April 3, 2025 • 60 mins
The year is 1964, and a brilliant cancer researcher has just been found dead in her New Orleans apartment. The circumstances are bizarre—her right arm completely missing, her torso severely burned, yet the official cause of death is listed as stab wounds. Welcome to the perplexing case of Dr. Mary Sherman.
As we dig into this medical mystery, we uncover a trailblazing woman who shattered glass ceilings in orthopedic surgery and cancer research decades before the feminist movement took hold. Dr. Sherman wasn't just any physician—she chaired prestigious committees, published groundbreaking research, and earned international recognition for her work with radiation and bone cancer. So why would someone want her dead? And why were so many powerful people nervously checking on the investigation's progress?
The threads of this case lead us down unexpected paths: secret cancer research potentially linked to biological weapons development, contaminated polio vaccines, anti-Castro operations, and even possible connections to Lee Harvey Oswald and the Kennedy assassination. We examine a cast of bizarre characters, including David Ferrie—a man with CIA ties, an unfortunate orange wig, and no medical credentials—who somehow became involved with Dr. Sherman's work.
Part detective story, part medical history, this episode explores the dark intersection where cutting-edge science met Cold War espionage in 1960s America. The burns on Dr. Sherman's body suggest exposure to high-voltage radiation, pointing to a laboratory accident rather than a simple homicide. Was her death the result of secret experiments gone wrong? Was she silenced to protect classified research? The case remains officially unsolved, but the evidence suggests something far more complex than a random murder.
Listen as we reconstruct the life and mysterious death of this remarkable doctor, whose brilliance may have led her into dangerous territory. The story continues next week in Part Two, where we'll explore even deeper connections between medicine, politics, and one of America's most notorious moments in history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
welcome.
Thank you.
How are you?
I'm fine.
How are you?
We want to know how you are.
How was your trip?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm good, listen.
Um, right off the bat, we'regonna start with uh, correction
section.
It's not really a correction,it's like you know, we're a
little bit tardy, and by we Imean me, because one of us I
mean me had to go to New Orleans.
I mean, I had to go to NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You guys, she really had to.
She had a poster.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, I had a poster, a research poster, and I won a
little blue ribbon, which was soexciting.
But more than that, I got tobring my daughter and my younger
sissy hello shout out to Emmaand my daughter, savannah, and
um, so when I wasn't learning, Iwas learning on the streets of
Nolens.
So, um, fabulous time, lots oftours of how was the ghost tour
(01:02):
situation yeah, so we went on tolike a voodoo ghost tour
situation.
Yeah, so we went on a voodooghost tour which was walking
through the French Quarter atnight and that was really cool.
But what I really loved was weactually went on a bus tour.
(01:23):
Normally I hate bus tours, butthey let us off to tour
different cemeteries at night.
Yeah, it was like a two-hour bustour.
It was really funny because inthe middle of this like really
macabre, fascinating tour, um,the bus driver was like, okay,
this is the best beignet placein the city.
So then we got out and we allhad our little beignet donuts
and and a hot chocolate and wegot back on the bus but wow, I
(01:43):
mean these cemeteries, you knowhow the water table is super
high in New Orleans and I mean Iknew this and I knew that a lot
of the people were buried aboveground and whatever.
But apparently, if you can'tafford like a mausoleum or like
a little tomb thing mausoleum orlike a a little tomb thing, um,
(02:09):
what they would do is just putlike basically a, basically like
a big old cement cat box, um,but with dirt and turf, and then
they would pack the bodies inthere and then, because new
orleans is hot, wait for the youknow a year and a half for
everything to kind of cook andthen, then they get it out,
crush the bones and then there'smore room for the next person
and then by the time the familydecides, okay, that's enough
(02:30):
already.
Then they put a slab on top.
But apparently our tour guidewas telling us don't look too
closely, because there's likedentures and femurs and eyeballs
and like glass eyeballs andstuff that float to the top,
because you know it gets so manythings in there, not everything
yeah, oh, wow interesting.
Thank you for sharing yeah,you're welcome for that, um, but
(02:56):
I did learn some other stuffthat I mean, I've been to New
Orleans before, but I was like acollege student and all I
really cared about at the timewas what was happening on
Bourbon Street.
So this was a little differentbecause I had my family with me,
um.
But I learned that I don't God,I should have looked this up
beforehand, um, but there wassome time in the late 1800s,
(03:17):
maybe early 1900s, there was adude that um wanted to make some
money, um, so he settled.
He was a French guy, he settledin New Orleans and so he
settled.
He was a french guy, he settledin new orleans and he was
decided he was going to get intothe fur trade business and sell
fur coats for the ladies.
All about why you'd need a furcoat in new orleans, I don't
know, um anyway.
(03:37):
So he wanted to do it cheaply,so he brought with him a bunch
of nutria.
Do you know what nutria?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
are.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
They are.
It sounds like a cereal bar,but they're actually.
Do you ever watch PrincessBride?
Yeah, so they are R-O-U-S'srodents of unusual size.
They are massive rats basicallythat were indigenous to South
America.
So he brought them and he hadthem all in their little cages,
their pens or whatever, but NewOrleans, as we know, is prone to
(04:08):
lots of storms and things.
Anyway, the cages blew over andthe nutria escaped and they did
what rats and bunnies do andthey propagated and so now
they're an invasive species.
What I didn't know I didn't knowthat, but what really found
intriguing, slash, devastating,is that the nutria feed on
(04:30):
grassroots.
So you know, new Orleans iskind of held together by the
swampy grasslands, you knowbetween the ocean and Louisiana,
and these little things willeat, they're feeding off the
roots of these grasses.
So what's happening?
Of course I didn't, I didn'tfact check, but according to my
(04:51):
tour guide, um, you said thatthese nutria are eating
grassroots at a pace of about afootball field and a half an
hour.
And so if you look at um, agoogle map like google earth of
louisiana, you know how wealways learned when we learned
(05:13):
our states, uh, in school, thatlouisiana was an l shape.
It's not an l shape anymore.
The bottom, like the foot ofthe l, is gone.
It's gone, it's gone, munched,it's munched.
I know so they're like.
That's why Louisiana likes toparty and live life today,
because it's going to bereclaimed by the ocean by the
(05:36):
end of the century.
So, yeah, fascinating, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Wow, those little buggers.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That really struck me .
Yeah, I mean, I did, I checkedit out, I did check Google earth
.
Have a look.
I mean it's like a lowercase Linstead of an uppercase L.
I know it's crazy, so sad, andsome of it has to do with, like,
a lot of salt wash from varioushurricanes and whatnot that
also killed the grasslands.
(06:04):
But anyway, sad, sad andpoignant.
Um well, thank you for sharing.
yeah, you're welcome I meanadditionally, I think I gained
10 pounds, ate a lot ofhurricanes, um eight beignets
and you know all the gumbo andjambalaya that a body can take.
(06:26):
So yeah, I'm back.
And you know, when we went, itwas actually hotter in Minnesota
than it was in New Orleans atthe time it was upper 70s, yeah,
and it was like 86 here inMinnesota.
Then when we landed a coupledays ago it was in a snowstorm.
So thanks a lot, minnesota.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, it's been just real.
You know what I was thinkingtoday and my colleague said to
me, I think yesterday umremember that wives tale of
three snows on Robin's back?
Um, I think we've exceededthree.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So I know I sent you a picture of a robin in my
backyard the day I got back.
I was like dude, he's coveredin snow.
You promised me the last time.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I saw him.
I didn't make the wise tale.
Okay, I'm just spreading thegospel.
You got my hopes up, though Iknow I got my own hopes up.
I'm disappointed.
I saw a robin on my walk todayand I thought, sir, where is
spring?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Sir, ma'am, whoever you are, Don't you know your own
wife?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
sir, come on, write to the people, welcome back and
thank you for sharing about yourtravels.
And what else will you besharing with us today?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, since I was in New Orleans, I thought I was
really inspired by, you know,all the woo-woo there and the
history and the rich cultures,and I thought I've got to find a
New Orleans medical story story.
Um, so I, we went to a lot ofmy daughter really likes, like
(08:08):
oddities and, like you know,antiques and things.
So we, we went to a lot ofthese um kind of whole in the
wild shops to kind of look formysterious and wonderful things.
In one of these shops I found abook entitled oh gosh, can I
not remember what it's called?
Oh, dr Mary's Monkey, by EdwardT Haslam, and so I decided to
(08:34):
do a story about this.
So it's called Monkeys, miceand Mary, the Mysterious Murder
of Dr Sherman.
And this will be part one of atwo-pata, because guys buckle up
, this is a wild ride.
I'm buckled, okay, all right.
So, um, any remaining sources?
(08:55):
I mean the majority of what Ipulled for today's episode was
from the book Dr Mary's Monkey,but remaining sources will be
listed in our show notes.
Trigger warning this episodecontains information about the
medical experimentation onanimals which you know many
consider animal abuse.
All right, so a bit about theauthor.
(09:19):
Edward Haslam is the son of anorthopedic surgeon who worked
with Dr Mary Sherman at Tulaneuniversity's medical school.
He recalls instances from hischildhood when his father was
upset by an?
I by the idea that anexperiment was taking place on
the grounds of the U?
S public health servicehospital, and how he tried to
stop it.
Um, haslam's book reflects 20years of investigation into this
(09:41):
case and its connections.
Yeah so, Dr Mary Sherman.
Haslam's book reflects 20 yearsof investigation into this case
and its connections.
Yeah so, dr Mary Sherman.
Let's get into it.
Dr Mary Sherman was found deadon July 21st 1964, in her
apartment in New Orleans.
She was 51 years old.
She lived in an upscaleapartment on Loyola Avenue near
(10:05):
the Ochsner Clinic where sheworked.
The official cause of death wasmultiple stab wounds.
However, the condition of herbody raised far more questions
than answers.
Her body was mutilated andshe'd suffered from severe burns
on parts of her body,particularly around her arms and
upper torso.
(10:25):
Her right arm was missingaltogether.
The nature of the burns waswhat led to widespread
speculation.
Some believed that the burnswere the result of high voltage
radiation or exposure to someform of experimental substance
which aligned with herinvolvement in radiation
research.
Experimental substance which,aligned with her involvement in
(10:46):
radiation research.
The unusual nature of theinjury suggested that it might
not have been a straightforwardhomicide, but instead something
far more complex.
So the basic storyline goes asfollows At about 4 am, a
neighbor detected smoke andcalled the police.
(11:07):
His name was Juan Valdez, and no, it's not the coffee guy.
That was my immediate thought.
Wait, the coffee guy.
So the police checked thebuilding and found a
smoke-filled apartment, and sothey called the fire department
because they couldn't get in dueto the amount of smoke.
So when the firefightersarrived, they removed a smoky
mattress from the apartment.
While searching the apartment,they discovered the badly burned
(11:29):
body of a woman who'd beenstabbed repeatedly.
An investigator from thecoroner's office arrived and
checked the scene.
No murder weapon was found, buta large knife was missing from
the knife rack in the kitchen.
Her body was sent to thecoroner's office where another
doctor, who was a colleague ofhers at the university where she
worked, identified her.
(11:51):
The state's item newspaperreported that homicide
detectives said the front doorto her apartment had been forced
open, her wallet was empty andher 1961 automobile was missing.
Sam Moran, the specialinvestigator for the Orleans
Parish Coroner's Office, saidthat the front door had been
forced open and an unsuccessfulattempt had been made to open a
(12:14):
jewelry box.
The other residents in thebuilding were questioned and
nobody heard anything, exceptfor one resident who heard one
Valdez walking around hisapartment before the police
arrived.
Mary's housekeeper, elminerPeterson, reported that the
burglar alarm in Dr Sherman'sapartment was in the off
position because she wasexpecting visitors from out of
(12:36):
town.
There were no signs of forcedentry and no signs of a struggle
.
There didn't appear to beanything out of place in the
home, so it wasn't ransacked.
It wasn't a burglary gone wrong.
The homicide report wascompleted on October 29, 1964,
about 10 weeks after the policestopped their investigation.
The first half covered thecrime scene and the second half
(12:58):
of the report was dated severaldays later, on November 3, 1964.
Detective Frank Hayward andDetective Robert Townsend and
their supervisor, lieutenantJames Cruby, should have signed
the report, but RobertTownsend's was the only
signature on the document.
The fact that the report was sodelayed and the breach of
protocol due to lack ofsignatures is suspicious.
(13:21):
The report described the sceneand this is gruesome, so trigger
warning.
The body was in a supineposition, both legs were
outstretched and parallel toeach other.
The left arm was outstretchedand, parallel to the left side
of the body, the right side ofthe body, from the waist where
the right shoulder would be,including the entire right arm,
(13:41):
was disintegrated from the fire,yielding the inside organs of
the body.
There was what appeared to be astab wound in the left arm and
also in the inner side of theright leg near the knee.
The body was nude, however,clothing had been placed on top
of the body, mostly covering itfrom just above the pubic area
to the neck.
The mentioned clothes had beenburned completely, while others
(14:06):
were still intact but scorched.
The autopsy was performed by DrSamuels, a pathologist, who
told police that the victim haddied prior to the fire, had not
been raped and was dead beforeher genitals were stabbed.
The coroner's I know Just alittle extra there.
The coroner's Whoa, I know Justa little side.
Yeah, just a little extra there.
(14:28):
The coroner's officials examinedthe clothing that was piled on
top of her body and noted thatmost of the clothes were still
neatly folded when placed on topof the body.
The criminologist observed thatthe clothes were made of a
synthetic material that wouldignite into flame at 500 degrees
Fahrenheit.
At lower temperatures theywould have only smoldered.
(14:49):
So this is interesting.
Apparently the temperatures inthe apartment then didn't reach
500 degrees because the clothesdidn't burn.
So I looked up what it takes Imean, I'm probably on some list
right now what it takes to burna body and according to some
cremation information it takes600 to 2000 degrees for several
(15:14):
hours to burn a body and eventhen there's going to be pieces
of bones like joints and skullfragments and stuff.
Bones do not burn.
Did you know that when a bodyis cremated, like I always
thought, everything just turnedto dust?
It doesn't.
There's still bones and thenthey grind the bones up and
that's when you get the ashes.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I didn't even really think about that um, so I mean,
I only know that because of,like pets that have been
cremated, because I wasexpecting the bag of ashes to
look like ashes and they looklike little fragments of bones.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh, god, oh, I don't want to, oh, okay, well, so
therefore the crime scene didn'tmatch the crime.
It was impossible to to explainthe damage to Mary's right arm
by damage, meaning it wasmissing, and the right side of
her body with the evidence thatwas found in her apartment.
(16:13):
In fact, what if it happenedsomewhere else?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Something definitely must have happened to her
earlier that evening, somethingmore violent than a typical
house fire, in order todisintegrate her entire right
arm and right rib cage yeah itwould take something that and
it's not like this was a workincident and then you just
casually went home without yourfreaking arm on and like going
about your business, before your, your friends or family come to
(16:39):
visit yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
So I mean it would take something that would
vaporize and destroy everything,something high voltage like, I
don't know, a five million voltlinear particle accelerator that
she had access to at work or inthe lab that she worked in.
So what if there was a mishap inthe lab and her death would
(17:02):
have exposed secret researchgoing on there?
The autopsy report noted thatshe died from a stab wound to
the heart.
So what if she had been workingon I don't know, mutating
monkey viruses using radioactiveexposure and suffered a blast
injury from something gone wrong?
(17:22):
What if this didn't kill herand then she was killed by
others in the lab by a stab tothe heart to avoid exposure of
their secret experiments?
They would have then taken herback to her apartment, stacked
some clothes on her and thenstabbed her indiscriminately to
make it look like a psychopathwas involved and then set the
place on fire.
And this is, I mean so theinitial stab wound to her heart,
(17:47):
the um autopsy report noted,happened while she.
That was what killed her.
She was alive when thathappened, but the other stab
wounds and there were multipleall over her body were done
post-mortem.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
So to me something like that I mean makes maybe a
little more does make some sensealso highly irresponsible to
choose.
Let's take her back to herapartment and start it on fire
and hopefully don't killeveryone in the entire building.
Come on, guys right.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So police investigated 150 professional
associates and acquaintances ofMary.
And yet almost half thehomicide report was about
totally irrelevant details andnothing to do with what happened
to Mary between 4.30 pm on July20, 1964, and 4 in the morning
on July 21, 1964, on the nightslash morning of her murder.
(18:40):
For instance, the report talkedabout a peeping Tom who'd been
caught ogling a woman in thesame apartment complex six
months earlier.
He had moved, subsequentlymoved out of town and he had an
alibi for the evening inquestion.
And then there was Jane.
She is a young woman from NewJersey who had the misfortune of
(19:02):
walking past Sherman's buildingaround midnight.
She was described as wearinglike toreador pants and having
short hair.
So, gasp shock, obviously shewas a lesbian.
So yeah.
So they said that she was onher way to a lesbian rendezvous
In the police report a lesbianrendezvous in the French Quarter
(19:25):
.
Oh my God.
So there was more stupid stufflike this in the report.
It seemed like they wereimplying that there must have
been a sexual motive for thekilling, and the report listed
in absolutely excruciatingdetail the place of employment
of each of these incidentalpeople who are irrelevant to the
case.
But yet they didn't mentionMary Sherman's place of
(19:47):
employment?
Why wouldn't they mention thatshe worked for the renowned Dr
Ochsner in his cancer laboratoryat Tulane Medical School?
And what about Juan Valdez?
Was that really his name, Imean?
According to this author, hewas privy to research by Joan
(20:08):
Mellon, who wrote a bookFarewell to Justice, and said
that Juan worked for Clay Shawat the International Trademark
in New Orleans, and he wasconnected to Lee Oswald.
You know Lee Harvey Oswald.
Ever heard of him?
Oh sweet to seewald.
Ever heard of him?
Oh sweet to see.
(20:28):
Have you ever heard of him?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
That was not rhetorical.
No, I don't know.
I don't know If I have.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay, so not one to you.
Didn't see JFK, then it wasn'taround.
Question mark the movie.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Okay, alright, anyway , tell my colleague because she
thinks I'm old and I guess I'mnot.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, no, no, You'd be old if you knew too much about
this.
I would think, so you just madeyourself super youthful.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You hear that, Mallory.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, mallory, take that.
The international trademark isoften mentioned in connection
with Clay Shaw.
He's a New Orleans businessmanwho was the only person
prosecuted in the investigationof President John F Kennedy's
assassination and he wasprosecuted by District Attorney
Jim Garrison.
Shaw, who was the director ofITM, was accused and later
(21:26):
acquitted, of conspiring toassassinate Kennedy.
Haslam also encountered a newsarticle from New Orleans about a
Juan Valadez, who worked forthe CIA for 30 years and is now
retired.
Haslam reported speaking to aNew Orleans police detective
named Frank Hayward whoinvestigated Mary Sherman's
(21:49):
murder, and Frank confided inHaslam that he had wanted to
arrest Juan for Mary's murderbut he didn't have enough
evidence to make the chargesstick.
He also said he couldn'tbelieve the amount of phone
calls he was getting from allover the show the FBI, the
Justice Department, louisianaState Police, police, it went on
and on all these entities thatwere calling him repeatedly to
(22:10):
inquire about any progressinvestigating the mary sherman
murder.
It was almost like somebody wasnervous.
So Frank went on to say thatthere was no central air in the
patio apartments where Mary andJuan lived and their apartments
were opposite, with windows thatopened only to the street in
(22:31):
front of their personalapartment.
So, given the location ofJuan's apartment, there was no
way he would be able to smellthe smoke from Mary Sherman's
fire unless he'd been roamingaround the courtyard of the
patio apartments at 4 AM forsome reason.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Okay, but I'm just thinking um in Minnesota.
When there's wildfires inCanada, I can smell that a
little bit a wildfire, a littlebit bigger versus a mattress.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, and there were people all around Mary's site.
So you imagine these apartmentsare like back to back.
So it's like one side of theapartment faced Street A and all
of those apartments, their onlywindows faced Street A and Mary
faced Street B and all of thoseapartments only had windows
facing Street B.
So how is one guy on theopposite end, who probably would
(23:24):
have been the last one to smellsomething, the only one to
smell something?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I suppose, Then there was an interesting detail from
a police report that MarySherman's apartment had been
burgled I love that word.
I don't it's a terrible word,but I love to say it Burgled a
few months before her murder.
But we'll come back to thatword.
I don't it's a terrible word,but I love to say it Burgled A
few months before her murder.
But we'll come back to thatlater.
Let's learn more about Maryfirst.
So Mary Sherman was consideredabsolutely brilliant by her
(23:55):
medical colleagues.
She rapidly rose to the verytop ranks of the male-dominated
hierarchy in American medicine,specifically in bone and joint
surgery, a field that to thisday has extremely few female
physicians, unless you watch ER.
(24:18):
Self-made, financiallysuccessful and professionally
respected, Dr Sherman was asophisticated and powerful woman
during an era when the futurefeminists of the 1960s were
still watching.
Leave it to Beaver.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, I know.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Leave it to Beaver Nick at Night.
Cool Go you.
Yet the glimpses we see of hervery private personal life show
a complex and sensitive womanwho loves theater, literature,
music, wine, flowers andinternational travel, and who
carried with her some terriblepersonal burdens.
Most of what we know about MarySherman comes from newspaper
(25:00):
articles, the unusual policereport I just described and her
last will and testament.
There are a handful ofinterviews out there that paint
a picture of an unusuallytalented woman who met an
unusually brutal and horribleend.
Mary was born as Mary Stultz inEvanston, illinois, in 1913.
She was one of severaldaughters of a musical voice
(25:21):
coach.
When she was 16 years old, shewent to France for two years to
study at Le Col de M Colneau andlater taught French while
working on her master's degreeat the University of Illinois.
She married a man named ThomasSherman, about whom we know
little, but that's how shebecame Mary Sherman.
She received a Phi Beta Kappamembership due to her graduate
(25:44):
work at the University ofChicago and, side note, the
University of Chicago is anintellectual powerhouse that
rivals Harvard, stanford and anyother Ivy League university.
It was founded with a grantfrom the Rockefeller Foundation
and was modeled after theEuropean Research University
rather than the AmericanTeaching College.
This was done at a time whenthe Rockefeller fortune was
(26:07):
heavily invested in thepharmaceutical industry, and
their sponsorship of biochemicalresearch contributed to the
development of new commercialdrugs.
Today, the University ofChicago remains at the forefront
of genetics and cancer research.
As an outgrowth of thisbiochemical medical research,
the University of Chicago becameone of the first major centers
of nuclear research.
(26:28):
The landmark event of thisnuclear effort was the
construction of the first atomsmasher, a vast nuclear
accelerator hidden undergroundin UC's sports stadium.
In 1937, it produced the firstsustained nuclear reaction.
For a UC physicist, enricoFermi.
(26:50):
This is where Mary Sherman didher postgraduate work.
She was trained at theheadwaters of nuclear,
biochemical and genetic researchin America Before she became
involved in human medicine.
Mary conducted groundbreakingresearch into botanical viruses
that lived in the soil.
Her early articles were soprofound and insightful that
(27:10):
they were frequently quoted inthe 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s,
and although she'd been deceasedfor 30 years, the scientific
citation index reveals that 10medical articles published in
1993 contain references to herscientific writings which were
published between 1947 and 65.
The names of the journals tellthe story of her
(27:31):
state-of-the-art use ofradiation for treatment of bone
cancers, radiology, skeletalradiology, pathologic research,
acta, radiologica,histopathology and bone.
I mean, I just want to get ajournal in the mail called Bone,
just short and sweet.
(27:51):
Anyway.
So I mean her thinking wasgroundbreaking and revolutionary
.
This was a young woman whostudied in France at a time when
Madame Curie's name was thepinnacle of the scientific world
and was one of America's mostpromising minds.
With proper training,encouragement and opportunities,
she could be within strikingdistance of the legendary Curie
herself and potentially becomeone of the most important women
(28:13):
in science.
Perhaps it would be Mary who,at such a young age, had a
deeper understanding of thebasic life of viruses than
anyone before her.
Maybe it would be her who wouldbreak through the cancer
barrier.
The great minds at UC saw herpotential and brought her along
for the ride.
During the 1940s she became anassociate professor of
(28:33):
orthopedic surgery and practicedmedicine at UC Billings
Hospital.
It's not clear when, but thereare allusions to the fact that
Mary's husband took his own lifein the 1940s at some point.
Mary was the only person whomentioned this and I found no
independent corroboration ofthis information.
But her life changed in the1950s.
(28:57):
Her cancer work at theUniversity of Chicago had
attracted the attention of afamous and wealthy doctor who
was the president of theAmerican cancer society.
He was also the president of arenowned medical clinic named
after him.
You know you've made it whenyour clinic is named after you,
and he was the chief of surgeryat Tulane medical school, one of
the most respected medicalschools of the time.
(29:19):
That doctor was Alton Oxner, mdof new Orleans.
Oxner's offer to Dr Sherman wasconsiderable.
She would be a partner in hisclinic, the head of her own
cancer lab, and she could keepher place in the academic side
of medicine and act as anassociate professor at Tulane
Medical School.
Additionally, she would alsohave the personal support of one
(29:42):
of the most politicallypowerful and well-connected
doctors in America, guaranteeingher a constant flow of research
funds.
Dr Ochsner was known for hisstaunch anti-communist stance
and connections to intelligenceagencies.
Some believe his clinic wasactually a front for secret
medical projects aimed atundermining Castro's regime.
(30:06):
A single woman, mary, moved toNew Orleans in 1952 and lived in
a resident on historic StCharles Avenue near the corner
of Louisiana Avenue.
She lived there until her deathin 1964, juggling her jobs at
Tulane and Ochsner's, performingsurgeries at Charity Hospital
and working on the medical staffof several children's hospitals
(30:26):
.
As doctors went, she was alwaysmore comfortable in a lab than
in an operating room.
Her career prospered, one ofthe clear indicators for success
for an orthopedic surgeon isbeing elected to the American
Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.
It takes years, if not decades,and some never make it.
Once in the academy, thesuccess ladder continues.
(30:48):
Bright students are placed oncommittees that create the rules
governing science and ethics.
They establish what'sacceptable and who is accepted.
The brightest of the starschair the committees.
One of the most prestigious isthe pathology committee, which
reviews the state of the art ondiseases, particularly bone
cancers.
Mary Sherman was chairman ofthe Pathology Committee of the
(31:11):
American Academy of OrthopedicSurgeons.
Her position took her allaround the world when it was
necessary to agree on thelanguage that physicians used to
describe and categorize cancersof the bone and soft tissue.
It needed to be re-examined.
Six of the nation's leadingexperts were selected to tackle
the task, and Mary Sherman wasamong them.
(31:31):
When the front page of thenewspaper had the sad task of
announcing her death, itdescribed her as an
internationally known bonespecialist whose main area of
interest was bone cancertreatment and research.
So at this point you may bethinking well, why on earth
would anyone want to murder sucha renowned and well-respected
physician?
Let's talk conspiracies.
(31:54):
In 1967, jim Garrison, the NewOrleans district attorney who
investigated Kennedy'sassassination was interviewed by
Playboy magazine Wow, but itwas like an 18 page article and
it's like one of the mostrevealing articles and that's
kind of a play on words, becausePlayboy can be,
(32:16):
revealing, as we all know, butpeople just get it for the
articles, and in this interview,um garrison claimed that a man
named david ferry had beeninvolved in covert medical
experiments, including theinjection of cancer cells into
unsuspecting individuals as partof a secret research program.
(32:36):
He suggested that theseexperiments were tied to a
larger intelligence operationaimed at developing biological
weapons potentially for use inassassination plots.
Garrison's allegations linkedFerry, dr Mary Sherman and Dr
Alton Ochsner to a clandestinenetwork that sought to engineer
cancer as a tool ofassassination.
(32:57):
While these claims remainhighly controversial, they have
fueled ongoing conspiracytheories surrounding Ferry's
involvement in medical researchand the broader context of Cold
War era covert operations.
So let's talk more about whothis dude, david Ferry, is.
(33:20):
David was born on March 19th1929 in nolens, louisiana.
He grew up in a working-classfamily, though much of his early
life remains shrouded inmystery, with many aspects of
his childhood left unreported orunclear.
He attended loyola interuniversity of new orleans, where
he studied law, but he didn'tcomplete his degree.
Instead, he pursued his passionfor aviation, becoming a flight
(33:45):
instructor and a skilled pilot.
He gained notoriety for flyingsmall planes, an activity that
later drew attention due to hisalleged involvement with the CIA
and anti-Castro operations.
Ferry was linked to anti-CastroCuban exile groups and was
believed to have worked closelywith individuals involved in the
CIA's covert efforts againstFidel Castro.
(34:07):
He was allegedly associatedwith Operation 40, which is a
secret mission aimed atoverthrowing Castro's regime.
Before his involvement inaviation and political
activities, ferry pursuedreligious studies with the
intention of becoming a Catholicpriest.
He initially trained in aseminary but was ultimately
rejected from the priesthood dueto concerns over his unorthodox
(34:29):
beliefs and allegedinappropriate behavior.
Despite the rejection, ferrymaintained a lifelong
fascination with religion, oftenengaging in theological debates
and incorporating religiousthemes into his personal
ideology, and incorporatingreligious themes into his
personal ideology.
His expulsion from the seminarycontributed to the erratic and
(34:50):
controversial trajectory of hislife.
Ferry suffered from a rarecondition that caused severe
hair loss, leaving himcompletely bald and without
eyebrows.
Unfortunately, to compensate,he wore an ill-fitting orange
wig and painted on fake eyebrows.
That gave him a very strikingand unusual appearance, which is
a nice way of putting it.
So if you're curious, just lookup David Ferry on your Google
(35:15):
machine.
It's quite a sight.
His appearance fueledspeculation and intrigue about
his involvement in variousclandestine activities.
Allegations of sexualmisconduct also marred his
personal life.
He was accused of inappropriatebehavior involving young men,
(35:38):
and these accusations led to hisdismissal from Eastern Airlines
, where he had worked as a pilot.
Multiple sources claimed thatFerry had a history of engaging
in questionable activities,including interactions with
underage boys.
While some of these allegationswere dismissed or never fully
prosecuted, they contributed tohis troubled reputation and
further fueled the mysterysurrounding his life.
His erratic behavior and legaltroubles only added to the
(36:00):
suspicion surrounding hisassociation and activities.
One of the most controversialaspects of Ferry's life was his
alleged connection to Lee HarveyOswald, the accused assassin of
President John F Kennedy.
Reports suggest that Ferry knewOswald and had been seen with
him in New Orleans before theassassination, fueling numerous
(36:21):
conspiracy theories.
Ferry was rumored to have hadan interest in medical
experiments, particularly thoserelated to cancer research.
According to some theories, hewas involved in secret medical
projects developing biologicalagents potentially used in the
Cold War and assassination plots.
These claims have been linkedto Judith Ferry Baker, who
(36:42):
asserted that she worked onsecret cancer research projects
alongside Oswald and Ferry.
Ferry and Sherman are believedto have met through their shared
association with Dr AltonOchsner.
Reports suggest that Ferry,despite lacking formal medical
credentials, had access toresearch facilities where
Sherman worked.
His knowledge of biology andalleged role in underground
(37:04):
research may have facilitatedtheir collaboration.
It's alleged that they workedtogether on clandestine projects
aimed at developingcancer-causing viruses as part
of the covert Cold Waroperations.
The unusual circumstances ofSherman's death fueled
speculation about a cover-up andhave linked Ferry to a larger
(37:25):
network of secretive scientificresearch.
Knowing all of this begs thequestion what would motivate an
accomplished medicalprofessional like Mary to risk
her reputation by gettinginvolved in an underground
medical lab with a violentpolitical zealot, with a
criminal record of sexualmisconduct and no medical
credentials?
Was she led there by her ownambitions?
(37:48):
Was there a dark side to her,concealed from public view?
Did more powerful forcesmanipulate her or was a serious
medical problem brewing thatjustified the risk?
To truly understand the strangeand unsettling story behind Dr
Mary's monkey, we must step backinto the world of the 1960s, a
time of intense geopoliticaltension, groundbreaking medical
(38:11):
advancements and deep-seatedgovernment secrecy, and the
Soviet Union locked in a battlefor global dominance.
The Cuban Missile Crisis of1962 brought the world to the
brink of nuclear war,heightening fears about
communist expansion and Sovietinfluence just 90 miles off the
(38:32):
US coast.
This era was characterized bycovert operations, espionage and
scientific experimentation,often conducted under the guise
of national security.
Medical research was rapidlyadvancing, but not always in an
ethical manner.
The polio vaccine had been amajor breakthrough in the 1950s,
but new concerns arose over thecontamination with SV40, a
(38:54):
monkey virus that someresearchers believed would cause
cancer.
At the same time, biologicalwarfare programs were being
explored, with scientistsinvestigating ways to use
disease as a weapon.
Against this backdrop, the USgovernment became obsessed with
eliminating Fidel Castro, cuba'scommunist leader.
Various assassination plots,including the infamous
(39:17):
CIA-backed Operation Mongoose,were devised, many involving
unconventional methods likepoison cigars or toxic pens.
I mean nothing scarier than atoxic pen.
It's like what'd it do?
Like leak anthrax on you?
Like what?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
no, it's reminding me of that um umbrella, from that
other episode where you got himin the back of the knee oh, yeah
, yeah, maybe, yeah, I shouldhave looked that up.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Okay, maybe, with cold war, paranoia fueling
secret experiments and medicalethics taking a backseat to
political strategy, dr sherman'swork and her shocking death
became even more suspicious.
Was she just another scientistor was she part of something far
more dangerous?
While the Cold War fueledpolitical and military tensions,
(40:10):
another battle was being foughtin labs and hospitals the fight
against deadly diseases.
The 1950s and 60s were a goldenage of medical discovery, but
they were also a time of ethicalgray area, where scientific
ambition sometimes outpacedcaution.
One of the most significantbreakthroughs of the time was
the development of the poliovaccine.
(40:31):
Polio had been one of the mostfeared diseases in America,
crippling thousands of childreneach year.
The vaccine developed by DrJonas Salk and later refined by
Dr Albert Sabine, was a triumphof modern medicine, but there
was a dark side to the success.
Some batches of the vaccinewere found to be contaminated
with SV40, a simian virus thathad unknowingly been transmitted
(40:55):
from the monkey kidney cellsused to grow the vaccine.
Years later, scientists debatedwhether SV40 could be linked to
an increased risk of cancer, acontroversy that remains
unsolved.
At the same time, cancerresearch was advancing rapidly.
Radiation therapy andchemotherapy were emerging as
mainstream treatments, butresearchers were still searching
(41:17):
for the key to understandingand possibly preventing cancer
at a cellular level and possiblypreventing cancer at a cellular
level.
This led to secretive andcontroversial projects, some of
which involved high-riskexperiments with viruses and
radiation.
No discussion of this book DrMary's Monkey would be complete
without addressing one of themost infamous and enduring
conspiracy theories in Americanhistory the assassination of
(41:40):
President John F Kennedy.
The events of November 22, 1963, continue to spark debate, with
countless theories challengingthe official story that Lee
Harvey Oswald acted alone.
But what if Oswald's time inNew Orleans and the medical
experiments described in DrMary's Monkey were somehow
connected to a much larger plot?
(42:00):
More on that in a moment moment.
Right now it's time for asounded like a train oh, wow
welcome to the chart notesegment, where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealth care.
Okay, so, um.
(42:21):
When I was scrounging aroundthe curiosities and oddity shops
in New Orleans, I was hoping tofind something a little bit
more spooky, so I couldn't letthis episode go without talking
a little bit about voodoo.
So voodoo has its origins inWest Africa, particularly
(42:43):
amongst the Fon, yu and Yorubapeoples of present-day Benin,
togo, nigeria and Ghana.
The word voodoo means spirit ordeity in the Fon and Yu
languages, religion that centersaround a supreme creator, mawu
(43:03):
or olu dumare spirits, loas ororishnas, ancestor worship and
rituals involving music, danceand possession.
No-transcript.
During the transatlantic slavetrade from the 16th and 19th
centuries, enslaved Africanswere forcibly brought to the
(43:26):
Americas and the Caribbean,where they preserved their
spiritual beliefs despitecolonial oppression.
However, these beliefs oftenmerged with elements of
Catholicism, indigenouspractices and other African
traditions.
This syncretism resulted invarious forms of voodoo other
African traditions.
This syncretism resulted invarious forms of voodoo In New
Orleans.
This meant a blend of Africantraditions, catholicism and
(43:47):
French spiritualism.
Today, voodoo is stillpracticed in Haiti, parts of the
Caribbean and the US,especially Louisiana and West
Africa.
It remains a vital spiritualsystem, often misunderstood due
to Hollywood portrayals, whichemphasize curses, zombies and
black magic rather than its truereligious and healing aspects.
(44:08):
In voodoo, healing is a centralpractice that incorporates
spirituality, herbal medicine,ritual and energy work.
The use of dolls, oftensensationalized in pop culture,
actually have deep roots intraditional healing and
spiritual guidance, rather thanjust curses or harm.
So healing in voodoo isholistic, addressing physical,
(44:29):
spiritual and emotionalwell-being.
Practitioners, often calledhungans, priests or mambos
priestesses, use a combinationof herbal medicine, spiritual
cleansing, ancestor and spiritcommunication and energy work
and rituals.
Contrary to Hollywoodportrayals, voodoo dolls are not
(44:51):
just tools for harm, but havebeen historically used for
healing and guidance.
They function similarly to amedical chart in the following
ways Diagnostic tools, sopractitioners might use a doll
to represent a sick person,calling upon spirits to help
identify the cause of an illness.
Healing focus so pins or charmsare placed on specific parts of
(45:11):
the doll corresponding to theaffected body areas, symbolizing
healing energy directed towardsthe person.
Prayer and protection Dolls areoften used to channel prayers
for someone's recovery,sometimes adorned with herbs,
oils or written petitions andspiritual connections.
So they believe that dolls mayserve as a link between the
(45:32):
physical and the spirit world,allowing a practitioner to ask
the spirit for help in healing aperson.
So while voodoo dolls can beused in hexing, their primary
function in traditional voodooand Louisiana voodoo dolls can
be used in hexing.
Their primary function intraditional voodoo and louisiana
voodoo is for positive purposeslike healing, protection and
guidance.
Their misuse in media hasovershadowed their genuine role
as sacred tools.
Um, on one of our tours I thinkit was our nighttime uh voodoo
(45:56):
tour the um tour guide wastelling us how the dolls almost
worked as like medical recordsbecause, um, when the enslaved
population would go to a voodoopractitioner for help for
healing, you know they point totheir stomach or their heart,
like where does it hurt?
To education and literacy.
(46:25):
Um, a lot of times the pinswould be put in the doll in the
place where the heart hurts orthe the stomach hurts, and then
put on the shelf and then youknow when that person came back.
It was like a record of whatthey came in last time.
That's cool so I thought thatwas really interesting.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I actually loved that section because I've only seen
the hollywood like portrayal ofvoodoo dolls, so that's super
yeah like you want to get backsomebody.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
So then you just like stick a pin, poke the heck out
of it.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think of afew people I'd want to anyway.
Um, so back to the case.
So edward haslam's booksuggests that the key figures in
new Orleans' undergroundnetwork of spies, anti-castro
operatives and medicalresearchers may have played a
(47:08):
role in shaping the eventsleading up to JFK's death.
The connections are as eerie asthey are fascinating.
I think I'm going to stop here,because we're at 48 minutes and
I'm just hearing your mousegoing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
I'm sorry did you hear how much more she has you
guys?
Speaker 1 (47:35):
that is a lot.
Yeah, I got about 20 pages ofstuff.
So you know what folks there'llbe more next week, just you
know, I think folks There'll bemore next week, just you know.
I think we're going to wrap itup here, so that wasn't the most
eloquent wrap up, but I'm done.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
You know what we're a baby podcast.
It's fine.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
We did a baby.
Oh, and Amanda?
What Amanda we didn't mention?
This is episode 10.
We're in the double digits,baby.
Hey, double digits.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Wow, yeah, we kind of just were chatting with Kathy
and then we were like, okay, go.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, I mean, we're never going back to single
digits now.
Oh my God, it's all uphilldownhill from here.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Well, not always, but for a while, until we're
tripped along For a long while,right?
Well, not always, but for awhile.
Until we're tripped a lot For along while, right, okay, well,
so first of all, then, let mejust get ready to recap on what
we just talked about.
Sometimes, you guys, I wish youcould see a video of us doing
(48:38):
this, because that openingparagraph, my jaw literally like
on the floor, my arms were likeflailing around.
I was like I'm sorry, what this?
Speaker 1 (48:53):
is how we're starting .
Yeah, I didn't really mincearound, did I?
There was no romanticizing.
No, she was like okay, dudepush me off the cliff let's go.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
So glad I buckled up, but I I was not expecting that.
And then, the more you read, Iwas like what happened to mary?
Um, yikes, so looking forwardto do we actually find out what
happens to mary, or you can'ttell me?
No, we don't know.
Maybe we don't know becausethere's conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
So case yeah, it's an unsolved case.
Yeah, it's an unsolved case.
We'll talk some more about thekey players and possible
suspects and different theoriessurrounding it, but it remains
unsolved to this day.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh, mary, and yeah, she was a busy lady, so why
would she link up with thisfreaking drip?
Who's got a bad rap?
Link up with this freaking drip?
Who's got a bad rap?
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Maybe she had an altruistic reason.
I'm distracted, I'm sorry.
I'm sitting looking out mywindow and there's a squirrel
that's on its back.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (49:58):
alive, it's alive.
He's playing like a dog wouldwith a stick.
Oh cute stick and he's liketossing it around and rolling
around and I'm just okay cute,like my adhd, okay, anyway, I've
got to stop looking y'all,we're the type of people that
are like oh, something shinyliterally okay well, I guess
(50:22):
that brings us then to ourmedical mishap for the week.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
um, this medical mishap was sent in and the
writer requested to stayanonymous.
So let's get into that.
Let's get into that.
Hello, anonymous friend.
All right, set the scene.
It's an ER shift, okay.
(50:50):
So the writer writes Okay.
It was a typical chaotic shiftin the emergency room, but one
case would stand out amongst therest, leaving everyone baffled
and relieved at the same time.
A young child was brought in byconcerned parents reporting
strange symptoms.
The child was hearing voicesand, most unsettling of all,
(51:11):
complained that something orsomeone was eating their brain.
As a team of emergency roomdoctors, my colleagues and I
initially suspected a possibleneurological condition such as
schizophrenia, but we wereprepared to keep an open mind.
Before meeting the family, Ireceived the nursing report.
(51:33):
The child's condition wasalarming.
Despite the troublingpsychological complaints, there
were signs of physical distressas well.
The child's head was jerking tothe right, sharply turning
towards her shoulder.
The movements were so erraticthat it raised the possibility
of a neurological disorder oreven seizures.
(51:53):
But something felt off.
This didn't completely add up.
When I walked into the room tomeet the family, the child was
visibly distressed, their headtwitching violently to the right
with every movement.
Their parents wereunderstandably anxious and we
knew we needed to figure out thesource of the child's pain and
discomfort.
Given the violet head jerks andthe child's complaints of pain
(52:17):
localized to the right ear, wemade the decision to conduct an
otoscopic examination.
However, this was easier saidthan done Can relate to that.
Oh, totally, that's valid.
This child's erratic movementsmade it nearly impossible to
visualize the ear canal Beenthere.
(52:38):
Done that so many times donethat so many times.
Um, the pain seemed intense andwith no clear cause yet
identified, I suggested we trysomething that might help calm
the child long enough tocontinue our evaluation a small
dose of lidocaine drops into theear to numb the pain.
Um, a simple solution, wethought.
(53:01):
But we soon realized this wouldbe anything but simple.
It took six nurses six togently restrain the child long
enough to administer thelidocaine drops.
The room was filled withtension as we held our breaths,
hoping that this would providesome relief.
Within moments, the childseemed to be calm, calmer.
(53:21):
Sorry, that's not what theywrote.
The child seemed to calmslightly, but nothing.
Sorry, that's not what theywrote.
Um, the child seemed to calmslightly, but nothing could have
prepared us for what happenednext.
In a sudden shocking movement,an earwig, a real live earwig,
shot out of the child's earcanal like a missile.
Oh, that's my worst.
(53:44):
I just made a makeshift paperbag with my hands and started
like yeah, no, I'mhyperventilating over here um
there was a collective gaspthroughout the room, followed by
startled screams, some from thenurses and others from the
parents who had witnessed thebizarre spectacle.
It was for real.
(54:04):
It was as if a scene from ahorror film had come to life
right before our eyes.
The insect had evidently beenburrowing deep inside the canal,
causing the child severe painand discomfort oh, the poor baby
, yeah, oh, my god just likethat.
The child went from writhing inpain to sitting up calmly, no
longer indicating any discomfort.
(54:25):
The erratic head jerking ceasedand the psychological
complaints disappeared as well.
It was a strange and almostsurreal conclusion to a puzzle
that had started with such aserious medical concern.
We took a moment to processwhat had just occurred.
The earwig's presence had beenthe unassuming culprit all along
, and the bizarre neurologicalsymptoms had been nothing more
(54:47):
than the child's body'sdesperate attempt to signal that
something was terribly wrong.
Once the earwig was expelled,the child's symptoms vanished
entirely.
In the end, what we thoughtmight be a complex psychiatric
case turned out to be a rare andstartling example of how
something as simple as an insectcan cause a cascade of symptoms
(55:07):
that can easily bemisinterpreted as a neurological
disorder.
The relief in the room waspalpable and, as strange as it
may seem, everyone who had beena part of this case nurses,
doctors and family alike leftwith a newfound appreciation for
the unpredictability ofmedicine.
And while this isn't youraverage er story, it was
(55:29):
certainly one that no one wouldsoon forget, and not your
typical medical mishap story,but more of a medical mystery
that I felt compelled to share.
Hope it brings some laughs oh mygosh, thank you, that was
amazing, my worst nightmare too,I know they couldn't look in
the ear, but my worst nightmareto look in an ear and like see a
(55:50):
bug and have it jump out at you, that poor child, oh my gosh,
and I mean thank goodness itwasn't a neurological disorder.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
But yeah, you have to wonder, like like something's
eating my brain.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, the earwig man, the kid was totally right and,
like we've all seen an earwig,there's munchers on the front.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
There's little pinchers.
God, I've got chills and myears standing up in the back of
my neck.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Those things Gosh.
Those pinches hurt.
I got pinched by an earwig once.
Those pinches hurt, I gotpinched by an earwig once.
Oh, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Thank you again for sending that Eek, thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Anandas, and since we all just learned we're doing a
two-pata and you've kind ofalready told us what we can
expect, I abruptly just cuty'all off.
This is where I will tell y'allto not miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow doctoringthe truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts for stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
(56:51):
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at doctoring the truth,
at buzzsproutcom.
Email us your own story, ideas,comments, medical mishaps or
medical mysteries at doctoringthe truth, at gmailcom.
And be sure to follow us oninstagram and or facebook, or
both, or all the things atdoctoring the truth, and we're
(57:12):
also on tiktok.
Hey, um, don't forget todownload, rate and review so we
can be sure to bring you morecontent next week.
Until then, my friends, staysafe and stay suspicious,
suspicious, suspicious,suspicious.
(57:32):
Okay, bye, bye.
welcome.
Thank you.
How are you?
I'm fine.
How are you?
We want to know how you are.
How was your trip?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm good, listen.
Um, right off the bat, we'regonna start with uh, correction
section.
It's not really a correction,it's like you know, we're a
little bit tardy, and by we Imean me, because one of us I
mean me had to go to New Orleans.
I mean, I had to go to NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You guys, she really had to.
She had a poster.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, I had a poster, a research poster, and I won a
little blue ribbon, which was soexciting.
But more than that, I got tobring my daughter and my younger
sissy hello shout out to Emmaand my daughter, savannah, and
um, so when I wasn't learning, Iwas learning on the streets of
Nolens.
So, um, fabulous time, lots oftours of how was the ghost tour
(01:02):
situation yeah, so we went on tolike a voodoo ghost tour
situation.
Yeah, so we went on a voodooghost tour which was walking
through the French Quarter atnight and that was really cool.
But what I really loved was weactually went on a bus tour.
(01:23):
Normally I hate bus tours, butthey let us off to tour
different cemeteries at night.
Yeah, it was like a two-hour bustour.
It was really funny because inthe middle of this like really
macabre, fascinating tour, um,the bus driver was like, okay,
this is the best beignet placein the city.
So then we got out and we allhad our little beignet donuts
and and a hot chocolate and wegot back on the bus but wow, I
(01:43):
mean these cemeteries, you knowhow the water table is super
high in New Orleans and I mean Iknew this and I knew that a lot
of the people were buried aboveground and whatever.
But apparently, if you can'tafford like a mausoleum or like
a little tomb thing mausoleum orlike a a little tomb thing, um,
(02:09):
what they would do is just putlike basically a, basically like
a big old cement cat box, um,but with dirt and turf, and then
they would pack the bodies inthere and then, because new
orleans is hot, wait for the youknow a year and a half for
everything to kind of cook andthen, then they get it out,
crush the bones and then there'smore room for the next person
and then by the time the familydecides, okay, that's enough
(02:30):
already.
Then they put a slab on top.
But apparently our tour guidewas telling us don't look too
closely, because there's likedentures and femurs and eyeballs
and like glass eyeballs andstuff that float to the top,
because you know it gets so manythings in there, not everything
yeah, oh, wow interesting.
Thank you for sharing yeah,you're welcome for that, um, but
(02:56):
I did learn some other stuffthat I mean, I've been to New
Orleans before, but I was like acollege student and all I
really cared about at the timewas what was happening on
Bourbon Street.
So this was a little differentbecause I had my family with me,
um.
But I learned that I don't God,I should have looked this up
beforehand, um, but there wassome time in the late 1800s,
(03:17):
maybe early 1900s, there was adude that um wanted to make some
money, um, so he settled.
He was a French guy, he settledin New Orleans and so he
settled.
He was a french guy, he settledin new orleans and he was
decided he was going to get intothe fur trade business and sell
fur coats for the ladies.
All about why you'd need a furcoat in new orleans, I don't
know, um anyway.
(03:37):
So he wanted to do it cheaply,so he brought with him a bunch
of nutria.
Do you know what nutria?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
are.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
They are.
It sounds like a cereal bar,but they're actually.
Do you ever watch PrincessBride?
Yeah, so they are R-O-U-S'srodents of unusual size.
They are massive rats basicallythat were indigenous to South
America.
So he brought them and he hadthem all in their little cages,
their pens or whatever, but NewOrleans, as we know, is prone to
(04:08):
lots of storms and things.
Anyway, the cages blew over andthe nutria escaped and they did
what rats and bunnies do andthey propagated and so now
they're an invasive species.
What I didn't know I didn't knowthat, but what really found
intriguing, slash, devastating,is that the nutria feed on
(04:30):
grassroots.
So you know, new Orleans iskind of held together by the
swampy grasslands, you knowbetween the ocean and Louisiana,
and these little things willeat, they're feeding off the
roots of these grasses.
So what's happening?
Of course I didn't, I didn'tfact check, but according to my
(04:51):
tour guide, um, you said thatthese nutria are eating
grassroots at a pace of about afootball field and a half an
hour.
And so if you look at um, agoogle map like google earth of
louisiana, you know how wealways learned when we learned
(05:13):
our states, uh, in school, thatlouisiana was an l shape.
It's not an l shape anymore.
The bottom, like the foot ofthe l, is gone.
It's gone, it's gone, munched,it's munched.
I know so they're like.
That's why Louisiana likes toparty and live life today,
because it's going to bereclaimed by the ocean by the
(05:36):
end of the century.
So, yeah, fascinating, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Wow, those little buggers.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That really struck me .
Yeah, I mean, I did, I checkedit out, I did check Google earth
.
Have a look.
I mean it's like a lowercase Linstead of an uppercase L.
I know it's crazy, so sad, andsome of it has to do with, like,
a lot of salt wash from varioushurricanes and whatnot that
also killed the grasslands.
(06:04):
But anyway, sad, sad andpoignant.
Um well, thank you for sharing.
yeah, you're welcome I meanadditionally, I think I gained
10 pounds, ate a lot ofhurricanes, um eight beignets
and you know all the gumbo andjambalaya that a body can take.
(06:26):
So yeah, I'm back.
And you know, when we went, itwas actually hotter in Minnesota
than it was in New Orleans atthe time it was upper 70s, yeah,
and it was like 86 here inMinnesota.
Then when we landed a coupledays ago it was in a snowstorm.
So thanks a lot, minnesota.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, it's been just real.
You know what I was thinkingtoday and my colleague said to
me, I think yesterday umremember that wives tale of
three snows on Robin's back?
Um, I think we've exceededthree.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So I know I sent you a picture of a robin in my
backyard the day I got back.
I was like dude, he's coveredin snow.
You promised me the last time.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I saw him.
I didn't make the wise tale.
Okay, I'm just spreading thegospel.
You got my hopes up, though Iknow I got my own hopes up.
I'm disappointed.
I saw a robin on my walk todayand I thought, sir, where is
spring?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Sir, ma'am, whoever you are, Don't you know your own
wife?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
sir, come on, write to the people, welcome back and
thank you for sharing about yourtravels.
And what else will you besharing with us today?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, since I was in New Orleans, I thought I was
really inspired by, you know,all the woo-woo there and the
history and the rich cultures,and I thought I've got to find a
New Orleans medical story story.
Um, so I, we went to a lot ofmy daughter really likes, like
(08:08):
oddities and, like you know,antiques and things.
So we, we went to a lot ofthese um kind of whole in the
wild shops to kind of look formysterious and wonderful things.
In one of these shops I found abook entitled oh gosh, can I
not remember what it's called?
Oh, dr Mary's Monkey, by EdwardT Haslam, and so I decided to
(08:34):
do a story about this.
So it's called Monkeys, miceand Mary, the Mysterious Murder
of Dr Sherman.
And this will be part one of atwo-pata, because guys buckle up
, this is a wild ride.
I'm buckled, okay, all right.
So, um, any remaining sources?
(08:55):
I mean the majority of what Ipulled for today's episode was
from the book Dr Mary's Monkey,but remaining sources will be
listed in our show notes.
Trigger warning this episodecontains information about the
medical experimentation onanimals which you know many
consider animal abuse.
All right, so a bit about theauthor.
(09:19):
Edward Haslam is the son of anorthopedic surgeon who worked
with Dr Mary Sherman at Tulaneuniversity's medical school.
He recalls instances from hischildhood when his father was
upset by an?
I by the idea that anexperiment was taking place on
the grounds of the U?
S public health servicehospital, and how he tried to
stop it.
Um, haslam's book reflects 20years of investigation into this
(09:41):
case and its connections.
Yeah so, Dr Mary Sherman.
Haslam's book reflects 20 yearsof investigation into this case
and its connections.
Yeah so, dr Mary Sherman.
Let's get into it.
Dr Mary Sherman was found deadon July 21st 1964, in her
apartment in New Orleans.
She was 51 years old.
She lived in an upscaleapartment on Loyola Avenue near
(10:05):
the Ochsner Clinic where sheworked.
The official cause of death wasmultiple stab wounds.
However, the condition of herbody raised far more questions
than answers.
Her body was mutilated andshe'd suffered from severe burns
on parts of her body,particularly around her arms and
upper torso.
(10:25):
Her right arm was missingaltogether.
The nature of the burns waswhat led to widespread
speculation.
Some believed that the burnswere the result of high voltage
radiation or exposure to someform of experimental substance
which aligned with herinvolvement in radiation
research.
Experimental substance which,aligned with her involvement in
(10:46):
radiation research.
The unusual nature of theinjury suggested that it might
not have been a straightforwardhomicide, but instead something
far more complex.
So the basic storyline goes asfollows At about 4 am, a
neighbor detected smoke andcalled the police.
(11:07):
His name was Juan Valdez, and no, it's not the coffee guy.
That was my immediate thought.
Wait, the coffee guy.
So the police checked thebuilding and found a
smoke-filled apartment, and sothey called the fire department
because they couldn't get in dueto the amount of smoke.
So when the firefightersarrived, they removed a smoky
mattress from the apartment.
While searching the apartment,they discovered the badly burned
(11:29):
body of a woman who'd beenstabbed repeatedly.
An investigator from thecoroner's office arrived and
checked the scene.
No murder weapon was found, buta large knife was missing from
the knife rack in the kitchen.
Her body was sent to thecoroner's office where another
doctor, who was a colleague ofhers at the university where she
worked, identified her.
(11:51):
The state's item newspaperreported that homicide
detectives said the front doorto her apartment had been forced
open, her wallet was empty andher 1961 automobile was missing.
Sam Moran, the specialinvestigator for the Orleans
Parish Coroner's Office, saidthat the front door had been
forced open and an unsuccessfulattempt had been made to open a
(12:14):
jewelry box.
The other residents in thebuilding were questioned and
nobody heard anything, exceptfor one resident who heard one
Valdez walking around hisapartment before the police
arrived.
Mary's housekeeper, elminerPeterson, reported that the
burglar alarm in Dr Sherman'sapartment was in the off
position because she wasexpecting visitors from out of
(12:36):
town.
There were no signs of forcedentry and no signs of a struggle
.
There didn't appear to beanything out of place in the
home, so it wasn't ransacked.
It wasn't a burglary gone wrong.
The homicide report wascompleted on October 29, 1964,
about 10 weeks after the policestopped their investigation.
The first half covered thecrime scene and the second half
(12:58):
of the report was dated severaldays later, on November 3, 1964.
Detective Frank Hayward andDetective Robert Townsend and
their supervisor, lieutenantJames Cruby, should have signed
the report, but RobertTownsend's was the only
signature on the document.
The fact that the report was sodelayed and the breach of
protocol due to lack ofsignatures is suspicious.
(13:21):
The report described the sceneand this is gruesome, so trigger
warning.
The body was in a supineposition, both legs were
outstretched and parallel toeach other.
The left arm was outstretchedand, parallel to the left side
of the body, the right side ofthe body, from the waist where
the right shoulder would be,including the entire right arm,
(13:41):
was disintegrated from the fire,yielding the inside organs of
the body.
There was what appeared to be astab wound in the left arm and
also in the inner side of theright leg near the knee.
The body was nude, however,clothing had been placed on top
of the body, mostly covering itfrom just above the pubic area
to the neck.
The mentioned clothes had beenburned completely, while others
(14:06):
were still intact but scorched.
The autopsy was performed by DrSamuels, a pathologist, who
told police that the victim haddied prior to the fire, had not
been raped and was dead beforeher genitals were stabbed.
The coroner's I know Just alittle extra there.
The coroner's Whoa, I know Justa little side.
Yeah, just a little extra there.
(14:28):
The coroner's officials examinedthe clothing that was piled on
top of her body and noted thatmost of the clothes were still
neatly folded when placed on topof the body.
The criminologist observed thatthe clothes were made of a
synthetic material that wouldignite into flame at 500 degrees
Fahrenheit.
At lower temperatures theywould have only smoldered.
(14:49):
So this is interesting.
Apparently the temperatures inthe apartment then didn't reach
500 degrees because the clothesdidn't burn.
So I looked up what it takes Imean, I'm probably on some list
right now what it takes to burna body and according to some
cremation information it takes600 to 2000 degrees for several
(15:14):
hours to burn a body and eventhen there's going to be pieces
of bones like joints and skullfragments and stuff.
Bones do not burn.
Did you know that when a bodyis cremated, like I always
thought, everything just turnedto dust?
It doesn't.
There's still bones and thenthey grind the bones up and
that's when you get the ashes.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I didn't even really think about that um, so I mean,
I only know that because of,like pets that have been
cremated, because I wasexpecting the bag of ashes to
look like ashes and they looklike little fragments of bones.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh, god, oh, I don't want to, oh, okay, well, so
therefore the crime scene didn'tmatch the crime.
It was impossible to to explainthe damage to Mary's right arm
by damage, meaning it wasmissing, and the right side of
her body with the evidence thatwas found in her apartment.
(16:13):
In fact, what if it happenedsomewhere else?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Something definitely must have happened to her
earlier that evening, somethingmore violent than a typical
house fire, in order todisintegrate her entire right
arm and right rib cage yeah itwould take something that and
it's not like this was a workincident and then you just
casually went home without yourfreaking arm on and like going
about your business, before your, your friends or family come to
(16:39):
visit yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
So I mean it would take something that would
vaporize and destroy everything,something high voltage like, I
don't know, a five million voltlinear particle accelerator that
she had access to at work or inthe lab that she worked in.
So what if there was a mishap inthe lab and her death would
(17:02):
have exposed secret researchgoing on there?
The autopsy report noted thatshe died from a stab wound to
the heart.
So what if she had been workingon I don't know, mutating
monkey viruses using radioactiveexposure and suffered a blast
injury from something gone wrong?
(17:22):
What if this didn't kill herand then she was killed by
others in the lab by a stab tothe heart to avoid exposure of
their secret experiments?
They would have then taken herback to her apartment, stacked
some clothes on her and thenstabbed her indiscriminately to
make it look like a psychopathwas involved and then set the
place on fire.
And this is, I mean so theinitial stab wound to her heart,
(17:47):
the um autopsy report noted,happened while she.
That was what killed her.
She was alive when thathappened, but the other stab
wounds and there were multipleall over her body were done
post-mortem.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
So to me something like that I mean makes maybe a
little more does make some sensealso highly irresponsible to
choose.
Let's take her back to herapartment and start it on fire
and hopefully don't killeveryone in the entire building.
Come on, guys right.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So police investigated 150 professional
associates and acquaintances ofMary.
And yet almost half thehomicide report was about
totally irrelevant details andnothing to do with what happened
to Mary between 4.30 pm on July20, 1964, and 4 in the morning
on July 21, 1964, on the nightslash morning of her murder.
(18:40):
For instance, the report talkedabout a peeping Tom who'd been
caught ogling a woman in thesame apartment complex six
months earlier.
He had moved, subsequentlymoved out of town and he had an
alibi for the evening inquestion.
And then there was Jane.
She is a young woman from NewJersey who had the misfortune of
(19:02):
walking past Sherman's buildingaround midnight.
She was described as wearinglike toreador pants and having
short hair.
So, gasp shock, obviously shewas a lesbian.
So yeah.
So they said that she was onher way to a lesbian rendezvous
In the police report a lesbianrendezvous in the French Quarter
(19:25):
.
Oh my God.
So there was more stupid stufflike this in the report.
It seemed like they wereimplying that there must have
been a sexual motive for thekilling, and the report listed
in absolutely excruciatingdetail the place of employment
of each of these incidentalpeople who are irrelevant to the
case.
But yet they didn't mentionMary Sherman's place of
(19:47):
employment?
Why wouldn't they mention thatshe worked for the renowned Dr
Ochsner in his cancer laboratoryat Tulane Medical School?
And what about Juan Valdez?
Was that really his name, Imean?
According to this author, hewas privy to research by Joan
(20:08):
Mellon, who wrote a bookFarewell to Justice, and said
that Juan worked for Clay Shawat the International Trademark
in New Orleans, and he wasconnected to Lee Oswald.
You know Lee Harvey Oswald.
Ever heard of him?
Oh sweet to seewald.
Ever heard of him?
Oh sweet to see.
(20:28):
Have you ever heard of him?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
That was not rhetorical.
No, I don't know.
I don't know If I have.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay, so not one to you.
Didn't see JFK, then it wasn'taround.
Question mark the movie.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Okay, alright, anyway , tell my colleague because she
thinks I'm old and I guess I'mnot.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, no, no, You'd be old if you knew too much about
this.
I would think, so you just madeyourself super youthful.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You hear that, Mallory.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, mallory, take that.
The international trademark isoften mentioned in connection
with Clay Shaw.
He's a New Orleans businessmanwho was the only person
prosecuted in the investigationof President John F Kennedy's
assassination and he wasprosecuted by District Attorney
Jim Garrison.
Shaw, who was the director ofITM, was accused and later
(21:26):
acquitted, of conspiring toassassinate Kennedy.
Haslam also encountered a newsarticle from New Orleans about a
Juan Valadez, who worked forthe CIA for 30 years and is now
retired.
Haslam reported speaking to aNew Orleans police detective
named Frank Hayward whoinvestigated Mary Sherman's
(21:49):
murder, and Frank confided inHaslam that he had wanted to
arrest Juan for Mary's murderbut he didn't have enough
evidence to make the chargesstick.
He also said he couldn'tbelieve the amount of phone
calls he was getting from allover the show the FBI, the
Justice Department, louisianaState Police, police, it went on
and on all these entities thatwere calling him repeatedly to
(22:10):
inquire about any progressinvestigating the mary sherman
murder.
It was almost like somebody wasnervous.
So Frank went on to say thatthere was no central air in the
patio apartments where Mary andJuan lived and their apartments
were opposite, with windows thatopened only to the street in
(22:31):
front of their personalapartment.
So, given the location ofJuan's apartment, there was no
way he would be able to smellthe smoke from Mary Sherman's
fire unless he'd been roamingaround the courtyard of the
patio apartments at 4 AM forsome reason.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Okay, but I'm just thinking um in Minnesota.
When there's wildfires inCanada, I can smell that a
little bit a wildfire, a littlebit bigger versus a mattress.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, and there were people all around Mary's site.
So you imagine these apartmentsare like back to back.
So it's like one side of theapartment faced Street A and all
of those apartments, their onlywindows faced Street A and Mary
faced Street B and all of thoseapartments only had windows
facing Street B.
So how is one guy on theopposite end, who probably would
(23:24):
have been the last one to smellsomething, the only one to
smell something?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I suppose, Then there was an interesting detail from
a police report that MarySherman's apartment had been
burgled I love that word.
I don't it's a terrible word,but I love to say it Burgled a
few months before her murder.
But we'll come back to thatword.
I don't it's a terrible word,but I love to say it Burgled A
few months before her murder.
But we'll come back to thatlater.
Let's learn more about Maryfirst.
So Mary Sherman was consideredabsolutely brilliant by her
(23:55):
medical colleagues.
She rapidly rose to the verytop ranks of the male-dominated
hierarchy in American medicine,specifically in bone and joint
surgery, a field that to thisday has extremely few female
physicians, unless you watch ER.
(24:18):
Self-made, financiallysuccessful and professionally
respected, Dr Sherman was asophisticated and powerful woman
during an era when the futurefeminists of the 1960s were
still watching.
Leave it to Beaver.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, I know.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Leave it to Beaver Nick at Night.
Cool Go you.
Yet the glimpses we see of hervery private personal life show
a complex and sensitive womanwho loves theater, literature,
music, wine, flowers andinternational travel, and who
carried with her some terriblepersonal burdens.
Most of what we know about MarySherman comes from newspaper
(25:00):
articles, the unusual policereport I just described and her
last will and testament.
There are a handful ofinterviews out there that paint
a picture of an unusuallytalented woman who met an
unusually brutal and horribleend.
Mary was born as Mary Stultz inEvanston, illinois, in 1913.
She was one of severaldaughters of a musical voice
(25:21):
coach.
When she was 16 years old, shewent to France for two years to
study at Le Col de M Colneau andlater taught French while
working on her master's degreeat the University of Illinois.
She married a man named ThomasSherman, about whom we know
little, but that's how shebecame Mary Sherman.
She received a Phi Beta Kappamembership due to her graduate
(25:44):
work at the University ofChicago and, side note, the
University of Chicago is anintellectual powerhouse that
rivals Harvard, stanford and anyother Ivy League university.
It was founded with a grantfrom the Rockefeller Foundation
and was modeled after theEuropean Research University
rather than the AmericanTeaching College.
This was done at a time whenthe Rockefeller fortune was
(26:07):
heavily invested in thepharmaceutical industry, and
their sponsorship of biochemicalresearch contributed to the
development of new commercialdrugs.
Today, the University ofChicago remains at the forefront
of genetics and cancer research.
As an outgrowth of thisbiochemical medical research,
the University of Chicago becameone of the first major centers
of nuclear research.
(26:28):
The landmark event of thisnuclear effort was the
construction of the first atomsmasher, a vast nuclear
accelerator hidden undergroundin UC's sports stadium.
In 1937, it produced the firstsustained nuclear reaction.
For a UC physicist, enricoFermi.
(26:50):
This is where Mary Sherman didher postgraduate work.
She was trained at theheadwaters of nuclear,
biochemical and genetic researchin America Before she became
involved in human medicine.
Mary conducted groundbreakingresearch into botanical viruses
that lived in the soil.
Her early articles were soprofound and insightful that
(27:10):
they were frequently quoted inthe 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s,
and although she'd been deceasedfor 30 years, the scientific
citation index reveals that 10medical articles published in
1993 contain references to herscientific writings which were
published between 1947 and 65.
The names of the journals tellthe story of her
(27:31):
state-of-the-art use ofradiation for treatment of bone
cancers, radiology, skeletalradiology, pathologic research,
acta, radiologica,histopathology and bone.
I mean, I just want to get ajournal in the mail called Bone,
just short and sweet.
(27:51):
Anyway.
So I mean her thinking wasgroundbreaking and revolutionary
.
This was a young woman whostudied in France at a time when
Madame Curie's name was thepinnacle of the scientific world
and was one of America's mostpromising minds.
With proper training,encouragement and opportunities,
she could be within strikingdistance of the legendary Curie
herself and potentially becomeone of the most important women
(28:13):
in science.
Perhaps it would be Mary who,at such a young age, had a
deeper understanding of thebasic life of viruses than
anyone before her.
Maybe it would be her who wouldbreak through the cancer
barrier.
The great minds at UC saw herpotential and brought her along
for the ride.
During the 1940s she became anassociate professor of
(28:33):
orthopedic surgery and practicedmedicine at UC Billings
Hospital.
It's not clear when, but thereare allusions to the fact that
Mary's husband took his own lifein the 1940s at some point.
Mary was the only person whomentioned this and I found no
independent corroboration ofthis information.
But her life changed in the1950s.
(28:57):
Her cancer work at theUniversity of Chicago had
attracted the attention of afamous and wealthy doctor who
was the president of theAmerican cancer society.
He was also the president of arenowned medical clinic named
after him.
You know you've made it whenyour clinic is named after you,
and he was the chief of surgeryat Tulane medical school, one of
the most respected medicalschools of the time.
(29:19):
That doctor was Alton Oxner, mdof new Orleans.
Oxner's offer to Dr Sherman wasconsiderable.
She would be a partner in hisclinic, the head of her own
cancer lab, and she could keepher place in the academic side
of medicine and act as anassociate professor at Tulane
Medical School.
Additionally, she would alsohave the personal support of one
(29:42):
of the most politicallypowerful and well-connected
doctors in America, guaranteeingher a constant flow of research
funds.
Dr Ochsner was known for hisstaunch anti-communist stance
and connections to intelligenceagencies.
Some believe his clinic wasactually a front for secret
medical projects aimed atundermining Castro's regime.
(30:06):
A single woman, mary, moved toNew Orleans in 1952 and lived in
a resident on historic StCharles Avenue near the corner
of Louisiana Avenue.
She lived there until her deathin 1964, juggling her jobs at
Tulane and Ochsner's, performingsurgeries at Charity Hospital
and working on the medical staffof several children's hospitals
(30:26):
.
As doctors went, she was alwaysmore comfortable in a lab than
in an operating room.
Her career prospered, one ofthe clear indicators for success
for an orthopedic surgeon isbeing elected to the American
Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.
It takes years, if not decades,and some never make it.
Once in the academy, thesuccess ladder continues.
(30:48):
Bright students are placed oncommittees that create the rules
governing science and ethics.
They establish what'sacceptable and who is accepted.
The brightest of the starschair the committees.
One of the most prestigious isthe pathology committee, which
reviews the state of the art ondiseases, particularly bone
cancers.
Mary Sherman was chairman ofthe Pathology Committee of the
(31:11):
American Academy of OrthopedicSurgeons.
Her position took her allaround the world when it was
necessary to agree on thelanguage that physicians used to
describe and categorize cancersof the bone and soft tissue.
It needed to be re-examined.
Six of the nation's leadingexperts were selected to tackle
the task, and Mary Sherman wasamong them.
(31:31):
When the front page of thenewspaper had the sad task of
announcing her death, itdescribed her as an
internationally known bonespecialist whose main area of
interest was bone cancertreatment and research.
So at this point you may bethinking well, why on earth
would anyone want to murder sucha renowned and well-respected
physician?
Let's talk conspiracies.
(31:54):
In 1967, jim Garrison, the NewOrleans district attorney who
investigated Kennedy'sassassination was interviewed by
Playboy magazine Wow, but itwas like an 18 page article and
it's like one of the mostrevealing articles and that's
kind of a play on words, becausePlayboy can be,
(32:16):
revealing, as we all know, butpeople just get it for the
articles, and in this interview,um garrison claimed that a man
named david ferry had beeninvolved in covert medical
experiments, including theinjection of cancer cells into
unsuspecting individuals as partof a secret research program.
(32:36):
He suggested that theseexperiments were tied to a
larger intelligence operationaimed at developing biological
weapons potentially for use inassassination plots.
Garrison's allegations linkedFerry, dr Mary Sherman and Dr
Alton Ochsner to a clandestinenetwork that sought to engineer
cancer as a tool ofassassination.
(32:57):
While these claims remainhighly controversial, they have
fueled ongoing conspiracytheories surrounding Ferry's
involvement in medical researchand the broader context of Cold
War era covert operations.
So let's talk more about whothis dude, david Ferry, is.
(33:20):
David was born on March 19th1929 in nolens, louisiana.
He grew up in a working-classfamily, though much of his early
life remains shrouded inmystery, with many aspects of
his childhood left unreported orunclear.
He attended loyola interuniversity of new orleans, where
he studied law, but he didn'tcomplete his degree.
Instead, he pursued his passionfor aviation, becoming a flight
(33:45):
instructor and a skilled pilot.
He gained notoriety for flyingsmall planes, an activity that
later drew attention due to hisalleged involvement with the CIA
and anti-Castro operations.
Ferry was linked to anti-CastroCuban exile groups and was
believed to have worked closelywith individuals involved in the
CIA's covert efforts againstFidel Castro.
(34:07):
He was allegedly associatedwith Operation 40, which is a
secret mission aimed atoverthrowing Castro's regime.
Before his involvement inaviation and political
activities, ferry pursuedreligious studies with the
intention of becoming a Catholicpriest.
He initially trained in aseminary but was ultimately
rejected from the priesthood dueto concerns over his unorthodox
(34:29):
beliefs and allegedinappropriate behavior.
Despite the rejection, ferrymaintained a lifelong
fascination with religion, oftenengaging in theological debates
and incorporating religiousthemes into his personal
ideology, and incorporatingreligious themes into his
personal ideology.
His expulsion from the seminarycontributed to the erratic and
(34:50):
controversial trajectory of hislife.
Ferry suffered from a rarecondition that caused severe
hair loss, leaving himcompletely bald and without
eyebrows.
Unfortunately, to compensate,he wore an ill-fitting orange
wig and painted on fake eyebrows.
That gave him a very strikingand unusual appearance, which is
a nice way of putting it.
So if you're curious, just lookup David Ferry on your Google
(35:15):
machine.
It's quite a sight.
His appearance fueledspeculation and intrigue about
his involvement in variousclandestine activities.
Allegations of sexualmisconduct also marred his
personal life.
He was accused of inappropriatebehavior involving young men,
(35:38):
and these accusations led to hisdismissal from Eastern Airlines
, where he had worked as a pilot.
Multiple sources claimed thatFerry had a history of engaging
in questionable activities,including interactions with
underage boys.
While some of these allegationswere dismissed or never fully
prosecuted, they contributed tohis troubled reputation and
further fueled the mysterysurrounding his life.
His erratic behavior and legaltroubles only added to the
(36:00):
suspicion surrounding hisassociation and activities.
One of the most controversialaspects of Ferry's life was his
alleged connection to Lee HarveyOswald, the accused assassin of
President John F Kennedy.
Reports suggest that Ferry knewOswald and had been seen with
him in New Orleans before theassassination, fueling numerous
(36:21):
conspiracy theories.
Ferry was rumored to have hadan interest in medical
experiments, particularly thoserelated to cancer research.
According to some theories, hewas involved in secret medical
projects developing biologicalagents potentially used in the
Cold War and assassination plots.
These claims have been linkedto Judith Ferry Baker, who
(36:42):
asserted that she worked onsecret cancer research projects
alongside Oswald and Ferry.
Ferry and Sherman are believedto have met through their shared
association with Dr AltonOchsner.
Reports suggest that Ferry,despite lacking formal medical
credentials, had access toresearch facilities where
Sherman worked.
His knowledge of biology andalleged role in underground
(37:04):
research may have facilitatedtheir collaboration.
It's alleged that they workedtogether on clandestine projects
aimed at developingcancer-causing viruses as part
of the covert Cold Waroperations.
The unusual circumstances ofSherman's death fueled
speculation about a cover-up andhave linked Ferry to a larger
(37:25):
network of secretive scientificresearch.
Knowing all of this begs thequestion what would motivate an
accomplished medicalprofessional like Mary to risk
her reputation by gettinginvolved in an underground
medical lab with a violentpolitical zealot, with a
criminal record of sexualmisconduct and no medical
credentials?
Was she led there by her ownambitions?
(37:48):
Was there a dark side to her,concealed from public view?
Did more powerful forcesmanipulate her or was a serious
medical problem brewing thatjustified the risk?
To truly understand the strangeand unsettling story behind Dr
Mary's monkey, we must step backinto the world of the 1960s, a
time of intense geopoliticaltension, groundbreaking medical
(38:11):
advancements and deep-seatedgovernment secrecy, and the
Soviet Union locked in a battlefor global dominance.
The Cuban Missile Crisis of1962 brought the world to the
brink of nuclear war,heightening fears about
communist expansion and Sovietinfluence just 90 miles off the
(38:32):
US coast.
This era was characterized bycovert operations, espionage and
scientific experimentation,often conducted under the guise
of national security.
Medical research was rapidlyadvancing, but not always in an
ethical manner.
The polio vaccine had been amajor breakthrough in the 1950s,
but new concerns arose over thecontamination with SV40, a
(38:54):
monkey virus that someresearchers believed would cause
cancer.
At the same time, biologicalwarfare programs were being
explored, with scientistsinvestigating ways to use
disease as a weapon.
Against this backdrop, the USgovernment became obsessed with
eliminating Fidel Castro, cuba'scommunist leader.
Various assassination plots,including the infamous
(39:17):
CIA-backed Operation Mongoose,were devised, many involving
unconventional methods likepoison cigars or toxic pens.
I mean nothing scarier than atoxic pen.
It's like what'd it do?
Like leak anthrax on you?
Like what?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
no, it's reminding me of that um umbrella, from that
other episode where you got himin the back of the knee oh, yeah
, yeah, maybe, yeah, I shouldhave looked that up.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Okay, maybe, with cold war, paranoia fueling
secret experiments and medicalethics taking a backseat to
political strategy, dr sherman'swork and her shocking death
became even more suspicious.
Was she just another scientistor was she part of something far
more dangerous?
While the Cold War fueledpolitical and military tensions,
(40:10):
another battle was being foughtin labs and hospitals the fight
against deadly diseases.
The 1950s and 60s were a goldenage of medical discovery, but
they were also a time of ethicalgray area, where scientific
ambition sometimes outpacedcaution.
One of the most significantbreakthroughs of the time was
the development of the poliovaccine.
(40:31):
Polio had been one of the mostfeared diseases in America,
crippling thousands of childreneach year.
The vaccine developed by DrJonas Salk and later refined by
Dr Albert Sabine, was a triumphof modern medicine, but there
was a dark side to the success.
Some batches of the vaccinewere found to be contaminated
with SV40, a simian virus thathad unknowingly been transmitted
(40:55):
from the monkey kidney cellsused to grow the vaccine.
Years later, scientists debatedwhether SV40 could be linked to
an increased risk of cancer, acontroversy that remains
unsolved.
At the same time, cancerresearch was advancing rapidly.
Radiation therapy andchemotherapy were emerging as
mainstream treatments, butresearchers were still searching
(41:17):
for the key to understandingand possibly preventing cancer
at a cellular level and possiblypreventing cancer at a cellular
level.
This led to secretive andcontroversial projects, some of
which involved high-riskexperiments with viruses and
radiation.
No discussion of this book DrMary's Monkey would be complete
without addressing one of themost infamous and enduring
conspiracy theories in Americanhistory the assassination of
(41:40):
President John F Kennedy.
The events of November 22, 1963, continue to spark debate, with
countless theories challengingthe official story that Lee
Harvey Oswald acted alone.
But what if Oswald's time inNew Orleans and the medical
experiments described in DrMary's Monkey were somehow
connected to a much larger plot?
(42:00):
More on that in a moment moment.
Right now it's time for asounded like a train oh, wow
welcome to the chart notesegment, where we learn about
what's happening in medicine andhealth care.
Okay, so, um.
(42:21):
When I was scrounging aroundthe curiosities and oddity shops
in New Orleans, I was hoping tofind something a little bit
more spooky, so I couldn't letthis episode go without talking
a little bit about voodoo.
So voodoo has its origins inWest Africa, particularly
(42:43):
amongst the Fon, yu and Yorubapeoples of present-day Benin,
togo, nigeria and Ghana.
The word voodoo means spirit ordeity in the Fon and Yu
languages, religion that centersaround a supreme creator, mawu
(43:03):
or olu dumare spirits, loas ororishnas, ancestor worship and
rituals involving music, danceand possession.
No-transcript.
During the transatlantic slavetrade from the 16th and 19th
centuries, enslaved Africanswere forcibly brought to the
(43:26):
Americas and the Caribbean,where they preserved their
spiritual beliefs despitecolonial oppression.
However, these beliefs oftenmerged with elements of
Catholicism, indigenouspractices and other African
traditions.
This syncretism resulted invarious forms of voodoo other
African traditions.
This syncretism resulted invarious forms of voodoo In New
Orleans.
This meant a blend of Africantraditions, catholicism and
(43:47):
French spiritualism.
Today, voodoo is stillpracticed in Haiti, parts of the
Caribbean and the US,especially Louisiana and West
Africa.
It remains a vital spiritualsystem, often misunderstood due
to Hollywood portrayals, whichemphasize curses, zombies and
black magic rather than its truereligious and healing aspects.
(44:08):
In voodoo, healing is a centralpractice that incorporates
spirituality, herbal medicine,ritual and energy work.
The use of dolls, oftensensationalized in pop culture,
actually have deep roots intraditional healing and
spiritual guidance, rather thanjust curses or harm.
So healing in voodoo isholistic, addressing physical,
(44:29):
spiritual and emotionalwell-being.
Practitioners, often calledhungans, priests or mambos
priestesses, use a combinationof herbal medicine, spiritual
cleansing, ancestor and spiritcommunication and energy work
and rituals.
Contrary to Hollywoodportrayals, voodoo dolls are not
(44:51):
just tools for harm, but havebeen historically used for
healing and guidance.
They function similarly to amedical chart in the following
ways Diagnostic tools, sopractitioners might use a doll
to represent a sick person,calling upon spirits to help
identify the cause of an illness.
Healing focus so pins or charmsare placed on specific parts of
(45:11):
the doll corresponding to theaffected body areas, symbolizing
healing energy directed towardsthe person.
Prayer and protection Dolls areoften used to channel prayers
for someone's recovery,sometimes adorned with herbs,
oils or written petitions andspiritual connections.
So they believe that dolls mayserve as a link between the
(45:32):
physical and the spirit world,allowing a practitioner to ask
the spirit for help in healing aperson.
So while voodoo dolls can beused in hexing, their primary
function in traditional voodooand Louisiana voodoo dolls can
be used in hexing.
Their primary function intraditional voodoo and louisiana
voodoo is for positive purposeslike healing, protection and
guidance.
Their misuse in media hasovershadowed their genuine role
as sacred tools.
Um, on one of our tours I thinkit was our nighttime uh voodoo
(45:56):
tour the um tour guide wastelling us how the dolls almost
worked as like medical recordsbecause, um, when the enslaved
population would go to a voodoopractitioner for help for
healing, you know they point totheir stomach or their heart,
like where does it hurt?
To education and literacy.
(46:25):
Um, a lot of times the pinswould be put in the doll in the
place where the heart hurts orthe the stomach hurts, and then
put on the shelf and then youknow when that person came back.
It was like a record of whatthey came in last time.
That's cool so I thought thatwas really interesting.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I actually loved that section because I've only seen
the hollywood like portrayal ofvoodoo dolls, so that's super
yeah like you want to get backsomebody.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
So then you just like stick a pin, poke the heck out
of it.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think of afew people I'd want to anyway.
Um, so back to the case.
So edward haslam's booksuggests that the key figures in
new Orleans' undergroundnetwork of spies, anti-castro
operatives and medicalresearchers may have played a
(47:08):
role in shaping the eventsleading up to JFK's death.
The connections are as eerie asthey are fascinating.
I think I'm going to stop here,because we're at 48 minutes and
I'm just hearing your mousegoing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
I'm sorry did you hear how much more she has you
guys?
Speaker 1 (47:35):
that is a lot.
Yeah, I got about 20 pages ofstuff.
So you know what folks there'llbe more next week, just you
know, I think folks There'll bemore next week, just you know.
I think we're going to wrap itup here, so that wasn't the most
eloquent wrap up, but I'm done.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
You know what we're a baby podcast.
It's fine.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
We did a baby.
Oh, and Amanda?
What Amanda we didn't mention?
This is episode 10.
We're in the double digits,baby.
Hey, double digits.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Wow, yeah, we kind of just were chatting with Kathy
and then we were like, okay, go.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, I mean, we're never going back to single
digits now.
Oh my God, it's all uphilldownhill from here.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Well, not always, but for a while, until we're
tripped along For a long while,right?
Well, not always, but for awhile.
Until we're tripped a lot For along while, right, okay, well,
so first of all, then, let mejust get ready to recap on what
we just talked about.
Sometimes, you guys, I wish youcould see a video of us doing
(48:38):
this, because that openingparagraph, my jaw literally like
on the floor, my arms were likeflailing around.
I was like I'm sorry, what this?
Speaker 1 (48:53):
is how we're starting .
Yeah, I didn't really mincearound, did I?
There was no romanticizing.
No, she was like okay, dudepush me off the cliff let's go.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
So glad I buckled up, but I I was not expecting that.
And then, the more you read, Iwas like what happened to mary?
Um, yikes, so looking forwardto do we actually find out what
happens to mary, or you can'ttell me?
No, we don't know.
Maybe we don't know becausethere's conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
So case yeah, it's an unsolved case.
Yeah, it's an unsolved case.
We'll talk some more about thekey players and possible
suspects and different theoriessurrounding it, but it remains
unsolved to this day.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh, mary, and yeah, she was a busy lady, so why
would she link up with thisfreaking drip?
Who's got a bad rap?
Link up with this freaking drip?
Who's got a bad rap?
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Maybe she had an altruistic reason.
I'm distracted, I'm sorry.
I'm sitting looking out mywindow and there's a squirrel
that's on its back.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (49:58):
alive, it's alive.
He's playing like a dog wouldwith a stick.
Oh cute stick and he's liketossing it around and rolling
around and I'm just okay cute,like my adhd, okay, anyway, I've
got to stop looking y'all,we're the type of people that
are like oh, something shinyliterally okay well, I guess
(50:22):
that brings us then to ourmedical mishap for the week.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
um, this medical mishap was sent in and the
writer requested to stayanonymous.
So let's get into that.
Let's get into that.
Hello, anonymous friend.
All right, set the scene.
It's an ER shift, okay.
(50:50):
So the writer writes Okay.
It was a typical chaotic shiftin the emergency room, but one
case would stand out amongst therest, leaving everyone baffled
and relieved at the same time.
A young child was brought in byconcerned parents reporting
strange symptoms.
The child was hearing voicesand, most unsettling of all,
(51:11):
complained that something orsomeone was eating their brain.
As a team of emergency roomdoctors, my colleagues and I
initially suspected a possibleneurological condition such as
schizophrenia, but we wereprepared to keep an open mind.
Before meeting the family, Ireceived the nursing report.
(51:33):
The child's condition wasalarming.
Despite the troublingpsychological complaints, there
were signs of physical distressas well.
The child's head was jerking tothe right, sharply turning
towards her shoulder.
The movements were so erraticthat it raised the possibility
of a neurological disorder oreven seizures.
(51:53):
But something felt off.
This didn't completely add up.
When I walked into the room tomeet the family, the child was
visibly distressed, their headtwitching violently to the right
with every movement.
Their parents wereunderstandably anxious and we
knew we needed to figure out thesource of the child's pain and
discomfort.
Given the violet head jerks andthe child's complaints of pain
(52:17):
localized to the right ear, wemade the decision to conduct an
otoscopic examination.
However, this was easier saidthan done Can relate to that.
Oh, totally, that's valid.
This child's erratic movementsmade it nearly impossible to
visualize the ear canal Beenthere.
(52:38):
Done that so many times donethat so many times.
Um, the pain seemed intense andwith no clear cause yet
identified, I suggested we trysomething that might help calm
the child long enough tocontinue our evaluation a small
dose of lidocaine drops into theear to numb the pain.
Um, a simple solution, wethought.
(53:01):
But we soon realized this wouldbe anything but simple.
It took six nurses six togently restrain the child long
enough to administer thelidocaine drops.
The room was filled withtension as we held our breaths,
hoping that this would providesome relief.
Within moments, the childseemed to be calm, calmer.
(53:21):
Sorry, that's not what theywrote.
The child seemed to calmslightly, but nothing.
Sorry, that's not what theywrote.
Um, the child seemed to calmslightly, but nothing could have
prepared us for what happenednext.
In a sudden shocking movement,an earwig, a real live earwig,
shot out of the child's earcanal like a missile.
Oh, that's my worst.
(53:44):
I just made a makeshift paperbag with my hands and started
like yeah, no, I'mhyperventilating over here um
there was a collective gaspthroughout the room, followed by
startled screams, some from thenurses and others from the
parents who had witnessed thebizarre spectacle.
It was for real.
(54:04):
It was as if a scene from ahorror film had come to life
right before our eyes.
The insect had evidently beenburrowing deep inside the canal,
causing the child severe painand discomfort oh, the poor baby
, yeah, oh, my god just likethat.
The child went from writhing inpain to sitting up calmly, no
longer indicating any discomfort.
(54:25):
The erratic head jerking ceasedand the psychological
complaints disappeared as well.
It was a strange and almostsurreal conclusion to a puzzle
that had started with such aserious medical concern.
We took a moment to processwhat had just occurred.
The earwig's presence had beenthe unassuming culprit all along
, and the bizarre neurologicalsymptoms had been nothing more
(54:47):
than the child's body'sdesperate attempt to signal that
something was terribly wrong.
Once the earwig was expelled,the child's symptoms vanished
entirely.
In the end, what we thoughtmight be a complex psychiatric
case turned out to be a rare andstartling example of how
something as simple as an insectcan cause a cascade of symptoms
(55:07):
that can easily bemisinterpreted as a neurological
disorder.
The relief in the room waspalpable and, as strange as it
may seem, everyone who had beena part of this case nurses,
doctors and family alike leftwith a newfound appreciation for
the unpredictability ofmedicine.
And while this isn't youraverage er story, it was
(55:29):
certainly one that no one wouldsoon forget, and not your
typical medical mishap story,but more of a medical mystery
that I felt compelled to share.
Hope it brings some laughs oh mygosh, thank you, that was
amazing, my worst nightmare too,I know they couldn't look in
the ear, but my worst nightmareto look in an ear and like see a
(55:50):
bug and have it jump out at you, that poor child, oh my gosh,
and I mean thank goodness itwasn't a neurological disorder.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
But yeah, you have to wonder, like like something's
eating my brain.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yeah, the earwig man, the kid was totally right and,
like we've all seen an earwig,there's munchers on the front.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
There's little pinchers.
God, I've got chills and myears standing up in the back of
my neck.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Those things Gosh.
Those pinches hurt.
I got pinched by an earwig once.
Those pinches hurt, I gotpinched by an earwig once.
Oh, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Thank you again for sending that Eek, thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Anandas, and since we all just learned we're doing a
two-pata and you've kind ofalready told us what we can
expect, I abruptly just cuty'all off.
This is where I will tell y'allto not miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow doctoringthe truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts for stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
(56:51):
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at doctoring the truth,
at buzzsproutcom.
Email us your own story, ideas,comments, medical mishaps or
medical mysteries at doctoringthe truth, at gmailcom.
And be sure to follow us oninstagram and or facebook, or
both, or all the things atdoctoring the truth, and we're
(57:12):
also on tiktok.
Hey, um, don't forget todownload, rate and review so we
can be sure to bring you morecontent next week.
Until then, my friends, staysafe and stay suspicious,
suspicious, suspicious,suspicious.
(57:32):
Okay, bye, bye.
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