April 25, 2025 • 27 mins
Why is it important to find a good therapist? And how do you know if you found one that is good? Let's find out.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
UNKNOWN (01:19):
music music
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
I see people as a therapist every day and many
times those people that come tome they if it's an individual
sometimes a spouse will come inand they'll talk to me with with
the client and we're sittingthere and then at the end of the
session the person that came inwith my client will say do you
(01:47):
know of somebody that that Icould see do you have a
therapist that you wouldrecommend and that's a really
tough one I don't know you knowall over the this country at
least, and I know I've gotlisteners all over the world,
Europe and Australia andGermany, whatever.
I'm not sure exactly what thelandscape of therapists look
like in those countries.
(02:09):
But here in the States, ifsomebody says, hey, do you know
a therapist that I could see?
It's kind of difficult for me,especially if I've only met them
one time, to know You know, ifif if somebody I would suggest
is a good match for them, it'sreally tough and it's an
important thing for them to tohave the trust that they've
(02:31):
given to me that I that I givethat trust or that I invest in
that trust with them and try tofind somebody that's good for
them.
Also, people will be referred tome or they'll come in.
You know, they look me up onPsychology Today or maybe they
do a Google search and they findme and they are looking for
somebody.
(02:52):
And they come in, and one of thefirst things I tell them is,
hey, look, if my approach orwhat I'm saying to you is not
connecting with you in any way,or you're not getting what you
want to get from this session,that's fine.
I don't take it personally.
I'm a professional.
And you've got to match withyour therapist.
The client and the therapisthave to match.
(03:14):
Because you're going to be goingthrough some tough stuff with
those people.
And When you're going throughthose things, you got to be able
to sit there with a therapistand have the therapist say some
some difficult things with you,you know, that you're maybe
struggling with that you don'twant to hear like, hey, you
know, you're being too this oryou're being too that or you
(03:36):
seem to have trouble withrelationships and perhaps it's
you, you know.
So to be able to tolerate thatwith somebody who's a therapist,
you're really going to have agood relationship, a trusting
one.
They're not trying to manipulateyou or hurt you.
They're trying to help you.
So when somebody asked me, hey,do you have somebody that you
would recommend?
There are two therapists.
(03:59):
Now I have in my geographiclocation, I mean, there's a lot
of therapists where I live.
I'm in a major metropolitan areaand one that is extremely
affluent.
So there, there are a lot oftherapists here.
Um, if you live in a smallerarea, smaller town or city,
there might not be as manytherapists.
(04:20):
Um, or you, you know, in today'sclimate, you might have to
resort to doing, uh, therapywork online.
So how do you, what do I tellpeople?
Well, you know, sometimes what Ido is, you know, if they come in
and they, asking that questionand I say, look, you know,
you're going to have to probablysee two or three or four
(04:40):
therapists before you find onethat you actually connect with.
And that's okay.
So if you go see them and it'snot, you know, you're not
connecting with them in someway, you've got to be able to
say that.
And when you say that to them,they shouldn't be taking offense
to it and they shouldn't, youknow, but it's like, it's okay
(05:01):
to, to, to shop for therapistsand, Um, the other part is that
the, how you find them is atough one.
Um, I look for, uh, therapists,if I'm, you know, if I'm trying
to find somebody to talk to, uh,I'll go on psychology today and
look because it's the, it wasthe first real directory
(05:22):
resource.
And so it's always been thegiant of the therapy resources
for people to, to, uh, lookingfor therapists.
And it's a good way to kind ofget an idea of at least, you
know, what the person says thattheir area of expertise is or
their emphasis area of clienttypes that they will focus on.
(05:44):
That's a big deal.
The other one is that it'simportant that you, when you're
looking for a therapist, thatyou look for somebody that you
know is a match in some way.
And I guess the question is,like, what do you mean by match?
Well, that's a good question.
What's a match with a therapist?
(06:26):
Having a male therapist andthat's okay.
It's okay that that's the case.
It's not, you know, bad that youcan't tolerate being around a
male therapist because you'reAbuser was male.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's a normal thing.
But if if so, who what kind ofperson am I going to invest in
and trust?
You know, there are all kinds ofdifferent people who are
(06:49):
therapists.
And frankly, some of us arereally odd.
I wish I wish that were not thecase.
But so some therapists arereally odd.
And if if there's somethingabout the person that is
distracting to you.
It could be something as simpleas their height, or their
(07:09):
gender, or the color of theirhair, or they dress strangely to
you.
It's distracting.
It's not okay for you to be withthat therapist.
You do not have to be tolerantin a therapist-client
environment.
I don't think that's anappropriate scale or measure.
(07:30):
to decide if you should becomfortable with your therapist
because they are.
And you can enter in whateveryou want.
And I know that's completelyagainst what, you know, has been
in the last 10 years, thesocietal push towards tolerance
and all that.
This is about your mental healthand your well-being.
So you have to be comfortable toreveal things to somebody.
(07:53):
And so, no, there's I don'tthink there's any room for this
woke kind of politically correctviewpoint when you're connecting
with a person.
You connect with, in atherapeutic setting, whoever it
is that you connect with, right?
As long as it's a good reasonfor connecting with them.
(08:14):
If it's you're attracted to themand that's a problem, that's
going to be a distraction.
So, you know, it can besomething that's positive or
negative.
But in other words, when youwalk in to see your therapist,
just like everybody else, you'regoing to have a first
impression.
And that's the one that'sprobably going to last for a
while.
So I, as a therapist, don'texpect my clients to connect
(08:42):
with me.
Just because they made theappointment and they walked in
the door, I know that there aregoing to be clients that I meet
with and the work's not going tohappen.
And it's okay.
I'm fine with that.
Now, there's a differencebetween I'm being super picky...
So I can't tolerate anythingbecause I really don't want to
(09:04):
be engaging in therapy and usingany excuse to get out of that
situation, includingnonsensical, I don't connect
with my therapist when youactually could.
Some people will use that as anexcuse to Dr.
Hop, if you will.
therapist hop and then they cansay, well, I went to like six
(09:27):
therapists and I didn't reallyfind anybody that I connected
with.
So I just I just I it's not forme.
Therapy is not for me.
And I've had people use that asan excuse to get out of therapy
when they were supposed to begoing to therapy.
Really, they needed it.
And the timing of it too isimportant.
Is this a time when you actuallyare prepared to do the work?
(09:51):
And I'm using my little fingerquotes, the work.
And if you're ready to do thework, this is the time.
If you're not really ready to doit, you know, should you be in
therapy in that moment?
You know, maybe wait a week ortwo.
Because what happens when yousee a therapist that you're
actually connecting with isyou're going to feel something.
(10:13):
It's going to make you think.
It's going to make you feel.
So what I found is when I'vebeen in situations where I go to
therapy and I leave thetherapist's office and I'm still
thinking.
I'm still in that place.
I'm still driving my car downthe road and I'm still mulling
stuff over.
I know I've seen the rightperson.
(10:35):
If I walk out of the room andI'm just on to the next thing,
that means there was no hit inmy emotional soul.
Like there was nothing touched.
And so I'm probably seeing thewrong therapist.
That's how I looked at it.
So I would go see a therapistand I'd sit there and the guy is
(10:57):
just sitting across the roomfrom me and I'm talking and he's
just doing the whole, like, Idon't know, person-centered or
Freudian thing where they'rejust kind of looking at you and
going, uh-huh, okay, uh-huh.
And I'm getting no feedback.
That, to me, drives me nuts.
And I'm not going back to thatperson because they're not for
(11:17):
me.
It's not that they're notcompetent.
It's just that their style isnot what I need.
So if you are working onyourself, whether it's because
of addiction or because of someother reason, You've got to find
somebody that you connect with.
That's the really importantpart.
The work you do with a therapistis one where the minute you come
(11:39):
in to see that therapist, theyshould already be thinking about
discharging you.
In other words, they're tryingto work themselves out of a job.
And I think I've said this inpodcasts in the past.
I'm absolutely certain I have.
A good therapist is one thatthey expect the therapeutic
relationship to be very timelimited.
And they should be thinkingabout how do I get this person
(12:02):
moving towards recovery fromtheir problems that they have,
depression, anxiety, trauma,work through their addiction
issues.
And then you're finished withthat and you move on.
Now, I have people who I've beenseeing, a few people I've been
seeing for years, and thenthey're are some people that I
(12:22):
see for three to six months andwe're finished with our work.
It's whatever you need.
And so as a therapist, I look atit like, what does this client
need?
Some need support in a way thatthey do not have in their
everyday life.
Maybe they, they have a limitedamount of relationships.
(12:43):
They didn't get married.
They don't have a significantother.
They really struggle and theydon't have that emotional
connection and they need to talkthrough their, their week,
their, their existence thatweek, the tough decisions
they've had to make.
Um, I've had clients who I'vebeen with them through a
(13:04):
divorce, a remarriage, a child,a child growing up.
I mean, their struggles are notsignificant, but they have
nobody that they really can workthrough their issues.
Those are the exceptions to thetime-limited thing, and I don't
have very many of those.
(13:25):
And we do talk aboutoccasionally, you know, do you
think it's time for you to Tostart doing stuff on your own.
But you can always come back.
But you know.
We have those conversations.
And so I look at those very fewpeople.
That I have.
One or two.
That are like that.
And I'm okay with that.
(13:46):
It's like every other week.
Tune up if you will.
But a majority of the clientsthat I have.
I know are very very timelimited.
They're in recovery.
And they're working throughtheir.
post rehab, one and a half totwo years of, of work on
recovery.
And it's really interesting whenI, when they, when they go
(14:06):
through that process, they startfeeling better.
Um, and I, I have the luxury ofbeing able to see it.
And that's, that's a greatreward for me is when I see them
getting to a better place.
And that's awesome when I seethat.
Um, the other Another factor toconsider when you're trying to
find a therapist that works foryou is one of, are they
(14:31):
structured enough?
with their time.
In other words, do they scheduleyou for the same time, same day
each week, or are you scatteringyourself all over the place?
One of the real warning signs Isee with people that I'm working
with, I know that it's probablynot going to be effective for
them is that they never seem to,um, want to adhere to a Tuesday
(14:53):
at two o'clock.
That's your therapy time.
They're all over the place.
Um, They're changing days.
They're changing times.
They miss two or three weeks ina row.
That person is not in a serioustherapeutic process.
They're probably doing itbecause somebody is watching or
demanding that they get intotherapy.
(15:15):
And I don't have a lot ofsuccess with people like that
because they're not committed tothe therapeutic process, if you
will.
And for me as a therapist, whenI say that, I mean...
encountering self embracing selfchanging self they're not
they're not there so they'rejust doing it because somebody
wants them to do it and that'snot a good one the other one is
(15:37):
the person who and this is justa this is a really new thing for
me um since the coronavirusbecause i just i never closed my
office i didn't stop seeingpeople in person i refused to do
that nonsense And I did not wantto do remote sessions.
I have since learned how to doit out of necessity, not because
of the coronavirus, but becausepeople it's easier sometimes for
(16:03):
people to find the therapistthey connect with and geography.
is a challenge.
So I'm licensed in four statesand I have clients in four
states.
And now we have a interstatecompact that is available to us.
So we can actually seetherapists in a lot of different
states, not all the states, buta lot of different states.
(16:24):
I've also had clients that wereout of the country that I've
worked with.
And so the online thing is agreat tool.
I encourage my clients ifthey're ever in my area, They
come and see me in person.
Conversely, when I go to thelocations where I have clients
and I try to do this a coupletimes a year, I will see my
(16:48):
clients in person because Ithink that human connection is
important.
Not absolutely necessary, butit's important.
But the ability to connectperson to person is really
important.
So if you can do that.
But my point being that thegeographic limitation that we
(17:09):
had, especially if you're in asmall town with no therapists or
very limited therapistopportunities or options, is to
get online and find therapistswho will see you.
If you're in Florida, I can seeyou.
If you're in North Carolina, Ican see you.
If you're in If you're in Texas,I can see you.
If you're in Virginia, I can seeyou.
(17:31):
And then the other states thatare in the compact, and I think
there are 30 states right now inthe interstate compact, I can
see you.
And I do see people in otherstates remotely, some of whom I
have never actually met inperson.
And so you have to be able to becomfortable with that, but you
have to engage in that.
(17:54):
During the coronavirus, a lot ofpeople were forced into working
remotely.
I found that working with kidsremotely, kids being teenagers,
the youngest I ever had was 13,impossible to do.
They did not want to be oncamera.
(18:14):
They didn't want to show theirface.
And I can't, I can't work withsomebody who's not going to be
willing to turn their camera on.
So just be there.
But the other side of that isyou have to take it seriously.
I have clients who I will seeremotely and they will be
driving their car.
While I'm trying to do a sessionand it drives me insane.
(18:37):
I cannot see a client who isdriving their car.
They put their camera on, theyput their phone down and I'm
staring up at the headliner intheir car while I'm talking to
them and they're talking to me.
I can't do that.
I will stop them and say,listen, you need to either park
(18:58):
your car so we can have a propersession or we're going to have
to reschedule this.
But I cannot do this with youdriving your car.
Being in your car is finebecause sometimes that's where
people can have privacy.
So it's like the old Get Smartshow with the dome of silence
coming down over Maxwell Smartand the chief.
(19:20):
So you're in your car and it'sprivate and it's quiet and
you're there and you can dothat.
Awesome.
That's good.
But doing remote sessions is abit of a challenge about
privacy.
So that's a consideration.
But if you're in an area whereyou have limited resources, you
have limited availability oftherapists, it doesn't mean you
(19:41):
can't find somebody.
So if you look in another area,you might be able to, you know,
if you go on Psychology Today,for example, and you do a search
in your area and you come upwith nothing, look in major
cities.
Look in L.A.
Look in Miami.
Look in Washington, D.C.
Look in Northern Virginia.
Look in Atlanta.
You'll find therapists whospecialize in addiction.
(20:04):
and, uh, trauma work and you'llfind them and they do online
sessions, you know, ring themup, uh, see if you can do a
session.
If you connect, um, it's a greatway to, to, to get a resource
that, you know, 15 years ago,basically didn't exist.
Um, just, you gotta make surethat you get a therapist who's
skilled and skilled at, at thetwo-dimensional flat screen
(20:28):
connectivity which is always achallenge but the importance of
the therapist is one is they area guide to help you to help you
through your uh your yourprocess of change and
identification of problems andthat's the purpose of therapy so
when you're doing uh when you'remeeting with your therapist
(20:50):
tendency to soften the blowminimize the problems not talk
about the issues not getinvolved in in the things that
are really troubling you lookthat's not going to do you any
good it's not helping you andit's certainly not helping the
therapist do their job so youhave to be you have to be
(21:11):
fearless in how you areapproaching what's going on and
I'm going to say this, and Iwant you to take this for what
it's worth.
If you have things that you feelembarrassed about or upset
about, and you don't normallytalk about it to anyone, or
(21:34):
maybe you've never talked aboutit to anyone, your therapist is
the person that you should betalking to about those things.
So summoning up the courage tosay what you need to say to a
therapist is very very importantthat you that you do that that
you are able to say the thingsout loud that have become very
(21:59):
problematic for you in your lifeso if you were molested as a
child if you I've had people saythat they were on the verge of
killing somebody and theystopped because they were so
enraged because that person wasabusive to them and Or you were
(22:20):
humiliated by your parents at apoint in your life, and you keep
wanting to not think about it orrecall it, but you're having
this residual emotional effectof it.
That is what the point oftherapy is, to be able to do
that.
I believe that when you talkabout those things...
They become way less powerful inyour life.
(22:42):
They're not a driving force.
Someone else knows.
And it's interesting whensomebody says something, and if
you have a good therapist,you'll have this.
I've had occasion where I'veheard about questionable therapy
practices that engage insomething different.
But when you say something tosomebody and they're exercising
very positive personal regardtowards you, about whatever it
(23:04):
is that you feel anger or shameor horrible about and you say it
and they're accepting of youanyway.
Think about how powerful thatis.
In a therapeutic process, that'swhat happens.
That you can say things and youcan gauge the reaction to it
that may be different than youhave received in the past.
(23:25):
So if, for example, I've hadclients who were molested as
children and it's very shamefulto them.
They've never said anything toanybody.
Or if they've said something, itwas...
They were blamed for it or theywere attacked because they said
it.
There was some consequence thatwas negative for saying it.
So then they never said itagain.
And it held a power positionover their lives.
(23:50):
It was powerful over their life.
And when they said it out loudto somebody who sat there and
just...
accepted them anyway and didn'tblame them and didn't attack
them and didn't tell them thatthey should do this or that to
get over it but just acceptedthem for what they just
explained to and they said outloud to them that is a very
powerful moment and can be acathartic moment and a healing
(24:15):
moment it allows the untold tobe surfaced and to not be so
devastating to that individualso The process of therapy is one
that takes time and revealing ofstuff and depending on how bad
your stuff is, how serious itwas, how difficult it is for
(24:37):
you, the longer it can take.
And that's okay.
There's no time limit.
I'm always cautious abouttherapists who overstay their
welcome, so to speak, in thatperson's life.
And that's just a very bad signwhen somebody does that.
But on the other hand, I'm veryencouraged when I have clients
who say, look, I was in therapylike five years ago and it just
(25:00):
didn't seem like I got much outof it.
And I'm like, oh, how long wereyou in therapy?
And I was like, oh, you know,three months, six months, a
year.
I said, well, you didn't getanything out of it and you were
there for a year?
And they look at me and they go,yeah.
And I'm like, why was yourtherapist continuing to see you
then?
It's like they should havereferred you out to somebody,
(25:21):
you know, or...
Hey, this is the time for you tomaybe do that.
Is that why you're coming?
That's why you're here now?
Because you really want to dothe work?
And it's like, yeah, well, maybeyou weren't ready to do it then.
You thought about it, but maybeyou just weren't ready.
And so you just were kind ofturtling, so to speak, and
hiding in your shell because theoutside world was too...
(25:45):
I don't know, too dangerous, ifyou will, to do that work.
You weren't prepared.
Whatever the case may be, itdoesn't matter.
But keep working on that.
Keep working on yourself.
Find a good therapist.
And if you can't find one inyour area, please get online and
find one.
and see if you can get the help.
(26:06):
I see people all the time that Ihave never met.
They heard a podcast, they sawme on YouTube or something.
They read something I put outthere and they're like, hey man,
I like what you said about blah,blah, blah.
And so I thought I'd call youand see if you could help me.
I hear that occasionally from myclients and I have clients every
(26:26):
month that I see that are inthat situation.
So I would encourage you to tryto do that.
and see if you can find a goodtherapist.
And if you can't, call me.
I can be your therapist.
But go to those directoryresources and find help.
Don't suffer in silence or inlong term.
(26:51):
There's no need to suffer.
Get the help.
That's another episode of DocShock, your addiction lifeguard.
Hey, if you are looking forhelp, you can reach out to me
through my website,bullspringmindbody.com, and I
will try to help you.
If you like this podcast, pleasesuggest it to somebody else.
Like it, subscribe, comment, andkeep listening.
(27:14):
And if you have suggestions forthings that you'd like to hear,
please keep the emails comingand let me know.
And if you're looking for atherapist, like I said, find
one.
Because it's not really worthending your life because you're
trying to save your addiction.
Is it?
That makes no sense.
That's crazy.
So get the help and go to arehab.
(27:36):
Go see a counselor.
Just do something.
Well, this is Doc Jacques, youraddiction lifeguard, saying
until next time, see ya.
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
UNKNOWN (01:19):
music music
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
I see people as a therapist every day and many
times those people that come tome they if it's an individual
sometimes a spouse will come inand they'll talk to me with with
the client and we're sittingthere and then at the end of the
session the person that came inwith my client will say do you
(01:47):
know of somebody that that Icould see do you have a
therapist that you wouldrecommend and that's a really
tough one I don't know you knowall over the this country at
least, and I know I've gotlisteners all over the world,
Europe and Australia andGermany, whatever.
I'm not sure exactly what thelandscape of therapists look
like in those countries.
(02:09):
But here in the States, ifsomebody says, hey, do you know
a therapist that I could see?
It's kind of difficult for me,especially if I've only met them
one time, to know You know, ifif if somebody I would suggest
is a good match for them, it'sreally tough and it's an
important thing for them to tohave the trust that they've
(02:31):
given to me that I that I givethat trust or that I invest in
that trust with them and try tofind somebody that's good for
them.
Also, people will be referred tome or they'll come in.
You know, they look me up onPsychology Today or maybe they
do a Google search and they findme and they are looking for
somebody.
(02:52):
And they come in, and one of thefirst things I tell them is,
hey, look, if my approach orwhat I'm saying to you is not
connecting with you in any way,or you're not getting what you
want to get from this session,that's fine.
I don't take it personally.
I'm a professional.
And you've got to match withyour therapist.
The client and the therapisthave to match.
(03:14):
Because you're going to be goingthrough some tough stuff with
those people.
And When you're going throughthose things, you got to be able
to sit there with a therapistand have the therapist say some
some difficult things with you,you know, that you're maybe
struggling with that you don'twant to hear like, hey, you
know, you're being too this oryou're being too that or you
(03:36):
seem to have trouble withrelationships and perhaps it's
you, you know.
So to be able to tolerate thatwith somebody who's a therapist,
you're really going to have agood relationship, a trusting
one.
They're not trying to manipulateyou or hurt you.
They're trying to help you.
So when somebody asked me, hey,do you have somebody that you
would recommend?
There are two therapists.
(03:59):
Now I have in my geographiclocation, I mean, there's a lot
of therapists where I live.
I'm in a major metropolitan areaand one that is extremely
affluent.
So there, there are a lot oftherapists here.
Um, if you live in a smallerarea, smaller town or city,
there might not be as manytherapists.
(04:20):
Um, or you, you know, in today'sclimate, you might have to
resort to doing, uh, therapywork online.
So how do you, what do I tellpeople?
Well, you know, sometimes what Ido is, you know, if they come in
and they, asking that questionand I say, look, you know,
you're going to have to probablysee two or three or four
(04:40):
therapists before you find onethat you actually connect with.
And that's okay.
So if you go see them and it'snot, you know, you're not
connecting with them in someway, you've got to be able to
say that.
And when you say that to them,they shouldn't be taking offense
to it and they shouldn't, youknow, but it's like, it's okay
(05:01):
to, to, to shop for therapistsand, Um, the other part is that
the, how you find them is atough one.
Um, I look for, uh, therapists,if I'm, you know, if I'm trying
to find somebody to talk to, uh,I'll go on psychology today and
look because it's the, it wasthe first real directory
(05:22):
resource.
And so it's always been thegiant of the therapy resources
for people to, to, uh, lookingfor therapists.
And it's a good way to kind ofget an idea of at least, you
know, what the person says thattheir area of expertise is or
their emphasis area of clienttypes that they will focus on.
(05:44):
That's a big deal.
The other one is that it'simportant that you, when you're
looking for a therapist, thatyou look for somebody that you
know is a match in some way.
And I guess the question is,like, what do you mean by match?
Well, that's a good question.
What's a match with a therapist?
(06:26):
Having a male therapist andthat's okay.
It's okay that that's the case.
It's not, you know, bad that youcan't tolerate being around a
male therapist because you'reAbuser was male.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's a normal thing.
But if if so, who what kind ofperson am I going to invest in
and trust?
You know, there are all kinds ofdifferent people who are
(06:49):
therapists.
And frankly, some of us arereally odd.
I wish I wish that were not thecase.
But so some therapists arereally odd.
And if if there's somethingabout the person that is
distracting to you.
It could be something as simpleas their height, or their
(07:09):
gender, or the color of theirhair, or they dress strangely to
you.
It's distracting.
It's not okay for you to be withthat therapist.
You do not have to be tolerantin a therapist-client
environment.
I don't think that's anappropriate scale or measure.
(07:30):
to decide if you should becomfortable with your therapist
because they are.
And you can enter in whateveryou want.
And I know that's completelyagainst what, you know, has been
in the last 10 years, thesocietal push towards tolerance
and all that.
This is about your mental healthand your well-being.
So you have to be comfortable toreveal things to somebody.
(07:53):
And so, no, there's I don'tthink there's any room for this
woke kind of politically correctviewpoint when you're connecting
with a person.
You connect with, in atherapeutic setting, whoever it
is that you connect with, right?
As long as it's a good reasonfor connecting with them.
(08:14):
If it's you're attracted to themand that's a problem, that's
going to be a distraction.
So, you know, it can besomething that's positive or
negative.
But in other words, when youwalk in to see your therapist,
just like everybody else, you'regoing to have a first
impression.
And that's the one that'sprobably going to last for a
while.
So I, as a therapist, don'texpect my clients to connect
(08:42):
with me.
Just because they made theappointment and they walked in
the door, I know that there aregoing to be clients that I meet
with and the work's not going tohappen.
And it's okay.
I'm fine with that.
Now, there's a differencebetween I'm being super picky...
So I can't tolerate anythingbecause I really don't want to
(09:04):
be engaging in therapy and usingany excuse to get out of that
situation, includingnonsensical, I don't connect
with my therapist when youactually could.
Some people will use that as anexcuse to Dr.
Hop, if you will.
therapist hop and then they cansay, well, I went to like six
(09:27):
therapists and I didn't reallyfind anybody that I connected
with.
So I just I just I it's not forme.
Therapy is not for me.
And I've had people use that asan excuse to get out of therapy
when they were supposed to begoing to therapy.
Really, they needed it.
And the timing of it too isimportant.
Is this a time when you actuallyare prepared to do the work?
(09:51):
And I'm using my little fingerquotes, the work.
And if you're ready to do thework, this is the time.
If you're not really ready to doit, you know, should you be in
therapy in that moment?
You know, maybe wait a week ortwo.
Because what happens when yousee a therapist that you're
actually connecting with isyou're going to feel something.
(10:13):
It's going to make you think.
It's going to make you feel.
So what I found is when I'vebeen in situations where I go to
therapy and I leave thetherapist's office and I'm still
thinking.
I'm still in that place.
I'm still driving my car downthe road and I'm still mulling
stuff over.
I know I've seen the rightperson.
(10:35):
If I walk out of the room andI'm just on to the next thing,
that means there was no hit inmy emotional soul.
Like there was nothing touched.
And so I'm probably seeing thewrong therapist.
That's how I looked at it.
So I would go see a therapistand I'd sit there and the guy is
(10:57):
just sitting across the roomfrom me and I'm talking and he's
just doing the whole, like, Idon't know, person-centered or
Freudian thing where they'rejust kind of looking at you and
going, uh-huh, okay, uh-huh.
And I'm getting no feedback.
That, to me, drives me nuts.
And I'm not going back to thatperson because they're not for
(11:17):
me.
It's not that they're notcompetent.
It's just that their style isnot what I need.
So if you are working onyourself, whether it's because
of addiction or because of someother reason, You've got to find
somebody that you connect with.
That's the really importantpart.
The work you do with a therapistis one where the minute you come
(11:39):
in to see that therapist, theyshould already be thinking about
discharging you.
In other words, they're tryingto work themselves out of a job.
And I think I've said this inpodcasts in the past.
I'm absolutely certain I have.
A good therapist is one thatthey expect the therapeutic
relationship to be very timelimited.
And they should be thinkingabout how do I get this person
(12:02):
moving towards recovery fromtheir problems that they have,
depression, anxiety, trauma,work through their addiction
issues.
And then you're finished withthat and you move on.
Now, I have people who I've beenseeing, a few people I've been
seeing for years, and thenthey're are some people that I
(12:22):
see for three to six months andwe're finished with our work.
It's whatever you need.
And so as a therapist, I look atit like, what does this client
need?
Some need support in a way thatthey do not have in their
everyday life.
Maybe they, they have a limitedamount of relationships.
(12:43):
They didn't get married.
They don't have a significantother.
They really struggle and theydon't have that emotional
connection and they need to talkthrough their, their week,
their, their existence thatweek, the tough decisions
they've had to make.
Um, I've had clients who I'vebeen with them through a
(13:04):
divorce, a remarriage, a child,a child growing up.
I mean, their struggles are notsignificant, but they have
nobody that they really can workthrough their issues.
Those are the exceptions to thetime-limited thing, and I don't
have very many of those.
(13:25):
And we do talk aboutoccasionally, you know, do you
think it's time for you to Tostart doing stuff on your own.
But you can always come back.
But you know.
We have those conversations.
And so I look at those very fewpeople.
That I have.
One or two.
That are like that.
And I'm okay with that.
(13:46):
It's like every other week.
Tune up if you will.
But a majority of the clientsthat I have.
I know are very very timelimited.
They're in recovery.
And they're working throughtheir.
post rehab, one and a half totwo years of, of work on
recovery.
And it's really interesting whenI, when they, when they go
(14:06):
through that process, they startfeeling better.
Um, and I, I have the luxury ofbeing able to see it.
And that's, that's a greatreward for me is when I see them
getting to a better place.
And that's awesome when I seethat.
Um, the other Another factor toconsider when you're trying to
find a therapist that works foryou is one of, are they
(14:31):
structured enough?
with their time.
In other words, do they scheduleyou for the same time, same day
each week, or are you scatteringyourself all over the place?
One of the real warning signs Isee with people that I'm working
with, I know that it's probablynot going to be effective for
them is that they never seem to,um, want to adhere to a Tuesday
(14:53):
at two o'clock.
That's your therapy time.
They're all over the place.
Um, They're changing days.
They're changing times.
They miss two or three weeks ina row.
That person is not in a serioustherapeutic process.
They're probably doing itbecause somebody is watching or
demanding that they get intotherapy.
(15:15):
And I don't have a lot ofsuccess with people like that
because they're not committed tothe therapeutic process, if you
will.
And for me as a therapist, whenI say that, I mean...
encountering self embracing selfchanging self they're not
they're not there so they'rejust doing it because somebody
wants them to do it and that'snot a good one the other one is
(15:37):
the person who and this is justa this is a really new thing for
me um since the coronavirusbecause i just i never closed my
office i didn't stop seeingpeople in person i refused to do
that nonsense And I did not wantto do remote sessions.
I have since learned how to doit out of necessity, not because
of the coronavirus, but becausepeople it's easier sometimes for
(16:03):
people to find the therapistthey connect with and geography.
is a challenge.
So I'm licensed in four statesand I have clients in four
states.
And now we have a interstatecompact that is available to us.
So we can actually seetherapists in a lot of different
states, not all the states, buta lot of different states.
(16:24):
I've also had clients that wereout of the country that I've
worked with.
And so the online thing is agreat tool.
I encourage my clients ifthey're ever in my area, They
come and see me in person.
Conversely, when I go to thelocations where I have clients
and I try to do this a coupletimes a year, I will see my
(16:48):
clients in person because Ithink that human connection is
important.
Not absolutely necessary, butit's important.
But the ability to connectperson to person is really
important.
So if you can do that.
But my point being that thegeographic limitation that we
(17:09):
had, especially if you're in asmall town with no therapists or
very limited therapistopportunities or options, is to
get online and find therapistswho will see you.
If you're in Florida, I can seeyou.
If you're in North Carolina, Ican see you.
If you're in If you're in Texas,I can see you.
If you're in Virginia, I can seeyou.
(17:31):
And then the other states thatare in the compact, and I think
there are 30 states right now inthe interstate compact, I can
see you.
And I do see people in otherstates remotely, some of whom I
have never actually met inperson.
And so you have to be able to becomfortable with that, but you
have to engage in that.
(17:54):
During the coronavirus, a lot ofpeople were forced into working
remotely.
I found that working with kidsremotely, kids being teenagers,
the youngest I ever had was 13,impossible to do.
They did not want to be oncamera.
(18:14):
They didn't want to show theirface.
And I can't, I can't work withsomebody who's not going to be
willing to turn their camera on.
So just be there.
But the other side of that isyou have to take it seriously.
I have clients who I will seeremotely and they will be
driving their car.
While I'm trying to do a sessionand it drives me insane.
(18:37):
I cannot see a client who isdriving their car.
They put their camera on, theyput their phone down and I'm
staring up at the headliner intheir car while I'm talking to
them and they're talking to me.
I can't do that.
I will stop them and say,listen, you need to either park
(18:58):
your car so we can have a propersession or we're going to have
to reschedule this.
But I cannot do this with youdriving your car.
Being in your car is finebecause sometimes that's where
people can have privacy.
So it's like the old Get Smartshow with the dome of silence
coming down over Maxwell Smartand the chief.
(19:20):
So you're in your car and it'sprivate and it's quiet and
you're there and you can dothat.
Awesome.
That's good.
But doing remote sessions is abit of a challenge about
privacy.
So that's a consideration.
But if you're in an area whereyou have limited resources, you
have limited availability oftherapists, it doesn't mean you
(19:41):
can't find somebody.
So if you look in another area,you might be able to, you know,
if you go on Psychology Today,for example, and you do a search
in your area and you come upwith nothing, look in major
cities.
Look in L.A.
Look in Miami.
Look in Washington, D.C.
Look in Northern Virginia.
Look in Atlanta.
You'll find therapists whospecialize in addiction.
(20:04):
and, uh, trauma work and you'llfind them and they do online
sessions, you know, ring themup, uh, see if you can do a
session.
If you connect, um, it's a greatway to, to, to get a resource
that, you know, 15 years ago,basically didn't exist.
Um, just, you gotta make surethat you get a therapist who's
skilled and skilled at, at thetwo-dimensional flat screen
(20:28):
connectivity which is always achallenge but the importance of
the therapist is one is they area guide to help you to help you
through your uh your yourprocess of change and
identification of problems andthat's the purpose of therapy so
when you're doing uh when you'remeeting with your therapist
(20:50):
tendency to soften the blowminimize the problems not talk
about the issues not getinvolved in in the things that
are really troubling you lookthat's not going to do you any
good it's not helping you andit's certainly not helping the
therapist do their job so youhave to be you have to be
(21:11):
fearless in how you areapproaching what's going on and
I'm going to say this, and Iwant you to take this for what
it's worth.
If you have things that you feelembarrassed about or upset
about, and you don't normallytalk about it to anyone, or
(21:34):
maybe you've never talked aboutit to anyone, your therapist is
the person that you should betalking to about those things.
So summoning up the courage tosay what you need to say to a
therapist is very very importantthat you that you do that that
you are able to say the thingsout loud that have become very
(21:59):
problematic for you in your lifeso if you were molested as a
child if you I've had people saythat they were on the verge of
killing somebody and theystopped because they were so
enraged because that person wasabusive to them and Or you were
(22:20):
humiliated by your parents at apoint in your life, and you keep
wanting to not think about it orrecall it, but you're having
this residual emotional effectof it.
That is what the point oftherapy is, to be able to do
that.
I believe that when you talkabout those things...
They become way less powerful inyour life.
(22:42):
They're not a driving force.
Someone else knows.
And it's interesting whensomebody says something, and if
you have a good therapist,you'll have this.
I've had occasion where I'veheard about questionable therapy
practices that engage insomething different.
But when you say something tosomebody and they're exercising
very positive personal regardtowards you, about whatever it
(23:04):
is that you feel anger or shameor horrible about and you say it
and they're accepting of youanyway.
Think about how powerful thatis.
In a therapeutic process, that'swhat happens.
That you can say things and youcan gauge the reaction to it
that may be different than youhave received in the past.
(23:25):
So if, for example, I've hadclients who were molested as
children and it's very shamefulto them.
They've never said anything toanybody.
Or if they've said something, itwas...
They were blamed for it or theywere attacked because they said
it.
There was some consequence thatwas negative for saying it.
So then they never said itagain.
And it held a power positionover their lives.
(23:50):
It was powerful over their life.
And when they said it out loudto somebody who sat there and
just...
accepted them anyway and didn'tblame them and didn't attack
them and didn't tell them thatthey should do this or that to
get over it but just acceptedthem for what they just
explained to and they said outloud to them that is a very
powerful moment and can be acathartic moment and a healing
(24:15):
moment it allows the untold tobe surfaced and to not be so
devastating to that individualso The process of therapy is one
that takes time and revealing ofstuff and depending on how bad
your stuff is, how serious itwas, how difficult it is for
(24:37):
you, the longer it can take.
And that's okay.
There's no time limit.
I'm always cautious abouttherapists who overstay their
welcome, so to speak, in thatperson's life.
And that's just a very bad signwhen somebody does that.
But on the other hand, I'm veryencouraged when I have clients
who say, look, I was in therapylike five years ago and it just
(25:00):
didn't seem like I got much outof it.
And I'm like, oh, how long wereyou in therapy?
And I was like, oh, you know,three months, six months, a
year.
I said, well, you didn't getanything out of it and you were
there for a year?
And they look at me and they go,yeah.
And I'm like, why was yourtherapist continuing to see you
then?
It's like they should havereferred you out to somebody,
(25:21):
you know, or...
Hey, this is the time for you tomaybe do that.
Is that why you're coming?
That's why you're here now?
Because you really want to dothe work?
And it's like, yeah, well, maybeyou weren't ready to do it then.
You thought about it, but maybeyou just weren't ready.
And so you just were kind ofturtling, so to speak, and
hiding in your shell because theoutside world was too...
(25:45):
I don't know, too dangerous, ifyou will, to do that work.
You weren't prepared.
Whatever the case may be, itdoesn't matter.
But keep working on that.
Keep working on yourself.
Find a good therapist.
And if you can't find one inyour area, please get online and
find one.
and see if you can get the help.
(26:06):
I see people all the time that Ihave never met.
They heard a podcast, they sawme on YouTube or something.
They read something I put outthere and they're like, hey man,
I like what you said about blah,blah, blah.
And so I thought I'd call youand see if you could help me.
I hear that occasionally from myclients and I have clients every
(26:26):
month that I see that are inthat situation.
So I would encourage you to tryto do that.
and see if you can find a goodtherapist.
And if you can't, call me.
I can be your therapist.
But go to those directoryresources and find help.
Don't suffer in silence or inlong term.
(26:51):
There's no need to suffer.
Get the help.
That's another episode of DocShock, your addiction lifeguard.
Hey, if you are looking forhelp, you can reach out to me
through my website,bullspringmindbody.com, and I
will try to help you.
If you like this podcast, pleasesuggest it to somebody else.
Like it, subscribe, comment, andkeep listening.
(27:14):
And if you have suggestions forthings that you'd like to hear,
please keep the emails comingand let me know.
And if you're looking for atherapist, like I said, find
one.
Because it's not really worthending your life because you're
trying to save your addiction.
Is it?
That makes no sense.
That's crazy.
So get the help and go to arehab.
(27:36):
Go see a counselor.
Just do something.
Well, this is Doc Jacques, youraddiction lifeguard, saying
until next time, see ya.
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