August 27, 2025 • 41 mins
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What if you could reshape your career and lifestyle with the freedom and flexibility you’ve always dreamed of? In this episode, we explore the exciting world of locum tenens work, sharing insights on how to start your own locums company, medical malpractice insurance and why every doctor should consider doing locums.
Timeline
0:00 Introduction
2:47 What y'all say Friday! Ask us anything y'all.
3:29 Working 24 hour shifts as a doctor.
7:44 Billing & Getting paid as a locums doctor
10:47 How to Start a Locums Agency.
14:08 Not working on important days of your life.
16:24 Medical malpractice for locums doctors
21:53 Rates vs travel expenses as locums doctors
28:12 Why consider doing locums?
35:44 Is there a Diddy in medicine y'all?
FREE DOWNLOAD - 7 Considerations Before Starting Locum Tenens - https://darkos.lpages.co/7-considerations-before-locums
LINKS MENTIONED
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To learn Ins and Outs of locums - https://locumstory.com/
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This episode is sponsored by
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're interested in starting our own locums company.
Are the rates negotiated inaddition to travel expenses or
is it inclusive?
Phillip, I love you and that'swhy I'm doing this for you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I don't know you like that yo.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Don't go and mess this up for everybody else.
All right, Phil, how much youget paid is separate than how
much it costs you to get to thesite.
Do not mess this up foreverybody else and be like my
rate.
Also is going to pay for myhotel.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Why are you yelling at Phil, though, because people
like Phil.
What did he do to you?
Phil was like first of all, youjust told me you love me.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now you're yelling at me, Phil, listen Phil.
Poor Phil, Stop playing Folks.
Your exciting new medicalcareer.
It's just been hit with aserious illness or injury that
stops you from earning apaycheck just when you need it
most.
Check out what Jamie Fleissnerof Set for Life Insurance said
back on episode 176 about havingdisability insurance early in
(00:51):
your career.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The real reason to get it early on is really
twofold.
One is to protect yourinsurability.
So if you are healthy and youcan obtain the coverage, you
also pre-approve yourself to beable to buy more in the future.
So down the road, as yourincome does increase, you don't
have to answer additionalmedical questions.
All you have to do is show thatyour income is increased and
you can buy more benefits atthat time.
(01:13):
No medical questions asked.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Protect your income, secure your future.
Check outsetforlifeinsurancecom.
All right y'all.
Welcome to episode 430 of DocsOutside the Box.
I am your host, dr Nii.
I'm joined by Dr.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Renee, everybody, everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, I'm glad you got the energy, because I don't
have the energy and if anybodywho's listening right now, if
you listen on the audio version,you're messing out, because you
are missing out how my facelooks right now.
I'm tired, exhausted, and thereason why is I just came off a
slew of five straight nightshifts, and the night shifts
were what night shifts are?
(02:06):
14 hours, so 5 pm until 7 am inthe morning and, um, yeah, I'm
giving to you, I'm giving peoplewhat they want and we're
recording and this is gonna be aq a segment, a q a section, um,
where we are at what I don'tknow what's going on.
I guess I tired, I don't knowwhy I can't get it right.
It's a Q&A episode where we areanswering the questions of you
(02:30):
all.
Remember, you guys can submitquestions to us in various
formats.
You know how to do it.
The easiest way is to send usthrough text message, or you can
send us something through fanmail.
It's the first line in the shownotes.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
That's how we look at it and that's how we're going
to respond, and yeah, that'swhat we at.
So this is what y'all sayFriday, y'all what y'all say
Friday.
So, whatever y'all say, we'reeither going to answer it or
commentate on it or whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Is there a limit on what people can say?
No, they can ask us anything,anything what y'all say,
anything on what people couldsay no, they can ask us anything
.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Anything.
Anything what y'all say,anything.
It could be a question, right,what y'all say.
Or it could be a question whaty'all say, right, like so you
could you know there's differentintonations on it and stuff.
Yes, that's right.
Okay, that's right, so what?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
y'all listen, guys, let's keep this to the topic of
locums, because that's whatsomeone asked us about.
Before we get into that, though, people, alfred, if you could
run some B-roll of like thevideo that I recorded while I
was at my this is my second gig,right?
My main gig is far away.
My second gig is the spot thatI just did, where I just
(03:43):
primarily do night shift, andyou know, you guys get to see a
little bit of what it's like topack for the job, what it's like
for me to drive out there, andwhat my call room looks like,
and, depending on what we'redoing, how busy the service is,
I can sometimes even sneak inand work out.
So, alfred, run that tape whereyou can show me working out.
But that's just the way how Ilike to work.
(04:05):
I like to do, at this specificjob, night shift only mainly
because it's busy, and just soy'all know I don't like doing 24
hour shifts anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I don't like busy.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I haven't done a 24 hour shift in like close to five
years now.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yep, seven years Same yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Um, there's a whole host of reasons why I don't like
it, but the biggest one yeah,the biggest one for me is it's
abnormal and the it's neverreally a 24-hour shift yeah,
it's abnormal to be in-house for24 hours and not able to leave
the hospital like it's abnormal,although people would argue
that I work 62-hour shifts but?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
but, even if you do a 24-hour shift and you like,
well, let's just talk about whatI do, Like what I used to do.
I used to do 24 hour shifts.
I would stay in the hospital,get there at seven o'clock my
shift is done by 7 am the nextday.
But the question always comes inwhat happens to certain cases
that come in at certain times?
(05:05):
So if an appendectomy comes inat like four o'clock in the
morning, obviously I'm going togo see the patient, I'm going to
go counsel the patient, I'mgoing to start the patient on
antibiotics and, you know,depending on how the OR is, I
might take them to the operatingroom at that time, or I may do
it later on, or I may give it tomy partner.
But then if my partner'sstarting up a 24 hour shift and
(05:25):
they got a whole host of thingsthat they got to take care of,
from rounding to the surgicalemergencies that may happen on
their own shift, you know,throwing on a very quick case
you know may be like a source ofanxiety, just like you're just
not going to be able to get itdone.
So what you do is or what I dois, a lot of times, times I'll
just do that case.
That's what I'm saying.
A 24-hour shift is never a24-hour shift.
(05:45):
When I sign out, then it's allright, or let's go.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Let's do this or you're in the OR at the time
that you're supposed to besigning out.
Yeah man.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
After a while I was like look, I don't want to work
like this anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
If, but so you're uh comparing yourself to someone
who flies a plane.
Yeah right, okay, how manypatients do you take at a time?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
to the or I'm not.
Well, not at 200.
Let's do it based off a list.
Let's do it based off of thelist.
Right, my list may not be 200long, but my list is hella long
though so you think your list isas long as the.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
What do you call it?
It the manifest on a flight.
Do you think your list?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
is that long?
I mean, technically, I'm thetrauma depending on a night,
though, if you really thinkabout it, I'm the trauma surgeon
for an entire city.
So yeah, like we're talkingabout thousands and hundreds of
thousands of people, yes, Okay,but all of them are not getting
into accidents, neil.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
All of them don't have traumas, but if they, do I
do, I'm there Right.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So technically I'm providing a service for the
entire community.
Ok, so, yeah, guys, listen, letme tell you something right now
.
I win every debate, everyargument on this show.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Have you noticed that this needs?
To be the next what y'all say,because I need to know what
y'all say about what he justsaid because, basically, what he
just said is akin to a pilotsaying well, if everybody was
going to fly everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
There's only a certain amount of seats on a
plane.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
There's only a certain amount of people on your
service.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, no, there's no cap on my service.
There's a cap on how manypeople could be on the.
What do y'all say?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
What y'all say I'm right.
Tell me, so I could talk aboutthis another time.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
No, you're not right, so there's a cap what?
But no, you're not right, sothere's a cap.
What's the cap on how manypeople I can see?
Is there a cap?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I just want to know if the manifest on a plane is
the same as the number of peopleon your service.
That's all I'm asking.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
To Alfred, our video editor.
What do you say?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,wait, wait, wait, wait.
Thank you, put it right here inthe middle Thumbs up, thumbs
down.
But you know, right now I'mactually getting ready to do
another night shift, don't?
get me started, but far away.
But before I do that and thisis how I end a stint, an
(07:55):
assignment, this is how I getpaid In order to do that, let me
take a look at my notes,because sometimes I got to keep
a note.
So you know I stay in a hotel,so for five days I'm at a hotel.
I got to keep a note, so youknow I stay in a hotel, so for
five days I'm at a hotel.
I got a timesheet that kind ofI create, I use timesheetscom,
keep track of my timesheets.
And then I got a rental car andall of those receipts I keep
(08:16):
track of.
I get all that stuff and then Isend that out using an app
called Wave.
I think it's like wave, thatapp.
I'll put it in the show notesand stuff.
And I create an invoice thatyou know denotes like, if I work
a certain amount of time, thisis how much I charge.
If I do backup, where you knowI'm not in the hospital but you
know I'm covering, just in casesomething emergently happens to
(08:39):
the other person, I charge forthat.
Then obviously I expectreimbursement for my car, like
for the rental car, I expectreimbursement for the hotel all
those different things I submitto the hospital and I do net 30
days.
In 30 days I either get a check,or we get a check, or it comes
directly into our bank accountand we rinse, wash and repeat
(09:01):
and that's how we do it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So that's it, and we rinse, wash and repeat, and
that's how we do it.
Yep, that's it.
I should have changed it downhere to what I do to Bill.
See, I'm trying to be more likeyou know, changing the banners
and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Alfred could have done that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
But I mean, you know, alfred can't do everything
right, yes, he can.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Alfred, can you do everything?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
No.
Well, that leads to the nextQ&A.
No matter where you are in yourcareer, you've seen patients
your age or younger getseriously injured, have a
long-term illness or even have amental health issue that
affects their ability to work.
Now, what if that was you?
No, for real.
What if that was you Withoutdisability insurance?
How are you going to replaceyour paycheck?
(09:45):
In episode 176, jamie Fleissnerof Cephalife Insurance explains
why the best time to buydisability insurance is during
your residency.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Most people, most physicians, acquire their
disability policies duringresidency, and there's several
reasons.
First of all, when you'reyounger, you're able to obtain
the insurance because they askyou a whole host of medical
history and so you usually don'tget healthier over time.
Usually you get less healthyover time, so when you're
healthy, it's easier to acquirethe coverage.
Number two it's also lessexpensive because it's based on
(10:17):
your age and your health.
You're not getting younger orhealthier over time, so you're
at the ideal time.
The earlier you get it and theyounger you are, the less
expensive it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So, whether you're a resident or you're an attending,
it's never too late to protectyour income.
Renee and I, we use Set forLife Insurance to find a
disability policy that fit ourneeds and budget.
So what are you waiting for?
Check outsetforlifeinsurancecom Once
again.
That's setforlifeinsurancecom.
This is a question that we'vegotten from Phillip.
(10:50):
Phillip says my wife and I loveyour podcast.
We're interested in startingour own locums company.
Everybody wants to start alocums company.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, man, and everybody should.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Competing with us.
How do you negotiate rates withthe hospital, ie, what's a
typical rate charged by anagency versus what you'd be paid
as an individual?
How do you approach gettingmedical malpractice coverage?
Is it on the individual or onthe agency?
Are the rates negotiated inaddition to travel expenses or
is it inclusive?
(11:21):
Thanks for putting this infoout there.
More physicians need to beempowered with this kind of
knowledge.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Philip.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Damn Philip, you want to know everything.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Thanks, Dr Phil.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Okay, that's Dr Zizmore.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Dr Phil from the TV.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Okay, got you, got you, got you.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
All right.
So look, phil, these are greatquestions.
We're not going to be able toanswer all of that today.
So I think what we'll do iswe'll keep it to two things and
(12:03):
then we'll talk about the otherslater.
So let's talk about are therates negotiated, the pre-meds,
med students out there.
You want to describe whatlocums is real quick.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So locums, locum tenens, which is the official
term, technically meansplaceholder, and so what that
means is that you have a doctorwho comes in and does coverage
for various reasons for afacility.
So let's say the facility has adoctor who went out on
maternity leave, or the facilityhas someone who's on vacation,
(12:36):
on an extended vacation, or thefacility just wants someone who
is in the rotation right, maybetheir doctors are kind of tired
of taking call every singleweekend and they want someone in
their rotation.
Or the facility actually has aneed where they need to hire
another doctor, but they justhaven't gotten to the point of
(12:57):
being able to hire someone.
So there's like a space, right,a vacancy.
So that's where a locum tenensdoc or an independently
contracted doc who is notemployed this person is not
employed by the hospital.
They make a contract, just likea plumber would with you at
your house.
The doctor makes a contractwith the hospital to essentially
(13:18):
fill whatever void that thehospital has.
Well, how I do?
You did good.
That's a really good definite.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
That's the reason why I asked you to do it, because I
know that you will break itdown, so it'll forever be broke.
Cue to Love Jones.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Let me break it down so it can forever and
consistently be broke, if youknow.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You know right.
So, yes, locum tenens, that'show we've been practicing for
almost 12 years now and we'vebeen fully locums for now seven
years.
Right, and this is the way howwe like to practice.
I still get paid just as much,possibly even more, than doctors
(13:59):
who are salaried or employed.
I just feel like I'm in thatmuch more control of my schedule
you know I can make, I can workaround like really big events
in my life, as opposed to hopingthat you know I have time off
or hoping that you know my.
The time that I need off istaken into consideration by
who's doing the schedule.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Except this year.
You are working on youranniversary.
Boom Called you out, yeah butit's our 11th anniversary.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What does that?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
mean so it don't count.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It counts, but it's not the same.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Same as what.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
It's not the same as the 10th anniversary.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
What did we do for the 10th anniversary?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
We was together, and that's all that matters, and if
y'all listen to our show and Iknow you guys listened to our
previous episodes we trying toget a house.
We need to get a down paymentand stop tripping.
Stop tripping.
Yo, we try.
This is a season, folks.
Before we get it, philip philis like man.
Would y'all just answer thegoddamn question.
If you just answer the question, you can answer all my damn
(15:01):
questions.
Right, that's what he's saying.
Sorry, phil, that's just comeon you don't have to self-howl.
But listen, like anybody who isconcerned about, like you know,
for locums, like If you don'twork, then you don't get paid.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Right, right, that's, just that's just how it works
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
If you don't work, then you don't get paid, whereas
if you're salaried, you knowyou get time off you're still
getting paid.
There's some advantages to itand there's some disadvantages
to it, but one of the biggestthings that people think about
with locums is look, I eat whatI kill.
When I work, I get paid.
If I don't work, I don't getpaid.
Right, and you have to bereally like, you have to put a
(15:42):
checks and balances on that,because you know you can go
really overboard and I thinkmost people who switch to locums
that's the biggest issue thatthey have is they actually find
themselves working too much.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Because nobody's keeping track of how many hours
you're working and they're justlike look like I'm just going to
keep working and you know I'lltake several weeks off
afterwards.
But yeah, I'll do like threeweeks in a row or four weeks in
a row, and it's like well,that's not even how you work
full time Right.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Full time, full-time right full-time.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You usually work like three weeks in a row or maybe
two weeks in a row, and then youhave some time off if you're a
trauma surgeon.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
If you're not, most people not normal people and
trauma surgeons are not normalpeople.
We're not all right, let'sanswer the question so that uh
phil can go about his day yeah,so, um, let's do the first one,
which is um medical malpractice.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So there's two ways that you can get medical
malpractice right.
You can either get it yourselfor you can get it through the
hospital.
Yep, okay, I'm gonna tell youstraight up right now.
We think the easiest way is tolet the hospital get medical
malpractice for you.
And Dr, yes, I say why I liketo have the hospital do it One.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
it's a little bit of a cleaner.
You know a cleaner way to do itright.
First of all, if the hospitalgets to malpractice, that's less
work on your end to be able tobasically have malpractice
coverage.
We've tried that before in thepast in the past and it's a
(17:14):
little bit I don't want to sayit's convoluted but it's also
not a very seamless process tobe able to get malpractice
coverage as an individual.
You can do it and we have doneit.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Successfully.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Successfully, but it's not a very smooth process.
The other thing is it's moreexpensive for the hospital to
have us get the medicalmalpractice as individuals,
because then what happens is andwhich is what happened to us is
that the price as an individualis going to be way higher.
(17:43):
Now, as individuals, as theperson who's coming in and you
know doing the locums businessfor you know covering for the
hospital, that hospital is goingto be the one to foot the bill
anyway, so we're going to getbilled by the malpractice
insurance agency.
Then we're going to hand thatbill over to the hospital and
(18:03):
the hospital is going to balk atit, which is exactly what
happened.
The hospital is going to balkat it and be like oh, we can get
this cheaper, which is what wetold them to do in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, what if someone comes back to you?
What if Phil comes back to youand says but Dr Renee, isn't
that the cost of doing business?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That is the cost of doing business for the hospital.
See, I don't need medicalmalpractice as an individual
physician who doesn't have myown practice.
The only reason I needmalpractice insurance if I'm
working for a facility isbecause I'm working at that
facility.
So that's the cost of themdoing business, not me, because
I don't have patients on theside that I'm doing.
You know that I'm practicing on, so that's why it is their job
(18:49):
to actually cover themalpractice, regardless of who
gets it.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So basically, if you're saying okay, let's say,
for example, a family med doc isgoing to get paid a hundred
bucks an hour.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Please don't take those rates.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I'm just dumbing it down right.
But let's just say, for example, a family medicine doc wants to
do locums and is going tocharge a hundred dollars an hour
.
Well if you have to provideyour own medical malpractice, so
you have to go to a company getmedical malpractice to do this
locum stint, then my opinion isyou should be actually
increasing your rate to takeinto account that you're
(19:25):
purchasing your own medicalmalpractice.
So instead of it being 100, itshould be, maybe you know, 120
an hour or 130 an hour.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You really are like dumbing this down, huh.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It should be.
But the other thing too is youwant to keep it realistic for
folks also, right?
Right right, because if youjust say, yeah, now, it's $300
an hour.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Then it's like well, you also?
have to consider that it takestime to pay this off, right?
So you have to be really youhave to be really specific about
I just want to give a reallygood example of what we're
talking about here, guys.
So if you want to charge $100,but it's actually costing you
like 30 bucks an hour to getmedical malpractice, well, now
(20:05):
you're only making $70, right?
So you're actually going intored to get your own medical
malpractice.
So what ends up happening is alot of excuse me, all hospitals
have medical malpractice thatthey have for all their employed
doctors and in order for themto add you on as an independent
contractor onto their insurance,it's usually a very nominal
(20:25):
cost that they don't even haveto pay much for at all.
So it always just makes sense,in our our opinion, to just tell
the hospital listen, if youreally want us to work here, you
want me or whoever else to workhere, cover us under your
medical malpractice.
We'll stay as locums.
You won't have to pay any otherbenefits.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You don't have to pay 401k.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
You don't have to pay disability insurance.
You don't have to pay healthinsurance, any, any of those
things, and it ends up being aneasy situation for us.
I think most hospitals thathave common sense will
ultimately say yes, and it'll beeasier for you, so, um, but
there are scenarios where thehospital will be like, listen,
we want to keep things,everything separate, and one of
the hospitals that I worked atthat's what they said we'll keep
(21:05):
everything separate.
You get your own medicalmalpractice, you let us know
what the rate is and then we'llgo from there, and I was like
bet and um, I charged themappropriately and you know it
was, it was a good situation andI got occurrence-based
insurance, um, but we could talkabout that which is way more
expensive, but I didn't have topay tail and that's the reason
why.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And that's the reason , yeah, that's why I wanted to
do that, so yeah, um phil.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I hope that answers that one part of your of
Anything else you want to add onthat at all.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
For malpractice.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I mean, you know, just know, I would say, if you
do end up getting your ownmalpractice, just know what your
state requires in terms ofcoverage and make sure that the
medical malpractice insurancecompany presents you with those
types of plan options and realquick if you need a place to
(21:55):
start about what's the rates andall that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
It all depends, right , how much you should be
charging, right?
Basically, that's the questionhow much should I charge a
hospital so I can get paid?
That's tough, right.
There's a school of hard knockswhere you try and you just go
out there and see what happensand you might end up you get
burned, you might end upundercutting yourself, right.
But I think a really good placeto start is actually
locumstorycom.
If you go to locumstorycomAlfred, if you could put it
(22:19):
below locumstorycom they do areally good job of teaching you
like the ins and outs of locums,giving you stories of people
who do locums I'm talking aboutlike physician assistants, nurse
practitioners, physicians,different specialties you know
different specialties, fromorthopedic surgeons all the way
to OB, to you know allergy andimmunology, and one thing that I
(22:41):
think is extremely powerfulabout this site is that it
actually gives you rate ranges,so it lets you know like what's
the rate?
What's the going rate for atrauma surgeon in the Midwest as
a compare to?
You know, the East coast and Ilike that.
So, um, that's a good startingplace, you know.
So that's that's, that's aplace that I think you should,
(23:02):
you should, check out.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Um, I'll tell you one more thing about the rates.
One of the things that I tookinto consideration was, at one
point I took what was my salaryas a W-2 and then I broke it
down until I got to you know perhour, increased that by about
between 30 and 50 percent andthen made that my rate.
(23:27):
So that's another way that youcan decide, like what your rate
is going to be.
So you, you switched up howyour chair is now.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I'm tired.
This is gives me more active,like I feel more active like
this, cause I'm I'm real, realtired.
But, phillip, I love you andthat's why I'm doing this for
you.
I'm doing this for you.
All right, so your secondquestion that we're going to
answer.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I don't know you like that yo.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
The rates negotiated?
In addition to travel expensesor is it inclusive?
So no, so rates are separatethan your travel expenses.
Yeah Right, this is the cost ofbusiness.
This is very what's the word Iwant to say.
This is par for the course.
Don't go and mess this up foreverybody else.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
All right, phil, so listen how much you get paid is
separate than how much it costsyou to get to the site.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Remember that.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And to stay there, and to stay there.
Yes, do not mess this up foreverybody else and be like my
rate also is going to pay for myhotel, why are you yelling at
Phil, though?
No, because people like Phil bemessing things up and stuff
what?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
do you mean?
He just asked a question.
What do you mean?
People like Phil?
You don't know Phil.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Phil, don't mess it up.
Y'all Listen.
Phil was like.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
First of all, you just told me you love me.
Now you're yelling at me.
What is this?
Don't mess it up, y'all.
I'm looking at you right in thecamera.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Phil, I hope you're not just listening to this on
the audio version, because Iknow you're a good fan, you're a
good subscriber and you'rewatching this.
You get your rate of how muchit costs to do whatever medical
work that you got to do andthat's your rate.
And then you know whatever isthe normal.
So the way how they pay fortransportation is whatever it
(25:00):
costs for a rental car.
If you need to use a rental car, that's how much it's going to
cost you to rent a car, plus gas.
If you're going to use your owncar, then it's the IRS mileage
times.
You know the mileage thatyou've done.
Right the mileage rate times themiles that you've done.
Or if you need to fly, thenit's coach, all right, whatever
the coach ticket is, fromwherever you want to go to
(25:22):
wherever you need to get to, andthen also the hotel Right and
that's it.
And those are separate.
What if you do locums?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
close to home.
Let's say we live here and thehospital is reimbursable, right?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
so you would just take the irs mileage rate, which
is like 67 cents, yeah, 67cents per mile.
Multiply that you said 15 miles, yeah times 15 and that's do
the math and that's your, Idon't, alfred.
Alfred, put it down below,please 67 cents times 15 miles,
right, and that will be whatyour reimbursement rate is a
whole lot of dollars and that'show it works you know.
(26:17):
So that's why rates negotiatedin addition to travel expenses
or is it inclusive?
It is not the latter, it isrates and then separate as
travel expenses, and that's itall right and even like um,
that's it, wait.
What else can we talk aboutthat?
That's it, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I think that's it.
So wait, one more thingactually I did think about,
because I was thinking about DrTrevor, who we did a podcast
episode with him a couple yearsago.
And if you, for example, dolocums, let's say, in Phoenix,
but then you have your nextlocums assignment somewhere else
(26:56):
where you don't live, right,you have your next locums
assignment, let's say, inSeattle.
You can actually have them payto fly from Phoenix to Seattle,
right?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
The next job.
The next job, the nextassignment can fly you from
where you are in your locumsassignment Right.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
So you don't have to go back to home base and then
have them fly you out there.
You can just have whatever yourstarting point is have them
start you from there.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So Phil, I'd like you to write in back to us on text
or send us by text, or howeverway you want to get in contact
with us.
Let us know why you want to getyour own locums company.
I'm really interested in that.
Like are you?
Do you really like, want tohave your own company, slash
agency, where you are workingwith other docs and you're you
know you're sending them out, oris it just for you?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, because that makes a difference that makes a
difference.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So I'm super interested as to why.
So for us, we started off justas me and Renee, as our company,
and then we got a greatopportunity to bring on other OB
docs and we became an agencyand it was great yeah, it was
amazing.
Three years Great Also.
(28:07):
But folks, I just want folks tokind of understand that there's
a difference.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And you know I, you know one of the locums positions
that I'm at like, I found outthat a PA is actually leaving
and is going to go locums also.
So, guys, even within thephysician assistant realm, like
you can do locums, and what I'mfinding out, without giving too
much details, is that folks justwant their freedom.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Like folks want to be able to work when they want to
work.
You've got three, you know andand because you know you're
working in a temporary fashion,because usually whatever
facility that you're working atreally really needs someone.
Like now, they pay more for youthan they would pay for a
regular salary doc and I thinkwe the calculation is like 30%
(28:51):
more than what they would payyou, 30% more than what they
would pay for a salary doctor.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I mean, if you think about it, the advantage is still
with the hospital.
Right, because they don't haveto pay payroll taxes, for
example.
Right, you're not going throughpayroll, so they don't have to
pay payroll taxes.
They don't have to pay any sortof benefits, so health benefits
, disability benefits, theydon't have to pay CME.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
They don't have to pay for, yeah, 401k.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
They don't have to pay PTO, right?
Because, remember, hospitals,when you're employed, they have
to pay you, even when you're notworking, right?
So if I decide I'm going totake a two week vacation, I have
to get paid for that, sothey're even paying you.
You know they're even.
They're paying you only whenyou work, so you know this is
(29:42):
not a disadvantage.
Oftentimes I just had adiscussion with the doc
explaining that actually, thisnot paying benefits is actually
beneficial to the hospital andit does work out to your benefit
as well.
So it's a win-win, which Idon't know.
Why more hospitals?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
don't do that.
I'll tell you why they don'tconsider it.
Because there's two things.
So with locums, it'sunpredictable for them.
So because you can be like,yeah, no, I'm not ready, I'm not
available for next month, butI'm available the month after
that, right?
So they want predictability intheir schedule in their
scheduling and it is a littlebit expensive for them.
(30:22):
Right, I'm not saying it's it's.
It's not as expensive as havingus.
Cause, think about it.
If you're a salaried doctor, ifyou make $450,000 a year, you
actually are costing thehospital more than $450,000.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Oh absolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
What's it coming out to like?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's got to be, but also actually between like 30
and 50 percent more.
Yeah, because because of allthe benefits, the $450,000 is
just the salary that they writeyou.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
But they still have to pay for disability insurance
for you.
They still have to pay formedical malpractice health
insurance, your 401k, the matchthat goes into it.
See me, all of those differentthings make it way more than 450
.
It's in the 500, 600 range.
So just just so you know.
But I do think that a portionof that, a large portion of that
(31:11):
, has to do with they can'tpredict what the schedule is
going to be, and there's a lackof control.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
There's a lack of control.
This is a fight over control.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
I think economics plays a big role also.
But I think if any CMO or if anyCFO, this is a fight over
control.
I look at it.
So.
That's why I think a lot ofpeople including what I'm
(31:43):
hearing from physicianassistants they're just kind of
like look like I can go anywhereand work and I can work two
weeks, or I can work one weekand then travel for three weeks
and then you know, kind of havea lifestyle where, like you know
, I go and live in Europe andthen come and work for a week in
the United States and then beout for another three weeks.
Like you can make this workanyway, like this is something
that you can make work anywayany fashion you want to.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So yeah, yeah, I've been.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I've been.
You know I was listening, causeI got in my notes here like why
someone would do it, and I waslistening to a podcast on music.
I'm not going to name which one, but I really liked this
podcast and I'm listening to thecomplaints of this person who's
in the music industry or whohas left the music industry and
you know, some of the thingsthat they talk about is like
their inability to collectivelybargain right the artist from an
(32:29):
artist perspective right?
right, because if they cancollectively bargain, if they
had a union between, like the,the artists, whatever genre they
are, they just have moreability to go to an eight, a
label like universal and whathave you, and say we want to get
paid more, right?
Um, you know, they have these360 deals now where you sign
with a record company and, let'ssay, you end up becoming a huge
(32:51):
star.
Well, the 360 deal means thatthey own every piece of revenue
that you have.
So, let's say, for example, youmake a big hit, making an album
Well, they're going to get awhole bunch of money from that.
But let's say, for example, youwant to go on tour Well, to get
a whole bunch of money fromthat.
But let's say, for example, youwant to go on tour Well, they
get a piece of that.
Let's say, for example, you getput on TV right, they want you
on TV for some reason.
They're going to get a piece ofthat.
(33:12):
They have that in medicine also, like my first contract
actually said that if so, Iwould work for two weeks and
then I'll have two weeks off.
And you remember like this theit said in there if I did
anything else, if I got incomedoing anything else working as a
physician.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
No, it said working outside of the hospital, didn't
it say that?
So working outside of thehospital?
The reason I remember that wasbecause our attorney went back
to them and said so, if he opensup a flower shop, does he owe
you revenue from the flower shop, and that's when that clause
got taken out.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, so you know there's a lot of well, that's a
parallel right there, you know,and the question is are you
necessarily getting your fairshare of the sweat equity that
you put into this as a doctor,because the hospital, you know
they.
As a doctor, because thehospital, you know they, they
have to put up the building,they have to put up and hire
people and so forth but there'sa lot of sweat equity that you
(34:12):
put in right we're talking about.
You know, close to over a decadeof education, schooling not to
mention the you know a hundredthousand dollars of student loan
debt.
They can't operate without you.
As a matter of fact, you, youknow me already, I, you know me.
I tend to be more umrevolutionary about this, and I
feel like everybody should belocums in some form or fashion.
You ain't gotta be a hundredpercent, but I feel like they
(34:32):
should be locums in some form orfashion, but that's the way I
look at it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Like I.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I look at it almost like the music industry where,
right, you're making a lot ofpeople, you're making a lot of
money for people.
You may not necessarily bemaking that money for yourself.
Or I mean, there's artists whoare just like look like, I want
to make this type of music, butthe music label is saying no,
you have to make this type ofmusic that's going to play to
the masses.
(34:56):
So that kind of goes into, likethe autonomy of doctors also,
right, yeah you have to practicethis way or you can't have this
day off, and so forth.
So it's just interesting whenyou look at the parallels and I
think in general, just corporate, anything that's corporate
doesn't like taken to uh,doesn't think about the
(35:17):
individual.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, and that's why, for me.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I like locums because that gives me that barrier
right there to be like, listen,I'm not available that day, or I
can't do this and I'm out and Iknow that you guys need
coverage, but I'm not availablethat day.
My son has Halloween, can't doit.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, yeah, you think that's what people experience
with Diddy Oof.
We did not talk about Diddy,but we will have to do that on
another day, because that's theend of this podcast episode.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Who would have thought the Diddy that we grew
up with?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I think people would have thought that me.
Are you serious?
Were you thinking that?
Well, maybe not in the 90s, butBad behavior, yo Maybe about
starting.
About 10 years ago, peoplestarted being hip to game.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Have you ever thought about what it would be like if
medicine was like we talk aboutthe music industry?
But what if?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Is there a Diddy in medicine?
Is there a Diddy in medicine?
Yeah, I think so.
Who's a Diddy in medicine?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
I don't know, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Not who, but what scenario?
Is there a Diddy in medicine?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So, in order for there to be something like it in
essence, is there someone whotakes like severe advantage of
people At their lowest point,right?
Well, that's the entire medicaleducation, but that's why I'm
just like medical education isDiddy.
So you got to look, you got tolook, but no, not like that,
(36:47):
right, but and but.
You have people who are incertain positions and they, like
you, have people who are at acertain position.
In order to get to here, theyhave to put in a huge like
investment to play the gameright, and you owe them with
(37:11):
either, you know, paying thoseloans back or with your time as
an academic or what have you Idon't know man, I don't know if
there's someone specificallylike like diddy and medicine I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Let me tell you, I would hope what.
I would hope not.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
What do y'all think?
What do y'all think Y'all thinkthere is?
I would hope not.
I would hope not.
Should we?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
encourage people to write in.
If you do write in about that,we will make sure to keep you
anonymous, okay.
So, yeah, we will make sure tokeep you anonymous, um, if you
have experienced something likethat, and if you have
experienced something like thatone, um, seek action to
(37:49):
definitely go to therapy, um,but yeah, I don't know that our
podcast is the only platformthat you would want to cover,
that hold on before we we get onout of here, though, I do need
to say, philip, thank you verymuch for writing in.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yay, those who want to know more about, like, why we
considered going into locums orwhy you may want to consider
going into locum tenants, we gotsomething that you want to
check out.
It's a nice little sheet, nicelittle gift that we want to give
to you.
It's called the sevenconsiderations before starting
locums.
Once again, it's the sevenconsiderations before starting
locums.
We just want you to click onthat so you can learn more about
(38:24):
it.
But also, at the same time, wewant to let y'all know we got a
course coming out, all right.
So, phil, all those questionsthat you have about, like, what
rates you should charge and youknow, like medical malpractice
and all that stuff, man, listen,we got a course that talks
about all of that, all of that,so you can make $2,000 an hour,
yo, I'm telling you, yo, whatyou got to sign up for our
(38:45):
course.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I'm telling you, okay , you know, don't make, but sign
up for seven considerationsbefore starting.
You're not going to make that,phil.
You're not going to make that,yes, phil.
So anyway, yeah, so we do havea course and it will be coming
(39:07):
out starting in the early monthsof next month, but if you want,
to be on the waiting list forthat course, because seating is
going to be limited, verylimited.
If you want to be on the waitinglist for that, go ahead and
click that link put in yourinformation and you'll also get
the seven considerations beforestarting locums and we'll
essentially, you know, hopefully, if you get into the course,
we'll handhold you througheither getting your first locums
gig and we'll essentially, youknow, hopefully, if you get into
the course, we'll handhold youthrough either getting your
(39:28):
first locums gig or optimizingthe gigs that you currently have
already.
And yeah, we really lookforward to hearing from you guys
and hope to work with you inthe course soon.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
All right, y'all.
That's the end of this episode.
Please once again let us knowwhat you think by sending us
text messages, or you know howto get in touch with us.
You know the vibes.
All right, Phillip, thanksagain for writing us and letting
us know which questions you got, and don't forget to check out
Seven Considerations BeforeStarting Locums Y'all, we're
going to catch you on.
We're interested in starting our own locums company.
Are the rates negotiated inaddition to travel expenses or
is it inclusive?
Phillip, I love you and that'swhy I'm doing this for you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I don't know you like that yo.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Don't go and mess this up for everybody else.
All right, Phil, how much youget paid is separate than how
much it costs you to get to thesite.
Do not mess this up foreverybody else and be like my
rate.
Also is going to pay for myhotel.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Why are you yelling at Phil, though, because people
like Phil.
What did he do to you?
Phil was like first of all, youjust told me you love me.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now you're yelling at me, Phil, listen Phil.
Poor Phil, Stop playing Folks.
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back on episode 176 about havingdisability insurance early in
(00:51):
your career.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The real reason to get it early on is really
twofold.
One is to protect yourinsurability.
So if you are healthy and youcan obtain the coverage, you
also pre-approve yourself to beable to buy more in the future.
So down the road, as yourincome does increase, you don't
have to answer additionalmedical questions.
All you have to do is show thatyour income is increased and
you can buy more benefits atthat time.
(01:13):
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Speaker 1 (01:15):
Protect your income, secure your future.
Check outsetforlifeinsurancecom.
All right y'all.
Welcome to episode 430 of DocsOutside the Box.
I am your host, dr Nii.
I'm joined by Dr.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Renee, everybody, everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, I'm glad you got the energy, because I don't
have the energy and if anybodywho's listening right now, if
you listen on the audio version,you're messing out, because you
are missing out how my facelooks right now.
I'm tired, exhausted, and thereason why is I just came off a
slew of five straight nightshifts, and the night shifts
were what night shifts are?
(02:06):
14 hours, so 5 pm until 7 am inthe morning and, um, yeah, I'm
giving to you, I'm giving peoplewhat they want and we're
recording and this is gonna be aq a segment, a q a section, um,
where we are at what I don'tknow what's going on.
I guess I tired, I don't knowwhy I can't get it right.
It's a Q&A episode where we areanswering the questions of you
(02:30):
all.
Remember, you guys can submitquestions to us in various
formats.
You know how to do it.
The easiest way is to send usthrough text message, or you can
send us something through fanmail.
It's the first line in the shownotes.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
That's how we look at it and that's how we're going
to respond, and yeah, that'swhat we at.
So this is what y'all sayFriday, y'all what y'all say
Friday.
So, whatever y'all say, we'reeither going to answer it or
commentate on it or whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Is there a limit on what people can say?
No, they can ask us anything,anything what y'all say,
anything on what people couldsay no, they can ask us anything
.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Anything.
Anything what y'all say,anything.
It could be a question, right,what y'all say.
Or it could be a question whaty'all say, right, like so you
could you know there's differentintonations on it and stuff.
Yes, that's right.
Okay, that's right, so what?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
y'all listen, guys, let's keep this to the topic of
locums, because that's whatsomeone asked us about.
Before we get into that, though, people, alfred, if you could
run some B-roll of like thevideo that I recorded while I
was at my this is my second gig,right?
My main gig is far away.
My second gig is the spot thatI just did, where I just
(03:43):
primarily do night shift, andyou know, you guys get to see a
little bit of what it's like topack for the job, what it's like
for me to drive out there, andwhat my call room looks like,
and, depending on what we'redoing, how busy the service is,
I can sometimes even sneak inand work out.
So, alfred, run that tape whereyou can show me working out.
But that's just the way how Ilike to work.
(04:05):
I like to do, at this specificjob, night shift only mainly
because it's busy, and just soy'all know I don't like doing 24
hour shifts anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I don't like busy.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I haven't done a 24 hour shift in like close to five
years now.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yep, seven years Same yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Um, there's a whole host of reasons why I don't like
it, but the biggest one yeah,the biggest one for me is it's
abnormal and the it's neverreally a 24-hour shift yeah,
it's abnormal to be in-house for24 hours and not able to leave
the hospital like it's abnormal,although people would argue
that I work 62-hour shifts but?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
but, even if you do a 24-hour shift and you like,
well, let's just talk about whatI do, Like what I used to do.
I used to do 24 hour shifts.
I would stay in the hospital,get there at seven o'clock my
shift is done by 7 am the nextday.
But the question always comes inwhat happens to certain cases
that come in at certain times?
(05:05):
So if an appendectomy comes inat like four o'clock in the
morning, obviously I'm going togo see the patient, I'm going to
go counsel the patient, I'mgoing to start the patient on
antibiotics and, you know,depending on how the OR is, I
might take them to the operatingroom at that time, or I may do
it later on, or I may give it tomy partner.
But then if my partner'sstarting up a 24 hour shift and
(05:25):
they got a whole host of thingsthat they got to take care of,
from rounding to the surgicalemergencies that may happen on
their own shift, you know,throwing on a very quick case
you know may be like a source ofanxiety, just like you're just
not going to be able to get itdone.
So what you do is or what I dois, a lot of times, times I'll
just do that case.
That's what I'm saying.
A 24-hour shift is never a24-hour shift.
(05:45):
When I sign out, then it's allright, or let's go.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Let's do this or you're in the OR at the time
that you're supposed to besigning out.
Yeah man.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
After a while I was like look, I don't want to work
like this anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
If, but so you're uh comparing yourself to someone
who flies a plane.
Yeah right, okay, how manypatients do you take at a time?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
to the or I'm not.
Well, not at 200.
Let's do it based off a list.
Let's do it based off of thelist.
Right, my list may not be 200long, but my list is hella long
though so you think your list isas long as the.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
What do you call it?
It the manifest on a flight.
Do you think your list?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
is that long?
I mean, technically, I'm thetrauma depending on a night,
though, if you really thinkabout it, I'm the trauma surgeon
for an entire city.
So yeah, like we're talkingabout thousands and hundreds of
thousands of people, yes, Okay,but all of them are not getting
into accidents, neil.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
All of them don't have traumas, but if they, do I
do, I'm there Right.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So technically I'm providing a service for the
entire community.
Ok, so, yeah, guys, listen, letme tell you something right now
.
I win every debate, everyargument on this show.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Have you noticed that this needs?
To be the next what y'all say,because I need to know what
y'all say about what he justsaid because, basically, what he
just said is akin to a pilotsaying well, if everybody was
going to fly everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
There's only a certain amount of seats on a
plane.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
There's only a certain amount of people on your
service.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, no, there's no cap on my service.
There's a cap on how manypeople could be on the.
What do y'all say?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
What y'all say I'm right.
Tell me, so I could talk aboutthis another time.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
No, you're not right, so there's a cap what?
But no, you're not right, sothere's a cap.
What's the cap on how manypeople I can see?
Is there a cap?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I just want to know if the manifest on a plane is
the same as the number of peopleon your service.
That's all I'm asking.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
To Alfred, our video editor.
What do you say?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,wait, wait, wait, wait.
Thank you, put it right here inthe middle Thumbs up, thumbs
down.
But you know, right now I'mactually getting ready to do
another night shift, don't?
get me started, but far away.
But before I do that and thisis how I end a stint, an
(07:55):
assignment, this is how I getpaid In order to do that, let me
take a look at my notes,because sometimes I got to keep
a note.
So you know I stay in a hotel,so for five days I'm at a hotel.
I got to keep a note, so youknow I stay in a hotel, so for
five days I'm at a hotel.
I got a timesheet that kind ofI create, I use timesheetscom,
keep track of my timesheets.
And then I got a rental car andall of those receipts I keep
(08:16):
track of.
I get all that stuff and then Isend that out using an app
called Wave.
I think it's like wave, thatapp.
I'll put it in the show notesand stuff.
And I create an invoice thatyou know denotes like, if I work
a certain amount of time, thisis how much I charge.
If I do backup, where you knowI'm not in the hospital but you
know I'm covering, just in casesomething emergently happens to
(08:39):
the other person, I charge forthat.
Then obviously I expectreimbursement for my car, like
for the rental car, I expectreimbursement for the hotel all
those different things I submitto the hospital and I do net 30
days.
In 30 days I either get a check,or we get a check, or it comes
directly into our bank accountand we rinse, wash and repeat
(09:01):
and that's how we do it.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So that's it, and we rinse, wash and repeat, and
that's how we do it.
Yep, that's it.
I should have changed it downhere to what I do to Bill.
See, I'm trying to be more likeyou know, changing the banners
and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Alfred could have done that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
But I mean, you know, alfred can't do everything
right, yes, he can.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Alfred, can you do everything?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
No.
Well, that leads to the nextQ&A.
No matter where you are in yourcareer, you've seen patients
your age or younger getseriously injured, have a
long-term illness or even have amental health issue that
affects their ability to work.
Now, what if that was you?
No, for real.
What if that was you Withoutdisability insurance?
How are you going to replaceyour paycheck?
(09:45):
In episode 176, jamie Fleissnerof Cephalife Insurance explains
why the best time to buydisability insurance is during
your residency.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Most people, most physicians, acquire their
disability policies duringresidency, and there's several
reasons.
First of all, when you'reyounger, you're able to obtain
the insurance because they askyou a whole host of medical
history and so you usually don'tget healthier over time.
Usually you get less healthyover time, so when you're
healthy, it's easier to acquirethe coverage.
Number two it's also lessexpensive because it's based on
(10:17):
your age and your health.
You're not getting younger orhealthier over time, so you're
at the ideal time.
The earlier you get it and theyounger you are, the less
expensive it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So, whether you're a resident or you're an attending,
it's never too late to protectyour income.
Renee and I, we use Set forLife Insurance to find a
disability policy that fit ourneeds and budget.
So what are you waiting for?
Check outsetforlifeinsurancecom Once
again.
That's setforlifeinsurancecom.
This is a question that we'vegotten from Phillip.
(10:50):
Phillip says my wife and I loveyour podcast.
We're interested in startingour own locums company.
Everybody wants to start alocums company.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, man, and everybody should.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Competing with us.
How do you negotiate rates withthe hospital, ie, what's a
typical rate charged by anagency versus what you'd be paid
as an individual?
How do you approach gettingmedical malpractice coverage?
Is it on the individual or onthe agency?
Are the rates negotiated inaddition to travel expenses or
is it inclusive?
(11:21):
Thanks for putting this infoout there.
More physicians need to beempowered with this kind of
knowledge.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Philip.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Damn Philip, you want to know everything.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Thanks, Dr Phil.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Okay, that's Dr Zizmore.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Dr Phil from the TV.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Okay, got you, got you, got you.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
All right.
So look, phil, these are greatquestions.
We're not going to be able toanswer all of that today.
So I think what we'll do iswe'll keep it to two things and
(12:03):
then we'll talk about the otherslater.
So let's talk about are therates negotiated, the pre-meds,
med students out there.
You want to describe whatlocums is real quick.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So locums, locum tenens, which is the official
term, technically meansplaceholder, and so what that
means is that you have a doctorwho comes in and does coverage
for various reasons for afacility.
So let's say the facility has adoctor who went out on
maternity leave, or the facilityhas someone who's on vacation,
(12:36):
on an extended vacation, or thefacility just wants someone who
is in the rotation right, maybetheir doctors are kind of tired
of taking call every singleweekend and they want someone in
their rotation.
Or the facility actually has aneed where they need to hire
another doctor, but they justhaven't gotten to the point of
(12:57):
being able to hire someone.
So there's like a space, right,a vacancy.
So that's where a locum tenensdoc or an independently
contracted doc who is notemployed this person is not
employed by the hospital.
They make a contract, just likea plumber would with you at
your house.
The doctor makes a contractwith the hospital to essentially
(13:18):
fill whatever void that thehospital has.
Well, how I do?
You did good.
That's a really good definite.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
That's the reason why I asked you to do it, because I
know that you will break itdown, so it'll forever be broke.
Cue to Love Jones.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Let me break it down so it can forever and
consistently be broke, if youknow.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You know right.
So, yes, locum tenens, that'show we've been practicing for
almost 12 years now and we'vebeen fully locums for now seven
years.
Right, and this is the way howwe like to practice.
I still get paid just as much,possibly even more, than doctors
(13:59):
who are salaried or employed.
I just feel like I'm in thatmuch more control of my schedule
you know I can make, I can workaround like really big events
in my life, as opposed to hopingthat you know I have time off
or hoping that you know my.
The time that I need off istaken into consideration by
who's doing the schedule.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Except this year.
You are working on youranniversary.
Boom Called you out, yeah butit's our 11th anniversary.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What does that?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
mean so it don't count.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It counts, but it's not the same.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Same as what.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
It's not the same as the 10th anniversary.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
What did we do for the 10th anniversary?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
We was together, and that's all that matters, and if
y'all listen to our show and Iknow you guys listened to our
previous episodes we trying toget a house.
We need to get a down paymentand stop tripping.
Stop tripping.
Yo, we try.
This is a season, folks.
Before we get it, philip philis like man.
Would y'all just answer thegoddamn question.
If you just answer the question, you can answer all my damn
(15:01):
questions.
Right, that's what he's saying.
Sorry, phil, that's just comeon you don't have to self-howl.
But listen, like anybody who isconcerned about, like you know,
for locums, like If you don'twork, then you don't get paid.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Right, right, that's, just that's just how it works
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
If you don't work, then you don't get paid, whereas
if you're salaried, you knowyou get time off you're still
getting paid.
There's some advantages to itand there's some disadvantages
to it, but one of the biggestthings that people think about
with locums is look, I eat whatI kill.
When I work, I get paid.
If I don't work, I don't getpaid.
Right, and you have to bereally like, you have to put a
(15:42):
checks and balances on that,because you know you can go
really overboard and I thinkmost people who switch to locums
that's the biggest issue thatthey have is they actually find
themselves working too much.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Because nobody's keeping track of how many hours
you're working and they're justlike look like I'm just going to
keep working and you know I'lltake several weeks off
afterwards.
But yeah, I'll do like threeweeks in a row or four weeks in
a row, and it's like well,that's not even how you work
full time Right.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Full time, full-time right full-time.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You usually work like three weeks in a row or maybe
two weeks in a row, and then youhave some time off if you're a
trauma surgeon.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
If you're not, most people not normal people and
trauma surgeons are not normalpeople.
We're not all right, let'sanswer the question so that uh
phil can go about his day yeah,so, um, let's do the first one,
which is um medical malpractice.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So there's two ways that you can get medical
malpractice right.
You can either get it yourselfor you can get it through the
hospital.
Yep, okay, I'm gonna tell youstraight up right now.
We think the easiest way is tolet the hospital get medical
malpractice for you.
And Dr, yes, I say why I liketo have the hospital do it One.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
it's a little bit of a cleaner.
You know a cleaner way to do itright.
First of all, if the hospitalgets to malpractice, that's less
work on your end to be able tobasically have malpractice
coverage.
We've tried that before in thepast in the past and it's a
(17:14):
little bit I don't want to sayit's convoluted but it's also
not a very seamless process tobe able to get malpractice
coverage as an individual.
You can do it and we have doneit.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Successfully.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Successfully, but it's not a very smooth process.
The other thing is it's moreexpensive for the hospital to
have us get the medicalmalpractice as individuals,
because then what happens is andwhich is what happened to us is
that the price as an individualis going to be way higher.
(17:43):
Now, as individuals, as theperson who's coming in and you
know doing the locums businessfor you know covering for the
hospital, that hospital is goingto be the one to foot the bill
anyway, so we're going to getbilled by the malpractice
insurance agency.
Then we're going to hand thatbill over to the hospital and
(18:03):
the hospital is going to balk atit, which is exactly what
happened.
The hospital is going to balkat it and be like oh, we can get
this cheaper, which is what wetold them to do in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, what if someone comes back to you?
What if Phil comes back to youand says but Dr Renee, isn't
that the cost of doing business?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That is the cost of doing business for the hospital.
See, I don't need medicalmalpractice as an individual
physician who doesn't have myown practice.
The only reason I needmalpractice insurance if I'm
working for a facility isbecause I'm working at that
facility.
So that's the cost of themdoing business, not me, because
I don't have patients on theside that I'm doing.
You know that I'm practicing on, so that's why it is their job
(18:49):
to actually cover themalpractice, regardless of who
gets it.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So basically, if you're saying okay, let's say,
for example, a family med doc isgoing to get paid a hundred
bucks an hour.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Please don't take those rates.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I'm just dumbing it down right.
But let's just say, for example, a family medicine doc wants to
do locums and is going tocharge a hundred dollars an hour
.
Well if you have to provideyour own medical malpractice, so
you have to go to a company getmedical malpractice to do this
locum stint, then my opinion isyou should be actually
increasing your rate to takeinto account that you're
(19:25):
purchasing your own medicalmalpractice.
So instead of it being 100, itshould be, maybe you know, 120
an hour or 130 an hour.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You really are like dumbing this down, huh.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It should be.
But the other thing too is youwant to keep it realistic for
folks also, right?
Right right, because if youjust say, yeah, now, it's $300
an hour.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Then it's like well, you also?
have to consider that it takestime to pay this off, right?
So you have to be really youhave to be really specific about
I just want to give a reallygood example of what we're
talking about here, guys.
So if you want to charge $100,but it's actually costing you
like 30 bucks an hour to getmedical malpractice, well, now
(20:05):
you're only making $70, right?
So you're actually going intored to get your own medical
malpractice.
So what ends up happening is alot of excuse me, all hospitals
have medical malpractice thatthey have for all their employed
doctors and in order for themto add you on as an independent
contractor onto their insurance,it's usually a very nominal
(20:25):
cost that they don't even haveto pay much for at all.
So it always just makes sense,in our our opinion, to just tell
the hospital listen, if youreally want us to work here, you
want me or whoever else to workhere, cover us under your
medical malpractice.
We'll stay as locums.
You won't have to pay any otherbenefits.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You don't have to pay 401k.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
You don't have to pay disability insurance.
You don't have to pay healthinsurance, any, any of those
things, and it ends up being aneasy situation for us.
I think most hospitals thathave common sense will
ultimately say yes, and it'll beeasier for you, so, um, but
there are scenarios where thehospital will be like, listen,
we want to keep things,everything separate, and one of
the hospitals that I worked atthat's what they said we'll keep
(21:05):
everything separate.
You get your own medicalmalpractice, you let us know
what the rate is and then we'llgo from there, and I was like
bet and um, I charged themappropriately and you know it
was, it was a good situation andI got occurrence-based
insurance, um, but we could talkabout that which is way more
expensive, but I didn't have topay tail and that's the reason
why.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And that's the reason , yeah, that's why I wanted to
do that, so yeah, um phil.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I hope that answers that one part of your of
Anything else you want to add onthat at all.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
For malpractice.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I mean, you know, just know, I would say, if you
do end up getting your ownmalpractice, just know what your
state requires in terms ofcoverage and make sure that the
medical malpractice insurancecompany presents you with those
types of plan options and realquick if you need a place to
(21:55):
start about what's the rates andall that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
It all depends, right , how much you should be
charging, right?
Basically, that's the questionhow much should I charge a
hospital so I can get paid?
That's tough, right.
There's a school of hard knockswhere you try and you just go
out there and see what happensand you might end up you get
burned, you might end upundercutting yourself, right.
But I think a really good placeto start is actually
locumstorycom.
If you go to locumstorycomAlfred, if you could put it
(22:19):
below locumstorycom they do areally good job of teaching you
like the ins and outs of locums,giving you stories of people
who do locums I'm talking aboutlike physician assistants, nurse
practitioners, physicians,different specialties you know
different specialties, fromorthopedic surgeons all the way
to OB, to you know allergy andimmunology, and one thing that I
(22:41):
think is extremely powerfulabout this site is that it
actually gives you rate ranges,so it lets you know like what's
the rate?
What's the going rate for atrauma surgeon in the Midwest as
a compare to?
You know, the East coast and Ilike that.
So, um, that's a good startingplace, you know.
So that's that's, that's aplace that I think you should,
(23:02):
you should, check out.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Um, I'll tell you one more thing about the rates.
One of the things that I tookinto consideration was, at one
point I took what was my salaryas a W-2 and then I broke it
down until I got to you know perhour, increased that by about
between 30 and 50 percent andthen made that my rate.
(23:27):
So that's another way that youcan decide, like what your rate
is going to be.
So you, you switched up howyour chair is now.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I'm tired.
This is gives me more active,like I feel more active like
this, cause I'm I'm real, realtired.
But, phillip, I love you andthat's why I'm doing this for
you.
I'm doing this for you.
All right, so your secondquestion that we're going to
answer.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I don't know you like that yo.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
The rates negotiated?
In addition to travel expensesor is it inclusive?
So no, so rates are separatethan your travel expenses.
Yeah Right, this is the cost ofbusiness.
This is very what's the word Iwant to say.
This is par for the course.
Don't go and mess this up foreverybody else.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
All right, phil, so listen how much you get paid is
separate than how much it costsyou to get to the site.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Remember that.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And to stay there, and to stay there.
Yes, do not mess this up foreverybody else and be like my
rate also is going to pay for myhotel, why are you yelling at
Phil, though?
No, because people like Phil bemessing things up and stuff
what?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
do you mean?
He just asked a question.
What do you mean?
People like Phil?
You don't know Phil.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Phil, don't mess it up.
Y'all Listen.
Phil was like.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
First of all, you just told me you love me.
Now you're yelling at me.
What is this?
Don't mess it up, y'all.
I'm looking at you right in thecamera.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Phil, I hope you're not just listening to this on
the audio version, because Iknow you're a good fan, you're a
good subscriber and you'rewatching this.
You get your rate of how muchit costs to do whatever medical
work that you got to do andthat's your rate.
And then you know whatever isthe normal.
So the way how they pay fortransportation is whatever it
(25:00):
costs for a rental car.
If you need to use a rental car, that's how much it's going to
cost you to rent a car, plus gas.
If you're going to use your owncar, then it's the IRS mileage
times.
You know the mileage thatyou've done.
Right the mileage rate times themiles that you've done.
Or if you need to fly, thenit's coach, all right, whatever
the coach ticket is, fromwherever you want to go to
(25:22):
wherever you need to get to, andthen also the hotel Right and
that's it.
And those are separate.
What if you do locums?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
close to home.
Let's say we live here and thehospital is reimbursable, right?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
so you would just take the irs mileage rate, which
is like 67 cents, yeah, 67cents per mile.
Multiply that you said 15 miles, yeah times 15 and that's do
the math and that's your, Idon't, alfred.
Alfred, put it down below,please 67 cents times 15 miles,
right, and that will be whatyour reimbursement rate is a
whole lot of dollars and that'show it works you know.
(26:17):
So that's why rates negotiatedin addition to travel expenses
or is it inclusive?
It is not the latter, it isrates and then separate as
travel expenses, and that's itall right and even like um,
that's it, wait.
What else can we talk aboutthat?
That's it, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I think that's it.
So wait, one more thingactually I did think about,
because I was thinking about DrTrevor, who we did a podcast
episode with him a couple yearsago.
And if you, for example, dolocums, let's say, in Phoenix,
but then you have your nextlocums assignment somewhere else
(26:56):
where you don't live, right,you have your next locums
assignment, let's say, inSeattle.
You can actually have them payto fly from Phoenix to Seattle,
right?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
The next job.
The next job, the nextassignment can fly you from
where you are in your locumsassignment Right.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
So you don't have to go back to home base and then
have them fly you out there.
You can just have whatever yourstarting point is have them
start you from there.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So Phil, I'd like you to write in back to us on text
or send us by text, or howeverway you want to get in contact
with us.
Let us know why you want to getyour own locums company.
I'm really interested in that.
Like are you?
Do you really like, want tohave your own company, slash
agency, where you are workingwith other docs and you're you
know you're sending them out, oris it just for you?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, because that makes a difference that makes a
difference.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So I'm super interested as to why.
So for us, we started off justas me and Renee, as our company,
and then we got a greatopportunity to bring on other OB
docs and we became an agencyand it was great yeah, it was
amazing.
Three years Great Also.
(28:07):
But folks, I just want folks tokind of understand that there's
a difference.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And you know I, you know one of the locums positions
that I'm at like, I found outthat a PA is actually leaving
and is going to go locums also.
So, guys, even within thephysician assistant realm, like
you can do locums, and what I'mfinding out, without giving too
much details, is that folks justwant their freedom.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Like folks want to be able to work when they want to
work.
You've got three, you know andand because you know you're
working in a temporary fashion,because usually whatever
facility that you're working atreally really needs someone.
Like now, they pay more for youthan they would pay for a
regular salary doc and I thinkwe the calculation is like 30%
(28:51):
more than what they would payyou, 30% more than what they
would pay for a salary doctor.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
I mean, if you think about it, the advantage is still
with the hospital.
Right, because they don't haveto pay payroll taxes, for
example.
Right, you're not going throughpayroll, so they don't have to
pay payroll taxes.
They don't have to pay any sortof benefits, so health benefits
, disability benefits, theydon't have to pay CME.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
They don't have to pay for, yeah, 401k.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
They don't have to pay PTO, right?
Because, remember, hospitals,when you're employed, they have
to pay you, even when you're notworking, right?
So if I decide I'm going totake a two week vacation, I have
to get paid for that, sothey're even paying you.
You know they're even.
They're paying you only whenyou work, so you know this is
(29:42):
not a disadvantage.
Oftentimes I just had adiscussion with the doc
explaining that actually, thisnot paying benefits is actually
beneficial to the hospital andit does work out to your benefit
as well.
So it's a win-win, which Idon't know.
Why more hospitals?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
don't do that.
I'll tell you why they don'tconsider it.
Because there's two things.
So with locums, it'sunpredictable for them.
So because you can be like,yeah, no, I'm not ready, I'm not
available for next month, butI'm available the month after
that, right?
So they want predictability intheir schedule in their
scheduling and it is a littlebit expensive for them.
(30:22):
Right, I'm not saying it's it's.
It's not as expensive as havingus.
Cause, think about it.
If you're a salaried doctor, ifyou make $450,000 a year, you
actually are costing thehospital more than $450,000.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Oh absolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
What's it coming out to like?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's got to be, but also actually between like 30
and 50 percent more.
Yeah, because because of allthe benefits, the $450,000 is
just the salary that they writeyou.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
But they still have to pay for disability insurance
for you.
They still have to pay formedical malpractice health
insurance, your 401k, the matchthat goes into it.
See me, all of those differentthings make it way more than 450
.
It's in the 500, 600 range.
So just just so you know.
But I do think that a portionof that, a large portion of that
(31:11):
, has to do with they can'tpredict what the schedule is
going to be, and there's a lackof control.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
There's a lack of control.
This is a fight over control.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
I think economics plays a big role also.
But I think if any CMO or if anyCFO, this is a fight over
control.
I look at it.
So.
That's why I think a lot ofpeople including what I'm
(31:43):
hearing from physicianassistants they're just kind of
like look like I can go anywhereand work and I can work two
weeks, or I can work one weekand then travel for three weeks
and then you know, kind of havea lifestyle where, like you know
, I go and live in Europe andthen come and work for a week in
the United States and then beout for another three weeks.
Like you can make this workanyway, like this is something
that you can make work anywayany fashion you want to.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So yeah, yeah, I've been.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I've been.
You know I was listening, causeI got in my notes here like why
someone would do it, and I waslistening to a podcast on music.
I'm not going to name which one, but I really liked this
podcast and I'm listening to thecomplaints of this person who's
in the music industry or whohas left the music industry and
you know, some of the thingsthat they talk about is like
their inability to collectivelybargain right the artist from an
(32:29):
artist perspective right?
right, because if they cancollectively bargain, if they
had a union between, like the,the artists, whatever genre they
are, they just have moreability to go to an eight, a
label like universal and whathave you, and say we want to get
paid more, right?
Um, you know, they have these360 deals now where you sign
with a record company and, let'ssay, you end up becoming a huge
(32:51):
star.
Well, the 360 deal means thatthey own every piece of revenue
that you have.
So, let's say, for example, youmake a big hit, making an album
Well, they're going to get awhole bunch of money from that.
But let's say, for example, youwant to go on tour Well, to get
a whole bunch of money fromthat.
But let's say, for example, youwant to go on tour Well, they
get a piece of that.
Let's say, for example, you getput on TV right, they want you
on TV for some reason.
They're going to get a piece ofthat.
(33:12):
They have that in medicine also, like my first contract
actually said that if so, Iwould work for two weeks and
then I'll have two weeks off.
And you remember like this theit said in there if I did
anything else, if I got incomedoing anything else working as a
physician.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
No, it said working outside of the hospital, didn't
it say that?
So working outside of thehospital?
The reason I remember that wasbecause our attorney went back
to them and said so, if he opensup a flower shop, does he owe
you revenue from the flower shop, and that's when that clause
got taken out.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, so you know there's a lot of well, that's a
parallel right there, you know,and the question is are you
necessarily getting your fairshare of the sweat equity that
you put into this as a doctor,because the hospital, you know
they.
As a doctor, because thehospital, you know they, they
have to put up the building,they have to put up and hire
people and so forth but there'sa lot of sweat equity that you
(34:12):
put in right we're talking about.
You know, close to over a decadeof education, schooling not to
mention the you know a hundredthousand dollars of student loan
debt.
They can't operate without you.
As a matter of fact, you, youknow me already, I, you know me.
I tend to be more umrevolutionary about this, and I
feel like everybody should belocums in some form or fashion.
You ain't gotta be a hundredpercent, but I feel like they
(34:32):
should be locums in some form orfashion, but that's the way I
look at it.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Like I.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I look at it almost like the music industry where,
right, you're making a lot ofpeople, you're making a lot of
money for people.
You may not necessarily bemaking that money for yourself.
Or I mean, there's artists whoare just like look like, I want
to make this type of music, butthe music label is saying no,
you have to make this type ofmusic that's going to play to
the masses.
(34:56):
So that kind of goes into, likethe autonomy of doctors also,
right, yeah you have to practicethis way or you can't have this
day off, and so forth.
So it's just interesting whenyou look at the parallels and I
think in general, just corporate, anything that's corporate
doesn't like taken to uh,doesn't think about the
(35:17):
individual.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, and that's why, for me.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I like locums because that gives me that barrier
right there to be like, listen,I'm not available that day, or I
can't do this and I'm out and Iknow that you guys need
coverage, but I'm not availablethat day.
My son has Halloween, can't doit.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, yeah, you think that's what people experience
with Diddy Oof.
We did not talk about Diddy,but we will have to do that on
another day, because that's theend of this podcast episode.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Who would have thought the Diddy that we grew
up with?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I think people would have thought that me.
Are you serious?
Were you thinking that?
Well, maybe not in the 90s, butBad behavior, yo Maybe about
starting.
About 10 years ago, peoplestarted being hip to game.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Have you ever thought about what it would be like if
medicine was like we talk aboutthe music industry?
But what if?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Is there a Diddy in medicine?
Is there a Diddy in medicine?
Yeah, I think so.
Who's a Diddy in medicine?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
I don't know, but I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Not who, but what scenario?
Is there a Diddy in medicine?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So, in order for there to be something like it in
essence, is there someone whotakes like severe advantage of
people At their lowest point,right?
Well, that's the entire medicaleducation, but that's why I'm
just like medical education isDiddy.
So you got to look, you got tolook, but no, not like that,
(36:47):
right, but and but.
You have people who are incertain positions and they, like
you, have people who are at acertain position.
In order to get to here, theyhave to put in a huge like
investment to play the gameright, and you owe them with
(37:11):
either, you know, paying thoseloans back or with your time as
an academic or what have you Idon't know man, I don't know if
there's someone specificallylike like diddy and medicine I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Let me tell you, I would hope what.
I would hope not.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
What do y'all think?
What do y'all think Y'all thinkthere is?
I would hope not.
I would hope not.
Should we?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
encourage people to write in.
If you do write in about that,we will make sure to keep you
anonymous, okay.
So, yeah, we will make sure tokeep you anonymous, um, if you
have experienced something likethat, and if you have
experienced something like thatone, um, seek action to
(37:49):
definitely go to therapy, um,but yeah, I don't know that our
podcast is the only platformthat you would want to cover,
that hold on before we we get onout of here, though, I do need
to say, philip, thank you verymuch for writing in.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yay, those who want to know more about, like, why we
considered going into locums orwhy you may want to consider
going into locum tenants, we gotsomething that you want to
check out.
It's a nice little sheet, nicelittle gift that we want to give
to you.
It's called the sevenconsiderations before starting
locums.
Once again, it's the sevenconsiderations before starting
locums.
We just want you to click onthat so you can learn more about
(38:24):
it.
But also, at the same time, wewant to let y'all know we got a
course coming out, all right.
So, phil, all those questionsthat you have about, like, what
rates you should charge and youknow, like medical malpractice
and all that stuff, man, listen,we got a course that talks
about all of that, all of that,so you can make $2,000 an hour,
yo, I'm telling you, yo, whatyou got to sign up for our
(38:45):
course.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I'm telling you, okay , you know, don't make, but sign
up for seven considerationsbefore starting.
You're not going to make that,phil.
You're not going to make that,yes, phil.
So anyway, yeah, so we do havea course and it will be coming
(39:07):
out starting in the early monthsof next month, but if you want,
to be on the waiting list forthat course, because seating is
going to be limited, verylimited.
If you want to be on the waitinglist for that, go ahead and
click that link put in yourinformation and you'll also get
the seven considerations beforestarting locums and we'll
essentially, you know, hopefully, if you get into the course,
we'll handhold you througheither getting your first locums
gig and we'll essentially, youknow, hopefully, if you get into
the course, we'll handhold youthrough either getting your
(39:28):
first locums gig or optimizingthe gigs that you currently have
already.
And yeah, we really lookforward to hearing from you guys
and hope to work with you inthe course soon.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
All right, y'all.
That's the end of this episode.
Please once again let us knowwhat you think by sending us
text messages, or you know howto get in touch with us.
You know the vibes.
All right, Phillip, thanksagain for writing us and letting
us know which questions you got, and don't forget to check out
Seven Considerations BeforeStarting Locums Y'all, we're
going to catch you on.
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