April 4, 2022 • 24 mins
Part 3 of 7. Inappropriate.
This series of podcasts is produced with the support of the Office of the eSafety Commissioner.
We will look closely at how young people might engage with sexual content online and how parents and carers can get involved in this discussion.
In this episode we will discuss the word inappropriate. Greg from eSafety talks through the classification system and Fida talks about the appropriateness of RSE in faith based schools.
More about the Australian classification system. See information about Fida Sanjakdar.
See eSafety at https://www.esafety.gov.au/. Sexual Health Victoria at https://shvic.org.au/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
this podcast is intended for an adult audience.
Take care if there might be young people listening.
Welcome to doing it.
This is a podcast to help parents carers and anyone working with young people understand relationships and sexuality education.
My name is Anne and I work with the sexual health victoria's schools and community team.
(00:21):
We deliver classes to school aged Children so they can better understand their own bodies.
Growing up respect consent reproduction,
sex,
sexual health and relationships.
This is episode three of a seven part series produced with the support of the E Safety Commissioner,
Go back a couple of episodes if you miss them in the safety best practice framework for online safety education.
(00:46):
There is reference to Children's rights online.
They say that young people have the right to provision participation and protection in the digital world.
In this series,
I'm focusing on protection.
We understand that comprehensive relationships and sexuality education can be a protective factor for young people on or offline.
(01:10):
In this episode,
I would like to talk about the word inappropriate.
This is the euphemism that adults often use when they mean sexual nude,
pornographic violent drugs,
alcohol,
addictive,
costly,
confusing Zweiri private and any number of things young people use the word inappropriate too because they understand from the avoidance of these specific words that they are not allowed to use them.
(01:38):
This makes it harder to report a problem if the only word they have to describe the problem is inappropriate.
In a recent grade six class,
I asked what they thought their adults were worried about when they were online.
The answer was they're worried we will see something inappropriate.
They struggle to find any other words.
(01:59):
When I asked them what sort of things are inappropriate in this episode,
I will explore why this word is so popular and try to make an argument for ditching it.
Part of a discussion of choosing suitable online content for any particular age group is using classification systems to assess risk.
Here is Alex from E safety to explain how these categories help,
(02:28):
Alex,
thank you so much for speaking to me about classifications.
The classification system is a guide for the type of content included in a game or a film or a publication.
So what sort of things are we trying to protect young people from viewing?
Yes,
so the classification ratings are designed to help ensure people are viewing content that they are mature enough to be able to respond to and to process.
(02:56):
There is a lot of information that that comes across in the media.
And so it's to give guides about the the level of seriousness and explicitness that people can expect to see within within material.
So,
the classification guidelines are that there's three guidelines.
There's a guideline for film and television programs.
(03:17):
There's a guideline for computer games,
and there's a guide for publications in each of them.
They set out the levels of material that is allowed of each classification.
There's also a big subset of material that that the classification guidelines say is inappropriate for anybody to be able to view.
And that includes the most serious types of content,
(03:38):
like pro terrorist material,
material that promotes and incites and instructs in matters of crime And um offensive depictions of people under the age of 18.
So child sexual exploitation material,
you know,
the classification guidelines try to give an indication of how much sex or violence or language or themes might be in the media that is being consumed.
(04:07):
The higher the rating,
the higher the impact of the element it does take into consideration the impact,
doesn't it?
So what the content is and the context and the impact that might have on the viewer.
Yeah,
and I think context is exactly the right word,
because there is,
you know,
some context,
like an educational program where it might be appropriate to have levels of nudity or sex where,
(04:32):
you know,
talking about pregnancy or or whatever the case may be,
but where it's taken out of that context and it presented in a different form than the impact is much higher.
And that's what the guidelines are trying to to provide early on.
You use the phrase offensive content in context.
And sometimes I've seen that people would use the word offensive or inappropriate content when they're actually talking about illegal content,
(04:58):
which is child sexual abuse material.
So how do you think we can address that in the materials that we provide or the that we talk to young people,
or do you think it makes a difference?
I think it does make a difference.
That's a really hard question and it's one of the things that we trying to move away from using the term offensive,
actually,
so we've rebranded the way that we talk about content now as a legal and restricted on the online content rather than illegal.
(05:27):
And offensive.
I guess offensive is um subjective,
isn't it?
And so,
you know,
and it covers a vast range of material that is available now,
whereas if we limit,
I guess if we're trying to limit the material that we look at and what we talk about,
we're talking about,
you know,
really high and really impactful material that really nobody needs to see is,
(05:52):
you know,
and so and I think also,
I mean,
I think at the end of the day,
a mature discussion about anything is better than trying to put a term over the top of it.
So,
you know,
if you can have,
you know,
have those conversations upfront with kids about the material that is available and and and what it's what it's purpose is,
(06:15):
I think I might have and how you might deal with the impact,
you know,
I know,
I don't have kids,
but having spoken to friends who whose kids have been exposed to porn at an age where these parents weren't ready for it and the kids weren't ready for it as well.
(06:35):
It's,
you know,
how do you then talk about what they've seen and how and what it represents and and and what real life is.
Yeah,
tricky conversations for everyone when it comes to things like nudity.
I know social media say there's body parts you can't in particularly show,
(06:55):
do the guidelines specify body parts you're not meant to show or is it more about the context?
It's more about the context.
So,
the guidelines talk about the impact of the nudity and,
and the type of nudity.
So,
um,
so nudity might be allowed in a context where where it is appropriate and it adds to the to whatever information is being provided,
(07:21):
but it's very much context rather than specifics is all online content.
No,
no,
it's not.
There are there is commercial content that is sold through online stores,
like a computer game,
that would have a classification.
Movies that are sold in online stores would have the same classification that they would have if you were going to the cinema or a DVD store,
(07:45):
not that they exist as much anymore.
Good luck finding one.
Um,
but uh,
and there is other content that that might be restricted due to the type of material that it is,
for example,
if you went on to the website of a provider of alcohol,
you might be asked to provide information about your age to,
(08:06):
to allow you to um,
to access that material,
but the vast majority of websites aren't rated.
um but websites might have,
like an acceptable use policy that restricts the type of content that can be that can be made available on the website and also how that material is presented.
(08:27):
So some of the social media sites where they provide explicit material might require that that is behind an age gate.
And so in order to be able to access it,
you have to Provide your age but not proof of age,
just by saying,
Hey,
I'm above age depends on the site.
But you know,
(08:47):
there is a whole program at the moment looking into age verification online to look at what,
what are the appropriate methods and what what might be the best methods to do that.
But at the moment,
you know,
it ranges from a declaration that yes,
I am over the age of 18 or in some cases,
you know,
when you sign up,
you need to see with information that shows just a bit of a side question.
(09:12):
I've just realized recently that classifications can be different between countries.
So if you're viewing netflix content,
America classifies nudity differently to Australia,
is that correct?
That's absolutely right.
I mean,
there are some examples of international efforts to try and standardize classification,
(09:34):
for example,
the computer game industry have their own online classification tool where the developer of the game can put the components of the game into a system and it spits out the relevant classification for multiple jurisdictions.
So,
you know,
if they were going to sell it in Australia,
here's the classification for what it would be in Australia as opposed to the U.
(09:56):
K.
Or the United States.
It's so interesting.
So if parents and carers are sort of using this as one of the tools to gauge which content they think is suitable for For their young people dealing across jurisdictions as well.
So how would a young person gain access to content which is supposed to be restricted to over 18?
(10:16):
So unfortunately that material is really easily available because so much of the material online is not classified.
And so there aren't effective systems necessarily in place to stop people from being able to go into a search engine and type whatever they're looking for.
And the search results coming up.
So there are tools that that people can consider using on their search.
(10:40):
So you can put safe search functionality in place that restricts the sort of content that you can look at,
you can customize that so that,
you know,
certain material is able to to be found and other material is restricted and and other material can be accessed once a parent has said,
sure,
go ahead and have a look at it.
(11:02):
And then there's also,
you know,
filtering products that that you could consider over the top that also limit the sort of availability of material that is inappropriate for kids,
um and absolutely would recommend that adults work to the best of their technical ability to filter.
A lot of adults feel like their Children have better technical ability than them.
(11:24):
So that becomes tricky as well.
What else could a young person do for their own sort of risk assessment to decide if content was right for them?
Absolutely.
I mean,
I guess the first point,
of course would be to have discussions where you come across material that that is inappropriate.
You know,
there's always,
I guess going to be material that pops up and takes you by surprise on social media,
(11:45):
because there's so much content.
So one way might be to,
you know,
not engaged with the content where you see it,
if it comes up,
close it down and go and have a conversation with someone about the material.
If you can you can always report that material to us as well,
if you come across,
you know,
material that you think is we we refer to it as illegal and restricted online content.
(12:07):
So we look at the really high end material,
you can report that material to us and and we can look to take certain action under our legislation for,
you know,
some of the content that is provided from Australia.
We can direct a service provided to to put it behind that kind of restricted access system so that in order to gain access to it,
(12:29):
you have to demonstrate that you that you're mature enough to access the content,
and then I think it's just being aware that the contents out there,
you know,
there's a whole lot of material out there that that is really empowering and really great content to engage with,
but there's also a whole lot of content out there that that provides uh you know,
not great stereotypes around sexual health and around sexual behavior,
(12:53):
so it's knowing that that material is out there and thinking about whether it's stuff that you actually want to engage with,
that's a perfect advertisement for what we do and what we advocate for,
which is having lots of conversations about sex and sexuality with young people,
awesome Alex,
thank you so much.
No worries,
thanks for having me Alex mentioned the idea that part of protection might be letting Children know that there is content out there,
(13:22):
which isn't for them,
this might seem counterintuitive when parents and carers are told so much that they should protect by blocking and shielding young people from the content.
Classifications have specific language about depictions of sex violence and drug use and the impact it might have on the consumer,
but these ratings are not present on everything online.
(13:45):
It's really useful for young people to be taught other ways of gauging what sort of content they're consuming and being able to recognize the impact it might be having.
We're often confronted with the idea that relationships and sexuality education might be inappropriate for faith based schools or families who ascribe to a faith fetus injector is a researcher and educator who frequently challenges the idea that faith and comprehensive sexuality education are mutually exclusive.
(14:18):
Sophie to talking about this idea of the word inappropriate,
what do you think about the idea that relationships and sexuality education is inappropriate for faith based schools and that is something we hear a little bit from schools and teachers and parents and carers.
When I first read the question,
(14:39):
a little surprising because the word itself.
Yes,
I've heard it but it's not necessarily coin or associated with RSC being inappropriate.
So I think you'll find that teachers are different stakeholders affiliated with faith based schools will argue that R.
C.
Is a subject of study is inappropriate.
(15:00):
I think educators might think that there are just some aspects of the way its taught,
all the way certain information is shared with the students.
That becomes inappropriate subject itself,
I don't think is inappropriate mall.
If you're breaking rse into separate topics,
(15:23):
the topic of sexual behavior online is that would they have inappropriate contexts or be a difficult thing to talk about in faith based schools.
Do you think?
I think one they would recognize it to be appropriate for lack of a better word because they will assign the appropriateness of that subject.
(15:43):
The fact that young Muslims are consumers of wider Australian population.
They are a product of society,
they will be susceptible to the same influences as any other person.
The only question of inappropriateness that may come in will be,
what are you going to be saying?
(16:05):
How is that going to be delivered to the students who may be delivering it?
What kind of examples are you going to be using?
So,
so language is very important.
Communications are critical,
important in our in our effort to respect all of those things that are essential to our and that's why again,
(16:26):
how they reached that conclusion of what is appropriate or inappropriate will just come down to those factors rather than just a blanket broad brush statement that such a topic.
But all of the topics,
you know,
all of the topics that are regarded as progressive or a little bit more sensitive,
although the entire curriculum really is like pornography consent,
(16:49):
education issues concerning the L.
G.
T.
B.
Q.
I communities,
all of those things are regarded as appropriate,
especially in the in the in an Islamic school amongst muslim communities simply because these are issues that islam raises and these are issues that they identify young Muslims are no of and are living with so they won't negate the importance of that.
(17:14):
They will just make more careful decisions about on how to deliver that information in the context of delivery.
I know teachers do sometimes substitute in when they're talking about sex or sexual behavior,
the word inappropriate when they're delivering this information.
(17:35):
So for example,
if a teacher is talking about sexting or sending nudes,
they might use the words this person sent an inappropriate image.
So what words could we use if we talk to young people about sex and sexuality and the potential for sexual content online rather than use the word inappropriate.
(17:58):
If we are being really careful about context and delivery.
Yeah,
I think that's a really good question and I think you'll find and is it okay if I just talk more more specifically about what you might find amongst the muslim community that is that okay to do that?
I don't think you can rule out the word appropriate and inappropriate.
I think that will just roll off the tongue quite easily.
(18:21):
But I think you'll find many teachers and in this space when they're communicating this with their muslim students probably use other words like suitable or Islamic lee acceptable or upholding Islamic morals and values.
So I think they will always carefully align that and marry that with what is Islamic lee suitable or acceptable.
(18:47):
So they will use them freely.
This is this is a reflection of Islamic value or this is how you can engage in Islamic morals.
For me personally,
I don't think we should worry so much about the semantics.
You know whether we use the word appropriate or inappropriate.
I think that's a flawed idea because we're still kind of teaching this subject with the universal tone and a brush,
(19:12):
I think we need to concentrate more on that.
There are different ways of transferring this information that and there are different ways of being culturally responsive and that we don't necessarily need to generate a consensus.
So for example,
an Islamic school or either if it's done in line with Islamic teachings,
(19:33):
a particular topic will be presented to the students as Islamic,
quickly acceptable or upholding Islamic morals.
But nowhere in there does it mean that they have to do it?
This is just a frame of reference.
So again,
students,
autonomy is still is still,
there's that is not taken away.
And I think that's probably a probably better language than appropriate or inappropriate because it's almost like it's definitive.
(20:00):
But if you say that this is something in line with a moral or in line with a character you should aspire to or in line with community acceptable behavior,
then you you've given them a positive spin on what they what it can be.
And then you're still giving them the autonomy to do it or not.
And I think that's probably a better way and probably why such words such as appropriate and inappropriate can attract so much negativity because it's almost like saying this is right and this is wrong.
(20:31):
What did you say culturally acceptable?
It is about context in this context.
We can teach what is culturally acceptable in this context and we can teach in this context and then you decide that you decide because I think that's one thing most people don't understand about the slam is that there is something called free will.
(20:52):
There is something called autonomy.
It's just take it's a different way of looking at from a White Western length.
So,
you know,
that doesn't mean that you can't instruct students on this is this is the profit we need to be able to emulate,
you know,
in our day to day practices,
but nowhere in there does it say I have to and then and open it up for questions.
If you ask students,
(21:12):
if this is acceptable in Australian society,
why is this acceptable or unacceptable?
And then just open it up for discussion,
but don't take away that that that ability of the students to actually come to their own conclusion.
Teaching our receipts is it's not a precise process and sometimes we get locked into that kind of a process with,
(21:36):
with the desire to be exact and I don't think that's the right way to do it.
I think the idea is that it's okay to say this is a we're going to discuss a topic that there are many viewpoints about about it.
We're and we may open up and encourage other people in the class to share their viewpoints.
And so they get they understand that it's a controversial topic that's a sensitive issue.
(22:01):
There's a wide viewpoints about it.
And that's it be exacting,
does apply values that good and bad and this is how you do it and this is how you don't do it.
Some cultures,
there is no adolescent stage,
you go straight from childhood.
So this idea that you have to be so precise or exact or give one example is still quite dominant.
(22:28):
If we start to understand that language is a way to open up a more interesting dialogue and understanding of the topic by using words that aren't so value laden but more maybe suggestive or inviting and still allow students to have involvement in the process.
(22:48):
Then that's probably one way.
So I think language is critical,
awesome.
Thanks so much for your time.
Thank you.
And all the best sex and sexuality does not always fall under the category of inappropriate.
It's my feeling that we can do better in protecting young people from content which isn't right for their age or stage by being more specific about what they might encounter and give them the language to be able to talk about it.
(23:19):
Child sexual abuse material isn't it appropriate?
It's illegal.
An adult asking a child for sexual pictures isn't inappropriate.
It's illegal a parent or carer wanting to arm their child with credible information about section sexuality isn't inappropriate.
(23:40):
It's necessary.
Thank you so much for my guests Alex and feta.
You can see more information about fetus san Jack to um I'll also put a note about the Australian classification system and a link in the show notes as well.
For more information on sexual health victoria,
go to s h vic dot org dot au.
(24:01):
For research,
information and resources on e safety,
go to e safety dot gov dot au.
You can contact me directly at doing it at S h vik dot org dot au.
Follow sexual health victoria on social media like the podcast.
If you like it,
subscribe so you don't miss out on the next episode.
Thank you so much for listening.
this podcast is intended for an adult audience.
Take care if there might be young people listening.
Welcome to doing it.
This is a podcast to help parents carers and anyone working with young people understand relationships and sexuality education.
My name is Anne and I work with the sexual health victoria's schools and community team.
(00:21):
We deliver classes to school aged Children so they can better understand their own bodies.
Growing up respect consent reproduction,
sex,
sexual health and relationships.
This is episode three of a seven part series produced with the support of the E Safety Commissioner,
Go back a couple of episodes if you miss them in the safety best practice framework for online safety education.
(00:46):
There is reference to Children's rights online.
They say that young people have the right to provision participation and protection in the digital world.
In this series,
I'm focusing on protection.
We understand that comprehensive relationships and sexuality education can be a protective factor for young people on or offline.
(01:10):
In this episode,
I would like to talk about the word inappropriate.
This is the euphemism that adults often use when they mean sexual nude,
pornographic violent drugs,
alcohol,
addictive,
costly,
confusing Zweiri private and any number of things young people use the word inappropriate too because they understand from the avoidance of these specific words that they are not allowed to use them.
(01:38):
This makes it harder to report a problem if the only word they have to describe the problem is inappropriate.
In a recent grade six class,
I asked what they thought their adults were worried about when they were online.
The answer was they're worried we will see something inappropriate.
They struggle to find any other words.
(01:59):
When I asked them what sort of things are inappropriate in this episode,
I will explore why this word is so popular and try to make an argument for ditching it.
Part of a discussion of choosing suitable online content for any particular age group is using classification systems to assess risk.
Here is Alex from E safety to explain how these categories help,
(02:28):
Alex,
thank you so much for speaking to me about classifications.
The classification system is a guide for the type of content included in a game or a film or a publication.
So what sort of things are we trying to protect young people from viewing?
Yes,
so the classification ratings are designed to help ensure people are viewing content that they are mature enough to be able to respond to and to process.
(02:56):
There is a lot of information that that comes across in the media.
And so it's to give guides about the the level of seriousness and explicitness that people can expect to see within within material.
So,
the classification guidelines are that there's three guidelines.
There's a guideline for film and television programs.
(03:17):
There's a guideline for computer games,
and there's a guide for publications in each of them.
They set out the levels of material that is allowed of each classification.
There's also a big subset of material that that the classification guidelines say is inappropriate for anybody to be able to view.
And that includes the most serious types of content,
(03:38):
like pro terrorist material,
material that promotes and incites and instructs in matters of crime And um offensive depictions of people under the age of 18.
So child sexual exploitation material,
you know,
the classification guidelines try to give an indication of how much sex or violence or language or themes might be in the media that is being consumed.
(04:07):
The higher the rating,
the higher the impact of the element it does take into consideration the impact,
doesn't it?
So what the content is and the context and the impact that might have on the viewer.
Yeah,
and I think context is exactly the right word,
because there is,
you know,
some context,
like an educational program where it might be appropriate to have levels of nudity or sex where,
(04:32):
you know,
talking about pregnancy or or whatever the case may be,
but where it's taken out of that context and it presented in a different form than the impact is much higher.
And that's what the guidelines are trying to to provide early on.
You use the phrase offensive content in context.
And sometimes I've seen that people would use the word offensive or inappropriate content when they're actually talking about illegal content,
(04:58):
which is child sexual abuse material.
So how do you think we can address that in the materials that we provide or the that we talk to young people,
or do you think it makes a difference?
I think it does make a difference.
That's a really hard question and it's one of the things that we trying to move away from using the term offensive,
actually,
so we've rebranded the way that we talk about content now as a legal and restricted on the online content rather than illegal.
(05:27):
And offensive.
I guess offensive is um subjective,
isn't it?
And so,
you know,
and it covers a vast range of material that is available now,
whereas if we limit,
I guess if we're trying to limit the material that we look at and what we talk about,
we're talking about,
you know,
really high and really impactful material that really nobody needs to see is,
(05:52):
you know,
and so and I think also,
I mean,
I think at the end of the day,
a mature discussion about anything is better than trying to put a term over the top of it.
So,
you know,
if you can have,
you know,
have those conversations upfront with kids about the material that is available and and and what it's what it's purpose is,
(06:15):
I think I might have and how you might deal with the impact,
you know,
I know,
I don't have kids,
but having spoken to friends who whose kids have been exposed to porn at an age where these parents weren't ready for it and the kids weren't ready for it as well.
(06:35):
It's,
you know,
how do you then talk about what they've seen and how and what it represents and and and what real life is.
Yeah,
tricky conversations for everyone when it comes to things like nudity.
I know social media say there's body parts you can't in particularly show,
(06:55):
do the guidelines specify body parts you're not meant to show or is it more about the context?
It's more about the context.
So,
the guidelines talk about the impact of the nudity and,
and the type of nudity.
So,
um,
so nudity might be allowed in a context where where it is appropriate and it adds to the to whatever information is being provided,
(07:21):
but it's very much context rather than specifics is all online content.
No,
no,
it's not.
There are there is commercial content that is sold through online stores,
like a computer game,
that would have a classification.
Movies that are sold in online stores would have the same classification that they would have if you were going to the cinema or a DVD store,
(07:45):
not that they exist as much anymore.
Good luck finding one.
Um,
but uh,
and there is other content that that might be restricted due to the type of material that it is,
for example,
if you went on to the website of a provider of alcohol,
you might be asked to provide information about your age to,
(08:06):
to allow you to um,
to access that material,
but the vast majority of websites aren't rated.
um but websites might have,
like an acceptable use policy that restricts the type of content that can be that can be made available on the website and also how that material is presented.
(08:27):
So some of the social media sites where they provide explicit material might require that that is behind an age gate.
And so in order to be able to access it,
you have to Provide your age but not proof of age,
just by saying,
Hey,
I'm above age depends on the site.
But you know,
(08:47):
there is a whole program at the moment looking into age verification online to look at what,
what are the appropriate methods and what what might be the best methods to do that.
But at the moment,
you know,
it ranges from a declaration that yes,
I am over the age of 18 or in some cases,
you know,
when you sign up,
you need to see with information that shows just a bit of a side question.
(09:12):
I've just realized recently that classifications can be different between countries.
So if you're viewing netflix content,
America classifies nudity differently to Australia,
is that correct?
That's absolutely right.
I mean,
there are some examples of international efforts to try and standardize classification,
(09:34):
for example,
the computer game industry have their own online classification tool where the developer of the game can put the components of the game into a system and it spits out the relevant classification for multiple jurisdictions.
So,
you know,
if they were going to sell it in Australia,
here's the classification for what it would be in Australia as opposed to the U.
(09:56):
K.
Or the United States.
It's so interesting.
So if parents and carers are sort of using this as one of the tools to gauge which content they think is suitable for For their young people dealing across jurisdictions as well.
So how would a young person gain access to content which is supposed to be restricted to over 18?
(10:16):
So unfortunately that material is really easily available because so much of the material online is not classified.
And so there aren't effective systems necessarily in place to stop people from being able to go into a search engine and type whatever they're looking for.
And the search results coming up.
So there are tools that that people can consider using on their search.
(10:40):
So you can put safe search functionality in place that restricts the sort of content that you can look at,
you can customize that so that,
you know,
certain material is able to to be found and other material is restricted and and other material can be accessed once a parent has said,
sure,
go ahead and have a look at it.
(11:02):
And then there's also,
you know,
filtering products that that you could consider over the top that also limit the sort of availability of material that is inappropriate for kids,
um and absolutely would recommend that adults work to the best of their technical ability to filter.
A lot of adults feel like their Children have better technical ability than them.
(11:24):
So that becomes tricky as well.
What else could a young person do for their own sort of risk assessment to decide if content was right for them?
Absolutely.
I mean,
I guess the first point,
of course would be to have discussions where you come across material that that is inappropriate.
You know,
there's always,
I guess going to be material that pops up and takes you by surprise on social media,
(11:45):
because there's so much content.
So one way might be to,
you know,
not engaged with the content where you see it,
if it comes up,
close it down and go and have a conversation with someone about the material.
If you can you can always report that material to us as well,
if you come across,
you know,
material that you think is we we refer to it as illegal and restricted online content.
(12:07):
So we look at the really high end material,
you can report that material to us and and we can look to take certain action under our legislation for,
you know,
some of the content that is provided from Australia.
We can direct a service provided to to put it behind that kind of restricted access system so that in order to gain access to it,
(12:29):
you have to demonstrate that you that you're mature enough to access the content,
and then I think it's just being aware that the contents out there,
you know,
there's a whole lot of material out there that that is really empowering and really great content to engage with,
but there's also a whole lot of content out there that that provides uh you know,
not great stereotypes around sexual health and around sexual behavior,
(12:53):
so it's knowing that that material is out there and thinking about whether it's stuff that you actually want to engage with,
that's a perfect advertisement for what we do and what we advocate for,
which is having lots of conversations about sex and sexuality with young people,
awesome Alex,
thank you so much.
No worries,
thanks for having me Alex mentioned the idea that part of protection might be letting Children know that there is content out there,
(13:22):
which isn't for them,
this might seem counterintuitive when parents and carers are told so much that they should protect by blocking and shielding young people from the content.
Classifications have specific language about depictions of sex violence and drug use and the impact it might have on the consumer,
but these ratings are not present on everything online.
(13:45):
It's really useful for young people to be taught other ways of gauging what sort of content they're consuming and being able to recognize the impact it might be having.
We're often confronted with the idea that relationships and sexuality education might be inappropriate for faith based schools or families who ascribe to a faith fetus injector is a researcher and educator who frequently challenges the idea that faith and comprehensive sexuality education are mutually exclusive.
(14:18):
Sophie to talking about this idea of the word inappropriate,
what do you think about the idea that relationships and sexuality education is inappropriate for faith based schools and that is something we hear a little bit from schools and teachers and parents and carers.
When I first read the question,
(14:39):
a little surprising because the word itself.
Yes,
I've heard it but it's not necessarily coin or associated with RSC being inappropriate.
So I think you'll find that teachers are different stakeholders affiliated with faith based schools will argue that R.
C.
Is a subject of study is inappropriate.
(15:00):
I think educators might think that there are just some aspects of the way its taught,
all the way certain information is shared with the students.
That becomes inappropriate subject itself,
I don't think is inappropriate mall.
If you're breaking rse into separate topics,
(15:23):
the topic of sexual behavior online is that would they have inappropriate contexts or be a difficult thing to talk about in faith based schools.
Do you think?
I think one they would recognize it to be appropriate for lack of a better word because they will assign the appropriateness of that subject.
(15:43):
The fact that young Muslims are consumers of wider Australian population.
They are a product of society,
they will be susceptible to the same influences as any other person.
The only question of inappropriateness that may come in will be,
what are you going to be saying?
(16:05):
How is that going to be delivered to the students who may be delivering it?
What kind of examples are you going to be using?
So,
so language is very important.
Communications are critical,
important in our in our effort to respect all of those things that are essential to our and that's why again,
(16:26):
how they reached that conclusion of what is appropriate or inappropriate will just come down to those factors rather than just a blanket broad brush statement that such a topic.
But all of the topics,
you know,
all of the topics that are regarded as progressive or a little bit more sensitive,
although the entire curriculum really is like pornography consent,
(16:49):
education issues concerning the L.
G.
T.
B.
Q.
I communities,
all of those things are regarded as appropriate,
especially in the in the in an Islamic school amongst muslim communities simply because these are issues that islam raises and these are issues that they identify young Muslims are no of and are living with so they won't negate the importance of that.
(17:14):
They will just make more careful decisions about on how to deliver that information in the context of delivery.
I know teachers do sometimes substitute in when they're talking about sex or sexual behavior,
the word inappropriate when they're delivering this information.
(17:35):
So for example,
if a teacher is talking about sexting or sending nudes,
they might use the words this person sent an inappropriate image.
So what words could we use if we talk to young people about sex and sexuality and the potential for sexual content online rather than use the word inappropriate.
(17:58):
If we are being really careful about context and delivery.
Yeah,
I think that's a really good question and I think you'll find and is it okay if I just talk more more specifically about what you might find amongst the muslim community that is that okay to do that?
I don't think you can rule out the word appropriate and inappropriate.
I think that will just roll off the tongue quite easily.
(18:21):
But I think you'll find many teachers and in this space when they're communicating this with their muslim students probably use other words like suitable or Islamic lee acceptable or upholding Islamic morals and values.
So I think they will always carefully align that and marry that with what is Islamic lee suitable or acceptable.
(18:47):
So they will use them freely.
This is this is a reflection of Islamic value or this is how you can engage in Islamic morals.
For me personally,
I don't think we should worry so much about the semantics.
You know whether we use the word appropriate or inappropriate.
I think that's a flawed idea because we're still kind of teaching this subject with the universal tone and a brush,
(19:12):
I think we need to concentrate more on that.
There are different ways of transferring this information that and there are different ways of being culturally responsive and that we don't necessarily need to generate a consensus.
So for example,
an Islamic school or either if it's done in line with Islamic teachings,
(19:33):
a particular topic will be presented to the students as Islamic,
quickly acceptable or upholding Islamic morals.
But nowhere in there does it mean that they have to do it?
This is just a frame of reference.
So again,
students,
autonomy is still is still,
there's that is not taken away.
And I think that's probably a probably better language than appropriate or inappropriate because it's almost like it's definitive.
(20:00):
But if you say that this is something in line with a moral or in line with a character you should aspire to or in line with community acceptable behavior,
then you you've given them a positive spin on what they what it can be.
And then you're still giving them the autonomy to do it or not.
And I think that's probably a better way and probably why such words such as appropriate and inappropriate can attract so much negativity because it's almost like saying this is right and this is wrong.
(20:31):
What did you say culturally acceptable?
It is about context in this context.
We can teach what is culturally acceptable in this context and we can teach in this context and then you decide that you decide because I think that's one thing most people don't understand about the slam is that there is something called free will.
(20:52):
There is something called autonomy.
It's just take it's a different way of looking at from a White Western length.
So,
you know,
that doesn't mean that you can't instruct students on this is this is the profit we need to be able to emulate,
you know,
in our day to day practices,
but nowhere in there does it say I have to and then and open it up for questions.
If you ask students,
(21:12):
if this is acceptable in Australian society,
why is this acceptable or unacceptable?
And then just open it up for discussion,
but don't take away that that that ability of the students to actually come to their own conclusion.
Teaching our receipts is it's not a precise process and sometimes we get locked into that kind of a process with,
(21:36):
with the desire to be exact and I don't think that's the right way to do it.
I think the idea is that it's okay to say this is a we're going to discuss a topic that there are many viewpoints about about it.
We're and we may open up and encourage other people in the class to share their viewpoints.
And so they get they understand that it's a controversial topic that's a sensitive issue.
(22:01):
There's a wide viewpoints about it.
And that's it be exacting,
does apply values that good and bad and this is how you do it and this is how you don't do it.
Some cultures,
there is no adolescent stage,
you go straight from childhood.
So this idea that you have to be so precise or exact or give one example is still quite dominant.
(22:28):
If we start to understand that language is a way to open up a more interesting dialogue and understanding of the topic by using words that aren't so value laden but more maybe suggestive or inviting and still allow students to have involvement in the process.
(22:48):
Then that's probably one way.
So I think language is critical,
awesome.
Thanks so much for your time.
Thank you.
And all the best sex and sexuality does not always fall under the category of inappropriate.
It's my feeling that we can do better in protecting young people from content which isn't right for their age or stage by being more specific about what they might encounter and give them the language to be able to talk about it.
(23:19):
Child sexual abuse material isn't it appropriate?
It's illegal.
An adult asking a child for sexual pictures isn't inappropriate.
It's illegal a parent or carer wanting to arm their child with credible information about section sexuality isn't inappropriate.
(23:40):
It's necessary.
Thank you so much for my guests Alex and feta.
You can see more information about fetus san Jack to um I'll also put a note about the Australian classification system and a link in the show notes as well.
For more information on sexual health victoria,
go to s h vic dot org dot au.
(24:01):
For research,
information and resources on e safety,
go to e safety dot gov dot au.
You can contact me directly at doing it at S h vik dot org dot au.
Follow sexual health victoria on social media like the podcast.
If you like it,
subscribe so you don't miss out on the next episode.
Thank you so much for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!