Divorce Math Made Clear

The financial decisions you make during a divorce can have long-lasting effects. In this episode, we talk with Ryan Finley CPA and Divorce CDFA, and valuation expert who works across the country. He explains practical steps to help you turn a confusing balance sheet into a plan you can follow. Ryan covers how to list your assets and debts, explains tax rules in simple terms, and shows how understanding the numbers can help you feel more confident about your choices.

We talk through real-life choices, like deciding whether to buy a home with cash or take out a mortgage while keeping a Roth IRA invested. Ryan explains how to think about current interest rates and plan for the future, and why a $100,000 IRA is not the same as $100,000 in cash after taxes and penalties. He shows how to look at different scenarios for cash flow, risk, and long-term growth, so you can find stability without giving up future opportunities. We also discuss prenuptial agreements, support waivers, and the risks of mixing separate property, such as how adding a spouse to a deed can change ownership and outcomes for good.

A lot of mistakes happen in the details of dividing assets. We explain QDROs and the expensive error of transferring too much into retirement accounts if one person plans to cash out. We also cover why it’s important to split investments by tax lots to avoid unfair capital gains. The answer is to use clear settlement language that tells custodians to divide each lot fairly. Ryan reminds us that divorce is a math problem with real-life consequences, and he offers a steady, practical approach to solving it.

If you are going through a divorce or helping someone who is, this episode will help you understand all the key issues: taxes, timing, housing, investments, and the emotions that affect decisions. Subscribe, share this episode with anyone who needs guidance, and leave a review with your hardest money question. We might answer it in a future episode.

Why You Should Listen
Divorce is not just an emotional or legal process — it’s a major life transition with financial consequences that last for decades. Ryan and Scott bring complementary expertise to help listeners understand their options, protect what matters most, and plan strategically for life after divorce.

📩 Guest Contact & Booking Info

Ryan Finley — Freedom Financial Services Group
📞 941-745-2846
📧 [e-mail]

🌐 https://www.freedomfsg.com/

Learn more about California divorce mediation and family law with Scott Levin:
https://www.sandiegofamilylawyer.net/

 📞 858-255-1321
 📧 [e-mail]

Thanks for listening and I hope you'll continue to learn more about how you can peacefully divorce.

As a divorce mediation attorney in California, Scott Levin helps couples figure out the settlement terms and draft enforceable settlement agreements so they can divorce fairly without needing to go to court. Obtain closure peacefully through an amicable divorce. process that protects families and kids.

Visit San Diego Divorce Mediation for more information and to learn more about our mission to help divorcing couples make informed decisions and fair agreements through mediation or book a free virtual consultation.

Scott Levin, attorney, mediator, CDFA®
Chief PeaceKeeper
[e-mail]
858-255-1321
San Diego Divorce Mediation & Family Law
www.SanDiegoFamilyLawyer.net

Episode Transcript

Scott Levin Divorce PeaceKe (00:02):
Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin,
Chief Peacekeeper, andappreciate you being here today.
I'm here with Ryan Finley.
Ryan is with uh FreedomFinancial Services Group, couple
offices in Nashville and inFlorida.
Saratoga.
Sarasoga.

Ryan Finley CPA (00:18):
Yes, that's correct.
Yes.

Scott Levin Divorce Peace (00:19):
Okay.
And uh but you work nationwide,Ryan, or are you state
specific?

Ryan Finley CPA (00:24):
I do.
I work nationwide.
I've got customers all over thecountry or clients.

Scott Levin Divorce Peace (00:28):
Yeah.
And so you're a CPA and a CDFA,but you're pretty much all in
the family law divorce world?

Ryan Finley CPA (00:36):
Yes, that's what I yeah, primarily.
I'm a CPA, CDFA, mediator, CBA,a little bit of everything.
So okay.

Scott Levin Divorce PeaceKee (00:43):
Do you do um is your is your is
your niche on the financialside?

Ryan Finley CPA (00:48):
Exactly.
Yes.
So that's what we do.
There's uh most of our clientsuh are I would say 80% of our
clients are are women.
We handle men as well, but it'sprimarily women that we handle.

Scott Levin Divorce PeaceKe (01:01):
And so, like, is it is it um a
situation where like someone isum like uh one of your clients
is going to is kind of not likethe primary financial person in
the marriage, and they're gonnabe coming out of the marriage
with some significant assets, oryou're evaluating, you know,
how to divide an estate so thatthey're you know best off at the

(01:21):
end, not just like your yearone, but projecting down the
road tax-wise and things likethat.

Ryan Finley CPA (01:27):
That's exactly right.
Most of our clients, and justto give you a brief scenario,
you know, when you have twopeople that meet, they get
married, they have kids, theyboth have careers.
One of them drops off and takescare of the family, the other
has their career, and then 10years down the road they get a
divorce.
You've got one spouse thattheir job is to take care of the

(01:47):
kids and the family, and it'sjust as important as the other
job.
And, you know, they're notinvolved with the financial
aspects of the of the family.
And so a lot of them are ourclients.
They come to us and they don'tunderstand what's going on.
They don't understand theirfinancial picture, they don't
know what the bills are, theydon't know what investments they
have.
And so a lot of that is justreassuring them and educating

(02:11):
them on what they actually have,getting my arms around their
financial picture and being ableto explain that in a way that
they understand it and come upwith a plan that, okay, here's
what your living expenses are,here's what your expected income
is, you know.

Scott Levin Divorce Peace (02:27):
Yeah, that income expectation.
Like I have a client right nowwhere she I'm doing the
mediation, but she's talkingabout um, she's going to end up
with around like 2 million or soin a Roth IRA, but she's
pushing for more cash becauseshe wants to buy a home for
cash.
Um, and she's got a uh kind ofa an adult dependent, but so she

(02:48):
needs some space.
But um, you know, I'm sittingthere thinking, like, um, I
should have someone run thenumbers for her so she
understands, like, if you have aRoth IRA, and let's say you
take $400,000 of it and you putit as a down payment, and then
you have a mortgage, and thenyou put that the Roth to work
for you, and it spits off incomeand dividends and interest, and

(03:11):
you have that scenario versustaking $2 million and just
putting it into a house andeliminating that entire that
entire pile.
I just like though that's thesort of work that I would I I
that I think that I reallydepend on CDFAs to do or to and
to help evaluate like thosedecisions because they're like
so impactful.

(03:32):
So you're not only doing thedivorce, but then you're
thinking, what am I gonna dowith the money?
And you're doing it all at onceand you're doing it without
like the guidance.
It's a scary situation forpeople, I think.

Ryan Finley CPA (03:41):
It is, and there's some people I I've got
clients like you described aswell, where they have they
suddenly come into this all thismoney and they don't know what
to do with it, how to invest it,and you know, whether they and
the scenario you proposed isexactly what you see a lot.
You know, do I cash this in tobuy the house?
You know, and it's anindividual decision if it's just

(04:02):
making you know 12% or 10% orwhatever it's making, and and
you can get a mortgage for sixpercent.
Why would you take that money?
You've got a spread of five orsix percent on there that this
money is earning money for you.
Why would you cash that in andyou know, spend it?
I I know it's peace of mind,and it could be a cash flow is

(04:24):
where there could be cash flowreasons why you wouldn't do
that, but for the most part, youknow, a lot of people don't
understand that.
And a lot of people makeemotional decisions, and and I'm
sure in your situation, you'reaware of this too.
It's they look at what sixmonths or a year down the road,
my kids in this school, I wantto keep them in that school.
They don't see the financialimpact of what that is 10 years

(04:45):
down the road when their kidsout and on their own.
And what do they have as far asincome?

Scott Levin Divorce Peace (04:51):
Yeah, I mean, and they're also making
decisions like you know, a lotof my clients trying to keep the
home.
That's always a traditionalthing, especially with kids.
Um, and we get very creative inmy in my practice with the home
and how to how to, you know,co-ownership or buying out, uh,
structuring those buyouts, butyou know, keeping the home for
the kid, but and they're lookingat this interest rate and
they're like, I have a 3.25,like that's an asset.

(05:13):
And I'm like, yes, of course itis.
But you're looking at in thepurview of like a four-year
period, you know, but we hadn'tseen six or seven percent
interest rates on like a on aprimary, you know, mortgage in a
long time before you know 2020or whatever it was.
So, like, you know, in thespectrum, we could go back that
route and we might not.
I know a lot of people saywe're not, but who knows?

(05:35):
So, like you're kind of makinglike these narrow decisions like
in the moment.
And um, you know, one of thethings, Ryan, um, that I deal
with a lot, I'm doing a lot ofprenuptial agreements, and I
represent a lot of um the a lotof uh uh primarily females that
are uh marrying into likesignificant wealth, but these
prenups are awful and they're soimpactful.

(05:57):
I've done so many divorces withprenups where the the people
don't even they're they're like,Yeah, I met my lawyer once and
uh I signed it, and uh you know,now 28 years later I'm being
held by this people piece ofpaper, I'm 56 years old.
Um, when people are waivingspousal support, I I'm a huge
proponent of not doing that in aprenup.

(06:18):
But I wonder, like, um, like,are you are you able to project,
like, is there a mathematicallike process or calculation
where you can show somebody likehere, look, this is what like a
waiver of spousal support couldmean to your lifestyle in the
future?

Ryan Finley CPA (06:35):
Yeah, and that's what I try to do.
Yeah, like like you said, everysituation is different, but you
try to analyze what thatperson's situation is and the
future impact of it.
You know, I I've had some caseswhere um, you know, they they
get married, they they've got atrust in their spouse is trying
to convince them that we're youknow, we're gonna be married

(06:56):
forever.
Just, you know, put my name onit or put some of that in here.
And it's like, you know, itit's it's like a premarital
that's separate property fornow, but the minute you
commingle that, it's not gone tothat.
And so a lot of my advice it tothem is just, you know, let's
let's think about this first,you know, that you can pull
money in, but you can't movemoney back and forth, you know.

Scott Levin Divorce PeaceKee (07:18):
So it's just it's in your practice
in CPA.
Do you have clients that uhmost of your clients hire you
together as or if you have liketraditional CPA work?
And do you and is there ascenario where you've had one
saying, hey, like let's just youknow put that put that in, you
know, why don't you take 600,000of that inheritance and put it
in our joint account?

(07:39):
We'll buy a house with it.
And do you is there a scenariowhere you're like cautioning
that person or explaining therepercussions of that work?
Is that something that you haveto deal with?

Ryan Finley CPA (07:49):
It is it I'm seeing more of it with my
divorce work though.
Just you know, people kind ofexplaining to them the
difference between separateproperty and marital property.
You know, people think thatthis is what I had going into
the marriage, even though youknow I bought my house and I put
I put her name on it, but Imade the down payment.
You know, they're thinking thatthat down payment's separate

(08:11):
property, and it's not, it'sit's marital property because
it's co-mingled and that spouseson the on the on the title.

Scott Levin Divorce PeaceKe (08:20):
Um, one other question I have for
you is what's pop what's reallypopular uh uh for my clients uh
the last year or so for whateverreason.
I think I'm just uh I'm workingwith a little bit more of an
older population, maybe um as Iget older.
Uh, you know, I have a lot ofclients that are um basically to

(08:40):
try to accomplish a buyout uhof or an equalization of their
assets, they're taking a 401kand they're transferring it to
their spouse via a quadro, butthen they're overfunding that
transfer.
Let's say they're trying to get200,000 to the to their spouse.
Their spouse is going to cashout that transfer.
So instead of it going intotheir own IRA, they're gonna

(09:03):
cash it out in their bankaccount and they're and they're
overfunding that transfer sothat the person ends up after
their income tax payment,they're they're they're arriving
at that net figure.
Do you have any advice orcustom?
Like, is that a is that if youI know it's hard as a again,
it's a specific to eachindividual case, of course, but

(09:24):
like is uh in general, are you afan or does it concern you when
someone is um doing that cashout process during the quadro?

Ryan Finley CPA (09:33):
It concerns me because, like you said, during
mediations and and allocation ofassets, you're trying to get it
equitable.
And $100,000 in an IRA accountdoesn't equal $100,000 cash for
what you mentioned there,because there is a tax effect
and a penalty if they're not ifthey're not $59 and a half.
So uh yeah, we do see thatquite a bit and we do advise on

(09:56):
that.
But I'm I'm more of a fan ofmaking things equal.
This cash equals this cash,this investment equals this
investment.
And the other trick that that'sin there too, if you're
dividing investments, is youknow, this is kind of financial
technical, but people may notunderstand this.

(10:17):
But if you have an investment,let's say you have a hundred
shares of Microsoft stock, youbought 20 of it 20 years ago,
and you bought 20 of it 10 yearsago, and then 25 years, and so
that stock's not the same.
You've got a different basis inthis stock versus this stock.
So if I give you the stuff thatI bought a long time ago,

(10:37):
you're gonna have a huge capitalgain that you're gonna have to
recognize when you sell thatstock.
So I'm a big proponent of onefor you, one for me.
If there's 10, 20 that werebought then, I get 10, you get
10.
So that's more than about allthe lots equally.

Scott Levin Divorce Peace (10:52):
Yeah, that's really important.
All the lots have to be, andyou have to have uh the
settlement agreement written bysomebody that knows what they're
doing, because um you'redirecting Vanguard or Fidelity
through the settlementagreement, how to how to do that
division.
Um, and if one spouse is um,you know, if the new if the the

(11:14):
spouse that's getting you knowthose half the transfer of those
assets is setting up itsschwab, but it's uh the assets
are at Vanguard.
Well, Vanguard is naturallylike you know, they're
essentially their client is theone staying at Vanguard, not the
one that's sending them up toSchwab.
And not to say that they wouldintentionally do anything, but
if they're not being directedspecifically to divide every

(11:38):
equity, every lot equally, thenyou end up with the potential
you know problem.
And uh everyone, the the reasonthat we started this
conversation, kind of justjumping in, is because my goal
was to illustrate severaldifferent examples of how um you
know Ryan helps people, how hecan help people.

(11:58):
There's so much complexity, butat the same time, divorce, and
I don't know if you share thisopinion, Ryan.
Uh, I say it all the time, itdoesn't have to be as
complicated as as the internetmakes it seem to be.
You just have to form a team,and that team has to be um uh
consists of people that canactually help and make your

(12:19):
decisions simpler and easier.
Uh, and uh I certainly thinkRyan uh is able to do that.
Do you want to let people knowwhere they can uh kind of
connect with you?

Ryan Finley CPA (12:30):
Yes, the best way to reach me, and and I
completely agree with what yousaid, Scott.
That's my philosophy as well.
It doesn't have to becomplicated.
You know, it's it but it isit's a math problem that you
have to solve, and you need afinancial person to help you
solve this math.
Divorce is about dividingassets and children and
different things, but it's it'sa it's a big math problem.

(12:52):
It is a big problem.
People can reach me via mywebsite.
It's www.freedomfsg.com.
And if the there's a uhschedule a consultation tab on
there, and if they'll click onthat and fill out the form, then
I'll reach back out to them andbe glad to.

Scott Levin Divorce Pe (13:07):
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much forjoining us, and uh, we'll see
you guys soon.

Ryan Finley CPA (13:11):
All right, thanks, Scott.