May 30, 2023 • 51 mins
Imagine the chilling possibility that an author's writing could hint at their own intentions for committing murder. Could the twisted world of fiction seep into reality? This is the haunting premise of our latest episode, where we explore the captivating case of Nancy Brophy.
We delve into the life and career of her husband, Daniel Brophy, a beloved chef and instructor at the Oregon Culinary Institute, whose tragic murder shocked the community. Unraveling the investigation by the police and prosecution, we examine phone conversations, insurance policies, and digital evidence that help build the case against Nancy. Our conversation takes a darker turn as we discuss her history as a self-published romantic suspense author and her bizarre behavior during her testimony.
Join us in this spine-tingling episode as we ponder the possibility of resentment that may have been brewing for years in Nancy's mind and the implications of this case on writers who often research and explore dark themes. The chilling story of Nancy Brophy serves as a stark reminder of the thin line between fiction and reality and the lengths that some may go for money and power. Don't miss this thought-provoking episode that peels back the layers of a case both terrifying and utterly fascinating.
Hosted by Dominika Best and Christopher Gordon.
Visit thebeststorytellingnetwork.com where you’ll find show notes, my books, links to sources for this episode, social media and much more.
https://www.patreon.com/thedeviantmindpodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the Deviant Mind.
This is your host, Dominica.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And we are going to talk about one of the cases we
were talking about, that we weregoing to do from last week, and
that is the case of NancyBrophy, which I think we're
gonna call this case, for Chriscame up with a great idea of
calling it Murder She Wrote.
So this is Murder She Wrote,part One, which is the case of
(01:01):
Nancy Brophy.
But as we were texting back andforth, you mentioned that there
were some what are they calledUpdates on some of the cases
that we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, in the past, or like right now.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, right now, you said that there was.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Oh well, so in the Idaho case, this is what you're
talking about, like the mostrecent cases that are floating
around in a life with Nancy andUtah.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Oh, you know what?
I just realized that we haven'tactually done the Chris Watts
case, so never mind.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh yeah, no, well, that's.
another interesting thing thatcame up was Chris Watts is
mistress.
I know we haven't gone intothat.
No, yeah, i was out there.
who remember the mistress isnow there's more information
coming out about her involvementin the killing of Chris Watts'
family.
Apparently, john Ramsey hassaid that they recently found
(02:01):
DNA in his daughter's murdercase, so I don't know exactly
what's going on with that.
The Idaho case I believe hepleaded not guilty.
So I believe that the case isgoing into trial and maybe
excuse me, june, i don't knowwhen in June, okay okay.
(02:22):
Yeah, so those are some of thebig things going on.
and then the Doomsday mom gotlife in prison.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, so You'll definitely probably cover her in
the upcoming weeks, becausethat's a totally, totally cookie
case, yeah, but this week weare doing Nancy Crampton Brophy
and Spoiler Alert.
She did it, but let's start atthe beginning.
(02:54):
So on the morning of June 2nd2018, chef Daniel Brophy went to
work at the Oregon CulinaryInstitute And it was a Saturday
and he disarmed the alarm at 721am.
His coworker came into thebuilding at 730 am but didn't
discover his body until 8 amwhen she let students enter the
(03:18):
building for the classes.
His body was found in the rarekitchen by students.
He'd been shot two times, oncein the back and once in the
chest, and both pierced himthrough the heart.
So, of course, the police werecalled and they searched the
school and they found no signsof force or struggle and they
(03:40):
saw no signs of motive, and thatincluded robbery, assault or
other crime.
Daniel still had his wallets onhim.
There was nothing missing fromthe wallet, as they could tell.
His cell phone was still there,his eyeglasses and car keys.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And that morning apparently was supposed to be a
live fire for all the students,which means they set up pop-up
restaurants and in preparationhe wanted to get there early.
So he got there especiallyearly.
He had been a chef for 10,maybe 12 years and apparently
the students loved him.
He was always there early toprepare.
(04:19):
He was very approachable Andthen eventually the community
would grow to love him and hiswife.
But really he was at the center.
He was doing more for thecommunity at this time.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So Yes, definitely, And that's he had actually been
in the full food industry forover 50 years.
Yeah, He had been the lead chefinstructor at the Oregon
Culinary Institute since 2006.
Right, He had also worked atthe Cordon Bleu Institute in
Portland, which is actuallywhere he met Nancy Brophy.
(04:51):
He was an expert in marinebiology, He was a master
gardener and a mushroom expertAnd he loved going on mushroom
hunting expeditions field trips,I guess you would call with his
students.
He loved leading those fieldtrips And he actually tried his
(05:12):
hand at keeping bees And he hada pretty extensive vegetable
garden in the back of his homeAnd he lived in Beaverton,
Oregon, with his wife, Nancy,who was an author.
So her website So we're going togo into this because I actually
went through the.
Her website is down now, but Iwent through the way back
(05:34):
machine and found some veryinteresting things.
But on her website she wrotethis is a quote, I can't tell
you when I fell in love with myhusband, but I relate the moment
I decided to marry him, I wasin the bath.
It was a big tub.
I expected him to join me Andwhen he was delayed, I called
out are you coming?
His answer convinced me he wasMr Right.
(05:56):
Yes, but I'm making horsd'oeuvres.
Can you imagine spending therest of your life without a man
like that?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And oh my god.
And then you know what'sinteresting Was that under her
blog post from 2011,.
Had a murder, your husband.
Because, she actually.
Okay, that was I guess before.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Well, actually that wasn't even a blog post, it was
for a.
So she was a self-publishedromance author, right, and she
had actually written articlesfor other people's blogs, so
that article was actually postedin, i believe, cjane Wright,
(06:33):
from then, which we're gonna gointo how fascinating this case
is, on how the prosecution andthe police actually kind of
caught her.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So, as a personal note, on a side note, you
yourself, dominica, are a writer, right.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I write crime novels And we've talked
extensively on my history.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, our search histories are crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so that is definitely was eye-opening to
see what I mean.
Obviously I'm not gonna doanything like that, but it is
crazy how that can bite you.
And actually she tried to hideher search history, because we
will get to that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
But So I just wanted to know do you feel like cases
like this and the mother andyouth talk do they give writers
such as yourself a bad name?
Is there always like?
do you think there's a stigmanow created by cases like this?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
You know it's interesting because that you
should mention it a stigma,because a lot I self-publish
very proudly And these otherwomen that we're gonna talk
about did self-publish as well.
And one of the things that Ifound very interesting is that
one of the issues that a lot ofself-publishers have is that
(08:01):
we're not quote, unquote, realwriters as far as the general
population that's concerned,because there's that moniker of
like self-published, so youdidn't go through the whole
process of being vetted, eventhough most everybody that I
know, i mean, we hire our owneditors, like we're essentially
(08:22):
publishing houses, so we have awhole team of people working on
these books.
They're not just us.
You know, hi, it's Rue.
So as I was going and doing theresearch for this, it was
interesting that every newsarticle which, by the way,
there's a lifetime movie thatwas made of this with Sybil
Shepard and Great Gutenbergwhich is like come on.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I mean, come on, But they every article I wrote just
called her a romance author Andthere was no.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
There was a little suspense, right, wasn't there
like a team of suspense andstuff.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, her romance novels are of the romantic
suspense variety, right, I thinkit's like the wrong husband,
the wrong seal.
She had this whole series about, which I find very interesting,
about finding the wrong personand then finding the right
(09:21):
person And she but anyway, so,going back to that, like
everywhere I saw, they justcalled her an author, which for
a number of years that has beensomething that self-published
authors have been fighting forbeing like hey, we're actually
small business owners, we arepublishing houses, we are a ton
(09:42):
of people to work on these books.
This isn't just like somecrappy pamphlet that you put out
onto Amazon.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And the thing is it's like in different industries.
You know, one can self-producetheir own film and
self-distribute it on Amazon.
You can do that.
You can create your own music,self-distribute online.
So we do live in this age where, you know, we're able to
produce original content and doit on our own.
But it's interesting that thereis like that assumption of
(10:12):
writers who self-publish.
I really wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, and it's gotten much, much better.
When at the beginning likebecause I've been
self-publishing since like 2012,like at the beginning back in
the early days people were like,oh God, what are you doing?
But there is so much freedom tobe able to find your own
readers and, you know, reallyfocus on the work and not have
to focus trying to get throughthis gauntlet of publishing
(10:40):
houses, which, by the way, is acomplete racket.
They give you shit contractsand you make so very little
money And they don't actuallyeven market you.
But that's a whole otherconversation.
So, going back to her, so she soanyway.
So it was interesting hownobody like said that about her
(11:02):
in a derogatory manner.
It just shows how far thatindustry has come, because she's
just a romance author who wrotethese books and, of course,
ended up killing her husband.
But going back to her husband,when he was killed, he, as a
first mentioned, he was a very,very popular teacher And there
(11:23):
were some quotes that were lefton the school's Facebook page
from his students And I havesome of them just to kind of
show the kind of guy he was.
And there was one quote he wasboth the biggest pain and the
biggest inspiration I had there,and quote one student wrote,
quote sometimes we reallyresented him for his snark and
bluntness, but he was also oneof the smartest, most thoughtful
(11:45):
people I've ever met and wouldtake the time to help with
whatever you needed.
And so, again, he was justreally, really loved, except for
by his wife, which he was doingsome shady stuff During the
time that he was in in theschool.
She and this was surveillancevideo that was later watched by
(12:09):
the police showed her drivingher Toyota minivan at 708 by the
front of the OCI building,which is the Oregon Culinary
Institute, and then she was seenleaving the area in that same
car at 728 am.
And now, because she thoughtshe was smarter than everybody
(12:30):
else, she arrived back at theOregon Culinary Institute
driving the same Toyota minivanthat was seen on surveillance.
Yeah, very quickly after thedetectives arrived at the scene,
She had said by the way thatshe was home.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh, she initially denied that drive by the initial
.
her initial drive by Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And the video still hasn't come yet because of 2018.
That still is is good, it's nota deep fake.
But she never actually, eventhrough her entire trial, she
never made an explanation.
She didn't try to, she didn'ttry to deny it or explain it,
and in her trial she actuallyhad a psychologist say that she
(13:16):
just couldn't remember becauseshe was traumatized.
So right, right, so she So.
So the officers, when shearrived at the scene, said like
where will?
Okay, what are you doing here?
where have you been?
and she said that she'd beenhome that morning And she hadn't
left her house until she wascalled about an incident at OCI.
Now, i couldn't figure out whocalled her, whether it was the
(13:37):
police or if it was one of thestudents, because she had been
married to this man for 26 years.
Absolutely, people are like Ohgotta call the wife if you find
Daniel dead.
And she gave the police atimeline of when Daniel left the
house But again really tried tostick to her story that she had
stayed home.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Now she was acting weird as well, From what I
understand at the time that shewas talking to investigators at
the same do tell how weird.
And just like her manner is,there was no real grief.
It was as though she knewsomething was wrong, but once
she's finding out what's goingon It it doesn't affect her, as
(14:21):
you would expect.
The one what, especially for acouple that had been married for
so long.
By all accounts, also from theneighbors and family that had a
beautiful relationship, likethey adored one another.
He really took good care of herAnd, to give a little more
backstory, she had been marriedto a cop Initially.
That was her first marriage Andthen they moved to Portland
(14:44):
where she met Dan at a differentculinary school in the early
90s.
He was married at the time withthe son.
The two of them just fell fromone another, eventually got
married.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, it was.
You know, when I found herwebsite through the way back
machine, she wrote about herselfwas really really odd.
And now, of course, you know,whenever you're reading people's
bios you're like, okay, youknow, it always seems kind of
(15:23):
awkward.
And literally her first line iswriters are liars.
I don't remember who said that,but it's not true.
And she goes on to talk abouthow she digs deep and unearthed
portion of her life Andsometimes it's better to change
(15:44):
the ending, which again it's.
There's always like thisnegativity to her, this bio,
which again, is writing abouther life.
And the thing that kind ofreally struck me is how, before
that quote that I read out thatthe way that she wrote she said
(16:04):
that you know and this isdirectly quoting from her about
page is that Her imaginaryfriends that she writes about.
They live larger than life,larger than life lives, and they
always have happy endings.
Because, again, she's writingromance, but her personal life
(16:27):
is never as clearly defined.
And she said, you know, herbeginnings are hard to locate,
there's weird middles and she'slike, you know, it's always kind
of a link in the chain.
And she says that she's marriedto a chef and that she lives
with chickens and turkeys in herbackyard fabulous vegetable
garden.
But then she says for those ofyou who have longed for this,
(16:51):
let me caution you.
The old adage is true Be carefulwhat you wish for.
When the gods are truly angry,they grant us our wishes and the
payment is always high.
Oh, and I'm like, um, wow, okay, well, you don't sound like a
very happy woman right there,and again, we're kind of going
(17:14):
into what her own words means.
But, like you know, again, ihave a bio.
I don't really talk about myrelationship with my husband in
such a way, obviously at all,but most authors don't go so
deep into I don't know.
It just shows that there wasissues and this was from it
(17:38):
looks like it was from 2000 andit was on her website in 2018,
which was the year that sheactually killed her husband, and
she's like you know, like allmarriages, we've had her ups and
downs, more good times than badAnd they were, i guess, living
in an apartment because theirhouse was being rebuilt from a
(18:00):
house fire, and that's again.
It's just.
This doesn't sound like a veryhappy woman.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
No, she's not, And I think a lot of that may stem
from what his son said in hisimpact statement at her hearing,
that she was very shallow and ashell.
And you know, the and myresearch found that the one job
(18:28):
she had was she was working fora pension company and then
decided to get into writing.
He claimed that she was veryshallow and felt in the shadow
of his father.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
you know, obviously you know he's in the community.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
he's doing all these things And she's just like
trying to focus on writing,trying to make a name for
herself something.
And folks who have read herbooks actually say they're
boring, that they're just kindof very formulaic.
And so again, as his sonmentions in court, like I think
that may have something to dowith a lot of this, like he's
(19:09):
the breadwinner, like she justwants to contribute in some way
but she doesn't know how.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Right, right, exactly .
So going back to the day thatthe body is found, you said that
she was acting weird.
She also said that, of courseagain something out of a book
her husband had no enemies andshe had no idea who'd want to
kill them, kill him.
The police also asked if Danielever brought a gun to work to
(19:36):
protect himself, and Nancy saidthat she had recently purchased
a Glock nine millimeter handgun,but they hadn't used it yet and
he did not bring it to work.
So she, of course, gave thisGlock to the police and Leland
Samuelson.
at the Oregon State Crime Lab.
He analyzed the bullets thatcame from Daniel's body and he
(20:02):
said that they were most likelyshot from a Glock nine
millimeter.
However, when he tested the gun, they it was determined it was
not the firearm that shot andkilled Daniel, because the
grooves on the on the bulletswere different.
So for those people who don'twrite about crime or know about
guns, typically when a bulletcomes out of the barrel of a gun
(20:27):
, it creates striations in thebullet that you can match to see
, and it's always very specific,because not every gun has the
same kind of straight.
It doesn't create the samestriations in.
it's like a fingerprint,essentially, and so they were
like okay, well, the Glock thatshe gave them, it wasn't the gun
(20:50):
that was used to kill herhusband.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yes.
Another interesting thing isokay in terms of her acting
weird.
When she's told that herhusband's been shot, she says by
an AR 15.
And then they're like why?
why would you assume that?
and her response is oh, becauseof all these school shootings.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Oh, that's interesting.
I mean, I guess that would belike a good sort of.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Get off my trail, cover Right, like oh, it must,
yeah, was it an AR 15.
But I just find that yourhusband's been shot Like, oh my
God, none of that, none of that.
It's a sad look on her face butshe's kind of like, oh, was it
an AR 15.
Like tell me what kind offirearm killed my husband?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Like exactly like what, Like what is this Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
But this Glock is interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It actually ends up the Glock is the, the lynchpin
in the case.
That gets her, that gets herprosecuted.
So on June 5th 2018, she, nancy, calls the lead detective,
whose name is Darren Posey, andasks for a letter from him
(22:06):
saying that she was not asuspect for her husband's murder
because she needed to provideit to her life insurance company
.
And when the police asked, it'slike oh, it's interesting, you
have life insurance on him.
Well, how much is it?
She says, oh, it's only 40 K.
So the detectives are like okay, well, a husband is dead, he
(22:28):
has no enemies, he'swell-beloved in the community.
Guess what?
We're looking at you becauseyou're the wife And at this
point, we've seen footage of youpiping by.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You said 40K right.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, this is the key a thing.
It's interesting because thiswas so.
I read a lot of this from thearresting affidavit.
Okay, this was initially whatshe said was 40.
Right.
The detectives refused to giveher the letter And then they
started calling insurancecarriers, being like hey, who
(23:04):
has an insurance policy on thesky?
And so they discovered in theaffidavit that it was the amount
of insurance policies was inthe amount of 350K.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
The thing.
You had two other policies.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
But that only came out in trial So in the trial
documents you find out thatactually the full total was 1.5
and not the 350.
So but she was arrested on thelying about the 40K to the 350.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Right, and then also, this is three days later.
She's having this conversationwith the lead investigator about
the insurance policy, threedays after her husband's death.
Yeah, you know, let's find outwho did this.
How can this be?
But no, let's, i got to findout what's the old insurance
policy, right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
And this was around the time that Daniel's son was
actually helping her and tryingto be there for her because he's
like okay, you know, like youknow, your husband has been
murdered and that's a veryviolent act, which I know that
he talked about in papers later.
You know, there was.
He was very angry about thefact that he had come to be her
(24:14):
support in this trying time andshe was just trying to figure
out how to get the money.
So, you know, police radar waslike okay, this is something's
going on here.
So they went through Daniel'sphone and they found that the
couple had a joint iTunesaccount and through the joint
iTunes account, they were ableto see the search history, and
(24:36):
I'm not quite sure how of andthis is the initial kind of deep
dive.
They go into the search history.
They found that someone hadsearched for quote 10 ways to
cover up a murder, and so shewas arrested on September 5th
2018.
And as she was being arrested,she said quote, you're arresting
(24:59):
me.
And quote.
Then added quote, you mustthink I murdered my husband And
quote.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
So I mean it's either that or that.
I, you know right, killed oneof the Murdochs.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Right, exactly So.
But what was really fascinatingabout this is what the police
and the investigators in theprosecution held as the main
theory of the case, because, aswe said about before, that the
murder weapon didn't match theballistics of the bullets that
(25:35):
were found in Daniel's body.
However, she had been searchingfor a ghost gun, which is an
unregistered and untraceablefirearm, and what they had?
so their theory was that Nancyhad swapped out the slide and
(25:58):
barrel of her Glock 17 with adifferent set to murder her
husband and then reinstalled theoriginals.
So therefore, the ballisticswouldn't match.
And when they saw a photo ofthe Glock that she gave them,
they noticed that the slide andbarrel weren't properly seated,
(26:20):
which is how they really startedwith their suspicions.
And so they went looking intoher computers Now they had done
a full on search for, and theybecause they didn't have any
other digital evidence likethere was no, no weird phone
(26:40):
calls, there were no weird textmessages, but they were like
okay, well, we found through heriTunes that somebody had typed
in how to cover up a murder, andso they were like okay, we need
to find out when she purchasedthis Glock and from who, whether
(27:01):
she did purchase a ghost gunand they had these three
computers that they had found.
One was found in a closet,another one was on her bed And
then the final computer wasrecovered from a storage unit.
So they decided to turn to adigital investigation platform
(27:24):
developed by Magnet ForensicsAnd they started analyzing all
this digital evidence that wereon these computers.
And so this is actually one ofthose interesting cases that has
been in kind of the policeworld of being like wow, this
was really interesting, thatthey built their case entirely
(27:48):
around internet evidence And itwas all search history.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, just as that case about.
I'm blanking on her name, butthe girl from Plainville who
suggested that her boyfriend goahead and kill himself, you know
, he gets out of the car And shesays could you skip back in?
I believe that was the firstcase that relied heavily on text
messages.
So we are definitely living inthis world now right, where it's
(28:14):
like wow here.
Now here goes a treasure troveof all of her information, which
she claims was just part of herresearch.
Like she wasn't done.
Hey, I'm writing this book, youknow, and this is just research.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Right, exactly, which I mean again, except for she
has a dead husband.
So there is that.
So they didn't find anything onthe computers in the storage
unit or on her bed, but the onein the closet was a whole
different thing.
So they followed breadcrumbsAnd they she had been searching
(28:51):
for a ghost gun kit Yeah, fromNovember 2017.
So this is definitelypremeditated, and there was a
ton of research results fromNovember 2017 to March 2018.
And more research is comingready for that.
It's, you know, not totallystrange to be looking up Glock
(29:12):
17 purchases, but then she wasalso looking on how to break the
gun down to a barrel and slide.
And then she was researchingghost guns and trying to figure
out when they were sold.
She was also looking to whetherGlocks had big kickbacks.
(29:33):
She was searching for videos onghost guns And then she in
February 2018, she startedlooking on where to buy a gun
locally.
So the searches included gunshops in Portland When do you
have to register a gun in OregonShows, which she did end up
buying the gun that the policegot from her home, her husband
(29:57):
only gave her the money.
Her husband right.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, said here, take this money go ahead.
Exactly, you should get one.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
So she bought that gun at a local gun show.
But then she started visitingeBay for Glock slides and
barrels And she actually won anauction for those items.
And then she started looking atvideos about how to clean a
Glock, how to load a Glock andhow to disassemble a Glock.
(30:27):
And then, of course, threemonths later, daniel Brophy is
murdered And they found theghost gun kit and they found the
Glock 17.
But what they'd never found wasthe additional slide and barrel
that she ordered on eBay.
(30:48):
And they found the kit.
Yeah, they found the kit, butthey never actually found the
slide and barrel.
It was probably underwatersomewhere.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I was just going to say I'm surprised she didn't use
the eBay defense.
In other words, hey, if this ispre-manitating and I wanted to
do it immediately, i would havebought it now, but instead I did
an auction.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Right, right Right.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Exactly.
But this whole gun parts, whichlater she would go on to say
again part of research forcharacter in her book.
it's about how the characterdisposes the gun and then is
able to use it again.
So Right.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
And so the motive that the prosecutors gave at
trial was that the the Brofieswere struggling financially The
fall before Daniel Brophy waskilled.
They had taken out $35,000 fromhis retirement account, which
was about half its total, tocatch up with mortgage and
(31:45):
credit card payments.
And she in her defense was like, well, i would have done much
better with my husband alive,and because we were cashing in
the retirement plans and theyintended to downsize their
property, and her defense wasspeculating that Daniel's murder
could have been a robbery gonewrong, except for again, there
(32:09):
was nothing robbed.
And then we come to the how tomurder your husband.
And it was the website called CJand publish Now in her trial.
the judge excluded the essayfrom trial, but the prosecutor
did quote its themes withoutmentioning it by name.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
And then what's?
10 ways to cover up a murder.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That was originally the first kind of trail they got
from the iTunes account to belike, hey, wait a minute, you
got to look at the wife again.
Yeah, but this was alsosomething that they had found,
that she had written And, as yousaid, it was written a while
back, it was 2011.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Was it excluded because of under First Amendment
?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'm not sure It didn't.
I couldn't find why And Ididn't watch the trial.
Did you watch the trial?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I watched her a lot of her testimony.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And boy, wow, i mean, she's a storyteller.
You watch her and you can seeher brain working.
She's very uncomfortable.
There are certain questionsasked by the prosecution which
she'll ask a question.
The prosecutor will ask her aquestion and she'll answer by
(33:31):
asking him a question And reallyjust gives way too much
information.
you know, it's the type ofthing where it was, i think, one
of the questions that she wasjust basically horrible on the
stand.
She couldn't answer why she wasnear the scene at the time
video of the car And instead ofjust coming up with something,
(33:55):
she leads up by saying like Oh,i went to a Starbucks, but she
keeps going.
I went to a Starbucks.
I think it was pretty crowded,so I was able, but I stood
online, you know, i got mycoffee and then from the coffee
I was able to get back.
You just answer the question.
But because she's in this frameof mind, I'm a writer, i can
develop stories, people canbelieve me.
(34:16):
Again, this is just anotheropportunity I feel when she's on
the stand, to be a writer.
improve that.
she is intelligent.
You know, i think she wastrying to get away with what she
deemed the perfect crime.
So that's the part I reallyfocused on and I saw was her.
you know her sensing and hertestimony.
(34:37):
Her test is just horrible.
She incriminates herself.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Right, right, right, right, no, and she also I guess
I didn't realize this, but shespent $15,000 for the gun and
the gun parts and the ghost gun,which is kind of insane if
they're taking $35,000 out oftheir retirement account to just
(35:04):
pay for their mortgage.
So I'm like, where'd she getthat whole money from?
I mean, you said that she hadgiven her that money, but it's
like $15,000.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
But well, the thing is she said that he gave her
like $400.
And then, when her credit cardwas last used, she took out $400
or something like this,something about how, like he
always had cash, and shebasically spent $400, which came
back to bite her in the buttbecause they said, well, what
happened to the other $400?
(35:33):
And then to what she says well,you know, i had to get an oil
thing to clean it.
I got a book on how to properlyuse a Glock That's like $30.
So, like, what happened to allthat other money?
It's just like that.
So that's kind of weird.
But from what I understand,again, there were two other life
insurance policies he had whichultimately totaled a lot of
(35:57):
money, right?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, which was $1.5 million, And, of course, if all
yeah, and if all he has in hisretirement account is $35,000,
that's not retirement money.
I mean she was 72, he was 63,but that's not there's.
no, that's not money forretirement at all.
So I mean it sounded like yeah,$1.5 million check.
(36:21):
She's thinking she's going tolike go riding off into the
sunset.
She claims it was never aboutthe money, right, which I mean.
then what was it about then?
Like come on.
And then she the fans had apsychologist and they claim that
she suffered retrograde amnesiafrom the trauma of finding out
(36:44):
about her husband being murdered, which is why she couldn't
exactly tell people what she wasdoing driving by his workplace
at the exact time that he waskilled.
And now she drove by at sevenoh eight, but then they didn't
see her car or her driving untilseven, 28.
So she had that 15 minutes togo in.
He probably let her in and shekilled him.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, and she also understands.
she says that when she'sgrilled about the gun and like,
are you, hey, how are you withthe gun?
You know, like your husband hada gun, like what would you do
with the gun?
And she said, you know, i'mgoing to keep around with it,
but like I didn't know how to dothe slide thing, it was just so
difficult.
And you know there are gunowners who say it's actually
(37:28):
pretty easy to just take theslide it out in the barrel.
So she lies about that.
And then she's asked uh,somebody got a shooting range.
You know, did you?
how did you practice using thegun?
And uh, she, you know I wentout in the backyard mostly and
you know, just shoot around.
And they have a ping from hercell phone uh, near, near a
(37:51):
shooting range, uh, to which sheclaims that there is a lot of
property for them to buy andthey were considering buying
some property, either flippingit or moving, and so that's why
she was in the vicinity.
So it's just for everything thatthey brought up.
She just had, like a quickresponse And obviously, again,
being a storyteller, i feel likeshe just had created all this
(38:13):
story.
It's a lot of it just soundedso rehearsed, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
No, well, and that's what the jury thought.
It was rehearsed and not true,because they um, she was found
guilty for second degree murderon May 2022.
She had a seven week trial andshe was sentenced to life in
prison And I think the nextpossibility chance of parole was
in 25 years, which mostly shewill not be around, and she is
(38:42):
serving her sentence at thecoffee Creek correctional
facility in Wilsonville, oregon,and it was actually 1.4 million
and that she was going to owntheir $300,000 home, which again
it's like yeah, i don't knowdivorce.
Like I never quite understandwhy people kill their spouses.
Like it's just something that Ijust don't understand,
(39:05):
especially when it comes to themoney.
Like why don't you just divorcethem?
Like what's the problem here?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Right, um, it's also interesting to note that there
apparently might have been ajail confession.
I think maybe I and perhaps inholding her, but apparently an
inmate testified that she, youknow that she admitted to her
that that she did kill herhusband.
Uh, i again, i don't know ifthat's after her sentencing, but
(39:34):
I'm pretty sure she testifiedthat it happened before.
Uh, but you know informants,you take it or leave it?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, exactly, those are a little tricky needs a
lesser charge.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
But recently watched a bunch of interviews and did
some research on Diane Downs,who I was never really familiar
with.
She was a killer of herchildren.
Actually two survived.
She shot them point blank.
One passed away and twosurvived.
One's paralyzed.
(40:09):
But at the time she wasdiagnosed psychotic And in the
rankings she's between the NightStalker, richard Amirah's and
Ted Bundy.
So it's really interestingbecause off the bat you rarely
see female psychopaths right,but there's.
(40:33):
Her behavior comes very closeto I don't think that me.
And see, here is a psychopath.
I think maybe, if anything, shegot wrapped up in her writing.
Maybe Was the writing read herhearing for the past 12 years?
(40:55):
Is this something that she hadbeen thinking about Over?
time what do you think?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I mean, i personally, just reading from her bio, she
just sounded like she was nothappy in her marriage, right And
she thought She doesn't seemlike a psychopath to me.
No, it just seems like a woman.
And again, i don't understandthis thinking, being like oh,
there's a lot of money on thetable, nobody's gonna find me
(41:21):
out because the insurancecompanies aren't like evil and
never wanna pay things out.
So she's like oh, $1.5 million,yeah, i'll be able to get that
if my husband dies mysteriouslyand then I have retirement and
then I don't have to worry aboutit.
So, but that to me seems soweird because, as we know here
in the United States, insurancecompanies will do anything in
their power not to pay out.
(41:42):
And I don't know, and that'stypically you're always the
first suspect when your spousedies, and that includes both men
and women.
And I mean, i guess maybe shethought she was too smart.
Like it's like oh, i'm a crimewriter, i know how to do all of
this.
(42:03):
This shouldn't be difficult.
I can pull this off for that$1.5 million.
And I'm like, really, you'regonna go like life in prison
because you're most likely gonnaget caught for like a measly
$1.5 million.
I never understand the moneyamounts equal to a human's life
either.
I'm like how did you think thiswas a good idea?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Like that just it's so weird Power and greed.
it's very weird And it's not myunderstanding.
they yet to find the ghost gun.
Is this?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
true?
Yeah, they've never been ableto find the slide or the barrel,
and I don't think they will.
I mean, she probably tossedthem somewhere or buried them in
the garden, like who knows, butthey were never able to find it
.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Also during her testimony.
It's interesting that she keepslooking over her defense team.
It's like she'll say somethingand look over for like a prover,
like ooh, did I say the wrongthing.
Like she can't tell what'sgoing on.
That's so weird.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I mean, are you gonna watch the civil shepherd?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna.
of course, i'll tell you whatOh my God, this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
And now she gets a movie made about her, because
it's kind of insane.
I mean I do think there musthave been.
I mean, I guess, somenarcissism going on around there
, being like I'm so smart, I'mnever gonna get caught, yeah And
just like in the other case Iwas, you know, in a murder.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
she wrote part two Yes, you'll see.
that's also regarding lifeinsurance policies.
Yeah, you know, don't alwayssee it's.
that seems to be that I againlike do you think that?
so?
do you think this was a longtime?
26 years is a long time right?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
26 years is a long time to be living with somebody,
and the fact that nobody of theneighbors or the son thought it
was a bad relationship, likethey all said, it was such a
great relationship.
So that is also crazy.
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I mean Do you think it was a long time coming.
And she, I mean, I mean, herwriting is dark.
Her writing is dark.
Right, She writes mostlyromance, but then she'll write
the dark stuff online.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
But that was only like I mean, but that was only
for eight years, like what wasshe doing for the other 19 years
?
Like that's what I'm saying,like it's just, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Right, it is weird, but it is her fallback.
So I'm wondering if, like thisis like something that she'd
always wanted to do, but like,how can I get away with it?
This is how you get away withit, like hey I just wrote about
it Doesn't mean I did it.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
You know, right, right, and I don't know that's
elaborate, that's reallyelaborate.
And that is very elaborate, andI just keep thinking as like,
come on, ladies, you can makeyour own money.
Like, go do it, go make somemoney.
Like believe in yourself, likeI.
Just it's hard for me to yeah,it's hard for me to wrap around
when you have supposedly a goodmarriage with a decent man who,
(44:58):
by the way, was like 10 yearsyounger than her too.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yes, so I'm like And he was very supportive of her
writing.
From what I understand, youknow she wasn't making that much
money from it.
He was still very supportiveAnd yeah, i mean, i think that
probably bothered her too, likethis whole.
You know, like hey, go makeyour own money, lady.
Like you know you could do ittoo, you know.
(45:22):
But then I think, when you know, your hopes get shattered.
You're not maybe as well knownas you'd like to be, maybe not
that many, and then like There,is never.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I mean again maybe in her mind, but there is, like
never, a reason to take anotherperson's life Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Like.
So I'm just trying to figureout a motive, i'm just trying to
figure out how she goes fromthat I mean again.
She's married to a cop, you know.
So there's that like she'smarried to a cop and then she
meets Dan, right, and then Dan'salso married.
But then they meet, likethere's some sort of attraction
and obviously that they havetowards one another.
But then you just go back andit's like, did she learn
(46:00):
anything from the cop?
Like it's interesting, shemarried a cop.
You know, like that's kind ofan odd thing.
And then maybe there's like abit of resentment.
You know, like I feel like this.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I feel the motive is ultimately resentment you know
Well that and also like thatthis woman have any friends like
through all of the articlesthat I read, there was never any
friend like Yeah.
Come in to say like no, shedidn't do it.
Or yeah, i've known her for along time, it was just neighbors
.
So I mean, i guess maybe theisolation of like I don't know,
(46:35):
i mean it's a weird one becauseshe doesn't.
Well, but then reading her bio,there's like definitely dark
undercurrents of unhappiness andnot being happy with the way
her life turned out, and regretsand but that's still.
I mean how does that go to?
(46:56):
like killing the man that yousupposedly love and has been so
good to you for the last 26years?
Like that's like what ishappening there.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
That's just completely, and his family was
very accepting of her at thetime.
I mean, look, listen to thatsituation.
Both of them are married.
You know they're having anaffair and then a blossoms they
get married.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh, so it actually had an affair that broke up
their marriages?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
I believe it was like this attract, yeah, they just
fell for one another and theywere like see it to their
respective spouses Interesting,interesting.
So the son was just like okay,you know, you're my stepmom, and
his mom and his parents werevery supportive.
They basically welcomed her andembraced her into the family.
So you know, is it a thrillkill?
(47:44):
Is it just jealousy?
I just, you know a deviant mind.
What would drive a deviant mindEspecially?
yeah, there's this whole thingand we'll see again in the next
case.
You just why can't you get atthe bores?
You could just get at the boresand move on.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, and with the next case she had kids, she'd
get alimony, she'd get childsupport, like what is?
the.
I mean, that case is just nutstoo, but anyway, we will talk
about that next week.
So so that was the case ofNancy Brophy in Murder She Wrote
(48:24):
.
Part One.
Murder She Wrote.
Part Two will be next week.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yes.
Quick question Are her?
do you know for books you'restill available?
Because next week's subject herbook was pulled Like after her
book.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Let me see, i'm looking.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I'm sure all these books are still available.
Let's see If you can't find acopy of if you were here or if
you were here anymore, thechildren's grief book She has.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
yeah, her books are still up.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Wow, yeah, so at least one of them.
The wrong husband Wrong neverfelt so right.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Book four There you go, the wrong husband.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, so there you have it.
So that was an interesting caseAnd good job.
I saw the book, her books.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
That's nice, I know right.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Like.
It didn't look like it soldwell, it didn't have very many
reviews, right, but Yeah, so,yeah.
So, thanks, liev, we'restarting our social media.
Finally, i'm trying to getChris on to the Instagram and
Instagram and Facebook hate me,but I'm going to try to figure
(49:39):
it out.
And so, yeah, if you like us,listen, subscribe and leave us a
review and we read all of them.
And till next time, thank you.
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
(50:24):
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
It helps other listeners findthis podcast.
Follow Dominica best.
Presents the deviant mind.
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, visit the best
storytelling networkcom, whereyou'll find show notes, my books
, links to social media and muchmore.
Join my Patreon for specialsubscriber perks and a free
(50:48):
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forward.
Slash the deviant mind podcastUntil next time.
Welcome to the Deviant Mind.
This is your host, Dominica.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And we are going to talk about one of the cases we
were talking about, that we weregoing to do from last week, and
that is the case of NancyBrophy, which I think we're
gonna call this case, for Chriscame up with a great idea of
calling it Murder She Wrote.
So this is Murder She Wrote,part One, which is the case of
(01:01):
Nancy Brophy.
But as we were texting back andforth, you mentioned that there
were some what are they calledUpdates on some of the cases
that we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh, in the past, or like right now.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, right now, you said that there was.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Oh well, so in the Idaho case, this is what you're
talking about, like the mostrecent cases that are floating
around in a life with Nancy andUtah.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Oh, you know what?
I just realized that we haven'tactually done the Chris Watts
case, so never mind.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh yeah, no, well, that's.
another interesting thing thatcame up was Chris Watts is
mistress.
I know we haven't gone intothat.
No, yeah, i was out there.
who remember the mistress isnow there's more information
coming out about her involvementin the killing of Chris Watts'
family.
Apparently, john Ramsey hassaid that they recently found
(02:01):
DNA in his daughter's murdercase, so I don't know exactly
what's going on with that.
The Idaho case I believe hepleaded not guilty.
So I believe that the case isgoing into trial and maybe
excuse me, june, i don't knowwhen in June, okay okay.
(02:22):
Yeah, so those are some of thebig things going on.
and then the Doomsday mom gotlife in prison.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, so You'll definitely probably cover her in
the upcoming weeks, becausethat's a totally, totally cookie
case, yeah, but this week weare doing Nancy Crampton Brophy
and Spoiler Alert.
She did it, but let's start atthe beginning.
(02:54):
So on the morning of June 2nd2018, chef Daniel Brophy went to
work at the Oregon CulinaryInstitute And it was a Saturday
and he disarmed the alarm at 721am.
His coworker came into thebuilding at 730 am but didn't
discover his body until 8 amwhen she let students enter the
(03:18):
building for the classes.
His body was found in the rarekitchen by students.
He'd been shot two times, oncein the back and once in the
chest, and both pierced himthrough the heart.
So, of course, the police werecalled and they searched the
school and they found no signsof force or struggle and they
(03:40):
saw no signs of motive, and thatincluded robbery, assault or
other crime.
Daniel still had his wallets onhim.
There was nothing missing fromthe wallet, as they could tell.
His cell phone was still there,his eyeglasses and car keys.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And that morning apparently was supposed to be a
live fire for all the students,which means they set up pop-up
restaurants and in preparationhe wanted to get there early.
So he got there especiallyearly.
He had been a chef for 10,maybe 12 years and apparently
the students loved him.
He was always there early toprepare.
(04:19):
He was very approachable Andthen eventually the community
would grow to love him and hiswife.
But really he was at the center.
He was doing more for thecommunity at this time.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So Yes, definitely, And that's he had actually been
in the full food industry forover 50 years.
Yeah, He had been the lead chefinstructor at the Oregon
Culinary Institute since 2006.
Right, He had also worked atthe Cordon Bleu Institute in
Portland, which is actuallywhere he met Nancy Brophy.
(04:51):
He was an expert in marinebiology, He was a master
gardener and a mushroom expertAnd he loved going on mushroom
hunting expeditions field trips,I guess you would call with his
students.
He loved leading those fieldtrips And he actually tried his
(05:12):
hand at keeping bees And he hada pretty extensive vegetable
garden in the back of his homeAnd he lived in Beaverton,
Oregon, with his wife, Nancy,who was an author.
So her website So we're going togo into this because I actually
went through the.
Her website is down now, but Iwent through the way back
(05:34):
machine and found some veryinteresting things.
But on her website she wrotethis is a quote, I can't tell
you when I fell in love with myhusband, but I relate the moment
I decided to marry him, I wasin the bath.
It was a big tub.
I expected him to join me Andwhen he was delayed, I called
out are you coming?
His answer convinced me he wasMr Right.
(05:56):
Yes, but I'm making horsd'oeuvres.
Can you imagine spending therest of your life without a man
like that?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And oh my god.
And then you know what'sinteresting Was that under her
blog post from 2011,.
Had a murder, your husband.
Because, she actually.
Okay, that was I guess before.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Well, actually that wasn't even a blog post, it was
for a.
So she was a self-publishedromance author, right, and she
had actually written articlesfor other people's blogs, so
that article was actually postedin, i believe, cjane Wright,
(06:33):
from then, which we're gonna gointo how fascinating this case
is, on how the prosecution andthe police actually kind of
caught her.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
So, as a personal note, on a side note, you
yourself, dominica, are a writer, right.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I write crime novels And we've talked
extensively on my history.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, our search histories are crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so that is definitely was eye-opening to
see what I mean.
Obviously I'm not gonna doanything like that, but it is
crazy how that can bite you.
And actually she tried to hideher search history, because we
will get to that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
But So I just wanted to know do you feel like cases
like this and the mother andyouth talk do they give writers
such as yourself a bad name?
Is there always like?
do you think there's a stigmanow created by cases like this?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
You know it's interesting because that you
should mention it a stigma,because a lot I self-publish
very proudly And these otherwomen that we're gonna talk
about did self-publish as well.
And one of the things that Ifound very interesting is that
one of the issues that a lot ofself-publishers have is that
(08:01):
we're not quote, unquote, realwriters as far as the general
population that's concerned,because there's that moniker of
like self-published, so youdidn't go through the whole
process of being vetted, eventhough most everybody that I
know, i mean, we hire our owneditors, like we're essentially
(08:22):
publishing houses, so we have awhole team of people working on
these books.
They're not just us.
You know, hi, it's Rue.
So as I was going and doing theresearch for this, it was
interesting that every newsarticle which, by the way,
there's a lifetime movie thatwas made of this with Sybil
Shepard and Great Gutenbergwhich is like come on.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I mean, come on, But they every article I wrote just
called her a romance author Andthere was no.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
There was a little suspense, right, wasn't there
like a team of suspense andstuff.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, her romance novels are of the romantic
suspense variety, right, I thinkit's like the wrong husband,
the wrong seal.
She had this whole series about, which I find very interesting,
about finding the wrong personand then finding the right
(09:21):
person And she but anyway, so,going back to that, like
everywhere I saw, they justcalled her an author, which for
a number of years that has beensomething that self-published
authors have been fighting forbeing like hey, we're actually
small business owners, we arepublishing houses, we are a ton
(09:42):
of people to work on these books.
This isn't just like somecrappy pamphlet that you put out
onto Amazon.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And the thing is it's like in different industries.
You know, one can self-producetheir own film and
self-distribute it on Amazon.
You can do that.
You can create your own music,self-distribute online.
So we do live in this age where, you know, we're able to
produce original content and doit on our own.
But it's interesting that thereis like that assumption of
(10:12):
writers who self-publish.
I really wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, and it's gotten much, much better.
When at the beginning likebecause I've been
self-publishing since like 2012,like at the beginning back in
the early days people were like,oh God, what are you doing?
But there is so much freedom tobe able to find your own
readers and, you know, reallyfocus on the work and not have
to focus trying to get throughthis gauntlet of publishing
(10:40):
houses, which, by the way, is acomplete racket.
They give you shit contractsand you make so very little
money And they don't actuallyeven market you.
But that's a whole otherconversation.
So, going back to her, so she soanyway.
So it was interesting hownobody like said that about her
(11:02):
in a derogatory manner.
It just shows how far thatindustry has come, because she's
just a romance author who wrotethese books and, of course,
ended up killing her husband.
But going back to her husband,when he was killed, he, as a
first mentioned, he was a very,very popular teacher And there
(11:23):
were some quotes that were lefton the school's Facebook page
from his students And I havesome of them just to kind of
show the kind of guy he was.
And there was one quote he wasboth the biggest pain and the
biggest inspiration I had there,and quote one student wrote,
quote sometimes we reallyresented him for his snark and
bluntness, but he was also oneof the smartest, most thoughtful
(11:45):
people I've ever met and wouldtake the time to help with
whatever you needed.
And so, again, he was justreally, really loved, except for
by his wife, which he was doingsome shady stuff During the
time that he was in in theschool.
She and this was surveillancevideo that was later watched by
(12:09):
the police showed her drivingher Toyota minivan at 708 by the
front of the OCI building,which is the Oregon Culinary
Institute, and then she was seenleaving the area in that same
car at 728 am.
And now, because she thoughtshe was smarter than everybody
(12:30):
else, she arrived back at theOregon Culinary Institute
driving the same Toyota minivanthat was seen on surveillance.
Yeah, very quickly after thedetectives arrived at the scene,
She had said by the way thatshe was home.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh, she initially denied that drive by the initial
.
her initial drive by Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And the video still hasn't come yet because of 2018.
That still is is good, it's nota deep fake.
But she never actually, eventhrough her entire trial, she
never made an explanation.
She didn't try to, she didn'ttry to deny it or explain it,
and in her trial she actuallyhad a psychologist say that she
(13:16):
just couldn't remember becauseshe was traumatized.
So right, right, so she So.
So the officers, when shearrived at the scene, said like
where will?
Okay, what are you doing here?
where have you been?
and she said that she'd beenhome that morning And she hadn't
left her house until she wascalled about an incident at OCI.
Now, i couldn't figure out whocalled her, whether it was the
(13:37):
police or if it was one of thestudents, because she had been
married to this man for 26 years.
Absolutely, people are like Ohgotta call the wife if you find
Daniel dead.
And she gave the police atimeline of when Daniel left the
house But again really tried tostick to her story that she had
stayed home.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Now she was acting weird as well, From what I
understand at the time that shewas talking to investigators at
the same do tell how weird.
And just like her manner is,there was no real grief.
It was as though she knewsomething was wrong, but once
she's finding out what's goingon It it doesn't affect her, as
(14:21):
you would expect.
The one what, especially for acouple that had been married for
so long.
By all accounts, also from theneighbors and family that had a
beautiful relationship, likethey adored one another.
He really took good care of herAnd, to give a little more
backstory, she had been marriedto a cop Initially.
That was her first marriage Andthen they moved to Portland
(14:44):
where she met Dan at a differentculinary school in the early
90s.
He was married at the time withthe son.
The two of them just fell fromone another, eventually got
married.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, it was.
You know, when I found herwebsite through the way back
machine, she wrote about herselfwas really really odd.
And now, of course, you know,whenever you're reading people's
bios you're like, okay, youknow, it always seems kind of
(15:23):
awkward.
And literally her first line iswriters are liars.
I don't remember who said that,but it's not true.
And she goes on to talk abouthow she digs deep and unearthed
portion of her life Andsometimes it's better to change
(15:44):
the ending, which again it's.
There's always like thisnegativity to her, this bio,
which again, is writing abouther life.
And the thing that kind ofreally struck me is how, before
that quote that I read out thatthe way that she wrote she said
(16:04):
that you know and this isdirectly quoting from her about
page is that Her imaginaryfriends that she writes about.
They live larger than life,larger than life lives, and they
always have happy endings.
Because, again, she's writingromance, but her personal life
(16:27):
is never as clearly defined.
And she said, you know, herbeginnings are hard to locate,
there's weird middles and she'slike, you know, it's always kind
of a link in the chain.
And she says that she's marriedto a chef and that she lives
with chickens and turkeys in herbackyard fabulous vegetable
garden.
But then she says for those ofyou who have longed for this,
(16:51):
let me caution you.
The old adage is true Be carefulwhat you wish for.
When the gods are truly angry,they grant us our wishes and the
payment is always high.
Oh, and I'm like, um, wow, okay, well, you don't sound like a
very happy woman right there,and again, we're kind of going
(17:14):
into what her own words means.
But, like you know, again, ihave a bio.
I don't really talk about myrelationship with my husband in
such a way, obviously at all,but most authors don't go so
deep into I don't know.
It just shows that there wasissues and this was from it
(17:38):
looks like it was from 2000 andit was on her website in 2018,
which was the year that sheactually killed her husband, and
she's like you know, like allmarriages, we've had her ups and
downs, more good times than badAnd they were, i guess, living
in an apartment because theirhouse was being rebuilt from a
(18:00):
house fire, and that's again.
It's just.
This doesn't sound like a veryhappy woman.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
No, she's not, And I think a lot of that may stem
from what his son said in hisimpact statement at her hearing,
that she was very shallow and ashell.
And you know, the and myresearch found that the one job
(18:28):
she had was she was working fora pension company and then
decided to get into writing.
He claimed that she was veryshallow and felt in the shadow
of his father.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
you know, obviously you know he's in the community.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
he's doing all these things And she's just like
trying to focus on writing,trying to make a name for
herself something.
And folks who have read herbooks actually say they're
boring, that they're just kindof very formulaic.
And so again, as his sonmentions in court, like I think
that may have something to dowith a lot of this, like he's
(19:09):
the breadwinner, like she justwants to contribute in some way
but she doesn't know how.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Right, right, exactly .
So going back to the day thatthe body is found, you said that
she was acting weird.
She also said that, of courseagain something out of a book
her husband had no enemies andshe had no idea who'd want to
kill them, kill him.
The police also asked if Danielever brought a gun to work to
(19:36):
protect himself, and Nancy saidthat she had recently purchased
a Glock nine millimeter handgun,but they hadn't used it yet and
he did not bring it to work.
So she, of course, gave thisGlock to the police and Leland
Samuelson.
at the Oregon State Crime Lab.
He analyzed the bullets thatcame from Daniel's body and he
(20:02):
said that they were most likelyshot from a Glock nine
millimeter.
However, when he tested the gun, they it was determined it was
not the firearm that shot andkilled Daniel, because the
grooves on the on the bulletswere different.
So for those people who don'twrite about crime or know about
guns, typically when a bulletcomes out of the barrel of a gun
(20:27):
, it creates striations in thebullet that you can match to see
, and it's always very specific,because not every gun has the
same kind of straight.
It doesn't create the samestriations in.
it's like a fingerprint,essentially, and so they were
like okay, well, the Glock thatshe gave them, it wasn't the gun
(20:50):
that was used to kill herhusband.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yes.
Another interesting thing isokay in terms of her acting
weird.
When she's told that herhusband's been shot, she says by
an AR 15.
And then they're like why?
why would you assume that?
and her response is oh, becauseof all these school shootings.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Oh, that's interesting.
I mean, I guess that would belike a good sort of.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Get off my trail, cover Right, like oh, it must,
yeah, was it an AR 15.
But I just find that yourhusband's been shot Like, oh my
God, none of that, none of that.
It's a sad look on her face butshe's kind of like, oh, was it
an AR 15.
Like tell me what kind offirearm killed my husband?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Like exactly like what, Like what is this Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
But this Glock is interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
It actually ends up the Glock is the, the lynchpin
in the case.
That gets her, that gets herprosecuted.
So on June 5th 2018, she, nancy, calls the lead detective,
whose name is Darren Posey, andasks for a letter from him
(22:06):
saying that she was not asuspect for her husband's murder
because she needed to provideit to her life insurance company
.
And when the police asked, it'slike oh, it's interesting, you
have life insurance on him.
Well, how much is it?
She says, oh, it's only 40 K.
So the detectives are like okay, well, a husband is dead, he
(22:28):
has no enemies, he'swell-beloved in the community.
Guess what?
We're looking at you becauseyou're the wife And at this
point, we've seen footage of youpiping by.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You said 40K right.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, this is the key a thing.
It's interesting because thiswas so.
I read a lot of this from thearresting affidavit.
Okay, this was initially whatshe said was 40.
Right.
The detectives refused to giveher the letter And then they
started calling insurancecarriers, being like hey, who
(23:04):
has an insurance policy on thesky?
And so they discovered in theaffidavit that it was the amount
of insurance policies was inthe amount of 350K.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
The thing.
You had two other policies.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
But that only came out in trial So in the trial
documents you find out thatactually the full total was 1.5
and not the 350.
So but she was arrested on thelying about the 40K to the 350.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Right, and then also, this is three days later.
She's having this conversationwith the lead investigator about
the insurance policy, threedays after her husband's death.
Yeah, you know, let's find outwho did this.
How can this be?
But no, let's, i got to findout what's the old insurance
policy, right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
And this was around the time that Daniel's son was
actually helping her and tryingto be there for her because he's
like okay, you know, like youknow, your husband has been
murdered and that's a veryviolent act, which I know that
he talked about in papers later.
You know, there was.
He was very angry about thefact that he had come to be her
(24:14):
support in this trying time andshe was just trying to figure
out how to get the money.
So, you know, police radar waslike okay, this is something's
going on here.
So they went through Daniel'sphone and they found that the
couple had a joint iTunesaccount and through the joint
iTunes account, they were ableto see the search history, and
(24:36):
I'm not quite sure how of andthis is the initial kind of deep
dive.
They go into the search history.
They found that someone hadsearched for quote 10 ways to
cover up a murder, and so shewas arrested on September 5th
2018.
And as she was being arrested,she said quote, you're arresting
(24:59):
me.
And quote.
Then added quote, you mustthink I murdered my husband And
quote.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
So I mean it's either that or that.
I, you know right, killed oneof the Murdochs.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Right, exactly So.
But what was really fascinatingabout this is what the police
and the investigators in theprosecution held as the main
theory of the case, because, aswe said about before, that the
murder weapon didn't match theballistics of the bullets that
(25:35):
were found in Daniel's body.
However, she had been searchingfor a ghost gun, which is an
unregistered and untraceablefirearm, and what they had?
so their theory was that Nancyhad swapped out the slide and
(25:58):
barrel of her Glock 17 with adifferent set to murder her
husband and then reinstalled theoriginals.
So therefore, the ballisticswouldn't match.
And when they saw a photo ofthe Glock that she gave them,
they noticed that the slide andbarrel weren't properly seated,
(26:20):
which is how they really startedwith their suspicions.
And so they went looking intoher computers Now they had done
a full on search for, and theybecause they didn't have any
other digital evidence likethere was no, no weird phone
(26:40):
calls, there were no weird textmessages, but they were like
okay, well, we found through heriTunes that somebody had typed
in how to cover up a murder, andso they were like okay, we need
to find out when she purchasedthis Glock and from who, whether
(27:01):
she did purchase a ghost gunand they had these three
computers that they had found.
One was found in a closet,another one was on her bed And
then the final computer wasrecovered from a storage unit.
So they decided to turn to adigital investigation platform
(27:24):
developed by Magnet ForensicsAnd they started analyzing all
this digital evidence that wereon these computers.
And so this is actually one ofthose interesting cases that has
been in kind of the policeworld of being like wow, this
was really interesting, thatthey built their case entirely
(27:48):
around internet evidence And itwas all search history.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, just as that case about.
I'm blanking on her name, butthe girl from Plainville who
suggested that her boyfriend goahead and kill himself, you know
, he gets out of the car And shesays could you skip back in?
I believe that was the firstcase that relied heavily on text
messages.
So we are definitely living inthis world now right, where it's
(28:14):
like wow here.
Now here goes a treasure troveof all of her information, which
she claims was just part of herresearch.
Like she wasn't done.
Hey, I'm writing this book, youknow, and this is just research.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Right, exactly, which I mean again, except for she
has a dead husband.
So there is that.
So they didn't find anything onthe computers in the storage
unit or on her bed, but the onein the closet was a whole
different thing.
So they followed breadcrumbsAnd they she had been searching
(28:51):
for a ghost gun kit Yeah, fromNovember 2017.
So this is definitelypremeditated, and there was a
ton of research results fromNovember 2017 to March 2018.
And more research is comingready for that.
It's, you know, not totallystrange to be looking up Glock
(29:12):
17 purchases, but then she wasalso looking on how to break the
gun down to a barrel and slide.
And then she was researchingghost guns and trying to figure
out when they were sold.
She was also looking to whetherGlocks had big kickbacks.
(29:33):
She was searching for videos onghost guns And then she in
February 2018, she startedlooking on where to buy a gun
locally.
So the searches included gunshops in Portland When do you
have to register a gun in OregonShows, which she did end up
buying the gun that the policegot from her home, her husband
(29:57):
only gave her the money.
Her husband right.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, said here, take this money go ahead.
Exactly, you should get one.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
So she bought that gun at a local gun show.
But then she started visitingeBay for Glock slides and
barrels And she actually won anauction for those items.
And then she started looking atvideos about how to clean a
Glock, how to load a Glock andhow to disassemble a Glock.
(30:27):
And then, of course, threemonths later, daniel Brophy is
murdered And they found theghost gun kit and they found the
Glock 17.
But what they'd never found wasthe additional slide and barrel
that she ordered on eBay.
(30:48):
And they found the kit.
Yeah, they found the kit, butthey never actually found the
slide and barrel.
It was probably underwatersomewhere.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I was just going to say I'm surprised she didn't use
the eBay defense.
In other words, hey, if this ispre-manitating and I wanted to
do it immediately, i would havebought it now, but instead I did
an auction.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Right, right Right.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Exactly.
But this whole gun parts, whichlater she would go on to say
again part of research forcharacter in her book.
it's about how the characterdisposes the gun and then is
able to use it again.
So Right.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
And so the motive that the prosecutors gave at
trial was that the the Brofieswere struggling financially The
fall before Daniel Brophy waskilled.
They had taken out $35,000 fromhis retirement account, which
was about half its total, tocatch up with mortgage and
(31:45):
credit card payments.
And she in her defense was like, well, i would have done much
better with my husband alive,and because we were cashing in
the retirement plans and theyintended to downsize their
property, and her defense wasspeculating that Daniel's murder
could have been a robbery gonewrong, except for again, there
(32:09):
was nothing robbed.
And then we come to the how tomurder your husband.
And it was the website called CJand publish Now in her trial.
the judge excluded the essayfrom trial, but the prosecutor
did quote its themes withoutmentioning it by name.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
And then what's?
10 ways to cover up a murder.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That was originally the first kind of trail they got
from the iTunes account to belike, hey, wait a minute, you
got to look at the wife again.
Yeah, but this was alsosomething that they had found,
that she had written And, as yousaid, it was written a while
back, it was 2011.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Was it excluded because of under First Amendment
?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I'm not sure It didn't.
I couldn't find why And Ididn't watch the trial.
Did you watch the trial?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I watched her a lot of her testimony.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And boy, wow, i mean, she's a storyteller.
You watch her and you can seeher brain working.
She's very uncomfortable.
There are certain questionsasked by the prosecution which
she'll ask a question.
The prosecutor will ask her aquestion and she'll answer by
(33:31):
asking him a question And reallyjust gives way too much
information.
you know, it's the type ofthing where it was, i think, one
of the questions that she wasjust basically horrible on the
stand.
She couldn't answer why she wasnear the scene at the time
video of the car And instead ofjust coming up with something,
(33:55):
she leads up by saying like Oh,i went to a Starbucks, but she
keeps going.
I went to a Starbucks.
I think it was pretty crowded,so I was able, but I stood
online, you know, i got mycoffee and then from the coffee
I was able to get back.
You just answer the question.
But because she's in this frameof mind, I'm a writer, i can
develop stories, people canbelieve me.
(34:16):
Again, this is just anotheropportunity I feel when she's on
the stand, to be a writer.
improve that.
she is intelligent.
You know, i think she wastrying to get away with what she
deemed the perfect crime.
So that's the part I reallyfocused on and I saw was her.
you know her sensing and hertestimony.
(34:37):
Her test is just horrible.
She incriminates herself.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Right, right, right, right, no, and she also I guess
I didn't realize this, but shespent $15,000 for the gun and
the gun parts and the ghost gun,which is kind of insane if
they're taking $35,000 out oftheir retirement account to just
(35:04):
pay for their mortgage.
So I'm like, where'd she getthat whole money from?
I mean, you said that she hadgiven her that money, but it's
like $15,000.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
But well, the thing is she said that he gave her
like $400.
And then, when her credit cardwas last used, she took out $400
or something like this,something about how, like he
always had cash, and shebasically spent $400, which came
back to bite her in the buttbecause they said, well, what
happened to the other $400?
(35:33):
And then to what she says well,you know, i had to get an oil
thing to clean it.
I got a book on how to properlyuse a Glock That's like $30.
So, like, what happened to allthat other money?
It's just like that.
So that's kind of weird.
But from what I understand,again, there were two other life
insurance policies he had whichultimately totaled a lot of
(35:57):
money, right?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, which was $1.5 million, And, of course, if all
yeah, and if all he has in hisretirement account is $35,000,
that's not retirement money.
I mean she was 72, he was 63,but that's not there's.
no, that's not money forretirement at all.
So I mean it sounded like yeah,$1.5 million check.
(36:21):
She's thinking she's going tolike go riding off into the
sunset.
She claims it was never aboutthe money, right, which I mean.
then what was it about then?
Like come on.
And then she the fans had apsychologist and they claim that
she suffered retrograde amnesiafrom the trauma of finding out
(36:44):
about her husband being murdered, which is why she couldn't
exactly tell people what she wasdoing driving by his workplace
at the exact time that he waskilled.
And now she drove by at sevenoh eight, but then they didn't
see her car or her driving untilseven, 28.
So she had that 15 minutes togo in.
He probably let her in and shekilled him.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, and she also understands.
she says that when she'sgrilled about the gun and like,
are you, hey, how are you withthe gun?
You know, like your husband hada gun, like what would you do
with the gun?
And she said, you know, i'mgoing to keep around with it,
but like I didn't know how to dothe slide thing, it was just so
difficult.
And you know there are gunowners who say it's actually
(37:28):
pretty easy to just take theslide it out in the barrel.
So she lies about that.
And then she's asked uh,somebody got a shooting range.
You know, did you?
how did you practice using thegun?
And uh, she, you know I wentout in the backyard mostly and
you know, just shoot around.
And they have a ping from hercell phone uh, near, near a
(37:51):
shooting range, uh, to which sheclaims that there is a lot of
property for them to buy andthey were considering buying
some property, either flippingit or moving, and so that's why
she was in the vicinity.
So it's just for everything thatthey brought up.
She just had, like a quickresponse And obviously, again,
being a storyteller, i feel likeshe just had created all this
(38:13):
story.
It's a lot of it just soundedso rehearsed, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
No, well, and that's what the jury thought.
It was rehearsed and not true,because they um, she was found
guilty for second degree murderon May 2022.
She had a seven week trial andshe was sentenced to life in
prison And I think the nextpossibility chance of parole was
in 25 years, which mostly shewill not be around, and she is
(38:42):
serving her sentence at thecoffee Creek correctional
facility in Wilsonville, oregon,and it was actually 1.4 million
and that she was going to owntheir $300,000 home, which again
it's like yeah, i don't knowdivorce.
Like I never quite understandwhy people kill their spouses.
Like it's just something that Ijust don't understand,
(39:05):
especially when it comes to themoney.
Like why don't you just divorcethem?
Like what's the problem here?
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Right, um, it's also interesting to note that there
apparently might have been ajail confession.
I think maybe I and perhaps inholding her, but apparently an
inmate testified that she, youknow that she admitted to her
that that she did kill herhusband.
Uh, i again, i don't know ifthat's after her sentencing, but
(39:34):
I'm pretty sure she testifiedthat it happened before.
Uh, but you know informants,you take it or leave it?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, exactly, those are a little tricky needs a
lesser charge.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
But recently watched a bunch of interviews and did
some research on Diane Downs,who I was never really familiar
with.
She was a killer of herchildren.
Actually two survived.
She shot them point blank.
One passed away and twosurvived.
One's paralyzed.
(40:09):
But at the time she wasdiagnosed psychotic And in the
rankings she's between the NightStalker, richard Amirah's and
Ted Bundy.
So it's really interestingbecause off the bat you rarely
see female psychopaths right,but there's.
(40:33):
Her behavior comes very closeto I don't think that me.
And see, here is a psychopath.
I think maybe, if anything, shegot wrapped up in her writing.
Maybe Was the writing read herhearing for the past 12 years?
(40:55):
Is this something that she hadbeen thinking about Over?
time what do you think?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I mean, i personally, just reading from her bio, she
just sounded like she was nothappy in her marriage, right And
she thought She doesn't seemlike a psychopath to me.
No, it just seems like a woman.
And again, i don't understandthis thinking, being like oh,
there's a lot of money on thetable, nobody's gonna find me
(41:21):
out because the insurancecompanies aren't like evil and
never wanna pay things out.
So she's like oh, $1.5 million,yeah, i'll be able to get that
if my husband dies mysteriouslyand then I have retirement and
then I don't have to worry aboutit.
So, but that to me seems soweird because, as we know here
in the United States, insurancecompanies will do anything in
their power not to pay out.
(41:42):
And I don't know, and that'stypically you're always the
first suspect when your spousedies, and that includes both men
and women.
And I mean, i guess maybe shethought she was too smart.
Like it's like oh, i'm a crimewriter, i know how to do all of
this.
(42:03):
This shouldn't be difficult.
I can pull this off for that$1.5 million.
And I'm like, really, you'regonna go like life in prison
because you're most likely gonnaget caught for like a measly
$1.5 million.
I never understand the moneyamounts equal to a human's life
either.
I'm like how did you think thiswas a good idea?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Like that just it's so weird Power and greed.
it's very weird And it's not myunderstanding.
they yet to find the ghost gun.
Is this?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
true?
Yeah, they've never been ableto find the slide or the barrel,
and I don't think they will.
I mean, she probably tossedthem somewhere or buried them in
the garden, like who knows, butthey were never able to find it
.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Also during her testimony.
It's interesting that she keepslooking over her defense team.
It's like she'll say somethingand look over for like a prover,
like ooh, did I say the wrongthing.
Like she can't tell what'sgoing on.
That's so weird.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I mean, are you gonna watch the civil shepherd?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna.
of course, i'll tell you whatOh my God, this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
And now she gets a movie made about her, because
it's kind of insane.
I mean I do think there musthave been.
I mean, I guess, somenarcissism going on around there
, being like I'm so smart, I'mnever gonna get caught, yeah And
just like in the other case Iwas, you know, in a murder.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
she wrote part two Yes, you'll see.
that's also regarding lifeinsurance policies.
Yeah, you know, don't alwayssee it's.
that seems to be that I againlike do you think that?
so?
do you think this was a longtime?
26 years is a long time right?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
26 years is a long time to be living with somebody,
and the fact that nobody of theneighbors or the son thought it
was a bad relationship, likethey all said, it was such a
great relationship.
So that is also crazy.
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I mean Do you think it was a long time coming.
And she, I mean, I mean, herwriting is dark.
Her writing is dark.
Right, She writes mostlyromance, but then she'll write
the dark stuff online.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
But that was only like I mean, but that was only
for eight years, like what wasshe doing for the other 19 years
?
Like that's what I'm saying,like it's just, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Right, it is weird, but it is her fallback.
So I'm wondering if, like thisis like something that she'd
always wanted to do, but like,how can I get away with it?
This is how you get away withit, like hey I just wrote about
it Doesn't mean I did it.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
You know, right, right, and I don't know that's
elaborate, that's reallyelaborate.
And that is very elaborate, andI just keep thinking as like,
come on, ladies, you can makeyour own money.
Like, go do it, go make somemoney.
Like believe in yourself, likeI.
Just it's hard for me to yeah,it's hard for me to wrap around
when you have supposedly a goodmarriage with a decent man who,
(44:58):
by the way, was like 10 yearsyounger than her too.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yes, so I'm like And he was very supportive of her
writing.
From what I understand, youknow she wasn't making that much
money from it.
He was still very supportiveAnd yeah, i mean, i think that
probably bothered her too, likethis whole.
You know, like hey, go makeyour own money, lady.
Like you know you could do ittoo, you know.
(45:22):
But then I think, when you know, your hopes get shattered.
You're not maybe as well knownas you'd like to be, maybe not
that many, and then like There,is never.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I mean again maybe in her mind, but there is, like
never, a reason to take anotherperson's life Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Like.
So I'm just trying to figureout a motive, i'm just trying to
figure out how she goes fromthat I mean again.
She's married to a cop, you know.
So there's that like she'smarried to a cop and then she
meets Dan, right, and then Dan'salso married.
But then they meet, likethere's some sort of attraction
and obviously that they havetowards one another.
But then you just go back andit's like, did she learn
(46:00):
anything from the cop?
Like it's interesting, shemarried a cop.
You know, like that's kind ofan odd thing.
And then maybe there's like abit of resentment.
You know, like I feel like this.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I feel the motive is ultimately resentment you know
Well that and also like thatthis woman have any friends like
through all of the articlesthat I read, there was never any
friend like Yeah.
Come in to say like no, shedidn't do it.
Or yeah, i've known her for along time, it was just neighbors
.
So I mean, i guess maybe theisolation of like I don't know,
(46:35):
i mean it's a weird one becauseshe doesn't.
Well, but then reading her bio,there's like definitely dark
undercurrents of unhappiness andnot being happy with the way
her life turned out, and regretsand but that's still.
I mean how does that go to?
(46:56):
like killing the man that yousupposedly love and has been so
good to you for the last 26years?
Like that's like what ishappening there.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
That's just completely, and his family was
very accepting of her at thetime.
I mean, look, listen to thatsituation.
Both of them are married.
You know they're having anaffair and then a blossoms they
get married.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh, so it actually had an affair that broke up
their marriages?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
I believe it was like this attract, yeah, they just
fell for one another and theywere like see it to their
respective spouses Interesting,interesting.
So the son was just like okay,you know, you're my stepmom, and
his mom and his parents werevery supportive.
They basically welcomed her andembraced her into the family.
So you know, is it a thrillkill?
(47:44):
Is it just jealousy?
I just, you know a deviant mind.
What would drive a deviant mindEspecially?
yeah, there's this whole thingand we'll see again in the next
case.
You just why can't you get atthe bores?
You could just get at the boresand move on.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, and with the next case she had kids, she'd
get alimony, she'd get childsupport, like what is?
the.
I mean, that case is just nutstoo, but anyway, we will talk
about that next week.
So so that was the case ofNancy Brophy in Murder She Wrote
(48:24):
.
Part One.
Murder She Wrote.
Part Two will be next week.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yes.
Quick question Are her?
do you know for books you'restill available?
Because next week's subject herbook was pulled Like after her
book.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
Let me see, i'm looking.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I'm sure all these books are still available.
Let's see If you can't find acopy of if you were here or if
you were here anymore, thechildren's grief book She has.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
yeah, her books are still up.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Wow, yeah, so at least one of them.
The wrong husband Wrong neverfelt so right.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Book four There you go, the wrong husband.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, so there you have it.
So that was an interesting caseAnd good job.
I saw the book, her books.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
That's nice, I know right.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Like.
It didn't look like it soldwell, it didn't have very many
reviews, right, but Yeah, so,yeah.
So, thanks, liev, we'restarting our social media.
Finally, i'm trying to getChris on to the Instagram and
Instagram and Facebook hate me,but I'm going to try to figure
(49:39):
it out.
And so, yeah, if you like us,listen, subscribe and leave us a
review and we read all of them.
And till next time, thank you.
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
(50:24):
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
It helps other listeners findthis podcast.
Follow Dominica best.
Presents the deviant mind.
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, visit the best
storytelling networkcom, whereyou'll find show notes, my books
, links to social media and muchmore.
Join my Patreon for specialsubscriber perks and a free
(50:48):
podcast Patreon for specialsubscriber perks, like two extra
exclusive episodes a month anda Q and a with me at patreoncom
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