May 6, 2025 • 23 mins
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The hidden power of your CV isn't something they teach in medical school. In this episode we talk about aspects of locum tenens work that every physician should understand before entering this space. Remember: nobody cares about your schedule, finances and career trajectory more than you do.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Previously on Docs Outside the Box.
I'm currently living and doingresidency in New York City.
I like the city but, as youknow, taxes are pretty high.
Is it worth setting up alocums-focused LLC in another
state solely for the purpose ofreducing taxes?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I would make sure that you figure out a way to
start your business and maintainyour business in the most
tax-efficient way, as well asthe most time saving way that
you can do.
That.
It's going to be tough to, youknow, really coordinate
everything.
Because you live in New York,you're probably going to have to
end up paying state taxesbecause you live there, and if
you have your business inanother state, you're going to
(00:37):
have to pay taxes just to haveyour company in that state also.
So my advice is just talk to aCPA about that.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
All right, so Mona is going to have another question
that we're going to answer today.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Taking all our time.
Dag, mona, how many questionsyou got yo.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mona got questions on questions on questions.
Okay, so Mona, who is a thirdyear neurology student, says
after listening to your podcast,I've decided to pursue locum
work after graduating in 2026.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, good job.
I've been reaching out to somerecruiting agencies to better
understand the job market forneurology.
Many of them request a CVeither before or after an
informational meeting.
I wanted to ask for your adviceDo you think it's okay to share
my CV at this stage?
I recall you mentioning theconcept of exclusivity in your
(01:36):
podcast, where an agency havingyour CV might limit your options
.
Could you clarify how thisworks and what I should be
mindful of before sending it out?
Thank you both for your timeand for the valuable insights
you share on your podcast.
Best Thanks for this questiontoo, Mona.
Yeah, this is a great questionListen, cvs.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I'll be honest with you, mona.
Cv is gold, electronic gold orpaper gold, whichever way you
want to look at it, but that'sthe currency that locum tenants
companies work with, right?
Because that CV represents somuch more than just you know
what you've accomplished.
It represents, as you mentioned, exclusivity, right?
(02:16):
So the goal of a locum'scompany is to present physicians
or nurse practitioners or PAs,or whatever it may be, to a
hospital, a clinic that islooking for that specific
position.
And once that CV is sent to ahospital and they're looking at
(02:37):
it, now that hospital is exposedto you, the practitioner.
And once you are exposed to apractice or a hospital or a
clinic, once you are exposed,once they look at you, your CV,
by that agency, then that is it.
You are stuck in that type ofyou know, whatever that may be,
(02:58):
that space, exclusivity withthat hospital, exclusivity with
that hospital.
You're stuck with that agencyin that fashion.
For usually it's about twoyears, right?
So it's not that just givingyour CV to the company locks you
in.
It's when the company, theagency, gives your, gives your
CV to the hospital and then thehospital looks at it.
(03:21):
Once they look at it, that's it.
You're stuck in it, right,because it's based off of the
introduction, right?
So what I would say is this Ifyou're looking at different
agencies and you want to knowhow much you think you can get
or what jobs are out there andthey want to see your CV, that's
fine, you can let them see yourCV.
But you have to be very clear,and I would put this in an email
(03:45):
and say hey, before you send myCV out to any hospital, to any
clinic, to anybody, you need tohave my written approval written
approval right, you have tohave a written approval from me,
by email, that says that, yes,you can send my CV to this
hospital, to this clinic, towhatever.
So here's an example you meet anagency you talk to, you know
(04:08):
Nidarko and Renee agency andwe're like yo, man, we're going
to get you mad money.
Yo, we're going to get you madmoney working at mad hospitals.
You want to do neurology?
Yo, we got you.
Yo, we got you.
But first you got to likecredential with us.
You know, you got to give usyour name.
We got to know all thedifferent malpractice things
you're in.
We got to know where you gotyour education.
We need all that stuff, yourdegrees, all that, and we also
(04:33):
need your CV.
And you're like, hmm, they soundlike they're dope, you know,
look how they talk, right.
And um, listen how they talkand stuff, right, they sound
like they're woke, right.
Uh, let me, let me sign up withthem, right.
So now, when you do that, I maysay, once you sign up with our
company, right, we just say, ok,well, listen, there's like a
(04:54):
whole bunch of differenthospitals that need a
neurologist and you know, wewant to send your CV to Hospital
A so they can consider you fora job that's going to pay you X
amount of dollars.
We technically cannot just sendyour CV to that hospital
without your permission, right?
(05:14):
But I know earlier you heard mesay make sure you send an email
that says that.
So I'm gonna tell you right now.
Sometimes you have some reallyoverzealous representatives of
that agency who will just submityour CV.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Everybody don't care about the contract.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, trust me, particularly, you'll see that at
smaller companies, right,you'll see that smaller agencies
or agencies that may be run byother doctors, or agencies that
may not really know, like, thenational guidelines of this
stuff, right Now told, they maynot know the now told guidelines
of this stuff.
Right, nalto, they may not knowthe NALTO guidelines of this
stuff and they'll submit your CVfor you and you may not know
(05:50):
about it.
And then now you're in thishospital system or you may not
be able to go to a certainhospital system because, let's
say, this agency that sent yousaid, hey, we're going to pay
you 150 bucks an hour.
Meanwhile, you found anotheragency that you signed up for.
And that's okay, guys, you cansign up for multiple agencies,
right, you don't have to just gowith us.
You can go with all these otherdifferent agencies, right,
because there's thousands ofopportunities out there.
(06:13):
Right, you can go withdifferent hospital or different
agencies, excuse me.
And let's say, for example, youknow, hospital A decided to
contract with multiple agenciesand now the agency B is like hey
, we'll pay you $200.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
For the same hospital .
Speaker 2 (06:29):
For the same hospital , but you can't move that route
anymore because agency A alreadysubmitted your CV to that
hospital.
So now you're stuck in that 150zone.
So that's why it's superimportant that, yes, you can
work with different agencies.
That's great.
I actually recommend that.
But the key thing is to alwaysemail them and say please, do
(06:50):
not send out my CV without mywritten how do you say it?
Use your my expressed writtenconsent, right?
So that means they got to emailyou and ask for your permission
before they submit your cv, andusually that's.
It usually works like this okay, like we got this job that I
think you'll be perfect for.
Um, they do x, y and z.
(07:13):
Can we submit your cv there?
And then you think about it andthen you write back yes or you
say no, and that's it yepanything you want to add on that
.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, I mean it's not just for locums jobs either,
right, so you have to be reallycareful, even if it's just
regular recruitment, right.
If you have different recruiteragencies that potentially are
looking for jobs for you, foreven permanent positions, you
have to be very careful aboutthat as well.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, because that's how they make the money.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, the fortune is in the referral.
Yeah, right, the fortune is inthe referral.
So you just have to be reallycareful.
So this is you know.
This is where we say, yeah, wetalk about locums a lot.
Right, like we said.
Dr Love said oh, we talk aboutlocums a lot.
We do talk about locums a lot,but there are some, there's some
overlap with permanentpositions and you know, you just
have to know.
Just because you know.
Let's say, for example, you sayyou know what I'm going to do,
(08:14):
locums.
You decide that you're going tosign up with an agency or
agencies and you submit your CVto the agency.
The agency asks hey, can you,you know?
Can I submit your CV to thishospital?
You say, yes.
You decide, however, you wantto work permanently at that
hospital, for whatever reason.
You're like, oh, bump, locums,don't want to do that anymore, I
(08:38):
want to work here.
You're going to have to talk tosomebody because you can't just
decide that well, this was forlocums and now I don't want to
work locums anymore.
You're going to have to talk tosomebody because potentially,
this happens a lot.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
They might have to buy you out.
Right yeah, the hospitalusually has to buy you out.
Yes.
So the agency has a, has arelationship with the hospital,
says hey, listen, we're going tosend you this doc, but you
can't just take them Right.
You can't just let's saybecause this happens, people
will come and be like yo, Ireally like it here, like this
is amazing.
I know I lived in New York city, but I really like it in
Blackfoot, idaho.
I want to live here, I want towork here permanently,
(09:25):
no-transcript and all thesedifferent things.
You like it here.
And you'll be like yeah, that'sgreat, I'll do it.
And it's like but you can't dothat.
Guys, you cannot do thatbecause you're there under the
auspices that you're workingwith an agency, right, and in
order for the hospital to hireyou permanently, they got to pay
Yo, they got to pay that agencyoff, and sometimes that might
(09:48):
be like 50K, 50 stacks or 100stacks, right, the agency wants
their money.
So if you're not going to beworking for them anymore, you
won't.
We don't have to need some typeof compensation.
It's like the music industry.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's a damage, right, it's a.
It's a damage to the agency,right?
That you were going to work andnow they are losing you as a
source of income.
So it's a damage, so theyessentially have to get
compensated for that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
But I think sometimes people listening to this
they're like man, there's justso many things that I got to,
there's so many things I got toworry about with locals.
Maybe I shouldn't go into itLike guys.
It's not like that, like thereare things that you got to worry
about, but there are things yougot to worry about if you was
employed also.
It's just.
(10:33):
It's just something to justkeep in the back of your mind.
You know, and you can askpeople, you can ask us.
Don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid to jump intologos just because it's just
certain things that you weren'tanticipating.
But I know there's a lot ofpeople who are like that.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, there's no problem.
Free.
There's no problem.
Free industry, right, likeyou're just going to.
It's just a question of whichproblems are you going to
encounter, that's all.
But this was a really goodquestion because I think a lot
of people don't necessarilyrealize, when they start working
with recruiters, exactly whatis happening.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You know what is happening?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And so engaging with a recruiter, you know.
You just need to know, you needto understand what is the
agreement by which you areworking with this agency, by
which you are working with thisrecruiter.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So be careful.
One thing I would say, too, islisten y'all.
Like.
I think the advice we give toMona this is good, right?
She's probably listening likey'all ain't saying my name,
right?
Y'all, you should write youshould when you write in next
time and let us know we're notsaying your name.
Right, like like record likepronunciation yeah, Give us a
pronunciation if we're saying itwrong.
(11:37):
So we we apologize if we say itwrong, but Mona.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Damn.
I'm just saying, you just hadto say it like that, but Mona.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Listen, I would say this Remember, you are in
control, you are always incontrol of this situation and
you should act appropriately,Right?
So you know, when you'retalking with a, when you're
talking with a representative ofthe agency, just make sure this
is more of a partnership.
Make sure you are like reallydirecting what you really want,
(12:10):
Right, Don't be led lead.
Okay, and I'll tell you aboutmy example of how I didn't lead.
So you know I was working whenI first started after fellowship
.
You know I said I'm going to dolocums and listen, like I had
never made more than what?
$50,000.
Right, I never made more than$50,000 being in residency.
(12:32):
And then I started doing um, Istarted working with a locums
company and, you know, at thetime trauma surgery was really
like in need.
It still is really in need.
But I was young, I wasn'tmarried, I didn't have any kids
and you know, they would tell meabout all these different jobs
and I would just let them kindof just lead me to all these
(12:53):
different places without reallynecessarily thinking about what
it's doing to me.
And there was that one pointwhere I just said look, here's
my calendar, you can fill it up,you can fill it up for me,
right.
And that was a big mistake,guys.
That was a big cause.
I was like yo, I'm just tryingto make money, yo.
And that was a big mistakebecause what ended up happening
(13:13):
at one point is I worked at onehospital and I worked a night
shift.
Sorry, I did a 24 hour shift,right, I worked on a, I think it
was like a Monday or Tuesday.
I worked Monday 7am and Ifinished.
No, no, sorry, I fit.
I worked for a whole week,right, not straight, but I
worked for a whole week.
And then the last shift was waslike on a Tuesday and I did a 24
(13:37):
hour shift and I finishedWednesday morning and I was
supposed to be at a place twohours away and work starting at
like one o'clock PM, right.
So I want you guys to follow me.
Right, I was supposed to befinishing my job at 7am on
Wednesday morning and I wassupposed to be finishing my job
at 7 am on Wednesday morning andI was supposed to be at a place
(13:57):
two hours away and startworking at 1 pm, right.
So you know and the locumsperson knew this, but you got to
remember, like, their focus ishow much throughput can I get
this doctor, this nursepractitioner, this PA, this
respiratory therapist, how muchcan I get this person to work?
Right?
There's no way that that persondidn't know that and ultimately
(14:20):
, it's my fault.
I should have checked thecalendar, but I was so big on
like I gotta make money.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Ultimately, it was your fault.
You should not have given himyour calendar.
That was your first mistake wasgiving him your calendar.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Look at Renee reading me.
Look at Renee reading me.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Absolutely.
You should not have given him.
Let the record show.
Can you say that first Let?
The record show that you gavehim the calendar.
You opened yourself up to avulnerability right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yes, I did, yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
He essentially took advantage of that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Like we say ain't nobody, you can't your money.
Nobody's going to care aboutyour money more than you, and
nobody's going to care aboutyour schedule and your working
life more than you Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Nobody's going to care about your time more than
you, and so you know.
What you don't want is, likeyou said, to be led.
You want to be able to lead andyou can say no If someone calls
you and says, hey, you know, Ihave this, I have that and I
can't do it.
You know, I just I can't do it.
Here's when I'm available.
That's what I do love aboutlocums.
(15:19):
Is it really?
After you get into the grooveof it, you really start to
understand what your time meansto you.
Coming from medical school andresidency, or if you're doing
fellowship, you're always onsomeone else's time, right, and
every time that you're onsomeone else's time or rather, I
(15:40):
should say any time that youdecline being on that time on
someone else's time you arealways worried that it is going
to cost you something.
It's going to cost you anopportunity.
It's going to cost you, youknow, clout.
It's going to cost you clout.
It's going to cost youappearing to be a really good
(16:01):
resident or a really good fellow.
It's going to cost yousomething.
What's great about locums isit's not going to cost you
anything.
It's not to say no and declineto be on someone else's time.
It's not going to cost youanything, because here's here's
what you need to understand.
If you can't work in the waythat someone wants you to work,
(16:23):
then that wasn't the work yousupposed to be doing in the
first place.
That's it, and so there areplenty of other opportunities
out there for you to be able tobe very efficient with your
income.
You got to practice that muscle.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You got to practice that muscle early on, early on.
To say no, but I can do this orno, I'm just not available.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And that's it.
It takes a while, it takes alot, you know, but you can do it
and it helps you in the rest ofyour life also.
Um, I remember there was oneplace that I was working locums
at and it was, let's just say,time.
It was time for me to move onto another job.
Like, emotionally, it was justtoo much.
And there was a point where, um, from a working with coworkers,
(17:13):
I just did not enjoy it.
And there was a point where,from a working with coworkers, I
just did not enjoy it.
And there was a point where Iwas just like getting upset at
them and Renee had picked up onthat and she was like, just
don't go back anymore.
And I was like, well, I can't.
She's like, but you're a locum,so you could just say you don't
want to go back.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You don't want to go back there.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I don't like it and I , like, had dates coming up like
several weeks in advance.
It was outside of the 30 daywindow, but I had weeks that I
already set up and everything.
And I remember I called him andI said you know what guys, I'm
not going to work X, y and Zanymore, I'm done.
You know what they said OK,thanks, and that was it Right.
(17:51):
And I spent so much timefocusing on what they're going
to say.
If they're disappointed, arethey going to be mad about it?
All these different things.
And I just learned, right, theydon't even care, they just want
a warm body to cover whateverit may be.
And probably they also knewthat look like this relationship
is not really working anymoreand I was glad to leave that
(18:12):
place.
And you know what?
That program doesn't even existanymore.
So, yeah, you know what.
But the most important thing isthis listen the way how they
treat people they know who theyare the way how they treat
people.
You just gotta you can't treatpeople like that, right.
But the most important thing isthis guys, like you know you're
(18:33):
in control, particularly onceyou finish, excuse me, actually,
to be honest with you, you'rein control, even in residency,
right.
It's just, you really got tostart practicing that muscle,
right, you got to startpracticing that muscle.
I know I know you don't, butyou are, you know, like, because
you can, you can, like wetalked about, even in that
bullying episode, right With DrBill Brew, right, which was
(18:54):
amazing.
Yeah, right, there are timeswhen you come in there's certain
power dynamics, hierarchicaldynamics, but you can still let
it be known that look likeyou're not the one.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I mean always set boundaries for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Right, You're not going to come in like Denzel
Washington.
Like yo, I'm King Kong and I'mputting everybody in Pelican Bay
.
You motherfuckers will beplaying basketball in Pelican
Bay when I get finished with you.
King Kong ain't got shit on me.
You're not going to come inlike that in your residency.
But also, at the same time, Ithink there's a way that you can
(19:27):
learn to be.
Look at that.
Oh man, I hope he's not likethat in Black Panther.
Don't let him do that in BlackPanther.
He's a coogler.
Don't let him do that in BlackPanther.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, I need to see.
First of all, hold on, hold on,I'm going to go off on a
tangent real quick.
Ok, listen, denzel.
If you are out there listening,I want you to get with Zooming
on Renee Keep talking.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Zooming on Renee.
Alfred Zooming on.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I want you to hook up with the coach, your African
dialect, african accent coachnow.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh, but he did it with Stephen Biko.
He did it before with StephenBiko.
It was good, it was all right,that was like 30 years ago for
Cry Freedom, but he did it withStephen Biko.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
He did it before with Stephen Biko.
It was good.
That was like 30 years ago forCry Freedom, but he did it.
It was all right.
It was all right, but I wanthim to do that today.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Wait hold on?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Didn't he do a Jamaican accent once, don't you
notice?
I've gone down road until 4 pm,which is at least five hours
away, seven days a week for thelast 10 years.
So what are you doing, comingup it?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Hold on a second.
Who's the guy who got killed?
Who's the guy who got killed byKillmonger?
What was his name?
Forrest Whitaker.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
His African accent is an accurate Listen, this is why
they killed him off.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yo listen, nothing can be as bad Guys, nothing can
be as bad as Will Smith'sAfrican accent.
All right, if you continue todeny my work, the world will
deny my work.
But, men, you're a man.
Continue to die, tell the truth.
Nothing can be as bad as that.
So Denzel Washington has thefloor is really low.
(21:12):
Okay, so all of this, like youcan't do none of that, no, no,
no, it goes like this, like thisthis is a Denzel finger.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
You think you could do this to me, black Panther?
And then no, but sometimes hedoes both.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's not allowed.
You can't do that.
You can't do that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Sometimes he does like a like, like he's typing
Like this, like this, but it hasto go like this.
It's got to come up and drag alittle bit like that.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
All right.
Now you dragging it out toomuch.
You dragging it out too much,all right.
So let's get back to answeringthis question.
Oh, where was I at?
I forgot where I was at.
Listen, mona, you got this.
You got this, mona, you're incontrol, you're in charge.
Listen, everybody who wants towrite in and ask us some
questions, renee, tell them howto, how to.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So you can do like Mona did and text us.
She texted us, both of us.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
How did she text?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
She texted us both of those questions, so you can
text us like Mona did um LimithRock, land it on us.
You can text us like Mona did.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Plymouth Rock.
Land it on us.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Land it on us.
You can also send us a messagein our DMs on Instagram, tiktok.
You can write a comment on anyof our questions or, excuse me,
write a comment on any of ourposts on YouTube, on Instagram,
tiktok, or you can go to ourwebsite, docsoutsidetheboxcom.
(22:40):
Or, if you just go down below,you'll see our fan mail as well
as our text number that Monaused.
So you can do that, but thereare lots of different ways to
get in contact with us, and welove, love, love, love, love,
love, love getting questionsfrom you guys and answering
those questions.
So keep them coming.
We have so many questions thatwe need to answer, I feel like
(23:03):
I'm Batman.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I feel like we're Batman.
We're going to answer thosequestions, guys.
We'll talk to you guys later,peace.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Peace.
Previously on Docs Outside the Box.
I'm currently living and doingresidency in New York City.
I like the city but, as youknow, taxes are pretty high.
Is it worth setting up alocums-focused LLC in another
state solely for the purpose ofreducing taxes?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I would make sure that you figure out a way to
start your business and maintainyour business in the most
tax-efficient way, as well asthe most time saving way that
you can do.
That.
It's going to be tough to, youknow, really coordinate
everything.
Because you live in New York,you're probably going to have to
end up paying state taxesbecause you live there, and if
you have your business inanother state, you're going to
(00:37):
have to pay taxes just to haveyour company in that state also.
So my advice is just talk to aCPA about that.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
All right, so Mona is going to have another question
that we're going to answer today.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Taking all our time.
Dag, mona, how many questionsyou got yo.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mona got questions on questions on questions.
Okay, so Mona, who is a thirdyear neurology student, says
after listening to your podcast,I've decided to pursue locum
work after graduating in 2026.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, good job.
I've been reaching out to somerecruiting agencies to better
understand the job market forneurology.
Many of them request a CVeither before or after an
informational meeting.
I wanted to ask for your adviceDo you think it's okay to share
my CV at this stage?
I recall you mentioning theconcept of exclusivity in your
(01:36):
podcast, where an agency havingyour CV might limit your options
.
Could you clarify how thisworks and what I should be
mindful of before sending it out?
Thank you both for your timeand for the valuable insights
you share on your podcast.
Best Thanks for this questiontoo, Mona.
Yeah, this is a great questionListen, cvs.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I'll be honest with you, mona.
Cv is gold, electronic gold orpaper gold, whichever way you
want to look at it, but that'sthe currency that locum tenants
companies work with, right?
Because that CV represents somuch more than just you know
what you've accomplished.
It represents, as you mentioned, exclusivity, right?
(02:16):
So the goal of a locum'scompany is to present physicians
or nurse practitioners or PAs,or whatever it may be, to a
hospital, a clinic that islooking for that specific
position.
And once that CV is sent to ahospital and they're looking at
(02:37):
it, now that hospital is exposedto you, the practitioner.
And once you are exposed to apractice or a hospital or a
clinic, once you are exposed,once they look at you, your CV,
by that agency, then that is it.
You are stuck in that type ofyou know, whatever that may be,
(02:58):
that space, exclusivity withthat hospital, exclusivity with
that hospital.
You're stuck with that agencyin that fashion.
For usually it's about twoyears, right?
So it's not that just givingyour CV to the company locks you
in.
It's when the company, theagency, gives your, gives your
CV to the hospital and then thehospital looks at it.
(03:21):
Once they look at it, that's it.
You're stuck in it, right,because it's based off of the
introduction, right?
So what I would say is this Ifyou're looking at different
agencies and you want to knowhow much you think you can get
or what jobs are out there andthey want to see your CV, that's
fine, you can let them see yourCV.
But you have to be very clear,and I would put this in an email
(03:45):
and say hey, before you send myCV out to any hospital, to any
clinic, to anybody, you need tohave my written approval written
approval right, you have tohave a written approval from me,
by email, that says that, yes,you can send my CV to this
hospital, to this clinic, towhatever.
So here's an example you meet anagency you talk to, you know
(04:08):
Nidarko and Renee agency andwe're like yo, man, we're going
to get you mad money.
Yo, we're going to get you madmoney working at mad hospitals.
You want to do neurology?
Yo, we got you.
Yo, we got you.
But first you got to likecredential with us.
You know, you got to give usyour name.
We got to know all thedifferent malpractice things
you're in.
We got to know where you gotyour education.
We need all that stuff, yourdegrees, all that, and we also
(04:33):
need your CV.
And you're like, hmm, they soundlike they're dope, you know,
look how they talk, right.
And um, listen how they talkand stuff, right, they sound
like they're woke, right.
Uh, let me, let me sign up withthem, right.
So now, when you do that, I maysay, once you sign up with our
company, right, we just say, ok,well, listen, there's like a
(04:54):
whole bunch of differenthospitals that need a
neurologist and you know, wewant to send your CV to Hospital
A so they can consider you fora job that's going to pay you X
amount of dollars.
We technically cannot just sendyour CV to that hospital
without your permission, right?
(05:14):
But I know earlier you heard mesay make sure you send an email
that says that.
So I'm gonna tell you right now.
Sometimes you have some reallyoverzealous representatives of
that agency who will just submityour CV.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Everybody don't care about the contract.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Right, trust me, particularly, you'll see that at
smaller companies, right,you'll see that smaller agencies
or agencies that may be run byother doctors, or agencies that
may not really know, like, thenational guidelines of this
stuff, right Now told, they maynot know the now told guidelines
of this stuff.
Right, nalto, they may not knowthe NALTO guidelines of this
stuff and they'll submit your CVfor you and you may not know
(05:50):
about it.
And then now you're in thishospital system or you may not
be able to go to a certainhospital system because, let's
say, this agency that sent yousaid, hey, we're going to pay
you 150 bucks an hour.
Meanwhile, you found anotheragency that you signed up for.
And that's okay, guys, you cansign up for multiple agencies,
right, you don't have to just gowith us.
You can go with all these otherdifferent agencies, right,
because there's thousands ofopportunities out there.
(06:13):
Right, you can go withdifferent hospital or different
agencies, excuse me.
And let's say, for example, youknow, hospital A decided to
contract with multiple agenciesand now the agency B is like hey
, we'll pay you $200.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
For the same hospital .
Speaker 2 (06:29):
For the same hospital , but you can't move that route
anymore because agency A alreadysubmitted your CV to that
hospital.
So now you're stuck in that 150zone.
So that's why it's superimportant that, yes, you can
work with different agencies.
That's great.
I actually recommend that.
But the key thing is to alwaysemail them and say please, do
(06:50):
not send out my CV without mywritten how do you say it?
Use your my expressed writtenconsent, right?
So that means they got to emailyou and ask for your permission
before they submit your cv, andusually that's.
It usually works like this okay, like we got this job that I
think you'll be perfect for.
Um, they do x, y and z.
(07:13):
Can we submit your cv there?
And then you think about it andthen you write back yes or you
say no, and that's it yepanything you want to add on that
.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, I mean it's not just for locums jobs either,
right, so you have to be reallycareful, even if it's just
regular recruitment, right.
If you have different recruiteragencies that potentially are
looking for jobs for you, foreven permanent positions, you
have to be very careful aboutthat as well.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, because that's how they make the money.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, the fortune is in the referral.
Yeah, right, the fortune is inthe referral.
So you just have to be reallycareful.
So this is you know.
This is where we say, yeah, wetalk about locums a lot.
Right, like we said.
Dr Love said oh, we talk aboutlocums a lot.
We do talk about locums a lot,but there are some, there's some
overlap with permanentpositions and you know, you just
have to know.
Just because you know.
Let's say, for example, you sayyou know what I'm going to do,
(08:14):
locums.
You decide that you're going tosign up with an agency or
agencies and you submit your CVto the agency.
The agency asks hey, can you,you know?
Can I submit your CV to thishospital?
You say, yes.
You decide, however, you wantto work permanently at that
hospital, for whatever reason.
You're like, oh, bump, locums,don't want to do that anymore, I
(08:38):
want to work here.
You're going to have to talk tosomebody because you can't just
decide that well, this was forlocums and now I don't want to
work locums anymore.
You're going to have to talk tosomebody because potentially,
this happens a lot.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
They might have to buy you out.
Right yeah, the hospitalusually has to buy you out.
Yes.
So the agency has a, has arelationship with the hospital,
says hey, listen, we're going tosend you this doc, but you
can't just take them Right.
You can't just let's saybecause this happens, people
will come and be like yo, Ireally like it here, like this
is amazing.
I know I lived in New York city, but I really like it in
Blackfoot, idaho.
I want to live here, I want towork here permanently,
(09:25):
no-transcript and all thesedifferent things.
You like it here.
And you'll be like yeah, that'sgreat, I'll do it.
And it's like but you can't dothat.
Guys, you cannot do thatbecause you're there under the
auspices that you're workingwith an agency, right, and in
order for the hospital to hireyou permanently, they got to pay
Yo, they got to pay that agencyoff, and sometimes that might
(09:48):
be like 50K, 50 stacks or 100stacks, right, the agency wants
their money.
So if you're not going to beworking for them anymore, you
won't.
We don't have to need some typeof compensation.
It's like the music industry.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's a damage, right, it's a.
It's a damage to the agency,right?
That you were going to work andnow they are losing you as a
source of income.
So it's a damage, so theyessentially have to get
compensated for that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
But I think sometimes people listening to this
they're like man, there's justso many things that I got to,
there's so many things I got toworry about with locals.
Maybe I shouldn't go into itLike guys.
It's not like that, like thereare things that you got to worry
about, but there are things yougot to worry about if you was
employed also.
It's just.
(10:33):
It's just something to justkeep in the back of your mind.
You know, and you can askpeople, you can ask us.
Don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid to jump intologos just because it's just
certain things that you weren'tanticipating.
But I know there's a lot ofpeople who are like that.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, there's no problem.
Free.
There's no problem.
Free industry, right, likeyou're just going to.
It's just a question of whichproblems are you going to
encounter, that's all.
But this was a really goodquestion because I think a lot
of people don't necessarilyrealize, when they start working
with recruiters, exactly whatis happening.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You know what is happening?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And so engaging with a recruiter, you know.
You just need to know, you needto understand what is the
agreement by which you areworking with this agency, by
which you are working with thisrecruiter.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So be careful.
One thing I would say, too, islisten y'all.
Like.
I think the advice we give toMona this is good, right?
She's probably listening likey'all ain't saying my name,
right?
Y'all, you should write youshould when you write in next
time and let us know we're notsaying your name.
Right, like like record likepronunciation yeah, Give us a
pronunciation if we're saying itwrong.
(11:37):
So we we apologize if we say itwrong, but Mona.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Damn.
I'm just saying, you just hadto say it like that, but Mona.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Listen, I would say this Remember, you are in
control, you are always incontrol of this situation and
you should act appropriately,Right?
So you know, when you'retalking with a, when you're
talking with a representative ofthe agency, just make sure this
is more of a partnership.
Make sure you are like reallydirecting what you really want,
(12:10):
Right, Don't be led lead.
Okay, and I'll tell you aboutmy example of how I didn't lead.
So you know I was working whenI first started after fellowship
.
You know I said I'm going to dolocums and listen, like I had
never made more than what?
$50,000.
Right, I never made more than$50,000 being in residency.
(12:32):
And then I started doing um, Istarted working with a locums
company and, you know, at thetime trauma surgery was really
like in need.
It still is really in need.
But I was young, I wasn'tmarried, I didn't have any kids
and you know, they would tell meabout all these different jobs
and I would just let them kindof just lead me to all these
(12:53):
different places without reallynecessarily thinking about what
it's doing to me.
And there was that one pointwhere I just said look, here's
my calendar, you can fill it up,you can fill it up for me,
right.
And that was a big mistake,guys.
That was a big cause.
I was like yo, I'm just tryingto make money, yo.
And that was a big mistakebecause what ended up happening
(13:13):
at one point is I worked at onehospital and I worked a night
shift.
Sorry, I did a 24 hour shift,right, I worked on a, I think it
was like a Monday or Tuesday.
I worked Monday 7am and Ifinished.
No, no, sorry, I fit.
I worked for a whole week,right, not straight, but I
worked for a whole week.
And then the last shift was waslike on a Tuesday and I did a 24
(13:37):
hour shift and I finishedWednesday morning and I was
supposed to be at a place twohours away and work starting at
like one o'clock PM, right.
So I want you guys to follow me.
Right, I was supposed to befinishing my job at 7am on
Wednesday morning and I wassupposed to be finishing my job
at 7 am on Wednesday morning andI was supposed to be at a place
(13:57):
two hours away and startworking at 1 pm, right.
So you know and the locumsperson knew this, but you got to
remember, like, their focus ishow much throughput can I get
this doctor, this nursepractitioner, this PA, this
respiratory therapist, how muchcan I get this person to work?
Right?
There's no way that that persondidn't know that and ultimately
(14:20):
, it's my fault.
I should have checked thecalendar, but I was so big on
like I gotta make money.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Ultimately, it was your fault.
You should not have given himyour calendar.
That was your first mistake wasgiving him your calendar.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Look at Renee reading me.
Look at Renee reading me.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Absolutely.
You should not have given him.
Let the record show.
Can you say that first Let?
The record show that you gavehim the calendar.
You opened yourself up to avulnerability right.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yes, I did, yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
He essentially took advantage of that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Like we say ain't nobody, you can't your money.
Nobody's going to care aboutyour money more than you, and
nobody's going to care aboutyour schedule and your working
life more than you Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Nobody's going to care about your time more than
you, and so you know.
What you don't want is, likeyou said, to be led.
You want to be able to lead andyou can say no If someone calls
you and says, hey, you know, Ihave this, I have that and I
can't do it.
You know, I just I can't do it.
Here's when I'm available.
That's what I do love aboutlocums.
(15:19):
Is it really?
After you get into the grooveof it, you really start to
understand what your time meansto you.
Coming from medical school andresidency, or if you're doing
fellowship, you're always onsomeone else's time, right, and
every time that you're onsomeone else's time or rather, I
(15:40):
should say any time that youdecline being on that time on
someone else's time you arealways worried that it is going
to cost you something.
It's going to cost you anopportunity.
It's going to cost you, youknow, clout.
It's going to cost you clout.
It's going to cost youappearing to be a really good
(16:01):
resident or a really good fellow.
It's going to cost yousomething.
What's great about locums isit's not going to cost you
anything.
It's not to say no and declineto be on someone else's time.
It's not going to cost youanything, because here's here's
what you need to understand.
If you can't work in the waythat someone wants you to work,
(16:23):
then that wasn't the work yousupposed to be doing in the
first place.
That's it, and so there areplenty of other opportunities
out there for you to be able tobe very efficient with your
income.
You got to practice that muscle.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You got to practice that muscle early on, early on.
To say no, but I can do this orno, I'm just not available.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And that's it.
It takes a while, it takes alot, you know, but you can do it
and it helps you in the rest ofyour life also.
Um, I remember there was oneplace that I was working locums
at and it was, let's just say,time.
It was time for me to move onto another job.
Like, emotionally, it was justtoo much.
And there was a point where, um, from a working with coworkers,
(17:13):
I just did not enjoy it.
And there was a point where,from a working with coworkers, I
just did not enjoy it.
And there was a point where Iwas just like getting upset at
them and Renee had picked up onthat and she was like, just
don't go back anymore.
And I was like, well, I can't.
She's like, but you're a locum,so you could just say you don't
want to go back.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You don't want to go back there.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I don't like it and I , like, had dates coming up like
several weeks in advance.
It was outside of the 30 daywindow, but I had weeks that I
already set up and everything.
And I remember I called him andI said you know what guys, I'm
not going to work X, y and Zanymore, I'm done.
You know what they said OK,thanks, and that was it Right.
(17:51):
And I spent so much timefocusing on what they're going
to say.
If they're disappointed, arethey going to be mad about it?
All these different things.
And I just learned, right, theydon't even care, they just want
a warm body to cover whateverit may be.
And probably they also knewthat look like this relationship
is not really working anymoreand I was glad to leave that
(18:12):
place.
And you know what?
That program doesn't even existanymore.
So, yeah, you know what.
But the most important thing isthis listen the way how they
treat people they know who theyare the way how they treat
people.
You just gotta you can't treatpeople like that, right.
But the most important thing isthis guys, like you know you're
(18:33):
in control, particularly onceyou finish, excuse me, actually,
to be honest with you, you'rein control, even in residency,
right.
It's just, you really got tostart practicing that muscle,
right, you got to startpracticing that muscle.
I know I know you don't, butyou are, you know, like, because
you can, you can, like wetalked about, even in that
bullying episode, right With DrBill Brew, right, which was
(18:54):
amazing.
Yeah, right, there are timeswhen you come in there's certain
power dynamics, hierarchicaldynamics, but you can still let
it be known that look likeyou're not the one.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I mean always set boundaries for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Right, You're not going to come in like Denzel
Washington.
Like yo, I'm King Kong and I'mputting everybody in Pelican Bay
.
You motherfuckers will beplaying basketball in Pelican
Bay when I get finished with you.
King Kong ain't got shit on me.
You're not going to come inlike that in your residency.
But also, at the same time, Ithink there's a way that you can
(19:27):
learn to be.
Look at that.
Oh man, I hope he's not likethat in Black Panther.
Don't let him do that in BlackPanther.
He's a coogler.
Don't let him do that in BlackPanther.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, I need to see.
First of all, hold on, hold on,I'm going to go off on a
tangent real quick.
Ok, listen, denzel.
If you are out there listening,I want you to get with Zooming
on Renee Keep talking.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Zooming on Renee.
Alfred Zooming on.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I want you to hook up with the coach, your African
dialect, african accent coachnow.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh, but he did it with Stephen Biko.
He did it before with StephenBiko.
It was good, it was all right,that was like 30 years ago for
Cry Freedom, but he did it withStephen Biko.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
He did it before with Stephen Biko.
It was good.
That was like 30 years ago forCry Freedom, but he did it.
It was all right.
It was all right, but I wanthim to do that today.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Wait hold on?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Didn't he do a Jamaican accent once, don't you
notice?
I've gone down road until 4 pm,which is at least five hours
away, seven days a week for thelast 10 years.
So what are you doing, comingup it?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Hold on a second.
Who's the guy who got killed?
Who's the guy who got killed byKillmonger?
What was his name?
Forrest Whitaker.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
His African accent is an accurate Listen, this is why
they killed him off.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yo listen, nothing can be as bad Guys, nothing can
be as bad as Will Smith'sAfrican accent.
All right, if you continue todeny my work, the world will
deny my work.
But, men, you're a man.
Continue to die, tell the truth.
Nothing can be as bad as that.
So Denzel Washington has thefloor is really low.
(21:12):
Okay, so all of this, like youcan't do none of that, no, no,
no, it goes like this, like thisthis is a Denzel finger.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
You think you could do this to me, black Panther?
And then no, but sometimes hedoes both.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's not allowed.
You can't do that.
You can't do that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Sometimes he does like a like, like he's typing
Like this, like this, but it hasto go like this.
It's got to come up and drag alittle bit like that.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
All right.
Now you dragging it out toomuch.
You dragging it out too much,all right.
So let's get back to answeringthis question.
Oh, where was I at?
I forgot where I was at.
Listen, mona, you got this.
You got this, mona, you're incontrol, you're in charge.
Listen, everybody who wants towrite in and ask us some
questions, renee, tell them howto, how to.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So you can do like Mona did and text us.
She texted us, both of us.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
How did she text?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
She texted us both of those questions, so you can
text us like Mona did um LimithRock, land it on us.
You can text us like Mona did.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Plymouth Rock.
Land it on us.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Land it on us.
You can also send us a messagein our DMs on Instagram, tiktok.
You can write a comment on anyof our questions or, excuse me,
write a comment on any of ourposts on YouTube, on Instagram,
tiktok, or you can go to ourwebsite, docsoutsidetheboxcom.
(22:40):
Or, if you just go down below,you'll see our fan mail as well
as our text number that Monaused.
So you can do that, but thereare lots of different ways to
get in contact with us, and welove, love, love, love, love,
love, love getting questionsfrom you guys and answering
those questions.
So keep them coming.
We have so many questions thatwe need to answer, I feel like
(23:03):
I'm Batman.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I feel like we're Batman.
We're going to answer thosequestions, guys.
We'll talk to you guys later,peace.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Peace.
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