September 7, 2023 • 48 mins
Dominika and Chris continue on the crazy journey into the life of Lori Vallow Daybell and the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of her children, Tylee and JJ. We follow the money trail, from secret love letters and burner phones to Lori's manipulative financial moves and the purchase of an alarming number of guns.
Hosted by Dominika Best and Christopher Gordon.
Visit thebeststorytellingnetwork.com where you’ll find show notes, my books, links to sources for this episode, social media and much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Deviant Mind.
This is Dominica.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And this is Christopher.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And we are on part two of Lori Vallow Debell and
this insane case of a bunch ofmurders, including her children,
and we were just discussingwhere we left off.
So, for people who haven'tlistened to the first episode,
definitely go back, becausethere's a lot of players in this
(01:00):
.
There's two different well,more than two families, three
different families involved thedeath of spouses, including
Charles Vallow, which we spokeabout, who was Lori's husband,
who was shot by her brother,alex Cox, and we had just talked
(01:21):
about Tammy Debell and what awonderful human being she was,
and that's kind of where we leftoff in the first episode.
And Tammy Debell was the wifeof Chad Debell and they had been
together for a very, very longtime, and so we had talked about
how amazing she was, but wedidn't entirely get into her
(01:44):
murder.
But we wanted to kind of goback in the timeline around July
, august of 2019.
Now, this was around the timethat Charles had been shot to
death by Alex and on July 18,2019, lori found out that
(02:07):
Charles had not named her as thebeneficiary for his million
dollar life insurance policy.
Instead, he had chosen hissister to be that, and his
sister was Kay Woodcock, who wasthe grandmother of JJ Vallow,
who she had adopted with CharlesVallow, so she was the
(02:31):
beneficiary to that.
But while this was allhappening, lori and Chad Debell
were completely going crazy onChad on their burner phones
because, again, this is 2019.
So we have a lot of electronicinformation with cell phones and
(02:54):
computers and, of course, asmaybe you don't know, but Lori
was tried and was found guiltyon two counts of murder and
she's in jail for quite sometime, and Chad Debell's case is
(03:17):
how much I believe seven counts.
Yeah, but yeah, exactly sevencounts.
But she was put away for themurder of her children.
Right, right, yes, it's a twocounts murder.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, and also with the Charles murder and Alex.
Alex used to his defense thatwas in self defense that he bore
witness to his brother-in-lawbeating on his sister intervene
and shot him to death.
So I think consequently hedidn't serve any time for that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And then he died.
So he died of natural causes.
He died of a blood clot in hislungs, I believe.
So he was never tried for thatmurder, nor was he arrested for
that murder.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And he was also during this whole trial of Chad
and Lori.
He was due to testify butmysteriously died around the
time he was supposed to, andthen his attorney passed away as
well, Not long after he did.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Which, of course, this is all.
Excuse me, this is allhappening during the COVID time.
So I mean, lots of people diedand yeah, so I'm assuming that
had something to do with it, butyeah, so he died.
His lawyer died, but he wasalso.
There was somebody who took ashot at Tammy Daybell before she
(04:35):
passed away and I believe thepolice believed it was probably
him who did it.
But if we go back to July, thisis and this is around the time
that Chad and Lori are textingeach other about Kauai and quote
(04:56):
the plan.
They're writing love letters toeach other.
One of the newspaper articles Iread.
They sounded like it was likeromance novels, like they were
writing that much, and they werealso around this time Lori.
Lori had a niece, Melanie, whowas in the same cult as she was,
(05:21):
and they were calling BrandonDark an in evil spirits and
Melanie was saying that he waspart of Hitler's group, which
was considered very dark, veryhigh dark, because there was a
very specific terminology tothis.
And around this time, betweenAugust and October of 2019, the
(05:43):
Rexburg police department feelthat Alex Cox purchased 46 guns,
so he was getting ready forstuff For Doomsday.
Exactly, and on August 10,2019,.
Kay Woodcock said that that wasthe last conversation she had
with JJ, and Kay Woodcock is theone who asked the police to do
(06:04):
a welfare check and that's howthe kids were discovered, that
they were gone.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I just to back it up and to let everyone know, at the
beginning of the relationship,lori claims that she had in her
closet a portal to Chad and sowhenever they were separated or
he was in another city and hewas giving his speeches because
he was a prophet right, heclaimed that he was a prophet,
(06:33):
so he'd visit her through thisportal spiritually.
So it was kind of like ateleportation device, a
spiritual teleportation, so shecould be at home.
But she'll open up the closetand he'll come through.
Just to give everyone abackground as to what their
(06:54):
mindset here was.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, just the cuckoo for Coco Puffs crazy, yes.
So around August was also whenLori removed Tylee and JJ from
her $2 million life insurancepolicy and she instead made her
oldest son, kobe Ryan, the onlybeneficiary, and this was on
August 12.
(07:15):
And then this is around thesame time that she moved to
Rexburg and she submitted arental application saying that
her income was the amount ofcombined social security
benefits for herself, jj andTylee.
So she was getting socialsecurity benefits from the death
of her husband, charles Fallow,and Tylee was getting it from
(07:38):
her own dad, and I'm assuming JJwas getting benefits because he
was autistic.
He was, yeah, so, and she wassupposed to be using those JJ
though those benefits for herchildren, not using it for the
rental application.
And now the things start gettingreally creepy here.
(07:59):
So there's direct deposits fromTylee, who is the daughter.
Her social security payments gofrom her account to a newly
created joint account for Loriand Tylee.
So, all of a sudden, lori nowhas access to her money and
between August 31st and earlySeptember 2019, lori, tylee, jj,
(08:22):
alex and Melanie Paolauskimoved to Rexburg, idaho, which
was very near where Chad Daybelllived.
Now Melanie at this point, ifyou remember, had already dumped
her husband Brandon, and thatwas around the same time that
(08:43):
Lori started telling her bestienamed Melanie Gibb that JJ was
possessed.
And that was around the samemonth that Tylee realized that
the money she was supposed tohave in her bank account to pay
for her auto payment for herJeep came back with insufficient
(09:07):
funds and her bank account hadbeen wiped out.
So this is going to be like alittle like we have a timeline
here, but because there's somuch information, we figured
like it would be good just to gostep by step, because it's very
confusing, because when thekids disappear, it's actually
(09:27):
not when they get discoveredthat they disappear.
So that's absolutely right.
It's one of those strange cases.
So on September 3 2019, lorienrolled JJ at Kennedy
Elementary School in Rathberg,and on September 8, chad signed
an application with Tammy toincrease her life insurance to
(09:49):
the maximum amount allowed onthe policy, and now um.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I believe they're living in the same.
By the way, I believe they'reliving in the same building
complex.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Oh, they're in the same complex, not just the same
town.
Okay, yeah, which I guess makessense because the love is so
strong, apparently.
So on September 8 is also thesame day that Tiley, jj, lori
and Alex visited YellowstoneNational Park.
And this is when officials sayis the last time anyone saw
(10:23):
Tiley alive, and that was thelast time.
There was a last in personpurchase from Tiley's bank
account.
And when it was discovered thatthis was the last time anybody
saw her, the FBI was askinganybody for help who may have
photos of the family during thatday to the park.
(10:45):
So September 8 is the last timethat anybody sees Tiley alive.
And on September 9 phonerecords place Cox, which is Alex
Cox, which is Lori's brother,on Chad's property in the
general area where investigatorslater found Tiley's remains.
So it goes to seem like she waskilled on September 8 and was
(11:10):
buried on September 9.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And Chad Debel, from what I understand.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, but he, jjj, dies later.
There's also phone records thatshow that Chad texted Tammy
Chad is the boyfriend, chadDebel and told her he shot a
raccoon and buried it in theirpet cemetery.
By what the FBI and the policebelieve, this was Tiley's body.
(11:37):
He also said that he found theraccoon when he was burning the
lot the limb debris by the firepit, so it's like from the trees
, which makes sense becauseTiley's body was very badly
burned.
This is September 9.
So this is when the actualdeath happens of Tiley.
On September 10 and the 16th theLori deposited money into
(12:00):
Tiley's account, but then it wasimmediately Venmo to Kobe Ryan,
lori's son, and police laterfound that there were 29
deposits into Tiley's accountfrom Lori's account and then the
money was immediately Venmo toto Ryan.
So again, I don't know that shekilled her daughter for money.
Right now sure seems like it.
Well, also, finally, did notlike Chad Debel.
(12:22):
So mid September 2019.
Alex's girlfriend, zulema, wholater becomes his wife, said she
visited Lori but didn't seeTiley.
And when she asked Lori whereTiley was, lori allegedly said
quote she had to be freed.
And when Zulema asked what shemeant and Lori put her hand in
(12:49):
Zulema's face and said don't askso on September 18, 2019.
Jj and Lori's social securitybenefits were deposited and they
were each 1951 each and Loriwas still lying to people saying
(13:12):
that she had a teenage daughterwho was at school in Rexonburg,
and so she was kind of keepingup the pretense that Tiley was
still alive, even though shewasn't and she was very
convincing manipulator I have tothrow out.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
there she was.
It was big, you know, with thepageant background.
You know like being on TVwhenever there was a spotlight,
even when arrested for all ofthis really enjoyed the
spotlight.
So she's able to convincepeople of whatever she wants and
I think that that really helpsher to the benefit over this
time.
(13:48):
Perhaps I'm going to learn fromher mom Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So this is around the time where people start trying
to ask where JJ was.
So, um, supposedly she.
The police found Lori searchingthe internet for Kennedy
(14:13):
Elementary, rexburg, idaho phonenumber and defined possess.
And on September September 22is when people say was the last
time that JJ was seen alive.
So Melanie Gibb and herboyfriend, david Warwick,
visited Lori in Idaho and thiswas September 22.
(14:33):
And Lori lied to Melanie andtold her that Tiley was at BYU
in Idaho with her roommates.
Tiley was never enrolled at BYUIdaho or at any school.
When Melanie asked Lori whereTiley's belongings were, lori
had said that she was put instorage.
(14:54):
So there's no hint of Tileyanywhere in the house.
And during the weekend thatMelanie and her boyfriend were
there, they interacted with Chadseveral times and they said
that Chad and Lori were veryromantic together and that Chad
also allegedly told Warwick thatTammy was a good wife, but her
(15:16):
time was coming up and that wasa direct quote and he claimed
that he had had a dream thatTammy was going to die by the
time she was 50.
Now during this weekend therewas some crazy talk from Lori to
Melanie about how JJ had anevil spirit in him and she said
(15:37):
that she found this out fromChad, so Chad was the one that
told her and that JJ's behaviorwas becoming more and more
difficult and he would saythings like, quote I love Satan.
And when Melanie saw JJ forthat last time, she said he
looked pretty normal.
And Lori said that she wasn'tgoing to be taking care of JJ
(16:01):
much longer because Kay, her nowdead husband's sister, was
going to be taking care of JJgoing forward.
So the last time anyone saw JJalive was on 10th, at 1030pm on
September 22nd 2019.
And Melanie saw Alex, thebrother, taking JJ upstairs and
(16:25):
that was the last proof of lifethat there's a photo actually of
JJ sitting on a couch in Lori'sfront room and that's with the
red pajamas, with the redpajamas with the saying sleepy
hero on it.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And to, as a reminder , the same spirits and demons
were entirely as well, which wetouch upon in part one, hillary
being one of these evil demonsthat was possessing zombies,
rather possessing her daughter.
So, yes, once again, chad'sinfluence of Doomsday, the fact
(16:59):
that people have demons and evilspirits inside of them, lead
Lori to believe it, and sheabsolutely believes it.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
and they've gone missing now, yeah, yeah.
So this is so.
September 23rd 2019, which isthe day after this is where the
Rexburg Police Departmentbelieve that JJ was killed and
Melanie stayed in Tiley's roomthat weekend.
Warwick stayed in JJ's roomduring their visit, but Melanie
(17:29):
told the cops later that Davidwoke up sometime after midnight
and he was very troubled becausehe said he had were like the
worst nightmare in his life.
And Melanie tried to go intoLori's room but the door was
locked and neither Lori nor Chadresponded to her texts.
Wow.
(17:51):
That morning, lori said that shetold Warwick that JJ had had an
episode climbing on thecabinets and fridge and knocked
over a picture of Jesus Christ,because God forbid that happens.
And when David Warwick asked ifhe could give JJ a blessing,
lori told him that Alex wasalready taking care of him and
they, melanie and David, leftthat home and that was the last
(18:15):
time they saw JJ.
And whenever Melanie askedwhere JJ was, lori would never
tell her.
So September 24, which is thenext day, lori emailed Kennedy
Elementary and said that JJ wasbeing removed from Kennedy and
he was going to Louisiana withhis grandparents.
The principal called Lori andsaid that they could send JJ's
(18:41):
records out to Louisiana.
When he was there and Lorichanged her story and said oh no
, they're not moving toLouisiana, they're going to
actually home school him.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So which which could again, in her manipulation
tactics, could make sense,considering he was autistic,
right, so they could make anargument for that.
You know he needed specialattention.
Therefore, we're going to homeschool, I mean it just all kind
of works out.
And also, I believe that's oneof the reasons why Chad let's
(19:18):
face it felt that he waspossessed and a demon Is the
fact that he was probably a verydifficult child to raise, which
is why I think, goodness, thesystem was going to adopt sort
of take over, but never had theopportunity.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well, and I mean, do we even know if that was
actually the case, that she wasgoing to adopt?
Or that these people want JJ'smoney, right, because they just
seem to be getting rid of peopleso they can be together?
I mean, that to me seems likethe whole goal of all this
massacre of children and spouses.
It's like we got to be together.
(19:56):
We've been together before.
You're a prophet, I'm theprophet's right hand woman, and
we're going to like experience,bliss and joy ruling over dozens
of planets out in outer space.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So it makes sense.
It makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So the police found on September 30 that Lori
searched the internet for quotehow to get the backseat out of
my Jeep Wrangler and quote andTiley actually drove a Jeep
Wrangler before she was murdered.
Now, when they found her body,they could not tell how she died
because of how badly burned itwas.
So on October 1, 2019, lorirented a 10 by 10 storage unit
(20:40):
in Rexburg and her and whatpeople seem to think was Alex,
her brother, they went in andout of the unit nine times, and
Chad also were in the storagefacility together as well, and
there was some thought thatmaybe that's where they were
hiding the bodies initially, butobviously they were found on
(21:03):
Chad's property later.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, Alex is a cell phone data.
Definitely placed them atChad's backyard for
approximately two hours.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, and now this is around the time that people
start getting shot at.
So October 2, 2019, brandon,melanie's ex husband, he's back
in Arizona and he was returningto his home and he was shot at
by someone and the person washolding a gun with a silencer
and shot at him in his car andat that point Brandon said that
(21:33):
the only people who knew wherehe lived was Melanie and for
others that he completelytrusted.
Arizona Central reported theshooter was driving a Jeep
registered to Charles fallow,who was dead, and the detective
Ray, her most or most silo,contacted the Rexburg police
(21:56):
department, contacted theGilbert police about the
incident and they asked them toconduct surveillance on Lori
Daybell's apartment around thistime.
So the police were looking atLori's apartment.
They saw Chad and Lori going inand out, but never saw a
(22:18):
teenage girl or young boy, andthis was the day that Lori also
purchased a wedding ring onAmazon which would later be seen
on her finger at her marriageto Chad in Hawaii this is a
deliberate system.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
In October they start getting their wedding rings and
it really is much longer afterthe children go missing, tammy
passes away that they do go toHawaii and it's actually ten
years life insurance that paysfor the Hawaiian wedding.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, of course, because these people are
apparently are very, very smartabout life insurance policies.
So October 9th, tammy calls 911and set a masked man shot at
her in her driveway with whatshe thought at the time was a
paintball gun.
It was later indicated in courtdocuments that Alex Cox, lori
(23:08):
Daybell's brother, attempted toshoot and kill Tammy that day.
That was October 9th.
On October 10th, ocoby Ryan gotmore money from Tyles Venmo
with a message of we love you,and the Rexford Police
Department saw that thetransaction was actually made
(23:29):
using Tyles phone, but the IPaddress for the transaction was
registered to an address inKansas City, missouri, where
Lori and her niece, melaniePalauski were.
So they connected the phone tothem on October 19, 2019.
So this is 10 days after Tammywas shot at.
(23:49):
Chad calls 911 and said Tammydied in her sleep.
When the detectives visit theirhome, they determined that she
died between 1230 and 1230 am to2am and Chad called 911 around
6am that he found his wifedeceased and he claimed that
(24:10):
Tammy had been experiencinghealth problems previous to this
and when the detectivesdetectives came to the home,
they noted pink foam at hermouth and the chief medical
examiner, eric Christiansen,said that was a manifestation of
a pulmonary edema, and that'swhy they believed it was due to
a heart attack, and they claimthat her cause of death was
(24:30):
natural.
By the way, this woman is, like, not yet 50.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So I have 50 and it's actually it's Chad that's there
and then the eldest of five, hegoes into the room and it's
just in shock.
He doesn't actually understandthem.
He thinks that first she'sstill asleep.
So then the horror of justknowing that his mom, his dad,
you know, his dad's doing thewhole lack.
And that happens to be so, youknow, I think his guy.
(24:57):
I understand the son.
When I saw an interview withthe five children, he had a
really bad feeling thatsomething was up because, as you
just mentioned, she was fit,she was young, so yeah, no sense
and so, because the medicalexaminer said that it was
(25:17):
natural, there was no autopsyperformed.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Nobody really thought it was suspicious, except for
maybe that one person that youtalked about and they believe
Chad story, Of course, whenMelanie asked Lori about Tammy's
death, Lori said quote she hada dark entity in her and we had
to do what we could to get thespirit out of her.
And quote Lori also said alsotold Melanie that Tammy was
(25:45):
getting suspicious, that Chadwas having an affair and that's
a red.
That's allegedly when sheturned dark.
So that's convenient.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, you know you would think it would.
Yeah, it would be enough withwith Tammy out of the picture
and in fact, when Chad aroundthe same time that I guess
Melanie is asking Lori, hey, youknow how do you feel about this
Chad also was asked by friendsare you okay?
(26:16):
And he was like I'm fine by allaccounts, he had completely
moved on.
Yeah, and he just accepted this.
You know he he after all knewhe was a prophet and he knew
about doomsday and all thezombies and things, and he was
fine, he just completely movedon.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So that, and also she was buried on October 22nd in
Springville, utah.
They had a memorial service inRexburg the next day and Lori
was that same day looking atwedding dresses.
Chad was moving into herapartment and they were like
things were going fast and tothe point that on October 26,
(26:56):
chad visited a couple in his LDSward, the Gilbert's, and he
brought Lori over to them andthey were like like two
teenagers, the Gilbert said, andhis arm was around her, she was
giggling and laughing, theywere like on top of each other
and she never mentioned herchildren, that she had children
(27:20):
to this couple and the couplewere like this is weird.
We've never seen Chad behavelike this.
And, mind you, chad also hashow many kids?
Five.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So 30 years of marriage, 30 years 30 years.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
So it's like, yeah, anyway, so on November 4 2019,
tiley Jeep was seized by theRexburg Police Department and
because, again, it was seen, Idon't know actually why they
seized it.
Do you know why they seizedthat?
Because it was never reportedmissing, but I don't know why it
(27:55):
was seized.
But maybe this is when theRexburg Police Department are
like wait a minute, there'ssomething fishy going on.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, I mean, if you ask me, I feel I had something
to do with which Jeep was thatwas?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Charles Charles Valos Jeep was the one that was used
at Brandon.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean, I think it could just be one of those
things where they had the forher vehicle information and they
knew she was missing and theyjust saw the car.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Maybe they don't know she's missing yet.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
At this point, they don't know.
She has like a where she, ohshe's over at this thing and so
I believe the wood cocks.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
The wood cocks gets a welfare check for JJ on
November 26.
So we're not there yet.
So I don't know why they seizeher Jeep.
Maybe it was dumped somewhere,probably something to look into.
But just so everybody knows, onNovember 5, 2019, chad and
(29:02):
Laurie get married in Hawaii.
Yeah, and they come back tolive in Rexburg.
Now the police said that Chadtold witnesses that Laurie had
no children under 18 and Laurietold people that highly died
years earlier.
So she's already like yeah, no,my kids are gone On November 7,
if you're getting married.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
If you're getting married, why?
When you have your children,you know right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
On those November 7, zulema and Alex cock got engaged
.
Cocks got engaged during a tripto Rexburg and JJ and Tiley
were obviously nowhere nearRexburg on this trip and Zulema
said that she didn't know wherethey were but got photos from
them in Hawaii.
So apparently Laurie wastelling the family that did know
(29:53):
that these kids existed, thatthey were in Hawaii and sending
photos, which is weird.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
And then, hey, I do believe this is around the time
timeline where they decide iseverything is starting to get
suspicious that chats familyagrees to have I mean to have
her body exhumed.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, oh, that's okay , all right, so that's that.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's the exclamation, okay, that makes
sense Based upon his behavior.
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, and the fact that he put up his policy
up right, yeah, yeah.
So where are we?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
in the body exhumed they find that Tammy had bruises
and she died of this fixation.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, so this was an interesting thing.
On mid November 2019, the Chadand Laurie visit the Gilbert's
again which was the LDS couplefrom his ward, and at this point
Gilbert said she knew Laurie'skids were missing and she
confronted Chad about the factthat he said Laurie's daughter
had died and he denied that henever said that.
(31:11):
And then Gilbert asked Chaddidn't highly deserve a life, a
car, a boyfriend, and Chadreportedly responded quote she
didn't like people and shedidn't like me, because November
18, 2019 is when K Woodcock gotthe feeling that she should
check the computer and noticedthat Lori was using her dead
(31:40):
brother's Amazon account to buya beach wedding dress, a bathing
suit, linen top, malachitewedding rings, and so, um, this
is a reason she's so brazen.
Yeah.
So this is when she was likeokay, you guys, I think we need
to call in for the welfare check.
And on November 24th 2019, alexCox was given a quote,
(32:06):
patriarchal blessing quote byChad, because now he had the
power of the quote church of thefirstborn and quote.
And in this blessing, alex isnow a missionary and he's going
to be opening the portals oftime and he said that in
previous creations Alex was avaliant warrior fighting for
(32:27):
truth and righteousness, alwaysseeking to do what was right and
what was right was being rightby his sister, lori, which I
have to assume that Alex killedboth of these children.
So on November 22nd I'm sorry,november 26th 2019, the Rexburg
Police Department finallyconduct the welfare check on JJ
(32:51):
and the K Woodcock said that shehad not spoken to him in months
.
When they arrived, jj was nothome and they saw Chad Daybell
and Alex Cox unloading a pickup.
So when Detective Hermosoloasked Cox if Lori was home, he
said no and he said that theywere doing a welfare check on JJ
and that Alex looked veryscared and turned to Chad.
(33:11):
Chad did not say anything andwhen Hermosolo asked Cox where
JJ was, he said he was inLouisiana, which Hermosolo said
was impossible.
So, hermosolo, he asked forLori's phone number and Alex
said he did not have it.
And then he and anotherdetective knocked on Lori's door
but nobody answered andDetective Hermosolo said he saw
(33:34):
Chad leaving his car and stoppedhim leaving in his car.
So Chad was like making a runfor it and asked Chad when was
the last time he saw JJ?
And Chad said he last saw JJ inOctober in apartment 107 with
Lori Vallow.
And when Hermosolo asked howChad knew Lori, he said he
hardly knew her except for thefact that he's her husband now
(33:57):
and that they had only met acouple of times.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And also down the line, both Lori and Chad will
eventually cut ties with Alexcompletely.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yes, because, no surprise, these people are
pathologically insane and whenthey they, he would not give
Lori's number until one of themcaved and Chad claimed he didn't
want to originally give themher number because he felt that
(34:30):
Hermosolo was accusing him ofsomething, and Hermosolo, he
called in more detectives andthey got a warrant to go into
the home.
But they didn't because Lorifinally returned a call and
agreed to open the door to thetwo detectives.
And then Lori claimedoriginally that JJ was with her
friend Melanie Gibbon, arizona,watching Frozen 2.
(34:51):
Melanie said she originally didnot answer the police because
she didn't know what to do.
She's like oh, my friend'slying and it's the police, but
I'm just going to lie to thepolice, which seems like a
really bad choice.
I don't know Like.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I'm freaking me.
She was part of this group.
Yeah, as part of his group.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well no, she was never part of the cult.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Okay, her claim Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
But she did finally confess to the police officers
that JJ was never with her andthat Lori told her to lie about
his whereabouts and to takerandom children at the movie
theater to show them, yeah, yeah.
So at this point they're likeokay, this is something really,
really weird.
So on November 27, which is aday later, the Rexburg Police
(35:43):
Department they served thesearch warrant, but when they
arrived to the apartment, chadand Lori were gone.
They did enter the apartmentand found that almost everything
had been taken and that it wasnearly empty.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Is this where they go back to Hawaii?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I believe so.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
And so in the garage they found camouflage suit, lots
of ammunition, a rifle, ahandgun, rope, duct tape,
several silencers.
That sounds and stand in theworld.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And stand up.
What are you supposed to do?
I don't know.
Man, a closet portal is notenough.
I was not In the world.
You have to get to the HolyLand and you know you gotta stay
strapped.
You have to have an AR.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, and they discovered emails from Chad and
books written by Chad.
They also searched Alex Cox'sapartment and Melanie's
apartment and foundhazmat-looking white suits and a
rental agreement for a storageunit in Rexburg.
When they tried to get a holdof Lori and Chad, their phones
were shut off.
So Chad and Lori flew to Liahu,Li Lihu, Hawaii, on December
(36:55):
1st.
Of course their children werenot with them.
Now, December 2nd was, I'msorry.
December 6th was when MelanieGibb contacted the police and
said yeah, Chad and Lori calledme on November 26th and told me
to lie about JJ's location.
And this is December 11th iswhen Tammy Debell's death is
(37:18):
said as suspicious by theFreeman County Sheriff's Office
and her body was exhumed and,according to a Utah medical
examiner, she died at the handsof another and died of
asphyxiation.
They also found that there werebruises on Tammy's arms.
That happened in the hoursaround the time of her death and
quote, they were consistentwith someone being restrained
(37:40):
and would be consistent withasphyxia being cause of death as
well.
And that was from the court.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Which, towards the end of this, I will explain why.
There's a pattern here to theway that these victims pass.
And I also did hear thatconversation where I guess
Melanie is on the phone withLori and she's just like but
where are they?
And it's just this really wildconversation where Lori is just
(38:09):
so nonchalant that she buys it.
You know, I feel a lot ofpeople just bought her being so.
In other words, if she's notfreaking out as would be the
normal expectation in a reactionto where my children and is
everything okay, and not even bespecific to what they're up to
and what they're doing, you knowit could be believable.
(38:32):
You can manipulate someone intobelieving things are fine if
you act as though things arefine.
So I think that's what happenedwith a lot of these victims
Victims in terms of just beinginvolved and have them, ask them
to lie and stories like this.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, yeah, and I also.
This is where it feels weird,like so, december 11th is when
Tammy Stabel's death issuspicious.
December 12th, alex Cox passesaway, reportedly from natural
causes, which again is kind oflike that's weird.
(39:09):
And December 20th, 2019, iswhen the Rexburg Police
Department finally announcedthat JJ and Tiley are missing
and they are the ones thatconnect the suspicious death of
Tammy to JJ and Tiley.
And the next day they said thatChad and Laurie were persons of
(39:29):
interest.
And December 30th is whenMelanie has a conversation with
the officers, saying that sheasked Laurie where her kids were
.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's that conversation.
She recorded it, incidentally,and played it back to the top.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
And they said she's.
Laurie said I know exactlywhere they are.
Yeah, of course she does.
Of course, of course she does.
So January 3rd, 2020 is whenthey get a search warrant to
serve Chad's home in Salem,idaho, and they recover 43 items
, including cell phones,journals, computers, medications
(40:06):
, and they are sent to the FBIlab.
January 7th is when KayWoodcock and her husband
traveled to Rexburg andannounced a $20,000 reward for
information leading to therecovery of the kids.
This is when the media goesnuts butts.
I remember this.
It was all.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
It's interesting to know that they actually been
missing for quite a while beforethe labelling of the missing
children.
That's a real good gap of timeright there.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, exactly that's why I thought that the timeline
was so important, because theygo, they become dead.
They are killed months beforethey are actually found missing,
which is insane to me, becauseI don't know how do kids slip
through the cracks like this?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I mean, I also have a forensic slip through sometimes
in the case of Tammy Daybell,like when you're examining her.
How are you missing that thefirst time?
And that happens what doeshappen quite frequently, where
bodies have to get exhumed justto double check.
Second opinion in murder casesis kind of the norm,
(41:20):
unfortunately sometimes.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And a lot of more can happen sooner.
Right, exactly we are now at.
Now everybody's gettinginvolved, the families are
getting involved and January 10,matt Daybell, who's Chad's
brother, leads for him tocooperate with the investigation
(41:43):
.
There's, like you know, likekids are missing and he, of
course, starts separatinghimself from Chad because he
claims his religious claims andbooks are not of his immediate
family's belief.
So his immediate family has alittle association with him.
And on January 25th is when theKauai Police Department served
(42:05):
Lori with a notice stating shemust produce JJ and Tiley to the
Idaho Department of Health andWelfare or the Rexburg Police
Department within five days.
On January 26th, nate Eaton,with the East Idaho News,
confronts Chad and Lori inHawaii.
When they're asked where theirchildren are they and what
happened to them, they do notanswer.
(42:27):
And, strangely enough, onJanuary 30th 2020, Lori misses
the 5pm deadline to produce JJand Tiley.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
And she's presented on the papers.
Incidentally, in Hawaii she'sby the pole site.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Of course she is.
Of course she has absolutely noremorse whatsoever.
And that's the same day thatKay Woodcock holds a news
conference saying like howdisappointed she is that you
know they're just not tellingthem where the kids are.
And a month later, it takesthem a month, or maybe a little
(43:01):
less than month.
But February 20th 2020, policein Kauai arrest Lori on a $5
million warrant from MadisonCounty and she is charged with
two felony counts of desertionand non-support of dependent
children.
She is also charged withresisting officers, criminal
solicitation and contempt ofcourt, and six days later she is
(43:23):
extradited.
She waves her extradition toIdaho and she says you know, she
wants to go back to Idaho whereshe will be charged, and she
tried multiple times to reduceher bail, but she couldn't get
it reduced, so she was like oh,I guess I'm going to have to go
(43:44):
back.
So on March 5th 2020, she isfinally extradited from Hawaii
to Rexburg, and I'm thinking thetrial itself is in Boise.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
by sitting right here , yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
And I think at this point would be a good time to
stop, because the part threewill go into her insane trial
which, yeah, was you know.
Again, we told you the resultsshe is found guilty.
But for the next episode is wewill go through her trial.
(44:24):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (44:26):
We haven't even gotten to them discovering JJ.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Exactly.
So let's do that all next weekand stay tuned for kind of.
I mean, I guess it's theclosing act of this insane
multifamily case where there's awoman assistance, center of
everything, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
And once again, a case with.
Well, this is a great doubleway, because it's technology and
religion.
Yes, and you know technologythese days and the days of
murdering, heinous crimes.
You know we have so muchinformation, including DNA,
which was something, as you know, wasn't available, and then
religion just plays such a rolein a lot of these murders.
(45:09):
So, yeah, absolutely, it's justlike an intense case.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
It is absolutely an intense case.
So thanks again for stickingwith us.
I hope that that timeline madesense, cause again, when we at
least when I started researchingthis case the tsunami of
information was so hard to keeptrack of because there's so many
players, so many familyconnections.
(45:36):
And the timeline was weirdbecause it doesn't.
It's not a clean timeline, likewhere the kids go missing and
then somebody notices them thenext day and say, oh hey, the
kids are missing.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
So I know we're like here talking and I'm like oh,
and then this happened Honestlyin my, in my research as well.
My notes just kind of fly allover the place because you'll
start going chronologically andthen you're like oh, and then it
connects back to somethingthat's at the start of your list
, you know.
So it definitely was a littlebit of a place, so it definitely
helps to have this kind of timemap.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Exactly so.
Thank you again, everybody forjoining us and stay tuned for
next week, part three, the trialand discovery of the bodies in
the Lori Vallow DeVal case.
All right, have a great week,everybody, bye, bye.
(46:55):
This episode was sponsored bythe Creek Killer book one in the
Harriet Harper thriller serieswritten by me, dominica best.
What would you do if you read?
The police found your body in acreek?
Find out in the creek killeravailable on Amazon.
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
(47:16):
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(47:37):
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forward.
Slash the deviant mind podcastUntil next time.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Deviant Mind.
This is Dominica.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And this is Christopher.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And we are on part two of Lori Vallow Debell and
this insane case of a bunch ofmurders, including her children,
and we were just discussingwhere we left off.
So, for people who haven'tlistened to the first episode,
definitely go back, becausethere's a lot of players in this
(01:00):
.
There's two different well,more than two families, three
different families involved thedeath of spouses, including
Charles Vallow, which we spokeabout, who was Lori's husband,
who was shot by her brother,alex Cox, and we had just talked
(01:21):
about Tammy Debell and what awonderful human being she was,
and that's kind of where we leftoff in the first episode.
And Tammy Debell was the wifeof Chad Debell and they had been
together for a very, very longtime, and so we had talked about
how amazing she was, but wedidn't entirely get into her
(01:44):
murder.
But we wanted to kind of goback in the timeline around July
, august of 2019.
Now, this was around the timethat Charles had been shot to
death by Alex and on July 18,2019, lori found out that
(02:07):
Charles had not named her as thebeneficiary for his million
dollar life insurance policy.
Instead, he had chosen hissister to be that, and his
sister was Kay Woodcock, who wasthe grandmother of JJ Vallow,
who she had adopted with CharlesVallow, so she was the
(02:31):
beneficiary to that.
But while this was allhappening, lori and Chad Debell
were completely going crazy onChad on their burner phones
because, again, this is 2019.
So we have a lot of electronicinformation with cell phones and
(02:54):
computers and, of course, asmaybe you don't know, but Lori
was tried and was found guiltyon two counts of murder and
she's in jail for quite sometime, and Chad Debell's case is
(03:17):
how much I believe seven counts.
Yeah, but yeah, exactly sevencounts.
But she was put away for themurder of her children.
Right, right, yes, it's a twocounts murder.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, and also with the Charles murder and Alex.
Alex used to his defense thatwas in self defense that he bore
witness to his brother-in-lawbeating on his sister intervene
and shot him to death.
So I think consequently hedidn't serve any time for that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And then he died.
So he died of natural causes.
He died of a blood clot in hislungs, I believe.
So he was never tried for thatmurder, nor was he arrested for
that murder.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And he was also during this whole trial of Chad
and Lori.
He was due to testify butmysteriously died around the
time he was supposed to, andthen his attorney passed away as
well, Not long after he did.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Which, of course, this is all.
Excuse me, this is allhappening during the COVID time.
So I mean, lots of people diedand yeah, so I'm assuming that
had something to do with it, butyeah, so he died.
His lawyer died, but he wasalso.
There was somebody who took ashot at Tammy Daybell before she
(04:35):
passed away and I believe thepolice believed it was probably
him who did it.
But if we go back to July, thisis and this is around the time
that Chad and Lori are textingeach other about Kauai and quote
(04:56):
the plan.
They're writing love letters toeach other.
One of the newspaper articles Iread.
They sounded like it was likeromance novels, like they were
writing that much, and they werealso around this time Lori.
Lori had a niece, Melanie, whowas in the same cult as she was,
(05:21):
and they were calling BrandonDark an in evil spirits and
Melanie was saying that he waspart of Hitler's group, which
was considered very dark, veryhigh dark, because there was a
very specific terminology tothis.
And around this time, betweenAugust and October of 2019, the
(05:43):
Rexburg police department feelthat Alex Cox purchased 46 guns,
so he was getting ready forstuff For Doomsday.
Exactly, and on August 10,2019,.
Kay Woodcock said that that wasthe last conversation she had
with JJ, and Kay Woodcock is theone who asked the police to do
(06:04):
a welfare check and that's howthe kids were discovered, that
they were gone.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
I just to back it up and to let everyone know, at the
beginning of the relationship,lori claims that she had in her
closet a portal to Chad and sowhenever they were separated or
he was in another city and hewas giving his speeches because
he was a prophet right, heclaimed that he was a prophet,
(06:33):
so he'd visit her through thisportal spiritually.
So it was kind of like ateleportation device, a
spiritual teleportation, so shecould be at home.
But she'll open up the closetand he'll come through.
Just to give everyone abackground as to what their
(06:54):
mindset here was.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, just the cuckoo for Coco Puffs crazy, yes.
So around August was also whenLori removed Tylee and JJ from
her $2 million life insurancepolicy and she instead made her
oldest son, kobe Ryan, the onlybeneficiary, and this was on
August 12.
(07:15):
And then this is around thesame time that she moved to
Rexburg and she submitted arental application saying that
her income was the amount ofcombined social security
benefits for herself, jj andTylee.
So she was getting socialsecurity benefits from the death
of her husband, charles Fallow,and Tylee was getting it from
(07:38):
her own dad, and I'm assuming JJwas getting benefits because he
was autistic.
He was, yeah, so, and she wassupposed to be using those JJ
though those benefits for herchildren, not using it for the
rental application.
And now the things start gettingreally creepy here.
(07:59):
So there's direct deposits fromTylee, who is the daughter.
Her social security payments gofrom her account to a newly
created joint account for Loriand Tylee.
So, all of a sudden, lori nowhas access to her money and
between August 31st and earlySeptember 2019, lori, tylee, jj,
(08:22):
alex and Melanie Paolauskimoved to Rexburg, idaho, which
was very near where Chad Daybelllived.
Now Melanie at this point, ifyou remember, had already dumped
her husband Brandon, and thatwas around the same time that
(08:43):
Lori started telling her bestienamed Melanie Gibb that JJ was
possessed.
And that was around the samemonth that Tylee realized that
the money she was supposed tohave in her bank account to pay
for her auto payment for herJeep came back with insufficient
(09:07):
funds and her bank account hadbeen wiped out.
So this is going to be like alittle like we have a timeline
here, but because there's somuch information, we figured
like it would be good just to gostep by step, because it's very
confusing, because when thekids disappear, it's actually
(09:27):
not when they get discoveredthat they disappear.
So that's absolutely right.
It's one of those strange cases.
So on September 3 2019, lorienrolled JJ at Kennedy
Elementary School in Rathberg,and on September 8, chad signed
an application with Tammy toincrease her life insurance to
(09:49):
the maximum amount allowed onthe policy, and now um.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I believe they're living in the same.
By the way, I believe they'reliving in the same building
complex.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Oh, they're in the same complex, not just the same
town.
Okay, yeah, which I guess makessense because the love is so
strong, apparently.
So on September 8 is also thesame day that Tiley, jj, lori
and Alex visited YellowstoneNational Park.
And this is when officials sayis the last time anyone saw
(10:23):
Tiley alive, and that was thelast time.
There was a last in personpurchase from Tiley's bank
account.
And when it was discovered thatthis was the last time anybody
saw her, the FBI was askinganybody for help who may have
photos of the family during thatday to the park.
(10:45):
So September 8 is the last timethat anybody sees Tiley alive.
And on September 9 phonerecords place Cox, which is Alex
Cox, which is Lori's brother,on Chad's property in the
general area where investigatorslater found Tiley's remains.
So it goes to seem like she waskilled on September 8 and was
(11:10):
buried on September 9.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And Chad Debel, from what I understand.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, but he, jjj, dies later.
There's also phone records thatshow that Chad texted Tammy
Chad is the boyfriend, chadDebel and told her he shot a
raccoon and buried it in theirpet cemetery.
By what the FBI and the policebelieve, this was Tiley's body.
(11:37):
He also said that he found theraccoon when he was burning the
lot the limb debris by the firepit, so it's like from the trees
, which makes sense becauseTiley's body was very badly
burned.
This is September 9.
So this is when the actualdeath happens of Tiley.
On September 10 and the 16th theLori deposited money into
(12:00):
Tiley's account, but then it wasimmediately Venmo to Kobe Ryan,
lori's son, and police laterfound that there were 29
deposits into Tiley's accountfrom Lori's account and then the
money was immediately Venmo toto Ryan.
So again, I don't know that shekilled her daughter for money.
Right now sure seems like it.
Well, also, finally, did notlike Chad Debel.
(12:22):
So mid September 2019.
Alex's girlfriend, zulema, wholater becomes his wife, said she
visited Lori but didn't seeTiley.
And when she asked Lori whereTiley was, lori allegedly said
quote she had to be freed.
And when Zulema asked what shemeant and Lori put her hand in
(12:49):
Zulema's face and said don't askso on September 18, 2019.
Jj and Lori's social securitybenefits were deposited and they
were each 1951 each and Loriwas still lying to people saying
(13:12):
that she had a teenage daughterwho was at school in Rexonburg,
and so she was kind of keepingup the pretense that Tiley was
still alive, even though shewasn't and she was very
convincing manipulator I have tothrow out.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
there she was.
It was big, you know, with thepageant background.
You know like being on TVwhenever there was a spotlight,
even when arrested for all ofthis really enjoyed the
spotlight.
So she's able to convincepeople of whatever she wants and
I think that that really helpsher to the benefit over this
time.
(13:48):
Perhaps I'm going to learn fromher mom Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So this is around the time where people start trying
to ask where JJ was.
So, um, supposedly she.
The police found Lori searchingthe internet for Kennedy
(14:13):
Elementary, rexburg, idaho phonenumber and defined possess.
And on September September 22is when people say was the last
time that JJ was seen alive.
So Melanie Gibb and herboyfriend, david Warwick,
visited Lori in Idaho and thiswas September 22.
(14:33):
And Lori lied to Melanie andtold her that Tiley was at BYU
in Idaho with her roommates.
Tiley was never enrolled at BYUIdaho or at any school.
When Melanie asked Lori whereTiley's belongings were, lori
had said that she was put instorage.
(14:54):
So there's no hint of Tileyanywhere in the house.
And during the weekend thatMelanie and her boyfriend were
there, they interacted with Chadseveral times and they said
that Chad and Lori were veryromantic together and that Chad
also allegedly told Warwick thatTammy was a good wife, but her
(15:16):
time was coming up and that wasa direct quote and he claimed
that he had had a dream thatTammy was going to die by the
time she was 50.
Now during this weekend therewas some crazy talk from Lori to
Melanie about how JJ had anevil spirit in him and she said
(15:37):
that she found this out fromChad, so Chad was the one that
told her and that JJ's behaviorwas becoming more and more
difficult and he would saythings like, quote I love Satan.
And when Melanie saw JJ forthat last time, she said he
looked pretty normal.
And Lori said that she wasn'tgoing to be taking care of JJ
(16:01):
much longer because Kay, her nowdead husband's sister, was
going to be taking care of JJgoing forward.
So the last time anyone saw JJalive was on 10th, at 1030pm on
September 22nd 2019.
And Melanie saw Alex, thebrother, taking JJ upstairs and
(16:25):
that was the last proof of lifethat there's a photo actually of
JJ sitting on a couch in Lori'sfront room and that's with the
red pajamas, with the redpajamas with the saying sleepy
hero on it.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And to, as a reminder , the same spirits and demons
were entirely as well, which wetouch upon in part one, hillary
being one of these evil demonsthat was possessing zombies,
rather possessing her daughter.
So, yes, once again, chad'sinfluence of Doomsday, the fact
(16:59):
that people have demons and evilspirits inside of them, lead
Lori to believe it, and sheabsolutely believes it.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
and they've gone missing now, yeah, yeah.
So this is so.
September 23rd 2019, which isthe day after this is where the
Rexburg Police Departmentbelieve that JJ was killed and
Melanie stayed in Tiley's roomthat weekend.
Warwick stayed in JJ's roomduring their visit, but Melanie
(17:29):
told the cops later that Davidwoke up sometime after midnight
and he was very troubled becausehe said he had were like the
worst nightmare in his life.
And Melanie tried to go intoLori's room but the door was
locked and neither Lori nor Chadresponded to her texts.
Wow.
(17:51):
That morning, lori said that shetold Warwick that JJ had had an
episode climbing on thecabinets and fridge and knocked
over a picture of Jesus Christ,because God forbid that happens.
And when David Warwick asked ifhe could give JJ a blessing,
lori told him that Alex wasalready taking care of him and
they, melanie and David, leftthat home and that was the last
(18:15):
time they saw JJ.
And whenever Melanie askedwhere JJ was, lori would never
tell her.
So September 24, which is thenext day, lori emailed Kennedy
Elementary and said that JJ wasbeing removed from Kennedy and
he was going to Louisiana withhis grandparents.
The principal called Lori andsaid that they could send JJ's
(18:41):
records out to Louisiana.
When he was there and Lorichanged her story and said oh no
, they're not moving toLouisiana, they're going to
actually home school him.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So which which could again, in her manipulation
tactics, could make sense,considering he was autistic,
right, so they could make anargument for that.
You know he needed specialattention.
Therefore, we're going to homeschool, I mean it just all kind
of works out.
And also, I believe that's oneof the reasons why Chad let's
(19:18):
face it felt that he waspossessed and a demon Is the
fact that he was probably a verydifficult child to raise, which
is why I think, goodness, thesystem was going to adopt sort
of take over, but never had theopportunity.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well, and I mean, do we even know if that was
actually the case, that she wasgoing to adopt?
Or that these people want JJ'smoney, right, because they just
seem to be getting rid of peopleso they can be together?
I mean, that to me seems likethe whole goal of all this
massacre of children and spouses.
It's like we got to be together.
(19:56):
We've been together before.
You're a prophet, I'm theprophet's right hand woman, and
we're going to like experience,bliss and joy ruling over dozens
of planets out in outer space.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So it makes sense.
It makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So the police found on September 30 that Lori
searched the internet for quotehow to get the backseat out of
my Jeep Wrangler and quote andTiley actually drove a Jeep
Wrangler before she was murdered.
Now, when they found her body,they could not tell how she died
because of how badly burned itwas.
So on October 1, 2019, lorirented a 10 by 10 storage unit
(20:40):
in Rexburg and her and whatpeople seem to think was Alex,
her brother, they went in andout of the unit nine times, and
Chad also were in the storagefacility together as well, and
there was some thought thatmaybe that's where they were
hiding the bodies initially, butobviously they were found on
(21:03):
Chad's property later.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, Alex is a cell phone data.
Definitely placed them atChad's backyard for
approximately two hours.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, and now this is around the time that people
start getting shot at.
So October 2, 2019, brandon,melanie's ex husband, he's back
in Arizona and he was returningto his home and he was shot at
by someone and the person washolding a gun with a silencer
and shot at him in his car andat that point Brandon said that
(21:33):
the only people who knew wherehe lived was Melanie and for
others that he completelytrusted.
Arizona Central reported theshooter was driving a Jeep
registered to Charles fallow,who was dead, and the detective
Ray, her most or most silo,contacted the Rexburg police
(21:56):
department, contacted theGilbert police about the
incident and they asked them toconduct surveillance on Lori
Daybell's apartment around thistime.
So the police were looking atLori's apartment.
They saw Chad and Lori going inand out, but never saw a
(22:18):
teenage girl or young boy, andthis was the day that Lori also
purchased a wedding ring onAmazon which would later be seen
on her finger at her marriageto Chad in Hawaii this is a
deliberate system.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
In October they start getting their wedding rings and
it really is much longer afterthe children go missing, tammy
passes away that they do go toHawaii and it's actually ten
years life insurance that paysfor the Hawaiian wedding.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, of course, because these people are
apparently are very, very smartabout life insurance policies.
So October 9th, tammy calls 911and set a masked man shot at
her in her driveway with whatshe thought at the time was a
paintball gun.
It was later indicated in courtdocuments that Alex Cox, lori
(23:08):
Daybell's brother, attempted toshoot and kill Tammy that day.
That was October 9th.
On October 10th, ocoby Ryan gotmore money from Tyles Venmo
with a message of we love you,and the Rexford Police
Department saw that thetransaction was actually made
(23:29):
using Tyles phone, but the IPaddress for the transaction was
registered to an address inKansas City, missouri, where
Lori and her niece, melaniePalauski were.
So they connected the phone tothem on October 19, 2019.
So this is 10 days after Tammywas shot at.
(23:49):
Chad calls 911 and said Tammydied in her sleep.
When the detectives visit theirhome, they determined that she
died between 1230 and 1230 am to2am and Chad called 911 around
6am that he found his wifedeceased and he claimed that
(24:10):
Tammy had been experiencinghealth problems previous to this
and when the detectivesdetectives came to the home,
they noted pink foam at hermouth and the chief medical
examiner, eric Christiansen,said that was a manifestation of
a pulmonary edema, and that'swhy they believed it was due to
a heart attack, and they claimthat her cause of death was
(24:30):
natural.
By the way, this woman is, like, not yet 50.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So I have 50 and it's actually it's Chad that's there
and then the eldest of five, hegoes into the room and it's
just in shock.
He doesn't actually understandthem.
He thinks that first she'sstill asleep.
So then the horror of justknowing that his mom, his dad,
you know, his dad's doing thewhole lack.
And that happens to be so, youknow, I think his guy.
(24:57):
I understand the son.
When I saw an interview withthe five children, he had a
really bad feeling thatsomething was up because, as you
just mentioned, she was fit,she was young, so yeah, no sense
and so, because the medicalexaminer said that it was
(25:17):
natural, there was no autopsyperformed.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Nobody really thought it was suspicious, except for
maybe that one person that youtalked about and they believe
Chad story, Of course, whenMelanie asked Lori about Tammy's
death, Lori said quote she hada dark entity in her and we had
to do what we could to get thespirit out of her.
And quote Lori also said alsotold Melanie that Tammy was
(25:45):
getting suspicious, that Chadwas having an affair and that's
a red.
That's allegedly when sheturned dark.
So that's convenient.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, you know you would think it would.
Yeah, it would be enough withwith Tammy out of the picture
and in fact, when Chad aroundthe same time that I guess
Melanie is asking Lori, hey, youknow how do you feel about this
Chad also was asked by friendsare you okay?
(26:16):
And he was like I'm fine by allaccounts, he had completely
moved on.
Yeah, and he just accepted this.
You know he he after all knewhe was a prophet and he knew
about doomsday and all thezombies and things, and he was
fine, he just completely movedon.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So that, and also she was buried on October 22nd in
Springville, utah.
They had a memorial service inRexburg the next day and Lori
was that same day looking atwedding dresses.
Chad was moving into herapartment and they were like
things were going fast and tothe point that on October 26,
(26:56):
chad visited a couple in his LDSward, the Gilbert's, and he
brought Lori over to them andthey were like like two
teenagers, the Gilbert said, andhis arm was around her, she was
giggling and laughing, theywere like on top of each other
and she never mentioned herchildren, that she had children
(27:20):
to this couple and the couplewere like this is weird.
We've never seen Chad behavelike this.
And, mind you, chad also hashow many kids?
Five.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So 30 years of marriage, 30 years 30 years.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
So it's like, yeah, anyway, so on November 4 2019,
tiley Jeep was seized by theRexburg Police Department and
because, again, it was seen, Idon't know actually why they
seized it.
Do you know why they seizedthat?
Because it was never reportedmissing, but I don't know why it
(27:55):
was seized.
But maybe this is when theRexburg Police Department are
like wait a minute, there'ssomething fishy going on.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, I mean, if you ask me, I feel I had something
to do with which Jeep was thatwas?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Charles Charles Valos Jeep was the one that was used
at Brandon.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean, I think it could just be one of those
things where they had the forher vehicle information and they
knew she was missing and theyjust saw the car.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Maybe they don't know she's missing yet.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
At this point, they don't know.
She has like a where she, ohshe's over at this thing and so
I believe the wood cocks.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
The wood cocks gets a welfare check for JJ on
November 26.
So we're not there yet.
So I don't know why they seizeher Jeep.
Maybe it was dumped somewhere,probably something to look into.
But just so everybody knows, onNovember 5, 2019, chad and
(29:02):
Laurie get married in Hawaii.
Yeah, and they come back tolive in Rexburg.
Now the police said that Chadtold witnesses that Laurie had
no children under 18 and Laurietold people that highly died
years earlier.
So she's already like yeah, no,my kids are gone On November 7,
if you're getting married.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
If you're getting married, why?
When you have your children,you know right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
On those November 7, zulema and Alex cock got engaged
.
Cocks got engaged during a tripto Rexburg and JJ and Tiley
were obviously nowhere nearRexburg on this trip and Zulema
said that she didn't know wherethey were but got photos from
them in Hawaii.
So apparently Laurie wastelling the family that did know
(29:53):
that these kids existed, thatthey were in Hawaii and sending
photos, which is weird.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
And then, hey, I do believe this is around the time
timeline where they decide iseverything is starting to get
suspicious that chats familyagrees to have I mean to have
her body exhumed.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, oh, that's okay , all right, so that's that.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's the exclamation, okay, that makes
sense Based upon his behavior.
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, and the fact that he put up his policy
up right, yeah, yeah.
So where are we?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
in the body exhumed they find that Tammy had bruises
and she died of this fixation.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, so this was an interesting thing.
On mid November 2019, the Chadand Laurie visit the Gilbert's
again which was the LDS couplefrom his ward, and at this point
Gilbert said she knew Laurie'skids were missing and she
confronted Chad about the factthat he said Laurie's daughter
had died and he denied that henever said that.
(31:11):
And then Gilbert asked Chaddidn't highly deserve a life, a
car, a boyfriend, and Chadreportedly responded quote she
didn't like people and shedidn't like me, because November
18, 2019 is when K Woodcock gotthe feeling that she should
check the computer and noticedthat Lori was using her dead
(31:40):
brother's Amazon account to buya beach wedding dress, a bathing
suit, linen top, malachitewedding rings, and so, um, this
is a reason she's so brazen.
Yeah.
So this is when she was likeokay, you guys, I think we need
to call in for the welfare check.
And on November 24th 2019, alexCox was given a quote,
(32:06):
patriarchal blessing quote byChad, because now he had the
power of the quote church of thefirstborn and quote.
And in this blessing, alex isnow a missionary and he's going
to be opening the portals oftime and he said that in
previous creations Alex was avaliant warrior fighting for
(32:27):
truth and righteousness, alwaysseeking to do what was right and
what was right was being rightby his sister, lori, which I
have to assume that Alex killedboth of these children.
So on November 22nd I'm sorry,november 26th 2019, the Rexburg
Police Department finallyconduct the welfare check on JJ
(32:51):
and the K Woodcock said that shehad not spoken to him in months
.
When they arrived, jj was nothome and they saw Chad Daybell
and Alex Cox unloading a pickup.
So when Detective Hermosoloasked Cox if Lori was home, he
said no and he said that theywere doing a welfare check on JJ
and that Alex looked veryscared and turned to Chad.
(33:11):
Chad did not say anything andwhen Hermosolo asked Cox where
JJ was, he said he was inLouisiana, which Hermosolo said
was impossible.
So, hermosolo, he asked forLori's phone number and Alex
said he did not have it.
And then he and anotherdetective knocked on Lori's door
but nobody answered andDetective Hermosolo said he saw
(33:34):
Chad leaving his car and stoppedhim leaving in his car.
So Chad was like making a runfor it and asked Chad when was
the last time he saw JJ?
And Chad said he last saw JJ inOctober in apartment 107 with
Lori Vallow.
And when Hermosolo asked howChad knew Lori, he said he
hardly knew her except for thefact that he's her husband now
(33:57):
and that they had only met acouple of times.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And also down the line, both Lori and Chad will
eventually cut ties with Alexcompletely.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yes, because, no surprise, these people are
pathologically insane and whenthey they, he would not give
Lori's number until one of themcaved and Chad claimed he didn't
want to originally give themher number because he felt that
(34:30):
Hermosolo was accusing him ofsomething, and Hermosolo, he
called in more detectives andthey got a warrant to go into
the home.
But they didn't because Lorifinally returned a call and
agreed to open the door to thetwo detectives.
And then Lori claimedoriginally that JJ was with her
friend Melanie Gibbon, arizona,watching Frozen 2.
(34:51):
Melanie said she originally didnot answer the police because
she didn't know what to do.
She's like oh, my friend'slying and it's the police, but
I'm just going to lie to thepolice, which seems like a
really bad choice.
I don't know Like.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I'm freaking me.
She was part of this group.
Yeah, as part of his group.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well no, she was never part of the cult.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Okay, her claim Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
But she did finally confess to the police officers
that JJ was never with her andthat Lori told her to lie about
his whereabouts and to takerandom children at the movie
theater to show them, yeah, yeah.
So at this point they're likeokay, this is something really,
really weird.
So on November 27, which is aday later, the Rexburg Police
(35:43):
Department they served thesearch warrant, but when they
arrived to the apartment, chadand Lori were gone.
They did enter the apartmentand found that almost everything
had been taken and that it wasnearly empty.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Is this where they go back to Hawaii?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I believe so.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
And so in the garage they found camouflage suit, lots
of ammunition, a rifle, ahandgun, rope, duct tape,
several silencers.
That sounds and stand in theworld.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And stand up.
What are you supposed to do?
I don't know.
Man, a closet portal is notenough.
I was not In the world.
You have to get to the HolyLand and you know you gotta stay
strapped.
You have to have an AR.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, and they discovered emails from Chad and
books written by Chad.
They also searched Alex Cox'sapartment and Melanie's
apartment and foundhazmat-looking white suits and a
rental agreement for a storageunit in Rexburg.
When they tried to get a holdof Lori and Chad, their phones
were shut off.
So Chad and Lori flew to Liahu,Li Lihu, Hawaii, on December
(36:55):
1st.
Of course their children werenot with them.
Now, December 2nd was, I'msorry.
December 6th was when MelanieGibb contacted the police and
said yeah, Chad and Lori calledme on November 26th and told me
to lie about JJ's location.
And this is December 11th iswhen Tammy Debell's death is
(37:18):
said as suspicious by theFreeman County Sheriff's Office
and her body was exhumed and,according to a Utah medical
examiner, she died at the handsof another and died of
asphyxiation.
They also found that there werebruises on Tammy's arms.
That happened in the hoursaround the time of her death and
quote, they were consistentwith someone being restrained
(37:40):
and would be consistent withasphyxia being cause of death as
well.
And that was from the court.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Which, towards the end of this, I will explain why.
There's a pattern here to theway that these victims pass.
And I also did hear thatconversation where I guess
Melanie is on the phone withLori and she's just like but
where are they?
And it's just this really wildconversation where Lori is just
(38:09):
so nonchalant that she buys it.
You know, I feel a lot ofpeople just bought her being so.
In other words, if she's notfreaking out as would be the
normal expectation in a reactionto where my children and is
everything okay, and not even bespecific to what they're up to
and what they're doing, you knowit could be believable.
(38:32):
You can manipulate someone intobelieving things are fine if
you act as though things arefine.
So I think that's what happenedwith a lot of these victims
Victims in terms of just beinginvolved and have them, ask them
to lie and stories like this.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, yeah, and I also.
This is where it feels weird,like so, december 11th is when
Tammy Stabel's death issuspicious.
December 12th, alex Cox passesaway, reportedly from natural
causes, which again is kind oflike that's weird.
(39:09):
And December 20th, 2019, iswhen the Rexburg Police
Department finally announcedthat JJ and Tiley are missing
and they are the ones thatconnect the suspicious death of
Tammy to JJ and Tiley.
And the next day they said thatChad and Laurie were persons of
(39:29):
interest.
And December 30th is whenMelanie has a conversation with
the officers, saying that sheasked Laurie where her kids were
.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's that conversation.
She recorded it, incidentally,and played it back to the top.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
And they said she's.
Laurie said I know exactlywhere they are.
Yeah, of course she does.
Of course, of course she does.
So January 3rd, 2020 is whenthey get a search warrant to
serve Chad's home in Salem,idaho, and they recover 43 items
, including cell phones,journals, computers, medications
(40:06):
, and they are sent to the FBIlab.
January 7th is when KayWoodcock and her husband
traveled to Rexburg andannounced a $20,000 reward for
information leading to therecovery of the kids.
This is when the media goesnuts butts.
I remember this.
It was all.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
It's interesting to know that they actually been
missing for quite a while beforethe labelling of the missing
children.
That's a real good gap of timeright there.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, exactly that's why I thought that the timeline
was so important, because theygo, they become dead.
They are killed months beforethey are actually found missing,
which is insane to me, becauseI don't know how do kids slip
through the cracks like this?
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I mean, I also have a forensic slip through sometimes
in the case of Tammy Daybell,like when you're examining her.
How are you missing that thefirst time?
And that happens what doeshappen quite frequently, where
bodies have to get exhumed justto double check.
Second opinion in murder casesis kind of the norm,
(41:20):
unfortunately sometimes.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And a lot of more can happen sooner.
Right, exactly we are now at.
Now everybody's gettinginvolved, the families are
getting involved and January 10,matt Daybell, who's Chad's
brother, leads for him tocooperate with the investigation
(41:43):
.
There's, like you know, likekids are missing and he, of
course, starts separatinghimself from Chad because he
claims his religious claims andbooks are not of his immediate
family's belief.
So his immediate family has alittle association with him.
And on January 25th is when theKauai Police Department served
(42:05):
Lori with a notice stating shemust produce JJ and Tiley to the
Idaho Department of Health andWelfare or the Rexburg Police
Department within five days.
On January 26th, nate Eaton,with the East Idaho News,
confronts Chad and Lori inHawaii.
When they're asked where theirchildren are they and what
happened to them, they do notanswer.
(42:27):
And, strangely enough, onJanuary 30th 2020, Lori misses
the 5pm deadline to produce JJand Tiley.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
And she's presented on the papers.
Incidentally, in Hawaii she'sby the pole site.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Of course she is.
Of course she has absolutely noremorse whatsoever.
And that's the same day thatKay Woodcock holds a news
conference saying like howdisappointed she is that you
know they're just not tellingthem where the kids are.
And a month later, it takesthem a month, or maybe a little
(43:01):
less than month.
But February 20th 2020, policein Kauai arrest Lori on a $5
million warrant from MadisonCounty and she is charged with
two felony counts of desertionand non-support of dependent
children.
She is also charged withresisting officers, criminal
solicitation and contempt ofcourt, and six days later she is
(43:23):
extradited.
She waves her extradition toIdaho and she says you know, she
wants to go back to Idaho whereshe will be charged, and she
tried multiple times to reduceher bail, but she couldn't get
it reduced, so she was like oh,I guess I'm going to have to go
(43:44):
back.
So on March 5th 2020, she isfinally extradited from Hawaii
to Rexburg, and I'm thinking thetrial itself is in Boise.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
by sitting right here , yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
And I think at this point would be a good time to
stop, because the part threewill go into her insane trial
which, yeah, was you know.
Again, we told you the resultsshe is found guilty.
But for the next episode is wewill go through her trial.
(44:24):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (44:26):
We haven't even gotten to them discovering JJ.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Exactly.
So let's do that all next weekand stay tuned for kind of.
I mean, I guess it's theclosing act of this insane
multifamily case where there's awoman assistance, center of
everything, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
And once again, a case with.
Well, this is a great doubleway, because it's technology and
religion.
Yes, and you know technologythese days and the days of
murdering, heinous crimes.
You know we have so muchinformation, including DNA,
which was something, as you know, wasn't available, and then
religion just plays such a rolein a lot of these murders.
(45:09):
So, yeah, absolutely, it's justlike an intense case.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
It is absolutely an intense case.
So thanks again for stickingwith us.
I hope that that timeline madesense, cause again, when we at
least when I started researchingthis case the tsunami of
information was so hard to keeptrack of because there's so many
players, so many familyconnections.
(45:36):
And the timeline was weirdbecause it doesn't.
It's not a clean timeline, likewhere the kids go missing and
then somebody notices them thenext day and say, oh hey, the
kids are missing.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
So I know we're like here talking and I'm like oh,
and then this happened Honestlyin my, in my research as well.
My notes just kind of fly allover the place because you'll
start going chronologically andthen you're like oh, and then it
connects back to somethingthat's at the start of your list
, you know.
So it definitely was a littlebit of a place, so it definitely
helps to have this kind of timemap.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Exactly so.
Thank you again, everybody forjoining us and stay tuned for
next week, part three, the trialand discovery of the bodies in
the Lori Vallow DeVal case.
All right, have a great week,everybody, bye, bye.
(46:55):
This episode was sponsored bythe Creek Killer book one in the
Harriet Harper thriller serieswritten by me, dominica best.
What would you do if you read?
The police found your body in acreek?
Find out in the creek killeravailable on Amazon.
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
(47:16):
It helps other listeners findthis podcast.
So Dominica best presents thedeviant mind.
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, visit the best
storytelling networkcom whereyou'll find show notes, my books
, links to social media and muchmore.
Join my Patreon for specialsubscriber perks, like two extra
(47:37):
exclusive episodes a month anda Q and a with me at patreoncom
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Slash the deviant mind podcastUntil next time.
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