November 6, 2025 • 10 mins
Jon Bassford joins Mediator and Chief PeaceKeeper™ Scott Levin to share The Co-Parenting Secret—his powerful story of transforming conflict into cooperation after divorce. Together, we explore how curiosity, empathy, and a child-first mindset can turn even the hardest separations into opportunities for peace and growth.
Drawing from his personal journey co-parenting with his former spouse, Jon shares how curiosity and compassion helped him build a peaceful, child-centered relationship grounded in mutual understanding rather than control. Together, Jon and Scott explore the principles of peacekeeping mediation, emotional intelligence, and the daily choices that help families heal and thrive after separation.
🕊️ A must-listen for anyone navigating co-parenting, family conflict, or the path to harmony after divorce.
CONNECT WITH JON
🌐 Get the Book
For other parenting and mediation resources, visit our online co-parenting library for book suggestions, podcasts, great videos, and just a collection of the best, unique, educational sources found anywhere on the web.
Thanks for listening and I hope you'll continue to learn more about how you can peacefully divorce.
As a divorce mediation attorney in California, Scott Levin helps couples figure out the settlement terms and draft enforceable settlement agreements so they can divorce fairly without needing to go to court. Obtain closure peacefully through an amicable divorce. process that protects families and kids.
Visit San Diego Divorce Mediation for more information and to learn more about our mission to help divorcing couples make informed decisions and fair agreements through mediation or book a free virtual consultation.
Scott Levin, attorney, mediator, CDFA®
Chief PeaceKeeper
scottlevinmediation@gmail.com
858-255-1321
San Diego Divorce Mediation & Family Law
www.SanDiegoFamilyLawyer.net
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief
Peacekeeper.
I'm here with John Brad uhBassford, sorry.
Um uh John wrote a book calledThe Co-Parenting Secret, but
it's not necessarily hisday-to-day job in the in the
co-parenting world.
He has a really interesting uhbackground.
He has a big business.
He he's a uh someone that we'regonna learn about right now.
(00:24):
But um, John, what led you tokind of delve into the
co-parenting and andthought-provoking in the family
law space?
So how how did you enter that?
How did you decide to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Sure.
So I mean, actually, you know,simply I was constantly being
asked, um, you know, how isco-parenting your ex-wife?
Because a lot of people knewthat our relationship did not
end the best.
And I got tired of saying,great, we could write a book on
co-parenting.
And so I actually decided to doit.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
So did you write it from like beginning to end?
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Yeah.
So um, you know, I really takepeople through a journey.
Uh, you know, I start with mypersonal story, uh, growing up
in a two-home situation, uh,talk about our situation, me and
my ex-wife, because I think it'simportant, you know, when you
read some of the stuff in mybook about what we'd be able to
create in co-parenting, itsounds like a fairy tale.
Um, you know, my ex-wife came tomy my current wife's wedding.
(01:19):
So did her parents, so did heruncles, right?
We we sit next to each other atsporting events.
And I didn't want to paint thispicture that we just, you know,
had this fairy tale separationand in marriage and and talked
about how, you know, there was alot of bitterness, there was
anger when we got divorced, whenwe separated, uh, you know,
hashing everything out.
Um, but once that all ended, wewere very, very intentional
(01:42):
about what kind of co-parentrelationship we wanted to start.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
How did when you, if you mind me asking, did you
navigate a the divorce processin uh out of court, like in
mediation or with two lawyersand kind of in the court
process?
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
Yeah, so even kind of backing up before that, I
mean, we spent the last four tosix years of marriage and
counseling, uh, and agreed todivorce and counseling.
Uh, and then we both got ourseparate attorneys, hashed
everything out.
Uh, and you know, there wasreally just kind of two sticking
points custody and and the housebuyout, uh, that that you know,
we took a little time to hashout.
(02:15):
It took about four months fromfrom the time we agreed to
separate to the separationagreement was final.
Uh, but uh, you know, we we youknow once everything all that
was done and you know wesubmitted to the courts and you
know here in Montgomery County,Maryland, you know, once you
submit your separationagreement, you just go to court
and have that rubber stamped,right?
So it's a pretty easy processonce we agreed on everything.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
How um do you have uh did you have more than one
kid or one kid uh at the time?
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
One kid, one kid, one and done.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
And uh I don't I'm not trying to pry too much, I'm
just trying to get anunderstanding of like what was
he uh a teenager, was he young,like less than eight or ten, or
where was he?
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
Oh young.
Uh he was he was a year and ahalf when we separated.
Uh so he has only known atwo-home environment.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Wow, that's pretty um interesting.
I mean, I deal with uh, youknow, as a mediation lawyer, uh
my wife is a co-parentingspecialist, so her and I help
people do what you do, whatyou've accomplished, um, kind of
on the on the daily.
But um, but a lot of those folksum, you know, uh generally kind
(03:15):
of have like, hey, uh we're notgonna do like 9010 custody,
right?
Like they've already kind ofhave like an understanding of
some sort that like they'rethere to like, you know, both be
in the kids' lives.
So it's much harder whenobviously that's not the case.
Um it's pretty awesome that youguys were able to navigate.
What are some of the um what aresome of the pitfalls that you
(03:36):
didn't um know about when youfirst did your settlement that
came up later at that you had tonavigate without you know the
attorneys or without anyprofessionals?
Uh or unless you are you stilldoing like co-parenting courses
together?
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
No, so we never did any courses or anything, you
know, even in the book I talkabout you know creating a
co-parenting plan, but was youknow very honest that we did not
have one.
You know, we you know, I I talkabout co-printing plan and given
some suggestions on how tocreate one and and what to put
in there, but you know, we justkind of learned as we as we went
along.
Um, and uh, you know, for uh forus again, it was really just
(04:09):
mainly two issues there at theend, which was uh bite out of
the house and and the custody.
And quite frankly, I wanted totry to get as close to 50-50
custody as possible.
Uh, just again, you know, again,for my my upbringing of an 80s
kid in divorce, you know, it wasyour typical mom had education,
health, physical, sick, carpool,and dad had every other weekend
(04:30):
for fun, you know, with no realresponsibilities, right?
And that's that's kind of how Isaw that arrangement.
And I didn't want that.
I knew that if I was given theout of not having real
responsibility, I wouldn't.
And I didn't want that.
I wanted I wanted my son to havea different different
relationship with me.
Um, and so we we came to anagreement ended up being 60-40.
But now, actually, with somechanges we made, it is is almost
(04:54):
exactly 50-50, if not leading mydirection a little bit more.
Because I also do, because I'mself-employed consultant work
from home, she's a pediatricnurse practitioner with
patients.
So if there's a sick day, a snowday, whatever, I take it because
I had the flexibility.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Yeah.
Um, uh, do you what do you thinkabout um in mediation?
What I or when I'm talking topeople about like why mediation
and all that, uh, I often say,like, listen, um, when you have
a custody um like parentingterms put on you by a court or
another lawyer, you don't abideby them, basically.
(05:31):
Like you kick and scream afterthe divorce and you show up
late.
You you don't trade off, youtake more time, you do what you
want because you had someonetell you how you were gonna
parent.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Do you think that people thatare able to kind of set their
plans together uh at thebeginning are able uh more so to
follow through on those plans?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Uh, you know, again, you know,for the most part, we we came,
you know, ended up coming to apretty good agreement on on how
everything would work.
And again, you know, we we cameto you know with a very
intentional understanding thatwe were both going to be in each
other's lives, like likefamilies, everything, like we're
all going to sporting events,we're all going to school
events, right?
There was no your time and mytime, it was our kids' time,
(06:12):
right?
So, so again, coming into thatintentional agreement of of how
we want to play this outabsolutely makes a difference.
And I will even say on the flipside of that, that you know,
when you create, go intocreating an intentional
co-parent relationship where itjust gels well, all the initial
agreements just go out thewindow, right?
(06:34):
Because you're there for eachother.
You're help, you help out whenshe needs help, she helps out
when you need help.
And the I obviously never tellanyone to disregard a legal
document or court document here,but when you truly is working
well in gelling, all the leaderlegal stuff goes away.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean, it's it's kind of likeuh if the shit hits the fan
agreement, really.
Like if you aren't uh if youaren't aligned, if your
communication breaks down, atleast having a plan, you know,
get make sure that you know whenyou're gonna have Thanksgiving
or what days you're gonna have.
Um uh, you know, one of thethings that comes up obviously,
(07:10):
like uh especially, you know,when the kids are like like
yours was real young, and and ifmom is still breastfeeding, or
or like you know, the kids whenthey're like, you know, one,
two, are still with mommy for afive kind of transition to
daddy.
Um, and but people with reallyyoung kids don't know that that
transition is coming.
But one of the things that um Ireally don't like from the
(07:33):
perspective of a child is whensomeone has an every other
weekend, or when a dad inparticular has an every other
weekend uh sort of custodysituation, is that he's not
inner or that person, he or sheis not interacting with the
school at all.
And that's a huge part ofgrowing up.
And if you don't know, if youthe teacher never sees you,
(07:53):
you're not on the school emaillist, like you're basically just
you're not you're not an activeparent.
And that's something that that Ialways try to stress, like,
okay, if that's really what youguys want, like I'm gonna write
it down, right?
Who am I?
But maybe can we just doThursday?
Because then at least dad'sdropping off on Friday morning,
he's seeing the parent, he's gotsome stake in that in the school
(08:14):
system.
What do you what are yourthoughts about that?
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Yeah, I mean, I completely agree.
Again, again, this is no noshima, my dad, but you know,
that's a ship art.
Like, I'd say my dad wasn't aparent.
Um, and again, that it was, Ithink it was a product of
society at the time.
That's just what what was done.
And I and I mean I have toprobably admit that my dad
probably didn't want more thanthat um at the time either.
Um, not to get him off, youknow, scot-free, but uh um, but
(08:37):
yeah, like I so I think there'stwo things, right?
That there's there's thatrelationship, which again, I
grew up in the 80s, where Iwould not call parenting from
from the the the dad side.
Then you have parallel parentingwhere each parent is doing their
complete opposite own thing andthere isn't that cohesion, and
then there's the the theco-parenting, which is you know
really the best way to do it tocreate that cohesive environment
(09:00):
for your kids.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
Yeah, no, I like that.
I mean, uh, I think it's reallycool that uh that you uh put the
book out.
It's got five stars on everyplatform.
I read some of the reviewsbecause I don't believe it that
anyone's telling the truth inreviews, but they were all like
spread out, they looked likereally legitimate.
They had like uh what do theycall it on Amazon?
Like authorized or verifiedpurchase, yeah.
(09:23):
Yeah, verified purchase.
Yeah.
So it's pretty awesome, man,that you uh you did this.
Um uh while you have uh, youknow, your whole your whole uh
you have a whole other business.
Uh can you just tell me aboutthat real quick?
And sure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah, so uh I'm a consultant.
Um sorry, a dog just over thebackground there.
Um uh I'm a consultant uh inbusiness operations, helping uh
startups, small businesses, andnonprofits uh create efficient,
effective operations that thatthat help them grow.
Uh through that, you know, wedive into you know process
procedures type of operations,but also you know, deal with you
(09:56):
know executive coaching, youknow, helping the mindset of the
leaders and letting go ofcontrol, letting go of ego, and
then you know, talking about howto build a culture that will uh
truly innovate, grow, andchange.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
That's awesome, man.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, listen, I'll let you go.
Uh, it was a pleasure to talk toyou.
Guys, get the book.
I'll put all the links and allthat good stuff.
But uh, John, really appreciatethe a few minutes of your time
and uh keep up the good work, myfriend.
SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
Thanks for having me, Scott.
I enjoyed it.
Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief
Peacekeeper.
I'm here with John Brad uhBassford, sorry.
Um uh John wrote a book calledThe Co-Parenting Secret, but
it's not necessarily hisday-to-day job in the in the
co-parenting world.
He has a really interesting uhbackground.
He has a big business.
He he's a uh someone that we'regonna learn about right now.
(00:24):
But um, John, what led you tokind of delve into the
co-parenting and andthought-provoking in the family
law space?
So how how did you enter that?
How did you decide to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Sure.
So I mean, actually, you know,simply I was constantly being
asked, um, you know, how isco-parenting your ex-wife?
Because a lot of people knewthat our relationship did not
end the best.
And I got tired of saying,great, we could write a book on
co-parenting.
And so I actually decided to doit.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
So did you write it from like beginning to end?
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Yeah.
So um, you know, I really takepeople through a journey.
Uh, you know, I start with mypersonal story, uh, growing up
in a two-home situation, uh,talk about our situation, me and
my ex-wife, because I think it'simportant, you know, when you
read some of the stuff in mybook about what we'd be able to
create in co-parenting, itsounds like a fairy tale.
Um, you know, my ex-wife came tomy my current wife's wedding.
(01:19):
So did her parents, so did heruncles, right?
We we sit next to each other atsporting events.
And I didn't want to paint thispicture that we just, you know,
had this fairy tale separationand in marriage and and talked
about how, you know, there was alot of bitterness, there was
anger when we got divorced, whenwe separated, uh, you know,
hashing everything out.
Um, but once that all ended, wewere very, very intentional
(01:42):
about what kind of co-parentrelationship we wanted to start.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
How did when you, if you mind me asking, did you
navigate a the divorce processin uh out of court, like in
mediation or with two lawyersand kind of in the court
process?
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
Yeah, so even kind of backing up before that, I
mean, we spent the last four tosix years of marriage and
counseling, uh, and agreed todivorce and counseling.
Uh, and then we both got ourseparate attorneys, hashed
everything out.
Uh, and you know, there wasreally just kind of two sticking
points custody and and the housebuyout, uh, that that you know,
we took a little time to hashout.
(02:15):
It took about four months fromfrom the time we agreed to
separate to the separationagreement was final.
Uh, but uh, you know, we we youknow once everything all that
was done and you know wesubmitted to the courts and you
know here in Montgomery County,Maryland, you know, once you
submit your separationagreement, you just go to court
and have that rubber stamped,right?
So it's a pretty easy processonce we agreed on everything.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
How um do you have uh did you have more than one
kid or one kid uh at the time?
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
One kid, one kid, one and done.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
And uh I don't I'm not trying to pry too much, I'm
just trying to get anunderstanding of like what was
he uh a teenager, was he young,like less than eight or ten, or
where was he?
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
Oh young.
Uh he was he was a year and ahalf when we separated.
Uh so he has only known atwo-home environment.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Wow, that's pretty um interesting.
I mean, I deal with uh, youknow, as a mediation lawyer, uh
my wife is a co-parentingspecialist, so her and I help
people do what you do, whatyou've accomplished, um, kind of
on the on the daily.
But um, but a lot of those folksum, you know, uh generally kind
(03:15):
of have like, hey, uh we're notgonna do like 9010 custody,
right?
Like they've already kind ofhave like an understanding of
some sort that like they'rethere to like, you know, both be
in the kids' lives.
So it's much harder whenobviously that's not the case.
Um it's pretty awesome that youguys were able to navigate.
What are some of the um what aresome of the pitfalls that you
(03:36):
didn't um know about when youfirst did your settlement that
came up later at that you had tonavigate without you know the
attorneys or without anyprofessionals?
Uh or unless you are you stilldoing like co-parenting courses
together?
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
No, so we never did any courses or anything, you
know, even in the book I talkabout you know creating a
co-parenting plan, but was youknow very honest that we did not
have one.
You know, we you know, I I talkabout co-printing plan and given
some suggestions on how tocreate one and and what to put
in there, but you know, we justkind of learned as we as we went
along.
Um, and uh, you know, for uh forus again, it was really just
(04:09):
mainly two issues there at theend, which was uh bite out of
the house and and the custody.
And quite frankly, I wanted totry to get as close to 50-50
custody as possible.
Uh, just again, you know, again,for my my upbringing of an 80s
kid in divorce, you know, it wasyour typical mom had education,
health, physical, sick, carpool,and dad had every other weekend
(04:30):
for fun, you know, with no realresponsibilities, right?
And that's that's kind of how Isaw that arrangement.
And I didn't want that.
I knew that if I was given theout of not having real
responsibility, I wouldn't.
And I didn't want that.
I wanted I wanted my son to havea different different
relationship with me.
Um, and so we we came to anagreement ended up being 60-40.
But now, actually, with somechanges we made, it is is almost
(04:54):
exactly 50-50, if not leading mydirection a little bit more.
Because I also do, because I'mself-employed consultant work
from home, she's a pediatricnurse practitioner with
patients.
So if there's a sick day, a snowday, whatever, I take it because
I had the flexibility.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Yeah.
Um, uh, do you what do you thinkabout um in mediation?
What I or when I'm talking topeople about like why mediation
and all that, uh, I often say,like, listen, um, when you have
a custody um like parentingterms put on you by a court or
another lawyer, you don't abideby them, basically.
(05:31):
Like you kick and scream afterthe divorce and you show up
late.
You you don't trade off, youtake more time, you do what you
want because you had someonetell you how you were gonna
parent.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Do you think that people thatare able to kind of set their
plans together uh at thebeginning are able uh more so to
follow through on those plans?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Uh, you know, again, you know,for the most part, we we came,
you know, ended up coming to apretty good agreement on on how
everything would work.
And again, you know, we we cameto you know with a very
intentional understanding thatwe were both going to be in each
other's lives, like likefamilies, everything, like we're
all going to sporting events,we're all going to school
events, right?
There was no your time and mytime, it was our kids' time,
(06:12):
right?
So, so again, coming into thatintentional agreement of of how
we want to play this outabsolutely makes a difference.
And I will even say on the flipside of that, that you know,
when you create, go intocreating an intentional
co-parent relationship where itjust gels well, all the initial
agreements just go out thewindow, right?
(06:34):
Because you're there for eachother.
You're help, you help out whenshe needs help, she helps out
when you need help.
And the I obviously never tellanyone to disregard a legal
document or court document here,but when you truly is working
well in gelling, all the leaderlegal stuff goes away.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean, it's it's kind of likeuh if the shit hits the fan
agreement, really.
Like if you aren't uh if youaren't aligned, if your
communication breaks down, atleast having a plan, you know,
get make sure that you know whenyou're gonna have Thanksgiving
or what days you're gonna have.
Um uh, you know, one of thethings that comes up obviously,
(07:10):
like uh especially, you know,when the kids are like like
yours was real young, and and ifmom is still breastfeeding, or
or like you know, the kids whenthey're like, you know, one,
two, are still with mommy for afive kind of transition to
daddy.
Um, and but people with reallyyoung kids don't know that that
transition is coming.
But one of the things that um Ireally don't like from the
(07:33):
perspective of a child is whensomeone has an every other
weekend, or when a dad inparticular has an every other
weekend uh sort of custodysituation, is that he's not
inner or that person, he or sheis not interacting with the
school at all.
And that's a huge part ofgrowing up.
And if you don't know, if youthe teacher never sees you,
(07:53):
you're not on the school emaillist, like you're basically just
you're not you're not an activeparent.
And that's something that that Ialways try to stress, like,
okay, if that's really what youguys want, like I'm gonna write
it down, right?
Who am I?
But maybe can we just doThursday?
Because then at least dad'sdropping off on Friday morning,
he's seeing the parent, he's gotsome stake in that in the school
(08:14):
system.
What do you what are yourthoughts about that?
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Yeah, I mean, I completely agree.
Again, again, this is no noshima, my dad, but you know,
that's a ship art.
Like, I'd say my dad wasn't aparent.
Um, and again, that it was, Ithink it was a product of
society at the time.
That's just what what was done.
And I and I mean I have toprobably admit that my dad
probably didn't want more thanthat um at the time either.
Um, not to get him off, youknow, scot-free, but uh um, but
(08:37):
yeah, like I so I think there'stwo things, right?
That there's there's thatrelationship, which again, I
grew up in the 80s, where Iwould not call parenting from
from the the the dad side.
Then you have parallel parentingwhere each parent is doing their
complete opposite own thing andthere isn't that cohesion, and
then there's the the theco-parenting, which is you know
really the best way to do it tocreate that cohesive environment
(09:00):
for your kids.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
Yeah, no, I like that.
I mean, uh, I think it's reallycool that uh that you uh put the
book out.
It's got five stars on everyplatform.
I read some of the reviewsbecause I don't believe it that
anyone's telling the truth inreviews, but they were all like
spread out, they looked likereally legitimate.
They had like uh what do theycall it on Amazon?
Like authorized or verifiedpurchase, yeah.
(09:23):
Yeah, verified purchase.
Yeah.
So it's pretty awesome, man,that you uh you did this.
Um uh while you have uh, youknow, your whole your whole uh
you have a whole other business.
Uh can you just tell me aboutthat real quick?
And sure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah, so uh I'm a consultant.
Um sorry, a dog just over thebackground there.
Um uh I'm a consultant uh inbusiness operations, helping uh
startups, small businesses, andnonprofits uh create efficient,
effective operations that thatthat help them grow.
Uh through that, you know, wedive into you know process
procedures type of operations,but also you know, deal with you
(09:56):
know executive coaching, youknow, helping the mindset of the
leaders and letting go ofcontrol, letting go of ego, and
then you know, talking about howto build a culture that will uh
truly innovate, grow, andchange.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
That's awesome, man.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, listen, I'll let you go.
Uh, it was a pleasure to talk toyou.
Guys, get the book.
I'll put all the links and allthat good stuff.
But uh, John, really appreciatethe a few minutes of your time
and uh keep up the good work, myfriend.
SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
Thanks for having me, Scott.
I enjoyed it.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.