October 3, 2025 • 26 mins
What are you supposed to do when tragedy strikes and you feel depressed or angry about a severe loss when you are in recovery?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I'm again for Dr.
Addiction Life Guard Moddown.
I'm Dr.
Doctor Burger Psychologist,Licensed Professional Health
Forum and Addiction Special.
You are suffering fromaddiction, injury, trauma,
whatever it is.
I'm here to help.
You're in search of help to tryto get your life back together.
Join me here at Dr.
(00:21):
Addiction Life Guard, theAddiction Recovery Podcast.
(00:46):
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
It's not.
(01:07):
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light,alright?
Have a good time, learnsomething, and then get the real
help that you need from aprofessional.
(01:27):
What do you do when you're inrecovery and life hits you with
a devastating loss?
Death, divorce, some type oftragedy.
What do you do?
Well, the urge to use many timesis what hits people when that
happens.
I've had a number of clientsover the last month who have had
(01:47):
severe tragedies occur to them,and I I can see them spinning
around in circles and reallystruggling.
And it's a it's a tough thingwhen people are going through
tough times.
And your old coping mechanism ofusage of chemicals kicks back
in.
So that that's a dangerous umthat's a dangerous thing to
(02:11):
encounter, frankly.
Um we you know, human beings canbe exposed to all kinds of
things.
It could be large amounts oftragedy or just maybe a single
one.
But um we're living our life andand things happen.
So the the loss plus the oldcoping mechanism as a reflex,
that puts you in a relapse riskcategory.
(02:33):
And that's that's why it'sreally dangerous for us if we're
in recovery.
So what do we what what are yousupposed to do?
Um you're going through yourlife, everything's fine, and
boom, something happens.
Sometimes it's out of the blue,you know, that's the way it is
with death a lot of times.
Um somebody dies unexpectedly.
(02:54):
Maybe there's a car accident ormaybe a suicide that you
weren't, you know, aware thatsomebody was really in a tough
spot, but it can happen.
So the the process that goes onis you get you know, it it's
it's essentially grief um thathappens.
You know, if you lose arelationship, divorce, that's
that's grieving.
If you lose somebody loses theirlife, that's grieving.
(03:17):
If um, you know, there's a lotof people losing jobs uh now,
and that's grieving.
So this grief can trigger thosefeelings of shock and anger,
numbness, despair.
Uh there's a helplessness to it,right?
And so a lot of times whenpeople are suffering these kinds
of losses, they're they're justthey don't know what to do.
(03:37):
There's a sometimes they shutdown, sometimes you don't.
But what the addict feels ispanic and run, you know, a lot
of it's run.
They want to get away from thatfeeling.
So in in terms of of what you'reexperiencing, it's a loss of
control, and it's a it's it's aterrible tragedy.
There's no question.
(03:58):
Um, you know, I've used thismetaphor many times in my
podcast about, you know, whatwhat is grief?
Grief is a feeling that's youdon't have control, so it's
being stuck in a rip current.
And if anybody's ever been inthe ocean and they've been in a
rip current, you you know you'ref you panic.
You're moving, usually you'removing either across the shore,
sometimes it's out uh andacross, and sometimes it's just
(04:20):
straight out.
And what everybody does whenthey get caught in a rip current
is they want to swim against thecurrent to get out of it, and
that's the exact wrong way to doit.
You know, if you're fighting arip current, the worst thing you
could do is start swimmingagainst the current, straight
into the the current that'spulling you out.
That's the wrong way to do it,because you're gonna end up
(04:42):
getting exhausted, and that'show people drowned uh when they
don't need to.
And so you you've got to figureout what what to do about this
grief, what to do about thistragedy.
And that's the thing thatusually is uh the thing that
hangs people up, is they reallydon't know what to do.
So they start doing the wrongthing.
So if you're using, that's thewrong thing.
(05:04):
You're going right back to theproblems of the past uh that you
encountered with your usage, andyou're in, you know, you've
relapsed.
So the way to get through a ripcurrent is to go across the
current.
So you're going diagonal, notperpendicular to it.
You're not trying to go straightinto it uh because you're gonna
get washed out and you'll drown.
(05:26):
So you go across the current,you go sideways, and you swim
and swim and swim until finallyyou're back at shore.
But you do it sideways.
That's how you get out of it.
And the two the two ways thatrip currents happen is they're
constant or it's in a narrowchannel within the beach.
(05:48):
And if it's in a narrow channel,as soon as you're going across
the rip current, you're gonnaswim out of the rip current and
you can go right back to shore.
If the entire water is movingand there is no channel, so to
speak, going straight straightout, you're eventually gonna get
there.
It's gonna take longer.
So the fight is a good fightwhen you're doing it the right
way.
Um so there's uh the experienceof the loss happens and you're
(06:15):
feeling it, and there areimmediate survival steps as as
addicts.
Um we we've got to do what iswhat is addiction's primary
methodology is to isolate.
Isolation is addiction's bestfriend, so don't isolate.
(06:36):
That's what addicts do.
We like to isolate.
We want to suffer in silence, wewant to suffer quietly by
ourselves, and and we just getenraged.
And it just becomes your yourbrain becomes your mind becomes
an echo chamber.
So don't isolate.
You gotta reach out to people.
The the the things that work foryou, you know, if it's been a
(06:56):
while since you've been tomeetings, maybe you got
disconnected from it, you don'treally know anybody in the
meetings anymore.
You don't have that circle ofthe recovery community within
meetings, A-A-N-A-S-A-O-A,whatever.
And and they're not, you know,you they're not there because
you haven't been in accessingthat for, you know, I know
people who have not gone tomeetings for 20, 30 years, so
(07:17):
they don't know anybody in themeeting community.
So, but reaching out to the thecommunity.
Maybe you need to go back tomeetings, go back into the
rooms.
Maybe you haven't used yet, butyou're just suffering this
grief.
So get back in the rooms and youcan stand up, you know, and and
say, I'm suffering because Isuffered this loss.
(07:38):
My my husband just died, my wifejust died, my child just died.
Um, I lost my job because mycareer, you know, got pulled out
from under me, or my houseburned out, whatever, whatever
it is.
Just you can stand up in thatroom.
You know this.
You can stand up in that roomand you can say it.
And if you've never been to ameeting, that's the opportunity
to go.
Get introduced to the nocrosstalk safe space where you
(08:02):
can feel felt amongst yourpeers, right?
Um, maybe it's time to go to atherapist.
If you have a therapist and youhaven't been to the therapist
for a while, it's time to goback.
This is what we're for.
Break glass in case ofemergency.
That's how I always approach itwith my clients.
You know, they I I tell myclients, listen, there's nothing
you can do that's going to getyou kicked out.
(08:23):
I don't care how bad you actbecause you know you're half
crazy or completely crazybecause you're an addict, and I
know that, and you know that.
So you can come back and alsokeep my number if you need me.
And, you know, if you have agood relationship with a
therapist and it hasn't been solong that they've retired or
moved and you know they'rethere, do you pick up the phone
(08:44):
and call the therapist?
Uh maybe a safe friend, somebodythat is somebody you know, a
friend, somebody that you cantrust, that you can say things
to, and you can just be in thatmoment and that grief and that
trauma that you're experiencingin the moment.
You can be with that person.
Somebody who's not gonna giveyou advice, okay?
That's what I mean by sayfriend.
Somebody who's just gonna bethere with you.
(09:05):
They're gonna talk about it,they're gonna listen, they're
gonna you're you're feeling feltwith a friend.
Somebody who's constantly givingyou advice is not what you need.
You do not need advice.
You just need somebody to bethere.
You need to feel human presence,somebody to bear witness with
your suffering.
Um, things that that can throwyou off if you are actually uh
(09:27):
doing things normally, whentrauma hits, when things,
tragedy hits, isolation requiresshutting down.
So you you you quit yourroutines.
People will come in and theywill regularly tell me, yeah, I
used I was working like threetimes working out three times a
week, or I was going to uh youknow, church regularly, like
(09:50):
every weekend I would go.
Every Sunday I go, or I'd go toconferences at my church.
Um, there's a men's group orwomen's group I would go to.
Um maybe it's not a churchgroup, maybe it's some other
type of meeting, and you justkind of withdraw.
Um you stop doing that, you stopexercising, you stop sleeping
very well, you you cut offpeople, you just kind of hide.
(10:12):
Now, I'm not saying that youcan't take time by yourself.
Of course you should, but whenyou're cutting off your routine,
that's a problem.
So the immediate survival stepof don't change your routine,
stick to them.
They're what's familiar for you,it's what's comfortable.
Avoid high-risk environments,you know.
Don't don't start hanging outwith people that because you
(10:34):
know you're feeling bad.
So you start hanging out withpeople that are gonna make you
feel better.
So the party people, that's bad.
Um, those high-riskenvironments, don't don't go
where there are substances,don't be tempted because you're
you're weak at that moment, likeyou, you're feeling this
weakness, right?
So don't go into those high-riskuh environments.
Give yourself permission tofeel.
(10:55):
This is one that really, man,people just don't do this.
They they just want to put itaside.
Like, I'm not gonna think aboutit.
The old uh like the turn turn ofthe 18th to the to the 20th
century Victorian era of things,of like, give yourself, you
know, we'll just keep a stip offstip stiff upper lip.
(11:18):
We're not going to engage in thethoughts of that, you know.
That's that's stuff my parentswould do.
Um, you gotta give yourself achance to feel your feelings.
I talk about this with myclients all the time.
Feel your feelings.
That's what we do as humanbeings.
When we do not feel ourfeelings, they're going to leak
(11:40):
out in other ways, and they'regonna come out and grab us when
we don't want them to.
So, you know, whatever you'refeeling, the the anger, the
confusion, the the tears, thesadness, the loneliness, the you
know, whatever comes up, that'spart of grief.
And so in in clinicalexperiences, that's what we call
um feeling your feelings.
(12:02):
That's processing.
That's what we then we when wesay processing, that's what we
mean.
I'm processing my feelings.
I'm feeling my feelings.
You gotta do that, and that'swhy it's important for you to be
in uh a community where peoplecan bear witness to your
suffering.
You're sharing it with them.
In other words, you're sharingthe load, and that's what we
must do.
We must share the load.
And people who are in recoveryand they see somebody suffering
(12:25):
who's in in recovery, but you wecan see them suffering.
We to we're we're happy to helpyou take that on, you know.
I I'm not gonna sit next tosomebody in a a meeting who's
really just kind of losing it,and I can see I can feel their
sadness or their they're upsetthere because they've been
traumatized.
That's when the wagons getcircled.
And the more wagons you have,the bigger the circle, the more
(12:48):
you're protected.
So as somebody in recovery,you're not gonna sit there and
watch somebody suffer and andnot respond to that.
So get in those, get in that uhthat environment where you can
feel your feelings.
The permission to do that isimportant.
So healthy coping skills.
How you know, what do we do toto create something?
(13:12):
Talk openly.
Therapy, grief groups, recoverycircles, you know, your church,
your pastor, um something,anything is better than just
nothing, right?
So but talk openly.
Get in a place where you can dothat.
If you're practicing faith andyou're a believer, prayer,
(13:36):
reading the scriptures,meditation, um spirituality,
faith, engage in that.
Okay?
It's comforting, it's guiding,and if you're a Christian, you
you understand that you're notalone.
And that's the that's the thing,right?
We're not alone.
Um there's a higher power that'sthat's there with us.
(13:58):
Listen, life happens and stuffhappens.
People can act out using theirfree will, they can cause
damage, they can kill people,they can hurt people.
We've we see it like all thetime now.
We're seeing it in this country,in the United States, we're
seeing it all the time.
Other parts of the world we'reseeing it.
Stuff happens.
Uh, last I think it was earlierthis week, some guy in England
(14:20):
drove into uh his vehicle tryinto a uh synagogue um and uh on
Yom Kippur, and he decided hewas going to try to kill some
people, and he did.
He ended up stabbing two people.
He tried to get into thesynagogue, but it was the doors
were barricaded shut.
I don't know why the guy didthat, but this is a part of
(14:41):
life.
Physical, physical violencehappens, emotional violence
happens, all kinds of thingshappen.
People can do that.
So lean on lean on your faith.
That's what I'm asking you todo.
Like go talk to your pastor, gotalk to to somebody of faith and
let their words kind of washover you.
Physical outlets.
You're you know, if your mind issuffering, your brain is
(15:03):
suffering, your spirit issuffering, physical fitness,
physical activity can reallyhelp.
Go run, go walk, go to the gym,lift weights.
You know, I I myself, I I knowthis sounds kind of
counterintuitive, but I likefighting.
And so I will um I will try tofind a way that I can just start
(15:23):
punching, you know, a heavy bag,go to a uh boxing gym, something
that that works for me.
Um, I have a friend who's verymuch into yoga, and she would
not find going and punching abag healthy or helpful to her,
but do engaging in yoga or doingbreath work.
That would be really helpful forher.
For me, that would drive mecrazy.
(15:44):
So I wouldn't do that.
Um, creative outlets, giveyourself give your mind
something else to do, right?
So be creative, write music, uhwrite um just doing writing,
art, you know.
If you if you are a person whois an artist, I was just putting
the broad category, that is partof an emotional processing that
(16:06):
you do.
And when, and and if those ofyou who are listening to this
and are artists, you understandwhat I'm talking about.
If you get cut off from that,your your inability to feel
starts cropping, cropping up,right?
Because you're not engaging inthe thing that is your
expressive outlet.
Um if if grief is happening,it's got to pass through without
(16:28):
defining you.
Let grief pass through withoutdefining you.
I am sadness versus I'm feelingsad.
I I am depression versus I amfeeling depressed.
So it when you're observed whenyou absorb things, it's you
become that problem, right?
(16:49):
So I I I I hear people all thetime, they describe, you know,
they say I'm depressed, and whatthey're actually saying to me is
I am depression.
It's the old um uh saying of youknow, you don't you you become
the emotion versus I'mexperiencing the emotion, and so
um don't become the emotion,just observe it, but don't
(17:14):
absorb it.
And so you're not becoming thething that you're feeling,
you're just feeling it.
So, well, how do you know howhow do you know when it's gotten
too too bad?
It's too far.
When do you get professionalhelp?
I'm a professional, and peoplecome to me as a clinician and
they seek help, they come in,and when they walk in the door,
(17:35):
especially if I haven't seenthem, I know that whatever in
the world is going on with them,whatever they're experiencing,
it has become a huge problem.
Like it's a mess.
That's why they're in my office.
I know that the people don'tcome and see me because they're
happy and everything's great andthey're stable.
They come to me because therehas been something really
(17:57):
incredibly wrong.
So the the thing is, like, howdo you how do you know when
that's happening?
So here are some indicators.
Okay, if you notice yourself notbeing able to function at work
or at home, so in clinicalterms, we would refer to the
ADLs, the activities of dailyliving.
(18:17):
Bathing, you know, shaving,bathing, eating, sleeping, um go
being able to go outside thehouse and do something, getting
out of bed.
If you're not able to do thosethings, you're not exp
experiencing the activities ofdaily living.
That's one thing.
You're not functioning at work,you're just going to work, but
you're not doing anything.
You're not getting anythingdone.
(18:39):
Maybe you're normally likehopefully, like everybody's, you
know, pretty clean in theirhouse, hopefully.
Um, and you're just not cleaningyour house.
You're just not even, it's it'sI don't even want to do it.
There's a sign of of problems,right?
Inability to function,depression.
When you're feeling depressed,and it and I mean depression,
like it's crushing depression,depression, and it's lasting
(19:01):
more than a couple of weeks.
That's that's that's when youneed some help.
You need to go seek professionalhelp.
Obsessive thoughts about using.
Oh man.
I the only answer is to get highor to drink and get drunk, and
you start obsessing on it, andyou're fighting to not do it.
It's just you're struggling andfighting to not do it.
(19:24):
But that's when you needprofessional help.
That's when you need to beseeing a counselor, a good
counselor who understandsaddiction and trauma.
So those obsessive thoughtsabout using um the using dreams,
the preoccupation, like you'rejust really struggling and
(19:45):
trying not to go to the liquorstore, the ABC store, or
something like that.
If you are feeling really,really strong feelings of
hopelessness and suicidalthoughts, you know, I this would
be better.
I I can't handle this anymore.
I'm just checked, I want tocheck out, I want to do I want
to kill myself.
(20:06):
Please get professional help.
Don't tell that to a friend andexpect that to help.
You're just putting that burdenupon your friend, but you're not
gonna get help from that.
Get professional help.
And when it's offered to you,when you go seek it, don't
reject it.
And that's what people dosometimes, they'll reject that
professional help.
(20:28):
Um therapy, grief counseling,psychiatry consultation,
inpatient treatment, intensiveoutpatient programming, partial
hospitalization programming,PHP, IOP, residential.
These are things that arehelpful to you.
They'll keep you alive.
You know, don't be so proud thatyou you won't go get help
(20:50):
because you think you know youcan just muscle through it when
you really are feeling thesethings that are really, really
severe.
They've got you uh shuttingdown.
So um calling 911, it's aphysical emergency, it's
survival, it's not weakness.
You know, nobody wants toexperience your death.
(21:14):
Um nobody wants to see yousuffering severely, and so
they're good, you know, peoplearound you will probably try to
spring into action.
Help them by getting helpyourself.
So if you're feeling uh, youknow, if you're a family member
and you're seeing somebody gothrough this, don't try to fix
(21:35):
it.
Just be present.
They're experiencing loss, youknow.
I people who have families, theytry to do the right thing,
they're always trying to do somefix it thing.
What should I do?
I gotta call, you know.
You don't need to do anything,you just need to be present for
your for your loved one who'sthere.
And if you're a friend ofsomebody who's an addict who's
(21:55):
going through this, same thing,man.
Just be present.
You don't need to fix anything.
The presence is something that'sthere.
The platitudes are not gonnahelp anything.
So you just encourage healthyroutines, you know, suggest
maybe they talk to a counselor.
There are there are no shortcutsto to the grief process, there's
(22:15):
no shortcuts to experiencingtrauma.
You're gonna experience it, it'sgonna feel bad.
And if you're watching somebodygo through it, there's just no
shortcut to it.
It's like just walk it off, getover it.
No, that's not happening.
But you if you're a loved oneand you're seeing somebody go
through this, look for theisolation, look for that
withdrawal.
Uh anger.
(22:36):
Anger many times comes poppingout.
Um, avoiding discussing it,avoiding anything to do with
that loss.
You just lost your spouse twoweeks ago, and you're just back
at work, like everything's fine.
I I immediately knoweverything's not fine.
It's not that's not fine.
So, avoidance of dealing withit, that's another one.
(22:58):
So, grief and uh from trauma andrecovery are both very long
journeys.
Grief and recovery, longjourneys.
Recovery, as you've heard me saymany times, recovery from
addiction is about a year and ahalf to two years.
Grief, yeah, it's gonna take awhile, it could take you months,
sometimes a year.
Um, that's normal.
(23:19):
But you can survive the tragedywithout the relapse because man,
if you relapse, now you got twoproblems you're dealing with,
and that's not helpful.
So hold on to that hope and thatfaith and that connection and
engage in that.
Let people help shoulder yourburden.
Don't just white knuckle it.
You're not alone, you don't needto be alone.
(23:41):
Isolation needs to not be partof your life.
You know this if you have gotteninto recovery, you know that
when you're isolating, that's aproblem.
Leave me alone.
I don't want to talk.
I just want to go home.
I just want to be left alone.
You know, as a recovered addict,that is a problem.
(24:01):
If you if you're new torecovery, you probably maybe
don't know that.
Maybe nobody's ever told youthat.
And hopefully, if I'm giving themessage of like, well, what
contributes to addiction?
Isolation.
That's the first word that comesout of my mouth, isolation.
That's what contributes to it.
Your addiction is fueled byisolation, that's where it can
run wild.
(24:22):
So reach out, get some help, andand find ways to feel your
feelings.
Allow yourself to feel yourfeelings.
There's no shame in it, and it'sactually very healthy.
You know, I just can't helpmyself.
I know that I'm being watchedover.
I've been watched over all myadult life, even though I didn't
want to admit it, and I knowGod's got a place in my life.
(24:44):
He's just working like crazy,trying to keep this pagan sinner
alive and healthy.
That's kind of how I felt when Iwas younger.
Um, but you know what?
That's part of the plan.
And your suffering has not goneunnoticed, and it can be
supported if you just lay it athis feet.
And just let people lift you up,okay?
(25:05):
You don't need to suffer insilence.
Well, I hope you got somethingfrom this podcast.
Listen, if you need help, go getit.
Wherever you are, whatevercountry you're in, there is some
form of help, and so go get it.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, some of your loved
one is suffering from addictionaround you.
Don't get help.
Go to a rehab, go to acounselor, go to a meeting, be
(25:30):
part of the recovery community.
Don't try to stay in youraddiction or ending your life if
you're stuck, but eating.
Go out and actually get freetomorrow.
And if you are suffering, youcan also reach out to me.
I'll help you.
You can reach me at my website,bossfindmindbody.com.
Send me an email, give me acall, I'll make you.
(25:51):
Oh, until then, this is darkchart saying see ya.
I'm again for Dr.
Addiction Life Guard Moddown.
I'm Dr.
Doctor Burger Psychologist,Licensed Professional Health
Forum and Addiction Special.
You are suffering fromaddiction, injury, trauma,
whatever it is.
I'm here to help.
You're in search of help to tryto get your life back together.
Join me here at Dr.
(00:21):
Addiction Life Guard, theAddiction Recovery Podcast.
(00:46):
If you actually need real helpand you're in need of help,
please seek that out.
If you're in dire need of help,you can go to your nearest
emergency room or you can checkinto a rehab center or call a
counselor like me and talk aboutyour problems and work through
them.
But don't rely on a podcast tobe that form of help.
It's not.
(01:07):
It's just a podcast.
It's for entertainment andinformation only.
So let's keep it in that light,alright?
Have a good time, learnsomething, and then get the real
help that you need from aprofessional.
(01:27):
What do you do when you're inrecovery and life hits you with
a devastating loss?
Death, divorce, some type oftragedy.
What do you do?
Well, the urge to use many timesis what hits people when that
happens.
I've had a number of clientsover the last month who have had
(01:47):
severe tragedies occur to them,and I I can see them spinning
around in circles and reallystruggling.
And it's a it's a tough thingwhen people are going through
tough times.
And your old coping mechanism ofusage of chemicals kicks back
in.
So that that's a dangerous umthat's a dangerous thing to
(02:11):
encounter, frankly.
Um we you know, human beings canbe exposed to all kinds of
things.
It could be large amounts oftragedy or just maybe a single
one.
But um we're living our life andand things happen.
So the the loss plus the oldcoping mechanism as a reflex,
that puts you in a relapse riskcategory.
(02:33):
And that's that's why it'sreally dangerous for us if we're
in recovery.
So what do we what what are yousupposed to do?
Um you're going through yourlife, everything's fine, and
boom, something happens.
Sometimes it's out of the blue,you know, that's the way it is
with death a lot of times.
Um somebody dies unexpectedly.
(02:54):
Maybe there's a car accident ormaybe a suicide that you
weren't, you know, aware thatsomebody was really in a tough
spot, but it can happen.
So the the process that goes onis you get you know, it it's
it's essentially grief um thathappens.
You know, if you lose arelationship, divorce, that's
that's grieving.
If you lose somebody loses theirlife, that's grieving.
(03:17):
If um, you know, there's a lotof people losing jobs uh now,
and that's grieving.
So this grief can trigger thosefeelings of shock and anger,
numbness, despair.
Uh there's a helplessness to it,right?
And so a lot of times whenpeople are suffering these kinds
of losses, they're they're justthey don't know what to do.
(03:37):
There's a sometimes they shutdown, sometimes you don't.
But what the addict feels ispanic and run, you know, a lot
of it's run.
They want to get away from thatfeeling.
So in in terms of of what you'reexperiencing, it's a loss of
control, and it's a it's it's aterrible tragedy.
There's no question.
(03:58):
Um, you know, I've used thismetaphor many times in my
podcast about, you know, whatwhat is grief?
Grief is a feeling that's youdon't have control, so it's
being stuck in a rip current.
And if anybody's ever been inthe ocean and they've been in a
rip current, you you know you'ref you panic.
You're moving, usually you'removing either across the shore,
sometimes it's out uh andacross, and sometimes it's just
(04:20):
straight out.
And what everybody does whenthey get caught in a rip current
is they want to swim against thecurrent to get out of it, and
that's the exact wrong way to doit.
You know, if you're fighting arip current, the worst thing you
could do is start swimmingagainst the current, straight
into the the current that'spulling you out.
That's the wrong way to do it,because you're gonna end up
(04:42):
getting exhausted, and that'show people drowned uh when they
don't need to.
And so you you've got to figureout what what to do about this
grief, what to do about thistragedy.
And that's the thing thatusually is uh the thing that
hangs people up, is they reallydon't know what to do.
So they start doing the wrongthing.
So if you're using, that's thewrong thing.
(05:04):
You're going right back to theproblems of the past uh that you
encountered with your usage, andyou're in, you know, you've
relapsed.
So the way to get through a ripcurrent is to go across the
current.
So you're going diagonal, notperpendicular to it.
You're not trying to go straightinto it uh because you're gonna
get washed out and you'll drown.
(05:26):
So you go across the current,you go sideways, and you swim
and swim and swim until finallyyou're back at shore.
But you do it sideways.
That's how you get out of it.
And the two the two ways thatrip currents happen is they're
constant or it's in a narrowchannel within the beach.
(05:48):
And if it's in a narrow channel,as soon as you're going across
the rip current, you're gonnaswim out of the rip current and
you can go right back to shore.
If the entire water is movingand there is no channel, so to
speak, going straight straightout, you're eventually gonna get
there.
It's gonna take longer.
So the fight is a good fightwhen you're doing it the right
way.
Um so there's uh the experienceof the loss happens and you're
(06:15):
feeling it, and there areimmediate survival steps as as
addicts.
Um we we've got to do what iswhat is addiction's primary
methodology is to isolate.
Isolation is addiction's bestfriend, so don't isolate.
(06:36):
That's what addicts do.
We like to isolate.
We want to suffer in silence, wewant to suffer quietly by
ourselves, and and we just getenraged.
And it just becomes your yourbrain becomes your mind becomes
an echo chamber.
So don't isolate.
You gotta reach out to people.
The the the things that work foryou, you know, if it's been a
(06:56):
while since you've been tomeetings, maybe you got
disconnected from it, you don'treally know anybody in the
meetings anymore.
You don't have that circle ofthe recovery community within
meetings, A-A-N-A-S-A-O-A,whatever.
And and they're not, you know,you they're not there because
you haven't been in accessingthat for, you know, I know
people who have not gone tomeetings for 20, 30 years, so
(07:17):
they don't know anybody in themeeting community.
So, but reaching out to the thecommunity.
Maybe you need to go back tomeetings, go back into the
rooms.
Maybe you haven't used yet, butyou're just suffering this
grief.
So get back in the rooms and youcan stand up, you know, and and
say, I'm suffering because Isuffered this loss.
(07:38):
My my husband just died, my wifejust died, my child just died.
Um, I lost my job because mycareer, you know, got pulled out
from under me, or my houseburned out, whatever, whatever
it is.
Just you can stand up in thatroom.
You know this.
You can stand up in that roomand you can say it.
And if you've never been to ameeting, that's the opportunity
to go.
Get introduced to the nocrosstalk safe space where you
(08:02):
can feel felt amongst yourpeers, right?
Um, maybe it's time to go to atherapist.
If you have a therapist and youhaven't been to the therapist
for a while, it's time to goback.
This is what we're for.
Break glass in case ofemergency.
That's how I always approach itwith my clients.
You know, they I I tell myclients, listen, there's nothing
you can do that's going to getyou kicked out.
(08:23):
I don't care how bad you actbecause you know you're half
crazy or completely crazybecause you're an addict, and I
know that, and you know that.
So you can come back and alsokeep my number if you need me.
And, you know, if you have agood relationship with a
therapist and it hasn't been solong that they've retired or
moved and you know they'rethere, do you pick up the phone
(08:44):
and call the therapist?
Uh maybe a safe friend, somebodythat is somebody you know, a
friend, somebody that you cantrust, that you can say things
to, and you can just be in thatmoment and that grief and that
trauma that you're experiencingin the moment.
You can be with that person.
Somebody who's not gonna giveyou advice, okay?
That's what I mean by sayfriend.
Somebody who's just gonna bethere with you.
(09:05):
They're gonna talk about it,they're gonna listen, they're
gonna you're you're feeling feltwith a friend.
Somebody who's constantly givingyou advice is not what you need.
You do not need advice.
You just need somebody to bethere.
You need to feel human presence,somebody to bear witness with
your suffering.
Um, things that that can throwyou off if you are actually uh
(09:27):
doing things normally, whentrauma hits, when things,
tragedy hits, isolation requiresshutting down.
So you you you quit yourroutines.
People will come in and theywill regularly tell me, yeah, I
used I was working like threetimes working out three times a
week, or I was going to uh youknow, church regularly, like
(09:50):
every weekend I would go.
Every Sunday I go, or I'd go toconferences at my church.
Um, there's a men's group orwomen's group I would go to.
Um maybe it's not a churchgroup, maybe it's some other
type of meeting, and you justkind of withdraw.
Um you stop doing that, you stopexercising, you stop sleeping
very well, you you cut offpeople, you just kind of hide.
(10:12):
Now, I'm not saying that youcan't take time by yourself.
Of course you should, but whenyou're cutting off your routine,
that's a problem.
So the immediate survival stepof don't change your routine,
stick to them.
They're what's familiar for you,it's what's comfortable.
Avoid high-risk environments,you know.
Don't don't start hanging outwith people that because you
(10:34):
know you're feeling bad.
So you start hanging out withpeople that are gonna make you
feel better.
So the party people, that's bad.
Um, those high-riskenvironments, don't don't go
where there are substances,don't be tempted because you're
you're weak at that moment, likeyou, you're feeling this
weakness, right?
So don't go into those high-riskuh environments.
Give yourself permission tofeel.
(10:55):
This is one that really, man,people just don't do this.
They they just want to put itaside.
Like, I'm not gonna think aboutit.
The old uh like the turn turn ofthe 18th to the to the 20th
century Victorian era of things,of like, give yourself, you
know, we'll just keep a stip offstip stiff upper lip.
(11:18):
We're not going to engage in thethoughts of that, you know.
That's that's stuff my parentswould do.
Um, you gotta give yourself achance to feel your feelings.
I talk about this with myclients all the time.
Feel your feelings.
That's what we do as humanbeings.
When we do not feel ourfeelings, they're going to leak
(11:40):
out in other ways, and they'regonna come out and grab us when
we don't want them to.
So, you know, whatever you'refeeling, the the anger, the
confusion, the the tears, thesadness, the loneliness, the you
know, whatever comes up, that'spart of grief.
And so in in clinicalexperiences, that's what we call
um feeling your feelings.
(12:02):
That's processing.
That's what we then we when wesay processing, that's what we
mean.
I'm processing my feelings.
I'm feeling my feelings.
You gotta do that, and that'swhy it's important for you to be
in uh a community where peoplecan bear witness to your
suffering.
You're sharing it with them.
In other words, you're sharingthe load, and that's what we
must do.
We must share the load.
And people who are in recoveryand they see somebody suffering
(12:25):
who's in in recovery, but you wecan see them suffering.
We to we're we're happy to helpyou take that on, you know.
I I'm not gonna sit next tosomebody in a a meeting who's
really just kind of losing it,and I can see I can feel their
sadness or their they're upsetthere because they've been
traumatized.
That's when the wagons getcircled.
And the more wagons you have,the bigger the circle, the more
(12:48):
you're protected.
So as somebody in recovery,you're not gonna sit there and
watch somebody suffer and andnot respond to that.
So get in those, get in that uhthat environment where you can
feel your feelings.
The permission to do that isimportant.
So healthy coping skills.
How you know, what do we do toto create something?
(13:12):
Talk openly.
Therapy, grief groups, recoverycircles, you know, your church,
your pastor, um something,anything is better than just
nothing, right?
So but talk openly.
Get in a place where you can dothat.
If you're practicing faith andyou're a believer, prayer,
(13:36):
reading the scriptures,meditation, um spirituality,
faith, engage in that.
Okay?
It's comforting, it's guiding,and if you're a Christian, you
you understand that you're notalone.
And that's the that's the thing,right?
We're not alone.
Um there's a higher power that'sthat's there with us.
(13:58):
Listen, life happens and stuffhappens.
People can act out using theirfree will, they can cause
damage, they can kill people,they can hurt people.
We've we see it like all thetime now.
We're seeing it in this country,in the United States, we're
seeing it all the time.
Other parts of the world we'reseeing it.
Stuff happens.
Uh, last I think it was earlierthis week, some guy in England
(14:20):
drove into uh his vehicle tryinto a uh synagogue um and uh on
Yom Kippur, and he decided hewas going to try to kill some
people, and he did.
He ended up stabbing two people.
He tried to get into thesynagogue, but it was the doors
were barricaded shut.
I don't know why the guy didthat, but this is a part of
(14:41):
life.
Physical, physical violencehappens, emotional violence
happens, all kinds of thingshappen.
People can do that.
So lean on lean on your faith.
That's what I'm asking you todo.
Like go talk to your pastor, gotalk to to somebody of faith and
let their words kind of washover you.
Physical outlets.
You're you know, if your mind issuffering, your brain is
(15:03):
suffering, your spirit issuffering, physical fitness,
physical activity can reallyhelp.
Go run, go walk, go to the gym,lift weights.
You know, I I myself, I I knowthis sounds kind of
counterintuitive, but I likefighting.
And so I will um I will try tofind a way that I can just start
(15:23):
punching, you know, a heavy bag,go to a uh boxing gym, something
that that works for me.
Um, I have a friend who's verymuch into yoga, and she would
not find going and punching abag healthy or helpful to her,
but do engaging in yoga or doingbreath work.
That would be really helpful forher.
For me, that would drive mecrazy.
(15:44):
So I wouldn't do that.
Um, creative outlets, giveyourself give your mind
something else to do, right?
So be creative, write music, uhwrite um just doing writing,
art, you know.
If you if you are a person whois an artist, I was just putting
the broad category, that is partof an emotional processing that
(16:06):
you do.
And when, and and if those ofyou who are listening to this
and are artists, you understandwhat I'm talking about.
If you get cut off from that,your your inability to feel
starts cropping, cropping up,right?
Because you're not engaging inthe thing that is your
expressive outlet.
Um if if grief is happening,it's got to pass through without
(16:28):
defining you.
Let grief pass through withoutdefining you.
I am sadness versus I'm feelingsad.
I I am depression versus I amfeeling depressed.
So it when you're observed whenyou absorb things, it's you
become that problem, right?
(16:49):
So I I I I hear people all thetime, they describe, you know,
they say I'm depressed, and whatthey're actually saying to me is
I am depression.
It's the old um uh saying of youknow, you don't you you become
the emotion versus I'mexperiencing the emotion, and so
um don't become the emotion,just observe it, but don't
(17:14):
absorb it.
And so you're not becoming thething that you're feeling,
you're just feeling it.
So, well, how do you know howhow do you know when it's gotten
too too bad?
It's too far.
When do you get professionalhelp?
I'm a professional, and peoplecome to me as a clinician and
they seek help, they come in,and when they walk in the door,
(17:35):
especially if I haven't seenthem, I know that whatever in
the world is going on with them,whatever they're experiencing,
it has become a huge problem.
Like it's a mess.
That's why they're in my office.
I know that the people don'tcome and see me because they're
happy and everything's great andthey're stable.
They come to me because therehas been something really
(17:57):
incredibly wrong.
So the the thing is, like, howdo you how do you know when
that's happening?
So here are some indicators.
Okay, if you notice yourself notbeing able to function at work
or at home, so in clinicalterms, we would refer to the
ADLs, the activities of dailyliving.
(18:17):
Bathing, you know, shaving,bathing, eating, sleeping, um go
being able to go outside thehouse and do something, getting
out of bed.
If you're not able to do thosethings, you're not exp
experiencing the activities ofdaily living.
That's one thing.
You're not functioning at work,you're just going to work, but
you're not doing anything.
You're not getting anythingdone.
(18:39):
Maybe you're normally likehopefully, like everybody's, you
know, pretty clean in theirhouse, hopefully.
Um, and you're just not cleaningyour house.
You're just not even, it's it'sI don't even want to do it.
There's a sign of of problems,right?
Inability to function,depression.
When you're feeling depressed,and it and I mean depression,
like it's crushing depression,depression, and it's lasting
(19:01):
more than a couple of weeks.
That's that's that's when youneed some help.
You need to go seek professionalhelp.
Obsessive thoughts about using.
Oh man.
I the only answer is to get highor to drink and get drunk, and
you start obsessing on it, andyou're fighting to not do it.
It's just you're struggling andfighting to not do it.
(19:24):
But that's when you needprofessional help.
That's when you need to beseeing a counselor, a good
counselor who understandsaddiction and trauma.
So those obsessive thoughtsabout using um the using dreams,
the preoccupation, like you'rejust really struggling and
(19:45):
trying not to go to the liquorstore, the ABC store, or
something like that.
If you are feeling really,really strong feelings of
hopelessness and suicidalthoughts, you know, I this would
be better.
I I can't handle this anymore.
I'm just checked, I want tocheck out, I want to do I want
to kill myself.
(20:06):
Please get professional help.
Don't tell that to a friend andexpect that to help.
You're just putting that burdenupon your friend, but you're not
gonna get help from that.
Get professional help.
And when it's offered to you,when you go seek it, don't
reject it.
And that's what people dosometimes, they'll reject that
professional help.
(20:28):
Um therapy, grief counseling,psychiatry consultation,
inpatient treatment, intensiveoutpatient programming, partial
hospitalization programming,PHP, IOP, residential.
These are things that arehelpful to you.
They'll keep you alive.
You know, don't be so proud thatyou you won't go get help
(20:50):
because you think you know youcan just muscle through it when
you really are feeling thesethings that are really, really
severe.
They've got you uh shuttingdown.
So um calling 911, it's aphysical emergency, it's
survival, it's not weakness.
You know, nobody wants toexperience your death.
(21:14):
Um nobody wants to see yousuffering severely, and so
they're good, you know, peoplearound you will probably try to
spring into action.
Help them by getting helpyourself.
So if you're feeling uh, youknow, if you're a family member
and you're seeing somebody gothrough this, don't try to fix
(21:35):
it.
Just be present.
They're experiencing loss, youknow.
I people who have families, theytry to do the right thing,
they're always trying to do somefix it thing.
What should I do?
I gotta call, you know.
You don't need to do anything,you just need to be present for
your for your loved one who'sthere.
And if you're a friend ofsomebody who's an addict who's
(21:55):
going through this, same thing,man.
Just be present.
You don't need to fix anything.
The presence is something that'sthere.
The platitudes are not gonnahelp anything.
So you just encourage healthyroutines, you know, suggest
maybe they talk to a counselor.
There are there are no shortcutsto to the grief process, there's
(22:15):
no shortcuts to experiencingtrauma.
You're gonna experience it, it'sgonna feel bad.
And if you're watching somebodygo through it, there's just no
shortcut to it.
It's like just walk it off, getover it.
No, that's not happening.
But you if you're a loved oneand you're seeing somebody go
through this, look for theisolation, look for that
withdrawal.
Uh anger.
(22:36):
Anger many times comes poppingout.
Um, avoiding discussing it,avoiding anything to do with
that loss.
You just lost your spouse twoweeks ago, and you're just back
at work, like everything's fine.
I I immediately knoweverything's not fine.
It's not that's not fine.
So, avoidance of dealing withit, that's another one.
(22:58):
So, grief and uh from trauma andrecovery are both very long
journeys.
Grief and recovery, longjourneys.
Recovery, as you've heard me saymany times, recovery from
addiction is about a year and ahalf to two years.
Grief, yeah, it's gonna take awhile, it could take you months,
sometimes a year.
Um, that's normal.
(23:19):
But you can survive the tragedywithout the relapse because man,
if you relapse, now you got twoproblems you're dealing with,
and that's not helpful.
So hold on to that hope and thatfaith and that connection and
engage in that.
Let people help shoulder yourburden.
Don't just white knuckle it.
You're not alone, you don't needto be alone.
(23:41):
Isolation needs to not be partof your life.
You know this if you have gotteninto recovery, you know that
when you're isolating, that's aproblem.
Leave me alone.
I don't want to talk.
I just want to go home.
I just want to be left alone.
You know, as a recovered addict,that is a problem.
(24:01):
If you if you're new torecovery, you probably maybe
don't know that.
Maybe nobody's ever told youthat.
And hopefully, if I'm giving themessage of like, well, what
contributes to addiction?
Isolation.
That's the first word that comesout of my mouth, isolation.
That's what contributes to it.
Your addiction is fueled byisolation, that's where it can
run wild.
(24:22):
So reach out, get some help, andand find ways to feel your
feelings.
Allow yourself to feel yourfeelings.
There's no shame in it, and it'sactually very healthy.
You know, I just can't helpmyself.
I know that I'm being watchedover.
I've been watched over all myadult life, even though I didn't
want to admit it, and I knowGod's got a place in my life.
(24:44):
He's just working like crazy,trying to keep this pagan sinner
alive and healthy.
That's kind of how I felt when Iwas younger.
Um, but you know what?
That's part of the plan.
And your suffering has not goneunnoticed, and it can be
supported if you just lay it athis feet.
And just let people lift you up,okay?
(25:05):
You don't need to suffer insilence.
Well, I hope you got somethingfrom this podcast.
Listen, if you need help, go getit.
Wherever you are, whatevercountry you're in, there is some
form of help, and so go get it.
If you are suffering fromaddiction, some of your loved
one is suffering from addictionaround you.
Don't get help.
Go to a rehab, go to acounselor, go to a meeting, be
(25:30):
part of the recovery community.
Don't try to stay in youraddiction or ending your life if
you're stuck, but eating.
Go out and actually get freetomorrow.
And if you are suffering, youcan also reach out to me.
I'll help you.
You can reach me at my website,bossfindmindbody.com.
Send me an email, give me acall, I'll make you.
(25:51):
Oh, until then, this is darkchart saying see ya.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.