October 5, 2023 • 26 mins
Dominika and Chris discuss the levers of justice up to the trial, then discuss the evidence against Lori. Tag along as they examine the revealing text messages between Lori and Chad, Lori's delusions, and the jury's intensive deliberation leading to Lori's conviction. The Lori Vallow case is a spine-chilling testament to how far people may go.
Hosted by Dominika Best and Christopher Gordon.
Visit thebeststorytellingnetwork.com where you’ll find show notes, my books, links to sources for this episode, social media and much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Deviant Mind.
This is Dominica.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And this is Christopher.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And thank you for coming back to us on part three
of Lori Vallow Debell.
Sorry that we missed a week,but I was out at a conference
and I somehow stupidly thoughtthat I would have time to
actually record it at saidconference, but of course that
didn't.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
You've been busy.
You've been busy.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was busy shmoosing other authors, so we're back
this week and, yeah, we're goingto finish off this story with
the trial and her kids beingfound, unfortunately deceased.
So when we last spoke a coupleof weeks ago, we talked about
(01:20):
that.
She was finally extradited toRexburg from Hawaii on March 5,
2020, and she made her actualfirst court appearance on March
6.
And Judge Farron Eddins hereduced her bail to $1 million,
but, of course, she was stillunable to postpone and remained
in jail.
Now what they were holding herfor was conspiracy, attempted
(01:48):
murder or murder, because, ofcourse, they had not yet found
the children.
This is April 9, 2020.
There was some issues aboutAlex, if you remember.
He mysteriously died.
That was her brother and alsokind of her bringer of death,
her assassin, as it were.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
As well as his attorney.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And as well as his attorney and they actually found
autopsy said that he actuallydied of natural causes and there
were blood clots in his lungs.
That was on May 8, 2020.
Remember, this is already COVIDtime, so I'm kind of wondering
if both him and his lawyer gotdown by COVID.
(02:33):
So she's hanging out in jailsince March 6.
Finally, on June 9, 2020, therewas a search warrant that was
served at Chad's home by theRexburg Police Department, fbi
and Fremont County Sheriff'sOffice and, sadly, within hours,
the remains of the children, jjand Tiley, were discovered
(02:55):
buried on the property.
And I don't know if you guysremember from the past two
episodes, but there was sometalk about how Alex had taken
something back to the to the PetCemetery and Chad had mentioned
in one of the phone calls abouta Pet Cemetery.
(03:17):
Well, it turns out that Tiley'sremains were found at that Pet
Cemetery near the fire pit, andJJ's remains were found near the
pond on Chad's property.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yes, and Alex's cell phone data placed him at Chad's
backyard in these areas forroughly two hours.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, so obviously we're thinking that Alex was the
one who actually buried thesechildren down there and they.
Chad actually called Lori whilethe officers were on his
property and because of course,all of these phone calls are
(04:02):
what are they called?
Recorded?
Yeah, lori asked if they hadseized anything and Chad said no
, they're still searching.
And Chad told her to call theattorney, which was at the time
Mark Means.
And of course, chad at thispoint got super busy.
So between 950 am and 10 am hestarted transferring money to
(04:26):
each one of his three kids.
The total was $24,000.
And he made the pauses of$8,000 each to each one of his
kids and there was only like$4,000 left in that account.
At 1130 am, chad was seenleaving his daughter's house
(04:47):
across the street at a high rateof speed, even though he was
told that he needed to stay orbe accompanied by an officer.
He of course was quickly takeninto custody and booked into
Fremont County jail on chargesof concealment, distribution or
(05:07):
alteration of evidence.
Of course, the remains werefound on his property.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
If I may, I was going to jump in and ask at one point
Chad's family allows their mom,who also passed away in this
horrific fiasco.
They started suspecting that,after this and what's going on,
that their father may have hadsomething to do with their mom's
(05:39):
death, so they actually exhumedher body.
I don't do you remember in thetimeline if this happens before
or after the?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
the children are found.
They, I believe.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And, incidentally, once they exhumed the body, they
found that she was suffocatedand there were bruises all over
her body.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yes, I'm trying to look through the timeline right
now.
That happened actually before.
That was on December 11th of2019.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
When they exhumed her body.
Yeah, Okay okay.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So this happened before.
But I mean, I'm sure thechildren must have thought at
this point that he had somethingto do with it, because, again,
he quickly got together withthis woman whose children were
missing yeah, I mean, that's awhole lot of missing and death
around, you know because herex-husband had been killed too,
(06:44):
right, so yeah, as a triggerwarning when these children are
found.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
You know, I'm just going to quickly say that Tilly
was burned to death and JJ wastaped all over and died of
asphyxiation.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, which is horrifying.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
They believed.
They believed the day bells,that one had to be tied and
bound in order for the demons tonot escape their dead body.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I see, yeah, I see.
So once these children werefound, things of course went
into the justice system andeverything moves very slowly.
So the prosecutors filed newcharges against Lori on June
29th, which included two countsof conspiracy to commit
(07:43):
destruction, alteration orconsummate of evidence.
Chad made his first courtappearance via video from jail
because, again, remember, thisis COVID times.
His bail was set at $1 millionon June 10th 2020.
And Lori pleaded not guilty tomisdemeanor, resisting or
(08:04):
obstruction officers' criminalsolicitation to commit a crime
and contempt of court on July15th 2020.
On July 2nd sorry, I skipped oneprosecutors dismissed charges
of desertion and non-supportivechildren against Lori because
apparently she killed them, soshe didn't desert them.
On August 27th, no, on August21st 2020, chad appeared in
(08:34):
front of District Judge StephenBoyce and pleaded not guilty to
his charges.
And on August 27th, chad'sattorney John Pryor asked Boyce
to dismiss the case against Chad, but that was denied.
And on September 1st 2020,madison County prosecuting
attorney Rob Wood filed a motionto combine the cases of Chad
(08:54):
and Lori, and that took untilMarch 2023 that they would have
separate cases, as Lori did notwaive her right to a speedy
trial and she also appeared atan arraignment in District Court
on September 10th 2020 andpleaded not guilty to two counts
(09:17):
of conspiracy to commitdestruction, alteration and
concealment of evidence.
So this was all the stuff aboutmissing kids, right, and them
destroying evidence.
They were actually not chargedwith first-degree murder and
conspiracy to commit murderuntil May 24th 2021.
So that was like how manymonths later?
(09:40):
Almost like eight months later.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And she actually Lori was committed on June 8th 2021,
to the Idaho Department ofHealth and Welfare, where a
psychologist deemed her not fitfor trial.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
She the judge rather was adamant about not having any
television, so this trial wasnot televised.
Every now and then on Core TV,another outlet, you would see
clips, but overall they didn'twant any television in there
because they were afraid thatshe was going to play up to the
(10:19):
camera during the trial.
The trial only lasted two daysher trial, incidentally, and
nonetheless I think maybe Ibrought this up in episode one,
but she was still all aboutappearances, right and
presentation.
Yes, so she and working withother inmates.
(10:39):
The inmates were like hey, ifyou want lipstick, use a Jolly
Rancher and some water and we'llsmear it on.
Here's some eyeliner we made.
So she did herself up to lookpresentable in the courtroom,
despite being behind bars for awhile.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Which we will get to that, because that was her trial
just happened in 2023.
But 2021 was a bunch of legalwrangling as far as well she.
On June 24th 2021, a grand juryin Arizona indicted Lori for
conspiracy to commit murder inthe death of her fourth husband,
(11:13):
charles Vallow.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So those Arizona proceedings were on hold while
she faced the charges in Idaho.
Meanwhile, chad pleaded notguilty to all charges in the
indictment.
His children actually attendedthis meeting.
July 29th, the prosecutorsdropped a destruction,
alteration or concealment ofevidence charges against both of
them and on August 5th 2021,prosecutors said they would seek
(11:38):
the death penalty against Chad,stating quote the nature and
magnitude of these crimeswarrant the possibility of the
highest possible punishment.
End quote.
On October 5th, the Daybelltrial was moved from Fremont
County to Ada County and then,on December 28th 2021, judge
Boyce ordered that Mark Means,lori's attorney, could no longer
(11:59):
represent her.
He cited a conflict of interestin representing both Daybells
as well as concerns about hislegal competency.
So so that's all of 2021.
So it's like a bunch of legallegal wrangling, you know,
figuring out which charges weregoing to happen first.
So we get to 2022.
(12:21):
On March 21st 2022, john Pryor,chad's attorney, requested to
severe Chad's case from Lori's,but that was denied.
However, it was later separated, like we spoke about.
Yeah, on April 11th 2022, boyceissued a written order that
Lori was now competent for trialand she released from the
(12:42):
welfare facility and herarraignment was set for April
19th.
When she was arraigned on April19th, she did not speak and her
new attorney, jim Archibald,pleaded not guilty on her behalf
.
And then, on May 2nd 2022,prosecutors announced that they
would also pursue the deathpenalty against Lori, but
(13:03):
unfortunately, it was laterruled off the table by Boyce.
And on May 26th 2022, boyceannounced that the trials would
be held together in January 2023.
But this was later changedbecause there was new evidence.
Now, on August in 2022, sheLori appeared in court and she
(13:26):
was smiling.
She was wearing a band on herring finger, and that was when
Lori's attorneys filed a motionagainst asking the cameras be
banned from the courtroom andBoyce granted that motion.
And again on October 6th 2022,lori's case was put on hold,
again due to competency issues,but then a month later, she was
(13:48):
found competent for trial andthat was postponed until April
3rd 2023.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And this is something she contested and kept arguing
about and was very upset aboutduring this whole process.
Eventually, I mean, she juststarts to break mentally.
She doesn't understand what'sgoing on, she's not working well
with this attorney and anotherattorney.
It just becomes a complete mess, one which she is more or less
creating to prolong this wholeprocess.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Right, exactly which I mean.
Again, they were arrested in2021.
And you know now.
Finally, her trial starts onApril 3rd, which was the jury
selection began, the jury wasfinalized and on April, oh,
let's go back to the evidencethey found.
(14:35):
Oh yes in 2022.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Are you referring to the print?
Oh, okay, dominica.
Incidentally, that evidencedate turned up included some
fingerprints.
Yeah, there were fingerprintsfrom both Alex and Chad on the
(15:08):
duct tape, and then they found astrand of Lori's hair on JJ's
black bag that his body wasplaced in.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, okay, I mean, I guess the hair could have been
like well, you know, they livein the same house, but the
fingerprints, that's prettydamning, I would think.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
She had always claimed that she was at home,
when apparently, they say thatshe was home when all of this
happened, when the children weremurdered.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, so, and so the trial started.
And Shibu Kuku for Coco Puffs.
Yeah, yeah, so go ahead.
So were there transcripts ofthe trial?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So no, well, not to my knowledge.
I know that there are clipsthat one can go online and they
can view different parts of thetrial.
What's interesting is that herdefense decided to call no
witnesses whatsoever and theirwhole angle was that they blame
Chad and Alex themselves andthey started to paint Lori as a
(16:19):
brainwash victim.
Yeah, so she was really thevictim, just as the children
were.
She believed everything thatChad was telling her, including
demons possessing bodies,obviously people that he felt
needed to not be in the pictureanymore.
(16:40):
I mean, we're talking about hiswife, we're talking about her
children.
Perhaps they were inconvenientto lifestyle that he wanted to
have with Lori?
Yeah, but yeah, so Child wastwo days, deliberation was seven
hours.
Prior to all this one, she'sinterrogated one of her initial
(17:00):
interrogations.
She's just, she smiles an awfullot.
It's kind of like the stupor isthe light, where she knows
she's getting away withsomething and she knows that
perhaps the way that herchildren were murdered was all
for the good.
Like you get the sense, andit's the way she appeared on
(17:21):
trial.
To whatever photos or videofootage we see of her, there's
sort of more attention paid toher appearances and the
perception of her rather thanthis actual crime, this heinous
murders, these murders that tookplace.
So she's very withdrawn, bodylanguage wise, she just kind of
turtles up and she like enclaveswhile she's talking and
(17:44):
giggling and just trying tosmile and warm up to the
interrogator.
But for every question thatreally digs deep about, like,
well, where's the children?
What about the child?
Neglect and all this sort ofthing, it's very like I don't
know, I don't know.
You know it's, it's almost asthough she's trained herself or
that could be a result of beingbrainwashed by Chad, to a point
(18:06):
where she believes she reallyhad nothing to do with this.
She's like, well, she's notgoing to be brainwashed by
another world.
Yeah, but at the same time, Iguess, as you mentioned, they
reversed right, but they areinitially saying she couldn't
stand trial to that.
She could indeed stand trial,right, right, right, like along
(18:28):
the way, like you know, yourealize, and they're in towards
the end of this interrogation,you know it's there's a line
between belief, brainwashed andmurder.
You know, there comes a point,especially if it's a religion
that you believe in that has anysort of moral value even this
is based on aliens and this sortof crazy thing and demons in
(18:49):
the end of the world To.
You're fully aware and I guessthis is where they came up with
that notion of what's going on,of what you're doing, of what
the sanest crime is Right andyet there's no.
You know, you can't be ahairdresser for years, know
what's going on and on a switch,just because you meet someone
(19:10):
and believe in their faiths andtheir theologies, do you know
what's happening to yourchildren?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You're right, right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Seven counts.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Well, and you know, and the prosecutors you know,
they said this she used money,power and sex to get what she
wanted, which was a new husband,got rid of her kids and I think
, after all of the people whotook the stand, including her
sister, her supposed to quoteunquote friend, you know, it
(19:45):
seemed very close to see thatshe was just totally insane.
I mean, how do you like sheused the social security
benefits of her children they,she was obsessed with Chad and
(20:08):
and then she was really shadywhen people were asking about
where her children were.
You know what I mean.
So it's like she had knowledgethat she did a bad thing because
she didn't say you know, I gotrid of them because I got rid of
the demons in their bodies,which is an insane person would
say no, she lied, she lied tothe babysitter, she lied to the
(20:32):
school.
So she tried to cover it up,which means that she had agency.
I mean, she knew what she haddone was wrong.
There was a lots of textmessages that came out in trial
as well between Lori and Chad.
You know also about eliminatingzombies.
So it's like the story itselfis crazy, but at the same time,
(20:54):
because she tried to cover up,cover it up and Chad tried to
cover it up.
I mean, it just shows that thatthey knew what they had done
was wrong, and so I'm good thatwhen you look at other cults I
mean you know you have, say, theManson family.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You know these people followed this person where they
brainwashed.
Perhaps a lot of them wereinsecure.
Perhaps Lori was insecure andthis is why she did pageants and
appearances run for her.
But those women that you knowwent into that house and really
massacred everyone.
We're fully aware what theywere doing, right.
But then you have an example ofthat fellow over at the, that
(21:35):
monster over at the collegecampus who's grooming all these
guys and girls to live with him.
I'm blanking on his name, butwe did a program about this
fellow too who basicallyconvinced others to have sex
with one another and to hit oneanother.
You know and so, and they did.
So it does become this questionof like how much of it is
(21:58):
brainwashed and how much of itis like, fully aware of the pain
that you're inflicting onothers because you're being told
to.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And she did murder crosses a line to me.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I mean well, and she wanted her Chad and she didn't
want her children and herchildren didn't like Chad and
she was like, okay, done anddone.
So, as we said that the Jerrydeliberated for seven hours, on
May 12th she was found guilty ofmurder and conspiracy to commit
murder for her children.
She was also found guilty ofconspiracy to commit murder in
the death of Tammy Daybell andshe was also found guilty of
(22:31):
grand theft, and on July 31stshe was sentenced to five life
sentences in prison, only threeof which will run consecutively.
Judge Stephen Boyce denied herany chance of parole and victims
spoke at the sentencing.
And and she also spoke at thesentencing, quoting scripture
and saying that she spoke to herdead children and they approved
(22:52):
of her and what she had done tothem.
So she kept the crazy on untilthe very end, and then Chad
Daybell's trial is expected totake place in April 2024.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Only, according to her, one of her cellmates, a
younger incarcerated woman, she,in the middle of the night,
lori, will talk to her childrenand in the system itself she's
sort of assumed the motherlyrole where the really trouble
(23:25):
and upset will open up to her.
So I see Pretty interesting too.
The question remains you know,power, sex, murder.
Does she take this path?
Do you think Dominica, if she'snot involved in this cult, if
she doesn't fall into the yeah,into Chad's ideal?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I honestly think that , like we've spoken about of
other people, it takes thatspecific synergy of two people
to start with the murder, and Ithink that she might have been
capable of it, but it needed thesynergy of him and all the
crazy that he added to that andthe obsession that they had to
each other to essentially bringit to the murder.
(24:10):
Is she a victim of Chad's?
Well, she was the mother and asa mother, he's supposed to
protect your children, not killthem.
So I think it's a 50-50, likethey are both responsible for it
.
But I don't know if she wouldhave been capable of that
without meeting Chad and thesynergy of what that
relationship gave to them.
(24:30):
So, yeah, pretty crazy case.
Thank you for sticking with usover the three sessions and
we'll probably do definitelyanother episode when Chad goes
on trial next year.
And yeah, I mean the evil thatwe get to Next year, next year,
may 2024.
(24:51):
I mean, wow, I know the justicesystem takes a lot of time to
go through, wow, wow, so, yeah,and so thank you for sticking
with us.
And it's October, is it nextweek, october?
So we're gonna have some reallyfun Halloween things coming at
you and, yeah, we'll be backnext week.
(25:36):
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(25:57):
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Slash the deviant mind podcastUntil next time.
Bye.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Deviant Mind.
This is Dominica.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And this is Christopher.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And thank you for coming back to us on part three
of Lori Vallow Debell.
Sorry that we missed a week,but I was out at a conference
and I somehow stupidly thoughtthat I would have time to
actually record it at saidconference, but of course that
didn't.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
You've been busy.
You've been busy.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was busy shmoosing other authors, so we're back
this week and, yeah, we're goingto finish off this story with
the trial and her kids beingfound, unfortunately deceased.
So when we last spoke a coupleof weeks ago, we talked about
(01:20):
that.
She was finally extradited toRexburg from Hawaii on March 5,
2020, and she made her actualfirst court appearance on March
6.
And Judge Farron Eddins hereduced her bail to $1 million,
but, of course, she was stillunable to postpone and remained
in jail.
Now what they were holding herfor was conspiracy, attempted
(01:48):
murder or murder, because, ofcourse, they had not yet found
the children.
This is April 9, 2020.
There was some issues aboutAlex, if you remember.
He mysteriously died.
That was her brother and alsokind of her bringer of death,
her assassin, as it were.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
As well as his attorney.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And as well as his attorney and they actually found
autopsy said that he actuallydied of natural causes and there
were blood clots in his lungs.
That was on May 8, 2020.
Remember, this is already COVIDtime, so I'm kind of wondering
if both him and his lawyer gotdown by COVID.
(02:33):
So she's hanging out in jailsince March 6.
Finally, on June 9, 2020, therewas a search warrant that was
served at Chad's home by theRexburg Police Department, fbi
and Fremont County Sheriff'sOffice and, sadly, within hours,
the remains of the children, jjand Tiley, were discovered
(02:55):
buried on the property.
And I don't know if you guysremember from the past two
episodes, but there was sometalk about how Alex had taken
something back to the to the PetCemetery and Chad had mentioned
in one of the phone calls abouta Pet Cemetery.
(03:17):
Well, it turns out that Tiley'sremains were found at that Pet
Cemetery near the fire pit, andJJ's remains were found near the
pond on Chad's property.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yes, and Alex's cell phone data placed him at Chad's
backyard in these areas forroughly two hours.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, so obviously we're thinking that Alex was the
one who actually buried thesechildren down there and they.
Chad actually called Lori whilethe officers were on his
property and because of course,all of these phone calls are
(04:02):
what are they called?
Recorded?
Yeah, lori asked if they hadseized anything and Chad said no
, they're still searching.
And Chad told her to call theattorney, which was at the time
Mark Means.
And of course, chad at thispoint got super busy.
So between 950 am and 10 am hestarted transferring money to
(04:26):
each one of his three kids.
The total was $24,000.
And he made the pauses of$8,000 each to each one of his
kids and there was only like$4,000 left in that account.
At 1130 am, chad was seenleaving his daughter's house
(04:47):
across the street at a high rateof speed, even though he was
told that he needed to stay orbe accompanied by an officer.
He of course was quickly takeninto custody and booked into
Fremont County jail on chargesof concealment, distribution or
(05:07):
alteration of evidence.
Of course, the remains werefound on his property.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
If I may, I was going to jump in and ask at one point
Chad's family allows their mom,who also passed away in this
horrific fiasco.
They started suspecting that,after this and what's going on,
that their father may have hadsomething to do with their mom's
(05:39):
death, so they actually exhumedher body.
I don't do you remember in thetimeline if this happens before
or after the?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
the children are found.
They, I believe.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
And, incidentally, once they exhumed the body, they
found that she was suffocatedand there were bruises all over
her body.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yes, I'm trying to look through the timeline right
now.
That happened actually before.
That was on December 11th of2019.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
When they exhumed her body.
Yeah, Okay okay.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So this happened before.
But I mean, I'm sure thechildren must have thought at
this point that he had somethingto do with it, because, again,
he quickly got together withthis woman whose children were
missing yeah, I mean, that's awhole lot of missing and death
around, you know because herex-husband had been killed too,
(06:44):
right, so yeah, as a triggerwarning when these children are
found.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
You know, I'm just going to quickly say that Tilly
was burned to death and JJ wastaped all over and died of
asphyxiation.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, which is horrifying.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
They believed.
They believed the day bells,that one had to be tied and
bound in order for the demons tonot escape their dead body.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I see, yeah, I see.
So once these children werefound, things of course went
into the justice system andeverything moves very slowly.
So the prosecutors filed newcharges against Lori on June
29th, which included two countsof conspiracy to commit
(07:43):
destruction, alteration orconsummate of evidence.
Chad made his first courtappearance via video from jail
because, again, remember, thisis COVID times.
His bail was set at $1 millionon June 10th 2020.
And Lori pleaded not guilty tomisdemeanor, resisting or
(08:04):
obstruction officers' criminalsolicitation to commit a crime
and contempt of court on July15th 2020.
On July 2nd sorry, I skipped oneprosecutors dismissed charges
of desertion and non-supportivechildren against Lori because
apparently she killed them, soshe didn't desert them.
On August 27th, no, on August21st 2020, chad appeared in
(08:34):
front of District Judge StephenBoyce and pleaded not guilty to
his charges.
And on August 27th, chad'sattorney John Pryor asked Boyce
to dismiss the case against Chad, but that was denied.
And on September 1st 2020,madison County prosecuting
attorney Rob Wood filed a motionto combine the cases of Chad
(08:54):
and Lori, and that took untilMarch 2023 that they would have
separate cases, as Lori did notwaive her right to a speedy
trial and she also appeared atan arraignment in District Court
on September 10th 2020 andpleaded not guilty to two counts
(09:17):
of conspiracy to commitdestruction, alteration and
concealment of evidence.
So this was all the stuff aboutmissing kids, right, and them
destroying evidence.
They were actually not chargedwith first-degree murder and
conspiracy to commit murderuntil May 24th 2021.
So that was like how manymonths later?
(09:40):
Almost like eight months later.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And she actually Lori was committed on June 8th 2021,
to the Idaho Department ofHealth and Welfare, where a
psychologist deemed her not fitfor trial.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
She the judge rather was adamant about not having any
television, so this trial wasnot televised.
Every now and then on Core TV,another outlet, you would see
clips, but overall they didn'twant any television in there
because they were afraid thatshe was going to play up to the
(10:19):
camera during the trial.
The trial only lasted two daysher trial, incidentally, and
nonetheless I think maybe Ibrought this up in episode one,
but she was still all aboutappearances, right and
presentation.
Yes, so she and working withother inmates.
(10:39):
The inmates were like hey, ifyou want lipstick, use a Jolly
Rancher and some water and we'llsmear it on.
Here's some eyeliner we made.
So she did herself up to lookpresentable in the courtroom,
despite being behind bars for awhile.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Which we will get to that, because that was her trial
just happened in 2023.
But 2021 was a bunch of legalwrangling as far as well she.
On June 24th 2021, a grand juryin Arizona indicted Lori for
conspiracy to commit murder inthe death of her fourth husband,
(11:13):
charles Vallow.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So those Arizona proceedings were on hold while
she faced the charges in Idaho.
Meanwhile, chad pleaded notguilty to all charges in the
indictment.
His children actually attendedthis meeting.
July 29th, the prosecutorsdropped a destruction,
alteration or concealment ofevidence charges against both of
them and on August 5th 2021,prosecutors said they would seek
(11:38):
the death penalty against Chad,stating quote the nature and
magnitude of these crimeswarrant the possibility of the
highest possible punishment.
End quote.
On October 5th, the Daybelltrial was moved from Fremont
County to Ada County and then,on December 28th 2021, judge
Boyce ordered that Mark Means,lori's attorney, could no longer
(11:59):
represent her.
He cited a conflict of interestin representing both Daybells
as well as concerns about hislegal competency.
So so that's all of 2021.
So it's like a bunch of legallegal wrangling, you know,
figuring out which charges weregoing to happen first.
So we get to 2022.
(12:21):
On March 21st 2022, john Pryor,chad's attorney, requested to
severe Chad's case from Lori's,but that was denied.
However, it was later separated, like we spoke about.
Yeah, on April 11th 2022, boyceissued a written order that
Lori was now competent for trialand she released from the
(12:42):
welfare facility and herarraignment was set for April
19th.
When she was arraigned on April19th, she did not speak and her
new attorney, jim Archibald,pleaded not guilty on her behalf
.
And then, on May 2nd 2022,prosecutors announced that they
would also pursue the deathpenalty against Lori, but
(13:03):
unfortunately, it was laterruled off the table by Boyce.
And on May 26th 2022, boyceannounced that the trials would
be held together in January 2023.
But this was later changedbecause there was new evidence.
Now, on August in 2022, sheLori appeared in court and she
(13:26):
was smiling.
She was wearing a band on herring finger, and that was when
Lori's attorneys filed a motionagainst asking the cameras be
banned from the courtroom andBoyce granted that motion.
And again on October 6th 2022,lori's case was put on hold,
again due to competency issues,but then a month later, she was
(13:48):
found competent for trial andthat was postponed until April
3rd 2023.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And this is something she contested and kept arguing
about and was very upset aboutduring this whole process.
Eventually, I mean, she juststarts to break mentally.
She doesn't understand what'sgoing on, she's not working well
with this attorney and anotherattorney.
It just becomes a complete mess, one which she is more or less
creating to prolong this wholeprocess.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Right, exactly which I mean.
Again, they were arrested in2021.
And you know now.
Finally, her trial starts onApril 3rd, which was the jury
selection began, the jury wasfinalized and on April, oh,
let's go back to the evidencethey found.
(14:35):
Oh yes in 2022.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Are you referring to the print?
Oh, okay, dominica.
Incidentally, that evidencedate turned up included some
fingerprints.
Yeah, there were fingerprintsfrom both Alex and Chad on the
(15:08):
duct tape, and then they found astrand of Lori's hair on JJ's
black bag that his body wasplaced in.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, okay, I mean, I guess the hair could have been
like well, you know, they livein the same house, but the
fingerprints, that's prettydamning, I would think.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
She had always claimed that she was at home,
when apparently, they say thatshe was home when all of this
happened, when the children weremurdered.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah, so, and so the trial started.
And Shibu Kuku for Coco Puffs.
Yeah, yeah, so go ahead.
So were there transcripts ofthe trial?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So no, well, not to my knowledge.
I know that there are clipsthat one can go online and they
can view different parts of thetrial.
What's interesting is that herdefense decided to call no
witnesses whatsoever and theirwhole angle was that they blame
Chad and Alex themselves andthey started to paint Lori as a
(16:19):
brainwash victim.
Yeah, so she was really thevictim, just as the children
were.
She believed everything thatChad was telling her, including
demons possessing bodies,obviously people that he felt
needed to not be in the pictureanymore.
(16:40):
I mean, we're talking about hiswife, we're talking about her
children.
Perhaps they were inconvenientto lifestyle that he wanted to
have with Lori?
Yeah, but yeah, so Child wastwo days, deliberation was seven
hours.
Prior to all this one, she'sinterrogated one of her initial
(17:00):
interrogations.
She's just, she smiles an awfullot.
It's kind of like the stupor isthe light, where she knows
she's getting away withsomething and she knows that
perhaps the way that herchildren were murdered was all
for the good.
Like you get the sense, andit's the way she appeared on
(17:21):
trial.
To whatever photos or videofootage we see of her, there's
sort of more attention paid toher appearances and the
perception of her rather thanthis actual crime, this heinous
murders, these murders that tookplace.
So she's very withdrawn, bodylanguage wise, she just kind of
turtles up and she like enclaveswhile she's talking and
(17:44):
giggling and just trying tosmile and warm up to the
interrogator.
But for every question thatreally digs deep about, like,
well, where's the children?
What about the child?
Neglect and all this sort ofthing, it's very like I don't
know, I don't know.
You know it's, it's almost asthough she's trained herself or
that could be a result of beingbrainwashed by Chad, to a point
(18:06):
where she believes she reallyhad nothing to do with this.
She's like, well, she's notgoing to be brainwashed by
another world.
Yeah, but at the same time, Iguess, as you mentioned, they
reversed right, but they areinitially saying she couldn't
stand trial to that.
She could indeed stand trial,right, right, right, like along
(18:28):
the way, like you know, yourealize, and they're in towards
the end of this interrogation,you know it's there's a line
between belief, brainwashed andmurder.
You know, there comes a point,especially if it's a religion
that you believe in that has anysort of moral value even this
is based on aliens and this sortof crazy thing and demons in
(18:49):
the end of the world To.
You're fully aware and I guessthis is where they came up with
that notion of what's going on,of what you're doing, of what
the sanest crime is Right andyet there's no.
You know, you can't be ahairdresser for years, know
what's going on and on a switch,just because you meet someone
(19:10):
and believe in their faiths andtheir theologies, do you know
what's happening to yourchildren?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You're right, right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Seven counts.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Well, and you know, and the prosecutors you know,
they said this she used money,power and sex to get what she
wanted, which was a new husband,got rid of her kids and I think
, after all of the people whotook the stand, including her
sister, her supposed to quoteunquote friend, you know, it
(19:45):
seemed very close to see thatshe was just totally insane.
I mean, how do you like sheused the social security
benefits of her children they,she was obsessed with Chad and
(20:08):
and then she was really shadywhen people were asking about
where her children were.
You know what I mean.
So it's like she had knowledgethat she did a bad thing because
she didn't say you know, I gotrid of them because I got rid of
the demons in their bodies,which is an insane person would
say no, she lied, she lied tothe babysitter, she lied to the
(20:32):
school.
So she tried to cover it up,which means that she had agency.
I mean, she knew what she haddone was wrong.
There was a lots of textmessages that came out in trial
as well between Lori and Chad.
You know also about eliminatingzombies.
So it's like the story itselfis crazy, but at the same time,
(20:54):
because she tried to cover up,cover it up and Chad tried to
cover it up.
I mean, it just shows that thatthey knew what they had done
was wrong, and so I'm good thatwhen you look at other cults I
mean you know you have, say, theManson family.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You know these people followed this person where they
brainwashed.
Perhaps a lot of them wereinsecure.
Perhaps Lori was insecure andthis is why she did pageants and
appearances run for her.
But those women that you knowwent into that house and really
massacred everyone.
We're fully aware what theywere doing, right.
But then you have an example ofthat fellow over at the, that
(21:35):
monster over at the collegecampus who's grooming all these
guys and girls to live with him.
I'm blanking on his name, butwe did a program about this
fellow too who basicallyconvinced others to have sex
with one another and to hit oneanother.
You know and so, and they did.
So it does become this questionof like how much of it is
(21:58):
brainwashed and how much of itis like, fully aware of the pain
that you're inflicting onothers because you're being told
to.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And she did murder crosses a line to me.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I mean well, and she wanted her Chad and she didn't
want her children and herchildren didn't like Chad and
she was like, okay, done anddone.
So, as we said that the Jerrydeliberated for seven hours, on
May 12th she was found guilty ofmurder and conspiracy to commit
murder for her children.
She was also found guilty ofconspiracy to commit murder in
the death of Tammy Daybell andshe was also found guilty of
(22:31):
grand theft, and on July 31stshe was sentenced to five life
sentences in prison, only threeof which will run consecutively.
Judge Stephen Boyce denied herany chance of parole and victims
spoke at the sentencing.
And and she also spoke at thesentencing, quoting scripture
and saying that she spoke to herdead children and they approved
(22:52):
of her and what she had done tothem.
So she kept the crazy on untilthe very end, and then Chad
Daybell's trial is expected totake place in April 2024.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Only, according to her, one of her cellmates, a
younger incarcerated woman, she,in the middle of the night,
lori, will talk to her childrenand in the system itself she's
sort of assumed the motherlyrole where the really trouble
(23:25):
and upset will open up to her.
So I see Pretty interesting too.
The question remains you know,power, sex, murder.
Does she take this path?
Do you think Dominica, if she'snot involved in this cult, if
she doesn't fall into the yeah,into Chad's ideal?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I honestly think that , like we've spoken about of
other people, it takes thatspecific synergy of two people
to start with the murder, and Ithink that she might have been
capable of it, but it needed thesynergy of him and all the
crazy that he added to that andthe obsession that they had to
each other to essentially bringit to the murder.
(24:10):
Is she a victim of Chad's?
Well, she was the mother and asa mother, he's supposed to
protect your children, not killthem.
So I think it's a 50-50, likethey are both responsible for it
.
But I don't know if she wouldhave been capable of that
without meeting Chad and thesynergy of what that
relationship gave to them.
(24:30):
So, yeah, pretty crazy case.
Thank you for sticking with usover the three sessions and
we'll probably do definitelyanother episode when Chad goes
on trial next year.
And yeah, I mean the evil thatwe get to Next year, next year,
may 2024.
(24:51):
I mean, wow, I know the justicesystem takes a lot of time to
go through, wow, wow, so, yeah,and so thank you for sticking
with us.
And it's October, is it nextweek, october?
So we're gonna have some reallyfun Halloween things coming at
you and, yeah, we'll be backnext week.
(25:36):
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
It helps other listeners findthis podcast.
Follow Dominica.
Best presents the deviant mind.
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, visit the
beststorytellingnetworkcom whereyou'll find show notes, my
books, links to social media andmuch more.
(25:57):
Join my Patreon for specialsubscriber perks, like two extra
exclusive episodes a month anda Q and A with me at patreoncom
forward.
Slash the deviant mind podcastUntil next time.
Bye.
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