October 3, 2019 • 26 mins
Stuart Lambert, founding partner at Blurred meets Josh Luber, Co-Founder of StockX, the world's first “stock market of things”. StockX is an online marketplace, initially focused on sneakers, which connects buyers and sellers using the same method as the world's stock markets. Launched in 2016, StockX is now a unicorn, valued at more than $1 billion, providing a disruptive model for the future of retail, being labelled by Quartz a "stock market for physical things that could change how capitalism works."
Josh's TED talk has been watched more than 2 million times.
He is a self-confessed data geek, an entrepreneur who has created a billion dollar company, and someone who is passionate about reinventing the way we shop and invest.
This episode was recorded earlier in 2019.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stuart Lambert (00:06):
Welcome.
This is a first edition of ourpodcast.
I'm here with Josh Luber,founder and CEO of Stock X, the
world's first stock market forthings.
Josh, can you explain stock X ina sentence or two?
Josh Luber (00:21):
Stock X is, we call it a stock market of things.
Which in and of itself, thatphrase means absolutely nothing
to anybody.
It's actually more confusingthan it is anything else.
But here's the thing, we are aconsumer goods marketplace.
So think eBay, right?
All we do is bring togetherbuyers and sellers to buyers,
(00:44):
sell a consumer good.
And we start with sneakers andwe also sell watches and
handbags and streetwear.
But the manner by how we bringtogether buyers and sellers is
the exact same way that theworld stock markets work.
And there's a lot of nuance tothat.
And there's a lot of data andthere's a lot of underneath the
hood, and we can talk about allof it, but at its core, it's
(01:06):
about the concept.
True market price, right?
You go buy a share of Nike stockon the New York stock exchange.
You feel confident that theprice for that is fair because
you know, that's product of tensof thousands of people all
negotiating at the same place atthe same time to surface that
market price for Nike stock.
And that's what we're doing forconsumer goods.
We're creating concepts of truemarket price.
(01:28):
And then after that it'sliterally about just buying and
selling sneakers, right?
But all everything else underthe hood, that's all different.
And that's all genuinely, forlack of a less cliche way of
saying it, truly, trulyrevolutionary that you get does
not exist anywhere except theactual stock market.
And so that's what we're tryingto do.
Stuart Lambert (01:45):
I get that.
So I saw one headline aboutStockX that called it a stock
market for physical things that,and this was the interesting
bit,"could change how capitalismworks".
To me that is, like you say,revolutionary and I wanted to
start with that idea ofdisruption.
We live in a world where thelines are blurring between
(02:06):
industries.
So a fundamental question is, isStockX a retail company?
A technology company, a stockmarket or portfolio investment
vehicle, I guess it's probablyall of those things.
And that's where you spotted anopportunity.
Josh Luber (02:18):
Yeah.
It certainly is all thosethings.
Fundamentally we're a technologycompany.
We're not an advertisingbusiness or a marketing company.
The core business is that of amarketplace.
For people to buy and sellconsumer goods.
And immediately when we saystock market in any context,
immediately people think aboutinvestments.
(02:41):
And there's some of that andwe'll sort of come back to that.
But for now just like forgetabout that, just just recognize
that all the stock market reallydoes is it brings together
someone who wants to sell ashare of stock with someone who
wants to buy a share of stock.
It just so happens that theasset that they're buying and
selling happens to be somethingthat we use for investments.
(03:02):
What we want to do is focus onthe method of connecting buyers
and sellers.
And that's the stock market.
Now we get to the bigger ideaand you can build on top of that
and we're now sort of fastforwarding to the end where
people can literally buy andsell sneakers without ever
taking possession of them.
The same way that you might buyyourself oil futures.
You're literally buying thatasset.
(03:22):
If you were buying and sellingoil futures, those barrels of
oil really do sit at a warehousesomewhere.
Right now you're not, you don'tneed to have possession of them,
right?
No one sends them to you andthen you send them to someone
else.
You're trading digital ownershipof that back and forth.
And that's literally where this.
And so it's a very complimentaryheadline there to say that
(03:44):
StockX is changing the face of,of capitalism, but it's
certainly changing the face ofboth e-commerce and an
ultimately invest in,
Stuart Lambert (03:52):
Well that's what I wanted to ask next.
So this is a radically newparadigm for portfolio
investing, almost.
Cause I could buy shares in Niketoday, but if Nike goes bankrupt
, my Jordans are still valuable,even if my Nike shares are now
worthless.
And that sounds to me like ahugely disruptive concept
Josh Luber (04:13):
That actually that, that's great.
I've actually never used that.
I'm gonna use that.
I'm totally using that one.
We make it as easy to buy a pairof Nikes as it is to buy a share
of Nike.
So sneakers are inherently, as acommodity, as an asset, less
volatile than most traditionalcommodities that we think of.
(04:37):
Right?
But it's not about investing perse, right?
We actually have a function onStockX, which is called
portfolios.
And you could look at yoursneaker collection the same way
that you would look at a stockportfolio and see value tracking
over time.
But the reality of interactingwith sneakers is such that
(05:00):
there's not a whole lot ofvolatility within same markets.
Because there's still a lot ofdifferent channels that you can
buy yourself.
Sneakers, most of the money tobe made in the secondary market
for sneakers is someone who buysit at retail, who's fortunate
enough to be able to buy a pairof shoes at retail, let's say a
pair of Adidas right?
(05:20):
And then can turn around andimmediately sell them on the
secondary market for profit.
That's where most of thearbitrage is, right?
If you're buying it on StockX,you're probably not also selling
it on StockX, at least not inthe short term.
There's not enough short termvolatility, but maybe over time
you hold it for a couple ofyears then maybe
Stuart Lambert (05:38):
What's the response been from brands
themselves?
Cause they can surely see thatthe old rules about how they
retail their products arebreaking down here, right?
Josh Luber (05:48):
This is, this is awesome because it ties in with
the bigger idea.
Before StockX, I had a companythat was called Campless, and
Campless was a sneaker guide,right?
We were scraping eBay and wewere creating a data company.
We had a price guide of whatsneakers were actually worth.
We had a blog that was kind oflike Freakonomics for sneakers,
doing this sort of analyticsaround the secondary market that
(06:10):
no one had really been doing.
And so at the time and, and westarted getting some traction
around 2013 however, I got intouch with anyone at the sneaker
brands and at the time reallyNike was the entire secondary
market at the time.
Nike including Jordan brand,which Nike owns made of about
96% of the secondary market.
So it was all Nike.
This is before Yeezy, beforeAdidas started to really get
(06:31):
into this part of the business.
So before I got in touch withanyone at Nike, the first
conversation was,"Ooh, this isreally cool data.
We should totally try to find away to work together".
And in the second conversationwas,"Oh, you know what, this is
the resell market.
Like maybe I better talk to myboss." And the third
conversation was total silence.
No returning emails, noreturning phone calls, just
like, and it's fine.
(06:52):
I totally understand.
This is 33 years dating back to1985 and the first Air Jordans
of Nike having a very wilfulblindness policy towards the
secondary market.
Everything they do creates it.
Everything they know how to verystrategically benefit from the
creation of the secondarymarket.
But any public PR questions inNike about the secondary markers
(07:13):
?
No, no, no, no.
That's not us.
We're not a part of that.
We're not, don't have nothing todo with that.
And there's a lot of goodreasons why anytime you've ever
heard anything around violenceand sneakers and riots are
people killing each other forsneakers.
1991 Sports Illustrated cover: "Your sneakers are your life". (07:23):
undefined
A pair of Jordan fives and a gun- all a function of this.
But slowly, 33 years, you'veslowly gotten the point where
the secondary market has becomelegitimized.
Brands have done a lot to makeit safer for people to buy it.
And you know, and then you havecompanies like StockX that come
(07:44):
in and authenticate thesneakers, right?
Create a standardized e-commerceexperience, have a real business
model behind it.
It's no longer just a back alleytype of industry.
And each one of the these timesthat we've slowly started to
legitimize the market to brandhave slowly, slowly coming
around to work with us, which isa really long way of answering
that they're still not there.
(08:06):
And, look, brands are collectionof people.
There are some people at the bigbrands that are still super,
super old school and still are,no, no, no, we shouldn't even be
talking to you.
And then there's people at thefar other end of that gamut that
are like, absolutely, we need tobe working together.
We need to be doing stufftogether.
And then there's everyone inbetween.
Right?
And so for us, literally thepurpose of StockX from day one
(08:27):
was to bring the primary andsecondary markets together.
What a stock market is.
The stock market is the singlemarket that blurs the line
between what is primary and whatis secondary.
The concept of true market pricebelies retail price or MSRP.
Right?
And IPO happens a Facebook stockin the New York stock exchange
and then that same marketcontinues to trade it.
Stuart Lambert (08:49):
So talk about, yea, cause you're talking, you
talk a lot about letting brands-so the companies we're talking
about, Nike, Adidas- literallyIPO products.
IPO a pair of new sneakers.
Can you talk about that, causethat sounds again like an
incredible blurring of the linesbetween concepts.
Josh Luber (09:05):
Well that's right.
And that's, that's literally theperfect segue there.
Cause that's exactly whathappens, right?
For us today we're a bettersecondary market.
But as we can work with brandsand become an alternate retail
channel.
And the way we do that is byliterally IPOing products.
(09:25):
The best example of in aconsumer good context of primary
and secondary markets workingtogether is ticketing and sports
ticketing.
So if you think 10, 15 yearsago, teams and leagues were
trying to shut down ticketingwebsites and music class.
All that.
And today, StubHub is theofficial resell marketplace of
(09:46):
major league baseball.
But not only that, Stubhub hasprimary ticket deals with the
Sixers and the Yankees and a fewother teams.
Right?
So this is the IPO, right?
They don't call it an IPO, butit they are releasing the retail
product.
StubHub is selling the retailproduct and that way if you want
to resell any, you're already onStubHub.
Right?
(10:06):
It's a single market that bringstogether primary and secondary.
And so for us, the bigger ideasto do these IPOs and we've done
some of them.
So in January of last year,Nike, you rereleased LeBron
James first shoe.
This was LeBron James, firstretro.
And I know that, that it'sfunny, like there's like
probably no place in the worldthat cares less about LeBron
(10:26):
James and like right here, butthat's okay.
We know who he is and it was areally big deal in the sneaker
world.
The fact that this shoe wascoming back and Nike sold it on
StockX first before any otherretail channel.
This is before nike.com beforeFootlocker and we created a
sneaker box that was made out ofwood from the Cavaliers
championship court.
The Cavs cut up the court and wecreated a sneaker box and then
(10:47):
included with the box an actualCavs championship ring in the
box.
But this is the real ring thatlike if you worked in like
marketing for the Cavs and so wehad this package and it was the
shoes, the box, the ring.
There were 46 of these, but itwas a true IPO and they sold for
an average of$6,000 a piece.
We gave half the money tocharity, but this was on the
homepage of the New York timesand the results of the homepage.
(11:10):
New York times was not theringer of the box, but it was a
really big deal about Nike goingdirect to the secondary market.
Stuart Lambert (11:18):
OK so that is radical disruption and I guess
you know, it doesn't come out ofnowhere.
It's responding to consumers'demand for new ways of doing
things.
And that is a neat segue intowhat I wanted to kind of dig
into a bit next, which is reallythe theme of entrepreneurial-ism
and you as, you know, founder ofa rapidly scaling business.
(11:39):
Can you talk a bit aboutentrepreneurial-ism as a concept
of them?
And I'm interested not just inhow you made that bold step into
starting a disruptive business.
You know, the kind of thejeopardy of that, but also
thinking of the context we're intoday where, economies in the
US, the UK, are changing so, sofast that there is going to be a
(12:00):
real need for more people tohave their own ideas, to launch
their own businesses, to bringnew stuff to the, to the table.
Right?
Josh Luber (12:07):
Our premise, or I guess my sort of sort of
personal philosophy for thelongest time has been that ideas
are worthless, right?
It's really about, execution.
I've started to run three otherstartups before this.
None of them had anything to dowith sneakers, almost
intentionally.
So, I mean, I've collectedsneakers all my life, so I
(12:28):
almost like intentionallyseparated business and pleasure.
But I don't think that it's anaccident that the one that has
been most successful is when Ifinally did.
And you get to that because youhave to love the process.
It's all about like the processand like that's like this is
just a blast because you get todo this, like StockX may very
(12:51):
well be the greatest chance thatI have in my life to become
wealthy.
And that's okay.
And it's okay to say that, butlike the fun part is now it's
doing it and building it andstuff like that.
And you know, the best partabout being involved in a hyper
growth startup is that we have530 people today and it's like a
(13:11):
Daisy Rowe startup.
I mean, it literally feels likewhen there were like five of us
sitting outside of Dan's officeand just, you know, the world
was an oyster and there was aninfinite number of things to do.
But that's also why they areonly bottleneck today in every
part of the business is people.
Stuart Lambert (13:27):
We'll come onto people.
Still with the entrepreneurs,I've got an almost pathological
fascination with anotherAmerican entrepreneur, Elon
Musk.
That's a guy who literally livesTesla, right?
So he sleeps in the office.
He works, I don't know, 60 hourdays or something, somehow! Do
you empathize with thatobsession, that mentality?
Do you have to be a bit crazy todo what you're doing?
Josh Luber (13:49):
Did they tell you that I sleep in the office?
I have a couch next to my desk.
I take a nap every day.
Cause what happens is slowly youstay, if you love the process,
you stay up five minutes later,every night and then all of a
sudden you're going to bed at4:30 in the morning.
(14:12):
I'm married and I have two kids,my daughter's six and my son is
three.
So I try to get when I am intown and that's the hard part is
I travel a lot.
But when I am in town I try toget home and put them to bed and
then I wake up and then it'slike the second part of my day.
So from like 10:00 PM to 2:00 AMlike that is the best time of
day to work because there's noemails, no phone calls, wife and
kids are asleep.
You can actually like work andthen, then you get into the five
(14:34):
minutes later, five minuteslater and all of a sudden, like
last night particularly causetime-zones- h ere last night I
went to bed at 4:30 and so thenI have a power nap during the
day at the office.
And you just find ways to like steal s leep in between and doing
it because like it's the likethe process, it's t he best and
like the opportunity to do thissort of stuff is amazing.
There is an obsession t hat wejoke and my, so I've two
(14:56):
cofounders, one is Dan Gilbertwho's the owner of the Cleveland
Cavaliers and the, t here's aguy named Greg Schwartz who's
our COO and third go founder andGreg and I basically go a round
the company and, you know, wejoke and this is not at all a
negative, cause I love my wifeand kids but once it gets to the
weekend and I am like, crap, Ican't wait to get back to work
(15:16):
on Monday.
There's so much to like diddo...
Stuart Lambert (15:22):
That kind of mentality, that mindset.
I mean that's surely fundamentalto the culture at StockX and I
wonder, we'll talk a little bitabout culture.
How do you go about creating asense of culture at a start up
business?
How do you foster it?
Josh Luber (15:37):
Yeah, I mean we have 530 people and I would easily
hire another a thousand tomorrowif we could find the right
people.
There's a lot of roles that arestill open that I'm desperate to
have someone in there, but I'dstill rather have no one than
the wrong people.
And that's, that's a really keypart of it.
(16:00):
I think it was somewhere aroundemployee number 50 or 60, that I
stopped interviewing everysingle person before they were
hired, which was, I still kindof feel guilty about that.
And it was in engineering right.
Eventually turn it over to theCTO and trust that they can can
(16:20):
carry the culture into anengineering culture because each
team then is really different.
You know, an engineering cultureis way different than say, like
the marketing team, you know,which is way different than we
have an operations andauthentication team that's
essentially like a warehouse orit is a warehouse was for
warehouses.
So you have different culturesin it.
And so what's important is thatthe leaders that you have in
place get the, the largerculture and can adapt it to
(16:43):
their parts of it and still havethat same, you know, feel.
Stuart Lambert (16:46):
So it's a fluid.
It's a fluid thing.
Josh Luber (16:50):
But it starts with like being vigilant in hiring of
who you're going to hire, and,and particularly of those
leaders, which, which we havebeen and Greg and I have been,
it's also about getting rid ofanyone that...
You make mistakes.
And there's been three, in twoand a half years, at the mid to
(17:12):
senior level leadership thatwere clear mistakes, from a
culture standpoint.
The people were very smart andvery talented but just were not
our culture.
And you could feel that divide.
And it was one of those thingsthat when we finally did let
those people go, it was additionby subtraction.
And like, that's how you know,like inherently you can feel it,
(17:34):
even though all of a sudden youhave one less very qualified,
very capable person in abusiness that desperately needs
people.
Stuart Lambert (17:41):
You're hinting at that kind of hierarchy of
priorities there.
What's most important that thequalifications experience or is
it or is it genuinely thevalues?
Josh Luber (17:49):
Who do you want in the trenches with you?
And for us, it's, it's not aboutlike nine to five.
What happens when Kanye callsand says we're going to release
a Yeezy on StockX, you know,tomorrow and everyone's at the
office for the next 36 hoursstraight, getting it done.
Who do you want there at threein the morning with you and look
over and do that?
Right?
Who do you want to celebratewith?
(18:11):
That's as important as anything.
Stuart Lambert (18:17):
I guess the big challenge will be, as you say,
scaling.
You say you'd hire anotherthousand people if you could,
but it gets harder to findpeople that,
Josh Luber (18:25):
yeah.
Yeah.
And to, to your point and whatyou're looking at here, like I
talk about internally all thetime.
Like I want to hire founders, Iwanna hire like other startup
founders.
In fact I've been starting tolook and and within my network
and startup network at differentplaces because I ended up, all I
was looking for in between everystartup was man I would love to
(18:48):
go work for like a successfulentrepreneur in a fat, in a high
growth successful startup andlike work with like the the
founding team and like thatdoesn't exist.
Like everybody wants that butHoly crap.
Like I am like literally liketrying to find that and I have
this like unbelievably perfectjob for any like, like amazing
founder.
(19:08):
But it's hard to find thosepeople at the right time cause
you have to find them in betweenstartups.
So like I've been asking all myVC friends and our VC investors
was like, do you have any greatfounders within your network
that are like in betweenstartups or stuff like that.
And I'm like, I just want morestartup people.
How would you spot, cause Iassume
Speaker 2 (19:24):
you know, someone who's obviously got an
entrepreneurial spiritthemselves, you encourage that
within the culture of stock X.
How, how'd you, um, how'd youspot a new Josh Luber among your
own workforce?
Josh Luber (19:37):
Um, I think the hardest thing is it's to try to
get those people to, tounderstand it themselves.
I think that, you know, there'ssome young people at the company
that I think are reallyphenomenal, but, um, everybody
is so, and this isn't a badthing, but like they're, they're
so focused on like sort of smart, like young smart people today
(20:00):
are so focused on like smart,longterm planning of their
careers, of their future upsetor thinking about things like,
well, if I take this job, thenwhere can it lead to?
And all that, you know?
And I'm just like, just, justlike in the war, like in the
best way possible.
Like just shut up and like bustyour ass.
I'm like the bet that the bestthings that happened there, like
if you're worried about likeyour title, if you're worried
(20:21):
about all this stuff.
And I get why, like I girl, it'snot like I'm not like immune to
it, but like there's nothingthat that comes up better than
like the people that just likeput their head down and like
actually, you know, go in and dowork.
And you can tell the differencethough.
Uh, like once someone's thereand working, right, it's the
people that, you know, this whenyou, when you need something
done or where you want to dosomething, it's people that
like, if I've asked this person,am I going to like, feel like
(20:44):
I'm like bothering them orguilty or they like somehow make
as to the people that are like,yeah, I know I can count on that
person.
You know, and you can't, um, youcan't always spot that right
away in an interview.
That's hard.
But the best experience thatI've found is when you have
someone that has been worked ina startup or a small business,
do you want to do that?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
So you're not, I'm not a San Fran business.
You're a Detroit business.
And in this country we associateDetroit with you know, cars and
that kind of heavy industry.
What, uh, what has Detroitimprinted on stock X is DNA.
Josh Luber (21:15):
So my business partners, Dan Gilbert, um, you
know, the business he's mostknown for is as being the owner
of the Cleveland Cavaliers, buthis primary business were where
he made his money initially isin Quicken loans.
And Quicken is the largestmortgage lender in the United
States.
And Dan grew up in Detroit.
And what happened was about six,seven years ago, Detroit was at
the lowest point.
(21:36):
It was in bankruptcy.
The city was deserted and Danovernight moved in like mu moved
every one of his businesses indowntown Detroit, started buying
a buildings for pennies on adollar and basically
single-handedly rebuilt thecity.
And so for us, you know, wedon't work on Detroit stuff per
se, but that's Dan's mission inlife, right?
(21:56):
Like he's made his money and hestill runs 130 companies and
he's actually extraordinary.
But his mission and the missionof the larger mission of the
whole family of companies isaround the rebuilding of the
city of Detroit.
And so for us to sit there andbe a part of that even, you
know, just because we exist inDetroit and our headquarters is
there is, um, as extraordinary abig agenda going on part of your
(22:20):
journey and what's mostimportant and what ties in with,
with actually your, um, yourinterest here is Detroit is a
startup city.
And if you're a startup person,like, and now you get to live
and be part of a startup city,it's extraordinary.
And I don't know if there'sanother city in the world that
is like that where you have youbasically rebuilding of a major
(22:41):
city from scratch.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I'm reminded of another brilliant entrepreneur,
Jeff[inaudible] who said, um,failure isn't optional.
It's not optional.
If you want to be inventive,right?
You, you're gonna, you're gonnamake mistakes.
How do you deal with failure?
Josh Luber (22:54):
You know, it's funny, I never have any like
failure quotes that I use often,but that's a really good one.
And then, yeah, I mean, failureis, is, um, it's not only part
of the process, it's like a hugepart of the process.
I, I don't have any decisions Ihave to make a day, you know, a
day or whatever, but like, man,if I can just get a couple of
them right.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think through, there's a few just kind of
personal questions here.
Um, your three top bits ofbusiness advice.
Josh Luber (23:21):
So, uh, I get asked this in, in some form a lot.
And uh, it's funny because, um,that there's two that are, that
dominate and it is, um, theysound like the most generic
basic things, but they couldn'tbe more important.
So one is just do something,right, which is that so many
people sit around and just, youknow, like, ah, I wish I could
(23:42):
do this or I wish I could like,just do something.
Even it's the most smallest, mymost, my new thing that you
don't necessarily where knowwhere it's gonna happen or what
it's going to do.
Like you have to be moving,doing something, move forward.
And if you're passionate aboutthe process, right, that's, it
should be an easy thing.
Take a step.
Yeah.
Like literally, you know, peopleask me all the time like, Oh,
you know, how did you ever builda$1 billion company?
(24:05):
I was like, I didn't like Ibuilt whatever.
The next thing was.
Like it's one foot in front ofthe other.
Right.
And um, and then the other thingis, is talk to everybody.
Talk to everybody and anybodyabout everything.
Don't ever think someone's gonnalike steal your idea.
Don't ever show up with like anNDA to talk to someone.
Like, first of all, if you havesome great idea, I already said
(24:25):
earlier, I think ideas areworthless and executions the
only thing that matters.
But like if you have think youhave some great idea and you're
going to go talk to someone andthey're that talented and great,
they could steal your idea andgo do it, but they're not doing
anything.
They're just sitting around andhave all this time in the world,
they can go.
No one's going to be able to beas passionate and dedicate all,
it's about execution.
So you should talk to everybodyabout everything because all
(24:48):
you're going to do is get morefeedback and iteration and
people would help with and findpeople and introductions and all
that.
And a lot of people like don'tdo that if you're like, Oh I
need to keep this private.
Those are the things and it'slike simple, right?
Like just do something and talkto everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah.
Talk to them on that.
I mean it's kind of counter tothat cause I think when you have
a great idea, your naturalinstinct is right.
Josh Luber (25:05):
Protect it, protect it.
Everybody has other people aregoing to have some version of
that idea.
Right?
By the way, stock X, we didn'tmake this up like the stock
market has been the mostefficient form of commerce for
hundreds of years.
And all we did was pointed fromthese commodity stocks and bonds
and oil and gas to these, tosneakers and watches and
handbags, right?
No.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
All, I've got a last question for you.
This is a bit of a funny one.
We've got a, we have this athing here on a, on the good old
BBC called desert Island discswhere guests get to say which
songs they take with them, uh,on a desert Island and I wanna I
wanted to do something similarbut updated and cause I'm a
total Saifai geek and I'm soexcited about the idea of one
day human beings on Mars or themoon.
(25:47):
I had this idea of, okay, I'mgoing to call it a moon base bag
or something.
You got one bag, right?
It's a Louis Vuitton bought onstock X, obviously a, what are
you packing it?
You got a one way ticket, you'regoing to go and live on the moon
or Mars.
You're not coming back.
What do you take with you?
Josh Luber (26:03):
I mean, like the amount of just work that I can
do on my phone.
Yeah.
Like forget about the, it waslike whatever, social and all
that, but like I can run entirebusiness like on my phone and
all this, and it's likeunbelievable to do that because
how can I start like the nextcompany or do their whatever
that tool is at that time.
However that is.
Like today, it's a phone, butit's something they'd be able
(26:24):
to, to do that.
That's gonna be the past time oflike creating new civilization.
You're going to create some sortof business on.
Yeah.
It's an extension of ourselves.
Really good to meet you.
That's great.
Great to talk to you.
Thanks for having me.
This is awesome.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Jeez.
Welcome.
This is a first edition of ourpodcast.
I'm here with Josh Luber,founder and CEO of Stock X, the
world's first stock market forthings.
Josh, can you explain stock X ina sentence or two?
Josh Luber (00:21):
Stock X is, we call it a stock market of things.
Which in and of itself, thatphrase means absolutely nothing
to anybody.
It's actually more confusingthan it is anything else.
But here's the thing, we are aconsumer goods marketplace.
So think eBay, right?
All we do is bring togetherbuyers and sellers to buyers,
(00:44):
sell a consumer good.
And we start with sneakers andwe also sell watches and
handbags and streetwear.
But the manner by how we bringtogether buyers and sellers is
the exact same way that theworld stock markets work.
And there's a lot of nuance tothat.
And there's a lot of data andthere's a lot of underneath the
hood, and we can talk about allof it, but at its core, it's
(01:06):
about the concept.
True market price, right?
You go buy a share of Nike stockon the New York stock exchange.
You feel confident that theprice for that is fair because
you know, that's product of tensof thousands of people all
negotiating at the same place atthe same time to surface that
market price for Nike stock.
And that's what we're doing forconsumer goods.
We're creating concepts of truemarket price.
(01:28):
And then after that it'sliterally about just buying and
selling sneakers, right?
But all everything else underthe hood, that's all different.
And that's all genuinely, forlack of a less cliche way of
saying it, truly, trulyrevolutionary that you get does
not exist anywhere except theactual stock market.
And so that's what we're tryingto do.
Stuart Lambert (01:45):
I get that.
So I saw one headline aboutStockX that called it a stock
market for physical things that,and this was the interesting
bit,"could change how capitalismworks".
To me that is, like you say,revolutionary and I wanted to
start with that idea ofdisruption.
We live in a world where thelines are blurring between
(02:06):
industries.
So a fundamental question is, isStockX a retail company?
A technology company, a stockmarket or portfolio investment
vehicle, I guess it's probablyall of those things.
And that's where you spotted anopportunity.
Josh Luber (02:18):
Yeah.
It certainly is all thosethings.
Fundamentally we're a technologycompany.
We're not an advertisingbusiness or a marketing company.
The core business is that of amarketplace.
For people to buy and sellconsumer goods.
And immediately when we saystock market in any context,
immediately people think aboutinvestments.
(02:41):
And there's some of that andwe'll sort of come back to that.
But for now just like forgetabout that, just just recognize
that all the stock market reallydoes is it brings together
someone who wants to sell ashare of stock with someone who
wants to buy a share of stock.
It just so happens that theasset that they're buying and
selling happens to be somethingthat we use for investments.
(03:02):
What we want to do is focus onthe method of connecting buyers
and sellers.
And that's the stock market.
Now we get to the bigger ideaand you can build on top of that
and we're now sort of fastforwarding to the end where
people can literally buy andsell sneakers without ever
taking possession of them.
The same way that you might buyyourself oil futures.
You're literally buying thatasset.
(03:22):
If you were buying and sellingoil futures, those barrels of
oil really do sit at a warehousesomewhere.
Right now you're not, you don'tneed to have possession of them,
right?
No one sends them to you andthen you send them to someone
else.
You're trading digital ownershipof that back and forth.
And that's literally where this.
And so it's a very complimentaryheadline there to say that
(03:44):
StockX is changing the face of,of capitalism, but it's
certainly changing the face ofboth e-commerce and an
ultimately invest in,
Stuart Lambert (03:52):
Well that's what I wanted to ask next.
So this is a radically newparadigm for portfolio
investing, almost.
Cause I could buy shares in Niketoday, but if Nike goes bankrupt
, my Jordans are still valuable,even if my Nike shares are now
worthless.
And that sounds to me like ahugely disruptive concept
Josh Luber (04:13):
That actually that, that's great.
I've actually never used that.
I'm gonna use that.
I'm totally using that one.
We make it as easy to buy a pairof Nikes as it is to buy a share
of Nike.
So sneakers are inherently, as acommodity, as an asset, less
volatile than most traditionalcommodities that we think of.
(04:37):
Right?
But it's not about investing perse, right?
We actually have a function onStockX, which is called
portfolios.
And you could look at yoursneaker collection the same way
that you would look at a stockportfolio and see value tracking
over time.
But the reality of interactingwith sneakers is such that
(05:00):
there's not a whole lot ofvolatility within same markets.
Because there's still a lot ofdifferent channels that you can
buy yourself.
Sneakers, most of the money tobe made in the secondary market
for sneakers is someone who buysit at retail, who's fortunate
enough to be able to buy a pairof shoes at retail, let's say a
pair of Adidas right?
(05:20):
And then can turn around andimmediately sell them on the
secondary market for profit.
That's where most of thearbitrage is, right?
If you're buying it on StockX,you're probably not also selling
it on StockX, at least not inthe short term.
There's not enough short termvolatility, but maybe over time
you hold it for a couple ofyears then maybe
Stuart Lambert (05:38):
What's the response been from brands
themselves?
Cause they can surely see thatthe old rules about how they
retail their products arebreaking down here, right?
Josh Luber (05:48):
This is, this is awesome because it ties in with
the bigger idea.
Before StockX, I had a companythat was called Campless, and
Campless was a sneaker guide,right?
We were scraping eBay and wewere creating a data company.
We had a price guide of whatsneakers were actually worth.
We had a blog that was kind oflike Freakonomics for sneakers,
doing this sort of analyticsaround the secondary market that
(06:10):
no one had really been doing.
And so at the time and, and westarted getting some traction
around 2013 however, I got intouch with anyone at the sneaker
brands and at the time reallyNike was the entire secondary
market at the time.
Nike including Jordan brand,which Nike owns made of about
96% of the secondary market.
So it was all Nike.
This is before Yeezy, beforeAdidas started to really get
(06:31):
into this part of the business.
So before I got in touch withanyone at Nike, the first
conversation was,"Ooh, this isreally cool data.
We should totally try to find away to work together".
And in the second conversationwas,"Oh, you know what, this is
the resell market.
Like maybe I better talk to myboss." And the third
conversation was total silence.
No returning emails, noreturning phone calls, just
like, and it's fine.
(06:52):
I totally understand.
This is 33 years dating back to1985 and the first Air Jordans
of Nike having a very wilfulblindness policy towards the
secondary market.
Everything they do creates it.
Everything they know how to verystrategically benefit from the
creation of the secondarymarket.
But any public PR questions inNike about the secondary markers
(07:13):
?
No, no, no, no.
That's not us.
We're not a part of that.
We're not, don't have nothing todo with that.
And there's a lot of goodreasons why anytime you've ever
heard anything around violenceand sneakers and riots are
people killing each other forsneakers.
1991 Sports Illustrated cover: "Your sneakers are your life". (07:23):
undefined
A pair of Jordan fives and a gun- all a function of this.
But slowly, 33 years, you'veslowly gotten the point where
the secondary market has becomelegitimized.
Brands have done a lot to makeit safer for people to buy it.
And you know, and then you havecompanies like StockX that come
(07:44):
in and authenticate thesneakers, right?
Create a standardized e-commerceexperience, have a real business
model behind it.
It's no longer just a back alleytype of industry.
And each one of the these timesthat we've slowly started to
legitimize the market to brandhave slowly, slowly coming
around to work with us, which isa really long way of answering
that they're still not there.
(08:06):
And, look, brands are collectionof people.
There are some people at the bigbrands that are still super,
super old school and still are,no, no, no, we shouldn't even be
talking to you.
And then there's people at thefar other end of that gamut that
are like, absolutely, we need tobe working together.
We need to be doing stufftogether.
And then there's everyone inbetween.
Right?
And so for us, literally thepurpose of StockX from day one
(08:27):
was to bring the primary andsecondary markets together.
What a stock market is.
The stock market is the singlemarket that blurs the line
between what is primary and whatis secondary.
The concept of true market pricebelies retail price or MSRP.
Right?
And IPO happens a Facebook stockin the New York stock exchange
and then that same marketcontinues to trade it.
Stuart Lambert (08:49):
So talk about, yea, cause you're talking, you
talk a lot about letting brands-so the companies we're talking
about, Nike, Adidas- literallyIPO products.
IPO a pair of new sneakers.
Can you talk about that, causethat sounds again like an
incredible blurring of the linesbetween concepts.
Josh Luber (09:05):
Well that's right.
And that's, that's literally theperfect segue there.
Cause that's exactly whathappens, right?
For us today we're a bettersecondary market.
But as we can work with brandsand become an alternate retail
channel.
And the way we do that is byliterally IPOing products.
(09:25):
The best example of in aconsumer good context of primary
and secondary markets workingtogether is ticketing and sports
ticketing.
So if you think 10, 15 yearsago, teams and leagues were
trying to shut down ticketingwebsites and music class.
All that.
And today, StubHub is theofficial resell marketplace of
(09:46):
major league baseball.
But not only that, Stubhub hasprimary ticket deals with the
Sixers and the Yankees and a fewother teams.
Right?
So this is the IPO, right?
They don't call it an IPO, butit they are releasing the retail
product.
StubHub is selling the retailproduct and that way if you want
to resell any, you're already onStubHub.
Right?
(10:06):
It's a single market that bringstogether primary and secondary.
And so for us, the bigger ideasto do these IPOs and we've done
some of them.
So in January of last year,Nike, you rereleased LeBron
James first shoe.
This was LeBron James, firstretro.
And I know that, that it'sfunny, like there's like
probably no place in the worldthat cares less about LeBron
(10:26):
James and like right here, butthat's okay.
We know who he is and it was areally big deal in the sneaker
world.
The fact that this shoe wascoming back and Nike sold it on
StockX first before any otherretail channel.
This is before nike.com beforeFootlocker and we created a
sneaker box that was made out ofwood from the Cavaliers
championship court.
The Cavs cut up the court and wecreated a sneaker box and then
(10:47):
included with the box an actualCavs championship ring in the
box.
But this is the real ring thatlike if you worked in like
marketing for the Cavs and so wehad this package and it was the
shoes, the box, the ring.
There were 46 of these, but itwas a true IPO and they sold for
an average of$6,000 a piece.
We gave half the money tocharity, but this was on the
homepage of the New York timesand the results of the homepage.
(11:10):
New York times was not theringer of the box, but it was a
really big deal about Nike goingdirect to the secondary market.
Stuart Lambert (11:18):
OK so that is radical disruption and I guess
you know, it doesn't come out ofnowhere.
It's responding to consumers'demand for new ways of doing
things.
And that is a neat segue intowhat I wanted to kind of dig
into a bit next, which is reallythe theme of entrepreneurial-ism
and you as, you know, founder ofa rapidly scaling business.
(11:39):
Can you talk a bit aboutentrepreneurial-ism as a concept
of them?
And I'm interested not just inhow you made that bold step into
starting a disruptive business.
You know, the kind of thejeopardy of that, but also
thinking of the context we're intoday where, economies in the
US, the UK, are changing so, sofast that there is going to be a
(12:00):
real need for more people tohave their own ideas, to launch
their own businesses, to bringnew stuff to the, to the table.
Right?
Josh Luber (12:07):
Our premise, or I guess my sort of sort of
personal philosophy for thelongest time has been that ideas
are worthless, right?
It's really about, execution.
I've started to run three otherstartups before this.
None of them had anything to dowith sneakers, almost
intentionally.
So, I mean, I've collectedsneakers all my life, so I
(12:28):
almost like intentionallyseparated business and pleasure.
But I don't think that it's anaccident that the one that has
been most successful is when Ifinally did.
And you get to that because youhave to love the process.
It's all about like the processand like that's like this is
just a blast because you get todo this, like StockX may very
(12:51):
well be the greatest chance thatI have in my life to become
wealthy.
And that's okay.
And it's okay to say that, butlike the fun part is now it's
doing it and building it andstuff like that.
And you know, the best partabout being involved in a hyper
growth startup is that we have530 people today and it's like a
(13:11):
Daisy Rowe startup.
I mean, it literally feels likewhen there were like five of us
sitting outside of Dan's officeand just, you know, the world
was an oyster and there was aninfinite number of things to do.
But that's also why they areonly bottleneck today in every
part of the business is people.
Stuart Lambert (13:27):
We'll come onto people.
Still with the entrepreneurs,I've got an almost pathological
fascination with anotherAmerican entrepreneur, Elon
Musk.
That's a guy who literally livesTesla, right?
So he sleeps in the office.
He works, I don't know, 60 hourdays or something, somehow! Do
you empathize with thatobsession, that mentality?
Do you have to be a bit crazy todo what you're doing?
Josh Luber (13:49):
Did they tell you that I sleep in the office?
I have a couch next to my desk.
I take a nap every day.
Cause what happens is slowly youstay, if you love the process,
you stay up five minutes later,every night and then all of a
sudden you're going to bed at4:30 in the morning.
(14:12):
I'm married and I have two kids,my daughter's six and my son is
three.
So I try to get when I am intown and that's the hard part is
I travel a lot.
But when I am in town I try toget home and put them to bed and
then I wake up and then it'slike the second part of my day.
So from like 10:00 PM to 2:00 AMlike that is the best time of
day to work because there's noemails, no phone calls, wife and
kids are asleep.
You can actually like work andthen, then you get into the five
(14:34):
minutes later, five minuteslater and all of a sudden, like
last night particularly causetime-zones- h ere last night I
went to bed at 4:30 and so thenI have a power nap during the
day at the office.
And you just find ways to like steal s leep in between and doing
it because like it's the likethe process, it's t he best and
like the opportunity to do thissort of stuff is amazing.
There is an obsession t hat wejoke and my, so I've two
(14:56):
cofounders, one is Dan Gilbertwho's the owner of the Cleveland
Cavaliers and the, t here's aguy named Greg Schwartz who's
our COO and third go founder andGreg and I basically go a round
the company and, you know, wejoke and this is not at all a
negative, cause I love my wifeand kids but once it gets to the
weekend and I am like, crap, Ican't wait to get back to work
(15:16):
on Monday.
There's so much to like diddo...
Stuart Lambert (15:22):
That kind of mentality, that mindset.
I mean that's surely fundamentalto the culture at StockX and I
wonder, we'll talk a little bitabout culture.
How do you go about creating asense of culture at a start up
business?
How do you foster it?
Josh Luber (15:37):
Yeah, I mean we have 530 people and I would easily
hire another a thousand tomorrowif we could find the right
people.
There's a lot of roles that arestill open that I'm desperate to
have someone in there, but I'dstill rather have no one than
the wrong people.
And that's, that's a really keypart of it.
(16:00):
I think it was somewhere aroundemployee number 50 or 60, that I
stopped interviewing everysingle person before they were
hired, which was, I still kindof feel guilty about that.
And it was in engineering right.
Eventually turn it over to theCTO and trust that they can can
(16:20):
carry the culture into anengineering culture because each
team then is really different.
You know, an engineering cultureis way different than say, like
the marketing team, you know,which is way different than we
have an operations andauthentication team that's
essentially like a warehouse orit is a warehouse was for
warehouses.
So you have different culturesin it.
And so what's important is thatthe leaders that you have in
place get the, the largerculture and can adapt it to
(16:43):
their parts of it and still havethat same, you know, feel.
Stuart Lambert (16:46):
So it's a fluid.
It's a fluid thing.
Josh Luber (16:50):
But it starts with like being vigilant in hiring of
who you're going to hire, and,and particularly of those
leaders, which, which we havebeen and Greg and I have been,
it's also about getting rid ofanyone that...
You make mistakes.
And there's been three, in twoand a half years, at the mid to
(17:12):
senior level leadership thatwere clear mistakes, from a
culture standpoint.
The people were very smart andvery talented but just were not
our culture.
And you could feel that divide.
And it was one of those thingsthat when we finally did let
those people go, it was additionby subtraction.
And like, that's how you know,like inherently you can feel it,
(17:34):
even though all of a sudden youhave one less very qualified,
very capable person in abusiness that desperately needs
people.
Stuart Lambert (17:41):
You're hinting at that kind of hierarchy of
priorities there.
What's most important that thequalifications experience or is
it or is it genuinely thevalues?
Josh Luber (17:49):
Who do you want in the trenches with you?
And for us, it's, it's not aboutlike nine to five.
What happens when Kanye callsand says we're going to release
a Yeezy on StockX, you know,tomorrow and everyone's at the
office for the next 36 hoursstraight, getting it done.
Who do you want there at threein the morning with you and look
over and do that?
Right?
Who do you want to celebratewith?
(18:11):
That's as important as anything.
Stuart Lambert (18:17):
I guess the big challenge will be, as you say,
scaling.
You say you'd hire anotherthousand people if you could,
but it gets harder to findpeople that,
Josh Luber (18:25):
yeah.
Yeah.
And to, to your point and whatyou're looking at here, like I
talk about internally all thetime.
Like I want to hire founders, Iwanna hire like other startup
founders.
In fact I've been starting tolook and and within my network
and startup network at differentplaces because I ended up, all I
was looking for in between everystartup was man I would love to
(18:48):
go work for like a successfulentrepreneur in a fat, in a high
growth successful startup andlike work with like the the
founding team and like thatdoesn't exist.
Like everybody wants that butHoly crap.
Like I am like literally liketrying to find that and I have
this like unbelievably perfectjob for any like, like amazing
founder.
(19:08):
But it's hard to find thosepeople at the right time cause
you have to find them in betweenstartups.
So like I've been asking all myVC friends and our VC investors
was like, do you have any greatfounders within your network
that are like in betweenstartups or stuff like that.
And I'm like, I just want morestartup people.
How would you spot, cause Iassume
Speaker 2 (19:24):
you know, someone who's obviously got an
entrepreneurial spiritthemselves, you encourage that
within the culture of stock X.
How, how'd you, um, how'd youspot a new Josh Luber among your
own workforce?
Josh Luber (19:37):
Um, I think the hardest thing is it's to try to
get those people to, tounderstand it themselves.
I think that, you know, there'ssome young people at the company
that I think are reallyphenomenal, but, um, everybody
is so, and this isn't a badthing, but like they're, they're
so focused on like sort of smart, like young smart people today
(20:00):
are so focused on like smart,longterm planning of their
careers, of their future upsetor thinking about things like,
well, if I take this job, thenwhere can it lead to?
And all that, you know?
And I'm just like, just, justlike in the war, like in the
best way possible.
Like just shut up and like bustyour ass.
I'm like the bet that the bestthings that happened there, like
if you're worried about likeyour title, if you're worried
(20:21):
about all this stuff.
And I get why, like I girl, it'snot like I'm not like immune to
it, but like there's nothingthat that comes up better than
like the people that just likeput their head down and like
actually, you know, go in and dowork.
And you can tell the differencethough.
Uh, like once someone's thereand working, right, it's the
people that, you know, this whenyou, when you need something
done or where you want to dosomething, it's people that
like, if I've asked this person,am I going to like, feel like
(20:44):
I'm like bothering them orguilty or they like somehow make
as to the people that are like,yeah, I know I can count on that
person.
You know, and you can't, um, youcan't always spot that right
away in an interview.
That's hard.
But the best experience thatI've found is when you have
someone that has been worked ina startup or a small business,
do you want to do that?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
So you're not, I'm not a San Fran business.
You're a Detroit business.
And in this country we associateDetroit with you know, cars and
that kind of heavy industry.
What, uh, what has Detroitimprinted on stock X is DNA.
Josh Luber (21:15):
So my business partners, Dan Gilbert, um, you
know, the business he's mostknown for is as being the owner
of the Cleveland Cavaliers, buthis primary business were where
he made his money initially isin Quicken loans.
And Quicken is the largestmortgage lender in the United
States.
And Dan grew up in Detroit.
And what happened was about six,seven years ago, Detroit was at
the lowest point.
(21:36):
It was in bankruptcy.
The city was deserted and Danovernight moved in like mu moved
every one of his businesses indowntown Detroit, started buying
a buildings for pennies on adollar and basically
single-handedly rebuilt thecity.
And so for us, you know, wedon't work on Detroit stuff per
se, but that's Dan's mission inlife, right?
(21:56):
Like he's made his money and hestill runs 130 companies and
he's actually extraordinary.
But his mission and the missionof the larger mission of the
whole family of companies isaround the rebuilding of the
city of Detroit.
And so for us to sit there andbe a part of that even, you
know, just because we exist inDetroit and our headquarters is
there is, um, as extraordinary abig agenda going on part of your
(22:20):
journey and what's mostimportant and what ties in with,
with actually your, um, yourinterest here is Detroit is a
startup city.
And if you're a startup person,like, and now you get to live
and be part of a startup city,it's extraordinary.
And I don't know if there'sanother city in the world that
is like that where you have youbasically rebuilding of a major
(22:41):
city from scratch.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I'm reminded of another brilliant entrepreneur,
Jeff[inaudible] who said, um,failure isn't optional.
It's not optional.
If you want to be inventive,right?
You, you're gonna, you're gonnamake mistakes.
How do you deal with failure?
Josh Luber (22:54):
You know, it's funny, I never have any like
failure quotes that I use often,but that's a really good one.
And then, yeah, I mean, failureis, is, um, it's not only part
of the process, it's like a hugepart of the process.
I, I don't have any decisions Ihave to make a day, you know, a
day or whatever, but like, man,if I can just get a couple of
them right.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think through, there's a few just kind of
personal questions here.
Um, your three top bits ofbusiness advice.
Josh Luber (23:21):
So, uh, I get asked this in, in some form a lot.
And uh, it's funny because, um,that there's two that are, that
dominate and it is, um, theysound like the most generic
basic things, but they couldn'tbe more important.
So one is just do something,right, which is that so many
people sit around and just, youknow, like, ah, I wish I could
(23:42):
do this or I wish I could like,just do something.
Even it's the most smallest, mymost, my new thing that you
don't necessarily where knowwhere it's gonna happen or what
it's going to do.
Like you have to be moving,doing something, move forward.
And if you're passionate aboutthe process, right, that's, it
should be an easy thing.
Take a step.
Yeah.
Like literally, you know, peopleask me all the time like, Oh,
you know, how did you ever builda$1 billion company?
(24:05):
I was like, I didn't like Ibuilt whatever.
The next thing was.
Like it's one foot in front ofthe other.
Right.
And um, and then the other thingis, is talk to everybody.
Talk to everybody and anybodyabout everything.
Don't ever think someone's gonnalike steal your idea.
Don't ever show up with like anNDA to talk to someone.
Like, first of all, if you havesome great idea, I already said
(24:25):
earlier, I think ideas areworthless and executions the
only thing that matters.
But like if you have think youhave some great idea and you're
going to go talk to someone andthey're that talented and great,
they could steal your idea andgo do it, but they're not doing
anything.
They're just sitting around andhave all this time in the world,
they can go.
No one's going to be able to beas passionate and dedicate all,
it's about execution.
So you should talk to everybodyabout everything because all
(24:48):
you're going to do is get morefeedback and iteration and
people would help with and findpeople and introductions and all
that.
And a lot of people like don'tdo that if you're like, Oh I
need to keep this private.
Those are the things and it'slike simple, right?
Like just do something and talkto everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah.
Talk to them on that.
I mean it's kind of counter tothat cause I think when you have
a great idea, your naturalinstinct is right.
Josh Luber (25:05):
Protect it, protect it.
Everybody has other people aregoing to have some version of
that idea.
Right?
By the way, stock X, we didn'tmake this up like the stock
market has been the mostefficient form of commerce for
hundreds of years.
And all we did was pointed fromthese commodity stocks and bonds
and oil and gas to these, tosneakers and watches and
handbags, right?
No.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
All, I've got a last question for you.
This is a bit of a funny one.
We've got a, we have this athing here on a, on the good old
BBC called desert Island discswhere guests get to say which
songs they take with them, uh,on a desert Island and I wanna I
wanted to do something similarbut updated and cause I'm a
total Saifai geek and I'm soexcited about the idea of one
day human beings on Mars or themoon.
(25:47):
I had this idea of, okay, I'mgoing to call it a moon base bag
or something.
You got one bag, right?
It's a Louis Vuitton bought onstock X, obviously a, what are
you packing it?
You got a one way ticket, you'regoing to go and live on the moon
or Mars.
You're not coming back.
What do you take with you?
Josh Luber (26:03):
I mean, like the amount of just work that I can
do on my phone.
Yeah.
Like forget about the, it waslike whatever, social and all
that, but like I can run entirebusiness like on my phone and
all this, and it's likeunbelievable to do that because
how can I start like the nextcompany or do their whatever
that tool is at that time.
However that is.
Like today, it's a phone, butit's something they'd be able
(26:24):
to, to do that.
That's gonna be the past time oflike creating new civilization.
You're going to create some sortof business on.
Yeah.
It's an extension of ourselves.
Really good to meet you.
That's great.
Great to talk to you.
Thanks for having me.
This is awesome.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Jeez.
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