March 4, 2024 • 36 mins
Ever hit that wall where your legs feel like lead and your motivation is as fleeting as a mirage? Angi and I certainly have, and we're here to take you on a journey between pushing our limits and crashing into the unwelcome arms of overtraining. Angie\ opens up about her grueling encounter with shin splints during a Ragnar race prep, painting a vivid picture of the consequences when our mental tenacity outpaces our physical readiness. Together, we unpack the necessity of tuning into our body's whispers before they turn into screams, and how to spot the red flags that signal it's time to ease off the gas pedal.
Imagine having a personal coach strapped to your wrist, quietly nudging you when to push harder or when to take a step back. That's the beauty of what gadgets like Garmin and Whoop straps offer, and we get into the nitty-gritty of how these tech pieces can be game-changers in managing training loads. But it's not all about the tech; we also stress the value of human insight. A good coach's perspective can be the difference between peaking and peaking too soon. And who knew that bursts of high-intensity intervals could be your secret weapon for improved race times while giving your body the breather it needs? We dissect the strategies for ensuring your recovery is as strategic as your training, keeping you on the track, road, or trail and out of the injury clinic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jay Tiegs (00:43):
All right, welcome back everybody to another
episode of the Do Our Thingspodcast.
I'm JT and I have it studiowith me, lovely Angie Patran.
How you doing, angie.
Angi Betran (00:51):
I'm doing great.
How are you doing?
Jay Tiegs (00:52):
Doing great for Monday.
I've been up since like 2.30,so we're, I feel, wide awake
this morning.
I mean, I never know wherewe're going to get these morning
, these.
I don't sleep well on Sundaynights and so I never know.
Sometimes I have a sleepymorning and sometimes I have
like a really early.
So I got up this morning tosome riding, to some yoga.
I'm ready to go.
Angi Betran (01:11):
I am you this morning.
You're normal this morning.
I am dead tired and draggingass and I'm just happy to be
here.
Jay Tiegs (01:19):
It seems like it's like one of us is like wide
awake and perky, the other one'sjust like dragging along.
Yeah so here we are, yes, sotoday we're going to talk about
training, or straining, avoidovertraining syndrome.
There's a lot of runners outthere that deal with
overtraining.
I'm actually dealing with alittle bit of it myself.
I know that Lacey is.
We've been training for ourmarathon, we've got the big
(01:40):
expedition coming up.
It's a topic that a lot ofrunners struggle with.
So we want to kind of dive deepinto the topic of overtraining
maybe some signs and symptoms soyou can avoid it.
Like, why does it happen to us?
What are the different stagesof it?
Because at the end of the day,we want to make sure that we are
we're able to continuouslytrain and avoid overtraining,
(02:02):
overdoing it, so we can crushthat next race.
But before we get into today'sepisode, just a few housekeeping
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So that's it.
That's it for the business endof things.
So this morning let's talk aboutovertraining.
Are you training or straining?
(04:28):
So the challenge with manynovice runners and endurance
athletes is they often try toachieve too much too quick.
Our mind is striving forperfection and it's difficult to
synchronize the mind and thebody together and that's the
harmonious relationship we'retrying to achieve is our mind
(04:53):
and our body, and oftentimes ourmind will push harder than our
body is capable, and that canlead us to overtraining.
Angie, when was the time tograb a time that you felt
overtrained, and what led tothat and what did it feel like
for you?
Angi Betran (05:07):
Ooh, I overtrained for my first Ragnar.
I ended up with shin splints andoh yeah, I went to the doctor
and I didn't even.
I went because I had knee painand they did some x-rays and
they came back with I didn'twasn't even expecting shin
(05:27):
splints and I was just adding tomy mileage, to too much mileage
, too quickly, but I was soexcited.
You know that.
I think that's for me, that'swhat always leads to
overtraining is because I'mexcited for the event that I'm
training for and I just want todo my best and you know, I just
didn't, didn't train properly.
Jay Tiegs (05:49):
Yeah, and you know, shouldn't sponsor just little
micro fractures or splinteringof your head.
Let unchecked it can lead to acomplete fracture and near
painful.
I've dealt with that earlier onin my life and they're horrible
and, yeah, too much, too quickand the only way, the only way
that you can really mitigatethose, is to back off, which is
(06:10):
frustrating, yes, frustratingyou.
To do all the work and thenhave to find yourself backing
off.
Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
Oh, man, a couple of thingscome to mind.
I think my I've been, I've hadchronic overtraining where I was
completely overtrained when Iwent to Saper school in the
military.
That was a big train up in a 28day course.
(06:31):
That just led me completelyexhausted and and it took me, it
took me like six months to overrecover from that one.
And then when I did theMissouri River 340, the well,
both times were pretty brutal,but that that the first time
that I did it solo did not trainproperly, I didn't know really
(06:52):
how to train, for the MissouriRiver 340 is 340 miles across
the state of Missouri and youhave 88 hours to get from point
A to point B took me 78.
It took me probably shootprobably four months to recover
from that one.
And I it was like I would go outon just a simple run, that, and
I couldn't even keep pace LikeI was.
(07:13):
I was in the army at the timeand I'm a pretty fast runner,
but I couldn't even.
I could barely keep pace withthe what the minimum required of
the ACFT.
I was just so exhausted, sodepleted, you know, and it must
muscle atrophy and the whole,the whole gamut, and from that
(07:33):
it just takes a while to recover.
So just extreme event, but I'veover trained, over reached, if
you will, over reaches anotherterm for it's over training, but
not to the complete point ofcomplete depletion and that's,
you know, prolonged musclesoreness and things like that.
I've done that quite a fewtimes.
I've suffered with like shinsplints and, and you know,
training for like marathons andthings like that, and it's not
(07:55):
fun.
Angi Betran (07:56):
The whole month of February.
I pretty much have been sore.
Yes.
Jay Tiegs (08:01):
So February has become an annual tradition of
overtraining.
Angi Betran (08:05):
Yes, we know we're going to do it from zero to
Taju 100.
Jay Tiegs (08:10):
And so that's why this month's challenge, we've
really, really scaled it backthis month and that's why we
want to talk about this topicbecause you might, you know,
from the very first of the year,come out the gate strong.
You might feel yourself feelinga little over trained at the
moment.
So I know I'm certainly feelingit, so we want to talk about
that today.
I think over training isincredibly frustrating and it's
the most common of runningailments that set runners back.
(08:34):
And you know coaching runnersand coaching soldiers in the
military, it was a constantbattle of trying to scale people
back and not overdo it tooquickly and you know it's been a
lot of time.
You know talking and comfortingrunners.
Who's greed and training you'retrying to.
You know, log in all thosemiles, you get greedy with all
(08:56):
the training, reaping all thoserewards of the dopamine hit of I
accomplished this and thatreduces you to like being the
walking wounded where you'rejust struggling to just get
through the day walking aroundthe house.
So, that's a.
That's a constant battle, right?
So some of the signs thatyou're over trained, just
general fatigue, just generalbeing tired, and that fatigue
(09:20):
can affect your mood and yourmood is often one of the first
indicators.
And I, you're, your friends andfamily around you will probably
often notice you're overtraining before you do, which is
a.
It's a real challenge, but thefirst thing is fatigue and it
directly affects your mood.
So if you're finding yourselfmore irritable, more cranky,
tired, like you're getting upout of bed in the morning and
(09:42):
you're just a little bit moretired, or you're having a hard
time going to sleep and theweird thing is about fatigue is
that it leads to like, althoughyou're tired, you can't sleep
very well, so it's kind ofprocreate, it exasperates the
fatigue.
That's.
That's sign number one.
Recurrent headaches is prettycommon, having a lot of
headaches.
Diarrhea no, people won't talkabout that, but you know you
(10:05):
have some gastrointestinalissues.
Diarrhea is a sign you mighthave some weight loss.
You might notice a differencein your libido, so you might
have less desire for sexualintercourse, loss of appetite or
food.
So all of those are prettycommon indicators that you might
be over, over training.
You might have a hard time likejust relaxing, which is weird
(10:30):
when you're like I said, whenyou're fatigued, like you have a
hard time relaxing.
You have restlessness.
You might have swelling of yourlymph nodes.
You might notice like yourallergies are getting worse than
normal, especially like you'rehere in the Midwest.
We're about to go into spring.
I noticed that the other day.
I can tell when I have certainallergies and I'm feeling a
(10:51):
little over trained.
I'm like man I kind of noticedpicking up some allergies
already and I'm like that's kindof odd because I usually it was
just an indicator to me, likeit was another sign that popped
up you might be susceptible tocold and flu and other
respiratory infections more thannormal when you're over trained
because your body's just sodepleted.
So really, what you've done ifyou just you've stretched your
(11:14):
body beyond your breaking pointand you're straining your immune
system.
I had something interestinghappen last week.
It's happened before but I didthat.
I did that, rogaine, thatOrientering event.
So we were eight hoursultimately finished like, let's
say, we got 25 miles total in Ithink during the event was like
23.
But when I got home I got thechills, mm-hmm, and your body
(11:40):
can go into like a flu likestate when you're completely
depleted and I was.
I wasn't like.
It just kind of hit me all of asudden and I had to go get some
blankets and get a coat, put iton, put my beanie on and I was
like freezing and I was justeating and just, you know,
trying to replenish my fluids.
But yeah, if you, if you havethings like that that pop up,
(12:02):
that could be a sign that you'reover trying.
It went away after about like90 minutes, but it was like
miserable for a little bit.
Angi Betran (12:07):
Oh, yeah, your head that happened to you.
Yes, actually I have.
Now that you bring that up andlike oh wow, I've, that's
happened to me before, I didn'tand I didn't even put two and
two together, but yeah.
Jay Tiegs (12:19):
And it's not like the bone chill of being out in
the cold, it's like legitimatechills like you'd have like a
flu, like symptoms, really weird.
But yeah, your body, body's aweird thing.
So and so over training.
There's a term for this, calledovertraining syndrome.
It's legit.
So overtraining syndrome.
This occurs when an athletedoesn't adequately recover after
(12:40):
repetitive, intense training,which can include fatigue,
declining performance andpotential injury.
There's two Classificationswhen it comes to this it's
called overreaching andovertraining.
So overreaching is is musclesoreness, above and beyond what
you typically experience.
You might do like a hardworkout or maybe a race, and you
(13:01):
might have a couple consecutivedays of like muscle soreness.
So, like Saturday, the SaturdayI ran 23 miles and I was
feeling pretty beat up yesterday.
I'm a little sore this morning,but so I overreached on
Saturday Feeling a little rundown, you know, feeling a little
tired, but with a little rest Ishould be bouncing back, sit
(13:21):
like tomorrow and the day afterI should be kind of back to
normal.
Over training occurs when anathlete ignores the sign of
overreaching, continues to trainand then that that, and the
pitfall is that athlete willbelieve that the poor
performance, which is reallyoverreaching, signals that they
(13:42):
need to even train even harderso they don't let up on the
training, and that leads youinto that state of being
completely over trained and thatonly breaks the body down
further.
And there are, there are, wasit called?
It's a.
It's called the valley offatigue.
(14:03):
There is a.
There's a chart that I'll seeif I can post.
Don't make a, put it on theblog or something like that.
There's a gentleman by the nameof councilman who put together
fatigue zones and there are likethree fatigue zones that you
can get yourself into.
There's adaptation, which ispretty normal.
(14:24):
This is where you, you know youmight start your, your workout
series on a.
You know it's a.
You got training week fromMonday through Sunday start
Monday, monday through Friday.
You're working out pretty hard.
By the end of Friday You'repretty tired.
You take Saturday and Sunday torecover and you bounce right
back and then Monday you're backin it.
That's the adaptation zone.
That's zone a.
Zone B is where you're pushing alittle bit harder and this is
(14:47):
called the failing zone, thevalley of fatigue.
You're gonna notice this iswhere you tend to overreach and
you're gonna feel that thatcomplete soreness.
But if you overreach looks likea little bit too far, it could
take you longer to recover,mm-hmm.
The failing adaptation zone iszone C.
This is where people pushthemselves so hard.
They go through the, forexample, they go through the
(15:09):
weekend and try to recover andthey don't bounce back and they
push hard again the followingweek and they only make that
value of fatigue even deeper andit gets to a point where it
breaks them.
And so the only way to reallycombat this is to really
understand these zones, and thenthe best way is to keep like a
training log, so when you do Anexercise, that is like a routine
(15:33):
that you've done before, youcan measure and See kind of
where you're at, and if you'renoticing the signs of fatigue or
you feel that you should bebouncing back but you're not
well, then you're probably in afatigue zone or the valley of
fatigue, and so that's achallenge for people for sure,
and I know that I have done that.
Angi Betran (15:51):
So yeah, for sure.
Well, I use a Garmin watch.
I don't remember what model Ihave, but after every activity
it asks me how I feel, and evenit get from green to red and
then with Smiley faces and notsmiley faces.
So you know that helps track,helps me subconsciously track.
(16:15):
You know it's, it's what Idon't even have to think about
it.
Thankfully it's built right in.
Jay Tiegs (16:22):
Yeah that.
So those you know smartwatchesare fantastic because it does
attract your sleep as well,mm-hmm.
Yeah, so you can track yoursleep.
I know I had one of those.
Oh, what do you call it?
Oh, it's one of those the whoopstrap.
I had the whoop strap for alittle bit and I loved it.
I used it for about three monthsand eventually I took it off
(16:42):
because I loved it, because itwould give me great feedback on
my sleep.
But I noticed, if I had like ared you know you wake up and
it'd be like red, yellow orGreen, green days were great, I
felt great.
But I would feel like I got adecent night's sleep and to be a
red day, I'm like, and I wouldjust psychologically, it would
just like throw me off the restof the day, like, well, I guess
I'm obviously tired, I can't doanything today, so I'm like I
(17:03):
got take this thing off.
But I really got in tune withmy sleeping patterns.
It really made me aware of how,like alcohol really affected my
body in my sleep.
No, so all those metrics aregreat and and what I learned is
that you know you do need moretime than you realize to recover
properly, and you know you, youshould probably work out
yourself to exhaustion, liketwice a week, and when I, when I
(17:26):
, do my running plans for myrunners, you know we have two
quality sessions.
Those are your super, those areyour hard days ones usually
going to be more intense, liketempo training.
The other one's going to beyour long run day.
Everything else is like easyruns, like super easy
conversational pace.
You're having a good time andone of the indicators and this
happens to a lot of runners ofOf over training is monotonous
(17:50):
runs the same old pace, the sameold distance, without giving
yourself a break, and then youmight add an extra workout like
a gym workout in there and thatjust leads to this compounding
effect that can lead to overtraining.
That's usually where I findyo-yo runners, runners that will
run for a little bit.
They get so burnt out, they getover trained, they get sore.
(18:12):
They want to quit runningbecause every run sucks, because
they're doing every run thesame, they're pushing hard.
Every run, same run, samedistance.
They can't keep up with it, andthat's usually where people
burn out with running, and thathence why you need the different
running paces and every, everyrun should have a purpose.
So, Minotin, if you're amonotonous runner, you have no
plan.
You're just kind of goingsaying you got the same route,
(18:34):
picked out, the same pace everyday and you're doing that thing.
It's, it's only a matter you'regonna, you're gonna over train,
you're gonna burn out whathappens.
So, yeah, so the the, the singlemost important reason that
runners are prone to overtraining is they do not have the
ability to make an objectiveAssessments of their own
(18:56):
performance capabilities.
We don't accept that we'remortal and that we have a
performance range and that ourmind pushes, pushes us outside
of that range because we're nottracking those metrics and we
believe that the harder we train, the faster we'll run.
There's a lot of evidence thatwill indicate that that's untrue
, but we don't, we're ignorantto it, or we?
(19:18):
We just can't rationalize thatthat if I just let up that, you
know I'm gonna improve, and soin an ultimate act of our you
know just our pride and ego willcontinue to push hard.
We can't interpret our ownperformance and then we just
continue to train harder.
We have a poor outcome at arace or an event and then we
(19:42):
continue to push even harder,and harder, and harder, and then
that leads to complete overtraining and then you get
frustrated.
Yeah, so that's the cycle thata lot of runners find themselves
in.
Angi Betran (19:52):
Yeah, that's what that.
So that's another reason why soI?
You know I do intervals.
I, when I run, I run intervals.
And when I first startedrunning intervals, I was like
there's no way I'm going to getfaster.
Actually, I was like I don't,I'm not even going to continue
running intervals, because my mypace slowed down because you're
(20:13):
walking and running.
But I stuck with it.
I'm like you know what?
There's science behind it.
I've I've read up on it.
Let me just keep going.
And then, when I ran my halfmarathon using intervals, my
pace increased from prior tojust running all the way through
.
But that's because I allowed mybody to have that break, to
(20:35):
have that rest and trainedproperly.
And so it's amazing what restcan do for you.
Jay Tiegs (20:43):
Yes, rest and recovery is a critical part of
training.
It is training so like, oh, Igot to take it, I can't take it
easy.
That all you need to take iteasy today.
You need that, you need that,you need that break and recover.
That's where you rebuild.
So incredibly important.
And so I think that's, you know,that's, that's the, that's the
need for a training plan and, tobe honest, a coach, like a good
(21:06):
coach, can tell you when you'reover training and try to help
you, talk you off the ledge,because they can spot it.
Like, when I review my weeklytraining, when I review my
weekly athletes running log, Ican see their heart rate, I can
see, you know, I can see alltheir paces and I give them
feedback based off that.
Like, hey, you, I can noticewhen they have an increase in
fitness.
Because I had an athlete theother day I'm like, hey, man, I
think you're ready to bump it upa little bit and he did, and he
(21:29):
held up great and feeling good.
And I've had another athletewho's like kind of on the
struggle bus.
We got to scale back and it'sdifficult when you're doing it
yourself.
Hence, you know, having someonethere in your corner to help
you out with.
That is really helpful.
And having a training plan soyou don't make the.
It's just some minor tweaks.
A lot of people like me I don'tneed to do that, but I'm
(21:49):
telling you those minor tweakswill make a huge difference in
your performance.
And so, yeah, that's, that'sthe case for you know, having
someone to bounce those, havinga coach, having a, having a
training plan to go off of andyou know, really working on the
mindset, studying this, becausethe biggest I feel like I spend
more time telling my runnerswhen I train them to slow down
(22:11):
than I am speeding up, but bydoing so, they speed up.
Yeah, and I'm like coach, coachis going to help me to run
faster and faster.
It's actually run slower.
You run slow so you can runfast.
Right now goes back to a fewepisodes ago.
When you run slow, you'rebuilding mitochondria, you're
building running efficiency,you're putting you know that
there's reasons for the slow runand there's reasons for the
(22:32):
fast run, and they have to belaid out just right and you'll
gain maximum effectiveness.
Yeah, someone says they're onthe struggle bus out there.
You're not alone out there.
There's a lot of people thatare challenged with that.
If we can help you out, let usknow love to help you out.
But but yeah, that, and that'swhere the earlier runners and I
used to be one, used to be one Iwould run hard.
(22:52):
This is when I was young.
I didn't know anything aboutrecovery.
When you're young, you can dothis.
You can get up every day andpush hard and but, as I find,
with every decade of my runningcareer, if you will, there's
some new nuances that I have tolearn, and I've learned the
power of recovery, days offlexibility, of you know having
(23:15):
a set.
You know every run, everyspecific, every one of your run
should have a specific purpose,and if you're not doing that,
then you're wrong.
Angi Betran (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, and you know.
So something that comes to mindis one practice during roller
derby.
One of the skaters was likeyeah, you know, I just it's so
hard when we do X, y and Z drillbecause, you know, afterward my
feet hurt so bad and bubble.
I'm like, take it down a notch.
Like you know your body, if youneed to take it down a notch,
(23:46):
take it.
That's why, that's why we givemodifications and and what came
out of her mouth was and it'sring so true, because I've been
there.
Well, you know, I just can'ttake it down a notch.
I just can't do that.
I just can't do that.
If you tell us to do it, wehave to do it.
I just have to go full, full on.
And in the back of my mind youknow I'm laughing because I'm
like I've been there, I've donethat.
But no, listen to your body,listen to your body and if you
(24:08):
need to scale it back, scale itback.
Jay Tiegs (24:09):
Like that is the next level of like discipline,
because it's it's and there's somuch science written about this
like it's all about being ableto peak at the right time so you
can amplify your performance.
Yes, if you're going out allthe time hard, all the time,
you're only going to achieve acertain level of success and
you're leaving so much potentialon the on the table Because of
(24:33):
your stubbornness yeah, it'sbeing stubborn.
Angi Betran (24:38):
Yes.
Jay Tiegs (24:39):
And so that's.
I know it's counterintuitive,but the the science and data
doesn't lie.
So you, that's that would bemindset.
If you want to, if you want toincrease your performance with
running, you've got to believethat there's got to be recovery
days, that every run has apurpose and to scale yourself
back.
(24:59):
And you know you got to do theflexibility work and you got to
do these other things and ityou'll improve.
Angi Betran (25:06):
Well, yeah, you know something that really shows
growth, I think, as a runner aswell, as when you're out and
you're running a race, somethingreally big, you know at the
beginning of the race,everybody's hyped up, they've
counted down, you're taking offfrom the, from the start line.
If, if you can control yourself,control your pace and pace
(25:26):
yourself that very first mileand not run anyone else's race,
run your own race at your pace,I think that shows humongous
growth as a runner.
Yeah, when you can be cognitivein that moment of excitement and
just brah because so manypeople take off and they're just
going balls to the wall,they're, they're trying to keep
(25:49):
up with the crowd, they'retrying to keep up with everybody
.
And then you know they get acouple miles and they're like,
oh my god, just why did I dothat?
You know I do that every time,but I really think it.
You just Pay attention, payattention to your, your pace and
go out with a purpose and andmaintain that and and exercise
(26:10):
that control and you'll reallysee the benefits During the at
least for me the second half ofthe race, when I control myself
the first half of the run, orthe first half of the race that
I can really kick it in in thehigher gear, that that second
half and and perform outperformthe people that passed me in the
beginning.
Jay Tiegs (26:30):
Yeah, that from a you know, from a performance
perspective, it does not impressme to take off hard and then
like, blow up during the race,run a positive split.
I'm really impressed with therunner that can Slowly,
gradually take off and then getfaster as the race progresses.
That that's what we train forand that that takes a.
That takes a lot of Just mentalgrit and fortitude and, like
(26:55):
you said, being able to holdyourself back.
I had a coach one time.
We, a cross-country team, wewould.
We were like that we would takeoff too quick and we caught
ourselves kind of blowing up andrunning some positive splits.
So there's a couple races wherehe's like you're, you guys are
all running together for thefirst like Quarter mile at this
pace and then and then you guyscan go and like so we had like
(27:16):
the slow start and then we wouldpick off people as we went but
it was like oh, it was like thisultimate punishment, but it
trained us to not take off soquickly and and blow up.
So All right.
So let's talk about how do weavoid over training.
What are some strategies andMethodologies?
Hat, no, so like for you, like,how do you know when you're
feeling over trained.
What do you?
What do you do and how do youscale it back?
(27:37):
I?
Angi Betran (27:40):
Listen to my body number one, I usually can tell
if I'm not, if I'm have too muchprolonged soreness and I'm not
feeling my muscles are just toosore too long when I'm going out
on my training runs.
I just have to look at mytraining log.
I write my my training Outmonths at a time and then I'll
(28:04):
go back and tweak it.
If I, if I'm having a weekwhere I'm like I'm just tired, I
don't feel well, I'm notenjoying the run, I look at that
week and I tweak the mileage onthat week and then I tweak my
plan moving forward and I reallytry to say, cognizant of how
much sleep I'm getting and justhow I feel mentally, really yeah
(28:26):
.
Jay Tiegs (28:26):
so having flexibility in your plan and
being able to adjust it andscale it, because some people
are like I got to stick to theplan.
The plan is the plan andthere's no flexibility in it.
Now you got to be able to toadjust it accordingly.
Yeah, so, and that's hard to do, it's hard to scale it back, it
really is.
Yeah, but that's the discipline, that's the next level.
Thinking of like I know if Isee a problem.
Next level, thinking of like Iknow, if I scale it back, I'm
(28:49):
gonna be able to recover, bounceback from this and I'll be
stronger yeah, so that'sincredibly important and to your
point.
You just got listen to yourbody.
You got to be really in tunewith you know, look out for
those signs that we talked aboutthe fatigue, the headaches, the
, the difference in your libido,the all of those things, your
overall prevailing mood ifyou're having some
gastrointestinal issues.
(29:10):
Keeping a training log is reallyimportant, so you can, and
there's some athletes that didthis really well, like Mark
Allen, who is a Multiple Ironmanwinner, was notorious for his
meticulous note taking he wouldhave, he would bounce off his
workouts from the previous years, even like he had years of the
(29:31):
same workouts, and he couldadjust and tell Exactly where he
was at from this chart here thefatigue zones, and when he
would peak.
Now, for most of us, we're not aleaf level athletes, but just
keeping a simple log of your youknow distances and paces, and
that's what I love about the appthat I use when I train my my
athletes is like we have thatlog, we have all the data.
(29:52):
I got the heart rate data,we've got the miles and broken
down by split, so that stuff isthere to go back and review.
And a lot of times We'll do youknow, we'll do the yes, so 800s
and I bring those about.
It's like you can bounce backoff your previous effort and
like are you Fatigued?
Are you, are you actuallyimproving your fitness?
And so those training logs areincredibly important and they
don't have to be incrediblydetailed, but you know that's
(30:13):
the most you're good.
Make sure that you look atrecovery like be at peace with
your rest days and embrace themand look forward to them and not
think that You're not, thatthat would be my biggest People.
Drop the guilt.
Drop the guilt on your days, yesrealize that is a part of
there's a fundamental part ofyour training.
(30:35):
Drop the guilt on your restdays.
Acknowledge when you'reoverdoing it.
Making sure that you're eatingenough calories and nutrients,
getting enough of the rightcalories.
I think you're doing yourself adisservice.
If you Train hard, then you justlike whatever I can eat,
whatever the hell I want.
So you just Eat burgers andfries and beers and I do this
sometimes.
So I'm guilty of this.
(30:55):
But I'm also acknowledging thatI need to get some vitamins in
me and I probably need to.
But there was a time where Ithought I could eat whatever the
hell I wanted to and what I wasdoing is putting in a bunch of
junk in me and I'm depleting mybody.
I think that's worse for you.
Yeah, you were to just notexercise, maybe eat the crap
because You're you're,especially when you're doing
like endurance sports, becauseit's like I'm pushing myself so
(31:16):
hard and I'm just feeling withcrap.
Yeah, I think that can hurt.
You drink lots of water,properly dehydrated, and yeah,
those are.
Yeah, there's some some tips,anything that we miss there.
Angi Betran (31:31):
No, I think we hit the.
We hit it on the head.
We got to, we touched on allthe major points, all the things
that sometimes we tend tooverlook and that are easy to
overlook.
Yeah, because we've all done it.
Jay Tiegs (31:42):
We've all been there and I saw something the other
day.
Someone said this like don'tjust work out, train, train.
Like don't just work out, andthen what I what that makes me
think about is having a plan,being deliberate about you know
what you're doing.
Every workout should have aspecific purpose.
If you're doing the workout andyou don't know why you're doing
it, that's an indicator thatmaybe we don't have, we're not
(32:04):
training properly.
And what would it take to get aproperly, a proper plan, and
you can.
You know you can download afree cookie cutter plan.
You can.
You can go hire a coach.
You can get a, you know, aphysical train.
There's a lot of differentmodalities based on what you're
looking for, but whatever thatis for, you have have a plan and
(32:25):
, you know, seek some feedbackand educate yourself, because
you can actually train smarter,not harder, and you'll improve
your performance, you'll feelbetter in general and you'll
you'll get that nextbreakthrough.
Yeah, so that's, I guess that'sthat's my final thoughts on
that.
I didn't realize it was already632.
Are you doing okay, on time yougot to.
Angi Betran (32:43):
I got to go.
Jay Tiegs (32:44):
Okay, All right, you got to go go.
Do you want me to you?
Angi Betran (32:47):
want to bounce off .
Well, no, let's, let's let's,let's finish.
Jay Tiegs (32:49):
We finished Winner.
Yes, all right, let's do thisAll right.
This weekend there was an epicbattle in Queenie Park.
It was a backyard ultras, whichis a.
Basically what they do is theyhave these around the country,
but it was like for thisparticular one, it was 4.1 miles
.
In Queenie Park, just outsideSt Louis had some friends that
were out there running thisweekend and I was watching,
(33:12):
cheering them on.
I watched this battle unfold.
I don't know these gentlemen,but it was so incredibly awesome
to see them just getting afterit.
So basically every hour on thehour, you run 4.1 miles.
If you get back to your tent,you know, basically they start
the, they start the horn everyhour on the hour until it's the
(33:32):
last person standing.
I think they had about ahundred people start and really
they go until there's one personstanding and Dave I hope I'm
saying your name rightKauaitawski.
Kauaitawski ran 251 miles in 59hours and 50 minutes and Cody
(33:54):
Eubanks was his assist ran at247 miles in 58.
So these guys are babbling itout.
Cody, for whatever reason youknow, he, he, he did, he didn't
make it to that last one andthen Dave finished in that.
That's the line.
That's how they run thesebackyard ultras there's only one
person standing.
(34:15):
Awesome, queenie Ultra Look atthat plackered there.
So both of these guys, we'regoing to send them both a shirt,
because it was pretty 251 mileswith having those stops.
They started on Friday morningso they ran all through the
weekend nonstop and I can'timagine how incredibly difficult
that is.
You want to talk about mindsetand grit and determination,
(34:38):
incredible efforts.
So we want to acknowledge bothDave and Cody for doing hard
things and appreciate you guys,appreciate that effort pretty
inspirational, so it inspires meto want to go do one.
Angi Betran (34:48):
So oh yeah, and I'm going to be on the bucket
list like 100 million percent.
Jay Tiegs (34:53):
Absolutely so.
Appreciate y'all and thank youfor showing us what doing hard
things is all about.
So that's it.
That's all I got you guys havea fantastic Monday.
Yes, angie.
Angi Betran (35:04):
Go forth and make somebody smile.
Today it's Monday.
Make somebody smile, man, let'sdo it.
I'm making myself smile and I'mlike I'm.
I'm not even halfway here, butI'm here and I'm smiling and I'm
going to make somebody smile,whether it's uncomfortable or
not, Whether they like it or not, they're going to smile.
That's my goal today to makegive somebody a really
uncomfortable smile or they justkind of look at you like oh.
Jay Tiegs (35:28):
I like the uncomfortable ones.
That's always the more fun ones.
Angi Betran (35:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm doing today.
Jay Tiegs (35:33):
Awesome, all right, all right.
Well, yeah, have a fantasticday.
I was going to shut this thingdown, but I don't.
I lost my, I lost the thinghere.
Oh, there, we are All right.
All right, y'all, have a greatMonday.
See you guys, do hard things.
Angi Betran (35:44):
See ya.
Jay Tiegs (35:45):
Bye.
All right, welcome back everybody to another
episode of the Do Our Thingspodcast.
I'm JT and I have it studiowith me, lovely Angie Patran.
How you doing, angie.
Angi Betran (00:51):
I'm doing great.
How are you doing?
Jay Tiegs (00:52):
Doing great for Monday.
I've been up since like 2.30,so we're, I feel, wide awake
this morning.
I mean, I never know wherewe're going to get these morning
, these.
I don't sleep well on Sundaynights and so I never know.
Sometimes I have a sleepymorning and sometimes I have
like a really early.
So I got up this morning tosome riding, to some yoga.
I'm ready to go.
Angi Betran (01:11):
I am you this morning.
You're normal this morning.
I am dead tired and draggingass and I'm just happy to be
here.
Jay Tiegs (01:19):
It seems like it's like one of us is like wide
awake and perky, the other one'sjust like dragging along.
Yeah so here we are, yes, sotoday we're going to talk about
training, or straining, avoidovertraining syndrome.
There's a lot of runners outthere that deal with
overtraining.
I'm actually dealing with alittle bit of it myself.
I know that Lacey is.
We've been training for ourmarathon, we've got the big
(01:40):
expedition coming up.
It's a topic that a lot ofrunners struggle with.
So we want to kind of dive deepinto the topic of overtraining
maybe some signs and symptoms soyou can avoid it.
Like, why does it happen to us?
What are the different stagesof it?
Because at the end of the day,we want to make sure that we are
we're able to continuouslytrain and avoid overtraining,
(02:02):
overdoing it, so we can crushthat next race.
But before we get into today'sepisode, just a few housekeeping
notes.
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(02:22):
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(03:03):
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(03:24):
Let's see here.
So this episode is sponsored byDo More Things Nation.
This is our community of funpeople who do unfun things we're
talking about this time.
We're remarkably fun peoplethat do unfun things like punish
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So you want to be around agroup of like-minded people who
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If you want a hat, shirt,something motivational, go to
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So that's it.
That's it for the business endof things.
So this morning let's talk aboutovertraining.
Are you training or straining?
(04:28):
So the challenge with manynovice runners and endurance
athletes is they often try toachieve too much too quick.
Our mind is striving forperfection and it's difficult to
synchronize the mind and thebody together and that's the
harmonious relationship we'retrying to achieve is our mind
(04:53):
and our body, and oftentimes ourmind will push harder than our
body is capable, and that canlead us to overtraining.
Angie, when was the time tograb a time that you felt
overtrained, and what led tothat and what did it feel like
for you?
Angi Betran (05:07):
Ooh, I overtrained for my first Ragnar.
I ended up with shin splints andoh yeah, I went to the doctor
and I didn't even.
I went because I had knee painand they did some x-rays and
they came back with I didn'twasn't even expecting shin
(05:27):
splints and I was just adding tomy mileage, to too much mileage
, too quickly, but I was soexcited.
You know that.
I think that's for me, that'swhat always leads to
overtraining is because I'mexcited for the event that I'm
training for and I just want todo my best and you know, I just
didn't, didn't train properly.
Jay Tiegs (05:49):
Yeah, and you know, shouldn't sponsor just little
micro fractures or splinteringof your head.
Let unchecked it can lead to acomplete fracture and near
painful.
I've dealt with that earlier onin my life and they're horrible
and, yeah, too much, too quickand the only way, the only way
that you can really mitigatethose, is to back off, which is
(06:10):
frustrating, yes, frustratingyou.
To do all the work and thenhave to find yourself backing
off.
Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
Oh, man, a couple of thingscome to mind.
I think my I've been, I've hadchronic overtraining where I was
completely overtrained when Iwent to Saper school in the
military.
That was a big train up in a 28day course.
(06:31):
That just led me completelyexhausted and and it took me, it
took me like six months to overrecover from that one.
And then when I did theMissouri River 340, the well,
both times were pretty brutal,but that that the first time
that I did it solo did not trainproperly, I didn't know really
(06:52):
how to train, for the MissouriRiver 340 is 340 miles across
the state of Missouri and youhave 88 hours to get from point
A to point B took me 78.
It took me probably shootprobably four months to recover
from that one.
And I it was like I would go outon just a simple run, that, and
I couldn't even keep pace LikeI was.
(07:13):
I was in the army at the timeand I'm a pretty fast runner,
but I couldn't even.
I could barely keep pace withthe what the minimum required of
the ACFT.
I was just so exhausted, sodepleted, you know, and it must
muscle atrophy and the whole,the whole gamut, and from that
(07:33):
it just takes a while to recover.
So just extreme event, but I'veover trained, over reached, if
you will, over reaches anotherterm for it's over training, but
not to the complete point ofcomplete depletion and that's,
you know, prolonged musclesoreness and things like that.
I've done that quite a fewtimes.
I've suffered with like shinsplints and, and you know,
training for like marathons andthings like that, and it's not
(07:55):
fun.
Angi Betran (07:56):
The whole month of February.
I pretty much have been sore.
Yes.
Jay Tiegs (08:01):
So February has become an annual tradition of
overtraining.
Angi Betran (08:05):
Yes, we know we're going to do it from zero to
Taju 100.
Jay Tiegs (08:10):
And so that's why this month's challenge, we've
really, really scaled it backthis month and that's why we
want to talk about this topicbecause you might, you know,
from the very first of the year,come out the gate strong.
You might feel yourself feelinga little over trained at the
moment.
So I know I'm certainly feelingit, so we want to talk about
that today.
I think over training isincredibly frustrating and it's
the most common of runningailments that set runners back.
(08:34):
And you know coaching runnersand coaching soldiers in the
military, it was a constantbattle of trying to scale people
back and not overdo it tooquickly and you know it's been a
lot of time.
You know talking and comfortingrunners.
Who's greed and training you'retrying to.
You know, log in all thosemiles, you get greedy with all
(08:56):
the training, reaping all thoserewards of the dopamine hit of I
accomplished this and thatreduces you to like being the
walking wounded where you'rejust struggling to just get
through the day walking aroundthe house.
So, that's a.
That's a constant battle, right?
So some of the signs thatyou're over trained, just
general fatigue, just generalbeing tired, and that fatigue
(09:20):
can affect your mood and yourmood is often one of the first
indicators.
And I, you're, your friends andfamily around you will probably
often notice you're overtraining before you do, which is
a.
It's a real challenge, but thefirst thing is fatigue and it
directly affects your mood.
So if you're finding yourselfmore irritable, more cranky,
tired, like you're getting upout of bed in the morning and
(09:42):
you're just a little bit moretired, or you're having a hard
time going to sleep and theweird thing is about fatigue is
that it leads to like, althoughyou're tired, you can't sleep
very well, so it's kind ofprocreate, it exasperates the
fatigue.
That's.
That's sign number one.
Recurrent headaches is prettycommon, having a lot of
headaches.
Diarrhea no, people won't talkabout that, but you know you
(10:05):
have some gastrointestinalissues.
Diarrhea is a sign you mighthave some weight loss.
You might notice a differencein your libido, so you might
have less desire for sexualintercourse, loss of appetite or
food.
So all of those are prettycommon indicators that you might
be over, over training.
You might have a hard time likejust relaxing, which is weird
(10:30):
when you're like I said, whenyou're fatigued, like you have a
hard time relaxing.
You have restlessness.
You might have swelling of yourlymph nodes.
You might notice like yourallergies are getting worse than
normal, especially like you'rehere in the Midwest.
We're about to go into spring.
I noticed that the other day.
I can tell when I have certainallergies and I'm feeling a
(10:51):
little over trained.
I'm like man I kind of noticedpicking up some allergies
already and I'm like that's kindof odd because I usually it was
just an indicator to me, likeit was another sign that popped
up you might be susceptible tocold and flu and other
respiratory infections more thannormal when you're over trained
because your body's just sodepleted.
So really, what you've done ifyou just you've stretched your
(11:14):
body beyond your breaking pointand you're straining your immune
system.
I had something interestinghappen last week.
It's happened before but I didthat.
I did that, rogaine, thatOrientering event.
So we were eight hoursultimately finished like, let's
say, we got 25 miles total in Ithink during the event was like
23.
But when I got home I got thechills, mm-hmm, and your body
(11:40):
can go into like a flu likestate when you're completely
depleted and I was.
I wasn't like.
It just kind of hit me all of asudden and I had to go get some
blankets and get a coat, put iton, put my beanie on and I was
like freezing and I was justeating and just, you know,
trying to replenish my fluids.
But yeah, if you, if you havethings like that that pop up,
(12:02):
that could be a sign that you'reover trying.
It went away after about like90 minutes, but it was like
miserable for a little bit.
Angi Betran (12:07):
Oh, yeah, your head that happened to you.
Yes, actually I have.
Now that you bring that up andlike oh wow, I've, that's
happened to me before, I didn'tand I didn't even put two and
two together, but yeah.
Jay Tiegs (12:19):
And it's not like the bone chill of being out in
the cold, it's like legitimatechills like you'd have like a
flu, like symptoms, really weird.
But yeah, your body, body's aweird thing.
So and so over training.
There's a term for this, calledovertraining syndrome.
It's legit.
So overtraining syndrome.
This occurs when an athletedoesn't adequately recover after
(12:40):
repetitive, intense training,which can include fatigue,
declining performance andpotential injury.
There's two Classificationswhen it comes to this it's
called overreaching andovertraining.
So overreaching is is musclesoreness, above and beyond what
you typically experience.
You might do like a hardworkout or maybe a race, and you
(13:01):
might have a couple consecutivedays of like muscle soreness.
So, like Saturday, the SaturdayI ran 23 miles and I was
feeling pretty beat up yesterday.
I'm a little sore this morning,but so I overreached on
Saturday Feeling a little rundown, you know, feeling a little
tired, but with a little rest Ishould be bouncing back, sit
(13:21):
like tomorrow and the day afterI should be kind of back to
normal.
Over training occurs when anathlete ignores the sign of
overreaching, continues to trainand then that that, and the
pitfall is that athlete willbelieve that the poor
performance, which is reallyoverreaching, signals that they
(13:42):
need to even train even harderso they don't let up on the
training, and that leads youinto that state of being
completely over trained and thatonly breaks the body down
further.
And there are, there are, wasit called?
It's a.
It's called the valley offatigue.
(14:03):
There is a.
There's a chart that I'll seeif I can post.
Don't make a, put it on theblog or something like that.
There's a gentleman by the nameof councilman who put together
fatigue zones and there are likethree fatigue zones that you
can get yourself into.
There's adaptation, which ispretty normal.
(14:24):
This is where you, you know youmight start your, your workout
series on a.
You know it's a.
You got training week fromMonday through Sunday start
Monday, monday through Friday.
You're working out pretty hard.
By the end of Friday You'repretty tired.
You take Saturday and Sunday torecover and you bounce right
back and then Monday you're backin it.
That's the adaptation zone.
That's zone a.
Zone B is where you're pushing alittle bit harder and this is
(14:47):
called the failing zone, thevalley of fatigue.
You're gonna notice this iswhere you tend to overreach and
you're gonna feel that thatcomplete soreness.
But if you overreach looks likea little bit too far, it could
take you longer to recover,mm-hmm.
The failing adaptation zone iszone C.
This is where people pushthemselves so hard.
They go through the, forexample, they go through the
(15:09):
weekend and try to recover andthey don't bounce back and they
push hard again the followingweek and they only make that
value of fatigue even deeper andit gets to a point where it
breaks them.
And so the only way to reallycombat this is to really
understand these zones, and thenthe best way is to keep like a
training log, so when you do Anexercise, that is like a routine
(15:33):
that you've done before, youcan measure and See kind of
where you're at, and if you'renoticing the signs of fatigue or
you feel that you should bebouncing back but you're not
well, then you're probably in afatigue zone or the valley of
fatigue, and so that's achallenge for people for sure,
and I know that I have done that.
Angi Betran (15:51):
So yeah, for sure.
Well, I use a Garmin watch.
I don't remember what model Ihave, but after every activity
it asks me how I feel, and evenit get from green to red and
then with Smiley faces and notsmiley faces.
So you know that helps track,helps me subconsciously track.
(16:15):
You know it's, it's what Idon't even have to think about
it.
Thankfully it's built right in.
Jay Tiegs (16:22):
Yeah that.
So those you know smartwatchesare fantastic because it does
attract your sleep as well,mm-hmm.
Yeah, so you can track yoursleep.
I know I had one of those.
Oh, what do you call it?
Oh, it's one of those the whoopstrap.
I had the whoop strap for alittle bit and I loved it.
I used it for about three monthsand eventually I took it off
(16:42):
because I loved it, because itwould give me great feedback on
my sleep.
But I noticed, if I had like ared you know you wake up and
it'd be like red, yellow orGreen, green days were great, I
felt great.
But I would feel like I got adecent night's sleep and to be a
red day, I'm like, and I wouldjust psychologically, it would
just like throw me off the restof the day, like, well, I guess
I'm obviously tired, I can't doanything today, so I'm like I
(17:03):
got take this thing off.
But I really got in tune withmy sleeping patterns.
It really made me aware of how,like alcohol really affected my
body in my sleep.
No, so all those metrics aregreat and and what I learned is
that you know you do need moretime than you realize to recover
properly, and you know you, youshould probably work out
yourself to exhaustion, liketwice a week, and when I, when I
(17:26):
, do my running plans for myrunners, you know we have two
quality sessions.
Those are your super, those areyour hard days ones usually
going to be more intense, liketempo training.
The other one's going to beyour long run day.
Everything else is like easyruns, like super easy
conversational pace.
You're having a good time andone of the indicators and this
happens to a lot of runners ofOf over training is monotonous
(17:50):
runs the same old pace, the sameold distance, without giving
yourself a break, and then youmight add an extra workout like
a gym workout in there and thatjust leads to this compounding
effect that can lead to overtraining.
That's usually where I findyo-yo runners, runners that will
run for a little bit.
They get so burnt out, they getover trained, they get sore.
(18:12):
They want to quit runningbecause every run sucks, because
they're doing every run thesame, they're pushing hard.
Every run, same run, samedistance.
They can't keep up with it, andthat's usually where people
burn out with running, and thathence why you need the different
running paces and every, everyrun should have a purpose.
So, Minotin, if you're amonotonous runner, you have no
plan.
You're just kind of goingsaying you got the same route,
(18:34):
picked out, the same pace everyday and you're doing that thing.
It's, it's only a matter you'regonna, you're gonna over train,
you're gonna burn out whathappens.
So, yeah, so the the, the singlemost important reason that
runners are prone to overtraining is they do not have the
ability to make an objectiveAssessments of their own
(18:56):
performance capabilities.
We don't accept that we'remortal and that we have a
performance range and that ourmind pushes, pushes us outside
of that range because we're nottracking those metrics and we
believe that the harder we train, the faster we'll run.
There's a lot of evidence thatwill indicate that that's untrue
, but we don't, we're ignorantto it, or we?
(19:18):
We just can't rationalize thatthat if I just let up that, you
know I'm gonna improve, and soin an ultimate act of our you
know just our pride and ego willcontinue to push hard.
We can't interpret our ownperformance and then we just
continue to train harder.
We have a poor outcome at arace or an event and then we
(19:42):
continue to push even harder,and harder, and harder, and then
that leads to complete overtraining and then you get
frustrated.
Yeah, so that's the cycle thata lot of runners find themselves
in.
Angi Betran (19:52):
Yeah, that's what that.
So that's another reason why soI?
You know I do intervals.
I, when I run, I run intervals.
And when I first startedrunning intervals, I was like
there's no way I'm going to getfaster.
Actually, I was like I don't,I'm not even going to continue
running intervals, because my mypace slowed down because you're
(20:13):
walking and running.
But I stuck with it.
I'm like you know what?
There's science behind it.
I've I've read up on it.
Let me just keep going.
And then, when I ran my halfmarathon using intervals, my
pace increased from prior tojust running all the way through
.
But that's because I allowed mybody to have that break, to
(20:35):
have that rest and trainedproperly.
And so it's amazing what restcan do for you.
Jay Tiegs (20:43):
Yes, rest and recovery is a critical part of
training.
It is training so like, oh, Igot to take it, I can't take it
easy.
That all you need to take iteasy today.
You need that, you need that,you need that break and recover.
That's where you rebuild.
So incredibly important.
And so I think that's, you know,that's, that's the, that's the
need for a training plan and, tobe honest, a coach, like a good
(21:06):
coach, can tell you when you'reover training and try to help
you, talk you off the ledge,because they can spot it.
Like, when I review my weeklytraining, when I review my
weekly athletes running log, Ican see their heart rate, I can
see, you know, I can see alltheir paces and I give them
feedback based off that.
Like, hey, you, I can noticewhen they have an increase in
fitness.
Because I had an athlete theother day I'm like, hey, man, I
think you're ready to bump it upa little bit and he did, and he
(21:29):
held up great and feeling good.
And I've had another athletewho's like kind of on the
struggle bus.
We got to scale back and it'sdifficult when you're doing it
yourself.
Hence, you know, having someonethere in your corner to help
you out with.
That is really helpful.
And having a training plan soyou don't make the.
It's just some minor tweaks.
A lot of people like me I don'tneed to do that, but I'm
(21:49):
telling you those minor tweakswill make a huge difference in
your performance.
And so, yeah, that's, that'sthe case for you know, having
someone to bounce those, havinga coach, having a, having a
training plan to go off of andyou know, really working on the
mindset, studying this, becausethe biggest I feel like I spend
more time telling my runnerswhen I train them to slow down
(22:11):
than I am speeding up, but bydoing so, they speed up.
Yeah, and I'm like coach, coachis going to help me to run
faster and faster.
It's actually run slower.
You run slow so you can runfast.
Right now goes back to a fewepisodes ago.
When you run slow, you'rebuilding mitochondria, you're
building running efficiency,you're putting you know that
there's reasons for the slow runand there's reasons for the
(22:32):
fast run, and they have to belaid out just right and you'll
gain maximum effectiveness.
Yeah, someone says they're onthe struggle bus out there.
You're not alone out there.
There's a lot of people thatare challenged with that.
If we can help you out, let usknow love to help you out.
But but yeah, that, and that'swhere the earlier runners and I
used to be one, used to be one Iwould run hard.
(22:52):
This is when I was young.
I didn't know anything aboutrecovery.
When you're young, you can dothis.
You can get up every day andpush hard and but, as I find,
with every decade of my runningcareer, if you will, there's
some new nuances that I have tolearn, and I've learned the
power of recovery, days offlexibility, of you know having
(23:15):
a set.
You know every run, everyspecific, every one of your run
should have a specific purpose,and if you're not doing that,
then you're wrong.
Angi Betran (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, and you know.
So something that comes to mindis one practice during roller
derby.
One of the skaters was likeyeah, you know, I just it's so
hard when we do X, y and Z drillbecause, you know, afterward my
feet hurt so bad and bubble.
I'm like, take it down a notch.
Like you know your body, if youneed to take it down a notch,
(23:46):
take it.
That's why, that's why we givemodifications and and what came
out of her mouth was and it'sring so true, because I've been
there.
Well, you know, I just can'ttake it down a notch.
I just can't do that.
I just can't do that.
If you tell us to do it, wehave to do it.
I just have to go full, full on.
And in the back of my mind youknow I'm laughing because I'm
like I've been there, I've donethat.
But no, listen to your body,listen to your body and if you
(24:08):
need to scale it back, scale itback.
Jay Tiegs (24:09):
Like that is the next level of like discipline,
because it's it's and there's somuch science written about this
like it's all about being ableto peak at the right time so you
can amplify your performance.
Yes, if you're going out allthe time hard, all the time,
you're only going to achieve acertain level of success and
you're leaving so much potentialon the on the table Because of
(24:33):
your stubbornness yeah, it'sbeing stubborn.
Angi Betran (24:38):
Yes.
Jay Tiegs (24:39):
And so that's.
I know it's counterintuitive,but the the science and data
doesn't lie.
So you, that's that would bemindset.
If you want to, if you want toincrease your performance with
running, you've got to believethat there's got to be recovery
days, that every run has apurpose and to scale yourself
back.
(24:59):
And you know you got to do theflexibility work and you got to
do these other things and ityou'll improve.
Angi Betran (25:06):
Well, yeah, you know something that really shows
growth, I think, as a runner aswell, as when you're out and
you're running a race, somethingreally big, you know at the
beginning of the race,everybody's hyped up, they've
counted down, you're taking offfrom the, from the start line.
If, if you can control yourself,control your pace and pace
(25:26):
yourself that very first mileand not run anyone else's race,
run your own race at your pace,I think that shows humongous
growth as a runner.
Yeah, when you can be cognitivein that moment of excitement and
just brah because so manypeople take off and they're just
going balls to the wall,they're, they're trying to keep
(25:49):
up with the crowd, they'retrying to keep up with everybody
.
And then you know they get acouple miles and they're like,
oh my god, just why did I dothat?
You know I do that every time,but I really think it.
You just Pay attention, payattention to your, your pace and
go out with a purpose and andmaintain that and and exercise
(26:10):
that control and you'll reallysee the benefits During the at
least for me the second half ofthe race, when I control myself
the first half of the run, orthe first half of the race that
I can really kick it in in thehigher gear, that that second
half and and perform outperformthe people that passed me in the
beginning.
Jay Tiegs (26:30):
Yeah, that from a you know, from a performance
perspective, it does not impressme to take off hard and then
like, blow up during the race,run a positive split.
I'm really impressed with therunner that can Slowly,
gradually take off and then getfaster as the race progresses.
That that's what we train forand that that takes a.
That takes a lot of Just mentalgrit and fortitude and, like
(26:55):
you said, being able to holdyourself back.
I had a coach one time.
We, a cross-country team, wewould.
We were like that we would takeoff too quick and we caught
ourselves kind of blowing up andrunning some positive splits.
So there's a couple races wherehe's like you're, you guys are
all running together for thefirst like Quarter mile at this
pace and then and then you guyscan go and like so we had like
(27:16):
the slow start and then we wouldpick off people as we went but
it was like oh, it was like thisultimate punishment, but it
trained us to not take off soquickly and and blow up.
So All right.
So let's talk about how do weavoid over training.
What are some strategies andMethodologies?
Hat, no, so like for you, like,how do you know when you're
feeling over trained.
What do you?
What do you do and how do youscale it back?
(27:37):
I?
Angi Betran (27:40):
Listen to my body number one, I usually can tell
if I'm not, if I'm have too muchprolonged soreness and I'm not
feeling my muscles are just toosore too long when I'm going out
on my training runs.
I just have to look at mytraining log.
I write my my training Outmonths at a time and then I'll
(28:04):
go back and tweak it.
If I, if I'm having a weekwhere I'm like I'm just tired, I
don't feel well, I'm notenjoying the run, I look at that
week and I tweak the mileage onthat week and then I tweak my
plan moving forward and I reallytry to say, cognizant of how
much sleep I'm getting and justhow I feel mentally, really yeah
(28:26):
.
Jay Tiegs (28:26):
so having flexibility in your plan and
being able to adjust it andscale it, because some people
are like I got to stick to theplan.
The plan is the plan andthere's no flexibility in it.
Now you got to be able to toadjust it accordingly.
Yeah, so, and that's hard to do, it's hard to scale it back, it
really is.
Yeah, but that's the discipline, that's the next level.
Thinking of like I know if Isee a problem.
Next level, thinking of like Iknow, if I scale it back, I'm
(28:49):
gonna be able to recover, bounceback from this and I'll be
stronger yeah, so that'sincredibly important and to your
point.
You just got listen to yourbody.
You got to be really in tunewith you know, look out for
those signs that we talked aboutthe fatigue, the headaches, the
, the difference in your libido,the all of those things, your
overall prevailing mood ifyou're having some
gastrointestinal issues.
(29:10):
Keeping a training log is reallyimportant, so you can, and
there's some athletes that didthis really well, like Mark
Allen, who is a Multiple Ironmanwinner, was notorious for his
meticulous note taking he wouldhave, he would bounce off his
workouts from the previous years, even like he had years of the
(29:31):
same workouts, and he couldadjust and tell Exactly where he
was at from this chart here thefatigue zones, and when he
would peak.
Now, for most of us, we're not aleaf level athletes, but just
keeping a simple log of your youknow distances and paces, and
that's what I love about the appthat I use when I train my my
athletes is like we have thatlog, we have all the data.
(29:52):
I got the heart rate data,we've got the miles and broken
down by split, so that stuff isthere to go back and review.
And a lot of times We'll do youknow, we'll do the yes, so 800s
and I bring those about.
It's like you can bounce backoff your previous effort and
like are you Fatigued?
Are you, are you actuallyimproving your fitness?
And so those training logs areincredibly important and they
don't have to be incrediblydetailed, but you know that's
(30:13):
the most you're good.
Make sure that you look atrecovery like be at peace with
your rest days and embrace themand look forward to them and not
think that You're not, thatthat would be my biggest People.
Drop the guilt.
Drop the guilt on your days, yesrealize that is a part of
there's a fundamental part ofyour training.
(30:35):
Drop the guilt on your restdays.
Acknowledge when you'reoverdoing it.
Making sure that you're eatingenough calories and nutrients,
getting enough of the rightcalories.
I think you're doing yourself adisservice.
If you Train hard, then you justlike whatever I can eat,
whatever the hell I want.
So you just Eat burgers andfries and beers and I do this
sometimes.
So I'm guilty of this.
(30:55):
But I'm also acknowledging thatI need to get some vitamins in
me and I probably need to.
But there was a time where Ithought I could eat whatever the
hell I wanted to and what I wasdoing is putting in a bunch of
junk in me and I'm depleting mybody.
I think that's worse for you.
Yeah, you were to just notexercise, maybe eat the crap
because You're you're,especially when you're doing
like endurance sports, becauseit's like I'm pushing myself so
(31:16):
hard and I'm just feeling withcrap.
Yeah, I think that can hurt.
You drink lots of water,properly dehydrated, and yeah,
those are.
Yeah, there's some some tips,anything that we miss there.
Angi Betran (31:31):
No, I think we hit the.
We hit it on the head.
We got to, we touched on allthe major points, all the things
that sometimes we tend tooverlook and that are easy to
overlook.
Yeah, because we've all done it.
Jay Tiegs (31:42):
We've all been there and I saw something the other
day.
Someone said this like don'tjust work out, train, train.
Like don't just work out, andthen what I what that makes me
think about is having a plan,being deliberate about you know
what you're doing.
Every workout should have aspecific purpose.
If you're doing the workout andyou don't know why you're doing
it, that's an indicator thatmaybe we don't have, we're not
(32:04):
training properly.
And what would it take to get aproperly, a proper plan, and
you can.
You know you can download afree cookie cutter plan.
You can.
You can go hire a coach.
You can get a, you know, aphysical train.
There's a lot of differentmodalities based on what you're
looking for, but whatever thatis for, you have have a plan and
(32:25):
, you know, seek some feedbackand educate yourself, because
you can actually train smarter,not harder, and you'll improve
your performance, you'll feelbetter in general and you'll
you'll get that nextbreakthrough.
Yeah, so that's, I guess that'sthat's my final thoughts on
that.
I didn't realize it was already632.
Are you doing okay, on time yougot to.
Angi Betran (32:43):
I got to go.
Jay Tiegs (32:44):
Okay, All right, you got to go go.
Do you want me to you?
Angi Betran (32:47):
want to bounce off .
Well, no, let's, let's let's,let's finish.
Jay Tiegs (32:49):
We finished Winner.
Yes, all right, let's do thisAll right.
This weekend there was an epicbattle in Queenie Park.
It was a backyard ultras, whichis a.
Basically what they do is theyhave these around the country,
but it was like for thisparticular one, it was 4.1 miles
.
In Queenie Park, just outsideSt Louis had some friends that
were out there running thisweekend and I was watching,
(33:12):
cheering them on.
I watched this battle unfold.
I don't know these gentlemen,but it was so incredibly awesome
to see them just getting afterit.
So basically every hour on thehour, you run 4.1 miles.
If you get back to your tent,you know, basically they start
the, they start the horn everyhour on the hour until it's the
(33:32):
last person standing.
I think they had about ahundred people start and really
they go until there's one personstanding and Dave I hope I'm
saying your name rightKauaitawski.
Kauaitawski ran 251 miles in 59hours and 50 minutes and Cody
(33:54):
Eubanks was his assist ran at247 miles in 58.
So these guys are babbling itout.
Cody, for whatever reason youknow, he, he, he did, he didn't
make it to that last one andthen Dave finished in that.
That's the line.
That's how they run thesebackyard ultras there's only one
person standing.
(34:15):
Awesome, queenie Ultra Look atthat plackered there.
So both of these guys, we'regoing to send them both a shirt,
because it was pretty 251 mileswith having those stops.
They started on Friday morningso they ran all through the
weekend nonstop and I can'timagine how incredibly difficult
that is.
You want to talk about mindsetand grit and determination,
(34:38):
incredible efforts.
So we want to acknowledge bothDave and Cody for doing hard
things and appreciate you guys,appreciate that effort pretty
inspirational, so it inspires meto want to go do one.
Angi Betran (34:48):
So oh yeah, and I'm going to be on the bucket
list like 100 million percent.
Jay Tiegs (34:53):
Absolutely so.
Appreciate y'all and thank youfor showing us what doing hard
things is all about.
So that's it.
That's all I got you guys havea fantastic Monday.
Yes, angie.
Angi Betran (35:04):
Go forth and make somebody smile.
Today it's Monday.
Make somebody smile, man, let'sdo it.
I'm making myself smile and I'mlike I'm.
I'm not even halfway here, butI'm here and I'm smiling and I'm
going to make somebody smile,whether it's uncomfortable or
not, Whether they like it or not, they're going to smile.
That's my goal today to makegive somebody a really
uncomfortable smile or they justkind of look at you like oh.
Jay Tiegs (35:28):
I like the uncomfortable ones.
That's always the more fun ones.
Angi Betran (35:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm doing today.
Jay Tiegs (35:33):
Awesome, all right, all right.
Well, yeah, have a fantasticday.
I was going to shut this thingdown, but I don't.
I lost my, I lost the thinghere.
Oh, there, we are All right.
All right, y'all, have a greatMonday.
See you guys, do hard things.
Angi Betran (35:44):
See ya.
Jay Tiegs (35:45):
Bye.
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