Alice In Wonderland Can Teach Us Something About Our Addiction

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Through The Looking Glass is a children's story that is a metaphor about growing up with addiction. 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,

(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but

(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.

(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
I don't know how many The storyis one where it's about Alice,

(01:44):
who's a little girl who entersinto a fantasy world by stepping
through a mirror in her room.
And everything is reversed.
And everything works in kind ofillogical ways.
And the whole world is based ona chess set.

(02:07):
And the whole world is based onthat.
And she meets characters alongthe way, you know, Humpty
Dumpty, Tweedledee andTweedledum, and the different
queen, the red queen and thewhite queen.
And there's a lot of nonsense init, a lot of craziness that goes

(02:27):
on.
The whole...
Jabberwocky thing and she youknow it's it's different it's
different things that she has totry to understand and they don't
make a lot of sense and she's ashe's a little girl so her
understanding of the world isbased on that not being an adult
and so there's a lot of kind ofmetaphors and symbolism for

(02:48):
adulthood and the transition ofthat and that's kind of what
it's about.
Uh, but it, you know, in termsof like how we exist in the
world of addiction, to me, itwas kind of interesting.
It was like, that's what it'slike being an addict is like
everything's reversed.
And, um, it's, we go into thisfantasy world where up is down,

(03:10):
right is wrong.
Black is white, you know, lightis dark.
And, um, Everything getsconfused.
And so it's kind of like throughthe looking glass.
That's what happens when peopleend up getting involved in the
destruction, their ownself-destruction is.
It's like an upside down world.
And so I always...

(03:31):
Whenever I saw the movie Alicein Wonderland, or I read the
book when I was a kid, and to meit was always interesting that
everything was backwards.
It's all backwards.
So maybe there's hope, if I canget out of this craziness, that
the backwards world willbecome...
the right side world and uh ifyou grew up in a house like i

(03:54):
did with alcoholic parents umeverything is upside down
everything is backwards andconfusing and you know your your
reality is different from whatyou're seeing all the other
realities uh out there and theexamples that we see on
television um when we're growingup or at least back in the day
when i was a kid that it was notwhat it seemed like i'm seeing

(04:16):
this world in this televisionshow that doesn't really exist
in my reality.
So it was like through thelooking glass and to me, looking
through the screen of atelevision.
And back then we had glasstubes, right?
It was a cathode ray tube TV.
So you could tap on it.
It was like glass.
It was interesting because to meit was, I always thought as a
kid, it was like, oh, there'sthis other world out there that

(04:39):
is like the Alice in Wonderlandthrough the looking glass.
This is the looking glass.
The television tube is thelooking glass.
And so it was always interestingto see these realities that
didn't exist in my reality.
You know, mom was never drunk.
on the Brady Bunch or Leave itto Beaver or Father Knows Best

(05:00):
like nobody drank nobody smokedthey just didn't it wasn't a
thing the only the only thingthat actually came close to that
was on the Andy Griffith showthere was Otis and Otis was the
town drunk on the old show andhe was always seen as this
lovable character who wasinnocent and harmless and he

(05:22):
self-regulated like he would goout and drink but he never
caused problems and then hewould bring himself into the
sheriff's office and he wouldput himself in a cell and close
the door so he could sleep itoff and it was kind of like oh
that's Otis which to me was kindof funny because drunkenness was
always like weird behavior andfighting erratic explosive

(05:48):
behavior and fighting in myhouse and I'm watching it on TV
and these shows in the 60s I'mwatching these shows on TV where
Otis is like a lovable characterand I'm like where's that guy
you know I mean I never saw thatin real life that didn't happen
and probably the biggest insultof all was when in the early 70s

(06:11):
there was a movie that came outNo, no, I'm sorry.
It was the late 70s where amovie came out called Arthur.
And it was a story about a guy,this English guy, who was this
very likable, cheerful, alwayslaughing and enjoying life guy
who was a severe alcoholic.

(06:31):
And that was the wholestoryline.
And he met a woman, LizaMinnelli, who becomes his
girlfriend.
And he's super wealthy.
And he has a manservant butlerguy.
guy who's with him all the timeand taking care of him but the
whole drunken shtick that he hadwas he would walk around and he

(06:52):
would enjoy life and he wasdrunk all the time and it was
accepted it was like well he'she's harmless and yeah and he's
you know slurred speech andstumbling around and but it was
like that every day and I'mwatching that and again it's
like through the looking glassI'm like I'm living a different
reality than that um You know,my dad's like screaming at me

(07:16):
and swearing at me and my mom'slike checked out and acting, you
know, dysregulated.
And it was like, this is notreality.
So the whole idea of likewhatever you're growing up with
and if you like, you know, yougrew up in a house where there
was addiction and abusive stuffgoing on.

(07:37):
And then you see outside of yourhouse, there is a completely
different reality that manypeople that you see, not
everybody, there were somepeople that had the same thing
going on, of course, but many ofthe people that you're
interacting with, they have noidea what that's like and they
can't relate to it.
And so you can't relate to themand it becomes isolating.

(07:58):
And it became particularlydifficult when there was tragedy
in my life.
at a young age uh you knowbefore i was 18 and and there
would be a horrible tragedy thatoccurred and the way it was
dealt with in the alcoholic homeis that it's ignored or it's the

(08:18):
blame for it is put on uhmisplaced onto other people so
um you know and and then youstart acting out in ways to try
to get attention because you'renot getting attention you're
getting negative attention sothat's where you think attention
is and so you start acting outAnd and that's the call for
attention in these emotionaltimes.
And so if you grew up in a housewhere there was like real

(08:42):
tragedies going on, mom and dadare drunk or they're getting
high on drugs or whatever, andthat's your reality, man, that's
bad.
Like that's abuse.
And so through the looking glassreality of you looking from from
your reality.
like Alice in her house, andthen she stepped through the
mirror, she would step into analternate reality.

(09:04):
And it can make you feel verydisplaced, very almost like you
don't belong, a dissociativekind of experience where you
just don't fit with this,whatever it is.
And it's uncomfortable, right?
So that drives a lot of thediscontent, which results in the

(09:26):
use of drugs and alcohol tocope.
And so what do you do whenyou're uncomfortable and you're,
you know, when you'reexperiencing that as a kid, if
you were a drinker or did drugsas a kid, you know, the trap
that occurs.
I mean, it did for me, it was ahuge trap.
And the more I drank as a kidand I started drinking when I

(09:49):
was 10, the worse it is becauseyou started so early and you
used it as an escape.
and then it resulted in notbeing able to understand or
engage in other copingmechanisms and it's those
missing coping mechanisms thatcan really get you so that's the

(10:10):
one that works and you depend onit now we you know my
anecdotally we you know alcoholin particular that's one that
takes you know 20 years to getto the point where you're just
severely debilitated withalcoholism drugs not not so Not
so slow.
It's much faster with drugs.
You can't be doing cocaine,crystal meth, heroin, something

(10:33):
like that.
You're not going to do that for20 years.
You're going to do that for afew months and you're at the
20-year mark as far as addictiveoutcomes with destruction.
It doesn't take long.
But...
In any case, if you started withalcohol, and I'm just going to
keep it with alcohol today.
If you started with alcohol andyou were 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

(10:55):
years old, 10 years in, you're20 or 21 or 22 or 23 or 24.
So by the time you get to thatage of 24, you are 10 years in
on your addiction.
At 34, you're 20 years in.
Most of the people that I dealwith who have alcohol problems

(11:16):
are in their 40s into their 60sbecause that's 20 years, right?
You start drinking when you'rein high school, 16, 17, 18, or
in college.
By the time you get to 41 or 42or 45 or 50, you've spent 20
years drinking.
Now, I want to be clear.
I'm not talking about drinkingevery day.

(11:37):
You know, the Arthur thing whereyou're stumbling around and
fumbling and drinking to, youknow, blackout multiple times a
week.
You don't start out that way.
That's not how this happens.
You start off slower.
So if you are at that pointwhere you're 20 years old and

(11:58):
you've been drinking for 10years, by the time you get to 10
years in, you're drinkingprobably multiple times a week
and much more than everybodyelse you know for the most part.
So by the time you get to 15years in, yeah, it's creeping in
pretty bad.
And you get to the 20-year mark,you're a hot mess, honestly.
So getting to where it's at tothat point, it's bad.

UNKNOWN (12:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
So through the looking glass, the realities
that you see, looking atfriendly people, happy families,
close-knit relationships, intactfamilies, intact marriages of
moms and dads, and people thatactually sit down and eat a meal
together and actually talk toeach other.
They're not hiding.

(12:44):
They're not running away.
There's no craziness going on.
And so your understanding ofreality is what Alice
experienced earlier.
by going through the lookingglass.
Everything is upside down.
It's backwards.
That's kind of the reality thatother people are looking at you
and they don't recognize thatbecause they haven't walked
through that looking glass intoyour world.

(13:08):
So it's the two sides.
Your side, you're in what couldbe perceived as an alternate
reality for everybody elsebecause there's craziness and
chaos going on withdysregulated, dysfunctional
people.
But that's your everydayexperience.
For them, they live theopposite.
So they'd have to come into yourworld through their version of

(13:30):
the looking glass to see theopposite day that's going on in
your reality for them.
And they don't do that, do they?
That's an issue.
Right.
They don't really understandwhat it's like to come home and
find your mom passed out on thecouch or her heavy tongue

(13:50):
slurred speech, boozy breath,you know, coming at you and mad
or.
upset about something that shemade up in her head or your
dad's you know screaming at yourbeating you or whatever's going
on that they don't know whatthat's like and so you're not
going to get a lot of empathy orsympathy or understanding from

(14:11):
the person who has no concept ofwhat that's like and so the
reaction that people have whenthey experience that version of
reality is they tend to hide itand you don't have people coming
over to your house because Youdon't want to have your friends
come in and see that, right?
So they're going to step out oftheir reality through the

(14:32):
looking glass into your upsidedown world.
You don't want them to see that.
And it's hard to understand.
And, you know, also on top ofthat, who's to blame for that?
You know, it's like, this iswhat I have and I don't like
this.
I'm the kid who's living inthat.

(14:52):
I don't like this.
Well, who's to blame for that?
Well, the parents are, butyou're a child, so you can't
process it that way.
So you tend to take on the blameyourself.
So if I was a better kid, thiswouldn't be happening or I'll do
better.
So many, many times people whocome from those homes are
overachievers.

(15:13):
They have unbelievably highexpectations of themselves
because they're trying to provethat the reality their worth
they're trying to prove that tothemselves and to their parents
even if their parents aren'teven they don't care they're not
checked in at that point so theybecome overachievers others

(15:34):
become those who act out andthey start being destructive to
get attention and something fromthe relationship so it depends
on which I guess which route youtook so the reality of it is
that It's difficult to navigatethrough a dysfunctional home.
And it's very difficult to comeout of it without perfectionism

(15:56):
and procrastination and socialdistrust of others.
So it's difficult to formrelationships.
And when you do get intorelationships, you're too harsh
on yourself.
You keep thinking the person isgoing to abandon you.
And so then you try to Cuttingthat off early by abandoning

(16:20):
them and saying that you're notgood enough and why are you with
me and all that kind of stuff.
And then when the person doessay, well, okay, you know what?
Maybe you're right.
Maybe I do need to move on.
Then you get hysterical andupset because the person's
threatening to leave.
All this stuff that goes on fromthat.
And you need to recognize that,that it's not normal functioning

(16:41):
and it's not normalself-awareness and...
The ability to see those thingsin yourself that are actually
good have been perhaps distortedand or lost, even though they
actually are there.
Many people that I've run into,a lot of them who live in those

(17:02):
environments, grew up in thoseenvironments, are charming,
nice, compassionate people thathave very low self-esteem.
And so they don't see thosepositive traits in themselves.
But they do demonstrate them allthe time on a regular basis.
So they are the ones who willhelp and are sensitized to

(17:24):
others' needs.
They are people pleasers.
And they will extend themselvesin ways that others won't.
So they'll be giving of theirtime or their resources.
And it's a wonderful thing, butit comes from a very dark place.
And so it's not healthy for theperson who's giving.

(17:45):
So if you grew up in a houselike that and that was your
experience and your takeaway wasthat you were trying to be a
good person to everybody aroundyou, all you're going to do is
just burn yourself out in theprocess.
And you're never going to getthe thing that you're looking
for by doing that, which is thefeeling of an increased

(18:06):
self-esteem.
Because it doesn't matter howmany times people say thank you
for things.
You can't say you're welcome andyou kind of push off the thank
you part because you're going tojust automatically focus on what
you didn't do above and beyondwhat you've already done.
It's never going to be goodenough.
So you can't.
It starts eroding yourself-esteem.

(18:28):
If the goal is to make yourself-esteem higher, it's not
going to happen.
So there are many things thatcan happen to people when they
grow up in a home with analcoholic or a drug addict
parent that makes life verydifficult.
And that's why it's so importantto work on those things.
And so if you're in recovery oryou're trying to get into
recovery, you're listening tothis and you're really

(18:49):
struggling with the idea ofrecovery and trying to figure
out how to get there or evenstart, you really need to do a
self-assessment, if you will,just like the words that I'm
using today to describe thepeople that grow up in these
homes, if you're one of thoseand you have addiction, you're
doing two things.

(19:10):
You're trying to eliminate theexperience that you had as a
child and to make it somethingthat it wasn't, which is
pleasant or good or better.
It wasn't.
It was an S show.
It was a mess, man.
It was bad.
And the acceptance of that, andthere's nothing you can do about

(19:30):
it, That's one thing, but you'retrying to get rid of that.
And so you do that by becoming,and I've said this in another
podcast about being the socialhandyman.
You're trying to fix everybodyelse to fix yourself.
So that's very destructive.
It will end up destroying you.
And you're not going to get anysatisfaction from it or get any

(19:50):
better from it.
And the second thing you'redoing is you're using chemicals
to alter your understanding ofself and to change the reality
that you have.
about the discomfort you feelbecause you didn't have.
Like, I didn't have the family.
I didn't have the parents thatwere healthy and good.
And so you're trying to drinkthat discomfort away.

(20:11):
And again, because I'm talkingabout alcohol today, it's that.
And of course, you could bedoing drugs, too, or
exclusively, whatever.
But you're trying to get rid ofthe discomfort of the crappy
situation you got into.

UNKNOWN (20:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
See, and that's what the enemy wants you to do.
It just wants to take away yourself-esteem, wants to destroy
any sense of good that you haveabout yourself.
And so when it's able to dothat, when the enemy is able to
do that, it eliminates whateverself-esteem you have and any
drive to improve or get betteror seek out more.

(20:47):
people that will make youactually feel like you're in a
safe place and so it cuts offrelationships and isolation
happens and then you use moreand more of the chemical to get
rid of that discomfort and theneventually it's going to kill
you so the idea that you're abad person or you're not worthy

(21:07):
of of um goodness orrelationships or kindness or
compassion is a lie.
And you're not a bad person.
You just grew up in a home thatthings just went really wrong.
No amount of chemicals alteringyour brain are ever going to
make that go away.

(21:28):
That's your reality.
So the entrance into repairingthe self-esteem yourself is the
working on healing that.
Now, we've talked about this indifferent podcasts about how do
you get to the healing portionof this because that's the

(21:48):
opposite of addiction ishealing.
So how do you get to thathealing portion?
And you do that throughcompassionate forgiveness of
others for their mistakes.
If you had an alcoholic motherlike I did, my mother died when
I was like 28 or 29, I think.
It's difficult to...
extend compassion to somebodybecause you think, oh, well,

(22:11):
they're gone.
So how am I supposed to do that?
Well, you're carrying aroundthat person in your mind and
your heart.
They're living there.
And they're with you all thetime.
And the feelings attached tothose relationships, they never
go away.
I'm 63 years old.
I still think about therelationships of the people that
are gone in my life.
And a lot of them are dead.

(22:32):
And they're still in my head andin my heart.
So the compassion of forgivenessis something that I'm getting
rid of my anger towards thatperson, whether they're existing
on this planet or not.
It doesn't matter because thedamage that's being done by
those memories is the damagethat's going on inside of me.
And I don't want that tocontinue.

(22:54):
So if you're trapped in thisproblem of I grew up in a
dysfunctional family and now Idrink because I'm trying to get
rid of the discomfort and thesepeople are never going to
apologize.
They're never going to changebecause they're dead or they
just won't.
Either way, it doesn't matter.
You have to forgive them.
because you're going to let goof that anger that you're

(23:15):
feeling towards that person,because that ultimately is what
forgiveness is.
It's not forgetting the event orthe series of events or the
disappointments or whatever thatoccurred in your life, but it's
getting rid of the anger thatyou feel towards that person.
And there's an incredible amountof freedom in that.
You know, if we talk aboutopposites, that's the opposite

(23:36):
of what you've been living yourwhole life.
If you think about it, if yougrew up in that environment,
that is the opposite.
So Doing something that'sdifferent, that alters in a
positive way your life.
You can do that.
You have the power to do that.
So if you are listening to thisand you are trapped in alcoholic

(23:56):
addiction behaviors and you knowwhat?
Freedom is through workingthrough your discomfort and
recognizing it and being able towork on identifying what it is
and what your part was and whattheir part was.
Being able to forgive bothyourself and the other person
for their wrongdoing.

(24:17):
And this is what I do with myclients every day.
I'm doing this with them.
Working towards thatcompassionate forgiveness so
that they can heal.
Not the person that did thesethings, but that they can heal.
And it's really hard.
I'm not going to lie.
It's really hard.
And it's like the scripturesays, you know, how many times
must we forgive?

(24:39):
Seven times?
Six times?
How about seven times seventy?
The times that it takes for usto be able to flush out of our
system that painful anger thatwe feel that makes us so
uncomfortable.
A better life is out there foryou if you can do that and you
can work on that.
Trust me.
And when you do finally do itand you do it honestly, and

(25:03):
maybe continuously for a while,the discomfort lessens.
It doesn't go away immediately,but it lessens.
And I've heard people talkabout, you know, I was so angry
at him, my father, because hedid these horrible things to me
when I was a kid.
And I'm like, okay, but what doyou want to do about it now?

(25:23):
Well, they can't because thefather doesn't care or he's dead
or he can't find him orwhatever.
And it's like, okay, well, thenyou're going to just carry
around anger and hate in yourheart all the time.
Is that really what you want todo?
And ultimately, the answer isno.
So growing up through thelooking glass at realities that
didn't exist for you doesn'tmean they can't be created by

(25:45):
you later.
And so if you really want toknow if you've gotten there,
it's the idea of I've steppedthrough the looking glass
myself.
But I learned through thesemetaphors and these strange
things what it's like to be afunctional person.
And like Alice, who learnedabout the realities of her

(26:08):
childhood and what it would belike to be an adult, she did
that.
And you can do that too.
Well, that's this episode of DocShock, your Dixon lifeguard.
If you have enjoyed thisepisode, please subscribe, like,
and send me a comment or two.
And if you have questions forme, you can reach out to me

(26:29):
through my website,wellspringmindbody.com on the
interweb and ask me questions.
If you'd like to be on the show,I'd love to have guests.
I'd love you to tell your story,man.
Tell your story of yourrecovery.
They're very inspiring when wehear them But you know what?
If you're not in that place andyou're struggling, please go get

(26:50):
help.
Go to rehab.
Go find a counselor.
Do something, man.
Go to a meeting.
Walk into the rooms.
Tell your story.
Get a sponsor.
Do whatever you have to becausespending your life to save your
addiction is crazy.
So until the next time, this isDoc Jock saying, see ya.