bitcoin. Like, if I know I need to go buy a $100 worth of, you know,
wine or meat or pizza today and I wanna pay in Bitcoin, I'm gonna buy Bitcoin in the morning. I'm a spend it that afternoon so I'm not hitting the ball. And but people are like, oh, you can do that? I'm like, you can do anything.

(01:11:42):
You know? But, like, they need a little bit of hand holding and nudging. Like, how do you talk to people who are
in that resistance mode? Just like this. Just they just it's,
when you first when you first bought Bitcoin,
you probably didn't see Bitcoin as it is today as you see it today. Yeah. So your own view of Bitcoin has changed over time as you've seen how how deep this connection is. Yeah. So why would you expect somebody else to know your knowledge today

(01:12:11):
when they're just starting their journey? And so so we have
8,000,000,000 new minds or 7.95
mill 1,000,000,000 new minds Yeah.
Into this,
coming into this
understanding, and they're all at different levels of understanding. And they're going to take their time in understanding it. But again,
it and that's why I say, if it stays decentralized and secure, and I could go deeply into why it will.

(01:12:38):
But but if if it says it doesn't care about what they think about it.
Yeah.
And and what that means is if you name name the people who've tried to cheat Bitcoin
and won.
Right.
Nobody. Nobody as far as I can tell.
Keep the coin and you get destroyed.
And and so lots of people are, unfortunately,

(01:13:01):
gonna be,
trying to because because and that's why I say if we've never lived in 5 in 5000 years in a system of,
competitive cooperation,
and we've always been able to extract,
then
you could expect that the smartest minds, the best, the most brightest would try everything they could do

(01:13:23):
to to control this network. You'd have to expect that. So you'd have to expect everything that would come from that, and you'd have to expect most people
just like 5000
years ago, it would be
we would
be measuring from that. We would think it would be co opted. And so or and and so we wouldn't take our own personal choices to make sure that it it wouldn't.

(01:13:47):
And and so in this in this
in Bitcoin because it is a personal choice and the people that are running nodes and the people that are contributing to it and the people that are spending in it and the people that are doing what you're doing
are all,
are all actively
keeping it decentralized and secure. Yeah. And so when I say we are Bitcoin, we literally are Bitcoin. Yeah. And and in 1992,

(01:14:14):
the the cypherpunk mailing list was 70 people, and they all knew the same things we're talking about right now in 1992.
They knew what would happen.
I didn't know.
I didn't I didn't have this and that knowledge then.
Bucky
Fuller might have known, but he couldn't there was no way to to
to cascade it into an energy based system that was decentralized and secure.

(01:14:38):
And and so there were these bright lights throughout time
that knew that there was no way to create it. Now there's a way to create it but there's not 70 people on a mailing list. There's 100 of thousands of people distributed around the world that are all adding more and more voices
and a depth of understanding
that are is the decentralization

(01:14:59):
and security that keeps us now
for the people that wanna cheat it,
they're they have to try to negotiate with those 100 of 1,000 people that they don't know all around the world and more and more people joining it all the time, good luck. Like, good luck.
So for the people that are worried about the people who think they have control today,

(01:15:22):
I wouldn't worry about that. I would just contribute your time
to the decentralization
and security
and teach other people why it's important for them.
Well and I think, Jeff, you know, I was having a conversation with somebody a few days ago about, you know of course, he's like, you need to check out Polkadot and this and that, and it's innovative and da da da da. And he's like, it's mostly decentralized. And I just looked at him, and I was like, my friend, there's no such thing as mostly decentralized. There's pregnant or not pregnant. There's decentralized. There's not decentralized. And so you have to understand what the value prop is of decentralization

(01:15:56):
versus this other convoluted thing that you're talking about. And,
it's it's so
it's such a game. I feel like I'm turning into, like, this,
you know, lava lamp, you know, that turns into a form and I can go communicate with somebody over here. And then it's like, okay. Your things that you're interested is over here, so I'm gonna reform and look at different perspectives to try to, you know, have a conversation with you from this lens. And

(01:16:23):
it's it's like there's no one way to talk to people about what's important about Bitcoin, you know, because some people think it's a number go up. Some people think it is the security. Some people think it's separating money from state. And so,
it's it's been a fun intellectual exercise that has stretched me more than
anything on earth that I could ever have imagined. You know? Like, I thought, you know It has to be but if it if it's us and if we create the frameworks that we live in, right,

(01:16:53):
then it has to be connected to everything. Yeah. Right? It has to be it has to be connected to to everything. It's not one fractal that people are looking. Now when you first look at it,
you think, oh, okay. This this resets the financial system, or this is a way of truth, or this is an honest ledger, or this is,
it it like, your thing will be the thing that kind of first inspires in. But as you go deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole, you realize it has to be connected to everything.

(01:17:22):
Yeah.
It it it literally is a new it it's a it it it touches
everything because it's it's literally us and the,
and the new new framework
that we've never lived in
before. Yeah. And I think about, like
like, what connects us as humans that nobody's immune to? Time,

(01:17:43):
you know, we have air. We all walk on earth. We have a couple things that, like, no matter who you are and what
your background is or gender or any of it, it's like these things
are ubiquitous. Right? And I think Bitcoin,
you know, we all have to have some form of energy exchange with our value. You know? And because everything has been,

(01:18:07):
you know, this fake money and rocks and gold and paper and things, it's like this is such a new way to look at how we're transacting our life,
our time, you know, and our value in in,
with each other. So I it's something that I I'm still like
every day I wake up and I'm like, I'm so grateful to get to participate.

(01:18:30):
I feel like the newbie pleb
all the time, you know. What a time to be alive. Like, it's just incredible
to be able to to live at this moment,
to be able to see what, see what's possible and actually not just see what being an active participant.
Being an active participant.
And and and I think, Jeff, that's something that's so cool. And you've been so,

(01:18:54):
just so gracious and positive, you know, encouraging me and and obviously so many other people out there. It's like we all have a thumbprint on the sculpture,
you know, and we all have something to contribute. So whether you're a cryptographer, whether you're a business person, whether you're an artist, whether you're, you know, a podcaster or a DJ, whoever you are, like, the whole sculpture needs your thumbprint,

(01:19:16):
you know, and you don't have to ask permission to go put it in the sculpture.
And It's an open mind open network.
Yeah. I mean, it's like, look at like, what other
things have that? You know, you look at music, you look at business. It's kinda like you you're in these weird
boxes. You know what I mean? There's hierarchy in those boxes. Nothing can have that

(01:19:40):
because they're all part of a system
that is extractive.
So that's the that's the point. Nothing else can they they have to look the the the emergent structure of what they look like is obvious
when it is an emergent structure based on that theft.
Yeah. It can't allow the free market to work. So everything inside inside that other system. So you we keep going back to all those people. Right?

(01:20:06):
It just
they're still stuck in measuring from that system. Of course, it would look like that to them.
What would you say to
young entrepreneurs right now who are because I know you work with, obviously, YPO,
Creative Destruction Labs. And what would you say,
you know,
part I was thinking about this 2 days ago. I was like, what if we had like a

(01:20:28):
a a BEO, like a Bitcoin Entrepreneur Organization? Like, my ex and I were in EO and it used to be YEO, you know? And,
I'm like, do we have any kind of I mean, it's
obviously sky's the limit. You can go do what you want, but it is nice to have,
the camaraderie of other entrepreneurs and the camaraderie of other people who are, you know, taking action to move forward. And then you can have mentorship. You can have, you know, peer to peer

(01:20:53):
support and accountability. Like, what would you say to young
Bitcoiners
who want to start Bitcoin businesses?
Yeah. So I just say that that your idea, the thing you just said
is an is an opportunity.
Yeah.
I can't tell you whether you would execute on that opportunity. Great. If you wanted to do it or who would who would. But but, yes, there's

(01:21:17):
there's opportunities
everywhere here.
And then
creating value for other people is the,
is what success looks like in this in this. So the more value you create, the more success you hit. It's it's Definitely.
And so
but there's
like I'm blown away by all the different ideas that I see. And they and what makes me more positive on the future,

(01:21:42):
is I'm watching these things
accelerate.
I'm watching these things, and I'm watching these just incredibly
brilliant
entrepreneurs and people building in the space. If you wanna
I went to Madeira,
at the end of October. And
in March, when we did the conference, I think there was 36 businesses,
accepting Bitcoin. And and by octo by the end of October, there was a 136.

(01:22:06):
Wow.
So you could spend Bitcoin,
everywhere, but but then you you watch what Gigi and Pablo have done with Sovereign Engineering.
Mhmm. You should see what's coming out of there. Yay.
Like, it's and and so there this is happening all around the world.
And it it like, it's it's so amazing what what it means and what's coming that people can't see what's

(01:22:30):
coming because and they some of the businesses will fail. Some of the some just like in dot in dotcom Internet days, some of the You have a free market of global competition creating value for other people on that on this. And all you have to do is move some time. And as you move some time, you're gonna see more and more opportunities, and you're gonna see other people that are doing really cool things that you wanna be a part of.

(01:22:54):
And you might wanna just join that company or join or join what what they're doing. But but the first step is
starting to see some of the opportunities and see and so I get called all the time and I get emails all the time. And I just can't I I I don't hear may be another opportunity. Right?
How do you match make that? Yeah. Right.

(01:23:15):
Because
I can't. I just don't have the bandwidth to be able to to to okay. This person wants this. This person wants this. This group.
But the but there's lots of different opportunities within within this because because you see both both sides of that. You see
crazy great entrepreneurs building a really, really incredible things that are scaling, and you see a whole bunch of people that wanna get into Bitcoin space. What I would say with most of the people that you wanna get in Bitcoin space

(01:23:43):
is they say that while contributing
99%
of their time to the exist the existing Yeah.
So they they just haven't made the move. So how do you start to make the move? Yeah.
And carve back a little bit of time here. Spend 5%. Spend your extra time putting on a meetup group. Do something.
Just move some time. And by the by contributing into there, you're gonna see more people spending their time there. Yeah. I think that's such a good point. And because a lot of people,

(01:24:13):
you know,
if if if we're new to the space, you know, if we're new to any space for that matter, we look at people who are kind of in the the
the solid spot in the space and we're just like,
Oh, what kind of value can I actually add? And it's like, Well, what are you good at? What are you passionate about? What are things that, you know, light you up as an individual? I remember when,

(01:24:36):
I used to live on a sailboat. I used to teach college kids sailing and, you know, traveled all over the Keys and Great Lakes.
And one of my favorite questions was to ask people like, you know, what's your dream and what do you love enough that you would do it for free? You know? And it's like that's kind and and these young people, these college kids would just look at me like, well, well, my dad was a doctor and, you know, my grandpa was a doctor and all these things, and they wouldn't have a clue of what lit them up. You know? And so to me, I think

(01:25:05):
helping
new people who are excited about Bitcoin, it's like you don't have to be a start up entrepreneur. You could go, like you just said, like, go engage with people who are already doing something, add a little value, whether it's a meetup, whether it's, you know, okay. Hey, Jeff. I wanna promote your book or I wanna, you know, anything that you can do to, you know,
become, you know, integrated into the system with your skills and talents, kind of like in your ikigai. Right? And,

(01:25:31):
I think for people listening, like, don't be afraid.
You know? Like, everybody I don't know about you, Jeff, but I can speak for myself, and I think you say the same. But, like, everybody I've encountered in the Bitcoin space has got big super giant arms that are like, come on in. Like, we wanna, you know, welcome you and let's do some stuff together. Not just talk, but, like, let's go make things happen. Just under one condition, play it forward.

(01:25:56):
Yes. And yes. Yes. Yes. And pay it forward. Oh, my god. Isn't that the best?
Like and and you, seriously, Jeff, you,
you emulate that, and you're somebody
I
I have a few people on one hand, and you're one of them
that inspires me to be that. Yep. And you're somebody who

(01:26:17):
I think I told you this before on one of our calls, like,
what would Jeff Booth say? Like, don't post something.
Like, does it pass the what would Jeff Booth say
thing?
So, yeah, I will wrap it up here because it's been a good hour and a half. And I thank you guys all for tuning in with Jeff. And, you know, the the 3 leaps from fear to faith to future, right? And

(01:26:40):
I think a lot of people can be stuck right now in a state of fear, in a state of FUD and uncertainty and doubt of what's going on in the future,
of their lives. But we've got this tool, and we've got this network. And the network isn't just technology. It's the technology of our hearts that are interconnected.
And I think that's what Bitcoin does is it brings us together from a heart to heart level. And,

(01:27:03):
it it's changed my life, you know, and I'm really grateful for people like you, Jeff. And
I hope you know
like, I've had so many conversations with people about just
random
things, and they're like, Jeff Booth said this, and Jeff did this, and Jeff trained to use it. Right back at you. Like, it just I'm just one node,
in, in this network. And,

(01:27:25):
it's important that it's this network is bigger than all of us. Yeah. It is it is all of us. It is all of us. Yeah.
It it is all of us. And so that's the,
and I I appreciate it. I really appreciate it, but I but I I get so much out of this. The the
the the the love from
that I get

(01:27:46):
from, from all of the people in this community is is crazy.
It is. And it's it's
it's this cool, like, reciprocal spiral. And and I know that you don't give it just to get it. You give it because you have it, and you're overflowing. You know? And I know for those of us who who do participate in in that sharing economy,

(01:28:06):
it's just a natural reciprocity that happens. But we're not doing it because we want something back. It's just it's just the way that the math works.
Kind
kind of a secret. Kind of a kind of a secret that if you understand that secret, it's, life becomes pretty easy.
Yeah. And it's like I mean, I don't know about you, Jeff, but, like, when I get up and I get to do an interview like this with you or if I'm doing a course or a workshop or if I'm anytime I'm I'm

(01:28:34):
engaged
with my purpose, it's like
it's not an active
you know, it's not effortful. It's effortless. You're just you're just spending time with people you wanna spend time with. Yeah. It's it's it's that's what I mean. It's pretty pretty easy it's pretty easy secret. Yeah. It's it's magic. So okay. So what are your,

(01:28:55):
2025?
Do you have a do you have a dream, a hope, a mission, a vision for 2025
for yourself, your family, for Bitcoin, for any of the above?
I hope to to finish,
the book I'm working on, but it's a hard book. It's a they'd,
it's the
yeah. So

(01:29:16):
so if I put something on there, that's what I'm hoping. And then I and then just
I want more people to under I
the speed of the transition
Yeah. Is all the the speed of the transition is all driven by us. Yeah. So it's all it's all a matter of when when we get it, not when other people get it, not when they so that that's and and so you could you would literally can move to your your energy and start living a different if

(01:29:44):
your best life now.
You don't have to wait.
Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, I think a lot of people think, like, there has to be some,
demarcation line when you're supposed to, you know, oh, I can start changing now or living my best life. It's like, it's right now, this breath. If you inhale, you can start, you know, changing your life in this moment.

(01:30:05):
And so here's your permission slip, everybody. Here's your golden ticket for 2025.
And,
it's from Jeff and I and from the universe and from yourself, most importantly. So,
I think that's super cool. Well, when you have your book done, and I know it will be done, there's no hope. Like, it's it's it's a done deal. There's a faith thing that happens there.

(01:30:26):
It will happen. I'd love to have you back on and, celebrate what you're up to.
But everybody, you guys, if you haven't read The Price of Tomorrow, I have it
up there next to Julian.
And, do you you're between Julian and doctor Seuss, Jeff. I mean, that's kinda good.
Oh, the places you'll go.
And one of our fabulous freedom warriors, Julian Assange. And so,

(01:30:50):
that's a pretty good station to be at.
But, yeah, go to Jeffbooth dot ca and then you can also follow Jeff on Noster,
if you guys go to primal.netforward/jeffbooth.
And, definitely, you guys for those of you listening, if you don't know what Noster is, I mean, Jeff, you wanna plug Nostra really quick and just tell people who may not know what Nostra is? Yeah. I do a protocol on top of Bitcoin that, is a communication

(01:31:14):
right now like Twitter,
on top of, on top of Bitcoin where you can, have but in
time, it'll it'll move into a whole bunch of other things really early still,
but, but nobody can silence you, can't shut you off. You're not, of you're not a feature of the algorithm trying to monetize

(01:31:34):
you. You can have true honest open communications
and build networks there that can never be taken from you.
Yeah. And that's such an important thing. I keep we keep seeing, you know,
oh, the algorithms, like, don't say negative things or don't go against your government or don't speak the truth or any of it. I've had a couple of my episodes taken down from YouTube because

(01:31:55):
I've asked questions, you know, that
the powers that be weren't happy about. And
we need to have that. If we don't have the layer of the ability to communicate with each other,
how can we have a free and open society that is inclusive for everybody? And so Noster is such a such an extraordinary,

(01:32:16):
tool. And so I would encourage everybody to check it out. And, you know, Primal is one of the, you know,
clients that you can use. There's a bunch of others, you know, depending on what you're up to. But it definitely
so early, like, where we are in Noster and and if you compared it to Bitcoin, we're probably
in 2013.
Right? So it's,

(01:32:36):
so it'll happen it'll happen faster because the technology cycles are happening faster, faster than if you just. But,
but we're so early in that. So people people by being early,
they believe,
oh, there's not enough people there.
But if you invert that equate if you invert that equation,
so similar if you inverted the equation on Bitcoin,

(01:32:59):
The benefit
is being early and showing people the way and and and and working through. And that's the the benefit and also the people that are creating value on top of it is they're creating creating ways to to build more value and all of those things that people are worried about
being it doesn't do what
my other social media platform

(01:33:20):
does today.
That's actually the point.
Yeah. That's the point. That's that's the value creation because you're creating value
in in a difference in different spot. And you'll you'll be likely well rewarded
for providing that value. Yeah. And I think a lot of people were, again, coming back to the younger generation and obviously still even our generation of, like, the numbers, this, we're supposed to have all these, you know, followers, likes, engagements, and whatnot. It's like you're in like a football stadium up in the bleachers

(01:33:50):
when you're in Twitter or when you're in Facebook or when you're in these centralized things. But like when you're in Nostra right now,
you're in, like, a beautiful retreat in the jungle with the coolest people talking about the most important topics, you know, and you're not being,
told to be quiet or you're not being pushed to the back. Like, you're part of this conversation with the people that you choose to be in conversation with, not that the algorithm, you know, chooses for you. So so, you know, it is it's not about quantity. It's about quality, you know. And I and I think Nosta really represents that a lot. And and it is fun to see, you know, all the people developing on top of it and how we're doing boostergrams and all these fun, you know, experiences where young artists can go do a show and have people from all over the world, like, zap them, and they get paid more than they would have, you know, on Spotify for 5 years. So it's just it's such a cool

(01:34:45):
I just love it. I love all the people who are contributing to this movement. So Awesome.
Yeah. So alright, Jeff. So
I'm wishing you the best year ever. I hope I see you many times this year. I'm not sure what my travel schedule looks like, but, hopefully, we'll be coinciding somewhere along the way. Andre is gonna be on the show at the end of the month. Tomer and Bevin, we've got, Nifty Nay also. So it's gonna be have, like, a really good good January lineup. And Great lineup. I know. I'm just like, thank you so much everybody for sharing, and thank you so much for kicking off this year. And, I wish you the best year yet, Jeff. And everybody listening, I wish you guys the best year too. And buckle up. It's gonna be a a fun ride.

(01:35:25):
Right.
Yeah. For sure. Alright, everybody. Peace, love, and warm aloha. And, we'll catch y'all at the next, show.
Thanks again, Jeff. Yeah. Mhmm.

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From Fear to Faith: Jeff Booth on the Future of Humanity

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