"I Got Called the Ice Queen": Real Talk on Leadership's Tough Decisions

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We explore what leadership truly means and how to effectively navigate the complexities of leading others through both challenges and successes.

• Rookie leadership mistake: trying to do everything yourself instead of investing time to train others
• Being relatable as a leader requires having walked in your team members' shoes
• Leadership requires both getting in the trenches with your people and making tough decisions
• Leading through crisis demands respecting different perspectives while maintaining core values
• Finding the balance between vulnerability and strength is essential for effective leadership
• Setting clear standards for behavior protects your team culture and environment
• Leadership isn't just about production metrics but how people treat each other
• Great leaders ask questions that help people discover solutions rather than just giving answers
• When you genuinely care about what drives your team members, you can lead them more effectively
• Leadership takes courage and isn't for the faint of heart

Work hard, be kind, care about your people, ask lots of questions, know that it's not going to be easy, but it is going to be worth it.

💡 Lessons we’ve learned about balancing it all—sometimes successfully, sometimes… not.

If you’re out here trying to do EPIC SH*T, this one’s for YOU. Hit play, tag a friend, and let’s do this thing together! 👇

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've done this class 42 times, okay, well, how about
you pick a new class?
Eight, woo-hoo.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
We own fire today.
Well, hey, epic Humans, woo,hey, that's a pretty good one.
Right, you are Epic Human.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Do Epic Shit, the podcast where we dive
into life, business, real estateand a real impact.
I'm Colleen Pazinski, I'm KimNeal and today we're talking
about leadership, what itactually means this is a good
one.
What it actually means thelessons you learn by doing it,
the wins and of course the fails, yep.

(00:36):
Everything that shapes who webecome as leaders.
Whether you're running acompany, leading a team or just
stepping into your power, thisepisode is packed with insights
to help you lead with confidenceoh, it is a good one.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm excited for this one, I am ready.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Also reminder if you're loving the show, make
sure you subscribe, share itwith your crew and leave us a
review.
It helps us reach more epicpeople like you.
Oh, how about the hate mail?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
we did get some hate mail we did get some hate mail,
few things that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
So mail A few things, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
So let's just dive in .
Are you ready to dive in?
I am, I am, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
So have you ever faced a moment where your
leadership was seriously testedOf?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
course.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I can think of a few.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, me too, I mean think about it Like over the
years, as we're running thedifferent offices and we're
building these teams and thethings that we had in, like
people came and went right.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes, they sure did.
I think this is a great topicfor you.
Great, I'm going to get all thequestions.
I think this is a great topic.
I mean you've been in quite afew leadership roles Different.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, there were plenty of times where I felt
like I could do it all myself,where I'm just like running on
pure adrenaline alone, like I'mjust powering through and going
through, I mean working untilthree, four in the morning just
trying to do it all.
And really I think when you areleading, there's a lot of
balancing involved reallybetween not only picking the
right people to get intobusiness with and who to

(02:00):
delegate and who to giveresponsibility to, but also how
you lead those people, how youmotivate those people and how
you treat them or how they treatyou back.
I was just going to say I'vehad some people role model, some
really great leadership for me,and I've had some people role
model, some really poorleadership for me.

(02:21):
I mean you too.
Think about it, you were on theleadership council of one of our
companies together, Like so youhave some.
Really, you were a leader, youled a team, you were growing a
team, lots of different things.
What's a rookie leadershipmistake you made?
I think you just said it doingit all yourself.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
You're in leadership, but you're doing it all
yourself.
And for me, it wasn't that Ididn't think people were
equipped or qualified, it was Ijust thought honestly I'm just
going to be honest I didn't wantto take the time out to
actually teach and train people,I just wanted to do it, just so

(02:57):
I didn't have to stop, train,do.
But then I was the first one tocriticize Like, oh my God, they
didn't do it.
They didn't do it as good as me.
Well, because I didn't take thetime out to train and do the
thing and put the trust inpeople that they have it.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, I think that I think you hit a good point there
.
So there's a bunch of differentsteps.
It's about choosing the rightpeople, but it's also investing
the time and the energy andhelping to develop them into
great team members, greatemployees, great agents, great
leaders themselves.
Because, as we were growingoffices, it wasn't just about

(03:37):
the agents we brought in andinvesting in them and teaching
them how to grow their teams,but we're also multiple offices,
having people then who couldlead leaders, which was very
interesting, and I got some goodstories I'm going to share in
just a little bit, so let'sspill some tea.
So what was your firstleadership role?
How?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
did it feel ALC?
It was definitely an agentleadership, but we had a
committee, we had, you know,there was a bunch of us with a
lot of great learning lessons, Ithink.
So I think that was, first ofall, like you're trying to lead,
you know your peers in youroffice and I think, in order to
be a good leader, you have tobeen in that role, been in like

(04:19):
a walk.
Yes, bottom line, you had tohave walked the walk in order to
be able to relate to people andlead people and help people.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
I really feel like that's a mistake.
So I've taught leadershipclasses and courses and been
certified to teach this andwhatever, and I feel like that's
kind of a misnomer that youdon't have to have done it
before in order to be a goodleader, which you know.
I've heard lots of gurus saythat.
I think that, from aperspective standpoint, it
really helps you keep somehumility and also be more

(04:52):
understanding of the person thatwas.
That's in that role that you'releading, If you've been there
before and you've walked intheir shoes before.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I agree with that.
I mean, I think we've seen alot of leaders come and go just
in big companies, and no, theydidn't have to sell you know $30
million or $40 million in realestate to be a good leader.
But it sure helps.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, I think there's a To be relatable.
I would agree with you.
I think there's a.
It's almost like a complicatedalgorithm of experience and also
investment in your learning andyour growth, and it's got to be
a combination of both, becausethere's people out there that
have been really successfulsalespeople and they are shit
leaders.
True.

(05:35):
Very much Like they're trying togrow this team or this business
and I'm like, omg, I wouldnever, never, right, yes.
But also on the flip side, Ithink there's people that, like,
have studied all this and readall these books and you can
probably think of a few peoplethat I'm talking about that they
just are operating off oftheory and they've never

(05:56):
actually sold a house, or andthey're trying to tell me how to
go out and do an appointmentand if you've never been there.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I'm just going to be completely honest Can't do it
hit and I don't want to soundlike, oh, but you're gonna sit
up there and tell me I should doa, b and c to have a successful
business.
I'm all for that like pleasetell me you know how to do
better and how to be better but,how do you sit and tell me to
be better, do better when youdon't, when you haven't been

(06:26):
there?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well, and I think for me that's been a double edged
sword, because there have beensome times where I've been
hesitant to act in my leadershiproles because like, oh, I don't
know if I've really done thatbefore, so I don't feel almost
that imposter syndrome that wewere talking about before, like
I don't feel confident enough inmy own ability to lead someone
else to do this because I don'twant to be that imposter and at

(06:49):
the same time, like I also,sometimes you just have to, as a
leader, I think, make thedecision, take the action and
stand up and show up confident,because if you're not, you'll
run right all over you.
I agree with that Sure, if I'mlooking back at my leadership
journey early on, since youasked the question, yep.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, tell us.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
You know, I would say like when I started running an
office but before you knew me atthat office I actually was a
managing broker of anotheroffice and I did have to do it
all along.
I was an island out there and Iwas writing content for classes
and running meetings and justdoing it on the fly and I didn't
have, I didn't know what I wasdoing, but I did know I was
there with my people all thetime and I feel like probably

(07:33):
lesson number one is, ortakeaway number one is, honestly
be there with your people, careabout your people and get get
dirty with them, so to speak,like roll up your sleeves and
help dig and you earn thatrespect?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
don't you think Like, if I don't see you in every day
and I don't mean you personally, but as a lady who's showing up
every day or most of the time,and I don't see that person
there with me in the trenches orunderstand what I'm saying, how
do you listen to them?

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, yeah, and I think I've flip-flopped back and
forth from being in thetrenches to then being hardcore.
I mean, you know the storyright about when I had to.
So we had some high standardsthat we were held to from our
corporate offices and you knowlike I needed people to perform
at a really high level and I hadto fire a lot of people.
I mean, I'm thinking about thestandards you had in the office.

(08:23):
Well, in real estate, office isan interesting that's the word
I'm looking for an interestingdynamic, correct.
Yeah, dynamic is great Becauseyou have employees, right, so
you have like assistant manager,coaches and staff and things
like that.
But then you have a bunch ofagents who are independent
contractors, who they don't haveto do anything you tell them to
do.
So you have to develop yourleadership skills pretty quickly

(08:46):
.
They'll just flock somewhereelse, like they'll just like
give me my license, I'm gone,right.
True, so it was a balancing actbetween both, and I think it
was, but I'm just thinking of,like, some of the people that I
put into management roles withme and I hate using the term
management and people say, oh,what's a leader versus a manager
?
And a leader does this and amanager just has a title, but I
mean, there's a lot of crossoverbetween them both, wouldn't you

(09:09):
say?
Sure, but I can remember onetime where I had someone that I
think my biggest flaw I'mbacking up now is I want it for
people and I believe in it, andI want it for them more than
they want it for themselves, andso I give people more of a
benefit of a doubt because I'mlike this person that is like,
oh, you know, I want to givethis person a chance and I want

(09:30):
to lift them up and make themthe example story.
Right, we know.
But I remember one time, youknow, we had these standards
that we had to hit, and you knowI couldn't do it myself.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I couldn't do it on myself, so you know as someone
who is on the agent in theleadership council.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
You know I couldn't do it myself.
I couldn't do it all myself.
So you know, as someone who ison an agent in the leadership
council, you're seeing me havingthis person or people that
weren't hitting the standards,and then how are you going to
follow me as a leader if I'm notholding my standards to the
other people?
Right, like it's incongruent.
So I had to fire this personand I got called every name in
the book, including my wonderfulnickname that stuck with me for

(10:04):
several years.
You know which one it is?
Yes, I do.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
What is?

Speaker 1 (10:07):
it.
It is the Ice Queen.
Ice Queen, yeah, so, and thatfloated around for a while, but
I think what happens is we havethese knee jerk reactions.
So then, the next role that Iwas in in the next company,
which was my own company, I waslike, well, I'm not going to be
like that.
I was like, well, I'm not goingto be like that, I'm going to
be too soft.
And so it's so far in the otherdirection, where I had people,

(10:28):
basically, you know, walk allover me and try to steal
business from me.
So I think you know, being aleader, it's a fine line that
you're toting and how you showup, people are watching every
single day.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
I agree with that.
You do watch.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I watch, we all watch .

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Can you think of a time that you were in over your
head as a new leader?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
I think, more in over my head with a team.
Well, I mean, you're leading ateam that's a leader.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Absolutely.
When I had my own team, I feltdrowning, Like I was drowning.
You get into this businessbecause I think you said
something you want it more forpeople than they want it for
themselves, and I feel like wedo.
We go in head first and we wantit so bad and this is what you
do and this is how you do it.
And go, go, go, go.

(11:11):
And some people just aren'tthere.
They're just not there andyou're, you know, spending money
and I was taking less money andyou know you're hitting these
numbers, these high numbers, andpeople are like, oh my God,
you're so good and your team isso good.
Really, I was making less moneyrunning a team than I would
have if I was to stay with meand one other person.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
But you're still leading when you only have one
other person.
Like, even if you just have anassistant or even your clients.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
you're leading your clients, but I think you have a
tendency to pay more attentionwhen you have just one other
person, or you pay attention alittle more and give them a
little more.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Well, I think there's a piece of you that's taken out
every person you lead and Iremember one of the things that
I learned was like there's thiskind of hierarchy I don't know
if hierarchy is the right word,but this where you can only have
so many people that you canlead before you have no capacity
left to take care of the thingsyou need to take care of, and
so it can't be one leader thathas like 400 people that are

(12:13):
reporting to you, but you can bea leader who has other people
that are reporting to you.
The kind of sensitive thing isand I did this, I remember this.
So we had this thing where,like, I was the team leader of
the office and I was onlysupposed to interact with the
top 20 percent, right, right.
So I mean, I, I totally screwedup this.
This girl came up to me and sheruns up to me in the hallway

(12:35):
and I was on my way to themeeting and she's like I have a
question and I was like you needto go talk to so and so about
that I have to talk to, and Icould just see the look on her
face when I said it.
Yeah, like I made her feel likea piece of shit, yep, and I
immediately stopped and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
Like I knew that the model thatthey were teaching us, in
theory, it was great.
But in reality you still have tomake people feel important

(12:58):
Because, at the end of the day,that's all we have is how we
treat each other.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Absolutely.
Why do you think I was?
I used to be the busy bi fella.
I knew everybody when I washeavy into coming in the office
I mean this, you know, pre-covidand things when everybody was
there in the office and when wecame in all the time, a friend
of mine who loved the culture,loved what I had to do to help,

(13:24):
and she had one of the leadersin the office that she went up
to after class.
They taught the class, you know, and then went up after they
completely brushed her off,completely said do A, b and C
and I have to go, and she was somortified that she came to me
and said I'm leaving and left.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Completely, took her license and left.
I think we need to be conscious, as leaders, how we're making
people feel Because here's thething production or whatever, it
doesn't matter.
At the end of the day, we'restill human beings.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Absolutely.
I really do thrive off ofcamaraderie and the vibe what we
talked about last week thatmakes me thrive.
I'm not an introvert.
I don't like to be alone, wantto be and I want to help you and
I want to do I and I probablywant to help more than somebody
wants help, and I think I thinkthat's okay though I think it's

(14:17):
okay to push people.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
That's part of leadership too.
It's like how are you pushingpeople to show up to be their
best every day?

Speaker 2 (14:24):
the thing that makes me happy or puts a smile on my
face is when I see them doingbetter.
There really is.
This industry really has a lotto offer.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
This industry, this real estate business that we're
in, has the unlimited potentialto achieve whatever you want.
Is there any book or course orexperience that you had that
made a significant impact onyour leadership philosophy?

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yes, yeah, there's been a couple.
I've done numerous classes, asyou know.
I think we all have A zillion.
So early on in my career Iwould take class after class
after class.
There was one that stuck outthat was early on.
That was eight weeks or sixweeks, I can't even remember.
It was the very beginning.
Just cut down basics and Ithink that grows you as an agent

(15:10):
, as a person.
And then there's a couple moreas you start doing business.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
There's a couple classes that get you ready for
leadership and to be able toteach, I think reading and
listening and watching andlearning.
I mean, we poured into classafter class.
I can remember, like PatrickLencioni is one that stands out
to me, like he had a lot ofbooks about teamwork and
leadership and I saw him speakonce.
Extreme Ownership is anotherone.

(15:35):
That was the Navy SEAL Jocko.
Oh, that was a good one, right?
So he?
I mean knowing that you have totake ownership first before you
can expect other people to doit To me, that's one that stood
out to me.
No excuses, no blame shifting.
If it's if something goes wrong, it's my fault.
I'm the leader of the ship,right?
Yep, let's talk a little bit.
Let's change directions.
Let's talk a little bit aboutauthenticity versus authority,

(15:58):
so like balancing being genuinewith being respected.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
I like this one with being respected.
I like this one Again for me tobe respected, you have to be
genuine in my book, because youhave to know what you're talking
about.
You have to understand it.
So in order for me to be able,even for my own self, I feel
like I have to know what I'mtalking about.
I have to be genuine, I have tobe truthful in order to come

(16:25):
across, to say, to speak, inorder to be respected.
So I think they go hand in hand.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think you know I hear peoplesay oh, you got to fake it till
you make it, and I don't know ifthat's so.
I don't know if I necessarily.
I think there's something to besaid for confidence.
I said, as I think, as a leader, you have to show up and you
have to, you know, hold yourhead up high and be confident,
but I don't think you have to bedisingenuous.
I think you can be genuine andbe confident at the same time,

(16:54):
so you can be kind, you can begenuine and you can still
command respect, and I think thebest leaders master both.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
I agree.
This is a good question for youhow to do both.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think the best leaders are the
ones that never think they knowat all that they're always
pouring into themselves so thatthey can pour into others.
I would agree.
If you've watched me over mycareer, I've always been a
consummate learner, likelearning, learning, learning.
Because you know as much as Ifeel like I know.
I still feel like there's somuch that I don't know, and I

(17:26):
think when you're willing to dothat, you're willing to continue
to pour in yourself and learn,at least from my belief system.
I think that other people seethat and they respect that.
Yeah, the worst leaders to meare the ones that stand up there
and think that they know it all.
I cannot follow a know-it-all,even if what they're saying is

(17:46):
true.
If they act like a know-it-all,I'm like done.
Turn it off.
Yeah, I'm done so.
I think, at least for me that'sbeen.
You know, if you pour intoyourself and you're constant
learning and constantly growingand that doesn't mean going to
the same old, tired classes overand over again, like when we've
seen people that have I've donethis class 42 times, okay, well
, how about you pick a new class?
Yeah, right, like and I'm notsaying you can't learn something
from a like they say you onlylearn 10% or you only absorb 10%

(18:07):
of what you learn in a class.
So maybe go back again and doit a couple of times.
But sometimes a differentperspective will help as well.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Absolutely Right.
I agree with that.
It's just like from the sameold classes.
How many times that you takeand then you shift gears and you
go into a totally differentatmosphere.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Or you take and then you shift gears and you go into
a totally different atmosphere,or you know, and then you're
like, oh, wow, well and I thinkthe world is changing constantly
too, like the world today isnot the same as it was six
months ago, a year ago, fiveyears ago I mean think about it.
Six years ago we didn't haveCOVID, like how different was
everything in every way of howwe do business.

(18:45):
Completely different, right?
Yeah, I mean all the technologythat we have oh yeah, not for
sure okay so we were just at aclosing together yesterday, six
years ago.
What would that closing havelooked like?
Absolutely, I agree.
Both parties would have been inthe room, both attorneys would
have been in the room, everybody.
It would have been a completelydifferent vibe than what was
there.
It was just the buyers werethere with their attorney,
seller had already pre-signed,like everything was different.

(19:07):
So if business is donedifferently, I think the way
that you have that you lead hasto be different too From a core
values perspective, but fromjust growing yourself and
learning things differently,yeah, and so forth, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
I agree with that.
Sure was different yesterday,huh.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Well, that, yeah, I mean it's.
I was like, oh, you know, thisis a little.
I mean we had to go because webring the keys and we were
driving past there anyway anevent to go to, but yeah it's a
great segue to the next questionI have is, which is leading
through change and uncertainty.
So give me an example of timesyou had to lead through
challenges like business pivotsor crises, and some strategies

(19:43):
that maybe you use to keeppeople motivated during those.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think COVID was huge.
I think that switched my wholeentire business, my whole entire
life, and I'm sure for otherpeople as well.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Well, I mean even just, and I don't want to get
all political on here, so I'mnot going to, we're not going to
share political viewpoints,we're not one way or the other.
Just the crises that we've seenin terms of one side versus the
other and learning to lead whenyou have people that are polar
opposites in viewpoints, LikeI'm thinking about.
When you brought up COVID, I'mthinking about, like, one of the

(20:14):
offices that I had.
I had people that were verystrong opinionated on one side
and very strong opinionated onthe other side and I had to
learn a way to navigate throughthat to keep them all co-working
in a mutually happy and safeand friendly environment.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I had clients too, when all that was, you know,
coming about and blowing up andI think at that time, you know,
people quit coming in the office.
I dissolved my team, peoplewent to other.
You know, people quit coming inthe office.
I dissolved my team, peoplewent to other you know other
agencies and I was left standingthere like okay, now what?

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well, we reconnected actually after that yeah.
Because we had disconnected fora little bit, when I had left
the one company, the one officeI was at, yeah, opened my own
office and I had.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
At that point everybody had stopped coming in
and you know you're down aloneand you're kind of looking
around like who's there to help?
How are we navigating this?
And there just wasn't, and Iguess it's the.
It was the uncertainty backthen and I think what got us
through?

Speaker 1 (21:16):
because we actually grew as a company and that was
happening, like we had peoplethat didn't like how other
people were leading or showingup as leaders, and they were
like, okay, I'm going to comejoin you, I'm going to work with
you.
And I think for me, the keycomponent in that was to
understand that everyone canhave a different opinion and you
can still respect their opinioneven if you don't agree with it

(21:36):
.
Stay true to your core values,like you, don't compromise on
standards in your business, butit doesn't mean that we have to
treat each other badly.
That we can respect each other'sopinion and, as a leader, how
you model and show up in thatregard is everything Like not
coming out with ultimatums ormandates or this, like, I think,
asking more questions tounderstand viewpoints better.

(21:58):
And maybe that just you didn'task this question, but I'm just
going to just share it with you.
For me, I think, leadership Ibecame a better leadership, a
better leader, as I learned tobecome a better coach.
Because in coaching, incoaching the people that,
whether it was my agents orother leaders across the country
or the world, I actually wascoaching someone in the Middle

(22:19):
East believe it or not an officeout there, but when I was
learning to become a bettercoach.
Coaching is all about askingquestions, to dig deeper, to
help someone, and I think, as aleader coaching leader is a more
impactful and powerful andstronger leader, in my opinion,
than a boss leader like someonewho just comes in as a manager
and bosses people around is notgoing to be as effective or

(22:42):
impactful.
So if you're listening andyou're thinking, okay, how can I
show up as a better leader?
I would say one ask morequestions and really care about
what's important to your peopleand then lead them through a
learning experience instead of abossing people around
experience, absolutely, and wecan all just be kind yeah Well,
it's right here on my cup, yeah,work hard be kind, work hard,

(23:05):
be kind, just be kind.
Even if you don't agree withthem, we can still bow out and I
think I really, truly believethat that's what caused us to
continue to grow through thatwhole COVID debacle.
And the craziness that washappening is that I'm not trying
to pat myself on the back, butthat was hard Like learning to
navigate that and you had peoplethat were like I don't want to
wear a mask, you better wear amask.

(23:26):
And like I don't want, I don'tfeel safe with this person, or
or there's this happening andyou know, stand over there and
open the door over here.
But, even just kind of like thepolitical and social violence.
That was happening out there.
All of that was happening atonce and we were trying to
navigate all that and I thinkfor me, the core thing was
understanding that everybody hasa right to their opinion.

(23:49):
They don't have a right to makesomeone feel less than they
don't have a right to forcetheir opinion on someone else,
but they still have a validright to have that and you
should care about how they feel,not force your feelings or
opinions on someone, but stillcare about how they feel.
I agree, and I think that madea huge difference.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
It did make a huge difference.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Expect to go down that path.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I know me neither.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Biggest leadership win.
So what's a proud leadershipmoment and what made it
meaningful for you, your team oryour business?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
I think there's been a lot of small wins.
I don't know if I remember ahuge.
I think for me well back thenmaybe not so much now, but I
remember as menial as thissounds, I think, when you're in
the everyday minutia of businessand being with your team and
people, I think being recognizedfor me was huge.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Like just small things.
It's genuine human nature.
People actually need thatvalidation.
I feel like it was.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Even I think I just said it not too long ago I go.
Can I remember when we used todo the you know throw the
paydays and you know give outstupid paper awards that I'd
watch them make Just meant theworld.
It was a huge win, like, yay,we got.
I remember Kristen, like hey,look at our team got this.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
You know I've learned over the years that, not that
you want to not pay people whatthey're worth.
Absolutely.
Pay people what they're worthIf you can like.
I mean, sometimes you justcan't.
The business can't sustain andyou have to figure out ways.
But you know, respect and honorpeople.
But sometimes people will staywith you.
They'll come to work with youbecause you care about them or
they know you care.

(25:25):
Recognize them, even if youcan't afford to pay them as much
as the next guy.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I agree Very much and it's nice to be appreciated.
It's been just a little bit.
I think that's a huge win initself, just to be appreciated.
Yeah, you have to pay the billsand you have to eat.
It's nice to be appreciated.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
What about vulnerability?
Think that leaders should bevulnerable with their teams.
I know exactly what you'regoing to say.
I'm thinking of an exampleright now Extent.
I think that I asked you thequestion and now I'm just
answering it.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, just answer, do you?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
remember the one person that you were talking
about.
Like you went in to have acoaching session, session or
leadership session and then theyjust start crying and telling
you like all their problems.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Absolutely.
Was that what you were thinkingabout when you said to it?

Speaker 1 (26:10):
I remember you coming to me, like Colleen.
I cannot have this personleading me or mentoring me or
coaching me.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, I get it.
I get it and I'm glad, but Iyou should be paying me, I'm
paying you, you should be payingme and you just you're yes.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
So I think that's when you said to a point, but I
also think that there's valueand transparency.
Yeah, sharing your story.
I've shared some things on hereand I haven't even even really
started to open up fully yet,but I've shared some of those
stories with my team and theyknow kind of the some of the
things I've been through because, well, and I remember one of
the leadership roles that I waswalking into, one of our leaders

(26:47):
came in and he talked about thestory of where he started and
how he built his way and wherehe came from, and it gave me
hope and inspiration andopportunity to strive for, gave
me something to grow towards.
I think that you know, it'sjust like anything else.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Everything we're talking about today is like
there's don't be an extremistright, like that's the bottom
line, right, like Don't you lose, like I.
I used to teach class and Iused to start.
It just reminds me of somethingI used to start it off saying
that you know I was a stay athome mom, you can do this, you
know like you can do this youcan.

(27:23):
So I think there is somethingto be said to let everybody know
where you started, where youcame from, and how much you can
grow and you know what you cando.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
I would say that being vulnerable to a point is
good, because you do want to beauthentic, yes, but also people
don't want to be authentic.
Yes, but also people don't wantto follow a weak leader.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
I was, you took the words right out of my mouth,
literally came to mind Like no,I don't, I can't.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
I've stood up in front of a room and I've told a
story, where I've had a tear ortwo shed, but for the most part
you don't see me running aroundcrying about this or crying
about that, like if I put my biggirl's pants, my girl pants on
I said this the other day and Iget back on and I go out and do
what needs to get done.
So I think people want, and Ithink leadership is about role

(28:15):
modeling the behaviors that youwant to see in the people that
you're leading.
So if you can't, I meanleadership's a lot like
parenting.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
I thought of that when we first, when we just
first sat down today.
I thought, oh, it's just likeparenting your kids, like
leading your children.
I mean you lead them to do youwant to.
You want to lead them and to bethe best human that they can be
.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
You want to empower them to be self-sufficient, but
still respect and follow whatyou've taught them.
And it makes me think ofanother leadership lesson, which
is whether you delegatesomething or you abdicate
something, because people arelike, oh well, I just gave them
that to do.
Well, did you delegate it andgive them direction and guidance

(28:59):
and some parameters?
Or just abdicate, where you'rejust like, just take care of
this and so, um, I mean, being aparent is a lot like that too.
You wouldn't just tell yourkids, okay, figure it out, go
eat.
No, you'd be like, okay,there's this, I put this for you
, you have this blah blah.
So you set them up for successright, and then you'll have
success and it makes your lifeeasier.
So some of the work that you doon the front end to lead them

(29:22):
and to share with them and togive them guidelines and so
forth, I think is really helpful.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
And that is huge Like you started off saying, like
when we sat down, you startedoff saying that you know what
are some of your downfalls orwhat is your biggest mistake.
And I said it is not taking thetime to invest and teach you,
just do it yourself.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
On the flip side, don't micromanage.
True, we have a friend that isa huge micromanager.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's brutal.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's brutal.
So great point because yes.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
And I don't want anyone micromanaging me.
If you're breathing over myshoulder, get the hell away from
me.
Like, just tell me what I needto do, give me some parameters
and guidelines around it.
So if you want people like meto work with you, then you're
going to have to give me somegoals, give me some guidelines.
Don't just have me figure itall out on my own because it'll
take me longer to get there.
Give me some guidelines, give mesome goals.

(30:21):
What are the goalposts alongthe way?
That's another one.
How about leaders who areconstantly moving the goalposts
so you feel like you can neversucceed with them?

Speaker 2 (30:30):
I felt like that, a lot Like what is your goal?
This year we set yearly goalsand it was something atrocious
Isn by the disheartening it andby the fourth year I was like
what?

Speaker 1 (30:45):
like.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
I no, I can't, like I can't.
So I think they have to be umrealistic, because then you do
go down a rabbit hole like, oh,I'm not good enough, I didn't
hit my goals.
I haven't hit my goals in threeyears.
Why?
Why am I doing this?

Speaker 1 (31:00):
This is stupid Blah blah, blah, blah blah, but yet
you were growing every year, andyet you didn't feel good about
it no, not at all.
And so, to me, that's not thekind of leader I want to be.
I want my people to be pushedand grown, but I also want them

(31:22):
to life on this planet.
Right yeah, you only have onelife on this planet, and if you
feel miserable and you feel putdown and you feel like shit all
the time, how is that?

Speaker 2 (31:28):
It's not conducive to what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
It's definitely not epic.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
No, for sure, right, yeah no.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
So I don't know.
I just want to summarize someof the things that we talked
about so far and then we'll kindof go into the next section
here.
So I think leadership isleading by example, you bet.
I think it's about being kindSure, it's about that middle
ground, it's understanding thatthere's different perspectives,
asking good questions.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Right being a good listener to your people.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
That's huge one, right, being a good listener to
your people, that's huge too.
I didn't realize till you justsaid that, like you know
listening about.
You know what we just talkedabout, about political views,
like why do you feel that way?
Or why does this feel like youhave to learn to be kind, listen
to understand.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I think very few people even know what side of
the political spectrum I'm on orwhere I am, because I don't
talk about it, because I am moreof a person like I don't really
care what side you're on.
If you're a good person, you'rea good person.
I agree, and I love beingaround people who are like that.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
I agree, I feel like you there and there are some
good points on both sides andyou do have to listen.
And I'm thinking about a clientthat you know just was complete
opposite, but sat there and wehad a discussion for an hour
during an inspection.
It was great, it kind of openedmy eyes.

(32:57):
That was a good point.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
How about celebrating the wins?
How do you celebrate with yourteam or I?

Speaker 2 (33:05):
think we always correct me if I'm wrong.
I think we always did a goodjob with celebrating.
I feel like a lot of times inthe office.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I mean, we just started doing.
No, here's the thing when youknow better, know better, do
better absolutely as a leader,and as a person and as a human,
when you know better do betterright, and here's the thing
we're always learning.
I started out at the beginningis like at one way to be a good
leader is to constantly growyourself.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Sure you can fill your bucket so you can pour into
the buckets of the people thatyou're leading you think and I
don't mean to cut you up don'tyou think that all these years
really of of learning and makingmistakes and growing, really
you take all of that and I feellike that's kind of what we're

(33:52):
growing here now, oh for sure,and harvesting?

Speaker 1 (33:56):
oh, I, like, I am so excited about what we're
building now in our group, inour our network in our
organization, because I get totake all the stuff that was
shoved down my throat, siftthrough it all and say this I
liked and this I liked and thisworked and that was shit.
And it's going over there Likeand kind of.
You know, next week we're goingto talk about teams and

(34:18):
building a team and what's it'slike to be on a team and what's
it's like to lead a team.
So to talk about teams andbuilding a team and what's it's
like to be on a team and what'sit's like to lead a team.
So it's kind of a good seguefrom this.
But I've had some fire, a lot ofpeople that I didn't want to
fire, like people that weregenuine good friends of mine.
I had to fire my niece but shedidn't.
They didn't talk to me foryears, like it was.
It was heartbreaking anddevastating and here I'm labeled
as the ice queen, right, like Iwanted to, wanted to do that,

(34:39):
like I want to just make peoplecry, but I don't think people.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Let's just say this I don't think people understood
that it was people above you andthe standards that they tried
to hold you to, or that theyheld you to and the standards
above them.
It really all did.
I was there.
I know you saw behind the eyes.
A lot of the stuff that wasdone and said was from your

(35:04):
bosses or people above you, andthat's part of being a leader.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
A leader is sometimes you have to do things that are
uncomfortable, sure, that youdon't want to do.
But also there were times wherethat's probably why I've got
some other issues that I'mworking through right now where
you have to stand up ifsomebody's for something that
you believe is not right, sure,like there were times where I
was told you have to make yourpeople do this, you have to make
your people do that, and I'mlike, no, I'm not doing it,

(35:30):
right, yeah, that's stupid, I'mnot doing it, or that's.
You know, if you preach thatyou care family first and
business later, then why are yougoing to push that on people?
That's disingenuous, a lot of.
If you preach integrity, butthen you say one thing and do
something else, that's notreally integrity, sure.
And so, you know, I've called alot of people out on their shit

(35:52):
in my journey and, as a result,you know, I got a little
blackballed, a little bit.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
A little.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
But what I'm saying is like part of being a leader
is um, you have to make toughchoices, but also you have to
stand up, sometimes even if youknow you get kicked out of the
leadership yeah, I think that Ithere's a lot kicked out of the
circle you did, but sometimesit's not a circle you want to be
in so going back to how youstarted this thing that we're
building now that, um, you knowwe're part of an organization

(36:24):
that their motto is work hard,be kind, you bet, so that aligns
with the core values.
Now I've been part of otherorganizations where they have
these core values that good, butpeople didn't follow.
Now right.
So, like walking the walk, Ithink is important also, um, us
being able to build somethingwhere we can take these

(36:45):
leadership lessons of you know,really getting rolling your
sleeve up and getting down intoit with the people and not just
telling people what to do, butactually being in it with them.
I think is important being kind, um, being kind I heard a
leadership lesson once, or aleadership you know kind of
quote, or whatever is like.
A good leader gets down on yourlevel, takes your hand and

(37:09):
walks, yes, to the next spot.
Doesn't just wave to you fromabove and say come on up, yeah,
helping walk you along that pathand that's how we learn that's
how we learn I might not pickyou up and carry you, but I will
hold your hand and walk withyou, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I feel like that helps you learn.
It gets you all to the sameplace.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
But I think, as a leader too, you also have to let
people make mistakes.
You have to give thempermission, room to fail.
Sure, and this is where I wouldargue with Bart a lot too, my
husband, so he's like one ofthose.
What do they call those peoplethat are coaching from the
sidelines in the football game,like the couch, the Monday
morning coach, or whatever thatcan see from the sidelines, but
you're not actually in theredoing it right, there's a word

(37:51):
for that.
I'll think of it later.
You guys can make fun of me,comment and tell me what the
word is that I'm thinking ofwhat is the word yeah.
But anyway, he would be like oh, you know you let him do this?

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
You have to give people.
If you have an environmentthat's constantly has people
living in fear of failure,you're not going to give them
room to blossom and grow.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
I think that's a, that's a lesson learned, because
I could yeah, I could think ofsome instances that that always
was not.
You know, it was either thisway or the highway.
This way or the highway.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
There's been a lot of good nuggets so far.
I'm going to go back and listento this and, like, reorganize
them all into, like good talkingpoints because, I feel like
they might be a little scatteredbut they're good.
What's a quality or skillyou've developed as a leader?
That is now you consider yoursuperpower.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I don't know.
That's a good one.
It's a good question.
I'll think of it probably whenI'm eating popcorn tonight.
You know I've learned so manythroughout.
I mean some good, some bad, butI feel like really.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Do you want me to tell you what your superpower is
?
Go?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
ahead, because you're too humble sometimes.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
That's a problem for you.
You're like oh, I don't know,I'm going to be humble.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
No, I'm going to tell you some of your superpowers,
please, because I can, I'll tellyou First of all.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
even when you're being harsh with someone, you're
very kind.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
I was just going to say understanding.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah, you are very like.
You can tell someone like thatoutfit is hideous and have them
smiling and hugging you for it.
Yeah, like, and you don't sayit that way.
Like, whatever it is, you canbe very firm and harsh with
people and do it in the mostkind manner that I've ever seen
anyone do it.
You are a very kind person, buta very but.

(39:33):
You don't sugarcoat that, youdon't hold back Like, you don't
lie to them, but you're verykind and that is a super hard
and I wish I had that, becauseI'm like I'm like all in their
face and then they're crying andI'm like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Let me give you a hug, right?

Speaker 2 (39:46):
yeah, I feel like understanding a lot of the
things that I've learned overthe years.
Is that I mean?
Because, god, you've seen me,I'm lunatic?

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Kim comes barreling down the hallway and I'm like
come in my office, close thedoor, like I know she's got
something yeah.
But you also knew that as aleader.
Here's another example that youcould come to me as your leader
and it was a safe place and wecould close the door and you
could vent and you could getthat out, and then I would help
you walk through that and thenyou would be okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
And I think that was for me.
It was many years of like that,like hothead, blow my head off
or blow somebody's head off.
But then you learn theconsequences of doing that to
people always don't make youfeel good and you don't get the
outcome that you were searchingfor.
So why not approach it withunderstanding, although you're
stern and you need it done.
But I felt like all the timesthat I let loose came unglued,

(40:49):
really didn't work, and then Iwas the one fucking going home
like ugh.
Well, it wasn't serving you, itwasn't serving me Like I was so
mean and that was terrible andwould I want somebody to do that
.
At least you didn't getnicknamed the ice queen.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
That is true, but I think that here's so.
There's another thing whereyou're, when you're in a quote
unquote titled leadership role,you're under a microscope and a
spotlight.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Sure, that was definitely.
I think you said it, you did,you said you were held to these
standards and I think your jobrode on those.
You didn't do those or hitthose.
You didn't have a job.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, which is also and I know there were certain
ways that I was made to feelthat I never wanted to put
someone else in that position.
So, as a leader, I've learnedto manage through that.
So there's ways that you cancommunicate to people, and I
think if you come from a placeof, first of all, you have to

(41:47):
know what's important to peopletoo.
I would think so that wasanother thing.
As a leader, I knew why youwere doing what you.
Why did you work there?
Like, why did, why were you apart of our organization?
Like what was important to you,what was your goal or your
dream, or your why, as they callit right?
Like what's important to you?
Your kids are important to you,being able to have a career and

(42:08):
still be a great mom For you.
I'm just giving an example, butevery single person that I led.
I knew something about them andwhat was important to them in
order to be a good leader.
Now, if I didn't, then I feltlike I was failing as a leader,
and so sometimes I'd have totake notes, but I also was
blessed with a good memory so Icould remember things about
people Used to.

(42:30):
The older I get, the harder itgets, I know.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
But I think knowing what's important to people and
knowing what drives them.
And so I think, as a leader,probably one of the first things
you should do is sit down andget to know your people, get to
know what's important to them,get to know what makes them tick
, what drives them.
Why are they part of yourorganization?

(42:53):
Why do they want to be there?
No-transcript.
There was another quote thatsaid people don't work with you
because they're obedient.
People work with you becausethey see you as a vehicle to
their own goals and dreams.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
I agree with that.
I'm thinking about look at howbig like our company has grown,
look how big Real has grown thepast year.
And we were at where were we?
Downtown?
And the president was like hi,colleen, how's things going?
Like that's?
You know what I mean?
Like you, even though there's20,000 people 26,000 now.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
See, when we started, there was like 5,000.
I remember it's grown so fast.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I remember talking like real.
I never heard of them Like theyhad 6,000 people.
Like real, I never heard ofthem Like they had 6,000 people
and I was like what do we?

Speaker 1 (43:48):
do what, but I mean it's nice.
But I think it's thatphilosophy, that's the work hard
, be kind philosophy.
It's understanding who thepeople are that you're in
business with and reallycreating an environment of where
you care about people, whereit's collaboration over
competition and all those things.
So I think your core value isin what you start with and I
keep talking over you.
I'm sorry, that's okay, I'mjust getting excited.

(44:09):
No, that's the topic I feelpassionate about.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
I know, but I also think you're good at it.
I also think this is what whereyou flourish, see, thanks, yeah
, and that's coming fromsomebody that watches, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
You're very kind, thank you.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
That I am.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Your superpower For me a superpower, I would say,
that, like something that I'vedeveloped over the years, is, I
would say, asking greatquestions to really understand
what helps people tick.
Yep, and even questions, notjust to learn about them, but
questions that lead them downthe path to get them to their
goals.
Tell me more about that.

(44:45):
Well, that's actually astatement, not a question but it
is a statement.
That is a question.
Yeah, I use that one a lot.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
You do.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
But I think that's important because if you can
understand what makes peopletick, you're going to lead them
down that path of getting themwhere they want to go, I agree.
It's almost like science, likeyou're dissecting something.
I agree.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
It's almost like science, like you're dissecting
something.
It's like science taking thingsapart and seeing how they worked
.
That's why I love what we'redoing here.
I love it because it is aboutunderstanding.
You know the people that we'rewith.
You know, once you canunderstand them, you can speak
to them in the way that theywant to be.
You know you're going to getwhat you need.
I think it's all about give andtake as well too, because if we

(45:28):
don't understand the peoplethat we're with, then how do you
grow or how do you move forward?
I mean, we're all so different,you know different
personalities and you knowdifferent humans.
But if we don't know how tospeak to them and we're not kind
and you know, I want to knowwhat they're doing.
I want to know what Mike'sdoing.
How did he get four listingsthis week?
How did he get doing that?

Speaker 1 (45:49):
What about standards?
How do you feel like standardsplay into this?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
It's a huge part of it.
Standards I think we all needthem.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
As a leader?
Do you think how you displayyour standards or what your
standards are like impact?
You show up as a leader or howpeople view you as a leader.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yep.
And that all goes back to forme, I think people are always
watching.
So if you don't have some typeof standard or and I just don't
mean like goals, like standardsin business, like I mean just in
my, my daily life Well it'sinteresting.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So I was wondering if you were going to go there,
because I've heard people say,well, if you don't enforce your
standards, then you don't haveany and blah blah.
But I think they're trying toforce production standards on
people and I believe this issomething that took me a long
time in leadership to learn overthe years.
I believe that it's not mybusiness or my job or my right

(46:49):
to force my goals on someoneelse, so I can't say, well, if
you're going to be on my team,you have to have 45 deals this
year.
Whatever, that's not my right.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
It doesn't make you feel good.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
But I can have.
I saw a girl I know, jen, whohad a video on this on her
Instagram the other day abouthow she runs her team and her
business, and saying that, likethese are independent
contractors that you're dealingwith too, so you can't
necessarily have you have to bein the office nine to five and
you have to do that.
That's actually illegal becausewe're you know, irs guidelines

(47:23):
are 1099 versus whatever.
So I'm not an accountant, I'mnot an attorney, but you can
consult with one to find out.
But what I'm saying is I'veseen people that lead their team
like, oh, this is our standardand this is our standard, and
this is our standard and mystandard is more about how you
treat people, how we treat eachother.
Like we had a girl on our teamwho's gone now, yep, and she was

(47:44):
constantly complaining throughthe cancer um, she tried to not
pay someone a referral.
That was like there were somethings that she did and I'm like
the person that will give you achance, right, like maybe you
don't know.
So I, I had it and I had to putit in writing because that's a
great hack.
Uh, chat gtp has made me alittle more kind because

(48:06):
sometimes, like they'll tease me, they're like, oh, colleen's
angry typing what's going on,right, all the buttons like I'm
I'm gonna fly off the handle, soI'll type something up and then
I'll put it in chat and I'mlike, can you make this a little
kinder make?

Speaker 2 (48:18):
this perfect and I make you baldo.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Do that too, because he's like I'm like you made the
poor virtual assistants cry.
I'm like, can you be nicer,please like.
And he doesn't mean it that way, like his heart's in the right
place.
But so that's a lesson, aleadership lesson for all of us.
So chat um can help us likesoften our words a little bit
sometimes, but anyway I had toput in for this girl.
She was, she was nasty very muchso she was not nice and she you

(48:43):
know I'm sure I'm the bad guyand I'm okay.
So that's part of beingleadership.
Is you have to be okay beingthe bad guy sometimes too?
Like, all right, that's fine,kim can be the nice one, I'll be
, the bad guy.
That's how it goes right, but Ihad to lay it out like okay,
we've given you an opportunity.
Our standard is is that wedon't run around complaining to
everyone who will listen if youdon't like it.

(49:03):
Nobody's forcing you to stayhere leave.
I am totally.
There will be no hard feelingsif you want to go.
I only want to work with peoplewho want to work with me and
who we can have a not just funtogether but grow together,
learn together, have successtogether.
And if you don't want to be apart of that, just go.
But I put it, I was like, hey,here's your chance.

(49:24):
You take a few days and youthink about it.
Here's our standards forbehavior, basically, and how we
treat you know how we treat theoffice, how we treat the
environment, because, also yourenvironment, you have to protect
that environment if you want tohave success in your business
right, I agree.
And so I laid that all out andshe's like, oh, no, no, no, I
want to stay.
And then, like three weekslater, she slithered out the

(49:45):
door and didn't even sayanything.
Well, I think that which wasfine.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
I was like well, and I think that goes, we bring in
to our organization.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Well, that's where you're a little bit better than
me on that, because you're likemore well even, but you're
softer than Bart and Ubaldo.
They're like no.
I know they're, oh, no, no no,and I'm like well, let's give
them a chance, because here'sthe thing too is it the
environment that's making themshow up like that?
Because, like, if you're in acrappy, shitty environment with

(50:14):
a lot of backstabbing andnegativity, are you just being
that way because that's whatyou're around?
And if we plucked you out ofthat environment and put you in
ours, would you show updifferently?
Maybe, and, and so I alwaysgive people the benefit of the
doubt, but the minute you startbringing some of that toxicity
into our environment, you got togo Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I've seen it both ways.
I've seen it where it's beenreally really good and then I've
seen where it's been really,really bad and toxic and you're
like.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
You're right, it is like a cancer it is.
I said that from the beginning.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
I'm're right, it is like a cancer, it is I said that
from the beginning I'm like.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
This is like a cancer .
It just grows and it makeseverybody yucky and it's funny
because the one person thatbrought that person in after
they left she was like, oh, I'mso glad she's gone because she
was afraid it was making herlook bad.
I know I was like, no, you'refine, it wasn't you, yeah.
So I think standards on conductand behavior and how people act
.
I've had a few agents I had tofire other years.

(51:07):
I remember one that and likeeven one that I had to fire
because of you know just vulgarthings they were posting out
there in the world likederogatory comments, and then I
was told I couldn't fire theperson, even though I did.
And then I was called a lot ofnames because I fired the person
.
And then I was called a lot ofnames because I fired the person
.
And then people that you knowhow you show up is a reflection

(51:28):
on the rest of the people, likeabuse of drugs and alcohol.
I had to fire people like thatand I have the biggest soft spot
for that, because I have familymembers who struggle with
addiction every single day.
I've got plenty of them.
I mentioned my ex, who's nowdeceased, who had huge addiction
issues, and so I have a softspot for that.

(51:49):
But you also have to realizehow it impacts the other people
in the business.
So I can help, you get help,but you can't stay and be in
that way.
Yeah, be that cancer or be thattoxic.
Absolutely.
These are good ones at the end.
These are really good, like thetail end of this was better
than the first half.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Yeah, I hope people will listen all the way through.
I know, yeah, it makes you godown rabbit like.
There's so much I can say aboutit.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, there are some good bunny trails once you get
the dialogues flowing.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
I just go down the list in my head of all the
people I've had to get out ofbusiness with.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Is it because of?
Do you think?
Let me just ask you this Do youthink, over the years, that you
, the people being in leadership, the people that you've let go
or that have been removed?
Do you think it was?
Let me just ask you do youthink it was personal or do you
think it?

Speaker 1 (52:36):
was you mean?
Do I?
Have I fired people because ofpersonal, like I just didn't
like them?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
or Maybe because other people didn't like them.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Well, I think it depends.
So we're going through a lot ofdifferent history here, right?
So like when I was in a rolewhere I had to be the middleman
and the bad guy, like they talkabout you.
You know who's the hatchet man.
I've had to be the hatchet manfor a lot of time and there were
people that I genuinely caredabout and genuinely liked.
But I was told either you getrid of this person or so.

(53:05):
So that's happened.
But I've also.
I've had some people that we'vegotten out of business with,
that in in a team role or a teamcapacity, who I'm still great
friends with and who I've like alot of my best friends now are
people that I've coached overthe years or who worked for me.
So, like one of my really goodfriends, I'll give you a shout
out Anita.
Like we got out of businesstogether but it was because she

(53:28):
needed the right opportunity forher, right, and we're like best
friends still and she works ata completely different company,
yeah, and she's grown andflourished in that role and I'm
so proud of her.
But if I had kept her in therole that she was in with me,
like we just had a conversationand we were both crying and I'm
like is this really the rightthing for you?
And she's like no, it's not.
And and the environment suckedfor both of us to be honest with

(53:49):
you, like neither one of us arein that business anymore, in
that particular company anymore,right, but so I think there's
plenty of people, I think thenumber one leadership lesson
that I'm like.
Every time we do one of theseepisodes, I feel like there's
like a thread that runs throughit.
At the end I'm like ah, that'sit.
So like last week it was likewho's in your circle, right?

(54:10):
This week it's like havinghonest conversations and really
understanding what's importantto people and asking great
questions Like that.
If you do that, you can leadyour way through anything.
And I think you have to havesome confidence too, though.
Sure, because if you don't have, if you're like all weak and
timid and you can't like, right,but I don't think you can have
tough conversations and askquestions and learn about people

(54:33):
if you're weak and timid.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
No.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
I think you have to have confidence that what you're
doing is valuable and thatyou're going to help people, and
then you can kind of guidethrough that.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
So I don't know if I answered your question or not,
but I was just trying to findout like, or really just put it
out there, that you know,sometimes we do things because
we have to do that.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Oh yeah, there were people that I was fired, that I
was told you have to fire thisperson, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
And I just kind of wanted to put it out there for
everybody who's listening Allthe creepers that are listening.
I feel like sometimes thingswere blown out of proportion and
things said and maybe itnecessarily wasn't.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
And I will tell you there is not one person that I
went home after.
I had to let them go and then Ifelt like I did that.
No, it genuinely hurt my heartevery single time.
Yep, Every single time, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
There was a couple times I was like oh, yep, ouch,
here we go.
You know that, you think youknow sitting back, or you know
on the sidelines, like oh,Leadership is not for the faint
of heart?
No, it is not.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
No, it's.
You know.
It wears on your heart deeply,especially if you're a leader
who cares about your people.
If you're just someone who'sjust stepping on people to climb
your way up the ladder, maybeyou don't care about all the
people you step out along theway, but for me, it literally
took a piece of a piece, a chunkof my heart, every single time
like oh, and I don't thinkpeople know that.

(56:02):
Basically, yeah, pretty much youknow, I will never forget that
that girl's sitting in there andI'm sorry, you know she goes.
You're not sorry, I'm like, Ireally am sorry.
No, you're not, you're just theice queen and I'm like, and
everyone like, there's people.
We had glass windows around myoffice and everyone's like
looking in the windows, throughthe glass, and I'm like, oh my

(56:24):
gosh, and I felt bad.
But you also, when you'rerunning an organization, you
have to be like I couldn't justsay okay, no, forget it, but you
go back on that one butsometimes each step on the
journey takes you to the placeyou're meant to be next, so
maybe it took that person towhere they were supposed to be
next.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
And maybe not.
Some people don't handlerejection, and then they wallow
in it and then I feel even worseabout it.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
I'm like oh did I do something to impact that
person's future, I agree.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
So I think lessons learned are there's ways to get
into business with people andout of business with people.
As a leader, sometimes I did itright, sometimes I did it wrong
that we're learning about.
I think, well, yeah, and I thinkdive deeper into that a little
bit more on the next episode too, when we talk about teams.
Yeah, because we're going totalk about teams and kind of
because I ran a team, I ranoffices, solo agent, so I've
like seen all the differentperspectives and we're going to
bring kristin on as a guest totalk about how she experienced

(57:16):
it from the other end right,that should be interesting, like
because she was on a coupledifferent teams, including mine
I think it's good to seedifferent perspectives
absolutely like what that feelslike for those of you that are
looking to build something orgrow something.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
I agree That'll be a good one.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
So, final thoughts.
What do you have to say aboutleadership in terms of final
thoughts?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
It's not for the weak .

Speaker 1 (57:37):
No, it's definitely not for the faint of heart,
that's for sure, actually, youknow what to be courageous.
You have to be courageous, youhave to be strong, you have to
be confident, you have to reallybe willing to take it on the
chin a few times.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Well, going through this today really makes me think
like do you really got to lovewhat you do?
Because it is not for thefainthearted.
I'm just sitting here thinkinglike there's people that you've.
You know what I mean.
We talked that, we were friendswith that, I that vacation

(58:09):
together.
They got the ex.
Yeah, that I was like oh.
And I'm sitting here thinkinglike, really it is not for the
fainthearted.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Well, I will tell you and I don't I'm sure I've
shared this before and maybethis is a good kind of closing
way to kind of tie a bow on thisis you said you really have to
love what you do for me.
I know personally how much realestate changed my life forever
me too and what that did for meas a single mom and then raising
kids, and I could have easilyjust been scraping by and

(58:41):
struggling for the rest of mylife, until the rest of the days
on my planet.
Maybe my kids would be okay,maybe not.
I know how powerful that was.
So for me, the driving forcewas if I could then pour that
into other people and change thetrajectory of their life and
their future for them and theirkids and whether they're a young
parent or a single parent orjust a person who's trying to

(59:03):
get on the track, that's whatdrove me to take it on the chin
when I needed to, or have that.
Like when you have a powerfulthing driving you that you can
make a difference.
Like first of all, obviously itwas for my family like I wanted
to do it for my family, but Icould have went on selling on my
own and done it for my family.
That next step is because whenyou want to pay it forward, I
think and so for me it was myway of paying it forward.

(59:25):
So there were a lot of timesyou're right that I got labeled
the big bad wolf.
Yeah, here comes colleen thebig bad wolf.
And it doesn't help when youhave rbf.
To begin with too, it's like Idon't know if you guys noticed,
but you know, you guys know whatrbf is right, so I've already
got that.
And then they're like oh, she'skind of mean yeah, I heard it a
it a lot.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
It's called stoic.
I think so For sure.
Well, I think this was a goodone.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
It was a little deep, it was deep, it was deep,
definitely deep.
So I would just encourage anyof you out there that are on
your leadership journey and kindof taking your way Look at how
you can show up as a leader, howyou can still be authentic and
be respected.
Work hard, be kind, care aboutyour people, ask lots of

(01:00:12):
questions, know that it's notgoing to be easy, but it is
going to be worth it.
I think so, for sure.
And then you get to end upbuilding something you really
really love and be around peoplethat you really really love and
enjoy and that's for me whereit's at.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
That's where we are now.
Yeah, we have a greatorganization.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Leadership is not for the faint of heart, God no.
Well, if this episode resonatedwith you, hit the subscribe
button and share it with yourcrew.
Give us a review.
It helps us reach more peopledoing epic shit.
And if you've got a leadershiplesson or story that changed the
game for you, DM us, tag us onsocial.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
We'd love to share your story on next week episode
and just to hear yeah, I'd loveto hear from everybody and what
they think about leadership orwhat are some tips and tricks
that they had too.
There you go, do epic shit,peace out.