The Imposter Within with Rocky Garza

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Ever feel like an imposter? Imagine unlocking the secrets to self-acceptance and a confidence that resonates from within. That's exactly what clarity coach and speaker Rocky Garza invites us to do in a conversation that is as raw as it is revolutionary. With Rocky's guidance, we peel back the layers of our own narratives to confront the fears and desires that mold our identities. It's a journey that promises not just insights but transformative action through the art of identity mapping, challenging our thoughts, and embracing vulnerability.

As we navigate the intricacies of self-awareness, Rocky introduces us to the impactful concept of identity mapping, helping us articulate our values and live more genuine lives. We discover the power of core values, the clarity they bring to decision-making, and the strength that comes with knowing oneself beyond professional titles. Through personal stories and candid confessions, Rocky and I also tackle the warrior's spirit within us all, preparing us for the daily battles of life with emotional readiness and a mindset that cultivates growth and healing in the face of adversity.

The episode culminates in an exploration of the profound effects of forgiveness, reconciliation, and the importance of vulnerability in personal development. We hear heart-touching narratives of making amends, the courage it takes to mend strained bonds, and the enduring connections that result. And for those on a quest to be guided to their best selves, Rocky's own story illustrates the life-altering power of coaching, providing a beacon of hope for anyone feeling lost or stuck. Join us for this incredible journey with Rocky Garza, and step into the clarity and confidence that awaits.

Bio: Rocky Garza is extremely good at one thing, helping individuals see the clearest picture of themselves that they’ve ever seen. Clarity about who you are, what you do, and why you do it makes you a better employee, friend, parent, and spouse. How much more focused would you be at your job if you were acutely aware of what your strengths are and how to utilize them best? How much more sure would you feel about making big life decisions knowing that your core values aligned with your choice? Answers

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:43):
All right, welcome back everybody to another
episode of the Do Our Thingspodcast.
I'm your host, jt Running Coach, certified High Performance
Mindset Coach, and I'd like towelcome you to another episode
of the Do Our Things podcast,where we intersect the topics of
high performance, mindset andendurance sports, and it's been
a minute since we've had aninterview on here, but I'm

(01:06):
honored and excited to have ourguest today, rocky Garza, to
come in today, and Rocky Garzais a renowned clarity coach and
speaker.
We're going to talk aboutexperiencing more freedom in
life and living with confidence,and I'll read you his bio in a
second.
But let me show up the businessend real quick.
So this episode is sponsored byDo Heart Things Nation, which
is a veteran owned event andapparel company that promotes an

(01:26):
active lifestyle, developingmental and physical toughness
through events, running coaching, mindset coaching in person and
virtual events so you candominate life.
Go over to DoOurThingsNationcom.
We have a high quality apparelthat inspires you to do hard
things.
You can join the Facebookcommunity, the mailing list,
submit a recommendation for theweekly winner and, yeah, just

(01:47):
see all the events that we havecoming up.
We've got a bunch of stuffcoming up, so you're going to
want to keep tabs over there, sogo DoOurThingsNationcom and see
the latest and greatest.
So let me introduce to you ourguest, so, rocky Garza.
Here's his intro.
So, after graduating with acommunications degree from Texas
A&M University, rocky hashelped thousands of individuals
find their clarity while servingas the director of a youth camp

(02:09):
on the pastoral staff at ChaseOaks Church, owning and
operating multiple creativebusinesses, and even, most
recently, as a coach to highachievers and acclaimed keynote
speaker to purpose drivencompanies.
In all of his roles, rocky'shad one goal to challenge the
stories we tell ourselves so wecan experience the freedom and
confidence of living vulnerably.

(02:30):
Clarity, transformation andfreedom.
That's why Rocky does what hedoes.
That's why everyone of hiscoaching sessions, workshops and
keynotes can be boiled down toone simple truth that who you
are is good.
Rocky, I appreciate you takingthe time to be here.
How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I'm doing wonderful, Jay.
I appreciate it.
Thanks so much for having me onthe show.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I love the topic of clarity.
As someone that is aperformance coach myself and in
a big life transition, I'mtrying to figure out who I am.
I like the very last line thereof who you are is good.
I had a period in my life whereI didn't love myself and it's

(03:16):
hard to be effective.
It's hard to love other people.
It's hard to just be happy inlife or clear about who you are
if you don't love yourself.
As I've worked with clients inthe past, that's a topic that's
coming up and I love thatbecause you've got to love
yourself and you've got to knowthat you're good and you have to
be comfortable with yourselfand confident in yourself.

(03:37):
Tell us a little bit about whoyou are, what you do, and we'll
get into today's topic.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you having me on the
show.
I've been in the coaching andspeaking space for about the
last decade or so, workingmostly with organizations.
I always joke that I'm the onlykeynote speaker in the world
who's never had a corporate gigand never had a resume.
I think I find oftentimes Ifind myself in the environment,
in groups of places, where inthe first two or three minutes,

(04:04):
I walk out on stage or I get infront of the group and I think
to myself, I think like many ofus, and I go yo, this is a bad
idea, jake, like I shouldn't behere.
How did I get here?
Yeah, I'm looking around andI'm looking at credentials.
I'm looking at this.
I was recently at an eventIt'll this will tie in, I
promise.
I was recently at an event forspeakers and how to get better
bookings and so on.
At the table I was sitting at,I was sitting with a US Olympic

(04:25):
gold medalist, a three-timeCanadian gold medalist and an
NFL player, former pro bowlerand me.
The four of us were at a tabletogether and we were all
learning how to speak and how togrow our speaking business and
I had this exact same moment oflike.
So I yeah, I, I'm bald, I'vebeen, I'm married, you know like
got a couple of kids.

(04:45):
That was cool, accomplishedthat.
So but I think in those momentswhere we go like wait a second,
I look around, what ishappening.
How did I get here?
You know, for me it comes backto the statement you said.
I think that the phrase you aregood came from a place of
trying to simply, as possible,define what confidence is.
And confidence, for me at least, confidence, the way that I

(05:07):
like to define it is simply thebelief that something is good,
right, like we go and we see achair, we want to sit in a chair
, and we look at it, we give it,we give it half a second, we
make a quick assessment, we sitdown, we don't judge a while it
has four legs.
What makes a good chair?
Four legs, right, and we haveconfidence in that chair.
We can amplify the ability tobe confident in ourselves
because it's much more complexand there's a lot more woven
into our story than whether ornot we have four legs or not.

(05:29):
However, you look at a stooland a stool has three legs and
you think the stool is good too,and some sometimes you look at
a bike and it has two wheels andit's good.
But a unicycle has one wheel.
And so why do we think thatthings that don't match match
and we still think they're good.
Why do we still have confidenceto use them?
Well, because we have a storyabout those things that we've
been told that says this is whatmakes it good A bicycle.

(05:51):
The word in of itself says buy,it's got two wheels.
Does that have two wheels?
Yes, it must be good.
Then A unicycle to me soundslike a terrible idea.
I don't even want to try it.
But a person who rides aunicycle goes hey, it's good,
it's supposed to, it works.
Why?
Because we've been told thestory about why a vehicle with
one wheel works.
A lot of us if not all of us tosome degree, I believe have a

(06:14):
story about us that we've beentold that we are believing.
And if that story is notdirectly aligned to something
that we attribute to being good,we have a really hard time
looking in the mirror and thenbelieve it in ourselves.
And so for me, self-clarity,self-confidence it is not this
woo woo.
Look in the mirror, I'm good, Ilike my hair, I like my kids, I
like my, and I'm saying I'mnothing wrong with some morning

(06:35):
affirmations.
Hey, if that's you, get in thegym, get in the mirror and pump
yourself up, I'm all about it.
I don't believe, though, thatis a deep enough mechanism to
create a level of convictionabout our goodness, as opposed
to temporary motivation.
I'm all about motivation, butmotivation doesn't last.
When you got to do hard things,the only thing that lasts is
what it is.
You really believe.
What it is we really believe,though, I think, comes from a

(06:57):
deep understanding of who we arebefore we begin to perform, so
that our performance is theresult of the goodness that's
intrinsically inside of us, asopposed to let me go perform and
hope that someday, someone willfinally believe that I am in
fact good enough.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
I love all of that.
I um, in that moment, when youwere there and you're looking
around the room and you're kindof questioning yourself like man
, an Olympian over there NFLplayer, like well, it cause
cause, you kind of alluded tothat fact, you had a moment
where you're like you weren'tconfident.
How did you, how did you talkyourself up and remind yourself

(07:34):
that you know what I am good, Ideserve to be?

Speaker 2 (07:36):
here.
I have a message.
Yeah, yeah, that's a great,great question.
So I have a little tactic and Idon't.
It's been, it's been years.
I don't even know where thiscame from.
But I have a little tactic.
Is is I?
And?
And stay with me.
Let me get to the full analogy.
I, when I have a moment of likebro, this is not good for anyone
I try to pause and I just Ijust put my hand in my front

(08:00):
pocket, and typically it happensright before I go on stage.
So I'm at the little steps.
They're about to introduce you,the music's playing, they're
going to do the, the bio which,by the way, no one listens to
and so I got my, I put my handin my pocket and I keep a little
piece of paper.
Before I go on stage, I keep apiece of paper.
It's just blank, it has nothingwritten on it, but but I put my
hand in my pocket and I touchthat piece of paper and for me,
what I say to myself is I put myhand in my pocket and go Rocky,

(08:23):
that's the invitation.
Like, you've already beeninvited to the party.
They're just asking you to showup, and they're just asking you
to show up and be you at theparty.
They're not asking you to provewhy you deserve to be at the
party.
They're not telling you to beat the party and then be the
best entertainment there everwas, and they're just saying we
have already made a choice foryou to be here.

(08:44):
Remind yourself that you arealready invited and just show up
, because if you go out thereand you try to prove that you're
the best keynote speaker ever,it's not going to go well.
People are going to see throughyour BS immediately and be like
no, thank you.
I don't believe a word this guysaying.
But if I can go out there andattempt to just be me again,
full circle.
Back to why is it valuable toknow who we are?
Cause I got to get out thereand know who I am.

(09:05):
But my, my, my physical trigger, my physical mechanism is hey,
hold up Paper pocket invitation.
You've already been invited.
That you.
The party is literally for youto go to.
But you got to be willing toshow up, you got to go through
the front door, and so in thatmoment I literally did.
I was sitting there and I kindof leaned over a little bit and
kind of you know, with my handon my pocket, I was checking for

(09:26):
my phone, or something.
I thought to myself hey, youdidn't get invited here because
you have a gold medal.
That would be ridiculous,because you don't.
Hey, you know what, though,rocky?
I bet they didn't get invitedhere because they have a gold
medal.
I bet they got invited herebecause of who they are, which
is the same reason you gotinvited.
So why don't you just show upas who you are?

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I love having triggers like that, because when
you find yourself in thosemoments cause that's when you,
especially when you get ready togo speak, that's one of the
most it's almost like bungeejumping or jumping out of a
plane.
For me I can do it, but there'salways that moment of
interpretation and fear thatwhat if I come up here and say
something stupid?

(10:09):
But having that trigger just asa reminder, as a drill, to kind
of talk yourself off, causethat's your, that's your.
You know your mind can be aterrorist sometimes.
They can, it can do crazythings and tell you crazy
stories.
But I appreciate you sharingthat actual tactical thing that
you do.
I'm going to, I'm going to putthat one in my toolkit there.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, yeah, you know, when I think I think what you
just said there J is really,really important and I want to
say it again cause I think thisfor for listeners, I want to
make sure it's something that wecan remind ourselves of.
Our mind tells us crazy thingslike and I think a part of that
is is because and this is maybea little woo woo for some of us

(10:47):
I don't think that when we talkto ourself we can hear ourself
and I know that's a little, it'sa little meta, but I don't
think that when we are talkingto ourself we can actually hear
it.
We, we are saying it, buteverything we say makes sense,
or everything we say doesn'tmake sense.
Rarely do we have any kind ofself-logic.

(11:08):
Right, that's, that's a pick,pick, a category that exists on
a social platform.
That's why every method, at theroot of it, is the same.
Everyone just has their own twocents.
Right?
You should do whole 30.
You should do 75 hard.
You should do coal plunging.
You should do a sauna.
You should run running'sterrible.
You should only lift.
Lift, you know, hurt you.
I mean like it doesn't matterwhat it is, everybody has your.

(11:28):
But at the root of it.
What everyone is, I think, atthe root of what all those
things are is do you have amechanism to simplify your life
in a way that allows there to bea daily occurrence, that
creates this trigger to remindyou of what's true, to remind
you of what's possible, those,over and over and over again?
And so when we we can't hearourselves when we're talking to

(11:51):
ourselves which, to me, is whypeople like you and I I think,
hundreds of others, I thinkthankfully have the ability to
have the roles that we have inpeople's life is because I
believe a huge part of my job isI need you to just say that
shit out loud so that you canhear what it is you're saying to
yourself.
Because you can't hear it?
Because as soon as you hear theamount of people that I
interact with personally orprofessionally, and I think

(12:12):
they're saying I know whatthey're thinking and they say it
I can physically watch theirface change in front of me when
they hear out loud the thingsthey've been saying to
themselves.
It's the same reason we get madand we don't go to the mirror.
Nobody goes to the mirror andlooks at themselves in the eye
when they're angry at themselves, just to really get it out.
No, what do we do?
We hide from ourselves.
We go to a corner, we go whereit's dark, we go by ourselves.
We go to the couch, we go toour favorite chair, we go to

(12:34):
someplace we say is cozy, butwe're just running from the
ability to be clear withourselves about who we are and
what is true.
Because we wouldn't talk toourselves that way, because I
know we don't talk to our bestfriend that way, we don't say
that kind of shit to our wives,we don't say that to our friends
, we don't say that to our kids,we don't.
But we'll absolutely,specifically as men, we will
absolutely say it to us.
So how about this?
Why don't you just say it outloud to me?

(12:55):
I don't want to, you're right,because if you heard it you
would stop.
If you heard it, maybe youwould be faced with the reality
that you might discover what istrue.
And then then Rocky doesn'thave to sit at the table,
concerned that he doesn't have agold medal.
Rocky gets to sit at the tableand say there's something unique

(13:17):
and specific about me that I ambringing that is extraordinary
and unique and equally valuableto the other three people who
are sitting at this table withme.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
I love that idea because we say or we think the
most atrocious things aboutourselves, that we wouldn't even
think about our worst enemy,and to go through and say that
out loud and to your point wehide from ourselves, we hide
from these things.
So, excellent point.
Well, rocky, what is your corephilosophy behind your approach

(13:50):
when you help individuals gainclarity?
Right, that's what youtypically do.
What's your philosophy on that?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, so I, over the last decade or so, I've created
a process called identitymapping, and it's a process I
take individuals through one onone, I take groups through,
teams through, couples throughand really, the idea of identity
mapping.
It's four key components.
The first one is to reallyunderstand how your brain works.
You, specifically, your brain,works for you.
That kind of unravels andunfolds the foundation for us to

(14:20):
go.
Now let's build a language forwho we are on top of that, and
so I think I think most of us,if not all of us to some degree,
I do believe most people knowwho they are.
I think.
What happens, though, is I thinkthat we're illiterate.
I mean, I don't think we havethe right words to express
outwardly the thing we feelintrinsically, and so we have

(14:42):
this constant gap between whatwe believe to be true and our
ability to communicate what istrue, and the gap in there is
where most of us live.
We hang out in this perpetualno man's land of.
I feel something, but I don'tknow how to tell you what that
thing is.
Therefore, I'm just going totry to perform through the gap
so that, even if who I am is nottrue, at least I didn't suck.

(15:06):
It doesn't matter what it is,but at least I could perform my
way out.
So in going through identitymapping, we go okay, why don't
we pause before we get intodetermining this thing which is
Rocky's, not a guru?
I'm not your wizard.
You're going to find out a lotmore about you than you're going
to learn about me if we worktogether.
And why?
Because I need for you toextract out of there what's
already there.
But for most of us, the thingthat gets in our way is us, it's

(15:27):
how we think and it's our brain.
And so, to give a littleinsight to that, identity
mapping starts with four keyquestions.
Now, to the average person,you're like that's some dumb
questions, my guy.
How is that going to work?
Well, it's a categorical way tolook at how our brain works.
So we look at four things tokick it off.
Number one what do you thinkabout most?
Just as a human being, what areyou thinking about the majority
of time?

(15:47):
Where do you spend the majorityof your brain power?
Everybody goes like what do youmean?
And I go, yes, what do youthink about most?
So that's question number one.
Question number two is whatthree things in life do you fear
losing most?
Okay, what three things in lifedo you fear losing most?
And I'm not talking about likeyour dog or anything or whatever
.
In biggest picture, 100,000foot view.
Number three if you could dotwo things the rest of your life
and be totally satisfied, whatwould those two things be?

(16:09):
No rules, no restrictions.
You have all the money in theworld, but you could only do two
things the rest of your life.
What are those two things?
And the question four is what isone thing in life you hope to
accomplish?
I'm not looking for the end allbe all, unless you know what
that is.
I just want to.
What is one significant thingin life you're hoping to
accomplish?
Now I'm going to make upanswers which will kind of break
my point a little bit, but Ipromise, if you're listening,

(16:29):
you pause right now and goanswer these questions.
What I'm about to tell you willmake sense.
So if you're listening, nowpause, go into these four
questions and come back.
All right, you're back, youjust answer your questions.
Great job when we go throughthese.
The reason we ask them in thisorder is because I found this is
how our brain works as a normalhuman.
We think in this order Now,categorically, what I just asked
us J is one your thoughts,fears, hopes and dreams.

(16:52):
Now, I didn't say tell me yourthoughts, fears, hopes and
dreams because if I did we wouldall give some ridiculous answer
we didn't actually mean.
I just want to get to the rootof the question.
So I just ask you the questionOnce I know your answer to those
questions.
You just told me your thoughts,fears, hopes and dreams, but I
find that the average humanbeing thinks, in this order
Number one, what do you thinkabout most?

(17:12):
I could almost guarantee you, ifyou did this exercise, what you
think about most is directlyrelated to what you fear losing
most.
Because most of us live ondefense, we live reactively, we
live in a position to go.
I got to do whatever I could doto keep the bad things out and
if that actually happens, thenmaybe, just maybe, I can find
one or two good things to let in, but I can't let anything good

(17:33):
in until I keep all the bad out.
We're on our heels all the time.
Why?
Because what we think aboutmost is related to what we fear.
Whatever we wrote down innumber two, what we fear is
preventing us from doing what wewrote down in number three.
That's why we call them hopes,because I just hope I can
someday.
But you're not actually doingit because you're afraid you're
going to lose everything.
Number four if you don't donumber three, you may never
accomplish number four.

(17:53):
We go through this exercisebecause I want us to show wait a
second this your brain is verysmart, but your brain is doing
what you're telling it, becauseyour brain is doing what you're
thinking about most every day.
That's what you're going to do.
If you know what you think, youknow what you do.
If you know what you do, youknow what you can change, but
not until you know what youthink, because it's almost 100%
related.
Even if somebody wrote down Jay,what do you think about most?

(18:15):
Oh, my to-do list.
Great Favorite phrase in theworld.
Well, tell me about that.
Well, I think about my to-dolist Like, if I don't get things
done, like I don't, you know, Idon't feel good about myself.
Awesome, tell me about that.
Well, if I don't feel goodabout myself, I don't think my
things done, is because I don'twant to.
I don't want to let anybodydown.
Interesting, tell me about that.
Well, I feel like in my past,when I've let people down, they

(18:35):
usually leave One more time.
Tell me about that.
Well, when people leave, I endup by myself, and I don't want
to be by myself.
Great.
So let's pause right here,because we're going to interject
a new tactic.
It's called the upside down.
I'm going to say everything youjust said to me, but I'm going
to say it to you backwards soyou can actually hear it this
time.
So you said to-do list gettingit done, not letting people down

(18:58):
, not being alone.
That makes sense.
That's fair.
Here's what you actually said.
What do you think about most?
Not being alone.
So I don't want to disappointpeople, because that might
happen, and the only way I knownot to disappoint them is to get
everything done, and so all I'mthinking about is my to-do list
.
Now, we said the exact sameshit.

(19:20):
I mean verbatim the same words,but we heard it in a way this
time that was not me on my heels, it was me on my toes, it was
me on offense.
But one, two, three and fourwork the exact same way.
Flip those in the upside down.
If, what, if?
What you wrote a number four wasthe single thing you thought
about most 80% of your day.

(19:42):
If the one thing you thoughtabout most every day was one
thing in life you really hopedto accomplish, I bet you would
do more of what you reallywanted to be doing.
And if you did more of what youreally want to be doing, I bet
that you would be less fearfulof losing things.
Hey, by the way, whatever youwrote down number two you can't
actually control and then itwould dramatically change what
we think about a number one.

(20:03):
What we think about, that's ourmind, that's our mindset.
That's what changing ourmindset is.
Without going into too muchmore details, jess and we're
here for Jay about identitymapping we didn't build a
language on top of that aboutvalues and about strengths and
about identifiers.
But that first piece, thesefour questions when it comes to
self clarity, maybe the four, atleast for Rocky, the four most
important questions for us touncover and discover about

(20:24):
mindset.
If you want to change yourmindset, that literally means
you have to change what youthink about, but you can't
change it until you know what itis that you're thinking about.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, I think what people need to be aware of is
that your mindset is calibrated.
It's like the operating systemfor the hard drive that you're
operating and the good news iswe have the opportunity to
rewire it.
But you've got some reallyingrained external factors that
have happened to you in yourlife that has created this hard
drive and your way of thinkingand it can be incredibly

(20:57):
overpowering or incrediblydifficult, and a lot of people
start even aware that their harddrive, their mindset, is
steering them down a negativepath or a fulfilling path.
When I like the idea of fearbecause fear, I teach the topic
of fear quite a bit, and youhoned in on one.

(21:17):
The losing people fear processpain.
They fear that the grass maynot be greener.
On the other side, they feelphysical harm, but losing
something that they already haveis very common.
What do you think from yourexperience in working with
people that people fear the mostin regards to losing something?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I think relationship is the number one thing that
pops up.
I would say the number oneanswer, and it's a variety of
ways.
People say friends, people sayfamily, people say co-workers,
people say you know my lovedones, people say my community,
people say my sense of belonging, people say my sense of purpose
.
I think all of that isrelationally driven.
The number one thing I believeindividuals are fearful of, at
least in the clients that I workwith, is relationship losing.

(22:05):
Relationship losing and I thinkwe could expound on that.
We could say relationship isthe topic.
We got a little, two little Vsthat come down.
We could say connection andbelonging.
We could go off of that and wecould say you know experience
and intimacy and I don't saysexual intimacy, I mean deep
connection with people, beingloved, being recognized, being
seen, being known To me.
All of that is the number onefear that we have is that we're

(22:27):
just going to be forgotten,we're going to disappear, we're
going to be missed, we're goingto lose the ability to have some
kind of human connection withsomebody else.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
That makes a lot of sense because we as humans,
we're tribal.
We need to have deep,meaningful connections.
Hence why we don't want to goup on stage and speak, because
you might lose credibility, theymay not like you, they might
boot, you not want anything todo with you, right?
So it's yeah, I would agreewith that and I appreciate you
sharing that, because I was justcurious about what people fear
the most when it comes to losingsomething.
How do you so?

(23:01):
You mentioned you knowstrengths and core values you
know.
Beyond these questions, howdoes a deeper understanding of
your strengths and core valuesyou know impact your ability to
have confidence in yourself andhave clarity with yourself?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, yeah, great question.
So for me, core values serve asthe why.
It's the why we do what we do.
An easier description, becauseI think sometimes that gets
blown out of the, that getsblown out of proportion.
Nothing against Simon Sinek, Ithink he's awesome, but I think
he it got taken so far.
We hear the why and immediatelymost of us are like man.
So I say core value serve asthe reason, intention and
motivation behind what we'rechoosing.
So without a language for ourreason, intention and motivation

(23:39):
, we just make it up why do youwant to do that?
And then, on the cuff or like a, becomes uh, impulsive.
I don't, I wanted to, but whatdoes that mean?
You wanted to like what is yourreason, intention, motivation?
Defining your core values is notgiving yourself a set of words
that you've never had.
It's bringing clarity to alanguage for something you're
already doing that you justhaven't had the words for.

(24:01):
Therefore, it's really hard tofollow.
It's like having a.
It's like having a map that hasa, that has a bunch of trails
on it and half of them arecorrect and half of them are
wrong, and the only way to knowif they're right or wrong is
just to go, try it and realizeit was wrong.
Well, what?
What if we could on that map?
From what you know, the I canimagine?
Imagine you see a map and ithas that little bubble thing
that says you, there were redthings.
That says you are here right.

(24:21):
So if we go with that analogy,defining your core values is
like immediately taking 50% ofthe trails on the map that are
no good and that are not there,and immediately they've just
erased like a vapor.
That's what core values do.
It serves I say it serves asour foundation and our filter.
Why do you want to do this?
Why didn't you do that?
Why can you do that?
Why should you Not?
So it's I don't have to digdeep and go oh, I hope I don't

(24:43):
mess it up.
What if you have a language forthat?
What if I knew?
In my family I have five values.
My wife does, my kids do, ourfamily has family values
together and that's how we makedecisions.
It doesn't matter if it makessense.
And Excel Actually, it doesn'tmatter if it doesn't make sense
and Excel sometimes, Is this whowe are?
Because if it's who we are,we're going to find a way to
make it work.

(25:03):
For me, values give a sense ofpurpose in that it allows us to
align ourselves, to go.
Why am I going to choose to dowhat it is that I'm doing?
Again, we're not making it upout of thin air.
Every human being has values.
If we don't have a language forthem, though, we don't know how
to apply that, we don't knowwhen we're using them, so we're
just guessing.
Having values takes theguesswork out of why we choose

(25:23):
to do something.
So, on the value side, for me,that's why that's I think, how
do you use those and what's thevalue there?
To me, that's to that end.
It's gives us a foundation togo.
This is the things I'm going tostand on now, moving forward,
and if it doesn't align withthis, it doesn't mean you are
wrong.
If you want to go that way, itmeans I don't go that way.
I don't want to go that way.
This is how I want to makedecisions, and I think there's a

(25:45):
little bit of what's the rightword.
There's like a little bit oflike unapologeticness that has
to come with that right, andit's not about me saying that
I'm better than you.
It's about me saying that I'mme.
And let me be very clear.
It's a fine line, Like it's afine line to determine how I can

(26:08):
stand unapologetically, and whoI am, without attempting to
communicate to you my way is theonly way.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm telling you my way is myway and I want to have a clear
idea of what my way is.
Can my way adapt and change?
Yeah, Welcome to being a humanand trying to have connection

(26:29):
with other humans.
Some shit's going to have tochange.
However, where am I startingfrom?
To me, that's what core valuesdo you go to the strength side.
I think strengths might be thatone of the number one most
misconceptions when it comes tounderstanding ourselves, because
I define strengths as how weoperate, not what we do, and I

(26:50):
think a lot of times,specifically, you go through
strengths or strengths trainingor in your job, you go to go
through a strengths exercise,you do your strengths.
You're like, oh, those are mystrengths, so that's what I
should be doing.
False, at least from myperspective.
False Strengths are how I wantyou to think about strengths as
the muscle.
So if I say, hey, Jay, what'sone of your strengths?
And you say my arms, I saygreat, you have strong arms.

(27:11):
You say yes.
I say what do you do?
You don't say arm zing.
That doesn't make any sense andI think when we talk about our
strengths as the what, asopposed to the ability, that's
how we sound, Right?
So what I've?
What have I seen that peoplehave strong arms?
I've seen people with strongarms do all kinds of crazy
things Push, pull, punch, hug,hold, heel, walk.

(27:31):
I've seen people with no legswalk with strong arms.
So the ability what could youdo?
I think the possibilities arealmost are through the roof.
If I can identify what mystrengths are meaning.
What are the muscles that Ihave?
How do I human?
That's the phrase I use withstrengths.
Strengths are how we humaneverywhere.
Everywhere, Not just personally.
Like I am this intenseeverywhere.

(27:53):
I don't know how to not be mykids, my wife dinner.
You come to my house, bro.
I'm telling you better be readyto go to the deep end, Cause I
am not talking about Netflix fortwo hours while we're eating
short ribs.
You know what I'm saying.
I'm trying to get to the rootof why we're here and not
everybody likes that, and I knowthat, but that's who I am.
That's how I human.
I don't know how to not do that, but it's taken me 40 years to

(28:15):
discover that's who I am andhave enough freedom and belief
that it's good To not apologizefor it and to know that, hey, if
you don't like it, it is okay.
My boy, we're probably just notgoing to have a lot of meals
together Because you're going tobe like, hey, I don't like this
and I'm going to be like that'samazing, you should go hang out
with that other guy then.
So, strengths, I think, give us, begin to give us that freedom

(28:37):
to go.
Wait, how do I human, how do Ihuman?
Everywhere I'll use, I'll use alanguage called the dentifiers.
They're just words we made up,but they end in ER and OR.
Challenger, strategizer,analyzer, truth teller,
encourager, warrior, though allthose lead, all those words, and
it just gives us somethingtangible and actionable.

(28:58):
But as it describes us as ahuman, I'm not asking about your
job.
I don't want to know what yourjob is, I want to know who are
you.
So for me, for example, someone.
I meet people all the time andit's not a gimmick.
I mean, it's a gimmick becauseI made up the words, but it's
not a gimmick, and I'm trying tobe cheesy, I'm trying to try to
be clear.
Hey, Rocky, nice to meet you,I'll say so.
What do you do?
Oh, thank you so much forasking.

(29:19):
I'm a challenger, truth teller,entrusted guide.
What?
Oh, amazing, Thanks for asking.
So, yeah, so in my life.
And we didn't go into it.
So then, I don't thinkeverybody in the world would do
that.
I mean I'm a little weird, so Iwish everybody would.
But what is that?
That's how I think about thosewords.
What do I do everywhere?
What do I do?
And if we can build this out,we went back to our map analogy

(29:40):
earlier.
Well, now we read it oppositethe order we created it because,
you know, at this point I doeverything backwards, Jay.
So we then say, well, what do Ido?
That's my identifier, and howdo I do that?
That's my strength and why do Ido that?
That's my values.
And all of a sudden, I'vecreated this inner way it's kind
of like a wordplay to take thislanguage and put it together to
go.
Well, who am I?

(30:01):
I'm a challenger, truth teller,entrusted guide that utilizes
my strength to build connectionswith others, to take command
when necessary, to seefuturistically about what's
coming, to get the work done ona daily basis in every aspect of
my life, because I valuevulnerability and boldness and
generosity and trust, and for me, that's what's the driving
force wherever I go, no matterwhat.
That's who I am as a person.

(30:22):
So identity mapping gives usthe freedom to have that
language, so that I can stopsecond guessing myself, I can
get on my toes and get onoffense, I can stop apologizing
for being the person I was madeand designed to be, while
knowing that I am unique andtrusting that you are just as
badass as I am.
I just got to help you get thewords out so you can see it.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
I love all of these things because I teach vision
and help people find clarity.
And I love the analogy of a mapbecause I use map and compass
quite a bit and I also talkabout living life on offense
versus defense and everythingthat you're saying like complete
alignment, and I think I justwant the listener to realize
that, living an autopilot andliving on defense, you're just

(31:02):
wandering around the wilderness,reacting to everything and
you're trying different trailsuntil you bump into things by
knowing who you are, beingcomfortable with yourself,
knowing your values, knowingyour strengths.
You live on offense, youactually read the map and you're
deliberate about getting frompoint A to point B and it makes
life a hell of a lot easier.

(31:23):
And you said something a littlebit ago like I think it takes a
lot of people.
I don't feel like I reallyfigured.
I'm still trying to figuremyself out as I transition from
my military role into what I'mdoing now, but I feel like it
took me 40 years to reallyunderstand and I'm still trying
to figure out who the hell I am.

(31:43):
Why do you think it takes us solong?

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well, I think it takes us so long because I
believe and this is not metrying to, you know, to either
of our horns, to to.
I'm saying I believe this to betrue.
I think it's taken until now tohave a generation, specifically
a generation of men who believe, and I hope that we're aligned
on this.
If I say something and youthink I'm full of crap, jay, I

(32:06):
need you to tell me.
Okay, I won't be offended.
The listeners need to know thatyou think I'm full of crap, but
I think it's taken until now tohave a generation of folks like
you and I, specifically men whounderstand that we would rather
be a warrior in a garden than agardener in a war.
But that doesn't mean we haveto make everything a battle,
which means if I'm going to be awarrior in a garden, I've got
to know how to hold and rate andgrow a flower, which that's a

(32:29):
delicate process, right.
So like that, that means I gotto have tools and skills that 20
years ago you didn't have tohave, 50 years ago, for sure
didn't have to have in 100 yearsago.
Fully unnecessary, because itwas you with you in a field, by
yourself, trying not to getdiphtheria.
So like we're in a differentthe time is, we're literally in
a different time today than wewere 20, 40, 60, 100 years ago.

(32:50):
However, intrinsically in whowe are, I believe we still have
this deep desire and this burnand this fire to be ready at the
drop of a hat.
But in order to do that, we'vegot to refine and I hate this
word, but I don't know what elseto call it we have to refine up
.
You know what I was going tosay soft skills, but we're going
to talk gardening skills.
We've got to refine thegardener skills in us to be able

(33:11):
to know what to do and who weare.
And so why did it take us 40years?
Because I think we've beensetting the pace for 40 years to
go.
I love my wife, I love my kids.
I'm going to figure out who Iam.
I'm going to be in touch withmyself internally, but it's not
going to be woo woo and it's notgoing to make me weak and it
doesn't vulnerability, doesn'tmake someone's going to attack
me when I'm not seeing it.
It means I'm going to be fullyaware, because I want to be able

(33:33):
to have my head down droppingtiny seeds in the dirt planning
things for the legacy of my life, but if shit goes down, I am
prepared at a moment's notice.
I'm still ready to go to war.
That's not the issue.
However, if I'm going to haveit under control, I better have
a clear understanding of who Iam.
So I think it's taking us a longtime, because I think it's
taken us this long, to giveourselves the freedom to go.
Can this be possible?
I think today, now more thanever, I have never been in the

(33:55):
military myself, so shout out toall of our veterans who are
listening Thank you so much foryour service.
I don't know what it's like tobe in your shoes at all, and I
believe, now more than ever, ourability to have that, to go
back and forth and to watch notthe but, but the and the and of
the gardener and the warriortogether is now is more

(34:18):
important today than it's everbeen.
And so I think our ability toknow who we are and why did it
take us 40 years?
Because I think it took us 40years to get to a place where we
are in 2023, about to be in2024, where it was valuable and
it was necessary, and both, Ibelieve, are necessary, but I
don't think it's we.
I believe you and I and thosewho are joining us in this

(34:39):
journey, we are the frontrunners for what?
I don't know if you should haveasked you before.
I don't know if you have anychildren or son or not.
I have a eight year old son.
I believe we are the frontrunners for shaping and changing
and showing what our children,specifically our sons, what the
next 80 years of their life isgoing to be like.
And it is our duty now to laythe groundwork in the path on

(35:01):
the map for them to go, which iswhy you and I are just now
figuring it out.
One, what an incredibleopportunity we've been given to
do that.
And two, because we realize theold mapping on work and we got
to figure out somethingdifferent.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, the man I love.
I love that, the saying Irather be the warrior in the
garden rather than the gardenerin the war, and I've mentioned
that one quite a few times.
It's all about being prepared,it's about being disciplined.
You know, the warrior trains,it's, it's, it's, it is training
not only the, the body forbattle, but the mind to you know

(35:38):
, have temperance, to know whento use force and you know, even
even our military, like we canuse an incredible amount of
force, but having the temperanceand the discipline to not
overdo it, to have havediscipline in how you use that
force.
And so so much of what you saidresonated.
And it's all about beingprepared, about having the tools

(36:00):
when needed.
You can.
You can, you know, demonstratethat force and use it if need be
, but also be kind and lovingand nurture the garden right,
versus just being a gardenerwhere, when something does
happen, you're just woefullyunprepared.
And and I love that, and I think, I think your point is, as you
were describing that and I justkind of reflected my life I

(36:22):
think, I think it takes a longtime to become the warrior.
I mean physically, mentally.
You know samurai is, you knowit takes years and years,
decades of training to do that.
Hence why, you know, we trainour body and our mind and that's
why you know we're heroes.
Call or having thisconversation is, you know,
working on our mindset, which isoften overlooked.

(36:43):
So I suspect the oh, go ahead.
You were gonna say something.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Well, I I was gonna make an analogy, but I realize
I'm going to make an analogy outof somebody that has zero
experience.
So you, because you've beenthere and I haven't, if this, if
what I say doesn't make anysense, you just tell me.
I'm full.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Go for it, I'll call you out, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Thank you so much so.
But it's like can you be awarrior if you don't go to war?

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
You know what I'm saying.
And then it's like, well then,how do you become a warrior?
And then what?
Because I think those are thethings where I have, I have, I
have.
I was thinking throughconversation, dialogue I've had
with folks, and then the mindsetis and then again, specifically
in men, where they get well, Isaid well, but I haven't.
But what does that mean?
And I love the your way, theway you describe training, and
like you got to prepare this, solike you just got to, you got

(37:31):
to be ready.
So I know I'm curious.
I'm curious for your take onthat Cause I think it's a
dialogue I found myself inbefore and you know, as it
relates, as it relates tosomeone who has been in the
military, whether you've been inactive combat or not, there's
something totally differentthere that I have no bearing in.
So I don't want to make anystatements or assumptions
because I feel like I don't haveenough reference to be able to

(37:51):
do that.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Well, there's there's this guilt that many members of
the military have trained andthey wrote.
You know, they raised the righthand and they wanted to answer
the call and go, but just due totiming it just didn't work out
for them.
And they carry tremendous guiltwith them, but they're
absolutely trained.
Had they been in the in theposition to go, they would have
performed very well, but theyhave this guilt.

(38:14):
So, and I think you know,training prepares you for war.
I think war gives you anopportunity to test yourself.
I guess if that's the way andthat's, I think it's where a lot
of military members like theyfeel like they they didn't get
the opportunity to, to gettested, but they would have
performed well and it doesn'tmake them any less of a warrior.
They did what they, what wasrequired of them, and I know

(38:39):
that.
I think being a warrior isreally committing and completing
the training that you don'tnecessarily have to be tested.
That doesn't.
That's not.
The act of getting tested insome type of conflict is not
where you receive the warriorbadge, right.
You earn that in the trainingand typically your trainers who

(39:04):
assess that.
You know you.
You get belts and jujitsu.
You're not in a street fight toget that.
You're you're, you're tested bythe trainer and they're
watching in a controlledenvironment.
It's the same in the military.
You earn different skill badgesand things like that.
You're in that controlledenvironment, you earn that and

(39:24):
we know that you know, throughthat training you have
demonstrated courage.
Now, obviously, when whenbullets are flying your way,
people are going to havedifferent reactions.
But the way that all of the U?
S military trains veryrealistic soldiers tend to
perform very well because ofthat realistic, good training.
They're warriors and they theyanswer the call and they perform

(39:44):
well because of our training.
So that's, that's my roundaboutanswer to your question.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Listen.
I want thank you Because now Irealized that for the past, when
I made a pitch, okay, I got thebacking of her, I got some of
the backing of somebody's a lotmore real time experience than
me, so that feels good, justselfishly.
But I think if we take that andit can apply that now to a
little bit more broadly, so notjust specifically to to our
military or or for our veterans,but I think just in general, on

(40:10):
on on this, in civilian life wewe have the I believe, at least
in my least, at least from myexperience, and I think, given a
given the title of our podcasthere, like it is not the
equivalent, so this is not made.
Apples to apples.
I mean we're about to compare.
We're about to compare applesto tuna fish here.
Okay, we're like talkingtotally different food groups,
but but I think a lot of us, ifnot all of us, are given the

(40:33):
opportunity to test ourpreparation on a weekly it may
be daily basis when it comes towho am I, what do I believe,
what am I doing and what impactam I going to make in the world.
If we are willing to view thatagain.
Tuna fish, apples here we'renot comparing apples to apples,
but when it comes to, am Iprepared to go to war?

(40:53):
Am I prepared to the battle ofthe day?
Am I prepared to say I'm goingto wake up and what am I going
to?
I have a personal phrase I use,called daily is daily, daily is
daily.
In the matter of the time ofday, what am I committed to
doing on a daily basis?
And that preparedness is whatgives way to go.
So what am I going to do?
Am I prepared?
My kids are going to be homehere in about 15 minutes.
Am I ready?
Am I prepared for the day Causethey're going to come in at a

(41:15):
hundred miles an hour.
Dad's here, they're here.
It's Monday.
We got four days of school leftfor Christmas.
They're going to be amp throughthe roof Like, am I ready?
Am I ready to engage in whatthat is?
And so why, I think in ourdialogue, why is knowing who we
are important?
Not fluffy, not woo, woo, notmust be nice to sit around and,
just, you know, philosophizeabout who I think I am as a

(41:36):
person.
I'm talking about the realrubber meets the road, the real
shit of like.
Who am I, what do I believe andwhat am I going to do in this
world?
Every day we have an opportunity, to vary degrees, to say are
you prepared?
Because when my son doessomething and I'm already
frustrated because I had a roughday at work and I am ill
prepared to manage my ownemotions and he says something
that sets me off even though itwas totally uncalled for on my

(41:59):
end, am I prepared to be able togo into that scenario and say,
rocky, you better calm down, youbetter take a deep breath and
respond to him in the way that aloving, kind father would?
Because if you blow your lid onsome shit, that didn't matter
that you were ill prepared, youwere not ready.
You were not ready to face that.
But you know why?
Because I didn't know who I wasand I didn't believe that who I

(42:20):
was is good.
I didn't have clarity about thekind of father that I wanted to
be, the husband I was becomingand who I was as an individual.
So I blow my lid off, I pop mytop on everything, because
everything is frustrated andmakes me mad, because I have an
internal thing that I haven'taddressed.
I think our ability to beprepared albeit much better
metaphor to think about somebodywho has participated in any of
our armed services to see it waybetter than Rocky can, but to

(42:42):
make it down for the good oldcivilian me.
Every day I'm in a spot to go.
Am I prepared?
And if we want to be a warriorin a garden, hopefully what I'm
cultivating in my garden, myhome, is something I really
believe and I want to see grow.
But I'm going to have to fightsome demons off on a regular
basis in order to keep thethings out, so I can protect the
things that are in, in order tobuild something I really
believe in.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, embarrassingly, I still have my moments.
I have triplet 15 year olddaughters I have.
I have lost my shit on them forwhatever reason, just being a
parent and stressful day theywere.
You know they were arguing orwhatever you know and I'm just
like, especially earlier on, andI'm like man.

(43:24):
I, my father, was a hothead andI can have that disposition if
I'm not careful genetically andwired to be that way I'm like,
but that's not how I want to be.
I'm having clarity and the typeof father that I want to be.
But it's enabled me todeescalate and not do that as

(43:47):
often, because I've had clarityand I knew the values that I've
wanted to impart on my children.
And even when I did because mydad used to blow up on me but he
never once apologized rightI've had a couple of times where
I probably overused some forceand I went back and I felt I
didn't feel good about itbecause I was in violation of my

(44:07):
own values and we had aconversation about it and I
would apologize because I didn'twant to.
So I think having that level ofawareness is incredibly
important in all things.
And time this back to like, Ithink this is why running and
endurance sports are soincredibly good for us, because

(44:31):
it gives us the opportunity totrain ourselves physically and
mentally on a daily basis, and Ithink those things make us
better in our day to day life.
And it doesn't just, it's notjust endurance sports, but it's
a martial art, it's whatever,whatever it is that you do your
training not only physically,but the mindset.
That's why.
That's why the mindset work isso incredibly important.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yep, I, I, I'm 100% agree with you and I think, over
and over and over, you know, Ieven love the fact that you came
back and said you know itdidn't align with what I valued,
and that there's I'm a big fan.
I've never activelyparticipated in in in AA or CA
or any of those things, but I'vebeen active participant in
recovery in a variety of ways,with leading groups and so on,

(45:13):
and I think I love, I love inrecovery, I love the idea when
it comes to making amends.
To make amends actually meansto fix, and so I think I love
even talking about your.
You know you as a dad going hey, I got to go, I did something I
didn't mean to do, so I got togo fix it.
And I think you know one thingfor us, for those, those that
are listening, if it's valuableto you, one thing for us we try

(45:35):
really hard and I'm not, I'm notperfect at it, be very clear
with you but every time Iapologize, I I try to remind
myself that if I'm actuallygoing to make amends, so
apologizing for me isn't makingamends, and making amends means
I need to ask for forgiveness,and so do you forgive me and, I
think, for watching my kidsagain.
They're five and they're eight,so sometimes they say no and
they mean it, and sometimes theysay no just because they're
just trying to be funny.

(45:56):
But it as a, as a dad, it putsme in a totally different
posture.
To go hey, I dad's really sorryfor what I did and I shouldn't
have grabbed your arm like that.
I love you very much and I donot want to respond that way to
you.
I'm really sorry and will youforgive me and I help them
understand, like you have thepower, they have that Dad
doesn't have the power justbecause I'm older, I don't have
the power.
They have the power.

(46:16):
I, regardless of my intention,the impact was physically
harming you, which is I.
That makes me I.
I makes me so mad at myself.
But I need them to understand.
I am sorry but I'm onlyapologizing for my intention,
but I need to ask forforgiveness due to the impact.
Regardless.
If I meant to hurt you, ithurts you.

(46:37):
So will you forgive me?
And I think that comes to me.
It just comes straight from the, from recovery in that world of
going.
I got to be able to make amends.
Amends means to fix.
I got to be able to fix it.
Fixing means you have theauthority and power Will you
forgive me and release me ofthis thing?
And if and sometimes my son iseight and sometimes he says no,
and I say okay, I'll cut, isokay to kind of come back and

(46:57):
talk to you about it in a littlewhile?
And he says yes, and then I gotto come back in a couple hours
and go, hey, just want to followup, I just want to check again,
like will you forgive me, andwe always come back around to it
, but that that tension betweenthose two timeframes dude, like
for him and probably mostly forme, but for both of us it's like
I got to go sit in that shitNow.
Now I got to go figure out away to sit with myself for two

(47:18):
hours, knowing that I didsomething and my son doesn't
forgive me because he doesn'tforgive me Because he doesn't
have to, because I was wrong.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
That's probably one of the most powerful things that
I've heard in a while.
You've really got my light bulbmy light bulbs on right now.
Like I don't know that I'veever asked my daughters to
forgive me and I think that's anincredible component.
I've said I've apologized tothem, but you're absolutely
right and I think that that'ssomething I'm gonna really

(47:45):
ponder on.
I really appreciate thatinsight, thank you.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, no, I mean I.
I remember why.
I was 21 and and I hadn'ttalked to my dad in a few years,
my parents got divorced.
Now I was really young and Ihadn't talked to my dad in a few
years.
I never lived with him growingup and I was in my junior year
of college and it was called wasparents weekend and my dad had
never been to college where I'dbeen before, and I went to
junior college for a coupleYears and then transferred a

(48:10):
name, and so I thought you knowwhat, like, let me just in, let
me just end the whole thing.
Right now it's Thursday Parentsweekends this weekend.
I'm gonna call and invite him.
He's gonna say no, and when hedoes, I'm gonna say no, worries,
I appreciate it.
And then I'm gonna be donebecause I did my part.
I invited him and he said no.
So you know what?
Let's just finish this thing.
So I got out my blackberry atthe time, my boy, because that's

(48:31):
what we all had, and we thoughtwe were cool.
It was this big and I had alittle stylus in it.
So I called him on theblackberry say dad, hey, say
parents weekends this weekend.
I just want you to not love foryou to come.
We hadn't seen my school yet.
It'd be fun to hang out for theweekend.
You know, if you had to work,whatever, I get it, but I just
wanted you to know.
He said, all right, what timedo I'm gonna be there?
I remember thinking, oh no, ohno, he's supposed to say no.

(48:54):
And he said what time is it behere?
What am I gonna do?
And so he came and he showed up.
It's a Friday after lunch.
I just got back from class.
I was in my apartment and herolls up and go out and see him.
We're in my apartment talkingand we're gonna go to dinner
with some friends at night toTexas Road House.
And I Remember, sitting in myroom, my dad was sitting on the

(49:16):
edge of my bed and I was sittingin my desk chair, kind of like
I am now and I rolled away frommy desk and I rolled up to him
and Said, hey, you know, beforewe, before we get in this
weekend, before we do anythingelse like can we just talk for a
minute?
And he said, sure, I said okay.
I said I Spent a lot of my lifebeing really mad at you and I
spent a lot of my life, beingreally frustrated because I

(49:38):
don't understand why you leftand I don't understand why you
didn't choose me.
Like I can get my head aroundyou Not want to be married to my
mom, but I don't understand younot choosing me.
What did I do?
I didn't do it.
I didn't do anything and I feellike I've been fighting my
whole life to get you to payattention and like I don't.
I don't know what to do andI've been really mad.
But I do.
But I love you and I'm notasking you to be my dad, I'm

(50:02):
just asking to be my friend andI know that I have a plan for my
life and I know that I'm gonnago down this path and I don't
want to turn around one day andyou not be there, because I
didn't invite you to come withme.
And my dad looked at me and, ofcourse, for both tears in our
eyes and he said I Don't everwant you to worry about Walking

(50:22):
down the path and me not beingthere.
But he said to me but in orderfor me to be there, I need to
know Will you forgive me?
And of course, the moment I gotreaction just wanted to scream
yes, as long as I couldn't givehim a hug and pretend Everything

(50:42):
was fine.
But I think, looking back, jay,I mean it's been, it's been a
long time that was almost 20years ago and I think maybe that
was one of the first times inmy life that somebody asked me
if I would forgive him, and Ithink it's maybe one of the
greatest lessons and I thinkit's one of the greatest moments
that my father ever gave me andmaybe he wasn't around for the
first a ton for the first 18years, but he's given me a lot

(51:05):
these last 18 years and I thinkit started with that.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, forgiveness is Just think about my, my father,
and I'm glad you had thatopportunity, because a lot of
people don't, and I think Havingthe courage to have that
conversation and beingvulnerable and exploring that, I

(51:33):
think is there's a lot ofpeople that won't.
They won't even talk to eachother rest of life because they
can't get to that point.
And because you guys had thatconversation, you've been able
to rekindle a relationship.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Yeah, fast forward.
Yeah, fast forward.
20 years later, jay, that wasan, I was a.
That was in 2003, and this year, september, almost 20 years to
the to the month, my father andI went on a trip to Montana.
This year, I went fly fishingfor five days together.
It was the first vacation we'veever taken together in our

(52:07):
lives, and so I think, just as atestament to anybody out there
who's listening to the power ofreconciliation, the power of
making amends, the power ofstaying the course, doing the
hard thing, preparing yourselfevery day, it's no, it's no, no
law, no, no.
Surprise to me that's met thelast Decade and a half,

(52:30):
exploring who I am, what thatmeans and how to help people
have clarity and who they arethat it took 15 years of a
profession To prepare me, tohave five days with my dad, to
be able to reset the stage forwho we are, where we're going.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Yeah, that's that's.
I'm glad that you're able torekindle that and have that and
I'm glad that we you're able toshare that Message with with
others.
I'm sure it's gonna resonatewith someone here.
Yeah how we're doing on time.
You got a few minutes left.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, I got a few minutes left.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
All right.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I want to hit this.
We've been very vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
This last little bit.
I know one of your goals tochallenge the stories that we
tell ourselves and to liveVulnerably and we're doing that
today, right?
So can you elaborate theimportance of vulnerability when
it comes to personaldevelopment and just life in
general?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So I I define vulnerability ascreating the opportunity to see
and be seen by others.
So if we break that into twoparts, vulnerability is not
putting all your shit on thetable for everybody to see.
I don't think that now that'san element of it.
If that's who you are and youwant to roll that way, a more
power to you I definevulnerability is you Creating
the opportunity to see others.
So can I be present enough tobe, participate with you that I

(53:41):
can actually see you, andcreating the opportunity to be
seen by others.
Am I willing to show you who Ireally am as a person?
To me, that's vulnerability.
I didn't say we have to talk.
I didn't say we have to askdeep questions.
I didn't say you have to go totherapy if that's not your jam.
I'm saying just how do wecreate that environment?
And specifically, if you'relistening, and I think,
specifically for men, men haveto hang out in order to let

(54:02):
their feelings out, like mengetting together for a 30 minute
coffee.
Unless you are practiced andit's someone you really trust
and the whole reason you gottogether was to go deep from the
beginning An average group ofmen is not gonna do that, right?
That's why do we like thingslike golf?
Cause we get together to befour hours and it's not until
whole 15 that we actually tellthe truth.
Maybe six beers had somethingto do with it, maybe you did it
on the list.
Why does that happen, right?
So I think in thatvulnerability is creating the

(54:24):
opportunity to see and be seenby others.
But that's to me that is anumber one foundational
component to self clarity and toknowing who you are is because
you have to be willing to allowsomeone to see what is really
there.
And if I'm going to allow thatfor you, my hope and intent is
that I can, you can, do thatwith you as well.

(54:44):
It's gotta be reciprocal tosome degree.
So, again, vulnerability isjust setting the environment.
Am I willing to allow myself tobe seen?
Am I willing to see you?
If so, then let's get intounpacking the stories told to us
about us.
I've been told my whole lifeRocky, you're too intense.
Rocky, you're too loud.
Rocky, you yell.
Rocky, you're too emotional.
You can't cry like that andactually be seen as a man.

(55:04):
Rocky, you can't talk incorporate.
You don't even have a resume.
What do you think you are?
You talk for a living.
What is your real job?
All the things I've been toldover the course of my life All
those are stories told to meabout me.
Now, most of the time, I havefound right.
So if you're listening now andyou're like interesting, think
of a story told to you about you, just go there.
It's all stories that soundlike you're too this, you're
always this, you're never this,you're so this.
All those things are howstories come to us.

(55:27):
Most of the time, the storiestold to us about us are a
greater representation of thestoryteller than they are the
main character of the story.
Because you know who's nevertold me I'm too intense?
Someone who was intense.
You never used to tell me.
I'm too emotional.
Someone who was outwardlyemotional.

(55:49):
You know who's never told meI'm too loud Someone who spoke
at the same volume.
I did so.
Why is that?
Because most of the time,although well-intentioned we
talked about this earlieralthough well-intentioned, the
stories told to us about us withwords and with actions are
typically someone else'sinsecurity and they're trying to
protect us from experiencingwhat they did.

(56:09):
So they said A-A-A, you'reoverthinking it.
Oh, you take too many risks,you're too nice, you're too mean
, you're too.
What is that?
How do we have bothintrospection and they're both
wrong?
Well, it's because you'retrying to tell me who I am,
based on an insecurity that youhave, which makes me feel like I
have an insufficiency.
And now my insufficiencybecomes an insecurity and fast

(56:30):
forward 40 years and we go.
How did I get here?
We didn't unpack the storiestold to us about us.
We didn't unpack the stories wetell ourself about ourselves,
because if everyone says, rocky,you're too loud and too intense
, and then Rocky says, look attheir face, it's not working.
Guess what?
Fear, doubt, obstacle,insecurity, all these things
build up over a decade, twodecades, three decades, four

(56:52):
decades, eight decades.
It all builds up and if we'reunwilling to tease out these
things or we're unwilling topull the thread, they go.
Wait a second.
Where did that even come from?
What does it mean?
You're too nice.
How is that possibly an issue?
Well, it's an issue because youthink that it's a negative
connotation.
What if we could rewind and goyou are nice and you are good.

(57:19):
You are intense, rocky, and youare good.
That's why that phrase, for me,is so valuable.
The phrase you are good Again,it's not to puff you up and to
make you feel good, it's to gowait a second.
Intrinsically in who you are.
I believe it's good If we canfind the words and the language
you describe it so that I canactually find a way to live into

(57:40):
it.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
I love all that, everything.
Can you share a story or atransformation of someone that's
went through your process?
They gained clarity and it mayhave transformed their life, or
maybe they changed their career.
What is a testimonial, if youwill, of helping someone find
clarity?

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Yeah, we've got one-on-one clients as well as
group coaching clients right now.
We actually had someone.
We have a WhatsApp group forall of our group coaching
clients and they actually sent amessage this morning and
they've been with us for sixweeks now in our group coaching
program so they've gone throughthe e-learning process of
identity mapping.
We're working on the confidenceparts and in our call last week
they said hey, I've been in thesame job for three years now,

(58:24):
same role, no pay increase.
I don't know what to do.
I feel nervous.
Everybody on my team is betterthan me.
I mean, they were given thesame language that we've heard
over and over and I said OK,here's what I want you to do.
I said I want you to email melike I'm your boss and I want
you to tell me what role youwant, what pay you want, and
then tell me whether or notyou're going to start that
project or not.
I can't do that.
I was like bro, literally it'sme, I don't work for me.

(58:47):
See me, email you what you want, right?
They sent an email to me.
It was Jay.
It was lawless.
I don't even know where theperson in the email came from,
right?
So I emailed her back.
I said hey, where did this comefrom?
Because a person that's in thisemail like where are they at?
And they were like just waituntil our call this week Sounds
great, get on the call.
Background on their Zoom wasdifferent they had a new pair of

(59:10):
glasses on.
I mean it was like they madethis physical transformation.
I said what is going on withyou?
And they said I have aconversation with my boss right
after our coaching call today.
Let's go Call me when you'redone.
I had money to work with theirboss.
Call me back.
They said just got promoted, Ijust got a 20% raise and the
project I've been sitting on,that I've been working on for 18

(59:30):
months, that I haven't toldanybody.
I presented it and we'relaunching it in eight weeks from
now and I was like this issomething I can get behind.
How did we get here Back up?
What's the root of all that?
They knew exactly who they were,but they didn't have the words.
They had a story in their headabout who they were.
I'm too sweet, I'm too nice andI can't say what I want because

(59:51):
I don't want to hurt someone'sfeelings.
Those words came out of ourmouth over and over and over and
over and over again.
You eradicate the story that'sfalse about us.
You replace it with a storythat is true Daily habits.
Daily is daily.
It took us four days in a rowHer email and me, me responding,
her being on a call, herresponding, her being a group,

(01:00:11):
her responding.
It took four or five days ofdoing it over and over and over.
The fifth day when she actuallywith their boss.
It worked, but it wasn't thefirst time she had done it.
Why is that?
She knew she was.
She lacked the words.
She knew that she had somethingintrinsically that was good
about her, but she lacked theconfidence.
You put clarity and confidencetogether.
You put together an actualdaily plan.
Next thing you know you aremoments away from accomplishing

(01:00:32):
the very thing you thought wasimpossible.
If you can have the right guidethat's me and the right map to
give yourself a language of whatthat is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
And that speaks to the power of coaching.
You can read plenty ofself-help books and air quotes,
right?
I hate that term.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Personal development books.
You can listen to podcasts, butbeing in the group of right
people, having the right mentoror coach to kind of guide you
and help you reframe some thingscan transform your life.
And thank you, I appreciate yousharing that.
It's pretty inspiring.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah Well and I think you use a great phrase there,
Jay, and I think it's importantfor us to make a weekend end
with this.
If you were interested and thisis not myself, jay, anybody
else out there if you'reinterested in changing your life
and you find a coach that isgoing to tell you that they're
going to teach you how to belike them, I would be careful.
But if you can find a coach andI know this about Jay if you

(01:01:25):
can find a coach like Jay whosays I'm going to guide you to
become exactly who you want tobecome and to accomplish what
you want to accomplish nowyou're on to something, and I
think that's so vital incoaching and coaching,
consulting, whatever you want tocall it.
We're looking for guides, right, like I'm looking for a guide,
I'm looking for somebody who'snot thinking guide me to where

(01:01:46):
they were.
I don't want to go where youwent, but if you believe you can
help guide me to where I needto be, because you have the
tactical and practical resourcesto get me there, I'm all in,
and I think it's just reallyimportant to note if you're out
there looking, you're seeing,you're searching.
I saw this course, I saw thisthing.
I've been thinking aboutgetting together with Jay, but I
don't know what to do.
Jay is your guide.
You need a guide in your life.
You don't need somebody to tellyou to be like them.

(01:02:08):
You need somebody who can helpyou be like you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Great point, because the coaching industry has a lot
of some interesting people outthere that aren't always well.
I'll just leave it at that.
Just be careful, I'm trying tonot mince my words.
Just be cautious of who youwork with, because you can
definitely lose a lot of timeand money in that process as
well.
But, Rocky, thank you so muchfor being here with us today.

(01:02:34):
How come people get in contactwith you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, so you can just find me at rockigarzacom,
that's R-O-C-K-Y-G-A-R-Z-A.
Instagram is at Rocky Garza.
Linkedin is Rocky Garza.
Facebook is Rocky Garza,tiktok's Rocky Garza.
Youtube don't have enoughsubscribers yet To be that, but
you can just go to YouTube andsearch Rocky Garza and you can
find me there.
And, most importantly, jay, Isend a text message every day,
monday through Sunday, sevendays a week, free of charge, a

(01:02:58):
way to challenge and encourageyou.
I've sent over 100,000 textmessages to over 1,000 people
over the last three years, andso you can love for you to be
able to do that.
If you want to join that.
I'm not asking you to buyanything.
I'm not getting your creditcard number to send it to you.
I just want to send you a textand you can just text the word
podcast if that's how you foundme to 469-649-8441.
We'll drop that in the shownotes, I'm sure for you, so you

(01:03:20):
can see that.
But again, just shoot me a text.
It'll give a quick form here tofill out and I would love the
ability to be able tocommunicate with you.
I send those personally tomyself and I respond to them
personally to myself as well, soI'd love to engage with you
there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Great, yeah, I can say we'll put all that in the
show notes for people to connectwith you.
Well, I appreciate you.
For everyone else out there inthe Do Our Things Nation, hey,
we're all in this together.
Keep doing hard things, embracethe challenge, enjoy the season
we're going to kick off 2024.
Let's keep doing hard thingsand we'll see you guys in the
next episode.
Appreciate you, bye.