April 23, 2025 • 67 mins
Beneath the noble veneer of "donating your body to science" lies a disturbing truth—an entirely unregulated industry where human remains are bought, sold, and shipped like commodities. This episode pulls back the curtain on America's body broker industry, revealing how donated bodies often end up dismembered, sold for profit, and used in ways donors never imagined or consented to.
From historical grave robbers like Burke and Hare who murdered for medical specimens, to modern-day scandals at prestigious institutions like Harvard Medical School, we trace the evolution of this shadowy trade. You'll discover why it's currently more regulated to sell a hot dog on a street corner than to traffic in human remains, and how a single donated body can generate up to $100,000 when sold piece by piece.
We share shocking case studies: a Colorado funeral home that secretly sold bodies while returning fake ashes to grieving families; a respected ENT doctor shipping human heads via commercial carriers; and an organized network that treats human remains like fast-food inventory. Most disturbingly, we reveal how these operations are largely legal due to massive regulatory gaps that have persisted for decades.
The consequences are profound—not just for the dignity of the deceased, but for grieving families who discover their loved ones' remains were treated as merchandise instead of contributing to medical advancement. As one industry insider admitted, "If you can print a shipping label, you can move a human head."
Ready to protect yourself and your loved ones? Listen to discover what reforms experts recommend and the critical questions to ask if you're considering body donation. Share this episode to help expose a system that desperately needs transparency and accountability.
Sources for today’s episode include:
Reuters Investigates: In the U.S. market for human bodies, anyone can sell the donated dead
Denver7 investigates: Selling body parts: Colorado's secret black market industry
Body Brokers, 2006. Ann Cheney
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
amanda jona, hey yo how you doing.
I'm great.
Are you better than I am?
Can you tell I'm better thanlast week?
I can tell that you are muchbetter than last week I am much
better.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
But you know we've gone from virus cold flu season
to I know they kind of just bledinto each other flu season to.
I know they kind of just bledinto each other.
They do, so there's a lot ofsnuffling happening.
I was driving myself nuts,which you know when you're
driving yourself nuts thatperhaps it's really even that
much more exponentially annoyingto the listeners.
(00:37):
Uh, with my sniffling.
So I'm gonna try not to do that.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I will say you did a great job editing out my
sniffles.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Last time I was, I like knew where there would be a
sniffle and and I was like, ohshit, it's gone she's like bloop
I've learned, like the, the thespeech envelope or the the
acoustic envelope of a sniffle,and I actually I actually
screenshotted it, dear listeners, and sent it to her and I was
(01:05):
like look, how cute your sniff,yeah I should actually post that
and it's a cute little yeah, uh, well, we all, we all geek out
over different things, right?
for sure, for sure hearingscience is your thing I guess I
guess so should have been aspeech therapy no I was gonna
(01:27):
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I might not be able to help myself.
I liked it.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, at some point we'll do a, we'll do a live and
then people, the listeners, willbe able to see, uh, some of the
uh ad hoc stuff that goes onhere, this will be in the past
when you hear this episodelisteners, but I did just post
on instagram story on doctoringthe truth podcast on instagram
(04:33):
um a picture of my little podset up here.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So it says on mondays we record so oh, I kind of want
to see that too, because Ihaven't I haven't cracked an
invite over there to your newlittle house.
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Well, you're welcome.
Whenever you just have one ofthose standing invitations, you
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You just drive on over A little knock-knock-a-roo.
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Raven will let me know you're here, yes you will.
I have very much been lookingforward to this episode Black
Market Bodies.
I have very much been lookingforward to this episode Black
market bodies.
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
me.
Yes, Well, thank you.
Like I said I, after the lastfew episodes, I kind of wanted
to do something lighthearted,but it's not lighthearted, but
it's just different.
So here we go Today onDoctoring the Truth.
We'll go inside the chillingworld of black market body
brokers, where the line betweenI like that.
(05:30):
I have a bit of a cold still, soI can kind of get into that,
really like grainy dirty, likeblack market body broker.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you creepy, where theline between donation and
exploitation disappears, okay,but seriously there's a trigger
(05:51):
warning for those who need it.
This episode covers someparticularly gruesome
descriptions of human remains.
I try not to go into too muchdetail, but if this is a topic
you find disturbing, I put putin my notes.
You may want to listen toreruns.
Obviously, you want to catch upon our podcast.
This is episode lucky 13.
So if you haven't listened tothe first 12, you're missing out
(06:13):
.
Go back.
Maybe you don't want to hearabout body parts.
However, if you have listened,I would suggest going over to
our friends.
Uh, I wish they were friends ofthe podcast.
Maybe someday they will be.
But our Morbid Girls, who todaystarted their Zodiac Killer
series.
I can't believe they haven'tdone it already.
(06:34):
So, yeah, go listen to Morbid,all right.
So sources for today's episodeinclude Reuters Investigates,
cbs, denver 7 Denver seveninvestigates in a book called
body brokers in 2006 by AnnChaney.
Remaining sources will be citedin our show notes.
Listeners, it's harder to sellhot dogs on a street corner than
(06:55):
it is to sell a human body inAmerica.
That's not an exaggeration,that's a quote from someone
who's actually done it Not sella hot dog, but sold a body.
So to sell a hot dog, you needa permit, a license and a food
safety plan, but to sell humanremains, eh, no need.
You'd think donating your bodyto science would be a noble act
(07:18):
that helps medical studentslearn or researchers make
life-saving discoveries.
But what if I told you, behindclosed doors, those bodies, like
your grandmother's, yourneighbor's and even yours one
day, are being carved up, soldoff and shipped across the
country, often with no oversightat all no license, no
(07:42):
inspections, no oversight.
Thousands of Americans donatetheir bodies to science every
year, hoping to contribute tomedical breakthroughs.
But many of those bodies areending up dismembered, boxed and
(08:03):
shipped to labs, trainingcenters and even military bases.
Some are sold for profit andsome are desecrated, some
disappear.
The idea of donating your bodyafter death can be comforting.
It feels like a way to giveback to help future doctors
learn and scientists studydiseases.
(08:23):
Most people assume theirremains will go to a medical
school or research institution,but there's a whole other side
to this world, a murky,under-regulated network of
businesses that harvest,dismember and sell body parts
for profit.
According to a ReutersInvestigates report, dozens of
these companies are in theUnited States.
They call themselvesnon-transplant tissue banks.
They call themselvesnon-transplant tissue banks, and
(08:45):
while organ transplants aretightly controlled by federal
law, whole body donations arepractically unregulated.
Many of these operations arelegal technically, but the
ethics?
That's where things fall apart.
This episode explores a largelyhidden and unregulated world of
underground body brokers,tracing the practice from its
(09:12):
origins in 19th century graverobbing to the modern-day
multi-billion dollar industry ofhuman body part commodification
.
Let's examine this dark butthriving marketplace further.
The trade in human bodies hasexisted in the shadows for
centuries.
While the use of cadavers inmedical education and research
has been essential to scientificprogress, the line between
ethical use and exploitation isoften perilously thin In the
(09:35):
modern world.
With advances in transportation, preservation and digital
commerce, the sale of humanremains has evolved into a
complex industry involvingfuneral homes, tissue banks,
educational institutions andunderground brokers.
Now, unlike organ donation,which is tightly regulated by
the federal government, wholebody donation for research
(09:58):
exists in a kind of legal grayzone.
Anyone can start a bodydonation business, no license
required, no federal inspectionand in some states like Colorado
, not even a funeral director'slicense is needed to broker
human remains of non-transplanttissue banks.
So let's look at the historicalbackground.
(10:22):
In the early 19th century,edinburgh was a city of
dualities.
It was a hub of enlightenment,thinking home to some of the
finest minds in medicine,science and philosophy, but it
was also a city of shadows,where poverty and disease
thrived.
Medical schools in Edinburghwere among the best in the world
, but they faced a peculiarproblem.
(10:42):
They needed bodies, the world.
But they faced a peculiarproblem they needed bodies.
Cadavers were essential forteaching anatomy and the law.
It only allowed the use ofexecuted criminals, with only a
few executions a year.
Supply did not meet demand.
That gap gave rise to a newprofession the resurrectionists
body snatchers, who dug up freshgraves by night and delivered
(11:05):
cadavers to medical schools bymorning.
Enter William Burke and WilliamHare, two Irish immigrants
living in Edinburgh's Westport,scraping by in the working-class
underbelly of the city.
Their journey into the macabrebegan not in a graveyard but in
a boarding house.
A fellow lodger died of naturalcauses and Hare saw an
(11:26):
opportunity.
With Burke's help, he sold thebody to Dr Robert Knox, a
prominent anatomist at EdinburghMedical School, the payment
Over seven pounds severalmonths' wages at the time.
That transaction sparked anidea why wait for people to die
naturally when you could speedup the process?
(11:49):
Between 1827 and 1828, burke andHare killed at least 16 people.
Their method was chillinglyefficient.
They suffocated their victimswithout leaving visible marks.
This became known as quoteburking end quote.
Victims were often vulnerablethe elderly, the ill, sex
(12:10):
workers and alcoholics, peoplewhose disappearances would raise
little alarm.
They lured the victims withalcohol or shelter, killed them
and delivered the bodies to DrKnox.
Knox, it seemed, asked fewquestions.
The murders went undetected formonths.
Some suspected, but few daredto speak.
After all, who could imaginemurder for science?
(12:32):
It all unraveled when theykilled a woman named Margaret
Dougherty.
Neighbors grew suspicious andpolice were called.
When the body was discovered,the game was up.
Hair turned informant inexchange for immunity and burke
stood trial.
On christmas eve, 1828, burkewas found guilty and sentenced
to death.
Yeah, ironically, his body wasdissected and displayed.
(12:55):
A final, grim, poetic twist.
Listen, it always pays to bethe first one to spill to get
that, to get that sweet, sweetdeal.
Get that deal, buddy.
I mean, that's so unfair.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
One of them lived and the other one was yeah I think
they both should have beendonated to science right, and
then dr knox.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
He faced no charges, of course well, of course not
his reputation suffered, butlegally he walked free.
This case horrified the public.
In response, the britishparliament passed the anatomy
act of 1832.
It allowed medical schools touse unclaimed bodies from
workhouses and hospitals a legal, if troubling, source.
(13:38):
But the birkenhead case shapedthe ethics of body donation.
It forced society to confrontthe balance between scientific
progress and human dignity.
In the Americas, in the UnitedStates, the demand for cadavers
surged through, especiallythrough the Civil War era, with
battlefield surgeons requiringcorpses for surgical training.
(13:59):
By the late 1800s, anatomicallegislation allowed medical
schools to acquire unclaimedbodies, particularly from
prisons and poorhouses.
Notice a theme here.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
The marginalized, the destitute.
So these policiesinstitutionalized class-based
exploitation, making theindigent disproportionately
subject to dissection.
As scientific research andmedical training became more
formalized in the 20th century,the need for cadavers increased.
This demand, coupled withinconsistent regulation, led to
(14:33):
the rise of commercialbodybrokers.
These intermediaries beganacquiring donations under vague
terms, slicing corpses intosellable parts and distributing
them to buyers ranging fromuniversities to weapons
manufacturers.
Today, body brokers oftenpresent themselves as legitimate
medical donation programs.
Families are offered freecremation in exchange for
(14:57):
donating their loved one's bodyto science.
However, many are unaware thatthe body may be dissected and
sold piece by piece to multiplebuyers.
Be dissected and sold piece bypiece to multiple buyers.
Common destinations couldinclude medical training
programs like orthopedic ordental schools, surgical device
manufacturers, crash testfacilities and military testing
(15:18):
programs.
Oh my gosh.
So let's break this down.
You or a loved one die, yourbody's donated to science,
perhaps to a local facility thatpromises to be used for noble
medical research, but you don'tknow that the science might be
plastic surgery in Las Vegas orcrash test simulations or, in
(15:38):
some cases, nothing medical atall.
Quote it's like the wild west.
There are no rules.
End quote, says one formerworker in the body trade.
Quote you get the rightpaperwork and can ship a torso
anywhere.
End quote.
One Reuters investigation founda warehouse in Detroit with
rotting human remains stored inmoldy coolers.
In Arizona, a raid uncovered acooler filled with male
(16:02):
genitalia, a bucket of heads anda Frankenstein-like torso sewn
together from multiple donors.
These aren't urban legends.
These are court-documentedfacts.
This is a business and, likeany business, it's driven by
profit.
Bodies are dismembered, cutapart and sold piece by piece.
A head might go for $500, atorso $2,000.
(16:24):
A whole body can be worth$10,000 or more when divided.
Brokers charge clients handlingfees that resemble market
prices.
So a whole torso $3,000 to$5,000, head $600 to $900, limbs
$300 to $1,200 each and spine$1,500.
These prices reflect not onlythe cost of processing and
(16:45):
shipping, but also the growingdemand for specialized
anatomical specimens.
In some cases a single body canbe worth over $100,000 when
dissected and sold in parts.
And these parts aren't justsold once.
They can be leased and resoldmultiple times, crossing state
and even international borders,multiple times crossing state
(17:09):
and even international borders.
The I see you shaking your head, I don't know, gasping for air,
if you, if you, want to saysomething?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm trying not to interrupt, but yeah, there's a
lot of jaw dropping going onover here.
It's like what?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
me too.
I couldn't believe this stuff.
So these brokers oftenadvertise themselves as helping
families in need.
This stuff.
So these brokers oftenadvertise themselves as helping
families in need, offering freecremation in exchange for a
donation.
But that cremation might notinclude all the original body
parts.
Some families get got backashes, but when investigators
tested them, they found theyweren't even.
They weren't even human remains.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Oh, okay, that's what I was kind of wondering and I
was gonna talk about this at theend, but I was like, okay, so
maybe like a couple body partswere donated and missing it,
like you would never know if youdidn't get it all back.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But now you're not even getting back human remains
I could just burn my recyclingand put that in and earn.
I mean these poor families yeah, no idea so now it's time for a
chart.
No, chart note.
We're a couple of catscaterwalling.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I know I was going to say we're definitely not
harmonizing at all, just like abunch of alley cats out here,
right?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
chart note.
I kind of like that aestheticcouple of alley cats here.
Listen, this alley cat is goingto talk to you about a chart
note where we learn somethingabout what's happening in
medicine and health carepotential new treatment for
parkinson's disease, which iscalled which is um acronymized
(18:38):
pd.
Is that a word?
I don't know.
Anyway, my uncle hadparkinson's disease, my dad's
older brother, and um, it's just, it's just so awful my grandpa
also had parkinson's, it ishorrible, didn't he?
it is horrible.
It's apparently the second mostcommon neurological disease
worldwide, um, and it'scharacterized by the progressive
(18:59):
loss of neurons that producedopamine.
And although current treatmentslike levodopa can alleviate
symptoms in the early stages,their efficacy declines and
they're often accompanied byside effects like dyskinesia,
which is that uncontrolledmuscle movement.
So cell-based therapies thatreplenish dopamine neurons in
(19:20):
the brain are showing earlypromise as a potentially more
effective treatment with feweradverse effects.
The two new studies werepublished online in April 16.
In May, in a phase two out ofthree trial conducted in Japan,
seven patients with PD underwentbilateral striatial
transplantation of dopaminergicprecursor cells derived from
(19:42):
human-induced pluripotent stemcells with immunosuppression and
were monitored for 24 months.
The trial showed that the IPScell derived dopaminergic
neurons are safe and producedopamine in the brain and
ameliorate neurological symptoms.
I think it's a significantfirst step, said study
investigator Jun Takahashi MD,phd Director and Professor of
(20:07):
the Center for iPS Cell Researchand Application in Kyoto, japan
.
No serious adverse events werereported during the study period
and the transplanted cellsproduced dopamine without
forming tumors, which is aserious risk associated with
stem cell therapy.
Among the six patientsevaluated for efficacy, five
(20:27):
showed improvement in theMovement Disorder Society
Unified Parkinson's DiseaseRating Scale, part 3, while on
medication and when they stoppedtaking it, four continued to
show improvement.
The average changes of all sixpatients were 20.4% and 35.7%
for the off and on scoresrespectively.
(20:48):
Takahashi noted that celltransplantation can be applied
when medication for PD becomesless effective or causes side
effects.
In this sense, celltransplantation therapy is
adjunctive.
In the future, the bestscenario is that cell
transplantation alone canreplace lost dopaminergic
neurons and cure the patient.
Alone can replace lostdopaminergic neurons and cure
(21:10):
the patient, takahashi said.
In a separate phase one clinicaltrial, also published in Nature
, an off-the-shelf dopaminergicprogenitor cell project derived
from human embryonotic stemcells was grafted bilaterally
into the putamen.
The putamen is a word fromLatin meaning nutshell, and it's
the subcortical nucleus with arounded structure inside the
basal ganglia, which is likedeep inside the limbic system of
(21:34):
the brain.
So they did this in 12 patientswith Parkinson's disease from
the United States and Canada.
Five of these patients receiveda low dose and seven received a
high dose coupled with a yearof immunosuppression.
So for those listeners whodon't know, typically this
involves steroids or other suchmedication that suppress the
(21:56):
immune system to keep the bodyfrom attacking itself, but then
it also makes you morevulnerable to attack from other
you know community-borneillnesses or viruses, et cetera.
So I mean there's a riskinvolved.
But the trial achieved itsprimary objectives of safety and
tolerability up to 18 monthsafter transplant with no adverse
events related to the stem cellproduct.
(22:18):
The transplanted cells survived, became engrafted and produced
dopamine, with no evidence ofgraft-induced dyskinesias and
again, dyskinesia is involuntarymuscle movement.
The secondary and exploratoryclinical outcomes showed
improvement or stability,including scores that improved
by an average of 23 points inthe high-dose cohort, reflecting
(22:40):
improved motor function withoutParkinson's disease medication.
The author of Nature News andViews said these results are
encouraging because they showthe use of allogeneic
transplants so stem celltransplants for the treatment of
PD, and that it's likely to besafe.
To confirm their effectiveness,however, more research is
needed.
These two trials were smallOpen label studies in which both
(23:03):
the investigators and theparticipants were aware of who
received what treatment isnecessary, wrote Hideyuki Okano,
md, phd, with the KayoUniversity Regenerative Medicine
Research Center in Kawasaki,japan.
Because of this, there's apossibility that the results in
efficacy were influenced by theplacebo effect or investigator
(23:23):
bias.
Nevertheless, the fact thatboth independent trials proved
to be safe and hinted atpossible efficacy, is an
important step towards theestablishment of this cell
therapy for Parkinson's diseasein wider society.
The next stages of clinicaltrials, phases two and three,
are awaited to fully assess theefficacy of these interventions.
(23:44):
Okano concluded Commenting onthis research.
Michael Okun, md, medicalAdvisor for Parkinson's
Foundation and Director of theNormal Fixal Institute for
Neurological Diseases,university of Florida Health,
gainesville, go Gators, notedthat over the past two decades,
(24:06):
stem cells have generatedtremendous interest, excitement
and hope for Parkinson's disease.
These two most recent studiesare small but promising.
He cautioned that it's tough tojudge short and long-term
outcomes because each of the twostudies include so few subjects
.
The safety of each approach wasreassuring and one very
important finding was theabsence of runaway dyskinesia,
(24:29):
which was a showstopper forprevious Parkinson's stem cell
trials, he said.
Okun also said it's importantfor patients and families to be
wary to what has been referredto as stem cell tourism.
Okay, so here I am trying tofind an uplifting study that
says oh, we're on the verge ofpossibly an effective treatment
(24:50):
for something that's so terrible, and here we are back to
nefariousness.
So I don't know if this, youknow maybe is an idea for a
future episode, but thepublished studies are legitimate
.
He told Medscape Medical News.
But there are thousands ofclinics around the world
offering a stem cell cure forcash deal.
(25:11):
We're aware of seriouscomplications resulting from
these.
We recommend never paying foran unproven experimental
treatment.
We also recommend that beforeyou say yes to anyone
approaching you with cash for astem cell treatment, you request
copies of two criticaldocuments the Institutional
Review Board approval to conductresearch on you as a human
(25:35):
subject and also the informedconsent form.
Bring the documents to yourdoctor and healthcare team for
discussion and shareddecision-making, said Okun.
Because, why wouldn't someone?
Speaker 1 (25:48):
just try to take advantage of these people, are
you?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
kidding me.
I'm like uplifted about thisparkinson's disease and here we
are, we're back to but watch outfor the scammers medical
malfeasance.
Right, okay, so that was anunintentional another rabbit
hole that will probably go downin the future, which means this
(26:11):
podcast is unfortunately nevergoing to run out of ideas,
because there's always somethingthat's no good trafficking and
the shadow market.
The shortage of organs fortransplant is a global crisis.
While the World HealthOrganization, otherwise known as
(26:32):
WHO, estimates that 10% of allorgan transplants are performed
illegally, the real number maybe higher.
Desperate patients travelabroad for illicit surgeries and
impoverished donors are coercedor misled into giving up organs
, and impoverished donors arecoerced or misled into giving up
organs.
Transplant tourism brokers inSouth Asia, eastern Europe and
(26:55):
parts of Africa coordinatebetween poor donors, private
hospitals and wealthy patients.
These brokers often forgemedical documents, bribe
hospital staff, arrangecross-border travel and use
shell companies to launder theirprofits.
Donors often receive littleaftercare and suffer long-term
health effects, including renalfailure, infection and
psychological trauma.
(27:15):
Recipients are at risk forrejection and infection due to
unsanitary procedures.
The reach of American bodybrokers isn't confined to
domestic borders either.
Since 2008, body parts fromAmerican donors have been
exported to at least 45countries.
In nations where cultural orreligious customs limit the use
(27:36):
of their own dead for medicalpurposes, there's a high demand
for cadavers and body parts.
This international tradefurther complicates the tracking
and ethical considerations ofbody donations.
Further complicates thetracking and ethical
considerations of body donations.
Body parts from American donorshave been exported to at least
45 countries and thousands ofparts are sent abroad annually.
Demand is high in nations wherecustoms limit selling or
(27:59):
dissecting their own dead.
In US law, the National OrganTransplant Act in 1984
criminalizes the sale of humanorgans but does not regulate
body parts used for education orresearch.
The Uniform Anatomical Gift Actvaries by state and often lacks
(28:19):
enforcement mechanisms.
Tissue banks are subject to FDAoversight, but only a fraction
are inspected annually to FDAoversight, but only a fraction
are inspected annually.
International guidelinesinclude the WHO guiding
principles from 2010 thatemphasize voluntary, unpaid
donation and transparency, andthen the Declaration of Istanbul
(28:40):
in 2008 that condemns organtrafficking and transplant
tourism, urging countries tobecome self-sufficient in organ
donation.
There are many ethical issuesinvolved, such as informed
consent.
Many families are unaware thatdonation to science may involve
dismemberment and resaleCommodification.
Treating body parts as acommodity raises moral concerns
(29:05):
about human dignity andexploitation.
Poor populations aredisproportionately targeted for
organ sales and body donationschemes.
So this brings us to a casestudy.
We're going to talk about a fewdifferent examples of how this
played out In case study numberone Colorado's secret industry.
So we're going to zoom in onColorado, one of the few states
(29:28):
that doesn't regulate bodybrokers.
In a stunning investigation byDenver 7 News, journalists
uncovered one of the mostegregious examples of body
brokering, which took place inMontrose, colorado, at the
Sunset Mesa Funeral Home.
Morgan Hess, the funeral home'sdirector, alongside her mother,
shirley Cook, ran a sidebusiness on the same premises, a
(29:50):
body brokerage firm.
Families entrusted their lovedones to Sunset Mesa, believing
they would receive traditionalcremation services.
Instead, many bodies were soldwithout consent and families
were given urns filled withnon-human material.
Were given urns filled withnon-human material, according to
(30:11):
a Denver 7 reporter, for nearlya decade, two Colorado funeral
home operators illegally soldbody parts and, in some cases,
entire bodies, without familiesknowing about it, and often gave
them ashes that did not belongto their loved ones.
The FBI's investigationrevealed a macabre operation
where body parts were sold toentities across the country.
The FBI raided the premises in2018 and found over 600 body
(30:34):
parts stored in appallingconditions.
In 2020, hess and Cook wereinvited to be indicted baby.
You are invited to yourindictment I like it On charges
of mail fraud and transportationof hazardous materials.
Their actions not only violatedthe trust of grieving families,
(30:55):
but also highlighted theglaring gaps in regulation that
allowed such practices toflourish unchecked.
Case study number two sciencecare, the McDonald's model of
body brokering.
Oh my gosh, if the idea of bodybrokers still feels abstract,
let's talk about one of thebiggest names in the industry
(31:16):
ScienceCare.
Founded in 2000 andheadquartered in Arizona,
sciencecare isn't a backroomoperation.
It's a multi-million dollarcorporation and arguably the
most well-known body broker inthe United States.
It pioneered a model that looksless like a medical donation
center and more like a nationallogistics chain, borrowing
efficiency principles straightfrom companies like FedEx or
(31:37):
McDonald's.
Sciencecare has developed whatit describes as a national donor
program, with refrigeratedtrucks, regional dissection
centers and a seamlessinfrastructure that allows it to
receive, process and ship humanremains across the country
quickly and profitably.
Their marketing promises thatdonated bodies will be used
(31:59):
exclusively for legitimatemedical research and education,
and many times that's exactlywhat happens.
Body parts are used for surgicaltraining, prosthetic testing
and anatomy programs, butcritics argue that ScienceCare's
scale and profit-driven modelhighlight the very problem with
the lack of regulation.
According to investigativereporting by Reuters, former
(32:22):
employees described an operationrun like a fast food franchise,
with quotas, sales goals andhigh-pressure logistics to keep
up with demand.
One former worker said we wereencouraged not to think about
the donor as a person.
We were told to keep itclinical and efficient Move
product.
I'm dying Listeners.
(32:44):
That product could be ashoulder, a leg or even a whole
torso destined for a surgicallab or medical device training
in another state or country.
In 2016, reuters reported thatScienceCare had received
accreditation from the AmericanAssociation of Tissue Banks but,
unlike organ donation, thisaccreditation is entirely
voluntary and doesn't substitutefederal oversight.
(33:06):
No federal law requirescompanies like ScienceCare to be
certified, inspected or evenlicensed in most states.
So, while ScienceCare appears tobe more polished than the
horror stories like Sunset Mesa,the fundamental issue remains
there's a massive, mostlyunregulated system of profiting
off of donated human remains,and even the most legit players
(33:28):
operate in a legal vacuum.
So how is this legal?
The short answer is because noone's really watching.
The short answer is because noone's really watching.
There's no national registry,no system to track remains, no
regulatory requirements toinform families and or obtain
consent, and, in most states, nogovernment body checks what
(33:49):
happens once that cadaver leavesthe donor site.
That's how people like Hessoperated for years, unnoticed,
unchecked and unpunished, untilsomeone finally spoke out.
Some states like New York,virginia and California have
added their own laws, but othersnothing.
Take Colorado, for example.
Until recently, there were zerostate laws regulating this
industry.
(34:09):
That made it a hotspot for someof the worst abuse cases we've
seen and, as you've heard, thosecases weren't just unethical,
they were deeply criminal.
A CBS News investigation foundbrokers labeling boxes, quote
medical research end quote andshipping them via FedEx oh my
god.
Sometimes internationally, butwith almost no scrutiny.
(34:31):
One employee interview put itbluntly quote if you can print a
shipping label, you can move ahuman head.
I'm so stressed.
Those are words I never thoughtI would say.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
God.
So I started looking at some ofthese moving companies, like
some of these transportationservices, and I came across
Airways Freight Corporation.
And I came across AirwaysFreight Corporation and this is
a company that on their websitesays they offer domestic trade
shows and anatomical services,such as same-day expediters,
(35:05):
flatbeds and oversized freighttrailers, panel vans,
refrigerated products, specialescorts and single-team or team
driver services.
It also provides internationalservices, including trade show
services, such as pre-showliaison, documentation and site
agent, pre-advice, site support,post-show disposal and return
(35:25):
shipments.
So this company is referenced inthe book Body Brokers that I
talked about and in her book,chaney interviewed Mike Nimmo,
who was at the time themarketing director of this
company, airways Brokers, and hesaid that about 80 body and
this was in 2006.
So who knows it's like twodecades later and how much
(35:46):
exponentially it's changed.
But at the time he said thatthere was about 80 body part
shipments a month usingcommercial airlines, fedex and
UPS, and he's like I don't knowif I should be talking about
this because I don't think thepublic realize that these
products are being shippedthrough the general system.
Yeah, and I'm sure that innovember 2003 fedex employees in
(36:08):
maplewood, missouri, wouldagree with that.
They noticed an unmarkedpackage along with, oh my god,
two others bound for the same.
Oh my God.
Oh, I'm so stressed, I'm justthinking, reporter.
(36:33):
Well, boxes break, shrug emoji.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I'm just thinking also like what if it got
delivered to the wrong addressand you had a head show up at
your house?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It's just horrific, all of it is.
And then there's the familiesto think about, people like
Wendy, who was cited in the book.
She donated her mother's body,believing it would help cure a
disease, but instead hermother's torso was sold to a
medical device company and therest of her remains were never
(37:04):
returned.
One man learned that hisfather's body was sold to the us
military for explosive testing.
Another family only found outthe truth years later when
investigators knocked on thedoor.
I mean, they're not just bodiestheir parents, grandparents,
siblings.
For many families, thisbetrayal cuts deep.
So case number three is one ofour own, amanda.
It's about an ENT yeah, yournose and throat doctor.
On July 24th 1986, ups workersat the Stanford Field Sorting
(37:31):
Center in Louisville, kentucky.
Or, if I was going to be yourco-worker, louisville, indiana.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
she says Louisville.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Kentucky, or, if I was going to be your co-worker,
lowell, lowellville, indiana.
She says Lowellville,lowellville, kentucky.
They were inspecting cargo foran overnight flight when they
spotted several boxes fromPhiladelphia marked aerosol Now,
ups won't transport aerosolcontainers so the workers
removed the boxes.
That's when they noticed asmell.
God, it was a sweet, overripesmell, like something had
(38:02):
spoiled, like meat perhaps, andthe boxes were also leaking.
Better open them up.
The workers thought no, nestled, don't, uh, nestled inside were
five human heads wrapped inplastic.
They looked alive, but fortheir severed necks, which oozed
a rancid bloody fluid, theirworkers were appalled.
(38:26):
Obviously, and before longphones were ringing at dr
richard greathouse office.
He was a local coroner.
He'd seen plenty of strangecases in his 29 years on the job
, but this was one of theweirdest he'd seen.
Yet he said I love this quotesomething really hokey was going
on.
Hokey, that's what you call abunch of severed heads in a box
(38:47):
and you do the hokey pokey andyou ship the head right.
You put your head in, your headout, your fat exit out and you
shake it overnight shipping ohmy gosh.
So of course you jumped to theconclusion that somebody
murdered these people and wastrying to get rid of the
(39:07):
evidence.
I mean, wouldn't you?
uh, yeah, I would be mf-ing,mortified for the rest of my
life so great house called thephiladelphia Department and in a
matter of hours detectivestraced the boxes to a four-story
Philadelphia mansion in theelegant tree-lined street of
Rittenhouse Square.
The limestone mansion was hometo Dr Martin Spector, a
(39:31):
well-known ENT, who livedupstairs with his wife and used
the bottom floors of his houseas his office, inside in a
second a second floorrefrigerator.
Are you ready for this?
no, I don't think so I orderedpizza that's waiting for me and
I'm all of a sudden I wasliterally just thinking thank
god.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I'm like on an empty stomach because I feel a little
nausea I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I mean, it's for the greater good.
Right, we got to educate ourlisteners.
Inside in a second floorrefrigerator, homicide detective
daniel rosenstein and hispartners found eight pairs of
frozen ears not the ears theyalso found an order for 17
(40:17):
frozen arms and half heads withbrains what from a boulder half
half heads with brains, so I'massuming they just wanted half
the skull.
yeah gosh, from a boulder,colorado research institute.
When, uh, the detectives askedspecter about this, the elderly
doctor conceded that he'd beenshipping ears and heads around
(40:38):
the country to doctors andresearchers for I don't know,
going on 15 years, but herefused to name his source,
besides saying that he got theparts from a pathologist I was
going to say pathological psycho, but pathologist assistant.
One of Spector's formersecretaries recalled the
(40:59):
dichotomy of knowing that therewere patients sitting in the
pleasant waiting area browsingmagazines while upstairs staff
were packing body parts intoboxes.
For the UPS guy they used tojoke about his side hustle
during coffee breaks.
There was a time when some ofhis heads fell off a ups truck
and rolled down the street.
Are they kidding?
(41:20):
no, oh my god the local medicalcommunity's general census.
After news broken out about thebody bits discovered at the
mansion was that dr specter hadlost his everlasting mind and
was perhaps time for him toretire, his privileges at the
(41:40):
University of PennsylvaniaSchool of Medicine were
suspended while theinvestigation continued.
A search of Spector's downtownoffice revealed the names of
several employees of localmedical schools and a morgue
worker Morgue workers that move.
The bodies are called Diend-i-n-e-r is the german word
anyway uh from the university ofpennsylvania, whom specter
(42:03):
admitted he had enticed tosupply him with parts.
The men stole the body partsfrom dismembered medical school
cadavers and autopsied bodies inthe morgue.
Soon, linward summerswardSummers of the University of
Pennsylvania Hospital wasarrested after confessing that
he'd been supplying Spector withstolen body parts for 10 years,
earning $150 per head, $65 anarm and $20 for a set of ears.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Only $10 for one ear.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Come on, that was my first thought.
It was like why?
Why are the ears not worth muchmore?
Anyway, on some occasions hesaid he made as much as $2,000
in cash just for one delivery.
Summers harvested the parts fromcorpses that had undergone
autopsies at the hospital, butweren't donors Gross.
(42:53):
So Pennsylvania is one of thefew states that prohibit the
exportation of body parts.
Go pennsylvania, I've beenthere.
Law, I mean yeah, you have.
Uh.
The law also requires thatanyone receiving a donated body
have a license from the state,which specter did not, and the
philadelphia district attorneycharged the employees, dieter
(43:13):
and specter, with conspiracy,theft, receiving stolen property
, abuse of a corpse andviolating the health code by
shipping body parts out of thestate.
Specter lost his medicallicense and the others were all
fired from their jobs.
The Specter scandal was thefirst of many to come.
Many medical schools haveexploited their generous donors
repeatedly.
(43:33):
The families of people whodonate their bodies to medical
schools rarely know anythingabout their destination.
The consent forms they sign arelikely vague and many of the
donors are trusting people,assuming that medical
institutions and physicians willnot betray them.
Case number four even Havid,the morgue scandal that shocked
(43:54):
academia.
So, speaking of institutions.
When we think of eliteinstitutions, places like
Harvard Medical School we assumethat layers of integrity,
accountability and honor, but in2023, that image was shattered.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
The scandal began quietly.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Recent Whispers, yeah , a federal investigation.
And then a headline thatstunned the medical community
Harvard Medical School morguemanager accused of stealing and
selling human remains.
For years, cedric Lodge servedas the morgue manager at
Harvard's anatomical giftprogram.
He had access to bodies donatedin good faith individuals who
(44:31):
believed they were helping toeducate future surgeons and
researchers.
But behind the scenes, lodgewas running a grotesque site
operation.
According to the federalindictment, he removed dissected
parts from cadavers, includingheads, brains, skin and bones,
and sold them to collectors,educators and even
self-described oddities dealers.
Some transactions were arrangedvia Facebook and PayPal.
(44:56):
Others were more macabre.
One buyer was accused oftanning human skin to create
leather.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Okay, puts the lotion on the skin.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Another allegedly purchased two dissected faces
and displayed them at home.
Lodge, even invited some ofthese buyers into the morgue
itself, allowing them to selectwhich remains they wanted to
purchase.
You know, little browsing,little window shopping.
A federal prosecutor called itan affront to human dignity.
I mean, some of this is edgainsey right, like, didn't he
(45:32):
make a purse out of his mom'syes, hoo-ha, or something anyway
?
Um, or a purse out of his mom'syes, hoo-ha, or something
Anyway.
Or a belt out of her chichas?
Yeah, I like my scientificterms.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Chichas.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
So disgusting.
So it wasn't just Lodge Hiswife and multiple
co-conspirators across severalstates were indicted, and their
transactions spanned years andinvolved tens of thousands of
dollars, all sourced from bodiesentrusted to one of the most
respected institutions in theworld.
For Harvard, the fallout wasenormous.
The school called it a betrayalof the Harvard Medical School
(46:08):
community and immediately shutdown the morgue and restructured
the donor program.
But the scandal raised achilling question If this can
happen at Harvard, with theworld watching what's going on
at smaller institutions, privatebrokers or funeral homes where
no one's watching, the truth, noone really knows improper
(46:32):
documentation not for sellingthe bodies themselves, because
technically, that part's.
Legal Lawmakers have proposedreforms, including mandatory
licensing, inspections andconsent forms, but only a few
states have enacted seriousregulations.
So far.
There's no federal law stoppinganyone from starting a body
broker business tomorrow, andthat's what makes us so
dangerous.
(46:52):
Every day, bodies are donatedwith good intentions and some of
those bodies enter a systembuilt for profit and not ethics.
Before the networks caught on,before the FBI raided funeral
homes and before Harvard's namewas dragged into the body trade,
there was a journalist namedAnnie Cheney.
Back in 2003, cheney publishedan article in Harper's Magazine
(47:13):
called the Resurrection Men,which eventually became the
foundation for her chilling 2006book Body Brokers Inside
America's Underground Trade andHuman Remains.
Cheney was one of the first todive into this underground
economy.
Her reporting didn't just focuson policy or law.
It focused on people, on grief,on betrayal.
She told stories of familieswho donated a loved one's body
(47:36):
for noble causes, only to laterdiscover it had been dismembered
, sold or dumped.
One case she uncovered was thatof a man whose widow believed
that his body was donated tomedical research.
In truth, his head was sold toa training seminar and his arms
and legs shipped to varioussurgical device companies.
None of it was communicated,none of it was consensual and it
(47:57):
wasn't an outlier.
This was the system.
Cheney documented how bodybrokers preyed upon the poor,
the grieving and the uninformed.
Many brokers would approachfamilies under the guise of
medical research, promisingdignity, cremation and closure,
but then turn around and makethousands by slicing and selling
the body to the highest bidder.
In an interview, cheney saidit's not the donation itself
(48:21):
that's the problem, it's thesecrecy, it's the lies.
These families wanted to dosomething meaningful and instead
they were exploited.
Cheney's work came years beforenational media really caught on
.
She sounded the alarm and for awhile not many listened.
But today, nearly two decadeslater, the stories she uncovered
remain painfully relevant.
(48:42):
Her book was the one that gaveus the term we use today still
body brokers people who profitoff the dead in the absence of
regulation, in the shadows ofscience and sometimes in plain
sight.
After everything we've uncoveredthe scandals, the profit
motives, the lies one thingbecomes painfully clear the US
body donation system is brokenand it's not enough to expose
(49:05):
the problems.
We need to talk about solutionsIf we want to protect the
dignity of donors, if we want toensure families aren't
exploited, if we want to bringscience and ethics back into an
alignment, then reform is notoptional, it's essential.
So here are fourrecommendations that experts,
ethicists and investigators havecalled for, and they're long
overdue, in my opinion.
Number one transparency andtracking.
(49:28):
Imagine if we could trace abody from donation to final use,
just like you track a packagein the mail.
A national registry could dothat.
Every donor, every transfer,every dissection verified,
logged and accessible to thefamily and regulators.
Some tech advocates have evenproposed blockchain-based
identifiers to make trackingtamper-proof and publicly
auditable.
(49:49):
No more backroom deals, no morevanishing cadavers.
Number two standardized consentforms.
Right now, consent documentsvary wildly from one body broker
to another.
Many are vague, some don'tmention resale, some don't
mention export.
So there should be a federalrequirement for clear, uniform
consent forms, forms that spellout exactly what could happen to
(50:10):
a donated body, includingwhether it can be dismembered,
sold for profit or shippedoverseas, and unless that
consent is clearly given, thenthose actions should be illegal.
Number three stricter oversight.
Today, organ donation is highlyregulated by the US Department
of Health and Human Services,but when it comes to the
full-body donations, the FDA haslittle to no authority.
(50:31):
That has to change.
Every non-transplant tissuebank should be licensed, audited
and inspected, just like anyfacility handing human material.
Penalties for violating donorconsent or selling body parts
illegally should be severe andenforceable.
I mean, we have rules for howto handle biohazard waste.
Why don't we have strongerrules for actually handling
(50:53):
human beings?
Number four internationalcooperation.
The body trade is not just anAmerican problem.
Cadaver parts are bought andsold across borders every day.
We need to push forinternational treaties that
regulate the trade of humanremains, just like we do with
human trafficking and organharvesting.
The Declaration of Istanbul,drafted in 2008, provides a
(51:15):
strong ethical framework, butnot every country has ratified
it.
The US can take the lead inbuilding cross-border
investigative teams to identifytrafficking rings, shut down
shady exporters and ensure thatdonation never becomes a front
for exploitation.
If there's one thing we'velearned, it's that transparency
is power, and when people knowthe truth, they can make
(51:36):
informed decisions, they canprotect their families, they can
advocate for change.
But secrecy secrecy is thecurrency of the body brokers.
So ask questions, demandanswers.
If you or a loved one isconsidering body donation, read
the fine print, call theorganization, ask where the body
will go ask what they'll dowith it, and don't accept vague
(51:59):
assurances.
Behind every headline, behindevery broken promise, is a real
person who thought they weredoing the right thing.
They deserve better, and we oweit to them and ourselves to
make sure the system does better.
We need these changes in orderto ensure respect for the dead
while advancing care for theliving, and once again I've gone
(52:21):
down a rabbit hole of acompassion plea that I didn't
even know I had.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
And that's a wrap but as you were reading those four
ideas in my head, I was likeperiod, exclamation, point,
period, underline, boldunderline, underline like um.
Can I get an amen?
Hello louder for those in theback?
Um.
Thank you so much for bringingthis to our attention because,
(52:49):
honestly, I had no idea this wasgoing on me either and so if
people don't know what's goingon, then oh my God also how
gross and how sad.
How sad for these families.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yeah, I mean, okay, you could argue that like, okay,
well, you know, the soul's gone, it's just a shell or whatever.
But that's not up to you todecide, that's up to the
families and how they feel aboutit, and there should be some
dignity and also you should beable to have a say.
I mean, these people were beingphilanthropic by donating their
body to science, hoping for thebetterment of mankind, not to
(53:28):
line some asshole's pocket.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, yeah, and be shipped by a FedEx.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, I wanted to donate my whole body to science,
but I don't want to be FedExedall over the show dripping pink
stuff on people I know like, ahyeah, how is that helpful?
No, so it really opened my eyesdonations but I believe that
with our eyes open, we can makebetter choices in terms of
(53:57):
ensuring that what we'redonating is going towards what,
where our cause is, or ourmission for that donation and I
kind of love the idea of thetracking.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Like you get to track your package, you know, and so
then, like at the end, you getto see like oh, okay, like our
loved one was received by xcenter and like this will help,
yeah, and it doesn't have to belike for a specific, like this
is what the body part went to,but like this overarching goal
of ours will help be reached bythe, by your donation.
(54:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
It didn't go to Dr Spock.
There's a mansion.
What if?
Speaker 1 (54:33):
to be.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
FedExed off for his personal extra profit, like he's
not already making enough.
Jeez, yeah, man, I'm just sobitter about that.
Um, but yeah, I'm gonna startthinking about it now and
wondering, like, why isn't therelegislation out there about
that?
I, I know when my tide laundrydetergent has left the building
(54:54):
in chicago and when amazon hasdropped it off at our you know
intermediary center, whatever.
How could you not know?
Speaker 1 (55:02):
you're a person's human remains and um, I had to
like highlight a couple thingsthat you read um.
So some of these things werebeing sold to collectors and
oddity dealers.
Like who the fuck are thesepeople?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
First of all, I don't know if you recall the Dr
Sherman episodes where I hadbeen in New Orleans and where
did I get that book?
An oddity shop, yeah, yeah, andthere were body parts in jars
and things, but like you, don't.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
I would guess if I saw that, like that's not real,
Like someone made it out of,like a yeah, like clay or
whatever.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Oh my gosh.
Now I'm upset that the bookthat I bought might've helped
somebody buying something, andthe thing is it's not illegal.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
That blew my ever-loving mind.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, how is this?
This is a massive loophole,this is a massive oversight and,
god bless, what is it Turkeythat figured out, like in 2008,.
Like you know what guys?
We shouldn't be doing this.
Lost my notes.
Istanbul.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Istanbul.
Yeah, thank you All right.
Uh, lost my notes.
But um istanbul, istanbul,istanbul.
Yeah, thank you all right.
So we have a medical mishapsent to us from a listener um
whose name is trevor.
We can share trevor hi trevorand trevor writes hi with a
(56:40):
bunch of eyes and exclamationpoints and I vibe with that.
So, hi, trevor, they say oh, mygod, first of all, I love you
guys so much, thank you.
Thank you, I love you too,trevor.
Trevor, hi, um, they say I lookforward to tuning in each week
and I'll admit that I do singalong to Chard Note, bless.
(57:06):
I love that.
I've actually had other peopletell me that they sing along to
Chard Note too, so I love that.
Just a bunch of us alley catsout here and people are vibing
with it.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
So then they write so I'm in my mid-30s, right, same,
not exactly an athlete Same,I'm just kidding, but not
exactly falling apart either, orso I thought One evening.
I'm chilling on the couch,snacking on some Cheetos, living
my best low effort life.
One of the Cheetos slipsbetween the cushions and in a
(57:42):
moment of sheer determination,or maybe desperation, I reach
for it.
Big mistake I feel this sharppull in my back, like I've just
tried to deadlift a car.
Instant regret.
Now I'm in pain and limpingaround like I'm 90.
So I go to grab what I thinkare my muscle relaxants.
(58:06):
I pop one flop back on thecouch and wait for sweet, sweet
relief.
About a half an hour later I'msweating like I just ran a
marathon.
My heart is pounding out of mychest and everything around me
starts to get weird.
Like colors are talking to me.
Weird.
My roommate walks in and findsme sitting on the floor in my
(58:28):
boxers having a very intenseconversation with a houseplant.
Apparently I was asking it forcareer advice.
Uh-oh, next stop ER.
First of all, trevor, I feellike we are friends.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
Are we friends?
Speaker 1 (58:45):
Okay.
So at the hospital, my heartrate is off the charts, my
pupils are massive and I cannotshut up.
I'm telling the nurse my lifestory and I can tell that they'd
rather have peace and quiet,but I can't stop word vomiting
out of my mouth.
It was a whole thing, aw.
After some questioning and alittle Sherlock Holmes style
(59:08):
medical sleuthing, we figuredout I accidentally took my cat's
meds.
Not just any meds kitty ADHDpills, pet grade amphetamines
what that's a.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
Thing.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Oh my gosh, I was fine, thankfully, but for the
rest of the year, the rest ofthe year and, I'm sure, for the
rest of my time of my life,everyone and I mean everyone
started calling me Whiskers.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Everyone started calling me Whiskers Trevor.
Oh, thank you Whiskers.
Thanks Whiskers.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
We're going to jump on the bandwagon.
Thank you, whiskers, our newfriend, trevor.
That was amazing and you wrotethat You're hilarious.
Thank you for sending that tous.
Thank you, Trevor Whiskers.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Trevor Whiskers.
Trevor Whiskers Listen, amanda.
Yeah, I feel like I've gone alittle bit over, so I'm just
going to get right to it.
What can our listeners expectto hear next week?
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Well y'all, I kind of went down a deep rabbit hole of
a you know, a serial killer andthen I thought this is too much
and it's too close to swango,so I said I gotta find something
else.
So then I found this uh, badnews bears pharmacist.
So I'm telling you, when I wasdoing the research my jaw was on
the floor and I was telling myhusband about it and he was like
what?
And I was like exactly.
(01:00:39):
So, anyway, you're not going towant to miss it.
Um, so be sure to tune in nextweek to hear about this shit bag
.
Pharmacist.
Sorry for swearing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yeah, I can't wait, that sounds amazing.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
That sounds amazing.
But before we go, a sponsornumber two we have a little
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You ever have a case of theyawns?
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(01:01:16):
Do I find that on?
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
hump day.
I'm a little bit lagging.
Why, yes, tell me more.
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Well, yes, it's so funny that you mentioned coffee
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I'm sorry, it's ashwagandha andtheanine please, please, please,
as Sabrina Carpenter was saying, cut out my snort, okay you
guys?
Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
I think we're high on this.
Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Already just reading about it gives me energy.
Could you imagine the kind ofenergy you get if you're
actually drinking this?
Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
I'm like good, oh my God, this ensures so does
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Stay suspicious If you stuckwith me through that.
Thank you so much.
(01:03:52):
It'll be worth it because you'llbe awake At least you'll be
awake for it, and so until nextweek, when I tell you about that
pharmacist, don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or followingDoctoring the Truth wherever you
enjoy your podcasts, forstories that shock, intrigue and
educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at
(01:04:13):
doctoringthetruthatbuzzsproutcom, email us your own story, ideas
, medical mishaps and commentsat doctoring the truth at Gmail,
and be sure to follow us onInstagram at doctoring the truth
podcast, or on Facebook atdoctoring the truth.
Don't forget to download, rateand review so we can be sure to
bring you more content next week.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
(01:04:35):
Bye.
amanda jona, hey yo how you doing.
I'm great.
Are you better than I am?
Can you tell I'm better thanlast week?
I can tell that you are muchbetter than last week I am much
better.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
But you know we've gone from virus cold flu season
to I know they kind of just bledinto each other flu season to.
I know they kind of just bledinto each other.
They do, so there's a lot ofsnuffling happening.
I was driving myself nuts,which you know when you're
driving yourself nuts thatperhaps it's really even that
much more exponentially annoyingto the listeners.
(00:37):
Uh, with my sniffling.
So I'm gonna try not to do that.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I will say you did a great job editing out my
sniffles.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Last time I was, I like knew where there would be a
sniffle and and I was like, ohshit, it's gone she's like bloop
I've learned, like the, the thespeech envelope or the the
acoustic envelope of a sniffle,and I actually I actually
screenshotted it, dear listeners, and sent it to her and I was
(01:05):
like look, how cute your sniff,yeah I should actually post that
and it's a cute little yeah, uh, well, we all, we all geek out
over different things, right?
for sure, for sure hearingscience is your thing I guess I
guess so should have been aspeech therapy no I was gonna
(01:27):
say no, I can't even get thatout.
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Speaker 1 (04:02):
Cozy earthcom with promo code stay suspicious did
you start finger spelling whenyou did that?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I might not be able to help myself.
I liked it.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, at some point we'll do a, we'll do a live and
then people, the listeners, willbe able to see, uh, some of the
uh ad hoc stuff that goes onhere, this will be in the past
when you hear this episodelisteners, but I did just post
on instagram story on doctoringthe truth podcast on instagram
(04:33):
um a picture of my little podset up here.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So it says on mondays we record so oh, I kind of want
to see that too, because Ihaven't I haven't cracked an
invite over there to your newlittle house.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, you're welcome.
Whenever you just have one ofthose standing invitations, you
don't need a formal.
I'm just going to have toinvite myself.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You just drive on over A little knock-knock-a-roo.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Raven will let me know you're here, yes you will.
I have very much been lookingforward to this episode Black
Market Bodies.
I have very much been lookingforward to this episode Black
market bodies.
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
me.
Yes, Well, thank you.
Like I said I, after the lastfew episodes, I kind of wanted
to do something lighthearted,but it's not lighthearted, but
it's just different.
So here we go Today onDoctoring the Truth.
We'll go inside the chillingworld of black market body
brokers, where the line betweenI like that.
(05:30):
I have a bit of a cold still, soI can kind of get into that,
really like grainy dirty, likeblack market body broker.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you creepy, where theline between donation and
exploitation disappears, okay,but seriously there's a trigger
(05:51):
warning for those who need it.
This episode covers someparticularly gruesome
descriptions of human remains.
I try not to go into too muchdetail, but if this is a topic
you find disturbing, I put putin my notes.
You may want to listen toreruns.
Obviously, you want to catch upon our podcast.
This is episode lucky 13.
So if you haven't listened tothe first 12, you're missing out
(06:13):
.
Go back.
Maybe you don't want to hearabout body parts.
However, if you have listened,I would suggest going over to
our friends.
Uh, I wish they were friends ofthe podcast.
Maybe someday they will be.
But our Morbid Girls, who todaystarted their Zodiac Killer
series.
I can't believe they haven'tdone it already.
(06:34):
So, yeah, go listen to Morbid,all right.
So sources for today's episodeinclude Reuters Investigates,
cbs, denver 7 Denver seveninvestigates in a book called
body brokers in 2006 by AnnChaney.
Remaining sources will be citedin our show notes.
Listeners, it's harder to sellhot dogs on a street corner than
(06:55):
it is to sell a human body inAmerica.
That's not an exaggeration,that's a quote from someone
who's actually done it Not sella hot dog, but sold a body.
So to sell a hot dog, you needa permit, a license and a food
safety plan, but to sell humanremains, eh, no need.
You'd think donating your bodyto science would be a noble act
(07:18):
that helps medical studentslearn or researchers make
life-saving discoveries.
But what if I told you, behindclosed doors, those bodies, like
your grandmother's, yourneighbor's and even yours one
day, are being carved up, soldoff and shipped across the
country, often with no oversightat all no license, no
(07:42):
inspections, no oversight.
Thousands of Americans donatetheir bodies to science every
year, hoping to contribute tomedical breakthroughs.
But many of those bodies areending up dismembered, boxed and
(08:03):
shipped to labs, trainingcenters and even military bases.
Some are sold for profit andsome are desecrated, some
disappear.
The idea of donating your bodyafter death can be comforting.
It feels like a way to giveback to help future doctors
learn and scientists studydiseases.
(08:23):
Most people assume theirremains will go to a medical
school or research institution,but there's a whole other side
to this world, a murky,under-regulated network of
businesses that harvest,dismember and sell body parts
for profit.
According to a ReutersInvestigates report, dozens of
these companies are in theUnited States.
They call themselvesnon-transplant tissue banks.
They call themselvesnon-transplant tissue banks, and
(08:45):
while organ transplants aretightly controlled by federal
law, whole body donations arepractically unregulated.
Many of these operations arelegal technically, but the
ethics?
That's where things fall apart.
This episode explores a largelyhidden and unregulated world of
underground body brokers,tracing the practice from its
(09:12):
origins in 19th century graverobbing to the modern-day
multi-billion dollar industry ofhuman body part commodification
.
Let's examine this dark butthriving marketplace further.
The trade in human bodies hasexisted in the shadows for
centuries.
While the use of cadavers inmedical education and research
has been essential to scientificprogress, the line between
ethical use and exploitation isoften perilously thin In the
(09:35):
modern world.
With advances in transportation, preservation and digital
commerce, the sale of humanremains has evolved into a
complex industry involvingfuneral homes, tissue banks,
educational institutions andunderground brokers.
Now, unlike organ donation,which is tightly regulated by
the federal government, wholebody donation for research
(09:58):
exists in a kind of legal grayzone.
Anyone can start a bodydonation business, no license
required, no federal inspectionand in some states like Colorado
, not even a funeral director'slicense is needed to broker
human remains of non-transplanttissue banks.
So let's look at the historicalbackground.
(10:22):
In the early 19th century,edinburgh was a city of
dualities.
It was a hub of enlightenment,thinking home to some of the
finest minds in medicine,science and philosophy, but it
was also a city of shadows,where poverty and disease
thrived.
Medical schools in Edinburghwere among the best in the world
, but they faced a peculiarproblem.
(10:42):
They needed bodies, the world.
But they faced a peculiarproblem they needed bodies.
Cadavers were essential forteaching anatomy and the law.
It only allowed the use ofexecuted criminals, with only a
few executions a year.
Supply did not meet demand.
That gap gave rise to a newprofession the resurrectionists
body snatchers, who dug up freshgraves by night and delivered
(11:05):
cadavers to medical schools bymorning.
Enter William Burke and WilliamHare, two Irish immigrants
living in Edinburgh's Westport,scraping by in the working-class
underbelly of the city.
Their journey into the macabrebegan not in a graveyard but in
a boarding house.
A fellow lodger died of naturalcauses and Hare saw an
(11:26):
opportunity.
With Burke's help, he sold thebody to Dr Robert Knox, a
prominent anatomist at EdinburghMedical School, the payment
Over seven pounds severalmonths' wages at the time.
That transaction sparked anidea why wait for people to die
naturally when you could speedup the process?
(11:49):
Between 1827 and 1828, burke andHare killed at least 16 people.
Their method was chillinglyefficient.
They suffocated their victimswithout leaving visible marks.
This became known as quoteburking end quote.
Victims were often vulnerablethe elderly, the ill, sex
(12:10):
workers and alcoholics, peoplewhose disappearances would raise
little alarm.
They lured the victims withalcohol or shelter, killed them
and delivered the bodies to DrKnox.
Knox, it seemed, asked fewquestions.
The murders went undetected formonths.
Some suspected, but few daredto speak.
After all, who could imaginemurder for science?
(12:32):
It all unraveled when theykilled a woman named Margaret
Dougherty.
Neighbors grew suspicious andpolice were called.
When the body was discovered,the game was up.
Hair turned informant inexchange for immunity and burke
stood trial.
On christmas eve, 1828, burkewas found guilty and sentenced
to death.
Yeah, ironically, his body wasdissected and displayed.
(12:55):
A final, grim, poetic twist.
Listen, it always pays to bethe first one to spill to get
that, to get that sweet, sweetdeal.
Get that deal, buddy.
I mean, that's so unfair.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
One of them lived and the other one was yeah I think
they both should have beendonated to science right, and
then dr knox.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
He faced no charges, of course well, of course not
his reputation suffered, butlegally he walked free.
This case horrified the public.
In response, the britishparliament passed the anatomy
act of 1832.
It allowed medical schools touse unclaimed bodies from
workhouses and hospitals a legal, if troubling, source.
(13:38):
But the birkenhead case shapedthe ethics of body donation.
It forced society to confrontthe balance between scientific
progress and human dignity.
In the Americas, in the UnitedStates, the demand for cadavers
surged through, especiallythrough the Civil War era, with
battlefield surgeons requiringcorpses for surgical training.
(13:59):
By the late 1800s, anatomicallegislation allowed medical
schools to acquire unclaimedbodies, particularly from
prisons and poorhouses.
Notice a theme here.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
The marginalized, the destitute.
So these policiesinstitutionalized class-based
exploitation, making theindigent disproportionately
subject to dissection.
As scientific research andmedical training became more
formalized in the 20th century,the need for cadavers increased.
This demand, coupled withinconsistent regulation, led to
(14:33):
the rise of commercialbodybrokers.
These intermediaries beganacquiring donations under vague
terms, slicing corpses intosellable parts and distributing
them to buyers ranging fromuniversities to weapons
manufacturers.
Today, body brokers oftenpresent themselves as legitimate
medical donation programs.
Families are offered freecremation in exchange for
(14:57):
donating their loved one's bodyto science.
However, many are unaware thatthe body may be dissected and
sold piece by piece to multiplebuyers.
Be dissected and sold piece bypiece to multiple buyers.
Common destinations couldinclude medical training
programs like orthopedic ordental schools, surgical device
manufacturers, crash testfacilities and military testing
(15:18):
programs.
Oh my gosh.
So let's break this down.
You or a loved one die, yourbody's donated to science,
perhaps to a local facility thatpromises to be used for noble
medical research, but you don'tknow that the science might be
plastic surgery in Las Vegas orcrash test simulations or, in
(15:38):
some cases, nothing medical atall.
Quote it's like the wild west.
There are no rules.
End quote, says one formerworker in the body trade.
Quote you get the rightpaperwork and can ship a torso
anywhere.
End quote.
One Reuters investigation founda warehouse in Detroit with
rotting human remains stored inmoldy coolers.
In Arizona, a raid uncovered acooler filled with male
(16:02):
genitalia, a bucket of heads anda Frankenstein-like torso sewn
together from multiple donors.
These aren't urban legends.
These are court-documentedfacts.
This is a business and, likeany business, it's driven by
profit.
Bodies are dismembered, cutapart and sold piece by piece.
A head might go for $500, atorso $2,000.
(16:24):
A whole body can be worth$10,000 or more when divided.
Brokers charge clients handlingfees that resemble market
prices.
So a whole torso $3,000 to$5,000, head $600 to $900, limbs
$300 to $1,200 each and spine$1,500.
These prices reflect not onlythe cost of processing and
(16:45):
shipping, but also the growingdemand for specialized
anatomical specimens.
In some cases a single body canbe worth over $100,000 when
dissected and sold in parts.
And these parts aren't justsold once.
They can be leased and resoldmultiple times, crossing state
and even international borders,multiple times crossing state
(17:09):
and even international borders.
The I see you shaking your head, I don't know, gasping for air,
if you, if you, want to saysomething?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm trying not to interrupt, but yeah, there's a
lot of jaw dropping going onover here.
It's like what?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
me too.
I couldn't believe this stuff.
So these brokers oftenadvertise themselves as helping
families in need.
This stuff.
So these brokers oftenadvertise themselves as helping
families in need, offering freecremation in exchange for a
donation.
But that cremation might notinclude all the original body
parts.
Some families get got backashes, but when investigators
tested them, they found theyweren't even.
They weren't even human remains.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Oh, okay, that's what I was kind of wondering and I
was gonna talk about this at theend, but I was like, okay, so
maybe like a couple body partswere donated and missing it,
like you would never know if youdidn't get it all back.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But now you're not even getting back human remains
I could just burn my recyclingand put that in and earn.
I mean these poor families yeah, no idea so now it's time for a
chart.
No, chart note.
We're a couple of catscaterwalling.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I know I was going to say we're definitely not
harmonizing at all, just like abunch of alley cats out here,
right?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
chart note.
I kind of like that aestheticcouple of alley cats here.
Listen, this alley cat is goingto talk to you about a chart
note where we learn somethingabout what's happening in
medicine and health carepotential new treatment for
parkinson's disease, which iscalled which is um acronymized
(18:38):
pd.
Is that a word?
I don't know.
Anyway, my uncle hadparkinson's disease, my dad's
older brother, and um, it's just, it's just so awful my grandpa
also had parkinson's, it ishorrible, didn't he?
it is horrible.
It's apparently the second mostcommon neurological disease
worldwide, um, and it'scharacterized by the progressive
(18:59):
loss of neurons that producedopamine.
And although current treatmentslike levodopa can alleviate
symptoms in the early stages,their efficacy declines and
they're often accompanied byside effects like dyskinesia,
which is that uncontrolledmuscle movement.
So cell-based therapies thatreplenish dopamine neurons in
(19:20):
the brain are showing earlypromise as a potentially more
effective treatment with feweradverse effects.
The two new studies werepublished online in April 16.
In May, in a phase two out ofthree trial conducted in Japan,
seven patients with PD underwentbilateral striatial
transplantation of dopaminergicprecursor cells derived from
(19:42):
human-induced pluripotent stemcells with immunosuppression and
were monitored for 24 months.
The trial showed that the IPScell derived dopaminergic
neurons are safe and producedopamine in the brain and
ameliorate neurological symptoms.
I think it's a significantfirst step, said study
investigator Jun Takahashi MD,phd Director and Professor of
(20:07):
the Center for iPS Cell Researchand Application in Kyoto, japan
.
No serious adverse events werereported during the study period
and the transplanted cellsproduced dopamine without
forming tumors, which is aserious risk associated with
stem cell therapy.
Among the six patientsevaluated for efficacy, five
(20:27):
showed improvement in theMovement Disorder Society
Unified Parkinson's DiseaseRating Scale, part 3, while on
medication and when they stoppedtaking it, four continued to
show improvement.
The average changes of all sixpatients were 20.4% and 35.7%
for the off and on scoresrespectively.
(20:48):
Takahashi noted that celltransplantation can be applied
when medication for PD becomesless effective or causes side
effects.
In this sense, celltransplantation therapy is
adjunctive.
In the future, the bestscenario is that cell
transplantation alone canreplace lost dopaminergic
neurons and cure the patient.
Alone can replace lostdopaminergic neurons and cure
(21:10):
the patient, takahashi said.
In a separate phase one clinicaltrial, also published in Nature
, an off-the-shelf dopaminergicprogenitor cell project derived
from human embryonotic stemcells was grafted bilaterally
into the putamen.
The putamen is a word fromLatin meaning nutshell, and it's
the subcortical nucleus with arounded structure inside the
basal ganglia, which is likedeep inside the limbic system of
(21:34):
the brain.
So they did this in 12 patientswith Parkinson's disease from
the United States and Canada.
Five of these patients receiveda low dose and seven received a
high dose coupled with a yearof immunosuppression.
So for those listeners whodon't know, typically this
involves steroids or other suchmedication that suppress the
(21:56):
immune system to keep the bodyfrom attacking itself, but then
it also makes you morevulnerable to attack from other
you know community-borneillnesses or viruses, et cetera.
So I mean there's a riskinvolved.
But the trial achieved itsprimary objectives of safety and
tolerability up to 18 monthsafter transplant with no adverse
events related to the stem cellproduct.
(22:18):
The transplanted cells survived, became engrafted and produced
dopamine, with no evidence ofgraft-induced dyskinesias and
again, dyskinesia is involuntarymuscle movement.
The secondary and exploratoryclinical outcomes showed
improvement or stability,including scores that improved
by an average of 23 points inthe high-dose cohort, reflecting
(22:40):
improved motor function withoutParkinson's disease medication.
The author of Nature News andViews said these results are
encouraging because they showthe use of allogeneic
transplants so stem celltransplants for the treatment of
PD, and that it's likely to besafe.
To confirm their effectiveness,however, more research is
needed.
These two trials were smallOpen label studies in which both
(23:03):
the investigators and theparticipants were aware of who
received what treatment isnecessary, wrote Hideyuki Okano,
md, phd, with the KayoUniversity Regenerative Medicine
Research Center in Kawasaki,japan.
Because of this, there's apossibility that the results in
efficacy were influenced by theplacebo effect or investigator
(23:23):
bias.
Nevertheless, the fact thatboth independent trials proved
to be safe and hinted atpossible efficacy, is an
important step towards theestablishment of this cell
therapy for Parkinson's diseasein wider society.
The next stages of clinicaltrials, phases two and three,
are awaited to fully assess theefficacy of these interventions.
(23:44):
Okano concluded Commenting onthis research.
Michael Okun, md, medicalAdvisor for Parkinson's
Foundation and Director of theNormal Fixal Institute for
Neurological Diseases,university of Florida Health,
gainesville, go Gators, notedthat over the past two decades,
(24:06):
stem cells have generatedtremendous interest, excitement
and hope for Parkinson's disease.
These two most recent studiesare small but promising.
He cautioned that it's tough tojudge short and long-term
outcomes because each of the twostudies include so few subjects
.
The safety of each approach wasreassuring and one very
important finding was theabsence of runaway dyskinesia,
(24:29):
which was a showstopper forprevious Parkinson's stem cell
trials, he said.
Okun also said it's importantfor patients and families to be
wary to what has been referredto as stem cell tourism.
Okay, so here I am trying tofind an uplifting study that
says oh, we're on the verge ofpossibly an effective treatment
(24:50):
for something that's so terrible, and here we are back to
nefariousness.
So I don't know if this, youknow maybe is an idea for a
future episode, but thepublished studies are legitimate
.
He told Medscape Medical News.
But there are thousands ofclinics around the world
offering a stem cell cure forcash deal.
(25:11):
We're aware of seriouscomplications resulting from
these.
We recommend never paying foran unproven experimental
treatment.
We also recommend that beforeyou say yes to anyone
approaching you with cash for astem cell treatment, you request
copies of two criticaldocuments the Institutional
Review Board approval to conductresearch on you as a human
(25:35):
subject and also the informedconsent form.
Bring the documents to yourdoctor and healthcare team for
discussion and shareddecision-making, said Okun.
Because, why wouldn't someone?
Speaker 1 (25:48):
just try to take advantage of these people, are
you?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
kidding me.
I'm like uplifted about thisparkinson's disease and here we
are, we're back to but watch outfor the scammers medical
malfeasance.
Right, okay, so that was anunintentional another rabbit
hole that will probably go downin the future, which means this
(26:11):
podcast is unfortunately nevergoing to run out of ideas,
because there's always somethingthat's no good trafficking and
the shadow market.
The shortage of organs fortransplant is a global crisis.
While the World HealthOrganization, otherwise known as
(26:32):
WHO, estimates that 10% of allorgan transplants are performed
illegally, the real number maybe higher.
Desperate patients travelabroad for illicit surgeries and
impoverished donors are coercedor misled into giving up organs
, and impoverished donors arecoerced or misled into giving up
organs.
Transplant tourism brokers inSouth Asia, eastern Europe and
(26:55):
parts of Africa coordinatebetween poor donors, private
hospitals and wealthy patients.
These brokers often forgemedical documents, bribe
hospital staff, arrangecross-border travel and use
shell companies to launder theirprofits.
Donors often receive littleaftercare and suffer long-term
health effects, including renalfailure, infection and
psychological trauma.
(27:15):
Recipients are at risk forrejection and infection due to
unsanitary procedures.
The reach of American bodybrokers isn't confined to
domestic borders either.
Since 2008, body parts fromAmerican donors have been
exported to at least 45countries.
In nations where cultural orreligious customs limit the use
(27:36):
of their own dead for medicalpurposes, there's a high demand
for cadavers and body parts.
This international tradefurther complicates the tracking
and ethical considerations ofbody donations.
Further complicates thetracking and ethical
considerations of body donations.
Body parts from American donorshave been exported to at least
45 countries and thousands ofparts are sent abroad annually.
Demand is high in nations wherecustoms limit selling or
(27:59):
dissecting their own dead.
In US law, the National OrganTransplant Act in 1984
criminalizes the sale of humanorgans but does not regulate
body parts used for education orresearch.
The Uniform Anatomical Gift Actvaries by state and often lacks
(28:19):
enforcement mechanisms.
Tissue banks are subject to FDAoversight, but only a fraction
are inspected annually to FDAoversight, but only a fraction
are inspected annually.
International guidelinesinclude the WHO guiding
principles from 2010 thatemphasize voluntary, unpaid
donation and transparency, andthen the Declaration of Istanbul
(28:40):
in 2008 that condemns organtrafficking and transplant
tourism, urging countries tobecome self-sufficient in organ
donation.
There are many ethical issuesinvolved, such as informed
consent.
Many families are unaware thatdonation to science may involve
dismemberment and resaleCommodification.
Treating body parts as acommodity raises moral concerns
(29:05):
about human dignity andexploitation.
Poor populations aredisproportionately targeted for
organ sales and body donationschemes.
So this brings us to a casestudy.
We're going to talk about a fewdifferent examples of how this
played out In case study numberone Colorado's secret industry.
So we're going to zoom in onColorado, one of the few states
(29:28):
that doesn't regulate bodybrokers.
In a stunning investigation byDenver 7 News, journalists
uncovered one of the mostegregious examples of body
brokering, which took place inMontrose, colorado, at the
Sunset Mesa Funeral Home.
Morgan Hess, the funeral home'sdirector, alongside her mother,
shirley Cook, ran a sidebusiness on the same premises, a
(29:50):
body brokerage firm.
Families entrusted their lovedones to Sunset Mesa, believing
they would receive traditionalcremation services.
Instead, many bodies were soldwithout consent and families
were given urns filled withnon-human material.
Were given urns filled withnon-human material, according to
(30:11):
a Denver 7 reporter, for nearlya decade, two Colorado funeral
home operators illegally soldbody parts and, in some cases,
entire bodies, without familiesknowing about it, and often gave
them ashes that did not belongto their loved ones.
The FBI's investigationrevealed a macabre operation
where body parts were sold toentities across the country.
The FBI raided the premises in2018 and found over 600 body
(30:34):
parts stored in appallingconditions.
In 2020, hess and Cook wereinvited to be indicted baby.
You are invited to yourindictment I like it On charges
of mail fraud and transportationof hazardous materials.
Their actions not only violatedthe trust of grieving families,
(30:55):
but also highlighted theglaring gaps in regulation that
allowed such practices toflourish unchecked.
Case study number two sciencecare, the McDonald's model of
body brokering.
Oh my gosh, if the idea of bodybrokers still feels abstract,
let's talk about one of thebiggest names in the industry
(31:16):
ScienceCare.
Founded in 2000 andheadquartered in Arizona,
sciencecare isn't a backroomoperation.
It's a multi-million dollarcorporation and arguably the
most well-known body broker inthe United States.
It pioneered a model that looksless like a medical donation
center and more like a nationallogistics chain, borrowing
efficiency principles straightfrom companies like FedEx or
(31:37):
McDonald's.
Sciencecare has developed whatit describes as a national donor
program, with refrigeratedtrucks, regional dissection
centers and a seamlessinfrastructure that allows it to
receive, process and ship humanremains across the country
quickly and profitably.
Their marketing promises thatdonated bodies will be used
(31:59):
exclusively for legitimatemedical research and education,
and many times that's exactlywhat happens.
Body parts are used for surgicaltraining, prosthetic testing
and anatomy programs, butcritics argue that ScienceCare's
scale and profit-driven modelhighlight the very problem with
the lack of regulation.
According to investigativereporting by Reuters, former
(32:22):
employees described an operationrun like a fast food franchise,
with quotas, sales goals andhigh-pressure logistics to keep
up with demand.
One former worker said we wereencouraged not to think about
the donor as a person.
We were told to keep itclinical and efficient Move
product.
I'm dying Listeners.
(32:44):
That product could be ashoulder, a leg or even a whole
torso destined for a surgicallab or medical device training
in another state or country.
In 2016, reuters reported thatScienceCare had received
accreditation from the AmericanAssociation of Tissue Banks but,
unlike organ donation, thisaccreditation is entirely
voluntary and doesn't substitutefederal oversight.
(33:06):
No federal law requirescompanies like ScienceCare to be
certified, inspected or evenlicensed in most states.
So, while ScienceCare appears tobe more polished than the
horror stories like Sunset Mesa,the fundamental issue remains
there's a massive, mostlyunregulated system of profiting
off of donated human remains,and even the most legit players
(33:28):
operate in a legal vacuum.
So how is this legal?
The short answer is because noone's really watching.
The short answer is because noone's really watching.
There's no national registry,no system to track remains, no
regulatory requirements toinform families and or obtain
consent, and, in most states, nogovernment body checks what
(33:49):
happens once that cadaver leavesthe donor site.
That's how people like Hessoperated for years, unnoticed,
unchecked and unpunished, untilsomeone finally spoke out.
Some states like New York,virginia and California have
added their own laws, but othersnothing.
Take Colorado, for example.
Until recently, there were zerostate laws regulating this
industry.
(34:09):
That made it a hotspot for someof the worst abuse cases we've
seen and, as you've heard, thosecases weren't just unethical,
they were deeply criminal.
A CBS News investigation foundbrokers labeling boxes, quote
medical research end quote andshipping them via FedEx oh my
god.
Sometimes internationally, butwith almost no scrutiny.
(34:31):
One employee interview put itbluntly quote if you can print a
shipping label, you can move ahuman head.
I'm so stressed.
Those are words I never thoughtI would say.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
God.
So I started looking at some ofthese moving companies, like
some of these transportationservices, and I came across
Airways Freight Corporation.
And I came across AirwaysFreight Corporation and this is
a company that on their websitesays they offer domestic trade
shows and anatomical services,such as same-day expediters,
(35:05):
flatbeds and oversized freighttrailers, panel vans,
refrigerated products, specialescorts and single-team or team
driver services.
It also provides internationalservices, including trade show
services, such as pre-showliaison, documentation and site
agent, pre-advice, site support,post-show disposal and return
(35:25):
shipments.
So this company is referenced inthe book Body Brokers that I
talked about and in her book,chaney interviewed Mike Nimmo,
who was at the time themarketing director of this
company, airways Brokers, and hesaid that about 80 body and
this was in 2006.
So who knows it's like twodecades later and how much
(35:46):
exponentially it's changed.
But at the time he said thatthere was about 80 body part
shipments a month usingcommercial airlines, fedex and
UPS, and he's like I don't knowif I should be talking about
this because I don't think thepublic realize that these
products are being shippedthrough the general system.
Yeah, and I'm sure that innovember 2003 fedex employees in
(36:08):
maplewood, missouri, wouldagree with that.
They noticed an unmarkedpackage along with, oh my god,
two others bound for the same.
Oh my God.
Oh, I'm so stressed, I'm justthinking, reporter.
(36:33):
Well, boxes break, shrug emoji.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I'm just thinking also like what if it got
delivered to the wrong addressand you had a head show up at
your house?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It's just horrific, all of it is.
And then there's the familiesto think about, people like
Wendy, who was cited in the book.
She donated her mother's body,believing it would help cure a
disease, but instead hermother's torso was sold to a
medical device company and therest of her remains were never
(37:04):
returned.
One man learned that hisfather's body was sold to the us
military for explosive testing.
Another family only found outthe truth years later when
investigators knocked on thedoor.
I mean, they're not just bodiestheir parents, grandparents,
siblings.
For many families, thisbetrayal cuts deep.
So case number three is one ofour own, amanda.
It's about an ENT yeah, yournose and throat doctor.
On July 24th 1986, ups workersat the Stanford Field Sorting
(37:31):
Center in Louisville, kentucky.
Or, if I was going to be yourco-worker, louisville, indiana.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
she says Louisville.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Kentucky, or, if I was going to be your co-worker,
lowell, lowellville, indiana.
She says Lowellville,lowellville, kentucky.
They were inspecting cargo foran overnight flight when they
spotted several boxes fromPhiladelphia marked aerosol Now,
ups won't transport aerosolcontainers so the workers
removed the boxes.
That's when they noticed asmell.
God, it was a sweet, overripesmell, like something had
(38:02):
spoiled, like meat perhaps, andthe boxes were also leaking.
Better open them up.
The workers thought no, nestled, don't, uh, nestled inside were
five human heads wrapped inplastic.
They looked alive, but fortheir severed necks, which oozed
a rancid bloody fluid, theirworkers were appalled.
(38:26):
Obviously, and before longphones were ringing at dr
richard greathouse office.
He was a local coroner.
He'd seen plenty of strangecases in his 29 years on the job
, but this was one of theweirdest he'd seen.
Yet he said I love this quotesomething really hokey was going
on.
Hokey, that's what you call abunch of severed heads in a box
(38:47):
and you do the hokey pokey andyou ship the head right.
You put your head in, your headout, your fat exit out and you
shake it overnight shipping ohmy gosh.
So of course you jumped to theconclusion that somebody
murdered these people and wastrying to get rid of the
(39:07):
evidence.
I mean, wouldn't you?
uh, yeah, I would be mf-ing,mortified for the rest of my
life so great house called thephiladelphia Department and in a
matter of hours detectivestraced the boxes to a four-story
Philadelphia mansion in theelegant tree-lined street of
Rittenhouse Square.
The limestone mansion was hometo Dr Martin Spector, a
(39:31):
well-known ENT, who livedupstairs with his wife and used
the bottom floors of his houseas his office, inside in a
second a second floorrefrigerator.
Are you ready for this?
no, I don't think so I orderedpizza that's waiting for me and
I'm all of a sudden I wasliterally just thinking thank
god.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I'm like on an empty stomach because I feel a little
nausea I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
I mean, it's for the greater good.
Right, we got to educate ourlisteners.
Inside in a second floorrefrigerator, homicide detective
daniel rosenstein and hispartners found eight pairs of
frozen ears not the ears theyalso found an order for 17
(40:17):
frozen arms and half heads withbrains what from a boulder half
half heads with brains, so I'massuming they just wanted half
the skull.
yeah gosh, from a boulder,colorado research institute.
When, uh, the detectives askedspecter about this, the elderly
doctor conceded that he'd beenshipping ears and heads around
(40:38):
the country to doctors andresearchers for I don't know,
going on 15 years, but herefused to name his source,
besides saying that he got theparts from a pathologist I was
going to say pathological psycho, but pathologist assistant.
One of Spector's formersecretaries recalled the
(40:59):
dichotomy of knowing that therewere patients sitting in the
pleasant waiting area browsingmagazines while upstairs staff
were packing body parts intoboxes.
For the UPS guy they used tojoke about his side hustle
during coffee breaks.
There was a time when some ofhis heads fell off a ups truck
and rolled down the street.
Are they kidding?
(41:20):
no, oh my god the local medicalcommunity's general census.
After news broken out about thebody bits discovered at the
mansion was that dr specter hadlost his everlasting mind and
was perhaps time for him toretire, his privileges at the
(41:40):
University of PennsylvaniaSchool of Medicine were
suspended while theinvestigation continued.
A search of Spector's downtownoffice revealed the names of
several employees of localmedical schools and a morgue
worker Morgue workers that move.
The bodies are called Diend-i-n-e-r is the german word
anyway uh from the university ofpennsylvania, whom specter
(42:03):
admitted he had enticed tosupply him with parts.
The men stole the body partsfrom dismembered medical school
cadavers and autopsied bodies inthe morgue.
Soon, linward summerswardSummers of the University of
Pennsylvania Hospital wasarrested after confessing that
he'd been supplying Spector withstolen body parts for 10 years,
earning $150 per head, $65 anarm and $20 for a set of ears.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Only $10 for one ear.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Come on, that was my first thought.
It was like why?
Why are the ears not worth muchmore?
Anyway, on some occasions hesaid he made as much as $2,000
in cash just for one delivery.
Summers harvested the parts fromcorpses that had undergone
autopsies at the hospital, butweren't donors Gross.
(42:53):
So Pennsylvania is one of thefew states that prohibit the
exportation of body parts.
Go pennsylvania, I've beenthere.
Law, I mean yeah, you have.
Uh.
The law also requires thatanyone receiving a donated body
have a license from the state,which specter did not, and the
philadelphia district attorneycharged the employees, dieter
(43:13):
and specter, with conspiracy,theft, receiving stolen property
, abuse of a corpse andviolating the health code by
shipping body parts out of thestate.
Specter lost his medicallicense and the others were all
fired from their jobs.
The Specter scandal was thefirst of many to come.
Many medical schools haveexploited their generous donors
repeatedly.
(43:33):
The families of people whodonate their bodies to medical
schools rarely know anythingabout their destination.
The consent forms they sign arelikely vague and many of the
donors are trusting people,assuming that medical
institutions and physicians willnot betray them.
Case number four even Havid,the morgue scandal that shocked
(43:54):
academia.
So, speaking of institutions.
When we think of eliteinstitutions, places like
Harvard Medical School we assumethat layers of integrity,
accountability and honor, but in2023, that image was shattered.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
The scandal began quietly.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Recent Whispers, yeah , a federal investigation.
And then a headline thatstunned the medical community
Harvard Medical School morguemanager accused of stealing and
selling human remains.
For years, cedric Lodge servedas the morgue manager at
Harvard's anatomical giftprogram.
He had access to bodies donatedin good faith individuals who
(44:31):
believed they were helping toeducate future surgeons and
researchers.
But behind the scenes, lodgewas running a grotesque site
operation.
According to the federalindictment, he removed dissected
parts from cadavers, includingheads, brains, skin and bones,
and sold them to collectors,educators and even
self-described oddities dealers.
Some transactions were arrangedvia Facebook and PayPal.
(44:56):
Others were more macabre.
One buyer was accused oftanning human skin to create
leather.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Okay, puts the lotion on the skin.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Another allegedly purchased two dissected faces
and displayed them at home.
Lodge, even invited some ofthese buyers into the morgue
itself, allowing them to selectwhich remains they wanted to
purchase.
You know, little browsing,little window shopping.
A federal prosecutor called itan affront to human dignity.
I mean, some of this is edgainsey right, like, didn't he
(45:32):
make a purse out of his mom'syes, hoo-ha, or something anyway
?
Um, or a purse out of his mom'syes, hoo-ha, or something
Anyway.
Or a belt out of her chichas?
Yeah, I like my scientificterms.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Chichas.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
So disgusting.
So it wasn't just Lodge Hiswife and multiple
co-conspirators across severalstates were indicted, and their
transactions spanned years andinvolved tens of thousands of
dollars, all sourced from bodiesentrusted to one of the most
respected institutions in theworld.
For Harvard, the fallout wasenormous.
The school called it a betrayalof the Harvard Medical School
(46:08):
community and immediately shutdown the morgue and restructured
the donor program.
But the scandal raised achilling question If this can
happen at Harvard, with theworld watching what's going on
at smaller institutions, privatebrokers or funeral homes where
no one's watching, the truth, noone really knows improper
(46:32):
documentation not for sellingthe bodies themselves, because
technically, that part's.
Legal Lawmakers have proposedreforms, including mandatory
licensing, inspections andconsent forms, but only a few
states have enacted seriousregulations.
So far.
There's no federal law stoppinganyone from starting a body
broker business tomorrow, andthat's what makes us so
dangerous.
(46:52):
Every day, bodies are donatedwith good intentions and some of
those bodies enter a systembuilt for profit and not ethics.
Before the networks caught on,before the FBI raided funeral
homes and before Harvard's namewas dragged into the body trade,
there was a journalist namedAnnie Cheney.
Back in 2003, cheney publishedan article in Harper's Magazine
(47:13):
called the Resurrection Men,which eventually became the
foundation for her chilling 2006book Body Brokers Inside
America's Underground Trade andHuman Remains.
Cheney was one of the first todive into this underground
economy.
Her reporting didn't just focuson policy or law.
It focused on people, on grief,on betrayal.
She told stories of familieswho donated a loved one's body
(47:36):
for noble causes, only to laterdiscover it had been dismembered
, sold or dumped.
One case she uncovered was thatof a man whose widow believed
that his body was donated tomedical research.
In truth, his head was sold toa training seminar and his arms
and legs shipped to varioussurgical device companies.
None of it was communicated,none of it was consensual and it
(47:57):
wasn't an outlier.
This was the system.
Cheney documented how bodybrokers preyed upon the poor,
the grieving and the uninformed.
Many brokers would approachfamilies under the guise of
medical research, promisingdignity, cremation and closure,
but then turn around and makethousands by slicing and selling
the body to the highest bidder.
In an interview, cheney saidit's not the donation itself
(48:21):
that's the problem, it's thesecrecy, it's the lies.
These families wanted to dosomething meaningful and instead
they were exploited.
Cheney's work came years beforenational media really caught on
.
She sounded the alarm and for awhile not many listened.
But today, nearly two decadeslater, the stories she uncovered
remain painfully relevant.
(48:42):
Her book was the one that gaveus the term we use today still
body brokers people who profitoff the dead in the absence of
regulation, in the shadows ofscience and sometimes in plain
sight.
After everything we've uncoveredthe scandals, the profit
motives, the lies one thingbecomes painfully clear the US
body donation system is brokenand it's not enough to expose
(49:05):
the problems.
We need to talk about solutionsIf we want to protect the
dignity of donors, if we want toensure families aren't
exploited, if we want to bringscience and ethics back into an
alignment, then reform is notoptional, it's essential.
So here are fourrecommendations that experts,
ethicists and investigators havecalled for, and they're long
overdue, in my opinion.
Number one transparency andtracking.
(49:28):
Imagine if we could trace abody from donation to final use,
just like you track a packagein the mail.
A national registry could dothat.
Every donor, every transfer,every dissection verified,
logged and accessible to thefamily and regulators.
Some tech advocates have evenproposed blockchain-based
identifiers to make trackingtamper-proof and publicly
auditable.
(49:49):
No more backroom deals, no morevanishing cadavers.
Number two standardized consentforms.
Right now, consent documentsvary wildly from one body broker
to another.
Many are vague, some don'tmention resale, some don't
mention export.
So there should be a federalrequirement for clear, uniform
consent forms, forms that spellout exactly what could happen to
(50:10):
a donated body, includingwhether it can be dismembered,
sold for profit or shippedoverseas, and unless that
consent is clearly given, thenthose actions should be illegal.
Number three stricter oversight.
Today, organ donation is highlyregulated by the US Department
of Health and Human Services,but when it comes to the
full-body donations, the FDA haslittle to no authority.
(50:31):
That has to change.
Every non-transplant tissuebank should be licensed, audited
and inspected, just like anyfacility handing human material.
Penalties for violating donorconsent or selling body parts
illegally should be severe andenforceable.
I mean, we have rules for howto handle biohazard waste.
Why don't we have strongerrules for actually handling
(50:53):
human beings?
Number four internationalcooperation.
The body trade is not just anAmerican problem.
Cadaver parts are bought andsold across borders every day.
We need to push forinternational treaties that
regulate the trade of humanremains, just like we do with
human trafficking and organharvesting.
The Declaration of Istanbul,drafted in 2008, provides a
(51:15):
strong ethical framework, butnot every country has ratified
it.
The US can take the lead inbuilding cross-border
investigative teams to identifytrafficking rings, shut down
shady exporters and ensure thatdonation never becomes a front
for exploitation.
If there's one thing we'velearned, it's that transparency
is power, and when people knowthe truth, they can make
(51:36):
informed decisions, they canprotect their families, they can
advocate for change.
But secrecy secrecy is thecurrency of the body brokers.
So ask questions, demandanswers.
If you or a loved one isconsidering body donation, read
the fine print, call theorganization, ask where the body
will go ask what they'll dowith it, and don't accept vague
(51:59):
assurances.
Behind every headline, behindevery broken promise, is a real
person who thought they weredoing the right thing.
They deserve better, and we oweit to them and ourselves to
make sure the system does better.
We need these changes in orderto ensure respect for the dead
while advancing care for theliving, and once again I've gone
(52:21):
down a rabbit hole of acompassion plea that I didn't
even know I had.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
And that's a wrap but as you were reading those four
ideas in my head, I was likeperiod, exclamation, point,
period, underline, boldunderline, underline like um.
Can I get an amen?
Hello louder for those in theback?
Um.
Thank you so much for bringingthis to our attention because,
(52:49):
honestly, I had no idea this wasgoing on me either and so if
people don't know what's goingon, then oh my God also how
gross and how sad.
How sad for these families.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yeah, I mean, okay, you could argue that like, okay,
well, you know, the soul's gone, it's just a shell or whatever.
But that's not up to you todecide, that's up to the
families and how they feel aboutit, and there should be some
dignity and also you should beable to have a say.
I mean, these people were beingphilanthropic by donating their
body to science, hoping for thebetterment of mankind, not to
(53:28):
line some asshole's pocket.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, yeah, and be shipped by a FedEx.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, I wanted to donate my whole body to science,
but I don't want to be FedExedall over the show dripping pink
stuff on people I know like, ahyeah, how is that helpful?
No, so it really opened my eyesdonations but I believe that
with our eyes open, we can makebetter choices in terms of
(53:57):
ensuring that what we'redonating is going towards what,
where our cause is, or ourmission for that donation and I
kind of love the idea of thetracking.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Like you get to track your package, you know, and so
then, like at the end, you getto see like oh, okay, like our
loved one was received by xcenter and like this will help,
yeah, and it doesn't have to belike for a specific, like this
is what the body part went to,but like this overarching goal
of ours will help be reached bythe, by your donation.
(54:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
It didn't go to Dr Spock.
There's a mansion.
What if?
Speaker 1 (54:33):
to be.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
FedExed off for his personal extra profit, like he's
not already making enough.
Jeez, yeah, man, I'm just sobitter about that.
Um, but yeah, I'm gonna startthinking about it now and
wondering, like, why isn't therelegislation out there about
that?
I, I know when my tide laundrydetergent has left the building
(54:54):
in chicago and when amazon hasdropped it off at our you know
intermediary center, whatever.
How could you not know?
Speaker 1 (55:02):
you're a person's human remains and um, I had to
like highlight a couple thingsthat you read um.
So some of these things werebeing sold to collectors and
oddity dealers.
Like who the fuck are thesepeople?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
First of all, I don't know if you recall the Dr
Sherman episodes where I hadbeen in New Orleans and where
did I get that book?
An oddity shop, yeah, yeah, andthere were body parts in jars
and things, but like you, don't.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
I would guess if I saw that, like that's not real,
Like someone made it out of,like a yeah, like clay or
whatever.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Oh my gosh.
Now I'm upset that the bookthat I bought might've helped
somebody buying something, andthe thing is it's not illegal.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
That blew my ever-loving mind.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, how is this?
This is a massive loophole,this is a massive oversight and,
god bless, what is it Turkeythat figured out, like in 2008,.
Like you know what guys?
We shouldn't be doing this.
Lost my notes.
Istanbul.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Istanbul.
Yeah, thank you All right.
Uh, lost my notes.
But um istanbul, istanbul,istanbul.
Yeah, thank you all right.
So we have a medical mishapsent to us from a listener um
whose name is trevor.
We can share trevor hi trevorand trevor writes hi with a
(56:40):
bunch of eyes and exclamationpoints and I vibe with that.
So, hi, trevor, they say oh, mygod, first of all, I love you
guys so much, thank you.
Thank you, I love you too,trevor.
Trevor, hi, um, they say I lookforward to tuning in each week
and I'll admit that I do singalong to Chard Note, bless.
(57:06):
I love that.
I've actually had other peopletell me that they sing along to
Chard Note too, so I love that.
Just a bunch of us alley catsout here and people are vibing
with it.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
So then they write so I'm in my mid-30s, right, same,
not exactly an athlete Same,I'm just kidding, but not
exactly falling apart either, orso I thought One evening.
I'm chilling on the couch,snacking on some Cheetos, living
my best low effort life.
One of the Cheetos slipsbetween the cushions and in a
(57:42):
moment of sheer determination,or maybe desperation, I reach
for it.
Big mistake I feel this sharppull in my back, like I've just
tried to deadlift a car.
Instant regret.
Now I'm in pain and limpingaround like I'm 90.
So I go to grab what I thinkare my muscle relaxants.
(58:06):
I pop one flop back on thecouch and wait for sweet, sweet
relief.
About a half an hour later I'msweating like I just ran a
marathon.
My heart is pounding out of mychest and everything around me
starts to get weird.
Like colors are talking to me.
Weird.
My roommate walks in and findsme sitting on the floor in my
(58:28):
boxers having a very intenseconversation with a houseplant.
Apparently I was asking it forcareer advice.
Uh-oh, next stop ER.
First of all, trevor, I feellike we are friends.
Speaker 2 (58:44):
Are we friends?
Speaker 1 (58:45):
Okay.
So at the hospital, my heartrate is off the charts, my
pupils are massive and I cannotshut up.
I'm telling the nurse my lifestory and I can tell that they'd
rather have peace and quiet,but I can't stop word vomiting
out of my mouth.
It was a whole thing, aw.
After some questioning and alittle Sherlock Holmes style
(59:08):
medical sleuthing, we figuredout I accidentally took my cat's
meds.
Not just any meds kitty ADHDpills, pet grade amphetamines
what that's a.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
Thing.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Oh my gosh, I was fine, thankfully, but for the
rest of the year, the rest ofthe year and, I'm sure, for the
rest of my time of my life,everyone and I mean everyone
started calling me Whiskers.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Everyone started calling me Whiskers Trevor.
Oh, thank you Whiskers.
Thanks Whiskers.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
We're going to jump on the bandwagon.
Thank you, whiskers, our newfriend, trevor.
That was amazing and you wrotethat You're hilarious.
Thank you for sending that tous.
Thank you, Trevor Whiskers.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Trevor Whiskers.
Trevor Whiskers Listen, amanda.
Yeah, I feel like I've gone alittle bit over, so I'm just
going to get right to it.
What can our listeners expectto hear next week?
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Well y'all, I kind of went down a deep rabbit hole of
a you know, a serial killer andthen I thought this is too much
and it's too close to swango,so I said I gotta find something
else.
So then I found this uh, badnews bears pharmacist.
So I'm telling you, when I wasdoing the research my jaw was on
the floor and I was telling myhusband about it and he was like
what?
And I was like exactly.
(01:00:39):
So, anyway, you're not going towant to miss it.
Um, so be sure to tune in nextweek to hear about this shit bag
.
Pharmacist.
Sorry for swearing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yeah, I can't wait, that sounds amazing.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
That sounds amazing.
But before we go, a sponsornumber two we have a little
discount code for you.
For you know, I don't know, doyou ever?
You ever get tired?
You ever have a case of theyawns?
Do I need an IV of coffee in myveins.
(01:01:16):
Do I find that on?
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
hump day.
I'm a little bit lagging.
Why, yes, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Well, yes, it's so funny that you mentioned coffee
Coffee, because there is acompany called Strong Coffee
Company which brings arevolution to your coffee
experience with its premiuminstant blends designed for
those who seek both convenienceand health benefits.
I mean, what more could youreally want?
The Black Fairtrade InstantCoffee stands out, offering a
(01:01:47):
robust and smooth flavor similarto a traditional cup of coffee,
but enhanced with addedbenefits.
Each serving is enriched with15 grams of high-quality protein
, 5 grams of MCTs and 250milligrams of adaptogens,
including ashwagandha andtheanine.
(01:02:14):
I'm sorry, it's ashwagandha andtheanine please, please, please,
as Sabrina Carpenter was saying, cut out my snort, okay you
guys?
Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
I think we're high on this.
Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Already just reading about it gives me energy.
Could you imagine the kind ofenergy you get if you're
actually drinking this?
Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
I'm like good, oh my God, this ensures so does
ashwagandha and theanine ensuresustained energy, improved
alertness and a calming effectwithout jitters?
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Amanda, I would say so.
This unique combination ofingredients promotes better
sleep and mental clarity, makingit an ideal choice for busy
professionals.
For those who prefer a creameroption, strong Coffee Company's
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(01:03:30):
To feel your mind and body forhours, thank you, more
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And if you go to strong coffeecompanycom, you can save
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Stay suspicious If you stuckwith me through that.
Thank you so much.
(01:03:52):
It'll be worth it because you'llbe awake At least you'll be
awake for it, and so until nextweek, when I tell you about that
pharmacist, don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or followingDoctoring the Truth wherever you
enjoy your podcasts, forstories that shock, intrigue and
educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
You can text us directly on ourwebsite at
(01:04:13):
doctoringthetruthatbuzzsproutcom, email us your own story, ideas
, medical mishaps and commentsat doctoring the truth at Gmail,
and be sure to follow us onInstagram at doctoring the truth
podcast, or on Facebook atdoctoring the truth.
Don't forget to download, rateand review so we can be sure to
bring you more content next week.
Until then, stay safe and staysuspicious.
(01:04:35):
Bye.
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