Navigating High-Conflict Divorce: Mediating with a Narcissistic Spouse alongside Experts Scott Levin and Lara Brunström

Are you facing the daunting challenge of negotiating a divorce with a partner whose personality could fill a Shakespearean drama? Fear not, for Scott Levin, a top rated divorce mediation lawyer in San Diego, CA, alongside coaching maestro Lara Brunstrom, unravels the intricate dance of mediating with a narcissistic spouse. Our enlightening discussion cuts through the noise, offering a clear path to amicable settlements even amidst the highest of conflicts. Dive deep with us as we navigate the complexities of communication, the role of experts in easing tensions, and the strategy behind choosing mediation over the fiery pits of litigation.

There's a silver lining in every cloud, and in the realm of divorce mediation, it's witnessing the transformation of our clients as they embark on new chapters of their lives. Lara and I share the heartwarming journey and profound gratification of steering individuals towards sanity-preserving outcomes that allow them to flourish. Take a seat at our table as we celebrate the success stories that trickle back from those we've guided, a testament to the power of professional collaboration and the art of effective communication. This session is not only a treasure trove of wisdom but also a beacon of hope for anyone braving the choppy seas of high-conflict divorce.

Thanks for listening and I hope you'll continue to learn more about how you can peacefully divorce.

As a divorce mediation attorney in California, Scott Levin helps couples figure out the settlement terms and draft enforceable settlement agreements so they can divorce fairly without needing to go to court. Obtain closure peacefully through an amicable divorce. process that protects families and kids.

Visit San Diego Divorce Mediation for more information and to learn more about our mission to help divorcing couples make informed decisions and fair agreements through mediation or book a free virtual consultation.

Scott Levin, attorney, mediator, CDFA®
Chief PeaceKeeper
[e-mail]
858-255-1321
San Diego Divorce Mediation & Family Law
www.SanDiegoFamilyLawyer.net

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everybody, this is Scott Levin, chief
Peacekeeper.
I'm a mediation attorney inCalifornia and one topic I'm
here with Lara Brunström Hi,lara, hello.
One issue that comes up all thetime when I am talking with
people about mediation andwhether it can be appropriate

(00:24):
for their situation et cetera,is can you mediate a double
divorce settlement if yourspouse is narcissistic or has
narcissism or anotherhigh-conflict personality trait?
So you help people approachdivorce through a coaching

(00:46):
service that you offer, whereyou keep them even keeled, you
keep them focused, you keep themon point so that they can be
successful in mediation.
But I guess my question is whatdo you think about narcissism
and voluntary settlement throughmediation?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's absolutely doable.
So I mean you can do anythingright.
I also believe wholeheartedlythat narcissism is a very broad,
overused term.
I don't know how many times youwould say you saw a true, bona
fide textbook.

(01:23):
100% shows all the signsdiagnosable narcissist.
I would say more what we dealwith on a daily basis is
somebody who has highlights ofnarcissism.
They have maybe if there's 20traits, they have like three.

(01:46):
However, your spouse has beendealing with those three and
they get exploded right and theyget very frustrated by them.
So it's very doable to get toreach an amicable settlement.
It takes skillset that youdon't probably have right now.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Do you think that hiring attorneys to litigate a
divorce is less helpful or morehelpful when you're dealing with
someone that you think hasthose high conflict traits?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh my gosh.
So I'm going to answer that alittle bit different, because I
am a flag-waving believer insettlements and mediation.
I truly, wholeheartedly believethat it is so hard if you start
an escalation up here todeescalate a divorce that if you

(02:42):
can hit the ground running witha mediator such as yourself,
who's super skilled in theircraft and really reaches
settlements so often I don'teven know I don't think we've
ever shared a case that youhaven't brought to settlement
Like you're super successfulTeamed up with somebody who's
helping you a good mediator andsomebody who's helping you

(03:05):
communicate in situations thatyou just don't have the skillset
for, that's, I think, perfect.
You can go lawyer up.
What I tend to see with highconflict is the lawyers aren't
referring out to coaches,they're not utilizing other

(03:28):
sources and it's just escalatingand that becomes a problem.
So, yes, you can do it.
And is it going to be moreeffective to both of you have a
lawyer?
My guess is you'll both have alawyer, you'll spend a year
getting divorced and then you'llend up in mediation.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I agree.
I think the de-escalation isharder Once you start in a
litigation stance, even filingthat.
The way that that first courtfiling is prepared can be
triggering, because that's whatyour attorney is trained to do

(04:08):
is to position yourself againstthe other person.
And even that initiation can bedrafted in a way that is really
puts the other person on thedefensive right from the
beginning.
And people that are put in thedefensive that already have the
history to show that they can bevery reactive and explosive in

(04:31):
that reaction.
You want to keep things as calmat the outset as possible and
then escalate only if it'srequired.
But why not try a process thatgets you if it's successful,
will get you out of therelationship in a matter of
months rather than years, Ifyou're really dealing with

(04:51):
someone that's emotionally andmentally beating you down,
essentially I would want to getaway from that person as quickly
and fairly as possible, but notto get hunkered down in a two
and a half year battle.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Absolutely, and I do.
You raise a really good pointbecause I see this all the time.
Where a brief is written orwhatever the papers are called
I'm not a lawyer.
Whatever the papers that goback and forth are called
there's always an attorney onone side who has to jab.
You know well, he's supereducated but he just doesn't

(05:30):
really do anything with hiseducation, so he has a tendency
to not like why, why?
Like that has nothing to dowith how this is going to go.
I'm jabbing at character inthose papers sends things
sideways really fast where, ifyou're both working with you,

(05:54):
you're not writing something toto sword fight, you're writing
something to come to resolution.
So you're not picking a fight.
You're actually kind of pavinga smoother road for them to get
to where they want to go.
Ultimately, if you're filingfor divorce, your goal is
presumably to get divorced, notto spend two years fighting or

(06:17):
badgering the other person,which doesn't help the kids.
That's a whole nother topic.
But that's not going to serveyour children to be in this
battle for two years, which iswhy I think a lot of people who
start with lawyer up theirescalated slide right back down
to mediation.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
It's interesting.
So to approach a case in my, inmy opinion, you should navigate
a process through mediation,but you can still get all the
consultants and people on a teamthat will help set you up.
So you can, you know, have acoach like Laura, you can hire a
consulting team, you can have afinancial expert, but these

(06:57):
folks are, you know, working onan hourly basis and advising you
.
But the end goal is to getthrough the process in the most
direct way, absolutely, and Ithink that's one of the benefits
of that education and adviceand counsel and and all that
great support.
But as opposed to relying onone person who is very used to

(07:19):
being the only person involvedin a case, as that person's you
know attorney, counselor, youknow therapist in a way, you
know everything around where areally used to be setting up to
be the sole provider of service,and so that's one option.
Or you can go this other way,where you have a whole team of

(07:41):
people designed to help you getthrough it, and that's really
the smart approach.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's smart and I think it's less expensive.
Like when you say a whole team,my brain goes oh my gosh, I'm
thinking people are going tothink oh my gosh, I have to hire
all these people.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
So much.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
It's not the case.
It's actually addressing theclient as a whole person their
personalities, the conflictsthey're facing, the legal aspect
, their emotions, their children.
All of that's going to be tied,big fat bow tied around all of
that.
That's the solution we'relooking for and we're looking
for a client to come through theother side of this, ready for

(08:21):
their future, not torn apart andembattled in like scars all
over the place internal,external, visible, not visible
Like.
That's not the goal.
The goal is to get out to theother side, start your new life,
have your feet firmly plantedon the ground and your kids
healthy and happy.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, and I love what you said.
When someone files for divorce,presumably that goal is to get
divorced, not to just get stuckin the divorce process, and
everything you said can't happenuntil you get through it and
get yourself unstuck.
The way to get unstuck in ouropinions is to is to attack the
issues and figure out solutionsthrough a mediated settlement.

(08:59):
But to learn more, how canpeople contact you, taylor?
I'll put all the information inthe description, of course.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm .
Sterling Fire Coaching is whatI call my coaching company.
My name is Laura.
You can find it in the noteshere.
I have a lot of people reachout that just want some guidance
on how to go through thisprocess, how they get through it
sane, how they work with you,how they meet with you and have

(09:30):
conversations with their spouseon the outside of the meetings
they have with you.
So it's really beneficial.
I super love sharing clientswith you because we get such
great results, so it's lots offun to launch people into their
next world.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
So yeah, that's how you find me put it in the notes.
Yeah, and I love seeing peoplethat email me a couple of years
later or call for something,just to check in and tell me how
well they're doing.
It's great to see that they'vehad that opportunity to thrive,
which came from the settlementbeing done in this way.
Absolutely All right y'all,we'll see you soon and thanks

(10:09):
for watching or listening.