February 6, 2025 • 35 mins
Could the secret to a thriving marriage be forgiving "seven times seventy"? Imagine the freedom of releasing resentment and nurturing a relationship where daily forgiveness is the norm. In our latest episode, we invite you into our personal journey as we navigate the complexities of marital forgiveness. We share how embracing this biblical principle has transformed our lives, allowing us to let go of unmet expectations and cultivate a healthier partnership. Through humorous and heartfelt anecdotes, like the chaos of managing household duties when hosting guests, we explore how resentment can fester if not met with forgiveness.
Communication is the lifeblood of any marriage, but it's easier said than done. The episode unravels the art of empathetic dialogue over winning battles, shedding light on modern marital roles in dual-income households. We share our stories of transformation from a desire to be right to striving for understanding and compromise. Open communication and cooperation are vital in redefining roles to match contemporary lifestyles. We close with actionable insights and heartfelt takeaways, urging listeners to apply these lessons for transformative results. Stay connected with us for more wisdom to enrich your marriage and life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think about when the disciples asked Jesus well,
how often should we forgive?
And he told them seven times,70, right, I think the point he
was making there is.
I don't expect you to keepcount Exactly.
Let it go Like don't hold on tothings that are done to you.
Give forgiveness freely.
(00:20):
If forgiveness was money, hewould want us to splurge.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to Doing it With the Daniels, the podcast
where we navigate life, marriageand ministry.
I'm Charles.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And I'm Tisa.
Join us as we share insights,wisdom and practical advice to
strengthen your marriage,empower your life and enrich
your ministry.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Let's dive in together and discover the joys
of Doing it With the Daniels.
Hey, welcome to Doing it Withthe Daniels, where we help
couples get it on in life,marriage and ministry, and we're
so glad to have you join ustoday.
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
babe, what's going on ?
Excellent, how are you feeling?
I'm feeling pretty good today.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Good.
I'm feeling great today.
I was excited about theopportunity to share with those
watching and viewing our podcast.
I think it's going to be a goodone today.
It's going to help some couples, help people in general.
You know, I know we talk aboutcouple stuff, but there's a lot
of stuff I think is reallyhelpful in general that people
can take from our podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, in their everyday lives.
Whether you're married, singlewith kids, family, it's
something for everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Absolutely.
I know we focus a lot onmarriage but, like you said,
it's something for everyone yesuh, they can benefit even our,
our adult son yeah who haslistened.
He.
You know it was reallyinsightful for him and he said
there were some things heenjoyed listening to our
youngest son.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He's not gonna listen at all he doesn't care, right,
he know what's going on, but hejust don't care, but that's all
right.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But hey, what we're talking about today, today we're
going to tackle forgiveness oh,that's a good one.
It's a really good one, it's abig one.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I think a lot of people struggle with forgiveness
, whether you're married, single, just having relationships, you
know it's.
It's something that everybodyhas to deal with absolutely
that's 100.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I can remember I don't know when we made the
decision in our marriage, um, Idon't remember us getting that
in counseling Not that we didn't, I just can't remember our
counseling process, um, and andwhen we kind of decided in our
marriage that every day would bea day of forgiveness for us.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, I remember somebody told us that forgive
every day okay and I didn'tunderstand that.
You know, just being marriedearly on, um the beginning
stages of my marriage, I'm likeokay, what do you mean forgive
every day?
And so I remember that, whenthey told us that, I just kind
of held that in my mind likeokay, all right, not knowing
that I would really have toforgive every day yeah, I mean,
(02:43):
when you hear that young in yourmarriage and things are going
pretty good, or even if you'regoing through some type of
counseling, you just don't.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You don't think about the need to forgive your spouse
.
Every day you'd be like I lovethem, why would I need to
forgive them?
What?
What are they gonna do that'sgonna gonna cause me to forgive
them?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
every day.
You know, that was the thing Iwas like man, we're gonna have
something every day and it couldbe little things.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know, things happen so but when you live with
somebody every day things canhappen every day and you have to
be prepared to forgive everyday.
Yes, so yeah.
So I mean, how have you usedthat in your like, in this
marriage, in this relationship?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I don't know if I used it right in the
beginning, I could think of anincident where, when we first
started, when we first startedhaving guests over and they
would spend like the weekend orwhatever.
And you know, we had kids, wehad family, we're going to work,
we're doing stuff.
The boys have, you know,extracurricular activities.
We're heavily involved inchurch, so we're always to work,
we're doing stuff.
(03:44):
The boys have, you know, it'scritical activities.
We're heavily involved inchurch, so we're always busy,
always going.
And so I used to ask you tohelp with the, with the house
where we had people coming over,because you know how sometimes
you just straighten andsometimes you clean yeah and you
know, when you got somebodycoming over, you got a deep
clean, like you want cleanbaseboards.
You're just doing everything,like the whole nine, and so you
(04:08):
be like you ain't gotta do allthis this, you're just doing too
much, and you would do a littlesomething and then you would go
go in there and go to sleep andI was like he is leaving me to
do all this by myself and so.
I used to get so upset and itwould turn into and I don't
think I knew that I needed toforgive you for that then, but
(04:28):
it would turn into resentmentyeah, well, I guess the um it
started with unforgiveness.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It started with why is he doing this?
And I guess not letting that go, because if we talk about the
nature of forgiveness, thenature of forgiveness is about
letting go, and so you didn'tlet it go, you just kind of we
moved on, but you, you held onto it.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I don't think I acted out towards you or anything,
maybe initially initially alittle bit um, but I just I
can't, I don't know.
I guess I felt like I wasletting it go, but every time it
would happen again I would belike, okay, here we go again.
He's doing it again.
And so I was just, I would feelsome kind of way and each
(05:12):
incident to a list exactly and.
I was like okay, so this is whatI got to look forward to every
time we got somebody coming over.
This is what I have.
I have to do all of this, yeah,and so I felt alone in that.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I got you, I got you, and so with that you're saying
there was unforgiveness you weregetting ready to add to that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, then it led to resentment, and so that's
pushing me further away from you, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So you felt more.
You felt more of the resentmentthan really the focus on the
unforgiveness.
Okay, yeah.
And maybe and the reason I'msaying that sometimes I think
people don't necessarily call itunforgiveness, but they do
acknowledge the resentment.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
They're resentful, but they don't realize that
resentment is rooted inunforgiveness.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, so what else came out of that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Oh, it keeps going on and on.
So it's unforgiveness,resentment, bitterness.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So you were bitter towards me.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Mm-hmm.
Oh wait, ooh, yeah, then anger.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, then anger, okay, yeah, I mean
it's.
Yeah, it was bad yeah and but,but you weren't saying anything
about it I mean initially when Iasked you know when I would try
to talk to you about it.
I think it's all about how yousay and talk what you say and
how you approach things, and Ithink I wasn't approaching it in
the best way but even if wedidn't handle it through
(06:39):
communication initially, are yousaying that you went on, still
holding on to it?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
but we still function as a couple, as in our marriage
, and that's that's the pointI'm bringing out.
You can be married, moving onon smiling, going to church,
doing family stuff, taking careof business of your household,
and still unforgiveness be thereand it not get resolved.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, and that bitterness, that resentment is
all at work and it's affectingthe relationship, although it
doesn't look like it's a bigissue on the surface.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
What?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
does the Bible say it's the little on the surface,
it's the little foxes, it'sthose little undealt with,
unacknowledged things that weavoid, that erode the foundation
of healthy relationships,healthy marriages.
Yeah, so.
So when did so?
You listed unforgiveness,resentment, bitterness, anger.
When did you get to frustration?
When did you get to deliverance?
So you listed unforgiveness,resentment, bitterness, anger.
When did you get to frustration?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
When did you get to deliverance?
Well, I had to like take aself-evaluation of me, okay,
because I like for my house tolook a certain kind of way, and
so when I got home, it's like wegot kids right, so it's not
going to look perfect.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
We had two young kids at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Two boys at that time , and so in my mind I'm like
okay if somebody wants to stopby or you know, whatever, if
somebody's coming, the houseneeds to be, and it wasn't like
nasty or anything like that.
But you know, you just got stuffit looked lived in yeah but in
my mind I'm like it's supposedto be spotless all time, and so
when I would come home you knowwhen I'll come home from work or
anything like that I'd be likewhat y'all doing cleaning up.
(08:18):
And it just got to a place whenI was like, okay, I need to
chill out.
I need to really chill out, Ineed to get over myself and then
, as you get into the word ofGod and find out what the word
is saying, then that helped metoo, because I didn't want to be
a nagging wife.
I didn't want to be acomplaining wife.
I didn't want you to feel likeit was better to be on the
(08:39):
rooftop or some men don't comehome.
They always finding somewhereto go.
They out hanging out at the bar, they at their friend's house
watching the game.
They're just doing everythingthat they can to not come home,
because what?
The wife is always naggingabout something?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
they don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, men don't want to hear that and so I had to,
like, really look at me and findout, okay, why this is just
small.
It's small, just minute, andit's not a big deal.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And so once I learned to calm down and then let God
help me through his word, Ithink that was the biggest thing
yeah, yeah, I think that's huge, just looking, listening to you
and then some of the othercouples that were able to offer
guidance and advice to, I think,about a woman I spoke to who
went through a divorce and afterthat divorce, years after just,
(09:29):
I had the opportunity to askher, you know, what led to the
to the divorce seemed like itwas a good marriage, good
relationship, what made youbecause I think the woman, if I
remember correctly initiated thedivorce.
What led you to that, you know,was my question and she said
something.
She said I never really forgavehim for things that happened
(09:52):
early in the marriage.
So they were married for over 10years I don't know exactly,
maybe close to 20 years, butthings happened early in the
marriage that she said she shemoved on but never really got
over and really forgave him for,and I guess she hit a place in
(10:13):
her life where she said I don'twant to be here anymore because
you've held on to that.
I think that progress youmentioned unforgiveness,
resentment, bitterness, angerhad all built up and it hit a
place of.
And then so you got to imagineyou have your normal
disagreements that have happenedover those years and it's
(10:35):
finally one day, because allthat stuff is there building up,
you hit a place where you'relike I don't want to do this
anymore, not realizing thatthose things have been eroding
the marriage all those years,all those previous years, before
she ever filed for divorce.
And I think this is why it's soimportant that people pay
attention to the little foxes,these little things that you
(10:56):
think, oh, I can just get over.
Because that's what weoftentimes say, that's what we
tell people just get over it.
Yeah, and that's what we tendto think, and we put people in
that category when they havetrauma in their life and they
want to talk about it.
We say, oh, you should just justget over it.
But the reality is that gettingover it, or really our term of
getting over it, really meansjust move on yeah and that's,
(11:17):
that's not getting over, that'snot really letting it go, that's
not forgiveness, yeah, that'snot really being free, freeing
yourself and freeing the otherperson from what you think they
deserve.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I yeah, and I didn't want to grow up.
I didn't want my kids to growup always hearing their mom
hollering and nagging aboutclean up your room, clean this
up, you know.
And I just didn't want that.
And I think a lot of men theydon't like for women to yell
because their mother yelled atthem and so I didn't want, I
(11:48):
didn't want all that.
So I was like I gotta reallylook at me hey, it's an
adjustment it is.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's an adjustment but we we have.
We have some steps that we canlook at and we can try to give
to to those listening and try tohelp them, those who are trying
to navigate through forgiveness, because forgiveness is not
easy no it's not easy, but itcan be done and it's a choice,
and what I often tell people isjust in general, whether it's a
(12:14):
choice, and what I often tellpeople is just in general,
whether it's relationships orother, or if it's not a marital
relationship, forgiveness is.
It is a choice.
You have a choice whether ornot you forgive, but as
believers, we have to remove thechoice and understand that
we've been commanded by our Lordand Savior, jesus Christ, to
forgive.
And it's not just forgivingpeople on the outside.
(12:34):
It's forgiving your spouse.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yes, yes, it starts at home.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, yeah you got charity begins at home.
In other words, you're gonnalove people.
Love right at home, yeah, andthat love should involve
forgiveness exactly I like thatthat's good yeah, so what?
What is when?
When people are dealing withtheir spouses, what?
What's the first thing theyshould really tackle or look at
when it comes to forgiveness?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I think the first thing you should acknowledge the
hurt.
That's what I feel like atfirst you need.
So I had to acknowledge that,that I was hurt.
You know, I felt like he don'tcare nothing about me, you know
what I gotta do, and all of this.
So, um, I had to acknowledgethat and I had to come to you,
and I was.
I had to be able to talk to youabout what I was feeling, why I
(13:20):
was feeling the way I wasfeeling, and and tried to just
get it out instead of holding itin yeah, and I think on the
flip side of that, I had torespect how you felt and not
judge how you felt based on howI felt just to keep those lines
of communication open.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Right, because I think you felt, and not judge
how you felt based on how I feltjust to keep those lines of
communication open.
Right Because initially I waslike man God, this is nothing,
let that go.
But but I had to kind of comeout of that and listen to you
empathetically because otherwiseit just it.
(13:51):
It minimizes your feelings anddevalues them, which creates
further damage to therelationship like when you would
be like this, our house, justlook, lived in.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I'm like, but that's not the point.
I'll, you know, had my way ofthe way I wanted it done and
it's like you wouldn't move intoyou weren't doing what I wanted
you to do so I was like lord,what am I gonna do?
But I just did it myself, didit myself, did it and was
resenting you all while I'mcleaning and doing whatever I
was doing.
But I just realized it's sosmall.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, and you know, just through our process I'm
better now.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And I see the value of helping you, of being that
support, and that's a part ofthe two becoming one and we had
to.
I had to grow to that and I hadto grow to respect your view on
it, because, although I may nothave your view on the extent to
which you want to do it, I hadto respect that.
This is my wife, this is herhome and there's a certain level
of representation she wants tohave within her home.
(14:58):
And I need to be supportive ofthat, even if I don I don't
agree fully, like I think thehome should be clean, yeah, but
man, we ain't gotta bleacheverything down, and I mean you
know, it's like you said deepcleaning.
But hey, it's all good.
But you know, we we grew tothat yeah so I understand now
and I value you enough torespect how you feel yeah and to
(15:18):
be a part of that to supportthat.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It's gotten a whole lot better yes I think, so what
else?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
what's the next thing that that we need to give them?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
number two is own your part.
I think that's really good, soI had to look and own my, my
part, and you had to look andown my part.
And you had to look and ownyour part.
But do you understand what yourpart was?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, I do now I didn't.
At that time I mean I feel likeat that time that's something
you own.
But I see now where my part is,because here's the thing is in
forgiveness.
It's hard to feel, I mean it'seasy to feel like that's the
other person's problem.
But when you're in a marriage,if your spouse has an issue and
(16:00):
you're involved with that, it'syour issue as well.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It's just like with infidelity couples that we have
helped through infidelity.
The partner who committed theinfidelity obviously feels like
yes.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I'm guilty.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I'm wrong, I deserve whatever.
And then the other partner isoften like yeah, you, you did
everything and I'm the victim inthis, and we have to sit down
and talk to them and tell them.
As we begin to unpack this, youmay find that you're not as big
of a victim as you think youare.
It takes two it takes two andyou played a part in it, but you
(16:37):
just don't see it right, yeahso I think, with that, with what
you said, with this, this parttwo of owning your part, um, I
think in any type of conflictresolution it requires both
parties to see themselves in theproblem where they contributed
to the problem, not saying youmay not contribute a major
portion, but you played a roleyeah in that, yeah, and even if
(17:02):
you didn't play a role in in theinfraction, you play a role in
the solution and you have to seeyour place in that.
one of the things when I was uh,as we started to help more
couples who had dealt withinfidelity and uh, uh and I
began to study and do someresearch on it, one of the
things that I found was the thethe partner who feels like they
(17:22):
are the victim, the partner whodid not commit the infidelity uh
often bears the responsibilityof the relationship healing and
the other partner being able tomove forward, healing and the
other partner being able to moveforward.
So your role is ensuring themwe can go forward, because until
you decide that you're willingto go forward, they can't move
(17:42):
forward from this yeah so if therelationship stalls or fails,
that's your part yeah that'syour role and I'm not.
You know, we believescripturally that if it for the
case of infidelity, um, if twoindividuals decide to part, they
can yeah on biblical grounds.
However, I think what has to beconsidered even before we get
(18:05):
to I got biblical right to leaveyou.
Before you get to that, I thinkyou have to explore forgiveness
, yes, and reconciliation first.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
First, and that's what we always push right, and
because a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
They cheated.
I'm leaving.
You have a right to leave ifthat's your choice, but before
you run out, because this is notjust a divorce.
This is a breaking of covenant,this is a separating of lives,
this is all of that.
Children involved and we won'tget into how all that plays, and
I think we should do a wholeother podcast dealing with
divorce.
Yeah, but before you do that,you may find it easier.
(18:40):
You may find it easier.
Mm-hmm To face forgiveness thanit is to face divorce.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Usually couples that and I don't know why we're
talking about this, but usuallycouples that go through that
their bond is stronger andthey're closer.
And I'm not saying it's a goodthing because they have to work
and they have to fight to get tothat place right.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But usually they come out like on the other side and
it's really good.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
A lot of times, times .
You know what I, what I've seen.
They have to pull the mask off,like you really got to go ahead
and get naked with each otheryeah be honest, be open and
really deal with what needs tobe dealt with yeah, that's good,
yeah, and I think that's whatmakes that bond strong, so we on
number three number threenumber three is seek
understanding, not victory oh,that's good did you seek
(19:30):
understanding with me?
not early on.
I wanted victory.
I wanted to.
I wanted to be right.
I wanted to be right.
I wanted you to see things myway.
I want you to get on board withme and just say you right and
go along with it, uh.
But the reality is that thatthat I wasn't right, yeah, and I
(19:52):
had to acknowledge that Iwasn't right.
I felt I felt I'm entitled toan opinion yeah but in a
marriage, my opinion can'toverride your feelings right and
what you need for me as ahusband, and that's what I had
to mature to yeah
Speaker 2 (20:09):
yeah it took some time, but we got there
absolutely hey.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So so what do you think?
Where were you with that?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
with seeking understanding.
Yeah, I don't think I wasseeking for no understanding and
I was like this just makessense.
You know, this is what we needto do, um, but um, I think for
me, I just realized that itwasn't a big deal.
It wasn't that big of a dealand um, and so now I enjoy doing
whatever I need to do aroundthe house and try not to nag as
(20:38):
much.
Um, just kind of say, hey, weneed to do xyz.
Or if I'm running out and wegot people coming, can you and I
just try to list out, well,well, I didn't get a chance to
do this, can you take this anddo this and do this, and you
know, for me while I'm gone, orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I think we both had to learn to listen to one
another empathetically.
That constantly comes up Listenempathetically, hear one
another and make the necessarycompromises, which is a big part
of working together.
I had to give on how I felt,you had to give on how you felt,
and we found a middle ground,and that middle ground was the
(21:16):
house does not have to bespotless, but it does need to be
clean beyond what I may thinkit needs to be.
So we met in the middle and itworked.
Yeah, but I think you kind ofscarred from your childhood,
though no, I wouldn't reallyscar from childhood, I wouldn't
really scar, I think I just keptforming this opinion, then you
(21:37):
know so a lot of us men havethis view of.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That's your job.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, and that's just .
You think that's the wiferesponsibility.
She gonna cook, she gonna clean.
So it's like I'll help, but Iain't helping too much.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
we need to do a podcast on rose or something,
because I think a lot of peoplestruggle with that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, definitely.
I don't think they reallyconsider Rose before they get
married.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I'm the husband, you the wife.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Let's get married and it's usually what we see
growing up as children is whatwe feel like.
This is what my life is goingto be like.
I didn't see my mom for me, andmom was the one who cooked
clean, took care of the house,washed clothes and all that
stuff, and they probably didn'thave to do much until they got
old enough to do things on theirown.
And so when they get a wife,and then the wife saying you
(22:21):
know, you need to help me, oryou didn't, you ain't doing this
, or I need you to keep thisclean, and so they like what is
this?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
yeah, I've been at work all day making money.
What you talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
My place should be on the table yeah, the house
should be clean when I get therewhat you mean.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
You want me to do it.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And what you got?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
some uh, some people say these modernized women
modern, these modern day womendon't want the man to cook and
clean.
What's wrong with you, some?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
men enjoy cooking I.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I think those are traditional roles from a time
past and if it works for couplestoday, great.
If it does not work where wehave two parent households I
mean two working parents thatmay not work together.
Yeah, you got to work togetherto make it work.
I mean, and now, because of theeconomy you got, you definitely
got two pairs working toprovide, just to keep up work.
I mean, and now, because of theeconomy, you got, you
definitely got two pairs workingto provide, just to keep up
(23:12):
pace with what's going on?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
yeah, because you know back.
You know my grandparents areold, like 90s and 80s, so they
grew up different.
My granddad went out and heworked, but my grandma pretty
much cooked, took care of thehouse and made his food and,
like he don't know how to go inthe kitchen, do nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
She's a real woman.
Is that what it is?
Is?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
that what it is she's a real wife don't do that.
You're gonna make a lot ofthese women mad, uh, but that's
like you said.
That's what happened back thenand that's what was going on
back then, and sometimes I feellike you grow up seeing that and
so now trying to figure out,okay, what's my role, what's his
role, what's my responsibility,what's his responsibility, and
(23:53):
it's kind of all getting kind of, you know, misconstrued and
yeah people got their own viewsand then we get together kind of
clash and that's what we tellcouples define your own roles.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Do what works for you too, there's no biblical role,
ideally, where it says thisperson has to do this, this
person has to do that in themodern age, and so you, that
those couples, have to cometogether on what works for them
and do that exactly.
Come on, let's keep going.
What's?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
all right, so number four was extend grace extend
grace.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Come on, I love that.
More grace more grace, moregrace.
Buy me a t-shirt I think that'sabsolutely what has to happen.
Extend grace to your partnerbecause, um, I mean you got to
consider yourself not.
This goes straight biblical youknow, if bible says if you
(24:48):
don't forgive your brother andyour sister, yeah, your heavenly
father will not forgive youthen, beyond that, you got to
consider what god has forgivenyou from yeah and I'm not trying
to be preaching here, but theseprinciples of biblical
forgiveness and what the bibleteaches us, as believers extend
beyond just being a goodchristian yeah it's a part of
being a good husband and a goodwife.
(25:11):
You got to remember the samegrace you want gift to your
spouse.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
So if your spouse is doing something that you want,
you don't want to forgive themfor.
You want to have bitterness andresentment.
Consider yourself what wouldyou want?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Exactly Right.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
How would you want them to respond to you?
I want forgiveness from you forwhatever I do, I want grace for
my humanity right.
So if, if that's what I wantfrom you, I should extend that
same thing to you.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah and that's as believers going outside, of just
husband and wives.
But in your everyday life youknow you just you need to
forgive and have grace forpeople, because usually you want
that grace for yourself, yeah,but you don't want to freely
give it to others, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I think about when the disciples asked Jesus well,
how often should we forgive?
And he?
He told them seven times, 70.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So what's that?
Four hundred and ninety times?
Four hundred and ninety timesyou should forgive Right Now.
I think the point he was makingthere is I don't expect you to
keep count exactly.
Let it go like don't hold on tothings that are done, you be.
Give forgiveness freely.
If forgiveness was money, hewould want us to splurge that's
(26:24):
good he wanted to just give it.
So when you think about yourspouse, forgiveness is something
you should have stored upreserves ready to give freely,
even if you don't get an apology.
Yes, even if you don't get anapology, because forgiveness
isn't based on receiving anapology.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Sometimes you'll never hear.
You know I'm sorry or anything,and you just got to be able to
forgive a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So get scratched, that list, that mental list ask
god to erase it.
Yes, erase it from your heart.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, let your spouse go for whatever they did, even
if you don't feel like theylearned their lesson that's what
it's about people want topeople, want to make sure they
feel it, want to make sure youlearn, and then sometimes people
want to just hurt you becausethey they're hurting and so I
want you to feel what I felt.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, so and they may not feel anything because they
added maybe you need just getover it.
But this is what these stepsare about, because you don't
just get over.
It's about acknowledging, walk.
Acknowledging it, walkingthrough it and dealing with it
in a healthy way.
So, as your marriage goesforward, the one who's holding
the offense doesn't always wantyou to feel what they feel and
(27:38):
the other one doesn't look atthe person offended saying why
don't you just get over it?
But they work together to moveforward.
You be healed from the offenseand I can learn to respect how
you feel and learn not to offendyou in that area.
Yeah, because just getting overand moving on or just hey.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I'm sorry what are you?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
sorry, we had that conversation.
What are you sorry?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
for what are you sorry for?
I think that's good, becausehow are you gonna know what not
to do again if I don't talk?
If we don't talk and get it outand I tell you you hurt me, or
when you did or you said xyz, Imean you gotta have conversation
because most men do that.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
They see their wives have an attitude, they're in a
mood or whatever, and they justcome in look, whatever I did,
I'm.
I'm sorry, I would just you'dbe like you don't even know what
you did you need to be able totell them what they did.
I do that now because you usedto do that.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, you know, whatever, I'm sorry like no, we
need to talk.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I need to tell you this is what you said.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
This is what you did hurt my feelings so and so I'm
better at that I.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I think I come to you a lot more you do, and I
appreciate it, because otherwiseI just got to see you feeling
how you feel and I just pop inwith I don't know what I did,
but I apologize, and you whatyou're apologizing for if I
don't know what I did, but Iapologize.
What you apologizing for if youdon't know what you did, well,
whatever it is.
Well, you going to tell me Nah,you should know.
Well, I don't know.
So I'm sorry, but it worksbetter when you tell me we talk
(29:02):
through it in a healthy way.
Yeah, and we grow from it.
So I don't repeat that samething, exactly from it.
So I don't repeat that samething, exactly.
All right, come on what's thenext one?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
that's good, okay.
Number five commit to ongoingcommunication.
I think that's a good one yeahyou gotta be have.
You gotta have opencommunication, you gotta be able
to talk through um difficultconversations and um and be able
to get each other's feedback onwhy you feel the way you feel,
and sometimes you know it's justdifferent views.
(29:29):
On why I see something this way.
You see something you knowTotally different, like I don't
think that's a big deal, youknow, and so Just talking
through that, I think it helps.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I agree Number one conflict resolution is not a one
time thing.
No, and in order to have thatcommunication cannot be a one
time thing or communicationaround conflict resolution can
be a one time thing, you have tocommit to being to ongoing
communication, saying every timesomething happens, we're going
(29:59):
to talk and we're going to workthrough it and we're going to
see this as an opportunity toget better in this area of our
relationship not where I've seena lot of people go.
They see it as an opportunity toshut down yeah where, okay,
we've talked about this before,you just don't get it, and so
they stop talking, because we'vebeen there where it's like just
(30:19):
just move on just don't sayanything, yeah, or you're not
gonna change, no way.
So why I keep saying that it'sbecause you don't know if you'll
ever change, but you just keepsaying it and you don't just say
it to change them, right youjust say it, tell them how you
feel how long did it take me tochange in some aspects of our
marriage long time some stuffain't even changed, some stuff
(30:42):
still the same.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm saying the same thing.
I just learned not to harp oncertain things.
It's just not even worth it.
You know, the things that youknow in my younger years that I
was like kind of talking about,I ain't talking about that, no
more.
That's child, that's old.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
We had to grow, but we grew through our
communication.
Yeah, we kept the lines ofcommunication open.
Nobody went.
We kept the lines ofcommunication open.
Nobody went into shutdown mode.
I mean, if we did, it was short, yeah, and we came back
together because we don't evenlike the feeling of not
communicating.
You know, everybody said weattach it at the hill, so you
know we're always together.
So for us to always be together, we have to have open, honest,
(31:18):
healthy communication, becausebeing close, like we are, yeah,
creates problems.
We, we, we offend each other butwe work through it, yeah and
and because we're able to talk,and I think that improvement
over the years has made it a lotbetter, a lot easier.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
We get over stuff quicker, we deal with stuff
faster, we don't avoid it, wetalk about it, yeah, and we
don't sweat the small stuff, youknow, and I think we had to
learn that in the in thebeginning, where the enemy would
try to, you know, creep incertain places, certain areas,
and we just had to reallyrealize that stuff and get
better with communication,talking, just all of that yeah
(31:56):
and so that has been a real,real game changer for us.
100 growth.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, well what?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
what do you think today?
I think I think we did.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I think today was good.
You think today, I think we did, I think today was good.
You like today?
Yeah, I think it's really good.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think we got two podcasts out of today.
We got some more topics.
Yeah, we got some more topics.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
But it was really good and I hope those listening
really heard our heart on whatwe're trying to tell them.
No-transcript.
(32:35):
Ask him to help you to haveopen, honest conversations with
your spouse and to move forwardwith your partner and don't
don't be tired to what, what,what happened it happened, you
have to accept that it happened,acknowledge it.
both parties work on movingforward and not repeating those
same things so that you end upin this cycle of offense or
(32:57):
unforgiveness and bitterness,resentment, frustration and and
it silently erodes the marriageuntil one day the marriage may
end up dissolving as a resultand everybody looks and says how
did we get here?
Well, it started with thatlittle stuff that was never
dealt with.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And so hopefully this will help you deal with it, one
of the things we want toencourage you guys to do.
As you're listening to us,there are some links in the
description on this page to twobooks that we've shared
Communicating Connect and alsoElimin in your marriage.
Please, I encourage you to getthose books, read them.
They will be of great value andbenefit to you and give you
(33:37):
further steps and moreinformation that you can go and
implement.
Any resource guide book we putout is about giving you
practical steps or things youcan apply immediately to help
improve your relationship.
That's what we want to seehappen with couples, with
marriages and with thoseindividuals that just want to be
better and have a successfulmarriage.
I love our relationship yes, Ido too but we keep getting
(33:59):
better yeah, it's not, it's notperfect but it's we, we had a
situation just the other day,and we acknowledged what we
didn't like about it on bothends, and even in that we have
learned to celebrate our wins.
We say well, we, we're betterthough yeah you know, yeah, okay
, I see that I work on that.
He was like I work on my end.
It was like but we're a lotbetter than we used to be yeah,
(34:21):
so you can celebrate your winseven while acknowledging the
flaws in the areas ofimprovement exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, that was good.
Good, you got anything else,that's it.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Come on, that's a bit awesome.
Hopefully you guys grabbed whatwe said today.
Take it, apply it.
It will change your life.
Listen, we can't wait to seeyou.
Until next time, share thispodcast, don't forget to like
and subscribe and we will seeyou next week.
God bless you.
Hey, thank you for joining us,for doing it with the Daniels.
If you want to keep up witheverything going on on our
channel, don't forget to like,comment, subscribe and share
(34:54):
this podcast.
Absolutely.
We'll see you next time.
I think about when the disciples asked Jesus well,
how often should we forgive?
And he told them seven times,70, right, I think the point he
was making there is.
I don't expect you to keepcount Exactly.
Let it go Like don't hold on tothings that are done to you.
Give forgiveness freely.
(00:20):
If forgiveness was money, hewould want us to splurge.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to Doing it With the Daniels, the podcast
where we navigate life, marriageand ministry.
I'm Charles.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And I'm Tisa.
Join us as we share insights,wisdom and practical advice to
strengthen your marriage,empower your life and enrich
your ministry.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Let's dive in together and discover the joys
of Doing it With the Daniels.
Hey, welcome to Doing it Withthe Daniels, where we help
couples get it on in life,marriage and ministry, and we're
so glad to have you join ustoday.
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
babe, what's going on ?
Excellent, how are you feeling?
I'm feeling pretty good today.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Good.
I'm feeling great today.
I was excited about theopportunity to share with those
watching and viewing our podcast.
I think it's going to be a goodone today.
It's going to help some couples, help people in general.
You know, I know we talk aboutcouple stuff, but there's a lot
of stuff I think is reallyhelpful in general that people
can take from our podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, in their everyday lives.
Whether you're married, singlewith kids, family, it's
something for everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Absolutely.
I know we focus a lot onmarriage but, like you said,
it's something for everyone yesuh, they can benefit even our,
our adult son yeah who haslistened.
He.
You know it was reallyinsightful for him and he said
there were some things heenjoyed listening to our
youngest son.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He's not gonna listen at all he doesn't care, right,
he know what's going on, but hejust don't care, but that's all
right.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But hey, what we're talking about today, today we're
going to tackle forgiveness oh,that's a good one.
It's a really good one, it's abig one.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I think a lot of people struggle with forgiveness
, whether you're married, single, just having relationships, you
know it's.
It's something that everybodyhas to deal with absolutely
that's 100.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I can remember I don't know when we made the
decision in our marriage, um, Idon't remember us getting that
in counseling Not that we didn't, I just can't remember our
counseling process, um, and andwhen we kind of decided in our
marriage that every day would bea day of forgiveness for us.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well, I remember somebody told us that forgive
every day okay and I didn'tunderstand that.
You know, just being marriedearly on, um the beginning
stages of my marriage, I'm likeokay, what do you mean forgive
every day?
And so I remember that, whenthey told us that, I just kind
of held that in my mind likeokay, all right, not knowing
that I would really have toforgive every day yeah, I mean,
(02:43):
when you hear that young in yourmarriage and things are going
pretty good, or even if you'regoing through some type of
counseling, you just don't.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You don't think about the need to forgive your spouse
.
Every day you'd be like I lovethem, why would I need to
forgive them?
What?
What are they gonna do that'sgonna gonna cause me to forgive
them?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
every day.
You know, that was the thing Iwas like man, we're gonna have
something every day and it couldbe little things.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know, things happen so but when you live with
somebody every day things canhappen every day and you have to
be prepared to forgive everyday.
Yes, so yeah.
So I mean, how have you usedthat in your like, in this
marriage, in this relationship?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I don't know if I used it right in the
beginning, I could think of anincident where, when we first
started, when we first startedhaving guests over and they
would spend like the weekend orwhatever.
And you know, we had kids, wehad family, we're going to work,
we're doing stuff.
The boys have, you know,extracurricular activities.
We're heavily involved inchurch, so we're always to work,
we're doing stuff.
(03:44):
The boys have, you know, it'scritical activities.
We're heavily involved inchurch, so we're always busy,
always going.
And so I used to ask you tohelp with the, with the house
where we had people coming over,because you know how sometimes
you just straighten andsometimes you clean yeah and you
know, when you got somebodycoming over, you got a deep
clean, like you want cleanbaseboards.
You're just doing everything,like the whole nine, and so you
(04:08):
be like you ain't gotta do allthis this, you're just doing too
much, and you would do a littlesomething and then you would go
go in there and go to sleep andI was like he is leaving me to
do all this by myself and so.
I used to get so upset and itwould turn into and I don't
think I knew that I needed toforgive you for that then, but
(04:28):
it would turn into resentmentyeah, well, I guess the um it
started with unforgiveness.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It started with why is he doing this?
And I guess not letting that go, because if we talk about the
nature of forgiveness, thenature of forgiveness is about
letting go, and so you didn'tlet it go, you just kind of we
moved on, but you, you held onto it.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I don't think I acted out towards you or anything,
maybe initially initially alittle bit um, but I just I
can't, I don't know.
I guess I felt like I wasletting it go, but every time it
would happen again I would belike, okay, here we go again.
He's doing it again.
And so I was just, I would feelsome kind of way and each
(05:12):
incident to a list exactly and.
I was like okay, so this is whatI got to look forward to every
time we got somebody coming over.
This is what I have.
I have to do all of this, yeah,and so I felt alone in that.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I got you, I got you, and so with that you're saying
there was unforgiveness you weregetting ready to add to that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, then it led to resentment, and so that's
pushing me further away from you, right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So you felt more.
You felt more of the resentmentthan really the focus on the
unforgiveness.
Okay, yeah.
And maybe and the reason I'msaying that sometimes I think
people don't necessarily call itunforgiveness, but they do
acknowledge the resentment.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
They're resentful, but they don't realize that
resentment is rooted inunforgiveness.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, so what else came out of that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Oh, it keeps going on and on.
So it's unforgiveness,resentment, bitterness.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So you were bitter towards me.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Mm-hmm.
Oh wait, ooh, yeah, then anger.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, then anger, okay, yeah, I mean
it's.
Yeah, it was bad yeah and but,but you weren't saying anything
about it I mean initially when Iasked you know when I would try
to talk to you about it.
I think it's all about how yousay and talk what you say and
how you approach things, and Ithink I wasn't approaching it in
the best way but even if wedidn't handle it through
(06:39):
communication initially, are yousaying that you went on, still
holding on to it?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
but we still function as a couple, as in our marriage
, and that's that's the pointI'm bringing out.
You can be married, moving onon smiling, going to church,
doing family stuff, taking careof business of your household,
and still unforgiveness be thereand it not get resolved.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, and that bitterness, that resentment is
all at work and it's affectingthe relationship, although it
doesn't look like it's a bigissue on the surface.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
What?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
does the Bible say it's the little on the surface,
it's the little foxes, it'sthose little undealt with,
unacknowledged things that weavoid, that erode the foundation
of healthy relationships,healthy marriages.
Yeah, so.
So when did so?
You listed unforgiveness,resentment, bitterness, anger.
When did you get to frustration?
When did you get to deliverance?
So you listed unforgiveness,resentment, bitterness, anger.
When did you get to frustration?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
When did you get to deliverance?
Well, I had to like take aself-evaluation of me, okay,
because I like for my house tolook a certain kind of way, and
so when I got home, it's like wegot kids right, so it's not
going to look perfect.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
We had two young kids at that time.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Two boys at that time , and so in my mind I'm like
okay if somebody wants to stopby or you know, whatever, if
somebody's coming, the houseneeds to be, and it wasn't like
nasty or anything like that.
But you know, you just got stuffit looked lived in yeah but in
my mind I'm like it's supposedto be spotless all time, and so
when I would come home you knowwhen I'll come home from work or
anything like that I'd be likewhat y'all doing cleaning up.
(08:18):
And it just got to a place whenI was like, okay, I need to
chill out.
I need to really chill out, Ineed to get over myself and then
, as you get into the word ofGod and find out what the word
is saying, then that helped metoo, because I didn't want to be
a nagging wife.
I didn't want to be acomplaining wife.
I didn't want you to feel likeit was better to be on the
(08:39):
rooftop or some men don't comehome.
They always finding somewhereto go.
They out hanging out at the bar, they at their friend's house
watching the game.
They're just doing everythingthat they can to not come home,
because what?
The wife is always naggingabout something?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
they don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, men don't want to hear that and so I had to,
like, really look at me and findout, okay, why this is just
small.
It's small, just minute, andit's not a big deal.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
And so once I learned to calm down and then let God
help me through his word, Ithink that was the biggest thing
yeah, yeah, I think that's huge, just looking, listening to you
and then some of the othercouples that were able to offer
guidance and advice to, I think,about a woman I spoke to who
went through a divorce and afterthat divorce, years after just,
(09:29):
I had the opportunity to askher, you know, what led to the
to the divorce seemed like itwas a good marriage, good
relationship, what made youbecause I think the woman, if I
remember correctly initiated thedivorce.
What led you to that, you know,was my question and she said
something.
She said I never really forgavehim for things that happened
(09:52):
early in the marriage.
So they were married for over 10years I don't know exactly,
maybe close to 20 years, butthings happened early in the
marriage that she said she shemoved on but never really got
over and really forgave him for,and I guess she hit a place in
(10:13):
her life where she said I don'twant to be here anymore because
you've held on to that.
I think that progress youmentioned unforgiveness,
resentment, bitterness, angerhad all built up and it hit a
place of.
And then so you got to imagineyou have your normal
disagreements that have happenedover those years and it's
(10:35):
finally one day, because allthat stuff is there building up,
you hit a place where you'relike I don't want to do this
anymore, not realizing thatthose things have been eroding
the marriage all those years,all those previous years, before
she ever filed for divorce.
And I think this is why it's soimportant that people pay
attention to the little foxes,these little things that you
(10:56):
think, oh, I can just get over.
Because that's what weoftentimes say, that's what we
tell people just get over it.
Yeah, and that's what we tendto think, and we put people in
that category when they havetrauma in their life and they
want to talk about it.
We say, oh, you should just justget over it.
But the reality is that gettingover it, or really our term of
getting over it, really meansjust move on yeah and that's,
(11:17):
that's not getting over, that'snot really letting it go, that's
not forgiveness, yeah, that'snot really being free, freeing
yourself and freeing the otherperson from what you think they
deserve.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I yeah, and I didn't want to grow up.
I didn't want my kids to growup always hearing their mom
hollering and nagging aboutclean up your room, clean this
up, you know.
And I just didn't want that.
And I think a lot of men theydon't like for women to yell
because their mother yelled atthem and so I didn't want, I
(11:48):
didn't want all that.
So I was like I gotta reallylook at me hey, it's an
adjustment it is.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's an adjustment but we we have.
We have some steps that we canlook at and we can try to give
to to those listening and try tohelp them, those who are trying
to navigate through forgiveness, because forgiveness is not
easy no it's not easy, but itcan be done and it's a choice,
and what I often tell people isjust in general, whether it's a
(12:14):
choice, and what I often tellpeople is just in general,
whether it's relationships orother, or if it's not a marital
relationship, forgiveness is.
It is a choice.
You have a choice whether ornot you forgive, but as
believers, we have to remove thechoice and understand that
we've been commanded by our Lordand Savior, jesus Christ, to
forgive.
And it's not just forgivingpeople on the outside.
(12:34):
It's forgiving your spouse.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yes, yes, it starts at home.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, yeah you got charity begins at home.
In other words, you're gonnalove people.
Love right at home, yeah, andthat love should involve
forgiveness exactly I like thatthat's good yeah, so what?
What is when?
When people are dealing withtheir spouses, what?
What's the first thing theyshould really tackle or look at
when it comes to forgiveness?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I think the first thing you should acknowledge the
hurt.
That's what I feel like atfirst you need.
So I had to acknowledge that,that I was hurt.
You know, I felt like he don'tcare nothing about me, you know
what I gotta do, and all of this.
So, um, I had to acknowledgethat and I had to come to you,
and I was.
I had to be able to talk to youabout what I was feeling, why I
(13:20):
was feeling the way I wasfeeling, and and tried to just
get it out instead of holding itin yeah, and I think on the
flip side of that, I had torespect how you felt and not
judge how you felt based on howI felt just to keep those lines
of communication open.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Right, because I think you felt, and not judge
how you felt based on how I feltjust to keep those lines of
communication open.
Right Because initially I waslike man God, this is nothing,
let that go.
But but I had to kind of comeout of that and listen to you
empathetically because otherwiseit just it.
(13:51):
It minimizes your feelings anddevalues them, which creates
further damage to therelationship like when you would
be like this, our house, justlook, lived in.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I'm like, but that's not the point.
I'll, you know, had my way ofthe way I wanted it done and
it's like you wouldn't move intoyou weren't doing what I wanted
you to do so I was like lord,what am I gonna do?
But I just did it myself, didit myself, did it and was
resenting you all while I'mcleaning and doing whatever I
was doing.
But I just realized it's sosmall.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, and you know, just through our process I'm
better now.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And I see the value of helping you, of being that
support, and that's a part ofthe two becoming one and we had
to.
I had to grow to that and I hadto grow to respect your view on
it, because, although I may nothave your view on the extent to
which you want to do it, I hadto respect that.
This is my wife, this is herhome and there's a certain level
of representation she wants tohave within her home.
(14:58):
And I need to be supportive ofthat, even if I don I don't
agree fully, like I think thehome should be clean, yeah, but
man, we ain't gotta bleacheverything down, and I mean you
know, it's like you said deepcleaning.
But hey, it's all good.
But you know, we we grew tothat yeah so I understand now
and I value you enough torespect how you feel yeah and to
(15:18):
be a part of that to supportthat.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It's gotten a whole lot better yes I think, so what
else?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
what's the next thing that that we need to give them?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
number two is own your part.
I think that's really good, soI had to look and own my, my
part, and you had to look andown my part.
And you had to look and ownyour part.
But do you understand what yourpart was?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, I do now I didn't.
At that time I mean I feel likeat that time that's something
you own.
But I see now where my part is,because here's the thing is in
forgiveness.
It's hard to feel, I mean it'seasy to feel like that's the
other person's problem.
But when you're in a marriage,if your spouse has an issue and
(16:00):
you're involved with that, it'syour issue as well.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It's just like with infidelity couples that we have
helped through infidelity.
The partner who committed theinfidelity obviously feels like
yes.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I'm guilty.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I'm wrong, I deserve whatever.
And then the other partner isoften like yeah, you, you did
everything and I'm the victim inthis, and we have to sit down
and talk to them and tell them.
As we begin to unpack this, youmay find that you're not as big
of a victim as you think youare.
It takes two it takes two andyou played a part in it, but you
(16:37):
just don't see it right, yeahso I think, with that, with what
you said, with this, this parttwo of owning your part, um, I
think in any type of conflictresolution it requires both
parties to see themselves in theproblem where they contributed
to the problem, not saying youmay not contribute a major
portion, but you played a roleyeah in that, yeah, and even if
(17:02):
you didn't play a role in in theinfraction, you play a role in
the solution and you have to seeyour place in that.
one of the things when I was uh,as we started to help more
couples who had dealt withinfidelity and uh, uh and I
began to study and do someresearch on it, one of the
things that I found was the thethe partner who feels like they
(17:22):
are the victim, the partner whodid not commit the infidelity uh
often bears the responsibilityof the relationship healing and
the other partner being able tomove forward, healing and the
other partner being able to moveforward.
So your role is ensuring themwe can go forward, because until
you decide that you're willingto go forward, they can't move
(17:42):
forward from this yeah so if therelationship stalls or fails,
that's your part yeah that'syour role and I'm not.
You know, we believescripturally that if it for the
case of infidelity, um, if twoindividuals decide to part, they
can yeah on biblical grounds.
However, I think what has to beconsidered even before we get
(18:05):
to I got biblical right to leaveyou.
Before you get to that, I thinkyou have to explore forgiveness
, yes, and reconciliation first.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
First, and that's what we always push right, and
because a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
They cheated.
I'm leaving.
You have a right to leave ifthat's your choice, but before
you run out, because this is notjust a divorce.
This is a breaking of covenant,this is a separating of lives,
this is all of that.
Children involved and we won'tget into how all that plays, and
I think we should do a wholeother podcast dealing with
divorce.
Yeah, but before you do that,you may find it easier.
(18:40):
You may find it easier.
Mm-hmm To face forgiveness thanit is to face divorce.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Usually couples that and I don't know why we're
talking about this, but usuallycouples that go through that
their bond is stronger andthey're closer.
And I'm not saying it's a goodthing because they have to work
and they have to fight to get tothat place right.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But usually they come out like on the other side and
it's really good.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
A lot of times, times .
You know what I, what I've seen.
They have to pull the mask off,like you really got to go ahead
and get naked with each otheryeah be honest, be open and
really deal with what needs tobe dealt with yeah, that's good,
yeah, and I think that's whatmakes that bond strong, so we on
number three number threenumber three is seek
understanding, not victory oh,that's good did you seek
(19:30):
understanding with me?
not early on.
I wanted victory.
I wanted to.
I wanted to be right.
I wanted to be right.
I wanted you to see things myway.
I want you to get on board withme and just say you right and
go along with it, uh.
But the reality is that thatthat I wasn't right, yeah, and I
(19:52):
had to acknowledge that Iwasn't right.
I felt I felt I'm entitled toan opinion yeah but in a
marriage, my opinion can'toverride your feelings right and
what you need for me as ahusband, and that's what I had
to mature to yeah
Speaker 2 (20:09):
yeah it took some time, but we got there
absolutely hey.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So so what do you think?
Where were you with that?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
with seeking understanding.
Yeah, I don't think I wasseeking for no understanding and
I was like this just makessense.
You know, this is what we needto do, um, but um, I think for
me, I just realized that itwasn't a big deal.
It wasn't that big of a dealand um, and so now I enjoy doing
whatever I need to do aroundthe house and try not to nag as
(20:38):
much.
Um, just kind of say, hey, weneed to do xyz.
Or if I'm running out and wegot people coming, can you and I
just try to list out, well,well, I didn't get a chance to
do this, can you take this anddo this and do this, and you
know, for me while I'm gone, orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I think we both had to learn to listen to one
another empathetically.
That constantly comes up Listenempathetically, hear one
another and make the necessarycompromises, which is a big part
of working together.
I had to give on how I felt,you had to give on how you felt,
and we found a middle ground,and that middle ground was the
(21:16):
house does not have to bespotless, but it does need to be
clean beyond what I may thinkit needs to be.
So we met in the middle and itworked.
Yeah, but I think you kind ofscarred from your childhood,
though no, I wouldn't reallyscar from childhood, I wouldn't
really scar, I think I just keptforming this opinion, then you
(21:37):
know so a lot of us men havethis view of.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That's your job.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, and that's just .
You think that's the wiferesponsibility.
She gonna cook, she gonna clean.
So it's like I'll help, but Iain't helping too much.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
we need to do a podcast on rose or something,
because I think a lot of peoplestruggle with that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, definitely.
I don't think they reallyconsider Rose before they get
married.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I'm the husband, you the wife.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Let's get married and it's usually what we see
growing up as children is whatwe feel like.
This is what my life is goingto be like.
I didn't see my mom for me, andmom was the one who cooked
clean, took care of the house,washed clothes and all that
stuff, and they probably didn'thave to do much until they got
old enough to do things on theirown.
And so when they get a wife,and then the wife saying you
(22:21):
know, you need to help me, oryou didn't, you ain't doing this
, or I need you to keep thisclean, and so they like what is
this?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
yeah, I've been at work all day making money.
What you talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
My place should be on the table yeah, the house
should be clean when I get therewhat you mean.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
You want me to do it.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
And what you got?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
some uh, some people say these modernized women
modern, these modern day womendon't want the man to cook and
clean.
What's wrong with you, some?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
men enjoy cooking I.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I think those are traditional roles from a time
past and if it works for couplestoday, great.
If it does not work where wehave two parent households I
mean two working parents thatmay not work together.
Yeah, you got to work togetherto make it work.
I mean, and now, because of theeconomy you got, you definitely
got two pairs working toprovide, just to keep up work.
I mean, and now, because of theeconomy, you got, you
definitely got two pairs workingto provide, just to keep up
(23:12):
pace with what's going on?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
yeah, because you know back.
You know my grandparents areold, like 90s and 80s, so they
grew up different.
My granddad went out and heworked, but my grandma pretty
much cooked, took care of thehouse and made his food and,
like he don't know how to go inthe kitchen, do nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
She's a real woman.
Is that what it is?
Is?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
that what it is she's a real wife don't do that.
You're gonna make a lot ofthese women mad, uh, but that's
like you said.
That's what happened back thenand that's what was going on
back then, and sometimes I feellike you grow up seeing that and
so now trying to figure out,okay, what's my role, what's his
role, what's my responsibility,what's his responsibility, and
(23:53):
it's kind of all getting kind of, you know, misconstrued and
yeah people got their own viewsand then we get together kind of
clash and that's what we tellcouples define your own roles.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Do what works for you too, there's no biblical role,
ideally, where it says thisperson has to do this, this
person has to do that in themodern age, and so you, that
those couples, have to cometogether on what works for them
and do that exactly.
Come on, let's keep going.
What's?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
all right, so number four was extend grace extend
grace.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Come on, I love that.
More grace more grace, moregrace.
Buy me a t-shirt I think that'sabsolutely what has to happen.
Extend grace to your partnerbecause, um, I mean you got to
consider yourself not.
This goes straight biblical youknow, if bible says if you
(24:48):
don't forgive your brother andyour sister, yeah, your heavenly
father will not forgive youthen, beyond that, you got to
consider what god has forgivenyou from yeah and I'm not trying
to be preaching here, but theseprinciples of biblical
forgiveness and what the bibleteaches us, as believers extend
beyond just being a goodchristian yeah it's a part of
being a good husband and a goodwife.
(25:11):
You got to remember the samegrace you want gift to your
spouse.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
So if your spouse is doing something that you want,
you don't want to forgive themfor.
You want to have bitterness andresentment.
Consider yourself what wouldyou want?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Exactly Right.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
How would you want them to respond to you?
I want forgiveness from you forwhatever I do, I want grace for
my humanity right.
So if, if that's what I wantfrom you, I should extend that
same thing to you.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah and that's as believers going outside, of just
husband and wives.
But in your everyday life youknow you just you need to
forgive and have grace forpeople, because usually you want
that grace for yourself, yeah,but you don't want to freely
give it to others, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I think about when the disciples asked Jesus well,
how often should we forgive?
And he?
He told them seven times, 70.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So what's that?
Four hundred and ninety times?
Four hundred and ninety timesyou should forgive Right Now.
I think the point he was makingthere is I don't expect you to
keep count exactly.
Let it go like don't hold on tothings that are done, you be.
Give forgiveness freely.
If forgiveness was money, hewould want us to splurge that's
(26:24):
good he wanted to just give it.
So when you think about yourspouse, forgiveness is something
you should have stored upreserves ready to give freely,
even if you don't get an apology.
Yes, even if you don't get anapology, because forgiveness
isn't based on receiving anapology.
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Sometimes you'll never hear.
You know I'm sorry or anything,and you just got to be able to
forgive a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So get scratched, that list, that mental list ask
god to erase it.
Yes, erase it from your heart.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, let your spouse go for whatever they did, even
if you don't feel like theylearned their lesson that's what
it's about people want topeople, want to make sure they
feel it, want to make sure youlearn, and then sometimes people
want to just hurt you becausethey they're hurting and so I
want you to feel what I felt.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, so and they may not feel anything because they
added maybe you need just getover it.
But this is what these stepsare about, because you don't
just get over.
It's about acknowledging, walk.
Acknowledging it, walkingthrough it and dealing with it
in a healthy way.
So, as your marriage goesforward, the one who's holding
the offense doesn't always wantyou to feel what they feel and
(27:38):
the other one doesn't look atthe person offended saying why
don't you just get over it?
But they work together to moveforward.
You be healed from the offenseand I can learn to respect how
you feel and learn not to offendyou in that area.
Yeah, because just getting overand moving on or just hey.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I'm sorry what are you?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
sorry, we had that conversation.
What are you sorry?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
for what are you sorry for?
I think that's good, becausehow are you gonna know what not
to do again if I don't talk?
If we don't talk and get it outand I tell you you hurt me, or
when you did or you said xyz, Imean you gotta have conversation
because most men do that.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
They see their wives have an attitude, they're in a
mood or whatever, and they justcome in look, whatever I did,
I'm.
I'm sorry, I would just you'dbe like you don't even know what
you did you need to be able totell them what they did.
I do that now because you usedto do that.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, you know, whatever, I'm sorry like no, we
need to talk.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I need to tell you this is what you said.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
This is what you did hurt my feelings so and so I'm
better at that I.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I think I come to you a lot more you do, and I
appreciate it, because otherwiseI just got to see you feeling
how you feel and I just pop inwith I don't know what I did,
but I apologize, and you whatyou're apologizing for if I
don't know what I did, but Iapologize.
What you apologizing for if youdon't know what you did, well,
whatever it is.
Well, you going to tell me Nah,you should know.
Well, I don't know.
So I'm sorry, but it worksbetter when you tell me we talk
(29:02):
through it in a healthy way.
Yeah, and we grow from it.
So I don't repeat that samething, exactly from it.
So I don't repeat that samething, exactly.
All right, come on what's thenext one?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
that's good, okay.
Number five commit to ongoingcommunication.
I think that's a good one yeahyou gotta be have.
You gotta have opencommunication, you gotta be able
to talk through um difficultconversations and um and be able
to get each other's feedback onwhy you feel the way you feel,
and sometimes you know it's justdifferent views.
(29:29):
On why I see something this way.
You see something you knowTotally different, like I don't
think that's a big deal, youknow, and so Just talking
through that, I think it helps.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I agree Number one conflict resolution is not a one
time thing.
No, and in order to have thatcommunication cannot be a one
time thing or communicationaround conflict resolution can
be a one time thing, you have tocommit to being to ongoing
communication, saying every timesomething happens, we're going
(29:59):
to talk and we're going to workthrough it and we're going to
see this as an opportunity toget better in this area of our
relationship not where I've seena lot of people go.
They see it as an opportunity toshut down yeah where, okay,
we've talked about this before,you just don't get it, and so
they stop talking, because we'vebeen there where it's like just
(30:19):
just move on just don't sayanything, yeah, or you're not
gonna change, no way.
So why I keep saying that it'sbecause you don't know if you'll
ever change, but you just keepsaying it and you don't just say
it to change them, right youjust say it, tell them how you
feel how long did it take me tochange in some aspects of our
marriage long time some stuffain't even changed, some stuff
(30:42):
still the same.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm saying the same thing.
I just learned not to harp oncertain things.
It's just not even worth it.
You know, the things that youknow in my younger years that I
was like kind of talking about,I ain't talking about that, no
more.
That's child, that's old.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
We had to grow, but we grew through our
communication.
Yeah, we kept the lines ofcommunication open.
Nobody went.
We kept the lines ofcommunication open.
Nobody went into shutdown mode.
I mean, if we did, it was short, yeah, and we came back
together because we don't evenlike the feeling of not
communicating.
You know, everybody said weattach it at the hill, so you
know we're always together.
So for us to always be together, we have to have open, honest,
(31:18):
healthy communication, becausebeing close, like we are, yeah,
creates problems.
We, we, we offend each other butwe work through it, yeah and
and because we're able to talk,and I think that improvement
over the years has made it a lotbetter, a lot easier.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
We get over stuff quicker, we deal with stuff
faster, we don't avoid it, wetalk about it, yeah, and we
don't sweat the small stuff, youknow, and I think we had to
learn that in the in thebeginning, where the enemy would
try to, you know, creep incertain places, certain areas,
and we just had to reallyrealize that stuff and get
better with communication,talking, just all of that yeah
(31:56):
and so that has been a real,real game changer for us.
100 growth.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, well what?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
what do you think today?
I think I think we did.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I think today was good.
You think today, I think we did, I think today was good.
You like today?
Yeah, I think it's really good.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think we got two podcasts out of today.
We got some more topics.
Yeah, we got some more topics.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
But it was really good and I hope those listening
really heard our heart on whatwe're trying to tell them.
No-transcript.
(32:35):
Ask him to help you to haveopen, honest conversations with
your spouse and to move forwardwith your partner and don't
don't be tired to what, what,what happened it happened, you
have to accept that it happened,acknowledge it.
both parties work on movingforward and not repeating those
same things so that you end upin this cycle of offense or
(32:57):
unforgiveness and bitterness,resentment, frustration and and
it silently erodes the marriageuntil one day the marriage may
end up dissolving as a resultand everybody looks and says how
did we get here?
Well, it started with thatlittle stuff that was never
dealt with.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And so hopefully this will help you deal with it, one
of the things we want toencourage you guys to do.
As you're listening to us,there are some links in the
description on this page to twobooks that we've shared
Communicating Connect and alsoElimin in your marriage.
Please, I encourage you to getthose books, read them.
They will be of great value andbenefit to you and give you
(33:37):
further steps and moreinformation that you can go and
implement.
Any resource guide book we putout is about giving you
practical steps or things youcan apply immediately to help
improve your relationship.
That's what we want to seehappen with couples, with
marriages and with thoseindividuals that just want to be
better and have a successfulmarriage.
I love our relationship yes, Ido too but we keep getting
(33:59):
better yeah, it's not, it's notperfect but it's we, we had a
situation just the other day,and we acknowledged what we
didn't like about it on bothends, and even in that we have
learned to celebrate our wins.
We say well, we, we're betterthough yeah you know, yeah, okay
, I see that I work on that.
He was like I work on my end.
It was like but we're a lotbetter than we used to be yeah,
(34:21):
so you can celebrate your winseven while acknowledging the
flaws in the areas ofimprovement exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, that was good.
Good, you got anything else,that's it.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Come on, that's a bit awesome.
Hopefully you guys grabbed whatwe said today.
Take it, apply it.
It will change your life.
Listen, we can't wait to seeyou.
Until next time, share thispodcast, don't forget to like
and subscribe and we will seeyou next week.
God bless you.
Hey, thank you for joining us,for doing it with the Daniels.
If you want to keep up witheverything going on on our
channel, don't forget to like,comment, subscribe and share
(34:54):
this podcast.
Absolutely.
We'll see you next time.
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