May 9, 2025 • 26 mins
Do you know someone who is an addict and just can't seem to tolerate discomfort? Or are you that person who can't tolerate discomfort?
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
Why do addicts use?
(01:33):
Why do they have to use to...
get out of their brains.
Why is that?
I get asked that question allthe time.
I get asked that question bypeople who are in recovery when
they've gotten through the wholecycle of addiction.
I get asked that by familymembers of people who are
addicts and are confused by whatthey're seeing.
(01:53):
I get asked that by people whoare at the early stages of
recovery and they just can'tfigure out why they can't stop
and it doesn't make any sense tothem.
I get asked by people thatquestion all the time.
Literally, all the time.
It's almost a daily event.
And the answer that I give isalways the same.
(02:13):
It's because that person isuncomfortable.
And there's a series of videosthat I ask people to watch
sometimes.
It's called The Soft WhiteUnderbelly.
And it's real people beinginterviewed for 30 minutes, 40
minutes about their tragiclives.
And the videos, sometimesthey're in black and white,
(02:36):
sometimes they're in color.
And the ones that are theinterviews, and they're on
YouTube, by the way, so it'scalled the soft white
underbelly.
And they're interviews of just aperson.
They're just being interviewedabout their life.
And it could be a prostitute.
It could be a drug addict.
It could be somebody who's adrug dealer.
(02:57):
This guy will literally pullpeople off the street asked them
if they want to just come in andcan be interviewed about their
lives.
And he sits them in a chair, ina stool, in a studio, and they
just tell their lives.
And it's really interesting whenyou watch.
And they're pretty compellingstories.
I mean, it's just...
(03:20):
And a lot of times you can tellthey're just very uncomfortable.
A lot of times they just don'twant to be participating in this
interview.
They don't...
It's just feeling veryuncomfortable.
And so they're asked thesequestions about, you know, how
did you get here?
What happened to you?
How do you live now?
(03:41):
And it's really interestingbecause I can see that, you
know, when they started off, youcan tell that like there was
always this traumaticexperience.
experiences that they had use oftheir childhoods if they talk
about their childhoods they'llsay it was really bad and
they'll go into detail about itbut what's really interesting is
that the amount of trauma thatthese people have experienced in
their lives is always it's justoff the scales and so they're
(04:05):
and they got derailed right andthen one thing led to another
and it led to another tragedyupon tragedy homelessness
getting assaulted uh having toyou know you have no money so
you end up prostituting yourselfor you know seeing stealing or
whatever the case is.
But it's always just incredibleamount of discomfort and tragedy
and horror that they'redescribing.
(04:27):
And that's what comes in to mewhen I'm treating people.
The person that comes in, theyalways have these just horrific
stories of just tragedy.
And it's heartbreaking manytimes, the stories that they
tell.
And it's interesting becausethey tell them with a level of
dissociation, the disconnect, inorder to understand that what
(04:51):
they're telling is perhaps nottheir story.
They have to get into that placein their head where they're
talking about...
it's almost like they're talkingabout somebody else right i mean
there's a level of dissociationthat has to occur in order for
them to be able to survive inthat that uh that world that
(05:11):
they were in and it's like it'sturned it's like it was somebody
else and it's at first i thoughtit was kind of an apathetic
approach that they were feelingthis apathy this lack of feeling
uh about their own tragedy butthen i realized that's
purposeful right they are tryingvery hard It's hard not to feel
(05:31):
the pain that has been inflictedupon them and the only way they
can do that is to describe it asif it's somebody else.
I've heard the same thing fromwomen who have been in my office
who are They're in the pornindustry, and they talk about
the things that they're doingfor money, and they connect to
(05:56):
themselves when they're tellingthe story.
Yes, this is what happens, butthey give the person that's
doing the act as somebody else.
That's a different person.
They don't use these like astage name, right?
Well, that stage name takes on apersona, and it's not them.
That's how they approach it.
Like, it's not me.
(06:17):
It's Cherry Delight or whoever,whatever their name is they've
given themselves when they'reengaging in these acts.
And it's a way of dissociating.
It's a coping skill that welearn as children, the little
fantasy world.
Unfortunately, as adults...
It becomes problematic becauseliving in a fantasy world and
(06:40):
having a fantasy identity whenyou are a full-grown adult and
supposed to be functioning insociety is not helpful at all.
It makes you dysfunctional.
But the push and pull of thatdissociation, the push and pull
of discomfort is what people whohave addiction engage in.
(07:01):
And so if you are a loved oneand you're watching somebody
that's engaging in nonsensicaluse of drugs and alcohol and it
doesn't make any sense to you,it's like, why don't you just
stop?
Well, they can't, right?
They're trying to not feeldiscomfort.
And that's the best way they'vecome up with.
So whatever it is, huffingpaint, shooting up, drinking...
(07:24):
pornography, gambling, shopping,you know, just you go through
the whole list of addictivethings that you do.
But what you're doing is you'retrying to not feel discomfort.
So to me, what's kind of aninteresting thing is trying to
teach people how to sit withtheir discomfort.
It's very difficult for them todo that.
(07:45):
Many times the the trauma thatthey've experienced as you know,
as you as you You probably, ifyou're listening to this, you
probably have that.
It's so overwhelming, right?
It's not just a, yeah, I flunkedout of school.
You know, it's my...
nephew or or not nephew probablybut like uncle was molesting me
(08:08):
or my aunt was was beating me ormy mom put cigarettes out on my
on my arm and used to punch meand just i mean these are just
really severe things now you mayhave not suffered that level of
trauma that was severe like thatbut one person's trauma is
another person's tolerable soyou you may not have been
(08:31):
affected by a heavy amount oftrauma seemingly but it doesn't
mean it wasn't traumatic to youuh my my uh family i had trauma
going on there was a lot ofverbal and emotional abuse that
was heaped on me by my father mymother was physically beating my
(08:54):
sister and that was unknown tome i never ever saw it And my
sister could describe in graphicdetail the things of the
beatings, slapping.
She even broke my sister'scollarbone at one point when she
was three.
And so it's a terrible thingwhen you suffer in emotional
(09:19):
abuse, but it leaves no scars.
Verbal abuse, it leaves noscars.
Physical abuse sometimes canleave no scars.
Getting punched or kicked maynot leave a bruise, but it
definitely is inflicting pain.
So it doesn't have to besomething that's completely
visible.
So you feel uncomfortablebecause you were traumatized.
(09:40):
Combat vets get traumatized.
People who are first respondersget exposure trauma or direct
trauma through dealing withtrauma.
victims of car accidents andwhatever.
So it just takes all kinds ofdifferent forms.
So you feel uncomfortable, andnow you can't offload that
discomfort.
Many times people can't reallytalk about it.
(10:03):
They're not in a place wherethey can.
Police, first responders, EMSpeople, they talk to themselves.
They talk amongst themselves,but they don't talk to the
outside world.
So then you have...
The red wall or the blue wall,the wall of protection around a
police officer that makes itimpossible for him to or her to
(10:24):
talk to the general public.
And then they become the generalpublic becomes unrelatable.
And unfortunately, with policeofficers, there's also a high
degree of suspicion that peoplehave in society of them and they
treat them differently.
So it's like as soon as you puton a uniform, you get treated
differently, and that separatesyou from the regular general
population, which is unfortunatebecause police officers are
(10:46):
usually very good, kind people.
They just are separated fromsociety through their own doing
and through society's doing aswell.
So when you're feelinguncomfortable, you want to get
high, you want to get drunk, youwant to offload that feeling,
but you can't.
So what you do is you try toalter it.
So the answer of why are peopleusing it is because they're
(11:09):
uncomfortable.
Why can't they do somethingelse?
Because other things they trieddidn't work.
That's what it comes down to.
Now, if you have a situationwhere you have a drug of choice
going into it and you gettraumatized, then you're just
going to start overusing thatdrug of choice.
But many times it's the persongets exposed to the drug of
(11:31):
choice and now you've instantlygot an addict.
And off to the races you go.
But the push and pull of trauma,or discomfort rather, the push
and pull of discomfort isinteresting because there are
times when you get through yourday as an addict and you can
tolerate the discomfort.
Maybe it's because there's somuch noise going on around you.
(11:53):
So you're at work or you're atschool or you're around a lot of
people, friends, family,whatever.
And there's a lot of commotion.
There's a lot of talking.
There's a lot of stimulus goingon around you.
It tends to drown out thatlow-level hum in the background
of that discomfort.
So you get distracted from itbecause there's so much going on
(12:14):
around you.
I notice that people, when theyget high, get drunk, they tend
to isolate.
That was my thing, right?
Isolate and then get drunk.
What's the isolation about?
And the isolation is where thepush comes.
So you isolate because you'restarting to feel uncomfortable,
(12:38):
but you don't want to be aroundpeople because you don't want to
have to explain anything.
So then you tend to isolate evenmore.
And that's when you start using.
So people who are addicts, theydo their best thing.
usage when they're by themselvesthat's when they're like they
turn into the professionals andthat's that's the time that you
(12:59):
um are very definitely going tobe actively engaged in your
addiction at a much higher levelright i mean you're going to be
using more you're going to drinkmore you're going to shoot up
more you just want more and whathappens in your head is you
start really focusing on thosethings that are uncomfortable So
(13:19):
I'm always very concerned when Ihear that somebody is isolating
frequently and they're anaddict.
To me, that's like, they'reprobably using a lot.
And it's for extended periods oftime.
So somebody who doesn't have ajob or somebody who's not going
to school, they're living bythemselves.
They're just kind of isolating.
(13:40):
In that way, there's too muchtime going on.
What happens when you're tryingto get through that, what do we
do?
Like we put you in a rehab.
And for some, it seems like, oh,I'm being imprisoned.
When in fact, you're notactually being imprisoned.
What's happening is we'reputting you in with other
people.
And people will come into rehaband they're very uncomfortable
(14:05):
because they're around peoplethey don't know.
And they can't be by themselvesa whole lot.
It's very limited, the time thatyou can be by yourselves.
And they get checked on all thetime.
That's the other thing.
There's room checks, right?
So in the middle of the night,you're going to come in and
check on you and see if you'redoing okay.
(14:26):
And when you're in the processof going through rehab, what are
we doing?
We're doing groups.
We're doing process groups.
We're doing AA groups or NAgroups.
We're doing...
yoga we're doing meditationgroups everything's a group
group group group and that'sbecause we're trying to teach
people to um to not get in theirown heads too much right there's
(14:50):
a lot of sharing so we'll sit ina group and ask to participate
uh and be called on toparticipate that's the other
thing is like it's a littleuncomfortable because it's not
like aa where you can just sitthere the whole time and not say
anything and get up and leave atthe end but In a process group,
in rehab, you don't do that.
You actually get asked to speak.
You're told to speak, right?
(15:11):
What's on your mind.
So being in a group is helpfulbecause it changes the isolation
thing.
But it doesn't change thediscomfort.
What does change the discomfort?
What is the thing that breaksthrough the discomfort and makes
it so that you can toleratecomfortable?
That's the pull.
And the pull is the thing thatpulls you out of discomfort.
(15:34):
Or in full recovery, we justlearn to be able to tolerate
discomfort, which is not a skillset that addicts have.
So being able to tolerateuncomfortable, how do you get
there?
(15:54):
I have people practiceexperiencing it in smaller
portions.
The feeling of discomfort can beso overwhelming.
First, it's kind of like one ofthose white noise machines
that's in the background thatyou're still able to talk over
it.
And then as the discomfort getsmore intense, that white noise
(16:17):
gets so loud that it's likeyou're in a room and there's a
jet going on.
There's a jet airplane startingup right next to you and you
can't talk.
It's just so overwhelming.
You can't tolerate it.
So I have them practice...
Being in discomfort, beinguncomfortable in a short
(16:38):
duration, so maybe five minutesor eight minutes or ten minutes,
where you can sit and you canactually feel your feelings,
that's what we call processing.
Processing is just feeling yourfeelings.
That's another term for feelingyour feelings.
So you process it.
Now, sometimes I'll have themcome into my office and we will
(17:00):
talk about the feeling thatthey're having like what is it
you're uncomfortable can youtell me why what's going on
how's this how are youexperiencing this what's
happening and they talk about itnow the point is not to make
them feel worse I'm not going toget all Dr.
Phil on them and have them talkabout their problems and cut to
the commercial and there's noresolution to anything it's no
(17:22):
describe it to me like what'shappening because I want them to
be present with it and I'mchecking to make sure that
they're you know they're havingan appropriate response If
you're describing it in thatweird, disconnected,
disinterested third-partydescription of what's happening,
that's you dissociating.
(17:43):
If you can't get through thedescription, that's too
overwhelming.
So you either go...
You're underwhelmed or you'reoverwhelmed.
There's a happy medium betweenthem.
It's just tell me the story.
Tell me what's happening.
Tell me what you're thinkingabout.
And then I let them do that forfive minutes.
Even if they just give me liketwo sentences.
(18:04):
But I'll give them five minutesin that discomfort.
And then we will change thesubject.
We'll move away from it.
Then I'll ask them...
you know, 10 minutes later,like, so when you were feeling
uncomfortable, how are youfeeling now?
Are you feeling stilluncomfortable with what we, you
know, you were describing or isit less?
And if it's less, that's great.
(18:24):
That's not the point to get themto feeling at last, but it's, I
want to know that they've backedoff from it a bit.
So they've been able toexperience feeling uncomfortable
in the presence of anotherperson and then come back from
that discomfort and in thepresence of another person and
get nothing from that person.
In other words, I'm notrejecting what they're doing.
(18:45):
I'm not telling them theyshouldn't be feeling that way.
I'm not telling them that theyshould feel a different way.
I'm not trying to distract themwhen they're in that discomfort.
I'm just letting them experiencediscomfort.
And they get through it, right?
They get through the discomfortand they realize that Okay, I
(19:06):
guess I can describe it.
It's okay on the other side.
And they didn't use.
And they're back.
It's like they're there, they'reuncomfortable, and then they're
back.
If you can practice that slowlyover time, like in these small
durations, the discomfortbecomes less impactful on you.
(19:31):
And that is...
The pull, right?
I'm pulling away from thediscomfort.
I'm pushing into it, then I'mpulling away from it.
Being able to toleratediscomfort is a skill.
I think it's a skill that youpractice.
At least that's my opinion.
Now, you may have a differentopinion about it, but that's my
(19:53):
opinion.
The skill of the push and pullof discomfort is learning how to
embrace the discomfort andtolerate it.
There are things in the medicalcommunity when we're describing,
when we're doing a nursediagnosis, for example, a
nursing, somebody who's a nursewill ask questions about, you
(20:14):
know, are you washing your face?
Are you showering?
Are your clothes clean?
Did you clean your clothes?
Do you brush your teeth?
Are you eating regularly?
These are called the activitiesof daily living, the ADLs.
When somebody is not engaging intheir ADLs, we know there's an
issue.
There's something going on.
Now, we don't know what it is,but it's an indicator of
(20:35):
something.
So we've diagnosed that theperson is not engaging in their
ADLs, and then we have to lookat causes.
That's like the definition ofaddiction right there.
It's like there are no ADLsgoing on.
They kind of fall away.
And again, it's the discomfortthing.
(20:56):
So what I'm looking for are, areyou able to engage in the ADLs?
And then are the everydaymisery, is that something you
can tolerate?
Everyday misery is you go out toget in your car to go to work
and you got a flat tire.
Or...
You were planning on havingdinner with some friends and you
(21:19):
got sick and you can't go.
Or you wanted to go to themovies and you got some friends
and you went to the movies andthey were sold out and you
couldn't go.
That's called everyday misery.
Tolerance for everyday miserygoes down exponentially if you
are prone to intolerance ofdiscomfort in general.
(21:42):
And addicts...
That would be the excuse for theaddict to say, hey, well, we
couldn't do that, so let's godrink.
Because I really was lookingforward to the movie and I can't
do it.
And I can't say that and I don'tknow how to process that.
So everyday misery tolerancegoes down to practicing being
(22:04):
able to withstand uncomfortablein short durations and
progressively over time, weeks,weeks.
months you learn how to toleratediscomfort more and more and
that is what recovery is aboutif you have a horribly traumatic
childhood you feel horrible inrelationships and you have all
(22:29):
those relational dysfunctionsand personal habits that are
coping mechanisms all that stuffSo when you have those and
they're fully present in yourlife and taking over, you're
probably going to end upengaging in your drug of choice.
If you can work through thosethings through a therapeutic
process with a therapist and youcan relearn how to tolerate
(22:52):
discomfort and work through thetraumas that you experience
through EMDR or...
visualization techniques orattachment theory approach to
treating how you know engagingrelationships and change
whatever whatever it is whateverthe therapeutic process you use
if you can do that engage in atherapeutic process with with a
(23:13):
licensed trained therapist whospecializes in that kind of work
and you work on the um A littlebit of exposure therapy, I
suppose.
You're exposing yourself to somediscomfort and coming out on the
other side feeling okay.
You're pushing into it, thenyou're pulling away from it.
And you learn how to do that.
(23:33):
You will start...
your path of recovery.
I'm always very, very concernedabout my clients who just cannot
tolerate discomfort and theywill not try to change that.
I'm very concerned for thembecause I know that it's going
to be very difficult for them tostop using a coping mechanism or
even trying to find areplacement coping mechanism
(23:55):
because they're going to go towhat works.
That's what they think.
This works.
It never works as good as it didthe first time, obviously, but
But it works, sort of.
And so I'm very concerned aboutthem until they start exposing
what's making themuncomfortable.
What is it that's making you souncomfortable?
What happened to you?
(24:17):
And it's the what happened toyou that will lead you to the
path of recovery.
So, fearlessly and bravely, withcourage and...
Certainty, moving into atherapeutic process for recovery
is not about not using your drugof choice.
(24:39):
It's about healing from thetraumas that you have and
learning how to toleratediscomfort in a much healthier
fashion.
So what I want you to do is Iwant you to work on that and try
to see if you can get into thepresence of somebody else and
preferably a therapist andpractice that.
(25:01):
working on feeling comfortablewhen you're uncomfortable.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeof Doc Shock, Your Addiction
Lifeguard.
I am Dr.
Jacques Debrucker.
Doc Shock, Your AddictionLifeguard on the beach of
potential misery, but I'm hereto help rescue you from all that
(25:22):
misery.
Listen, if you're havingproblems with addiction and
addiction-related stuff, go gethelp.
Don't risk your life to saveyour addiction.
That's insanity.
So get the help.
Go to rehab.
Get a therapist.
Go to the rooms and Go to AA orNA or any of the A's and get
some help.
(25:43):
But don't destroy yourself.
And if you like this episode ofDoc Shock, your addiction
lifeguard, subscribe, like, andtell a friend.
You can also comment.
But until next time, this is DocShock, your addiction lifeguard,
saying see ya.
It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction
lifeguard podcast.
I am Dr.
Jock DeBerker, a psychologist,licensed professional counselor,
and addiction specialist.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, misery, trauma,
whatever it is, I'm here tohelp.
If you're in search of help totry to get your life back
together, join me here at DocJock, your addiction lifeguard,
(00:22):
the addiction recovery podcast.
I wanted to be real clear aboutwhat this podcast is intended
for.
It is intended for entertainmentand informational purposes but
(00:45):
not considered help.
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
Please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
(01:06):
It's not.
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light.
All right.
Have a good time.
Learn something and then get thereal help that you need from a
professional.
Why do addicts use?
(01:33):
Why do they have to use to...
get out of their brains.
Why is that?
I get asked that question allthe time.
I get asked that question bypeople who are in recovery when
they've gotten through the wholecycle of addiction.
I get asked that by familymembers of people who are
addicts and are confused by whatthey're seeing.
(01:53):
I get asked that by people whoare at the early stages of
recovery and they just can'tfigure out why they can't stop
and it doesn't make any sense tothem.
I get asked by people thatquestion all the time.
Literally, all the time.
It's almost a daily event.
And the answer that I give isalways the same.
(02:13):
It's because that person isuncomfortable.
And there's a series of videosthat I ask people to watch
sometimes.
It's called The Soft WhiteUnderbelly.
And it's real people beinginterviewed for 30 minutes, 40
minutes about their tragiclives.
And the videos, sometimesthey're in black and white,
(02:36):
sometimes they're in color.
And the ones that are theinterviews, and they're on
YouTube, by the way, so it'scalled the soft white
underbelly.
And they're interviews of just aperson.
They're just being interviewedabout their life.
And it could be a prostitute.
It could be a drug addict.
It could be somebody who's adrug dealer.
(02:57):
This guy will literally pullpeople off the street asked them
if they want to just come in andcan be interviewed about their
lives.
And he sits them in a chair, ina stool, in a studio, and they
just tell their lives.
And it's really interesting whenyou watch.
And they're pretty compellingstories.
I mean, it's just...
(03:20):
And a lot of times you can tellthey're just very uncomfortable.
A lot of times they just don'twant to be participating in this
interview.
They don't...
It's just feeling veryuncomfortable.
And so they're asked thesequestions about, you know, how
did you get here?
What happened to you?
How do you live now?
(03:41):
And it's really interestingbecause I can see that, you
know, when they started off, youcan tell that like there was
always this traumaticexperience.
experiences that they had use oftheir childhoods if they talk
about their childhoods they'llsay it was really bad and
they'll go into detail about itbut what's really interesting is
that the amount of trauma thatthese people have experienced in
their lives is always it's justoff the scales and so they're
(04:05):
and they got derailed right andthen one thing led to another
and it led to another tragedyupon tragedy homelessness
getting assaulted uh having toyou know you have no money so
you end up prostituting yourselfor you know seeing stealing or
whatever the case is.
But it's always just incredibleamount of discomfort and tragedy
and horror that they'redescribing.
(04:27):
And that's what comes in to mewhen I'm treating people.
The person that comes in, theyalways have these just horrific
stories of just tragedy.
And it's heartbreaking manytimes, the stories that they
tell.
And it's interesting becausethey tell them with a level of
dissociation, the disconnect, inorder to understand that what
(04:51):
they're telling is perhaps nottheir story.
They have to get into that placein their head where they're
talking about...
it's almost like they're talkingabout somebody else right i mean
there's a level of dissociationthat has to occur in order for
them to be able to survive inthat that uh that world that
(05:11):
they were in and it's like it'sturned it's like it was somebody
else and it's at first i thoughtit was kind of an apathetic
approach that they were feelingthis apathy this lack of feeling
uh about their own tragedy butthen i realized that's
purposeful right they are tryingvery hard It's hard not to feel
(05:31):
the pain that has been inflictedupon them and the only way they
can do that is to describe it asif it's somebody else.
I've heard the same thing fromwomen who have been in my office
who are They're in the pornindustry, and they talk about
the things that they're doingfor money, and they connect to
(05:56):
themselves when they're tellingthe story.
Yes, this is what happens, butthey give the person that's
doing the act as somebody else.
That's a different person.
They don't use these like astage name, right?
Well, that stage name takes on apersona, and it's not them.
That's how they approach it.
Like, it's not me.
(06:17):
It's Cherry Delight or whoever,whatever their name is they've
given themselves when they'reengaging in these acts.
And it's a way of dissociating.
It's a coping skill that welearn as children, the little
fantasy world.
Unfortunately, as adults...
It becomes problematic becauseliving in a fantasy world and
(06:40):
having a fantasy identity whenyou are a full-grown adult and
supposed to be functioning insociety is not helpful at all.
It makes you dysfunctional.
But the push and pull of thatdissociation, the push and pull
of discomfort is what people whohave addiction engage in.
(07:01):
And so if you are a loved oneand you're watching somebody
that's engaging in nonsensicaluse of drugs and alcohol and it
doesn't make any sense to you,it's like, why don't you just
stop?
Well, they can't, right?
They're trying to not feeldiscomfort.
And that's the best way they'vecome up with.
So whatever it is, huffingpaint, shooting up, drinking...
(07:24):
pornography, gambling, shopping,you know, just you go through
the whole list of addictivethings that you do.
But what you're doing is you'retrying to not feel discomfort.
So to me, what's kind of aninteresting thing is trying to
teach people how to sit withtheir discomfort.
It's very difficult for them todo that.
(07:45):
Many times the the trauma thatthey've experienced as you know,
as you as you You probably, ifyou're listening to this, you
probably have that.
It's so overwhelming, right?
It's not just a, yeah, I flunkedout of school.
You know, it's my...
nephew or or not nephew probablybut like uncle was molesting me
(08:08):
or my aunt was was beating me ormy mom put cigarettes out on my
on my arm and used to punch meand just i mean these are just
really severe things now you mayhave not suffered that level of
trauma that was severe like thatbut one person's trauma is
another person's tolerable soyou you may not have been
(08:31):
affected by a heavy amount oftrauma seemingly but it doesn't
mean it wasn't traumatic to youuh my my uh family i had trauma
going on there was a lot ofverbal and emotional abuse that
was heaped on me by my father mymother was physically beating my
(08:54):
sister and that was unknown tome i never ever saw it And my
sister could describe in graphicdetail the things of the
beatings, slapping.
She even broke my sister'scollarbone at one point when she
was three.
And so it's a terrible thingwhen you suffer in emotional
(09:19):
abuse, but it leaves no scars.
Verbal abuse, it leaves noscars.
Physical abuse sometimes canleave no scars.
Getting punched or kicked maynot leave a bruise, but it
definitely is inflicting pain.
So it doesn't have to besomething that's completely
visible.
So you feel uncomfortablebecause you were traumatized.
(09:40):
Combat vets get traumatized.
People who are first respondersget exposure trauma or direct
trauma through dealing withtrauma.
victims of car accidents andwhatever.
So it just takes all kinds ofdifferent forms.
So you feel uncomfortable, andnow you can't offload that
discomfort.
Many times people can't reallytalk about it.
(10:03):
They're not in a place wherethey can.
Police, first responders, EMSpeople, they talk to themselves.
They talk amongst themselves,but they don't talk to the
outside world.
So then you have...
The red wall or the blue wall,the wall of protection around a
police officer that makes itimpossible for him to or her to
(10:24):
talk to the general public.
And then they become the generalpublic becomes unrelatable.
And unfortunately, with policeofficers, there's also a high
degree of suspicion that peoplehave in society of them and they
treat them differently.
So it's like as soon as you puton a uniform, you get treated
differently, and that separatesyou from the regular general
population, which is unfortunatebecause police officers are
(10:46):
usually very good, kind people.
They just are separated fromsociety through their own doing
and through society's doing aswell.
So when you're feelinguncomfortable, you want to get
high, you want to get drunk, youwant to offload that feeling,
but you can't.
So what you do is you try toalter it.
So the answer of why are peopleusing it is because they're
(11:09):
uncomfortable.
Why can't they do somethingelse?
Because other things they trieddidn't work.
That's what it comes down to.
Now, if you have a situationwhere you have a drug of choice
going into it and you gettraumatized, then you're just
going to start overusing thatdrug of choice.
But many times it's the persongets exposed to the drug of
(11:31):
choice and now you've instantlygot an addict.
And off to the races you go.
But the push and pull of trauma,or discomfort rather, the push
and pull of discomfort isinteresting because there are
times when you get through yourday as an addict and you can
tolerate the discomfort.
Maybe it's because there's somuch noise going on around you.
(11:53):
So you're at work or you're atschool or you're around a lot of
people, friends, family,whatever.
And there's a lot of commotion.
There's a lot of talking.
There's a lot of stimulus goingon around you.
It tends to drown out thatlow-level hum in the background
of that discomfort.
So you get distracted from itbecause there's so much going on
(12:14):
around you.
I notice that people, when theyget high, get drunk, they tend
to isolate.
That was my thing, right?
Isolate and then get drunk.
What's the isolation about?
And the isolation is where thepush comes.
So you isolate because you'restarting to feel uncomfortable,
(12:38):
but you don't want to be aroundpeople because you don't want to
have to explain anything.
So then you tend to isolate evenmore.
And that's when you start using.
So people who are addicts, theydo their best thing.
usage when they're by themselvesthat's when they're like they
turn into the professionals andthat's that's the time that you
(12:59):
um are very definitely going tobe actively engaged in your
addiction at a much higher levelright i mean you're going to be
using more you're going to drinkmore you're going to shoot up
more you just want more and whathappens in your head is you
start really focusing on thosethings that are uncomfortable So
(13:19):
I'm always very concerned when Ihear that somebody is isolating
frequently and they're anaddict.
To me, that's like, they'reprobably using a lot.
And it's for extended periods oftime.
So somebody who doesn't have ajob or somebody who's not going
to school, they're living bythemselves.
They're just kind of isolating.
(13:40):
In that way, there's too muchtime going on.
What happens when you're tryingto get through that, what do we
do?
Like we put you in a rehab.
And for some, it seems like, oh,I'm being imprisoned.
When in fact, you're notactually being imprisoned.
What's happening is we'reputting you in with other
people.
And people will come into rehaband they're very uncomfortable
(14:05):
because they're around peoplethey don't know.
And they can't be by themselvesa whole lot.
It's very limited, the time thatyou can be by yourselves.
And they get checked on all thetime.
That's the other thing.
There's room checks, right?
So in the middle of the night,you're going to come in and
check on you and see if you'redoing okay.
(14:26):
And when you're in the processof going through rehab, what are
we doing?
We're doing groups.
We're doing process groups.
We're doing AA groups or NAgroups.
We're doing...
yoga we're doing meditationgroups everything's a group
group group group and that'sbecause we're trying to teach
people to um to not get in theirown heads too much right there's
(14:50):
a lot of sharing so we'll sit ina group and ask to participate
uh and be called on toparticipate that's the other
thing is like it's a littleuncomfortable because it's not
like aa where you can just sitthere the whole time and not say
anything and get up and leave atthe end but In a process group,
in rehab, you don't do that.
You actually get asked to speak.
You're told to speak, right?
(15:11):
What's on your mind.
So being in a group is helpfulbecause it changes the isolation
thing.
But it doesn't change thediscomfort.
What does change the discomfort?
What is the thing that breaksthrough the discomfort and makes
it so that you can toleratecomfortable?
That's the pull.
And the pull is the thing thatpulls you out of discomfort.
(15:34):
Or in full recovery, we justlearn to be able to tolerate
discomfort, which is not a skillset that addicts have.
So being able to tolerateuncomfortable, how do you get
there?
(15:54):
I have people practiceexperiencing it in smaller
portions.
The feeling of discomfort can beso overwhelming.
First, it's kind of like one ofthose white noise machines
that's in the background thatyou're still able to talk over
it.
And then as the discomfort getsmore intense, that white noise
(16:17):
gets so loud that it's likeyou're in a room and there's a
jet going on.
There's a jet airplane startingup right next to you and you
can't talk.
It's just so overwhelming.
You can't tolerate it.
So I have them practice...
Being in discomfort, beinguncomfortable in a short
(16:38):
duration, so maybe five minutesor eight minutes or ten minutes,
where you can sit and you canactually feel your feelings,
that's what we call processing.
Processing is just feeling yourfeelings.
That's another term for feelingyour feelings.
So you process it.
Now, sometimes I'll have themcome into my office and we will
(17:00):
talk about the feeling thatthey're having like what is it
you're uncomfortable can youtell me why what's going on
how's this how are youexperiencing this what's
happening and they talk about itnow the point is not to make
them feel worse I'm not going toget all Dr.
Phil on them and have them talkabout their problems and cut to
the commercial and there's noresolution to anything it's no
(17:22):
describe it to me like what'shappening because I want them to
be present with it and I'mchecking to make sure that
they're you know they're havingan appropriate response If
you're describing it in thatweird, disconnected,
disinterested third-partydescription of what's happening,
that's you dissociating.
(17:43):
If you can't get through thedescription, that's too
overwhelming.
So you either go...
You're underwhelmed or you'reoverwhelmed.
There's a happy medium betweenthem.
It's just tell me the story.
Tell me what's happening.
Tell me what you're thinkingabout.
And then I let them do that forfive minutes.
Even if they just give me liketwo sentences.
(18:04):
But I'll give them five minutesin that discomfort.
And then we will change thesubject.
We'll move away from it.
Then I'll ask them...
you know, 10 minutes later,like, so when you were feeling
uncomfortable, how are youfeeling now?
Are you feeling stilluncomfortable with what we, you
know, you were describing or isit less?
And if it's less, that's great.
(18:24):
That's not the point to get themto feeling at last, but it's, I
want to know that they've backedoff from it a bit.
So they've been able toexperience feeling uncomfortable
in the presence of anotherperson and then come back from
that discomfort and in thepresence of another person and
get nothing from that person.
In other words, I'm notrejecting what they're doing.
(18:45):
I'm not telling them theyshouldn't be feeling that way.
I'm not telling them that theyshould feel a different way.
I'm not trying to distract themwhen they're in that discomfort.
I'm just letting them experiencediscomfort.
And they get through it, right?
They get through the discomfortand they realize that Okay, I
(19:06):
guess I can describe it.
It's okay on the other side.
And they didn't use.
And they're back.
It's like they're there, they'reuncomfortable, and then they're
back.
If you can practice that slowlyover time, like in these small
durations, the discomfortbecomes less impactful on you.
(19:31):
And that is...
The pull, right?
I'm pulling away from thediscomfort.
I'm pushing into it, then I'mpulling away from it.
Being able to toleratediscomfort is a skill.
I think it's a skill that youpractice.
At least that's my opinion.
Now, you may have a differentopinion about it, but that's my
(19:53):
opinion.
The skill of the push and pullof discomfort is learning how to
embrace the discomfort andtolerate it.
There are things in the medicalcommunity when we're describing,
when we're doing a nursediagnosis, for example, a
nursing, somebody who's a nursewill ask questions about, you
(20:14):
know, are you washing your face?
Are you showering?
Are your clothes clean?
Did you clean your clothes?
Do you brush your teeth?
Are you eating regularly?
These are called the activitiesof daily living, the ADLs.
When somebody is not engaging intheir ADLs, we know there's an
issue.
There's something going on.
Now, we don't know what it is,but it's an indicator of
(20:35):
something.
So we've diagnosed that theperson is not engaging in their
ADLs, and then we have to lookat causes.
That's like the definition ofaddiction right there.
It's like there are no ADLsgoing on.
They kind of fall away.
And again, it's the discomfortthing.
(20:56):
So what I'm looking for are, areyou able to engage in the ADLs?
And then are the everydaymisery, is that something you
can tolerate?
Everyday misery is you go out toget in your car to go to work
and you got a flat tire.
Or...
You were planning on havingdinner with some friends and you
(21:19):
got sick and you can't go.
Or you wanted to go to themovies and you got some friends
and you went to the movies andthey were sold out and you
couldn't go.
That's called everyday misery.
Tolerance for everyday miserygoes down exponentially if you
are prone to intolerance ofdiscomfort in general.
(21:42):
And addicts...
That would be the excuse for theaddict to say, hey, well, we
couldn't do that, so let's godrink.
Because I really was lookingforward to the movie and I can't
do it.
And I can't say that and I don'tknow how to process that.
So everyday misery tolerancegoes down to practicing being
(22:04):
able to withstand uncomfortablein short durations and
progressively over time, weeks,weeks.
months you learn how to toleratediscomfort more and more and
that is what recovery is aboutif you have a horribly traumatic
childhood you feel horrible inrelationships and you have all
(22:29):
those relational dysfunctionsand personal habits that are
coping mechanisms all that stuffSo when you have those and
they're fully present in yourlife and taking over, you're
probably going to end upengaging in your drug of choice.
If you can work through thosethings through a therapeutic
process with a therapist and youcan relearn how to tolerate
(22:52):
discomfort and work through thetraumas that you experience
through EMDR or...
visualization techniques orattachment theory approach to
treating how you know engagingrelationships and change
whatever whatever it is whateverthe therapeutic process you use
if you can do that engage in atherapeutic process with with a
(23:13):
licensed trained therapist whospecializes in that kind of work
and you work on the um A littlebit of exposure therapy, I
suppose.
You're exposing yourself to somediscomfort and coming out on the
other side feeling okay.
You're pushing into it, thenyou're pulling away from it.
And you learn how to do that.
(23:33):
You will start...
your path of recovery.
I'm always very, very concernedabout my clients who just cannot
tolerate discomfort and theywill not try to change that.
I'm very concerned for thembecause I know that it's going
to be very difficult for them tostop using a coping mechanism or
even trying to find areplacement coping mechanism
(23:55):
because they're going to go towhat works.
That's what they think.
This works.
It never works as good as it didthe first time, obviously, but
But it works, sort of.
And so I'm very concerned aboutthem until they start exposing
what's making themuncomfortable.
What is it that's making you souncomfortable?
What happened to you?
(24:17):
And it's the what happened toyou that will lead you to the
path of recovery.
So, fearlessly and bravely, withcourage and...
Certainty, moving into atherapeutic process for recovery
is not about not using your drugof choice.
(24:39):
It's about healing from thetraumas that you have and
learning how to toleratediscomfort in a much healthier
fashion.
So what I want you to do is Iwant you to work on that and try
to see if you can get into thepresence of somebody else and
preferably a therapist andpractice that.
(25:01):
working on feeling comfortablewhen you're uncomfortable.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeof Doc Shock, Your Addiction
Lifeguard.
I am Dr.
Jacques Debrucker.
Doc Shock, Your AddictionLifeguard on the beach of
potential misery, but I'm hereto help rescue you from all that
(25:22):
misery.
Listen, if you're havingproblems with addiction and
addiction-related stuff, go gethelp.
Don't risk your life to saveyour addiction.
That's insanity.
So get the help.
Go to rehab.
Get a therapist.
Go to the rooms and Go to AA orNA or any of the A's and get
some help.
(25:43):
But don't destroy yourself.
And if you like this episode ofDoc Shock, your addiction
lifeguard, subscribe, like, andtell a friend.
You can also comment.
But until next time, this is DocShock, your addiction lifeguard,
saying see ya.
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