February 13, 2025 • 26 mins
Balancing marriage and ministry can feel like juggling two full-time jobs, each demanding your time and energy. What happens when these worlds collide, threatening the harmony in your relationship? On "Doing It with the Daniels," we unpack our personal journey of navigating these challenges, sharing the moments of tension and triumph that taught us the value of teamwork and communication. We promise you'll gain insights on how to ensure ministry responsibilities don't eclipse the needs of your marriage, and how to nurture your relationship even when life's pressures mount.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
balance is the key.
If you don't learn to balance,your marriage will suffer.
Welcome to doing it with thedaniels, the podcast where we
navigate life, marriage andministry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm charles and I'm tisa.
Join us as we share insights,wisdom and practical advice to
strengthen your marriage,empower your life and enrich
your ministry let's dive intogether and discover the joys
of doing it with the daniel.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hey, welcome back to another episode of doing it with
the daniels, where we helpcouples get it on in life,
marriage and ministry.
We are so glad to have you onceagain.
We are back I'm glad to be here.
Come on, so good to see youalways.
Good to see you, always good tosee you.
Good to see you too, I like tosee you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You like to see me.
I do like to see you all thetime, so crazy?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hey, it's me.
Well, what are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
today.
Today we're going to talk aboutovercoming challenges together.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Overcoming challenges together.
So really it's like workingtogether when challenges show up
.
Yes, I mean, how often dochallenges show up in marriage,
in life?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
relationships um all the time all, really all the
time.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
What you mean?
All the time I thought peoplewould, just you know, live in
life enjoying the good life.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You get married, say I do, and then it's like wedded
bliss because you are you and Iam me, and we are two different
people yes and so it's going tobe challenging to kind of work
together every day and bringyour lives together.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, different views , different upbringings, it's
all that and the reality is thatlife presents certain
challenges that couples have tonavigate through.
They have to work through andovercome, and you need to do it
together.
You're not going to be able todo everything alone.
I think that's where somecouples mess up when problems
show up, challenges show up, andthey think, oh well, I'll deal
(01:58):
with this by myself.
And we learn something in ourmarriage that whenever one of us
is having a challenge, itaffects both of us.
there's no way we can be in love, be married, be joined together
as one.
And you have a problem and Inot.
Feel it may not be my problemdirectly but, I feel what you
feel as a result of yeah andvice versa when you're hurting,
(02:22):
I feel it yeah I can see it yeah, I think for us, one of the
challenges with us that we wehave had to navigate through and
continue to navigate through Idon't think it ever ends, it's
just you get better atnavigating around it is, for us,
it's balancing.
It's a balancing excuse memarriage and ministry yes I
think that's yes, because bothof them demand that we give our
(02:46):
all.
Yeah, both of them require alot of time, uh, and I mean you
have to take away.
When you're taking away whenyou're doing ministry, you're
taking away time from yourmarriage.
When you're doing your, whenyou focus on your marriage,
you're taking away time fromyour ministry, and, and it can
create some challenges.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It creates a lot of challenges.
I remember one time I was likeam I talking to the pastor or am
I talking to charles?
And he was like I'm the pastorright now and I was like, oh my
lord you know, it all depends onwhat the topic was yeah.
So you know, just having tobalance all of that and navigate
through all of that is it'skind of interesting yeah, and
(03:21):
just, I mean, life comes withwhat it comes with.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Having children comes with the challenge it comes
with a ministry in our case isunique.
Being ministry leaders, we haveto deal with the challenges of
marriage and the challenges ofministry and be careful that we
don't allow one area to spillover into the other, because
they can't.
I don't care who you are, howstrong you are.
(03:45):
Your marriage, your, yourrelationship with your spouse
has a direct impact on yourministry.
Your ministry has a directimpact on your marriage, and I
think that's the thing.
Early on it was really toughunderstanding that balance
because we were like man what wedo at home shouldn't affect
(04:07):
ministry and what we do inministry shouldn't affect us at
home.
But we found out very fast thatit does, it affects.
So we need both aspects to behealthy yes we need to be
healthy.
Yes, I don't think those things.
I think we have to be healthyin order for those things to be
healthy.
And so that's been a big, bigmatter because, I mean, our
(04:29):
marriage can be wonderful.
We could have no challenges inthe marriage.
Things are going great.
But all the challenges are inministry and it affects the
marriage and we have to navigatethrough.
So some of our stress may notbe stress of our lives, it's
just stress of ministry.
Be stress of our lives, it'sjust stress of ministry.
Or sometimes ministry can takeyour mind, your thought, your
engagement, where you're not asattentive at home because your
(04:52):
mind is focused on ministry.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So much that's good.
I was getting ready to say thatyou can kind of lose your
marriage if you're so ministryfocused yeah try to balance the
two.
You're just so running anddoing everything with ministry
and you forget about oh, we needto, I need to connect with my
spouse, oh, we need to spendtime together, we need to talk,
we need to go out, all of that,and so you can kind of lose the
(05:15):
marriage, just so focused onministry.
So it just needs to be abalance, yeah, and ministry is
important.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Hopefully this episode, this topic, will help
those who are in ministry, notjust senior leaders right but
even those who serve in theirchurch if you're not careful
yeah, you can be so committed toyour church and not committed
enough to the well-being of yourmarriage and you can create
chaos and challenges in yourmarriage because you're not
(05:42):
balancing the two.
Or you can let challenges ofministry just showing up to
serve overwhelm you.
And then you take that home andimagine this if you work a
full-time job, most people takehome baggage from work.
Now you take home some weightsfrom ministry and now you have
to do this marriage but you gotthis other stuff affecting your
(06:03):
ability to be you in themarriage.
And people don't realize a lotof marriages in, a lot of
leaders, pastoral leaders, theirmarriages in because of the
weight and the stress ofministry.
Yeah, or it's vice versa a lotof ministries leaders leave
their ministry because they need, they, it's taking so much from
(06:27):
their marriage, they they needto go give attention there, and
so they have to make thoseadjustments and say, you know,
one of them ends up, ends uppaying the price that if we, if
you don't learn to balance it,eventually you'll say, well, one
of these got to go.
So I think it's important thatwe balance.
I think, for for us, I think wehave found healthy ways of
balancing.
(06:48):
We know when the really it'sbeing intentional about cutting
off.
You got to know when to leaveministry at the church and come
home and just be husband andwife family.
And then you got to know whenfamily has okay, family's good,
let me go and do ministry andtake care of these things they
(07:12):
both.
There has to be a balance thereand you have to overcome the
challenge that comes with eachone, otherwise your ministry can
kill your marriage or yourmarriage can kill your
effectiveness in ministry.
So it's a big thing, but anyway, those challenges may come and
people in different challenges.
We're talking about ministry.
Yeah, I think that's probablythe biggest area of challenge
that we see, because, as youhave a growing ministry, a
(07:33):
moving ministry, all they'realways moving pieces.
You know you're always dealingwith people.
Here's the other part.
You're not just dealing withyour problems, you're also
dealing with, in ministry, otherpeople's problems.
So now you're helping themnavigate their challenges, so
they're pulling on you all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Those are the joys of ministry, though it's it's.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's a joy of ministry, but it's a cost too
right?
Yeah, it's a call, it's alwaysa cost.
One thing is being pulled umeither the marriage is being
pulled on or ministry is beingpulled on and so balance is, I
think we.
I keep saying that word becausethat's the key Balance is the
key.
If you don't learn to balance,your marriage will suffer.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, it will.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
If you get stressed out with ministry, it can even
affect your intimate life withyour partner yeah.
Where you lose your drive andyour desire for intimacy.
Now, how is that going to be ahealthy marriage?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
it's not it?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
no, it's not, it's not so you got to have that
balance.
Or if your marriage is off, howyou gonna show up to church and
help yeah, if we not gettingalong and we went through this
early on in ministry where wewere at odds on saturday and
sunday morning and then I'm uptrying to preach and looking at
you upside your head like child,please, and you looking at me
(08:52):
thinking what?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
he don't believe nothing hopefully you ain't
think that no, um, or just heain't living nothing, I don't
know, just something crazy.
You know the enemy?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
will breathe.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I didn't get saved all over again you know, the
enemy will bring anything toyour mind.
So when?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
you're mad when you're at odds with one another.
You have all of these thingsthat, like you said, the enemy
brings to your mind and tries toreally just get you at odds
because that's a ministry thingbut the marriage is affected by
it.
You have those kinds ofthoughts.
We have those kinds of thoughtstowards one another.
Well, guess what?
We're ministries over.
Guess what's going to happenwhen we get home.
Now we still looking at theseother crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
We've had these crazy thoughts and it's just all over
the place, but it's aboutmoving forward from that,
overcoming, working through thattogether.
I think for both of us, we hadto work through all of those
challenges together, yeah, yeah,whether it's money, uh, whether
it's paying off debt, raisingchildren, all that stuff is
gonna come with some challengesyeah, especially raising
(09:57):
children.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think that does come with a lot of challenges
because, you got to makedecisions on what school and
sports and you know just allkind of stuff homework.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
This is a lot yeah, and they need to be made
together so that you're inagreement yeah, right, even the
way you raise them disciplineyeah how.
How do you discipline thechildren?
That's a big one, because somepeople believe in harsher
punishments than others.
How do you do that If you camefrom a home where you just got
talked to but your spouse camefrom a home where they got I'm
(10:26):
going to use the word beat?
They got beat, hopefully notabused, but you know how do you
balance that when you're sayingI don't want my children to get
that level of punishment.
And the other that when you'resaying I don't want my children
(10:47):
to get that level of punishmentand those partners like, well,
now they need it and they got byspread around sports.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
They got the bible, you know so yeah, you got to
come to an agreement.
You got to work togetherabsolutely, and so how do you
what?
So what do you do when nobodywants to bend and they got to
make a decision or come toagreement on the situation, but
nobody's giving?
Yeah so then, what do they do?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
there's always compromise, you're not going to
get anywhere.
There's always compromise.
There's always a level ofcommunication where you have to
navigate how both you all feeland you've got to make those
adjustments right.
Somebody's gonna have to give,it has to happen, or somebody
just has to accept the otherpartner's view and that can lead
to them not feeling heard, notfeeling value in the
(11:25):
relationship what if they can'tdo that together?
then they probably need to get athird party involved.
A trusted third party, yeah,that can help them, that will be
unbiased and will assist themin making a sound decision.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, but let's give them more practical.
What can we give them aspractical steps and application
that can help them in overcomingchallenges together within
their marriage?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Okay, so number one would be acknowledge the
challenge together.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, I think some people try to avoid challenges
you can't avoid.
You have to acknowledge, youhave to call it what it is, let
it be what it is, accept eachother's position and then work
from there yeah, that's good Iagree.
Number two is build a stronger,a stronger foundation of trust
(12:14):
and communication yeah, I here'sone thing that I I think we
learned our challenges actuallybrought us closer together.
Yeah, I can remember one day wehad a disagreement on something
and we just could not get ittogether with each other, but we
decided to go on a date.
You remember that we went on adate.
We went to applebee's oh yeahand we sat there and we just
(12:34):
talked and we just laughed andwe just reminisced and when we
got done we were in a betterplace.
We had navigated through ourchallenges.
Whatever our difference was Idon't even remember what it was
but whatever it was we hadsettled it and we had begun
doing something else.
That's the first time, I think,I really saw our marriage going
from this kind of pushing backand forth, this tension, to.
(12:57):
We took that thing that wascreating tension and we used it
to make us stronger through theway we communicate, Because we
didn't avoid it, we didn'tignore it.
As we said, the first one is weacknowledge it and because we
acknowledge it, we were able totalk about it.
I think most people, when theydeal with trauma, we call it
(13:18):
challenges, but some people callit trauma.
When people deal with trauma,their trauma response is
avoidance.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Let's not talk about it.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Let's just act like it didn't happen.
Let's act like it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And move past it and act like everybody's fine.
Everybody's great, we're great,how you doing, I'm fine.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
And that and that doesn't work.
You're lying to yourself andeventually that stuff is going
to come back to hurt you, yeah,if you don't deal with it.
So so that first step,definitely, in acknowledging,
dealing with it and beingwilling to talk about it, no
matter how difficult it is todiscuss it.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think that's what it is.
It's the difficult piece yeahthat people, that it's that hard
place and it's a place ofhonesty.
Right, you have to be honest inorder to get over the
communication.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, especially if you know your spouse doesn't
want to talk about it.
It's sometimes the challenge istalking about it Because I know
.
I didn't always want to talkabout it, but.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I had to.
I had to learn that.
Number one, you don't need tohold it.
And number two, you need to behonest and just go and just talk
about it, and it's how you sayit.
Like I said before, it's howyou say it, but it's my true
feelings on how I feel, and soit has helped.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And that communication.
Like you said, that honestyshould come up in the form of
unity.
It should lead to unity and, asyou said in the second step,
build a stronger foundation fortrust, right and and that
honesty in the relationship yeah, yeah, so that's good.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Number three is a set clear joint goals clear joint
joint goals because everybodyhas their own goals, like right,
so we want, we know what wewant for ourselves, but do you
ever think to set goals withyour spouse?
Like what we're going toaccomplish together.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah and I think those goals also go to what do
we want to accomplish throughthis challenge?
If we're going to work toovercome this, what do we want
to see happen?
Sometimes some people have topull all the way back and say,
before we set a goal forovercoming the challenge, let's
set a goal for how we're goingto communicate.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, it's a big one yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
We're going to respect one another.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
We're not going to yell at one another.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
We're not going to say offensive things to one
another.
Sometimes you got to set goalsaround even the communication to
set the goals, because somepeople never get to setting the
goals because they their theirviews are so different that they
bump heads even in theconversation because they were
raised differently you know somepeople were raised where you
(15:53):
just hang up on people there'snothing wrong with that.
You know what I'm saying it'sjust different.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And so you got to talk to each other and say, hey,
we're not going to bedisrespectful.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
You know we're not going to raise our voice.
And if we do raise our voice,you know you just acknowledge.
Okay, your tone is a little,you know a little elevated and.
I'm like okay, bring it down.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
If we set those goals , then too, we have to also have
enough respect for one another.
So here's our goal forcommunication, here's our goal
for where we're going.
We have to have enough respectand value to also hold one
another accountable.
Some people do not want theirspouse to hold.
They'll let somebody else holdthem accountable, but they
(16:39):
struggle with their spouseholding them accountable because
they'll take it as criticism.
And so that's another keyfactor there of if we're going
to work through this jointly, ifwe're going to be a partnership
.
I was thinking about this todayas we were preparing to even
talk about this episode or thistopic.
I was thinking about, um, amarriage is like a business.
(17:00):
But then I pulled out.
I was like, well, I don't wantto say it's a business like a
partnership.
I think I like the idea of itbeing more so a team.
Oh yeah, we're team and we'reteammates on the same team, and
so we should be working towardsthe same goal.
Any team, those teammates haveto communicate, they have to
(17:20):
understand one another, theyhave to know the strengths of
their teammates and theirweaknesses.
Yeah, and I think that'ssomething that helped us.
Once I learned your strengthsand your weaknesses, it helped
me to deal with you better right, but some people don't want you
to see their weaknesses andthat's the issue even in
marriage.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
But you're gonna see it anyway, oh yeah that's when
you get up under the same roof.
Oh, you're gonna see it all.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, you're gonna see everything and that's where
people, when you marry somebody,it's okay.
You got to be okay with yourspouse seeing your shortcomings.
Truth of the matter is you'renot comfortable because you
don't know how they're going tohandle your short, your
shortcomings.
You don't feel safe enough withthem to be vulnerable on that
(18:05):
level.
So a lot we'll hide, yeah we'lltry to hide it.
And when a challenge becausechallenges are going to come to
expose it, Then guess what?
You go into this super crazymode to keep it concealed,
instead of being honest withyour partner and say that's not
a strength of mine.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
That's I'm not good right there.
That's the area I'm strugglingin right here.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, I'm not.
I don't handle this well,Because most of people like to
think I do everything well, butthe reality is that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
No, it's that, it's that image you want to.
You want to, you want topresent your best self and the
perfect image and the perfectperson, and it's not you don't
have to do that sometimes youdon't have to do that 100, so
that was good, all right.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
What else?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
number four is support and encourage one
another through actions.
I think that's really good.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think I struggled with that one you think so what
makes you say that?
Because you tell me what do Igive me an example?
What do I say that makes youfeel like you struggle with that
?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You would say stuff like you ain't tell me, you
don't tell me I did a good job,or something like that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, I think it's just pulling for encouragement,
maybe Pulling for a complimentsometimes, maybe Something like
that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Okay but I think I do when you like fixing stuff
around the house.
I guess it depends on what itis well, I gotta earn my praise.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Why?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I gotta why.
Why?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
is this performance based?
I?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
don't know, just trying to figure out like when
do I do it just like naturally,and when do I have to be
intentional?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think it's important for us to support and
encourage one another,especially as we're working
through.
So for me, the way it looks forme is when I see you trying to
give your best to push backagainst, um, a weakness or a
struggle or something that youdon't feel great about taking on
(20:15):
personally, I think that's theplace for me to say you can do
it.
Yeah, you know you.
You know how can I support youin doing this?
Or you're doing a great.
If I can't do anything, you'redoing a great job.
Keep, keep up the good work,keep moving in that direction.
I recognize your part.
It's just that little bit ofsupporting so that when those
(20:36):
challenges arise, they don't.
They don't.
It's not like you're my enemy.
Yeah, sometimes I think we feellike I'm fighting maybe my own
challenges within and I'm alsofighting with my spouse if
they're not supportive yeah I'mfighting your opinion of me,
your criticism of me, all thatso
being supportive at leastremoves one of the potential
(20:57):
challenges from the relationship.
At least I know I don't have tocontinue with you.
I know you love me, you acceptme, and so let me face what I
need to face and we're we're init together.
That's the togetherness.
That's what I talked aboutearlier.
It may be your challenge, butI'm affected by it because it
affects you.
But my role is to be supportiveand say no, you're gonna face
this.
I'm gonna face this with you,yeah, and I'm gonna do all I can
(21:17):
to help you overcome it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, and you've been , you've done that you've been
very helpful with that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I think we do that with each other I think we do
our best to do that with oneanother, to support one another
through challenges.
I think I have more space withyou because you kind of share
your challenges from time totime.
Yeah, sometimes you don't liketalk about them, but you may
share what it is, I think, forme, it took a minute yeah, I
mean, it took both of us aminute, I think, for me.
(21:44):
I like to believe that I canovercome anything, so so I don't
even see it as a chance, I Seeit as a temporary problem that
I'm about to find a solution.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I like that attitude, though you know I like that
that you.
You know you look at stuff andyou go with stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah.
So my mindset is I'm gonnafigure it out, I'm gonna deal
with it, it'll be all right.
But there, but having yoursupport, even when I don't deal
with it as well as I think I'mgoing to, I don't handle it as
well as I think I can, or?
I'm not as equipped to handle it, as I would like to feel like I
am your support when I come tothe acknowledgement of hey, you
(22:24):
can't do this by yourself, or orthere's some growth that has to
happen in order for you tohandle this yeah your support,
uh, and encouragement is reallyhelpful.
Just just even convert theconversations of being able to
be transparent with you and haveyou listen and be supportive
when I share my weaknesses andchallenges.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's I mean, that's huge, it is I like when you do
that, because sometimes you knowI I can offer, you know, some
kind of suggestions andsometimes it works, sometimes
you know it doesn't, butsometimes you just want me to
listen.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, and it brings us closer together.
Sometimes I want you to listen,sometimes I want you to tell me
how you feel, because hearinghow you feel helps to challenge
how I feel.
Maybe I'm overthinking, maybe Ihave the wrong perspective.
Yeah, maybe I'm overthinking,maybe I have the wrong
perspective.
So hearing you talk about ithelps to kind of bring up a
settledness, a balance and acalmness to me where I can think
(23:17):
, man, this is the biggestproblem ever, what am I going to
do?
And get stressed about it.
But then I talk to you and say,well, it's not as big as you're
making it out to be.
It may, yes, a big problem.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, it has to be dealt, dealt with, but maybe
it's not as hard as you think.
It is okay.
So number five is celebrateyour progress and stay resilient
.
I like that 100%.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Stay resilient 100%.
Yeah, we definitely got tocelebrate.
Yeah, couples need to learn tocelebrate.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think we didn't celebrate enough early on no, we
just started celebrating, wejust started yeah because we we
realize where we come from werealize where we started and
where we are now, and we are ina different place.
We are not the same two people.
We're so much better, but we'restill working every day every
day, you know because thechallenges don't stop um.
(24:05):
So we're just so we're betterabsolutely, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, so I'm all for that.
Celebrate, enjoy one anotherand you can celebrate, as you
just said, even while you'remaking progress.
Celebrate the progress, enjoywhere you are, enjoy who you're
becoming.
Yeah Right, like you said,looking back to all of us,
hopefully are growing in ourrelationships.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Growing in our lives.
We're talking about ministryand marriage, growing in all
those areas.
We celebrate on both sides ofthe spectrum.
Because we've grown on bothsides, we deal with the
challenges a whole lot betterand, uh, and we don't have
nearly as many problems togetheramong us as a result of life or
ministry.
It's just that calmness, thatpeace that's coming.
(24:48):
We celebrate that growth.
It's just that calmness, thatpeace that's coming.
We celebrate that growth.
It's a good thing, and so weencourage those that listen to
us Find the positive, don'tfocus on just the negative.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And you'll find a lot of reasons to celebrate where
you're going and where you comefrom.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
All right Sounds good .
Hopefully this helps some ofyou guys overcome different
challenges in your life, in yourmarriage.
Work together, support oneanother, be encouraging one
another.
Don't be your partner's enemy.
Be their teammate, be theirsupport, be the one they can
lean on to help navigate thedifferent challenges of life.
And I promise you, with god onyour side, nothing's impossible.
You can handle everythingthat's thrown your way, no
(25:29):
matter what angle it comes from.
You'll have, you'll handle it.
You'll survive if you sticktogether.
All right, thank you forjoining us today.
Got anything else?
That's it cool.
Listen, we look forward toseeing you.
Make sure you like subscribeand share this with somebody.
You think it'll help, and we'llsee you on next time, god bless
.
Hey, thank you for joining us,for doing it with the daniels,
(25:51):
if you want to.
God bless.
balance is the key.
If you don't learn to balance,your marriage will suffer.
Welcome to doing it with thedaniels, the podcast where we
navigate life, marriage andministry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm charles and I'm tisa.
Join us as we share insights,wisdom and practical advice to
strengthen your marriage,empower your life and enrich
your ministry let's dive intogether and discover the joys
of doing it with the daniel.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hey, welcome back to another episode of doing it with
the daniels, where we helpcouples get it on in life,
marriage and ministry.
We are so glad to have you onceagain.
We are back I'm glad to be here.
Come on, so good to see youalways.
Good to see you, always good tosee you.
Good to see you too, I like tosee you.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You like to see me.
I do like to see you all thetime, so crazy?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hey, it's me.
Well, what are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
today.
Today we're going to talk aboutovercoming challenges together.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Overcoming challenges together.
So really it's like workingtogether when challenges show up
.
Yes, I mean, how often dochallenges show up in marriage,
in life?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
relationships um all the time all, really all the
time.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
What you mean?
All the time I thought peoplewould, just you know, live in
life enjoying the good life.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You get married, say I do, and then it's like wedded
bliss because you are you and Iam me, and we are two different
people yes and so it's going tobe challenging to kind of work
together every day and bringyour lives together.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, different views , different upbringings, it's
all that and the reality is thatlife presents certain
challenges that couples have tonavigate through.
They have to work through andovercome, and you need to do it
together.
You're not going to be able todo everything alone.
I think that's where somecouples mess up when problems
show up, challenges show up, andthey think, oh well, I'll deal
(01:58):
with this by myself.
And we learn something in ourmarriage that whenever one of us
is having a challenge, itaffects both of us.
there's no way we can be in love, be married, be joined together
as one.
And you have a problem and Inot.
Feel it may not be my problemdirectly but, I feel what you
feel as a result of yeah andvice versa when you're hurting,
(02:22):
I feel it yeah I can see it yeah, I think for us, one of the
challenges with us that we wehave had to navigate through and
continue to navigate through Idon't think it ever ends, it's
just you get better atnavigating around it is, for us,
it's balancing.
It's a balancing excuse memarriage and ministry yes I
think that's yes, because bothof them demand that we give our
(02:46):
all.
Yeah, both of them require alot of time, uh, and I mean you
have to take away.
When you're taking away whenyou're doing ministry, you're
taking away time from yourmarriage.
When you're doing your, whenyou focus on your marriage,
you're taking away time fromyour ministry, and, and it can
create some challenges.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It creates a lot of challenges.
I remember one time I was likeam I talking to the pastor or am
I talking to charles?
And he was like I'm the pastorright now and I was like, oh my
lord you know, it all depends onwhat the topic was yeah.
So you know, just having tobalance all of that and navigate
through all of that is it'skind of interesting yeah, and
(03:21):
just, I mean, life comes withwhat it comes with.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Having children comes with the challenge it comes
with a ministry in our case isunique.
Being ministry leaders, we haveto deal with the challenges of
marriage and the challenges ofministry and be careful that we
don't allow one area to spillover into the other, because
they can't.
I don't care who you are, howstrong you are.
(03:45):
Your marriage, your, yourrelationship with your spouse
has a direct impact on yourministry.
Your ministry has a directimpact on your marriage, and I
think that's the thing.
Early on it was really toughunderstanding that balance
because we were like man what wedo at home shouldn't affect
(04:07):
ministry and what we do inministry shouldn't affect us at
home.
But we found out very fast thatit does, it affects.
So we need both aspects to behealthy yes we need to be
healthy.
Yes, I don't think those things.
I think we have to be healthyin order for those things to be
healthy.
And so that's been a big, bigmatter because, I mean, our
(04:29):
marriage can be wonderful.
We could have no challenges inthe marriage.
Things are going great.
But all the challenges are inministry and it affects the
marriage and we have to navigatethrough.
So some of our stress may notbe stress of our lives, it's
just stress of ministry.
Be stress of our lives, it'sjust stress of ministry.
Or sometimes ministry can takeyour mind, your thought, your
engagement, where you're not asattentive at home because your
(04:52):
mind is focused on ministry.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So much that's good.
I was getting ready to say thatyou can kind of lose your
marriage if you're so ministryfocused yeah try to balance the
two.
You're just so running anddoing everything with ministry
and you forget about oh, we needto, I need to connect with my
spouse, oh, we need to spendtime together, we need to talk,
we need to go out, all of that,and so you can kind of lose the
(05:15):
marriage, just so focused onministry.
So it just needs to be abalance, yeah, and ministry is
important.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Hopefully this episode, this topic, will help
those who are in ministry, notjust senior leaders right but
even those who serve in theirchurch if you're not careful
yeah, you can be so committed toyour church and not committed
enough to the well-being of yourmarriage and you can create
chaos and challenges in yourmarriage because you're not
(05:42):
balancing the two.
Or you can let challenges ofministry just showing up to
serve overwhelm you.
And then you take that home andimagine this if you work a
full-time job, most people takehome baggage from work.
Now you take home some weightsfrom ministry and now you have
to do this marriage but you gotthis other stuff affecting your
(06:03):
ability to be you in themarriage.
And people don't realize a lotof marriages in, a lot of
leaders, pastoral leaders, theirmarriages in because of the
weight and the stress ofministry.
Yeah, or it's vice versa a lotof ministries leaders leave
their ministry because they need, they, it's taking so much from
(06:27):
their marriage, they they needto go give attention there, and
so they have to make thoseadjustments and say, you know,
one of them ends up, ends uppaying the price that if we, if
you don't learn to balance it,eventually you'll say, well, one
of these got to go.
So I think it's important thatwe balance.
I think, for for us, I think wehave found healthy ways of
balancing.
(06:48):
We know when the really it'sbeing intentional about cutting
off.
You got to know when to leaveministry at the church and come
home and just be husband andwife family.
And then you got to know whenfamily has okay, family's good,
let me go and do ministry andtake care of these things they
(07:12):
both.
There has to be a balance thereand you have to overcome the
challenge that comes with eachone, otherwise your ministry can
kill your marriage or yourmarriage can kill your
effectiveness in ministry.
So it's a big thing, but anyway, those challenges may come and
people in different challenges.
We're talking about ministry.
Yeah, I think that's probablythe biggest area of challenge
that we see, because, as youhave a growing ministry, a
(07:33):
moving ministry, all they'realways moving pieces.
You know you're always dealingwith people.
Here's the other part.
You're not just dealing withyour problems, you're also
dealing with, in ministry, otherpeople's problems.
So now you're helping themnavigate their challenges, so
they're pulling on you all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Those are the joys of ministry, though it's it's.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's a joy of ministry, but it's a cost too
right?
Yeah, it's a call, it's alwaysa cost.
One thing is being pulled umeither the marriage is being
pulled on or ministry is beingpulled on and so balance is, I
think we.
I keep saying that word becausethat's the key Balance is the
key.
If you don't learn to balance,your marriage will suffer.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, it will.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
If you get stressed out with ministry, it can even
affect your intimate life withyour partner yeah.
Where you lose your drive andyour desire for intimacy.
Now, how is that going to be ahealthy marriage?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
it's not it?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
no, it's not, it's not so you got to have that
balance.
Or if your marriage is off, howyou gonna show up to church and
help yeah, if we not gettingalong and we went through this
early on in ministry where wewere at odds on saturday and
sunday morning and then I'm uptrying to preach and looking at
you upside your head like child,please, and you looking at me
(08:52):
thinking what?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
he don't believe nothing hopefully you ain't
think that no, um, or just heain't living nothing, I don't
know, just something crazy.
You know the enemy?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
will breathe.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I didn't get saved all over again you know, the
enemy will bring anything toyour mind.
So when?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
you're mad when you're at odds with one another.
You have all of these thingsthat, like you said, the enemy
brings to your mind and tries toreally just get you at odds
because that's a ministry thingbut the marriage is affected by
it.
You have those kinds ofthoughts.
We have those kinds of thoughtstowards one another.
Well, guess what?
We're ministries over.
Guess what's going to happenwhen we get home.
Now we still looking at theseother crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
We've had these crazy thoughts and it's just all over
the place, but it's aboutmoving forward from that,
overcoming, working through thattogether.
I think for both of us, we hadto work through all of those
challenges together, yeah, yeah,whether it's money, uh, whether
it's paying off debt, raisingchildren, all that stuff is
gonna come with some challengesyeah, especially raising
(09:57):
children.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think that does come with a lot of challenges
because, you got to makedecisions on what school and
sports and you know just allkind of stuff homework.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
This is a lot yeah, and they need to be made
together so that you're inagreement yeah, right, even the
way you raise them disciplineyeah how.
How do you discipline thechildren?
That's a big one, because somepeople believe in harsher
punishments than others.
How do you do that If you camefrom a home where you just got
talked to but your spouse camefrom a home where they got I'm
(10:26):
going to use the word beat?
They got beat, hopefully notabused, but you know how do you
balance that when you're sayingI don't want my children to get
that level of punishment.
And the other that when you'resaying I don't want my children
(10:47):
to get that level of punishmentand those partners like, well,
now they need it and they got byspread around sports.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
They got the bible, you know so yeah, you got to
come to an agreement.
You got to work togetherabsolutely, and so how do you
what?
So what do you do when nobodywants to bend and they got to
make a decision or come toagreement on the situation, but
nobody's giving?
Yeah so then, what do they do?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
there's always compromise, you're not going to
get anywhere.
There's always compromise.
There's always a level ofcommunication where you have to
navigate how both you all feeland you've got to make those
adjustments right.
Somebody's gonna have to give,it has to happen, or somebody
just has to accept the otherpartner's view and that can lead
to them not feeling heard, notfeeling value in the
(11:25):
relationship what if they can'tdo that together?
then they probably need to get athird party involved.
A trusted third party, yeah,that can help them, that will be
unbiased and will assist themin making a sound decision.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, but let's give them more practical.
What can we give them aspractical steps and application
that can help them in overcomingchallenges together within
their marriage?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Okay, so number one would be acknowledge the
challenge together.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, I think some people try to avoid challenges
you can't avoid.
You have to acknowledge, youhave to call it what it is, let
it be what it is, accept eachother's position and then work
from there yeah, that's good Iagree.
Number two is build a stronger,a stronger foundation of trust
(12:14):
and communication yeah, I here'sone thing that I I think we
learned our challenges actuallybrought us closer together.
Yeah, I can remember one day wehad a disagreement on something
and we just could not get ittogether with each other, but we
decided to go on a date.
You remember that we went on adate.
We went to applebee's oh yeahand we sat there and we just
(12:34):
talked and we just laughed andwe just reminisced and when we
got done we were in a betterplace.
We had navigated through ourchallenges.
Whatever our difference was Idon't even remember what it was
but whatever it was we hadsettled it and we had begun
doing something else.
That's the first time, I think,I really saw our marriage going
from this kind of pushing backand forth, this tension, to.
(12:57):
We took that thing that wascreating tension and we used it
to make us stronger through theway we communicate, Because we
didn't avoid it, we didn'tignore it.
As we said, the first one is weacknowledge it and because we
acknowledge it, we were able totalk about it.
I think most people, when theydeal with trauma, we call it
(13:18):
challenges, but some people callit trauma.
When people deal with trauma,their trauma response is
avoidance.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Let's not talk about it.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Let's just act like it didn't happen.
Let's act like it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And move past it and act like everybody's fine.
Everybody's great, we're great,how you doing, I'm fine.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
And that and that doesn't work.
You're lying to yourself andeventually that stuff is going
to come back to hurt you, yeah,if you don't deal with it.
So so that first step,definitely, in acknowledging,
dealing with it and beingwilling to talk about it, no
matter how difficult it is todiscuss it.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think that's what it is.
It's the difficult piece yeahthat people, that it's that hard
place and it's a place ofhonesty.
Right, you have to be honest inorder to get over the
communication.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, especially if you know your spouse doesn't
want to talk about it.
It's sometimes the challenge istalking about it Because I know
.
I didn't always want to talkabout it, but.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I had to.
I had to learn that.
Number one, you don't need tohold it.
And number two, you need to behonest and just go and just talk
about it, and it's how you sayit.
Like I said before, it's howyou say it, but it's my true
feelings on how I feel, and soit has helped.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And that communication.
Like you said, that honestyshould come up in the form of
unity.
It should lead to unity and, asyou said in the second step,
build a stronger foundation fortrust, right and and that
honesty in the relationship yeah, yeah, so that's good.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Number three is a set clear joint goals clear joint
joint goals because everybodyhas their own goals, like right,
so we want, we know what wewant for ourselves, but do you
ever think to set goals withyour spouse?
Like what we're going toaccomplish together.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah and I think those goals also go to what do
we want to accomplish throughthis challenge?
If we're going to work toovercome this, what do we want
to see happen?
Sometimes some people have topull all the way back and say,
before we set a goal forovercoming the challenge, let's
set a goal for how we're goingto communicate.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, it's a big one yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
We're going to respect one another.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
We're not going to yell at one another.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
We're not going to say offensive things to one
another.
Sometimes you got to set goalsaround even the communication to
set the goals, because somepeople never get to setting the
goals because they their theirviews are so different that they
bump heads even in theconversation because they were
raised differently you know somepeople were raised where you
(15:53):
just hang up on people there'snothing wrong with that.
You know what I'm saying it'sjust different.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And so you got to talk to each other and say, hey,
we're not going to bedisrespectful.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
You know we're not going to raise our voice.
And if we do raise our voice,you know you just acknowledge.
Okay, your tone is a little,you know a little elevated and.
I'm like okay, bring it down.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
If we set those goals , then too, we have to also have
enough respect for one another.
So here's our goal forcommunication, here's our goal
for where we're going.
We have to have enough respectand value to also hold one
another accountable.
Some people do not want theirspouse to hold.
They'll let somebody else holdthem accountable, but they
(16:39):
struggle with their spouseholding them accountable because
they'll take it as criticism.
And so that's another keyfactor there of if we're going
to work through this jointly, ifwe're going to be a partnership
.
I was thinking about this todayas we were preparing to even
talk about this episode or thistopic.
I was thinking about, um, amarriage is like a business.
(17:00):
But then I pulled out.
I was like, well, I don't wantto say it's a business like a
partnership.
I think I like the idea of itbeing more so a team.
Oh yeah, we're team and we'reteammates on the same team, and
so we should be working towardsthe same goal.
Any team, those teammates haveto communicate, they have to
(17:20):
understand one another, theyhave to know the strengths of
their teammates and theirweaknesses.
Yeah, and I think that'ssomething that helped us.
Once I learned your strengthsand your weaknesses, it helped
me to deal with you better right, but some people don't want you
to see their weaknesses andthat's the issue even in
marriage.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
But you're gonna see it anyway, oh yeah that's when
you get up under the same roof.
Oh, you're gonna see it all.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, you're gonna see everything and that's where
people, when you marry somebody,it's okay.
You got to be okay with yourspouse seeing your shortcomings.
Truth of the matter is you'renot comfortable because you
don't know how they're going tohandle your short, your
shortcomings.
You don't feel safe enough withthem to be vulnerable on that
(18:05):
level.
So a lot we'll hide, yeah we'lltry to hide it.
And when a challenge becausechallenges are going to come to
expose it, Then guess what?
You go into this super crazymode to keep it concealed,
instead of being honest withyour partner and say that's not
a strength of mine.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
That's I'm not good right there.
That's the area I'm strugglingin right here.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, I'm not.
I don't handle this well,Because most of people like to
think I do everything well, butthe reality is that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
No, it's that, it's that image you want to.
You want to, you want topresent your best self and the
perfect image and the perfectperson, and it's not you don't
have to do that sometimes youdon't have to do that 100, so
that was good, all right.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
What else?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
number four is support and encourage one
another through actions.
I think that's really good.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think I struggled with that one you think so what
makes you say that?
Because you tell me what do Igive me an example?
What do I say that makes youfeel like you struggle with that
?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You would say stuff like you ain't tell me, you
don't tell me I did a good job,or something like that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, I think it's just pulling for encouragement,
maybe Pulling for a complimentsometimes, maybe Something like
that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Okay but I think I do when you like fixing stuff
around the house.
I guess it depends on what itis well, I gotta earn my praise.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Why?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I gotta why.
Why?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
is this performance based?
I?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
don't know, just trying to figure out like when
do I do it just like naturally,and when do I have to be
intentional?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think it's important for us to support and
encourage one another,especially as we're working
through.
So for me, the way it looks forme is when I see you trying to
give your best to push backagainst, um, a weakness or a
struggle or something that youdon't feel great about taking on
(20:15):
personally, I think that's theplace for me to say you can do
it.
Yeah, you know you.
You know how can I support youin doing this?
Or you're doing a great.
If I can't do anything, you'redoing a great job.
Keep, keep up the good work,keep moving in that direction.
I recognize your part.
It's just that little bit ofsupporting so that when those
(20:36):
challenges arise, they don't.
They don't.
It's not like you're my enemy.
Yeah, sometimes I think we feellike I'm fighting maybe my own
challenges within and I'm alsofighting with my spouse if
they're not supportive yeah I'mfighting your opinion of me,
your criticism of me, all thatso
being supportive at leastremoves one of the potential
(20:57):
challenges from the relationship.
At least I know I don't have tocontinue with you.
I know you love me, you acceptme, and so let me face what I
need to face and we're we're init together.
That's the togetherness.
That's what I talked aboutearlier.
It may be your challenge, butI'm affected by it because it
affects you.
But my role is to be supportiveand say no, you're gonna face
this.
I'm gonna face this with you,yeah, and I'm gonna do all I can
(21:17):
to help you overcome it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, and you've been , you've done that you've been
very helpful with that.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I think we do that with each other I think we do
our best to do that with oneanother, to support one another
through challenges.
I think I have more space withyou because you kind of share
your challenges from time totime.
Yeah, sometimes you don't liketalk about them, but you may
share what it is, I think, forme, it took a minute yeah, I
mean, it took both of us aminute, I think, for me.
(21:44):
I like to believe that I canovercome anything, so so I don't
even see it as a chance, I Seeit as a temporary problem that
I'm about to find a solution.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I like that attitude, though you know I like that
that you.
You know you look at stuff andyou go with stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah.
So my mindset is I'm gonnafigure it out, I'm gonna deal
with it, it'll be all right.
But there, but having yoursupport, even when I don't deal
with it as well as I think I'mgoing to, I don't handle it as
well as I think I can, or?
I'm not as equipped to handle it, as I would like to feel like I
am your support when I come tothe acknowledgement of hey, you
(22:24):
can't do this by yourself, or orthere's some growth that has to
happen in order for you tohandle this yeah your support,
uh, and encouragement is reallyhelpful.
Just just even convert theconversations of being able to
be transparent with you and haveyou listen and be supportive
when I share my weaknesses andchallenges.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's I mean, that's huge, it is I like when you do
that, because sometimes you knowI I can offer, you know, some
kind of suggestions andsometimes it works, sometimes
you know it doesn't, butsometimes you just want me to
listen.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, and it brings us closer together.
Sometimes I want you to listen,sometimes I want you to tell me
how you feel, because hearinghow you feel helps to challenge
how I feel.
Maybe I'm overthinking, maybe Ihave the wrong perspective.
Yeah, maybe I'm overthinking,maybe I have the wrong
perspective.
So hearing you talk about ithelps to kind of bring up a
settledness, a balance and acalmness to me where I can think
(23:17):
, man, this is the biggestproblem ever, what am I going to
do?
And get stressed about it.
But then I talk to you and say,well, it's not as big as you're
making it out to be.
It may, yes, a big problem.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, it has to be dealt, dealt with, but maybe
it's not as hard as you think.
It is okay.
So number five is celebrateyour progress and stay resilient
.
I like that 100%.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Stay resilient 100%.
Yeah, we definitely got tocelebrate.
Yeah, couples need to learn tocelebrate.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think we didn't celebrate enough early on no, we
just started celebrating, wejust started yeah because we we
realize where we come from werealize where we started and
where we are now, and we are ina different place.
We are not the same two people.
We're so much better, but we'restill working every day every
day, you know because thechallenges don't stop um.
(24:05):
So we're just so we're betterabsolutely, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, so I'm all for that.
Celebrate, enjoy one anotherand you can celebrate, as you
just said, even while you'remaking progress.
Celebrate the progress, enjoywhere you are, enjoy who you're
becoming.
Yeah Right, like you said,looking back to all of us,
hopefully are growing in ourrelationships.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Growing in our lives.
We're talking about ministryand marriage, growing in all
those areas.
We celebrate on both sides ofthe spectrum.
Because we've grown on bothsides, we deal with the
challenges a whole lot betterand, uh, and we don't have
nearly as many problems togetheramong us as a result of life or
ministry.
It's just that calmness, thatpeace that's coming.
(24:48):
We celebrate that growth.
It's just that calmness, thatpeace that's coming.
We celebrate that growth.
It's a good thing, and so weencourage those that listen to
us Find the positive, don'tfocus on just the negative.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And you'll find a lot of reasons to celebrate where
you're going and where you comefrom.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
All right Sounds good .
Hopefully this helps some ofyou guys overcome different
challenges in your life, in yourmarriage.
Work together, support oneanother, be encouraging one
another.
Don't be your partner's enemy.
Be their teammate, be theirsupport, be the one they can
lean on to help navigate thedifferent challenges of life.
And I promise you, with god onyour side, nothing's impossible.
You can handle everythingthat's thrown your way, no
(25:29):
matter what angle it comes from.
You'll have, you'll handle it.
You'll survive if you sticktogether.
All right, thank you forjoining us today.
Got anything else?
That's it cool.
Listen, we look forward toseeing you.
Make sure you like subscribeand share this with somebody.
You think it'll help, and we'llsee you on next time, god bless
.
Hey, thank you for joining us,for doing it with the daniels,
(25:51):
if you want to.
God bless.
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