January 2, 2024 • 45 mins
Picture this - you’ve just capped off a long, grueling day at work. You step into your home, the sweet haven where your spouse awaits, ready to embrace you, providing both a biological and spiritual uplift - a mutual understanding and support that transcends the confines of a typical day. Journey with us, two married men, as we paint a canvas of our experiences in marriage - how we learned to envision our spouse's dreams as our own, the challenges we faced in maintaining a balance between work, ministry, and family life, and how the right amount of communication and space helps us weather the tempests of frustration.
We've all been there – juggling relationships, work and dreams, only to realize at some point that it's just not possible to keep all those balls in the air. But trust us when we say, we've found the sweet spot. Hear us out as we share how we learned to prioritize our spouses amidst the whirlwind of our ministry and work commitments. Discover how we affirmed and supported our wives, believing and investing in their dreams, and the transformative impact it brought to our marriages. We promise, it's not as daunting as it sounds - it's more rewarding than you can imagine!
Let's step into a realm often tiptoed around - the gender roles within a marriage. We challenge the outdated religious beliefs and underscore the importance of men taking on leadership roles, all while acknowledging the unique strengths and callings of their wives. We'll share our stories of growth and maturity in areas such as finances and decision-making – all credit to our wives. Listen in, as we unravel the dynamics of a strong and supportive marriage where both partners lead and support each other. Come, let's peel back the layers of marriage and discover its beautiful complexity together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I don't know if we could exhaust this topic.
I don't know if we could do itjustice in the little time that
we have, because I wanna respectyour time too, but what are
your thoughts?
And this could be as elaboratedas you want, but this is what I
wanna close with, because bothof us are married men, both of
(00:24):
us have wives that love us andwe love them.
And if you wanna take that realquick, you can, okay.
Both of us have wives that loveus and we love them.
And something that I think isvery important is for our spouse
to understand where we're atmentally and emotionally, like
(00:51):
knowing each other's triggers,knowing each other's struggles,
knowing each other's blind spots.
Like how beneficial, because alot of times, as man, we don't
want to show our vulnerabilitiesto our spouses because we the
knight in john armor, what youmean I got flaws, but some of
(01:12):
the things that's drawn castingout of the closest is knowing
each other and where ourlimitations are.
And so, like, what does thatlook like for you?
And how important is that in amarriage is knowing what each
(01:33):
other mental capacity is?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, I look at it, I look.
I just before we got married.
Tina and I have been married.
Now it'd be 28 years next month.
Yeah, January 20th.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Congratulations, brother, that's.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
A long time.
That's a long, we coming up on30, brother, yes, we.
But I tell you I had to.
it was different earlier on inour relationship and in our
marriage because it was allabout me and I was trying to do
everything about me, about mycareer it was all about me and
(02:10):
what I start doing later on inour marriage was allowing Tina's
vision to be my vision, which,like with this counseling thing
that we're doing with, that'swhere it started, with Tina and
(02:30):
I had to make her vision myvision and when I did that, we
got more close.
The closeness was there.
That's key.
That's key.
And a lot of times men feellike, okay, god's called me to
preach, god's called me to be apastor, and your spouse supposed
to just kind of follow along.
Yeah tag along and that's reallynot the way God created it
(02:53):
marriage to be, because you wasone, yeah.
So I had to understand that.
I'm gonna make Tina's vision myvision and my vision is her
vision.
And as it came together, we gotcloser in the bedroom, all that
.
It was just like we got morecloser.
(03:15):
We was real.
It was like we was dating again, man.
It was like because life has away of getting mundane and being
married so long, man.
It was like it was kinda wewere married and things was
going fine, but we were justmarried.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right, right, you were just married.
It got to the point where you,it was just married.
Nothing was new.
Nothing was new.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And we really.
So we really, we do all thetime we try to make it.
We spice it up every, everytime we can do, we spice it up,
whether, whatever trip we take,mm-hmm we like to do different
things.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We try not to do things the same way.
Yeah, you know, we spice it upa little bit.
That's so good, you know.
You know, I know what.
I know what her likes are, comeon, and she know what mine are,
yeah, which is important.
And so she knows my mentalspace.
She knows if I have a hard dayat work, come on, and I come
home, come on, she can read mebefore I even come in the door.
(04:19):
That's man I and, and noteverybody gets that, and she
move accordingly.
She move accordingly.
So she knows, okay, I'm notgonna approach him right right
then and then go to go pick uphis underwear out the bathroom.
I ain't even going there today.
I'm gonna let that.
I'm gonna let that way, I'm wegonna wait on that?
Yeah, but so she understandsthat, you know, and I understand
(04:42):
her.
You know, when she comes from acounseling session, I'm not I
let her come in and I let herthat moment lead.
Hmm, I let the moment lead like, okay, okay, how should I floor
in this moment?
And it's been helpful, man,it's been fruitful, yeah, but
you know how it is, man, withkids and ministry, and it's
(05:03):
always ups and downs and I don'tlike to paint a pretty picture.
You know, because you know me,I'm a hundred.
Yeah, one hundred dude, andthere's times where, where we
have some frustrating moments,app, absolutely we, we argue.
You know.
You know, brother, I blight, Icomplain sometimes.
Yeah, you know, I put it on me,baby, if you watching that I
(05:24):
said I'm gonna complain.
I complain sometimes and shehas to she.
She navigates through that,yeah, and and sometimes the
spouse when they hear thecomplaining, if they're not
receiving it and you know, in adifferent frame, the right way.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, yeah, cause an argument.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, but Tina, she knows, like she, okay, I'm gonna
let this do that, yeah, I'mgonna let this little
ice-skinned brother vet, and andthen all of a sudden, you know
things kind of come back andyeah, and I think I think that's
key, yeah is, as spouses, wehave to know what moment we're
(06:03):
in.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Is this a vinten moment?
Is this you want my feedbackmoment?
All right, just to shut up andlisten, mom.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, throwing that brother is just a cuddle moment.
All right, come on, I'm gonnacuddle sometimes.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Cuz, sometimes you just hey, I was reading a book
on on why good people mess upand the author was saying that
as men, it is important thatafter a long day's work that you
come home and you embrace yourwife.
(06:39):
Oh, he says, biologically andspiritually, it does something
to you.
Yeah, when you just bring it in, just hold her, yeah, and let
that energy just yeah, sit for alittle bit.
Really it, because a hugreleases octetosin.
Oh, yes, it does.
A hug, he says God created awoman, that her bosom Energizes
(07:03):
you the longer you hold her,yeah, yeah, as a as, not not
like as a perverted way, but asa way, as a, your chemistry,
your closeness, it don't.
You mean, guys say nothing.
You bring it in, baby, bring itin.
And when you go days and weeksand months without ever holding
(07:24):
your spouse, you know what thatdoes you mentally.
Brother, dude, that's how mustbe stepping out.
Say that, say that must besomething like do.
When I asked the brother he waslike man, I don't know about
her brother, like it ain't thesame, no more.
First question I asked him Iwas like man, when the last time
you hold your woman, man, shebe on some other knob, bro, I
(07:45):
don't care what she on youbetter go grab her.
Yeah, I Said because I could bemad at my wife and I'll just
hold her in my whole continents.
And attitude change, justchange it just change.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
But you know, brothers, you know back in the
day, remember we used to hold,hold our ladies hand, walk in
the mall, we hold in the hand.
That was a big thing back thenbrother, that was a big thing,
because it's solidified that shewas mine.
That's right.
So you, we walk in the mall.
We hold you know what's up.
She belong to me, bro.
We she rolled with me, right.
But you know brothers got awayfrom that.
(08:21):
They got away from that andI've said in several sessions
where they don't hold hands,they don't like to talk when
they get off work.
They go they go into, they, theymens little area and they, they
don't.
You know it's like, bro, youcan't, you can't survive like
that, can't.
No, can't survive, no, can'tsurvive.
But I look at it like this toher is that our, our spouses,
(08:41):
are they need Affirmation.
Yes, they need to be a firm,you know.
And I told Tina, I said anytimeI stop affirming you, you'd
call me out.
Oh, that's good, you call meout, because if I'm not
affirming you, something goingon with me, I Told somebody else
getting affirmed.
(09:02):
I said so because and it's avice versa so if we're not
affirming our spouses, somebodyelse gonna start affirming them.
Yeah, they'll make them feelvalued, important.
Yeah, like, why just use anexample at work.
You know, you know they arefirming her at work at how good
she is.
Then all of a sudden, the bossis the then trickled in.
Yeah, like this dude, shecalling him when she upset.
(09:23):
Oh, who that on the phone?
is happy how does happen?
That's how you know.
So we have to have startedfirming our spouses and do it
every single day.
I don't care what it looks like, it's small things.
Yeah, you know, I tell her baby, I love you before I leave you
a baby.
I'll let's just something we do.
I love you, baby.
Are you good today?
It looks beautiful man.
(09:44):
That color looks good.
Oh yeah, even if I don't evenlike the color hair, I'm still
like look baby.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
They look good on you that color good, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So, uh, affirmation is important.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, so I, I, I'm a firm believer that the
moment your wife stops feelingdesired, you're in trouble.
Say that you're in trouble.
Oh, and that's.
That's when the complimentsstop coming, the affirmations
(10:19):
stop coming, the, the, thelittle, the little Sentimental
things stop happening, and it's,it feeds us mentally, and it
feeds us emotionally and and andand.
About time we notice that isnot happening.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's too late.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, yeah and so, but they've already noticed.
Yeah, they just ain't saidnothing.
So the point that the fact thatyou said tell me the moment you
start recognizing that, becausea mom, a woman, will pick up on
something but won't say nothing, just to see if you would
change, I'm gonna, I'm noticing,ain't said it.
(10:55):
In a few weeks I'm gonna see ifhe notices and it'll change.
But I'm like, babe, I look,yeah, it's over my head.
Yeah, let me know, cuz I wantto.
And, um, my wife has called meout a number of times.
It's because she wants me totake the initiative with things,
and that's important.
And there was a time where Iwas praying with multiple guys
(11:18):
every morning, every morningthey would call me.
Sometimes I didn't even feellike praying and they hit my
line up and I'm like I gottapray.
And my wife we were gettingready for work and she was like
Negro, you praying with themmore than you praying with me.
Ooh, and I was like I couldn'tsay nothing, yeah.
And I'm like, she right, yeah,these cats waking me up, praying
(11:44):
with them, and she laying rightnext to me, yes.
And so I'm like I never want toget in a position to where I
allowed my busyness to cause adivision between our intimacy
and I'm like, look, baby, I'mtelling you these dogs look like
I ain't even praying to my wifeyet.
You gotta hold on Well and lookat it.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Think about it like this we in ministry been in
ministry forever and we praymore with folk at the altar than
sometimes that we do with ourspouses at home, and we gotta be
careful with that.
That's so good, and I'm carefuland I'm gonna say this I'm gonna
say this, harold, because I'mcareful that I'm not affirming
(12:28):
women at church more than I'maffirming women my wife at home,
come on, because what happensis it can create some stuff,
yeah, and we gotta be carefulwith that, you know, especially
as men, because that's what wedo.
You know we lie to edify folks,yeah, and sometimes that
edification if that woman is notgetting at her house but the
(12:49):
pastor or the preacher alwaysedifying, then there's that
growth.
There's that thing that goesthere, and you've heard me
minister several times at churchand I always affirm Tina, my
wife, before I get the messagestart.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
That's right, she my brown sugar.
Yeah, she my rib.
You know my rib bones.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I mean, I let them know Like listen, that's my girl
.
You know, that's my lady, youknow, because she seen me before
I didn't even see myself.
When she seen me in some stuffY'all ain't seen me in, you know
she done prayed me through somestuff Y'all don't even know
nothing about.
I wouldn't even be on thisplatform If the lady it wouldn't
just be laying hands on me, youknow.
(13:31):
So I always affirm her becausenumber one and some of y'all may
think that this is a little outthe way but she, my trophy,
that's my girl.
She my trophy, that's right, shemy trophy, and I'm not afraid
to say that's my girl.
So we got to make sure, as men,as ministers, that we are
(13:52):
pushing our women forward, ourspouses forward, you know, our
wives forward and like look,look, they eat somebody too.
Yeah, they somebody too.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
They got dreams, aspirations and goals.
Yeah, I've been built, boy.
Come on, so many God convictedme and I've shared this on the
podcast before.
But there's, and you just saidit yourself.
There's, there was a season inour marriage where it was all
about building up what I saw.
I thought we should be goingyeah, this is my vision, my
dream, my dream job, my dreamcareer, my business or whatever.
(14:23):
And she's taking the low routeand just I'm his, help me, I'm
his, I'm going to help him.
And then the Lord convicted me.
He was like your wife hasdreams, goals and aspirations
too.
Yes, they do.
The first time it happened, mywife was a stay at home mom.
(14:43):
She's take care of our kids.
She was homeschooling and she'stake care of our kids.
And I was out doing my thing.
Yeah, and the Holy Spirit waslike when the last time you
asked your wife, like what it isthat she wants?
Cause I was big on sharing myvision, I was big on telling
(15:04):
this world this is where I seeus at.
But it was really me, but itwas us.
And I asked my wife and shesaid you know what?
I think?
I wanna go back, I wanna teach.
I got a full degree that Iearned and I'm not using and I
wanna use it.
I never asked her how she feltabout that and I was like yo, I
(15:28):
need to support that.
And she's like, yeah, you know,a couple years ago, she wanna
do some music, she wanna putsome music out.
I was like, I was like hey andthe Lord challenged me.
He said, man, you didn't put somany resources and finances and
stuff into building your sidegigs, your income, your online
stuff.
He said you need to pour intoyour wife's gifts.
(15:49):
And she was like I was like,look, I'm gonna get you some
producers, I'm gonna get yousome studios sometime and get
some vocals, get some people.
And she was the continence andthe joy and the just listening
to her music and creating it.
And it wasn't people on theoutside looking in is like oh,
are they trying to make some?
(16:10):
It's like no, like to see mywife in the moment behind the
mic me messing with.
I learned how to navigate someof the software for the vocals
and the production.
I learned that just so that shecan do it.
And my wife, she looking at me,she like what?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
you learning all this little stuff?
Look at him go.
Look at him go.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And dude that brought so much life to her and I was
like what if I would have neverdid that?
And it wasn't about how far themusic went or how many sales or
how much.
It was like I stopped and I putall my attention and investment
into her and in her dream andwhat she wanted and emotionally
(16:56):
and mentally that fed her somuch, bro.
And the same thing happens whenshe does that for me, cause
like I'm like she helped me downa long time and Kyle and I
heard this comment.
It was like a lot of guys wantfans.
They want fans.
(17:18):
They don't want lifetimepartners.
They want everybody to strokethe ego and a fan watching you
at your best.
They only see your victories,they only see your highlight
reel.
They only see you know what I'msaying.
But your lifelong partner, shesees everything.
(17:42):
And sometimes we get soaccustomed to people seeing the
highlight reel in the fansthat's given us affirmation and
compliments and stuff.
And our wife was like look, Iknow the lazy you, I know the
irritating you, I know, and solike when you yeah, you preach
that word, but can you pick upafter yourself?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And so and we get used to the fan and we don't
appreciate the ones that's beenholding us down, oh yeah, oh
yeah.
And then you find yourself in asituation to where you get with
the fan and the fan ain't whatyou thought it was, or the fan,
or you ain't what the fanthought you was.
(18:26):
For real.
For real, it's real talk, man.
And so I think it's soimportant as spouses to know, to
always know, where our spousesare at emotionally and mentally,
so that we can feed that, butalso so that we can protect that
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, you know the Bible says about us.
You know, fanning the flame,you know you fan that flame, and
you know it's not just just you, just us fanning but we had to
fan that flame in our spouses,pushed them forward.
You know, I said, if I look atit like this, our ministry we
say this all the time it beginsat home first, yes, and it shows
(19:05):
at church.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
If it ain't it's show now.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You might not see it, but it'll show.
If your first ministry is notat home, taking care of mama,
taking care of them kids, it'llshow.
It'll show at church, man, andyou know, and through through
relationships and things likethat, how you talk to folk.
You know, and I'm big on how Italk to Tina, a certain way I
(19:28):
don't, I don't want to, Iwouldn't disrespect her.
Come on In front of otherpeople.
So I'm not going to disrespecther at home either.
You know what I'm saying.
So we got to get on that tip,you know, because I'm going to
tell you Tina is.
She's a smart, smart,intelligent, anointed powerhouse
.
She can preach.
She probably pretty better thanI can.
I know she can.
(19:49):
The girl could throw that outand we'll pray that and real,
for real.
And we'll pray the house now,for real, for real.
We'll pray the house now.
So I ain't afraid to be like,okay, baby, he did it here.
Go, go, go, go, dude, do you,baby, do it?
Yes, and we've got to get moremen, that's not afraid.
You know, because I thinksometimes you know, we get
(20:09):
afraid of what they can dobecause they're, because they're
female you know, no, no, no,that's that's, oh, that's old
gospel.
That's what I'm going to say.
Gospel, that's old religion,you know.
I like to say it's an oldreligion, old religious mindset,
that you know that that womencan't, they got to take the
backseat to us men, and that'snot.
I'm telling you that it is notthe way God created it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
He didn't design it that way Now we are to lead.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I get that.
Yes, men, we are to lead, andour wives they know that, and my
wife she knows, she wants me tolead my house, yeah, you know.
So if there ever a problem thatthe, that, the, the, the wife
is trying to lead more than youmay, want to take a look at that
, you know, because it's kind ofout of order a little bit and
us men we got to take ourrightful place in our home, yeah
(20:58):
, and lead effectively.
That's the problem Leadeffectively.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
That's the problem and and and.
When we can't.
One thing I love about my wifeis like you said, she.
She's a woman who knows how toinfluence me without
embarrassing me Like she will ifI'm talking reckless and she
like okay, this, this, she won'tsay nothing, but let us get in
(21:25):
the car.
She like, she like, look Nowyou know, you need to clean that
up and I and I respect thatbecause she knows she's like
look, I'm, I'm, I'm.
I'm going to make sure you sayface yeah, Because I don't need
us out here reckless because,everything you do is a witness.
(21:47):
Yes, it is, yes, it is.
Everything you do is a witness.
You can't, you can't, bebickering in public in the name
of being one hundred.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
You better come on with it.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
We just going.
We, you can't be arguing witheach other in public in the name
of keeping it 100.
No, you keep that at home.
Yes, but but um, another thingthat I love is that, um, she I
don't even know how to say it,but it's like when I'm not
(22:17):
performing in an area that Ishould be, or, I'll say it this
way, when I'm not leading in anarea that I should lead in.
Take our finances, for instance.
Like I was very not good withthe finances but she forced me
to be because she like, look,I'm not taking this over, you
(22:37):
gon' figure this out, you gon'clean this up.
And and it wasn't like ademanding thing, it was like
babe, we gon' be struggling ifyou don't get it together,
because I'm not going to takethis from you.
I believe God wants to to workthrough you in this area.
She says I don't.
She's like finances brings meanxiety.
When I got to pay the bills,when I got to balance the
(23:00):
checkbook, when I got to do all,she said that brings me anxiety
and I'm okay letting you dealwith that.
Even if you're making some poordecisions, I'm going to trust
God that you can get the righthelp and learn how to do this
and learn how to.
And there were some seasonswhere we just didn't have it and
she was just like babe, I'mpraying, I'm praying, I'm gonna
(23:24):
help where I can and I'm gonnacommunicate what I need, but
you're gonna have to lead inthis area.
And, dude, that forced me togrow up so fast in the area of
finances Like it legit, like shewouldn't.
She wouldn't be like you paytithes, or she wouldn't be like
(23:45):
where the money going, or shewouldn't be like it's the bills
paid.
What she would do if I missedthe bill and the pass-due notice
come and I just wanna make sureyou got this because it came
today you just wanna make sureyou got that and she'll leave.
Oh crap, let me go and pay thesebills.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
But you think about it.
Think about it, pat.
It's a teaching moment man itis.
It's a very teaching moment, butI feel like, as men, we could
take if that would have went adifferent way, where why ain't
you paying me?
I'm so tired of you paying andyou ain't doing it on time.
And it's the same message,though.
It's the same message, you seewhat I'm saying, but we will
(24:27):
receive that in a probablydifferent fashion.
Girl, you coming at me likethat I've been, you know, hold
on, take care of yourself andyou do it there, that's real
talk, hey that's real talk.
But we allow that teachingmoment.
But that's wisdom, you know,that our spouses have through
the Holy Spirit, you know.
(24:47):
And your wife has a propheticcall in her life too.
Yeah, so she sees some things,she sees a lot that I don't bro.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I just don't, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So and if I don't take heed?
Speaker 1 (25:00):
we messed up.
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you saidthat, because it's not that I'm
trying to be less of a man.
I just know she sees stuff thatI don't see.
So I got to, I got to, I got totake heed to it.
Yeah, she ain't calling theshots, she giving me insight.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Insight yes, it is, and she like babe and I know
like.
Ok.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I don't listen to this.
I'm going to learn the hard wayand we have to understand that,
as men, like our wives, havedifferent callings and different
anointings, my wife's level ofdiscernment is out of this world
.
Like my wife, like, if I'mdoing something, I ain't got.
No, she like look the Lord's.
I've been having these dreams.
Baby, You're going to have to.
(25:48):
This is how the Lord would do.
I was flirting with temptation.
You know how you, you, you pushthe envelope.
I ain't all the way there.
But I'm you know, it's enough towhere I know I shouldn't be
entertaining some stuff and mywife, the Lord would speak to my
(26:11):
wife and my wife was she's soslick with it and it's not
manipulative because she reallydidn't under, she just knew
something was off.
She said here's somethingthat's off.
And I had this dream.
I had this dream and she tellme the dream Now one, I could
talk the dream away, like Icould just be like look you
reading into it, this is what it.
(26:31):
But the Lord will give me theinterpretation.
You know what I'm showing herright Lord, like, yeah, so if
you don't get it together, itain't going to be no dream.
She going to see exactly whatit is.
And I would be like all right,babe, we need to pray Because
I'm struggling.
(26:51):
And this is where I'mstruggling and she and the
reason I do.
It didn't happen overnightBecause early in our marriage I
would try to man up, yeah, yeahand take it on and, all right,
I'm going to pull myself and mywife.
After my therapy session and mylast therapy session, my
therapist brought my wife in tothe session.
(27:12):
He was like all right, wewrapping this up, harold is, you
know he's doing good, but Iwant to bring you in so that you
know the signs and that youknow what to look for the red
flags, whatever when the Lord'sspeaking about some talk.
And so he brought her in and mytherapist said is there
anything you want to tell Haroldthat will help safeguard him in
(27:34):
this marriage?
And she said.
She said, babe, when you'rebeing tempted and when you're on
the edge, don't go it alone.
Let me in.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Let me in.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
She said I'm not gonna judge you, I'm not gonna
go telling everybody yourbusiness, but we're gonna come
together as one and we're gonnafight that thing together.
And I was just like the levelof weight that that took off for
me and we joke about it now andwe could be in a situation like
(28:09):
baby, you better hold your boyaccountable.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
She be like look, but it didn't get there overnight.
We had to build that.
We had to build that and thatlevel of trust yeah, yeah,
bringing it full circle thatlevel of trust that we have with
each other and we're able togive that to other people, cause
(28:38):
we know how to build that now.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
And those.
You got a lot of teachingmoments in there, man, where we
go through things not just forourselves but for other people,
and I feel like our marriageit's designed to be able to help
somebody else Absolutely.
So I look at it like when we gothrough something, it's not
always, oh, you gettingchastised by God and you do sin
(29:03):
and this, and that God's tryingto teach you something.
He's trying to teach yousomething through it, and when
he teaches us through it, heallows us to be able to be
effective to other couples, toother people, to other men, just
like right now.
We've got situations that wedone been through that.
(29:23):
Now we can look back and belike okay, now I see it.
Now my brother.
Now, bro, I done, been there,done that, here you go.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Listen, because when you've gone through it it's like
this suck this ain't gonna work, she ain't gonna trust me?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
she ain't gonna, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And but looking back on it, you're absolutely 100%
right.
It's designed in a way thatwill help other people If we
trust God enough to share it.
Some people so embarrassedabout what they went through
that they don't allow God to getthe glory from it.
(30:00):
It's like look, you made it.
Like you made it.
You made it.
I love it.
I remember my wife.
She was like she's like, if youever leave me, and then she
threatened and I said look, pay,I ain't work too hard to start
over with somebody else.
Yeah 100.
(30:22):
I said we didn't put in too muchwork to start over with
somebody else.
Yes, I ain't gonna get ain't.
No way I'm gonna get that madthat I'm gonna start over with
somebody else, come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That just don't make no sense.
We didn't put in too much time,they got through too much stuff
and then got to know each othertoo well to start over.
Now and then too.
Man, I'm not trying to give uphalf Come listen.
Look y'all jokers man y'all bemessing around too much.
I'm not trying to give up half.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I'm like we gonna work through this.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I told Tim baby, we gonna work this out at all costs
.
So we got a man up as men, wegot a man up number one.
So look, when we're down andyou know you wrong, we got to
admit it, confess that thing nowand then work through the
process.
Come on, it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
It is, it's worth it, and I'll wrap up with this.
I was listening to Jay Monte.
He's a rapper Christian rapperand he was, and one of his songs
it was called Free Me and hewas talking about how his wife
(31:39):
he and his wife was having someissues and he had just signed a
major record deal or whateverand he was going through a
divorce and so he was putting iton social media.
They went to court and got it.
Fine, he was celebrating and hesaid people was getting behind
them and said yeah, we glad yougot out of that situation so the
Lord can really use you.
And he got convicted because hewas like before I was even
(32:06):
saved, she was the one who wasdown for me when I ain't have
nowhere to stay.
I was sleeping on her couch.
When we had our kids, one ofthem married, she was the one
working two jobs and now I thinkI could do a little better.
And he was like he said it tookme getting at the end of myself
(32:33):
to realize my part, that Iplayed in that and now I have to
start over.
And he, like man, I would havenever.
If I would have known what Iknow now, I would have never
went through with that, butsometimes it seems like the
easiest route and I never wannadiscount any horrendous
(32:57):
situation that deserves andevery right to be out of that.
But when you actually thispodcast is do the work, and when
you do the work it works.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It does, it does, it works and it's not perfect.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It's not without flaws or anything, but it's
better.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I look at it, man.
Everything is designed to beworked out.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Everything, everything is designed to be
worked out.
It's up to us to make thechoice if we're gonna work it
out or some stuff.
You worked it out, you tried it, it ain't just not happening.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
But you gotta do the work through the process to get
there To figure out if it'sgonna work out or not.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I had one brother.
He was like man, I'm gonna geta pre-numptual agreement, we
gonna before I get married.
I ain't trying.
And I'm thinking to myself I'mlike bro, you literally okay if
it don't work out.
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
If it don't work out.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I gotta plan B and I feel like, as brothers, we try
to.
It is men, it's a man thing.
We want that plan B Cause I dothat work.
I'm saying, okay, if I don'tsell that, I got plan B, this
gonna work, I'm gonna go tothat'll work.
But sometimes you can't have aplan B like that.
Come on and I feel likemarriage is designed for you.
(34:23):
If that's the one, you didn'tsupposed to been to pray to God
about it and you know she theone, she the one.
But that production, theagreements and all that, if it
don't work out, you settingyourself up.
Setting yourself up.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, setting you up, I'll say this, man when it
comes to marriage and when itcomes to you know, knowing each
other, and building that thingand being there it's.
(35:02):
I think of the scriptures whereit says everything you say,
everything is to be worked out.
I think of the scripture wherethe Lord says let us reason
together.
Even God wants to work somestuff out with us.
I think of the scriptures whereit says if you disagree with
(35:22):
your brother, go to your brother, talk it out with him.
If it don't work, grab anotherbrother, talk it out with him
again.
If that don't work, grab thewhole community and talk it out
again.
And so the scripture is repletewith examples of hey, y'all, we
got to figure this out.
(35:42):
I was figured out.
Paul right into the differentchurches look, y'all, I've been
hearing some stuff.
We got to get this together andfigure it out.
Paul with Barnabas and Silas.
He like look, he can't comewith me.
Barnabas like hey, man, come on, bring him, bring him, bring
Peter with you.
Paul like nah, man, I ain'tbringing that joker with me
(36:04):
because last time he bailed onme and he and Barnabas had to
figure it out.
And Barnabas is like hey, he'llroll with me then.
You know what I'm saying.
And Paul like let him roll withyou then.
And I think about Paul and Peter.
Peter.
He want to be with the Jewswhen the Jews is around.
(36:25):
He want to be with the Gentileswhen the Gentiles is around.
And Paul called them on it.
Paul's like look, bro, we gotto figure this out because you,
being two-faced, you want to bewith the Gentiles when the Jews
ain't looking and you want to bewith the Jews when they come
around.
He like, look, man, we're goingto.
Let's reason to, let's get thisfigured out.
And I feel like so many timeswe quick the right people off.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, man, instead of figuring it out Instead of
figuring it out.
And I use that a lot in a lotof my sessions, because in
counseling, because what happensis when I say figure it out,
figuring it out may be callingit quits in certain situations,
or figuring it out means itworked out the way it's supposed
(37:08):
to work out, but we get sooften where we'll table it and
not come back to it.
You know you can figure it out.
You table the situation,whatever that situation is, but
you never dealt with it.
It's like boom, it's there, youknow it's there.
So therefore, you did all of asudden having these issues keep
coming around to it, but youain't figured it out.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So you kind of figure that thing out, man.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And you know so.
That's important in marriage.
Man Don't table it and leave itthere.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, you know figure it out, figure that thing out,
do the work, do the work.
I love that.
I think that's important, man,and we'll write right up there.
Don't table it, do the work.
And that's with anything Ithink of.
You know, when you got twopeople that bring trauma to the
relationship, don't table thattrauma.
Do the work.
You may not be ready right now,but do the work.
(37:58):
When you got an argument, causewe, we, we, we built those walls
to where, okay, this is offlimits.
You know, your mom, mymother-in-law, she off limits.
No, let's figure this out.
How are we going to coexist onThanksgiving without going at
each other?
Let's figure this out, becausethe solution might be they got
(38:23):
to come to us, we can't go tothem.
Yeah, the solution might beokay, we need to take a break
from them all together.
But let's figure it out so thatwe're on the same page and we
come to an understanding and notjust, okay, we just not going
to talk about that and how shetalking and how she doing.
And you know, and my wife and I, she, my dad was a dude.
(38:48):
He just said some off to allour stuff.
My dad was dude, was crazy, mywife had just had a baby and my
dad was like you don't lose thatbaby, wait anytime soon.
And she immediately looked atme and I was just like, yeah,
(39:11):
hey, what mom cook man.
Well, and so she ain't sayingnothing.
But when we got back to ourroom she was like you need to
talk to your dad.
And I was like well, I'm a, I'ma table, that, and we gon
figure it out.
And then the next time we camearound she was like no, no, no,
no, no, no, I'm not going overthere until you talk to him,
(39:31):
because it's only so much I canhandle with his jabs.
And if it's innocent and it'soblivious to him, then we, you
know, we need to figure that out, but we need to say something.
No, no, no, no.
You need to say something,especially your daddy.
And so I you know, me and my dadsitting on the porch with our
dunk and coffee and I'm like dadyou know, my wife really didn't
(39:56):
appreciate, you know, beingcalled fat and so many words,
and especially after just, youknow, giving it, and he, aw, man
, she be all right.
No, no, dad, she she's not allright.
And I'm like dad, you know, Iasked the Holy spirit to help me
(40:18):
articulate it to my father in away that was both honoring and
receptive.
And so the Lord reminded me ofa situation that happened at
church, with some church hurt,and I said, dad, you remember
when, uh, when the man we weredoing, we were, uh, the man was
getting together, having a man'smeeting, and uh, somebody
(40:43):
suggested that you, you know,have one of the parts in the in
the service.
And uh, one of the otherbrothers said, oh well, you know
, mcgee can't read that.
Well, we don't want him gettingup on there stumbling over
words and stuff.
And he, oh, yeah, yeah, I can'tbelieve.
He said that, I can't believethat that brother know that one
Christ life.
And I was like dad, that's kindof how she felt in this
(41:05):
situation Like you, you, youstab during the way.
That was kind of like little,little shady.
And he was like oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh yeah, I didn't even
mean it like that.
I was just trying to.
You know, talk to the younglady, you know, and you know how
we joking our fan.
I'm like bruh, she in you inlaw, she ain't in like she
(41:28):
didn't grow up in our household,I mean my dad.
We grew up in a relationship, wea Johnny Justin, yeah, hey, boy
, if you don't get your dad, youdon't get your old, and that's
how we buzz.
Her dad would never talk to herthat way.
You know, my dad, we, all men,it was just all boys and my dad,
I mean my mom, all boys so andI was like dad, like, but she
(41:48):
didn't take it like that, shetook it like you took it when
the men was making fun of youand your speech and your reading
and stuff.
And he like, okay, okay, so, oh, I'm going to apologize to her
when she come back over.
I'm like I'm going to bring herbecause she won't come.
I'm going to bring her home.
And my dad, he apologized, yeah, and and and.
But I had to.
To your point, if I had neverfigured that out, my wife would
(42:11):
have never went back over to myparents' house and I would.
You know what I would have did?
I would, I would have droppedher off at her parents and I
would have slid over to mine bymyself.
Yeah, and I would have learnedhow to live without ever dealing
with the issue.
But just that would have becameour new normal.
Our new normal would have beenlike well, you know my wife
(42:32):
don't deal with y'all.
That would have been normal.
Yeah, you know your funnyacting wife, when she ready to
come over, tell her she welcome.
But but it was on me and on usto figure that out, and that's
good.
And that's why I said, bro,that that's a gym.
We got to not let we can'ttable things and never come back
(42:53):
to it, because if we don't, wemake that our normal and wonder
why things are the way that theyare Because we never went back
to it.
So, bro, I appreciate you.
Man, man, listen, you got somuch wisdom and gems, bro.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
You, you, what you talking about, bro.
I appreciate being here.
You doing some things, man, andthis is a platform for this,
you know.
I appreciate it's a need, it'sa need for it.
You know, and I pray blessingsover you and your household,
your family, your ministry whatGod is doing?
Yeah, some open doors.
I believe God opened some doors.
(43:28):
Come on, just going to blowthings wide open for your family
, for you and for your family,man.
So God bless you.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Man, yeah, man.
But look, man, this ain't goingto be the last time you know
where I live in.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
This is not going to be the last time we have AP
three on witness man.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And so, look, man, I appreciate you, I love you and I
want to say, man, god bless youand inspire whole ministries in
the quarter household man, Love, love, All right bro.
I don't know if we could exhaust this topic.
I don't know if we could do itjustice in the little time that
we have, because I wanna respectyour time too, but what are
your thoughts?
And this could be as elaboratedas you want, but this is what I
wanna close with, because bothof us are married men, both of
(00:24):
us have wives that love us andwe love them.
And if you wanna take that realquick, you can, okay.
Both of us have wives that loveus and we love them.
And something that I think isvery important is for our spouse
to understand where we're atmentally and emotionally, like
(00:51):
knowing each other's triggers,knowing each other's struggles,
knowing each other's blind spots.
Like how beneficial, because alot of times, as man, we don't
want to show our vulnerabilitiesto our spouses because we the
knight in john armor, what youmean I got flaws, but some of
(01:12):
the things that's drawn castingout of the closest is knowing
each other and where ourlimitations are.
And so, like, what does thatlook like for you?
And how important is that in amarriage is knowing what each
(01:33):
other mental capacity is?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, I look at it, I look.
I just before we got married.
Tina and I have been married.
Now it'd be 28 years next month.
Yeah, January 20th.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Congratulations, brother, that's.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
A long time.
That's a long, we coming up on30, brother, yes, we.
But I tell you I had to.
it was different earlier on inour relationship and in our
marriage because it was allabout me and I was trying to do
everything about me, about mycareer it was all about me and
(02:10):
what I start doing later on inour marriage was allowing Tina's
vision to be my vision, which,like with this counseling thing
that we're doing with, that'swhere it started, with Tina and
(02:30):
I had to make her vision myvision and when I did that, we
got more close.
The closeness was there.
That's key.
That's key.
And a lot of times men feellike, okay, god's called me to
preach, god's called me to be apastor, and your spouse supposed
to just kind of follow along.
Yeah tag along and that's reallynot the way God created it
(02:53):
marriage to be, because you wasone, yeah.
So I had to understand that.
I'm gonna make Tina's vision myvision and my vision is her
vision.
And as it came together, we gotcloser in the bedroom, all that
.
It was just like we got morecloser.
(03:15):
We was real.
It was like we was dating again, man.
It was like because life has away of getting mundane and being
married so long, man.
It was like it was kinda wewere married and things was
going fine, but we were justmarried.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right, right, you were just married.
It got to the point where you,it was just married.
Nothing was new.
Nothing was new.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And we really.
So we really, we do all thetime we try to make it.
We spice it up every, everytime we can do, we spice it up,
whether, whatever trip we take,mm-hmm we like to do different
things.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We try not to do things the same way.
Yeah, you know, we spice it upa little bit.
That's so good, you know.
You know, I know what.
I know what her likes are, comeon, and she know what mine are,
yeah, which is important.
And so she knows my mentalspace.
She knows if I have a hard dayat work, come on, and I come
home, come on, she can read mebefore I even come in the door.
(04:19):
That's man I and, and noteverybody gets that, and she
move accordingly.
She move accordingly.
So she knows, okay, I'm notgonna approach him right right
then and then go to go pick uphis underwear out the bathroom.
I ain't even going there today.
I'm gonna let that.
I'm gonna let that way, I'm wegonna wait on that?
Yeah, but so she understandsthat, you know, and I understand
(04:42):
her.
You know, when she comes from acounseling session, I'm not I
let her come in and I let herthat moment lead.
Hmm, I let the moment lead like, okay, okay, how should I floor
in this moment?
And it's been helpful, man,it's been fruitful, yeah, but
you know how it is, man, withkids and ministry, and it's
(05:03):
always ups and downs and I don'tlike to paint a pretty picture.
You know, because you know me,I'm a hundred.
Yeah, one hundred dude, andthere's times where, where we
have some frustrating moments,app, absolutely we, we argue.
You know.
You know, brother, I blight, Icomplain sometimes.
Yeah, you know, I put it on me,baby, if you watching that I
(05:24):
said I'm gonna complain.
I complain sometimes and shehas to she.
She navigates through that,yeah, and and sometimes the
spouse when they hear thecomplaining, if they're not
receiving it and you know, in adifferent frame, the right way.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, yeah, cause an argument.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, but Tina, she knows, like she, okay, I'm gonna
let this do that, yeah, I'mgonna let this little
ice-skinned brother vet, and andthen all of a sudden, you know
things kind of come back andyeah, and I think I think that's
key, yeah is, as spouses, wehave to know what moment we're
(06:03):
in.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Is this a vinten moment?
Is this you want my feedbackmoment?
All right, just to shut up andlisten, mom.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, throwing that brother is just a cuddle moment.
All right, come on, I'm gonnacuddle sometimes.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Cuz, sometimes you just hey, I was reading a book
on on why good people mess upand the author was saying that
as men, it is important thatafter a long day's work that you
come home and you embrace yourwife.
(06:39):
Oh, he says, biologically andspiritually, it does something
to you.
Yeah, when you just bring it in, just hold her, yeah, and let
that energy just yeah, sit for alittle bit.
Really it, because a hugreleases octetosin.
Oh, yes, it does.
A hug, he says God created awoman, that her bosom Energizes
(07:03):
you the longer you hold her,yeah, yeah, as a as, not not
like as a perverted way, but asa way, as a, your chemistry,
your closeness, it don't.
You mean, guys say nothing.
You bring it in, baby, bring itin.
And when you go days and weeksand months without ever holding
(07:24):
your spouse, you know what thatdoes you mentally.
Brother, dude, that's how mustbe stepping out.
Say that, say that must besomething like do.
When I asked the brother he waslike man, I don't know about
her brother, like it ain't thesame, no more.
First question I asked him Iwas like man, when the last time
you hold your woman, man, shebe on some other knob, bro, I
(07:45):
don't care what she on youbetter go grab her.
Yeah, I Said because I could bemad at my wife and I'll just
hold her in my whole continents.
And attitude change, justchange it just change.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
But you know, brothers, you know back in the
day, remember we used to hold,hold our ladies hand, walk in
the mall, we hold in the hand.
That was a big thing back thenbrother, that was a big thing,
because it's solidified that shewas mine.
That's right.
So you, we walk in the mall.
We hold you know what's up.
She belong to me, bro.
We she rolled with me, right.
But you know brothers got awayfrom that.
(08:21):
They got away from that andI've said in several sessions
where they don't hold hands,they don't like to talk when
they get off work.
They go they go into, they, theymens little area and they, they
don't.
You know it's like, bro, youcan't, you can't survive like
that, can't.
No, can't survive, no, can'tsurvive.
But I look at it like this toher is that our, our spouses,
(08:41):
are they need Affirmation.
Yes, they need to be a firm,you know.
And I told Tina, I said anytimeI stop affirming you, you'd
call me out.
Oh, that's good, you call meout, because if I'm not
affirming you, something goingon with me, I Told somebody else
getting affirmed.
(09:02):
I said so because and it's avice versa so if we're not
affirming our spouses, somebodyelse gonna start affirming them.
Yeah, they'll make them feelvalued, important.
Yeah, like, why just use anexample at work.
You know, you know they arefirming her at work at how good
she is.
Then all of a sudden, the bossis the then trickled in.
Yeah, like this dude, shecalling him when she upset.
(09:23):
Oh, who that on the phone?
is happy how does happen?
That's how you know.
So we have to have startedfirming our spouses and do it
every single day.
I don't care what it looks like, it's small things.
Yeah, you know, I tell her baby, I love you before I leave you
a baby.
I'll let's just something we do.
I love you, baby.
Are you good today?
It looks beautiful man.
(09:44):
That color looks good.
Oh yeah, even if I don't evenlike the color hair, I'm still
like look baby.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
They look good on you that color good, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So, uh, affirmation is important.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, so I, I, I'm a firm believer that the
moment your wife stops feelingdesired, you're in trouble.
Say that you're in trouble.
Oh, and that's.
That's when the complimentsstop coming, the affirmations
(10:19):
stop coming, the, the, thelittle, the little Sentimental
things stop happening, and it's,it feeds us mentally, and it
feeds us emotionally and and andand.
About time we notice that isnot happening.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's too late.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, yeah and so, but they've already noticed.
Yeah, they just ain't saidnothing.
So the point that the fact thatyou said tell me the moment you
start recognizing that, becausea mom, a woman, will pick up on
something but won't say nothing, just to see if you would
change, I'm gonna, I'm noticing,ain't said it.
(10:55):
In a few weeks I'm gonna see ifhe notices and it'll change.
But I'm like, babe, I look,yeah, it's over my head.
Yeah, let me know, cuz I wantto.
And, um, my wife has called meout a number of times.
It's because she wants me totake the initiative with things,
and that's important.
And there was a time where Iwas praying with multiple guys
(11:18):
every morning, every morningthey would call me.
Sometimes I didn't even feellike praying and they hit my
line up and I'm like I gottapray.
And my wife we were gettingready for work and she was like
Negro, you praying with themmore than you praying with me.
Ooh, and I was like I couldn'tsay nothing, yeah.
And I'm like, she right, yeah,these cats waking me up, praying
(11:44):
with them, and she laying rightnext to me, yes.
And so I'm like I never want toget in a position to where I
allowed my busyness to cause adivision between our intimacy
and I'm like, look, baby, I'mtelling you these dogs look like
I ain't even praying to my wifeyet.
You gotta hold on Well and lookat it.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Think about it like this we in ministry been in
ministry forever and we praymore with folk at the altar than
sometimes that we do with ourspouses at home, and we gotta be
careful with that.
That's so good, and I'm carefuland I'm gonna say this I'm gonna
say this, harold, because I'mcareful that I'm not affirming
(12:28):
women at church more than I'maffirming women my wife at home,
come on, because what happensis it can create some stuff,
yeah, and we gotta be carefulwith that, you know, especially
as men, because that's what wedo.
You know we lie to edify folks,yeah, and sometimes that
edification if that woman is notgetting at her house but the
(12:49):
pastor or the preacher alwaysedifying, then there's that
growth.
There's that thing that goesthere, and you've heard me
minister several times at churchand I always affirm Tina, my
wife, before I get the messagestart.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
That's right, she my brown sugar.
Yeah, she my rib.
You know my rib bones.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I mean, I let them know Like listen, that's my girl
.
You know, that's my lady, youknow, because she seen me before
I didn't even see myself.
When she seen me in some stuffY'all ain't seen me in, you know
she done prayed me through somestuff Y'all don't even know
nothing about.
I wouldn't even be on thisplatform If the lady it wouldn't
just be laying hands on me, youknow.
(13:31):
So I always affirm her becausenumber one and some of y'all may
think that this is a little outthe way but she, my trophy,
that's my girl.
She my trophy, that's right, shemy trophy, and I'm not afraid
to say that's my girl.
So we got to make sure, as men,as ministers, that we are
(13:52):
pushing our women forward, ourspouses forward, you know, our
wives forward and like look,look, they eat somebody too.
Yeah, they somebody too.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
They got dreams, aspirations and goals.
Yeah, I've been built, boy.
Come on, so many God convictedme and I've shared this on the
podcast before.
But there's, and you just saidit yourself.
There's, there was a season inour marriage where it was all
about building up what I saw.
I thought we should be goingyeah, this is my vision, my
dream, my dream job, my dreamcareer, my business or whatever.
(14:23):
And she's taking the low routeand just I'm his, help me, I'm
his, I'm going to help him.
And then the Lord convicted me.
He was like your wife hasdreams, goals and aspirations
too.
Yes, they do.
The first time it happened, mywife was a stay at home mom.
(14:43):
She's take care of our kids.
She was homeschooling and she'stake care of our kids.
And I was out doing my thing.
Yeah, and the Holy Spirit waslike when the last time you
asked your wife, like what it isthat she wants?
Cause I was big on sharing myvision, I was big on telling
(15:04):
this world this is where I seeus at.
But it was really me, but itwas us.
And I asked my wife and shesaid you know what?
I think?
I wanna go back, I wanna teach.
I got a full degree that Iearned and I'm not using and I
wanna use it.
I never asked her how she feltabout that and I was like yo, I
(15:28):
need to support that.
And she's like, yeah, you know,a couple years ago, she wanna
do some music, she wanna putsome music out.
I was like, I was like hey andthe Lord challenged me.
He said, man, you didn't put somany resources and finances and
stuff into building your sidegigs, your income, your online
stuff.
He said you need to pour intoyour wife's gifts.
(15:49):
And she was like I was like,look, I'm gonna get you some
producers, I'm gonna get yousome studios sometime and get
some vocals, get some people.
And she was the continence andthe joy and the just listening
to her music and creating it.
And it wasn't people on theoutside looking in is like oh,
are they trying to make some?
(16:10):
It's like no, like to see mywife in the moment behind the
mic me messing with.
I learned how to navigate someof the software for the vocals
and the production.
I learned that just so that shecan do it.
And my wife, she looking at me,she like what?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
you learning all this little stuff?
Look at him go.
Look at him go.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And dude that brought so much life to her and I was
like what if I would have neverdid that?
And it wasn't about how far themusic went or how many sales or
how much.
It was like I stopped and I putall my attention and investment
into her and in her dream andwhat she wanted and emotionally
(16:56):
and mentally that fed her somuch, bro.
And the same thing happens whenshe does that for me, cause
like I'm like she helped me downa long time and Kyle and I
heard this comment.
It was like a lot of guys wantfans.
They want fans.
(17:18):
They don't want lifetimepartners.
They want everybody to strokethe ego and a fan watching you
at your best.
They only see your victories,they only see your highlight
reel.
They only see you know what I'msaying.
But your lifelong partner, shesees everything.
(17:42):
And sometimes we get soaccustomed to people seeing the
highlight reel in the fansthat's given us affirmation and
compliments and stuff.
And our wife was like look, Iknow the lazy you, I know the
irritating you, I know, and solike when you yeah, you preach
that word, but can you pick upafter yourself?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And so and we get used to the fan and we don't
appreciate the ones that's beenholding us down, oh yeah, oh
yeah.
And then you find yourself in asituation to where you get with
the fan and the fan ain't whatyou thought it was, or the fan,
or you ain't what the fanthought you was.
(18:26):
For real.
For real, it's real talk, man.
And so I think it's soimportant as spouses to know, to
always know, where our spousesare at emotionally and mentally,
so that we can feed that, butalso so that we can protect that
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, you know the Bible says about us.
You know, fanning the flame,you know you fan that flame, and
you know it's not just just you, just us fanning but we had to
fan that flame in our spouses,pushed them forward.
You know, I said, if I look atit like this, our ministry we
say this all the time it beginsat home first, yes, and it shows
(19:05):
at church.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
If it ain't it's show now.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You might not see it, but it'll show.
If your first ministry is notat home, taking care of mama,
taking care of them kids, it'llshow.
It'll show at church, man, andyou know, and through through
relationships and things likethat, how you talk to folk.
You know, and I'm big on how Italk to Tina, a certain way I
(19:28):
don't, I don't want to, Iwouldn't disrespect her.
Come on In front of otherpeople.
So I'm not going to disrespecther at home either.
You know what I'm saying.
So we got to get on that tip,you know, because I'm going to
tell you Tina is.
She's a smart, smart,intelligent, anointed powerhouse
.
She can preach.
She probably pretty better thanI can.
I know she can.
(19:49):
The girl could throw that outand we'll pray that and real,
for real.
And we'll pray the house now,for real, for real.
We'll pray the house now.
So I ain't afraid to be like,okay, baby, he did it here.
Go, go, go, go, dude, do you,baby, do it?
Yes, and we've got to get moremen, that's not afraid.
You know, because I thinksometimes you know, we get
(20:09):
afraid of what they can dobecause they're, because they're
female you know, no, no, no,that's that's, oh, that's old
gospel.
That's what I'm going to say.
Gospel, that's old religion,you know.
I like to say it's an oldreligion, old religious mindset,
that you know that that womencan't, they got to take the
backseat to us men, and that'snot.
I'm telling you that it is notthe way God created it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
He didn't design it that way Now we are to lead.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I get that.
Yes, men, we are to lead, andour wives they know that, and my
wife she knows, she wants me tolead my house, yeah, you know.
So if there ever a problem thatthe, that, the, the, the wife
is trying to lead more than youmay, want to take a look at that
, you know, because it's kind ofout of order a little bit and
us men we got to take ourrightful place in our home, yeah
(20:58):
, and lead effectively.
That's the problem Leadeffectively.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
That's the problem and and and.
When we can't.
One thing I love about my wifeis like you said, she.
She's a woman who knows how toinfluence me without
embarrassing me Like she will ifI'm talking reckless and she
like okay, this, this, she won'tsay nothing, but let us get in
(21:25):
the car.
She like, she like, look Nowyou know, you need to clean that
up and I and I respect thatbecause she knows she's like
look, I'm, I'm, I'm.
I'm going to make sure you sayface yeah, Because I don't need
us out here reckless because,everything you do is a witness.
(21:47):
Yes, it is, yes, it is.
Everything you do is a witness.
You can't, you can't, bebickering in public in the name
of being one hundred.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
You better come on with it.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
We just going.
We, you can't be arguing witheach other in public in the name
of keeping it 100.
No, you keep that at home.
Yes, but but um, another thingthat I love is that, um, she I
don't even know how to say it,but it's like when I'm not
(22:17):
performing in an area that Ishould be, or, I'll say it this
way, when I'm not leading in anarea that I should lead in.
Take our finances, for instance.
Like I was very not good withthe finances but she forced me
to be because she like, look,I'm not taking this over, you
(22:37):
gon' figure this out, you gon'clean this up.
And and it wasn't like ademanding thing, it was like
babe, we gon' be struggling ifyou don't get it together,
because I'm not going to takethis from you.
I believe God wants to to workthrough you in this area.
She says I don't.
She's like finances brings meanxiety.
When I got to pay the bills,when I got to balance the
(23:00):
checkbook, when I got to do all,she said that brings me anxiety
and I'm okay letting you dealwith that.
Even if you're making some poordecisions, I'm going to trust
God that you can get the righthelp and learn how to do this
and learn how to.
And there were some seasonswhere we just didn't have it and
she was just like babe, I'mpraying, I'm praying, I'm gonna
(23:24):
help where I can and I'm gonnacommunicate what I need, but
you're gonna have to lead inthis area.
And, dude, that forced me togrow up so fast in the area of
finances Like it legit, like shewouldn't.
She wouldn't be like you paytithes, or she wouldn't be like
(23:45):
where the money going, or shewouldn't be like it's the bills
paid.
What she would do if I missedthe bill and the pass-due notice
come and I just wanna make sureyou got this because it came
today you just wanna make sureyou got that and she'll leave.
Oh crap, let me go and pay thesebills.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
But you think about it.
Think about it, pat.
It's a teaching moment man itis.
It's a very teaching moment, butI feel like, as men, we could
take if that would have went adifferent way, where why ain't
you paying me?
I'm so tired of you paying andyou ain't doing it on time.
And it's the same message,though.
It's the same message, you seewhat I'm saying, but we will
(24:27):
receive that in a probablydifferent fashion.
Girl, you coming at me likethat I've been, you know, hold
on, take care of yourself andyou do it there, that's real
talk, hey that's real talk.
But we allow that teachingmoment.
But that's wisdom, you know,that our spouses have through
the Holy Spirit, you know.
(24:47):
And your wife has a propheticcall in her life too.
Yeah, so she sees some things,she sees a lot that I don't bro.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I just don't, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So and if I don't take heed?
Speaker 1 (25:00):
we messed up.
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you saidthat, because it's not that I'm
trying to be less of a man.
I just know she sees stuff thatI don't see.
So I got to, I got to, I got totake heed to it.
Yeah, she ain't calling theshots, she giving me insight.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Insight yes, it is, and she like babe and I know
like.
Ok.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I don't listen to this.
I'm going to learn the hard wayand we have to understand that,
as men, like our wives, havedifferent callings and different
anointings, my wife's level ofdiscernment is out of this world
.
Like my wife, like, if I'mdoing something, I ain't got.
No, she like look the Lord's.
I've been having these dreams.
Baby, You're going to have to.
(25:48):
This is how the Lord would do.
I was flirting with temptation.
You know how you, you, you pushthe envelope.
I ain't all the way there.
But I'm you know, it's enough towhere I know I shouldn't be
entertaining some stuff and mywife, the Lord would speak to my
(26:11):
wife and my wife was she's soslick with it and it's not
manipulative because she reallydidn't under, she just knew
something was off.
She said here's somethingthat's off.
And I had this dream.
I had this dream and she tellme the dream Now one, I could
talk the dream away, like Icould just be like look you
reading into it, this is what it.
(26:31):
But the Lord will give me theinterpretation.
You know what I'm showing herright Lord, like, yeah, so if
you don't get it together, itain't going to be no dream.
She going to see exactly whatit is.
And I would be like all right,babe, we need to pray Because
I'm struggling.
(26:51):
And this is where I'mstruggling and she and the
reason I do.
It didn't happen overnightBecause early in our marriage I
would try to man up, yeah, yeahand take it on and, all right,
I'm going to pull myself and mywife.
After my therapy session and mylast therapy session, my
therapist brought my wife in tothe session.
(27:12):
He was like all right, wewrapping this up, harold is, you
know he's doing good, but Iwant to bring you in so that you
know the signs and that youknow what to look for the red
flags, whatever when the Lord'sspeaking about some talk.
And so he brought her in and mytherapist said is there
anything you want to tell Haroldthat will help safeguard him in
(27:34):
this marriage?
And she said.
She said, babe, when you'rebeing tempted and when you're on
the edge, don't go it alone.
Let me in.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Let me in.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
She said I'm not gonna judge you, I'm not gonna
go telling everybody yourbusiness, but we're gonna come
together as one and we're gonnafight that thing together.
And I was just like the levelof weight that that took off for
me and we joke about it now andwe could be in a situation like
(28:09):
baby, you better hold your boyaccountable.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
She be like look, but it didn't get there overnight.
We had to build that.
We had to build that and thatlevel of trust yeah, yeah,
bringing it full circle thatlevel of trust that we have with
each other and we're able togive that to other people, cause
(28:38):
we know how to build that now.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
And those.
You got a lot of teachingmoments in there, man, where we
go through things not just forourselves but for other people,
and I feel like our marriageit's designed to be able to help
somebody else Absolutely.
So I look at it like when we gothrough something, it's not
always, oh, you gettingchastised by God and you do sin
(29:03):
and this, and that God's tryingto teach you something.
He's trying to teach yousomething through it, and when
he teaches us through it, heallows us to be able to be
effective to other couples, toother people, to other men, just
like right now.
We've got situations that wedone been through that.
(29:23):
Now we can look back and belike okay, now I see it.
Now my brother.
Now, bro, I done, been there,done that, here you go.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Listen, because when you've gone through it it's like
this suck this ain't gonna work, she ain't gonna trust me?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
she ain't gonna, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And but looking back on it, you're absolutely 100%
right.
It's designed in a way thatwill help other people If we
trust God enough to share it.
Some people so embarrassedabout what they went through
that they don't allow God to getthe glory from it.
(30:00):
It's like look, you made it.
Like you made it.
You made it.
I love it.
I remember my wife.
She was like she's like, if youever leave me, and then she
threatened and I said look, pay,I ain't work too hard to start
over with somebody else.
Yeah 100.
(30:22):
I said we didn't put in too muchwork to start over with
somebody else.
Yes, I ain't gonna get ain't.
No way I'm gonna get that madthat I'm gonna start over with
somebody else, come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That just don't make no sense.
We didn't put in too much time,they got through too much stuff
and then got to know each othertoo well to start over.
Now and then too.
Man, I'm not trying to give uphalf Come listen.
Look y'all jokers man y'all bemessing around too much.
I'm not trying to give up half.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I'm like we gonna work through this.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I told Tim baby, we gonna work this out at all costs
.
So we got a man up as men, wegot a man up number one.
So look, when we're down andyou know you wrong, we got to
admit it, confess that thing nowand then work through the
process.
Come on, it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
It is, it's worth it, and I'll wrap up with this.
I was listening to Jay Monte.
He's a rapper Christian rapperand he was, and one of his songs
it was called Free Me and hewas talking about how his wife
(31:39):
he and his wife was having someissues and he had just signed a
major record deal or whateverand he was going through a
divorce and so he was putting iton social media.
They went to court and got it.
Fine, he was celebrating and hesaid people was getting behind
them and said yeah, we glad yougot out of that situation so the
Lord can really use you.
And he got convicted because hewas like before I was even
(32:06):
saved, she was the one who wasdown for me when I ain't have
nowhere to stay.
I was sleeping on her couch.
When we had our kids, one ofthem married, she was the one
working two jobs and now I thinkI could do a little better.
And he was like he said it tookme getting at the end of myself
(32:33):
to realize my part, that Iplayed in that and now I have to
start over.
And he, like man, I would havenever.
If I would have known what Iknow now, I would have never
went through with that, butsometimes it seems like the
easiest route and I never wannadiscount any horrendous
(32:57):
situation that deserves andevery right to be out of that.
But when you actually thispodcast is do the work, and when
you do the work it works.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It does, it does, it works and it's not perfect.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It's not without flaws or anything, but it's
better.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I look at it, man.
Everything is designed to beworked out.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Everything, everything is designed to be
worked out.
It's up to us to make thechoice if we're gonna work it
out or some stuff.
You worked it out, you tried it, it ain't just not happening.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
But you gotta do the work through the process to get
there To figure out if it'sgonna work out or not.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I had one brother.
He was like man, I'm gonna geta pre-numptual agreement, we
gonna before I get married.
I ain't trying.
And I'm thinking to myself I'mlike bro, you literally okay if
it don't work out.
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
If it don't work out.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I gotta plan B and I feel like, as brothers, we try
to.
It is men, it's a man thing.
We want that plan B Cause I dothat work.
I'm saying, okay, if I don'tsell that, I got plan B, this
gonna work, I'm gonna go tothat'll work.
But sometimes you can't have aplan B like that.
Come on and I feel likemarriage is designed for you.
(34:23):
If that's the one, you didn'tsupposed to been to pray to God
about it and you know she theone, she the one.
But that production, theagreements and all that, if it
don't work out, you settingyourself up.
Setting yourself up.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, setting you up, I'll say this, man when it
comes to marriage and when itcomes to you know, knowing each
other, and building that thingand being there it's.
(35:02):
I think of the scriptures whereit says everything you say,
everything is to be worked out.
I think of the scripture wherethe Lord says let us reason
together.
Even God wants to work somestuff out with us.
I think of the scriptures whereit says if you disagree with
(35:22):
your brother, go to your brother, talk it out with him.
If it don't work, grab anotherbrother, talk it out with him
again.
If that don't work, grab thewhole community and talk it out
again.
And so the scripture is repletewith examples of hey, y'all, we
got to figure this out.
(35:42):
I was figured out.
Paul right into the differentchurches look, y'all, I've been
hearing some stuff.
We got to get this together andfigure it out.
Paul with Barnabas and Silas.
He like look, he can't comewith me.
Barnabas like hey, man, come on, bring him, bring him, bring
Peter with you.
Paul like nah, man, I ain'tbringing that joker with me
(36:04):
because last time he bailed onme and he and Barnabas had to
figure it out.
And Barnabas is like hey, he'llroll with me then.
You know what I'm saying.
And Paul like let him roll withyou then.
And I think about Paul and Peter.
Peter.
He want to be with the Jewswhen the Jews is around.
(36:25):
He want to be with the Gentileswhen the Gentiles is around.
And Paul called them on it.
Paul's like look, bro, we gotto figure this out because you,
being two-faced, you want to bewith the Gentiles when the Jews
ain't looking and you want to bewith the Jews when they come
around.
He like, look, man, we're goingto.
Let's reason to, let's get thisfigured out.
And I feel like so many timeswe quick the right people off.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, man, instead of figuring it out Instead of
figuring it out.
And I use that a lot in a lotof my sessions, because in
counseling, because what happensis when I say figure it out,
figuring it out may be callingit quits in certain situations,
or figuring it out means itworked out the way it's supposed
(37:08):
to work out, but we get sooften where we'll table it and
not come back to it.
You know you can figure it out.
You table the situation,whatever that situation is, but
you never dealt with it.
It's like boom, it's there, youknow it's there.
So therefore, you did all of asudden having these issues keep
coming around to it, but youain't figured it out.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So you kind of figure that thing out, man.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
And you know so.
That's important in marriage.
Man Don't table it and leave itthere.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, you know figure it out, figure that thing out,
do the work, do the work.
I love that.
I think that's important, man,and we'll write right up there.
Don't table it, do the work.
And that's with anything Ithink of.
You know, when you got twopeople that bring trauma to the
relationship, don't table thattrauma.
Do the work.
You may not be ready right now,but do the work.
(37:58):
When you got an argument, causewe, we, we, we built those walls
to where, okay, this is offlimits.
You know, your mom, mymother-in-law, she off limits.
No, let's figure this out.
How are we going to coexist onThanksgiving without going at
each other?
Let's figure this out, becausethe solution might be they got
(38:23):
to come to us, we can't go tothem.
Yeah, the solution might beokay, we need to take a break
from them all together.
But let's figure it out so thatwe're on the same page and we
come to an understanding and notjust, okay, we just not going
to talk about that and how shetalking and how she doing.
And you know, and my wife and I, she, my dad was a dude.
(38:48):
He just said some off to allour stuff.
My dad was dude, was crazy, mywife had just had a baby and my
dad was like you don't lose thatbaby, wait anytime soon.
And she immediately looked atme and I was just like, yeah,
(39:11):
hey, what mom cook man.
Well, and so she ain't sayingnothing.
But when we got back to ourroom she was like you need to
talk to your dad.
And I was like well, I'm a, I'ma table, that, and we gon
figure it out.
And then the next time we camearound she was like no, no, no,
no, no, no, I'm not going overthere until you talk to him,
(39:31):
because it's only so much I canhandle with his jabs.
And if it's innocent and it'soblivious to him, then we, you
know, we need to figure that out, but we need to say something.
No, no, no, no.
You need to say something,especially your daddy.
And so I you know, me and my dadsitting on the porch with our
dunk and coffee and I'm like dadyou know, my wife really didn't
(39:56):
appreciate, you know, beingcalled fat and so many words,
and especially after just, youknow, giving it, and he, aw, man
, she be all right.
No, no, dad, she she's not allright.
And I'm like dad, you know, Iasked the Holy spirit to help me
(40:18):
articulate it to my father in away that was both honoring and
receptive.
And so the Lord reminded me ofa situation that happened at
church, with some church hurt,and I said, dad, you remember
when, uh, when the man we weredoing, we were, uh, the man was
getting together, having a man'smeeting, and uh, somebody
(40:43):
suggested that you, you know,have one of the parts in the in
the service.
And uh, one of the otherbrothers said, oh well, you know
, mcgee can't read that.
Well, we don't want him gettingup on there stumbling over
words and stuff.
And he, oh, yeah, yeah, I can'tbelieve.
He said that, I can't believethat that brother know that one
Christ life.
And I was like dad, that's kindof how she felt in this
(41:05):
situation Like you, you, youstab during the way.
That was kind of like little,little shady.
And he was like oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh yeah, I didn't even
mean it like that.
I was just trying to.
You know, talk to the younglady, you know, and you know how
we joking our fan.
I'm like bruh, she in you inlaw, she ain't in like she
(41:28):
didn't grow up in our household,I mean my dad.
We grew up in a relationship, wea Johnny Justin, yeah, hey, boy
, if you don't get your dad, youdon't get your old, and that's
how we buzz.
Her dad would never talk to herthat way.
You know, my dad, we, all men,it was just all boys and my dad,
I mean my mom, all boys so andI was like dad, like, but she
(41:48):
didn't take it like that, shetook it like you took it when
the men was making fun of youand your speech and your reading
and stuff.
And he like, okay, okay, so, oh, I'm going to apologize to her
when she come back over.
I'm like I'm going to bring herbecause she won't come.
I'm going to bring her home.
And my dad, he apologized, yeah, and and and.
But I had to.
To your point, if I had neverfigured that out, my wife would
(42:11):
have never went back over to myparents' house and I would.
You know what I would have did?
I would, I would have droppedher off at her parents and I
would have slid over to mine bymyself.
Yeah, and I would have learnedhow to live without ever dealing
with the issue.
But just that would have becameour new normal.
Our new normal would have beenlike well, you know my wife
(42:32):
don't deal with y'all.
That would have been normal.
Yeah, you know your funnyacting wife, when she ready to
come over, tell her she welcome.
But but it was on me and on usto figure that out, and that's
good.
And that's why I said, bro,that that's a gym.
We got to not let we can'ttable things and never come back
(42:53):
to it, because if we don't, wemake that our normal and wonder
why things are the way that theyare Because we never went back
to it.
So, bro, I appreciate you.
Man, man, listen, you got somuch wisdom and gems, bro.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
You, you, what you talking about, bro.
I appreciate being here.
You doing some things, man, andthis is a platform for this,
you know.
I appreciate it's a need, it'sa need for it.
You know, and I pray blessingsover you and your household,
your family, your ministry whatGod is doing?
Yeah, some open doors.
I believe God opened some doors.
(43:28):
Come on, just going to blowthings wide open for your family
, for you and for your family,man.
So God bless you.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Man, yeah, man.
But look, man, this ain't goingto be the last time you know
where I live in.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
This is not going to be the last time we have AP
three on witness man.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And so, look, man, I appreciate you, I love you and I
want to say, man, god bless youand inspire whole ministries in
the quarter household man, Love, love, All right bro.
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