Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Time again for Doc
Shock, your Addiction Lifeguard
Podcast.
I am Dr.
Jockey Burkert, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocShock, Your Addiction Life
(00:21):
Guard, the Addiction RecoveryPodcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes, but
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
(00:42):
please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
(01:03):
So let's keep it in that light,alright?
Have a good time, learnsomething, and then get the real
help that you need from aprofessional.
Hello again, this is DocJacques, and I wanted to speak
(01:28):
to you about what happens whenyou get to the end of your rope.
Kind of you're at the end ofwhat you feel like you can take.
So if you're listening to thisand you've picked this topic
based on the title of the topicor the uh podcast, you're
probably uh you're probablyexhausted.
Not just tired.
(01:49):
You've gotten to the point whereyou're exhausted.
You know, uh we use and we gethigh because we think that's the
answer to the things, and itcertainly is like an action step
you're taking to uh to deal withyour problems, absolutely.
But now it's just exhausting.
And everything you're doing isexhausting because nothing's
working.
(02:10):
It it if it was working, youprobably wouldn't be listening
to this podcast, but you also uhwouldn't be concerned about
getting high or drunk orwhatever it is you're doing.
But I'm guessing you'reexhausted.
So the substance that you may beuh using may not even be working
the way it used to.
It probably isn't, because itnever really does after a while.
I mean, that was the case withuh with me and with a lot of my
(02:33):
friends getting high just to gethigh because you you didn't have
any other answer, you know, andthat's your coping mechanism for
the problem, and now you're justexhausted, it's been going on
for so long.
So how how do you deal withthat?
Um some people just continue touse until finally they just
collapse.
(02:54):
Um addiction stops deliveringthe relief long before you stop
using it, and that's the problemis you know, it's like Anthony
Keatus from Red Hot ChiliPeppers in the you know, writing
the the lyric, I'm sick and sickand tired of being sick and
tired.
But you're still using, um, andthat's that's an issue.
(03:15):
So your body, your mind, yournervous system, they get all
depleted, they're just alldepleted.
And maybe you're not quite thereyet, but maybe you are, but
that's usually where it goes.
So here's the truth about that.
You know, chronic use leads todiminishing returns and
increasing costs and effect onyou.
That's just the truth.
(03:36):
So you have to understand thatwhen you're using, you think
it's great.
And when people come in to seeme in my office and they're
first using, they they uh butthey're not at the point of
exhaustion, but they're gettingthere.
I can see it, I can hear it,they can feel it.
They're not there yet.
And those are the ones that arethe toughest to deal with
(03:57):
because they're the ones thatkeep bargaining with me about
usage.
They want to be quote unquotenormal, you know, use like their
friends who aren't ad addictedto whatever it is they're using.
But you didn't get here at thispoint because you're weak.
You got to this point becauseaddiction always takes more than
it gives.
(04:17):
And that's just a truth.
So, what do you do to deal withit?
Well, white knuckling it issometimes what some people come
up with an answer.
They just stop using long enoughto just kind of get through.
And that rope that you'rehanging on to, you know, that's
your control.
That's that's managing yoursystem symptoms, not systems,
(04:40):
your symptoms, it's managingpeople's reactions, it's
managing consequences, and youkeep trying and you're hanging
on, and it's you know, you justyou're losing, but you you know,
it's like when you're climbing arope, sometimes you start
slipping down and you you feelyourself slipping, and it's
because you're trying tomaintain control.
And symptoms and managing thosesymptoms and trying to figure
out how to get away with stilldoing what you used to do,
(05:03):
that's a real problem.
It's a constant tension.
Addiction is just constanttension.
So holding that rope tighter, itfeels like strength, but it's
actually just survival panic.
You know, you slip a little bit,you grab a little bit tighter,
and you're trying to keep that,keep that control.
And and it it just doesn't everwork.
So white knuckling it, it's notrecovery.
(05:28):
End of the rope moments arenervous system collapse.
It's not moral failure, youknow, you're not a you're not
morally weak, it's not a weakweakness of willpower.
That's not what being at the endof the rope is.
It's just your nervous system,it's just collapsing.
The adrenaline, thehypervigilance, the resentment,
the anger, all that stuff.
(05:48):
It's just got you to a point ofjust complete nervous system
collapse.
So the harder you grip thatrope, the less oxygen you have,
the less that's in you.
You can only grip tighter for solong.
So emotionally, psychologically,spiritually, you are just spent.
And that's that's many timesthat's when people come into my
(06:11):
office for help.
They've gotten to that point, orthey're about to get into that
point, and I'm getting thepleasure of witnessing them do
it.
But you know, it's funny becauseme um making that observation to
them, it never helps them.
You know, if I if I say to them,hey man, this is where you seem
to be, this is what seems to begoing on, that that doesn't
really help them.
(06:32):
Um, so I just don't I don't saythat.
But what I do is I help themwhen they're hanging on to that
rope.
I I kind of help them uhunderstand that what you're
doing is hanging on to thatrope.
You know, it's like I'm I'm notgonna I'm not gonna try to get
them to stop doing it, I'm justgonna let them know I see you
doing it.
So the the moment that you getto the end of that rope, it
(06:56):
feels so dangerous.
And there's a reason.
Um at the end of your rope, oneof three things is happening.
You've escalated your use, youemotionally are shut down, and
you're finally telling thetruth.
And that's where you're the thevery end of that rope is where
(07:18):
truth starts to creep in.
You know, you can't lie toyourself about how you
physically feel or how youemotionally feel, but you're
still kind of resisting it.
Um, so this is really the mostum difficult moment for you.
Your brain is trying to seekrelief, it's trying to trying to
get some sense of relief at anycost.
(07:40):
And that, you know, that's whythey again, that's why they end
up in my office.
They're they're seeking help.
There may they may not beaccepting it, but they're
seeking it.
And it's funny because I'll havepeople that will come in week
after week after week for forweeks or sometimes months, and
they'll keep coming in and theycome in, they come in, and it's
almost like I imagine thatthey're sitting in the chair
(08:02):
across from me with their armsfolded, like, okay, I'm here,
but I'm not gonna do anything.
So I'm just for me, it's just awaiting game, you know.
And if and if you feel likethat, you being that stubborn,
like I'm here, um, and then yougo back out and you keep using,
understand showing up is part ofit.
(08:23):
I mean, that's really I mean,you got to show up for help.
So go to meetings, go to acounselor.
You really need to go to acounselor.
Um, that's very helpful to findsomebody who is an addiction
counselor, somebody who has aspecialization, because they're
not gonna try to force you intoanything, they're gonna just sit
and wait for you, you know.
You got to come to meet them,they're not gonna try to chase
after you.
Some therapists who are nottrained in addiction would start
(08:46):
to get worked up in that andthink that I'm, you know, I must
help my client.
And they they start chasing.
And unfortunately, that's thegame that addicts play.
So they're very, very good atthe chase game.
The therapists are not so goodat it because they don't realize
they're getting sucked into agame by the addict.
And if you're in, if you'retrying to work on on recovery at
(09:09):
this point, that's when you'remost vulnerable for relapse.
Because the the moment thatyou're at the end of your rope,
you know, physically,spiritually, emotionally, um you
you're really you're veryvulnerable at real for relapse
because you you're the pressureof that and the feeling of that
feels horrible.
So again, you're gonna want toget some relief and old coping
(09:33):
mechanisms, which were the useof the drugs, or maybe you're
one of those that switches drugof choice in that moment and you
go from heroin to alcohol orfrom alcohol to weed or
something like that, um, weed tofood or shopping or gambling or
whatever.
So it if um your feelings startdriving things.
So the thinking about it in thisway, you know, if you stop, then
(09:57):
everything falls apart.
So I can't I can't stop usingsomething.
But what actually falls apart isthat illusion of control.
So it's the opposite of perhapswhat you're thinking.
Um not fighting means thatyou'll probably get there.
So addiction convinces you thatyou're letting the letting go is
(10:18):
death.
When reality it's it's thebeginning of stabilization,
letting go of control or orrelinquishing control and
letting someone else help you,right?
This is why we get into recoverygroups and we have sayings like
there's only one thing you haveto change to get clean and
(10:38):
sober.
Everything.
Or there's another one, this ismy favorite one.
Individuals don't get clean andsober, groups do, right?
And sometimes you have to dowhat other people are telling
you to do, even when you don'twant to do it.
Somebody comes into my office,they they're like, Okay, give me
instructions.
So I'll give them instructions,and they leave, and I say, you
(11:02):
know, listen to a podcast, reada book.
I definitely want you to go toat least two meetings this week.
I don't care if you do themonline or you do them in person,
I would prefer in person, butwhatever.
Like two meetings, listen to apodcast, and they leave.
And they come back the next weekand I say, So, how'd it go?
And they just kind of starttalking and I go, Well, wait a
(11:24):
minute.
Well, uh, did you did you do thehomework?
And they look at me like theydon't remember.
They do, because they wereafraid I was gonna ask, and
they're afraid that I wouldremember.
And of course I remember and Isay, Did you go to two meetings?
Well, you know, my work and uh Ihad this thing and uh you know I
was not feeling well, you know,okay, so I didn't do that.
Okay, so did you listen to apodcast?
(11:45):
Well, you know, I thought aboutit, but I was you know super
busy, and uh so you they don'tfollow instructions.
I'm patient, I'll wait.
You know, they'll eventually getto it.
So um that's part of it.
Um so if you're trying tomaintain control, understand
(12:07):
that when you give up control,that's that's when you're going
to start gaining things.
So addiction convinces you thatletting go is death.
When in reality it's not.
You start stabilizing, let otherpeople help you.
So what I see when someone is isclinically, when someone is
(12:31):
done, um shame, resentment,fear, sadness, they kind of
creep in.
So the the authority that youhave.
Um common statements fromaddicts at this stage are kind
of like, ah, I can't do thisanymore.
I don't even know why I'm using.
I'm tired of disappointingeverybody.
I'm tired of being tired.
(12:53):
You know, they're kind of atthat surrender point, end of the
rope, right?
So what that means is thatthere's this first moment of
clarity.
Like you can see the chaos andthe damage that it's doing to
you.
You're starting to see it.
And the nervous system issignaling that overload, right?
Because you're feeling it.
Before that, perhaps you thoughtyou were kind of doing okay, you
(13:16):
the illusion of doing okay.
It's like, no, I'm fine, I'mfine.
It's the classic dumpster fire.
You know, there's you're thedumpster is on fire, and it's
like, no, it's okay, I'm okay.
It's like, no, you're not, andyou're starting to realize that.
So there's that moment ofclarity um when the nervous
system is starting to justcollapse, you're you're
exhausted.
(13:37):
So the feeling is done, butbeing ready is the result,
right?
It it feeling done doesn'tnecessarily feel like you're
being ready, but actually it isbeing ready.
And readiness comes with honestyand getting help.
So when you're hitting the endof your rope, it doesn't mean
(14:00):
that you're cured.
It means that you're reachable.
You're at the end of hanging onto that rope.
Now you can be reached.
When you're way up at the otherend of the rope, nobody can
reach you.
You think you got it going on,you think everything's fine, and
then you're slowly, slowly,slowly, it's getting worse and
worse and worse.
But that just means you'rereachable by those of us who
(14:22):
have been waiting for you allthis time to get down to Earth's
level here, you know.
So how how does this strength umwhen it's finally running out,
what what what what can you do?
You know, if you're if you're aChristian, there's a scriptural
reference that kind of is veryum relevant and it's it's in
(14:45):
Matthew.
Come to me, all who are wearyand burdened, and I will give
you rest.
This is the idea of like, youknow, you just you come to me,
you lay it at my feet.
Lay that problem at my feet.
Um it's it's funny.
There's no there's no requestfor willpower coming from God.
(15:05):
He he asks for surrender andtruth.
So surrender is not passivity,it's actually the beginning of
the action steps.
It can feel like failure, right?
I surrendered, but from aspiritual point, from that
spiritual point, it's not aboutthat.
It's about coming to and layingit down.
If you're burdened, if you'reweary, uh exhausted, as I'm
(15:27):
saying.
That getting rid of thatexhaustion, finally, I just
like, oh, I can't, you know,it's like wearing shoes that are
too small.
You take them off and suddenlyyour feet feel better.
You're walking around, you'rejust in pain, but you're not
really even necessarily surewhy.
So it's the end of thisself-deception, kind of like
when you're wearing those shoesand you're walking around, you
(15:47):
keep telling yourself, yeah, butthey look really good, and you
just keep pretending likethey're not hurting your feet.
Then you take them off.
You've you've surrendered to theidea that that you know what, I
don't care how they look, myfeet hurt, I can't wear these
anymore.
So it's not a passive movementsurrender, it's an active
movement, it's an action towardsmoving towards the recovery.
(16:08):
And so when you do that, graceshows up when pretending stops.
So the idea of coming to himwhen you're weary and burdened
and you can't do it anymore, andthat's where you start to get
that that rest.
Um so you're at the end of yourrope.
Congratulations.
(16:29):
What do you not do when you'reat the end of the rope?
What do you what are you notsupposed to do when you get
there?
So um making promises you can'tkeep.
Oh, I'm never gonna do thisagain.
Yeah, well, you know what?
You all likelihood,statistically, you're going to.
You're going to have multipleaccidents when you actually
(16:52):
start working on recovery.
Um sometimes the the you know,when you stop using your
chemical of choice, the um thefeeling of shame starts to kick
in because you realize thatyou've been doing all these
things that are a problem forother people.
Maybe you've caused a lot ofchaos.
You've been the tornado thatblew into town and destroyed a
(17:13):
bunch of buildings, you know,um, relationships or work or you
know, whatever.
So that shame uh it can keep youin its grip of needing to
isolate and disappear.
And I that's what happens.
My it's it's a regular thing forme when I'm dealing with
clients.
(17:33):
I'll be working with a clientfor six months or whatever, and
they call and they say, uh, youknow, not I I gotta work, so I
need to cancel my session thisweek.
And I'm like, okay, do you wantto reschedule it?
No, no, I'll just catch you nextweek.
I'm like, okay.
And I'm waiting.
And second call comes the nextweek.
(17:54):
Hey, uh, I'm not feeling well.
Uh, I need to can I cancelagain?
Sorry.
Um, and I'm like, okay, well,how about this?
Uh, it's our appointments forTuesday, so why don't we
reschedule for Friday?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I would, but uh, Igotta work late, so I I can't.
Okay, all right.
All right, when that happens, Ialready know I'm gonna get the
(18:14):
third call on the third week.
And the third call is gonna be,hey, yeah, I can't uh can't make
it.
And you know, it's been a fewweeks, and I I think I need to
take a break, and I'm like,okay, here we go.
So I sometimes I'll just askthem, like, so how much have you
been using?
Or how long?
When did you start uh when didyou start drinking again?
(18:35):
And that's uh sometimes I don't,but I mean that that's I know
that's what's happened.
So they're gonna disappear.
And sometimes they'll disappearfor a month or two, sometimes
just a couple weeks.
But uh, you know, it's it's afamiliar tune, and it's really
funny because they think thatuh, you know, I don't know this
because like I've never donethis before for 24 years.
This I've been sitting in myoffice by myself, not really
(18:57):
observing addicts and theirbehavior.
So I know what's happening, andit's fine.
Uh you know, it's like, hey,call me, call me when you're
ready.
You know, I do it's like I toldyou, my door's always open.
Um that idea of like uh sayingthose, the that grand gesture,
that dramatic gesture of like,okay, I'm done with addiction.
(19:19):
I'm like, yeah, no, you're notyou're not actually done.
Uh again, they're gonna havesome accidents.
You might even have a relapse ortwo in there.
Uh, and you know what?
If you do that, um it's it'sjust you lying to yourself.
So that's that's an issue.
Now, the other one that happensquite frequently, um, uh
(19:39):
interestingly, especially morewith drugs and alcohol, I find,
and I'm not sure why.
Um, when you're replacing thesubstances with relationships,
um and and all of a suddenthere's like this pursuit for a
relationship that all of asudden happens, and it's like
you're getting sidetracked.
And I'll try to tell people heyman, you You're um you're
(20:01):
sidetracking yourself by gettinginvolved in this.
Why are you chasing girls?
Why are you chasing guys?
What what's what's going onhere?
I know what's going on.
I'm just asking them if theyknow.
And they they're like, oh no, Ijust I think it's time, you
know.
And I'm like, uh, you know what?
Listen, it's it's it's a year ortwo after you're really sober
before you can even think abouta relationship.
(20:22):
And oh no, no, no.
That's what I'm and again thathappens, and then a lot of times
they start to isolate and thenthey disappear for a while and
they come back and they're like,you know, or the other one, if
it's not relationships, it'sadrenaline stuff.
So they start, you know, thesehigh-risk things, um whatever it
is, you know, some sport ormotorcycles or cars or you know,
(20:44):
whatever.
And it's always an adrenalinepush because they need that
dopamine hit.
And so they're substituting thethe adrenaline rush for the
dopamine hit they got fromthinking about or using their
drug of choice.
So the moment when you're at theend of your rope, that moment
requires containment, not chaos.
(21:04):
And by containment, I meancontaining yourself, not
isolating, not disappearing, notbeing dramatic, not losing
yourself in relationships or anyof those other things, but just
containment of self, like justcould calm down.
Like, let's just go to meetings,let's just work on self, right?
But many times they'll startcreating chaos, and that makes
(21:27):
them feel like they're doingsomething when they're not.
So desperation without guidance,uh right into relapse.
It turns into relapse, you know.
Um, don't be desperate, don'tfeel desperate.
Uh, what do you do instead?
Um it's pretty simple.
Tell the truth to a safeprofessional, therapist,
(21:50):
preferably, uh, treatmentprovider, go to rehab or
something, right?
But tell the truth to somebodywho's not gonna be reactive to
it.
Stop negotiating with thesubstance.
Just one more, or just uh and nomore cutting back plans.
That's here.
Let's do that.
Like, I you know, I'm gonna justI'm gonna go down to like I'm
(22:10):
only gonna drink on theweekends, or I'm only gonna get
I got a client or two that'llsay, I'm only gonna get uh I'm
only gonna use weed on theweekends, never during the week.
All right, you're negotiatingwith a fool yourself because
that's not cutting back and it'snot gonna work.
It's just it's just exhaustionthat's telling you that you
you've got to do something,right?
(22:30):
But you don't want to give upyour drug of choice.
Accept structure without beforemotivation.
Accepting structure beforemotivation is a problem.
Treatment works before hopereturns.
And if you're you're not reallymotivated, the saying that I
have is um people uh they theystart working on abstaining, but
(22:52):
they think that's recovery, andit's not.
You got to abstain to work onrecovery, so you don't recover
by feeling ready, you recoverbecause you're getting honest.
Understand the truth, and thetruth will set you free.
So you are um in need of that.
So you're you're not the you'renot the rescuer right now, you
(23:15):
are the swimmer in distress.
So saving other people orgetting involved in that kind of
stuff is bad.
Going to meetings and thengetting overly involved in other
people's stuff.
So letting go of the rope meansthat you're uh you're gonna it
allows you to to rely onprofessionals, it relies uh
(23:35):
allows you to be accountable, itallows you to to formulate
structure that somebody else hasgiven you.
So being rescued is not a soloactivity, you don't rescue
yourself, you ask for rescue.
Um being rescued also, might Istress, is not failure, it's
wisdom.
(23:55):
You know, this is old ClintEastwood movie, uh, the Dirty
Harry series, and he he he hasthis line, he's like, a man's
gotta know his limitations.
And he does.
Strong people accept help beforethey disappear, before they
drown.
Weak people keep trying to um doit themselves.
So letting go is a strength,it's not a weakness.
(24:18):
So if you are at the end of yourrope, stay there.
Don't start trying to climb backup and take control.
Just stay there.
So don't make that that momentlouder than it needs to be,
worse than it needs to be.
This is when you're gonna reachout.
Please reach out for help.
(24:38):
Go see somebody, go talk tosomebody who's a professional
who can help you.
Get an assessment.
And you know, a lot of timespeople have these co-occurring
mental health disorders thatthey don't even realize have
been taking place.
They're depressed, they havebipolar disorder, they got um
really bad anxiety, maybe theygot PTSD, maybe you've got, I
(24:58):
don't know what, but like figurethat out too, right?
And stop pretending.
Stop pretending that you'reyou're doing something by reg,
you know, grasping for control,uh, clinging to that rope.
It's like, I'm not really, I'mnot really a problem.
This is you know, it's yourproblem, it's not my problem.
You know what?
That's that's magical thinking.
(25:20):
It's a problem for everybody,and especially for you.
So if you're at the point wherethe rope ran out, it ran out for
a reason.
It was never meant to save you,honesty was.
The rope was the metaphor forthe nonsense of control that you
think you have.
(25:41):
It's never meant to save you,but your honesty is.
And again, understand the truth,and the truth will set you free.
So go get some help.
Surrender to recovery, just likeyou surrendered to addiction,
and you're gonna actually bemuch better off.
(26:02):
And so, that's this addiction ofaddiction, not addiction,
addition of Jacques Doc, youraddiction lifeguard.
I hope you've enjoyed thispodcast.
If you have, subscribe, like,return, and telephone.
Because you might be helpingsomebody to save their life.
If you need further helpyourself, hey, go to rehab, go
(26:23):
find a counselor, get some help.
You can reach out to me, uh,I'll help you, I'll give you
directions to get help, orwhatever it is.
There's no point in saving youraddiction by ending your life or
creating chaos or destroyingrelationships, or whatever it
is, just go get help.
So, this is Doc Shock saying uhuntil next time on the Doc
(26:48):
Shock, your addiction lifeguardpodcast.