July 1, 2025 • 30 mins
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Nii discusses the trend of doctors seeking less than full-time work. Sarah Ledbetter, Physician Recruitment Manager at Provider Solutions & Development, is on to debunk the theory that medical employers are solely seeking full-time doctors.
Things to expect in this episode:
- Defining Full-time work
- Which generation is seeking more work/life balance
- The 'Covid Reset' and how doctors look at employment now
- The difference between part-time, per diem, and locums work
- The trend of mid-career doctors seeking less than full-time work
Journal Articles:
https://psdconnect.org/journal/what-you-should-know-about-becoming-a-part-time-physician
Medscape Physician Lifestyle & Happiness Report 2022
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey you, yeah you, the one listening to this
podcast right now.
I'm guessing you tune into DocsOutside the Box because taking
control of your career is reallyimportant to you.
Now our sponsor ProviderSolutions and Development.
They have a team of expertsthat are ready to guide docs,
just like you, through today'sjob landscape.
They've also got exclusiveaccess to hundreds of positions
(00:24):
nationwide.
So whether you're looking todive deeper into your specialty
work or let's keep it realyou're trying to find a
healthier work-life balance,it's important to start the
conversation with them right now.
Contact them atinfopsdconnectorg.
Forward slash docs outside thebox dot org.
(00:50):
Forward slash docs outside thebox.
All right, sarah Ledbetter, youare the physician recruitment
manager at Provider Solutionsand Development.
What's good how you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Great, how about yourself?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm doing excellent.
It is July when we arerecording this.
Obviously, this is a veryinteresting time for folks who
are coming into residency, aswell as those third years, maybe
even chief residents who arebeginning their foray into their
chief year of residency, butalso, at the same time, this is
the perfect time for them tostart looking for what they're
going to be doing afterwards.
Also, we got some doctors whohave just finished residency,
(01:22):
just finished fellowship, andmaybe they are trying to figure
out what to do next with theirlife, with their career.
So we got you on here to talkabout choosing the right type of
full-time employment, and whatI mean by that is are you going
to be a full-time doc?
Are you going to be a part-timedoc?
Will you do locums?
And I think that when it comesdown to looking for a position,
(01:43):
I think most people who arelooking for a position always
have in mind that that job, thathospital, that clinic, that
private practice is alwayslooking for someone to be
completely, fully employed.
You're here to debunk thattheory.
So, before we jump into that,why don't you just introduce
yourself and then we'll go rightinto it?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yes, thank you so much.
My name is Sarah Ledbetter.
I'm a recruitment manager forProvider Solutions and
Development and we providerecruitment services to dozens
of healthcare organizationsacross the country and we
recruit for hundreds of jobopportunities across most
specialties.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Even trauma surgery.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
At some point I'm sure we have, if not right now.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Because a brother may need a job yo.
So I was going to make sure Icould at least get a job with
you guys.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, I've been a physician and provider recruiter
for nearly 10 years, primarilyin Washington state, and I'm
really excited to be joining youhere today to talk about some
of the trends we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay.
So listen, you wrote a journalarticle talking about what
people need to know aboutbecoming a part-time physician.
If you go to this article, guys, there's even like there's two
gentlemen there.
They're chilling, they'rehaving a hot chai tea or
whatever.
They're having something,they're getting together and
having a good time, and I thinkthat a lot of people nowadays
are more concerned about notjust being an excellent provider
(03:04):
, an excellent physician, butalso, at the same time, they
want to have a dope life, theywant to have a great lifestyle.
Let's talk about this 1.0 FTE,full-time equivalent.
Talk to us about what thatmeans, and then the different
types of employment type models.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I think that's a great place to start, because
we'll be using that phrase, fte,a lot.
Fte stands for full-timeequivalent and I think the
easiest way to think about it isthat it's basically a
percentage of time that anemployee works.
So let's say you have a 40-hourwork week, which is very common
(03:42):
for companies across the U.
If a physician's working 40hours in a 40-hour work week,
then your FTE is going to be a1.0.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You lying, hold on.
So just so we clear, likereally.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Like 40 hours.
40 hours according to companies, yes, what?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Because I know, and I'm not even making light, like
I know, like on average, like weare putting in at least 60
hours, 50 to 60 hours, and it'slike wait, can I get 1.5 FTE?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right, I know.
No, I completely understand thediscrepancy, um, but yeah, I
seriously didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I did not know it was based off of 40 hour work week
for doctors.
I thought it was based off ofresidency or something or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so a 40-hour work week is fairly
standard.
You might see some variationhere and there, but I would say
most organizations will have a40-hour work week as a standard.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Is there a difference between sorry to cut you off
again, no, that's okay, you justthrew me for a loop there.
I literally thought you weregoing to say 60 hours.
But like, is it the same forclinic versus like someone who's
hospital-based, like ahospitalist versus you know, I
don't know a private, uh, adermatologist who has a a clinic
?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
yes, it would be 40.
It would be based on a 40-hourwork week.
Whether or not people areactually working that amount is
a different story.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yes, so that's what an FTE is.
If you're working 20 hours outof that 40-hour work week, you
would be at a 0.5 FTE, which isbasically 50%, and then 30 hours
would be a 0.75 FTE.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, so those options do exist.
I know that I've heard a lotabout FTE really in the academic
world, mainly because you knowthere's so many attendings or so
many people when they graduate,they go and work in an academic
institution, whatever name itmay be, if it's Ivy League or
whatever academic institution itmay be.
There's always like additionalthings that you may be doing,
(05:45):
right, whether you're going tobe a program director for
something or you're going to bea part of some organization or
some committee or something.
And I always hear like, well,I'm not going to be like 1.0 FTE
, I may be like 0.8 FTE and thenthe rest, the other 20%, would
be based off of me writinggrants or me being a part of
this organization or me startinga podcast or whatever it may be
(06:07):
that negotiation that occurswith a hospital.
So for me, it's something thatI normally heard or hear about
within the academic realm.
Does this exist, like incommunity based situations?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Absolutely yes.
It would probably be easiest todescribe it as an HR type of
term, so that there'sstandardization for employment
across the organization.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Got you Okay.
So I found this reallyinteresting because I think that
, as residents, when we graduate, the number one thing that
we're thinking about is look, wewant to get a job, we're going
to work, but I think, more andmore, this generation I'm
talking about Gen Zs talkingabout Gen.
Yers, you know they're moreinterested in having that
balance, which I think we allneed to be concerned about.
So I've seen a lot more doctorsstart to ask hey, is this
(07:07):
position amenable to less than1.0?
Which in my generation I'm notused to asking.
My wife asked that when shecame out of residency, when we
were looking at a job I workedat this one job for locums and
then we say you know what?
We want to work here full time.
I wanted to work there fulltime.
And then my wife was like, well,actually I want to work part
time.
And I was like well, why areyou going to ask them that?
They're going to say no,obviously they're going to say
no, right.
And she's like well, you don'tunderstand.
Like my part-time or, excuse me, my full-time or no.
(07:29):
No, the way how she describedit is is my part-time work is
equivalent to your full-timework as a trauma surgeon.
And I didn't understand ituntil later on down the line
that, wow, like she's just asbusy as I am on a part-time
basis as I am on a full-timebasis.
So talk to us about that,because I didn't think this
existed at all.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yes, I think you'll see part of what you were
talking about earlier about.
You know, I was thinking it wasa 60-hour work week.
If you think about it that way,where if full-time for most
people within your specialty oryour role is 60 hours, to be
(08:13):
able to work part-time meansthat you would have a more
balanced life, an opportunityfor more balance in your life so
you might decrease that 60hours down to 40 hours by taking
a part-time opportunity.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So when companies submit an application with you
guys or I don't know application, but when they say, hey look,
we want you to help us findphysicians to fill this job,
this specialty and so forth, I'massuming the majority of them,
all of them, are like we expectthis to be like a full-time
equivalent, like 1.0, full-timeequivalent, 100% right.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So if a job is posted and says this is a full-time
position, then oftentimes it is.
There's opportunity forfull-time, but you might have
the opportunity to ask, likeyour wife did, could this be a
part-time position?
And it's up to the organization, it's up to the hiring team to
(09:08):
be able to determine what thepossibilities are there.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Here's a tip when looking for your next job,
understand your strengths andweaknesses.
For example, if you've beenpracticing for a while and you
know you have a problem withclosing charts, then it's
important that you find a placethat's going to help.
You have administrative helpRight.
So there are plenty of optionswhen it comes to your career in
medicine.
(09:35):
But, just like every patient isdifferent, every physician has
their own personal definition ofsuccess, and that's where our
sponsor steps in ProviderSolutions and Development
doesn't bring just one answerfor all.
They are recruitment expertsfocusing on who you are before
helping you find what you'remeant to be.
So, whatever you're ready fornext, they'll help you find it
(09:57):
with no quotas, no commissionsto get in the way.
So even if you're looking for amore collegial feel at work or
just heck a more healthierwork-life balance, they can help
find the right fit for you.
So reach out today atinfopsdconnectorg.
Forward slash docs outside thebox.
(10:19):
How often are you seeing thatnowadays where, like you know
they, you know a job or, excuseme, a clinic or a hospital post,
a position, and then say, hey,you know, we're kind of open to
you know, taking less than one,you know, taking a part time
position in this situation Likehow?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
often does that occur ?
I think it is happening moreand more.
I think that a lot oforganizations are recognizing
that people that especiallypeople who are early on in their
careers, um, might, might beseeking a little more, more
balance in their life.
Um, that it's.
There's a need to createflexibility in their schedule,
(11:01):
um.
So I do see organizations, uh,starting to put in their
advertisements open to part-time, um, or open to open to being
at least amenable toconversation more than they
might have in the past.
So, yes, I'm seeing it more andmore.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So I think that oftentimes there's like these
huge disasters that occur orsomething major occurs, that
kind of resets everything right.
So COVID reset everything right.
So a lot of let's be honest, alot of doctors are like, well,
if they're not in critical careor if they're not in ER, or if
they're in a specialty that'sdeemed as non-essential, I think
(11:41):
a lot of them are like this issomething that I've never seen
before.
Right, like, how the hell is myposition considered
non-essential?
And I think it's kind ofchanged the way in which a lot
of doctors look at, one, theiralliance to a position.
Two, making sure that they'reas balanced as possible with
their finances.
And three, thinking about whatdoes full-time employment like,
(12:02):
what does long-term employmentlook like with a company?
And I think all of those thingsare changing and it's fluid.
So I bet you, a lot of peoplenow post-COVID or actually I
shouldn't say post-COVID, butlike you know, we're kind of two
years into COVID now are justlike well, look, I got to do me
at this moment and I got to bevery open and honest with what I
need and what's going to helpme to be, you know, the best,
(12:26):
not just the best physician, butthe best person that's out
there.
So let me ask you a questionwhen should, let's say, you have
a resident or you have anattending who's looking to work
with you guys?
When should this come up in aconversation that, hey, I'm
looking to change positions but,to be honest with you, just
between me and you, I just wantto be less than 1.0.
(12:46):
Is that conversation happeninglike that, on a low low, or they
should be very open and honestand tell you straight up.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I think that it's best to be open and honest from
the beginning, especially ifit's something that you know
might be a deal breaker for you.
There's no need to waste any ofyour own time on something that
might not be a possibility atall.
So I would be very forthcomingto a recruiter, to a hiring
manager, in the earlyconversations about what it is
(13:15):
that you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay.
So let's say you're workingwith me trauma surgeon, I'm
looking for a new position, I'mmoving, you know wherever it may
be and I say, hey look, let'skeep it real.
I'm trying to do this podcastand I'm doing other things.
So I'm looking for like 0.75,right.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
What happens?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
next.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, so, as a recruiter, if you're talking to
me, I'm going to present yourinterests to the hiring team and
I'll include what your FTEinterests are, or what your
schedule interests are, and sayyou know, this has great
background, these are hisqualifications, this is what
(13:51):
he's looking for.
Is this something that we canwork with?
Did?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
it hang up on you when you say that.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
No, Within a few days potentially have a yes or no
answer.
It might be a yes right away orwe'll see what we can do.
Let's talk to him and see.
While we're trying to figure itout, at least have a
conversation.
So that's how I see thisplaying out, and we're seeing it
a lot in different specialtieswhere I haven't historically
(14:22):
myself seen it in the past.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Neurologist recently expressed so neurology is
becoming more open to that, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well, I've seen candidates from neurology.
I've seen candidates frompalliative care, candidates from
urology, just across differentprimary care.
It's very common to dopart-time and hospital medicine
as well, so across differentspecialties, I'm seeing a lot of
interest from candidates.
(14:50):
How?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
about surgery.
In certain surgical specialtiesit is, it could be yeah,
urology was a recent candidate.
We we interviewed okay, so theyget back to you.
They let you know, hey, yeah,we're interested in this.
Let's move forward.
Um, because I I'm glad that youyou clarify that, because I do
think that talking about dealbreakers is very important for
(15:13):
someone who's coming to you andlooking for a specific type of
job, for them to know what'stheir absolute like.
I'm walking away from the tableif I cannot get this For me.
I always thought about that.
This is something.
Once we go through the processof you know interviewing at the
place now probably doinginterviews on you know virtually
, and then when the contractcomes, that's when you start
(15:35):
talking about all thosedifferent things.
So you're saying talk aboutthat even before you get the
contract.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I think it's ideal to have the conversation early on.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh, okay, Okay, All right Now.
So you mentioned like theprimary care specialties you
find that those are to be.
Those are the ones that aremost amenable to part-time work.
So why don't we, before we getinto anything else, why don't
you just like define for uswhat's the difference between
part-time work, locums and thena lot of times people get
confused between part-time work,per diem and locums, like those
(16:06):
three things kind of confusepeople.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah.
So I think with part-timeversus full-time, you'll
actually find some differentdefinitions depending on the
company.
So in my organization this isjust one example Full-time
employee is either a 0.9 FTE orabove, and then anything less
(16:30):
than that would be consideredpart-time and then anything less
than that would be consideredpart-time.
I'd say that you'd see somevariation in that FTE.
Some organizations mightconsider a 0.75 FTE to be
full-time.
So it's always good to ask whatdo you all consider to be
(16:50):
full-time versus part-time?
And one thing that I thinkwould be important for everybody
to know is that full-time andpart-time are guaranteed hours
Like you're guaranteed.
The organization isguaranteeing to you like you'll
have this set number of hours ona weekly or a bi-weekly basis,
whatever the timeframe is.
So that's what differentiatesfull-time and part-time.
(17:11):
With per diem, a per diem jobis an employed position.
You might hear it called PRN.
Some people say PRN in exchangefor per diem.
It's an employed position, butthe hours are not guaranteed.
So that's one of the maindifferentiators there.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
It's considered an as-needed basis.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
But you're kind of still employed by that hospital.
You are still employed, that'scorrect, and that is something
that differentiates per diemwith locums.
So oftentimes locums providersare not directly employed by an
organization and locums work, bynature, is temporary work.
You might be providing coveragefor somebody who's on a leave
(18:01):
or providing coverage while anorganization is recruiting for a
full-time employee.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Okay.
So, hey guys, so for the peoplewho are listening, my wife
currently works at a job perdiem, and that's something I
never heard before.
So, basically, when she worksthere just like you said, sarah,
like her hours aren'tguaranteed, but they ask her
like a month in advance, twomonths in advance, three months
in advance, what can you cover,what weekends can you cover?
And then she works that weekend, but she is employed, but she
(18:31):
doesn't get any benefits exceptfor like the 401k.
But if she goes above a certainamount of hours, then they kind
of consider her to be apart-time employee and she may
qualify for like health benefits, like you know, healthcare or
what have you.
She hasn't gotten to that levelyet, but there's a provision at
this specific job that you know, if she provides a certain
(18:53):
amount of hours, she getshealthcare, she gets CME, she
gets certain other benefits, butit would be at a part-time rate
and so forth.
I mean at this point, though,when she finishes, though she
gets, you know she's W-2, likeshe gets at the end of the year
a huge W-2 and you know she'sconsidered an employee, but they
can't tell her hey, you know,we have a physician shortage, we
(19:14):
need you to work and you'regoing to work like they can't
tell her to do that, whereaswith locums, you know which we
prefer locums is more of a hey,you know, like we want to hire
you for your services and you'regoing to work with us in this
type of fashion A lot of times.
The hospital doesn't providemedical malpractice, they just
pay a rate.
And the hospital doesn'tprovide medical malpractice,
(19:37):
they just pay a rate, and thenthat rate is what the physician
receives and in that rate andthat total amount, that's what
the physician is supposed to useto pay for their medical
malpractice, their 401k, anyother benefit that you would
think an employed doctor issupposed to use that rate on a
per hour basis is supposed tohopefully cover that.
So that's kind of what we do.
We do ReneWork, works per diem,I work 100% locums and I think
(19:57):
that, depending on where youlive, depending on what your
specialty is, it kind of dependson what you want.
But I think a lot of peopledon't understand those
differences and don't even knowthat those differences exist.
So question then let's talkabout the benefits, though.
So between let's talk CME, pay,time off I'm looking at my list
other benefits out there,salary.
(20:17):
What's the difference?
Part-time, full-time, per diemhow does all that stuff work?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, this is a great point and something that you'll
definitely want to clarify withorganizations as you are
exploring differentopportunities.
I would say that for anythingless than a 1.0 FTE, you're
going to want to confirm whatthe benefits are.
Things such as CME and paidtime away are going to be
(20:45):
prorated, oftentimes based onthe FTE that you have.
So if you have a 0.5 FTE thatyou're working, you might get
half of the CME or half of thepaid time away that a full-time
employee might be earning intheir work.
So those are a couple of thingsthat are prorated.
(21:06):
I would say check on healthcarebenefits.
What does eligibility look like?
You might not be eligible ifyou're below a 0.5 FTE for
healthcare benefits.
So you want to check to seewhen can I become eligible for
healthcare benefits?
And also, how does the FTEaffect the premiums, because you
(21:29):
might pay a slightly higherpremium for healthcare benefits
based on your FTE.
Those are definitely somethings I check in on.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I've seen that.
I've seen people do that wherethey have to pay higher premiums
.
But, folks, the reason I'mbringing this up and I should
have mentioned this in earlier,that's my bad as a host is
there's a Medscape report thatcame out this year.
It's the Medscape PhysicianLifestyle and Happiness Report
2022.
Not all of you guys feel intothis, but there's a large
(21:58):
portion that do so.
55% of physicians would take apay cut to have a better
work-life balance.
I ain't say that.
That's what that study says.
That report says that.
So we got to go with thenumbers.
So a lot of people out there, alot of professionals out there,
are interested in learning tokind of maybe pull back and be
(22:19):
open and honest about what theyreally want in terms of their
work style if it means cutting,you know, a portion of their
salary.
So you know, I'm interested.
Have you ever seen any negativeeffects from any employers
finding out that a doctor islooking for part-time work?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'd say that the only negative that I can think of
are when it's not a possibility.
If for some reasonoperationally they're not able
to accommodate a request likethat, in that case if it's truly
a deal breaker for a candidateto have a part-time position,
then that opportunity might notbe the right fit.
(22:57):
So that, I would say, is thebiggest negative that I could
foresee.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Is there lingo that hospitals are using or an
employer may be using, so thatyou know if something is
negotiable or not negotiable inthe actual job description?
Or is it just the devil's inthe details?
You just got to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
You just got to ask, I would say, because even a job
advertisement, something that'sposted online, it may not say
explicitly we're open topart-time, but they might
actually be open to it.
So I would always, always ask.
It never hurts.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Now in terms of writing a cover letter because I
know you mentioned that it'sreally nice if a doctor has
their CV and possibly a coverletter, but I just want to ask
you like is doctors?
Are doctors really stillwriting cover letters?
I feel like this is like an oldrelic.
Is that still necessary?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It is not a necessity .
Oftentimes we just get CVsthrough application portals or
emailed to us, but I would say alot.
I do see a lot of cover lettersand it's always refreshing to
see it because I think it's agreat way for somebody to
explain a little bit about theirbackground and what they're
interested in.
I would say, the most commonlywhat I see is an email
(24:12):
introduction, just a you know,attachment of the email.
But also, you know, here's alittle bit about who I am and
why I'm interested in thisopportunity that caught my eye.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
How long should a cover letter be?
Like two pages, one page?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Oh no, I don't think it needs to be that long.
Even just a few sentences itcould suffice.
But I think most commonly Iwould see a paragraph.
Yeah, so short and sweet.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Okay, all right, I like it.
So.
Okay, we were talking about itfrom the perspective of young
doctors, young folks, youngnurses, whoever's coming in,
everybody who's coming in,they're young.
But, like you know, I guesstechnically I can say it now I'm
10 years deep.
I guess I'm officiallymid-career.
What about mid-career doctors,mid-career healthcare
professionals?
What's the driving force forthem seeking less than 1.0?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Do you even see that at all?
I do.
I think across the board I seeit People coming right out of
residency, fellowship people,mid-career, but also late career
people seeking less than 1.0.
And I would say for themid-career folks, what I'm
seeing most commonly arebalancing home life with work
(25:28):
life and oftentimes there arechildren involved, especially if
there are two physician spouses.
That happens a lot.
Where actually happened fairlyrecently with a candidate I was
speaking with two of themactually where they said we have
kids and there just needs to bea little bit more of a balance.
(25:49):
We can't both be working fulltime.
So that is something I seequite often.
And also people who want to,people who want to pursue other
things outside of clinical work.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
They want to be docs outside the box.
You can say it, sarah, come onnow.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
A hundred percent.
They might want to have theirown podcast.
They might want.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
You know, there are lots of things.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Some people want to teach, some people want to do
administrative work.
So just extra time that theycan have to pursue other
interests of theirs.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, just as an anecdote.
Folks, that's kind of how meand Renee live.
We have our kids center at thecenter of our life and obviously
our relationship is at thecenter of our life also.
I didn't realize it initially,but Renee said she wanted to be
part-time mainly because we hadjust recently gotten married.
We had been dating longdistance for several years
(26:43):
through residency and fellowship, so this is the first time that
we were actually getting toreally know each other and learn
to live with each other.
And being in a household where,you know, full-time OB,
full-time trauma, we would havebeen like this right, just kind
of like sliding doors past eachother high and by, and I don't
know if that would have led tolike a really strong
relationship in the beginning.
So she asked for a part-timegig.
(27:04):
They obliged her and then, youknow, when it was time to have
kids and then take care of kids,you know we made a pact also
which is the children willalways have a parent with them,
no matter what.
So the way how it works is whenshe is working, I don't work.
(27:24):
When I am working, she doesn'twork, and it could be a little
bit hard to manage.
Sometimes the calendars don'tnecessarily, you know, correlate
, and sometimes there'sliterally a situation where I'm
coming home that same day from alocums that's four hours away
and as soon as I get there she'swaiting there with the kid and
(27:44):
then she runs off to her perdiem job or wherever it may be,
and then she gets in her car andleaves.
We don't like those, but thoseare few and far between, but
it's a lifestyle that we bothappreciate.
It's a lifestyle that we feelreally comfortable about and
just want people to know thatthere's so many different ways
that you can skin a cat.
There's so many different waysthat you can live your life,
balance your life, balance yourcareer and be happy all at the
(28:07):
same time.
Because it's not just me sayingthis, you can see by this
Medscape article, medscapereport, that 55% would take a
pay cut and that also means, youknow, possibly cutting other
benefits, you know, in order tohave a better work-life balance.
So, sarah, this was great.
Thank you so much for teachingus about the ability to get less
(28:27):
than 1.0 FTE.
If folks want to learn moreabout you, if they want to
contact you so you can help themstart this process of maybe
leaving one job and going toanother job or just looking for
a job in general.
How do they get in contact withyou?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, email works great and wealso have a website as well.
Would it be OK if I just rambleit all off, or Would?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
it be okay if I just ramble it all off.
Yeah, so I'm sure the websitewill put in the show notes.
So should people contact youdirectly or should they just go
straight through the show notesand go through?
Oh, yeah, okay.
So, folks, we're going to goahead, please.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
The show notes sound great and my email address is my
first name dot.
Last name Sarah SARAH dot.
Ledter.
L-e-d-b-e-t-t-e-r atpsdrecruitorg.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Sarah, this was dope.
Thank you again for coming on.
For those people who arestarting their whatever
positions, they are in residencyor if you're just recently just
out, make sure you check outProvider Solutions and
Development.
They're going to take you allthe way, from step A to step Z,
to help you find a job, figureout what your deal breakers are,
educate you.
They do all of that and that'swhy we team up with them with
(29:41):
Docs Outside the Box.
We are going to catch you guyson the next one.
Y'all Peace, hey guys.
Thanks again for listening aswell as supporting Docs Outside
the Box.
Listen, this show is producedby Darko Media Group and the
dope audio experience is editedby the one.
The only, christian Parry, alsoknown as your podcast pal,
(30:04):
links to him in the show notes.
Listen, this is Dr Nii, the DocOutside the Box.
I'll catch you on the next one.
Peace.
Hey you, yeah you, the one listening to this
podcast right now.
I'm guessing you tune into DocsOutside the Box because taking
control of your career is reallyimportant to you.
Now our sponsor ProviderSolutions and Development.
They have a team of expertsthat are ready to guide docs,
just like you, through today'sjob landscape.
They've also got exclusiveaccess to hundreds of positions
(00:24):
nationwide.
So whether you're looking todive deeper into your specialty
work or let's keep it realyou're trying to find a
healthier work-life balance,it's important to start the
conversation with them right now.
Contact them atinfopsdconnectorg.
Forward slash docs outside thebox dot org.
(00:50):
Forward slash docs outside thebox.
All right, sarah Ledbetter, youare the physician recruitment
manager at Provider Solutionsand Development.
What's good how you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Great, how about yourself?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm doing excellent.
It is July when we arerecording this.
Obviously, this is a veryinteresting time for folks who
are coming into residency, aswell as those third years, maybe
even chief residents who arebeginning their foray into their
chief year of residency, butalso, at the same time, this is
the perfect time for them tostart looking for what they're
going to be doing afterwards.
Also, we got some doctors whohave just finished residency,
(01:22):
just finished fellowship, andmaybe they are trying to figure
out what to do next with theirlife, with their career.
So we got you on here to talkabout choosing the right type of
full-time employment, and whatI mean by that is are you going
to be a full-time doc?
Are you going to be a part-timedoc?
Will you do locums?
And I think that when it comesdown to looking for a position,
(01:43):
I think most people who arelooking for a position always
have in mind that that job, thathospital, that clinic, that
private practice is alwayslooking for someone to be
completely, fully employed.
You're here to debunk thattheory.
So, before we jump into that,why don't you just introduce
yourself and then we'll go rightinto it?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yes, thank you so much.
My name is Sarah Ledbetter.
I'm a recruitment manager forProvider Solutions and
Development and we providerecruitment services to dozens
of healthcare organizationsacross the country and we
recruit for hundreds of jobopportunities across most
specialties.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Even trauma surgery.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
At some point I'm sure we have, if not right now.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Because a brother may need a job yo.
So I was going to make sure Icould at least get a job with
you guys.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, I've been a physician and provider recruiter
for nearly 10 years, primarilyin Washington state, and I'm
really excited to be joining youhere today to talk about some
of the trends we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay.
So listen, you wrote a journalarticle talking about what
people need to know aboutbecoming a part-time physician.
If you go to this article, guys, there's even like there's two
gentlemen there.
They're chilling, they'rehaving a hot chai tea or
whatever.
They're having something,they're getting together and
having a good time, and I thinkthat a lot of people nowadays
are more concerned about notjust being an excellent provider
(03:04):
, an excellent physician, butalso, at the same time, they
want to have a dope life, theywant to have a great lifestyle.
Let's talk about this 1.0 FTE,full-time equivalent.
Talk to us about what thatmeans, and then the different
types of employment type models.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I think that's a great place to start, because
we'll be using that phrase, fte,a lot.
Fte stands for full-timeequivalent and I think the
easiest way to think about it isthat it's basically a
percentage of time that anemployee works.
So let's say you have a 40-hourwork week, which is very common
(03:42):
for companies across the U.
If a physician's working 40hours in a 40-hour work week,
then your FTE is going to be a1.0.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You lying, hold on.
So just so we clear, likereally.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Like 40 hours.
40 hours according to companies, yes, what?
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Because I know, and I'm not even making light, like
I know, like on average, like weare putting in at least 60
hours, 50 to 60 hours, and it'slike wait, can I get 1.5 FTE?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right, I know.
No, I completely understand thediscrepancy, um, but yeah, I
seriously didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I did not know it was based off of 40 hour work week
for doctors.
I thought it was based off ofresidency or something or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so a 40-hour work week is fairly
standard.
You might see some variationhere and there, but I would say
most organizations will have a40-hour work week as a standard.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Is there a difference between sorry to cut you off
again, no, that's okay, you justthrew me for a loop there.
I literally thought you weregoing to say 60 hours.
But like, is it the same forclinic versus like someone who's
hospital-based, like ahospitalist versus you know, I
don't know a private, uh, adermatologist who has a a clinic
?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
yes, it would be 40.
It would be based on a 40-hourwork week.
Whether or not people areactually working that amount is
a different story.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yes, so that's what an FTE is.
If you're working 20 hours outof that 40-hour work week, you
would be at a 0.5 FTE, which isbasically 50%, and then 30 hours
would be a 0.75 FTE.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, so those options do exist.
I know that I've heard a lotabout FTE really in the academic
world, mainly because you knowthere's so many attendings or so
many people when they graduate,they go and work in an academic
institution, whatever name itmay be, if it's Ivy League or
whatever academic institution itmay be.
There's always like additionalthings that you may be doing,
(05:45):
right, whether you're going tobe a program director for
something or you're going to bea part of some organization or
some committee or something.
And I always hear like, well,I'm not going to be like 1.0 FTE
, I may be like 0.8 FTE and thenthe rest, the other 20%, would
be based off of me writinggrants or me being a part of
this organization or me startinga podcast or whatever it may be
(06:07):
that negotiation that occurswith a hospital.
So for me, it's something thatI normally heard or hear about
within the academic realm.
Does this exist, like incommunity based situations?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Absolutely yes.
It would probably be easiest todescribe it as an HR type of
term, so that there'sstandardization for employment
across the organization.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Got you Okay.
So I found this reallyinteresting because I think that
, as residents, when we graduate, the number one thing that
we're thinking about is look, wewant to get a job, we're going
to work, but I think, more andmore, this generation I'm
talking about Gen Zs talkingabout Gen.
Yers, you know they're moreinterested in having that
balance, which I think we allneed to be concerned about.
So I've seen a lot more doctorsstart to ask hey, is this
(07:07):
position amenable to less than1.0?
Which in my generation I'm notused to asking.
My wife asked that when shecame out of residency, when we
were looking at a job I workedat this one job for locums and
then we say you know what?
We want to work here full time.
I wanted to work there fulltime.
And then my wife was like, well,actually I want to work part
time.
And I was like well, why areyou going to ask them that?
They're going to say no,obviously they're going to say
no, right.
And she's like well, you don'tunderstand.
Like my part-time or, excuse me, my full-time or no.
(07:29):
No, the way how she describedit is is my part-time work is
equivalent to your full-timework as a trauma surgeon.
And I didn't understand ituntil later on down the line
that, wow, like she's just asbusy as I am on a part-time
basis as I am on a full-timebasis.
So talk to us about that,because I didn't think this
existed at all.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yes, I think you'll see part of what you were
talking about earlier about.
You know, I was thinking it wasa 60-hour work week.
If you think about it that way,where if full-time for most
people within your specialty oryour role is 60 hours, to be
(08:13):
able to work part-time meansthat you would have a more
balanced life, an opportunityfor more balance in your life so
you might decrease that 60hours down to 40 hours by taking
a part-time opportunity.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So when companies submit an application with you
guys or I don't know application, but when they say, hey look,
we want you to help us findphysicians to fill this job,
this specialty and so forth, I'massuming the majority of them,
all of them, are like we expectthis to be like a full-time
equivalent, like 1.0, full-timeequivalent, 100% right.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So if a job is posted and says this is a full-time
position, then oftentimes it is.
There's opportunity forfull-time, but you might have
the opportunity to ask, likeyour wife did, could this be a
part-time position?
And it's up to the organization, it's up to the hiring team to
(09:08):
be able to determine what thepossibilities are there.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Here's a tip when looking for your next job,
understand your strengths andweaknesses.
For example, if you've beenpracticing for a while and you
know you have a problem withclosing charts, then it's
important that you find a placethat's going to help.
You have administrative helpRight.
So there are plenty of optionswhen it comes to your career in
medicine.
(09:35):
But, just like every patient isdifferent, every physician has
their own personal definition ofsuccess, and that's where our
sponsor steps in ProviderSolutions and Development
doesn't bring just one answerfor all.
They are recruitment expertsfocusing on who you are before
helping you find what you'remeant to be.
So, whatever you're ready fornext, they'll help you find it
(09:57):
with no quotas, no commissionsto get in the way.
So even if you're looking for amore collegial feel at work or
just heck a more healthierwork-life balance, they can help
find the right fit for you.
So reach out today atinfopsdconnectorg.
Forward slash docs outside thebox.
(10:19):
How often are you seeing thatnowadays where, like you know
they, you know a job or, excuseme, a clinic or a hospital post,
a position, and then say, hey,you know, we're kind of open to
you know, taking less than one,you know, taking a part time
position in this situation Likehow?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
often does that occur ?
I think it is happening moreand more.
I think that a lot oforganizations are recognizing
that people that especiallypeople who are early on in their
careers, um, might, might beseeking a little more, more
balance in their life.
Um, that it's.
There's a need to createflexibility in their schedule,
(11:01):
um.
So I do see organizations, uh,starting to put in their
advertisements open to part-time, um, or open to open to being
at least amenable toconversation more than they
might have in the past.
So, yes, I'm seeing it more andmore.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So I think that oftentimes there's like these
huge disasters that occur orsomething major occurs, that
kind of resets everything right.
So COVID reset everything right.
So a lot of let's be honest, alot of doctors are like, well,
if they're not in critical careor if they're not in ER, or if
they're in a specialty that'sdeemed as non-essential, I think
(11:41):
a lot of them are like this issomething that I've never seen
before.
Right, like, how the hell is myposition considered
non-essential?
And I think it's kind ofchanged the way in which a lot
of doctors look at, one, theiralliance to a position.
Two, making sure that they'reas balanced as possible with
their finances.
And three, thinking about whatdoes full-time employment like,
(12:02):
what does long-term employmentlook like with a company?
And I think all of those thingsare changing and it's fluid.
So I bet you, a lot of peoplenow post-COVID or actually I
shouldn't say post-COVID, butlike you know, we're kind of two
years into COVID now are justlike well, look, I got to do me
at this moment and I got to bevery open and honest with what I
need and what's going to helpme to be, you know, the best,
(12:26):
not just the best physician, butthe best person that's out
there.
So let me ask you a questionwhen should, let's say, you have
a resident or you have anattending who's looking to work
with you guys?
When should this come up in aconversation that, hey, I'm
looking to change positions but,to be honest with you, just
between me and you, I just wantto be less than 1.0.
(12:46):
Is that conversation happeninglike that, on a low low, or they
should be very open and honestand tell you straight up.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I think that it's best to be open and honest from
the beginning, especially ifit's something that you know
might be a deal breaker for you.
There's no need to waste any ofyour own time on something that
might not be a possibility atall.
So I would be very forthcomingto a recruiter, to a hiring
manager, in the earlyconversations about what it is
(13:15):
that you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay.
So let's say you're workingwith me trauma surgeon, I'm
looking for a new position, I'mmoving, you know wherever it may
be and I say, hey look, let'skeep it real.
I'm trying to do this podcastand I'm doing other things.
So I'm looking for like 0.75,right.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
What happens?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
next.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, so, as a recruiter, if you're talking to
me, I'm going to present yourinterests to the hiring team and
I'll include what your FTEinterests are, or what your
schedule interests are, and sayyou know, this has great
background, these are hisqualifications, this is what
(13:51):
he's looking for.
Is this something that we canwork with?
Did?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
it hang up on you when you say that.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
No, Within a few days potentially have a yes or no
answer.
It might be a yes right away orwe'll see what we can do.
Let's talk to him and see.
While we're trying to figure itout, at least have a
conversation.
So that's how I see thisplaying out, and we're seeing it
a lot in different specialtieswhere I haven't historically
(14:22):
myself seen it in the past.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Neurologist recently expressed so neurology is
becoming more open to that, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well, I've seen candidates from neurology.
I've seen candidates frompalliative care, candidates from
urology, just across differentprimary care.
It's very common to dopart-time and hospital medicine
as well, so across differentspecialties, I'm seeing a lot of
interest from candidates.
(14:50):
How?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
about surgery.
In certain surgical specialtiesit is, it could be yeah,
urology was a recent candidate.
We we interviewed okay, so theyget back to you.
They let you know, hey, yeah,we're interested in this.
Let's move forward.
Um, because I I'm glad that youyou clarify that, because I do
think that talking about dealbreakers is very important for
(15:13):
someone who's coming to you andlooking for a specific type of
job, for them to know what'stheir absolute like.
I'm walking away from the tableif I cannot get this For me.
I always thought about that.
This is something.
Once we go through the processof you know interviewing at the
place now probably doinginterviews on you know virtually
, and then when the contractcomes, that's when you start
(15:35):
talking about all thosedifferent things.
So you're saying talk aboutthat even before you get the
contract.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I think it's ideal to have the conversation early on.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh, okay, Okay, All right Now.
So you mentioned like theprimary care specialties you
find that those are to be.
Those are the ones that aremost amenable to part-time work.
So why don't we, before we getinto anything else, why don't
you just like define for uswhat's the difference between
part-time work, locums and thena lot of times people get
confused between part-time work,per diem and locums, like those
(16:06):
three things kind of confusepeople.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah.
So I think with part-timeversus full-time, you'll
actually find some differentdefinitions depending on the
company.
So in my organization this isjust one example Full-time
employee is either a 0.9 FTE orabove, and then anything less
(16:30):
than that would be consideredpart-time and then anything less
than that would be consideredpart-time.
I'd say that you'd see somevariation in that FTE.
Some organizations mightconsider a 0.75 FTE to be
full-time.
So it's always good to ask whatdo you all consider to be
(16:50):
full-time versus part-time?
And one thing that I thinkwould be important for everybody
to know is that full-time andpart-time are guaranteed hours
Like you're guaranteed.
The organization isguaranteeing to you like you'll
have this set number of hours ona weekly or a bi-weekly basis,
whatever the timeframe is.
So that's what differentiatesfull-time and part-time.
(17:11):
With per diem, a per diem jobis an employed position.
You might hear it called PRN.
Some people say PRN in exchangefor per diem.
It's an employed position, butthe hours are not guaranteed.
So that's one of the maindifferentiators there.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
It's considered an as-needed basis.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
But you're kind of still employed by that hospital.
You are still employed, that'scorrect, and that is something
that differentiates per diemwith locums.
So oftentimes locums providersare not directly employed by an
organization and locums work, bynature, is temporary work.
You might be providing coveragefor somebody who's on a leave
(18:01):
or providing coverage while anorganization is recruiting for a
full-time employee.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Okay.
So, hey guys, so for the peoplewho are listening, my wife
currently works at a job perdiem, and that's something I
never heard before.
So, basically, when she worksthere just like you said, sarah,
like her hours aren'tguaranteed, but they ask her
like a month in advance, twomonths in advance, three months
in advance, what can you cover,what weekends can you cover?
And then she works that weekend, but she is employed, but she
(18:31):
doesn't get any benefits exceptfor like the 401k.
But if she goes above a certainamount of hours, then they kind
of consider her to be apart-time employee and she may
qualify for like health benefits, like you know, healthcare or
what have you.
She hasn't gotten to that levelyet, but there's a provision at
this specific job that you know, if she provides a certain
(18:53):
amount of hours, she getshealthcare, she gets CME, she
gets certain other benefits, butit would be at a part-time rate
and so forth.
I mean at this point, though,when she finishes, though she
gets, you know she's W-2, likeshe gets at the end of the year
a huge W-2 and you know she'sconsidered an employee, but they
can't tell her hey, you know,we have a physician shortage, we
(19:14):
need you to work and you'regoing to work like they can't
tell her to do that, whereaswith locums, you know which we
prefer locums is more of a hey,you know, like we want to hire
you for your services and you'regoing to work with us in this
type of fashion A lot of times.
The hospital doesn't providemedical malpractice, they just
pay a rate.
And the hospital doesn'tprovide medical malpractice,
(19:37):
they just pay a rate, and thenthat rate is what the physician
receives and in that rate andthat total amount, that's what
the physician is supposed to useto pay for their medical
malpractice, their 401k, anyother benefit that you would
think an employed doctor issupposed to use that rate on a
per hour basis is supposed tohopefully cover that.
So that's kind of what we do.
We do ReneWork, works per diem,I work 100% locums and I think
(19:57):
that, depending on where youlive, depending on what your
specialty is, it kind of dependson what you want.
But I think a lot of peopledon't understand those
differences and don't even knowthat those differences exist.
So question then let's talkabout the benefits, though.
So between let's talk CME, pay,time off I'm looking at my list
other benefits out there,salary.
(20:17):
What's the difference?
Part-time, full-time, per diemhow does all that stuff work?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, this is a great point and something that you'll
definitely want to clarify withorganizations as you are
exploring differentopportunities.
I would say that for anythingless than a 1.0 FTE, you're
going to want to confirm whatthe benefits are.
Things such as CME and paidtime away are going to be
(20:45):
prorated, oftentimes based onthe FTE that you have.
So if you have a 0.5 FTE thatyou're working, you might get
half of the CME or half of thepaid time away that a full-time
employee might be earning intheir work.
So those are a couple of thingsthat are prorated.
(21:06):
I would say check on healthcarebenefits.
What does eligibility look like?
You might not be eligible ifyou're below a 0.5 FTE for
healthcare benefits.
So you want to check to seewhen can I become eligible for
healthcare benefits?
And also, how does the FTEaffect the premiums, because you
(21:29):
might pay a slightly higherpremium for healthcare benefits
based on your FTE.
Those are definitely somethings I check in on.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I've seen that.
I've seen people do that wherethey have to pay higher premiums
.
But, folks, the reason I'mbringing this up and I should
have mentioned this in earlier,that's my bad as a host is
there's a Medscape report thatcame out this year.
It's the Medscape PhysicianLifestyle and Happiness Report
2022.
Not all of you guys feel intothis, but there's a large
(21:58):
portion that do so.
55% of physicians would take apay cut to have a better
work-life balance.
I ain't say that.
That's what that study says.
That report says that.
So we got to go with thenumbers.
So a lot of people out there, alot of professionals out there,
are interested in learning tokind of maybe pull back and be
(22:19):
open and honest about what theyreally want in terms of their
work style if it means cutting,you know, a portion of their
salary.
So you know, I'm interested.
Have you ever seen any negativeeffects from any employers
finding out that a doctor islooking for part-time work?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'd say that the only negative that I can think of
are when it's not a possibility.
If for some reasonoperationally they're not able
to accommodate a request likethat, in that case if it's truly
a deal breaker for a candidateto have a part-time position,
then that opportunity might notbe the right fit.
(22:57):
So that, I would say, is thebiggest negative that I could
foresee.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Is there lingo that hospitals are using or an
employer may be using, so thatyou know if something is
negotiable or not negotiable inthe actual job description?
Or is it just the devil's inthe details?
You just got to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
You just got to ask, I would say, because even a job
advertisement, something that'sposted online, it may not say
explicitly we're open topart-time, but they might
actually be open to it.
So I would always, always ask.
It never hurts.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Now in terms of writing a cover letter because I
know you mentioned that it'sreally nice if a doctor has
their CV and possibly a coverletter, but I just want to ask
you like is doctors?
Are doctors really stillwriting cover letters?
I feel like this is like an oldrelic.
Is that still necessary?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It is not a necessity .
Oftentimes we just get CVsthrough application portals or
emailed to us, but I would say alot.
I do see a lot of cover lettersand it's always refreshing to
see it because I think it's agreat way for somebody to
explain a little bit about theirbackground and what they're
interested in.
I would say, the most commonlywhat I see is an email
(24:12):
introduction, just a you know,attachment of the email.
But also, you know, here's alittle bit about who I am and
why I'm interested in thisopportunity that caught my eye.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
How long should a cover letter be?
Like two pages, one page?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Oh no, I don't think it needs to be that long.
Even just a few sentences itcould suffice.
But I think most commonly Iwould see a paragraph.
Yeah, so short and sweet.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Okay, all right, I like it.
So.
Okay, we were talking about itfrom the perspective of young
doctors, young folks, youngnurses, whoever's coming in,
everybody who's coming in,they're young.
But, like you know, I guesstechnically I can say it now I'm
10 years deep.
I guess I'm officiallymid-career.
What about mid-career doctors,mid-career healthcare
professionals?
What's the driving force forthem seeking less than 1.0?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Do you even see that at all?
I do.
I think across the board I seeit People coming right out of
residency, fellowship people,mid-career, but also late career
people seeking less than 1.0.
And I would say for themid-career folks, what I'm
seeing most commonly arebalancing home life with work
(25:28):
life and oftentimes there arechildren involved, especially if
there are two physician spouses.
That happens a lot.
Where actually happened fairlyrecently with a candidate I was
speaking with two of themactually where they said we have
kids and there just needs to bea little bit more of a balance.
(25:49):
We can't both be working fulltime.
So that is something I seequite often.
And also people who want to,people who want to pursue other
things outside of clinical work.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
They want to be docs outside the box.
You can say it, sarah, come onnow.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
A hundred percent.
They might want to have theirown podcast.
They might want.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
You know, there are lots of things.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Some people want to teach, some people want to do
administrative work.
So just extra time that theycan have to pursue other
interests of theirs.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, just as an anecdote.
Folks, that's kind of how meand Renee live.
We have our kids center at thecenter of our life and obviously
our relationship is at thecenter of our life also.
I didn't realize it initially,but Renee said she wanted to be
part-time mainly because we hadjust recently gotten married.
We had been dating longdistance for several years
(26:43):
through residency and fellowship, so this is the first time that
we were actually getting toreally know each other and learn
to live with each other.
And being in a household where,you know, full-time OB,
full-time trauma, we would havebeen like this right, just kind
of like sliding doors past eachother high and by, and I don't
know if that would have led tolike a really strong
relationship in the beginning.
So she asked for a part-timegig.
(27:04):
They obliged her and then, youknow, when it was time to have
kids and then take care of kids,you know we made a pact also
which is the children willalways have a parent with them,
no matter what.
So the way how it works is whenshe is working, I don't work.
(27:24):
When I am working, she doesn'twork, and it could be a little
bit hard to manage.
Sometimes the calendars don'tnecessarily, you know, correlate
, and sometimes there'sliterally a situation where I'm
coming home that same day from alocums that's four hours away
and as soon as I get there she'swaiting there with the kid and
(27:44):
then she runs off to her perdiem job or wherever it may be,
and then she gets in her car andleaves.
We don't like those, but thoseare few and far between, but
it's a lifestyle that we bothappreciate.
It's a lifestyle that we feelreally comfortable about and
just want people to know thatthere's so many different ways
that you can skin a cat.
There's so many different waysthat you can live your life,
balance your life, balance yourcareer and be happy all at the
(28:07):
same time.
Because it's not just me sayingthis, you can see by this
Medscape article, medscapereport, that 55% would take a
pay cut and that also means, youknow, possibly cutting other
benefits, you know, in order tohave a better work-life balance.
So, sarah, this was great.
Thank you so much for teachingus about the ability to get less
(28:27):
than 1.0 FTE.
If folks want to learn moreabout you, if they want to
contact you so you can help themstart this process of maybe
leaving one job and going toanother job or just looking for
a job in general.
How do they get in contact withyou?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, email works great and wealso have a website as well.
Would it be OK if I just rambleit all off, or Would?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
it be okay if I just ramble it all off.
Yeah, so I'm sure the websitewill put in the show notes.
So should people contact youdirectly or should they just go
straight through the show notesand go through?
Oh, yeah, okay.
So, folks, we're going to goahead, please.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
The show notes sound great and my email address is my
first name dot.
Last name Sarah SARAH dot.
Ledter.
L-e-d-b-e-t-t-e-r atpsdrecruitorg.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Sarah, this was dope.
Thank you again for coming on.
For those people who arestarting their whatever
positions, they are in residencyor if you're just recently just
out, make sure you check outProvider Solutions and
Development.
They're going to take you allthe way, from step A to step Z,
to help you find a job, figureout what your deal breakers are,
educate you.
They do all of that and that'swhy we team up with them with
(29:41):
Docs Outside the Box.
We are going to catch you guyson the next one.
Y'all Peace, hey guys.
Thanks again for listening aswell as supporting Docs Outside
the Box.
Listen, this show is producedby Darko Media Group and the
dope audio experience is editedby the one.
The only, christian Parry, alsoknown as your podcast pal,
(30:04):
links to him in the show notes.
Listen, this is Dr Nii, the DocOutside the Box.
I'll catch you on the next one.
Peace.
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