February 5, 2025 • 57 mins
Did you ever wonder how a simple bathroom break could lead to a podcast mishap? Join us as we share the hilarious behind-the-scenes stories from our international listeners in Australia, the UK, Canada, and France. Promising better audio quality, we’re diving into alternating episode formats and tackling the nuances of regional accents, with a special nod to our friend Amy for enlightening us about the band Little Texas."
"As our conversation shifts gears, we unravel the twisted saga of Bradley Schwartz and Bruce Bigger. Bradley’s obsession ignites a dark alliance with Bruce, a character whose life is marred by tragedy and crime. From a shocking murder plot to bizarre encounters involving a man in scrubs, this chapter is riddled with suspense and intrigue as we piece together the chilling events that unfolded."
"Finally, brace yourself for the dramatic case of Dr. Catherine Roxanne Growe, whose reckless social media escapades cost her a medical license. We scrutinize the ethical boundaries violated, and the unsettling implications for patient safety. Concluding with Brad Schwartz's gripping trial, we dissect the courtroom drama, DNA evidence, and the relentless appeal efforts that could rewrite the narrative of this intense legal battle.
Don't miss a (heart) beat! Check out our Instagram @doctoringthetruthpodcast and email us your Medical Mishaps at doctoringthetruth@gmail.com. Join us on Facebook at Doctoring the Truth, and TikTok @doctoring the truth. Don't forget to download, rate, and review so we can keep bringing you more exciting content each week!
Stay safe, and stay suspicious...trust, after all, is a delicate thing!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
hello, hello amanda how are you doing?
I'm doing so good.
How are you good?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
wow, can I just say wow, wow, like the biggest.
Wow you guys our listeners thebest the best.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You guys are so sweet .
We've been so overwhelmed withpeople reaching out to us,
texting, calling socials.
Did you guys know you couldtext us on our website?
People are texting us on there.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, that's awesome, that's great.
And guess what, amanda?
We have people from multiplecountries.
We are international after oneepisode.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We're international after one episode.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We're international baby.
Okay, so can I say goodbye toour listeners in Australia,
cheerio and ta to our listenersin the UK.
We have listeners in Canada, eh,and France, Bonjour, oh that's
(01:09):
so exciting and you guys havegiven us such excellent comments
and helpful, uh, feedback.
We know we had a dumpster fireof audio issues at the end and I
will say somebody I'm notsaying who, oh, I will not say
who somebody had to pee and, uh,we had to hit pause and then,
(01:30):
okay, it was me and, um, so Icouldn't figure out how to align
the tracks after the pause forthe pee, and so you know what?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
guys, there was, there was re-recordings, there
was, it was a, it was a wholething.
So for everyone who told methat I should talk more on the
podcast, I guess enjoy episodeone, because usually I actually
talk too much.
Fun fact actually.
I'll share a little bit aboutme.
My classmates will rememberthis story, but I had to.
(02:02):
In one class my teacher pulledmy desk up to the chalkboard
because he thought I talked toomuch in class, so I had to do
class from the chalkboard whileeveryone else got to sit by each
other.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So anyway, well that teacher be so proud.
But listen, it's not going tobe all about me talking and
Amanda having to swallow hercomments.
Um, some of that was because ofthe pee, but also we are
trading off episodes, so theintention was to each have a
(02:34):
case every other week, but then,you know, I went long, so we're
doing two in a row because Icouldn't figure out how to cut.
But you know, typically you'regoing to from amanda one week
and and myself the next andsometimes you'll get a two pota,
okay, a two pota all of asudden.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
We're from boston, I know I love I love throwing a
boston accent and I was talkingto my friend brie about this
last weekend because I had toldyou after recording last time.
Like how do people in bostonsay brad?
Because the r obviously youhave to say, and so her and I
have deduced this to they say anr, and please correct us if I'm
(03:12):
wrong, if it's towards thebeginning but not at the end of
the word okay.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So it's okay, brad, but if it was bard, it would be
bad yeah I mean, I don't knowfor sure, but it made sense to
us in the parking lot yeah, wehad a potty at the potty.
Hey, we love east coast guys.
Yeah, I love it, um don't stop.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I just have one shout out before we begin.
I don't want to make this parttoo long, but in the first
episode we were talking about aband called Little Texas.
Right, little Texas, littleTexas.
And I was all I don't know,I've never heard of them.
Okay, and I said, well, myfriend is from Texas and I'm
(03:57):
going to ask her.
And I said, amy, do you knowwho Little Texas is?
And she said yeah, duh.
Well, not quite.
But she was like, oh, I used tojam out to achy, breaky heart
and, um, god bless Texas.
I started reading these titleswhen she messaged me back.
I'm like, wow, I'm an idiot.
I know all these songs, so I amsomeone who knows the lyrics,
(04:22):
but I didn't know who the uhartist was, unless you're taylor
swift.
So sorry.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, there you go.
Shout out to who was yourfriend, amy amy, amy, amy.
Thanks for listening, and youknow reading amanda the duh act.
So yeah, um, that's awesome.
We're so excited to bring youpart two of the episode Sins of
(04:56):
the Stethoscope.
But let's have a quick recap.
Last week we talked about thebrutal and senseless murder of
Dr Brian Stidham, a belovedfather, husband and pediatric
ophthalmology surgeon.
On the night of October 5, 2004, brian was found stabbed 15 to
17 times, lying on the pavementin front of his office building
with a piece of pizza next tohim.
(05:17):
We learned Dr Stidham respondedto an advertisement to take
over the pediatric patients at athriving ophthalmology practice
in Tucson, arizona.
He'd only been working with theowner of the practice, fellow
ophthalmology surgeon Dr BradleySchwartz, for a month Only a
month when, in December 2001,the DEA raided the office.
(05:39):
Schwartz was then indicted by afederal grand jury on 77 counts
of illegally obtainingprescription medicine.
He went off to rehab for fourmonths, leaving Brian Stidham,
no, brian, no, leaving Brian topick up the pieces.
Yeah, brian Stidham, sorry.
(06:00):
All of a sudden I got a littleweird.
Like am I mixing up?
There's so many bees in thisepisode.
Okay, brian stood him to pickup the pieces.
Brian got busy creating his ownpractice which enraged bradley
and seemed to consume bradley'severy waking moment with
thoughts of revenge.
We talked about multiple women,lovers and people with whom
(06:21):
bradley came into contact andhow obsessed he was with getting
even to the point that he askedabout hitmen and even proposed
framing Brian by having someoneplant child pornography in
Brian's office, proposing thathe could take naked naked photos
of his own son, by the way.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Disgusting creature named Brad, absolutely
disgusting.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, nobody took him seriously, nobody took the bait
, until a man named Bruce Biggercame along.
I mean, with a name like that.
He sounds like a Disney villain, doesn't he?
Yeah, he sure does.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I can picture the long face already.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Right On September 4th 2004, tucson Medical Center
sent a patient to see Brad foran injury to his right eye.
Brad performed surgery on himon September 15th 2004.
That was the beginning of thattwisted relationship, which
we're going to learn more aboutlater.
But let me give you a littlebackground on Bruce first,
(07:24):
ronald later.
But let me give you a littlebackground on bruce first,
ronald bruce bigger is the onlychild of david and mary sued
bigger.
When bruce was four years old,his father, david, was injured
after a train collided with hiscar.
I can't believe he's injuredand not, yeah, wiped out, but uh
, eventually he died from hisinjuries.
After his death it was wasdiscovered that David had been
(07:46):
embezzling money from the bankthat he worked for.
Bruce often told his friendsthat he suspected his father was
being chased by someone whocaused him to drive in front of
the train.
Mary Sue was a patrol officerfor the LaPorte County Police
Department.
Two years after Bruce'sfather's death, she met and
(08:07):
married a man who was physicallyand emotionally abusive towards
Bruce.
Five years later she divorcedhim.
Bruce attended Catholic schoolsand was an average student.
He was described as talkative,athletic, he dressed well and he
liked to read about sports.
His mother eventually marriedagain, although the marriage
only lasted three years.
(08:28):
Bruce went to college at age 18on a partial football
scholarship.
At 20 years old, in 1997, hetransferred to Ball State
University, but his footballcareer ended when he suffered
injuries from a car accident.
By that time he was heavilyinvolved in alcohol and the drug
scene, and he was addicted toalcohol, cocaine and marijuana.
(08:50):
Although he eventually droppedout of university, he often told
people he had advanced financedegrees.
Bruce moved to Chicago and gotvarious jobs, primarily
excelling in sales.
He was terrible with money.
His mother often had to bailhim out of his financial
predicaments, and his life tooka turn for the worst when his
(09:11):
great grandmother and great auntdied around the same time in
1998, and he began incurring DUIcitations.
Bruce was arrested in 2004 forforging his grandmother's
signature on a check from heraccount.
Bruce took off for Arizonaduring his probation and entered
the drug scene living on thestreets.
(09:32):
Yeah, hard times.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, I mean he definitely had a lot going for
him.
But it's a shame what moneyissues can do.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
It's a shame what money issues can do.
On September 4, 2004,.
Police were called at 4.30 pmto reports of an assault at the
Circle K convenience store.
A 19-year-old man, David,reported that he and his
girlfriend Yuna were walkinginto the store when a man
confronted him and punched himin the head several times.
She is I can't imagine.
(10:05):
When David fell to the ground,the man began kicking him in the
ribs.
Una ran into the store andyelled for the cashier to call
911.
The cashier ordered theassailant to leave the store and
David was taken to a nearbyhospital for treatment.
The suspect left in a white SUV.
Since the cashier wrote downthe license plate and number of
(10:26):
the SUV clever cashier policewere able to locate him.
Police records, trace hisidentity and then issued a stop
and arrest order for Bruce ontwo counts of assault, and he
was arrested two days later.
Bruce claimed that Davidstarted the assault and that he
(10:47):
was mad that bruce was defendinghimself and was able to beat
him up.
Okay, on 99 2004, policeresponded to a call for a
domestic incident.
When they arrived at theapartment, they found bruce
bleeding from the face andsitting on a couch.
He said that two black men cameinto the apartment and began
hitting him, accusing him ofassaulting their sister.
(11:10):
This was when he was admittedto the hospital in Tucson and
met Brad for an eye exam due tohis injuries.
Oh, it's a meat cute.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Oh, I hate to see it cute, oh hate to see it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Twelve days later he was arrested for driving with a
suspended license and found tohave drug paraphernalia in his
car, including a crack pipeCasual.
So back to the murder.
On October 5th after 4pm LisaGoldberg arrived at Brad's
office in Tucson with herovernight bag, her dog and some
study materials that she had onhand as she was scheduled to
(11:48):
take her real estate licenseexam the next day.
She was going to spend theweekend with Brad and they
planned to have dinner together.
Brad introduced her to JulieHarrington, an office
esthetician, and said that Juliewould show her around while he
finished his patients for theday.
So Julie took Lisa to a localcoffee shop and warned her that
(12:10):
you know, as a good friend doesthat.
Brad was not faithful and thiswas news to Lisa.
They returned to the officearound 530 and Lisa followed
Brad to his home where she lether dog inside.
Jason Lee, a medical student,arrived at the complex just
before 6 pm to attend DrStidham's medical lecture.
(12:30):
A man in scrubs approached himin the parking lot asking if he
needed help.
Jason asked him where DrStidham's office was and the man
pointed him to an officestating that he'd seen pizza
being delivered there recently.
Meanwhile, a few blocks fromthe complex, a woman named
Jennifer Dainty how cute of aname is that, Jennifer Dainty
(12:51):
was working at QuickSmart when aman in scrubs entered the store
and asked to use the phone.
He said he locked his keys inhis car.
She said he used the phone fivetimes and appeared highly
agitated.
A few minutes after the manleft the store, she received a
phone call asking if anyone hadbeen trying to reach him.
Jennifer told him that the manhad gone.
(13:14):
Brad arrived at his apartment at7.30 and he and Lisa changed
clothes for dinner.
Brad said he was going to takeher to the best Thai restaurant
in Tucson.
Lisa asked him if he was seeingother women and he got angry
and denied it.
Brad kept getting on his phone.
Once they were seated at therestaurant, though, he told Lisa
that a friend from rehab washaving trouble with his car and
(13:34):
would join them as Brad neededto help him out.
A cabbie picked up a man outsidean all-nude strip club called
the Bunny Ranch.
Where he picked up a manoutside an all-nude strip club
called the bunny ranch.
Where where he picked up a manwho appeared to have just
crossed the street and was outof breath.
The man said he needed to go toa thai restaurant near the
corner of campbell avenue andgrant road, but he didn't know
(13:56):
the restaurant's name.
He asked to borrow the cabbie'sphone and got more specific
direction directions to therestaurant.
Brad saw the cab pull up to therestaurant and asked Lisa for
cash to pay for the cab.
Oh, I see you, he's so grossBrad right.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
You're on a date.
Also, you're the surgeon.
You're asking me for cash.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Right, but they're on a date and he's like to his
date.
Can you pay for this unwantedvisitors.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, cab, and also you just been sitting on your
phone the whole time after Iaccuse you of talking to other
women, and now we have this guyjoining us, okay red flags
abound, okay, so, brad, she didthat.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
um, brad brought the man into the restaurant and
introduced him to l.
This is Bruce, bruce, lisaGoldberg.
Bruce then ordered a beer,which Lisa thought was strange
because Brad had told her he washis friend from rehab.
So that didn't work.
Brad and Lisa had almostfinished their meals when Bruce
arrives, so Brad gave Bruce hisleftovers to fish through Gross
(15:05):
Classy.
Brad paid for the meals, atleast, and then they left in his
SUV.
Hey, how did those scrubs workout for you?
Brad asked Bruce.
Just great.
Bruce replied.
Then he explained to Lisa thathe wanted to go horseback riding
, but he didn't have anything towear.
So what do you wear when youwant to go horseback riding?
(15:25):
I mean, obviously, scrubs,obviously hopefully you have a
saddle and brad loaned him ascrubsuit.
Um.
So then the threesome went tovarious hotels and it took a
while before they found one thathad a vacancy.
And finally brad checked brBruce into a room before taking
(15:45):
Lisa back to his home.
The day after the murder,police located Brian's Lexus at
an apartment complex six milesaway from the office park.
Brian's blood was found on theinterior driver's side door and
it was concluded that he waskilled in the vehicle and then
dragged into the parking lot tomake it appear as if it was a
(16:06):
carjacking.
So back to the murder.
So police have discovered thathe's murdered.
They went to give Daphne, hiswife, the devastating news, but
they had trouble getting her toanswer the door.
They rang the doorbell multipletimes and they tried calling,
but they got a busy signal.
They tried the door handle,which was open, but a security
(16:29):
chain had stopped it.
So they got permission from lawenforcement to enter the
premises and entered it throughan unlocked garage door.
The car in the garage was notBrian's Lexus but was registered
to both Brian and Daphne.
Police entered the masterbedroom and saw a woman lying on
her side in bed.
They shone a flashlight andcalled her name.
(16:50):
Daphne immediately sat up andblurted is my husband okay?
Is he shot?
What?
When the investigator asked why, she would ask that she
explained well, because he'smissing.
He didn't come home, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I suppose this is before like cell phone era, so
we have to remember that too butis that your first thought when
your husband doesn't come home?
Well, I mean, that wouldn't bethe first thought about mine,
but I wouldn't have guessed thatfor brian either, that she'd be
worried that he's getting shotyeah.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Daphne then asked permission to put pajama pants
on and asked investigators washe shot?
Even though nobody saidanything about why they were
there, her husband, hiscondition or his whereabouts,
she continued to ask aboutwhether he was shot throughout
the investigation.
Detectives asked why her phonesweren't working.
So yeah, remember, cell phonesweren't a thing, so the
(17:46):
landlines weren't working.
Daphne said they hadn't workedsince Monday.
The detective asked if thephone wasn't working because it
was off the hook, which they hadseen.
The phone was off the hook.
She explained that cordlessphones would turn one another
off and the kids would play withthem by pushing the buttons,
and they just didn't use them.
(18:06):
The detectives point blank askedDaphne because she wasn't able
to wake up and the phones wereoff the hook if she had anything
to do with her husband's death.
She explained that she tooksleeping pills and she was
disoriented and denied havinganything to do with her
husband's death.
Curiously though, I shouldmention, the investigators saw
the living will and trustpaperwork, um, on her bedside
(18:32):
table.
So they asked her about it.
I mean his will and paperworkwhich is sitting on her bedside
table while she was sleeping.
Uh, they asked her how muchlife insurance was was on brian
and she said she didn't know butshe guessed it was about 500
000 or a million dollars.
I mean, you know one or theother oh yeah so similar.
(18:57):
When they asked her if there wasa life insurance policy on her
on herself she said no, and whenthey talked about it, she said
they had talked about it andthat she told brian that, well,
I just stay at home lookingafter our children, so it wasn't
worth it.
Eventually, though, daphne wastaken off the suspect list.
Her strange responses werechalked up to her being
(19:20):
medicated and in shock.
Next we're going to learn aboutthe investigation, the trial,
the verdict and updates on thestatus of the people convicted
of the crime, but first it'stime for our chart note segment.
Welcome to chart note segment,where we learn about what's
happening in medicine andhealthcare.
(19:40):
Okay, so I came across anarticle that shocked me this
week.
I had no idea that this waseven a thing, and it happened in
2003, so I'm a little bitbehind the times, but according
to this medscape article, thestate medical board of ohio
revoked the license of a plasticsurgeon after she live streamed
surgical procedures on tiktok,potentially endangering patients
(20:01):
.
Her name name is CatherineRoxanne Groh MD.
She was a plastic surgeon whopracticed in the wealthy
Columbus suburb of Powell, ohio.
Among other misconductaccusations, the board stated
that quote during some videoslive streams.
You engage in dialogue torespond to viewers' online
(20:23):
questions, while the surgicalprocedure remains actively
ongoing.
End quote.
One patient needed emergencytreatment following liposuction
and was diagnosed with aperforated bowel and severe
bacterial infection.
Oh my god sorry just by lico'sliposuction being a blind
(20:43):
surgery that requires awarenessof the tip of the cannula to
avoid injury, your attention tothe camera meant at those
moments you were not looking atthe patient or palpating the
location of the tip of thecannula.
The medical board said Grau,known as Dr Roxy, has a popular
TikTok account, which is now setto private, with 841,600
(21:04):
followers and 14.6 million likes.
She has another 123,000followers on her Instagram
account, which is also nowprivate.
The dispatch reported thatgrowl had previously been warned
to protect patient privacy onsocial media, so it wasn't that
she just was going into it blind, like she was warned.
(21:26):
According to Columbus TVstation WSYX, she said in a
TikTok video we show oursurgeries every single day on
Snapchat.
Patients get to decide if theywant to be a part of it and if
you do, you can watch your ownsurgery.
The TV station quoted formerpatients who described surgical
complications, and one said Iwent to her because I thought
(21:48):
from all of her social mediathat she uplifted women, that
she helped women empowerthemselves, but she didn't about
social media best practices andhas 430,000 followers on
Instagram.
Said in an interview that manysurgeons have been reprimanded
by state medical boards forbeing distracted by social media
(22:10):
during procedures.
Quote.
It's best not to do livestreaming unless it's an
educational event to demonstratetechniques and technology with
full informed consent of thepatient.
It should be a very wellrehearsed event for education.
End quote.
He said I mean I just have totake a breath here, can you?
(22:32):
I mean you know there's thosetiktok videos where the guys in
the restaurant are doing theeggs and the omelets and you
know the camera's set up by thefry station and it's like super
cute.
You can see like oh my god,look at those hash browns look
amazing and everybody'scoordinated and working together
.
Can you imagine a surgery?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
No, my, my jaw went to the floor again.
I was like, wait, what I waslike how does?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
first of all, yeah, I can't imagine getting past
patient privacy, but also like,absolutely you're distracted
well, yeah, the specificallywith the live streaming and
answering questions, like,concentrate on what you're doing
, like even if you stop whatyou're doing to answer a
question and you're not activelyperforating a bowel while
(23:17):
you're doing to answer aquestion and you're not actively
perforating a bowel whileyou're answering a question,
let's assume that you stop yoursurgery and you turn around to
answer a question.
How is that fair Now thatpatient's under anesthesia for
longer, potentially more fluidor blood loss like I don't
understand how this is ever okay, ever.
I found it shocking and this islike two-year-old news, but
(23:42):
anyway, hopefully some of ourlisteners will be shocked as
well and apparently nurses havealso been disciplined for
inappropriate posts on socialmedia.
Not too long ago, an Atlantahospital announced that four
nurses were no longer on the jobafter they appeared in a TikTok
video in scrubs and revealedtheir icks regarding obstetric
(24:03):
care.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, I did see, though I saw those videos.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
That's my worst nightmare.
Can you imagine You're sovulnerable and like how, how
dare you, how, how dare you?
Uh, okay.
So the University of Michiganplastic surgeon, christian
Verkler, who studied socialmedia guidelines for surgeons,
said in an interview thatplastic surgery content on
(24:30):
TikTok has blown up in recentyears.
Five years or so ago, it wasSnapchat where I saw a lot of
inappropriate things posted bysurgeons.
Verkler told Medscape that maystill be happening on Snapchat,
but I actually don't ever usethat platform anymore.
So, okay, all right, dude, okaySnapchat's old news.
Well, thank God, because I neverfigured out how to use it in
(24:51):
the first place.
But Verkler cautionedcolleagues to consider their
motivations for live streamingsurgery and to think about
whether they can fully focus onthe patient.
There's so many potentialdistractions in the OR.
We get pages, phone calls,nurses asking questions,
anesthesiologists trying to talkto us.
Social media is just one morething competing for the
surgeon's attention.
(25:12):
He said Every surgeon shouldstrive to eliminate unnecessary
or unavoidable distractions.
So the question becomes who isbest being served by me focusing
my attention on recording thisoperation on someone's phone so
that we can post it on socialmedia?
Is it the patient?
Verkler added there are many,many plastic surgeons using
(25:33):
social media as a powerfulplatform to build their brands,
connect with patients andeducate the public about what
they do.
I believe that most are doingthis in a way that's respectful
of the patients and doesn'texploit them for the surgeon's
benefit.
But unfortunately, he concluded, there are some who do see
patients as merely instrumentsby which they can achieve fame,
notoriety and wealth.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh, I mean, I agree with that.
I feel like most of the onesI've seen are not leaking
patient information.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It's not a privacy issue.
I've not come across a live ofsomeone doing surgery, but I
guess maybe my for you page is alittle different.
Mine's usually Taylor Swiftvideos.
Yeah, I just didn't even knowthat would be a possibility with
HIPAA and everything else.
So, okay, eye-opening.
Speaking of eyes, let's go backto our ophthalmology murderer
story.
Nice segue, did you like that?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I did Look at what you did there I saw it All right
.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So the investigation.
I don't know why it took solong, but it took the medical
examiner six hours to get to thescene of the murder.
So it took them six hours toget there, examine the area and
then transport the body for anautopsy.
Luckily this occurred beforethe offices opened in the
morning, but the fire departmentwas busy washing the blood off
(27:01):
the pavement when the employeesarrived.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Happy Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
That's just awful.
Brian's staff already knew thathe was murdered because police
had to contact all of them totry and get the access code to
enter the building at 2 in themorning because detectives
wanted to investigate the officefor potential clues.
That night Tucson policeofficer DE Martinez was
patrolling a neighborhood in theMidtown area and he came across
(27:30):
Brian's missing Lexus.
A bolo had gone out withvehicle description and the
license plate number.
So Martinez called the PimaCounty Sheriff's Department, who
dispatched unmarked units tosurveil the car in case the
murderer came back to it.
But nobody came.
So the next morning they calledup the surveillance and
searched the car.
They found that the key wasstill in the ignition and there
(27:53):
was blood on the driver's sideof the car and inside the Lexus
as well.
They could also see a cellphone.
In plain view Whoever killedBrian had done it while he'd
been getting into his car andthen dragged him out of the car
and onto the pavement.
They then drove Brian's car toan apartment complex and ditched
it.
Police questioned residents ofthe apartment complex where the
(28:14):
car was located and they didn'tcome up with anything helpful,
except one woman who lived nextto the complex who said she'd
seen the Lexus before and thatthe driver was a man in his 50s
with gray hair, mustache andglasses.
Meanwhile, brad calls LisaGoldberg to tell her Brian's
been murdered.
Lisa was shocked and laterremarked how calm and
(28:35):
matter-of-fact Brad sounded whenhe gave her the news.
Oh my god, what happened?
She asked he was killed.
Brad said on Tuesday night.
Remember Tuesday?
That was the night we went outto dinner at Karuna's.
No, no, it can't be.
She exclaimed, bursting intotears.
Brad, everything you've saidabout Brian, brad, brad, did you
have anything to do withBrian's death, lisa?
(28:58):
Brad said calmly I have nothingto gain from Brian's death and
remember, you're my alibi.
Okay.
Lisa hung up the phone on Bradand refused to answer his calls,
although he kept calling andleaving her messages.
That night she mustered enoughcourage to call the Pima County
Sheriff's Department.
She told the officer, sergeantFaust, that she was worried Brad
(29:21):
might have had Brian killed.
She told Faust all about theirstrange date and that creepy guy
, bruce.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
She described Bruce as Italian in his 40s and having
what she described as a fake.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
New York accent, new York, new York baby and a fake
New York accent.
He told me he was from themidwest.
Lisa said I didn't trust himand I don't think he was using
his real name.
Lisa told the officer about thenumber of the hotels that
they'd visited that night to tryand find a room for bruce.
So investigators followed up onthat and investigated hotels in
the area, getting lists ofoccupants who checked in that
(29:59):
night.
And bingo, bruce Bigger's namewas on the registration list for
the residence and, havingchecked in at 10 52 pm on
October 5th, the manager alsogave detectives a copy of the
receipt for the hotel room and alist of phone calls made from
the room.
Police interviewed a staffmember on duty the night bruce
(30:22):
checked in.
She said he checked into hisroom and came out 10 minutes
later asking where to get food.
She pointed to the snack bar inthe lobby oh, brad scraps
weren't enough.
Huh, bruce just licking hisplate clean wasn't good enough.
I get it.
I get it, dude, uh.
So she pointed to the snack barand, uh, he asked her if she
(30:43):
wanted anything, because I canpay for it he said big stud.
There were many bags.
Yeah, she said he bought aboatload of food and was very
chatty with her.
I'm having a bad day, he saidto her and the other hotel staff
.
My rental car caught on fire.
I'm trying to do like a badmovie.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
My rental car caught on fire.
Do you have any water?
He then got a call for his roomfrom a woman and he went to his
room.
A while later he again pitchedup at the front desk with a
woman that staff described aswhite, 5'8" and dark blonde hair
.
Actually, can I just be honestwith everybody?
They didn't say dark blondehair, they said dirty blonde.
(31:25):
And I just hate that, can wenot?
I just hate that description.
Okay, anyway, someone withdirty blonde hair is objecting
as a know uh, as as a holder ofdirty blonde hair.
Anyway, the employee said thatbruce had creeped her out and
that she had asked security hangout with her whenever he was
(31:47):
around.
I mean, there was some redflags there.
So that night bruce visited twofriends of his, chris corley
and chris carney, at theirapartment.
He flashed a large wad of cashand said he wanted a rental car
to go to Las Vegas and party.
Where'd you get so much money?
Chris asked Ah, you know, I gotconnections to the mafia.
(32:08):
Bruce posted my uncle.
He owns this high classrestaurant here.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I'm getting more and more New york.
Um meanwhile, lisa goldbergcontacted investigators because
she was concerned that a blacksuv was following her.
Investigators told the state,told her to stay at a friend's
house and contact them.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Uh, when she arrived, safely um quick shout out to
lisa for calling the police inthe first place.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Shout out, lisa yeah, girl, you got to make sure
you're safe.
Um, red flags need to beattended to, so good for her.
Uh, two nights after the murder, the moida lord is finally
sorry I have to do that finallyhad enough battling her
conscience and arguing with bradwho kept calling her about
(32:59):
whether or not she was.
He was involved in the murderand lord has called the public
information officer for pimacounty sheriff's department.
The woman's name was donbarkman.
Lord has trusted her becausethey worked together in the past
and lord has asked don to meether in person and when they met
up she told her everything sheknew.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Spill them beans girl .
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Go girl.
On October 15th DetectiveAnderson was assigned to talk to
Chris Corley and Chris Carneyto trace Bruce Bigger's step.
Following the murder, andersonwas told Bigger had come to
their apartment with a lot ofmoney and wanted to party in
Vegas, but didn't havetransportation.
Eventually Bruce took off witha mutual friend, teresa Morales.
The Volvo was later found tobelong to someone else.
(33:43):
Police went to the area whereTeresa was said to be living and
found her lying on a dirt roadwith the Volvo stuck nearby,
having unsuccessfully cleared awater main.
I know she got up when she sawthe patrol cars and police found
Bruce Bigger in the vehicle.
Both of them were taken intocustody.
Police noticed a cut underBruce's left eye and asked him
(34:06):
what happened.
Bruce said Teresa was drinking,got a little crazy.
Of course always the girl'sfault.
He declined to press charges.
Meanwhile Teresa had a weltbelow her right eye and scrapes
about two to three inches longacross her left shoulder.
But she also declined to presscharges With a suspected hitman
(34:27):
in custody.
The police focused on themastermind.
They showed up at Brad's homeand surrounded it.
He surrendered without incidentbut he made sure to let the
deputy know that he recently hadshoulder surgery, so his
shoulder was sore so the deputyused two interlocking handcuffs
to restrain him no, brad, he'sbeen through a lot I know
(34:49):
shameys.
Uh, before the patrol carcarrying brad to the sheriff's
headquarters left the complex,the arresting sheriff made sure
that the daily newspapers andall three tv news rooms were
notified that the man suspectedof ordering brian's death was in
custody and that anyone wantingto photograph him should be
aware.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
It's like the um, uh, like pre-tmz or yeah, is that
what it is, tmz?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Absolutely a TMZ move .
Every local news outlet thencaught Brad Schwartz in his perp
walk.
I mean, he was led into a smallinterrogation room in the
sheriff's office where hestarted whinging on about how he
wanted his cuffs taken offbecause his scrub shirt was on
(35:37):
backwards.
They didn't search him, uh.
So I mean I assume they didn'tsearch him because he started
calling lordis whenever um theinvestigators would leave the
room and he'd start.
He was just begging her to behis lawyer.
I mean, poor lordis, she wasterrified.
She didn't want him to find outthat she went to the police
(35:58):
because, like I, I mean thiskind of murder.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I can't be your lawyer.
I went to the police, friend, Iknow Conflict of interest.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Exactly.
By the way, you're an arse andthere's no way I'm going to
represent you.
So she was nicer about it.
She told him that under nocircumstances would she
represent him, but that didn'tstop him from calling her back
repeatedly, harassing her andbegging her and trying to
manipulate her into helping him.
When the police discovered himon his phone, asked him what he
(36:27):
was doing, he said I'm justcalling my lawyer, okay, brad
didn't want to wait for that onephone call, I got my own phone
guy.
That's fine yeah, like just takethe phone away from him.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I was thinking like maybe they were being sneaky,
and like watching from thetwo-way mirror situation and
like we're going to let himthink that he's doing something
sneaky, but we're justeavesdropping.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I mean, I think they were just ducking out for donuts
, honestly.
But okay, maybe, but maybe.
Anyway, brad's bail was set ata million dollars, all right, so
Brad ended up retaining alawyer, mike Picoretta, who had
represented Brad in federalcourt for his drug charges.
Picoretta attempted to move thetrial to a different county
(37:13):
based on all the media attentionin the area, but the judge
refused.
Out of 450 prospective jurors,379, or 84% of them, had read
about or viewed somethingrelated to this case.
So when the jury was finallywhittled down to 29 people, 24
of those people, or 83%, knewabout the case, including the
(37:35):
type of weapon used, detailsaboutis's involvement with brad
and brad's previous uh criminalactivities and trial outcomes.
Bruce and brad were scheduledto be tried jointly, but bruce's
defense attorney, jill thorpe,announced that bruce's defense
was that brad killed brian.
So bruce needed to have his owntrial and it was.
(37:55):
It was granted brad's courtappointed uh, brad had a court
appointed attorney, brick stortz, the third um.
His strategy was that the statecouldn't prove that bruce had
the time to kill brian and ifbruce didn't do it, then brad
was innocent.
Opening statements weredelivered on march 7th and
(38:16):
broadcast live on Court TV'swebsite on 48 Hours and Dateline
.
Pima County Deputy AttorneySylvia Lafferty told jurors that
Brad was an angry man obsessedwith revenge because of what
Brian had done to him Afterfailing to recruit people to
damage Brian's reputation.
She maintained that herecruited Lourdes' ex-husband,
(38:39):
danny Lopez, to kill Brian, butDanny died before he could do so
.
Evidence provided was a photoof Brian found in Danny's wallet
.
Brad turned to Bruce to carryout the plan instead.
Dna evidence from Brian'sstolen Lexus will link Bruce
Bigger to the crime.
Lafferty told jurors.
The morning after the murder,brad took $10,000 in cash from
(39:01):
his bank account.
Bruce Bigger, who was so brokehe couldn't afford the cab fare
and had to eat sloppy secondsfrom Brad's plate the night of
the murder, then took twofriends on a spending spree in
Vegas.
Stortz countered that Brucedidn't commit the crime, so Brad
was innocent.
Bruce would have had to stabBrian 15 times, find the keys to
(39:24):
take the Lexus, dispose of hisbloodstained clothes, drive the
Lexus to the apartment complexsix miles away, walk to a
restaurant, use the phone all inthe time span of 16 to 19
minutes.
Stortz said that the jury wouldhear testimony from a medical
examiner that the time of deathwas actually closer to the time
when Brian's body was actuallydiscovered, which would
(39:44):
eliminate Brad and Bruce assuspects, since they had an
alibi.
They were both with LisaGoldberg at that time.
At dinner Stortz explained thatBrad's practice was doing well
at the time of Brian's death,making about $250,000.
Why then would he wait untilhis success was on the rise and
everything was going back intoplace for him to go out now and
(40:05):
act on this man that he hated,to find someone to kill him?
Stortz asked Witness testimonyincluded Dr Jason Lee, who
testified that he told thedetective in December that the
man he saw in the scrubs at themedical complex on the night of
the murder was not Brad or Bruce.
Jennifer Dainty, the conveniencestore cashier, testified about
a man in scrubs who came intoher store on October 5th.
(40:28):
Lafferty showed Dainty a lightblue scrub top taken from Brad's
apartment and Dainty said itlooked similar to the top that
the man wore in the store thatnight.
She said she picked Bruce'sphoto out of a lineup, but other
witnesses also saw a man inscrubs at the store who said
they didn't recognize Bruce'sphoto.
The cab driver testified thathe picked up a man in his cab
(40:49):
that night to drive him from theBunny Ranch to the Thai
restaurant.
But he also couldn't identifyBruce Bigger as the man in the
cab.
Lisa Goldberg struck animmunity deal with prosecutors
in exchange for her testimonyand she testified against him.
Lourdes' testimony was prettydamning.
She told the court Brad wasupset because Dr Stidham left
(41:09):
him when he needed him the most.
Brad told me he wanted DrStidham to die.
He said this fucking guy isgoing to die, end quote.
But Lourdes also said she nevertook his threat seriously.
He is a doctor.
He's been given a gift.
He's supposed to preserve life.
He took an oath to do that.
He's a very good father and hehas everything to live for.
He would never throw everythingaway because of anger.
(41:32):
No, I just had to chuckle quickat that.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
He's such a good father and while, like, I can't
say he's not, but you wanted tooffer up naked pictures of your
child, sir yeah, I can't getover that, right.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
uh, crime scene reconstructionist tim bright,
who was hired to do a study forthe defense, testified for the
state that he could make thetrip from Brian's medical
complex to the apartment complexwhere his car was found in 13
minutes.
Then there was a lot of backand forth about DNA evidence.
The core question was whether asmall amount of DNA found on a
console knob in Brian's Lexuswas Bruce's.
(42:11):
Curtis Reinhold, a DNA analystfor the Arizona Department of
Public Safety, testified thatone in 20 billion whites have
the same DNA type found on theknob.
The defense then called a DNAexpert hired by the state, robin
Cotton of Selmer Labs, totestify about the blood found in
Brian's Lexus.
She corroborated that the bloodwas mostly Brian's but said she
(42:34):
saw some DNA that was linked toDaphne Stidham and that Bruce
Biggers' DNA was excluded.
Then Brian Raxall was called tothe stand.
He was a noted DNA expert andsaid that the DNA was more
common than previously stated.
He said that one in 1,363 couldhave been a match, not one in
20 million.
(42:54):
I mean that's a huge difference.
Therefore, bruce could not beexcluded from contributing the
DNA.
Okay, so on april 20th 2006,lafferty and stortz delivered
their closing arguments.
Lafferty reminded jurors aboutthe women who said brad
(43:14):
threatened to have brian killedand the evidence that indicated
danny lopez had been hired tokill brian.
When brian was killed, brad wasdeeply in debt and when bruce
came into brad's life theyconspired to kill him.
Stortz said that the firstquestion that jurors should ask
themselves is whether the stateproved beyond a reasonable doubt
that Brian died between 7.26and 8.46 pm.
(43:34):
If the state hasn't proven thatto you beyond a reasonable
doubt, then Dr Schwartz is notguilty of either first-degree
murder or conspiracy to commitfirst-degree murder.
We can talk about a whole lotof things, but that's the real
issue right here.
If Dr Stidham wasn't killed inthat period of time roughly 19
minutes and 23 seconds by MrBigger, then this case is over.
(43:59):
The jury deliberated for fivedays before delivering a verdict
.
Guilty of conspiracy to commitfirst-degree murder, they were
deadlocked.
On the first-degree murdercharge, brad was sentenced to
life in prison with thepossibility of parole after 25
years.
After deliberating forapproximately 17 hours over four
days, the jury found BruceBigger guilty of conspiring to
(44:22):
kill Stidham and carrying outthe attack on the pediatric eye
surgeon.
The jury found Bigger guilty ofboth conspiracies to commit
first-degree murder andfirst-degree murder itself.
He was sentenced to life inprison without parole.
Updates on Bruce His attorneysare requesting a retrial because
(44:44):
new technology can conduct adeeper dive into DNA analysis
now.
So the tiny amount of DNA thatprosecuted prosecutors said
showed bigger's presence at thecrime scene is crucial to the
case.
It's the only evidence thatputs Bruce bigger at the scene,
said David Eukener.
Appellate appellate probablyprobably appellate and not
(45:07):
appellate appellate unitsupervisor and resource council
of the Pima County PublicDefender's Office.
Now we see the evidence is justas exclusionary as it is
inclusionary, he said at theconclusion of a three-day
hearing that ended on April 12thof 2024.
There's your reasonable doubtright there.
There's not one shred ofphysical evidence that the
(45:29):
underlying data has changedsince 2007, said Thomas
McDermott of the Pima CountyAttorney's Office, which
prosecuted the case.
So the defense must prove thatevidence discovered after
Bigger's trial could probablychange the verdict.
Mcdermott said At the time ofthe trials one speck of DNA
evidence on the console known asLX39, contained DNA other than
(45:51):
Stidham's.
While it wasn't clear cut,experts for the state contended
it was similar enough toBigger's DNA to claim it was
probably his.
Eukener said Bigger's trialattorneys weren't wrong to
present the evidence that theydid in countering the state's
evidence, but the witnesses theyused, who were top experts in
the field, didn't know whatexperts know now.
What we've been talking aboutin this hearing over three days
(46:14):
is nothing like what was talkedabout 17 years ago during Mr
Bigger's trial, eupner said.
At the time of the trials, leadprosecutor Sylvia Lafferty
asked the Arizona Department ofPublic Safety analysts to lower
the threshold for detecting DNA,which then showed two people
contributed to the DNA in LX39.
(46:34):
Everything below the thresholdwas not considered.
But in 2014, seven years afterBigger's trial, software that
better defines DNA at lowerthresholds was developed.
With newer software, the DNA inLX39 shows that another person
was a contributor, which makesthe chances of one of the other
contributors much less likely tobe bigger.
(46:55):
The third contributor isthought to be from Daphne
Stidham, stidham's widow.
The defense isn't saying thatDaphne had anything to do with
her husband's murder, but as hiswife, it would be natural for
her DNA to be in his car.
Mcdermott said Eukner shouldhave filed his appeal 10 years
ago when the software wasdeveloped.
(47:16):
Yeah right, good point, butEukner said knowledge of the
software development wasn't madepublic until 2018.
He learned about it througharticles, including one written
by Dr Michael Kobel, whotestified for the state during
the three-day hearing.
Euchner and co-counsel TimothyEckstein filed a request for a
(47:47):
new hearing, but the COVID-19pandemic slowed the request down
and their progress is unknownas of my research this week.
Okay, so to update on BradSchwartz.
On September 27th 2024,schwartz left a creative writing
class.
Isn't that nice he's doingcreative writing.
He left a creative writingclass in the Rincon unit of the
Arizona State Prison Complex inTucson and he was attacked on
his way to the bathroom, saidhis criminal defense attorney
(48:14):
stortz.
He spent a few days in theintensive care unit and
underwent two plastic surgeriesonce the swelling subsided the
form, I mean it must have beenserious.
The former doctor was releasedfrom the hospital after 10 days
and is now housed in a Florenceprison unit.
And in the irony, to end allironies, his if you look up a
picture of Brad Schwartz hisright eyelid is drooping over
(48:39):
his eye and he has visionproblems in that eye.
So he's going to have toundergo some more surgery.
He needs a blast he needshimself to.
Yeah, apparently he's beenattacked four times.
In two of the incidences it wasthe same inmate.
He sustained neck and shoulderinjuries and minor injuries in
(49:02):
September.
Prison officials have beenasked to place him in protective
custody.
I think he's a target not onlybecause he was a doctor, but
because of the case and the factthat inmates probably assume he
comes from a family of means,said stortz.
His lawyer, brian, has alawsuit pending which seats
seeks compensatory damages forpain and suffering and medical
(49:23):
expenses.
And that is a wrap.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Oh wow, great job on all of your research.
Well thank you.
I uh Wow, brad, do you thinkthat Bruce is gonna?
I mean that that's gonna goanywhere?
Because, so what I was thinkingis yes, I mean that that's
(49:50):
going to go anywhere, because.
So what I was thinking is yes,the DNA testing has come a long
way, got it Good.
It should it needed to.
But like you were a suspect fora reason, my dude, I mean, you
know what I mean.
Yeah, I wouldn't have beenpicked off the street and
someone was like you must havehad something to do with this
and you fall under this umbrella, so it must have been you like
(50:13):
yeah, I mean, I think there'senough um sort of evidence and
there's the motive, there's the,the likelihood, the, the.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
I don't know if it does go back to court, they're
going to have to prove um beyonda reasonable doubt, um, but
like, what are the odds?
You're looking someone's I knowthis is circumstantial evidence
, but like you're on the threadsof your genes and you're
licking someone's leftover plateand then the next day you've
got a wad of cash and you'retaking people to after the
(50:50):
murder, yeah, and you'rereasoning for all this all the
sudden having all this moneybecause your friends know you
don't have money and you're like, oh I got ties to the mafia.
My uncle, da da da, it's like no, yeah, I mean they were.
They were filmed together, um,filmed there.
There is video footage of thetwo of them entering multiple
(51:10):
hotels.
They had dinner together.
There were multiple witnessesthat they were obviously a thing
.
So here's this patient ofBrad's Sorry, this patient of
Brad's.
And I mean, what reason?
What reason do they have toaffiliate with one another?
Was that that Brad used people?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
And Brad was asking everyone over again hey, you
know anyone that can dosomething for me?
So who's to say he didn't startasking his patients that?
Speaker 1 (51:41):
So there's the motive , there's the the suspicious
like.
I mean, bruce was not above, uh, assaulting people or or, you
know, getting paid for criminalactivity, as his record shows.
So I just think it would behard.
Um, I don't even know if theyneed that spot of blood in the
(52:02):
car.
They have um video footage ofthe two of them together on the
evening, evidence of him havingall of a sudden a bunch of money
the next day.
I don't know, I don't know whatit would take.
What would you think if youwere on the jury and there
wasn't a blood spot?
Would you still think Bruce wasproven guilty beyond a
(52:25):
reasonable doubt?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
I think so, but I'm like, am I?
Biased just because we justlistened to this whole story.
Yeah, Because if it's not youwho else is it?
Yeah, yeah.
I guess the only person thatcan probably really tell us is
Brad.
And do we think he's going tobe noble?
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
No, probably not.
I mean, maybe Brad did it orhis wife had some pretty sketchy
reactions to the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, that was really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
I think that was a red herring, but it was really
weird that she wouldn't answerthe door.
Yeah, I don't know.
It'll be interesting to see.
Um, we'll give you updates ifanything you know in the future,
if anything comes out of thisto prove us wrong.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
But yeah, yeah, well, great job, that's fascinating.
Yeah, thank you so, amanda, yes.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
What can our listeners expect to hear next?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
week next week, we are going to be uncovering a
juicy story of one of thebiggest fraudsters in us history
oh, my goodness, I can't waitto hear.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Will Will you give us a hint?
Uh, no, okay, we just have tostay tuned, uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
stay tuned, Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Um, I was kind of like, oh, I don't know, do I
want to do fraud?
Is that boring?
And then I started researchingand I was like, oh my gosh, so
it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
It's a good one.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yes, all right.
So, friends, dear friends,don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts for stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
We'd love to hear more from you.
Send us a text on our websiteat
(54:28):
doctoringthetruthbuzzsproutcom.
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Find and follow us on Instagramat doctoringthetruth.
We'll be back next week.
(54:49):
Stay safe and stay tuned.
Bye, bye, did it hit it?
hello, hello amanda how are you doing?
I'm doing so good.
How are you good?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
wow, can I just say wow, wow, like the biggest.
Wow you guys our listeners thebest the best.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You guys are so sweet .
We've been so overwhelmed withpeople reaching out to us,
texting, calling socials.
Did you guys know you couldtext us on our website?
People are texting us on there.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh, that's awesome, that's great.
And guess what, amanda?
We have people from multiplecountries.
We are international after oneepisode.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We're international after one episode.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We're international baby.
Okay, so can I say goodbye toour listeners in Australia,
cheerio and ta to our listenersin the UK.
We have listeners in Canada, eh,and France, Bonjour, oh that's
(01:09):
so exciting and you guys havegiven us such excellent comments
and helpful, uh, feedback.
We know we had a dumpster fireof audio issues at the end and I
will say somebody I'm notsaying who, oh, I will not say
who somebody had to pee and, uh,we had to hit pause and then,
(01:30):
okay, it was me and, um, so Icouldn't figure out how to align
the tracks after the pause forthe pee, and so you know what?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
guys, there was, there was re-recordings, there
was, it was a, it was a wholething.
So for everyone who told methat I should talk more on the
podcast, I guess enjoy episodeone, because usually I actually
talk too much.
Fun fact actually.
I'll share a little bit aboutme.
My classmates will rememberthis story, but I had to.
(02:02):
In one class my teacher pulledmy desk up to the chalkboard
because he thought I talked toomuch in class, so I had to do
class from the chalkboard whileeveryone else got to sit by each
other.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So anyway, well that teacher be so proud.
But listen, it's not going tobe all about me talking and
Amanda having to swallow hercomments.
Um, some of that was because ofthe pee, but also we are
trading off episodes, so theintention was to each have a
(02:34):
case every other week, but then,you know, I went long, so we're
doing two in a row because Icouldn't figure out how to cut.
But you know, typically you'regoing to from amanda one week
and and myself the next andsometimes you'll get a two pota,
okay, a two pota all of asudden.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
We're from boston, I know I love I love throwing a
boston accent and I was talkingto my friend brie about this
last weekend because I had toldyou after recording last time.
Like how do people in bostonsay brad?
Because the r obviously youhave to say, and so her and I
have deduced this to they say anr, and please correct us if I'm
(03:12):
wrong, if it's towards thebeginning but not at the end of
the word okay.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So it's okay, brad, but if it was bard, it would be
bad yeah I mean, I don't knowfor sure, but it made sense to
us in the parking lot yeah, wehad a potty at the potty.
Hey, we love east coast guys.
Yeah, I love it, um don't stop.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I just have one shout out before we begin.
I don't want to make this parttoo long, but in the first
episode we were talking about aband called Little Texas.
Right, little Texas, littleTexas.
And I was all I don't know,I've never heard of them.
Okay, and I said, well, myfriend is from Texas and I'm
(03:57):
going to ask her.
And I said, amy, do you knowwho Little Texas is?
And she said yeah, duh.
Well, not quite.
But she was like, oh, I used tojam out to achy, breaky heart
and, um, god bless Texas.
I started reading these titleswhen she messaged me back.
I'm like, wow, I'm an idiot.
I know all these songs, so I amsomeone who knows the lyrics,
(04:22):
but I didn't know who the uhartist was, unless you're taylor
swift.
So sorry.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, there you go.
Shout out to who was yourfriend, amy amy, amy, amy.
Thanks for listening, and youknow reading amanda the duh act.
So yeah, um, that's awesome.
We're so excited to bring youpart two of the episode Sins of
(04:56):
the Stethoscope.
But let's have a quick recap.
Last week we talked about thebrutal and senseless murder of
Dr Brian Stidham, a belovedfather, husband and pediatric
ophthalmology surgeon.
On the night of October 5, 2004, brian was found stabbed 15 to
17 times, lying on the pavementin front of his office building
with a piece of pizza next tohim.
(05:17):
We learned Dr Stidham respondedto an advertisement to take
over the pediatric patients at athriving ophthalmology practice
in Tucson, arizona.
He'd only been working with theowner of the practice, fellow
ophthalmology surgeon Dr BradleySchwartz, for a month Only a
month when, in December 2001,the DEA raided the office.
(05:39):
Schwartz was then indicted by afederal grand jury on 77 counts
of illegally obtainingprescription medicine.
He went off to rehab for fourmonths, leaving Brian Stidham,
no, brian, no, leaving Brian topick up the pieces.
Yeah, brian Stidham, sorry.
(06:00):
All of a sudden I got a littleweird.
Like am I mixing up?
There's so many bees in thisepisode.
Okay, brian stood him to pickup the pieces.
Brian got busy creating his ownpractice which enraged bradley
and seemed to consume bradley'severy waking moment with
thoughts of revenge.
We talked about multiple women,lovers and people with whom
(06:21):
bradley came into contact andhow obsessed he was with getting
even to the point that he askedabout hitmen and even proposed
framing Brian by having someoneplant child pornography in
Brian's office, proposing thathe could take naked naked photos
of his own son, by the way.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Disgusting creature named Brad, absolutely
disgusting.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, nobody took him seriously, nobody took the bait
, until a man named Bruce Biggercame along.
I mean, with a name like that.
He sounds like a Disney villain, doesn't he?
Yeah, he sure does.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I can picture the long face already.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Right On September 4th 2004, tucson Medical Center
sent a patient to see Brad foran injury to his right eye.
Brad performed surgery on himon September 15th 2004.
That was the beginning of thattwisted relationship, which
we're going to learn more aboutlater.
But let me give you a littlebackground on Bruce first,
(07:24):
ronald later.
But let me give you a littlebackground on bruce first,
ronald bruce bigger is the onlychild of david and mary sued
bigger.
When bruce was four years old,his father, david, was injured
after a train collided with hiscar.
I can't believe he's injuredand not, yeah, wiped out, but uh
, eventually he died from hisinjuries.
After his death it was wasdiscovered that David had been
(07:46):
embezzling money from the bankthat he worked for.
Bruce often told his friendsthat he suspected his father was
being chased by someone whocaused him to drive in front of
the train.
Mary Sue was a patrol officerfor the LaPorte County Police
Department.
Two years after Bruce'sfather's death, she met and
(08:07):
married a man who was physicallyand emotionally abusive towards
Bruce.
Five years later she divorcedhim.
Bruce attended Catholic schoolsand was an average student.
He was described as talkative,athletic, he dressed well and he
liked to read about sports.
His mother eventually marriedagain, although the marriage
only lasted three years.
(08:28):
Bruce went to college at age 18on a partial football
scholarship.
At 20 years old, in 1997, hetransferred to Ball State
University, but his footballcareer ended when he suffered
injuries from a car accident.
By that time he was heavilyinvolved in alcohol and the drug
scene, and he was addicted toalcohol, cocaine and marijuana.
(08:50):
Although he eventually droppedout of university, he often told
people he had advanced financedegrees.
Bruce moved to Chicago and gotvarious jobs, primarily
excelling in sales.
He was terrible with money.
His mother often had to bailhim out of his financial
predicaments, and his life tooka turn for the worst when his
(09:11):
great grandmother and great auntdied around the same time in
1998, and he began incurring DUIcitations.
Bruce was arrested in 2004 forforging his grandmother's
signature on a check from heraccount.
Bruce took off for Arizonaduring his probation and entered
the drug scene living on thestreets.
(09:32):
Yeah, hard times.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, I mean he definitely had a lot going for
him.
But it's a shame what moneyissues can do.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
It's a shame what money issues can do.
On September 4, 2004,.
Police were called at 4.30 pmto reports of an assault at the
Circle K convenience store.
A 19-year-old man, David,reported that he and his
girlfriend Yuna were walkinginto the store when a man
confronted him and punched himin the head several times.
She is I can't imagine.
(10:05):
When David fell to the ground,the man began kicking him in the
ribs.
Una ran into the store andyelled for the cashier to call
911.
The cashier ordered theassailant to leave the store and
David was taken to a nearbyhospital for treatment.
The suspect left in a white SUV.
Since the cashier wrote downthe license plate and number of
(10:26):
the SUV clever cashier policewere able to locate him.
Police records, trace hisidentity and then issued a stop
and arrest order for Bruce ontwo counts of assault, and he
was arrested two days later.
Bruce claimed that Davidstarted the assault and that he
(10:47):
was mad that bruce was defendinghimself and was able to beat
him up.
Okay, on 99 2004, policeresponded to a call for a
domestic incident.
When they arrived at theapartment, they found bruce
bleeding from the face andsitting on a couch.
He said that two black men cameinto the apartment and began
hitting him, accusing him ofassaulting their sister.
(11:10):
This was when he was admittedto the hospital in Tucson and
met Brad for an eye exam due tohis injuries.
Oh, it's a meat cute.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Oh, I hate to see it cute, oh hate to see it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Twelve days later he was arrested for driving with a
suspended license and found tohave drug paraphernalia in his
car, including a crack pipeCasual.
So back to the murder.
On October 5th after 4pm LisaGoldberg arrived at Brad's
office in Tucson with herovernight bag, her dog and some
study materials that she had onhand as she was scheduled to
(11:48):
take her real estate licenseexam the next day.
She was going to spend theweekend with Brad and they
planned to have dinner together.
Brad introduced her to JulieHarrington, an office
esthetician, and said that Juliewould show her around while he
finished his patients for theday.
So Julie took Lisa to a localcoffee shop and warned her that
(12:10):
you know, as a good friend doesthat.
Brad was not faithful and thiswas news to Lisa.
They returned to the officearound 530 and Lisa followed
Brad to his home where she lether dog inside.
Jason Lee, a medical student,arrived at the complex just
before 6 pm to attend DrStidham's medical lecture.
(12:30):
A man in scrubs approached himin the parking lot asking if he
needed help.
Jason asked him where DrStidham's office was and the man
pointed him to an officestating that he'd seen pizza
being delivered there recently.
Meanwhile, a few blocks fromthe complex, a woman named
Jennifer Dainty how cute of aname is that, Jennifer Dainty
(12:51):
was working at QuickSmart when aman in scrubs entered the store
and asked to use the phone.
He said he locked his keys inhis car.
She said he used the phone fivetimes and appeared highly
agitated.
A few minutes after the manleft the store, she received a
phone call asking if anyone hadbeen trying to reach him.
Jennifer told him that the manhad gone.
(13:14):
Brad arrived at his apartment at7.30 and he and Lisa changed
clothes for dinner.
Brad said he was going to takeher to the best Thai restaurant
in Tucson.
Lisa asked him if he was seeingother women and he got angry
and denied it.
Brad kept getting on his phone.
Once they were seated at therestaurant, though, he told Lisa
that a friend from rehab washaving trouble with his car and
(13:34):
would join them as Brad neededto help him out.
A cabbie picked up a man outsidean all-nude strip club called
the Bunny Ranch.
Where he picked up a manoutside an all-nude strip club
called the bunny ranch.
Where where he picked up a manwho appeared to have just
crossed the street and was outof breath.
The man said he needed to go toa thai restaurant near the
corner of campbell avenue andgrant road, but he didn't know
(13:56):
the restaurant's name.
He asked to borrow the cabbie'sphone and got more specific
direction directions to therestaurant.
Brad saw the cab pull up to therestaurant and asked Lisa for
cash to pay for the cab.
Oh, I see you, he's so grossBrad right.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
You're on a date.
Also, you're the surgeon.
You're asking me for cash.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Right, but they're on a date and he's like to his
date.
Can you pay for this unwantedvisitors.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, cab, and also you just been sitting on your
phone the whole time after Iaccuse you of talking to other
women, and now we have this guyjoining us, okay red flags
abound, okay, so, brad, she didthat.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
um, brad brought the man into the restaurant and
introduced him to l.
This is Bruce, bruce, lisaGoldberg.
Bruce then ordered a beer,which Lisa thought was strange
because Brad had told her he washis friend from rehab.
So that didn't work.
Brad and Lisa had almostfinished their meals when Bruce
arrives, so Brad gave Bruce hisleftovers to fish through Gross
(15:05):
Classy.
Brad paid for the meals, atleast, and then they left in his
SUV.
Hey, how did those scrubs workout for you?
Brad asked Bruce.
Just great.
Bruce replied.
Then he explained to Lisa thathe wanted to go horseback riding
, but he didn't have anything towear.
So what do you wear when youwant to go horseback riding?
(15:25):
I mean, obviously, scrubs,obviously hopefully you have a
saddle and brad loaned him ascrubsuit.
Um.
So then the threesome went tovarious hotels and it took a
while before they found one thathad a vacancy.
And finally brad checked brBruce into a room before taking
(15:45):
Lisa back to his home.
The day after the murder,police located Brian's Lexus at
an apartment complex six milesaway from the office park.
Brian's blood was found on theinterior driver's side door and
it was concluded that he waskilled in the vehicle and then
dragged into the parking lot tomake it appear as if it was a
(16:06):
carjacking.
So back to the murder.
So police have discovered thathe's murdered.
They went to give Daphne, hiswife, the devastating news, but
they had trouble getting her toanswer the door.
They rang the doorbell multipletimes and they tried calling,
but they got a busy signal.
They tried the door handle,which was open, but a security
(16:29):
chain had stopped it.
So they got permission from lawenforcement to enter the
premises and entered it throughan unlocked garage door.
The car in the garage was notBrian's Lexus but was registered
to both Brian and Daphne.
Police entered the masterbedroom and saw a woman lying on
her side in bed.
They shone a flashlight andcalled her name.
(16:50):
Daphne immediately sat up andblurted is my husband okay?
Is he shot?
What?
When the investigator asked why, she would ask that she
explained well, because he'smissing.
He didn't come home, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I suppose this is before like cell phone era, so
we have to remember that too butis that your first thought when
your husband doesn't come home?
Well, I mean, that wouldn't bethe first thought about mine,
but I wouldn't have guessed thatfor brian either, that she'd be
worried that he's getting shotyeah.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Daphne then asked permission to put pajama pants
on and asked investigators washe shot?
Even though nobody saidanything about why they were
there, her husband, hiscondition or his whereabouts,
she continued to ask aboutwhether he was shot throughout
the investigation.
Detectives asked why her phonesweren't working.
So yeah, remember, cell phonesweren't a thing, so the
(17:46):
landlines weren't working.
Daphne said they hadn't workedsince Monday.
The detective asked if thephone wasn't working because it
was off the hook, which they hadseen.
The phone was off the hook.
She explained that cordlessphones would turn one another
off and the kids would play withthem by pushing the buttons,
and they just didn't use them.
(18:06):
The detectives point blank askedDaphne because she wasn't able
to wake up and the phones wereoff the hook if she had anything
to do with her husband's death.
She explained that she tooksleeping pills and she was
disoriented and denied havinganything to do with her
husband's death.
Curiously though, I shouldmention, the investigators saw
the living will and trustpaperwork, um, on her bedside
(18:32):
table.
So they asked her about it.
I mean his will and paperworkwhich is sitting on her bedside
table while she was sleeping.
Uh, they asked her how muchlife insurance was was on brian
and she said she didn't know butshe guessed it was about 500
000 or a million dollars.
I mean, you know one or theother oh yeah so similar.
(18:57):
When they asked her if there wasa life insurance policy on her
on herself she said no, and whenthey talked about it, she said
they had talked about it andthat she told brian that, well,
I just stay at home lookingafter our children, so it wasn't
worth it.
Eventually, though, daphne wastaken off the suspect list.
Her strange responses werechalked up to her being
(19:20):
medicated and in shock.
Next we're going to learn aboutthe investigation, the trial,
the verdict and updates on thestatus of the people convicted
of the crime, but first it'stime for our chart note segment.
Welcome to chart note segment,where we learn about what's
happening in medicine andhealthcare.
(19:40):
Okay, so I came across anarticle that shocked me this
week.
I had no idea that this waseven a thing, and it happened in
2003, so I'm a little bitbehind the times, but according
to this medscape article, thestate medical board of ohio
revoked the license of a plasticsurgeon after she live streamed
surgical procedures on tiktok,potentially endangering patients
(20:01):
.
Her name name is CatherineRoxanne Groh MD.
She was a plastic surgeon whopracticed in the wealthy
Columbus suburb of Powell, ohio.
Among other misconductaccusations, the board stated
that quote during some videoslive streams.
You engage in dialogue torespond to viewers' online
(20:23):
questions, while the surgicalprocedure remains actively
ongoing.
End quote.
One patient needed emergencytreatment following liposuction
and was diagnosed with aperforated bowel and severe
bacterial infection.
Oh my god sorry just by lico'sliposuction being a blind
(20:43):
surgery that requires awarenessof the tip of the cannula to
avoid injury, your attention tothe camera meant at those
moments you were not looking atthe patient or palpating the
location of the tip of thecannula.
The medical board said Grau,known as Dr Roxy, has a popular
TikTok account, which is now setto private, with 841,600
(21:04):
followers and 14.6 million likes.
She has another 123,000followers on her Instagram
account, which is also nowprivate.
The dispatch reported thatgrowl had previously been warned
to protect patient privacy onsocial media, so it wasn't that
she just was going into it blind, like she was warned.
(21:26):
According to Columbus TVstation WSYX, she said in a
TikTok video we show oursurgeries every single day on
Snapchat.
Patients get to decide if theywant to be a part of it and if
you do, you can watch your ownsurgery.
The TV station quoted formerpatients who described surgical
complications, and one said Iwent to her because I thought
(21:48):
from all of her social mediathat she uplifted women, that
she helped women empowerthemselves, but she didn't about
social media best practices andhas 430,000 followers on
Instagram.
Said in an interview that manysurgeons have been reprimanded
by state medical boards forbeing distracted by social media
(22:10):
during procedures.
Quote.
It's best not to do livestreaming unless it's an
educational event to demonstratetechniques and technology with
full informed consent of thepatient.
It should be a very wellrehearsed event for education.
End quote.
He said I mean I just have totake a breath here, can you?
(22:32):
I mean you know there's thosetiktok videos where the guys in
the restaurant are doing theeggs and the omelets and you
know the camera's set up by thefry station and it's like super
cute.
You can see like oh my god,look at those hash browns look
amazing and everybody'scoordinated and working together
.
Can you imagine a surgery?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
No, my, my jaw went to the floor again.
I was like, wait, what I waslike how does?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
first of all, yeah, I can't imagine getting past
patient privacy, but also like,absolutely you're distracted
well, yeah, the specificallywith the live streaming and
answering questions, like,concentrate on what you're doing
, like even if you stop whatyou're doing to answer a
question and you're not activelyperforating a bowel while
(23:17):
you're doing to answer aquestion and you're not actively
perforating a bowel whileyou're answering a question,
let's assume that you stop yoursurgery and you turn around to
answer a question.
How is that fair Now thatpatient's under anesthesia for
longer, potentially more fluidor blood loss like I don't
understand how this is ever okay, ever.
I found it shocking and this islike two-year-old news, but
(23:42):
anyway, hopefully some of ourlisteners will be shocked as
well and apparently nurses havealso been disciplined for
inappropriate posts on socialmedia.
Not too long ago, an Atlantahospital announced that four
nurses were no longer on the jobafter they appeared in a TikTok
video in scrubs and revealedtheir icks regarding obstetric
(24:03):
care.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, I did see, though I saw those videos.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
That's my worst nightmare.
Can you imagine You're sovulnerable and like how, how
dare you, how, how dare you?
Uh, okay.
So the University of Michiganplastic surgeon, christian
Verkler, who studied socialmedia guidelines for surgeons,
said in an interview thatplastic surgery content on
(24:30):
TikTok has blown up in recentyears.
Five years or so ago, it wasSnapchat where I saw a lot of
inappropriate things posted bysurgeons.
Verkler told Medscape that maystill be happening on Snapchat,
but I actually don't ever usethat platform anymore.
So, okay, all right, dude, okaySnapchat's old news.
Well, thank God, because I neverfigured out how to use it in
(24:51):
the first place.
But Verkler cautionedcolleagues to consider their
motivations for live streamingsurgery and to think about
whether they can fully focus onthe patient.
There's so many potentialdistractions in the OR.
We get pages, phone calls,nurses asking questions,
anesthesiologists trying to talkto us.
Social media is just one morething competing for the
surgeon's attention.
(25:12):
He said Every surgeon shouldstrive to eliminate unnecessary
or unavoidable distractions.
So the question becomes who isbest being served by me focusing
my attention on recording thisoperation on someone's phone so
that we can post it on socialmedia?
Is it the patient?
Verkler added there are many,many plastic surgeons using
(25:33):
social media as a powerfulplatform to build their brands,
connect with patients andeducate the public about what
they do.
I believe that most are doingthis in a way that's respectful
of the patients and doesn'texploit them for the surgeon's
benefit.
But unfortunately, he concluded, there are some who do see
patients as merely instrumentsby which they can achieve fame,
notoriety and wealth.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh, I mean, I agree with that.
I feel like most of the onesI've seen are not leaking
patient information.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It's not a privacy issue.
I've not come across a live ofsomeone doing surgery, but I
guess maybe my for you page is alittle different.
Mine's usually Taylor Swiftvideos.
Yeah, I just didn't even knowthat would be a possibility with
HIPAA and everything else.
So, okay, eye-opening.
Speaking of eyes, let's go backto our ophthalmology murderer
story.
Nice segue, did you like that?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I did Look at what you did there I saw it All right
.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So the investigation.
I don't know why it took solong, but it took the medical
examiner six hours to get to thescene of the murder.
So it took them six hours toget there, examine the area and
then transport the body for anautopsy.
Luckily this occurred beforethe offices opened in the
morning, but the fire departmentwas busy washing the blood off
(27:01):
the pavement when the employeesarrived.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Happy Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
That's just awful.
Brian's staff already knew thathe was murdered because police
had to contact all of them totry and get the access code to
enter the building at 2 in themorning because detectives
wanted to investigate the officefor potential clues.
That night Tucson policeofficer DE Martinez was
patrolling a neighborhood in theMidtown area and he came across
(27:30):
Brian's missing Lexus.
A bolo had gone out withvehicle description and the
license plate number.
So Martinez called the PimaCounty Sheriff's Department, who
dispatched unmarked units tosurveil the car in case the
murderer came back to it.
But nobody came.
So the next morning they calledup the surveillance and
searched the car.
They found that the key wasstill in the ignition and there
(27:53):
was blood on the driver's sideof the car and inside the Lexus
as well.
They could also see a cellphone.
In plain view Whoever killedBrian had done it while he'd
been getting into his car andthen dragged him out of the car
and onto the pavement.
They then drove Brian's car toan apartment complex and ditched
it.
Police questioned residents ofthe apartment complex where the
(28:14):
car was located and they didn'tcome up with anything helpful,
except one woman who lived nextto the complex who said she'd
seen the Lexus before and thatthe driver was a man in his 50s
with gray hair, mustache andglasses.
Meanwhile, brad calls LisaGoldberg to tell her Brian's
been murdered.
Lisa was shocked and laterremarked how calm and
(28:35):
matter-of-fact Brad sounded whenhe gave her the news.
Oh my god, what happened?
She asked he was killed.
Brad said on Tuesday night.
Remember Tuesday?
That was the night we went outto dinner at Karuna's.
No, no, it can't be.
She exclaimed, bursting intotears.
Brad, everything you've saidabout Brian, brad, brad, did you
have anything to do withBrian's death, lisa?
(28:58):
Brad said calmly I have nothingto gain from Brian's death and
remember, you're my alibi.
Okay.
Lisa hung up the phone on Bradand refused to answer his calls,
although he kept calling andleaving her messages.
That night she mustered enoughcourage to call the Pima County
Sheriff's Department.
She told the officer, sergeantFaust, that she was worried Brad
(29:21):
might have had Brian killed.
She told Faust all about theirstrange date and that creepy guy
, bruce.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
She described Bruce as Italian in his 40s and having
what she described as a fake.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
New York accent, new York, new York baby and a fake
New York accent.
He told me he was from themidwest.
Lisa said I didn't trust himand I don't think he was using
his real name.
Lisa told the officer about thenumber of the hotels that
they'd visited that night to tryand find a room for bruce.
So investigators followed up onthat and investigated hotels in
the area, getting lists ofoccupants who checked in that
(29:59):
night.
And bingo, bruce Bigger's namewas on the registration list for
the residence and, havingchecked in at 10 52 pm on
October 5th, the manager alsogave detectives a copy of the
receipt for the hotel room and alist of phone calls made from
the room.
Police interviewed a staffmember on duty the night bruce
(30:22):
checked in.
She said he checked into hisroom and came out 10 minutes
later asking where to get food.
She pointed to the snack bar inthe lobby oh, brad scraps
weren't enough.
Huh, bruce just licking hisplate clean wasn't good enough.
I get it.
I get it, dude, uh.
So she pointed to the snack barand, uh, he asked her if she
(30:43):
wanted anything, because I canpay for it he said big stud.
There were many bags.
Yeah, she said he bought aboatload of food and was very
chatty with her.
I'm having a bad day, he saidto her and the other hotel staff
.
My rental car caught on fire.
I'm trying to do like a badmovie.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
My rental car caught on fire.
Do you have any water?
He then got a call for his roomfrom a woman and he went to his
room.
A while later he again pitchedup at the front desk with a
woman that staff described aswhite, 5'8" and dark blonde hair
.
Actually, can I just be honestwith everybody?
They didn't say dark blondehair, they said dirty blonde.
(31:25):
And I just hate that, can wenot?
I just hate that description.
Okay, anyway, someone withdirty blonde hair is objecting
as a know uh, as as a holder ofdirty blonde hair.
Anyway, the employee said thatbruce had creeped her out and
that she had asked security hangout with her whenever he was
(31:47):
around.
I mean, there was some redflags there.
So that night bruce visited twofriends of his, chris corley
and chris carney, at theirapartment.
He flashed a large wad of cashand said he wanted a rental car
to go to Las Vegas and party.
Where'd you get so much money?
Chris asked Ah, you know, I gotconnections to the mafia.
(32:08):
Bruce posted my uncle.
He owns this high classrestaurant here.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I'm getting more and more New york.
Um meanwhile, lisa goldbergcontacted investigators because
she was concerned that a blacksuv was following her.
Investigators told the state,told her to stay at a friend's
house and contact them.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Uh, when she arrived, safely um quick shout out to
lisa for calling the police inthe first place.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Shout out, lisa yeah, girl, you got to make sure
you're safe.
Um, red flags need to beattended to, so good for her.
Uh, two nights after the murder, the moida lord is finally
sorry I have to do that finallyhad enough battling her
conscience and arguing with bradwho kept calling her about
(32:59):
whether or not she was.
He was involved in the murderand lord has called the public
information officer for pimacounty sheriff's department.
The woman's name was donbarkman.
Lord has trusted her becausethey worked together in the past
and lord has asked don to meether in person and when they met
up she told her everything sheknew.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Spill them beans girl .
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Go girl.
On October 15th DetectiveAnderson was assigned to talk to
Chris Corley and Chris Carneyto trace Bruce Bigger's step.
Following the murder, andersonwas told Bigger had come to
their apartment with a lot ofmoney and wanted to party in
Vegas, but didn't havetransportation.
Eventually Bruce took off witha mutual friend, teresa Morales.
The Volvo was later found tobelong to someone else.
(33:43):
Police went to the area whereTeresa was said to be living and
found her lying on a dirt roadwith the Volvo stuck nearby,
having unsuccessfully cleared awater main.
I know she got up when she sawthe patrol cars and police found
Bruce Bigger in the vehicle.
Both of them were taken intocustody.
Police noticed a cut underBruce's left eye and asked him
(34:06):
what happened.
Bruce said Teresa was drinking,got a little crazy.
Of course always the girl'sfault.
He declined to press charges.
Meanwhile Teresa had a weltbelow her right eye and scrapes
about two to three inches longacross her left shoulder.
But she also declined to presscharges With a suspected hitman
(34:27):
in custody.
The police focused on themastermind.
They showed up at Brad's homeand surrounded it.
He surrendered without incidentbut he made sure to let the
deputy know that he recently hadshoulder surgery, so his
shoulder was sore so the deputyused two interlocking handcuffs
to restrain him no, brad, he'sbeen through a lot I know
(34:49):
shameys.
Uh, before the patrol carcarrying brad to the sheriff's
headquarters left the complex,the arresting sheriff made sure
that the daily newspapers andall three tv news rooms were
notified that the man suspectedof ordering brian's death was in
custody and that anyone wantingto photograph him should be
aware.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
It's like the um, uh, like pre-tmz or yeah, is that
what it is, tmz?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Absolutely a TMZ move .
Every local news outlet thencaught Brad Schwartz in his perp
walk.
I mean, he was led into a smallinterrogation room in the
sheriff's office where hestarted whinging on about how he
wanted his cuffs taken offbecause his scrub shirt was on
(35:37):
backwards.
They didn't search him, uh.
So I mean I assume they didn'tsearch him because he started
calling lordis whenever um theinvestigators would leave the
room and he'd start.
He was just begging her to behis lawyer.
I mean, poor lordis, she wasterrified.
She didn't want him to find outthat she went to the police
(35:58):
because, like I, I mean thiskind of murder.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I can't be your lawyer.
I went to the police, friend, Iknow Conflict of interest.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Exactly.
By the way, you're an arse andthere's no way I'm going to
represent you.
So she was nicer about it.
She told him that under nocircumstances would she
represent him, but that didn'tstop him from calling her back
repeatedly, harassing her andbegging her and trying to
manipulate her into helping him.
When the police discovered himon his phone, asked him what he
(36:27):
was doing, he said I'm justcalling my lawyer, okay, brad
didn't want to wait for that onephone call, I got my own phone
guy.
That's fine yeah, like just takethe phone away from him.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I was thinking like maybe they were being sneaky,
and like watching from thetwo-way mirror situation and
like we're going to let himthink that he's doing something
sneaky, but we're justeavesdropping.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I mean, I think they were just ducking out for donuts
, honestly.
But okay, maybe, but maybe.
Anyway, brad's bail was set ata million dollars, all right, so
Brad ended up retaining alawyer, mike Picoretta, who had
represented Brad in federalcourt for his drug charges.
Picoretta attempted to move thetrial to a different county
(37:13):
based on all the media attentionin the area, but the judge
refused.
Out of 450 prospective jurors,379, or 84% of them, had read
about or viewed somethingrelated to this case.
So when the jury was finallywhittled down to 29 people, 24
of those people, or 83%, knewabout the case, including the
(37:35):
type of weapon used, detailsaboutis's involvement with brad
and brad's previous uh criminalactivities and trial outcomes.
Bruce and brad were scheduledto be tried jointly, but bruce's
defense attorney, jill thorpe,announced that bruce's defense
was that brad killed brian.
So bruce needed to have his owntrial and it was.
(37:55):
It was granted brad's courtappointed uh, brad had a court
appointed attorney, brick stortz, the third um.
His strategy was that the statecouldn't prove that bruce had
the time to kill brian and ifbruce didn't do it, then brad
was innocent.
Opening statements weredelivered on march 7th and
(38:16):
broadcast live on Court TV'swebsite on 48 Hours and Dateline
.
Pima County Deputy AttorneySylvia Lafferty told jurors that
Brad was an angry man obsessedwith revenge because of what
Brian had done to him Afterfailing to recruit people to
damage Brian's reputation.
She maintained that herecruited Lourdes' ex-husband,
(38:39):
danny Lopez, to kill Brian, butDanny died before he could do so
.
Evidence provided was a photoof Brian found in Danny's wallet
.
Brad turned to Bruce to carryout the plan instead.
Dna evidence from Brian'sstolen Lexus will link Bruce
Bigger to the crime.
Lafferty told jurors.
The morning after the murder,brad took $10,000 in cash from
(39:01):
his bank account.
Bruce Bigger, who was so brokehe couldn't afford the cab fare
and had to eat sloppy secondsfrom Brad's plate the night of
the murder, then took twofriends on a spending spree in
Vegas.
Stortz countered that Brucedidn't commit the crime, so Brad
was innocent.
Bruce would have had to stabBrian 15 times, find the keys to
(39:24):
take the Lexus, dispose of hisbloodstained clothes, drive the
Lexus to the apartment complexsix miles away, walk to a
restaurant, use the phone all inthe time span of 16 to 19
minutes.
Stortz said that the jury wouldhear testimony from a medical
examiner that the time of deathwas actually closer to the time
when Brian's body was actuallydiscovered, which would
(39:44):
eliminate Brad and Bruce assuspects, since they had an
alibi.
They were both with LisaGoldberg at that time.
At dinner Stortz explained thatBrad's practice was doing well
at the time of Brian's death,making about $250,000.
Why then would he wait untilhis success was on the rise and
everything was going back intoplace for him to go out now and
(40:05):
act on this man that he hated,to find someone to kill him?
Stortz asked Witness testimonyincluded Dr Jason Lee, who
testified that he told thedetective in December that the
man he saw in the scrubs at themedical complex on the night of
the murder was not Brad or Bruce.
Jennifer Dainty, the conveniencestore cashier, testified about
a man in scrubs who came intoher store on October 5th.
(40:28):
Lafferty showed Dainty a lightblue scrub top taken from Brad's
apartment and Dainty said itlooked similar to the top that
the man wore in the store thatnight.
She said she picked Bruce'sphoto out of a lineup, but other
witnesses also saw a man inscrubs at the store who said
they didn't recognize Bruce'sphoto.
The cab driver testified thathe picked up a man in his cab
(40:49):
that night to drive him from theBunny Ranch to the Thai
restaurant.
But he also couldn't identifyBruce Bigger as the man in the
cab.
Lisa Goldberg struck animmunity deal with prosecutors
in exchange for her testimonyand she testified against him.
Lourdes' testimony was prettydamning.
She told the court Brad wasupset because Dr Stidham left
(41:09):
him when he needed him the most.
Brad told me he wanted DrStidham to die.
He said this fucking guy isgoing to die, end quote.
But Lourdes also said she nevertook his threat seriously.
He is a doctor.
He's been given a gift.
He's supposed to preserve life.
He took an oath to do that.
He's a very good father and hehas everything to live for.
He would never throw everythingaway because of anger.
(41:32):
No, I just had to chuckle quickat that.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
He's such a good father and while, like, I can't
say he's not, but you wanted tooffer up naked pictures of your
child, sir yeah, I can't getover that, right.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
uh, crime scene reconstructionist tim bright,
who was hired to do a study forthe defense, testified for the
state that he could make thetrip from Brian's medical
complex to the apartment complexwhere his car was found in 13
minutes.
Then there was a lot of backand forth about DNA evidence.
The core question was whether asmall amount of DNA found on a
console knob in Brian's Lexuswas Bruce's.
(42:11):
Curtis Reinhold, a DNA analystfor the Arizona Department of
Public Safety, testified thatone in 20 billion whites have
the same DNA type found on theknob.
The defense then called a DNAexpert hired by the state, robin
Cotton of Selmer Labs, totestify about the blood found in
Brian's Lexus.
She corroborated that the bloodwas mostly Brian's but said she
(42:34):
saw some DNA that was linked toDaphne Stidham and that Bruce
Biggers' DNA was excluded.
Then Brian Raxall was called tothe stand.
He was a noted DNA expert andsaid that the DNA was more
common than previously stated.
He said that one in 1,363 couldhave been a match, not one in
20 million.
(42:54):
I mean that's a huge difference.
Therefore, bruce could not beexcluded from contributing the
DNA.
Okay, so on april 20th 2006,lafferty and stortz delivered
their closing arguments.
Lafferty reminded jurors aboutthe women who said brad
(43:14):
threatened to have brian killedand the evidence that indicated
danny lopez had been hired tokill brian.
When brian was killed, brad wasdeeply in debt and when bruce
came into brad's life theyconspired to kill him.
Stortz said that the firstquestion that jurors should ask
themselves is whether the stateproved beyond a reasonable doubt
that Brian died between 7.26and 8.46 pm.
(43:34):
If the state hasn't proven thatto you beyond a reasonable
doubt, then Dr Schwartz is notguilty of either first-degree
murder or conspiracy to commitfirst-degree murder.
We can talk about a whole lotof things, but that's the real
issue right here.
If Dr Stidham wasn't killed inthat period of time roughly 19
minutes and 23 seconds by MrBigger, then this case is over.
(43:59):
The jury deliberated for fivedays before delivering a verdict
.
Guilty of conspiracy to commitfirst-degree murder, they were
deadlocked.
On the first-degree murdercharge, brad was sentenced to
life in prison with thepossibility of parole after 25
years.
After deliberating forapproximately 17 hours over four
days, the jury found BruceBigger guilty of conspiring to
(44:22):
kill Stidham and carrying outthe attack on the pediatric eye
surgeon.
The jury found Bigger guilty ofboth conspiracies to commit
first-degree murder andfirst-degree murder itself.
He was sentenced to life inprison without parole.
Updates on Bruce His attorneysare requesting a retrial because
(44:44):
new technology can conduct adeeper dive into DNA analysis
now.
So the tiny amount of DNA thatprosecuted prosecutors said
showed bigger's presence at thecrime scene is crucial to the
case.
It's the only evidence thatputs Bruce bigger at the scene,
said David Eukener.
Appellate appellate probablyprobably appellate and not
(45:07):
appellate appellate unitsupervisor and resource council
of the Pima County PublicDefender's Office.
Now we see the evidence is justas exclusionary as it is
inclusionary, he said at theconclusion of a three-day
hearing that ended on April 12thof 2024.
There's your reasonable doubtright there.
There's not one shred ofphysical evidence that the
(45:29):
underlying data has changedsince 2007, said Thomas
McDermott of the Pima CountyAttorney's Office, which
prosecuted the case.
So the defense must prove thatevidence discovered after
Bigger's trial could probablychange the verdict.
Mcdermott said At the time ofthe trials one speck of DNA
evidence on the console known asLX39, contained DNA other than
(45:51):
Stidham's.
While it wasn't clear cut,experts for the state contended
it was similar enough toBigger's DNA to claim it was
probably his.
Eukener said Bigger's trialattorneys weren't wrong to
present the evidence that theydid in countering the state's
evidence, but the witnesses theyused, who were top experts in
the field, didn't know whatexperts know now.
What we've been talking aboutin this hearing over three days
(46:14):
is nothing like what was talkedabout 17 years ago during Mr
Bigger's trial, eupner said.
At the time of the trials, leadprosecutor Sylvia Lafferty
asked the Arizona Department ofPublic Safety analysts to lower
the threshold for detecting DNA,which then showed two people
contributed to the DNA in LX39.
(46:34):
Everything below the thresholdwas not considered.
But in 2014, seven years afterBigger's trial, software that
better defines DNA at lowerthresholds was developed.
With newer software, the DNA inLX39 shows that another person
was a contributor, which makesthe chances of one of the other
contributors much less likely tobe bigger.
(46:55):
The third contributor isthought to be from Daphne
Stidham, stidham's widow.
The defense isn't saying thatDaphne had anything to do with
her husband's murder, but as hiswife, it would be natural for
her DNA to be in his car.
Mcdermott said Eukner shouldhave filed his appeal 10 years
ago when the software wasdeveloped.
(47:16):
Yeah right, good point, butEukner said knowledge of the
software development wasn't madepublic until 2018.
He learned about it througharticles, including one written
by Dr Michael Kobel, whotestified for the state during
the three-day hearing.
Euchner and co-counsel TimothyEckstein filed a request for a
(47:47):
new hearing, but the COVID-19pandemic slowed the request down
and their progress is unknownas of my research this week.
Okay, so to update on BradSchwartz.
On September 27th 2024,schwartz left a creative writing
class.
Isn't that nice he's doingcreative writing.
He left a creative writingclass in the Rincon unit of the
Arizona State Prison Complex inTucson and he was attacked on
his way to the bathroom, saidhis criminal defense attorney
(48:14):
stortz.
He spent a few days in theintensive care unit and
underwent two plastic surgeriesonce the swelling subsided the
form, I mean it must have beenserious.
The former doctor was releasedfrom the hospital after 10 days
and is now housed in a Florenceprison unit.
And in the irony, to end allironies, his if you look up a
picture of Brad Schwartz hisright eyelid is drooping over
(48:39):
his eye and he has visionproblems in that eye.
So he's going to have toundergo some more surgery.
He needs a blast he needshimself to.
Yeah, apparently he's beenattacked four times.
In two of the incidences it wasthe same inmate.
He sustained neck and shoulderinjuries and minor injuries in
(49:02):
September.
Prison officials have beenasked to place him in protective
custody.
I think he's a target not onlybecause he was a doctor, but
because of the case and the factthat inmates probably assume he
comes from a family of means,said stortz.
His lawyer, brian, has alawsuit pending which seats
seeks compensatory damages forpain and suffering and medical
(49:23):
expenses.
And that is a wrap.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Oh wow, great job on all of your research.
Well thank you.
I uh Wow, brad, do you thinkthat Bruce is gonna?
I mean that that's gonna goanywhere?
Because, so what I was thinkingis yes, I mean that that's
(49:50):
going to go anywhere, because.
So what I was thinking is yes,the DNA testing has come a long
way, got it Good.
It should it needed to.
But like you were a suspect fora reason, my dude, I mean, you
know what I mean.
Yeah, I wouldn't have beenpicked off the street and
someone was like you must havehad something to do with this
and you fall under this umbrella, so it must have been you like
(50:13):
yeah, I mean, I think there'senough um sort of evidence and
there's the motive, there's the,the likelihood, the, the.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
I don't know if it does go back to court, they're
going to have to prove um beyonda reasonable doubt, um, but
like, what are the odds?
You're looking someone's I knowthis is circumstantial evidence
, but like you're on the threadsof your genes and you're
licking someone's leftover plateand then the next day you've
got a wad of cash and you'retaking people to after the
(50:50):
murder, yeah, and you'rereasoning for all this all the
sudden having all this moneybecause your friends know you
don't have money and you're like, oh I got ties to the mafia.
My uncle, da da da, it's like no, yeah, I mean they were.
They were filmed together, um,filmed there.
There is video footage of thetwo of them entering multiple
(51:10):
hotels.
They had dinner together.
There were multiple witnessesthat they were obviously a thing
.
So here's this patient ofBrad's Sorry, this patient of
Brad's.
And I mean, what reason?
What reason do they have toaffiliate with one another?
Was that that Brad used people?
Speaker 2 (51:32):
And Brad was asking everyone over again hey, you
know anyone that can dosomething for me?
So who's to say he didn't startasking his patients that?
Speaker 1 (51:41):
So there's the motive , there's the the suspicious
like.
I mean, bruce was not above, uh, assaulting people or or, you
know, getting paid for criminalactivity, as his record shows.
So I just think it would behard.
Um, I don't even know if theyneed that spot of blood in the
(52:02):
car.
They have um video footage ofthe two of them together on the
evening, evidence of him havingall of a sudden a bunch of money
the next day.
I don't know, I don't know whatit would take.
What would you think if youwere on the jury and there
wasn't a blood spot?
Would you still think Bruce wasproven guilty beyond a
(52:25):
reasonable doubt?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
I think so, but I'm like, am I?
Biased just because we justlistened to this whole story.
Yeah, Because if it's not youwho else is it?
Yeah, yeah.
I guess the only person thatcan probably really tell us is
Brad.
And do we think he's going tobe noble?
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
No, probably not.
I mean, maybe Brad did it orhis wife had some pretty sketchy
reactions to the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, that was really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
I think that was a red herring, but it was really
weird that she wouldn't answerthe door.
Yeah, I don't know.
It'll be interesting to see.
Um, we'll give you updates ifanything you know in the future,
if anything comes out of thisto prove us wrong.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
But yeah, yeah, well, great job, that's fascinating.
Yeah, thank you so, amanda, yes.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
What can our listeners expect to hear next?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
week next week, we are going to be uncovering a
juicy story of one of thebiggest fraudsters in us history
oh, my goodness, I can't waitto hear.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Will Will you give us a hint?
Uh, no, okay, we just have tostay tuned, uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
stay tuned, Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Um, I was kind of like, oh, I don't know, do I
want to do fraud?
Is that boring?
And then I started researchingand I was like, oh my gosh, so
it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
It's a good one.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yes, all right.
So, friends, dear friends,don't miss a beat.
Subscribe or follow Doctoringthe Truth wherever you enjoy
your podcasts for stories thatshock, intrigue and educate.
Trust, after all, is a delicatething.
We'd love to hear more from you.
Send us a text on our websiteat
(54:28):
doctoringthetruthbuzzsproutcom.
Email us your story ideas ondoctoringthetruth at gmailcom.
Find and follow us on Instagramat doctoringthetruth.
We'll be back next week.
(54:49):
Stay safe and stay tuned.
Bye, bye, did it hit it?
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