December 6, 2024 • 25 mins
Is it really important to get clean and sober for someone else or because of someone else? I think it is better to do it because of someone. Find out why in this podcast episode.
Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!Start for FREE
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I'm here to help.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here atDocShock, your addiction
(00:21):
lifeguard, the addictionrecovery podcast.
to be real clear about what thispodcast is intended for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes, but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast it's forentertainment and information
only so let's keep it in thatlight all right have a good time
learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional Getting clean andsober is something that occurs
(01:34):
when the time is right.
So the time could be rightbecause the judge is looking at
you saying, you need to go torehab or you're going to go to
jail.
The time could be right becauseyour boss says you're fired.
Or the time could be rightbecause you find yourself in the
hospital.
Or it could be because yourfamily has finally had enough
and they're asking you to go orget out.
(01:56):
And so you either need to go torehab or you've got to do
something, but you can't do thisanymore.
So the usual place that peoplefind themselves in a position
where they have to get clean andsober, not because they want to,
and I've said that a milliontimes in these podcasts, and I
still hold that as an absolutetruth, that people generally,
they get in a position wherethey have to get there, not
(02:18):
because they want to.
Because who wants to give uptheir coping mechanism?
I certainly didn't and nobodyelse does either.
So they have to.
They got to find a new one.
But the idea of getting cleanand sober is one where you are
doing it.
And in the process, a lot oftimes people get to the point
where they're doing it andthey're doing it for somebody
(02:42):
else.
That's what they keep thinkingin their head.
They're doing it because theirhusband, their wife, their
boyfriend, their girlfriend,their mother, their father,
their kids, somebody, you know,they're doing it for somebody
else.
And so I'll hear sometimes frompeople, you know, you shouldn't
do it for somebody else.
You should do it for yourself.
(03:02):
You know, I got to take issuewith that.
If you're doing it for yourself,to me, it seems kind of like
that becomes a self-servingthing.
And then if you fail, you failedyourself.
What I like to tell people to dois they need to do it because of
somebody else, which is acompletely different concept.
(03:24):
If you're doing it for somebodyelse, that means that when you
get there, you're not in it.
You did it for somebody else.
And then when you fail, if youfail and you go back out, you
did it because you didn't do itfor yourself.
So what I like to emphasize withpeople is the concept of you're
doing it because of somebodyelse.
(03:46):
Now, if you have children, andthis one comes up quite
frequently, frankly, in myoffice, if you have children and
they're under the age of 18, andyou see and you realize the kind
of damage you're doing to thosekids, maybe if it's alcohol,
you've seen it over the longterm, maybe it's drugs, and so
you're seeing the effect ofthat.
And so the problem of, like, I'mgoing to do these things to get
(04:11):
into recovery.
I'm doing it for my kids, right?
So that means you don't reallyhave anything in it.
There's no skin in the game foryou as far as you getting it or
losing it because you did it forsomebody else.
And if you did it for your wifeor your husband, your boyfriend,
girlfriend, everything rests onthem.
(04:31):
So, for example, if you're doingit for somebody else and they
just reject you, you're goingthrough that process.
part where you're trying to youknow make amends and you're
trying to make peace with peopleand they just won't have it and
and then you're left with likewell i did it for you and now
you're not accepting me and thatcan feel really empty to people
and i can understand why becauseyou did something for somebody
(04:53):
and they completely rejected itand now you're left with what
nothing because you didn't do itfor you you know really now if
you do it for you and the personis accepting of you and your
recovery okay but if you'redoing it for you and people
reject you and you did it foryou and then they reject you
(05:16):
after you've done it now you'rekind of left empty too right
because like i did all thesechanges and i'm this great
person now because i've gottenmy life together and i'm a good
healthy person and nobody caresWell, that kind of stinks.
So, I'm doing it because ofsomebody else.
So, like for example, let's saythat you had children that are
(05:38):
under the age of 12.
And you're a drug addict or analcoholic and you're just a big
hot mess.
And you look at your childrenand you realize that you're
carrying on the traditionperhaps of your own family and
your parents and kind of whathappened with your family.
So...
then what you're doing is you'remaking a change.
(06:00):
Maybe your parents were addicts,right?
And so then you decided you werenot going to do that to your
children.
So you look at your children andthere you are repeating what you
grew up with.
And now you're thinking, I'mmaking a mess of this.
Right.
And I hear that in my office alot.
You know, people come in andthey have kids and they know
they're causing damage to them.
(06:21):
They get very upset about it.
They're crying.
They're upset.
And they and many times it'slike, hey, man, this is what my
dad was or this is what my momwas.
And I'm just carrying on thistradition.
This this is terrible.
So they think I want to get Iwant to get.
clean or sober for my kids and ihear that and it always kind of
(06:42):
bothers me because it's not anequality it's not an equal thing
you don't both have a piece ofit so i like to interject the
idea in that moment of the ideaof how about if you do it
because of your children right?
You have a responsibility as aparent to parent your children.
(07:05):
And so when you're parentingyour children, what you're doing
is you're causing your childrento grow up in a life that you're
modeling and creating for them.
So you do it because of yourchildren.
So when I get older and they getolder, I can say, well, I'm I'm
here now, right?
(07:26):
Because ultimately what's goingto happen is those kids are
going to come back to you andsay, hey, man, you were a
terrible father.
You were a terrible mother.
You were never there.
So now they're coming at youwith your stuff.
You have to be able to receivethat, and you have to be able to
then give some answers to it.
And the answer is, well, I gotclean and sober because of you.
(07:50):
I did it because of you.
I love you.
I care about you.
I wanted to be with you.
And yeah, I was a hot mess whenyou were younger and I can't
change that.
And I'm hoping that maybesomeday you'll understand that I
did this and I was trying to bethere because of you.
I did it because of you.
I value you that much.
(08:12):
And that is a different messagethan I'm doing it for me because
I want to get my life togetherbecause it just...
It seems to me that in theprocess of that, that when
you're getting there because ofsomebody, you're showing your
love for that person, that youcare about that person.
(08:32):
What you're doing is you'retelling them, I'm not doing this
for me.
I'm doing it because of you andwhat our relationship means to
me.
And I hope that that will thentranslate into what our
relationship hopefully is.
means to you as well.
So when we have theseconversations about getting
clean and sober, and I hearsomebody say, I'm doing it, they
(08:56):
say you need to do it for me.
You know what?
Listen, as an addict, peoplegenerally don't have a lot of
self-esteem.
And so I'm not really worthdoing this.
I'm doing it for me.
I don't value myself.
That's how I got in this mess inthe first place.
I was taught to not valuemyself.
I mean, that was certainly mycase.
(09:17):
I was not taught by my family tocare about myself.
I was like many kids, I guess,of my generation, that seen and
not heard, that was still beingcarried over into the 60s when I
was born and the 50s when mysister was born.
So we were just kind ofancillary things.
(09:38):
Now, we weren't the center ofthe universe, and I'm not
expecting that my parents wouldhave treated me like I was the
center of their universe.
But hey, come on.
Don't be checked out becauseyou're an alcoholic, dad.
Show up at some events.
Mom, don't act so crazy.
Actually provide something forme besides just an occasional
(09:59):
hello or how you doing and thenconcern when I'm going sideways.
That's not okay.
That's not enough.
So the idea of like...
I'm doing something and I'mgoing to check back in and I'm
going to get myself togetherbecause of you.
You were the thing in my lifethat changed me, right?
(10:20):
That's what you're saying to theperson when you say, I'm doing
this because of you.
You were pivotal to me and Imade that change because of it.
When I'm making amends, when I'mtrying to right the wrongs, I'm
trying to lift the anger and thefrustration and the resentment
that I handed to somebody in myaddict behavior and I go to them
(10:43):
and I say hey man I want you toknow I now know how wrong that
was there's a gifting of that inthe process of recovery to both
the addict and the person whowas wronged and being able to
right the ship so to speak thatyou can't take back the events
but you know you certainly canaccept responsibility for it and
(11:05):
hope that the person will letthat anger go.
But if, for example, you have aproblem of there's a lot of
damage and everybody has theirown version of addiction, right?
(11:26):
I mean, some of it's reallycatastrophic and some of it's
not, but if you were just like ahuge hot mess, you know, you're
like way into addiction, you'reway into the destruction, maybe
you've overdosed multiple times,you've just acted violently or
chaotically, or you just, youknow, you got to the point where
(11:46):
your drug usage got you to alevel of psychosis, for example,
you're going to have someserious problems with trying to
make amends.
And so I got clean and sober andAnd I'm left with a lot of
damage.
And I have some people that I'veworked with over the years that
they're literally picking up afew pieces they've got left.
(12:09):
They burned a bridge, then theyblew up the ashes, and then they
scattered those ashes all overthe place.
And there's very littleremaining.
And so when you're approachingsomebody like that, and you're
trying to make amends, andyou've blown up your world that
badly, there may be somequestion as to, well, why now,
(12:31):
right?
You got to the point where youwere so destructive that you
blew up the family.
You destroyed the friendship.
You blew up your business.
You ended up going to prison forhowever many years.
You're left with very little,right?
And so when you go to somebodyand you're trying to say to
(12:53):
them, hey, man, I've changed,and you really want to convey
that message to them because,again, you're approaching them
trying to relieve them of theanger they might feel or
resentment or whatever that yougave them.
So when they ask you, well, whynow?
Like, why would you do this now?
Why didn't you do it 10 yearsago?
when things were really bad or15 years ago, in some cases 20
(13:14):
years ago.
Like why did you do it now?
And it's because I didn't knowany better and I was a mess, but
I want you to know that I didthis because of you.
I see the suffering that youhave and the amount of chaos
that I've created And sometimesthese people end up getting
jettisoned from their families,right?
(13:34):
So maybe they've been gone for10 years.
They just disappeared andthey're living this horrible
life.
So when you go back and youapproach that person and you're
seeing them maybe for the firsttime in years, you can say, I
did it because of you.
Why didn't I do it before?
Because I was insane.
And this is the part, you know,the people that are addicts, I
(13:58):
refer to them as addicts.
The people who are not addicts,the people who are the loved
ones of addicts or people whoare just friends, people that
never had addiction in theirlife, they're not an addict.
I call them civilians.
So when you're talking to acivilian and you're trying to
explain insanity at a level thatthey have no comprehension of,
(14:19):
they're not going to comprehendit.
So explaining it in a way thatmakes sense to them perhaps
won't happen.
It's just a fact and it'sunfortunate.
I mean, I spend, I don't know,Probably of the 25 to 35 hours a
week I see clients, I might bespending three or four or five
of them every week trying tocreate an image and demonstrate
(14:46):
for them verbally and explain tothe civilians what insanity is.
And it's a challenge, frankly,because they cannot understand.
It's like, well, why would theydo that?
Why would they say that?
Why did they go?
I don't understand.
You know, it's okay that youdon't understand.
You're never going tounderstand.
(15:07):
But addicts, they, you know,they think differently.
Okay, you know that.
Because if you're one, you knowthat.
And you can't explain it.
So I did it for you.
I can't explain why I didn't doit before.
It's because I was crazy.
But I'm now sane, right?
It's the one time when somebodywho's crazy can actually come
(15:30):
back to sanity.
It's like the flowers ofAlgernon.
They get enough dopamine intheir system and they can come
back to reality.
But for a short time, once theyget off the drug that's making
them clear and focused and notcrazy...
go back to crazy uh it's notlike that um but it is right
because they have the capabilityof you know by not taking your
(15:52):
drug of choice you can becomesane so the idea of i'm doing it
for you is not i don't like thatone let me just say that i just
don't like that idea yes you'recertainly going to benefit from
it and so is everybody aroundyou however The idea of I'm
doing it because of you means Ifeel an incredible sense of
(16:17):
responsibility for you, andthat's why I'm doing this.
It's because of you.
Now, if you reject me in theprocess and you tell me you
can't have me in your life and Ican't be part of your life, so
be it.
Listen, we're adults, and that'sa consequence, right?
(16:38):
Actions have outcomes.
And so maybe that's the outcome.
It's not the outcome I wanted,but you know, in, in addiction,
when you're, when you're workingon recovery and you get there,
the person may say, I can't bearound you, but that doesn't
mean that you can't receive themlater on.
So the idea that this is aproblem and I'm, I, as a
(17:01):
recovered addict, I'm going tospend my time continuing to work
on that recovery and be a betterperson.
And I'm here, I'm always here.
So this is one of the things Ido like is I like the idea of
I'm doing it because of somebodyand I'm doing it probably
because of people I haven't metyet.
And these are the healthy peoplebecause we have a lot of crazy
(17:26):
people in our lives when we areaddicts.
Civilians do too, but weprobably have more of them and
the level of dysfunction is moreextreme.
So I'm doing it because of you.
And even if you say you don'twant to see me anymore, I'm
still here.
I'm still going to be here.
I will accept you coming back tome.
(17:48):
And when and if you do, I'mhere.
That's what you can keep in yourhead.
Or maybe you can say that to theperson that you're saying it to.
You're trying to make amends toas an addict.
But there are also people thataddicts have been involved with
who are problematic.
And I'm not going to pretendlike that doesn't exist.
Of course it exists.
(18:09):
So you've got an uncle, an aunt,a cousin, a sibling, a neighbor,
somebody who's molested you orbeaten you or terrorized you as
a kid.
Yeah, you're probably not goingto want that person in your life
again, even if you're bloodrelated and there's nothing that
says you have to.
You can exclude them from yourlife.
(18:33):
And I would assume that you'renot getting sober for them.
or clean for them.
It's not because of them in apositive way.
Perhaps, I guess, you could putit into the category of because
of you, you created this in me,you abused me, and so because of
(18:54):
you I'm getting clean and soberbecause I was trying to kill
myself because of you.
Now I'm not going to do that,but I'm not sure that's kind of
what I'm implying here.
So the idea of Why are yougetting clean and sober?
I'm getting clean and soberbecause of my children, because
of my wife, because of myhusband, because I am my
(19:20):
siblings, right?
So getting there is part of thejourney, but the reasons why and
the reasons contributing to it,and hopefully...
The longer you're in yourrecovery, you get past that
first two years, your long-term,right?
Long-term recovery is five yearsor longer.
(19:41):
You get to the point whereyou're in long-term recovery,
you want to be able to hang onto that recovery.
And there are times when thingsare going to happen.
Somebody's going to die, andyou're going to go to a funeral,
and there they are.
So the people you don't want tosee.
Or the people that don't want tosee you.
(20:04):
Because they're the ones thatsaid, I can't have you in my
life.
There's the funeral or there'sthe wedding.
Those are the two that are theones that usually bring people
back together that have beenseparated for some reason.
And so there they are.
And you have to face them.
So I...
(20:26):
I'm a big advocate of healing,but also of absolute boundaries.
And so I'm doing this because ofyou and I will continue to do
this because of you.
I have had several clients overthe years who have really
strained relationships withloved ones, whether they were
(20:49):
parents or siblings.
And there's 10, 15, 20 years,maybe longer, between times when
they are encountering eachother.
A lot can change in that time.
And a lot can change that'spositive.
A lot can change that's negativeas well.
But I did this because of you,and now I haven't seen you for a
(21:13):
long, long time.
But it's because of you.
And, you know, if you thinkabout it, As a person who has
caused a tremendous amount ofdestruction in your life as an
addict and in the lives of otherpeople, think about the gift
that you're giving somebody whenyou approach your recovery with,
(21:35):
I'm doing this because of you.
Think about that gift.
I thought enough of you, my son,my child, my husband, my wife, I
thought enough of you that I waswilling to to do the hardest
thing you could possibly do,which is to not just get into
recovery, but all that recoveryentails, meaning I am going to
(21:58):
the point of acceptingresponsibility for the damage
that I've done.
I'm accepting responsibility forthe things that I've destroyed.
Think about the gift that you'regiving that person when you do
that.
It is just amazing how strongand powerful that is.
One of my favorite things to dois to listen to people who have
(22:19):
long-term recovery, who havethese stories of horrific
destruction.
They went to prison.
They were in and out ofinstitutions, whether it was
psych units, psychiatrichospitals, rehabs.
They were homeless.
They just lived these horriblelives.
(22:43):
And they have shifted from beingthe addict to being the person
in recovery.
They have these amazing storiesthat if you go, you know, go
onto YouTube and type in thesearch, TED Talks addiction or
TED Talks drug addiction oralcoholism or alcohol recovery,
(23:04):
substance use disorder,whatever.
You're going to see, you know, ahundred videos pop up and people
that are talking about not allof them, some of them are people
who are not addicts in recovery,but a lot of them are people in
recovery and the stories theytell of their lives and what
they lost and then what they'veregained or what they have
(23:26):
gained since they got intorecovery.
And it is just so inspiring.
And wouldn't it be wonderful ifyou were one of those stories?
If you could be able, if youwould have the ability to talk
to a neighbor or for example,who has a child that is going
sideways and became addicted toa drug or alcohol or whatever,
(23:50):
and they don't know what to do.
And you talk to them and youcommunicate the message of hope.
Or if your kids or your spousemaybe suddenly becomes addicted
after you've gotten intorecovery.
You can change other people'slives in a tremendous way.
So what a gift that is to beable to live that way.
(24:12):
So I'm not going to get cleanand sober for you.
I'm doing it because of you.
I want to give you that giftbecause I took a lot of stuff
away with my addiction and thattime is over.
Well, you know what?
It's been a few weeks since Idid a podcast, so I want to
(24:33):
thank you for being patientwhile I got some thoughts
together.
But listen, if you need help,whether it's an intervention,
you want some direction, somecounseling, reach out to me.
You can reach me through mywebsite, wellspringmindbody.com,
and I'd be happy to talk to youand see if I can get you some
(24:54):
help.
But if you are not able to dothat, reach out locally to
whoever can help you.
and help you, whether it's ahospital, a doctor, a counselor,
a specialist in addictionrecovery is what you want to
look for.
But please get the help.
It's not worth all thedestruction that you can engage
in just because you have anaddiction.
Get help.
(25:14):
It's out there.
And so until the next time wetalk, this is Doc Jacques, your
addiction lifeguard, saying seeya.
I'm here to help.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here atDocShock, your addiction
(00:21):
lifeguard, the addictionrecovery podcast.
to be real clear about what thispodcast is intended for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes, but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast it's forentertainment and information
only so let's keep it in thatlight all right have a good time
learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional Getting clean andsober is something that occurs
(01:34):
when the time is right.
So the time could be rightbecause the judge is looking at
you saying, you need to go torehab or you're going to go to
jail.
The time could be right becauseyour boss says you're fired.
Or the time could be rightbecause you find yourself in the
hospital.
Or it could be because yourfamily has finally had enough
and they're asking you to go orget out.
(01:56):
And so you either need to go torehab or you've got to do
something, but you can't do thisanymore.
So the usual place that peoplefind themselves in a position
where they have to get clean andsober, not because they want to,
and I've said that a milliontimes in these podcasts, and I
still hold that as an absolutetruth, that people generally,
they get in a position wherethey have to get there, not
(02:18):
because they want to.
Because who wants to give uptheir coping mechanism?
I certainly didn't and nobodyelse does either.
So they have to.
They got to find a new one.
But the idea of getting cleanand sober is one where you are
doing it.
And in the process, a lot oftimes people get to the point
where they're doing it andthey're doing it for somebody
(02:42):
else.
That's what they keep thinkingin their head.
They're doing it because theirhusband, their wife, their
boyfriend, their girlfriend,their mother, their father,
their kids, somebody, you know,they're doing it for somebody
else.
And so I'll hear sometimes frompeople, you know, you shouldn't
do it for somebody else.
You should do it for yourself.
(03:02):
You know, I got to take issuewith that.
If you're doing it for yourself,to me, it seems kind of like
that becomes a self-servingthing.
And then if you fail, you failedyourself.
What I like to tell people to dois they need to do it because of
somebody else, which is acompletely different concept.
(03:24):
If you're doing it for somebodyelse, that means that when you
get there, you're not in it.
You did it for somebody else.
And then when you fail, if youfail and you go back out, you
did it because you didn't do itfor yourself.
So what I like to emphasize withpeople is the concept of you're
doing it because of somebodyelse.
(03:46):
Now, if you have children, andthis one comes up quite
frequently, frankly, in myoffice, if you have children and
they're under the age of 18, andyou see and you realize the kind
of damage you're doing to thosekids, maybe if it's alcohol,
you've seen it over the longterm, maybe it's drugs, and so
you're seeing the effect ofthat.
And so the problem of, like, I'mgoing to do these things to get
(04:11):
into recovery.
I'm doing it for my kids, right?
So that means you don't reallyhave anything in it.
There's no skin in the game foryou as far as you getting it or
losing it because you did it forsomebody else.
And if you did it for your wifeor your husband, your boyfriend,
girlfriend, everything rests onthem.
(04:31):
So, for example, if you're doingit for somebody else and they
just reject you, you're goingthrough that process.
part where you're trying to youknow make amends and you're
trying to make peace with peopleand they just won't have it and
and then you're left with likewell i did it for you and now
you're not accepting me and thatcan feel really empty to people
and i can understand why becauseyou did something for somebody
(04:53):
and they completely rejected itand now you're left with what
nothing because you didn't do itfor you you know really now if
you do it for you and the personis accepting of you and your
recovery okay but if you'redoing it for you and people
reject you and you did it foryou and then they reject you
(05:16):
after you've done it now you'rekind of left empty too right
because like i did all thesechanges and i'm this great
person now because i've gottenmy life together and i'm a good
healthy person and nobody caresWell, that kind of stinks.
So, I'm doing it because ofsomebody else.
So, like for example, let's saythat you had children that are
(05:38):
under the age of 12.
And you're a drug addict or analcoholic and you're just a big
hot mess.
And you look at your childrenand you realize that you're
carrying on the traditionperhaps of your own family and
your parents and kind of whathappened with your family.
So...
then what you're doing is you'remaking a change.
(06:00):
Maybe your parents were addicts,right?
And so then you decided you werenot going to do that to your
children.
So you look at your children andthere you are repeating what you
grew up with.
And now you're thinking, I'mmaking a mess of this.
Right.
And I hear that in my office alot.
You know, people come in andthey have kids and they know
they're causing damage to them.
(06:21):
They get very upset about it.
They're crying.
They're upset.
And they and many times it'slike, hey, man, this is what my
dad was or this is what my momwas.
And I'm just carrying on thistradition.
This this is terrible.
So they think I want to get Iwant to get.
clean or sober for my kids and ihear that and it always kind of
(06:42):
bothers me because it's not anequality it's not an equal thing
you don't both have a piece ofit so i like to interject the
idea in that moment of the ideaof how about if you do it
because of your children right?
You have a responsibility as aparent to parent your children.
(07:05):
And so when you're parentingyour children, what you're doing
is you're causing your childrento grow up in a life that you're
modeling and creating for them.
So you do it because of yourchildren.
So when I get older and they getolder, I can say, well, I'm I'm
here now, right?
(07:26):
Because ultimately what's goingto happen is those kids are
going to come back to you andsay, hey, man, you were a
terrible father.
You were a terrible mother.
You were never there.
So now they're coming at youwith your stuff.
You have to be able to receivethat, and you have to be able to
then give some answers to it.
And the answer is, well, I gotclean and sober because of you.
(07:50):
I did it because of you.
I love you.
I care about you.
I wanted to be with you.
And yeah, I was a hot mess whenyou were younger and I can't
change that.
And I'm hoping that maybesomeday you'll understand that I
did this and I was trying to bethere because of you.
I did it because of you.
I value you that much.
(08:12):
And that is a different messagethan I'm doing it for me because
I want to get my life togetherbecause it just...
It seems to me that in theprocess of that, that when
you're getting there because ofsomebody, you're showing your
love for that person, that youcare about that person.
(08:32):
What you're doing is you'retelling them, I'm not doing this
for me.
I'm doing it because of you andwhat our relationship means to
me.
And I hope that that will thentranslate into what our
relationship hopefully is.
means to you as well.
So when we have theseconversations about getting
clean and sober, and I hearsomebody say, I'm doing it, they
(08:56):
say you need to do it for me.
You know what?
Listen, as an addict, peoplegenerally don't have a lot of
self-esteem.
And so I'm not really worthdoing this.
I'm doing it for me.
I don't value myself.
That's how I got in this mess inthe first place.
I was taught to not valuemyself.
I mean, that was certainly mycase.
(09:17):
I was not taught by my family tocare about myself.
I was like many kids, I guess,of my generation, that seen and
not heard, that was still beingcarried over into the 60s when I
was born and the 50s when mysister was born.
So we were just kind ofancillary things.
(09:38):
Now, we weren't the center ofthe universe, and I'm not
expecting that my parents wouldhave treated me like I was the
center of their universe.
But hey, come on.
Don't be checked out becauseyou're an alcoholic, dad.
Show up at some events.
Mom, don't act so crazy.
Actually provide something forme besides just an occasional
(09:59):
hello or how you doing and thenconcern when I'm going sideways.
That's not okay.
That's not enough.
So the idea of like...
I'm doing something and I'mgoing to check back in and I'm
going to get myself togetherbecause of you.
You were the thing in my lifethat changed me, right?
(10:20):
That's what you're saying to theperson when you say, I'm doing
this because of you.
You were pivotal to me and Imade that change because of it.
When I'm making amends, when I'mtrying to right the wrongs, I'm
trying to lift the anger and thefrustration and the resentment
that I handed to somebody in myaddict behavior and I go to them
(10:43):
and I say hey man I want you toknow I now know how wrong that
was there's a gifting of that inthe process of recovery to both
the addict and the person whowas wronged and being able to
right the ship so to speak thatyou can't take back the events
but you know you certainly canaccept responsibility for it and
(11:05):
hope that the person will letthat anger go.
But if, for example, you have aproblem of there's a lot of
damage and everybody has theirown version of addiction, right?
(11:26):
I mean, some of it's reallycatastrophic and some of it's
not, but if you were just like ahuge hot mess, you know, you're
like way into addiction, you'reway into the destruction, maybe
you've overdosed multiple times,you've just acted violently or
chaotically, or you just, youknow, you got to the point where
(11:46):
your drug usage got you to alevel of psychosis, for example,
you're going to have someserious problems with trying to
make amends.
And so I got clean and sober andAnd I'm left with a lot of
damage.
And I have some people that I'veworked with over the years that
they're literally picking up afew pieces they've got left.
(12:09):
They burned a bridge, then theyblew up the ashes, and then they
scattered those ashes all overthe place.
And there's very littleremaining.
And so when you're approachingsomebody like that, and you're
trying to make amends, andyou've blown up your world that
badly, there may be somequestion as to, well, why now,
(12:31):
right?
You got to the point where youwere so destructive that you
blew up the family.
You destroyed the friendship.
You blew up your business.
You ended up going to prison forhowever many years.
You're left with very little,right?
And so when you go to somebodyand you're trying to say to
(12:53):
them, hey, man, I've changed,and you really want to convey
that message to them because,again, you're approaching them
trying to relieve them of theanger they might feel or
resentment or whatever that yougave them.
So when they ask you, well, whynow?
Like, why would you do this now?
Why didn't you do it 10 yearsago?
when things were really bad or15 years ago, in some cases 20
(13:14):
years ago.
Like why did you do it now?
And it's because I didn't knowany better and I was a mess, but
I want you to know that I didthis because of you.
I see the suffering that youhave and the amount of chaos
that I've created And sometimesthese people end up getting
jettisoned from their families,right?
(13:34):
So maybe they've been gone for10 years.
They just disappeared andthey're living this horrible
life.
So when you go back and youapproach that person and you're
seeing them maybe for the firsttime in years, you can say, I
did it because of you.
Why didn't I do it before?
Because I was insane.
And this is the part, you know,the people that are addicts, I
(13:58):
refer to them as addicts.
The people who are not addicts,the people who are the loved
ones of addicts or people whoare just friends, people that
never had addiction in theirlife, they're not an addict.
I call them civilians.
So when you're talking to acivilian and you're trying to
explain insanity at a level thatthey have no comprehension of,
(14:19):
they're not going to comprehendit.
So explaining it in a way thatmakes sense to them perhaps
won't happen.
It's just a fact and it'sunfortunate.
I mean, I spend, I don't know,Probably of the 25 to 35 hours a
week I see clients, I might bespending three or four or five
of them every week trying tocreate an image and demonstrate
(14:46):
for them verbally and explain tothe civilians what insanity is.
And it's a challenge, frankly,because they cannot understand.
It's like, well, why would theydo that?
Why would they say that?
Why did they go?
I don't understand.
You know, it's okay that youdon't understand.
You're never going tounderstand.
(15:07):
But addicts, they, you know,they think differently.
Okay, you know that.
Because if you're one, you knowthat.
And you can't explain it.
So I did it for you.
I can't explain why I didn't doit before.
It's because I was crazy.
But I'm now sane, right?
It's the one time when somebodywho's crazy can actually come
(15:30):
back to sanity.
It's like the flowers ofAlgernon.
They get enough dopamine intheir system and they can come
back to reality.
But for a short time, once theyget off the drug that's making
them clear and focused and notcrazy...
go back to crazy uh it's notlike that um but it is right
because they have the capabilityof you know by not taking your
(15:52):
drug of choice you can becomesane so the idea of i'm doing it
for you is not i don't like thatone let me just say that i just
don't like that idea yes you'recertainly going to benefit from
it and so is everybody aroundyou however The idea of I'm
doing it because of you means Ifeel an incredible sense of
(16:17):
responsibility for you, andthat's why I'm doing this.
It's because of you.
Now, if you reject me in theprocess and you tell me you
can't have me in your life and Ican't be part of your life, so
be it.
Listen, we're adults, and that'sa consequence, right?
(16:38):
Actions have outcomes.
And so maybe that's the outcome.
It's not the outcome I wanted,but you know, in, in addiction,
when you're, when you're workingon recovery and you get there,
the person may say, I can't bearound you, but that doesn't
mean that you can't receive themlater on.
So the idea that this is aproblem and I'm, I, as a
(17:01):
recovered addict, I'm going tospend my time continuing to work
on that recovery and be a betterperson.
And I'm here, I'm always here.
So this is one of the things Ido like is I like the idea of
I'm doing it because of somebodyand I'm doing it probably
because of people I haven't metyet.
And these are the healthy peoplebecause we have a lot of crazy
(17:26):
people in our lives when we areaddicts.
Civilians do too, but weprobably have more of them and
the level of dysfunction is moreextreme.
So I'm doing it because of you.
And even if you say you don'twant to see me anymore, I'm
still here.
I'm still going to be here.
I will accept you coming back tome.
(17:48):
And when and if you do, I'mhere.
That's what you can keep in yourhead.
Or maybe you can say that to theperson that you're saying it to.
You're trying to make amends toas an addict.
But there are also people thataddicts have been involved with
who are problematic.
And I'm not going to pretendlike that doesn't exist.
Of course it exists.
(18:09):
So you've got an uncle, an aunt,a cousin, a sibling, a neighbor,
somebody who's molested you orbeaten you or terrorized you as
a kid.
Yeah, you're probably not goingto want that person in your life
again, even if you're bloodrelated and there's nothing that
says you have to.
You can exclude them from yourlife.
(18:33):
And I would assume that you'renot getting sober for them.
or clean for them.
It's not because of them in apositive way.
Perhaps, I guess, you could putit into the category of because
of you, you created this in me,you abused me, and so because of
(18:54):
you I'm getting clean and soberbecause I was trying to kill
myself because of you.
Now I'm not going to do that,but I'm not sure that's kind of
what I'm implying here.
So the idea of Why are yougetting clean and sober?
I'm getting clean and soberbecause of my children, because
of my wife, because of myhusband, because I am my
(19:20):
siblings, right?
So getting there is part of thejourney, but the reasons why and
the reasons contributing to it,and hopefully...
The longer you're in yourrecovery, you get past that
first two years, your long-term,right?
Long-term recovery is five yearsor longer.
(19:41):
You get to the point whereyou're in long-term recovery,
you want to be able to hang onto that recovery.
And there are times when thingsare going to happen.
Somebody's going to die, andyou're going to go to a funeral,
and there they are.
So the people you don't want tosee.
Or the people that don't want tosee you.
(20:04):
Because they're the ones thatsaid, I can't have you in my
life.
There's the funeral or there'sthe wedding.
Those are the two that are theones that usually bring people
back together that have beenseparated for some reason.
And so there they are.
And you have to face them.
So I...
(20:26):
I'm a big advocate of healing,but also of absolute boundaries.
And so I'm doing this because ofyou and I will continue to do
this because of you.
I have had several clients overthe years who have really
strained relationships withloved ones, whether they were
(20:49):
parents or siblings.
And there's 10, 15, 20 years,maybe longer, between times when
they are encountering eachother.
A lot can change in that time.
And a lot can change that'spositive.
A lot can change that's negativeas well.
But I did this because of you,and now I haven't seen you for a
(21:13):
long, long time.
But it's because of you.
And, you know, if you thinkabout it, As a person who has
caused a tremendous amount ofdestruction in your life as an
addict and in the lives of otherpeople, think about the gift
that you're giving somebody whenyou approach your recovery with,
(21:35):
I'm doing this because of you.
Think about that gift.
I thought enough of you, my son,my child, my husband, my wife, I
thought enough of you that I waswilling to to do the hardest
thing you could possibly do,which is to not just get into
recovery, but all that recoveryentails, meaning I am going to
(21:58):
the point of acceptingresponsibility for the damage
that I've done.
I'm accepting responsibility forthe things that I've destroyed.
Think about the gift that you'regiving that person when you do
that.
It is just amazing how strongand powerful that is.
One of my favorite things to dois to listen to people who have
(22:19):
long-term recovery, who havethese stories of horrific
destruction.
They went to prison.
They were in and out ofinstitutions, whether it was
psych units, psychiatrichospitals, rehabs.
They were homeless.
They just lived these horriblelives.
(22:43):
And they have shifted from beingthe addict to being the person
in recovery.
They have these amazing storiesthat if you go, you know, go
onto YouTube and type in thesearch, TED Talks addiction or
TED Talks drug addiction oralcoholism or alcohol recovery,
(23:04):
substance use disorder,whatever.
You're going to see, you know, ahundred videos pop up and people
that are talking about not allof them, some of them are people
who are not addicts in recovery,but a lot of them are people in
recovery and the stories theytell of their lives and what
they lost and then what they'veregained or what they have
(23:26):
gained since they got intorecovery.
And it is just so inspiring.
And wouldn't it be wonderful ifyou were one of those stories?
If you could be able, if youwould have the ability to talk
to a neighbor or for example,who has a child that is going
sideways and became addicted toa drug or alcohol or whatever,
(23:50):
and they don't know what to do.
And you talk to them and youcommunicate the message of hope.
Or if your kids or your spousemaybe suddenly becomes addicted
after you've gotten intorecovery.
You can change other people'slives in a tremendous way.
So what a gift that is to beable to live that way.
(24:12):
So I'm not going to get cleanand sober for you.
I'm doing it because of you.
I want to give you that giftbecause I took a lot of stuff
away with my addiction and thattime is over.
Well, you know what?
It's been a few weeks since Idid a podcast, so I want to
(24:33):
thank you for being patientwhile I got some thoughts
together.
But listen, if you need help,whether it's an intervention,
you want some direction, somecounseling, reach out to me.
You can reach me through mywebsite, wellspringmindbody.com,
and I'd be happy to talk to youand see if I can get you some
(24:54):
help.
But if you are not able to dothat, reach out locally to
whoever can help you.
and help you, whether it's ahospital, a doctor, a counselor,
a specialist in addictionrecovery is what you want to
look for.
But please get the help.
It's not worth all thedestruction that you can engage
in just because you have anaddiction.
Get help.
(25:14):
It's out there.
And so until the next time wetalk, this is Doc Jacques, your
addiction lifeguard, saying seeya.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides.  Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer  Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.