October 7, 2025 • 42 mins
DNA surprises by their very nature change the lens through which we view family. Our raise families, our newfound families. Things that seemed normal become less so. With hindsight, we gain clarity on what was there all along. In this week’s episode, Angeline shares how her daughter’s desire to take a DNA test fundamentally altered her understanding of her family dynamics. She shares what’s helped her navigate this experience, and how she balances living her truth and hiding it.
Thank you for sharing your story, Angeline.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I do believe her in the sense that like back then, right, they
just, they did what they did andthen they moved on with what was
the right answer. And the right answer was my dad
was my dad. She was still married.
And that's how it was gonna be. We drove for quite a while, and
then we finally stayed at a hotel and I texted my mom just
(00:21):
like, hey, mom, I love you. This doesn't change how I feel
about you, and that's just looking back now.
That just goes to show I was just so I was more concerned
with her and her reaction and how she was handling this than I
was with my own reaction. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a
(00:41):
podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA
discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis, our salt.
In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out
that I'm an N P/E, a person who has experienced a non paternal
event. In other words, my biological
(01:02):
father isn't who I thought he was.
Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees and
donor conceived people and theirfamilies.
Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin
with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises.
(01:23):
DNA surprises, by their very nature, change the lens through
which we view family, our raisedfamilies, our new found
families. Things that seemed normal become
less so with hindsight. We gain clarity on what was
there all along. In this week's episode, Angelina
(01:45):
shares how her daughter's desireto take ADNA test fundamentally
altered her understanding of herfamily dynamics.
She shares what's helped her navigate this experience and how
she balances living her truth and hiding it.
Thank you for sharing your story, Angelina.
(02:06):
I'm Angelina and I'm from Cincinnati.
That's where we live now and I AM 50 years old.
That is not a trick question. I grew up in a small town in the
Midwest, and I say small town islike a farm area.
Our next door neighbors might belike 5 miles down the road.
My grandmother lived across the road, which was about a mile.
(02:29):
That was my paternal grandmother.
She had four kids and my dad washer youngest.
And that's important because notonly was the youngest, but like
there was a good age gap. And so the like oldest, I think
was like 14 years older than him.
And then the one closest to him was like 6 years older.
I lived there with two older brothers.
(02:50):
My oldest brother is five years older and then my middle brother
is 3 years older. So it was very much always a
kind of them and us. I was very close with my mom,
but I just like, we still refer to my brothers as the boys.
So people in the family will be like, oh, yeah, it's, you know,
Angelina and her mom and then the boys.
So I just felt like there was always kind of like a divide
(03:13):
there, which not really surprising later.
My brothers are. I'm very different than them.
My brothers favor my dad. I favor my mom.
When I was about 8 years old my parents got divorced.
My middle brother and I moved with my mom to like the next
county over. So maybe like 20-30 minutes
away. I just was always with my mom
(03:34):
and very much took on like her kind of defender when people
would say something about her. I felt like I was always
defending her, whereas my brothers were always with my
dad. Was there any part of you that
like wanted to stay with your dad, or was it very much like
you knew you were going with your mom?
Yeah, I just, I knew it was one with my mom.
I think originally I'd see my dad.
(03:56):
I was supposed to see him like every Wednesday and then every
other weekend. And I think we did that for a
little bit. But like the Wednesday night was
up to him to come all the way over to see us and or see me.
And I don't think that lasted long.
I mean, I didn't have a problem with my dad when I was younger,
but I was definitely a mommy's girl as well.
My dad was just very kind of quiet and I would dare say like
(04:18):
kind of passive. So I think it was easy for my
mom to be like, Oh, no, she's dizzy.
And so we just kind of in a way grew apart.
But my mom pretty much jumped right into another relationship.
And then that man kind of became, you know, my father.
They never actually got married,which was a bit of a faux pas.
Conservative small town Midwest in the 80s, that wasn't such a
(04:41):
common thing. And I think that's another part
where I just kind of started to be like my mom's defender
because I was very aware that itwasn't looked upon well.
And and I just, yeah, I felt like I was always kind of like
had to be a protector of her. So my dad eventually remarried
as well when I was in high school.
And that changed the dynamics aswell because when my stepmom
(05:04):
came into the story, like, she was very much like, OK, you
know, you know, we'll see you onChristmas Eve and we'll see you
this time. Definitely change things a
little bit more. And she was very much favored,
my brothers as well. Was there any part of you at
this point that questioned your connection to your father, who
(05:27):
you believed was your father? Yes, actually.
I mean, not to a point where I thought he wasn't my dad, but
definitely. And others would notice it too,
that I was just so different than my brothers and my dad.
And my mom would always be quickto make comments about how I
favored her side of the family. And it always referenced like my
(05:48):
grandparents who had passed whenI was very little.
So I had no point of reference, but I just knew that Oh my, my
lighter skin, you know, favors, oh, that side of the family.
Whereas, you know, my brothers favored my dad.
So there was some, some of thosefactors as well as just
personality wise. There's a lot of times I would
just ask my mom, like, how in the world can he be my dad?
(06:09):
Not thinking he wasn't, but justmore like, this is crazy.
Like I have nothing in common with him.
It was just easy, I think, for her to dismiss like, Oh, you're,
you know, you're like so and so in my family.
I even remember making jokes about like, you know, we didn't
have a milkman, but we had a Schwann man, right?
That came to the came to the farm and I was like, oh, maybe
I'm the Schwann man's daughter. But again, not ever anticipating
(06:30):
it to be anything but that. My birth certificate, dad was my
dad. So I get married to a great guy
and that right before we got married, my I'm going to call my
stepdad. He passed away unexpectedly.
And I think that was kind of like a catalyst too for my
husband and I like I realized like, Oh yeah, you're the one.
And he was very supportive. And I very much knew that when
(06:51):
we got married that I wanted to be different.
I wanted to stay married. I wanted to have a family and
they were going to be my focus. So we did.
We got married and we started our family.
I have three wonderful children.We never lived close to family,
either his or mine. That was, I think, a decision we
made on purpose. We just kind of wanted to focus
(07:13):
on our family. And I actually had a really good
relationship with my mom. I would talk to her all the
time. She got married again.
And then I'd say, like when my like, oldest daughter was in
high school, you know, like a lot of the girls or a lot of the
kids, she was taking classes andwas studying DNA and she's like,
wouldn't it be cool if we did anancestry test?
(07:34):
And so she did hers first. And my maiden name is German.
There's no way around it. It is German, German, German.
So when my daughter first got her test back or her results
back, I was like, wow, first of all, she's not as German as I
thought she would be because my husband has a lot of German in
him as well. And so that was the first
(07:55):
surprise. And then I started looking and
there was one cousin of mine on my mom's side.
I was like, OK, yeah, so there'sonly one that I named there that
I really recognized. And then I didn't recognize
anyone on my dad's side. But there was this really kind
of odd unique name. Like the first name is unique.
And it said he was a first cousin equivalent of a first
cousin of mine. So I thought that was really
(08:16):
interesting. He had a common last name,
though. So then my second daughter also
got interested and she took the test.
She actually has red hair, very pale blue eyes.
My husband has blue eyes. OK.
We always joke that she has all the recessive genes because when
she was born we're like, OK. Where did this come from?
Same result. Obviously some of the stuff on
(08:37):
there, I was like, OK, so then Itook the test.
Probably I'm going to say like, I probably took it like in 2020,
like a lot of people, when I gotthe results back, I actually
messaged this cousin because he's on my dad's side and still
no other names kind of really popped up.
And I messaged him like, hey, like, you know, at that point
you could put in like, you know where you were born.
(08:59):
And so he made reference to the same small town that I was born
in. It took him a while to message
me back. And he's like, oh, there must be
some kind of mistake because I know all my cousins, but my
grandfather was adopted. So maybe that's how we're
related. I was like, OK, but then, you
know, you start to do the mentalgymnastics.
And in my mind, I had created this narrative and I was like,
(09:21):
oh, I figured it out. So because my dad, like I
mentioned before, was so much younger, I was the youngest
cousin on that side. And so I had cousins that were
having children not long after Iwas born.
So somehow I connected to the dots that one of these cousins
that lives in the same small town probably had a baby and
(09:42):
decided to give it up for adoption.
So this is the thought process that I have.
This is how I've come up with the answer to who this guy is
because he lives in the same town.
He knows all his cousins. So I did actually call my mom
and ask her because she was always kind of like the cool
aunt, probably because she was married to the youngest brother.
So I remember it so vividly. I didn't know at the time why.
(10:04):
But like when I said, hey, mom, like, I found this.
Is there any chance that, you know, my cousins could have had
a baby? Or does this name sound familiar
to you? And I gave her the name and she,
like, had this really shrill, like, what?
I don't know, Like, that's impossible.
And I would know. And then she also said, you
can't trust those DNA tests, which was really odd because my
(10:25):
mom is very much a woman of science.
And I was like, that's just sucha weird.
And it's one of those things where you don't know why it's
important, but you kind of like,tuck it back in your mind.
And so I kind of just gave up thinking, well, I don't know how
I'm going to figure this out because I just kind of had my
story. And then a couple years later,
one of our cousins actually passed.
And so we were all gathering fora funeral.
(10:48):
We went to the funeral and then we went to like a family
farmhouse afterwards and we weresharing a meal.
All of my cousins on my dad's side were there, my brothers
were there, my aunts, my dad wasthere as well.
And again, I'm not super close with them still.
Like we're cordial, but I don't see him very often.
So he was there. And fortunately, he was tired
from a long day of travel. In the funeral, my middle
(11:10):
brother took him and they left and we were sitting at a table
and my husband was there and my oldest brother was there.
And one of my cousins started talking about how he was
researching genealogy. And all of a sudden I was like,
oh, I wonder. I saw another cousin across the
room. I'm very close with her.
(11:30):
So I went over to her and I said, hey, do you know this
person? And I gave her the name And
she's like, no, why? And I'm like, well, I connected
with him on 23andMe and she's like, oh, she's like, I
connected with our cousin so andso and so and so and so.
Like I literally pull out my phone and I start to like type
in her name. I'm like, why aren't we
(11:50):
connected? And then like, she looked at me
and I looked at her and it's like we both realized at the
same time. And she just simply said, is
there any chance that your mom had an affair with so and so?
And right then and there, I'm like, yes, like I know she did.
And then it was like memories, kind of like little glimpses of
(12:12):
things, kind of like came back to me and I remembered I knew my
mom had had an affair. And I remembered who the man
was. So this was not news to you?
The affair was not news to you? Or had you forgotten about it?
Or. I remembered it, but I also, I
think when you're so young and Ididn't have words for it and I
can't even tell you exactly how I knew, but I remembered then
(12:36):
like my mom and I talked about it only twice before.
And one time was when I was married.
And I said, mom, I remember something and can you, you know,
tell me about it? And she was just like, your dad
and I were going through rough patch.
It only happened one time. It didn't mean anything, that
kind of story. So when I was talking to my
(12:56):
cousin, we both kind of realizedthis.
She actually said to me then I always thought you looked like
and then named my now half sister because they were
friends. And she's like, I thought it was
always odd how similar you were.And I just was like in shock, of
course. And I had known my mom and had
(13:18):
an affair, but I thought that was later.
I'd never contemplated that it was, you know, because you told
me it was like a one time thing later.
How are you feeling at this point?
Well, I am obviously in shock, but also it's like one of those.
It's like tunnel vision at the same time too.
I'm literally standing with all of this family that I've just
now realized I don't share any genetics with.
(13:42):
And she just like, oh, I'm so sorry, so sorry.
She actually had some memories because she actually stayed with
US1 summer when I was little before my parents got divorced.
And apparently a gentleman wouldalways call and if my dad
answered the phone, then the person would hang up.
And this is of course before thecaller ID and all of that.
And then I was like, Oh yeah, like I remember now too.
(14:05):
Like being a little kid and someone calling.
At that point, I just go, and I whisper in my husband's ear, I'm
like, we need to leave. And he's like, OK.
And my brother had been watchingthis kind of conversation from
across the room that I was having.
And he knows me well enough to know that something was going
on. He just wouldn't let it go.
(14:25):
We were supposed to, like, spendthe night and go out to
breakfast with everyone the nextmorning.
But I was like, I've got to leave.
I've got to leave. And so he's like, what's going
on? And I was like, I can't tell you
right now. He's like, no, no, what's going
on? And just kind of like badgering
me. And I was just like, I am not
related to anyone in this room except for you.
And he's like, OK, he's like, doyou know who who you are related
(14:47):
to? And I was like, I'm not talking
to you about this right now. I could not get out of there
fast enough. So my husband and I leave.
And I don't even think I told myhusband as we got into the
truck, like what was going on? We just get in the truck and
literally I immediately call my mom and I just ask her, I'm
like, mom, is there any possibility that so and so is my
(15:08):
biological father? And she just starts crying.
She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I was like, mom, like DNA doesn't lie.
Is there any chance that so and so is my father?
And she says this will kill yourdad.
And that was her reaction. And so we talked briefly and
then we got off the phone and myhusband was just like driving
(15:30):
like shocked because he's just picking things up.
And then I just kind of tell himthe conversation that I had.
And when he starts driving and we were about 6 hours from home
because we were several states away.
And so we just start driving. And then I call my mom back and
she's settled down a little bit.I've settled down a little bit
(15:52):
and she gives me a little bit ofinformation, but not much,
basically just admitting that itcould be a possibility.
And she's like, there's no way. I had no idea.
I had no idea. And I do believe her in the
sense that like back then, right, they just, they did what
they did and then they moved on with what was the right answer.
And the right answer was my dad was my dad.
(16:14):
She was still married. And that's how it was going to
be. We drove for quite a while and
then we finally stayed at a hotel and I texted my mom just
like, hey mom, I love you. This doesn't change how I feel
about you. And that's just looking back
now. It just goes to show I was just
so I was more concerned with herand her reaction and how she was
(16:36):
handling this than I was with myown reaction.
Did you feel any anger or any anything towards your mom or was
you were you really focused on making sure she was OK?
It was a combination of being concerned for her and still just
in utter shock and also wanting answers.
(17:00):
And like, my initial thought waslike, I don't need to have a
relationship. I don't need to reach out to
them. I just, you know, I need to know
from you. And so I was just really focused
on is she OK and what does this mean?
I was also concerned about my birth certificate, Dad.
Like, was there any chance that he knew?
But yeah, so it was just, it wascrazy.
(17:24):
So what are your next steps like?
Do you start researching this new family that you find out
that you're connected to? Do you start, you know,
interviewing your mom? How do you learn more
information? So I do, I had memories of him
and I knew the names like immediately knew the names of my
half brother and half sister. They would be older than my
(17:47):
siblings like my raised with siblings but I'm still very
close in age and they like they graduated from the same high
school as my brother. I graduated from the high school
that I moved to with my mom since I knew their names.
I guess one blessing is I didn'thave to wait to figure out who
it was. Like I had memories and I knew
their names. I remember their mom's name.
(18:09):
And so of course I got like on Facebook and started looking
things up and seeing where they were.
I could figure out bio dad and his wife were still married and
they still lived in the same little town.
So that was kind of crazy. I've also immediately set up
like therapy appointment for like as soon as I could get it
because I knew I was going to need a lot of help to like kind
(18:31):
of walk myself through this. I gave my mom a couple of days
for her to kind of like come into terms with the fact that I
had figured this out. I think I even brought up like,
hey, like mom, there were times when I asked you and basically
asked her about this cousin. And that would have been the
(18:51):
time, right? To be like, oh, hey, by the way,
I mean, because I'd already knewsomewhat of the affair.
Now, granted, it's not somethingwe talked about, but maybe twice
in my entire life. And at this this point, I was
48. So this was just like two 2 1/2
years ago. I decided that my one brother
knew, but my dad, who raised me,actually lives with my middle
(19:14):
brother. And so my husband and I talked
about it. And at that point, we're like,
OK, we're not going to tell them.
It just didn't seem like, you know, he's older.
And what good would that kind ofcome out of it?
And I think I was still really concerned about how everybody
was going to take this news. This was, of course, right
before Christmas. So my mom was still planning to
(19:35):
come visit us for Christmas and stay with us.
She very much didn't want to talk about it.
She didn't want anyone to know, and so we promised her that we
wouldn't tell like my kids or anyone until after Christmas.
And then, yeah, I just started doing therapy.
There's so much grief. I was mad.
(19:57):
I was just incredibly sad about different things in my past that
could have been different. I just I couldn't understand how
someone would. Love their kid and see their
kids struggling in a relationship with like their dad
and not kind of be honest and say, hey, you know, there's a
(20:18):
good chance he's not your dad. Like anything.
That's just the fact that she just let me continue to be in
some really tough situations with my dad and my brothers when
she knew I was struggling. That's really hard for me.
It's still hard for me. Eventually I, I told just, you
know, a couple of close friends as well, because it was clear
that I was struggling. Like there's something going on
because that's something that just, it overtook my life for
(20:40):
the first bit. But I also, I'm, you know, I'm
a, I'm a Christian and I, my faith is a very big part of my
life. And so I think that was also
like I, and I still today know that I'm going to be OK.
Like in that moment I was like, all right, this is not a
surprise to God. And so I took a lot of comfort
in that knowing that, OK, well, I didn't know this, it's not a
(21:03):
surprise. And I'm going to be OK.
And so that was kind of like, just like my mantra for a while,
Like I'm going to be OK. Yeah, that, that mantra of I'm
going to be OK, I'm I'm sure is really, really helpful.
I wanted to just go back really quickly to your mom.
You believe she didn't know, youknow, and she wasn't sure.
(21:23):
But you also mentioned that whenyou were asking her about your
cousin. Like that might have been a
time. So do you think at some point
she maybe had a question mark and didn't say anything?
Or do you do you think that she was just as surprised as you
were with this information? Looking back, I at one point
when we did have a conversation the the following week, the one
(21:45):
time that she was like probably open with me for a good couple
hours at that point, she did admit that there were times that
she wondered because clearly boy, I looked was just different
than my brother's. We always would joke about like,
Oh, I'm nothing like my brother's.
So I do think that there was in the back of her mind, there were
times where she wondered and shemaybe kind of knew, hoped even
(22:08):
maybe that I wasn't because they're, you know, after the
divorce, they, you know, didn't always get along.
Obviously. I think there was some kind of
wonder there. But I think also like so many of
that generation, right? Like there was no way they were
gonna foresee DNA tests. So she just put it aside and she
like, okay, you know, this is your dad and in the state that I
(22:29):
was born in legally, who, you know, even if she did know, like
he was still going to be on my birth certificate because that
was the law. I think it still is the law that
if you're married, the husband. That's the father.
Is the father and so and I know that's a real controversial take
for some people. Like other NP ES for me, I just
look at my birth certificate as a legal document of what was
(22:52):
legal at that time. So it doesn't bother me.
Like it bothers some people and that's, you know, everybody has
a right to their own opinion. So yeah.
But yeah, she had to have there had to have been glimpses and
heard a node like, Oh yeah, there's, you know, 5050, right?
Right, Right. OK.
Wow. So you told some friends, you
(23:15):
told your therapist, you told your brother.
In the moment, your husband knows, your mom obviously knows.
What do you decide to do with the information that you have?
Do you decide to reach out to anyone or what are your next
steps? So my next steps were at first I
was like, I only want medical history.
(23:36):
That's all I care about. I'm like, I don't want to cause
an issue for anyone since they're still married.
I don't want to do that. I don't want to blow up any
families so I started to write aletter to my bio dad and since I
had some memories of him like itwasn't hard to write that
letter. I knew his birthday was coming
up in early February and so thishappened.
My discovery was early December.So I started writing my letter
(24:00):
and then like I find journaling and writing very therapeutic to
the point where a lot of times like my first reaction is like
just to write an e-mail to writeout like what I really want to
say. And then I'll edit it and soften
it. Or sometimes I don't send it at
all, but that's just very therapeutic.
So I worked on that letter and it wasn't a very long letter,
but I just really would add things and take things away.
(24:23):
And then I actually sent the letter in the forest birthday.
I tucked it into a birthday cardbecause I thought, well, I don't
know who gets his mail or, you know, what kind of mental and
physical condition he's in because he would have been, you
know, in his 80s, early 80s. So yeah, so I sent the letter
and then I just, I waited. And at some point we did after
(24:43):
Christmas, I did tell my girls too, because I was very much was
not going to keep that from thembecause it medical history.
It's, you know, it's as important to them as it is to me
to have that right. And I mean, we're very close
family and I'm sure if they could tell that something was up
with mom. So after my mom left, we just
(25:03):
sat him down and and told them, you know, told them the truth.
So my mom was furious with us because she didn't want anybody
to know her business. So that's how she looks at it.
This was her business from 50 years ago, and they had no right
to know that. That was the first time that I
had to put some real strict boundaries down with my mom and
took some time. Because it's almost like scales
fell from my eyes in the sense that I started to look back now
(25:27):
at my relationship with my mom and some other things and
realized, oh, maybe things were not the way they should have
been for a long time, which is interesting to my husband.
He's like, honey, that's how your mom has always been.
But I was just so caught up in that I was her daughter and
that, you know, I was her best friend.
(25:47):
I think we kind of had it messedup for a while in terms of who
was taking care of who. And so I hear that a lot in our
community that parentified childenmeshment kind of just, yeah,
really fuzzy boundaries that endup happening.
And I'm I'm sure it's common outside of the NPE community as
(26:08):
well, but it's just a recurring theme.
Yeah, so I sent the letter and then I just kind of waited.
And then about a month after I sent the letter, I got an e-mail
from my my brother, my new half brother, just saying basically,
hey, saw your letter and would like to talk to you.
(26:32):
And he's like, and he was very kind.
He's like, I hope you're doing OK.
And of course, they had gone on to Facebook too and checked me
out and whatnot. So we scheduled a call for a
couple days later. So he called me and I was so
nervous. I think I was nervous because
there's a, a fear of rejection for part of it.
(26:54):
You don't want to blow up their family.
But also he was like the gatewayin a way as well to the, to the
history to, you know, what did they know?
What didn't they know? So they were in shock basically,
he said it's totally out of character for their dad.
You know, I had no idea. But apparently when the letter
arrived, my sister was actually there and read it.
(27:19):
And then my bio dad read it and his wife read it.
And then they called the brotherand he read it as well.
So that was kind of weird to think that like, they were all
reading it and just kind of likestewing on it before they
reached out. So yeah, so at first it was
great. Like, you know, we started to,
you know, get to know each other.
(27:41):
They answered, you know, some questions.
And again, they just were like, totally shocked.
And they were very protective oftheir mom, which I understand.
So they didn't want to tell anyone because they still live
in that small town and what would people think?
And so apparently she had no idea and so it caused a bit of a
rift and the only thing my bio dad I guess said was like, yeah,
(28:03):
it's a possibility, but I don't know what the big deal is.
It was like 50 years ago. How do you feel about that?
I mean, it's your life, it's your existence.
Yeah, I at first I was very, I was like, oh, yeah, of course I
don't want to cause any problemsor issues, which seems to be a
pattern with me. Now I'm realizing I'm so careful
about everybody else and, you know, it's like, OK, well, give
(28:23):
us some time. And then so I talked to my half
brother 1st and then about a month later, he said, you know,
your sister, our sister would like to talk to you as well.
And so she called me. But it was also always very
secretive, like, couldn't be around the parents, like, you
know, when they were away and they have grown children, but
they didn't want them to know because they didn't want their
children to think poorly of their grandfather and their
(28:46):
grandmother. At first it was great.
Like, we were like, had a group text going and, like, getting to
know each other and sharing memories.
And some things would kind of come up, like we were sharing a
memory. And I was out of my brother's
baseball game. And my new half brother was
like, oh, yeah, and you got bit by a dog.
And I'm like, yeah, he's like, Iremember that.
(29:07):
And I was like, wow, like, I don't even remember it as much
as I remember the story. So there were some definitely
some connection points there. And my cousin who, you know,
helped me kind of piece this together, You know, she's the
one that said, yeah, like you guys look alike.
And then I started to notice it.It wasn't like the full on,
like, you know, genetic mirroring that you hear.
(29:27):
But definitely I have more features than I do with my my
brothers that I was raised with like the lighter skin.
Because to find out I am in factnot German.
So I have a lot of Irish, no German, no German.
So I have a lot of Irish and Scottish.
So that explains a few things. And then actually my husband and
(29:50):
I drove out to meet to re meet my brother and sister in early
June. We met on a day when no one else
was home and it went really, really well at the time.
And at that point I remember I like described being
contentment. I had contentment that I'd met
them and that they just needed some more time.
(30:11):
It sounded like my bio dad wasn't interested in meeting me.
I don't as a parent, I don't understand that.
And I don't understand how you can have someone, whether you
knew or not, just out there and you don't want to meet them at
least once. But so I've never I've not had
any contact with my bio dad still to this day.
(30:33):
Is that something that you really are wanting or how do you
feel about it at this point? It comes and goes.
Sometimes I I just want the opportunity one time to see him
in person to see if I do have a reaction.
I've seen pictures, but it's just not the same.
(30:55):
So in the same way, I haven't seen my birth certificate dad
either since I found out. And I want to see him again as
well because I want to see if that's something that's
different or if it's the same feeling that I've always had.
But yeah, like my, my half brother has been very kind of
like business like like yes, like if you want to meet him,
(31:17):
we'll make it happen. But apparently my sister is very
much avoids conflict. And so any time it even bring is
brought up, I feel like a littlebit of a freeze.
So our conversations have been like fewer and fewer between.
So I, I don't know, at this point, I kind of, yeah,
sometimes especially I got holidays or those trigger
(31:41):
points. I I do want to see him.
But then there's other times where I'm like, well, if he
doesn't want to meet me, then why would I want to meet him?
But then that's that's not true.I know it's just kind of a
protection of, you know, not wanting to be rejected.
Sure. What do your siblings say about
him? Like I guess it just seems like
(32:01):
it must feel very complicated that your siblings are willing
to talk to you and they met you and then their father.
Your father is not willing to tobridge that gap.
Yeah, it is very complex. And I I understand them wanting
to protect their mom and that her well-being, you know, she's
(32:22):
a victim in this too. But at the same time, like who's
looking out for me? And that does hurt.
I think that's kind of another reason why I kind of pulled back
a little bit because I got to the point like, well, you know,
you want to know all about me and my family, but you aren't
willing to share anything of yours.
(32:43):
And that just doesn't feel fair.And I know it's not going to be
fair, but there are days where I'm like, I don't ever need to
talk to them again. And then there's other days
where I'll see something on Facebook because we're friends
on Facebook, but we're not allowed to comment or share
anything or heart anything because someone else might see
(33:03):
it and wonder which that's kind of what I'm dealing with.
So, and that's where it feels very like voyeuristic.
Yeah. If it was up to you, would you
be open about it? Because I know your mom also
doesn't really want her businessout there.
So where do you stand? Would would you, Angelina, talk
(33:26):
about this broadly if you could?Or what are your feelings?
Yes, about a year from when I originally sent the letter.
I sent a text to to them just saying, hey, I'm not going to
send a letter this year. I'm not going to send a birthday
card. I'm a well aware of the date and
I'm well aware of the truth. And while I can tell you right
now I'm not going to do anything, I can't promise that's
(33:48):
always going to be the case because it's my story to tell.
And when I'm ready to tell it, I'm going to tell it.
I think they took it maybe as a threat.
I didn't mean it as a threat, but because I did notice, like,
they definitely kind of pulled back.
And we're all busy. I still have, you know, one kid
that's not driving at home. So I'm, you know, very involved
(34:08):
and they have things going on intheir lives.
But I just feel like, yeah, likeI just, I feel cheated really
out of what could have been, what should have been, what
could be. Yeah, that's such a good way of
saying it. If you could have a conversation
with your biological father, what would you want to say to
(34:30):
him? What questions do you have?
Kind of what I wrote in my letter was like, did you know?
Did you suspect anything? I don't understand how they
couldn't suspect something like,you know, but yeah, did you
know, did you think about me? Did you ever want to reach out?
And now that I understand not, Imean wanting to upset your wife
(34:55):
and current family, Would you like to hear about your
grandkids? Like I have these three amazing
children. I can't imagine someone not
wanting to know them. So yes, I'd like to know that
and I'd like to know what you know, What did you, how did you
look my dad in in the eye 'causeyou know, we all live near each
(35:17):
other. My dad and my bio dad, they
continued to be in the same community for decades.
Like I understand people make mistakes or things happen, but a
simple I'm sorry would go so far.
And that's another thing. My mom has never apologized for
(35:37):
for anything early, but you know, she just when I bring it
up, she just says I'm not sorry because I have you.
I'm not sorry because I still have you.
So her lack of accountability isa real trigger for me.
Yeah, that makes sense. Do you still have questions for
(35:57):
her? Yes, but I've come to terms with
the fact that I'll never have the answers.
And there's going to be a lack of trust there, probably.
We've kind of ebb and flow through our relationship the
last two years because I don't think she was ever she.
Once the gates opened and I started to say my piece, I felt
like I couldn't say enough. And so I think that was a shock
(36:22):
to her that I was finally, you know, hey, what about this?
What about that? And she didn't wanna to deal
with that. So and to this day, my so, my
one brother that was raised with, he knows and he's told a
few people. And but my brother who my dad
(36:44):
lives with, my birth certificate, dad lives with,
does not know because that's a very complex situation.
Like because I don't want to askhim to keep that from my dad.
And I'm at the point where I'm ready to tell him.
But others are like, no, becausethat would be too hard for him
to keep or, you know, he's just going to bother your mom with
it. I didn't even tell anyone I was
(37:05):
doing this podcast because I don't want to hear anyone else's
opinions. Like I want to be able to share
what I need to share for myself,for my kids to eventually listen
to, and for others. What advice do you have?
Or a parent who's keeping adna surprise from their child.
My advice is it's going to catchup with you, so go ahead and be
(37:28):
honest and tell them. Especially like if your kids are
like, I wasn't, although they didn't have any suspicions, they
were still asking questions. Like I look back and there were
a few very key points where my mom should have shared, you
know, and said, hey, I don't know for sure, but there's a
possibility. Or hey, you're feeling this way,
(37:50):
probably because you know, theremight be a chance, and then we
could have figured it out together.
Yeah, that's such a important call out, is that especially
when you're an adult, there's anopportunity to work through it
together and heal together, and it's important.
(38:11):
Yeah. And what advice do you have for
someone like yourself who has uncovered ADNA surprise?
So my first, and I think this isa common response, is to take a
minute for yourself, breathe, and then also like feel the
(38:32):
feelings. Like I very much gave myself
permission to feel the feelings and thanks to my therapist help
name the feelings. So if I was mad, I said it, I'm
mad. If I was sad or, you know, I'm
feeling this way, I've got tears.
I'm sad because of this. And I would allow myself to kind
(38:53):
of sit in those feelings, but I also wouldn't stay there.
So I'd be like, all right, todayI'm going to, you know, usually
it was like daily and like, I'm going to let myself be mad and
rage because they're still goingto be there.
So if you don't acknowledge them, they're going to creep up
on and and get you. So I think that's part of it is
just take your time, feel the feelings, give yourself
(39:15):
permission to change your mind. So like in for me, in the
beginning, I was like, I don't want to, you know, I'm not going
to reach out. I don't want to do this.
But that's, I think was a reaction to how I was worried
about it was how it's going to work out for my mom or what it
was going to mean for other people.
So I, I needed to give myself permission to be like, you know
what, it's OK that I'm going to change my mind because this is a
(39:38):
really, there's no guidebook forthis.
And so we're going to figure it out as we go.
And if that means later I'm going to do something
differently, then that's what I'm going to do.
So I think that's important. Give yourself permission to
change your mind and how you deal with this.
And then if I could say one more, like figure out what's
true to you. So for me, like I always said,
like I know I'm going to be OK. I know I'm going to be OK.
(40:01):
I know I'm loved and I know I'm going to be OK.
And so the rest of it sometimes was just like chatter.
Sometimes it was really loud andother times it died down.
But I would just be like, OK. Nope, I'm going to be OK.
This really hurts, but I'm goingto be OK.
So that's what I'd recommend is that just kind of come figure
out what the what's true to you and for you and and just focus
(40:24):
on that. That was all such good advice,
every every bit of it. I especially love the the naming
your feelings because there's somany feelings that we feel when
we go through this and being able to really identify what
they are and then move through them.
Like you said, not staying stuckthere because, you know,
(40:47):
sometimes you need to be angry for a while, but it doesn't feel
good to be angry for long, right?
And so, and sometimes it comes back and sometimes it leaves.
And just to, to let yourself feel all of the feelings.
Angelina, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing
your story. I think it's so important to
highlight these different kinds of journeys and experiences that
(41:08):
people have. And yours has a lot of nuance
and complexity with who knows and who doesn't know.
And there's still some level of uncertainty about what the
future looks like for you, but Iwish you nothing but the best as
you continue to figure it out and work through it.
Thank you so much. And I know a lot of guests say,
say this, but really your podcast, I mean, it is so
(41:31):
important the work because this is such a isolating feeling.
And my husband loves me dearly and he wants to be supportive,
and he has been, but there's no way that he can understand or
feel what I'm feeling. But just listening to the
podcast and knowing that there'sa community out there, it is so
incredibly important. So I really appreciate you
(41:53):
taking your time to have me on and just continue to do what you
do. Thank you so much.
Thanks again to Angelina for sharing her story.
If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please
submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early
add free access to episodes, join me over on
patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.
(42:18):
Until next time, This episode ofDNA Surprises was hosted,
produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt.
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording
Studios.
I do believe her in the sense that like back then, right, they
just, they did what they did andthen they moved on with what was
the right answer. And the right answer was my dad
was my dad. She was still married.
And that's how it was gonna be. We drove for quite a while, and
then we finally stayed at a hotel and I texted my mom just
(00:21):
like, hey, mom, I love you. This doesn't change how I feel
about you, and that's just looking back now.
That just goes to show I was just so I was more concerned
with her and her reaction and how she was handling this than I
was with my own reaction. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a
(00:41):
podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA
discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis, our salt.
In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out
that I'm an N P/E, a person who has experienced a non paternal
event. In other words, my biological
(01:02):
father isn't who I thought he was.
Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees and
donor conceived people and theirfamilies.
Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin
with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises.
(01:23):
DNA surprises, by their very nature, change the lens through
which we view family, our raisedfamilies, our new found
families. Things that seemed normal become
less so with hindsight. We gain clarity on what was
there all along. In this week's episode, Angelina
(01:45):
shares how her daughter's desireto take ADNA test fundamentally
altered her understanding of herfamily dynamics.
She shares what's helped her navigate this experience and how
she balances living her truth and hiding it.
Thank you for sharing your story, Angelina.
(02:06):
I'm Angelina and I'm from Cincinnati.
That's where we live now and I AM 50 years old.
That is not a trick question. I grew up in a small town in the
Midwest, and I say small town islike a farm area.
Our next door neighbors might belike 5 miles down the road.
My grandmother lived across the road, which was about a mile.
(02:29):
That was my paternal grandmother.
She had four kids and my dad washer youngest.
And that's important because notonly was the youngest, but like
there was a good age gap. And so the like oldest, I think
was like 14 years older than him.
And then the one closest to him was like 6 years older.
I lived there with two older brothers.
(02:50):
My oldest brother is five years older and then my middle brother
is 3 years older. So it was very much always a
kind of them and us. I was very close with my mom,
but I just like, we still refer to my brothers as the boys.
So people in the family will be like, oh, yeah, it's, you know,
Angelina and her mom and then the boys.
So I just felt like there was always kind of like a divide
(03:13):
there, which not really surprising later.
My brothers are. I'm very different than them.
My brothers favor my dad. I favor my mom.
When I was about 8 years old my parents got divorced.
My middle brother and I moved with my mom to like the next
county over. So maybe like 20-30 minutes
away. I just was always with my mom
(03:34):
and very much took on like her kind of defender when people
would say something about her. I felt like I was always
defending her, whereas my brothers were always with my
dad. Was there any part of you that
like wanted to stay with your dad, or was it very much like
you knew you were going with your mom?
Yeah, I just, I knew it was one with my mom.
I think originally I'd see my dad.
(03:56):
I was supposed to see him like every Wednesday and then every
other weekend. And I think we did that for a
little bit. But like the Wednesday night was
up to him to come all the way over to see us and or see me.
And I don't think that lasted long.
I mean, I didn't have a problem with my dad when I was younger,
but I was definitely a mommy's girl as well.
My dad was just very kind of quiet and I would dare say like
(04:18):
kind of passive. So I think it was easy for my
mom to be like, Oh, no, she's dizzy.
And so we just kind of in a way grew apart.
But my mom pretty much jumped right into another relationship.
And then that man kind of became, you know, my father.
They never actually got married,which was a bit of a faux pas.
Conservative small town Midwest in the 80s, that wasn't such a
(04:41):
common thing. And I think that's another part
where I just kind of started to be like my mom's defender
because I was very aware that itwasn't looked upon well.
And and I just, yeah, I felt like I was always kind of like
had to be a protector of her. So my dad eventually remarried
as well when I was in high school.
And that changed the dynamics aswell because when my stepmom
(05:04):
came into the story, like, she was very much like, OK, you
know, you know, we'll see you onChristmas Eve and we'll see you
this time. Definitely change things a
little bit more. And she was very much favored,
my brothers as well. Was there any part of you at
this point that questioned your connection to your father, who
(05:27):
you believed was your father? Yes, actually.
I mean, not to a point where I thought he wasn't my dad, but
definitely. And others would notice it too,
that I was just so different than my brothers and my dad.
And my mom would always be quickto make comments about how I
favored her side of the family. And it always referenced like my
(05:48):
grandparents who had passed whenI was very little.
So I had no point of reference, but I just knew that Oh my, my
lighter skin, you know, favors, oh, that side of the family.
Whereas, you know, my brothers favored my dad.
So there was some, some of thosefactors as well as just
personality wise. There's a lot of times I would
just ask my mom, like, how in the world can he be my dad?
(06:09):
Not thinking he wasn't, but justmore like, this is crazy.
Like I have nothing in common with him.
It was just easy, I think, for her to dismiss like, Oh, you're,
you know, you're like so and so in my family.
I even remember making jokes about like, you know, we didn't
have a milkman, but we had a Schwann man, right?
That came to the came to the farm and I was like, oh, maybe
I'm the Schwann man's daughter. But again, not ever anticipating
(06:30):
it to be anything but that. My birth certificate, dad was my
dad. So I get married to a great guy
and that right before we got married, my I'm going to call my
stepdad. He passed away unexpectedly.
And I think that was kind of like a catalyst too for my
husband and I like I realized like, Oh yeah, you're the one.
And he was very supportive. And I very much knew that when
(06:51):
we got married that I wanted to be different.
I wanted to stay married. I wanted to have a family and
they were going to be my focus. So we did.
We got married and we started our family.
I have three wonderful children.We never lived close to family,
either his or mine. That was, I think, a decision we
made on purpose. We just kind of wanted to focus
(07:13):
on our family. And I actually had a really good
relationship with my mom. I would talk to her all the
time. She got married again.
And then I'd say, like when my like, oldest daughter was in
high school, you know, like a lot of the girls or a lot of the
kids, she was taking classes andwas studying DNA and she's like,
wouldn't it be cool if we did anancestry test?
(07:34):
And so she did hers first. And my maiden name is German.
There's no way around it. It is German, German, German.
So when my daughter first got her test back or her results
back, I was like, wow, first of all, she's not as German as I
thought she would be because my husband has a lot of German in
him as well. And so that was the first
(07:55):
surprise. And then I started looking and
there was one cousin of mine on my mom's side.
I was like, OK, yeah, so there'sonly one that I named there that
I really recognized. And then I didn't recognize
anyone on my dad's side. But there was this really kind
of odd unique name. Like the first name is unique.
And it said he was a first cousin equivalent of a first
cousin of mine. So I thought that was really
(08:16):
interesting. He had a common last name,
though. So then my second daughter also
got interested and she took the test.
She actually has red hair, very pale blue eyes.
My husband has blue eyes. OK.
We always joke that she has all the recessive genes because when
she was born we're like, OK. Where did this come from?
Same result. Obviously some of the stuff on
(08:37):
there, I was like, OK, so then Itook the test.
Probably I'm going to say like, I probably took it like in 2020,
like a lot of people, when I gotthe results back, I actually
messaged this cousin because he's on my dad's side and still
no other names kind of really popped up.
And I messaged him like, hey, like, you know, at that point
you could put in like, you know where you were born.
(08:59):
And so he made reference to the same small town that I was born
in. It took him a while to message
me back. And he's like, oh, there must be
some kind of mistake because I know all my cousins, but my
grandfather was adopted. So maybe that's how we're
related. I was like, OK, but then, you
know, you start to do the mentalgymnastics.
And in my mind, I had created this narrative and I was like,
(09:21):
oh, I figured it out. So because my dad, like I
mentioned before, was so much younger, I was the youngest
cousin on that side. And so I had cousins that were
having children not long after Iwas born.
So somehow I connected to the dots that one of these cousins
that lives in the same small town probably had a baby and
(09:42):
decided to give it up for adoption.
So this is the thought process that I have.
This is how I've come up with the answer to who this guy is
because he lives in the same town.
He knows all his cousins. So I did actually call my mom
and ask her because she was always kind of like the cool
aunt, probably because she was married to the youngest brother.
So I remember it so vividly. I didn't know at the time why.
(10:04):
But like when I said, hey, mom, like, I found this.
Is there any chance that, you know, my cousins could have had
a baby? Or does this name sound familiar
to you? And I gave her the name and she,
like, had this really shrill, like, what?
I don't know, Like, that's impossible.
And I would know. And then she also said, you
can't trust those DNA tests, which was really odd because my
(10:25):
mom is very much a woman of science.
And I was like, that's just sucha weird.
And it's one of those things where you don't know why it's
important, but you kind of like,tuck it back in your mind.
And so I kind of just gave up thinking, well, I don't know how
I'm going to figure this out because I just kind of had my
story. And then a couple years later,
one of our cousins actually passed.
And so we were all gathering fora funeral.
(10:48):
We went to the funeral and then we went to like a family
farmhouse afterwards and we weresharing a meal.
All of my cousins on my dad's side were there, my brothers
were there, my aunts, my dad wasthere as well.
And again, I'm not super close with them still.
Like we're cordial, but I don't see him very often.
So he was there. And fortunately, he was tired
from a long day of travel. In the funeral, my middle
(11:10):
brother took him and they left and we were sitting at a table
and my husband was there and my oldest brother was there.
And one of my cousins started talking about how he was
researching genealogy. And all of a sudden I was like,
oh, I wonder. I saw another cousin across the
room. I'm very close with her.
(11:30):
So I went over to her and I said, hey, do you know this
person? And I gave her the name And
she's like, no, why? And I'm like, well, I connected
with him on 23andMe and she's like, oh, she's like, I
connected with our cousin so andso and so and so and so.
Like I literally pull out my phone and I start to like type
in her name. I'm like, why aren't we
(11:50):
connected? And then like, she looked at me
and I looked at her and it's like we both realized at the
same time. And she just simply said, is
there any chance that your mom had an affair with so and so?
And right then and there, I'm like, yes, like I know she did.
And then it was like memories, kind of like little glimpses of
(12:12):
things, kind of like came back to me and I remembered I knew my
mom had had an affair. And I remembered who the man
was. So this was not news to you?
The affair was not news to you? Or had you forgotten about it?
Or. I remembered it, but I also, I
think when you're so young and Ididn't have words for it and I
can't even tell you exactly how I knew, but I remembered then
(12:36):
like my mom and I talked about it only twice before.
And one time was when I was married.
And I said, mom, I remember something and can you, you know,
tell me about it? And she was just like, your dad
and I were going through rough patch.
It only happened one time. It didn't mean anything, that
kind of story. So when I was talking to my
(12:56):
cousin, we both kind of realizedthis.
She actually said to me then I always thought you looked like
and then named my now half sister because they were
friends. And she's like, I thought it was
always odd how similar you were.And I just was like in shock, of
course. And I had known my mom and had
(13:18):
an affair, but I thought that was later.
I'd never contemplated that it was, you know, because you told
me it was like a one time thing later.
How are you feeling at this point?
Well, I am obviously in shock, but also it's like one of those.
It's like tunnel vision at the same time too.
I'm literally standing with all of this family that I've just
now realized I don't share any genetics with.
(13:42):
And she just like, oh, I'm so sorry, so sorry.
She actually had some memories because she actually stayed with
US1 summer when I was little before my parents got divorced.
And apparently a gentleman wouldalways call and if my dad
answered the phone, then the person would hang up.
And this is of course before thecaller ID and all of that.
And then I was like, Oh yeah, like I remember now too.
(14:05):
Like being a little kid and someone calling.
At that point, I just go, and I whisper in my husband's ear, I'm
like, we need to leave. And he's like, OK.
And my brother had been watchingthis kind of conversation from
across the room that I was having.
And he knows me well enough to know that something was going
on. He just wouldn't let it go.
(14:25):
We were supposed to, like, spendthe night and go out to
breakfast with everyone the nextmorning.
But I was like, I've got to leave.
I've got to leave. And so he's like, what's going
on? And I was like, I can't tell you
right now. He's like, no, no, what's going
on? And just kind of like badgering
me. And I was just like, I am not
related to anyone in this room except for you.
And he's like, OK, he's like, doyou know who who you are related
(14:47):
to? And I was like, I'm not talking
to you about this right now. I could not get out of there
fast enough. So my husband and I leave.
And I don't even think I told myhusband as we got into the
truck, like what was going on? We just get in the truck and
literally I immediately call my mom and I just ask her, I'm
like, mom, is there any possibility that so and so is my
(15:08):
biological father? And she just starts crying.
She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I was like, mom, like DNA doesn't lie.
Is there any chance that so and so is my father?
And she says this will kill yourdad.
And that was her reaction. And so we talked briefly and
then we got off the phone and myhusband was just like driving
(15:30):
like shocked because he's just picking things up.
And then I just kind of tell himthe conversation that I had.
And when he starts driving and we were about 6 hours from home
because we were several states away.
And so we just start driving. And then I call my mom back and
she's settled down a little bit.I've settled down a little bit
(15:52):
and she gives me a little bit ofinformation, but not much,
basically just admitting that itcould be a possibility.
And she's like, there's no way. I had no idea.
I had no idea. And I do believe her in the
sense that like back then, right, they just, they did what
they did and then they moved on with what was the right answer.
And the right answer was my dad was my dad.
(16:14):
She was still married. And that's how it was going to
be. We drove for quite a while and
then we finally stayed at a hotel and I texted my mom just
like, hey mom, I love you. This doesn't change how I feel
about you. And that's just looking back
now. It just goes to show I was just
so I was more concerned with herand her reaction and how she was
(16:36):
handling this than I was with myown reaction.
Did you feel any anger or any anything towards your mom or was
you were you really focused on making sure she was OK?
It was a combination of being concerned for her and still just
in utter shock and also wanting answers.
(17:00):
And like, my initial thought waslike, I don't need to have a
relationship. I don't need to reach out to
them. I just, you know, I need to know
from you. And so I was just really focused
on is she OK and what does this mean?
I was also concerned about my birth certificate, Dad.
Like, was there any chance that he knew?
But yeah, so it was just, it wascrazy.
(17:24):
So what are your next steps like?
Do you start researching this new family that you find out
that you're connected to? Do you start, you know,
interviewing your mom? How do you learn more
information? So I do, I had memories of him
and I knew the names like immediately knew the names of my
half brother and half sister. They would be older than my
(17:47):
siblings like my raised with siblings but I'm still very
close in age and they like they graduated from the same high
school as my brother. I graduated from the high school
that I moved to with my mom since I knew their names.
I guess one blessing is I didn'thave to wait to figure out who
it was. Like I had memories and I knew
their names. I remember their mom's name.
(18:09):
And so of course I got like on Facebook and started looking
things up and seeing where they were.
I could figure out bio dad and his wife were still married and
they still lived in the same little town.
So that was kind of crazy. I've also immediately set up
like therapy appointment for like as soon as I could get it
because I knew I was going to need a lot of help to like kind
(18:31):
of walk myself through this. I gave my mom a couple of days
for her to kind of like come into terms with the fact that I
had figured this out. I think I even brought up like,
hey, like mom, there were times when I asked you and basically
asked her about this cousin. And that would have been the
(18:51):
time, right? To be like, oh, hey, by the way,
I mean, because I'd already knewsomewhat of the affair.
Now, granted, it's not somethingwe talked about, but maybe twice
in my entire life. And at this this point, I was
48. So this was just like two 2 1/2
years ago. I decided that my one brother
knew, but my dad, who raised me,actually lives with my middle
(19:14):
brother. And so my husband and I talked
about it. And at that point, we're like,
OK, we're not going to tell them.
It just didn't seem like, you know, he's older.
And what good would that kind ofcome out of it?
And I think I was still really concerned about how everybody
was going to take this news. This was, of course, right
before Christmas. So my mom was still planning to
(19:35):
come visit us for Christmas and stay with us.
She very much didn't want to talk about it.
She didn't want anyone to know, and so we promised her that we
wouldn't tell like my kids or anyone until after Christmas.
And then, yeah, I just started doing therapy.
There's so much grief. I was mad.
(19:57):
I was just incredibly sad about different things in my past that
could have been different. I just I couldn't understand how
someone would. Love their kid and see their
kids struggling in a relationship with like their dad
and not kind of be honest and say, hey, you know, there's a
(20:18):
good chance he's not your dad. Like anything.
That's just the fact that she just let me continue to be in
some really tough situations with my dad and my brothers when
she knew I was struggling. That's really hard for me.
It's still hard for me. Eventually I, I told just, you
know, a couple of close friends as well, because it was clear
that I was struggling. Like there's something going on
because that's something that just, it overtook my life for
(20:40):
the first bit. But I also, I'm, you know, I'm
a, I'm a Christian and I, my faith is a very big part of my
life. And so I think that was also
like I, and I still today know that I'm going to be OK.
Like in that moment I was like, all right, this is not a
surprise to God. And so I took a lot of comfort
in that knowing that, OK, well, I didn't know this, it's not a
(21:03):
surprise. And I'm going to be OK.
And so that was kind of like, just like my mantra for a while,
Like I'm going to be OK. Yeah, that, that mantra of I'm
going to be OK, I'm I'm sure is really, really helpful.
I wanted to just go back really quickly to your mom.
You believe she didn't know, youknow, and she wasn't sure.
(21:23):
But you also mentioned that whenyou were asking her about your
cousin. Like that might have been a
time. So do you think at some point
she maybe had a question mark and didn't say anything?
Or do you do you think that she was just as surprised as you
were with this information? Looking back, I at one point
when we did have a conversation the the following week, the one
(21:45):
time that she was like probably open with me for a good couple
hours at that point, she did admit that there were times that
she wondered because clearly boy, I looked was just different
than my brother's. We always would joke about like,
Oh, I'm nothing like my brother's.
So I do think that there was in the back of her mind, there were
times where she wondered and shemaybe kind of knew, hoped even
(22:08):
maybe that I wasn't because they're, you know, after the
divorce, they, you know, didn't always get along.
Obviously. I think there was some kind of
wonder there. But I think also like so many of
that generation, right? Like there was no way they were
gonna foresee DNA tests. So she just put it aside and she
like, okay, you know, this is your dad and in the state that I
(22:29):
was born in legally, who, you know, even if she did know, like
he was still going to be on my birth certificate because that
was the law. I think it still is the law that
if you're married, the husband. That's the father.
Is the father and so and I know that's a real controversial take
for some people. Like other NP ES for me, I just
look at my birth certificate as a legal document of what was
(22:52):
legal at that time. So it doesn't bother me.
Like it bothers some people and that's, you know, everybody has
a right to their own opinion. So yeah.
But yeah, she had to have there had to have been glimpses and
heard a node like, Oh yeah, there's, you know, 5050, right?
Right, Right. OK.
Wow. So you told some friends, you
(23:15):
told your therapist, you told your brother.
In the moment, your husband knows, your mom obviously knows.
What do you decide to do with the information that you have?
Do you decide to reach out to anyone or what are your next
steps? So my next steps were at first I
was like, I only want medical history.
(23:36):
That's all I care about. I'm like, I don't want to cause
an issue for anyone since they're still married.
I don't want to do that. I don't want to blow up any
families so I started to write aletter to my bio dad and since I
had some memories of him like itwasn't hard to write that
letter. I knew his birthday was coming
up in early February and so thishappened.
My discovery was early December.So I started writing my letter
(24:00):
and then like I find journaling and writing very therapeutic to
the point where a lot of times like my first reaction is like
just to write an e-mail to writeout like what I really want to
say. And then I'll edit it and soften
it. Or sometimes I don't send it at
all, but that's just very therapeutic.
So I worked on that letter and it wasn't a very long letter,
but I just really would add things and take things away.
(24:23):
And then I actually sent the letter in the forest birthday.
I tucked it into a birthday cardbecause I thought, well, I don't
know who gets his mail or, you know, what kind of mental and
physical condition he's in because he would have been, you
know, in his 80s, early 80s. So yeah, so I sent the letter
and then I just, I waited. And at some point we did after
(24:43):
Christmas, I did tell my girls too, because I was very much was
not going to keep that from thembecause it medical history.
It's, you know, it's as important to them as it is to me
to have that right. And I mean, we're very close
family and I'm sure if they could tell that something was up
with mom. So after my mom left, we just
(25:03):
sat him down and and told them, you know, told them the truth.
So my mom was furious with us because she didn't want anybody
to know her business. So that's how she looks at it.
This was her business from 50 years ago, and they had no right
to know that. That was the first time that I
had to put some real strict boundaries down with my mom and
took some time. Because it's almost like scales
fell from my eyes in the sense that I started to look back now
(25:27):
at my relationship with my mom and some other things and
realized, oh, maybe things were not the way they should have
been for a long time, which is interesting to my husband.
He's like, honey, that's how your mom has always been.
But I was just so caught up in that I was her daughter and
that, you know, I was her best friend.
(25:47):
I think we kind of had it messedup for a while in terms of who
was taking care of who. And so I hear that a lot in our
community that parentified childenmeshment kind of just, yeah,
really fuzzy boundaries that endup happening.
And I'm I'm sure it's common outside of the NPE community as
(26:08):
well, but it's just a recurring theme.
Yeah, so I sent the letter and then I just kind of waited.
And then about a month after I sent the letter, I got an e-mail
from my my brother, my new half brother, just saying basically,
hey, saw your letter and would like to talk to you.
(26:32):
And he's like, and he was very kind.
He's like, I hope you're doing OK.
And of course, they had gone on to Facebook too and checked me
out and whatnot. So we scheduled a call for a
couple days later. So he called me and I was so
nervous. I think I was nervous because
there's a, a fear of rejection for part of it.
(26:54):
You don't want to blow up their family.
But also he was like the gatewayin a way as well to the, to the
history to, you know, what did they know?
What didn't they know? So they were in shock basically,
he said it's totally out of character for their dad.
You know, I had no idea. But apparently when the letter
arrived, my sister was actually there and read it.
(27:19):
And then my bio dad read it and his wife read it.
And then they called the brotherand he read it as well.
So that was kind of weird to think that like, they were all
reading it and just kind of likestewing on it before they
reached out. So yeah, so at first it was
great. Like, you know, we started to,
you know, get to know each other.
(27:41):
They answered, you know, some questions.
And again, they just were like, totally shocked.
And they were very protective oftheir mom, which I understand.
So they didn't want to tell anyone because they still live
in that small town and what would people think?
And so apparently she had no idea and so it caused a bit of a
rift and the only thing my bio dad I guess said was like, yeah,
(28:03):
it's a possibility, but I don't know what the big deal is.
It was like 50 years ago. How do you feel about that?
I mean, it's your life, it's your existence.
Yeah, I at first I was very, I was like, oh, yeah, of course I
don't want to cause any problemsor issues, which seems to be a
pattern with me. Now I'm realizing I'm so careful
about everybody else and, you know, it's like, OK, well, give
(28:23):
us some time. And then so I talked to my half
brother 1st and then about a month later, he said, you know,
your sister, our sister would like to talk to you as well.
And so she called me. But it was also always very
secretive, like, couldn't be around the parents, like, you
know, when they were away and they have grown children, but
they didn't want them to know because they didn't want their
children to think poorly of their grandfather and their
(28:46):
grandmother. At first it was great.
Like, we were like, had a group text going and, like, getting to
know each other and sharing memories.
And some things would kind of come up, like we were sharing a
memory. And I was out of my brother's
baseball game. And my new half brother was
like, oh, yeah, and you got bit by a dog.
And I'm like, yeah, he's like, Iremember that.
(29:07):
And I was like, wow, like, I don't even remember it as much
as I remember the story. So there were some definitely
some connection points there. And my cousin who, you know,
helped me kind of piece this together, You know, she's the
one that said, yeah, like you guys look alike.
And then I started to notice it.It wasn't like the full on,
like, you know, genetic mirroring that you hear.
(29:27):
But definitely I have more features than I do with my my
brothers that I was raised with like the lighter skin.
Because to find out I am in factnot German.
So I have a lot of Irish, no German, no German.
So I have a lot of Irish and Scottish.
So that explains a few things. And then actually my husband and
(29:50):
I drove out to meet to re meet my brother and sister in early
June. We met on a day when no one else
was home and it went really, really well at the time.
And at that point I remember I like described being
contentment. I had contentment that I'd met
them and that they just needed some more time.
(30:11):
It sounded like my bio dad wasn't interested in meeting me.
I don't as a parent, I don't understand that.
And I don't understand how you can have someone, whether you
knew or not, just out there and you don't want to meet them at
least once. But so I've never I've not had
any contact with my bio dad still to this day.
(30:33):
Is that something that you really are wanting or how do you
feel about it at this point? It comes and goes.
Sometimes I I just want the opportunity one time to see him
in person to see if I do have a reaction.
I've seen pictures, but it's just not the same.
(30:55):
So in the same way, I haven't seen my birth certificate dad
either since I found out. And I want to see him again as
well because I want to see if that's something that's
different or if it's the same feeling that I've always had.
But yeah, like my, my half brother has been very kind of
like business like like yes, like if you want to meet him,
(31:17):
we'll make it happen. But apparently my sister is very
much avoids conflict. And so any time it even bring is
brought up, I feel like a littlebit of a freeze.
So our conversations have been like fewer and fewer between.
So I, I don't know, at this point, I kind of, yeah,
sometimes especially I got holidays or those trigger
(31:41):
points. I I do want to see him.
But then there's other times where I'm like, well, if he
doesn't want to meet me, then why would I want to meet him?
But then that's that's not true.I know it's just kind of a
protection of, you know, not wanting to be rejected.
Sure. What do your siblings say about
him? Like I guess it just seems like
(32:01):
it must feel very complicated that your siblings are willing
to talk to you and they met you and then their father.
Your father is not willing to tobridge that gap.
Yeah, it is very complex. And I I understand them wanting
to protect their mom and that her well-being, you know, she's
(32:22):
a victim in this too. But at the same time, like who's
looking out for me? And that does hurt.
I think that's kind of another reason why I kind of pulled back
a little bit because I got to the point like, well, you know,
you want to know all about me and my family, but you aren't
willing to share anything of yours.
(32:43):
And that just doesn't feel fair.And I know it's not going to be
fair, but there are days where I'm like, I don't ever need to
talk to them again. And then there's other days
where I'll see something on Facebook because we're friends
on Facebook, but we're not allowed to comment or share
anything or heart anything because someone else might see
(33:03):
it and wonder which that's kind of what I'm dealing with.
So, and that's where it feels very like voyeuristic.
Yeah. If it was up to you, would you
be open about it? Because I know your mom also
doesn't really want her businessout there.
So where do you stand? Would would you, Angelina, talk
(33:26):
about this broadly if you could?Or what are your feelings?
Yes, about a year from when I originally sent the letter.
I sent a text to to them just saying, hey, I'm not going to
send a letter this year. I'm not going to send a birthday
card. I'm a well aware of the date and
I'm well aware of the truth. And while I can tell you right
now I'm not going to do anything, I can't promise that's
(33:48):
always going to be the case because it's my story to tell.
And when I'm ready to tell it, I'm going to tell it.
I think they took it maybe as a threat.
I didn't mean it as a threat, but because I did notice, like,
they definitely kind of pulled back.
And we're all busy. I still have, you know, one kid
that's not driving at home. So I'm, you know, very involved
(34:08):
and they have things going on intheir lives.
But I just feel like, yeah, likeI just, I feel cheated really
out of what could have been, what should have been, what
could be. Yeah, that's such a good way of
saying it. If you could have a conversation
with your biological father, what would you want to say to
(34:30):
him? What questions do you have?
Kind of what I wrote in my letter was like, did you know?
Did you suspect anything? I don't understand how they
couldn't suspect something like,you know, but yeah, did you
know, did you think about me? Did you ever want to reach out?
And now that I understand not, Imean wanting to upset your wife
(34:55):
and current family, Would you like to hear about your
grandkids? Like I have these three amazing
children. I can't imagine someone not
wanting to know them. So yes, I'd like to know that
and I'd like to know what you know, What did you, how did you
look my dad in in the eye 'causeyou know, we all live near each
(35:17):
other. My dad and my bio dad, they
continued to be in the same community for decades.
Like I understand people make mistakes or things happen, but a
simple I'm sorry would go so far.
And that's another thing. My mom has never apologized for
(35:37):
for anything early, but you know, she just when I bring it
up, she just says I'm not sorry because I have you.
I'm not sorry because I still have you.
So her lack of accountability isa real trigger for me.
Yeah, that makes sense. Do you still have questions for
(35:57):
her? Yes, but I've come to terms with
the fact that I'll never have the answers.
And there's going to be a lack of trust there, probably.
We've kind of ebb and flow through our relationship the
last two years because I don't think she was ever she.
Once the gates opened and I started to say my piece, I felt
like I couldn't say enough. And so I think that was a shock
(36:22):
to her that I was finally, you know, hey, what about this?
What about that? And she didn't wanna to deal
with that. So and to this day, my so, my
one brother that was raised with, he knows and he's told a
few people. And but my brother who my dad
(36:44):
lives with, my birth certificate, dad lives with,
does not know because that's a very complex situation.
Like because I don't want to askhim to keep that from my dad.
And I'm at the point where I'm ready to tell him.
But others are like, no, becausethat would be too hard for him
to keep or, you know, he's just going to bother your mom with
it. I didn't even tell anyone I was
(37:05):
doing this podcast because I don't want to hear anyone else's
opinions. Like I want to be able to share
what I need to share for myself,for my kids to eventually listen
to, and for others. What advice do you have?
Or a parent who's keeping adna surprise from their child.
My advice is it's going to catchup with you, so go ahead and be
(37:28):
honest and tell them. Especially like if your kids are
like, I wasn't, although they didn't have any suspicions, they
were still asking questions. Like I look back and there were
a few very key points where my mom should have shared, you
know, and said, hey, I don't know for sure, but there's a
possibility. Or hey, you're feeling this way,
(37:50):
probably because you know, theremight be a chance, and then we
could have figured it out together.
Yeah, that's such a important call out, is that especially
when you're an adult, there's anopportunity to work through it
together and heal together, and it's important.
(38:11):
Yeah. And what advice do you have for
someone like yourself who has uncovered ADNA surprise?
So my first, and I think this isa common response, is to take a
minute for yourself, breathe, and then also like feel the
(38:32):
feelings. Like I very much gave myself
permission to feel the feelings and thanks to my therapist help
name the feelings. So if I was mad, I said it, I'm
mad. If I was sad or, you know, I'm
feeling this way, I've got tears.
I'm sad because of this. And I would allow myself to kind
(38:53):
of sit in those feelings, but I also wouldn't stay there.
So I'd be like, all right, todayI'm going to, you know, usually
it was like daily and like, I'm going to let myself be mad and
rage because they're still goingto be there.
So if you don't acknowledge them, they're going to creep up
on and and get you. So I think that's part of it is
just take your time, feel the feelings, give yourself
(39:15):
permission to change your mind. So like in for me, in the
beginning, I was like, I don't want to, you know, I'm not going
to reach out. I don't want to do this.
But that's, I think was a reaction to how I was worried
about it was how it's going to work out for my mom or what it
was going to mean for other people.
So I, I needed to give myself permission to be like, you know
what, it's OK that I'm going to change my mind because this is a
(39:38):
really, there's no guidebook forthis.
And so we're going to figure it out as we go.
And if that means later I'm going to do something
differently, then that's what I'm going to do.
So I think that's important. Give yourself permission to
change your mind and how you deal with this.
And then if I could say one more, like figure out what's
true to you. So for me, like I always said,
like I know I'm going to be OK. I know I'm going to be OK.
(40:01):
I know I'm loved and I know I'm going to be OK.
And so the rest of it sometimes was just like chatter.
Sometimes it was really loud andother times it died down.
But I would just be like, OK. Nope, I'm going to be OK.
This really hurts, but I'm goingto be OK.
So that's what I'd recommend is that just kind of come figure
out what the what's true to you and for you and and just focus
(40:24):
on that. That was all such good advice,
every every bit of it. I especially love the the naming
your feelings because there's somany feelings that we feel when
we go through this and being able to really identify what
they are and then move through them.
Like you said, not staying stuckthere because, you know,
(40:47):
sometimes you need to be angry for a while, but it doesn't feel
good to be angry for long, right?
And so, and sometimes it comes back and sometimes it leaves.
And just to, to let yourself feel all of the feelings.
Angelina, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing
your story. I think it's so important to
highlight these different kinds of journeys and experiences that
(41:08):
people have. And yours has a lot of nuance
and complexity with who knows and who doesn't know.
And there's still some level of uncertainty about what the
future looks like for you, but Iwish you nothing but the best as
you continue to figure it out and work through it.
Thank you so much. And I know a lot of guests say,
say this, but really your podcast, I mean, it is so
(41:31):
important the work because this is such a isolating feeling.
And my husband loves me dearly and he wants to be supportive,
and he has been, but there's no way that he can understand or
feel what I'm feeling. But just listening to the
podcast and knowing that there'sa community out there, it is so
incredibly important. So I really appreciate you
(41:53):
taking your time to have me on and just continue to do what you
do. Thank you so much.
Thanks again to Angelina for sharing her story.
If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please
submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early
add free access to episodes, join me over on
patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.
(42:18):
Until next time, This episode ofDNA Surprises was hosted,
produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt.
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording
Studios.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com