April 22, 2024 • 14 mins
Dog parks provide a chance for us to meet strangers we might not otherwise. Through our shared love for our dogs and the inherent trust of meeting another dog parent, we can foster new relationships with those around us. These interactions can allow us to widen our perspectives, increase our sense of empathy for others, and come together in greater unity.
In this episode, we hear from guest experts Megan Mueller PhD, Whitney Harris, and Dr. Sharon Holland. This series is narrated by Jenna Blum, author and dog mom.
Dog Parkology is a show about the importance of dog parks as public space. The series is produced by As It Should Be Productions, the creators of the Dog Save The People and Dog Walk Meditation podcasts.
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Dog Walk Meditation on Apple Podcasts
Dog Walk Meditation on Spotify
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Dog Parkology, a show thatlooks at the concept of dog parks
through our relationship with dogs,with each other, and with the land.
In our previous episode, we exploredhow dog parks offer opportunities for
a closer understanding Standing andpersonal connection with your dog.
(00:29):
Figure out what forms of enrichmentthey need and actively play together.
However, there's still room atthe dog park for you to play
to connect with strangers.
When you know that somebody has apet or a dog, that is automatically
something that resonates with us as.
(00:50):
being similar to our own interest.
This is Megan Mueller, anAssociate Professor of Human Animal
Interaction at Tufts University.
So there's an implied trust therebecause you're saying, I understand
this person's like me, this personhas a dog, they care about their dog.
And so I'm attributing certaincharacteristics to that, perhaps
(01:12):
empathy or trust or responsibilityfor caring for the dog.
In addition to an intuitivesense of trust, the topic of your
dogs can provide an icebreaker.
When you're meeting somebody new whoyou don't know, who's a stranger, where
do you start with that interaction?
The nature of talking with someone elseabout your dogs is immediately personal
(01:33):
because your dog means a lot to youand their dog means a lot to them.
And so that can be a really nice, safeplace to start a conversation with someone
that can then lead off into other areas.
Todd Parks can offer a certain levity.
Interactions with somebody in a dog parkdon't have a lot of the same baggage that
other types of interactions might have.
(01:56):
For example, maybe you're feeling pressureat work to make a particular impression
on somebody or even in other socialsituations, the stakes might seem higher.
Whereas this is a lower stakesopportunity where there's a social
facilitator, a topic to talk aboutaround your shared interest in dogs.
So it might just feel a little bit easier.
(02:18):
Dog parks are social gathering spotsoutside of home and work that can provide
a space for people to come together.
This type of third place also allowsus to let our guard down in a way that
we might not normally with strangers.
As humans, we are social beings.
We need social interactionwith other people.
(02:38):
And we know that there's increasedpolarization and challenges
around connecting in person.
A lot of connections now are happening inthe digital space, especially COVID era.
And so this is an increasingly uniqueexposure to a different group of
people that you wouldn't normallyhave the opportunity to connect with.
(03:01):
Opening up to new perspectivesis always a good thing.
Learning about different perspectivesand different ways of being in the
world helps us expand our view andour empathy of the world more broadly.
This brings us to the themeof our episode, Common Ground.
(03:23):
Most of us know the concept, theidea that even people who might
have different views or might comefrom different life experiences
can find something they agree on.
Having that common ground canopen up lines of communication
and allow for active listening.
It can be the building blockof a foundation of openness,
empathy, and ultimately trust.
(03:46):
In this case, of course, the commonground we share is the love of our dogs.
There's an opportunity at dog parksto connect no matter where you go.
We had been living in an apartmentin Brooklyn and we timed getting my
dog Finley with the move to Texas.
(04:06):
This is Whitney Harris, a freelancewriter who's published articles for
many dog magazines and websites.
Dallas seems like a muchmore dog friendly place.
There are dog parks everywhere.
I was freelance writing.
So I was at home a lot, but shereally forced us to get out, to meet
people, to be social, to be active.
(04:28):
Once out there at the dog park, Whitneyfound it to be a great environment to
have conversations with other locals.
It's so easy and natural to strikeup a conversation when your dog is
playing with someone else's dog.
For the most part, everyone is chatty.
Everyone wants to knowyour dog's origin story.
There are infinite questions toask someone about their dog, and
(04:50):
that always leads to other things.
It's almost like a litmus test.
Like, owning a dog is, in someways, a selfless thing to do,
because they require so much of us,so much time, so much caregiving.
So, that, to me, indicates that they'regood people, that they're trustworthy,
and we would watch each other's dogs.
Soon, Whitney found herselfmaking valuable connections with
(05:12):
people she met at the dog park,including a woman named Sage.
When I first met Sage, she seemed quiet.
I couldn't get a good read onher, but she was the one who asked
for my number and said, Our dogsplay great, let's get together.
Sage was pregnant at one point whenwe were in Dallas and had all of
(05:32):
these appointments to go to, so Iwould take her dog Freddy for her.
Once I got to know her, I realized shehad just such a fascinating life story.
She was a chef and workedin a lot of kitchens.
She told me the stories ofevery single tattoo on her body.
She really opened herself up to me andthen I opened myself up to her and we
talked about struggling to get pregnantand I feel like I learned a lot from her.
(05:57):
Her life experience was justcompletely different than mine.
It was just wonderful gettingto know someone who I wouldn't
otherwise ever cross paths with.
When Whitney and her husband movedback to New York from Dallas,
they went to Westchester County,just north of New York City.
And once again, the dog parkexperience became important.
(06:18):
Looking into neighborhoods up here inWestchester, one of the stops on our
list was always the local dog park.
We knew no one here inour town of Sleepy Hollow.
We didn't know a single person.
Going to the dog park with Finley, Iwas heavily pregnant and everyone just,
you know, Had a million questions forme and a million pieces of advice.
(06:38):
Oh, you're new here.
This is the best restaurant.
This is what you can do on the weekends.
These are the farmer's markethours and you're having a baby.
This is what the schools are like.
They just want to share.
And then, you know, you pay it forward.
Now that I've been here eight years,three kids later and Finley's getting
older, I can tell anyone I meet atthe dog park what my advice is for
them, dog related and otherwise.
(07:00):
No matter where she went, or no matterwhere she and her husband might go
in the future, Whitney has foundthat dog parks can be an invaluable
way to connect in a new community.
It's also important to remember noteveryone feels the same type of welcome
or instant comfort in these spaces.
(07:22):
I was lucky in that whenI was in my dog park era.
When I had Samar, I was inthe Bay Area, which is an area
with a lot of folks of color.
This is Sharon Holland, a distinguishedprofessor in the Department of
American Studies at the Universityof North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
And a neighborhood I certainly livedin at the edge of East Palo Alto was
(07:45):
definitely considered a neighborhoodof African descended people.
A lot of times people would justtake an old abandoned place.
Clean it up a little bit, andif it has a still usable fence,
folks would run their dogs there.
Some parks are good, but other parksIf I came, I wouldn't want to be
the only person of color in a park.
People don't necessarily associateblack bodies with positive
(08:07):
relationships with non human animals.
Or they assume that many people ofAfrican descent do not want or do
not cherish their relationships withanimals, which is not a historical truth.
To illustrate some of the history ofthe powerful relationships between Black
people and their animals, Sharon wrote abook in 2023 entitled An Other, A Black
(08:30):
Feminist Consideration of Animal Life.
People of African descent have a reallyincredible legacy with non human animals.
I can think of no other group who havebeen more consequential to animal life
than black equestrians, black trainers,the black enslaved, who basically built
the sport of racing and equine care.
(08:53):
And I am a rider.
I have a lovely horse named Annie.
I feel like actually by riding,I'm connecting to my heritage
as a African descended person.
And I think people are seeing thatmore and more now that we're not
separate from the animal world.
We've helped contour humanbeings relationship to it.
As a professor of American Studies,Sharon has been teaching an animal
(09:16):
course for almost a decade now.
In addition to her horse, dogs havealways been important to Sharon.
Now, Sharon resides in North Carolina,with more open land for her dogs to run.
And while some people like their privacy,everyone always helps one another
keep an eye out for each other's dogs.
A friend of mine, Artemis, who's amazingwith dogs, had the sweetest pit bulls.
(09:39):
Winnie, my dog, loved the pittiesand would jump over their backs
and play with them and run around.
I saw our dogs were playing together.
They were down by my house.
And I'm like, what is your daddy's name?
I don't even have his number.
And so, walked him up theroad, I knew where Aramis lived
and he said, Oh, thank you.
(09:59):
And I said, I don't know your name.
I don't have your number.
And he goes, I don't know yourname, but I knew his dogs.
And he comes on the land all the time.
It's like a big dog run.
And in the morning, my dogs,we go a little bit later up the
road and they're always sniffing.
I said, Oh, that's where Aramis dogs were.
During the pandemic, Sharon foundthat her neighbors came together
(10:19):
in a new way because of their dogs.
The most consistent dog parkI've had is with Aramis.
We used a little cul de saccircle right by the mailboxes
for the houses down my road.
There's about a mile around thiswhole property, all the way around.
It was an informal dog park.
A lot of folks during the pandemiccame down here and ran their dogs.
(10:40):
And folks from the trailerpark near my house came here
to let their dogs off leash.
The dog parks, they weren'tnecessarily shut down, but
a lot of people were afraid.
They weren't sure if COVID could be spreadfrom the dogs, from touching one another.
Our informal dog park was great.
Sometimes the neighbors would comeout and wave and sit and watch
the dogs just do their thing.
(11:00):
So I just love the sociality of dogs.
I've learned so much about sharing,about forgiveness, just the
way in which dogs work it out.
I wish human beings could learn this.
It's weird, like, even though there'sa lot of space between us, out here I
feel I have more intimate relationshipswith my neighbors than I have In other
places, I feel like I know everybody.
(11:22):
I do feel safer down here.
I'm very lucky.
While the grounds around Sharon'scommunity are not technically
a designated dog park, theystill accomplish the core idea.
Having a place for dogs to be off leashfor the humans to enjoy their time
with them, and to meet and connectwith human and canine neighbors.
(11:45):
Aside from being responsible aboutwhere you let your dog off leash.
These kinds of dog parkologymoments can happen anywhere.
Whether you go to your local dogpark or form your own, our canine
companions allow us to better get toknow and understand our neighbors,
no matter what distance between you.
New York Times opinion columnistFrank Bruni wrote a piece a
(12:09):
few years ago entitled DogsWill Fix Our Broken Democracy.
Bruni writes about how his dog,Regan, impacted his interactions
out and about in New York.
Something happens when Regandoes leave the apartment with me.
Something so rare these days that it'spractically revolutionary, Bruni says.
(12:30):
In Central Park, there's a wholevibrant society of those of us
with dogs, especially duringthe awfully showers before 9 a.
m.
and after 9 p.
m.
when I let Regan lead the way and thepeople I get to know are appendages of
the dogs she decides to wrestle with.
They're not chosen by some social mediaalgorithm, sorted by income level,
(12:51):
screened by political affiliation.
Bruni writes about seeing Americansbecoming more and more separated.
in the areas in which we live,where we take vacations, or
the schools children go to.
There's also the way technology filtersout people who might challenge us.
He writes, My interactions inCentral Park are partly about having
(13:13):
a dog, but just as much about whatthe dog encourages, even compels.
Spending time in public places that areopen to everyone, and well situated,
and appealing enough, To guarantee thatpeople from all walks of life cross paths.
(13:34):
Thank you for listening tothis episode of Dog Parkology.
I'm Jenna Blum, your narrator.
This show was created by As It Should BeProductions, the creators of Dog Save the
People and Dog Walk Meditation podcasts,with executive producer Scott Benaglio
and producer and editor Jack Sommer.
(13:56):
Be sure to check out the entireseason of Dog Parkology by following
the show on Apple Podcasts.
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can follow us on social media atDog Park, ology and Dog Save the People.
You can visit our website, dogpark ology.com to learn more
about the show and to buy customdesign merch like our T-shirts.
(14:19):
If you know of any great dog parks in yourarea or you've created your own dog park
moment, you can email us at dog park at.
We'd love to hear about your experience.
And if you've enjoyed listening to thisepisode, please share it with a friend.
Enjoy a trip to a dog park today,or wherever you go with your dog.
(14:41):
You appreciate nature, meet othersand make a better life together.
Welcome to Dog Parkology, a show thatlooks at the concept of dog parks
through our relationship with dogs,with each other, and with the land.
In our previous episode, we exploredhow dog parks offer opportunities for
a closer understanding Standing andpersonal connection with your dog.
(00:29):
Figure out what forms of enrichmentthey need and actively play together.
However, there's still room atthe dog park for you to play
to connect with strangers.
When you know that somebody has apet or a dog, that is automatically
something that resonates with us as.
(00:50):
being similar to our own interest.
This is Megan Mueller, anAssociate Professor of Human Animal
Interaction at Tufts University.
So there's an implied trust therebecause you're saying, I understand
this person's like me, this personhas a dog, they care about their dog.
And so I'm attributing certaincharacteristics to that, perhaps
(01:12):
empathy or trust or responsibilityfor caring for the dog.
In addition to an intuitivesense of trust, the topic of your
dogs can provide an icebreaker.
When you're meeting somebody new whoyou don't know, who's a stranger, where
do you start with that interaction?
The nature of talking with someone elseabout your dogs is immediately personal
(01:33):
because your dog means a lot to youand their dog means a lot to them.
And so that can be a really nice, safeplace to start a conversation with someone
that can then lead off into other areas.
Todd Parks can offer a certain levity.
Interactions with somebody in a dog parkdon't have a lot of the same baggage that
other types of interactions might have.
(01:56):
For example, maybe you're feeling pressureat work to make a particular impression
on somebody or even in other socialsituations, the stakes might seem higher.
Whereas this is a lower stakesopportunity where there's a social
facilitator, a topic to talk aboutaround your shared interest in dogs.
So it might just feel a little bit easier.
(02:18):
Dog parks are social gathering spotsoutside of home and work that can provide
a space for people to come together.
This type of third place also allowsus to let our guard down in a way that
we might not normally with strangers.
As humans, we are social beings.
We need social interactionwith other people.
(02:38):
And we know that there's increasedpolarization and challenges
around connecting in person.
A lot of connections now are happening inthe digital space, especially COVID era.
And so this is an increasingly uniqueexposure to a different group of
people that you wouldn't normallyhave the opportunity to connect with.
(03:01):
Opening up to new perspectivesis always a good thing.
Learning about different perspectivesand different ways of being in the
world helps us expand our view andour empathy of the world more broadly.
This brings us to the themeof our episode, Common Ground.
(03:23):
Most of us know the concept, theidea that even people who might
have different views or might comefrom different life experiences
can find something they agree on.
Having that common ground canopen up lines of communication
and allow for active listening.
It can be the building blockof a foundation of openness,
empathy, and ultimately trust.
(03:46):
In this case, of course, the commonground we share is the love of our dogs.
There's an opportunity at dog parksto connect no matter where you go.
We had been living in an apartmentin Brooklyn and we timed getting my
dog Finley with the move to Texas.
(04:06):
This is Whitney Harris, a freelancewriter who's published articles for
many dog magazines and websites.
Dallas seems like a muchmore dog friendly place.
There are dog parks everywhere.
I was freelance writing.
So I was at home a lot, but shereally forced us to get out, to meet
people, to be social, to be active.
(04:28):
Once out there at the dog park, Whitneyfound it to be a great environment to
have conversations with other locals.
It's so easy and natural to strikeup a conversation when your dog is
playing with someone else's dog.
For the most part, everyone is chatty.
Everyone wants to knowyour dog's origin story.
There are infinite questions toask someone about their dog, and
(04:50):
that always leads to other things.
It's almost like a litmus test.
Like, owning a dog is, in someways, a selfless thing to do,
because they require so much of us,so much time, so much caregiving.
So, that, to me, indicates that they'regood people, that they're trustworthy,
and we would watch each other's dogs.
Soon, Whitney found herselfmaking valuable connections with
(05:12):
people she met at the dog park,including a woman named Sage.
When I first met Sage, she seemed quiet.
I couldn't get a good read onher, but she was the one who asked
for my number and said, Our dogsplay great, let's get together.
Sage was pregnant at one point whenwe were in Dallas and had all of
(05:32):
these appointments to go to, so Iwould take her dog Freddy for her.
Once I got to know her, I realized shehad just such a fascinating life story.
She was a chef and workedin a lot of kitchens.
She told me the stories ofevery single tattoo on her body.
She really opened herself up to me andthen I opened myself up to her and we
talked about struggling to get pregnantand I feel like I learned a lot from her.
(05:57):
Her life experience was justcompletely different than mine.
It was just wonderful gettingto know someone who I wouldn't
otherwise ever cross paths with.
When Whitney and her husband movedback to New York from Dallas,
they went to Westchester County,just north of New York City.
And once again, the dog parkexperience became important.
(06:18):
Looking into neighborhoods up here inWestchester, one of the stops on our
list was always the local dog park.
We knew no one here inour town of Sleepy Hollow.
We didn't know a single person.
Going to the dog park with Finley, Iwas heavily pregnant and everyone just,
you know, Had a million questions forme and a million pieces of advice.
(06:38):
Oh, you're new here.
This is the best restaurant.
This is what you can do on the weekends.
These are the farmer's markethours and you're having a baby.
This is what the schools are like.
They just want to share.
And then, you know, you pay it forward.
Now that I've been here eight years,three kids later and Finley's getting
older, I can tell anyone I meet atthe dog park what my advice is for
them, dog related and otherwise.
(07:00):
No matter where she went, or no matterwhere she and her husband might go
in the future, Whitney has foundthat dog parks can be an invaluable
way to connect in a new community.
It's also important to remember noteveryone feels the same type of welcome
or instant comfort in these spaces.
(07:22):
I was lucky in that whenI was in my dog park era.
When I had Samar, I was inthe Bay Area, which is an area
with a lot of folks of color.
This is Sharon Holland, a distinguishedprofessor in the Department of
American Studies at the Universityof North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
And a neighborhood I certainly livedin at the edge of East Palo Alto was
(07:45):
definitely considered a neighborhoodof African descended people.
A lot of times people would justtake an old abandoned place.
Clean it up a little bit, andif it has a still usable fence,
folks would run their dogs there.
Some parks are good, but other parksIf I came, I wouldn't want to be
the only person of color in a park.
People don't necessarily associateblack bodies with positive
(08:07):
relationships with non human animals.
Or they assume that many people ofAfrican descent do not want or do
not cherish their relationships withanimals, which is not a historical truth.
To illustrate some of the history ofthe powerful relationships between Black
people and their animals, Sharon wrote abook in 2023 entitled An Other, A Black
(08:30):
Feminist Consideration of Animal Life.
People of African descent have a reallyincredible legacy with non human animals.
I can think of no other group who havebeen more consequential to animal life
than black equestrians, black trainers,the black enslaved, who basically built
the sport of racing and equine care.
(08:53):
And I am a rider.
I have a lovely horse named Annie.
I feel like actually by riding,I'm connecting to my heritage
as a African descended person.
And I think people are seeing thatmore and more now that we're not
separate from the animal world.
We've helped contour humanbeings relationship to it.
As a professor of American Studies,Sharon has been teaching an animal
(09:16):
course for almost a decade now.
In addition to her horse, dogs havealways been important to Sharon.
Now, Sharon resides in North Carolina,with more open land for her dogs to run.
And while some people like their privacy,everyone always helps one another
keep an eye out for each other's dogs.
A friend of mine, Artemis, who's amazingwith dogs, had the sweetest pit bulls.
(09:39):
Winnie, my dog, loved the pittiesand would jump over their backs
and play with them and run around.
I saw our dogs were playing together.
They were down by my house.
And I'm like, what is your daddy's name?
I don't even have his number.
And so, walked him up theroad, I knew where Aramis lived
and he said, Oh, thank you.
(09:59):
And I said, I don't know your name.
I don't have your number.
And he goes, I don't know yourname, but I knew his dogs.
And he comes on the land all the time.
It's like a big dog run.
And in the morning, my dogs,we go a little bit later up the
road and they're always sniffing.
I said, Oh, that's where Aramis dogs were.
During the pandemic, Sharon foundthat her neighbors came together
(10:19):
in a new way because of their dogs.
The most consistent dog parkI've had is with Aramis.
We used a little cul de saccircle right by the mailboxes
for the houses down my road.
There's about a mile around thiswhole property, all the way around.
It was an informal dog park.
A lot of folks during the pandemiccame down here and ran their dogs.
(10:40):
And folks from the trailerpark near my house came here
to let their dogs off leash.
The dog parks, they weren'tnecessarily shut down, but
a lot of people were afraid.
They weren't sure if COVID could be spreadfrom the dogs, from touching one another.
Our informal dog park was great.
Sometimes the neighbors would comeout and wave and sit and watch
the dogs just do their thing.
(11:00):
So I just love the sociality of dogs.
I've learned so much about sharing,about forgiveness, just the
way in which dogs work it out.
I wish human beings could learn this.
It's weird, like, even though there'sa lot of space between us, out here I
feel I have more intimate relationshipswith my neighbors than I have In other
places, I feel like I know everybody.
(11:22):
I do feel safer down here.
I'm very lucky.
While the grounds around Sharon'scommunity are not technically
a designated dog park, theystill accomplish the core idea.
Having a place for dogs to be off leashfor the humans to enjoy their time
with them, and to meet and connectwith human and canine neighbors.
(11:45):
Aside from being responsible aboutwhere you let your dog off leash.
These kinds of dog parkologymoments can happen anywhere.
Whether you go to your local dogpark or form your own, our canine
companions allow us to better get toknow and understand our neighbors,
no matter what distance between you.
New York Times opinion columnistFrank Bruni wrote a piece a
(12:09):
few years ago entitled DogsWill Fix Our Broken Democracy.
Bruni writes about how his dog,Regan, impacted his interactions
out and about in New York.
Something happens when Regandoes leave the apartment with me.
Something so rare these days that it'spractically revolutionary, Bruni says.
(12:30):
In Central Park, there's a wholevibrant society of those of us
with dogs, especially duringthe awfully showers before 9 a.
m.
and after 9 p.
m.
when I let Regan lead the way and thepeople I get to know are appendages of
the dogs she decides to wrestle with.
They're not chosen by some social mediaalgorithm, sorted by income level,
(12:51):
screened by political affiliation.
Bruni writes about seeing Americansbecoming more and more separated.
in the areas in which we live,where we take vacations, or
the schools children go to.
There's also the way technology filtersout people who might challenge us.
He writes, My interactions inCentral Park are partly about having
(13:13):
a dog, but just as much about whatthe dog encourages, even compels.
Spending time in public places that areopen to everyone, and well situated,
and appealing enough, To guarantee thatpeople from all walks of life cross paths.
(13:34):
Thank you for listening tothis episode of Dog Parkology.
I'm Jenna Blum, your narrator.
This show was created by As It Should BeProductions, the creators of Dog Save the
People and Dog Walk Meditation podcasts,with executive producer Scott Benaglio
and producer and editor Jack Sommer.
(13:56):
Be sure to check out the entireseason of Dog Parkology by following
the show on Apple Podcasts.
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can follow us on social media atDog Park, ology and Dog Save the People.
You can visit our website, dogpark ology.com to learn more
about the show and to buy customdesign merch like our T-shirts.
(14:19):
If you know of any great dog parks in yourarea or you've created your own dog park
moment, you can email us at dog park at.
We'd love to hear about your experience.
And if you've enjoyed listening to thisepisode, please share it with a friend.
Enjoy a trip to a dog park today,or wherever you go with your dog.
(14:41):
You appreciate nature, meet othersand make a better life together.
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