December 19, 2023 • 21 mins
Are you ready to challenge your perceptions and see counseling in a new light? We're here to dismantle preconceived notions and expose the true value of trust, transparency, and spiritual parenting within the realm of counseling. Building trust is no simple task, especially when it comes to sharing personal struggles and seeking guidance. Yet, we recount our own transformative experiences to express just how crucial trust is in the journey of healing and spiritual growth.
Have you ever considered the role spiritual parents play in nurturing faith? We certainly have, and we're excited to share our insights! We shed light on our spiritual parents - Pastors Ed and Helen - who have been instrumental in enhancing our resilience during challenging times. Moreover, we underscore the importance of spiritual mentors in guiding younger believers. Moving on, we grapple with the stigmas attached to counseling, especially within the black community. With an open mind, let's explore why these stereotypes need to be broken and how counseling can be as critical as physical healthcare for maintaining our mental well-being.
Finally, we turn our attention to the church's role in addressing mental health. Drawing from my experiences in the military and my work with PTSD and addiction patients, we advocate for creating a safe space within the church for individuals dealing with mental health issues. Join us as we accentuate how important it is for the church to provide a supportive environment for those struggling. Our hope is that our conversation inspires you to approach counseling from a completely new perspective, realizing the monumental role it plays in both mental health and spiritual growth. Let's begin this enlightening journey together.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
So, uh, but that's, that's just real talk, man, um,
but I feel like in counseling,uh, in pastoral care, all of
that, uh, there's how to betrusted.
Yes, has to be trust.
Yes, because we can't do whatwe do if you don't trust us.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Let's talk about that .
Let's talk about that.
What's, what's some ways thatyou and Tina has cultivated that
trust in clients, or helpcultivate that trust to build a
community of people, to lovepeople back to life.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it goes to it's .
It's a lot of it.
A lot of it is done outside thecounseling session.
First, they want to see if youare a man or woman of your word.
If you, if you the same person,the same dude out there yeah, if
you the same dude, uh, or, or,you know, they they want to make
sure that what you say is whatyou say, you know, and, um, they
(00:57):
want to also make sure thatwhat they, they come to you in
confidence, come on, that's thewhole church or neighborhood,
don't know what's going on.
That's big, you know, uh, andwith our practice, you know, our
practice is housed at ourchurch, so, and we, we have a
lot of church members that wesee, so when we see them on
Sunday morning it has to be whatwe see.
(01:18):
You know, we can't see them aswhat we saw them in the
counseling session.
See, you say what I'm saying?
Yes, so, uh, you know.
So that's that's important, man, you know where that's an
arbitrary having a meeting afterthe meeting, that's an art.
Oh yeah, Well, it's, it's, ittakes, it takes intentionality
and discipline Obra obra,because there's some heavy stuff
(01:40):
that we deal with, yeah, andyou got to be prepared for it,
you know, uh, but prepared.
Preparation is to prayer.
Yep, do fasting.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Uh, all of that man, you know that you don't hear a
lot about, you know and uh, butalso too, I feel like people saw
us at our lowest, hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Come on, you know, they saw us at breaking point,
that's important.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Uh, they saw us where you all, we felt like all hope
was lost.
Yeah, and, and God has, hasgripped us and pulled us up by
the bridges and like, look, youcan do this.
Yeah, so they see us walk.
They saw us walk through thatthat testimony.
Yeah, yeah, so now that it'slike, okay, they did a real deal
.
Yeah, you know they what theysaying, they that's, that's,
(02:23):
that's real, that's real talk.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And that's important because I think that helps break
.
We've been talking about thestigma of counseling.
I think that helps break thatstigma where, as sometimes you
go into counseling thinking theperson that's speaking to you is
better than you, ah, and youthinking the person that's
helping you has never beenthrough anything.
Come on, man.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You think I'm going to tell you like this I don't
want nobody counseling me.
They ain't been through nothing.
Boy, can I tell you that if youain't never walked through
nothing, if you ain't never beenbroke, if you you know what I'm
saying If you ain't ever dealtwith some stuff anger, all that
you ain't never dealt with, howyou're going to be able to kind
of counsel me, dude.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I remember telling my wife we was going through some
stuff and we were like who wegoing to go to.
I said, look, I ain't trying tobe funny, but I want our
marriage to work.
Mm-hmm, but I refuse to letsomeone speak into our marriage
that ain't been married for aminimum of 10 years, dude, you
(03:24):
better quit playing with me.
Or ain't even been married atall, because, like you, can't
come telling me what you think amarriage should be like when
you ain't never experienced themarriage, or you've been married
two years and you're an expertnow.
Oh Lord, have mercy.
We, you know so I'm.
So, my wife and I, we weretrying to get through this thing
and we were like we want someseasoned and we don't want just
(03:46):
people who've been married along time but sleeping separate
bedrooms.
We want some people that's beenmarried and still like each
other I, you know, cause youcould still love someone that
don't like them.
But I want someone to speakinto my life and speak into my
marriage and counsel us thatthat that has been through some
stuff, that has has weatheredthe storms and that can tell us
(04:08):
it's going to be okay, becausethey know they don't.
Just, I believe, by faith, thaty'all go no, no, no.
We know God has brought usthrough some stuff and he will
bring y'all through your stufftoo.
And, man, I'm going to shoutout.
I feel it in my spirit, I'mgoing to shout out pastor, ed
and pastor.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Helen.
Oh yes, what out of doubt.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
They've been our spiritual parents for years and
they've been pouring into it.
My wife was counseled by MsHelen and I'm not counseled
disciple, disciple by her,disciple by her.
Yeah, I remember when I was onstaff at a church that we were
all going to together and I was,I had a pornography addiction
(04:51):
and I had to Confess to theelders and the pastors Dude,
that was the most uncomfortablething I ever did in my life and
I'm sparing it all because I'mlike, look, it is what it is,
(05:11):
yeah, and my wife is sittingright there next to me so she'd
be like, alright, nope, tell ussome more, got you left some
stuff out, but nope, you, you,you being too high level, I need
that, I need you to get in theweeds with it, let's get free.
So I always had my wife with mewhen I'm, when I'm doing stuff
like that, because she, she,come on you being too generous
(05:34):
oh yeahthat ain't really.
And so I was sharing it all andI got in a nitty gritty man and
I felt like nothing.
I felt like nothing and Helencame to me and was like, harold,
it's better for you to get thisout now so that when God start
(05:55):
really using you, he ain't gotno ammo, enemy ain't got no ammo
.
Yeah, the thing that changedthe way that I saw them and and
why I trusted them a hundredpercent, undoubt, is because
they knew everything and Stillspoke life over us and they said
here, we know God's gonna useyou and we know the things that
(06:15):
God has in store for you.
Don't let this diminish.
Yeah, who you are meant to be.
Yeah, because we see thatperson.
Oh yeah, we don't see thisperson that you shameful and
embarrassed and you know.
And I'm like I Told my wife Isaid I Can rock with that.
They the real deal they the realdeal, that a real deal.
And they and they weren'tafraid to say, look here, I look
(06:37):
, when me and Helen was first,you know, look, or you know me,
and a was, and they were justand they will be vulnerable,
yeah, and they would betransparent, yeah, but they
never seen us differently and Iwas like that's what I'm talking
about.
I want that type of person, ora couple, to pour into me.
(06:59):
And so when people come to meor people come to you guys, they
like look, man, we've witnessedthe real deal with them and we
know they gonna keep it 100.
Keep it 100, man, you have to.
We gonna keep it focused on theLord, but we ain't sugarcoating
it because we here to help.
We have to.
(07:21):
And I love that when becausethey didn't call it out some
stuff for us.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
They didn't call us out.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Listen.
They ain't been in our housethey didn't listen, but when
people have been through somestuff and you've seen them get
through, that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh, it's great.
It's great and I said it againthat they are the real deal.
Pasha is the real.
Ms Helen is the real deal.
There was a situation that Iwas going through when we lost
our son, aaron Aaron.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Jr.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And I was in a crossroad hell.
I was like man.
I don't, I'm like man.
I've been in ministry it wasover like 20 some of my years
and I was like, oh, why, man?
What's going on?
And the Lord said call Pashacall Pasha.
I said look, this is where I'mat, this is where my headspace
is.
I'm trying to figure things out.
(08:13):
Yay or nay, turn right, left.
I said, Pasha, I need you toagree on some things.
Take it to prayer.
He did just that.
He said but I'm gonna tell youthis ain't going nowhere.
Just between me and you and theLord, he ain't going nowhere.
And he did just that.
(08:34):
He took it to the Lord, but notonly that man.
He will follow up how you doing, Are you good?
That part?
You know.
He know how much Aaron Jr meantto me.
He was always, always hittingme up, and so people like that
they just, they learn, they growon you and they be part of you.
(08:56):
I look at them honestly to me,as a spiritual mom and dad.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I'm a grown dude.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I'm a grown but I look at them as spiritual
parents, man, because they knowthey're wise, they they real.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I don't want, I don't want.
I'm gonna keep it one hundred.
You know me, I don't like fakefolk, man fake folk, I'm like
dude, I mean, I mean, it justwastes time, it's you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
That's the best way to put it.
It's a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's a waste of time when you fake you phony and all
this stuff.
You know, but you know whatyou're gonna get when you get
past the edge.
Ms Helen, you know that, youknow.
So it's.
They are a blessing to the bodyof Christ.
Yeah, and my prayer is God,raise up more.
That's a good prayer.
Spiritual parents, that's agood prayer.
That's a good prayer.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Because we, we need so much man on every level,
every level man, I would say.
I would go so far as to saythere wouldn't be so many per
not per prominent people in thebody of Christ falling If there
were spiritual parents in thoseareas to lead and guide.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's 100% man.
You know how God does.
He put spiritual parents inyour life and those spiritual
parents are pouring into you andyou raising up spiritual sons
and daughters underneath you.
Come on, you know, cause we'vegot some.
I got one in the room,spiritual son.
(10:32):
You know where I like.
You know he know like.
He come in like look bruh thisis this and he respects that.
Yes, you know and.
I respect him and it's a two waystreet, so I enjoy instead of
us being so.
(10:53):
Title mindset Come on.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, come on.
I think that's part of thestigma.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's title mindset.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Part of the stigma is that you want someone with a
title to give you that counselorto give you that because I've
spoken to so and so.
It's like, come on, man, theLord using them, the Lord using
them.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Ha ha ha ha Bro, I'm telling you, man, the Lord, to
use my little 12 year olddaughter to speak to me before
Come on and she ain't been tocollege the first.
But I tell you what she was.
She was, you know, and spokeand some things triggered in my
heart.
I'm like, oh okay, that's God,yep.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And we got to be open to that.
We have to be open and I think,I think you know, breaking that
stigma.
If I could say anything tobreak, you know, we wrap up this
episode, man, but if I couldsay anything to break the stigma
of people in the church gettingcounseling, but also, more
importantly, man, people in theblack community, man, we really
(11:51):
have so much to unpackagegenerationally, heritishly, you
know, you know, ancestral stuffthat needs to be unpackaged in a
very real way, not, you know,and I think the dangers, I think
a lot of times you know a lotof Christians shy away from
(12:12):
counseling is because of thehumanistic aspect that the world
has about counseling, you know.
But what I love about biblicalChristian counseling is that we
have a biblical worldview and wehave a spiritual alertness to
what is going on and there'sthings that the world is trying
(12:36):
to address psychologically withthe void of the spirit.
But if we would just give theLord a chance through the spirit
of counsel, because a lot oftimes everybody wanna be solo,
everything.
I wanna be counseled by God andGod alone.
God's gonna tell me everything,he's gonna reveal everything
(12:57):
and I'm gonna get healed throughhis voice and his voice alone.
And I always like somebody wastelling me.
It was like man, I don't needno pastor, I don't need no
counselor, I don't need to go tono church because I'm the
church you know and I'm like toa degree you're right, you know,
to a degree you're right, Isaid, but God never stops
speaking.
So tell me why you can't hearhim.
(13:18):
Because, yes, god can heal you,yes, god can counsel you, but
if you ain't hearing him or ifyou're not positioning yourself
to have an alertness and asensitivity to him, then you
need help, you need help.
You need help.
And some people are sotraumatized that they calloused
to the voice of God Ooh, andthat spiritual counselor will be
(13:43):
that voice until you healedenough to hear it for yourself.
And that's my prayer Don'tdepend on me, don't depend on
anyone else.
We're not.
I'm not promoting mental healthcoaching and counseling and
therapy so that you can dependon another person, because I
don't wanna depend on them.
No, no, I'm not saying that youshould depend on them.
(14:05):
I'm saying that allow God touse them until you're healed
enough to hear clearer foryourself.
Because I've helped some.
I've talked to some brothersman, that's just my friends and
they this is what the Lordtelling me.
I'm like, look, I'm gonna be100 with you, brother.
That ain't God you hearingfiltering that through some
other stuff?
And let's look at the word.
(14:25):
Based off what you just told me, that don't line up with
scripture, brother.
So is God really telling youthat?
Or is you filtering throughthat, through some people that
didn't hurt your feelings andyou just you know.
And so my recommendation is thestigma is that you're not
coming to a person as much asyou're coming to the Lord and
(14:45):
allowing him to work throughthat person to get you to a
place where you could walk freer, and I love that about that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh, it's huge man and you gotta think about it like
this, Harold, I mean, you breakyour arm, you go see a doctor.
You gotta too, think you go seea dentist.
Most people you wanna getmarried go to church house.
You find a pastor.
I look at it like this they'rea therapist.
You know, Cause you know, ourminds get sick, our brains get
(15:14):
sick.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Dude, that's a real thing.
They get sick man, that's areal thing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
It's an organ.
They get sick.
So you need a therapist to walkyou through that, a counselor,
you need somebody, an expert,that can walk you through that.
And I feel like, asAfrican-Americans, we allow
things, we deal with it in adifferent way at times, because
it's always been that way.
(15:38):
Mom and daddy dealt with itlike this this is how it goes in
our house and the stays in ourhouse, sort of to speak.
So we gotta get outside of thatand as Tina and I, we made that
in East of Love.
This, you know, our skin is adifferent color for some folk.
But this is where we how the Godhas trained us our mindset to
(16:02):
pull some folk back out of theneighborhood.
Go back, look, y'all need help.
We need help.
Come on, we're gonna help youthrough this and move forward in
that process.
But one last thing that I wouldlike to say about counseling is
this, harold is with counseling, you gotta come at it with a
different mindset.
(16:23):
You know, and cause you talkedabout that, you know having that
dogmatic mindset about somethings, but I love about Inspire
Hope counseling is this that wesee community clients, clients
that don't know the Lord, comeon, okay, so we don't shut the
door just because you're not abeliever, cause they hands get
sick too.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Come on somebody, just cause you don't know, jesus
don't mean your brain don't getsick.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yes, yes, so, cause I could sense you know, so this
is how we do it.
You know we have communityclients, clients, that's you
know that outside the churchhouse they don't know anything
about the Lord, so we let themknow.
This is what we do.
Yep, okay, this is what we do,and it's and it's this is an
option for you.
Yes, okay, cause you, you know,and, and 95% of the time they
(17:10):
good with it.
They like look, I'm sittinghere, let's go.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I will tell you what dude in a secular capacity I've
been in the military cause mostof my experiences in the
military, you know, dealing withpeople with PTSD and addictions
and stuff like that, and me noteven a chaplain, just a leader.
But they know how I move, theyknow that I'm a believer, they
know that I'm a pastor and theylike, look, man, I need you to
pray about this, I need you tohelp with this, and I'm like,
(17:34):
look, this is my worldview, thisis how I see it and I'm good
with it at the schools dude,there was one week I prayed for
three staff members who are notsaved, who came to me telling me
what they were dealing with andasked me for my counsel and for
(17:56):
my prayers Not mine is mine,but you know and they knew who I
was and I knew they wouldn'tsay, but they, like he got
something that I know will helpme in this situation and I'm
willing to let him do it.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Bro, they watching you, they watching, they
watching Matter of fact, theywatching us, they watching
everybody, they watching thechurch.
They watching everything youknow and we could give ourself a
bad name.
That's right If we can getcareful, yeah.
So we gotta make sure that weare doing the right things the
right way being a good witness.
Being a good witness because Idon't want to mind witness, to
(18:36):
be all jacked up and then I wassupposed to talk to you because
you was dealing with you're nota Christian, but just because
you didn't see me kicking it atthe bar last night.
But I was on Sunday morningpreaching, like you know, like
no other they looking like holdon bro.
No, we can't do that man.
So you know we, you know, andI'm gonna tell you, church folk
get their own self a bad rap.
Come on, we do.
(18:56):
And we got a man up, woman up,to like look, that's not what
it's all about.
We gotta do this thing theright way.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And it's powerful.
It's a powerful witness manbecause, especially in the
mental health space man, whenpeople are not doing well, they
look to us for safety.
Yeah, and we gotta be able toprovide that and not be an
unsafe space for people.
So I love that man, Iappreciate that, I appreciate
(19:23):
you guys breaking down thatstigma, breaking down those
barriers and those walls, forthe work that you guys are doing
, both in the community and inthe church, is necessary, is
needed, and God is justbeginning.
He's just beginning, bro.
So, uh, but that's, that's just real talk, man, um,
but I feel like in counseling,uh, in pastoral care, all of
that, uh, there's how to betrusted.
Yes, has to be trust.
Yes, because we can't do whatwe do if you don't trust us.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Let's talk about that .
Let's talk about that.
What's, what's some ways thatyou and Tina has cultivated that
trust in clients, or helpcultivate that trust to build a
community of people, to lovepeople back to life.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, it goes to it's .
It's a lot of it.
A lot of it is done outside thecounseling session.
First, they want to see if youare a man or woman of your word.
If you, if you the same person,the same dude out there yeah, if
you the same dude, uh, or, or,you know, they they want to make
sure that what you say is whatyou say, you know, and, um, they
(00:57):
want to also make sure thatwhat they, they come to you in
confidence, come on, that's thewhole church or neighborhood,
don't know what's going on.
That's big, you know, uh, andwith our practice, you know, our
practice is housed at ourchurch, so, and we, we have a
lot of church members that wesee, so when we see them on
Sunday morning it has to be whatwe see.
(01:18):
You know, we can't see them aswhat we saw them in the
counseling session.
See, you say what I'm saying?
Yes, so, uh, you know.
So that's that's important, man, you know where that's an
arbitrary having a meeting afterthe meeting, that's an art.
Oh yeah, Well, it's, it's, ittakes, it takes intentionality
and discipline Obra obra,because there's some heavy stuff
(01:40):
that we deal with, yeah, andyou got to be prepared for it,
you know, uh, but prepared.
Preparation is to prayer.
Yep, do fasting.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Uh, all of that man, you know that you don't hear a
lot about, you know and uh, butalso too, I feel like people saw
us at our lowest, hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Come on, you know, they saw us at breaking point,
that's important.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Uh, they saw us where you all, we felt like all hope
was lost.
Yeah, and, and God has, hasgripped us and pulled us up by
the bridges and like, look, youcan do this.
Yeah, so they see us walk.
They saw us walk through thatthat testimony.
Yeah, yeah, so now that it'slike, okay, they did a real deal
.
Yeah, you know they what theysaying, they that's, that's,
(02:23):
that's real, that's real talk.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And that's important because I think that helps break
.
We've been talking about thestigma of counseling.
I think that helps break thatstigma where, as sometimes you
go into counseling thinking theperson that's speaking to you is
better than you, ah, and youthinking the person that's
helping you has never beenthrough anything.
Come on, man.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You think I'm going to tell you like this I don't
want nobody counseling me.
They ain't been through nothing.
Boy, can I tell you that if youain't never walked through
nothing, if you ain't never beenbroke, if you you know what I'm
saying If you ain't ever dealtwith some stuff anger, all that
you ain't never dealt with, howyou're going to be able to kind
of counsel me, dude.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I remember telling my wife we was going through some
stuff and we were like who wegoing to go to.
I said, look, I ain't trying tobe funny, but I want our
marriage to work.
Mm-hmm, but I refuse to letsomeone speak into our marriage
that ain't been married for aminimum of 10 years, dude, you
(03:24):
better quit playing with me.
Or ain't even been married atall, because, like you, can't
come telling me what you think amarriage should be like when
you ain't never experienced themarriage, or you've been married
two years and you're an expertnow.
Oh Lord, have mercy.
We, you know so I'm.
So, my wife and I, we weretrying to get through this thing
and we were like we want someseasoned and we don't want just
(03:46):
people who've been married along time but sleeping separate
bedrooms.
We want some people that's beenmarried and still like each
other I, you know, cause youcould still love someone that
don't like them.
But I want someone to speakinto my life and speak into my
marriage and counsel us thatthat that has been through some
stuff, that has has weatheredthe storms and that can tell us
(04:08):
it's going to be okay, becausethey know they don't.
Just, I believe, by faith, thaty'all go no, no, no.
We know God has brought usthrough some stuff and he will
bring y'all through your stufftoo.
And, man, I'm going to shoutout.
I feel it in my spirit, I'mgoing to shout out pastor, ed
and pastor.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Helen.
Oh yes, what out of doubt.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
They've been our spiritual parents for years and
they've been pouring into it.
My wife was counseled by MsHelen and I'm not counseled
disciple, disciple by her,disciple by her.
Yeah, I remember when I was onstaff at a church that we were
all going to together and I was,I had a pornography addiction
(04:51):
and I had to Confess to theelders and the pastors Dude,
that was the most uncomfortablething I ever did in my life and
I'm sparing it all because I'mlike, look, it is what it is,
(05:11):
yeah, and my wife is sittingright there next to me so she'd
be like, alright, nope, tell ussome more, got you left some
stuff out, but nope, you, you,you being too high level, I need
that, I need you to get in theweeds with it, let's get free.
So I always had my wife with mewhen I'm, when I'm doing stuff
like that, because she, she,come on you being too generous
(05:34):
oh yeahthat ain't really.
And so I was sharing it all andI got in a nitty gritty man and
I felt like nothing.
I felt like nothing and Helencame to me and was like, harold,
it's better for you to get thisout now so that when God start
(05:55):
really using you, he ain't gotno ammo, enemy ain't got no ammo
.
Yeah, the thing that changedthe way that I saw them and and
why I trusted them a hundredpercent, undoubt, is because
they knew everything and Stillspoke life over us and they said
here, we know God's gonna useyou and we know the things that
(06:15):
God has in store for you.
Don't let this diminish.
Yeah, who you are meant to be.
Yeah, because we see thatperson.
Oh yeah, we don't see thisperson that you shameful and
embarrassed and you know.
And I'm like I Told my wife Isaid I Can rock with that.
They the real deal they the realdeal, that a real deal.
And they and they weren'tafraid to say, look here, I look
(06:37):
, when me and Helen was first,you know, look, or you know me,
and a was, and they were justand they will be vulnerable,
yeah, and they would betransparent, yeah, but they
never seen us differently and Iwas like that's what I'm talking
about.
I want that type of person, ora couple, to pour into me.
(06:59):
And so when people come to meor people come to you guys, they
like look, man, we've witnessedthe real deal with them and we
know they gonna keep it 100.
Keep it 100, man, you have to.
We gonna keep it focused on theLord, but we ain't sugarcoating
it because we here to help.
We have to.
(07:21):
And I love that when becausethey didn't call it out some
stuff for us.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
They didn't call us out.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Listen.
They ain't been in our housethey didn't listen, but when
people have been through somestuff and you've seen them get
through, that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh, it's great.
It's great and I said it againthat they are the real deal.
Pasha is the real.
Ms Helen is the real deal.
There was a situation that Iwas going through when we lost
our son, aaron Aaron.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Jr.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And I was in a crossroad hell.
I was like man.
I don't, I'm like man.
I've been in ministry it wasover like 20 some of my years
and I was like, oh, why, man?
What's going on?
And the Lord said call Pashacall Pasha.
I said look, this is where I'mat, this is where my headspace
is.
I'm trying to figure things out.
(08:13):
Yay or nay, turn right, left.
I said, Pasha, I need you toagree on some things.
Take it to prayer.
He did just that.
He said but I'm gonna tell youthis ain't going nowhere.
Just between me and you and theLord, he ain't going nowhere.
And he did just that.
(08:34):
He took it to the Lord, but notonly that man.
He will follow up how you doing, Are you good?
That part?
You know.
He know how much Aaron Jr meantto me.
He was always, always hittingme up, and so people like that
they just, they learn, they growon you and they be part of you.
(08:56):
I look at them honestly to me,as a spiritual mom and dad.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I'm a grown dude.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I'm a grown but I look at them as spiritual
parents, man, because they knowthey're wise, they they real.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I don't want, I don't want.
I'm gonna keep it one hundred.
You know me, I don't like fakefolk, man fake folk, I'm like
dude, I mean, I mean, it justwastes time, it's you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
That's the best way to put it.
It's a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's a waste of time when you fake you phony and all
this stuff.
You know, but you know whatyou're gonna get when you get
past the edge.
Ms Helen, you know that, youknow.
So it's.
They are a blessing to the bodyof Christ.
Yeah, and my prayer is God,raise up more.
That's a good prayer.
Spiritual parents, that's agood prayer.
That's a good prayer.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Because we, we need so much man on every level,
every level man, I would say.
I would go so far as to saythere wouldn't be so many per
not per prominent people in thebody of Christ falling If there
were spiritual parents in thoseareas to lead and guide.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's 100% man.
You know how God does.
He put spiritual parents inyour life and those spiritual
parents are pouring into you andyou raising up spiritual sons
and daughters underneath you.
Come on, you know, cause we'vegot some.
I got one in the room,spiritual son.
(10:32):
You know where I like.
You know he know like.
He come in like look bruh thisis this and he respects that.
Yes, you know and.
I respect him and it's a two waystreet, so I enjoy instead of
us being so.
(10:53):
Title mindset Come on.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, come on.
I think that's part of thestigma.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's title mindset.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Part of the stigma is that you want someone with a
title to give you that counselorto give you that because I've
spoken to so and so.
It's like, come on, man, theLord using them, the Lord using
them.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Ha ha ha ha Bro, I'm telling you, man, the Lord, to
use my little 12 year olddaughter to speak to me before
Come on and she ain't been tocollege the first.
But I tell you what she was.
She was, you know, and spokeand some things triggered in my
heart.
I'm like, oh okay, that's God,yep.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And we got to be open to that.
We have to be open and I think,I think you know, breaking that
stigma.
If I could say anything tobreak, you know, we wrap up this
episode, man, but if I couldsay anything to break the stigma
of people in the church gettingcounseling, but also, more
importantly, man, people in theblack community, man, we really
(11:51):
have so much to unpackagegenerationally, heritishly, you
know, you know, ancestral stuffthat needs to be unpackaged in a
very real way, not, you know,and I think the dangers, I think
a lot of times you know a lotof Christians shy away from
(12:12):
counseling is because of thehumanistic aspect that the world
has about counseling, you know.
But what I love about biblicalChristian counseling is that we
have a biblical worldview and wehave a spiritual alertness to
what is going on and there'sthings that the world is trying
(12:36):
to address psychologically withthe void of the spirit.
But if we would just give theLord a chance through the spirit
of counsel, because a lot oftimes everybody wanna be solo,
everything.
I wanna be counseled by God andGod alone.
God's gonna tell me everything,he's gonna reveal everything
(12:57):
and I'm gonna get healed throughhis voice and his voice alone.
And I always like somebody wastelling me.
It was like man, I don't needno pastor, I don't need no
counselor, I don't need to go tono church because I'm the
church you know and I'm like toa degree you're right, you know,
to a degree you're right, Isaid, but God never stops
speaking.
So tell me why you can't hearhim.
(13:18):
Because, yes, god can heal you,yes, god can counsel you, but
if you ain't hearing him or ifyou're not positioning yourself
to have an alertness and asensitivity to him, then you
need help, you need help.
You need help.
And some people are sotraumatized that they calloused
to the voice of God Ooh, andthat spiritual counselor will be
(13:43):
that voice until you healedenough to hear it for yourself.
And that's my prayer Don'tdepend on me, don't depend on
anyone else.
We're not.
I'm not promoting mental healthcoaching and counseling and
therapy so that you can dependon another person, because I
don't wanna depend on them.
No, no, I'm not saying that youshould depend on them.
(14:05):
I'm saying that allow God touse them until you're healed
enough to hear clearer foryourself.
Because I've helped some.
I've talked to some brothersman, that's just my friends and
they this is what the Lordtelling me.
I'm like, look, I'm gonna be100 with you, brother.
That ain't God you hearingfiltering that through some
other stuff?
And let's look at the word.
(14:25):
Based off what you just told me, that don't line up with
scripture, brother.
So is God really telling youthat?
Or is you filtering throughthat, through some people that
didn't hurt your feelings andyou just you know.
And so my recommendation is thestigma is that you're not
coming to a person as much asyou're coming to the Lord and
(14:45):
allowing him to work throughthat person to get you to a
place where you could walk freer, and I love that about that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Oh, it's huge man and you gotta think about it like
this, Harold, I mean, you breakyour arm, you go see a doctor.
You gotta too, think you go seea dentist.
Most people you wanna getmarried go to church house.
You find a pastor.
I look at it like this they'rea therapist.
You know, Cause you know, ourminds get sick, our brains get
(15:14):
sick.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Dude, that's a real thing.
They get sick man, that's areal thing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
It's an organ.
They get sick.
So you need a therapist to walkyou through that, a counselor,
you need somebody, an expert,that can walk you through that.
And I feel like, asAfrican-Americans, we allow
things, we deal with it in adifferent way at times, because
it's always been that way.
(15:38):
Mom and daddy dealt with itlike this this is how it goes in
our house and the stays in ourhouse, sort of to speak.
So we gotta get outside of thatand as Tina and I, we made that
in East of Love.
This, you know, our skin is adifferent color for some folk.
But this is where we how the Godhas trained us our mindset to
(16:02):
pull some folk back out of theneighborhood.
Go back, look, y'all need help.
We need help.
Come on, we're gonna help youthrough this and move forward in
that process.
But one last thing that I wouldlike to say about counseling is
this, harold is with counseling, you gotta come at it with a
different mindset.
(16:23):
You know, and cause you talkedabout that, you know having that
dogmatic mindset about somethings, but I love about Inspire
Hope counseling is this that wesee community clients, clients
that don't know the Lord, comeon, okay, so we don't shut the
door just because you're not abeliever, cause they hands get
sick too.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Come on somebody, just cause you don't know, jesus
don't mean your brain don't getsick.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yes, yes, so, cause I could sense you know, so this
is how we do it.
You know we have communityclients, clients, that's you
know that outside the churchhouse they don't know anything
about the Lord, so we let themknow.
This is what we do.
Yep, okay, this is what we do,and it's and it's this is an
option for you.
Yes, okay, cause you, you know,and, and 95% of the time they
(17:10):
good with it.
They like look, I'm sittinghere, let's go.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I will tell you what dude in a secular capacity I've
been in the military cause mostof my experiences in the
military, you know, dealing withpeople with PTSD and addictions
and stuff like that, and me noteven a chaplain, just a leader.
But they know how I move, theyknow that I'm a believer, they
know that I'm a pastor and theylike, look, man, I need you to
pray about this, I need you tohelp with this, and I'm like,
(17:34):
look, this is my worldview, thisis how I see it and I'm good
with it at the schools dude,there was one week I prayed for
three staff members who are notsaved, who came to me telling me
what they were dealing with andasked me for my counsel and for
(17:56):
my prayers Not mine is mine,but you know and they knew who I
was and I knew they wouldn'tsay, but they, like he got
something that I know will helpme in this situation and I'm
willing to let him do it.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Bro, they watching you, they watching, they
watching Matter of fact, theywatching us, they watching
everybody, they watching thechurch.
They watching everything youknow and we could give ourself a
bad name.
That's right If we can getcareful, yeah.
So we gotta make sure that weare doing the right things the
right way being a good witness.
Being a good witness because Idon't want to mind witness, to
(18:36):
be all jacked up and then I wassupposed to talk to you because
you was dealing with you're nota Christian, but just because
you didn't see me kicking it atthe bar last night.
But I was on Sunday morningpreaching, like you know, like
no other they looking like holdon bro.
No, we can't do that man.
So you know we, you know, andI'm gonna tell you, church folk
get their own self a bad rap.
Come on, we do.
(18:56):
And we got a man up, woman up,to like look, that's not what
it's all about.
We gotta do this thing theright way.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And it's powerful.
It's a powerful witness manbecause, especially in the
mental health space man, whenpeople are not doing well, they
look to us for safety.
Yeah, and we gotta be able toprovide that and not be an
unsafe space for people.
So I love that man, Iappreciate that, I appreciate
(19:23):
you guys breaking down thatstigma, breaking down those
barriers and those walls, forthe work that you guys are doing
, both in the community and inthe church, is necessary, is
needed, and God is justbeginning.
He's just beginning, bro.
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