September 23, 2025 • 21 mins
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In this episode, we answer a question from our listener who is considering a locums position but is having mom guilt and wants to know how other women do it. Dr. Renée opens up about her journey working exclusively as a locums doctor while still maximizing her presence at home. If you're struggling with parental guilt this conversation is for you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you missed the last segment, Nii and I talked
about whether or not the 80-hourwork week is realistic for
people in residency who are thentransitioning into
attendinghood.
If you missed that segment, goback and take a listen.
And right now we are going tobe talking about motherhood and
locums.
Dr Nii, what say you?
(00:20):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
you.
What's going on?
All right, dr Renee.
So we got a question fromInstagram.
This is a question from someonewho's been following our
podcast for a significant periodof time, so let's jump right
into this.
It says, hey, do both you andyour wife do locums, because I'm
considering a travel positionslash locum, but I'm having mom
guilt and I'm not sure how otherwomen do it.
I've read articles and I knowthere's plenty of moms who do it
(00:51):
, but just wondering if you haveany feedback, would appreciate
hearing about your experience.
I know I've heard a lot fromyour perspective, but wondering
about it from mom's perspective,how she may do it I think
they're referring to you.
So, we got this question whilewe're in Ghana.
I told them we were going toanswer it, but we ain't
recording Ghana, so we ain'tanswer it.
(01:14):
You like to hear it?
Here we go, boom, so you goahead and answer it?
Do we do locums?
How do you do locums as a momand do you have?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
mommy guilt?
No, I do not have mommy guilt.
So I've been doing locums forquite some time, exclusively
locums, as of the time what?
That was 2016.
So I was pregnant at the timewhen we started doing locums
exclusively.
And, yeah, I mean, I guess Iwould need a little bit more
(01:49):
information so that I could giveyou a little more advice
tailored to whatever yoursituation is.
For me, I am a mom, but I'm alsomarried, so I, you know, there
there is that dynamic which Ithink makes a difference.
So, doing locums, I'm able tostay home for the most part, and
then I work one weekend a month.
(02:10):
That's just how I decide to doit.
You can do it however you want.
And then my husband he worksmore days than I do in the month
, but that's the way that we doit.
We switch off, so if I'mworking, he's not working.
If he's working, then I'm notworking, and that's the way it's
worked and I really love it.
It allows me to spend a lot oftime with my kids.
(02:31):
Yes, I am traveling, so it isnot a local locums assignment.
I've been traveling for since2016 and haven't stopped since,
and it's been really helpful.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
What's the farthest that you've traveled?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The farthest I've traveled is probably about three
hours, three, four hours.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Currently, currently right now.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Now it's like an hour and a half.
Yeah, now it's like an hour anda half, so it's not bad, but I
stay over.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So what does that mean?
Explain that to the people.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So that basically means that I start my shift on
Friday evenings at five o'clockand I finish my shift on Monday
mornings at seven 30.
So I am not home.
So I might as well be, you know, a plane ride away, right Cause
I'm not home, right so you gota hotel, you got all that stuff,
(03:25):
gotcha.
You know, you and your workhusband X, y and Z.
I told you don't make me pullup on you.
Okay, don't make me pull up onyou.
I know you got a work wife.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
My work wife got hands, so you're going to pull
up.
Go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Any who needs.
Don't worry, because my workhusband got mad muscle.
Yeah, look at your face.
Look at your face now.
You don't like that joke, right?
It's not as funny, it's not?
What is it?
Ain't no fun when the rabbitgot the gun Anywho, but you can
(04:06):
do it, however.
You can do it, however you cando it however you want.
I think what I like about thelocums life the most is that
there is that flexibility.
Right, I think I actually have.
So I will say this I neverworked a nine to five, or what
we call a full time.
How about this?
(04:26):
How about the job?
Hold on, hold on.
I got to say this.
I got to say this.
I got to say this.
I got something to say.
I've never worked a full timejob while I was a mother.
I do have to say that I thinkthat the amount of guilt mommy
(04:55):
guilt that I would have had as afull time OB would have been
much much greater than what I'mdoing now as a locums.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Because her question is about mommy guilt.
Hold on a second.
Let me speak up.
Yeah, so the mommy guilt thatyou have.
You said that you would havemore mommy guilt if you were
working full time and not alaborer, right?
Yeah, okay, why Explain that?
What kind of things would yoube thinking about?
Let me get it out.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What kind of things would you be processing in your
mind during that time?
No-transcript even got up inthe morning and back home after
(05:38):
my kids fell asleep, and I don'tlike that because for me that's
, I might as well be awaybecause I'm not seeing them
anyway.
Right, I just know that theyare there and in the same house
with me at some point in time, afew hours, a few hours a day.
But I don't like the idea ofyou know consistently waking up
(05:59):
before my kids, not seeing themoff to school, you know, and
then coming home and potentiallythem being asleep already.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I just I don't like that.
I think the one thing toconsider also is like I didn't
have any plans of slowing downat all at that point also.
So there's a strong likelihoodthat you have that happening
twice, where you have kids whoare very like, the likelihood of
them seeing both of theirparents in the morning or seeing
them in the evening time.
You know it's going to bevaried right, the consistency
(06:33):
probably won't be there andstuff.
So there was a high chance alsothat we may have to incorporate
someone in like a babysitter ornanny.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
So for me, I just felt like I didn't want a nanny.
You know, there's nothing wrongwith having a nanny, but I
didn't want a nanny in that, notfor that, right, if I was going
to have somebody help me withmy kids, that's fine, but I
would want someone who is justkind of there literally helping
(07:03):
me, right, not someone being me,right, I think, helping.
So, for example, right, therewas a point at which we did have
a babysitter.
Right, we had a babysitter.
She would come to the houseeven though I was home, would
come to the house even though Iwas home.
She was helping me, right,because I had two kids, one of
(07:28):
which I was homeschooling andthe other one who needed just
extra attention because he hadspeech delay and all of this
stuff.
So she was actually helping me.
So I was able to put myattention towards the
homeschooling for those hoursthat I was homeschooling, but I
was never so far removed that Iwasn't able to give the other
one the attention that he neededas well.
So she was able to help me,kind of reel him in and just
(07:52):
make sure that he's notnecessarily interfering with the
homeschooling with the otherone and keeping him entertained,
making sure that he's gettinghis, you know, all of the things
that he needed from therapy.
Like that's that was helping me,that wasn't being me right,
(08:13):
like she wasn't being the mom,she was being the helper, and so
that's that.
For me, was important to havethat.
I didn't want to have my kidswoken up by someone else, carted
around, you know, taken toschool, carted around to the
extracurricular activities bysomeone else, and then me at the
end of the day, go well, howwas your day?
What'd you do all day?
(08:34):
And not have been a part ofthat.
I just didn't want that as mylife, you know.
So for me, I think I would havehad more mommy guilt if our
life looked that way than whatit looks like right now, which
is listen, I'm gone for aweekend, you'll be fine, because
most days out of the month I'mactually home, so I don't have
(08:58):
any guilt over that.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Hot dogs and beans when you go.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Whatever, it's okay, they can eat a weekend, a
weekend of junk food, is notgoing to kill nobody, as long as
they don't end up in thehospital, they are good.
They are good as long as theydon't have appendicitis and end
up in Kumasi.
What are you talking about?
Come on now.
That's the appendicitiscombination.
(09:22):
Was it beans and what I don'tknow?
But Kumasi is definitely inthere, so, but yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think Okay, so back to her question.
Back to her question.
So so I know a little bit abouther experiences.
And now the kids, I think atthis point now are like they're
in that five range, six range,seven-year-old range and stuff
Like how long can you say mommy,guilt and all that stuff?
(09:54):
How long can you use all thatstuff?
Like I mean, this is not I'mbeing devil's advocate and I'm
playing a little bit, but aftera while isn't there like come on
now, listen, like you got toget back to work.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, isn't there thoughts?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
about that.
You want to make that money.
He's like listen, come on yo.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You just want to put you want to put this ox out.
They get older, you know, likebecause the kids are older now.
The kids are older now.
Relatively now yes, yes, like,let's say for example you would
you consider taking on morehours?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So with my kids being six and eight, potentially,
yeah, right, like now thatthey're six and eight, they're
in school full time, right, sixand eight, they're in school
full time, right.
That's a little bit of adifferent story, but even then I
would want to make sure that myschedule isn't so overburdened
with work that I'm not missingso much, like today.
(10:54):
For example, I volunteered fortheir picture day Right To kind
of help, you know, keep the kidspreoccupied after their
pictures were taken right, thatbetter look good.
Let me tell you something.
Your son, your son, his listenthat class picture he was
sitting there like this.
(11:15):
He was going like this.
I'm like come on, boy, stop,stop.
He's like this this is how hisclass picture looks.
His individual picture looksgood, but his class picture he's
like this this is how his classpicture looks.
His individual picture looksgood, but his class picture he
looks like this.
So you got to see it on YouTubeto see what I'm doing, if y'all
are listening.
So, yeah, I'm able to volunteerfor that.
(11:39):
Tomorrow I'm going to bevolunteering for our other son's
picture day.
So I want to be able to dothings like that.
I need that flexibility and ifI'm going to take a job, I want
a job that's going to give methat flexibility.
That hey, listen from 925 to940,.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I got to go to my son's school and volunteer
because he's going to be lookingcrazy in these pictures if I
don't, because he's going to belooking crazy in these pictures,
if I don't, you know, what doyou think about folks who like
women, who like, for example,like when you are in like a
practice, right, okay, whereyou're in a practice and because
(12:17):
there's pressure, right, let'ssay, you're in a practice with
other men, whatever specialty itmay be, you know, and you're
just getting out of residency oryou're just getting out of
training, or maybe you'repracticing for a while and then
all of a sudden you get pregnantand then you have to deliver
and during those you know thattime, the maternity leave,
usually what?
12 weeks, you know, likeeverybody's changing their
(12:40):
schedule and all these differentthings.
Everybody says, yeah, we gotyou and so forth, and it's the
law, right, like they got togive you that time and so forth.
Did you talk about thatpressure to come back?
Come back early sometimes tomake sure that you feel like,
hey, you don't want to lose yourskills, or maybe you don't want
people talking behind your back, or is that a real thing still?
(13:02):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I cannot speak on that because that was not my
experience.
I really can't.
What was your experience?
I quit right before I found outI was pregnant, yeah, and I
never went back, right, I neverwent back to being employed.
I can't really speak to that,but you know I'm going to say
that, yes, there are a lot ofwomen who feel that pressure
(13:26):
right to perform because theyhave a goal in mind.
Right, they also have thepressure of feeling like they
want to be collegial, they wantto be professional, and so work
doesn't always give you thatgrace of being a mother while
you're also trying to reach thatprofessional goal.
(13:48):
And so I would imagine that,yeah, there's a lot of pressure.
Where you take time off, peopleare taking on your patients,
because when you leave, youleave behind patients, and those
patients don't just disappear.
Those patients continue to haveproblems that need to be seen.
They might need to be operatedon, their treatments might need
(14:11):
to be, you know, advanced.
So you know there's a lot ofpressure, I think, on those
women in particular when theyget pregnant, to be like, oh,
maybe I should go back to workbecause everybody else is
filling in for me and I'm notholding my weight.
So I can't really speak to thatbecause I didn't have that
experience.
(14:31):
So I can't just be like, oh,just forget everybody, just
focus on yourself and whatever.
It would be really, yeah, itwould be irresponsible of me to
say that you work in anecosystem, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that ecosystem has ebbs and flows, so that's a
tough one.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, it's tough.
And then you have the pressureof speaking of 12 weeks.
12 weeks is three months.
Think about it, it's not longlike a three-month-old.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
It didn't click to me until we had a 12-month-old or
a 12-week-old?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, 12-week-old, and I remember.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I asked you I was like wait, so we supposed to
just hand this baby over tosomebody.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yes, I remember you and I was like, yep, go take him
to the daycare and see whathappened.
12 weeks, exactly 12 weeks A12-week-old baby, that's a
three-month-old baby.
I'm supposed to go back to work.
So now you feel like your life,that you want, that you're
(15:30):
building at home, this familythat you're building at home is
literally in direct competitionwith your, you know, with your
professional aspirations, andthat should never be Right.
That should never be.
They should be working intandem.
You know that should never be.
That's a perfect world.
That's a perfect world.
Right, that's a perfect world,or that's never be.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's a perfect world, that's a perfect world
Right, that's a perfect world,or that's locums, and I think,
well, no, to some extent.
But I mean, I think the thingthat we have to realize and let
people know that this sacrificeAt least for me, it is this
sacrifice to everything Ofcourse, right, I'm speaking from
the male perspective, but also,at the same time, I watch and I
think just a true, unbiasedview is there are sacrifices,
right Like things that you haveto just say you can't have
(16:11):
everything right, you can't havethe perfect practice, you can't
make all the amount of money,and then you can't also expect
to be there for your kids.
Right Like, this stuff is workright, like if you want to be
there for your kids, thenthere's going to have to be
times when you have to say no toyour job.
If there are things that youwant to do career-wise, then
there's times when you have tosay no to your family.
Like there's just times whereyou just have to make it work in
(16:32):
some form or fashion, realizethat you don't have to be
perfect, but I definitelysometimes look and I'm like man,
like if you were working, youknow, full-time, like we're
leaving a lot of money on thetable.
But that's not where we value.
We don't value that right now.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's not where we yeah, exactly when right now we
value one, our relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
two, making sure that the kids grow up in a very
healthy relationship.
And three, that they have theopportunities to do things that
we never had.
But you know, the bill's goingto come when we get into our 60s
and 70s because they're goingto be taking care of us.
Remember all that.
Remember that 529s I've beenyou know right, those 529s that
(17:11):
we were funding Anywho Preschool, and all that, like yo, you're
going to have to pay us back forthat.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
For real.
Okay, neat, be quiet.
That's how I look at it.
It's the truth.
Whatever Neat, now you potting,I'm not potting.
I'm just saying, yes, you areNow, you're potting the bill's
coming.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, you're going to bill our children.
My dad's going to pay forcollege and they may pay for
even grad school.
It's like, okay, 70 comes, 75comes.
Dad can't change his underwearanymore.
You coming, come help me out.
You remember that?
Remember those Jordans we gotto.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Anyway me out.
You remember that.
Remember those jordans we gotto.
Anyway me, I'm through with you, I am through with you, I'm
done with you right now.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I'm so done anywho.
No, but seriously, to thelistener, to the writer who
wrote this question, this is areally good question and, um,
thank you, renee, for umanswering that in that, you with
your candor, because I thinkyou know, one thing that I want
folks to really understand isthat it's going to look
different to everybody.
Mom guilt, dad guilt.
Dad guilt is a thing.
Guys, yeah, ladies, dad guiltis a thing.
(18:22):
It's not as prominent, we don'ttalk about it as much, there's
not as much space to talk aboutthat.
But there are times when I'mgone and I'm thinking about it
like man, like I'm missing out,taking them to.
At least.
I want to be able to put themto bed every day, or at least be
able to take them to school.
Right, there's got to be onething.
But when I'm gone, I'm gone forlike a week, so I can't do any
of those things.
(18:42):
Right, I want to be able tohelp them with their homework
and so forth, and there's timeswhere I'm like man.
All of this stuff accumulates,and is it accumulating into a
bad thing or is it, you know,going to end up being really for
the cause, so to speak, likethe sacrifices that I'm making
and stuff.
But you know it's, you don'thave all the answers.
You do the best that you canand I think we kind of just go
(19:04):
from there, but we do appreciateyour answer.
Or excuse me your question onthis, renee.
I appreciate your answer.
Excuse me your question on this, renee.
I appreciate your answer.
This is a really good one.
Um, I think we should actuallyleave it here.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
There's something that I wanted to speak about?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
yeah, there's a.
There was things I wanted totalk about with doctors and the
whole notion that we've seen onsocial media about doctors
wanting to keep people sick,which makes no sense.
Let's answer on another podcast.
Yeah, another podcast.
But anybody who wants to knowwhere I think about it very
quickly.
It's just like you guys reallythink doctors have way more
power than we really do, right?
(19:35):
It's like that scene frommalcolm x where you know the
police officer is like no manshould have all that.
That's too much power for oneman to have.
You really think doctors havethat much power power to keep
people sick?
You know like we don't do that,but anyway, we'll talk about
(19:59):
that on another episode.
But we do appreciate you guyslistening.
We do appreciate you guyswriting in.
We got a lot of questions, um,that people have written in that
we got to answer, and I alsoappreciate everybody for being
patient with us like for real,like we talked in.
We got a lot of questions thatpeople have written in that we
got to answer and I alsoappreciate everybody for being
patient with us like for real,like we talked about in the
beginning.
You know we've been once we getto next year, 2026, it'll be
close to 10 years that we'vebeen consistently doing this
(20:21):
show.
This show is for you guys.
This show is about two doctorswho are kind of figuring, or who
have figured out how to takecare of their debt, who figured
out how to handle relationships,kids, as well as business and
entrepreneurship.
Right, like you've seen us ifyou've been listening from 2016,
you've seen us grow into somany different directions and
stuff.
(20:41):
So just needed a break, youknow, and there are times when
we just needed to rest and Ijust didn't feel like talking,
and this is what happened thispast month.
So I appreciate y'all forlistening again to this show.
We really appreciate all of youall.
I appreciate the whole team,from Alfred all the way to the
rest of the team, audrey, aswell as Kiara, and then the help
, renee.
(21:01):
You know the help, the help, drRenee.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
They wrote a movie about it.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You know.
Anyway, all right, guys, we'regoing to catch you guys on the
next episode of Docs Outside theBox.
Talk to you guys later.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Deuces.
If you missed the last segment, Nii and I talked
about whether or not the 80-hourwork week is realistic for
people in residency who are thentransitioning into
attendinghood.
If you missed that segment, goback and take a listen.
And right now we are going tobe talking about motherhood and
locums.
Dr Nii, what say you?
(00:20):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
you.
What's going on?
All right, dr Renee.
So we got a question fromInstagram.
This is a question from someonewho's been following our
podcast for a significant periodof time, so let's jump right
into this.
It says, hey, do both you andyour wife do locums, because I'm
considering a travel positionslash locum, but I'm having mom
guilt and I'm not sure how otherwomen do it.
I've read articles and I knowthere's plenty of moms who do it
(00:51):
, but just wondering if you haveany feedback, would appreciate
hearing about your experience.
I know I've heard a lot fromyour perspective, but wondering
about it from mom's perspective,how she may do it I think
they're referring to you.
So, we got this question whilewe're in Ghana.
I told them we were going toanswer it, but we ain't
recording Ghana, so we ain'tanswer it.
(01:14):
You like to hear it?
Here we go, boom, so you goahead and answer it?
Do we do locums?
How do you do locums as a momand do you have?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
mommy guilt?
No, I do not have mommy guilt.
So I've been doing locums forquite some time, exclusively
locums, as of the time what?
That was 2016.
So I was pregnant at the timewhen we started doing locums
exclusively.
And, yeah, I mean, I guess Iwould need a little bit more
(01:49):
information so that I could giveyou a little more advice
tailored to whatever yoursituation is.
For me, I am a mom, but I'm alsomarried, so I, you know, there
there is that dynamic which Ithink makes a difference.
So, doing locums, I'm able tostay home for the most part, and
then I work one weekend a month.
(02:10):
That's just how I decide to doit.
You can do it however you want.
And then my husband he worksmore days than I do in the month
, but that's the way that we doit.
We switch off, so if I'mworking, he's not working.
If he's working, then I'm notworking, and that's the way it's
worked and I really love it.
It allows me to spend a lot oftime with my kids.
(02:31):
Yes, I am traveling, so it isnot a local locums assignment.
I've been traveling for since2016 and haven't stopped since,
and it's been really helpful.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
What's the farthest that you've traveled?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The farthest I've traveled is probably about three
hours, three, four hours.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Currently, currently right now.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Now it's like an hour and a half.
Yeah, now it's like an hour anda half, so it's not bad, but I
stay over.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So what does that mean?
Explain that to the people.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So that basically means that I start my shift on
Friday evenings at five o'clockand I finish my shift on Monday
mornings at seven 30.
So I am not home.
So I might as well be, you know, a plane ride away, right Cause
I'm not home, right so you gota hotel, you got all that stuff,
(03:25):
gotcha.
You know, you and your workhusband X, y and Z.
I told you don't make me pullup on you.
Okay, don't make me pull up onyou.
I know you got a work wife.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
My work wife got hands, so you're going to pull
up.
Go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Any who needs.
Don't worry, because my workhusband got mad muscle.
Yeah, look at your face.
Look at your face now.
You don't like that joke, right?
It's not as funny, it's not?
What is it?
Ain't no fun when the rabbitgot the gun Anywho, but you can
(04:06):
do it, however.
You can do it, however you cando it however you want.
I think what I like about thelocums life the most is that
there is that flexibility.
Right, I think I actually have.
So I will say this I neverworked a nine to five, or what
we call a full time.
How about this?
(04:26):
How about the job?
Hold on, hold on.
I got to say this.
I got to say this.
I got to say this.
I got something to say.
I've never worked a full timejob while I was a mother.
I do have to say that I thinkthat the amount of guilt mommy
(04:55):
guilt that I would have had as afull time OB would have been
much much greater than what I'mdoing now as a locums.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Because her question is about mommy guilt.
Hold on a second.
Let me speak up.
Yeah, so the mommy guilt thatyou have.
You said that you would havemore mommy guilt if you were
working full time and not alaborer, right?
Yeah, okay, why Explain that?
What kind of things would yoube thinking about?
Let me get it out.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What kind of things would you be processing in your
mind during that time?
No-transcript even got up inthe morning and back home after
(05:38):
my kids fell asleep, and I don'tlike that because for me that's
, I might as well be awaybecause I'm not seeing them
anyway.
Right, I just know that theyare there and in the same house
with me at some point in time, afew hours, a few hours a day.
But I don't like the idea ofyou know consistently waking up
(05:59):
before my kids, not seeing themoff to school, you know, and
then coming home and potentiallythem being asleep already.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I just I don't like that.
I think the one thing toconsider also is like I didn't
have any plans of slowing downat all at that point also.
So there's a strong likelihoodthat you have that happening
twice, where you have kids whoare very like, the likelihood of
them seeing both of theirparents in the morning or seeing
them in the evening time.
You know it's going to bevaried right, the consistency
(06:33):
probably won't be there andstuff.
So there was a high chance alsothat we may have to incorporate
someone in like a babysitter ornanny.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
So for me, I just felt like I didn't want a nanny.
You know, there's nothing wrongwith having a nanny, but I
didn't want a nanny in that, notfor that, right, if I was going
to have somebody help me withmy kids, that's fine, but I
would want someone who is justkind of there literally helping
(07:03):
me, right, not someone being me,right, I think, helping.
So, for example, right, therewas a point at which we did have
a babysitter.
Right, we had a babysitter.
She would come to the houseeven though I was home, would
come to the house even though Iwas home.
She was helping me, right,because I had two kids, one of
(07:28):
which I was homeschooling andthe other one who needed just
extra attention because he hadspeech delay and all of this
stuff.
So she was actually helping me.
So I was able to put myattention towards the
homeschooling for those hoursthat I was homeschooling, but I
was never so far removed that Iwasn't able to give the other
one the attention that he neededas well.
So she was able to help me,kind of reel him in and just
(07:52):
make sure that he's notnecessarily interfering with the
homeschooling with the otherone and keeping him entertained,
making sure that he's gettinghis, you know, all of the things
that he needed from therapy.
Like that's that was helping me,that wasn't being me right,
(08:13):
like she wasn't being the mom,she was being the helper, and so
that's that.
For me, was important to havethat.
I didn't want to have my kidswoken up by someone else, carted
around, you know, taken toschool, carted around to the
extracurricular activities bysomeone else, and then me at the
end of the day, go well, howwas your day?
What'd you do all day?
(08:34):
And not have been a part ofthat.
I just didn't want that as mylife, you know.
So for me, I think I would havehad more mommy guilt if our
life looked that way than whatit looks like right now, which
is listen, I'm gone for aweekend, you'll be fine, because
most days out of the month I'mactually home, so I don't have
(08:58):
any guilt over that.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Hot dogs and beans when you go.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Whatever, it's okay, they can eat a weekend, a
weekend of junk food, is notgoing to kill nobody, as long as
they don't end up in thehospital, they are good.
They are good as long as theydon't have appendicitis and end
up in Kumasi.
What are you talking about?
Come on now.
That's the appendicitiscombination.
(09:22):
Was it beans and what I don'tknow?
But Kumasi is definitely inthere, so, but yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think Okay, so back to her question.
Back to her question.
So so I know a little bit abouther experiences.
And now the kids, I think atthis point now are like they're
in that five range, six range,seven-year-old range and stuff
Like how long can you say mommy,guilt and all that stuff?
(09:54):
How long can you use all thatstuff?
Like I mean, this is not I'mbeing devil's advocate and I'm
playing a little bit, but aftera while isn't there like come on
now, listen, like you got toget back to work.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, isn't there thoughts?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
about that.
You want to make that money.
He's like listen, come on yo.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You just want to put you want to put this ox out.
They get older, you know, likebecause the kids are older now.
The kids are older now.
Relatively now yes, yes, like,let's say for example you would
you consider taking on morehours?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So with my kids being six and eight, potentially,
yeah, right, like now thatthey're six and eight, they're
in school full time, right, sixand eight, they're in school
full time, right.
That's a little bit of adifferent story, but even then I
would want to make sure that myschedule isn't so overburdened
with work that I'm not missingso much, like today.
(10:54):
For example, I volunteered fortheir picture day Right To kind
of help, you know, keep the kidspreoccupied after their
pictures were taken right, thatbetter look good.
Let me tell you something.
Your son, your son, his listenthat class picture he was
sitting there like this.
(11:15):
He was going like this.
I'm like come on, boy, stop,stop.
He's like this this is how hisclass picture looks.
His individual picture looksgood, but his class picture he's
like this this is how his classpicture looks.
His individual picture looksgood, but his class picture he
looks like this.
So you got to see it on YouTubeto see what I'm doing, if y'all
are listening.
So, yeah, I'm able to volunteerfor that.
(11:39):
Tomorrow I'm going to bevolunteering for our other son's
picture day.
So I want to be able to dothings like that.
I need that flexibility and ifI'm going to take a job, I want
a job that's going to give methat flexibility.
That hey, listen from 925 to940,.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I got to go to my son's school and volunteer
because he's going to be lookingcrazy in these pictures if I
don't, because he's going to belooking crazy in these pictures,
if I don't, you know, what doyou think about folks who like
women, who like, for example,like when you are in like a
practice, right, okay, whereyou're in a practice and because
(12:17):
there's pressure, right, let'ssay, you're in a practice with
other men, whatever specialty itmay be, you know, and you're
just getting out of residency oryou're just getting out of
training, or maybe you'repracticing for a while and then
all of a sudden you get pregnantand then you have to deliver
and during those you know thattime, the maternity leave,
usually what?
12 weeks, you know, likeeverybody's changing their
(12:40):
schedule and all these differentthings.
Everybody says, yeah, we gotyou and so forth, and it's the
law, right, like they got togive you that time and so forth.
Did you talk about thatpressure to come back?
Come back early sometimes tomake sure that you feel like,
hey, you don't want to lose yourskills, or maybe you don't want
people talking behind your back, or is that a real thing still?
(13:02):
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I cannot speak on that because that was not my
experience.
I really can't.
What was your experience?
I quit right before I found outI was pregnant, yeah, and I
never went back, right, I neverwent back to being employed.
I can't really speak to that,but you know I'm going to say
that, yes, there are a lot ofwomen who feel that pressure
(13:26):
right to perform because theyhave a goal in mind.
Right, they also have thepressure of feeling like they
want to be collegial, they wantto be professional, and so work
doesn't always give you thatgrace of being a mother while
you're also trying to reach thatprofessional goal.
(13:48):
And so I would imagine that,yeah, there's a lot of pressure.
Where you take time off, peopleare taking on your patients,
because when you leave, youleave behind patients, and those
patients don't just disappear.
Those patients continue to haveproblems that need to be seen.
They might need to be operatedon, their treatments might need
(14:11):
to be, you know, advanced.
So you know there's a lot ofpressure, I think, on those
women in particular when theyget pregnant, to be like, oh,
maybe I should go back to workbecause everybody else is
filling in for me and I'm notholding my weight.
So I can't really speak to thatbecause I didn't have that
experience.
(14:31):
So I can't just be like, oh,just forget everybody, just
focus on yourself and whatever.
It would be really, yeah, itwould be irresponsible of me to
say that you work in anecosystem, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that ecosystem has ebbs and flows, so that's a
tough one.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, it's tough.
And then you have the pressureof speaking of 12 weeks.
12 weeks is three months.
Think about it, it's not longlike a three-month-old.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
It didn't click to me until we had a 12-month-old or
a 12-week-old?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, 12-week-old, and I remember.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I asked you I was like wait, so we supposed to
just hand this baby over tosomebody.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yes, I remember you and I was like, yep, go take him
to the daycare and see whathappened.
12 weeks, exactly 12 weeks A12-week-old baby, that's a
three-month-old baby.
I'm supposed to go back to work.
So now you feel like your life,that you want, that you're
(15:30):
building at home, this familythat you're building at home is
literally in direct competitionwith your, you know, with your
professional aspirations, andthat should never be Right.
That should never be.
They should be working intandem.
You know that should never be.
That's a perfect world.
That's a perfect world.
Right, that's a perfect world,or that's never be.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's a perfect world, that's a perfect world
Right, that's a perfect world,or that's locums, and I think,
well, no, to some extent.
But I mean, I think the thingthat we have to realize and let
people know that this sacrificeAt least for me, it is this
sacrifice to everything Ofcourse, right, I'm speaking from
the male perspective, but also,at the same time, I watch and I
think just a true, unbiasedview is there are sacrifices,
right Like things that you haveto just say you can't have
(16:11):
everything right, you can't havethe perfect practice, you can't
make all the amount of money,and then you can't also expect
to be there for your kids.
Right Like, this stuff is workright, like if you want to be
there for your kids, thenthere's going to have to be
times when you have to say no toyour job.
If there are things that youwant to do career-wise, then
there's times when you have tosay no to your family.
Like there's just times whereyou just have to make it work in
(16:32):
some form or fashion, realizethat you don't have to be
perfect, but I definitelysometimes look and I'm like man,
like if you were working, youknow, full-time, like we're
leaving a lot of money on thetable.
But that's not where we value.
We don't value that right now.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's not where we yeah, exactly when right now we
value one, our relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
two, making sure that the kids grow up in a very
healthy relationship.
And three, that they have theopportunities to do things that
we never had.
But you know, the bill's goingto come when we get into our 60s
and 70s because they're goingto be taking care of us.
Remember all that.
Remember that 529s I've beenyou know right, those 529s that
(17:11):
we were funding Anywho Preschool, and all that, like yo, you're
going to have to pay us back forthat.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
For real.
Okay, neat, be quiet.
That's how I look at it.
It's the truth.
Whatever Neat, now you potting,I'm not potting.
I'm just saying, yes, you areNow, you're potting the bill's
coming.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, you're going to bill our children.
My dad's going to pay forcollege and they may pay for
even grad school.
It's like, okay, 70 comes, 75comes.
Dad can't change his underwearanymore.
You coming, come help me out.
You remember that?
Remember those Jordans we gotto.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Anyway me out.
You remember that.
Remember those jordans we gotto.
Anyway me, I'm through with you, I am through with you, I'm
done with you right now.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I'm so done anywho.
No, but seriously, to thelistener, to the writer who
wrote this question, this is areally good question and, um,
thank you, renee, for umanswering that in that, you with
your candor, because I thinkyou know, one thing that I want
folks to really understand isthat it's going to look
different to everybody.
Mom guilt, dad guilt.
Dad guilt is a thing.
Guys, yeah, ladies, dad guiltis a thing.
(18:22):
It's not as prominent, we don'ttalk about it as much, there's
not as much space to talk aboutthat.
But there are times when I'mgone and I'm thinking about it
like man, like I'm missing out,taking them to.
At least.
I want to be able to put themto bed every day, or at least be
able to take them to school.
Right, there's got to be onething.
But when I'm gone, I'm gone forlike a week, so I can't do any
of those things.
(18:42):
Right, I want to be able tohelp them with their homework
and so forth, and there's timeswhere I'm like man.
All of this stuff accumulates,and is it accumulating into a
bad thing or is it, you know,going to end up being really for
the cause, so to speak, likethe sacrifices that I'm making
and stuff.
But you know it's, you don'thave all the answers.
You do the best that you canand I think we kind of just go
(19:04):
from there, but we do appreciateyour answer.
Or excuse me your question onthis, renee.
I appreciate your answer.
Excuse me your question on this, renee.
I appreciate your answer.
This is a really good one.
Um, I think we should actuallyleave it here.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
There's something that I wanted to speak about?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
yeah, there's a.
There was things I wanted totalk about with doctors and the
whole notion that we've seen onsocial media about doctors
wanting to keep people sick,which makes no sense.
Let's answer on another podcast.
Yeah, another podcast.
But anybody who wants to knowwhere I think about it very
quickly.
It's just like you guys reallythink doctors have way more
power than we really do, right?
(19:35):
It's like that scene frommalcolm x where you know the
police officer is like no manshould have all that.
That's too much power for oneman to have.
You really think doctors havethat much power power to keep
people sick?
You know like we don't do that,but anyway, we'll talk about
(19:59):
that on another episode.
But we do appreciate you guyslistening.
We do appreciate you guyswriting in.
We got a lot of questions, um,that people have written in that
we got to answer, and I alsoappreciate everybody for being
patient with us like for real,like we talked in.
We got a lot of questions thatpeople have written in that we
got to answer and I alsoappreciate everybody for being
patient with us like for real,like we talked about in the
beginning.
You know we've been once we getto next year, 2026, it'll be
close to 10 years that we'vebeen consistently doing this
(20:21):
show.
This show is for you guys.
This show is about two doctorswho are kind of figuring, or who
have figured out how to takecare of their debt, who figured
out how to handle relationships,kids, as well as business and
entrepreneurship.
Right, like you've seen us ifyou've been listening from 2016,
you've seen us grow into somany different directions and
stuff.
(20:41):
So just needed a break, youknow, and there are times when
we just needed to rest and Ijust didn't feel like talking,
and this is what happened thispast month.
So I appreciate y'all forlistening again to this show.
We really appreciate all of youall.
I appreciate the whole team,from Alfred all the way to the
rest of the team, audrey, aswell as Kiara, and then the help
, renee.
(21:01):
You know the help, the help, drRenee.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
They wrote a movie about it.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
You know.
Anyway, all right, guys, we'regoing to catch you guys on the
next episode of Docs Outside theBox.
Talk to you guys later.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Deuces.
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