September 27, 2024 • 22 mins
Stop making other people be responsible for your recovery by doing all of it for you.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
So you're thinking about yourown recovery and you know that
(01:34):
people are yelling at you andtelling you that you need to get
some kind of change going on inyour life.
And so you decide you're goingto start to work on recovery and
then step one, start employingother people.
And by employing other people, Imean like getting them to do the
work for you.
(01:54):
This is a common issue that Irun into.
with people who are firststarting to get into recovery
when they don't want to get intorecovery is they will start
getting everybody around them todo everything and they think
it's some kind of a clever trickto manipulate people into doing
their work on recovery whenthey're not doing it themselves
(02:16):
so here's the scenario somebodyis using and they're kind of out
of control and then they finallysay I need to I need to change I
need to change and that's whatthey're they're thinking in
their head and But they don'treally want to change.
And I've talked about thisbefore.
Nobody ever wants to get cleanand sober.
They need to.
(02:37):
And so they start getting otherpeople to do the work.
In other words, you get yourparents, your wife, your
husband, your girlfriend, yourboyfriend, whatever, to find a
therapist for you, to find arehab for you, to find an IOP
for you.
to find someplace where you candetox.
(02:59):
And that's your request.
Like, oh, can you help me findsomething I can't see?
You know, it's funny because thepeople who are always making
those requests, it seems like,are the ones that aren't working
and aren't going to school oraren't doing anything.
They're just kind of sittingaround.
And yet the person who is therelative, they get super
activated because they've beenwaiting, you know, impatiently
waiting for you.
(03:20):
to finally get your act togetherand start working on getting
help.
And then as soon as they hearyou say something like, oh, I
need to get some help, theyimmediately jump into action.
And then you just kind of seethat and you watch it and you're
like, oh, okay, well, great.
Now I don't have to do anything.
And what you're doing as anaddict is you are diverting
(03:42):
attention away from you.
And then you're also deflectingyour own responsibility in your
own recovery.
So it's just a crazy way toapproach it.
Seemingly, from a logicalstandpoint, I mean, if you're in
recovery and you're listening tothis, you know, because you
probably did this.
And if you're not in recoveryand you're listening to this,
(04:03):
you're probably going to dothis.
And it's the wrong thing to do.
Really, the important part ofrecovery is you taking action
steps towards recovery.
And so when you get other peopleactivated in the process of your
recovery rather than you doingit, you're not actually invested
(04:25):
in it, and it's not yourrecovery.
And it's comical to watch.
From a non-clinician standpoint,it's comical to watch these
people just get super activatedinto someone else's recovery.
Now, I, as a therapist, when Iget a phone call...
from somebody who is saying, oh,I need help.
(04:46):
This is usually how it starts.
I need help with my son.
I need help with my husband ormy wife or whatever.
And as soon as I see that,that's usually the first or
second sentence out of theirmouth, I immediately go into,
well, I'm not talking to you.
I'm not going to talk to you.
And I don't.
(05:07):
I used to Invest a lot of timeon these people that were in
that place and try to get themto understand that what they're
doing is enabling and that it'scounterproductive and it's
destructive and it's causing theperson who's an addict to just
make them jump through all thesehoops that they shouldn't.
(05:27):
And they would listen patiently.
As I talked about it and theywould put up their arguments as
to why it's important that theyget involved in this.
And I would say, no, that's notactually not true.
And I'm doing this outside of asession.
I'm doing this on the phone.
I would spend 15, 20, 30 minuteswith them and I realized, okay,
hold on.
(05:48):
The first problem is I'm talkingto the wrong person.
The second problem is I'm doingfree counseling to somebody
who's not even listening orinviting this into their life.
This is just, this is crazy.
So I don't do it anymore.
As soon as they call and theysay, I am the loved one of the
addict and they need to make anappointment.
(06:09):
So I'd like to know what timesyou have available.
I say the same thing to them.
I'm sorry, I don't makeappointments through third
parties.
You're going to have to havethat person call me.
And about 80% of the time, guesswhat happens?
The other person never callsbecause they had no intention of
ever really showing up.
The other 20% of the time whenthey do call, they call, they
(06:30):
make an appointment, they showup for one, maybe two sessions,
and then they never come back.
Because they're not invested inthis.
So you as an addict, if you needhelp, you need to be the one
that's actually engaging andworking on that.
And if it means that you have tojust go into full-on surrender
(06:51):
and just walk into a hospital...
or walk into a treatment centeror walk into an IOP on your own,
then that's what you gotta do.
And listen, man, that's the wayyou get into recovery is you do
the work.
If you've got other people doingthe work, man, you are doing
yourself a disservice and you'remanipulating your loved ones and
you're just gonna make themresent you even more.
(07:13):
And I'm sure that you're notreally wanting that as an
outcome.
Hopefully you still care aboutthe people that care about you.
You haven't gone so far into itthat you've lost that part of
it.
But man, that is absolutelygoing to make it so that you are
going to have more and moreresentment building up on their
side.
And you've got more to gothrough when you're going
(07:36):
through step nine and makingamends.
So...
That's a tough situation to bein for a loved one when you're
watching the person that youlove disintegrate right in front
of you and fall apart andperhaps die.
It's painful.
I mean, I walk that path withpeople every week.
(08:00):
I don't want to say every day,but every week when the loved
ones are coming into my officeand they're just upset and
they're sad and they're youknow, just depressed about it.
And I walk them through that.
And other times I have theaddict comes in and they're
trying to figure out, you know,how do I stop this?
And they can't because it'scompulsive and they keep
(08:21):
relapsing and everything.
And I'll walk people throughthat too.
So I've seen both sides of it.
And then I've also seen,unfortunately, the attempt at
repair of the damage that theperson got engaged in when they
started manipulating thosearound them.
And you know what?
None of it's good.
Like it's all bad.
The only outcome that can begood is if you just take
(08:42):
responsibility for your ownrecovery.
So step one in the Doc Jacquessteps of procedural steps of
recovery.
Step one, man, pick up thatphone yourself and make that
call.
I'm all for a judge.
or an employer forcing recoveryon somebody because, you know
(09:07):
what, that means that thatperson is suffering.
They're going to lose something,and they don't want to lose it,
so then they go.
I mean, that's great, man.
I'll call the cops on somebody,and I'll testify in court for
you, which I've done many timesto try to help somebody, get
them into recovery rather thango to jail.
(09:27):
But, you know, you've got tomake that call.
It's going to save your life,and it's going to save you in
the process of your sanity andeverything else.
So you've got to becomeresponsible for your own
recovery.
Now, there's another part tothis, and that is what motivates
(09:48):
somebody to not engage in theirown recovery.
What the heck is that all about?
You know, me as a sane, stableperson, not as a therapist, but
just as a human being, it seemslike, you know, if somebody is
injured, that they would go to adoctor.
Let's say you broke your arm.
You wouldn't walk around with abroken arm for, you know, and
(10:11):
just ignore it.
And it's painful every day.
And you can't function.
You can't, I don't know, youcan't lift things.
You can't, you know, you can'tdo anything because your arm is
broken.
Like, literally in half.
The...
The arm is broken in half.
You wouldn't just ignore it.
And so the logical person says,oh, ow, pain, and then they go
(10:32):
to the emergency room.
And a doctor puts it in a cast,and they splint it, and they
tell you to do this and do that,and magically in 6, 10, 12
weeks, your arm is fine.
Not true with addiction.
Not true at all.
you think that your addiction isthe answer and you've convinced
(10:54):
yourself that because you areinsane and insane people do
crazy things, right?
So you've convinced yourselfthat getting high or getting
drunk or gambling or shopping orwhatever your addiction is, you
think that's the cure, right?
So it's kind of like the analogyof the person with the broken
arm.
They think the cure is to swingtheir arm around in the air.
(11:16):
And it's like, what are youdoing?
You're swinging your arm aroundin the air.
This is crazy.
Stop doing that.
Well, that's what, you know,when you first did it, it felt
good because like the bones kindof moved back into place a
little bit.
But that doesn't allow the armto heal and immobilization does,
right?
So same thing with addiction.
First, you start using and it'skind of, oh, this works.
(11:38):
Yeah, I'm out of my mind.
I'm crazy.
I got away from it.
The pain, the trauma.
And then after, you know, days,weeks, months, whatever, it's
not working anymore.
And you just keep doing it andyou're doing more of it.
And now that's become a problembecause now you can't stop doing
it because you're addicted toit.
You got a dependency on it,physical or emotional.
(12:01):
And so now you can't stop doingit.
Well, the person who has thebroken arm is going to
eventually get to the pointwhere they say, oh, ouch, arm
hurt.
Go to hospital.
So you would hear thateventually.
hopefully, unless you really areinsane, your head is going to
(12:22):
tell you this.
It's going to tell you to go.
So with these action steps youneed to take when you're an
addict, you've gone insane.
That's why we talk about it.
Bill W.
talks about, in the big book,and they do the 12 steps, they
talk about turning yourself overto a higher power to bring you
(12:44):
back to sanity.
And you're insane, right?
And in the 30s when you wereinsane, that really meant like
you were getting put in astraitjacket and thrown into an
institution that you couldn'tleave voluntarily.
It was not voluntary entranceand it's not voluntary exiting.
You had to be discharged.
And that's when a doctor deemedyou capable of being discharged.
(13:07):
So you were in there.
You could not get out.
You couldn't just walk out.
It's not like today.
So when they used the terminsanity, it was a serious
accusation and a serious breachof conduct that somebody has to
be demonstrating.
And it was a real shaming kindof thing.
(13:28):
Crazy people were just not, theywere not okay.
It was not okay to be a crazyperson.
So anyway, so you getting to thepoint where you're saying, I
need help.
That is just it.
I need help.
I was listening to a clip of BenAffleck talking to Howard Stern
(13:49):
in an interview.
He's talking about his ownstruggles with alcoholism and
recovery.
And he said he used to go to...
He would go to meetings, and Ididn't hear the whole interview,
so I don't know if he went torehab or not.
Perhaps he did.
I don't know.
But he was just talking abouthis time when he was going into
the rooms in AA.
And he said he would go into therooms, and he'd get really angry
(14:10):
because he'd be listening tosome old-timer talk about...
I've been sober for 30 years andI don't have that compulsion to
use anymore.
It's just not even touching mylife anymore.
And he'd get really angrybecause he's like, man, what are
you talking about?
First of all, you're sitting inthis room.
You're telling me you've beensober for 30 years.
(14:31):
What are you doing here?
And you're sitting here talkingabout things that aren't even
relevant to me because I'm inreal pain.
I need help.
This is not helping me.
And he didn't understand themessaging of what...
what that person is telling himin that meeting about the
importance of sobriety and howyou aim towards it or whatever.
(14:53):
So he'd get really angry aboutit and he'd leave the meeting
and he would go back out andhe'd think, I'm not getting help
anywhere and he'd drink again.
Then he'd come back into therooms and he'd see people again
that were these old timers thatwould talk like that.
And he said, unfortunately, um ididn't lose everything like i
didn't lose big huge things umyou know i don't know how much
(15:16):
that affected his marriages andit certainly affects his kids
but i maybe he didn't see thatas a big thing but uh he said i
didn't lose you know a lot inthe process of trying you know
when i was drunk but trying toget sober and then he realized
um that going to rehab really isnot the cure and going to the
(15:39):
rooms while helpful is not thecure.
There's no magic potion or pillor processes, expensive rehabs
and things.
He said, those, that's not,that's really not the cure.
He said, the real, the only realcure for addiction is suffering.
And I was like, wow.
Okay.
Somebody said it out loud in apublic setting.
(15:59):
This is awesome from somebodywho hopefully people are
listening to because they'refans of his.
Um, But he said the only realcure for addiction is suffering.
And he's right.
And I've said that in thesepodcasts the entire time I've
been doing them.
You only move towards gettingclean and sober when you either
have lost the one thing that youdidn't want to lose or you're
(16:22):
about to.
That is suffering.
And this is the problem.
When you turn your recovery overto other people...
to be responsible for puttingtogether your recovery, you are
not suffering.
You are continuing tomanipulate, and you're probably
doing it from your parents'basement, or if you're a spouse,
you're doing it from home whilethe spouse is out working.
(16:44):
You're commanding them to takeresponsibility for your
recovery, and they are notresponsible for your recovery.
You are.
Plain and simple, like you areresponsible for your recovery.
No one else is.
I'm a counselor.
I'm a therapist.
I walk people through recoveryevery day for a living.
This is what I do eight hours aday, every day.
(17:05):
And I walk people through theirrecovery and I will not do any
of it for them.
I make my clients call me.
I make clients pay for sessions.
I make clients figure out whatthey're going to do.
Like if I say, okay, I want youto do stuff outside of this
session.
(17:25):
Like we're seeing each other foran hour a week or two hours a
week or three hours a week, butthere's 168 hours in a week.
I want to know what you aregoing to do with the rest of the
168 hours and not just the oneor two.
So now we're down to, what, 166or 167.
I want to know what you aregoing to do.
(17:46):
And I make them try to figure itout.
Like, well, I don't know.
And then I make them ask me.
Like, I don't know what else Ican do.
And then we start going throughthe list.
Oh, well, there's meetings.
There are podcasts.
There are YouTube videos.
There are books.
There are all kinds of thingsyou could do.
(18:06):
outside of the 167 hours left inyour week from coming to see me,
and I make them start picturing,like, what are they going to do?
And I will give themsuggestions, but I don't tell
them which podcast to listen to.
I mean, I would love to be ableto tell them to listen to mine,
but I don't.
But I say, I'll make asuggestion.
(18:29):
Like, I'll say, okay, what Iwant you to do is open your
phone, open up YouTube, and Iwant you to type in Ted Talks
alcoholism or Ted Talks cocaineaddiction or Ted Talks recovery
or Ted Talks addiction.
There are probably hundreds ofvideos that pop up.
(18:49):
I haven't actually counted them,but I mean, it's a lot, right?
Because the Ted Talks have beengoing on for, I don't know, 20,
30 years.
So they, oh, I didn't realizethere were this many.
I was like, yeah, look at that.
And I say, and there arepodcasts.
And you can find podcasts andthey're like, well, I know which
ones are good.
And I'm like, well, I actuallyhave a link here that will give
(19:12):
you multiples of really goodpodcasts.
Here you go.
But I don't tell them how manyto listen to.
I don't tell them when to listento it.
I don't tell them that you haveto listen to it.
I give suggestions.
Here you go.
Because I want my addicts to beresponsible for their recovery.
Because ultimately, it is yourrecovery.
You know what?
(19:32):
You're responsible for youraddiction.
You're responsible for yourrecovery.
And when somebody is refusing todo it, or they just don't follow
through...
Man, I know they are never goingto get there.
And so I, unfortunately, had tosit there and listen to them,
you know, go on and on about thethings that have happened to
them in the last few days orweeks or whatever about, you
(19:54):
know, how bad things were.
And I can't do anything aboutit.
Like, I won't.
It's just like, yeah, that's ashame, man.
I'm sorry you got arrestedagain.
Got another drunken public.
You got a DIP.
You got a DWI, a driving whileintoxicated.
Do you need me to come to court?
I'll come to court.
(20:15):
Just give me your attorney'snumber and I'll talk to him.
And I will do that, right?
Because I don't want them tothink that I'm abandoning them.
And I know a lot of therapistswon't do this, but I do.
And I don't want to abandonthem.
So I will go to court andtestify.
But that's kind of the thing.
And I'll talk to an intakecoordinator with a rehab after
(20:38):
they figured out, you know, thatthey want to go to rehab.
If they're really stumbling andnot knowing the process of how
to get into a rehab, I'll walkthem through that.
But they got to tell me theywant to go, that they're going
to go or that they need to go.
I don't care how they phrase it.
But you can't make your familyresponsible for your recovery
because if you don't get intorecovery, guess who is going to
(21:01):
be responsible?
Your family.
And now you've just tightenedthe noose further around their
neck because they're trying torun away, but they're getting
choked out because they feeltrapped.
And ultimately, it is a full-onmanipulation on your part to
avoid actually getting intorecovery.
And that's a shame because it'syour recovery.
(21:22):
So don't make it somebody else'srecovery.
Make it yours.
So take responsibility for itand do what you're supposed to
do to get there.
man it's another episode in thetank i appreciate you listening
to me this is doc jock youraddiction lifeguard and this is
a recovery podcast if you needhelp please reach out to me you
(21:47):
can reach me through my websiteyou can send a message to me but
please subscribe and comment ifyou like the podcast pass it
along to the next person and ifyou want and you want to show
some love you can do a donationthrough the contribute button on
your podcast listening platformso if you need help go to rehab
(22:09):
go to the hospital go to acounselor get help wherever you
are but it's not worth savingyour addiction by ending your
life it's crazy to do that soplease get clean and sober and
until next time this is DocShock saying see ya
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
So you're thinking about yourown recovery and you know that
(01:34):
people are yelling at you andtelling you that you need to get
some kind of change going on inyour life.
And so you decide you're goingto start to work on recovery and
then step one, start employingother people.
And by employing other people, Imean like getting them to do the
work for you.
(01:54):
This is a common issue that Irun into.
with people who are firststarting to get into recovery
when they don't want to get intorecovery is they will start
getting everybody around them todo everything and they think
it's some kind of a clever trickto manipulate people into doing
their work on recovery whenthey're not doing it themselves
(02:16):
so here's the scenario somebodyis using and they're kind of out
of control and then they finallysay I need to I need to change I
need to change and that's whatthey're they're thinking in
their head and But they don'treally want to change.
And I've talked about thisbefore.
Nobody ever wants to get cleanand sober.
They need to.
(02:37):
And so they start getting otherpeople to do the work.
In other words, you get yourparents, your wife, your
husband, your girlfriend, yourboyfriend, whatever, to find a
therapist for you, to find arehab for you, to find an IOP
for you.
to find someplace where you candetox.
(02:59):
And that's your request.
Like, oh, can you help me findsomething I can't see?
You know, it's funny because thepeople who are always making
those requests, it seems like,are the ones that aren't working
and aren't going to school oraren't doing anything.
They're just kind of sittingaround.
And yet the person who is therelative, they get super
activated because they've beenwaiting, you know, impatiently
waiting for you.
(03:20):
to finally get your act togetherand start working on getting
help.
And then as soon as they hearyou say something like, oh, I
need to get some help, theyimmediately jump into action.
And then you just kind of seethat and you watch it and you're
like, oh, okay, well, great.
Now I don't have to do anything.
And what you're doing as anaddict is you are diverting
(03:42):
attention away from you.
And then you're also deflectingyour own responsibility in your
own recovery.
So it's just a crazy way toapproach it.
Seemingly, from a logicalstandpoint, I mean, if you're in
recovery and you're listening tothis, you know, because you
probably did this.
And if you're not in recoveryand you're listening to this,
(04:03):
you're probably going to dothis.
And it's the wrong thing to do.
Really, the important part ofrecovery is you taking action
steps towards recovery.
And so when you get other peopleactivated in the process of your
recovery rather than you doingit, you're not actually invested
(04:25):
in it, and it's not yourrecovery.
And it's comical to watch.
From a non-clinician standpoint,it's comical to watch these
people just get super activatedinto someone else's recovery.
Now, I, as a therapist, when Iget a phone call...
from somebody who is saying, oh,I need help.
(04:46):
This is usually how it starts.
I need help with my son.
I need help with my husband ormy wife or whatever.
And as soon as I see that,that's usually the first or
second sentence out of theirmouth, I immediately go into,
well, I'm not talking to you.
I'm not going to talk to you.
And I don't.
(05:07):
I used to Invest a lot of timeon these people that were in
that place and try to get themto understand that what they're
doing is enabling and that it'scounterproductive and it's
destructive and it's causing theperson who's an addict to just
make them jump through all thesehoops that they shouldn't.
(05:27):
And they would listen patiently.
As I talked about it and theywould put up their arguments as
to why it's important that theyget involved in this.
And I would say, no, that's notactually not true.
And I'm doing this outside of asession.
I'm doing this on the phone.
I would spend 15, 20, 30 minuteswith them and I realized, okay,
hold on.
(05:48):
The first problem is I'm talkingto the wrong person.
The second problem is I'm doingfree counseling to somebody
who's not even listening orinviting this into their life.
This is just, this is crazy.
So I don't do it anymore.
As soon as they call and theysay, I am the loved one of the
addict and they need to make anappointment.
(06:09):
So I'd like to know what timesyou have available.
I say the same thing to them.
I'm sorry, I don't makeappointments through third
parties.
You're going to have to havethat person call me.
And about 80% of the time, guesswhat happens?
The other person never callsbecause they had no intention of
ever really showing up.
The other 20% of the time whenthey do call, they call, they
(06:30):
make an appointment, they showup for one, maybe two sessions,
and then they never come back.
Because they're not invested inthis.
So you as an addict, if you needhelp, you need to be the one
that's actually engaging andworking on that.
And if it means that you have tojust go into full-on surrender
(06:51):
and just walk into a hospital...
or walk into a treatment centeror walk into an IOP on your own,
then that's what you gotta do.
And listen, man, that's the wayyou get into recovery is you do
the work.
If you've got other people doingthe work, man, you are doing
yourself a disservice and you'remanipulating your loved ones and
you're just gonna make themresent you even more.
(07:13):
And I'm sure that you're notreally wanting that as an
outcome.
Hopefully you still care aboutthe people that care about you.
You haven't gone so far into itthat you've lost that part of
it.
But man, that is absolutelygoing to make it so that you are
going to have more and moreresentment building up on their
side.
And you've got more to gothrough when you're going
(07:36):
through step nine and makingamends.
So...
That's a tough situation to bein for a loved one when you're
watching the person that youlove disintegrate right in front
of you and fall apart andperhaps die.
It's painful.
I mean, I walk that path withpeople every week.
(08:00):
I don't want to say every day,but every week when the loved
ones are coming into my officeand they're just upset and
they're sad and they're youknow, just depressed about it.
And I walk them through that.
And other times I have theaddict comes in and they're
trying to figure out, you know,how do I stop this?
And they can't because it'scompulsive and they keep
(08:21):
relapsing and everything.
And I'll walk people throughthat too.
So I've seen both sides of it.
And then I've also seen,unfortunately, the attempt at
repair of the damage that theperson got engaged in when they
started manipulating thosearound them.
And you know what?
None of it's good.
Like it's all bad.
The only outcome that can begood is if you just take
(08:42):
responsibility for your ownrecovery.
So step one in the Doc Jacquessteps of procedural steps of
recovery.
Step one, man, pick up thatphone yourself and make that
call.
I'm all for a judge.
or an employer forcing recoveryon somebody because, you know
(09:07):
what, that means that thatperson is suffering.
They're going to lose something,and they don't want to lose it,
so then they go.
I mean, that's great, man.
I'll call the cops on somebody,and I'll testify in court for
you, which I've done many timesto try to help somebody, get
them into recovery rather thango to jail.
(09:27):
But, you know, you've got tomake that call.
It's going to save your life,and it's going to save you in
the process of your sanity andeverything else.
So you've got to becomeresponsible for your own
recovery.
Now, there's another part tothis, and that is what motivates
(09:48):
somebody to not engage in theirown recovery.
What the heck is that all about?
You know, me as a sane, stableperson, not as a therapist, but
just as a human being, it seemslike, you know, if somebody is
injured, that they would go to adoctor.
Let's say you broke your arm.
You wouldn't walk around with abroken arm for, you know, and
(10:11):
just ignore it.
And it's painful every day.
And you can't function.
You can't, I don't know, youcan't lift things.
You can't, you know, you can'tdo anything because your arm is
broken.
Like, literally in half.
The...
The arm is broken in half.
You wouldn't just ignore it.
And so the logical person says,oh, ow, pain, and then they go
(10:32):
to the emergency room.
And a doctor puts it in a cast,and they splint it, and they
tell you to do this and do that,and magically in 6, 10, 12
weeks, your arm is fine.
Not true with addiction.
Not true at all.
you think that your addiction isthe answer and you've convinced
(10:54):
yourself that because you areinsane and insane people do
crazy things, right?
So you've convinced yourselfthat getting high or getting
drunk or gambling or shopping orwhatever your addiction is, you
think that's the cure, right?
So it's kind of like the analogyof the person with the broken
arm.
They think the cure is to swingtheir arm around in the air.
(11:16):
And it's like, what are youdoing?
You're swinging your arm aroundin the air.
This is crazy.
Stop doing that.
Well, that's what, you know,when you first did it, it felt
good because like the bones kindof moved back into place a
little bit.
But that doesn't allow the armto heal and immobilization does,
right?
So same thing with addiction.
First, you start using and it'skind of, oh, this works.
(11:38):
Yeah, I'm out of my mind.
I'm crazy.
I got away from it.
The pain, the trauma.
And then after, you know, days,weeks, months, whatever, it's
not working anymore.
And you just keep doing it andyou're doing more of it.
And now that's become a problembecause now you can't stop doing
it because you're addicted toit.
You got a dependency on it,physical or emotional.
(12:01):
And so now you can't stop doingit.
Well, the person who has thebroken arm is going to
eventually get to the pointwhere they say, oh, ouch, arm
hurt.
Go to hospital.
So you would hear thateventually.
hopefully, unless you really areinsane, your head is going to
(12:22):
tell you this.
It's going to tell you to go.
So with these action steps youneed to take when you're an
addict, you've gone insane.
That's why we talk about it.
Bill W.
talks about, in the big book,and they do the 12 steps, they
talk about turning yourself overto a higher power to bring you
(12:44):
back to sanity.
And you're insane, right?
And in the 30s when you wereinsane, that really meant like
you were getting put in astraitjacket and thrown into an
institution that you couldn'tleave voluntarily.
It was not voluntary entranceand it's not voluntary exiting.
You had to be discharged.
And that's when a doctor deemedyou capable of being discharged.
(13:07):
So you were in there.
You could not get out.
You couldn't just walk out.
It's not like today.
So when they used the terminsanity, it was a serious
accusation and a serious breachof conduct that somebody has to
be demonstrating.
And it was a real shaming kindof thing.
(13:28):
Crazy people were just not, theywere not okay.
It was not okay to be a crazyperson.
So anyway, so you getting to thepoint where you're saying, I
need help.
That is just it.
I need help.
I was listening to a clip of BenAffleck talking to Howard Stern
(13:49):
in an interview.
He's talking about his ownstruggles with alcoholism and
recovery.
And he said he used to go to...
He would go to meetings, and Ididn't hear the whole interview,
so I don't know if he went torehab or not.
Perhaps he did.
I don't know.
But he was just talking abouthis time when he was going into
the rooms in AA.
And he said he would go into therooms, and he'd get really angry
(14:10):
because he'd be listening tosome old-timer talk about...
I've been sober for 30 years andI don't have that compulsion to
use anymore.
It's just not even touching mylife anymore.
And he'd get really angrybecause he's like, man, what are
you talking about?
First of all, you're sitting inthis room.
You're telling me you've beensober for 30 years.
(14:31):
What are you doing here?
And you're sitting here talkingabout things that aren't even
relevant to me because I'm inreal pain.
I need help.
This is not helping me.
And he didn't understand themessaging of what...
what that person is telling himin that meeting about the
importance of sobriety and howyou aim towards it or whatever.
(14:53):
So he'd get really angry aboutit and he'd leave the meeting
and he would go back out andhe'd think, I'm not getting help
anywhere and he'd drink again.
Then he'd come back into therooms and he'd see people again
that were these old timers thatwould talk like that.
And he said, unfortunately, um ididn't lose everything like i
didn't lose big huge things umyou know i don't know how much
(15:16):
that affected his marriages andit certainly affects his kids
but i maybe he didn't see thatas a big thing but uh he said i
didn't lose you know a lot inthe process of trying you know
when i was drunk but trying toget sober and then he realized
um that going to rehab really isnot the cure and going to the
(15:39):
rooms while helpful is not thecure.
There's no magic potion or pillor processes, expensive rehabs
and things.
He said, those, that's not,that's really not the cure.
He said, the real, the only realcure for addiction is suffering.
And I was like, wow.
Okay.
Somebody said it out loud in apublic setting.
(15:59):
This is awesome from somebodywho hopefully people are
listening to because they'refans of his.
Um, But he said the only realcure for addiction is suffering.
And he's right.
And I've said that in thesepodcasts the entire time I've
been doing them.
You only move towards gettingclean and sober when you either
have lost the one thing that youdidn't want to lose or you're
(16:22):
about to.
That is suffering.
And this is the problem.
When you turn your recovery overto other people...
to be responsible for puttingtogether your recovery, you are
not suffering.
You are continuing tomanipulate, and you're probably
doing it from your parents'basement, or if you're a spouse,
you're doing it from home whilethe spouse is out working.
(16:44):
You're commanding them to takeresponsibility for your
recovery, and they are notresponsible for your recovery.
You are.
Plain and simple, like you areresponsible for your recovery.
No one else is.
I'm a counselor.
I'm a therapist.
I walk people through recoveryevery day for a living.
This is what I do eight hours aday, every day.
(17:05):
And I walk people through theirrecovery and I will not do any
of it for them.
I make my clients call me.
I make clients pay for sessions.
I make clients figure out whatthey're going to do.
Like if I say, okay, I want youto do stuff outside of this
session.
(17:25):
Like we're seeing each other foran hour a week or two hours a
week or three hours a week, butthere's 168 hours in a week.
I want to know what you aregoing to do with the rest of the
168 hours and not just the oneor two.
So now we're down to, what, 166or 167.
I want to know what you aregoing to do.
(17:46):
And I make them try to figure itout.
Like, well, I don't know.
And then I make them ask me.
Like, I don't know what else Ican do.
And then we start going throughthe list.
Oh, well, there's meetings.
There are podcasts.
There are YouTube videos.
There are books.
There are all kinds of thingsyou could do.
(18:06):
outside of the 167 hours left inyour week from coming to see me,
and I make them start picturing,like, what are they going to do?
And I will give themsuggestions, but I don't tell
them which podcast to listen to.
I mean, I would love to be ableto tell them to listen to mine,
but I don't.
But I say, I'll make asuggestion.
(18:29):
Like, I'll say, okay, what Iwant you to do is open your
phone, open up YouTube, and Iwant you to type in Ted Talks
alcoholism or Ted Talks cocaineaddiction or Ted Talks recovery
or Ted Talks addiction.
There are probably hundreds ofvideos that pop up.
(18:49):
I haven't actually counted them,but I mean, it's a lot, right?
Because the Ted Talks have beengoing on for, I don't know, 20,
30 years.
So they, oh, I didn't realizethere were this many.
I was like, yeah, look at that.
And I say, and there arepodcasts.
And you can find podcasts andthey're like, well, I know which
ones are good.
And I'm like, well, I actuallyhave a link here that will give
(19:12):
you multiples of really goodpodcasts.
Here you go.
But I don't tell them how manyto listen to.
I don't tell them when to listento it.
I don't tell them that you haveto listen to it.
I give suggestions.
Here you go.
Because I want my addicts to beresponsible for their recovery.
Because ultimately, it is yourrecovery.
You know what?
(19:32):
You're responsible for youraddiction.
You're responsible for yourrecovery.
And when somebody is refusing todo it, or they just don't follow
through...
Man, I know they are never goingto get there.
And so I, unfortunately, had tosit there and listen to them,
you know, go on and on about thethings that have happened to
them in the last few days orweeks or whatever about, you
(19:54):
know, how bad things were.
And I can't do anything aboutit.
Like, I won't.
It's just like, yeah, that's ashame, man.
I'm sorry you got arrestedagain.
Got another drunken public.
You got a DIP.
You got a DWI, a driving whileintoxicated.
Do you need me to come to court?
I'll come to court.
(20:15):
Just give me your attorney'snumber and I'll talk to him.
And I will do that, right?
Because I don't want them tothink that I'm abandoning them.
And I know a lot of therapistswon't do this, but I do.
And I don't want to abandonthem.
So I will go to court andtestify.
But that's kind of the thing.
And I'll talk to an intakecoordinator with a rehab after
(20:38):
they figured out, you know, thatthey want to go to rehab.
If they're really stumbling andnot knowing the process of how
to get into a rehab, I'll walkthem through that.
But they got to tell me theywant to go, that they're going
to go or that they need to go.
I don't care how they phrase it.
But you can't make your familyresponsible for your recovery
because if you don't get intorecovery, guess who is going to
(21:01):
be responsible?
Your family.
And now you've just tightenedthe noose further around their
neck because they're trying torun away, but they're getting
choked out because they feeltrapped.
And ultimately, it is a full-onmanipulation on your part to
avoid actually getting intorecovery.
And that's a shame because it'syour recovery.
(21:22):
So don't make it somebody else'srecovery.
Make it yours.
So take responsibility for itand do what you're supposed to
do to get there.
man it's another episode in thetank i appreciate you listening
to me this is doc jock youraddiction lifeguard and this is
a recovery podcast if you needhelp please reach out to me you
(21:47):
can reach me through my websiteyou can send a message to me but
please subscribe and comment ifyou like the podcast pass it
along to the next person and ifyou want and you want to show
some love you can do a donationthrough the contribute button on
your podcast listening platformso if you need help go to rehab
(22:09):
go to the hospital go to acounselor get help wherever you
are but it's not worth savingyour addiction by ending your
life it's crazy to do that soplease get clean and sober and
until next time this is DocShock saying see ya
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