September 9, 2025 • 54 mins
Much like life, DNA surprises are rarely tied up in a perfect bow. We don’t get answers to all of the questions we have, and it’s up to us to make peace with that…or keep digging. In this week’s episode, Angie shares how she uncovered that she has a different biological father than her four sisters. She details her effort to find the truth when most of the people with answers have passed, and how she’s navigating that uncertainty.
Thank you for sharing your story, Angie.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The problem with the personal narrative disruption is you
start making up storylines and you start trying to put a puzzle
together, but there's so many missing pieces.
I have no idea what I'm creatingand if my mind is creating
things that are just so off base.
So I'm trying to put my narrative back together but I'm
(00:24):
creating it from a lot of missing pieces.
It's like trying to build a house but I don't have a strong
enough foundation to hold up anywall or any theory.
Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the
world of unexpected DNA discoveries.
I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.In July 2021, my life took a
(00:47):
surprising turn when I found outthat I'm an NPE, a person who
has experienced a non paternal event.
In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he
was. Join me as we explore the
stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their
(01:07):
families. Get ready to unravel the
astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.
This is DNA surprises. Much like life, DNA surprises
are rarely tied up in a perfect bow.
We don't get answers to all of the questions we have, and it's
(01:28):
up to us to make peace with thator keep digging.
In this week's episode, Angie shares how she uncovered that
she has a different biological father than her four sisters.
She details her effort to find the truth when most of the
people with answers have passed and how she's navigating that
(01:48):
uncertainty. Thank you for sharing your
story, Angie. I'm Angie and I'm 60 and I live
in Charlotte. In 2015, I took 23andMe.
A friend of mine was like, hey, have you heard of 23?
Me, my family and I, we just didit and it gives you a lot of
(02:11):
doubt about your health, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, oh, I've seen those commercials.
I don't know if I want to do that.
What do you think? And then they took it and I
said, what do you think? Did you get good information?
And so I did it. I took it and I got the results
back and it said I was 49% Ashkenazi Jewish.
(02:34):
And there was no doubt in my mind that it was wrong.
I was like, oh, I knew these things were fake.
I knew they were all just a hype.
I knew this was a money making thing, so my first thought was
just that it was a joke that everybody was buying into this
scam. My grandma always used to say
(02:56):
we're German, Irish and Dutch. It doesn't amount to much.
That was like her cute little song about it.
And then I understood that my dad's side was also German.
Didn't know as much about that side because my parents were
divorced. And so I was like, yes, no, we
(03:17):
have no Jewish, you know, ancestry.
So I put it away. I didn't think anything of it.
I truly didn't. One of my sisters has always
told me I'm a great compartmentalizer.
And I realized that I'm not justa, a good compartmentalizer.
I'm almost an expert at it, which is ironic because I teach
that there is no such thing, that we can pretend that we're
(03:40):
compartmentalizing, but we're really not because it sort of
seeps in like a slow leak in your shower and it's always
there. But I think in this situation,
it really didn't 'cause I reallydidn't believe it.
So I really don't think it had any impact on my emotional
health 'cause I really, truly thought it was a joke.
So Fast forward a few years and I have four sisters and one of
(04:05):
them called me one day and said,Angie, have you ever taken 23 in
me? And I was like, OK, trace the
gig. Is that like, yes, like, why are
you asking? She said, well, my daughter's
took it. I don't know how to say this.
(04:27):
And I said, well, just tries to say it, like kind of come out
with it. And I could feel my heart racing
then and I could feel me starting to realize that just
that awareness, that first glimmer of Oh my God, like, wait
a minute. So I said So what it say she's
(04:51):
like it said like you're AI can't remember it might have
been like a first cousin or something or can't remember what
it called me and she goes. But here's the deal.
I'm testing too. They bought me a kit.
I had a lot of thoughts coming in all at once.
And one of them was oh, so a it might be true.
(05:14):
And BI felt almost the trade isn't the right word, but it
felt like now my sister was gonna test 'cause everybody was
curious. It was almost like I was the,
the test tube and now we needed to like test all the other test
tubes and we needed to see it was more out of like morbid
(05:35):
curiosity than concern. Not that my sister wasn't
concerned, but it, it felt to melike, oh, so now we're all going
to test 'cause now we all want to know.
So I got the impression that herdaughters were pushing her to
test because they wanted, they wanted the goods.
And I don't mean that in any, I'm not saying that was true,
but it was kind of like it's that family thing where it's
(05:59):
juicy. And so you kind of want to know
what the story is. Were you wanting her to test?
Were you hoping to get more answers at that point?
Yeah, then I was, because then Iopened my computer and I was
like, so I said, OK, Trace. And she goes it, it takes a
(06:20):
while. And I was like, I know,
admittedly I was checking my computer probably daily.
And I remember that day I openedmy computer before I even got
her call and it said half sister.
And I just remember thinking Ouch, Ouch, Ouch.
(06:41):
But almost like on the verge of an emotional collapse and then
on the verge of I am numb. And then within minutes my phone
rang and I said, you don't have to tell me.
I already saw it. What did she say?
I'm sorry, Angie, I really don'tknow what to say.
And then she said, it doesn't matter.
(07:03):
You're my sister no matter what.And then I said it, but it does
matter. That's the thing.
It might not matter to you. And she said that's not what I
mean. And I was like, and I know I
wasn't being fair, you know, I was like, damn it, it does
matter. OK.
So a friend of mine calls it a personal narrative disruption,
(07:23):
and I call it a soccer punch, Right.
A personal narrative disruption.I'm like, yeah, Kelly, that's a
nice way of saying a sucker punch.
So I let it pause for a minute, and I went back to where most of
my sisters live. And for Mother's Day, I bought
them all a kit. And I said spit.
(07:46):
And two of them were like, I'm not doing that.
And I go, yes, you are. And we got into like a sister
disagreement. And I said, and my own sister
was like, I don't want to do it.Then I want my information out
there. And I said, it's not about you.
And she goes, well, how is it about you?
And I go, it's about me because apparently I'm the outlier, I'm
the bastard child. And I want to know, am I the
(08:07):
only one? And she goes, well, I don't want
to know. And I said, I don't care.
I want to know. And the only way I'm going to
know if I'm the only outlier is if you guys do it, do it for me.
So we went back and forth, back and forth.
And finally I was like, I'm not leaving here until you both
spit. And so they did.
(08:29):
And then my one sister was like,I'll turn it in.
They go, uh, uh, he goes, Oh my God, you don't even trust me.
And I go, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I bought the
kids. I'm turning them in.
So at this point your sisters all know that this has happened.
(08:49):
And what is the fair reaction tothis?
You know how families are like the telephone tree and one
person knows and the next thing you know, 50 people know?
I'm very close to my sisters, but I was disappointed in some
of the theories. So they start conjecturing about
what may have happened. So it turned out that, you know,
(09:11):
my dad wasn't my dad. So it went from everything from
rape. Mom was might have been raped
and I was like, pause that thought and ask yourself what
that might feel like from where I'm sitting.
I realize you're protecting Mom and you don't want me to think
that this side or the other, butthat's about as far South and
(09:35):
ugly. And it makes me feel not just
like I'm the bastard child, but I am because I did everything I
went back to. Wait, when was Roe V Wade
passed? Oh my God.
Oh my God. She couldn't have had an
abortion, you know, So my mind went everywhere.
What if she didn't want me? Like abortion wasn't legal.
(09:56):
And then spin, spin, spin. What if she didn't want me?
What if? What if she tried to get an
abortion? What if she was too afraid to do
an abortion? What if, what if, what if?
And so then when they came up with the rape conjecture, I was
like, don't go there. Don't make me that person that
came from a trauma. I don't want to be a trauma
(10:19):
baby. And where are you in birth order
compared to your sisters? The youngest.
And were your parents married atthe time that you were born?
So yes, so they got divorced when I was about 1 and I said to
my sisters, when all this was happening and there's all these
(10:41):
theories flying around and therewere other ones that were not
any prettier, I said to them, doany of you remember sitting at
the table? I said I was either in high
school or college. And we used to.
We were all very, very, very close.
My mom raised 5 girls on her own.
So we were very, very close. There was a lot of scarcity.
(11:05):
You know, my dad that I thought was my dad didn't play child
support. So there's a lot of scarcity.
There was probably what you could fairly call trauma
bonding. You know, where you're in the
single parent household. Back in the 60s, women weren't
supposed to be single. Not a lot of money.
Keep it behind closed doors, right?
We're going to be fine. We just stick together.
(11:28):
I said to them, don't you remember?
I was either in high school or college and we were having one
of our excuses to get together 'cause like we would get
together, you know, if the sun came up.
And we were just always gathering together, even as
adults. And I said, I remember sitting
there and somebody said something that never seemed to
fit the math. And I said, is dad really my
(11:49):
dad? And I said, and you guys got
quiet. We were very protective of my
mom. She was our savior.
Without her, we would have been on the streets.
We went in foster care like we were protective of her.
Again, a little bit of trauma bonding, but it got quiet as a
church mouse. And everybody looked at me like
I had just said the most egregious thing I could have
(12:13):
said to our mom. And none of them claimed they
remember that. And I said it was either college
or high school. And I said my take away was you
guys got quiet for one of two reasons.
Either you all knew something and no one was going to pass up
or you really thought that whatever, just my assumption, if
(12:33):
you will, was very egregious andinsulting to mom.
And I said, and I remember all that night spinning whether it
was high school or college and thinking So what is it?
Was what I said so egregious andoffensive to mom, or do they all
know something and they're not going to tell me?
And none of them claimed to remember that.
(12:54):
They're all like, I don't remember that.
I don't remember that. And they're like, what did mom
do? I said, I really don't remember.
I just remember. She looked shocked.
And I remember feeling guilty, like I had hurt her feelings.
And then I remember she got up and made an excuse to go in the
into the kitchen. And they're like, I don't
remember that at all. And you see, I have no memory of
that whatsoever. Do you believe that your sisters
(13:18):
were surprised by this information, or do you think
that they knew something even ifthey pushed it out of their
mind? I believe they were surprised,
but some of the other, I guess Ilike your word, conjectures.
Their suspicions, their theories.
My oldest sister then told me a story and I was like, why would
(13:41):
you have never told me that? I just didn't think anything of
it. I was only 8 1/2 or 9 or 10 or
whatever. I was young.
I was young, I was young. It was about a man and what She
remembers him coming over to thehouse and now she wonders if
that was him. Then she started speculating.
(14:01):
Maybe it was this. Maybe the because after my mom
and dad got divorced, like I said it was only like 1.
My mom you know did a fair amount of dating but never ever
ever got remarried. Never had a live in like always
said she would never trust a mancoming into a home with five
little girls. She was very protective of us.
Like she did not trust another man helping to raise her
(14:24):
children. Because I think my mom had
enough life experience to know in her mind what could happen if
she was to bring the wrong man into the home, you know, So she
was very protective of us. But she did do a fair amount of
dating. So then they all started
speculating about this man or this man.
And those speculations were fine.
But there's another part to the story.
(14:46):
So when my oldest sister said she remembers a man coming over,
the way I remember her telling me was that a man came over and
said, I want to see the baby. And she said she could tell even
at a young age that my mom did not want him there.
And then when I asked her like ayear ago, she's like, that's not
what I said, but that there was a man.
And he did have an accent. And like, maybe he was from, you
(15:08):
know, Poland or Romania, and he had a very strong accent.
And I thought she remembered saying that he wanted to see the
baby. But again, contextually, it
meant nothing to her. She just could tell that he
wasn't a man that mom wanted to see, unlike other dates that
might show up and my mom would be happy to go out on a date, if
you will. And then my mom passed.
(15:32):
My mom got dementia. So when all this came out.
So by the way, the other two sisters spit.
They come in and they're all half sisters.
And then my other sister took Ancestry and so she had not
taken 23 me. So then I bought an Ancestry
kit. Damn it, I wanted another
outlier. OK, I don't know.
(15:53):
I want to be the only bastard child.
They're all full siblings with each other.
They. Are and so that was the full on
Angie's gonna have an emotional meltdown or she's gonna pack it
away. So far I haven't had that
emotional meltdown. Perhaps it would be good for me.
I'm really busy packing, which goes against what I help my
(16:14):
clients with. And so two of them, after all
this happened and there's all this speculation about all the
horrible things, you know, maybeit's just me and this man or
this man came and said I want tosee the baby or maybe she was
raped and all this is going on. And I'm like, stop the noise.
Stop the noise, you're not helping me.
Then two of them said that my mom made a comment when she was
(16:36):
sick. My one sister said that she said
that my mom was crying one day and she was very confused.
And if you've ever seen dementia, you know that there's
hallucinations. There can be.
You know, the brain does crazy things, and sometimes they go
way back and you don't know what's true and what's not.
(16:57):
Or sometimes they say things about you and you go, wow, is
that what she always thought, you know?
Like. Like my one sister said that one
day my mom started crying and said she has a different mom.
And my sister kept saying no, mom, no, no, no, no, we're all
your daughters. No, no, she has a different mom.
(17:18):
And she said my mom was so frustrated.
Like, listen to me, you're not listening to me.
And my sister was like, mom, we're all your daughters.
And I was like, Laurie, why didn't you ever tell me that?
But again, she's like, no, that's, that's just in
contextually. Mom said a lot of stuff that we
(17:39):
didn't think anything up, but the other one that she said, and
this one was to my other sister,my mom would get frustrated.
The disease can be very frustrating and they can become
very agitated and they can lash out because they've lost their
sense of personal autonomy and control.
And that's one of our greatest human fears.
(17:59):
We all want to be autonomous humans.
We don't want somebody to tell us what to do, especially the
people that we raised. So one of my sisters was over
there doing the caregiving that day and I must have made my mom
mad. Usually the person who would
come over to help would make hermad 'cause she didn't want help.
So I think I might have been on my way.
And my sister said that my mom said she's got a different dad
(18:23):
and my sister goes what mom and my mom goes she has a different
dad. And my sister said she said it
like spicy mom, like the mom that we don't know, that became
spicy mom. And she goes and I was like,
mom, she does not have a different dad.
We all have the same dad. You know, we know who our dad is
and you're our mom. So to one of them, she said
(18:47):
somebody has a different mom 'cause she got confused.
And then to the other one, she had said she has a different
dad. But the whole thing of that
story isn't necessarily about who said what.
The whole thing was. It made it clear to me that she
did know. Had she passed by the time you
took your test? OK.
And so had my dad. That's not my dad.
(19:11):
OK, so you couldn't go there to ask questions?
That was probably the hardest part because I could resolve it
in my mind by saying she might have suspected but didn't know.
But the fact that she brought itup to two of them when she was
sick, when the filters are down,made me realize she, she knew.
(19:34):
And I was like, oh ow, ow, ow, she knew.
Describe how that felt. Sometimes I feel really sorry
for her because secrets are really, really they're not
healthy. Secrets aren't healthy.
And when we hold secrets, we're kind of holding trauma.
(20:00):
And when we hold trauma, we're not releasing it.
And so that's a big hold to die with the secret.
And so sometimes I feel really sorry for her that she had to
hold that secret. And sometimes I feel very, very
protective of her because on an intellectual level, as a mom, I
(20:25):
can go. I get it.
You got five daughters. Your whole world is raising
them. Your whole world is keeping a
roof over their head. Again, scarcity was very big,
very powerful day-to-day, month to month.
(20:46):
It was never enough. Not enough money, not enough
food, not enough anything. It was the 60s.
There was no child support. Women couldn't even get their
own checking account back then, right?
Like Married With, you know, like it was, it was real.
And so teachers didn't like us because we were like the bastard
children who didn't have a dad. You know, my mom worked nonstop.
(21:08):
And so part of me is like, oh, Candy.
I have so much empathy for her. A, she had to carry that story
her whole life. It probably did not serve her
with her health. But B, what would her choice
have been to tell the kid that she's the outlier?
So every holiday, potentially she's got to go with her dad,
(21:34):
while the other four get to be with mom and they get to have
this wonderful holiday. So then I got to be the kid
who's not a part of them. And I've got to grow up knowing
that that I'm the one who has a different dad.
I'm the one who doesn't belong. I'm the one who what goes and
celebrates Hanukkah while they celebrate Christmas.
(21:55):
I'm the one who she has to sharetime with.
But she gets the rest of us to herself.
After your parents, your birth certificate, father and your mom
divorced he was he completely out of your lives at that point?
No, there's some feelings about that too because he was in and
(22:20):
out. So my dad went overseas for
about 8 years for the military and he got remarried over there.
Two of my oldest sisters went tolive with him because my mom
wanted them to have an opportunity to be abroad and she
knew that that was not financially going to be
something she could ever provide.
And he had kind of offered OK, like basically like peace
(22:41):
offering. OK, I never pay Charles Ford,
but I'll take a couple of them. All right, send them over.
And so they went over. They had a great time.
They were in high school. They had such wonderful
memories. They got with the wife,
graduated over there, they had great memories.
They was good. Good for them.
Like it was great opportunity really was.
And then the next sister in linea couple years later, he said,
(23:05):
OK, I'll take a couple more. So there's a couple more.
Over. And so the next sister was 16 at
the time and she had a boyfriendand she was like, I'm not going.
And then the one under her was like, I'm definitely not going.
And then I was in like 6th grade, I'll go, but I was only
(23:25):
6th grade. So we lasted like 6 months.
And at that time you could tell my dad's second marriage was
kind of on the rocks. It was a lot of strife there.
So we went overseas for like 6 months with him and but still we
weren't like close. Like he used to scared that
Jesus out of me. Like he was just a harsh man,
not physical harsh. She was just a harsh man.
(23:47):
Like if he said eat your dinner,like you ate your dinner right,
you didn't cross him. We didn't know him.
So there was never any pushing at boundaries because you don't
really know this man. He's been in our lives, been
hourly in our lives. Like he would pick us up when we
were growing up once in a great while, like on a Sunday, and
he'd take us to my grandmother'shouse and he had a bunch of
(24:09):
brothers and they'd all like smoke and watch the the cubbies.
And then the kids would all run around and play at my
grandmother's house. So we spent some time with him
and I went over there in 6th grade and and then when I went
to go away to college, I had a lunch with him and something was
(24:29):
said in that lunch. And I remember thinking, what do
you mean by that? And, and I'm not sure I want to
unpack that right now because itit's more layered, but he said.
Something. And it made me go, and I look
back on that now and they go, oh, I wonder if, you know, the
(24:52):
problem with the personal narrative disruption is you
start making up storylines and you start trying to put a puzzle
together. But there's so many missing
pieces. I have no idea what I'm creating
and if my mind is creating things that are just so off
(25:14):
base. So I'm trying to put my
narrative back together, but I'mcreating it from a lot of
missing pieces. It's like trying to build a
house but I don't have a strong enough foundation to hold up any
wall or any theory. So what he said and the reason I
don't want to pack it is it kindof had no meaning to this
whatsoever that I'm giving it meaning.
(25:38):
Or it could have, I don't know. Yeah, it's in hindsight.
We look back at all these moments and try to think, was
that an opportunity? Was he trying to tell me
something? Was that a hint?
Totally, totally. I think that's something that I
hear over and over again. And you're not alone in that is
the the trying to make sense of just every little moment and
(26:02):
reflecting and looking back at all the little clues.
And yes, that really resonates. I'm glad I'm not the only one
that it. And it's funny, 'cause when he
said it, whether it was around the time that I said is dad, my
dad, whether that made me pause more, whatever the case, I never
(26:24):
ever forgot it. And when this happened, it
seemed like it definitely could have held some meaning.
But then what I will say is the meaning then would be that he
knew too. And I think that's what really
(26:46):
shocked me because if he knew, why was he willing to play
along? What happened?
You know, what happened, that hewas willing to play along
because he was a man's man. Like this is men in the 60s.
Like I said, he and all his brothers were divorced.
(27:06):
They were on wife number 2. They were, you know, Rico
Suave's like they, you know whatI mean?
Like they were just, oh, the egowas all there and the, you know,
I'm hot and you're not kind of saying, you know, back in.
And I was like, why would he have played along?
Because I guess I just would have thought that he wouldn't.
(27:33):
The way I understand it is they were ultimately divorced and I
was like 1, but he was gone years before that.
He was in and out. He was having affair after
affair after affair. So my theory, the way that I
resolved it was Stella got out and got her groove back one
night. Stella was like, you've been
doing this for years. I'm hot too, 'cause my mom was
(27:57):
very, very, very attractive. Very attractive.
And I was like, good. She went out one night and
thought I can do it. And that was my theory.
I liked that theory. Stella got her group back.
Yes. Stella wanted to be a man.
Stella was like, I'm tired of men having all the fun.
You're out there sleeping with everybody who will sleep with
(28:19):
you. How about I get a chance?
And then my Part B of that theory is she gets pregnant, but
he's in and out. And I know she loved him deeply
and did not want it to end. I know she did.
So my theory is he's in and out.She's not sure but she suspects.
(28:42):
Uh oh but she's not really sure.But then when all that was said
to my sisters I was like OK she is sure, she does know.
Then I look back at what he saidand I go I think he might have
known. And then I go, shit, there goes
my theory. Like, but maybe he did know, but
(29:03):
he just said OK. Like in fairness, I've been out
doing this for years, let's not do this to her.
And also, if you think about menback then and the ego in the
whole it's a man's world and youcan't even have a checkbook.
If you think about men back then, it probably would have
held his ego more intact to put his name on my birth certificate
(29:27):
than to think his wife was doingwhat he was doing.
Right. Yeah, that's totally plausible.
If there was any ego to, it would have been more names going
on there because I'm not going to let you tell the world that
you did what I'm doing. Exactly.
Yeah, I, I don't know. I just know that he didn't play
(29:47):
child support. And then there was a little bit
of guilt there, too. Like, is that what happened?
Did he not pay because he was like, OK, this is theory.
I'm going to post this story foryou, OK?
You're a man in the 60s. You got a big echo, right?
You've been out playing the field.
Now, your wife might have done what you did again.
(30:07):
No, no, no, no. That's not going to look good at
the bowling alley with all your friends.
You got to say face. You got to put your name on the
birth certificate because you don't want your buddies to know
that your wife is what you're doing.
And the other part of the theoryis, but it also is an excuse to
say I'm not paying child support.
(30:28):
Look what you did. So all of a sudden, it's like
flipping the script. But then there was a little bit
of guilt, like, am I the reason she never got child support?
Like, was he able to flip the script and point the finger at
her and be like, yeah, I'm not the only one who did it.
Look what you did. But my story is she kind of had
(30:49):
a right to do it because he was doing it for so long, for so
many years, and she loved him and he was not being a good
husband. OK, so you've, you kind of
landed on a theory that maybe makes sense.
It does make sense. You aren't necessarily going to
know. Is there anyone in your story
(31:11):
who is still alive that you can talk to?
Like aunts or uncles or cousins that may have heard gossip or
anything like that. So there's some stuff that
happens in this world that you can't make up because it's so
darn ironic. So I can tell none of my four
sisters now, right? And I again, the stuff they were
(31:35):
coming up with was just noise and it was toxic noise and it
was causing me more disruption to my emotional health.
So I had one aunt who was alive,but my mom was not close to her.
My mom had a brother and a sister.
The brother's been passed for years.
My mom and my quote dad were already passed.
So I said to my sister, I'm going to call mom's sister.
(31:58):
And my sister was like Angie, she's not going to know
anything. They weren't close at all.
She never told her anything. I was like yes, fine, that's
fine. So I call my brother-in-law
because I was like, hey, do you have her latest number?
And he goes, it is so weird thatyou called.
And I go, why? And he goes, she passed away
(32:18):
last night. I go like, are you fucking
kidding me? And he goes, why?
Like none of us were really close to her.
And I go, forget it, Just forgetit.
So I call my sister and I had like, a serious meltdown.
And I was like, shrieking. And I was like, what is it?
The, the, the minute I get closeto something, she goes, it's OK.
(32:41):
She did, she wasn't going to know anything.
And I said, but it's just so ironic.
I finally get the courage to call her and she literally
passed away the night before. And she was like super old.
So I called her daughter and I was like, hey, here's the deal.
And her daughter said, Oh my gosh, Angie, I don't have words.
I'm, I'm truly shocked she goes,no, I, I guarantee you my mom
(33:04):
didn't know. And she's like, I loved your mom
so much like your mom loved you guys.
I just never would have expectedthat.
So that weren't that one. So we're going through our like
mental Rolodex and I said, I'm going to call mom's best friend.
She's still alive. So I called her one night.
(33:27):
She claimed on her life she didn't know anything.
She said I met your mom when youwere four.
We met at a department store. We worked at Turnstile together.
You were already like 4. Your mom never said anything.
She said. I swear, Angie, she never said a
word. And she goes.
I feel like she would have told me, but your mom was pretty
(33:47):
private. Did you reach out to anyone else
trying to get clues or was her best friend your last stop in
people in her life? No, there's one more.
So my oldest daughter was very interested when all this first
happened. So she does a lot of digging
(34:08):
initially. She gets very invested in it for
a short period of time and she makes a treat and she gets it
down and she's like, she could tell the grandparents, she could
tell there were eight kids, She could tell who had gotten
married. And then there was 1 outlier,
one man who had not gotten married.
We could trace them back to where we grew up.
(34:29):
We could trace them back to whatthey did.
I found the obituary of the one who never got married, but he
would have been like 25 years older than my mom.
And I was like, oh, mom was young.
She was super hot, super attractive, like she would have
never been like now and then. Like we know what they did.
We know what they owned, we knowtheir business.
(34:53):
And it said in there that he loved to dance.
And it named a specific place that he used to love to go
dancing. Well, that's where my mom always
went dancing. So about a year ago, I said to
my one sister who I talked the most about, I said I'm calling
(35:13):
this gentleman who is my mom's friend.
He is the spouse of my mom's other best friend, my mom's
other best friend, like like 20 years ago.
I call him up and I get right tothe point and he immediately
says, Oh yeah, I know that story.
Evelyn told me that was his ex-wife.
And they said, huh? So mom told Evelyn.
(35:34):
Yeah, Yeah. And I go, well, mom was super
private. I'm kind of surprised that if
mom told Evelyn, she would tell you.
He goes, we were married. It was pillow talk.
That was literally, quote, UN quote.
So I said, OK, then who is it? Oh, I don't know.
OK, so you know, I have a different dad.
(35:55):
You know the whole story, but you allegedly don't know who.
Yes. I don't know.
I go. Huh.
I'm struggling with that. Oh, it's in the past, Angie.
Just you need to let it go. It's in the past.
And so, you know, there's something I've learned.
I can go the rest of my life without somebody telling me how
I should feel or what I should do about my own personal story.
(36:18):
And trust me when I tell you I'mgoing to try not to tell you how
you should feel about things. Well, now I pissed him off.
So I try to soften the conversation a little bit, and
then he starts giving me BS. He's like, well, you know,
there's this man, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. And he starts to build this
whole story about this guy that he knew that he had introduced
(36:39):
my mom to and that they were pretty smitten with each other.
And it might be him. And I was like, is he Jewish?
No, no, but it could be him. I go, it's not going to be him
if he's not Jewish. Well, I'm going to call him
anyway. I go, no, don't call him.
We're not telling anybody. My sisters don't want me to tell
anybody. They, they feel like that's a
(37:00):
disservice to mom, like I'm outing mom because that was the
other thing. They didn't want me to tell
anybody. I wasn't supposed to talk about
it and that. And so finally I got to a point
where I thought, you don't get to tell me not to tell my story.
So I finally was like, I'm not doing this anymore.
I'm not playing. I'm not going to do this just
because you think I shouldn't talk about it because you think
(37:22):
it might put mom in whatever light.
I'm sorry. This is my story.
So he then builds this narrativeabout how it could be this one
guy. So he goes, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
give him a call. I'm gonna give him a call right
now. So of course, he doesn't call me
back. I call him a couple weeks later.
Oh, yeah, I call him. I call him.
He said it's not him. They go, yeah, well, I probably
(37:42):
could have told you that because, again, he's not Jewish.
So I said, well, OK, there's a man.
He used to go dancing or mom used to go dancing, and I named
the place the place. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember him.
I go, you too. Oh, they used to love to dance.
They were both great dancers. They were show stoppers.
(38:04):
Like they used to love to go dancing together.
I bet it is. And I said, well, he was a lot
older, yeah, yeah. But he wasn't married.
And that was as much as I got. That's the furthest I've gotten.
There's other parts to the storythat go into what I found on
23andMe, but as far as reaching out to people, that's all I had.
(38:30):
OK, OK. Now you have connections on
23andMe. What happens with those and what
was your closest connection? There's a gentleman who shows up
as my closest connection and then there's another girl and I
can't remember what it is, what their relationship is.
(38:53):
And I reach out to him. I message him on 23andMe and he
says my daughter used to work for 23andMe.
These stories happen all the time.
It's very sad and I quote but just be happy.
Grew up in a good home. So once again someone telling me
how to feel that it was all I could do not to send a few
choice words back to him and saythank you for me.
(39:15):
Explaining to me how I should feel and how I'm just so lucky
that I grew up in a good home. When you don't know what I grew
up in. Yes it was a good home, but you
don't know that. It's presumptuous.
It's like, don't tell me what I should or shouldn't feel or I
should just be happy. And so I said, look, this has to
do with health issues 'cause it really does.
(39:37):
Like, I wanna know, does that side have dementia?
Does that side have heart disease?
I wanna know because I know whatmy mom's side has.
I know there's heart disease, there's dementia.
I wanna know what this side has.And he gave me a heart shot
down. I mean, be happy, feel this way.
You had a good home. Go away, little girl.
(39:59):
I mean, it was clear. Then he hides his tree.
So I emailed the other girl. I don't hear back for a long
time. Then I hear back and she says,
you know, we all got together for the holidays and we were
talking about it and we think there's only one person it could
be because we've never heard anystories and it's the guy who was
(40:19):
never married. In other words, we needed to be
him because none of us want to think it was our time.
Right. Right, so low hanging fruit.
Gotta be that guy, the guy who'snot married 'cause it definitely
ain't gonna be my dad or grandpa.
And then she hides her tree and I was like those bitches because
(40:41):
I'm 60, I'm fine, I'm established.
I don't want anybody's money. Jesus Christ.
I just want to know my health. I want to know who he is.
I want to know what happened, ifthere's anybody who knows.
And I want to know what my health risks are.
Is her heart disease? Is her dementia?
What are the big things I shouldwatch out for?
Like Ashkenazi Jewish, very highrisk for breast cancer.
(41:03):
Hey, I might have wanted to knowthat.
So there was one other girl. She's pretty far down.
She was the only one who was lovely.
And she goes, do you want me to ask my dad?
My dad knows nothing and it's pretty far removed.
So she's like, I would talk to you anytime if you want to just
hop on a call. And I never did follow through
because I'm thinking she's so far over on the tree.
(41:27):
I feel like it would just be telling a story that exhausts me
but not really getting anywhere.But she was lovely.
I just don't think she has any information.
Have you done anything else to get any closer or is that kind
of where it ends in terms of figuring it out?
It really ends there. I know there's DNA angels.
(41:49):
I had a girl on my show and she has a podcast.
She is a researcher and does a lot with DNA.
And I also reached out to another DNA person and both of
them were like to tell more men test and basically yours being
that far back. And if it was this guy that
(42:11):
every that seems to be the most suspect of the low hanging
fruit. He passed when my youngest
daughter was born. He's been dead for years because
again, he was like 25 years older than my mom.
And so he had no kids, no spouse.
So there's no one there. I have a feeling those two
people who shot me out know something or have some
(42:31):
suspicion. I mean outside is showing up at
their door one day making them super uncomfortable and finding
out where they live and then potentially getting arrested and
being a stalker. Which don't get me wrong I think
about daily trust me I do. But or hiring DNA angels just to
see? How have you I guess come to
(42:52):
terms with or not the fact that you do have so many questions
still? I think.
I haven't. I think even though I teach
clients and people that you can't hack it away, that again,
it's like a leaky faucet. It's it's leaking, but I think
(43:14):
it exhausts me both ways. It's it's like emotionally
depleting. It's almost like not reaching
out means that there still couldbe hope.
But if you reach out and they shut you down, there's 0 hope.
So maybe it's me not reaching out or pursuing.
This is my way of protecting my heart.
(43:37):
Because if they say hard no, we can't get anywhere, then I have
to face that I'll never ever know.
But by not pursuing it, my psyche can say, oh, if you
really want to know, you'll findout.
If you really want to know, you'll find out.
But I think that there's a part of me that knows that that's
probably not true. And so me doing that and then
(44:00):
realizing I'm never going to know is the finality that I
don't have to face by not pursuing it, if that makes
sense. Yeah, that does make sense.
It's like it's protective. Yeah, I think it is, but it's
not doing me any favors. It's not at all.
But I think it is sort of protective because I'm so afraid
(44:21):
they're going to say there's no hope.
So there are no siblings to be found that you know of, right?
I mean, there could always be someone else out there, but to
your knowledge she doesn't have any other children.
That's what I keep hoping for. I keep hoping I'm going to open
up 23 and me one day and I'm going to find a sibling that is
(44:41):
almost like a dream, like he hadanother baby somewhere.
You mentioned earlier that you maybe haven't let yourself feel
that full emotional breakdown around it.
Do you still feel that in there?Have you processed it in some
other way? 10 years is a long time, so how
(45:01):
are you moving through this? I think when you're in a dark
spot about something in your life, all the other dark spots
do a pile on. So usually when I'm stressed or
I'm hurt or there's something else big going on in my life, my
brain doesn't pile on. And it goes into the you don't
(45:23):
even belong in your own family. She didn't even want you.
She couldn't have had an abortion.
Even if she wanted to have an abortion, she couldn't.
She didn't even want you. You don't even belong.
You weren't even meant to be here.
And it goes to like the most horrific dark spaces.
(45:44):
And it's like, where do you fit in?
Because you're like a square pigin a round hole.
You don't fit into your biological family.
Because that is an interesting part of it, too, is my sister
who's next to me and lying said to me, one day, I hope you don't
mind me saying this. And I said, well, now you got to
say it. She goes, it makes so much
(46:07):
sense. And I go, what do you mean?
And she goes, look at you and then look at us.
She's like, you went out there, you got a degree, you got a
master's degree. You like moved away, you went to
college. You, you, you sort of like
created this big life. And she goes and the rest of us
(46:28):
did it. And you've always been
different. Like you've always been way more
driven, more confident, more outgoing.
You just have been different. It's true you would not pick me
and my sisters out from the lineup and put us together.
And it is true I am extremely different from all of them.
(46:49):
I am much more driven. I am much more independent.
I am the only one who moved away.
I am the first one who went to college.
I'm just different. And it definitely does make
sense in that way. But my mind can go to some
really dark spaces about being asquare pig in a round hole.
What would you say is next for you?
(47:12):
I need to give myself a hard deadline and say, OK, you got to
call DNA angels, you got to justfill out the paperwork, you got
to do it. Stop denying it.
I know it's protected, but it's not helping.
And you really should just see. And if you find out that there's
nothing to find out, at least you'll know and you can put it
(47:33):
to rest. So I think that's probably
what's next. And then hopefully connect with
other people. In my situation, I always
believe that you take your pain and you get a purpose.
So whether that means that I runa support group or I speak at a
conference where people are struggling, I think I've been in
(47:56):
the shadows for so long. I've been hiding for so many
years now, 10 years now, that maybe it's time that I come out
of the shadows and use my experience to help other people.
I just never really knew if it was a story worth sharing
because I don't have any answers.
So I was like, my story's boring.
I don't have any answers. No, but as I always say,
(48:16):
everyone is at a different point.
And I think, you know, I get messages from people all the
time talking about how they heard some story or they heard
some nugget from some story, whether it's very similar to
theirs or different. But it, it helped them.
And I think that it is helpful for people to hear that there's
(48:36):
somebody else who doesn't have answers, that they're not alone,
that not everybody uncovers every scrap of information.
I hope that you do get your answers and that the DNA angels
or someone else is able to help you find him.
But your story is absolutely worth telling whether or not you
know for sure at this point. Yeah, I guess that.
(48:58):
I was just thought it would be too boring.
There's no closure. It's not wrapped up in a pretty
package. It's not a Hallmark story.
It doesn't end with my family embracing me and being like, Oh
my God, we've been hoping you would come forward.
They don't, though they don't always end up that way.
What advice do you have for someone who may be keeping adna
surprise from their child? 1st, I want to say that I have a
(49:21):
ton of compassion and empathy because again, I can see where
it's a very difficult space because you don't want that kid
to be the one kid, you know? Like in my situation, I can't
imagine that my mom would have wanted me to be that kid who had
to leave on the holidays and be away from all of us.
That would have made me always feel like I didn't belong.
And now I already feel like I don't belong, but at least I
(49:43):
didn't have to feel like that growing up.
That's just my ugly parts telling me I don't belong, but
at least I meant to grow up experiencing that.
So I would just say wait it out and at some point, maybe when
your child gets older, find a time.
Because I don't think dying witha secret is a good thing.
I think that secrets never stay secrets.
(50:05):
Somehow, someway, secrets never stay secrets.
And if you die with that secret,you risk that your child will
resent you for the rest of your life.
I don't resent my mom. I feel a lot of empathy for her,
but I also feel a lot of pain for me.
I feel a lot of tremendous pain for me.
But I think my mom is lucky thatI don't resent her 'cause I
think there's probably a lot of people who do.
(50:27):
So don't spend all those years raising your child trying to be
a good parent. Only two.
When you're gone and you don't have answers and you can't
defend yourself, have your childcome up with all these stories
that could be so far from the truth and then risk that they
could resent you for the rest oftheir lives.
And not to mention you're reallygoing to mess them up
psychologically. And what advice do you have for
someone who just uncovered Adna surprise?
(50:50):
Get support. There are people in my life who
I wanted to support me who did not, were not able, or were not
willing. But some of my friends were
amazing. But I usually use humor, so
humor is always my defense. So I called a few of my friends,
like who I knew were Jewish. We had a good laugh and they
sent me some funny stuff and it was all ha ha ha.
(51:12):
But there was pain underneath that.
But humor helped me to go get some support.
Sometimes people dismiss what they don't know or what feels
too heavy for them. And so sometimes even your
closest people are going to disappoint you because they
don't have the tools or they don't understand why it would
(51:34):
bother you. They don't, they just don't get
it. They're like, oh, whatever, like
they're dead, who cares? Like you had a good growing up.
Go back to what I said, a personal narrative disruption.
It makes you question your wholelife.
Every single piece of your history is in question.
Every single holiday, every story, every memory is in
(51:56):
question about the reality versus the truth.
How much of that was real and how much of that was people
hiding or keeping something fromyou?
It disrupts everything you thought about your childhood.
So you need to get support. And if I'm going to be just very
frank about something, I'm angrywith these testing companies.
(52:17):
They put the cart before the horse.
I'm angry. And that's where I do get angry
and spicy and I go off on my bandwagon.
How dare they offer all these testing services and they they
open up Pandora's box, but they offer no services for
psychological Wellness and, you know, helping people who might
(52:38):
really not be able to cope with this.
Shame on these companies. Shame on these companies for
putting it out there and then just making people deal with the
aftermath. I completely agree.
I have written and passioned emails to 23andMe and Ancestry
(52:59):
because I think that leaving links on their website and like
an e-mail of here's a list of four thing you know websites to
go to for support is not enough.It's not new.
That wasn't even there before. It wasn't there before.
I want to say within the last few years.
I really feel like they should have departments of well-being
(53:21):
providers. I realized they might not be
able to be like licensed counselors for people, but
somebody to really support people in those initial moments
because it's so raw. It is so raw before you can, you
know, connect them to a professional or something in
their area. But there needs to be more than
just this happened sometimes. So sorry.
Here's a link that's. Yeah, because it's like a
(53:43):
suicide hotline, like you need immediate, to your point
resources. Angie, thank you so much for
joining me on the podcast and sharing your story.
I know that you weren't sure if your story was worth telling, so
to speak, because you don't haveall the answers.
But I think that that makes yourstory just as powerful as anyone
else's. And I hope that you do get the
(54:05):
answers that you're looking for.Thank you.
Thank you for having me on. Thanks again to Angie for
sharing her story. If you have Adna surprise that
you'd like to share, submit yourstory at dnasurprises.com and
for early add free access to episodes, join me over on
patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.
(54:28):
Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises
was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt.
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording
Studios.
The problem with the personal narrative disruption is you
start making up storylines and you start trying to put a puzzle
together, but there's so many missing pieces.
I have no idea what I'm creatingand if my mind is creating
things that are just so off base.
So I'm trying to put my narrative back together but I'm
(00:24):
creating it from a lot of missing pieces.
It's like trying to build a house but I don't have a strong
enough foundation to hold up anywall or any theory.
Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the
world of unexpected DNA discoveries.
I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.In July 2021, my life took a
(00:47):
surprising turn when I found outthat I'm an NPE, a person who
has experienced a non paternal event.
In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he
was. Join me as we explore the
stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their
(01:07):
families. Get ready to unravel the
astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.
This is DNA surprises. Much like life, DNA surprises
are rarely tied up in a perfect bow.
We don't get answers to all of the questions we have, and it's
(01:28):
up to us to make peace with thator keep digging.
In this week's episode, Angie shares how she uncovered that
she has a different biological father than her four sisters.
She details her effort to find the truth when most of the
people with answers have passed and how she's navigating that
(01:48):
uncertainty. Thank you for sharing your
story, Angie. I'm Angie and I'm 60 and I live
in Charlotte. In 2015, I took 23andMe.
A friend of mine was like, hey, have you heard of 23?
Me, my family and I, we just didit and it gives you a lot of
(02:11):
doubt about your health, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, oh, I've seen those commercials.
I don't know if I want to do that.
What do you think? And then they took it and I
said, what do you think? Did you get good information?
And so I did it. I took it and I got the results
back and it said I was 49% Ashkenazi Jewish.
(02:34):
And there was no doubt in my mind that it was wrong.
I was like, oh, I knew these things were fake.
I knew they were all just a hype.
I knew this was a money making thing, so my first thought was
just that it was a joke that everybody was buying into this
scam. My grandma always used to say
(02:56):
we're German, Irish and Dutch. It doesn't amount to much.
That was like her cute little song about it.
And then I understood that my dad's side was also German.
Didn't know as much about that side because my parents were
divorced. And so I was like, yes, no, we
(03:17):
have no Jewish, you know, ancestry.
So I put it away. I didn't think anything of it.
I truly didn't. One of my sisters has always
told me I'm a great compartmentalizer.
And I realized that I'm not justa, a good compartmentalizer.
I'm almost an expert at it, which is ironic because I teach
that there is no such thing, that we can pretend that we're
(03:40):
compartmentalizing, but we're really not because it sort of
seeps in like a slow leak in your shower and it's always
there. But I think in this situation,
it really didn't 'cause I reallydidn't believe it.
So I really don't think it had any impact on my emotional
health 'cause I really, truly thought it was a joke.
So Fast forward a few years and I have four sisters and one of
(04:05):
them called me one day and said,Angie, have you ever taken 23 in
me? And I was like, OK, trace the
gig. Is that like, yes, like, why are
you asking? She said, well, my daughter's
took it. I don't know how to say this.
(04:27):
And I said, well, just tries to say it, like kind of come out
with it. And I could feel my heart racing
then and I could feel me starting to realize that just
that awareness, that first glimmer of Oh my God, like, wait
a minute. So I said So what it say she's
(04:51):
like it said like you're AI can't remember it might have
been like a first cousin or something or can't remember what
it called me and she goes. But here's the deal.
I'm testing too. They bought me a kit.
I had a lot of thoughts coming in all at once.
And one of them was oh, so a it might be true.
(05:14):
And BI felt almost the trade isn't the right word, but it
felt like now my sister was gonna test 'cause everybody was
curious. It was almost like I was the,
the test tube and now we needed to like test all the other test
tubes and we needed to see it was more out of like morbid
(05:35):
curiosity than concern. Not that my sister wasn't
concerned, but it, it felt to melike, oh, so now we're all going
to test 'cause now we all want to know.
So I got the impression that herdaughters were pushing her to
test because they wanted, they wanted the goods.
And I don't mean that in any, I'm not saying that was true,
but it was kind of like it's that family thing where it's
(05:59):
juicy. And so you kind of want to know
what the story is. Were you wanting her to test?
Were you hoping to get more answers at that point?
Yeah, then I was, because then Iopened my computer and I was
like, so I said, OK, Trace. And she goes it, it takes a
(06:20):
while. And I was like, I know,
admittedly I was checking my computer probably daily.
And I remember that day I openedmy computer before I even got
her call and it said half sister.
And I just remember thinking Ouch, Ouch, Ouch.
(06:41):
But almost like on the verge of an emotional collapse and then
on the verge of I am numb. And then within minutes my phone
rang and I said, you don't have to tell me.
I already saw it. What did she say?
I'm sorry, Angie, I really don'tknow what to say.
And then she said, it doesn't matter.
(07:03):
You're my sister no matter what.And then I said it, but it does
matter. That's the thing.
It might not matter to you. And she said that's not what I
mean. And I was like, and I know I
wasn't being fair, you know, I was like, damn it, it does
matter. OK.
So a friend of mine calls it a personal narrative disruption,
(07:23):
and I call it a soccer punch, Right.
A personal narrative disruption.I'm like, yeah, Kelly, that's a
nice way of saying a sucker punch.
So I let it pause for a minute, and I went back to where most of
my sisters live. And for Mother's Day, I bought
them all a kit. And I said spit.
(07:46):
And two of them were like, I'm not doing that.
And I go, yes, you are. And we got into like a sister
disagreement. And I said, and my own sister
was like, I don't want to do it.Then I want my information out
there. And I said, it's not about you.
And she goes, well, how is it about you?
And I go, it's about me because apparently I'm the outlier, I'm
the bastard child. And I want to know, am I the
(08:07):
only one? And she goes, well, I don't want
to know. And I said, I don't care.
I want to know. And the only way I'm going to
know if I'm the only outlier is if you guys do it, do it for me.
So we went back and forth, back and forth.
And finally I was like, I'm not leaving here until you both
spit. And so they did.
(08:29):
And then my one sister was like,I'll turn it in.
They go, uh, uh, he goes, Oh my God, you don't even trust me.
And I go, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I bought the
kids. I'm turning them in.
So at this point your sisters all know that this has happened.
(08:49):
And what is the fair reaction tothis?
You know how families are like the telephone tree and one
person knows and the next thing you know, 50 people know?
I'm very close to my sisters, but I was disappointed in some
of the theories. So they start conjecturing about
what may have happened. So it turned out that, you know,
(09:11):
my dad wasn't my dad. So it went from everything from
rape. Mom was might have been raped
and I was like, pause that thought and ask yourself what
that might feel like from where I'm sitting.
I realize you're protecting Mom and you don't want me to think
that this side or the other, butthat's about as far South and
(09:35):
ugly. And it makes me feel not just
like I'm the bastard child, but I am because I did everything I
went back to. Wait, when was Roe V Wade
passed? Oh my God.
Oh my God. She couldn't have had an
abortion, you know, So my mind went everywhere.
What if she didn't want me? Like abortion wasn't legal.
(09:56):
And then spin, spin, spin. What if she didn't want me?
What if? What if she tried to get an
abortion? What if she was too afraid to do
an abortion? What if, what if, what if?
And so then when they came up with the rape conjecture, I was
like, don't go there. Don't make me that person that
came from a trauma. I don't want to be a trauma
(10:19):
baby. And where are you in birth order
compared to your sisters? The youngest.
And were your parents married atthe time that you were born?
So yes, so they got divorced when I was about 1 and I said to
my sisters, when all this was happening and there's all these
(10:41):
theories flying around and therewere other ones that were not
any prettier, I said to them, doany of you remember sitting at
the table? I said I was either in high
school or college. And we used to.
We were all very, very, very close.
My mom raised 5 girls on her own.
So we were very, very close. There was a lot of scarcity.
(11:05):
You know, my dad that I thought was my dad didn't play child
support. So there's a lot of scarcity.
There was probably what you could fairly call trauma
bonding. You know, where you're in the
single parent household. Back in the 60s, women weren't
supposed to be single. Not a lot of money.
Keep it behind closed doors, right?
We're going to be fine. We just stick together.
(11:28):
I said to them, don't you remember?
I was either in high school or college and we were having one
of our excuses to get together 'cause like we would get
together, you know, if the sun came up.
And we were just always gathering together, even as
adults. And I said, I remember sitting
there and somebody said something that never seemed to
fit the math. And I said, is dad really my
(11:49):
dad? And I said, and you guys got
quiet. We were very protective of my
mom. She was our savior.
Without her, we would have been on the streets.
We went in foster care like we were protective of her.
Again, a little bit of trauma bonding, but it got quiet as a
church mouse. And everybody looked at me like
I had just said the most egregious thing I could have
(12:13):
said to our mom. And none of them claimed they
remember that. And I said it was either college
or high school. And I said my take away was you
guys got quiet for one of two reasons.
Either you all knew something and no one was going to pass up
or you really thought that whatever, just my assumption, if
(12:33):
you will, was very egregious andinsulting to mom.
And I said, and I remember all that night spinning whether it
was high school or college and thinking So what is it?
Was what I said so egregious andoffensive to mom, or do they all
know something and they're not going to tell me?
And none of them claimed to remember that.
(12:54):
They're all like, I don't remember that.
I don't remember that. And they're like, what did mom
do? I said, I really don't remember.
I just remember. She looked shocked.
And I remember feeling guilty, like I had hurt her feelings.
And then I remember she got up and made an excuse to go in the
into the kitchen. And they're like, I don't
remember that at all. And you see, I have no memory of
that whatsoever. Do you believe that your sisters
(13:18):
were surprised by this information, or do you think
that they knew something even ifthey pushed it out of their
mind? I believe they were surprised,
but some of the other, I guess Ilike your word, conjectures.
Their suspicions, their theories.
My oldest sister then told me a story and I was like, why would
(13:41):
you have never told me that? I just didn't think anything of
it. I was only 8 1/2 or 9 or 10 or
whatever. I was young.
I was young, I was young. It was about a man and what She
remembers him coming over to thehouse and now she wonders if
that was him. Then she started speculating.
(14:01):
Maybe it was this. Maybe the because after my mom
and dad got divorced, like I said it was only like 1.
My mom you know did a fair amount of dating but never ever
ever got remarried. Never had a live in like always
said she would never trust a mancoming into a home with five
little girls. She was very protective of us.
Like she did not trust another man helping to raise her
(14:24):
children. Because I think my mom had
enough life experience to know in her mind what could happen if
she was to bring the wrong man into the home, you know, So she
was very protective of us. But she did do a fair amount of
dating. So then they all started
speculating about this man or this man.
And those speculations were fine.
But there's another part to the story.
(14:46):
So when my oldest sister said she remembers a man coming over,
the way I remember her telling me was that a man came over and
said, I want to see the baby. And she said she could tell even
at a young age that my mom did not want him there.
And then when I asked her like ayear ago, she's like, that's not
what I said, but that there was a man.
And he did have an accent. And like, maybe he was from, you
(15:08):
know, Poland or Romania, and he had a very strong accent.
And I thought she remembered saying that he wanted to see the
baby. But again, contextually, it
meant nothing to her. She just could tell that he
wasn't a man that mom wanted to see, unlike other dates that
might show up and my mom would be happy to go out on a date, if
you will. And then my mom passed.
(15:32):
My mom got dementia. So when all this came out.
So by the way, the other two sisters spit.
They come in and they're all half sisters.
And then my other sister took Ancestry and so she had not
taken 23 me. So then I bought an Ancestry
kit. Damn it, I wanted another
outlier. OK, I don't know.
(15:53):
I want to be the only bastard child.
They're all full siblings with each other.
They. Are and so that was the full on
Angie's gonna have an emotional meltdown or she's gonna pack it
away. So far I haven't had that
emotional meltdown. Perhaps it would be good for me.
I'm really busy packing, which goes against what I help my
(16:14):
clients with. And so two of them, after all
this happened and there's all this speculation about all the
horrible things, you know, maybeit's just me and this man or
this man came and said I want tosee the baby or maybe she was
raped and all this is going on. And I'm like, stop the noise.
Stop the noise, you're not helping me.
Then two of them said that my mom made a comment when she was
(16:36):
sick. My one sister said that she said
that my mom was crying one day and she was very confused.
And if you've ever seen dementia, you know that there's
hallucinations. There can be.
You know, the brain does crazy things, and sometimes they go
way back and you don't know what's true and what's not.
(16:57):
Or sometimes they say things about you and you go, wow, is
that what she always thought, you know?
Like. Like my one sister said that one
day my mom started crying and said she has a different mom.
And my sister kept saying no, mom, no, no, no, no, we're all
your daughters. No, no, she has a different mom.
(17:18):
And she said my mom was so frustrated.
Like, listen to me, you're not listening to me.
And my sister was like, mom, we're all your daughters.
And I was like, Laurie, why didn't you ever tell me that?
But again, she's like, no, that's, that's just in
contextually. Mom said a lot of stuff that we
(17:39):
didn't think anything up, but the other one that she said, and
this one was to my other sister,my mom would get frustrated.
The disease can be very frustrating and they can become
very agitated and they can lash out because they've lost their
sense of personal autonomy and control.
And that's one of our greatest human fears.
(17:59):
We all want to be autonomous humans.
We don't want somebody to tell us what to do, especially the
people that we raised. So one of my sisters was over
there doing the caregiving that day and I must have made my mom
mad. Usually the person who would
come over to help would make hermad 'cause she didn't want help.
So I think I might have been on my way.
And my sister said that my mom said she's got a different dad
(18:23):
and my sister goes what mom and my mom goes she has a different
dad. And my sister said she said it
like spicy mom, like the mom that we don't know, that became
spicy mom. And she goes and I was like,
mom, she does not have a different dad.
We all have the same dad. You know, we know who our dad is
and you're our mom. So to one of them, she said
(18:47):
somebody has a different mom 'cause she got confused.
And then to the other one, she had said she has a different
dad. But the whole thing of that
story isn't necessarily about who said what.
The whole thing was. It made it clear to me that she
did know. Had she passed by the time you
took your test? OK.
And so had my dad. That's not my dad.
(19:11):
OK, so you couldn't go there to ask questions?
That was probably the hardest part because I could resolve it
in my mind by saying she might have suspected but didn't know.
But the fact that she brought itup to two of them when she was
sick, when the filters are down,made me realize she, she knew.
(19:34):
And I was like, oh ow, ow, ow, she knew.
Describe how that felt. Sometimes I feel really sorry
for her because secrets are really, really they're not
healthy. Secrets aren't healthy.
And when we hold secrets, we're kind of holding trauma.
(20:00):
And when we hold trauma, we're not releasing it.
And so that's a big hold to die with the secret.
And so sometimes I feel really sorry for her that she had to
hold that secret. And sometimes I feel very, very
protective of her because on an intellectual level, as a mom, I
(20:25):
can go. I get it.
You got five daughters. Your whole world is raising
them. Your whole world is keeping a
roof over their head. Again, scarcity was very big,
very powerful day-to-day, month to month.
(20:46):
It was never enough. Not enough money, not enough
food, not enough anything. It was the 60s.
There was no child support. Women couldn't even get their
own checking account back then, right?
Like Married With, you know, like it was, it was real.
And so teachers didn't like us because we were like the bastard
children who didn't have a dad. You know, my mom worked nonstop.
(21:08):
And so part of me is like, oh, Candy.
I have so much empathy for her. A, she had to carry that story
her whole life. It probably did not serve her
with her health. But B, what would her choice
have been to tell the kid that she's the outlier?
So every holiday, potentially she's got to go with her dad,
(21:34):
while the other four get to be with mom and they get to have
this wonderful holiday. So then I got to be the kid
who's not a part of them. And I've got to grow up knowing
that that I'm the one who has a different dad.
I'm the one who doesn't belong. I'm the one who what goes and
celebrates Hanukkah while they celebrate Christmas.
(21:55):
I'm the one who she has to sharetime with.
But she gets the rest of us to herself.
After your parents, your birth certificate, father and your mom
divorced he was he completely out of your lives at that point?
No, there's some feelings about that too because he was in and
(22:20):
out. So my dad went overseas for
about 8 years for the military and he got remarried over there.
Two of my oldest sisters went tolive with him because my mom
wanted them to have an opportunity to be abroad and she
knew that that was not financially going to be
something she could ever provide.
And he had kind of offered OK, like basically like peace
(22:41):
offering. OK, I never pay Charles Ford,
but I'll take a couple of them. All right, send them over.
And so they went over. They had a great time.
They were in high school. They had such wonderful
memories. They got with the wife,
graduated over there, they had great memories.
They was good. Good for them.
Like it was great opportunity really was.
And then the next sister in linea couple years later, he said,
(23:05):
OK, I'll take a couple more. So there's a couple more.
Over. And so the next sister was 16 at
the time and she had a boyfriendand she was like, I'm not going.
And then the one under her was like, I'm definitely not going.
And then I was in like 6th grade, I'll go, but I was only
(23:25):
6th grade. So we lasted like 6 months.
And at that time you could tell my dad's second marriage was
kind of on the rocks. It was a lot of strife there.
So we went overseas for like 6 months with him and but still we
weren't like close. Like he used to scared that
Jesus out of me. Like he was just a harsh man,
not physical harsh. She was just a harsh man.
(23:47):
Like if he said eat your dinner,like you ate your dinner right,
you didn't cross him. We didn't know him.
So there was never any pushing at boundaries because you don't
really know this man. He's been in our lives, been
hourly in our lives. Like he would pick us up when we
were growing up once in a great while, like on a Sunday, and
he'd take us to my grandmother'shouse and he had a bunch of
(24:09):
brothers and they'd all like smoke and watch the the cubbies.
And then the kids would all run around and play at my
grandmother's house. So we spent some time with him
and I went over there in 6th grade and and then when I went
to go away to college, I had a lunch with him and something was
(24:29):
said in that lunch. And I remember thinking, what do
you mean by that? And, and I'm not sure I want to
unpack that right now because itit's more layered, but he said.
Something. And it made me go, and I look
back on that now and they go, oh, I wonder if, you know, the
(24:52):
problem with the personal narrative disruption is you
start making up storylines and you start trying to put a puzzle
together. But there's so many missing
pieces. I have no idea what I'm creating
and if my mind is creating things that are just so off
(25:14):
base. So I'm trying to put my
narrative back together, but I'mcreating it from a lot of
missing pieces. It's like trying to build a
house but I don't have a strong enough foundation to hold up any
wall or any theory. So what he said and the reason I
don't want to pack it is it kindof had no meaning to this
whatsoever that I'm giving it meaning.
(25:38):
Or it could have, I don't know. Yeah, it's in hindsight.
We look back at all these moments and try to think, was
that an opportunity? Was he trying to tell me
something? Was that a hint?
Totally, totally. I think that's something that I
hear over and over again. And you're not alone in that is
the the trying to make sense of just every little moment and
(26:02):
reflecting and looking back at all the little clues.
And yes, that really resonates. I'm glad I'm not the only one
that it. And it's funny, 'cause when he
said it, whether it was around the time that I said is dad, my
dad, whether that made me pause more, whatever the case, I never
(26:24):
ever forgot it. And when this happened, it
seemed like it definitely could have held some meaning.
But then what I will say is the meaning then would be that he
knew too. And I think that's what really
(26:46):
shocked me because if he knew, why was he willing to play
along? What happened?
You know, what happened, that hewas willing to play along
because he was a man's man. Like this is men in the 60s.
Like I said, he and all his brothers were divorced.
(27:06):
They were on wife number 2. They were, you know, Rico
Suave's like they, you know whatI mean?
Like they were just, oh, the egowas all there and the, you know,
I'm hot and you're not kind of saying, you know, back in.
And I was like, why would he have played along?
Because I guess I just would have thought that he wouldn't.
(27:33):
The way I understand it is they were ultimately divorced and I
was like 1, but he was gone years before that.
He was in and out. He was having affair after
affair after affair. So my theory, the way that I
resolved it was Stella got out and got her groove back one
night. Stella was like, you've been
doing this for years. I'm hot too, 'cause my mom was
(27:57):
very, very, very attractive. Very attractive.
And I was like, good. She went out one night and
thought I can do it. And that was my theory.
I liked that theory. Stella got her group back.
Yes. Stella wanted to be a man.
Stella was like, I'm tired of men having all the fun.
You're out there sleeping with everybody who will sleep with
(28:19):
you. How about I get a chance?
And then my Part B of that theory is she gets pregnant, but
he's in and out. And I know she loved him deeply
and did not want it to end. I know she did.
So my theory is he's in and out.She's not sure but she suspects.
(28:42):
Uh oh but she's not really sure.But then when all that was said
to my sisters I was like OK she is sure, she does know.
Then I look back at what he saidand I go I think he might have
known. And then I go, shit, there goes
my theory. Like, but maybe he did know, but
(29:03):
he just said OK. Like in fairness, I've been out
doing this for years, let's not do this to her.
And also, if you think about menback then and the ego in the
whole it's a man's world and youcan't even have a checkbook.
If you think about men back then, it probably would have
held his ego more intact to put his name on my birth certificate
(29:27):
than to think his wife was doingwhat he was doing.
Right. Yeah, that's totally plausible.
If there was any ego to, it would have been more names going
on there because I'm not going to let you tell the world that
you did what I'm doing. Exactly.
Yeah, I, I don't know. I just know that he didn't play
(29:47):
child support. And then there was a little bit
of guilt there, too. Like, is that what happened?
Did he not pay because he was like, OK, this is theory.
I'm going to post this story foryou, OK?
You're a man in the 60s. You got a big echo, right?
You've been out playing the field.
Now, your wife might have done what you did again.
(30:07):
No, no, no, no. That's not going to look good at
the bowling alley with all your friends.
You got to say face. You got to put your name on the
birth certificate because you don't want your buddies to know
that your wife is what you're doing.
And the other part of the theoryis, but it also is an excuse to
say I'm not paying child support.
(30:28):
Look what you did. So all of a sudden, it's like
flipping the script. But then there was a little bit
of guilt, like, am I the reason she never got child support?
Like, was he able to flip the script and point the finger at
her and be like, yeah, I'm not the only one who did it.
Look what you did. But my story is she kind of had
(30:49):
a right to do it because he was doing it for so long, for so
many years, and she loved him and he was not being a good
husband. OK, so you've, you kind of
landed on a theory that maybe makes sense.
It does make sense. You aren't necessarily going to
know. Is there anyone in your story
(31:11):
who is still alive that you can talk to?
Like aunts or uncles or cousins that may have heard gossip or
anything like that. So there's some stuff that
happens in this world that you can't make up because it's so
darn ironic. So I can tell none of my four
sisters now, right? And I again, the stuff they were
(31:35):
coming up with was just noise and it was toxic noise and it
was causing me more disruption to my emotional health.
So I had one aunt who was alive,but my mom was not close to her.
My mom had a brother and a sister.
The brother's been passed for years.
My mom and my quote dad were already passed.
So I said to my sister, I'm going to call mom's sister.
(31:58):
And my sister was like Angie, she's not going to know
anything. They weren't close at all.
She never told her anything. I was like yes, fine, that's
fine. So I call my brother-in-law
because I was like, hey, do you have her latest number?
And he goes, it is so weird thatyou called.
And I go, why? And he goes, she passed away
(32:18):
last night. I go like, are you fucking
kidding me? And he goes, why?
Like none of us were really close to her.
And I go, forget it, Just forgetit.
So I call my sister and I had like, a serious meltdown.
And I was like, shrieking. And I was like, what is it?
The, the, the minute I get closeto something, she goes, it's OK.
(32:41):
She did, she wasn't going to know anything.
And I said, but it's just so ironic.
I finally get the courage to call her and she literally
passed away the night before. And she was like super old.
So I called her daughter and I was like, hey, here's the deal.
And her daughter said, Oh my gosh, Angie, I don't have words.
I'm, I'm truly shocked she goes,no, I, I guarantee you my mom
(33:04):
didn't know. And she's like, I loved your mom
so much like your mom loved you guys.
I just never would have expectedthat.
So that weren't that one. So we're going through our like
mental Rolodex and I said, I'm going to call mom's best friend.
She's still alive. So I called her one night.
(33:27):
She claimed on her life she didn't know anything.
She said I met your mom when youwere four.
We met at a department store. We worked at Turnstile together.
You were already like 4. Your mom never said anything.
She said. I swear, Angie, she never said a
word. And she goes.
I feel like she would have told me, but your mom was pretty
(33:47):
private. Did you reach out to anyone else
trying to get clues or was her best friend your last stop in
people in her life? No, there's one more.
So my oldest daughter was very interested when all this first
happened. So she does a lot of digging
(34:08):
initially. She gets very invested in it for
a short period of time and she makes a treat and she gets it
down and she's like, she could tell the grandparents, she could
tell there were eight kids, She could tell who had gotten
married. And then there was 1 outlier,
one man who had not gotten married.
We could trace them back to where we grew up.
(34:29):
We could trace them back to whatthey did.
I found the obituary of the one who never got married, but he
would have been like 25 years older than my mom.
And I was like, oh, mom was young.
She was super hot, super attractive, like she would have
never been like now and then. Like we know what they did.
We know what they owned, we knowtheir business.
(34:53):
And it said in there that he loved to dance.
And it named a specific place that he used to love to go
dancing. Well, that's where my mom always
went dancing. So about a year ago, I said to
my one sister who I talked the most about, I said I'm calling
(35:13):
this gentleman who is my mom's friend.
He is the spouse of my mom's other best friend, my mom's
other best friend, like like 20 years ago.
I call him up and I get right tothe point and he immediately
says, Oh yeah, I know that story.
Evelyn told me that was his ex-wife.
And they said, huh? So mom told Evelyn.
(35:34):
Yeah, Yeah. And I go, well, mom was super
private. I'm kind of surprised that if
mom told Evelyn, she would tell you.
He goes, we were married. It was pillow talk.
That was literally, quote, UN quote.
So I said, OK, then who is it? Oh, I don't know.
OK, so you know, I have a different dad.
(35:55):
You know the whole story, but you allegedly don't know who.
Yes. I don't know.
I go. Huh.
I'm struggling with that. Oh, it's in the past, Angie.
Just you need to let it go. It's in the past.
And so, you know, there's something I've learned.
I can go the rest of my life without somebody telling me how
I should feel or what I should do about my own personal story.
(36:18):
And trust me when I tell you I'mgoing to try not to tell you how
you should feel about things. Well, now I pissed him off.
So I try to soften the conversation a little bit, and
then he starts giving me BS. He's like, well, you know,
there's this man, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. And he starts to build this
whole story about this guy that he knew that he had introduced
(36:39):
my mom to and that they were pretty smitten with each other.
And it might be him. And I was like, is he Jewish?
No, no, but it could be him. I go, it's not going to be him
if he's not Jewish. Well, I'm going to call him
anyway. I go, no, don't call him.
We're not telling anybody. My sisters don't want me to tell
anybody. They, they feel like that's a
(37:00):
disservice to mom, like I'm outing mom because that was the
other thing. They didn't want me to tell
anybody. I wasn't supposed to talk about
it and that. And so finally I got to a point
where I thought, you don't get to tell me not to tell my story.
So I finally was like, I'm not doing this anymore.
I'm not playing. I'm not going to do this just
because you think I shouldn't talk about it because you think
(37:22):
it might put mom in whatever light.
I'm sorry. This is my story.
So he then builds this narrativeabout how it could be this one
guy. So he goes, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
give him a call. I'm gonna give him a call right
now. So of course, he doesn't call me
back. I call him a couple weeks later.
Oh, yeah, I call him. I call him.
He said it's not him. They go, yeah, well, I probably
(37:42):
could have told you that because, again, he's not Jewish.
So I said, well, OK, there's a man.
He used to go dancing or mom used to go dancing, and I named
the place the place. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember him.
I go, you too. Oh, they used to love to dance.
They were both great dancers. They were show stoppers.
(38:04):
Like they used to love to go dancing together.
I bet it is. And I said, well, he was a lot
older, yeah, yeah. But he wasn't married.
And that was as much as I got. That's the furthest I've gotten.
There's other parts to the storythat go into what I found on
23andMe, but as far as reaching out to people, that's all I had.
(38:30):
OK, OK. Now you have connections on
23andMe. What happens with those and what
was your closest connection? There's a gentleman who shows up
as my closest connection and then there's another girl and I
can't remember what it is, what their relationship is.
(38:53):
And I reach out to him. I message him on 23andMe and he
says my daughter used to work for 23andMe.
These stories happen all the time.
It's very sad and I quote but just be happy.
Grew up in a good home. So once again someone telling me
how to feel that it was all I could do not to send a few
choice words back to him and saythank you for me.
(39:15):
Explaining to me how I should feel and how I'm just so lucky
that I grew up in a good home. When you don't know what I grew
up in. Yes it was a good home, but you
don't know that. It's presumptuous.
It's like, don't tell me what I should or shouldn't feel or I
should just be happy. And so I said, look, this has to
do with health issues 'cause it really does.
(39:37):
Like, I wanna know, does that side have dementia?
Does that side have heart disease?
I wanna know because I know whatmy mom's side has.
I know there's heart disease, there's dementia.
I wanna know what this side has.And he gave me a heart shot
down. I mean, be happy, feel this way.
You had a good home. Go away, little girl.
(39:59):
I mean, it was clear. Then he hides his tree.
So I emailed the other girl. I don't hear back for a long
time. Then I hear back and she says,
you know, we all got together for the holidays and we were
talking about it and we think there's only one person it could
be because we've never heard anystories and it's the guy who was
(40:19):
never married. In other words, we needed to be
him because none of us want to think it was our time.
Right. Right, so low hanging fruit.
Gotta be that guy, the guy who'snot married 'cause it definitely
ain't gonna be my dad or grandpa.
And then she hides her tree and I was like those bitches because
(40:41):
I'm 60, I'm fine, I'm established.
I don't want anybody's money. Jesus Christ.
I just want to know my health. I want to know who he is.
I want to know what happened, ifthere's anybody who knows.
And I want to know what my health risks are.
Is her heart disease? Is her dementia?
What are the big things I shouldwatch out for?
Like Ashkenazi Jewish, very highrisk for breast cancer.
(41:03):
Hey, I might have wanted to knowthat.
So there was one other girl. She's pretty far down.
She was the only one who was lovely.
And she goes, do you want me to ask my dad?
My dad knows nothing and it's pretty far removed.
So she's like, I would talk to you anytime if you want to just
hop on a call. And I never did follow through
because I'm thinking she's so far over on the tree.
(41:27):
I feel like it would just be telling a story that exhausts me
but not really getting anywhere.But she was lovely.
I just don't think she has any information.
Have you done anything else to get any closer or is that kind
of where it ends in terms of figuring it out?
It really ends there. I know there's DNA angels.
(41:49):
I had a girl on my show and she has a podcast.
She is a researcher and does a lot with DNA.
And I also reached out to another DNA person and both of
them were like to tell more men test and basically yours being
that far back. And if it was this guy that
(42:11):
every that seems to be the most suspect of the low hanging
fruit. He passed when my youngest
daughter was born. He's been dead for years because
again, he was like 25 years older than my mom.
And so he had no kids, no spouse.
So there's no one there. I have a feeling those two
people who shot me out know something or have some
(42:31):
suspicion. I mean outside is showing up at
their door one day making them super uncomfortable and finding
out where they live and then potentially getting arrested and
being a stalker. Which don't get me wrong I think
about daily trust me I do. But or hiring DNA angels just to
see? How have you I guess come to
(42:52):
terms with or not the fact that you do have so many questions
still? I think.
I haven't. I think even though I teach
clients and people that you can't hack it away, that again,
it's like a leaky faucet. It's it's leaking, but I think
(43:14):
it exhausts me both ways. It's it's like emotionally
depleting. It's almost like not reaching
out means that there still couldbe hope.
But if you reach out and they shut you down, there's 0 hope.
So maybe it's me not reaching out or pursuing.
This is my way of protecting my heart.
(43:37):
Because if they say hard no, we can't get anywhere, then I have
to face that I'll never ever know.
But by not pursuing it, my psyche can say, oh, if you
really want to know, you'll findout.
If you really want to know, you'll find out.
But I think that there's a part of me that knows that that's
probably not true. And so me doing that and then
(44:00):
realizing I'm never going to know is the finality that I
don't have to face by not pursuing it, if that makes
sense. Yeah, that does make sense.
It's like it's protective. Yeah, I think it is, but it's
not doing me any favors. It's not at all.
But I think it is sort of protective because I'm so afraid
(44:21):
they're going to say there's no hope.
So there are no siblings to be found that you know of, right?
I mean, there could always be someone else out there, but to
your knowledge she doesn't have any other children.
That's what I keep hoping for. I keep hoping I'm going to open
up 23 and me one day and I'm going to find a sibling that is
(44:41):
almost like a dream, like he hadanother baby somewhere.
You mentioned earlier that you maybe haven't let yourself feel
that full emotional breakdown around it.
Do you still feel that in there?Have you processed it in some
other way? 10 years is a long time, so how
(45:01):
are you moving through this? I think when you're in a dark
spot about something in your life, all the other dark spots
do a pile on. So usually when I'm stressed or
I'm hurt or there's something else big going on in my life, my
brain doesn't pile on. And it goes into the you don't
(45:23):
even belong in your own family. She didn't even want you.
She couldn't have had an abortion.
Even if she wanted to have an abortion, she couldn't.
She didn't even want you. You don't even belong.
You weren't even meant to be here.
And it goes to like the most horrific dark spaces.
(45:44):
And it's like, where do you fit in?
Because you're like a square pigin a round hole.
You don't fit into your biological family.
Because that is an interesting part of it, too, is my sister
who's next to me and lying said to me, one day, I hope you don't
mind me saying this. And I said, well, now you got to
say it. She goes, it makes so much
(46:07):
sense. And I go, what do you mean?
And she goes, look at you and then look at us.
She's like, you went out there, you got a degree, you got a
master's degree. You like moved away, you went to
college. You, you, you sort of like
created this big life. And she goes and the rest of us
(46:28):
did it. And you've always been
different. Like you've always been way more
driven, more confident, more outgoing.
You just have been different. It's true you would not pick me
and my sisters out from the lineup and put us together.
And it is true I am extremely different from all of them.
(46:49):
I am much more driven. I am much more independent.
I am the only one who moved away.
I am the first one who went to college.
I'm just different. And it definitely does make
sense in that way. But my mind can go to some
really dark spaces about being asquare pig in a round hole.
What would you say is next for you?
(47:12):
I need to give myself a hard deadline and say, OK, you got to
call DNA angels, you got to justfill out the paperwork, you got
to do it. Stop denying it.
I know it's protected, but it's not helping.
And you really should just see. And if you find out that there's
nothing to find out, at least you'll know and you can put it
(47:33):
to rest. So I think that's probably
what's next. And then hopefully connect with
other people. In my situation, I always
believe that you take your pain and you get a purpose.
So whether that means that I runa support group or I speak at a
conference where people are struggling, I think I've been in
(47:56):
the shadows for so long. I've been hiding for so many
years now, 10 years now, that maybe it's time that I come out
of the shadows and use my experience to help other people.
I just never really knew if it was a story worth sharing
because I don't have any answers.
So I was like, my story's boring.
I don't have any answers. No, but as I always say,
(48:16):
everyone is at a different point.
And I think, you know, I get messages from people all the
time talking about how they heard some story or they heard
some nugget from some story, whether it's very similar to
theirs or different. But it, it helped them.
And I think that it is helpful for people to hear that there's
(48:36):
somebody else who doesn't have answers, that they're not alone,
that not everybody uncovers every scrap of information.
I hope that you do get your answers and that the DNA angels
or someone else is able to help you find him.
But your story is absolutely worth telling whether or not you
know for sure at this point. Yeah, I guess that.
(48:58):
I was just thought it would be too boring.
There's no closure. It's not wrapped up in a pretty
package. It's not a Hallmark story.
It doesn't end with my family embracing me and being like, Oh
my God, we've been hoping you would come forward.
They don't, though they don't always end up that way.
What advice do you have for someone who may be keeping adna
surprise from their child? 1st, I want to say that I have a
(49:21):
ton of compassion and empathy because again, I can see where
it's a very difficult space because you don't want that kid
to be the one kid, you know? Like in my situation, I can't
imagine that my mom would have wanted me to be that kid who had
to leave on the holidays and be away from all of us.
That would have made me always feel like I didn't belong.
And now I already feel like I don't belong, but at least I
(49:43):
didn't have to feel like that growing up.
That's just my ugly parts telling me I don't belong, but
at least I meant to grow up experiencing that.
So I would just say wait it out and at some point, maybe when
your child gets older, find a time.
Because I don't think dying witha secret is a good thing.
I think that secrets never stay secrets.
(50:05):
Somehow, someway, secrets never stay secrets.
And if you die with that secret,you risk that your child will
resent you for the rest of your life.
I don't resent my mom. I feel a lot of empathy for her,
but I also feel a lot of pain for me.
I feel a lot of tremendous pain for me.
But I think my mom is lucky thatI don't resent her 'cause I
think there's probably a lot of people who do.
(50:27):
So don't spend all those years raising your child trying to be
a good parent. Only two.
When you're gone and you don't have answers and you can't
defend yourself, have your childcome up with all these stories
that could be so far from the truth and then risk that they
could resent you for the rest oftheir lives.
And not to mention you're reallygoing to mess them up
psychologically. And what advice do you have for
someone who just uncovered Adna surprise?
(50:50):
Get support. There are people in my life who
I wanted to support me who did not, were not able, or were not
willing. But some of my friends were
amazing. But I usually use humor, so
humor is always my defense. So I called a few of my friends,
like who I knew were Jewish. We had a good laugh and they
sent me some funny stuff and it was all ha ha ha.
(51:12):
But there was pain underneath that.
But humor helped me to go get some support.
Sometimes people dismiss what they don't know or what feels
too heavy for them. And so sometimes even your
closest people are going to disappoint you because they
don't have the tools or they don't understand why it would
(51:34):
bother you. They don't, they just don't get
it. They're like, oh, whatever, like
they're dead, who cares? Like you had a good growing up.
Go back to what I said, a personal narrative disruption.
It makes you question your wholelife.
Every single piece of your history is in question.
Every single holiday, every story, every memory is in
(51:56):
question about the reality versus the truth.
How much of that was real and how much of that was people
hiding or keeping something fromyou?
It disrupts everything you thought about your childhood.
So you need to get support. And if I'm going to be just very
frank about something, I'm angrywith these testing companies.
(52:17):
They put the cart before the horse.
I'm angry. And that's where I do get angry
and spicy and I go off on my bandwagon.
How dare they offer all these testing services and they they
open up Pandora's box, but they offer no services for
psychological Wellness and, you know, helping people who might
(52:38):
really not be able to cope with this.
Shame on these companies. Shame on these companies for
putting it out there and then just making people deal with the
aftermath. I completely agree.
I have written and passioned emails to 23andMe and Ancestry
(52:59):
because I think that leaving links on their website and like
an e-mail of here's a list of four thing you know websites to
go to for support is not enough.It's not new.
That wasn't even there before. It wasn't there before.
I want to say within the last few years.
I really feel like they should have departments of well-being
(53:21):
providers. I realized they might not be
able to be like licensed counselors for people, but
somebody to really support people in those initial moments
because it's so raw. It is so raw before you can, you
know, connect them to a professional or something in
their area. But there needs to be more than
just this happened sometimes. So sorry.
Here's a link that's. Yeah, because it's like a
(53:43):
suicide hotline, like you need immediate, to your point
resources. Angie, thank you so much for
joining me on the podcast and sharing your story.
I know that you weren't sure if your story was worth telling, so
to speak, because you don't haveall the answers.
But I think that that makes yourstory just as powerful as anyone
else's. And I hope that you do get the
(54:05):
answers that you're looking for.Thank you.
Thank you for having me on. Thanks again to Angie for
sharing her story. If you have Adna surprise that
you'd like to share, submit yourstory at dnasurprises.com and
for early add free access to episodes, join me over on
patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.
(54:28):
Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises
was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt.
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording
Studios.
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