March 28, 2025 • 25 mins
It is important to know how and when to self sooth when you are uncomfortable.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
As addicts, people usually use,because they feel uncomfortable,
(01:46):
That's generally what I keepsaying to everybody in these
podcasts.
The reason that we use isbecause we're uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable can come in manyforms.
It could come in the form ofsadness or anger or anxiety,
depression, mania, you know,something that just makes you
feel anxious.
It's discomfort, right?
(02:08):
And when we feel uncomfortable,we want to get rid of that
feeling.
Addicts have a horriblesituation where they can't get
rid of that feeling because Theyeither don't have an outlet for
it or they've learned not to sayanything or do anything about
it.
But sometimes it's because theyhave a background of trauma and
it's difficult in the earlystages anyway.
(02:30):
It's difficult, early stages ofaddiction.
It's difficult for people todeal with their feelings.
They can't manage them.
They can't regulate them.
They become dysregulated becausethey feel the experience
stronger than someone who hasnot suffered trauma.
In my practice, 100% of thepeople that come into my office,
if they have addiction, theyhave trauma, and it's usually in
(02:52):
childhood.
Sometimes, occasionally, but notoften, it's in adulthood.
Something else has happenedwhere somebody was killed or a
really, really contentiousdivorce at the hands of a
narcissist or something.
But it's trauma, and they don'trecognize it as trauma.
And that's because theyexperienced it as their life.
And so they didn't reallyunderstand it.
(03:13):
It was just kind of how thingswere.
So anyway, the reaction thatthey have is because they're
having a reaction not only tothe current situation, but also
to the past situation.
And what do you do when that ishappening, when you become
dysregulated?
Well, you use because you'reuncomfortable.
So then you start using and thatbecomes uncomfortable.
(03:35):
And it becomes this spiralingsituation.
uh, effect.
You know, when you're, when youare in that state of
dysregulation, trying to figureout how to, how to regulate, how
to re-regulate your body andyour mind, it's both.
And the research shows that themind, um, getting amped up makes
your body react, right?
(03:56):
It's a fight or flight or fawn,fight, flight, freeze, or fawn
situation.
And so you either want to runaway, you fight it, or you just
surrender.
Um, And it's difficult becausethat's the body's reaction.
So you have all this stuff andwe could talk about it, but it's
not the point of this podcast ofthe somatic responses to stress
(04:17):
and feeling uncomfortable.
But the body and the mind worktogether and the regulation and
or the dysregulation becomescombined.
So what do you do when you'refeeling that level of
dysregulation when you're notsure what it is or how that
works?
So when I'm working with clientswho are trying to work on
(04:42):
recovery, not necessarily theones that are in the middle of
usage, you've got to get them toabstain long enough to be able
to be reachable.
But the person who's working onrecovery, and let's say that
you're, I don't know, a month, amonth and a half into abstaining
and working on recovery.
(05:03):
And you get to the point whereyou're running into situations.
Maybe you're out of rehab.
You're living in a sober livinghouse.
Or maybe you've gone throughsome extensive counseling and
you've been working on recovery.
And you're at the point whereyou're starting to live your
life, a normal life.
You're trying to functionnormally in some ways.
Maybe you're going to school.
Maybe you're working part-timeat a sober job.
(05:25):
Maybe you're just trying toreintegrate into society.
And you don't have any majormental health diagnosis.
So in the clinical terms, wewould call that a dual diagnosis
where somebody has addiction andschizophrenia or addiction and
delusional thinking or theirschizoaffective disorder or
(05:47):
extreme psychopathy orsomething.
You don't have one of those, butyou just have...
kind of your average, like I'vegot major depressive disorder,
mild or moderate, or I haveanxiety or both, something like
that.
And you become dysregulatedbecause you're anxious or upset
about something that happens atwork or with a friend or where
you're living.
It is easy to to kind of tipthat scale into excessive
(06:12):
reaction to behaviors becauseyou don't know how to
self-regulate.
Perhaps you didn't learn that asa child.
Your parents were alcoholics ordrug addicts or they were
abusive and there was nonurturing or comforting going
on.
So you don't know how toself-regulate.
You weren't taught that.
So now you're having to learn itas an adult who's working on
recovery.
(06:32):
So the early stages of recoveryare about learning how to
self-regulate and to, in someinstances, You have to reparent
or self-parent because youdidn't have good parenting.
But it's the ability toself-regulate through
self-soothing.
And that's the missing piece isthe self-soothing piece.
(07:20):
for this happening.
They get a colonoscopy.
They get an endoscopy.
They can't find anything.
They don't have anything.
There's nothing really there.
Headaches, maybe they do a CTscan or something, an MRI.
They're complaining about severemigraines.
There's no real thing going onthere.
It's just the body is reactingsomatically, that's the term
(07:41):
that we use, somatic response, abody response, to the feelings
of dysregulation and discomfort.
And they are legitimate.
The pain is real, right?
It's just that the cause is notphysically there.
It's emotional.
It's a mental thing.
Irritable bowel syndrome is agood example of that.
Research is showing that mostirritable bowel syndrome
(08:03):
patients conditions can betreated by treating mental
health issues.
So you put the person onantidepressants or antipsychotic
medications to try to helpregulate their mood because that
is the issue.
Kelsey Grammer, the actor, hiswife had IBC really bad.
and irritable bowel or IBS,sorry, real bad.
(08:28):
And he was, he, I rememberlistening to an interview and he
was talking about how his wifehad finally been able to receive
treatment that was working.
And it was based on thepsychoactive drugs, psychotropic
drugs that were treating her fordepression.
And it manifested in that way.
And that, you know, the, thevagus nerve and the issues of
(08:52):
the neurons in the intestinaltract.
There's actual neurons, braincells, in the intestinal tract.
We've been able to identifythat.
So you can have somaticresponses to a level of
emotional upset.
And I've always found itfascinating that people who are
addicts really can't focus onconnection of that somatic
(09:16):
response to the experience thatthey're having that is upsetting
them.
They will feel powerless.
They will feel like there'snothing they can do about a
situation, and yet they haveextreme issues with bowel
movements, vomiting, ulcers.
(09:38):
IBS creeps in, migraineheadaches, things like that.
They never make that connection.
They never make the connectionthat feeling uncomfortable,
emotionally uncomfortable is thedriver for a thing that comes up
in the body.
And so teaching somebody how toself soothe.
(09:58):
is a challenge and it's evenmore of a challenge if you
happen to be involved withsomebody as a significant other
who is also dysregulated or hasa personality disorder.
They're narcissistic.
They're histrionic.
They're paranoid.
Their narcissism, it becomesgrandiose or it's covert or
(10:22):
something where there's a lot ofgaslighting, a lot of things
going on there in therelationship.
And so they have these somaticresponses to this stressor that
they have.
And to me, as a clinician, I'mtrying to help them bridge that
idea to get to the idea that,you know, your situation is that
(10:42):
you're feeling uncomfortable.
And so being uncomfortable, wecan treat that.
You've been self-treating itwith chemicals.
That's not working.
So we are going to work onlearning different skills.
And so the idea of I'muncomfortable, what do I do?
(11:03):
And so the analogy that I use iskind of like a a pressure
cooker.
And if you've ever seen, like mymom used to use a pressure
cooker.
It's a pot that has a lid thatclamps down really tight.
You fill it with food and waterand you put heat on it.
And then there's this weightthat sits on top of this little
valve on the top that steam isescaping from.
(11:24):
But you want a certain amount ofsteam to be in that pot to be
able to force the cooking.
And the whole point of apressure cooker is that you put
the food under pressure.
In other words, The water comesto a boil inside the pot.
It increases the atmosphericpressure in there.
And the heat becomes veryconcentrated with the steam.
(11:44):
And it cooks the food muchfaster.
And so there's shorter cookingtimes.
It's like the old school versionof a microwave, basically.
Or they have these new hotstoves.
I forget what they call them,the new type of cooking devices
that you put.
It's not necessarily the same asa pressure cooker, but similar.
Anyway, the idea is that, youknow, when life is what you're
(12:10):
living, and so you put your foodand your water in that pressure
cooker and you put the top onit.
If you put the weight on thetop, a little bit of the steam
escapes.
And after 15 minutes or 20minutes, your food is magically
cooked to perfection.
if you leave that little weighton there.
If you take the weight off, allof the steam escapes almost
(12:30):
immediately and then you're leftwith nothing in there to do the
cooking.
And so your food just burns upand that's a waste.
If you plug up that hole and youdon't let any of the steam
escape, then the pressure buildsup and it explodes.
So what you wanna do in thatanalogy is be like the pressure
(12:54):
cooker with a weight on top.
You want a little bit of thesteam to come out, but not all
of it, but you also want some ofthat steam to stay in there
because it's helpful and it doesthe cooking.
So to me, It seems like theanalogy, every time I say that,
it's funny, the people that arelistening to it, they just don't
get it at first.
(13:14):
And I say, you know what?
You know what that weight isthat's helping with the steam
escaping a little bit?
That's your connection to otherpeople.
That's going to meetings.
That's getting in the recoverycommunity.
That is your chance to let alittle bit of the steam out.
So it's important to have thosenumbers of your sponsor or other
(13:35):
people in recovery.
Because they get it.
So they're like the weight ontop of that little nipple that's
sticking up where all the steamis coming out.
You get a chance to saysomething, right?
That is what when you're raisingchildren the right way, you give
them a voice to express.
their feelings about what'supsetting them but you don't
(13:56):
just take away all theresponsibility for everything
that they are responsible forthat's lifting the weight off
because then all the steamescapes and now you've burned up
your food you do that with achild like you just you just
overly indulge that that feelingand you focus too much on it it
becomes useless it's now you'rejust you're creating a huge mess
(14:19):
if you don't let that childspeak you don't let that child
express their feelings or tellyou like what what's wrong tell
me what's wrong and let them doit you're plugging them up.
You shut them down, you'replugging up that hole.
And you're eventually going toget a kid who starts acting out.
They start exploding.
They will hit people.
They will scream.
They'll bite.
(14:39):
They'll kick.
If they're two or three yearsold.
If they get a little bit older,they become very, very
challenging and difficult.
They become very angry and theystart lashing out physically.
And a 15-year-old hittinganother kid is different than a
3-year-old hitting.
Trust me.
And they become very explosiveand difficult to deal with.
(15:01):
So we want to find that happymedium.
Well, that's what they didn'tget.
Many of my clients who come inwho have addiction issues, they
do not know how to expressthings.
They either bottle them up andnever let them out, or they just
let all of it out and they don'teven listen or look for that
(15:21):
connection anymore.
Because they're drivingeverybody away.
Because they're just spewing allthis stuff out constantly.
Now, if they have some kind of apersonality issue, what we used
to call the Cluster Bpersonality disorders, the
histrionic and the narcissisticand the paranoid, that's a
different issue.
Because they're probably goingto have that as one of their
(15:42):
issues is controlling peoplearound them and controlling the
narrative.
I'm not going to talk aboutthose issues today.
In the context of thisconversation, what I am going to
say is that if you do encountersomebody like that, it can make
you feel dysregulated.
So if your significant other isa narcissist, all the
(16:05):
gaslighting, all themanipulation, all the
controlling, all the nonsensethat goes on will be very
detrimental.
But you as the addict, if you donot have the skill set to be
able to kind of offload, if youwill, the things that you're
feeling.
you're going to be uncomfortableand it's intolerable because
(16:27):
there's no escape for it.
There's no way to deal with itbecause you learn as a kid that
nurturing is not possible.
So you don't know how toself-soothe.
You don't know how toself-regulate because you were
not taught how to do it by yourparent who was distracted,
abusive, addicted, or whatever.
It's not your fault.
It's not your fault that you'relike that.
(16:48):
But You have to relearn thoseskills.
So it feels uncomfortable totalk about things.
It feels uncomfortable to sharethings.
The experience of going into anAA or an NA or any other type of
meeting where you have to standor sometimes they sit, but
sometimes they stand and speakwhat you're feeling is extremely
(17:12):
uncomfortable, but it's all sovery necessary.
So being able to speak thosewords, I am angry because my
wife did such and such, or I'mupset because my dad or my mom
used to treat me this way as akid, and somebody is now
treating me that way, and itreally is upsetting me.
(17:36):
It's so uncomfortable to dothat, but it's so necessary.
Because when you speak the wordsof things that bother you, those
words become less powerful.
In your head, they're very loudand they're very powerful.
And that's where resentment andcontempt are built.
(17:56):
That's really the platform forthem.
I remember there was a time whenI had a client that came in who
had been married to somebodyfor, I don't know, probably 18,
19, 20 years, something likethat.
And they were never able to beheard.
Like the spouse would not hearthem.
(18:17):
And it was because there wasthis constant bullying kind of
behavior that would happen.
And so the bullying got to thepoint where my client just shut
down and felt powerless.
And they had been treated thatway as a child as well.
And so they were just kind offalling in line with what they
knew a relationship was.
(18:39):
look like because that's whatthey were raised with.
So I worked with this client forabout three or four months to
identify that and then spentmore time trying to figure out
how they could become moreself-empowered and to put some
boundaries around that behavior.
They were successful with it,but it took a long time.
(19:00):
It took probably about, I don'tknow, I think it was close to a
year for them to be able to feellike they could say something
and understand that that wastheir way to self-soothe, to
stand up for themselves.
As adults, we perhaps sometimesjust take it for granted that,
(19:22):
hey, I'm an adult.
I can stand up for myself.
But in reality, you may havelearned that that's not okay, so
you don't.
And so your version of standingup for yourself might look very
different if you come from thatbackground than somebody who was
taught how to self-soothe andhow to be able to accept right
and wrong from another personand say, hey, look, I don't like
(19:44):
that behavior.
Please don't speak to me thatway.
I don't like it when you dothat.
And to be heard.
It might just be like, if youcome from a background of
extreme abuse like that, itmight look more like you walked
away while they were beratingyou or trying to bully you.
(20:05):
That's your version of standingup for yourself.
And to a person who knows how todo that and understands about
self-soothing, walking awaymight seem like defeat.
And so it can look different fordifferent people.
But whatever it is, Theimportance of self-soothing and
(20:25):
being empowered to speak up foryourself and speak your
feelings.
That's why it's so important togo to meetings.
I just can't emphasize thatenough.
Going into the rooms and beingable to stand and say with no
crosstalk, no response fromanybody in a room of people who
have probably suffered the samethings that you're suffering
from.
(20:46):
I am so upset about this.
And you're saying it out loud.
You're saying it and otherpeople are bearing witness to
these problems.
I'm standing here in front ofthe microphone.
I'm waving my hands right now.
So I'm trying to emphasize this.
I am upset because this happenedand it made me feel like this
and like this and like this.
And it really made me want todrink because I was so
(21:08):
uncomfortable with this and Ididn't know what else to do.
And then there's silence.
And you're looking around theroom and you realize you just
said this to a group of people.
And it's almost like there's anecho in the room where you can
hear your own words kind ofechoing around.
And it's in your head that it'sechoing, but you're like, wow.
And then you sat down.
The secret power of being in theabout something you normally
(21:59):
would be very quiet about howthat helps you soothe and feel
less uncomfortable and so inrecovery it's important to be
able to put a voice to thethings that you feel And be able
to do it in that experiencewhere you're getting validation
and confirmation about howpowerful that feeling is and the
negativity.
(22:20):
It's so weird how it makes itnot as powerful to you.
And that is the secret ofrecovery is in a group.
We do not get into recovery inisolation.
We do it in a group.
So the action of learning how toself-soothe, and that's just one
example of how to do it, but howto self-soothe.
(22:41):
Boundaries, verbalizing things,getting it out, not letting it
fester and live in there and rotinside of you or cause you to be
angry or whatever, and then haveto use a chemical in the false
and misguided belief that thatis a good coping mechanism
because that's a faulty copingmechanism.
(23:02):
It's a trip to the morgue.
It's not a coping mechanism.
That is the magic of the processof recovery that will get you
there.
So learning how to self-soothe,you know, I don't like this and
so I'm going to stop thisconversation or I'm sorry, but I
(23:24):
don't really believe that thisis helping me right now.
So I think I'm going to end thiscall right now.
And it doesn't matter if you'redoing that with a relative or a
friend or whatever.
It's not worth trying to justpreserve the relationship, even
though that person is causing animmense amount of resentment in
(23:45):
you.
It's better to put a boundaryup.
And there is no rule anywherethat says you have to have a
relationship with anybody ifthey are being controlling,
abusive, or otherwisedestructive in your life.
You do not have to be in arelationship with that person.
You can stop it.
You can put a boundary aroundit.
You can regain control of thatdysfunctional, dysregulated
(24:07):
relationship.
It's perfectly fine.
And it will actually probablyserve you better because you're
going to live longer and ahealthier life because now
you're not using a faulty copingmechanism to deal with the crazy
in the relationship.
So please research and readabout find...
ways to learn aboutself-soothing because
(24:30):
self-soothing is the thing thatwe didn't learn as addicts.
We learned how to self-ridiculeand self-flagulate and
self-revulsion.
You know, just everything isself, pointed towards self.
I'm bad.
I hate this.
I don't like, you know, peopledon't like me.
I'm angry.
I'm resentful.
And then you just kind of meetthose expectations by acting
(24:54):
that way.
And that's not a good way toact.
UNKNOWN (24:57):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
another episode of Doc Jacques your addiction
lifeguard in the tank reallyappreciate you listening if you
do like these podcasts pleasecomment give me a like give me a
subscription you can reach outto me too through my website
wellspringmindbody.com and reachout to Doc Jacques the addiction
lifeguard and ask questions butyou know first and foremost hey
(25:24):
man start working on recovery ifyou're listening to this you
probably have some problems andyou need to deal with them so
seek out professional help.
Go to rehab.
Get a counselor.
Do something.
Go to the rooms.
Walk into AA or NA.
Be greeted by people just likeus.
But in the meantime, this is DocJacques saying I really
(25:44):
appreciate you listening andI'll catch you on the next
episode.
See ya.
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
As addicts, people usually use,because they feel uncomfortable,
(01:46):
That's generally what I keepsaying to everybody in these
podcasts.
The reason that we use isbecause we're uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable can come in manyforms.
It could come in the form ofsadness or anger or anxiety,
depression, mania, you know,something that just makes you
feel anxious.
It's discomfort, right?
(02:08):
And when we feel uncomfortable,we want to get rid of that
feeling.
Addicts have a horriblesituation where they can't get
rid of that feeling because Theyeither don't have an outlet for
it or they've learned not to sayanything or do anything about
it.
But sometimes it's because theyhave a background of trauma and
it's difficult in the earlystages anyway.
(02:30):
It's difficult, early stages ofaddiction.
It's difficult for people todeal with their feelings.
They can't manage them.
They can't regulate them.
They become dysregulated becausethey feel the experience
stronger than someone who hasnot suffered trauma.
In my practice, 100% of thepeople that come into my office,
if they have addiction, theyhave trauma, and it's usually in
(02:52):
childhood.
Sometimes, occasionally, but notoften, it's in adulthood.
Something else has happenedwhere somebody was killed or a
really, really contentiousdivorce at the hands of a
narcissist or something.
But it's trauma, and they don'trecognize it as trauma.
And that's because theyexperienced it as their life.
And so they didn't reallyunderstand it.
(03:13):
It was just kind of how thingswere.
So anyway, the reaction thatthey have is because they're
having a reaction not only tothe current situation, but also
to the past situation.
And what do you do when that ishappening, when you become
dysregulated?
Well, you use because you'reuncomfortable.
So then you start using and thatbecomes uncomfortable.
(03:35):
And it becomes this spiralingsituation.
uh, effect.
You know, when you're, when youare in that state of
dysregulation, trying to figureout how to, how to regulate, how
to re-regulate your body andyour mind, it's both.
And the research shows that themind, um, getting amped up makes
your body react, right?
(03:56):
It's a fight or flight or fawn,fight, flight, freeze, or fawn
situation.
And so you either want to runaway, you fight it, or you just
surrender.
Um, And it's difficult becausethat's the body's reaction.
So you have all this stuff andwe could talk about it, but it's
not the point of this podcast ofthe somatic responses to stress
(04:17):
and feeling uncomfortable.
But the body and the mind worktogether and the regulation and
or the dysregulation becomescombined.
So what do you do when you'refeeling that level of
dysregulation when you're notsure what it is or how that
works?
So when I'm working with clientswho are trying to work on
(04:42):
recovery, not necessarily theones that are in the middle of
usage, you've got to get them toabstain long enough to be able
to be reachable.
But the person who's working onrecovery, and let's say that
you're, I don't know, a month, amonth and a half into abstaining
and working on recovery.
(05:03):
And you get to the point whereyou're running into situations.
Maybe you're out of rehab.
You're living in a sober livinghouse.
Or maybe you've gone throughsome extensive counseling and
you've been working on recovery.
And you're at the point whereyou're starting to live your
life, a normal life.
You're trying to functionnormally in some ways.
Maybe you're going to school.
Maybe you're working part-timeat a sober job.
(05:25):
Maybe you're just trying toreintegrate into society.
And you don't have any majormental health diagnosis.
So in the clinical terms, wewould call that a dual diagnosis
where somebody has addiction andschizophrenia or addiction and
delusional thinking or theirschizoaffective disorder or
(05:47):
extreme psychopathy orsomething.
You don't have one of those, butyou just have...
kind of your average, like I'vegot major depressive disorder,
mild or moderate, or I haveanxiety or both, something like
that.
And you become dysregulatedbecause you're anxious or upset
about something that happens atwork or with a friend or where
you're living.
It is easy to to kind of tipthat scale into excessive
(06:12):
reaction to behaviors becauseyou don't know how to
self-regulate.
Perhaps you didn't learn that asa child.
Your parents were alcoholics ordrug addicts or they were
abusive and there was nonurturing or comforting going
on.
So you don't know how toself-regulate.
You weren't taught that.
So now you're having to learn itas an adult who's working on
recovery.
(06:32):
So the early stages of recoveryare about learning how to
self-regulate and to, in someinstances, You have to reparent
or self-parent because youdidn't have good parenting.
But it's the ability toself-regulate through
self-soothing.
And that's the missing piece isthe self-soothing piece.
(07:20):
for this happening.
They get a colonoscopy.
They get an endoscopy.
They can't find anything.
They don't have anything.
There's nothing really there.
Headaches, maybe they do a CTscan or something, an MRI.
They're complaining about severemigraines.
There's no real thing going onthere.
It's just the body is reactingsomatically, that's the term
(07:41):
that we use, somatic response, abody response, to the feelings
of dysregulation and discomfort.
And they are legitimate.
The pain is real, right?
It's just that the cause is notphysically there.
It's emotional.
It's a mental thing.
Irritable bowel syndrome is agood example of that.
Research is showing that mostirritable bowel syndrome
(08:03):
patients conditions can betreated by treating mental
health issues.
So you put the person onantidepressants or antipsychotic
medications to try to helpregulate their mood because that
is the issue.
Kelsey Grammer, the actor, hiswife had IBC really bad.
and irritable bowel or IBS,sorry, real bad.
(08:28):
And he was, he, I rememberlistening to an interview and he
was talking about how his wifehad finally been able to receive
treatment that was working.
And it was based on thepsychoactive drugs, psychotropic
drugs that were treating her fordepression.
And it manifested in that way.
And that, you know, the, thevagus nerve and the issues of
(08:52):
the neurons in the intestinaltract.
There's actual neurons, braincells, in the intestinal tract.
We've been able to identifythat.
So you can have somaticresponses to a level of
emotional upset.
And I've always found itfascinating that people who are
addicts really can't focus onconnection of that somatic
(09:16):
response to the experience thatthey're having that is upsetting
them.
They will feel powerless.
They will feel like there'snothing they can do about a
situation, and yet they haveextreme issues with bowel
movements, vomiting, ulcers.
(09:38):
IBS creeps in, migraineheadaches, things like that.
They never make that connection.
They never make the connectionthat feeling uncomfortable,
emotionally uncomfortable is thedriver for a thing that comes up
in the body.
And so teaching somebody how toself soothe.
(09:58):
is a challenge and it's evenmore of a challenge if you
happen to be involved withsomebody as a significant other
who is also dysregulated or hasa personality disorder.
They're narcissistic.
They're histrionic.
They're paranoid.
Their narcissism, it becomesgrandiose or it's covert or
(10:22):
something where there's a lot ofgaslighting, a lot of things
going on there in therelationship.
And so they have these somaticresponses to this stressor that
they have.
And to me, as a clinician, I'mtrying to help them bridge that
idea to get to the idea that,you know, your situation is that
(10:42):
you're feeling uncomfortable.
And so being uncomfortable, wecan treat that.
You've been self-treating itwith chemicals.
That's not working.
So we are going to work onlearning different skills.
And so the idea of I'muncomfortable, what do I do?
(11:03):
And so the analogy that I use iskind of like a a pressure
cooker.
And if you've ever seen, like mymom used to use a pressure
cooker.
It's a pot that has a lid thatclamps down really tight.
You fill it with food and waterand you put heat on it.
And then there's this weightthat sits on top of this little
valve on the top that steam isescaping from.
(11:24):
But you want a certain amount ofsteam to be in that pot to be
able to force the cooking.
And the whole point of apressure cooker is that you put
the food under pressure.
In other words, The water comesto a boil inside the pot.
It increases the atmosphericpressure in there.
And the heat becomes veryconcentrated with the steam.
(11:44):
And it cooks the food muchfaster.
And so there's shorter cookingtimes.
It's like the old school versionof a microwave, basically.
Or they have these new hotstoves.
I forget what they call them,the new type of cooking devices
that you put.
It's not necessarily the same asa pressure cooker, but similar.
Anyway, the idea is that, youknow, when life is what you're
(12:10):
living, and so you put your foodand your water in that pressure
cooker and you put the top onit.
If you put the weight on thetop, a little bit of the steam
escapes.
And after 15 minutes or 20minutes, your food is magically
cooked to perfection.
if you leave that little weighton there.
If you take the weight off, allof the steam escapes almost
(12:30):
immediately and then you're leftwith nothing in there to do the
cooking.
And so your food just burns upand that's a waste.
If you plug up that hole and youdon't let any of the steam
escape, then the pressure buildsup and it explodes.
So what you wanna do in thatanalogy is be like the pressure
(12:54):
cooker with a weight on top.
You want a little bit of thesteam to come out, but not all
of it, but you also want some ofthat steam to stay in there
because it's helpful and it doesthe cooking.
So to me, It seems like theanalogy, every time I say that,
it's funny, the people that arelistening to it, they just don't
get it at first.
(13:14):
And I say, you know what?
You know what that weight isthat's helping with the steam
escaping a little bit?
That's your connection to otherpeople.
That's going to meetings.
That's getting in the recoverycommunity.
That is your chance to let alittle bit of the steam out.
So it's important to have thosenumbers of your sponsor or other
(13:35):
people in recovery.
Because they get it.
So they're like the weight ontop of that little nipple that's
sticking up where all the steamis coming out.
You get a chance to saysomething, right?
That is what when you're raisingchildren the right way, you give
them a voice to express.
their feelings about what'supsetting them but you don't
(13:56):
just take away all theresponsibility for everything
that they are responsible forthat's lifting the weight off
because then all the steamescapes and now you've burned up
your food you do that with achild like you just you just
overly indulge that that feelingand you focus too much on it it
becomes useless it's now you'rejust you're creating a huge mess
(14:19):
if you don't let that childspeak you don't let that child
express their feelings or tellyou like what what's wrong tell
me what's wrong and let them doit you're plugging them up.
You shut them down, you'replugging up that hole.
And you're eventually going toget a kid who starts acting out.
They start exploding.
They will hit people.
They will scream.
They'll bite.
(14:39):
They'll kick.
If they're two or three yearsold.
If they get a little bit older,they become very, very
challenging and difficult.
They become very angry and theystart lashing out physically.
And a 15-year-old hittinganother kid is different than a
3-year-old hitting.
Trust me.
And they become very explosiveand difficult to deal with.
(15:01):
So we want to find that happymedium.
Well, that's what they didn'tget.
Many of my clients who come inwho have addiction issues, they
do not know how to expressthings.
They either bottle them up andnever let them out, or they just
let all of it out and they don'teven listen or look for that
(15:21):
connection anymore.
Because they're drivingeverybody away.
Because they're just spewing allthis stuff out constantly.
Now, if they have some kind of apersonality issue, what we used
to call the Cluster Bpersonality disorders, the
histrionic and the narcissisticand the paranoid, that's a
different issue.
Because they're probably goingto have that as one of their
(15:42):
issues is controlling peoplearound them and controlling the
narrative.
I'm not going to talk aboutthose issues today.
In the context of thisconversation, what I am going to
say is that if you do encountersomebody like that, it can make
you feel dysregulated.
So if your significant other isa narcissist, all the
(16:05):
gaslighting, all themanipulation, all the
controlling, all the nonsensethat goes on will be very
detrimental.
But you as the addict, if you donot have the skill set to be
able to kind of offload, if youwill, the things that you're
feeling.
you're going to be uncomfortableand it's intolerable because
(16:27):
there's no escape for it.
There's no way to deal with itbecause you learn as a kid that
nurturing is not possible.
So you don't know how toself-soothe.
You don't know how toself-regulate because you were
not taught how to do it by yourparent who was distracted,
abusive, addicted, or whatever.
It's not your fault.
It's not your fault that you'relike that.
(16:48):
But You have to relearn thoseskills.
So it feels uncomfortable totalk about things.
It feels uncomfortable to sharethings.
The experience of going into anAA or an NA or any other type of
meeting where you have to standor sometimes they sit, but
sometimes they stand and speakwhat you're feeling is extremely
(17:12):
uncomfortable, but it's all sovery necessary.
So being able to speak thosewords, I am angry because my
wife did such and such, or I'mupset because my dad or my mom
used to treat me this way as akid, and somebody is now
treating me that way, and itreally is upsetting me.
(17:36):
It's so uncomfortable to dothat, but it's so necessary.
Because when you speak the wordsof things that bother you, those
words become less powerful.
In your head, they're very loudand they're very powerful.
And that's where resentment andcontempt are built.
(17:56):
That's really the platform forthem.
I remember there was a time whenI had a client that came in who
had been married to somebodyfor, I don't know, probably 18,
19, 20 years, something likethat.
And they were never able to beheard.
Like the spouse would not hearthem.
(18:17):
And it was because there wasthis constant bullying kind of
behavior that would happen.
And so the bullying got to thepoint where my client just shut
down and felt powerless.
And they had been treated thatway as a child as well.
And so they were just kind offalling in line with what they
knew a relationship was.
(18:39):
look like because that's whatthey were raised with.
So I worked with this client forabout three or four months to
identify that and then spentmore time trying to figure out
how they could become moreself-empowered and to put some
boundaries around that behavior.
They were successful with it,but it took a long time.
(19:00):
It took probably about, I don'tknow, I think it was close to a
year for them to be able to feellike they could say something
and understand that that wastheir way to self-soothe, to
stand up for themselves.
As adults, we perhaps sometimesjust take it for granted that,
(19:22):
hey, I'm an adult.
I can stand up for myself.
But in reality, you may havelearned that that's not okay, so
you don't.
And so your version of standingup for yourself might look very
different if you come from thatbackground than somebody who was
taught how to self-soothe andhow to be able to accept right
and wrong from another personand say, hey, look, I don't like
(19:44):
that behavior.
Please don't speak to me thatway.
I don't like it when you dothat.
And to be heard.
It might just be like, if youcome from a background of
extreme abuse like that, itmight look more like you walked
away while they were beratingyou or trying to bully you.
(20:05):
That's your version of standingup for yourself.
And to a person who knows how todo that and understands about
self-soothing, walking awaymight seem like defeat.
And so it can look different fordifferent people.
But whatever it is, Theimportance of self-soothing and
(20:25):
being empowered to speak up foryourself and speak your
feelings.
That's why it's so important togo to meetings.
I just can't emphasize thatenough.
Going into the rooms and beingable to stand and say with no
crosstalk, no response fromanybody in a room of people who
have probably suffered the samethings that you're suffering
from.
(20:46):
I am so upset about this.
And you're saying it out loud.
You're saying it and otherpeople are bearing witness to
these problems.
I'm standing here in front ofthe microphone.
I'm waving my hands right now.
So I'm trying to emphasize this.
I am upset because this happenedand it made me feel like this
and like this and like this.
And it really made me want todrink because I was so
(21:08):
uncomfortable with this and Ididn't know what else to do.
And then there's silence.
And you're looking around theroom and you realize you just
said this to a group of people.
And it's almost like there's anecho in the room where you can
hear your own words kind ofechoing around.
And it's in your head that it'sechoing, but you're like, wow.
And then you sat down.
The secret power of being in theabout something you normally
(21:59):
would be very quiet about howthat helps you soothe and feel
less uncomfortable and so inrecovery it's important to be
able to put a voice to thethings that you feel And be able
to do it in that experiencewhere you're getting validation
and confirmation about howpowerful that feeling is and the
negativity.
(22:20):
It's so weird how it makes itnot as powerful to you.
And that is the secret ofrecovery is in a group.
We do not get into recovery inisolation.
We do it in a group.
So the action of learning how toself-soothe, and that's just one
example of how to do it, but howto self-soothe.
(22:41):
Boundaries, verbalizing things,getting it out, not letting it
fester and live in there and rotinside of you or cause you to be
angry or whatever, and then haveto use a chemical in the false
and misguided belief that thatis a good coping mechanism
because that's a faulty copingmechanism.
(23:02):
It's a trip to the morgue.
It's not a coping mechanism.
That is the magic of the processof recovery that will get you
there.
So learning how to self-soothe,you know, I don't like this and
so I'm going to stop thisconversation or I'm sorry, but I
(23:24):
don't really believe that thisis helping me right now.
So I think I'm going to end thiscall right now.
And it doesn't matter if you'redoing that with a relative or a
friend or whatever.
It's not worth trying to justpreserve the relationship, even
though that person is causing animmense amount of resentment in
(23:45):
you.
It's better to put a boundaryup.
And there is no rule anywherethat says you have to have a
relationship with anybody ifthey are being controlling,
abusive, or otherwisedestructive in your life.
You do not have to be in arelationship with that person.
You can stop it.
You can put a boundary aroundit.
You can regain control of thatdysfunctional, dysregulated
(24:07):
relationship.
It's perfectly fine.
And it will actually probablyserve you better because you're
going to live longer and ahealthier life because now
you're not using a faulty copingmechanism to deal with the crazy
in the relationship.
So please research and readabout find...
ways to learn aboutself-soothing because
(24:30):
self-soothing is the thing thatwe didn't learn as addicts.
We learned how to self-ridiculeand self-flagulate and
self-revulsion.
You know, just everything isself, pointed towards self.
I'm bad.
I hate this.
I don't like, you know, peopledon't like me.
I'm angry.
I'm resentful.
And then you just kind of meetthose expectations by acting
(24:54):
that way.
And that's not a good way toact.
UNKNOWN (24:57):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
another episode of Doc Jacques your addiction
lifeguard in the tank reallyappreciate you listening if you
do like these podcasts pleasecomment give me a like give me a
subscription you can reach outto me too through my website
wellspringmindbody.com and reachout to Doc Jacques the addiction
lifeguard and ask questions butyou know first and foremost hey
(25:24):
man start working on recovery ifyou're listening to this you
probably have some problems andyou need to deal with them so
seek out professional help.
Go to rehab.
Get a counselor.
Do something.
Go to the rooms.
Walk into AA or NA.
Be greeted by people just likeus.
But in the meantime, this is DocJacques saying I really
(25:44):
appreciate you listening andI'll catch you on the next
episode.
See ya.
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