September 6, 2024 • 30 mins
The stages of the focus of recovery as described by someone who has been working on recovery for the past year are great words of wisdom. Listen to learn what they are.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
The Addiction Recovery Podcast.
(00:37):
It's just a podcast.
(01:07):
podcast it's for entertainmentand information only so let's
keep it in that light all righthave a good time learn something
and then get the real help thatyou need from a professional
(01:30):
somebody that i know that's beenworking very hard on his
recovery came up with somethingthat I think is just golden.
So I thought I'd steal it fromhim and tell you about it.
I'm going to call this thestages of recovery because even
though this is not the officialstages of recovery, but these
(01:52):
were his stages of recovery.
And I think it was justabsolutely brilliant.
So here we go.
You ready?
Stages of recovery.
He put it into four categories.
He put it into what you work onas you're working on recovery in
the order that you do it.
Now, these would apply to peoplewho are in a relationship and
(02:17):
have children.
So if you don't have that, maybeyou can modify what I'm about to
say to fit your specificsituation.
So here we go.
So he's got them in the order ofwhat you work on.
So this is the stages that youwork on in the category.
So drinking, then self, thenmarriage, and then kids.
(02:42):
So it's drinking, self,marriage, and kids.
And the reason that he put themin this order is because he was
struggling with trying to getthe work done on the stages
because he had them, he felt,out of order because he was
trying to work on um he wastrying to work on him on
(03:04):
drinking he got that part rightso you got to stop drinking and
he got that part so he he'd stopdrinking but then he was working
on uh sometimes he would work onhis kids and then other times
he'd work on his marriage butthen he would also then shift
over and start working onhimself and then self and then
(03:24):
kids and then marriage andforget about the other part so
he just kept like forgetting ornot engaging in in the parts and
he couldn't get it right sothat's how he came to the
conclusion that it was actuallydrinking self marriage and then
kids and so like we talk aboutum you know in in uh
(03:45):
relationships it's your yourmarriage is first then your kids
and then everything else If youare a Christian or a Jew, it's
God, then marriage, then kids,then everything else.
So the idea that your marriageis first, right?
(04:06):
So you're putting your kidsafter your marriage.
Now, seemingly that could be notthe way you're supposed to do
it.
However, if you think about it,your marriage is important, and
if your marriage is fracturedand destroyed...
Your kids are a mess, right?
So you can focus on your kidsall you want, but if you don't
have a good relationship withyour spouse, then you're going
to have some problems, right?
(04:27):
So many times people will get itin the wrong order, particularly
drinking.
I've had many, many clients whodo not put drinking or drug use
as their primary focus.
They start working on theirmarriage.
There are so many times whenI'll get a couple that comes in
(04:47):
And one of them is severelyaddicted to their drug of choice
or moderately addicted to theirdrug of choice.
And they come to me for marriagecounseling.
And it's interesting because thething that they've not been able
to do is extinguish theaddiction first.
(05:08):
And so then the spouse, it couldbe the husband or the wife, the
one who's not having anaddiction problem will drag the
other one who has an addictionproblem into counseling because
the marriage is not working.
And the addict can't understandwhy they're in counseling
(05:28):
because everything's fineaccording to them.
And the one that is the sober orclean one in the relationship is
just at wit's end because therelationship that's not working
because they have a mistress orwhat's the word you use for
somebody who is a female thathas a mister?
(05:51):
But you have somebody thatyou're having an extramarital
affair with.
And in this case, it's a drug.
UNKNOWN (06:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
And you can't compete against that.
And the one who has theaddiction problem can't
understand why the other ishaving so many issues in the
relationship.
And it's because they'refighting against this person,
not a person, this drug thatthey have who has taken the
place of their spouse.
(06:21):
And so they do not and will notengage in extinguishing the
addiction.
and then work on the marriage.
So you can't do anything in yourmarriage.
If the destructive force is theenemy of addiction that is
attacking your marriage, youmust go after the enemy first.
(06:41):
So they come in, they startworking with me and invariably
somebody starts to mention, Hey,you know, there's drugs or
alcohol going on.
I'm like, okay, well that's aproblem.
Um, And of course, the addict isin complete denial, saying
everything's fine.
It's not me.
It's you.
All the other nonsense that goeson.
(07:02):
I mean, and you know, becauseyou're probably either doing
that or been subjected to thatyourself.
And they deny anything.
And so you can't really getanywhere.
So the marriage counseling endsreally quickly in those
instances.
It usually lasts one or twosessions and the person walks
out.
And that's the end of thecounseling.
I give my card to them.
(07:22):
And say, look, you know, we'veidentified a real significant
problem in your relationship andit is drugs and alcohol.
So let's, let's fix that.
And so they agree, then theydisagree and everything else
that goes on.
And nobody wants anything to dowith anything because nobody
wants to tackle the 800 poundgorilla in the room, the enemy.
(07:43):
Addiction.
So the first thing that must gois tackling the addiction and
extinguishing it.
So then you can begin to work onthe relationship.
Now, in the example of theperson that was talking about
these wise words, it happened tobe alcohol.
So they started with drinking.
But if you wanted to, you know,if it's drugs, if it's cocaine
(08:04):
or heroin or whatever, okay,well, then that's the issue.
So it's really not necessarilydrinking alcohol.
But it's substance abuse, right?
And that's number one.
So get into residentialtreatment.
Start working on recovery.
Stop focusing on everything elseinstead.
You know, fixing a marriage,fixing a problem with a kid,
(08:26):
fixing, you know, the problemsthat you don't like your job or
whatever, your location.
You can't move away from yourproblems.
You just move away from yourlocation.
Because wherever you go, thereyou are.
And everybody has heard that amillion times.
So the first thing is to work onthe addiction.
Because that is an identifiable,significant problem.
(08:46):
And as an addict...
when you're looking at yourproblems and you're trying to
figure out how do I get better?
How do I get to a better place?
Have some insight, use your, useyour insight, what little you
may have left, but use that tosay, okay, I, I'm destroying
(09:07):
everything.
Maybe, maybe, you know, if youlisten, if you're going to a
counselor and that counselorunderstands addiction, listen to
your counselor and the counselorsays, Hey, I, This is a problem.
Surrender to that.
Stop fighting it.
I know you've probably heard it,so stop fighting it.
So once he began to work onthat, and it took him a while.
(09:31):
It took him the normal sixmonths, eight months, nine
months before he could reallystart to get a handle on his
addiction.
And he stopped with thebehaviors of addiction.
He then was struggling withself-marriage and kids.
His work was his work, and sothat was not an issue.
It didn't negatively impact hiswork.
(09:52):
He was able to still function,and I know some of you perhaps
have lost your job because ofyour substance abuse, and okay,
that's an issue.
But the working on self...
is what in his estimate was thevery next thing you do.
And I would completely agreewith that because I'm actually
(10:13):
the one that kind of led himdown this path and told him
these things.
He was just spitting it back tome.
But you work on self.
And that work on self is not thedrinking part, right?
Or the drugs.
Remember, that was the firstthing you tackled.
The second thing is self.
(10:35):
Meaning...
Your trauma, your history, thereasons that your relationships
fall apart.
Now, if you've addressed youraddiction and the stuff that you
did as an addict, you've alreadystarted to begin the work beyond
just extinguishing the badbehavior of the drug usage or
alcohol usage.
(10:55):
You've already addressed that.
But now it moves more towardslike, who am I and what have I
been acting like?
And in that case, you reallyneed to understand what it is
you've been doing and in yourrelationships.
So addressing those things,working on self.
(11:16):
Maybe your drug usage has madeyou very fragile.
You've lost your teeth.
You've got heart problems.
You've got liver problems.
You've got neuropathy.
You've got diabetes.
the wet brain, right?
And your brain, you can'tremember anything.
So you got to feed yourselfwell.
You got to exercise.
(11:36):
You got to learn how to sleepagain.
You need to shore up that partof it.
When you're offering yourself upto the world, either to friends
or family and you, you know, asbeing in a relationship,
physically and mentally healthypeople engage in relationships.
Those who are not mentally andphysically healthy cannot engage
(11:57):
in a relationship And if theydo, it's not in a healthy way
and they are not healthythemselves.
So you must engage in that kindof self-help.
And it seems...
when you're coming intorecovery, that that seemingly is
a selfish thing to do when infact it is not.
(12:20):
So you engage in those self-helpthings that are helping others
around you, right?
So you want to haverelationships, start working on
those things.
I can't tell you how many peoplethat I work with who do not
sleep well, they do not eatwell, and they never exercise
and they're miserable.
(12:41):
They're physically a wreck.
They are emotionally a wreck.
And the idea of becoming morephysical.
And listen, for me, I tell them,take a walk.
Start walking regularly.
Just go outside and startwalking.
Start with that.
Begin a process of...
(13:02):
active motion in your life.
You don't have to join a gym,get a personal trainer and start
working out like crazy.
You don't start with that.
You may go that route, but youdon't start with that.
But what I'm talking about isjust go out and start walking.
Go walk around the block.
Take your dog for a walk.
Take your spouse for a walk.
Take your kids for a walk.
But just get out and startmoving.
(13:23):
Movement is important.
Once you've done that for awhile, you can move on to some
structured exercise programwhere you're either increasing
your heart rate, you'rebreathing, you're sweating, and
it could be anything.
And it doesn't matter whatcondition you're in to start
with.
It doesn't matter what you'vedone to yourself with your
addiction.
And most people, especially ifit's alcohol, by the time I get
(13:44):
them, they have had significanthealth problems and they don't
feel good.
It just doesn't feel good.
Other drugs can affect you indifferent ways.
Cocaine, crystal meth, you'velost tons of weight.
You probably have a lot ofmuscle wasting.
If it's heroin, you're just veryapathetic and you don't really
(14:07):
want to do anything.
You're just so used to justnodding off and zoning out that
you're not motivated to do muchof anything.
But you can do things to improveyour health.
It's just how are you going todo it.
So I don't care what you'redoing.
I really don't.
It doesn't matter.
Get out and start walking.
Start playing golf, tennis.
(14:29):
Start playing, oh my gosh,what's the name of the sport
that everybody's, pickleball?
Do anything.
Archery, go hiking.
That's a solo thing.
It doesn't cost anything.
Just a pair of shoes.
Just go out and do something.
If you're so inclined to, Andyou do like I love going to
(14:51):
gyms.
I've been in gyms all my adultlife.
I work out all the time.
I enjoy that.
That's me.
But just be outside.
Be inside.
Start doing something whereyou're breathing heavy and
you're sweating.
Right.
Get your heart rate up.
That's working on self.
Start learning how to be social.
(15:12):
Many times people lose theirsocialization skills, especially
with addiction, because mostaddicts that I run into, they
are not social.
They tend to isolate and cutthemselves off from other people
because that's how they'reengaging in their drug of
choice.
So start your socialization.
And if it's going to meetings,go to church, join some civic
(15:34):
group, do something where you'reinteracting with other people so
you can re-engage in society andyou can start to learn how to
talk to people.
Come out of your shell.
Usually when people are inrecovery, they are embarrassed
and upset about what they'vedone.
And they start to hide.
And the shame and embarrassmentthings really takes things away
(15:56):
from you.
And so you've got to get back inand socialize with people.
And, again, I don't care whereit is.
It's just not with a bunch ofactively engaged drug addicts or
alcoholics.
That's not good.
But anything else, join someparticipation group, right?
So people who hike, you know, goto Meetup.
(16:16):
In this country, we have a thingcalled Meetup.
It's an online thing.
source for finding people whohave similar interests and they
go to movies or they go hikingor they go play frisbee golf or
disc golf sorry or fly fishingor whatever tennis or pickleball
or whatever they do they meet upfor those things they meet up at
(16:36):
museums so like on Thursday orFriday night we're going to meet
up and we're going to watch amovie and then we're going to
talk about it at a restaurantand we're going to have dinner
and talk about the moviesomething like that.
We have that in this country.
In other countries, I don't knowwhat you've got, but just engage
in socialization activitieswhere you can learn to
(16:57):
re-socialize and to work throughyour own self-stigmatizing
thoughts about your addiction.
So you got physical, you gotsocial, and then you've got
mental.
Listen, man, if you've gotdepression and it's catastrophic
depression to you or anxiety,and it's got you having panic
attacks, things like that, youneed to get into counseling to
(17:19):
address that.
Don't become a victim of yourown self-doing.
So engage in things that arehelping your emotional
well-being, not related tosocial, but emotional.
If you have tremendous mentalhealth issues that are crippling
you, And I'm not talking aboutschizophrenia or something
(17:42):
mentally ill.
No, but just mental well-being.
Get help.
Go to counseling.
Get a therapist.
Start working through thatstuff.
You can't do that by yourself,and you can't do it with your
spouse.
Get professional help.
It will put you in a place whereyou can recover.
So you've got physical, you'vegot social, and you've got
(18:06):
mental well-being.
it's the trifecta.
So when you get to that place,you're going to feel much
better.
Then you begin to work on if,and in this case, his example
was marriage.
But if you have a relationship,whether you're dating somebody
or you're living togetherbecause you're married, whatever
(18:29):
the situation is, but you have aromantic relationship.
And I know Gen Z doesn't have alot of romantic relationship
stuff going on in this countryand perhaps in other countries
but uh there's a significantlacking of that but if you're in
a relationship with somebodyespecially if you've been
dragging them through theaddiction you know dragging them
(18:51):
through your addiction you youwork on that and and you can't
do that if you haven't worked onyourself Right?
Because you're still a hot mess.
So you've got to work on selfbefore you can work on the
relationship.
But when you enter into workingon the relationship, what are
you actually working on?
What you're actually working onin your relationship is the
(19:15):
relationship.
It's not the other person.
And if you're listening to thisand you're the person who has
been subjected to the addict andyou don't have addiction
yourself or you're...
and you're codependent or you'renot, but you can't be pointing
your finger at the other personand expect that you're in
counseling together and you'reworking on your relationship
(19:38):
because you're working on theother person.
It doesn't work that way.
That's not what it is.
When you go into couplescounseling, the relationship is
the client, not the twoindividuals in it.
It's the relationship that's theclient.
So the two of you are nowworking with a therapist to help
(20:00):
the relationship.
That means that what you'redoing is you're pointing the
finger at yourself instead ofthe other person and saying, I'm
entering this relationship, I'mstaying in this relationship,
but I'm going to work on myself.
And these are the things that Ineed to work on.
It's so easy and we're soconditioned to look at your
(20:20):
spouse and say, You're a messand you need to fix this and
ignore your own stuff, right?
So you turn that finger thatyou're pointing at the other
person, both of you, and turn ittowards yourself and say, I'm
going to work on myself.
Because even if the relationshipdoesn't survive.
(20:42):
you still have to be a healthierperson, right?
And the next relationship youget into is going to be a big
hot mess as well if you don't dothat.
So make sure you're doing that.
So you're working on yourselfand that's how you work on your
marriage.
You work on self and then youwork with a counselor who helps
kind of reintroduce you to thespouse because addiction changes
(21:06):
you.
Recovery also changes you.
And so whether you are theperson who is the quote-unquote
subject of the addiction, you'rethe addict, or you're the person
that is watching the addictself-destruct, that sobriety
kicks in, getting clean, gettingsober.
Well, guess what?
You're dealing with a differentperson.
(21:27):
And so you need to work on youas the addict is in recovery.
My standard thing that I'vesaid, and I've said this in many
of these podcasts, is that whensomebody is In recovery, the
addict is six to eight, maybenine months ahead in recovery
from the person that waswatching the addiction happen.
(21:50):
So if I'm the addict and my wifeis not an addict, but she's been
watching me spiral intoaddiction, I'm now getting into
recovery.
Three months in, my wife is notbelieving anything I'm saying.
She's not trusting it and she'snot believing it.
Six months in, she's starting tosee a consistent change, but
(22:13):
she's going to still be lookingat me with an extremely critical
eye.
Nine months, she's starting toget it.
She's starting to let her guarddown a bit.
By the time 12 months rollsaround, and especially if I've
been going to NA or AA meetings,and I'm going to have a one-year
chip celebration, guess who'sstanding next to me?
(22:34):
My spouse.
She hasn't been in thosemeetings, but she is there at
that one-year chip celebrationwhile she watches me receive my
chip for being sober for a year.
And it's a big deal, right?
She now is going to beunderstanding that my change is
real.
And that's probably the firsttime that there's been a strong
(22:55):
indicator that this is anauthentic and genuine change.
So the marriage, therelationship work that you do,
After you've worked on yourselfis the foundation for the
change.
That is the change and theblossoming, if you will, of a
new relationship that isdifferent because now I have
(23:16):
significantly changed becauseI've been walking through fire
and now I am.
done with walking through fireand I am changed.
So my spouse has also beenchanged because there's been so
much tragedy that she's beenexposed to at the same time in
my recovery or in my addictionrather.
And now in my recovery, she'sseen something.
(23:36):
So she's going to change too.
And it doesn't matter if it's ahusband or wife.
I mean, that's just kind of whathappens if you're the addict and
you're the husband or you're theaddict and you're the wife.
There is change.
So now we go to the last part,which is if you have children,
that change that those childrenare seeing, if they are under
the age of 18, they have nochoice about where they are.
(23:58):
They're just there.
And they don't have any choiceabout what they're exposed to.
They are just there.
And so if they are experiencingnegative stuff, they have no
control over it.
They need foundational change inthe marriage.
They need a demonstration of ofa solid relationship before you
(24:20):
can start to bring them closerto you.
Now, children, interestingly,they are easily damaged and they
are very resilient at the sametime.
So while they are damaged, ifthey're subjected to the
experience of having an addictparent, of course, but remember,
(24:41):
well, I wouldn't say remember,I've said this before, so that's
maybe what I'm saying, remember,All they are concerned about is
they want mom and dad in thesame house at the same time.
They don't know or care what'sgoing on in your head.
And the younger they are, theless they care.
They just know that they attachthemselves to you and their
(25:01):
safety depends on you.
And if addiction has taken thatsafety away and made you crazy
and erratic and irresponsible,they're hurt by that.
They are genuinely hurt by thatand traumatized.
And many times those people endup in offices like mine talking
to therapists like me.
And that's just a fact, right?
(25:22):
But when you are in recovery, itis important that you establish
safety around the relationshipwith your children.
And you've worked on theaddiction issue.
You've worked on yourself andnow you've worked on your
marriage.
They have something to actuallycling to.
So they're going to cling to it.
(25:42):
They're going to see that therelationship is solid and they
can trust it.
It may take them a while.
They may not believe you, butthey do really just want
stability and consistency.
Take the example of if you haveyoung children or you've had
young children in your life asyour children.
You know that if you are on anerratic schedule of feeding,
(26:05):
sleeping, nap time, andactivity, they are not going to
be doing very well.
They like consistent times fornaps.
They like consistent times formeals because that makes them
feel safe.
And they do very, very well.
And so...
If you've been actingerratically, passing out in
(26:28):
front of them, not responding,not going to school, not going
to school events, not caring forthem, not feeding them properly
or on a regular schedule, noclean clothes, things like that,
they don't do well.
in anything else.
They're not going to do well inschool.
They're not going to do wellwith their friends.
They're not going to be sleepingwell.
(26:48):
They're going to havenightmares.
They're going to have, you know,all this insecurity causes
instability.
So if you present to them all ofa sudden now stability in the
forms of consistency, they willfall into that pattern very
well, quickly, much more thanyour spouse would.
But there's damage that's hiddenand that comes out later.
(27:09):
So don't think you're going toget away with it Without doing
some work with them on them.
So the relationship that youchange with your children,
depending on their age, is oneof establishing a sense of
safety and consistency in theirlife.
If they are older and they'reteenagers and they've been
subjected to your crazinessthat's been escalating over
time, it's going to take youmuch more effort and maybe even
(27:32):
family counseling.
together with your spouse towork on those relationships and
have them be able to workthrough their anger and
resentment, the contempt thatthey feel because mom or dad or
both were inconsistent and crazyand it drove them crazy.
And you know what?
When you come out of that, it'llbe a much better life for them
(27:54):
and long-term, you will have abetter life with them.
So you must do those things tohelp And you've got to withstand
the relationship change withthese poor young children who
had no choice and got subjectedto stuff and are going to be
(28:14):
needing to hear the words, youknow, I'm sorry and please
forgive me for doing thesethings throughout their lives.
It might be something that comesback to you after 10 or 15 or 20
years, you know, comes back upagain.
But that's okay.
Right.
Because you're clean and soberand you did things that were
(28:35):
wrong or some jackassery thatwent on.
And, you know, you just workthrough it.
So the stages of recovery,drinking, self, marriage and
then kids.
Very wise words.
Very well put.
And I think I like the order.
I like the subject matter order.
(28:58):
order of that and I like thefocus on those areas in that
order.
I think it's a formula forsuccess.
So if you're really looking attrying to get into recovery, I
think that's it.
Drinking, self, marriage, thenkids.
Well, another one of theepisodes of Doc Shock, Your
Addiction Lifeguard.
I hope you've enjoyed thisepisode.
(29:18):
I know I have.
And I hope you learned somethingfrom it.
You know, the one thing that Ilike to always tell people is
it's not worth ending your lifetrying to save your addiction.
It's the other way around.
Get rid of the addiction.
Get your life back.
And if you need to do that, youcan reach out to me through my
website, WellspringMindBody.com.
(29:39):
And you can ask me questions ormake an appointment Talk to me.
If you're not going to do thator you're in another country,
you can reach out to me too.
But go to rehab.
Get a counselor.
Get some help.
Get into recovery.
Do it.
Meetings, groups, whatever.
So that's it for this episode ofDoc Shock.
(30:00):
You're Dixon Lifeguard.
I'm Jacques DeBruker saying seeya.
The Addiction Recovery Podcast.
(00:37):
It's just a podcast.
(01:07):
podcast it's for entertainmentand information only so let's
keep it in that light all righthave a good time learn something
and then get the real help thatyou need from a professional
(01:30):
somebody that i know that's beenworking very hard on his
recovery came up with somethingthat I think is just golden.
So I thought I'd steal it fromhim and tell you about it.
I'm going to call this thestages of recovery because even
though this is not the officialstages of recovery, but these
(01:52):
were his stages of recovery.
And I think it was justabsolutely brilliant.
So here we go.
You ready?
Stages of recovery.
He put it into four categories.
He put it into what you work onas you're working on recovery in
the order that you do it.
Now, these would apply to peoplewho are in a relationship and
(02:17):
have children.
So if you don't have that, maybeyou can modify what I'm about to
say to fit your specificsituation.
So here we go.
So he's got them in the order ofwhat you work on.
So this is the stages that youwork on in the category.
So drinking, then self, thenmarriage, and then kids.
(02:42):
So it's drinking, self,marriage, and kids.
And the reason that he put themin this order is because he was
struggling with trying to getthe work done on the stages
because he had them, he felt,out of order because he was
trying to work on um he wastrying to work on him on
(03:04):
drinking he got that part rightso you got to stop drinking and
he got that part so he he'd stopdrinking but then he was working
on uh sometimes he would work onhis kids and then other times
he'd work on his marriage butthen he would also then shift
over and start working onhimself and then self and then
(03:24):
kids and then marriage andforget about the other part so
he just kept like forgetting ornot engaging in in the parts and
he couldn't get it right sothat's how he came to the
conclusion that it was actuallydrinking self marriage and then
kids and so like we talk aboutum you know in in uh
(03:45):
relationships it's your yourmarriage is first then your kids
and then everything else If youare a Christian or a Jew, it's
God, then marriage, then kids,then everything else.
So the idea that your marriageis first, right?
(04:06):
So you're putting your kidsafter your marriage.
Now, seemingly that could be notthe way you're supposed to do
it.
However, if you think about it,your marriage is important, and
if your marriage is fracturedand destroyed...
Your kids are a mess, right?
So you can focus on your kidsall you want, but if you don't
have a good relationship withyour spouse, then you're going
to have some problems, right?
(04:27):
So many times people will get itin the wrong order, particularly
drinking.
I've had many, many clients whodo not put drinking or drug use
as their primary focus.
They start working on theirmarriage.
There are so many times whenI'll get a couple that comes in
(04:47):
And one of them is severelyaddicted to their drug of choice
or moderately addicted to theirdrug of choice.
And they come to me for marriagecounseling.
And it's interesting because thething that they've not been able
to do is extinguish theaddiction first.
(05:08):
And so then the spouse, it couldbe the husband or the wife, the
one who's not having anaddiction problem will drag the
other one who has an addictionproblem into counseling because
the marriage is not working.
And the addict can't understandwhy they're in counseling
(05:28):
because everything's fineaccording to them.
And the one that is the sober orclean one in the relationship is
just at wit's end because therelationship that's not working
because they have a mistress orwhat's the word you use for
somebody who is a female thathas a mister?
(05:51):
But you have somebody thatyou're having an extramarital
affair with.
And in this case, it's a drug.
UNKNOWN (06:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
And you can't compete against that.
And the one who has theaddiction problem can't
understand why the other ishaving so many issues in the
relationship.
And it's because they'refighting against this person,
not a person, this drug thatthey have who has taken the
place of their spouse.
(06:21):
And so they do not and will notengage in extinguishing the
addiction.
and then work on the marriage.
So you can't do anything in yourmarriage.
If the destructive force is theenemy of addiction that is
attacking your marriage, youmust go after the enemy first.
(06:41):
So they come in, they startworking with me and invariably
somebody starts to mention, Hey,you know, there's drugs or
alcohol going on.
I'm like, okay, well that's aproblem.
Um, And of course, the addict isin complete denial, saying
everything's fine.
It's not me.
It's you.
All the other nonsense that goeson.
(07:02):
I mean, and you know, becauseyou're probably either doing
that or been subjected to thatyourself.
And they deny anything.
And so you can't really getanywhere.
So the marriage counseling endsreally quickly in those
instances.
It usually lasts one or twosessions and the person walks
out.
And that's the end of thecounseling.
I give my card to them.
(07:22):
And say, look, you know, we'veidentified a real significant
problem in your relationship andit is drugs and alcohol.
So let's, let's fix that.
And so they agree, then theydisagree and everything else
that goes on.
And nobody wants anything to dowith anything because nobody
wants to tackle the 800 poundgorilla in the room, the enemy.
(07:43):
Addiction.
So the first thing that must gois tackling the addiction and
extinguishing it.
So then you can begin to work onthe relationship.
Now, in the example of theperson that was talking about
these wise words, it happened tobe alcohol.
So they started with drinking.
But if you wanted to, you know,if it's drugs, if it's cocaine
(08:04):
or heroin or whatever, okay,well, then that's the issue.
So it's really not necessarilydrinking alcohol.
But it's substance abuse, right?
And that's number one.
So get into residentialtreatment.
Start working on recovery.
Stop focusing on everything elseinstead.
You know, fixing a marriage,fixing a problem with a kid,
(08:26):
fixing, you know, the problemsthat you don't like your job or
whatever, your location.
You can't move away from yourproblems.
You just move away from yourlocation.
Because wherever you go, thereyou are.
And everybody has heard that amillion times.
So the first thing is to work onthe addiction.
Because that is an identifiable,significant problem.
(08:46):
And as an addict...
when you're looking at yourproblems and you're trying to
figure out how do I get better?
How do I get to a better place?
Have some insight, use your, useyour insight, what little you
may have left, but use that tosay, okay, I, I'm destroying
(09:07):
everything.
Maybe, maybe, you know, if youlisten, if you're going to a
counselor and that counselorunderstands addiction, listen to
your counselor and the counselorsays, Hey, I, This is a problem.
Surrender to that.
Stop fighting it.
I know you've probably heard it,so stop fighting it.
So once he began to work onthat, and it took him a while.
(09:31):
It took him the normal sixmonths, eight months, nine
months before he could reallystart to get a handle on his
addiction.
And he stopped with thebehaviors of addiction.
He then was struggling withself-marriage and kids.
His work was his work, and sothat was not an issue.
It didn't negatively impact hiswork.
(09:52):
He was able to still function,and I know some of you perhaps
have lost your job because ofyour substance abuse, and okay,
that's an issue.
But the working on self...
is what in his estimate was thevery next thing you do.
And I would completely agreewith that because I'm actually
(10:13):
the one that kind of led himdown this path and told him
these things.
He was just spitting it back tome.
But you work on self.
And that work on self is not thedrinking part, right?
Or the drugs.
Remember, that was the firstthing you tackled.
The second thing is self.
(10:35):
Meaning...
Your trauma, your history, thereasons that your relationships
fall apart.
Now, if you've addressed youraddiction and the stuff that you
did as an addict, you've alreadystarted to begin the work beyond
just extinguishing the badbehavior of the drug usage or
alcohol usage.
(10:55):
You've already addressed that.
But now it moves more towardslike, who am I and what have I
been acting like?
And in that case, you reallyneed to understand what it is
you've been doing and in yourrelationships.
So addressing those things,working on self.
(11:16):
Maybe your drug usage has madeyou very fragile.
You've lost your teeth.
You've got heart problems.
You've got liver problems.
You've got neuropathy.
You've got diabetes.
the wet brain, right?
And your brain, you can'tremember anything.
So you got to feed yourselfwell.
You got to exercise.
(11:36):
You got to learn how to sleepagain.
You need to shore up that partof it.
When you're offering yourself upto the world, either to friends
or family and you, you know, asbeing in a relationship,
physically and mentally healthypeople engage in relationships.
Those who are not mentally andphysically healthy cannot engage
(11:57):
in a relationship And if theydo, it's not in a healthy way
and they are not healthythemselves.
So you must engage in that kindof self-help.
And it seems...
when you're coming intorecovery, that that seemingly is
a selfish thing to do when infact it is not.
(12:20):
So you engage in those self-helpthings that are helping others
around you, right?
So you want to haverelationships, start working on
those things.
I can't tell you how many peoplethat I work with who do not
sleep well, they do not eatwell, and they never exercise
and they're miserable.
(12:41):
They're physically a wreck.
They are emotionally a wreck.
And the idea of becoming morephysical.
And listen, for me, I tell them,take a walk.
Start walking regularly.
Just go outside and startwalking.
Start with that.
Begin a process of...
(13:02):
active motion in your life.
You don't have to join a gym,get a personal trainer and start
working out like crazy.
You don't start with that.
You may go that route, but youdon't start with that.
But what I'm talking about isjust go out and start walking.
Go walk around the block.
Take your dog for a walk.
Take your spouse for a walk.
Take your kids for a walk.
But just get out and startmoving.
(13:23):
Movement is important.
Once you've done that for awhile, you can move on to some
structured exercise programwhere you're either increasing
your heart rate, you'rebreathing, you're sweating, and
it could be anything.
And it doesn't matter whatcondition you're in to start
with.
It doesn't matter what you'vedone to yourself with your
addiction.
And most people, especially ifit's alcohol, by the time I get
(13:44):
them, they have had significanthealth problems and they don't
feel good.
It just doesn't feel good.
Other drugs can affect you indifferent ways.
Cocaine, crystal meth, you'velost tons of weight.
You probably have a lot ofmuscle wasting.
If it's heroin, you're just veryapathetic and you don't really
(14:07):
want to do anything.
You're just so used to justnodding off and zoning out that
you're not motivated to do muchof anything.
But you can do things to improveyour health.
It's just how are you going todo it.
So I don't care what you'redoing.
I really don't.
It doesn't matter.
Get out and start walking.
Start playing golf, tennis.
(14:29):
Start playing, oh my gosh,what's the name of the sport
that everybody's, pickleball?
Do anything.
Archery, go hiking.
That's a solo thing.
It doesn't cost anything.
Just a pair of shoes.
Just go out and do something.
If you're so inclined to, Andyou do like I love going to
(14:51):
gyms.
I've been in gyms all my adultlife.
I work out all the time.
I enjoy that.
That's me.
But just be outside.
Be inside.
Start doing something whereyou're breathing heavy and
you're sweating.
Right.
Get your heart rate up.
That's working on self.
Start learning how to be social.
(15:12):
Many times people lose theirsocialization skills, especially
with addiction, because mostaddicts that I run into, they
are not social.
They tend to isolate and cutthemselves off from other people
because that's how they'reengaging in their drug of
choice.
So start your socialization.
And if it's going to meetings,go to church, join some civic
(15:34):
group, do something where you'reinteracting with other people so
you can re-engage in society andyou can start to learn how to
talk to people.
Come out of your shell.
Usually when people are inrecovery, they are embarrassed
and upset about what they'vedone.
And they start to hide.
And the shame and embarrassmentthings really takes things away
(15:56):
from you.
And so you've got to get back inand socialize with people.
And, again, I don't care whereit is.
It's just not with a bunch ofactively engaged drug addicts or
alcoholics.
That's not good.
But anything else, join someparticipation group, right?
So people who hike, you know, goto Meetup.
(16:16):
In this country, we have a thingcalled Meetup.
It's an online thing.
source for finding people whohave similar interests and they
go to movies or they go hikingor they go play frisbee golf or
disc golf sorry or fly fishingor whatever tennis or pickleball
or whatever they do they meet upfor those things they meet up at
(16:36):
museums so like on Thursday orFriday night we're going to meet
up and we're going to watch amovie and then we're going to
talk about it at a restaurantand we're going to have dinner
and talk about the moviesomething like that.
We have that in this country.
In other countries, I don't knowwhat you've got, but just engage
in socialization activitieswhere you can learn to
(16:57):
re-socialize and to work throughyour own self-stigmatizing
thoughts about your addiction.
So you got physical, you gotsocial, and then you've got
mental.
Listen, man, if you've gotdepression and it's catastrophic
depression to you or anxiety,and it's got you having panic
attacks, things like that, youneed to get into counseling to
(17:19):
address that.
Don't become a victim of yourown self-doing.
So engage in things that arehelping your emotional
well-being, not related tosocial, but emotional.
If you have tremendous mentalhealth issues that are crippling
you, And I'm not talking aboutschizophrenia or something
(17:42):
mentally ill.
No, but just mental well-being.
Get help.
Go to counseling.
Get a therapist.
Start working through thatstuff.
You can't do that by yourself,and you can't do it with your
spouse.
Get professional help.
It will put you in a place whereyou can recover.
So you've got physical, you'vegot social, and you've got
(18:06):
mental well-being.
it's the trifecta.
So when you get to that place,you're going to feel much
better.
Then you begin to work on if,and in this case, his example
was marriage.
But if you have a relationship,whether you're dating somebody
or you're living togetherbecause you're married, whatever
(18:29):
the situation is, but you have aromantic relationship.
And I know Gen Z doesn't have alot of romantic relationship
stuff going on in this countryand perhaps in other countries
but uh there's a significantlacking of that but if you're in
a relationship with somebodyespecially if you've been
dragging them through theaddiction you know dragging them
(18:51):
through your addiction you youwork on that and and you can't
do that if you haven't worked onyourself Right?
Because you're still a hot mess.
So you've got to work on selfbefore you can work on the
relationship.
But when you enter into workingon the relationship, what are
you actually working on?
What you're actually working onin your relationship is the
(19:15):
relationship.
It's not the other person.
And if you're listening to thisand you're the person who has
been subjected to the addict andyou don't have addiction
yourself or you're...
and you're codependent or you'renot, but you can't be pointing
your finger at the other personand expect that you're in
counseling together and you'reworking on your relationship
(19:38):
because you're working on theother person.
It doesn't work that way.
That's not what it is.
When you go into couplescounseling, the relationship is
the client, not the twoindividuals in it.
It's the relationship that's theclient.
So the two of you are nowworking with a therapist to help
(20:00):
the relationship.
That means that what you'redoing is you're pointing the
finger at yourself instead ofthe other person and saying, I'm
entering this relationship, I'mstaying in this relationship,
but I'm going to work on myself.
And these are the things that Ineed to work on.
It's so easy and we're soconditioned to look at your
(20:20):
spouse and say, You're a messand you need to fix this and
ignore your own stuff, right?
So you turn that finger thatyou're pointing at the other
person, both of you, and turn ittowards yourself and say, I'm
going to work on myself.
Because even if the relationshipdoesn't survive.
(20:42):
you still have to be a healthierperson, right?
And the next relationship youget into is going to be a big
hot mess as well if you don't dothat.
So make sure you're doing that.
So you're working on yourselfand that's how you work on your
marriage.
You work on self and then youwork with a counselor who helps
kind of reintroduce you to thespouse because addiction changes
(21:06):
you.
Recovery also changes you.
And so whether you are theperson who is the quote-unquote
subject of the addiction, you'rethe addict, or you're the person
that is watching the addictself-destruct, that sobriety
kicks in, getting clean, gettingsober.
Well, guess what?
You're dealing with a differentperson.
(21:27):
And so you need to work on youas the addict is in recovery.
My standard thing that I'vesaid, and I've said this in many
of these podcasts, is that whensomebody is In recovery, the
addict is six to eight, maybenine months ahead in recovery
from the person that waswatching the addiction happen.
(21:50):
So if I'm the addict and my wifeis not an addict, but she's been
watching me spiral intoaddiction, I'm now getting into
recovery.
Three months in, my wife is notbelieving anything I'm saying.
She's not trusting it and she'snot believing it.
Six months in, she's starting tosee a consistent change, but
(22:13):
she's going to still be lookingat me with an extremely critical
eye.
Nine months, she's starting toget it.
She's starting to let her guarddown a bit.
By the time 12 months rollsaround, and especially if I've
been going to NA or AA meetings,and I'm going to have a one-year
chip celebration, guess who'sstanding next to me?
(22:34):
My spouse.
She hasn't been in thosemeetings, but she is there at
that one-year chip celebrationwhile she watches me receive my
chip for being sober for a year.
And it's a big deal, right?
She now is going to beunderstanding that my change is
real.
And that's probably the firsttime that there's been a strong
(22:55):
indicator that this is anauthentic and genuine change.
So the marriage, therelationship work that you do,
After you've worked on yourselfis the foundation for the
change.
That is the change and theblossoming, if you will, of a
new relationship that isdifferent because now I have
(23:16):
significantly changed becauseI've been walking through fire
and now I am.
done with walking through fireand I am changed.
So my spouse has also beenchanged because there's been so
much tragedy that she's beenexposed to at the same time in
my recovery or in my addictionrather.
And now in my recovery, she'sseen something.
(23:36):
So she's going to change too.
And it doesn't matter if it's ahusband or wife.
I mean, that's just kind of whathappens if you're the addict and
you're the husband or you're theaddict and you're the wife.
There is change.
So now we go to the last part,which is if you have children,
that change that those childrenare seeing, if they are under
the age of 18, they have nochoice about where they are.
(23:58):
They're just there.
And they don't have any choiceabout what they're exposed to.
They are just there.
And so if they are experiencingnegative stuff, they have no
control over it.
They need foundational change inthe marriage.
They need a demonstration of ofa solid relationship before you
(24:20):
can start to bring them closerto you.
Now, children, interestingly,they are easily damaged and they
are very resilient at the sametime.
So while they are damaged, ifthey're subjected to the
experience of having an addictparent, of course, but remember,
(24:41):
well, I wouldn't say remember,I've said this before, so that's
maybe what I'm saying, remember,All they are concerned about is
they want mom and dad in thesame house at the same time.
They don't know or care what'sgoing on in your head.
And the younger they are, theless they care.
They just know that they attachthemselves to you and their
(25:01):
safety depends on you.
And if addiction has taken thatsafety away and made you crazy
and erratic and irresponsible,they're hurt by that.
They are genuinely hurt by thatand traumatized.
And many times those people endup in offices like mine talking
to therapists like me.
And that's just a fact, right?
(25:22):
But when you are in recovery, itis important that you establish
safety around the relationshipwith your children.
And you've worked on theaddiction issue.
You've worked on yourself andnow you've worked on your
marriage.
They have something to actuallycling to.
So they're going to cling to it.
(25:42):
They're going to see that therelationship is solid and they
can trust it.
It may take them a while.
They may not believe you, butthey do really just want
stability and consistency.
Take the example of if you haveyoung children or you've had
young children in your life asyour children.
You know that if you are on anerratic schedule of feeding,
(26:05):
sleeping, nap time, andactivity, they are not going to
be doing very well.
They like consistent times fornaps.
They like consistent times formeals because that makes them
feel safe.
And they do very, very well.
And so...
If you've been actingerratically, passing out in
(26:28):
front of them, not responding,not going to school, not going
to school events, not caring forthem, not feeding them properly
or on a regular schedule, noclean clothes, things like that,
they don't do well.
in anything else.
They're not going to do well inschool.
They're not going to do wellwith their friends.
They're not going to be sleepingwell.
(26:48):
They're going to havenightmares.
They're going to have, you know,all this insecurity causes
instability.
So if you present to them all ofa sudden now stability in the
forms of consistency, they willfall into that pattern very
well, quickly, much more thanyour spouse would.
But there's damage that's hiddenand that comes out later.
(27:09):
So don't think you're going toget away with it Without doing
some work with them on them.
So the relationship that youchange with your children,
depending on their age, is oneof establishing a sense of
safety and consistency in theirlife.
If they are older and they'reteenagers and they've been
subjected to your crazinessthat's been escalating over
time, it's going to take youmuch more effort and maybe even
(27:32):
family counseling.
together with your spouse towork on those relationships and
have them be able to workthrough their anger and
resentment, the contempt thatthey feel because mom or dad or
both were inconsistent and crazyand it drove them crazy.
And you know what?
When you come out of that, it'llbe a much better life for them
(27:54):
and long-term, you will have abetter life with them.
So you must do those things tohelp And you've got to withstand
the relationship change withthese poor young children who
had no choice and got subjectedto stuff and are going to be
(28:14):
needing to hear the words, youknow, I'm sorry and please
forgive me for doing thesethings throughout their lives.
It might be something that comesback to you after 10 or 15 or 20
years, you know, comes back upagain.
But that's okay.
Right.
Because you're clean and soberand you did things that were
(28:35):
wrong or some jackassery thatwent on.
And, you know, you just workthrough it.
So the stages of recovery,drinking, self, marriage and
then kids.
Very wise words.
Very well put.
And I think I like the order.
I like the subject matter order.
(28:58):
order of that and I like thefocus on those areas in that
order.
I think it's a formula forsuccess.
So if you're really looking attrying to get into recovery, I
think that's it.
Drinking, self, marriage, thenkids.
Well, another one of theepisodes of Doc Shock, Your
Addiction Lifeguard.
I hope you've enjoyed thisepisode.
(29:18):
I know I have.
And I hope you learned somethingfrom it.
You know, the one thing that Ilike to always tell people is
it's not worth ending your lifetrying to save your addiction.
It's the other way around.
Get rid of the addiction.
Get your life back.
And if you need to do that, youcan reach out to me through my
website, WellspringMindBody.com.
(29:39):
And you can ask me questions ormake an appointment Talk to me.
If you're not going to do thator you're in another country,
you can reach out to me too.
But go to rehab.
Get a counselor.
Get some help.
Get into recovery.
Do it.
Meetings, groups, whatever.
So that's it for this episode ofDoc Shock.
(30:00):
You're Dixon Lifeguard.
I'm Jacques DeBruker saying seeya.
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