James' DNA Surprise

DNA surprises often lead to answers - the truth about parentage, insights into family dynamics, clarity about the past. Still, as I often say, they also leave us with questions. Questions that may never be answered. But what if something as simple as a birthdate was unknown to you, possibly forever? 

Welcome to the season 12 finale of DNA Surprises. In this week’s episode, I’m joined by James, a foundling adoptee who was abandoned in a church in the 1970s. James always knew he was adopted, although he didn’t learn the circumstances until he was an adult. Then, with the combined power of research, DNA testing, and a little luck, he learned much more about where - and who - he came from. 

We’ll be back in 2026 with brand new DNA surprise stories. But before I sign off, I want to thank you for listening. DNA surprises recently crossed 1 million downloads, something I never imagined when I started this podcast nearly four years ago. Thank you for your reviews, Patreon support, emails, and messages. It means so much. But most importantly, thank you for listening.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I was in the front page of the newspaper.
I was on radio stations. They put out articles and
newspapers saying if you are theparents of this abandoned boy,
happened on this such and such date, your parental rights are
going to be dismissed on this day if you don't show up.
So I got all the court records of the day.
I became a ward of the state because no parent showed up.

(00:22):
Parents, John Doe, Baby Doe or all that.
So now I've got all the paperwork.
Got it. It's only paperwork.
But everything from the night I was found up until I was adopted
out of foster care. And then I got that information
from my adoptive parents. What I still don't have is my

(00:43):
birth date. Like when was I actually born?
All that information. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a
podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA
discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.
In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out

(01:05):
that I'm an NPE, a person who has experienced a non paternal
event. In other words, my biological
father isn't who I thought he was.
Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and
donor conceived people and theirfamilies.
Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin

(01:28):
with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises.
DNA Surprises often lead to answers.
The truth about parentage, insights into family dynamics,
clarity about the past. Still, as I often say, they also

(01:49):
leave us with questions, Questions that may never be
answered. What if something as simple as a
birth date was unknown to you, possibly forever?
Welcome to the Season 12 finale of DNA Surprises.
In this week's episode, I'm joined by James, a foundling

(02:09):
adoptee who was abandoned at a church in the 1970s.
James always knew he was adopted, although he didn't
learn the circumstances until hewas an adult.
Then, with the combined power ofresearch, DNA testing, and a
little bit of luck, he learned much more about where and who he

(02:31):
came from. Thank you for sharing your
story, James. James, 47, just last week and
from Minnesota. Happy birthday.
Thank you. I'm a foundling.
I was abandoned at a church at about a so I say my birthday was
last week. There is no definite answer.

(02:53):
It could be this week. It was approximately 10 days old
when they found me at a church. For people who don't know what a
foundling is, that is when a baby is relinquished or I don't
know what word you would use. You would use abandoned, OK.
You would use that word, OK whena baby is abandoned at a

(03:15):
hospital, church or anywhere really, and found and then put
up for adoption. So you were adopted.
And tell me more about that. Yep, so I've always knew I was
adopted. My parents always told me you're
adopted. I have a older brother that's
adopted as well. My parents were told that they
weren't able to have kids, so they adopted my older brother.

(03:38):
They adopted me and then biologically had a younger
brother by mistake. Kind of like they weren't
supposed to have kids but they were able to have one.
So I'm the middle child. But yeah, I've always told I was
adopted, even to the point wherein 3rd grade I remember telling
my classmates I wasn't born, I was adopted.
So I didn't quite understood what adoption meant, but.

(04:02):
So it's always a part of your story.
Yep, as far as I as long as I can remember.
Did you understand that you had biological parents or birth
parents somewhere out in the world, or when did that become
clear to you? That probably came, you know,
later, probably, you know, ten, 11-12 years old when you
understand what adoption is. My parents always told me they

(04:26):
would help search for my parents.
They said you're adopted, and ifyou ever want to find your birth
parents, we'll help you. But they always said there's a
very slim chance of being able to find them because I was not
told I was abandoned until I turned 18.
They didn't give any informationabout, you know, how it was.

(04:46):
It's just that I was adopted. And so when I turned 18, that's
when they told me. They sat me down and told me the
story they were told by the adoption agency to keep it hush
hush until I turn 18, just in case the wrong people hear it.
And I don't know if there is even a chance for biological

(05:08):
family to come back and claim me, but just in case the wrong
person heard the story and, you know, go from there.
What was it like when you found out then that you were a
foundling and the circumstances around your adoption?
It didn't really, you know, affect me.
Like I said, they're, they were my parents.
They got me when I was 8 months old.

(05:29):
So I was in foster care for eight months prior to that.
I just kind of put in the back of my mind at that time, it
didn't really affect me one way or the other until later on life
when got married before we had kids.
I should really, like, maybe seeif there's a story out there or

(05:50):
anything, because my mom did tell me that they seen an
article in their newspaper aboutthis child being abandoned at
the church down in Minneapolis. And she had contacted their
social worker and said, hey, what are the chances we could
get that baby? Because they were already in the
process of adopting the second child.
And they said, well, we'll see what we can do and we'll go from

(06:12):
there. And they were able to eventually
get me. I go, well, OK, do you remember
what newspaper it was? And she thought said it was her
home paper. But when I search, I could never
find it. I knew I was born in August in
1978. And I knew I came from, I was
born in Minneapolis. And that's where the church I

(06:33):
was I was left at. So I just asked our local
library for the micro fish of the Star Tribune in the Saint
Paul Pioneer Press. And I just started going through
all of August and all of September and September 1st
article, front page of the Star Tribune.
There I am on the front page article.

(06:55):
Wow, so you are a front page story.
Yep, no picture, but it's right underneath is the state fair's
happening in Minnesota at that time.
Right below the State Fair article it says baby infant
abandoned at church, left on doorstep.
How did that feel to see that inreal prints like black and
white? So that was, it was like, OK, I
made the front page of the newspaper.

(07:16):
Not how I thought I would make it, but it was kind of cool.
And it was a part of my history that I didn't have from like the
start of my life that I could have a copy of.
So I read the article and I got a couple other copies of it from
different newspapers around Minnesota and it's said in there

(07:37):
that, you know, the child was left on August 30th.
So it's coming up on 47 years this Saturday.
They think it was about a 10 day, 14 day old baby left in the
doorway. I was left that night with a
bottle, some diapers and a bag of clothes, kind of like a

(07:58):
onesie and stuff like that. And the bag was like a
department store bag from Maryland.
So we'll circle back to that later in the story, but just
keep that on the on the mind. So then I reached out to
Lutheran Social services cuz that's who did my adoption with
my parents. And I had asked, hey, do you

(08:18):
have any paperwork or any kind of thing involving my file?
So this was back in 2006. And they sent me back a baptism
certificate that I was baptized that night at the church and
kind of like a day-to-day what Idid with the foster care I was
in for eight months. But then it also had a like a

(08:41):
little write up from that night and I was taken to the local
hospital. It says in the notes that the
doctor said, well, this child needs a birth certificate.
And by looking at the lines on his feet and the weight and
everything, I'm going to approximate it.
August 21st the birth certificate was issued for
August 20th 1978, so that's the birth date I go by.

(09:04):
But when I found out back then that there is no definite date,
I call it a birthday week, so I celebrate all week.
Well, that's not too bad, is it?Giving a week.
OK, All right, so this really starts your journey in
uncovering where you came from. What happens next?

(09:25):
So that's in 2006. Got the paperwork from Luton's
social services and it was very minimal.
Like it had the baptism certificate and just some write
up. So the baptism certificate was
actually signed by the pastor there.
So I didn't do much with it in 2008 and I just put it on the

(09:46):
back burner. It's like, OK, that's part of my
history, let's just go with it. Well then and we're going to
Fast forward to 2019 because that's when it kick starts into
full gear. I've got two kids and we kind of
like we should know some medicalhistory and stuff like that.
So me know in my past, it's like, OK, I have no medical

(10:08):
history. I've told my doctors, I've done
my health checkup. They goes, hey, what's your
medical history? Well, it starts with me.
I have nothing. And then 2019 I reached out to
that pastor. I found him on Facebook, on an
e-mail, emailed him and he replied back saying he was kind
of curious. He's like, I, I want some more

(10:29):
in depth information, kind of like fishing, like who is this
really? Are you really the child?
So I told him everything. He goes, yeah, you are the kid.
I remember that. I think it was probably late
2018. I took a 23 andme DNA test, the
one with the medical history part of it.
Took the test, checked my medical history, nothing that

(10:50):
stuck out real much. And then on where it gave the
matches, I didn't have anyone closer than a second cousin
three times removed or not. Nothing in particular.
So then someone suggested you should do Ancestry.
So I did that in 2019 because they have a bigger database of

(11:11):
people. Again, the closest person was
like a second cousin, probably alegit second cousin, nothing
removed. But so I reached out to that
person and through Ancestry and heard nothing back.
So then I looked down through some other matches.
So then I jumped from the secondcousin down to her thirds and

(11:34):
fourths, messaged a couple and Igot a reply on like a third
cousin that says, well, I can see that we match on her
father's side. She goes, you come from here,
but we're from a different state, too distant to see, you
know, exactly who my father would have been and stuff like

(11:54):
that. So that was in 2019.
You know, I didn't get any headway there.
So then I more or less again putit on pause till 2023.
How are you managing with these pauses?
Because sometimes people are like full speed ahead.

(12:17):
They want to find all of the information they can and and
they will not rest until they do.
And then I talked to other people who sometimes there are
510 or more years between, you know, a revelation or between
like a kind of a Sprint to try to get as much information as
they can. Are you thinking about it a lot

(12:39):
during this time or is it just something that kind of comes and
goes? Well, so it kind of comes and
goes, but then COVID happened in2020, so I had a bunch of time
to sit around and I kind of dabbled back into the Ancestry
side of it because I had more matches on Ancestry.
So I started putting piercing together.
We know you can call it a familytree, but I'd have to start way

(13:02):
up on great, great, great grandparents.
And I didn't know where I was even going on that.
So I'd put it on pause, come back, dabble here and there, but
nothing really. I've got busy with life again
and stuff like that with kids being active until 2023.
It's like, OK, I want to sit down and go through these names

(13:24):
and see what I can find. Cuz then I started listening to
other podcasts about, hey, I've been finding relatives through
this way. So in 2023, this is probably
February, I have seen these two names pop up on the ancestry

(13:47):
side like multiple times. Oh, there's a third cousin with
it. There's another third cousin and
they were both, they turned out to be the father's side and the
mother's side. It's like those those two names
kept appearing. I said, OK, well, I'm going to
see if I can Google all this information.

(14:08):
So did the father's side. And that's couldn't, you know,
find much information. There's it's not a common name,
but it's not an uncommon name either.
The mother's name was not a verycommon name up around where
we're from. It's like, that's an interesting
name. So I Googled it.

(14:29):
Actually I Facebooked it, the two names put together and this
one account came up. It was a lady and heard the last
name. She went by these both last
names like so they're like hyphenated.
I said, well, that's interesting.
She's got both last names that are in my family tree.

(14:49):
So I reached out to her. I sent her a Facebook message.
You know how Facebook works where if you're not friends it
goes into a spam folder. So I just messaged her on there.
I said hey, I have no idea who you are, I'm adopted, but you
happen to have both last names that are in my family tree.
I would just love to talk to youor message you and see you know

(15:10):
what do you know? No reply.
So then I googled that name and found AI hope was an e-mail
address. So I emailed this lady, gave her
the same spiel. Hey, you have the same last
names and that are my family tree.
You know anything about this? So that was in February 2023.

(15:32):
It went about a month and then Igot a reply from this lady and
it was how the reply was. Me and my wife looked at like it
looks like lawyer speak. Like it wasn't like how you
would just reply to an e-mail. It looked like lawyer speak
because it said we understand that you're looking for some

(15:54):
ancestry. We know that ancestry DNA can
give answers, but people may notwant to be bothered about this
or answer questions. So please do not reach out to us
again going forward or anyone inour family.
And they gave both last names. No one in either of these

(16:15):
families. Do not reach out to them going
forward. How did that feel?
So I thought OK I hit someone close here.
I still at that point no idea who it was.
So I said to myself OK you're someone close.
So I'm going to reply back assuming that you're someone
close to me or know the story orsomething.

(16:36):
So I just reply back hey sorry to bother you.
Going forward, I won't reach outto anyone that I shouldn't, but
I was just looking for medical history because I have nothing.
And if you have any kind of information that would be great.
So then it went about another month, so we're back into like
April with a reply and the replywas like 3 sentences.

(17:02):
We have this in our family, thisin our family, this in our
family, and that's it. There's no greeting, no like
talk to you like, no like, no nothing.
Just three sentences from a hidden e-mail address.
So yeah, you're close. Yep.
So I started doing more in research on that person,
starting to put together my family tree off of her because

(17:26):
you can find, if they're old enough, you can find all
information on an ancestry with birth records, yearbooks, all
that. So I put her together and then
found, you know, through online stuff who her husband at the
time is put them together. He has a other last name that
was in my family tree. I say, I think I found them.

(17:49):
So then I reached out to, I justput a post on ancestry message
board asking if anyone kind of like Adna Angel can help just
verify my family tree I have. So this lady reaches out to me.
She goes, Yep, she goes, just give me your access and I'll
look through it. And within I think 24 hours she
goes, yes, that's, that's your parents.

(18:11):
And she put together a whole family tree for me that went
back, you know, 3-4 generations.Wow.
I can only imagine the differentfeelings that you must have had
in that moment because you've identified who these people are,
but also they've expressed that they don't want you to contact
them or their family. So what are you thinking at that

(18:34):
point? Like what do you want to do with
that information? So I it's like, OK, so I got my
family tree. I researched and I guessed it
correctly who these two people are when I had messaged her on
Facebook, then emailed her and then she's kind of said don't go
forward message anyone. She blocked me on Facebook.
So that was another another marksaying OK, I'm close.

(18:56):
So with being blocked, I did some more research on ancestry
to say, OK, is there siblings related?
Does she have siblings? Does he have siblings?
So that was in, you know, April 2023.
I went through the summer of 2023 just hardcore Googling,
researching. I threw just threw records that

(19:19):
is public. Found out that they got married
eight months after I was born and proceeded to have two more
children and that they're still married today and have two sons.
How does that feel? How did that feel to read that?
It's like, OK, well, I can understand.
Well, at that time it's like, OK, I was given up why or

(19:42):
abandoned why or whatever. But then it's like I have two
full siblings out there that I didn't know about and I'm
guessing they had no idea about me.
And you're biological parents were together?
Yeah, and married. Stayed together and got married.
That's not the story that I think many people imagine, right

(20:05):
in these kinds of circumstances.So it's like, OK, we found your
parents. You have two siblings out there.
She's telling you not to reach out to anyone.
So I honored that for a bit. It's like, OK, we're complete
strangers. I'm guessing no one knows that I

(20:26):
was abandoned at a church in your family.
So I just I won't touch it by just I continued research
through the summer of 2023, trying to put together their
siblings. So my aunts and uncles.
So I got this whole family tree and found OK, I got a aunt and

(20:46):
uncle on one side and aunt and uncle on the other side.
They're still living. And then they, you know, they
got kids would be my cousins. So 2023 I said, you know what,
I'll go around her. I'm not going to reach out to
the sibling, my full blood siblings yet because I don't
want to disrupt the family dynamic, but I just want to know

(21:09):
about if the their siblings knowabout anything.
So what I did was I found that my birth father has a sister who
has a couple sons. My aunt wasn't active on social
media and so can't reach out that way.

(21:32):
Well, her son is so August 30th of 2023, I'm Facebook messaged
this guy saying Hey, is your mother so and so?
I think she's my aunt. These people are my
grandparents. I didn't say who I thought my

(21:52):
parents were. I just said, your mother's my
aunt and I think we share grandparents.
So again, no, no idea where thismessage is going to go or how
long it will be. It was literally like a day and
a half. Two days later, I'm heading to
the golf course. I get a Ding on my phone and
it's a message. I always get choked up about

(22:13):
this one. But he goes, hey, nice to hear
from you. We need to talk.
Can you call me? I always said, what a strange
reply to a stranger, that hey, nice to hear from you, We need
to talk. It's like interesting, OK.
Like he was expecting you or something.

(22:34):
Exactly. So I said, OK, let's I'll call
you on such and such day. So it was September 1st actually
of 2023. He called me and then he goes,
I've known about you for 11 years.
He goes, I don't know who you were or where you were, but my

(22:57):
mother told me when her husband was was dying or died, she goes,
hey, if anything happens, you have another cousin out there.
It's my brother's son. He was put up for adoption, but
that's all the information they had.
So he told me that I said you were under the impression I was

(23:19):
put up for adoption. He goes, yeah, I said, well, I
wasn't I was abandoned at the church and I got the front page
of the newspaper to prove it. I got papers from the social
services to prove I was abandoned.
He goes, that's very interesting.
So then we we talked for about 45 minutes to an hour about my

(23:40):
birth father's side of the family.
And he goes, well, I'm going to talk to my mom and I'll get back
to you here. So he went that night.
He couldn't even wait to tell her that I had reached out.
So he just drove down the block to his mom and said, hey, James
reached out. He's alive, lives in Minnesota,

(24:01):
but he wasn't put up for adoption.
He was abandoned at a church. And what was her reaction?
So she was under the assumption.What I've learned later is so my
birth father told her that they were pregnant, they're going to
put him, put me up for adoption and supposedly a doctor and his

(24:22):
wife was going to adopt me and that was the end of the story.
How old were they when they? So my birth mother would have
been 22 and my birth father havebeen 20-3 ish.
Not old, but not young either. No.
Did they explain why they were going to relinquish you for
adoption? They weren't married at the time

(24:45):
and I don't know, my aunt told me that they probably wouldn't
have been able to afford a childat that time.
So. So she always knew about it but
never said anything to anyone because I think he had asked
her, hey, don't say anything. But when her husband was dying,
she told her son, hey, in case someone reaches out, there is a

(25:09):
cousin out there. OK.
All right. Does she have any desire to
speak to you or talk to you or? Of course they they wanted to.
So they live down in southern United States, a ways away.
So my cousin was kind of like the go between the mediator.

(25:31):
We got emailing together, talking on the phone together
for a while. And he goes, well, my mother
would really like to talk to you.
So we set up a call and I calledand we called and we talked.
So she filled me in about my birth father growing up, how he
was as a boy, my grandparents ontheir side, all that stuff.

(25:53):
And she said if her parents would have known about me, I
would have never been put up foradoption.
How did you feel hearing that? Would you say that you had a
good childhood growing up? Yeah, I didn't have any qualms
about my being raised typical Midwestern raised, all that

(26:13):
stuff, no issues of any kind. I was fine with it.
And I, it's still even to this day, the adoption part of it, or
even now I know the amendment part.
It doesn't bother me. It's just part of me.
But knowing that some people knew about it but didn't know
about it per SE, and that knowing that the grandparents

(26:33):
would have never let it happen if they would have known that.
There was a it's complicated, right, because it's like you,
but it's the what ifs. But then you also, you know,
like you said, you had a good childhood, LED you to where you
are now. It's it's a complex sort of
thing to to process. OK, so you learned this about

(26:57):
your grandparents. I'm I hopefully I'm not fast
forwarding so you can slow me down if I if I am.
But I'm really curious to know, does she reach out to her
brother at any point? My cousin came to Minnesota
Mother's Day weekend of 2023 andhe met with my father at their

(27:19):
place. He goes, hey, I'm coming back
for a wedding, I want to stop byyour place and just catch up.
So he did that and he pulled my father aside and went outside
and said, hey, your son James reached out to us, my mother,
your sister, my mother know about it and he would like to

(27:42):
meet you possibly. And what are your thoughts on
that? So I think that took him kind of
by shock that oh, I'm out there and I found them type thing
because at this moment I don't. I've been only communicating
with my birth mother by by thosetwo emails.
We've come to the conclusion sheprobably never filled my birth

(28:04):
father in that I reached out because when my cousin brought
it up, he was kind of like, oh really?
He asked to see a picture of me,asked to see where I if asked
where I lived, if I was in stillin Minnesota or around and my
cousin goes, he would really like to meet you guys.

(28:25):
He goes nothing formal, just hey, just to check in.
He goes well, I'll have to checkwith my wife to see if that's
OK. Do you think that he knew what
happened to you? I knew.
Yep. So after that meeting with my
cousin and my birth father, we kind of kicked it into some more

(28:48):
high gear. I reached out to them before
that Mother's Day meeting. I had sent an e-mail message to
both my birth father and my birth mother. e-mail addresses,
right? Describing what I did, what I
found out, who you are, who I am, and what the story is.

(29:08):
That was before that Mother's Day thing.
And when I addressed the letter in there, it was just an e-mail
letter. I had said, Hey, I hope I have
your e-mail addresses right. Well she replied back to me
saying hey don't reach out to usanymore.
Don't. This is intrusive.
How do you think we feel about this?

(29:29):
Don't reach out to our kids. Oh and that e-mail address of my
husband's is wrong. Well it wasn't the wrong e-mail
address because my cousin had just used it.
So then we were thinking she hasto be jumping into his emails
and maybe deleting these recordsor anything.
We can't. We don't know that for sure, but
that was a possibility because just how he was surprised to

(29:50):
hear that I had reached out. OK, so he says I'm going to talk
to my wife before agreeing to meet or speak to James.
My cousin goes, well let's give it a week and see if I hear back
from him. If if he's talked to his wife, a
week goes by, nothing. So then I contact my cousin and

(30:11):
I said, hey, heard anything goes.
Nope. He goes, you know what, I'm
going to call him. So he called up his uncle, said,
hey, do you give more, more thought about it?
He goes, yeah, she has. She wants to keep the past in
the past and not bring anything up.
It's good as it is. No, we don't want to meet or
talk. How does that hit you?

(30:31):
It's like, OK, you're still hiding or keeping it a secret of
what you're essentially trying to do.
So my 2 birth parents know I know the story now.
My aunt and cousin know the story on my father's side.
You know this, the secrets not staying hidden anymore.
Why are you still trying to keepit hidden?
They're trying to keep it hiddenis what they're on.

(30:53):
They don't want it. They don't want anyone to reach
out to their sons about it or nothing like that.
OK, so your brothers, can I callthem your brothers or how do
you? They're I call them my brothers.
OK. So they don't know at this
point. Correct.
And that my birth father even told my cousin that yeah, the

(31:13):
boys do not know about this. All right, so you've, you've hit
another dead end. Your birth mother kind of
freezes you out like from from the start.
As soon as you identify her, there's speculation maybe she
was intercepting any communication that you tried

(31:35):
with your birth father. So he has no idea.
He finds out much later that youexist in the world that you
found him. And he also learns, whether he
accepts that or not, he learns what actually happened to you
after you were born and or, or maybe he knew and it was

(31:59):
awesome. I mean, I guess you don't really
know. And so your cousin is really
helping you navigate this. What does he suggest that you do
next? Like after this rejection?
So this is in now spring of 2024getting to be the summer, so
just about a year ago. And he wants to reach out to my

(32:21):
he'd be my youngest brother. He wants to reach out to him
himself and just say, hey, you have a brother out there your
parents didn't tell you about. And the reason he feels
comfortable with the youngest one is he was his godfather for
him. And we first talked that first

(32:41):
night I reached out to him, he told me that my youngest brother
was baptized at the church. I was left at like 4-5 six years
later at the same church. And that church, the main pastor
or main pastor is from the hometown of my mother.

(33:04):
And when I was talking to the associate pastor, the one that
baptized me, he's told me in an e-mail and over the a message
saying I've always had the assumption that the main pastor,
we'll just call him Pastor John,had an assumption on who
possibly left this baby, but he could not say.

(33:26):
So as far as you're concerned, you've got the information you
need. This is what happened despite
what your birth parents are are saying.
OK, what happens when your cousin reaches out to your
little brother? So he never did because I I

(33:48):
didn't want to wait around anymore.
And in 2024, July 1st, Minnesotapassed a law where I can get my
original birth certificate. I did not have that.
I had the one that's amended with my adoptive parents names,
my generic birth date and all that, right?
So in July of 2024, when that hit July 1st, I mailed that

(34:13):
thing off, paid the fee for it so I can get my original birth
certificate. I said there has to be that
because the doctor even said he wanted to fill one out.
So two weeks come by, I get my original birth certificate in
the mail and it has my name, James.
Which kind of surprised, didn't surprise me, not really, because

(34:35):
my parents always told me that the foster family named me Jimmy
or James, and I was used to thatafter eight months.
So they decided to keep that name.
There was a last name on the birth certificate, which just
threw me a curveball. It's a common one around in
Minnesota, but it's like, where did they get that name?
The where I was born address wasthe church I was left at and

(35:02):
that was about it on the birth certificate, you know, male,
white, and then I think they gave the weight of 1.
They weighed me that night, whatever.
But when Minnesota did that original birth certificate
search, they also search for adoption records.
There was 2 records they also searched for.

(35:23):
I knew I was abandoned but my birth father and birth mother
are saying you were put up for aprivate adoption.
Well when I got the files back that there was no adoption
record in Minnesota that went that were under those parents
names even not married like the maiden name or the married name.
There was no records. So I got that back.

(35:44):
So after I got it back, I emailed my birth mother.
So this is probably like the third, only third or fourth
communication. I have had her head with her by
e-mail. I had three questions.
I said when is my birthday because I don't know it.
Is there any medical history, like relevant medical history I

(36:07):
need to know of? Not just generic cancer or heart
disease. I want real stuff.
And then are you questioning thestory that I was abandoned
because she told me I was lying about that in what previous
e-mail and that I was put up foradoption?
She replied back, I don't know when your birthday is.
It was a day in August. Here are your the detailed

(36:31):
cancer stuff or diabetes stuff like that.
And no, I'm not questioning yourstory.
Someone else must have left you there.
OK, so in this scenario, the doctor and his wife who adopted
you or it's. Like, so I even thought to
myself, I said, I don't care if it's a private adoption unless

(36:54):
it's like a backdoor alley adoption.
Any adoption's gonna have a record.
And if someone else left me there, I'm pretty sure the
social worker is gonna check on the family that they gave a
child to like down the road a month or two.
And where's this baby at that you had?
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. How?

(37:15):
How do you feel to be getting these responses from?
Her So now me and my wife are like, OK, she is not not
painting a very nice picture of her because she's like, you
know, putting up wall after walland then essentially, I don't
know, lying about it or trying to deceive me.
So I was like, we're not gettinga very good first impression.

(37:37):
So that was July of 2024. Last year, of course, it took
her a week or two to get back tome asking those three questions.
And that was the last time I communicated with her.
It was a couple days before my birthday last year.
And me and my cousin, we've beentalking.

(37:58):
I talked to my aunt in in that time frame of the last six
months. She had talked to her brother
and said our parents will be upset with you if you just close
him out like this. He's not asking to move in, he's
not asking for money, he just wants to meet.
That's one of my cousins asked me multiple times.

(38:20):
He goes, what's your end goal? I said I want my brothers to
know about me and if we have a relationship, fine.
If not, that's fine either. Just as long as they're aware of
me. Because even looking through
social media of theirs, we attended the same concerts
together in Minneapolis, same night, same concert, we have the

(38:44):
same likes. We were able to find my
siblings, Facebook's accounts and my wife.
And even now my friends, they go, my Lord, you are identical
to the oldest one. I'm the oldest.
But in the middle one, their oldest spitting images of each
other, they go, oh you are for sure related to them.
What is your birth father say toyour aunt about this?

(39:08):
It's all it's up to his wife andright now we want to keep it in
the past. We even question the abandonment
story he told her one time, if that's even true.
So that was. Have paperwork to show it.
I mean multiple multiple places to confirm.

(39:29):
So that was August of last year.Since then, I didn't have any
communication with my birth parents until last week.
But last fall, I said, you know what?
I know my birth father's side ofthe family, talked to a cousin,
talked to an aunt, got the details on that.

(39:50):
I'm going to find my birth mother's sister, which only
lives two hours from me. So again, an older lady.
No social media whatsoever. I found her son, reached out to
him on Facebook again, a generichey, is your mom so and so?

(40:10):
I think she's my maternal aunt and these are my grandparents.
I'd like to chat with you. Or if you even get me her e-mail
or phone number, I'd like to call, chat with her.
Radio silence. It's like, OK, I'm the most
impatient person you'll meet. But when it came to this stuff,
I kind of was patient. I put it off, put it off.

(40:33):
I think it was early November. I said, you know what, I'm going
to mail an actual letter to thislady, my aunt.
So in that letter, all I wrote was, hey, I think you're my aunt
so and so are my grandparents. I'd love to chat with you.

(40:53):
So I sent that like on a Monday or Tuesday on a Saturday
morning, I'm standing in Walmartand I get a call from a number I
didn't know. Then all of a sudden it's a
message left. Hey, James, this is so and so I
think we need to talk. It was my aunt from my mother's

(41:14):
side. So I raced home, called her up.
She goes, so tell me who you areand who are your parents?
I go, well, I'm James. You're my aunt.
I'm pretty sure because your parents are my grandparents.
She goes, who's your parents? I said, it's so and so.

(41:39):
Are you sure? I go, Yep.
So I told her the story. I said, Yep, I was abandoned at
a church in 1978, da, da, da, da.
And when I called her, she goes,just so you know, you're on
speakerphone. My son is here, my husband's
here, and I have a friend here. I said, yeah, that's fine.
Well, while I'm talking to her on speakerphone, the friends in

(42:02):
the background on Google searching Star Tribune 1978,
September 1st, she goes, yeah, the articles right here.
And she shows it to my aunt thatI wasn't lying or made it up.
She goes, I had never knew anything about you or nothing.
So she's nine years older than my birth mother.
She goes, I had no idea, not nota clue.

(42:23):
You know, nine years apart. That's a long gap for sisters.
She goes, I didn't have much of a relationship with her until
their mother died. She goes.
Now, we communicate daily. She goes, At first I thought
this was a scam, and then her son piped in.
He goes, yeah. So how the story goes is she got
this letter from me, Rhett, readit.

(42:46):
She goes, this has to be a scam.Sent a picture of it to her two
daughters and her son, and the two daughters go, throw that
away, mom, that's a scam. They're probably looking for
money. And the brother goes, wait a
minute, let me check something. He goes back to his Facebook.
He goes, yeah, I seen this message pop up, but I thought it
was a scam, too, so I just left it there.

(43:07):
He goes, yeah, he reached out tome with the same story.
He goes, I think this is legit. And then, you know, on Facebook,
you can see, like, your profile picture.
And they go, oh, my Lord, he looks just like the other
sibling. This has to be true.
Wow. So you're making lots of inroads
here, although not not with yourbirth parents, but all around.

(43:29):
And it seems like people are pretty open to you.
Yep. So my aunt, my father's side
welcomes they they want me to come and visit, which I am
scheduling here in the next month or so to go down there and
visit. But they welcomed me in.
My cousin, I've been communicating with his brother
wants to meet all that stuff. And now this aunt that didn't

(43:49):
know any idea about me, she evensent me pictures of her family,
like my grandparents and my my mother and stuff like the
following week and then signs itAunt so and so and she goes,
yeah, you're part of the family.And then actually within a
couple weeks of that, me and my son, we are doing campus tours.

(44:13):
We stopped by and went and visither in person so she was able to
meet me in person and all that stuff.
Well, what was that like? Was that the first time that
you'd been around anybody who's biologically related?
To you first biological person ever.
Attached. What was that like?
That was kind of crazy and it was cool to see.
So yeah, we took a picture and we sat there for an hour and

(44:36):
chit chatted and all that. And then since then, she's come
to my town where I live. We spent a day together.
I took her around the town because what is absolutely mind
boggling is I was born in Minneapolis.
And then through the adoption, my parents ended up we're in

(44:57):
northern Minnesota in a town that has more relatives of mine
than my wife that was born and raised here.
I actually have a cemetery. It's a old country church
cemetery, all relatives of mine that I had no idea about.
I ended up in a town that my grandfather played hockey in,

(45:22):
one of the very first hockey teams in this town.
He played here, his brother played here.
My aunt that I met, my mother's sister would come and visit
their family in this town and she knew all about this town
because they are only three hours north of where I live now.
It was where they grew up, but in the town back in, we're

(45:46):
talking like the late 30s was a big lumber mill type hub where
my grandfather grew up, played hockey, all that stuff.
And you know, we hear about thissometimes, but like, lucky that
you didn't end up dating a relative or something.
Because after I did some more research on my family tree, some

(46:10):
hits come up and it's like he's my classmate.
He was actually my friend in high school.
So I messaged his brother, another one I knew.
I go, hey, is so and so your great grandmother?
He goes, Yeah, Why you asking? I said mine too.
He goes, what? I go, yeah, here.
This is who my grandparents are.He goes, oh, I know your grandma

(46:34):
and your aunt and all that stuffhere.
My classmate which I graduated with is my second cousin.
You know, once or twice removed been to his place, never knew.
I had no idea about it when I called my aunt that weekend.
She called my mother the next day and she said hey, you know

(46:55):
they usually communicate daily. She goes a James so and
so-called me today. You know who that is?
My mother goes Nope, never heardof him and my aunt goes stop
lying. I know who he is, I know the
story and everything with it. My mother, I guess, went silent

(47:20):
and in a minute or two hung up on her, hung up on her sister.
What did, what did your aunt sayabout that?
So she's, I call her a little whippersnapper.
She was another one that just welcomed me in and she wants me
to meet my siblings. She so in the main meantime
since then and till now, she's been after her sister saying you

(47:43):
need to meet your son again. He's not asking to move in, he's
not asking for money. He would just like to meet one
time, even if it's just one timeor even have some kind of
conversation with you. And even that weekend where she
came up and spent the day with us, we took pictures at a local
hockey rink because lo and behold, this local hockey rink

(48:04):
we have has these ginormous teamphotos from back in the day when
hockey originated in this town. My grandfather isn't kneeling on
the front pitcher of one of them, so she had to see a
picture of that. And it's how crazy it is that so
my son played hockey, played in the same arena that my

(48:27):
grandfather did back in the 1930s.
And we had no idea about it. So then my aunt told her two
daughters about this. And the one daughter even mailed
a letter to my mother saying, hey, I heard about this.
This is kind of cool and astounding.
You really need to maybe reach out to him and meet.

(48:50):
There was no reply to that letter to this day when I met
with my aunt, when she came to where I live.
This was in June of this year. And she's been she didn't want
to upset the apple cart per SE either cuz she just got into a
relationship with her sister, mymother in the last like 6 years.

(49:10):
Cuz here I find out my mother's mother died in 2019.
I would have known that I've been to that town where she
lived when my son was playing hockey.
I was in the town watching my son play where my grandmother
lived. And I missed, missed her by, you

(49:31):
know, however many years you want to say.
In March of this year, I got my brother's cell phone numbers and
I messaged them myself on my text from a text I seen that
they read it. The first one was just, hey,
we're related. I'd like to talk to you.
I got no reply, waited a week, sent one another one saying,
hey, I'm your brother. Your parents are my parents.

(49:54):
I'd like to tell you about the story again.
I seen there was red but no response and people have asked
why don't you just call them? It's like I just don't know what
I it's so much easier in a text message what you would say then
calling someone that has at thistime no idea I existed.
I think something that's coming to mind without judgement, to be

(50:20):
clear, is that I think there's sometimes this question that
adoptees or NP ES or donor conceived people get around.
Why do you want to know? Why do you want to connect with
these people? Why do you want to like keep
reaching out? And so I'm curious like what was

(50:43):
compelling you to want to speak to them?
I think that would be really important for people to hear and
understand. I've been asked that multiple
times and as of right now I don't care if I meet my birth
parents right now they're putting up too many walls and if
they don't want to meet me, they're lost and I've got really

(51:05):
nothing to lose. I didn't have them in the first
place so I have nothing to lose.But I think it's important that
my brothers siblings know that Iexist.
I'm open to meet with them and Icould, I agree past is in the
past, but it's always present still and I'm I'm still around.
Let's just get over it and go forward.

(51:27):
And if we have a relationship, that's fine.
If not as, as at least they knowI'm out there now.
It's just the part that doesn't keep me up at night.
But I, I keep going back to ancestry all the time, checking
to see if any new hits is there's a family out there that
I'm not part of, but that they could just, they don't even have

(51:51):
to acknowledge me, but they could say, hey, that happened.
Here's the reason. Because that's one question I
have for my birth mother. What was the reason behind it?
And I don't care. It was your prerogative to do
that. But let's just not lie about it
and that the secret's out now. Let's we don't need to keep
burying it. Yeah, yeah.

(52:14):
Do you want to have a connection?
I mean, you said you've, you've released maybe an expectations
from your birth parents, but do you want to have that like
family feeling from the people that you have spoken to or like
from your brothers that you've, you know, haven't necessarily
connected with? People always say that mirroring

(52:35):
thing, you want to see yourself and someone else.
I've yet to do that. My aunt is the closest, but when
I see pictures of my brothers, you can spit in images of each
other. And I even came across a high
school picture of my birth father playing baseball and I

(52:56):
took a quick snap shot of it andsent it to my wife and my son
and my daughter. I said, who is that in that
picture? And my wife and son both come
back. That's me.
That's our son. I go no, that's my father at the
same age as my son, spitting images of each other.

(53:18):
What do your kids think about this?
They've been asked about that. It's kind of like a cool story
for them to talk about or something like that.
But it's also, they know kind ofwhere I come from, from my
adopted family side, but nothingthat's not in their blood, you

(53:39):
know, it's not blood related. Until this opened up and I
started meeting people, the story of me and being abandoned,
they understand what happened. We even went and visit that
church a couple summers ago. I went to the church myself and
then seen the stairway I was left at.
What was that like? That was kind of cool.

(53:59):
It was after a Sunday Mass and this parishioner comes running
out. Hey, come back next week.
We're at 9:00 Mass. I said, I'm just looking here.
I go. By any chance how long have you
been a parishioner here? And she goes, ah, only since
like the 80s. She goes, why do you ask?
I said, well, I was abandoned here in 1978.
She goes, you were what? She goes, come with me.

(54:20):
There's a Bible studied happening down in the basement
and there's some old people thatbeen around since then.
So she took me in there and I met a couple older people that
vaguely remember the story of happening in that that church
and what a full circle moment tocome back to the church you were
left at. So when the wall has been kind
of put up for my birth parents ever meeting them, I kind of

(54:43):
just acknowledge this and OK, the siblings will come along
sometime. Hey, after my birth parents die,
the siblings are full game. I'll just show up at their
doorstep if I have to. But the birth mother's kind of
playing gatekeeper per SE. I said, well, let's move on to
the foster parents because I wasfostered for eight months.

(55:03):
I'd like to just touch base withthem saying, hey, thanks for
taking care of me for eight months.
I'm still alive and kicking. So I had asked Lutheran Social
Services for any information andthey go, well, you have to fill
out this application and pay forit.
I go, I did that in 2006 and there wasn't much in there.
Can you just tell me if there's any more in there?

(55:25):
They go, well, you really need to fill out the application and
submit it, but the laws have changed since you asked in 2006.
And kind of she didn't give a wink, wink in the e-mail, but
kind of like beat around the Bush, like you should really
reapply to get paperwork. So I did that and I got assigned

(55:46):
a person after 12 weeks to go look at my records.
And she goes, yeah, here's more records from the foster family
that you were there. She was able to put me into
contact with them for the fosterfamily.
And we're actually going to, I'mgoing to meet them for the first

(56:06):
time again here this Friday. I'm going down there to visit
them. Oh my God, you'll have to give
me an update on how it goes. So they fostered over 1200 kids,
but they were an emergency shelter.
So she said that they had kids from within from hours at most a
couple weeks. They all they had the kids.

(56:27):
She goes, I was an exception. They had me for eight months
because of the scenario that I would there was no parents.
And so they had me for eight months.
They named me. She told me that they had three
kids of their own and her husband never wanted to have
like a junior. It's named after him, no son.

(56:50):
So when they were able to name me, she named me after him.
So now I know where my first name comes from.
So that was cool to hear. So I've talked to them on the
phone and I'm going to meet themin person this Friday.
But they remembered me because we had to communicate through
the social worker. They go oh baby Jimmy, I

(57:11):
remember him for sure. Oh my gosh, that's so cool that
you're able to connect with themand that they're still alive and
you're able to. Yeah.
They are, no. They're in their mid 80s, so
very lucky that they're, like you said, they're still alive.
That I was able to meet because my parents got me at 8 months
old. I have nothing before that eight

(57:33):
months of my life. Nothing besides the newspaper
article and some police reports I have from the night I was
found. So now I should be able to be
filled in a bit from my foster family how I was those eight
months because they got me like that night.
I got 34 files of the night I was found.

(57:56):
So I got the official police report detailed by the police
officers, names, badge number, them coming up to the scene at
the church who reported it, all that.
And then I've got all the paperwork of me going through
the system becoming, you know, my parental rights being let go

(58:19):
after a search and such date. You know, So I was in the front
page of the newspaper. I was on radio stations, they
put out articles and newspapers saying if you are the parents of
this abandoned boy happened on this such and such date, your
parental rights are going to be dismissed on this day if you
don't show up. So I got all the court records

(58:40):
of the day I became a ward of the state because no parent
showed up. Parents John Doe, Baby Doe or
all that. So now I've got all the
paperwork. Got it.
It's only paperwork. But everything from the night I
was found up until I was adoptedout of foster care, and then I
got that information from my adoptive parents.

(59:03):
What I still don't have is my birth date.
Like when was I actually born? All that information.
Are your adoptive parents still alive?
My dad is my mom died 10 years ago.
She knew. I reached out to Lutheran Source
Services the first time, and I'mpretty sure she got to see the

(59:27):
newspaper article, the front page.
She thought that was cool, but she remembers a different
article when they read about me.I could never find that one.
But then she died before the DNAtesting and stuff happened.
She'd be tickled pink right now.And what I found out?
Oh, that's so amazing that they were supportive of you trying to
find this information and and that they were open with you

(59:48):
just from the beginning with what they felt was age
appropriate, right. My dad still asks me, you know,
weekly or monthly, like any headway.
He knows the story. Up to now, he just never really
said what he thinks about or feels.
But he just asked me where we'reat with it.
Now you alluded earlier that when you were abandoned there

(01:00:10):
that you were left with with things like a.
Bottle. And yeah.
So in the police report, a detailed plastic shopping bag
with plastic handles and you know, those plastic handles on
bags that actually like snap together, that's what it
detailed in there. It's like, wait a minute, I have

(01:00:32):
that bag and cuz I just thought I my parents gave me that bag.
The stuff that was found with mewhen I turned 18.
They gave it to me. They said they'd never looked
into it. They said that is your stuff.
We never looked into it. They had no idea what was in
there and I just thought it was a random bag that they had taken
because it was from a Maryland department store.

(01:00:54):
Well, my mom had an aunt that lived in Maryland.
So I just put two and two together that it was just a bag
that they grabbed. Well, speaking with my mother's
sister, my aunt, my mother livedout in Washington, DC the year
before I was born. And Washington, DC is next to
Maryland, where this department store was.

(01:01:16):
Yeah. So this this bag she brought
back with her and proceeded to got it.
I'm 99% sure she's the one that left me there. 99% sure.
But there's that 1.1%. But how would I get left with
the bag that you brought back with you?

(01:01:38):
Yeah. And I just found that out here
last month when I got this police report.
It's like I have that bag sitting in my storage.
It's amazing how much of the information that you find is, I
don't want to say luck because you put a lot of work into it,
but it it's wow. What are your feelings towards

(01:02:01):
your birth mother and birth father?
So if I'm being honest, I think it's, and I've been told this
from both my aunts, that my birth mother kind of runs the
roost there, runs the house. They're not surprised that the
siblings have not responded. When I had texted my siblings, I
never heard nothing back. About a month later I sent a

(01:02:24):
certified letter to the oldest 1so I knew it would get to him
explaining the whole story. Never heard nothing back.
Probably in June of this year myaunt called me.
My birth father's sister said hecalled me last night and told me
that the boys know of you because the oldest one came and
asked him if this is true. Supposedly he got a letter or a

(01:02:47):
message. So as of right now they know
about me. They have not reached out back
to me, but we don't know what story they've been told.
Last week was my birthday week. So the day before my birthday I
emailed my birth mother first time in a year.
Told her this past is the past secret does not need to be

(01:03:09):
buried anymore. I just want to let you know that
your siblings on both. I emailed it to both my birth
father and birth mother. Blind carbon copied so she
didn't see that he got it. Just saying hey I've met and
talked to your siblings and their families.
They've welcomed me in. They're awesome people.

(01:03:30):
I said I'm open to meeting you. If you don't want to, that's
fine. My son graduated this last
spring. We sent them a graduation
announcement unmarked, just had the address label and send it to
them just so they can see. My son is 18.
They could have had 18 years. My daughter's 15.

(01:03:52):
I'd say they missed out. So that's not a regret of mine,
but it's something, you know what, that they missed out on.
So she replied back and she said, I understand our
communication isn't what you want or like we did acknowledge
the graduation announcement for your son, which she did.
She just did a random e-mail, got the graduation announcement.

(01:04:13):
Congrats, that's all it was. She never calls me by name on
emails either. It's just hello, no name.
But she has been signing the last two emails now, her and her
husband's name, her and my father's name.
She did sign it like take care or whatever.
So I think there might be a little bit leeway.
But she said, I understand we'reprobably not communicating like

(01:04:33):
you want. And she goes, you know what,
I'll talk to the boys and see what we want to do going
forward. I would like to meet my
siblings. I have brothers, you know,
adopted brothers or however you want to call that.
I got brothers, grew up with them, but again, they weren't
biological full Blood Brothers. Did that give you some hope?

(01:04:55):
Yeah, you know, a little bit like I, of course, I hurried up
and called my cousin. He goes, that's a huge
breakthrough, but he goes, let'snot hold our breath on it either
because we might be holding it for a while.
But he goes, it's a huge step. I've had people tell me I should
just show up at the doorstep, I said.
That's a little awkward. I'm not that.

(01:05:15):
I'm not that outgoing of a person just to show up at
someone's door. I keep going through the nuance
of the fact that she stayed withyour birth father, you know, and
maybe there's, I mean, I don't know her, you know, but I, I
imagine that there's some shame and.
She says there's not. She told me that one e-mail that

(01:05:36):
there's no shame or guilt and she never felt connected to me.
Those were when I got that, thatwas a probably a year ago after
I first reached out to her and Itold her who I was.
That kind of stung a little bit that, you know, no guilt, no
shame. I never felt connected with you,
which you had to have that firstcouple hours or however it

(01:06:00):
happened. And the reason I pursued this
more was, you know, sometimes when someone gives up a baby
like that, it was due to some awful reason, like, you know, an
assault or some kind of something like that.
The reason I pursued it was she was still with my father,
married and had kids, other ones.

(01:06:24):
So they're put in my words, they're making it worse than it
needs to be right now, so. Yeah, that's an interesting
perspective because you are so open, makes you wonder what's
maybe really going on there. What advice do you have for
parents who are contacted by a child that they relinquished or

(01:06:49):
abandoned in your case? I know it has to be shocking,
but today's DNA home testing, you almost have to be waiting
for it to happen. If you so did something like
that, take a moment but don't lie about it.
And then it's going to come about because like me, even I'm
a little bit passive aggressive.I was going to let people know

(01:07:13):
what happened. I'm going to tell everyone it's
not. I'm not going to keep the secret
anymore. She can, that's her own
prerogative, but be honest with your family.
If you have other children that don't know about this other
child, you need to maybe tell them like you said, age
appropriate. What advice do you have for

(01:07:33):
someone who is embarking on a journey of figuring out who they
are using DNA or other research?Keep digging and ask all the
questions and don't take no for an answer.
I I could have shut down two years ago after that first
e-mail saying hey don't contact anyone.

(01:07:54):
But then people told me, it's your story, you can tell it and
tell it how you want it to be said.
So that's why I've always been in the back of my mind is, yeah,
it's my story. I'll tell it.
I'm part of it. There's a there's three people
in this story and I'm one of them.
And I'll be able to tell my story if I want to.
The past is always present. That is so true, so true.

(01:08:16):
Well said. James, thank you so much for
joining me and sharing your story so generously today.
I hope that you get more answersand, you know, maybe that damn
breaks a little bit more becauseI can tell that you are so open
and willing to connect even after all of this, and that's

(01:08:36):
pretty remarkable. Thanks again to James for
sharing his story. If you have Adna Surprise that
you'd like to share, please submit your story at
dnasurprises.com. We'll be back in 2026 with brand
new DNA Surprise stories. But before I sign off, I want to
thank you for listening. DNA surprises recently crossed

(01:09:00):
1,000,000 downloads, something Inever imagined when I started
this podcast nearly four years ago.
Thank you for your reviews, yourPatreon support, your emails,
and your messages. It all means so much.
But most importantly, thank you,thank you, thank you for

(01:09:22):
listening. I hope that this podcast has
been a place of support and education for you over the past
four years. I'll be back next year.
Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises
was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt.

(01:09:42):
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording
Studios.