October 27, 2023 • 60 mins
Ever wondered about the killer who inspired the screenwriter of Scream, the iconic horror film from the 90s? Dominika and Chris talk about the crimes of Danny Rolling and his horrific murder spree of five students in 1990 and how Kevin Williamson was so creeped out by a documentary on him he wrote the script in three days.
As we reach the climax of our episode, we scrutinize another case tied to Scream. Discover the chilling convictions of Brian Draper and Tory Adamczyk, who were found guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy, claiming they were inspired by scream.
Hosted by Dominika Best and Christopher Gordon.
Visit thebeststorytellingnetwork.com where you’ll find show notes, my books, links to sources for this episode, social media and much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey everybody, welcome to the DB at Mind.
Yes, we're still here.
We're still alive.
Hello, it's been a couple ofweeks now.
Happy Halloween.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, everyone's like were they missing?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Like what happened?
What happened?
Did somebody get to them?
So yeah, anyway, havingchildren on October Halloween
just makes everything verydifficult.
Here today to talk about Scream, the 1996 movie written by
Kevin Williamson, directed bythe very great Wes Craven.
(01:07):
Yes and yeah.
When do you remember watchingScream for the first time?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I do.
I remember seeing it in thetheater when it came out and
just being sort of terrifiedjump scares.
I feel that might be one of thepivotal horror film that really
got the idea in the with how todo jump scares.
And Wes Craven is just like amaster.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well you know what was interesting Because we both
have worked in film.
I didn't actually realize thatthe idea of the Slasher horror
film was no longer like.
I remember Freddie Kruegercoming out in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And I actually didn't watch Halloween until my 20s,
so that was like way you know,because Halloween came out in 78
, 13th and Jason, like thatcomes out.
That was all 80s.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That's like in the 80s.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That was in the 80s, so that was like the heyday of
the slasher film.
But by the 90s, goals thathadn't made any money, that it
was like a really not, it waslike a dead genre that nobody
was going to see.
Yeah, and so the way we cameacross this was that 1994.
So we're 1990, 1994.
Kevin Williamson, who was thewriter of Scream, he was a
(02:28):
struggling screenwriter.
He had just sold his firstscript, killing Mrs Tingle.
He was looking for anotherproject and so he was house
sitting and he was watching aBarbara Walters documentary
series called Turning Point,about the serial killer Danny
Rawling.
Now, so he's, he's sittingthere at night and all of a
(02:52):
sudden he gets really spookedand he goes I don't know if it
was the kitchen or something andhe sees an open window and
hadn't realized that that windowhad been open, and because he
was so freaked out about whatthe serial killer Danny Rawley
did that he armed himself with aknife and called his friend for
support.
And the friend, you know Idon't know if he was trying to
(03:16):
make fun of him or trying tocalm him down was like hey,
let's talk about really funhorror characters like Freddie
Krueger and Jason, inconversation, while he was still
, like you know, armed himselfwith a massive knife, and he is
on the phone with holding aknife, by the way.
Right, Talking about like Jasonand Freddie, and when he woke up
(03:36):
the next morning he had thislike horrifying nightmare and he
was like, oh my gosh, I amgoing to write the right kind of
an opening home invasion.
So he put that in like a couplehours and then he spent the
next three days that he he wrotethe script for Scream it was
(03:57):
originally called Scary Movieand he did it while listening to
the score of Halloween forfurther inspiration and he
developed a lot of the screenplay around a single line of
dialogue which is quote moviesdon't create psychos.
Quote Wow, which did you see it?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Did you see it in theaters when it came out?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Um, I did.
No, I didn't because it waswhen I was in architecture
school and I wasn't sleeping andso there wasn't.
I didn't watch movies or read abook for like five years.
By the way, listeners, whateveryou do, don't go to
architecture school.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
It's just bullshit, anyway so there I say, that's a
good blueprint to remember.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah right, Like, oh my God, Um, so.
So that is kind of how Screamand we can talk about Scream a
little bit later about like itreally influenced the slasher
movies that came.
It was one of the most slasherfilms ever.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
To confirm it's really more so his watching the
case of the Gainesville Ripper.
That inspires him and freakshim out to write something.
Right, that is correct.
So what's fantastically odd andbizarre is how one work is
inspired by a killer and thenthe movie comes out and inspires
two more killers.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Which is kind of crazy when you think about the
quote that he kind of centeredhis entire screenplay on was
again, movies don't createpsychos, movies make psychos
more creative.
Um, so I think that's kind ofinteresting because he wrote,
and you know there are somesimilarities between the Gaines,
(05:48):
ville, ripper and Scream,because it all is set in a
college town and there's a veryshort period of time which we
will go over, um, and you knowit's like a home invasion, right
killing, which I guess mostkillers do do.
But then at the same time, likeI remember, actually that mask
(06:11):
was everywhere for the Halloweenthat came, because I think it
was put out in the summer.
Um, it came out in thesummertime and I just remember
Halloween, there was this, allthese masks.
Do you know the story of themask?
Do you know that?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I was.
The only thing I thought wasthat Danny rolling himself worth
during one of his robberies.
Is that true?
Not that I could find Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, what is?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
the origin.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I don't know, I haven't been able to find that
either I was curious.
Maybe it was just somecompletely inspired costume
designer.
Because Wes Craven, actually,you know again when I found
really fascinating, he was notthe first choice for the
(06:56):
producers to be directing it.
He had done a vampire inBrooklyn the year before and it
was a horror comedy and it didterribly Any more.
And that they were looking atwhere Danny Boyle, of right
Transpotting yeah, ofTranspotting.
(07:16):
Tom McLaughlin, who I don'tknow.
Sam Raimi, who would have beentotally fun, oh wow.
Robert Rodriguez, who theydon't know.
George A Romero, of course, likethe original.
And Quentin Tarantino andStephenie Waller.
So they were all doing that,but none of them had ever done a
(07:37):
horror satire.
A lot of them had done horroror comedy.
You know, like Sam Raimi isperfect for like a horror comedy
.
So is George A Romero.
But well, no, george A Romero,the original zombie movie Night
of the Living Dead, night of theLiving Dead, but he was more
like political horror, thatwasn't like or satire.
(08:00):
So, and he was Craven, theywere worried about him as well,
because he had only directedhorrors, he hadn't directed
satires and he was really hopingto do a haunting of Hill House,
but because his other films haddone so poorly, they were like
(08:23):
I don't know.
And so he's like, okay, give mean offer that he couldn't
refuse, which I'm assuming theymust have given him, like shit
money.
Dimension did make him an offer, or maybe he can't refuse, so
maybe he made a lot of money.
Anyway, I didn't see exactlyhow much money.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
It really was about the box office.
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Oh, it's huge.
It's a huge turning point inhorror films Because, as I was
saying before, horror films werenot doing very well.
And here's the other thingBefore Scream, most horror films
never.
And when they sold off they hadDrew Barrymore and Courtney Cox
(09:04):
sign onto it.
That was like a huge thingBecause, if you think about it,
Halloween, Freddie, even Psychoit was star, like those movies
made them stars but they had nostars when they were going into
production, Like nobody reallyknew who Jamie Lee Curtis was
before Halloween.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It was mostly unknowns or older Story with
Fred Astaire, you know.
I think maybe even BertLancaster was in it.
You know, I feel like a lot ofold movie stars started
converting to doing like thesesupernatural horror film.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Rodney McDowell comes to mind, you know but they
weren't at the peak of theircelebrities.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
There was a good mix of, like young, fresh faces and,
like older, established actors.
Max Bonsai though, yeah, ofcourse.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Like somebody like Drew Barrymore, Courtney Cox,
who was in like major friendsfame at that point David
Arquette.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Dave.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Arquette wasn't as well known either.
I mean he was part of the ARCET.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Neve Campbell.
Party of five.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
That's true, that's true.
And then she was signed onafter Drew Barry.
Drew Barrymore signed on first,and then she actually was
supposed to be the NeveCampbell's part Killed because
that was also with throweverybody off.
And now of course there wassome rumors saying that she
didn't want to do the movie atall and but she didn't want to
(10:25):
piss off Bob Weinstein.
So she was like okay, I'll say,I'll take this smaller part of
Casey Becker, what was that?
I mean, it was like a big roleyeah totally, and it does.
It's kind of like you know, likethis was the first movie that
would do that.
It's like you know, you thinkshe's going to be the main
(10:46):
character and she's dead withinthe first five minutes.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So what was that?
What the uh, the calls comingfrom inside the house, uh a
stranger.
A stranger calls twice Astranger calls, but basically
that's opening scene is likeyeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, exactly, oh, it's in the house.
Uh-oh, yeah, um, so that's so,anyway.
So the scream.
Obviously, we can talk so muchmore about it, but um, let's go
about.
Let's talk about theGainesville Ripper who um Kevin
Williamson, watching one nightand inspiration for this massive
(11:27):
jog, or not?
Um was born on May 26, 1954.
Um, shockingly horrifying, hedid confess to killing eight
people, finally, when it was allsaid and done, and he was
(11:47):
sentenced to death for the fiveGainesville murders in 1994 and
he was executed by lethalinjection in 2006.
So, um.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Did not ever apologize to the family behind
the screen for his actions,instead of saying a hymn to
himself.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Right, because again, he was.
Um, he was diagnosed with, uhlike sociopathic tendencies,
like uh, what is that?
Uh, personality disorder, theum that all serial killers have.
That I'm totally blanking onand it's not in my notes.
Um, personality disorder.
(12:25):
And but you know, in his trialit came up that he was deeply
abused.
Not saying again, this is, youknow, abuse.
People don't become serialkillers, but a lot of serial
killers have been abused.
Um, he was born in Shreveport,louisiana.
His father was a Shreveportpolice officer named Joi-Ems
(12:48):
Rawlings who told Danny that hewas abused and beaten by him.
Um, so was his mother, Claudia,and his brother, Kevin.
Um, his mom was in the hospitalmany times, uh, with domestic
abuse issues.
She repeated to leave him, butshe always came back, um and he
(13:09):
would handcuff him um, have himbe arrested for a night, saying
that he was embarrassed of him.
You know, real, real good stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You know, and all this coming from an abusive cop,
an officer, someone that theson could have perhaps looked up
to, but you know, yeah exactlyso.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
um, as a teenager and young adult, he was arrested
several times for robberies inGeorgia and he was also caught
spying on women getting dressed.
Um, he couldn't hold down asteady job and he worked as a
waiter and just was, you know,like a pretty gigantic loser.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
He was also uh.
He joined the service whenworse came to worse and I was
breaking loose.
He said you know what I'm justgoing to join the service from
when she was later discharged,uh for his uh mental health
issues.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes.
So, um, now we're going toswitch over, as we do Um, to the
five students.
One student was from Santa FeCollege and four from the
University of Florida, so we'regoing to kind of do a bit of a
timeline of what happened.
(14:22):
So this all happened withinthree days, which I think is
what you know.
Kevin Williamson did use howquickly people were killed and
scream, I think it was at thehigh.
It was at a high school, itwasn't a college, because I
think scream two was at thecollege, so it was at the high
school.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So first two victims SoniaLarson and Christina Christie
(14:43):
Powell.
They were new students at theUniversity of Florida in 1990.
Um, christie Powell wasextremely excited to be moving
into the next phase of her life.
Um, sonia Larson was known as asweet girl, reserved, she liked
working with children and theyboth had met each other during
(15:04):
the summer and decided theywanted to be uh, ultimately
found an apartment off campus ina complex called Williamsburg
apartment.
Now, um, sophia, I'm sorry,sonia Larson's mom was not very
happy that she was living offcampus, but unfortunately the
dormitories were all full and uh, they moved in and then the
(15:28):
families could not reach themfor days.
So they started getting reallybeen installed, but they hadn't
called either.
And finally, uh, the Powell'sthey lived closer went over
there, and on August 26, 1990,powell's parents arrived at the
apartment and banged on the door, but they didn't get a response
(15:50):
.
And so they asked the mate goahead.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was just going to to back up a little.
They, uh, she was reallyexcited Powell was to attend the
school and in fact, her father,uh, university of Florida
mascot Necklace.
And so they go over, you know,they make sure that she settled
okay and everything's fine.
And what actually leads to allthis is her saying I'll call you
(16:14):
guys tomorrow.
She apparently kept in goodtouch with their parents and
never hear from her.
And then, as you were justsaying, when they do go visit
and they're knocking on, uh,their apartment door, um, there
are tons of stickies like stickynotes, because that's hey, stop
by, there's a party later, sothat they saw those notes and
(16:35):
got really worried.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And that's when they start like vigorously knocking
on the door knocking the doorand so, when they didn't get a
response, they got a maintenanceworker and um, he actually the
maintenance worker also calledthe police, the company, him as
well, um, so the worker brokedown the door and a police
officer was right behind him,followed him into the apartment.
(16:59):
They saw um first a there was aquote that I found when he went
in.
This is a quote from BettyKernott, who was the manager of
the apartment complex and shewas there at the same time that
the bodies were found.
Uh, quote.
When he went in, I followed himin the apartment and I saw the
(17:19):
young lady on the bed.
You could see uh, she was in abad position.
I just not said quote.
My maintenance man unfortunatelyran down the stair screaming oh
my God and threw up, andunfortunately the parents were
right behind them.
So they found um Christy Pelldead on the first floor of the
(17:40):
apartment.
She had been raped and stabbedmultiple times and had been
mutilated.
Sonia Larson's body was foundon her waterbed on the second
floor with stab wounds in herarm and torso.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Renaked and put into uncompromising, really fluid
positions.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes, uh, with uh one of the victims hair was fanned
out and she was on her back feeton the floor.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Um, and eventually they noticed that, uh, both uh
victims were duct taped, uh,around their wrists and mouth,
but then there was, you know, itappeared as though the duct
tape, but there was, there wasremnants of duct tape around
their wrists.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, and there was also soap on one of the women's
bodies.
Yeah, um as well.
Now, yes, now they had, um, hehad used the screwdriver to
essentially wedge into the doorjam to break open the door, and
that was kind of one of his um,I want to say kind of signatures
(18:46):
.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Um.
Also interesting to know, uhwas that when he first enters
their apartment he sees uh Pellis asleep and so he goes to
Sonia's room.
Uh, um, they're both asleep,but he goes to Sonia's room and,
for whatever reason, makes thedecision not to sexually assault
(19:09):
her, just kill her, and thengoes back to a sleeping Uh and
sexually assault her.
So not, you know, he assaultsone but not the other.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yes, exactly, and so the police were very worried
that the suspect would commitmore murders, and unfortunately,
another murder happened thenext day.
Her name was Christa Hoyt, andshe was an aspiring police
officer who had been workingpart-time at the Al-Qua County
(19:41):
Sheriff's Office.
Yes, Megapunch.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
This actually occurred 12 hours prior to
Powell and Sonia.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Oh, so she died before, but they found her the
next day.
Correct, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Which is Eerie, which makes the whole matter really
earlier.
You know, eerie, he starts withHoyt and then 12 hours later
he's doing it again.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Right, exactly.
So I mean, he went into afull-on frenzy.
So yeah, she didn't show up forwork on August 26, 1990.
And so they dispatched Barbaraand another officer to her home,
and she was also found raped,stabbed to death, mutilated and
beheaded.
Now, later, he had said that hehad come back to Christa's home
(20:29):
because he thought he haddropped his wallet, and that was
when he beheaded her, which isa monster like.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Monster and I can.
Same MO, exact same MO, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So she was the third victim.
Well, I guess the first victim,but now this is three victims
within 20 hours and then themorning after that.
So on the third day, on August28, 1990, paul's and Manny
Taboada Taboda were found dead.
(21:08):
They were 23, both of them andhad been close friends since
high school and had just begunliving together.
Manny Taboda wanted to be anarchitect and Tracy wanted to be
a lawyer.
So what the police believehappened was that Manny attacked
(21:32):
first.
So the killer broke into thehome and he fought with Manny.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And, if I may, I got to jump in here.
In that Tracy's pal, lisa, saysthat she had heard what was
going on.
She went to another school andI called Tracy and said hey, are
you okay, are you keeping safe?
Tracy said yeah, I'm fine.
You know what?
I got Manny here Like Manny'stotally gonna protect me.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And that's what I'd like to have at her.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, exactly Because, again,as a woman, you think, well, if
I have a man in the house, I'mgonna be totally fine.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
And he was quite a bit too.
He was a really large dude.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.
So I mean, well, I just Iwonder, you know, like in that,
because he's obviously in afrenzy at this point, like you
know how you can have thesuperhuman adrenaline going, but
in any case, so, yeah, so MannyManuel was killed first, and
then Tracy Pauls, who went andsaid like see if he was okay,
(22:32):
saw what was happening, ran toher bedroom, tried to close the
door and then, unfortunately,danny like kicked the door open
and she was found in theirliving room and again it was the
same MMO.
She had been raped, she wasposed, she had soap on her lower
body and she had soap on herwrists and mouth and he had
(22:53):
obviously taken the tape again.
So, so of course the police arelooking for him.
Hasn't found him.
There's concerned parents allof a sudden calling pulling kids
out of schools.
This was at the beginning ofthe school year, so it of course
(23:14):
sparked national mediaattention there and they thought
that because of the MMO, it wasthe same guy.
So the all of the homes of thesevictims were essentially a
(23:34):
budding wooded area which is whyI hate the freaking woods and
all of the back doors werebroken into.
So he went through the back door.
It was near a wood and thosedetails was important because on
the day of Krista Hoyt's murderthe police had also responded
(23:55):
to a robbery at a bank which wasa half a mile away from her
home, and during the robbery oneof the tellers had slipped a
red die pack into the bag ofmoney which then of course
exploded.
And later that night an officernoticed the man walking into a
wooded area and campsite thatunfortunately they did not find
(24:18):
the suspect, who was DannyRawling, there at the time.
But what they did find was aduffel bag that had a
screwdriver bag of money whichwas the face by the die, and a
cassette player with a tapeinside.
But the police didn't realizethe evidence they had and so
(24:40):
they stored it and they didn'tconnect the bank robbery to the
student murders because a gunwas found at the campsite and
the murders didn't involve a gunand they obviously didn't find
a knife.
So they didn't actually listento the tape until months later.
But it proved to be a crucialpoint in this whole case.
A crucial point in this wholecase.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
But what was and amongst the evidence was that
they found was the screwdriver.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
The screwdriver that had beenpried, but they-.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, they didn't connect it at that time.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And they actually already had a suspect by the
name of Ed Humphrey, yes, whowas being questioned, and the
DNA testing wasn't that greatbut-.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
He was a blood type A and the blood at the scene was
B.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Right, which that was one of the reasons why they let
him go.
But he was in police custody.
But then all of a sudden therewas a phone call by a woman
named Looking for her name rightnow Cindy Jarocic Jarocic, who
was on a trip through theFlorida Panhandle in August 1990
(25:47):
.
And she heard this news reportabout Grizzly String of Murders
and it made her think of a manfrom her Louisiana hometown
church who used to spend timewith her and her family and I
was like, oh my God, like whywould you, how would you hang
out with a serial killer?
And the whole thing was kind ofthere had been a family that
(26:07):
was murdered in 1989 in Shrewdand the police believed it was
rolling, and he, but there was,I guess, no proof.
And then he told her ex-husband, her then husband, stephen
Dobbin, that he liked stickingpeople with a knife.
(26:31):
And her then husband was like,yeah, you gotta go.
We.
Oh, he liked to stick knivesinto people was the exact quote.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And so, and the family that was murdered was a
grandfather, his granddaughter,the aunt yeah, the mother was
not the mother, Sean's mother,the boy's mother was not there,
Cause the idea was that Sean wasgonna stay at his grandfather
(27:04):
Tom's for the weekend orwhatever.
No, yeah, we'll bring it backMonday.
And just never heard from him,call this school, never heard.
And so, yeah, however, whileeveryone was stabbed, the aunt
forgive me, I'm just blanking onher name here, but the aunt,
(27:25):
the aunt with the same way.
Years later, those victims werefound she was naked, she was in
a loom position, yes, Also hadduct tape that was on and then
removed.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, so it was Julie Grissom, so it was the Grissoms
, so November 4th 1989, it wasWilliam Grissom, 55, 24 year old
daughter Julie Grissom andeight year old grandson Sean
Grissom.
And again, she had also thetape residue on her left, in a
similar position as the otherwomen, but her body had been
(28:00):
rinsed with vinegar rather thanto try to clean the body.
But she said the caller.
When she called Crime Stoppersshe said you need to call, you
need to look into Danny Rawlingand that was, I mean, obviously
a huge break in the case.
And you know, it's interestingbecause I always think like they
(28:21):
must when a serial killer isstriking about information and
to think that this time aroundthey actually were smart enough
to actually investigate DannyRawling like they took her not
as a crank.
They investigated the murders,thought it was dirty and then
(28:44):
started investigating Danny.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, and it's interesting how in their
investigation is Robberies.
He's like spending most of the80s behind bars and he leaves a
trail and, what's interesting tonotice, how much of this case
starts to affect society.
I mean, this really blew up onthe media and the police wanted
(29:08):
it to go to the media.
So everyone in the area, yeah,so it's really interesting about
this and what's reallyinteresting about this case is
just, once again, how the mediabecame such a big source of this
news.
The police actually wanted,after the fifth victim being
(29:29):
Manuel, to get it out into thenews.
So literally the next day itmore or less becomes a national
story.
Guard was brought in and therewere tons of helicopters Like
they really really were on amanhunt.
Everyone University of Floridawas in lockdown, as we said
earlier, hundreds of studentsstart leaving the university, so
(29:53):
it just had an absolutely hugeeffect on everyone and I guess
also the fact that they allhappened so quick, but then a
short amount of time.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, it was.
Yeah, the police areinvestigating Danny Rawlings.
They actually found out thatthree months before the
Gainesville murders in May 1990,danny Rawling and his father
had an argument and Rawlingsfather chased him out of the
house at gunpoint and so DannyRawlings came back with his own
gun and shot his father in theface and it was a small caliber
(30:25):
gun.
The father survived, butwithout permanent damage.
But then three months later hegoes on to killing Spree and
they finally listened to thetape and the tape contained
recordings of a man talking andsinging.
He sings that he's a killer, adrifter and gone insane.
(30:46):
He talks about his family andhow he went down the wrong road.
He talks about killing a deerand then at one point he says
his name, danny Harold Rawling,which meant that they now had
him.
For the bank robbery had thescrewdriver that had been used
to open up the open up the homes.
(31:10):
Now when they went searching forhim he had already been
detained 40 miles south ofGainesville in Marion County
Jail because he had committedanother robbery at a supermarket
.
10 days after Paul's and MannyToboda's bodies were found and
they found that he had tightbeat blood and was on November
(31:30):
15th 1991, he was charged withfive counts of first degree
murder in connection to thecollege students' deaths and he
faced the death penalty.
And then he was also convictedon federal bank robbery charges
and he was sent to Florida StatePrison.
And he, of course, in jail,talked supposedly with another
(31:54):
inmate who was on death row forkilling a drug dealer in the 70s
and he detailed all of themurders and he also said he
wanted to confess.
So he actually Bobby Lewis,wrote a five page letter
outlining the details that hehad said and it was ones that
only the killer knew, which werehis exact movements in the
(32:16):
houses that had happened withhis victims and he on his trial.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
He sang, remember it was a fiance.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, that's right, because there was a book came
out about him that they got veryclose yeah, very close and he
claimed that he had splitpersonality disorder and that
first he was named Yanad, whichwas Danny's spelt backward.
Yanad was a bad person, but notevil, but that the second
(32:54):
person he had inside of him wasa personality called Gemini, and
he claimed that Gemini had donethe worst killing.
But of course that was like oh,the devil made me do it and it
was around the time that theExorcist 3 had come out and he
(33:15):
had been known to.
Actually was one of the thingsin the Exorcist 3, speaking of
horror films.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well, it's interesting to know.
Exorcist 3 makes me think ofJeffrey Dahmer, who also enjoyed
that film, and also there weretimes, I mean, what a movie club
, huh.
And then there were times whenhe referenced other serial
killers, ted Bundy being one ofthem, that he numbers in a way
(33:47):
inspired by them.
So yeah, I mean the other thingthat's interesting, going back
to the effect that had onGainesville a lot of.
There were tons of sales withina week for baseball bats,
knives, guns just tons ofself-defense happening and being
(34:10):
scooped up by the town, whichyou gotta understand how this
really affected a place wherethis sort of thing just really
never happens.
You know Gainesville, thosehaving underbelly, but it's not
near the colleges, so this isjust highly unusual and
(34:31):
absolutely terrifying.
Yeah, you know, the first threemurders occur within 24 to 48
hours.
So the cops are trying to findthey can, but they don't want to
release the intimate details orinformation, right, because
they don't want the killer tofind out how much they know.
And incidentally, it was Liseeventually used what they call a
(34:56):
violent crime preventionprogram, which was new to
tracking down killers andwhatnot.
It was a huge, extensivedatabase where any law
enforcement agency could just,and this was like one of the
first databases where like theirrecords would come up and
everything, and so, thanks tothat, a lot of the information
on our rolling appeared and cameup and they're like okay.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, he's definitely our guy and so again, he was
tried and he was convicted,found guilty and, like we said,
he actually did die in 1997 forthese killings.
But you know the story is howquickly it came to be.
I could totally see whereScream kind of came from, that
(35:43):
which you know, a lot of bodiesdropping in a very small amount
of time, the media attention,because there was, you know,
that whole media portion of itas well.
You can kind of see the Notshadows but like the echoes of
that crime in Scream.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
The pace matches the intensity of the pacing of
what's happening in real life.
I feel too.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, and it's again that whole idea that horror
films have about co-eds.
Right, like you have a bunch ofyoung pretty people in a very
small space and you know it'sperfect for kind of like a Like,
what do you, how do you want tosay it?
The fishing bowl.
(36:29):
So which kind of is always thething that happens in horror
films as well.
Right, you have like thecollege campuses or the
sororities or things like that.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
He also told Cindy at one point yeah, I want to head
down to Gainesville.
You know University of Florida,they have like the cute girls
there I can watch, right, right.
And then it's creepy just toknow that he was in a tent in
the forest in the back of theuniversity.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I mean the whole thing is Creepy
as hell, creepy as hell, creepyas hell.
And the guy was a monster andgross and happy he's not walking
amongst us on this planet.
But then we can now go on tothe next two creepers who saw
Scream, thought it wasabsolutely amazing and decided
(37:23):
to essentially do the same thingto get some notoriety.
And, of course, again goingback to that quote that Kevin
Williamson made for the entiremovie, that the movies just make
killers more creative.
They don't create the killer,and I find it interesting for
(37:45):
this.
So we're talking about the caseof Cassie Jo Stoddart, who was
a 16 year old, who was murderedby her classmate, tori Adamczyk
and Brian Draper on September22nd 2006.
Now when you look these guys up, they are literally children,
(38:05):
like it's 16 going on 12.
And you know it's when I wasreading through this case.
They had a kill list for abunch of their classmates and I
kind of wonder if they decidedlike it was from the screen
movie, but they seem kind oflike the shooters, like this is
(38:32):
what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
This is the closest we could come to a taste of what
it might have been like tointerrogate and convict the
Columbine shooters.
Have they not killed himself?
I just got that same feelinglike oh.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, like they have the same ideas to, you know, be
relcasts and have you know, havenotoriety, and so even that
they use scream as like, hey, weshould do this, it like it.
It felt to me like a more of awe're not dealing with like kind
(39:12):
of your typical serial killersociopath.
It was more of like, oh, we'redealing without the guns and
they just got caught on victimbecause they decided to use a
knife.
Yeah and videotape it becausethey were going to make a horror
film.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So it's like yeah, they made a whole video diary
and their plan was, yes, theywere working on a horror movie.
They actually asked the victimif she was going to be in it and
she agreed.
And you know they're both theirfavorite films and they were
avid horror fans.
(39:47):
However, they were both intothe victim, they both had
crushes on the victim and, inthe case we learned that their
friend, matt well, notnecessarily Tori's friend, but
Matt winds up being the boy whostarts dating the victim.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, so okay, and because he was there the night
that she was killed they, shewas house sitting for her aunt
and uncle and she invited herboyfriend, matt Beckham, to join
her at the house and he invitedTori Adamchik and then he
(40:28):
brought along Brian Draper andthey were keeping a death list.
But nobody knew this untilafter Cassie was there.
They hung out at that house fora couple hours and Draper had
unlocked the basement doors thathe and Adamchik could sneak
(40:49):
back in later that same evening.
And then they they left, andthen they parked down the street
, put on dark clothing, glovesand masks and they snuck back
into the residence to thebasement door While Matt and
Cassie were watching TV.
Now Cassie was trying to getMatt to stay over Lee nod, but
she can come here.
But she was like no, I feelguilty.
(41:11):
I promised my aunt and uncleI'd be watching this house, and
so she stayed behind and theylocated the circuit breaker in
the house.
They turned off all the powerin her house and came upstairs
and let's see, they had a daggerand then a hunting type knife
(41:40):
and supposedly they tried tofrighten her.
But she didn't get frightenedand then she was asleep on the
couch and that's when theyattacked, and they approximately
a stab to her 30 times, 12 ofthem for fatal.
Yeah, and they fled, and they,and again this videotape.
I mean again, these arefreaking children literally
(42:04):
filming themselves.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
However, right after they've committed, right after,
like right after you hear Briansay I can't believe I did it, I
killed.
I killed someone like oh my God, like this doesn't feel real,
and so I was like oh my God,dude, and it's just like they're
they're kids and this is onYouTube, by the way, too.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
So if you find, if you look up murder of Cassie Joe
Stoddart, the tape is actuallyon YouTube that you can watch.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
They tried to, along with a lot of evidence.
They tried to burn some itemsand that was one of the items
that they tried to burn in thisTroy.
But when cops showed up andthey found a lot of evidence and
footprints, they found the tapeand they were able to recover
everything, everything that wason that tape.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
So, props to technology Right, exactly, and,
of course, because these arekids and they're fucking idiots
being monsters and children.
They, of course, were the lastpeople to see her live for her
boyfriend, matt, so they wereimmediately interrogated, like
literally the next day, and it'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
their interrogation is just so interesting to watch
how they just go from makingthey're on the same page telling
these lies and then it justevery lie at every turn just
start.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
It's kind of masterful how the interrogator
is just get them to break downyou know right, right, exactly,
and of course I believe it wasBrian Draper was the one who
cracked and he led the police toa stash of evidence he'd buried
in the Black Rock Canyon areaand that included two dagger
(43:46):
style knives, a silver and blackhandled knife and a folding
knife, red and white mask latextape, which contain the footage
essentially explicitly planningthe the murder, and that also
included the footage of themreacting after the murder was
done.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Now, ryan, claimed hey, tori was the one who
stabbed her.
I was just there, I dropped theknife.
I didn't want to do anything.
But he was not dead, bro, she'snot dead.
You got to do it and I want to,so I stabbed her leg.
He was like man, you can't,that's not going to do anything.
But that's when he claims hestabbed her chest.
He felt a tremendous amount ofpressure from the Tori.
(44:25):
But going back to this sort ofbizarre love triangle which is
kind of what it was, at the endof the day, matt didn't ever
really get along with Tori, butwas buddies with Brian and both
Ryan was on the cusp of askingAl Cassie, apparently for a
(44:50):
couple of years or somethinglike this.
Tori really had affection.
He really was drawn to Cassietoo and wanted to grow out with
her.
So then, when Matt comes in, Ithink this is like what starts
that fire and that just sort oflet's, let's kill these people.
That's just my guess, but I dosense that there was, through
(45:12):
the interrogation videos youwatched, there's jealousy.
I mean, tori even admits that.
You know he's all right.
I just don't like him, you knowright.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, no.
So I mean, yeah, I don't evenknow what to say.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, so it's just so gross.
And so yeah, I mean, ultimatelythey're right.
Both of them get one count offirst degree murder as well.
Tori gets conspiracy, but not.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Well, they I don't I mean.
My research was that they BrianDraper was found first degree
murder and conspiracy to commitmurder on April 17, 2007.
And then a Tory Adamczyk wasconvicted of the same charges on
June 8, 2007.
So they were both convicted offirst degree murder and
(46:05):
conspiracy to commit murderbecause, again on that tape they
showed the conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I was on this.
I was on the impression thatBrian, they found out wasn't
involved in the conspiracy andthat it all came from Tory.
So he got the added 30 years tolife without parole.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Um, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I may be, you know, I may be wrong here.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, I found that they both are received.
Life is in prison.
I mean they should, For paroleplus.
The evidence is there for theconspiracy?
Yeah, and they're at the Idahostate correctional facility.
They have, uh, had appeals in2010, 2011, and both of their
appeals were denied, so they'restill sitting in jail, um.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Interesting to note that during the second
interrogation of Tory, hisparents are in the room and
whenever they're left alone, thefather is just like come on,
we're going to love you nomatter what.
Like, just tell everything thatyou know.
So both kids just consistentlylie, they just lie after lie,
(47:13):
and the interrogators had somuch evidence, uh, and they just
sat there knowing that theywere uh fibbing like the entire
time.
But it was sweet, because thenthey would repeat their
questions and the stories wouldchange.
Of course, right, yeah, I wasthe one that said, yeah, this is
all Tory.
And then Tory is shocked Look,you can get yourself the
(47:34):
attorney just requested.
But we want to let you knowBrian just confessed and you
know he's saying that uh it wasall you yeah Right.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So, because they're dipshits, they of course turn on
each other and again, it's justwith that kill list.
It just makes me think it'slike, oh, it's just another
bunch of losers, um, with thisidea of killing their classmates
because they want to be knownand they, they want their names
out there.
So, um, that was the two casesfor scream.
And then scream itself.
(48:04):
Um, you know, box office Likeit.
It put teen horror films backon the map.
Yeah, it was, uh, it's still ahugely popular film.
It's a film franchise.
Um, and you know, you can stilllike it hailed that whole that.
(48:28):
I know what you did last summer.
There was a awesome streak.
There was like a bunch of those.
I know what you did last summer.
There was three of them with,like, um, some actors.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, exactly Uh.
But then I also feel like that,uh, the rebirth of those
slasher films uh then continuestoday with like, but it's like
really ultra violent.
You know you have Rob Zombieand uh some other folks uh
making really like like ultragraphic, uh violent slasher
(49:01):
films.
In other words, like it'sthere's always, I feel like it
comes in waves.
You know from like, uh, youknow last man on earth or M
right yeah To uh, you know dawnof the dead, I mean uh, night of
living dead, and then you knowyou start getting these.
(49:21):
Uh, I mean really ourgeneration got like some of the
late seventies, early eightiesslasher films when there were
still big box office hits.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I remember watching that night
around Elm Street when I was 10in 1985, it was 1985 that I came
out.
I remember watching that andbeing horrified, like it was so
scary.
But you know, again, I didn't.
I didn't see Halloween.
I mean I saw, I remember seeingJason, but I didn't see.
And Halloween is one of my like, I'll be watching it this
(49:52):
weekend.
I watch it every Halloween.
Um, I guess I feel like it'sthe, it's the, it's the original
one, which is like it's so, um,classic and scary.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Um, for me it's, you know, one of the earliest horror
films.
I remember saying was, at areally stupid early age, uh,
Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Oh, that's a crazy one.
That's such an interesting filmBecause it's not that bloody.
Like most people don't realizethat there isn't that kind of
horror.
But it's not like it's.
It's it's the anticipation of,and the horror of, like leather
face.
It's.
(50:34):
It's kind of fascinating towatch because, like I remember
seeing Saw for the first timeand saw also is not that gory
Like most people do three, fourand five are all about the
torture porn.
But the first one wasn't, itwas psychological for in a box.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Essentially it's interesting, because that's how
it's interesting, how audiencescan take what they see right In
a movie and just kind ofinterpret like all the things
that weren't there but like mayhave been, you know, in their
eyes, sort of thing happened.
Yeah, the omen and the exorcistTo me, you're, you're a
Halloween is, is my exorcist?
Like I'll watch, have you?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
heard the exorcist three.
Like, have you watched theexorcist three?
I have a very uh like thiswoman who I absolutely love, her
taste in film and she said thatthe exorcist three scared her
more than any movie has everscared her before.
And I don't think I rememberwatching the exorcist three, for
me that's.
I don't know if you saw the,the changeling and remember that
(51:37):
goes Of course that's right andstuff.
There's the cry.
If any of you have notchangeling, go watch the
changeling this weekend.
It's such a fantastic Go.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
The original Cause.
I think they remade itUnfortunately.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Oh, really, yeah, find the original one from like
1929 or 1981.
It is still good and so creepythat, like, your house is going
to be just the nightmare.
It is like every creek.
You're like, oh my God, what isit?
Yeah, oh, it's scary.
Um, so, yeah, so you're, soyou're.
What are you going to bewatching this weekend?
(52:14):
Are you going to have any?
Um, halloween.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well, yeah, because it's funny, because I did start
exorcist three actually, youknow Dorsey Scott's in it oh my
God, this is like prior to that.
So I rewatched the first one,which I just closed my mind, and
then I watched the second one,which is kind of a she's like a
little older now.
Yeah, you know, fun is aninteresting start, but, um, I
(52:40):
don't know like I feel likethere's so much to watch on
Halloween that I'll probablywatch the exorcist three or you
know, it's really, you know,considering psycho two better
than the first psycho.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Oh, that's interesting.
Well, you know, because psychoone, it's kind of like the
shining.
I did, yes, shining until, butthat at that point every horror
movie had already borrowed allof those images from that film.
So it was almost like two metafor somebody watching the
(53:15):
shining for the first time,because you're like, oh, I've
seen this, oh, I've seen this,oh, I've seen the video that
uses the twins.
As this becomes like it's, youcan't have that experience of
watching it for the first timebecause it's Like the jokes and
the memes and everything likethat.
Or hey, I'm Jack, you know,like him going through the door
(53:38):
and like it doesn't have thatsame punch.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
I think I'll watch that again though I just I love
the shining shining, I really do.
I've always been curious to seethe 1997 version that Stephen
King got behind and was likethis is how I really wanted the
movie to go.
You ever see that one I.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Oh, um, I think it might have been made for TV you
know, oh yeah, um, I haven't.
I think I think for thisweekend I'm going to try to
watch the X3 and then do mytypical Halloween.
Yeah, so Jamie Lee Curtis islike is my girl?
She's the last.
She's like the one who createdthe last girl standing, like
she's just chronic.
I absolutely love everythingshe does.
(54:20):
So I was so happy that shefinally won the Oscar for doing
Cause.
I'm a genre girl totally Like Ijust that's like that's my jam.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Yeah, I mean she, uh, she's broken her ass.
Like so long she's been in.
So think of her career, she'sbeen in so many movies.
Uh, I was just so excited alsothat she finally got it.
But Halloween, I mean she alsoplays it.
Well, see, that's the funnything is, in a lot of these
horror movies I think we forgethow good the acting is.
Like Anthony Perkins killspsycho, like he's just so.
(54:56):
Oh my God, I mean, jamie LeeCurtis is amazing.
Like you believe her?
Like it's not.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, and then Anthony Perkins like just yeah,
I, I, I still love psychobecause of I don't love the
ending cause it's so obvious,but I love the idea of the um
they take.
They took a lot from Ed Gein,right, and like the whole every
serial killer had a mother whoshamed him.
(55:24):
So it's like that perfectcombination of really bad brain
chemistry, abuse, and then amother who is abusing you and
you're just like, oh my God.
And so I thought that that wasso interesting for him to put
that into that movie.
So, even though he was acreeper as well, oh my God, just
(55:45):
the stories that have come outis Boy?
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well, you know, maybe one day Also.
The interesting thing is it'slike now there's such an influx
of horror, right Um, that I it'shard to like.
A lot of it looks really goodand I just can't.
I can never decide what towatch.
So then I just jump back to theclassics.
Like I'll watch the Omen, youknow what I mean.
Like I'll just watch.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yeah, which is like the creepy kid I mean.
Again, I'm pretty muchconvinced that, like my first
movie, the Christmas romance, ora horror film, because it's so
easy to like break in with ahorror film because of the fact
that you know you, um, it'scheap and easy and if you can do
it really well, there's so muchmoney in it because people love
to be scared.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yes, Um or be.
It's also a great springboard.
You know, if you do a greathorror film, then you can jump
into the films that you reallywant to do.
That's what's so cool.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Right, exactly which I mean.
I'm a you know my favorite, soI'm like definitely in the like
sci-fi.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
God, that is a great is Blade Runner.
I've seen it 200 times, butanyway, thank you.
Wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
I have to point something out, because if that's
what it's listening, okay.
So the way that Darrell Hannadies in Blade Runner, it's
replicated.
She does the exact same deathscene in Kill Bill.
Speaker 2 (57:07):
Oh, with the um last and like spazzing out I, I, I'm
going to have to recheck thatagain.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
I I've only seen Kill Bill once.
So oh that's yeah, it's a nicelittle Easter egg, but, yeah,
happy Halloween folks.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
Happy Halloween everybody.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
And uh, so next time you folks watch scream.
Now you know.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Now you know where it all comes from.
And again, if you want to watchsome creepy children be
murderous, Fox on YouTube.
Because, again, youtube has allthe horrors and apparently it
has the horror of these boystalking about killing their
friend who they had a crush on.
So it was probably this wholeincel thing again, which again
(57:51):
like it's because they actuallymentioned uh DiBold and uh Clebe
, whatever the Clebe, cleboldand whichever.
I think I'm getting their nameswrong.
The Columbine people um, theyactually do Again, just a bunch
of creepers with no imagination,killing a girl that they really
(58:11):
liked and instead datedsomebody else.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
I mean really those Columbine guys also made their
own movies, right, so of coursethey did.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
They wanted to be relevant, they wanted to be
somebody because deep insidethey knew there were nobody.
But that's like the incel thingtoo right.
Like the incels, like everybody, they deserve to be known
because they're just God'swalking the times.
A hundred, yeah, good times,good times.
Anyway, happy Halloweeneverybody.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Happy Halloween.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
No, no, no with witches and goblins and, uh, and
monsters and not apples withrazors in them.
Yeah, exactly, watch your candy,All right.
Bye everybody.
This episode was sponsored bythe Creek Killer Book one in the
(59:11):
Harriet Harper thriller serieswritten by me, dominica Best.
What would you do if you read?
The police found your body in acreek?
Find out in the Creek Killeravailable on Amazon.
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(59:32):
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forward slash the deviant mindpodcast Until next time.
Hey everybody, welcome to the DB at Mind.
Yes, we're still here.
We're still alive.
Hello, it's been a couple ofweeks now.
Happy Halloween.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, everyone's like were they missing?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Like what happened?
What happened?
Did somebody get to them?
So yeah, anyway, havingchildren on October Halloween
just makes everything verydifficult.
Here today to talk about Scream, the 1996 movie written by
Kevin Williamson, directed bythe very great Wes Craven.
(01:07):
Yes and yeah.
When do you remember watchingScream for the first time?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I do.
I remember seeing it in thetheater when it came out and
just being sort of terrifiedjump scares.
I feel that might be one of thepivotal horror film that really
got the idea in the with how todo jump scares.
And Wes Craven is just like amaster.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well you know what was interesting Because we both
have worked in film.
I didn't actually realize thatthe idea of the Slasher horror
film was no longer like.
I remember Freddie Kruegercoming out in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And I actually didn't watch Halloween until my 20s,
so that was like way you know,because Halloween came out in 78
, 13th and Jason, like thatcomes out.
That was all 80s.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That's like in the 80s.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
That was in the 80s, so that was like the heyday of
the slasher film.
But by the 90s, goals thathadn't made any money, that it
was like a really not, it waslike a dead genre that nobody
was going to see.
Yeah, and so the way we cameacross this was that 1994.
So we're 1990, 1994.
Kevin Williamson, who was thewriter of Scream, he was a
(02:28):
struggling screenwriter.
He had just sold his firstscript, killing Mrs Tingle.
He was looking for anotherproject and so he was house
sitting and he was watching aBarbara Walters documentary
series called Turning Point,about the serial killer Danny
Rawling.
Now, so he's, he's sittingthere at night and all of a
(02:52):
sudden he gets really spookedand he goes I don't know if it
was the kitchen or something andhe sees an open window and
hadn't realized that that windowhad been open, and because he
was so freaked out about whatthe serial killer Danny Rawley
did that he armed himself with aknife and called his friend for
support.
And the friend, you know Idon't know if he was trying to
(03:16):
make fun of him or trying tocalm him down was like hey,
let's talk about really funhorror characters like Freddie
Krueger and Jason, inconversation, while he was still
, like you know, armed himselfwith a massive knife, and he is
on the phone with holding aknife, by the way.
Right, Talking about like Jasonand Freddie, and when he woke up
(03:36):
the next morning he had thislike horrifying nightmare and he
was like, oh my gosh, I amgoing to write the right kind of
an opening home invasion.
So he put that in like a couplehours and then he spent the
next three days that he he wrotethe script for Scream it was
(03:57):
originally called Scary Movieand he did it while listening to
the score of Halloween forfurther inspiration and he
developed a lot of the screenplay around a single line of
dialogue which is quote moviesdon't create psychos.
Quote Wow, which did you see it?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Did you see it in theaters when it came out?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Um, I did.
No, I didn't because it waswhen I was in architecture
school and I wasn't sleeping andso there wasn't.
I didn't watch movies or read abook for like five years.
By the way, listeners, whateveryou do, don't go to
architecture school.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
It's just bullshit, anyway so there I say, that's a
good blueprint to remember.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah right, Like, oh my God, Um, so.
So that is kind of how Screamand we can talk about Scream a
little bit later about like itreally influenced the slasher
movies that came.
It was one of the most slasherfilms ever.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
To confirm it's really more so his watching the
case of the Gainesville Ripper.
That inspires him and freakshim out to write something.
Right, that is correct.
So what's fantastically odd andbizarre is how one work is
inspired by a killer and thenthe movie comes out and inspires
two more killers.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Which is kind of crazy when you think about the
quote that he kind of centeredhis entire screenplay on was
again, movies don't createpsychos, movies make psychos
more creative.
Um, so I think that's kind ofinteresting because he wrote,
and you know there are somesimilarities between the Gaines,
(05:48):
ville, ripper and Scream,because it all is set in a
college town and there's a veryshort period of time which we
will go over, um, and you knowit's like a home invasion, right
killing, which I guess mostkillers do do.
But then at the same time, likeI remember, actually that mask
(06:11):
was everywhere for the Halloweenthat came, because I think it
was put out in the summer.
Um, it came out in thesummertime and I just remember
Halloween, there was this, allthese masks.
Do you know the story of themask?
Do you know that?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I was.
The only thing I thought wasthat Danny rolling himself worth
during one of his robberies.
Is that true?
Not that I could find Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, what is?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
the origin.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I don't know, I haven't been able to find that
either I was curious.
Maybe it was just somecompletely inspired costume
designer.
Because Wes Craven, actually,you know again when I found
really fascinating, he was notthe first choice for the
(06:56):
producers to be directing it.
He had done a vampire inBrooklyn the year before and it
was a horror comedy and it didterribly Any more.
And that they were looking atwhere Danny Boyle, of right
Transpotting yeah, ofTranspotting.
(07:16):
Tom McLaughlin, who I don'tknow.
Sam Raimi, who would have beentotally fun, oh wow.
Robert Rodriguez, who theydon't know.
George A Romero, of course, likethe original.
And Quentin Tarantino andStephenie Waller.
So they were all doing that,but none of them had ever done a
(07:37):
horror satire.
A lot of them had done horroror comedy.
You know, like Sam Raimi isperfect for like a horror comedy
.
So is George A Romero.
But well, no, george A Romero,the original zombie movie Night
of the Living Dead, night of theLiving Dead, but he was more
like political horror, thatwasn't like or satire.
(08:00):
So, and he was Craven, theywere worried about him as well,
because he had only directedhorrors, he hadn't directed
satires and he was really hopingto do a haunting of Hill House,
but because his other films haddone so poorly, they were like
(08:23):
I don't know.
And so he's like, okay, give mean offer that he couldn't
refuse, which I'm assuming theymust have given him, like shit
money.
Dimension did make him an offer, or maybe he can't refuse, so
maybe he made a lot of money.
Anyway, I didn't see exactlyhow much money.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
It really was about the box office.
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Oh, it's huge.
It's a huge turning point inhorror films Because, as I was
saying before, horror films werenot doing very well.
And here's the other thingBefore Scream, most horror films
never.
And when they sold off they hadDrew Barrymore and Courtney Cox
(09:04):
sign onto it.
That was like a huge thingBecause, if you think about it,
Halloween, Freddie, even Psychoit was star, like those movies
made them stars but they had nostars when they were going into
production, Like nobody reallyknew who Jamie Lee Curtis was
before Halloween.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It was mostly unknowns or older Story with
Fred Astaire, you know.
I think maybe even BertLancaster was in it.
You know, I feel like a lot ofold movie stars started
converting to doing like thesesupernatural horror film.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Rodney McDowell comes to mind, you know but they
weren't at the peak of theircelebrities.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
There was a good mix of, like young, fresh faces and,
like older, established actors.
Max Bonsai though, yeah, ofcourse.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Like somebody like Drew Barrymore, Courtney Cox,
who was in like major friendsfame at that point David
Arquette.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Dave.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Arquette wasn't as well known either.
I mean he was part of the ARCET.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Neve Campbell.
Party of five.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
That's true, that's true.
And then she was signed onafter Drew Barry.
Drew Barrymore signed on first,and then she actually was
supposed to be the NeveCampbell's part Killed because
that was also with throweverybody off.
And now of course there wassome rumors saying that she
didn't want to do the movie atall and but she didn't want to
(10:25):
piss off Bob Weinstein.
So she was like okay, I'll say,I'll take this smaller part of
Casey Becker, what was that?
I mean, it was like a big roleyeah totally, and it does.
It's kind of like you know, likethis was the first movie that
would do that.
It's like you know, you thinkshe's going to be the main
(10:46):
character and she's dead withinthe first five minutes.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So what was that?
What the uh, the calls comingfrom inside the house, uh a
stranger.
A stranger calls twice Astranger calls, but basically
that's opening scene is likeyeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, exactly, oh, it's in the house.
Uh-oh, yeah, um, so that's so,anyway.
So the scream.
Obviously, we can talk so muchmore about it, but um, let's go
about.
Let's talk about theGainesville Ripper who um Kevin
Williamson, watching one nightand inspiration for this massive
(11:27):
jog, or not?
Um was born on May 26, 1954.
Um, shockingly horrifying, hedid confess to killing eight
people, finally, when it was allsaid and done, and he was
(11:47):
sentenced to death for the fiveGainesville murders in 1994 and
he was executed by lethalinjection in 2006.
So, um.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Did not ever apologize to the family behind
the screen for his actions,instead of saying a hymn to
himself.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Right, because again, he was.
Um, he was diagnosed with, uhlike sociopathic tendencies,
like uh, what is that?
Uh, personality disorder, theum that all serial killers have.
That I'm totally blanking onand it's not in my notes.
Um, personality disorder.
(12:25):
And but you know, in his trialit came up that he was deeply
abused.
Not saying again, this is, youknow, abuse.
People don't become serialkillers, but a lot of serial
killers have been abused.
Um, he was born in Shreveport,louisiana.
His father was a Shreveportpolice officer named Joi-Ems
(12:48):
Rawlings who told Danny that hewas abused and beaten by him.
Um, so was his mother, Claudia,and his brother, Kevin.
Um, his mom was in the hospitalmany times, uh, with domestic
abuse issues.
She repeated to leave him, butshe always came back, um and he
(13:09):
would handcuff him um, have himbe arrested for a night, saying
that he was embarrassed of him.
You know, real, real good stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You know, and all this coming from an abusive cop,
an officer, someone that theson could have perhaps looked up
to, but you know, yeah exactlyso.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
um, as a teenager and young adult, he was arrested
several times for robberies inGeorgia and he was also caught
spying on women getting dressed.
Um, he couldn't hold down asteady job and he worked as a
waiter and just was, you know,like a pretty gigantic loser.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
He was also uh.
He joined the service whenworse came to worse and I was
breaking loose.
He said you know what I'm justgoing to join the service from
when she was later discharged,uh for his uh mental health
issues.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes.
So, um, now we're going toswitch over, as we do Um, to the
five students.
One student was from Santa FeCollege and four from the
University of Florida, so we'regoing to kind of do a bit of a
timeline of what happened.
(14:22):
So this all happened withinthree days, which I think is
what you know.
Kevin Williamson did use howquickly people were killed and
scream, I think it was at thehigh.
It was at a high school, itwasn't a college, because I
think scream two was at thecollege, so it was at the high
school.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So first two victims SoniaLarson and Christina Christie
(14:43):
Powell.
They were new students at theUniversity of Florida in 1990.
Um, christie Powell wasextremely excited to be moving
into the next phase of her life.
Um, sonia Larson was known as asweet girl, reserved, she liked
working with children and theyboth had met each other during
(15:04):
the summer and decided theywanted to be uh, ultimately
found an apartment off campus ina complex called Williamsburg
apartment.
Now, um, sophia, I'm sorry,sonia Larson's mom was not very
happy that she was living offcampus, but unfortunately the
dormitories were all full and uh, they moved in and then the
(15:28):
families could not reach themfor days.
So they started getting reallybeen installed, but they hadn't
called either.
And finally, uh, the Powell'sthey lived closer went over
there, and on August 26, 1990,powell's parents arrived at the
apartment and banged on the door, but they didn't get a response
(15:50):
.
And so they asked the mate goahead.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was just going to to back up a little.
They, uh, she was reallyexcited Powell was to attend the
school and in fact, her father,uh, university of Florida
mascot Necklace.
And so they go over, you know,they make sure that she settled
okay and everything's fine.
And what actually leads to allthis is her saying I'll call you
(16:14):
guys tomorrow.
She apparently kept in goodtouch with their parents and
never hear from her.
And then, as you were justsaying, when they do go visit
and they're knocking on, uh,their apartment door, um, there
are tons of stickies like stickynotes, because that's hey, stop
by, there's a party later, sothat they saw those notes and
(16:35):
got really worried.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And that's when they start like vigorously knocking
on the door knocking the doorand so, when they didn't get a
response, they got a maintenanceworker and um, he actually the
maintenance worker also calledthe police, the company, him as
well, um, so the worker brokedown the door and a police
officer was right behind him,followed him into the apartment.
(16:59):
They saw um first a there was aquote that I found when he went
in.
This is a quote from BettyKernott, who was the manager of
the apartment complex and shewas there at the same time that
the bodies were found.
Uh, quote.
When he went in, I followed himin the apartment and I saw the
(17:19):
young lady on the bed.
You could see uh, she was in abad position.
I just not said quote.
My maintenance man unfortunatelyran down the stair screaming oh
my God and threw up, andunfortunately the parents were
right behind them.
So they found um Christy Pelldead on the first floor of the
(17:40):
apartment.
She had been raped and stabbedmultiple times and had been
mutilated.
Sonia Larson's body was foundon her waterbed on the second
floor with stab wounds in herarm and torso.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Renaked and put into uncompromising, really fluid
positions.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes, uh, with uh one of the victims hair was fanned
out and she was on her back feeton the floor.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Um, and eventually they noticed that, uh, both uh
victims were duct taped, uh,around their wrists and mouth,
but then there was, you know, itappeared as though the duct
tape, but there was, there wasremnants of duct tape around
their wrists.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, and there was also soap on one of the women's
bodies.
Yeah, um as well.
Now, yes, now they had, um, hehad used the screwdriver to
essentially wedge into the doorjam to break open the door, and
that was kind of one of his um,I want to say kind of signatures
(18:46):
.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Um.
Also interesting to know, uhwas that when he first enters
their apartment he sees uh Pellis asleep and so he goes to
Sonia's room.
Uh, um, they're both asleep,but he goes to Sonia's room and,
for whatever reason, makes thedecision not to sexually assault
(19:09):
her, just kill her, and thengoes back to a sleeping Uh and
sexually assault her.
So not, you know, he assaultsone but not the other.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yes, exactly, and so the police were very worried
that the suspect would commitmore murders, and unfortunately,
another murder happened thenext day.
Her name was Christa Hoyt, andshe was an aspiring police
officer who had been workingpart-time at the Al-Qua County
(19:41):
Sheriff's Office.
Yes, Megapunch.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
This actually occurred 12 hours prior to
Powell and Sonia.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Oh, so she died before, but they found her the
next day.
Correct, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Which is Eerie, which makes the whole matter really
earlier.
You know, eerie, he starts withHoyt and then 12 hours later
he's doing it again.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Right, exactly.
So I mean, he went into afull-on frenzy.
So yeah, she didn't show up forwork on August 26, 1990.
And so they dispatched Barbaraand another officer to her home,
and she was also found raped,stabbed to death, mutilated and
beheaded.
Now, later, he had said that hehad come back to Christa's home
(20:29):
because he thought he haddropped his wallet, and that was
when he beheaded her, which isa monster like.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Monster and I can.
Same MO, exact same MO, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So she was the third victim.
Well, I guess the first victim,but now this is three victims
within 20 hours and then themorning after that.
So on the third day, on August28, 1990, paul's and Manny
Taboada Taboda were found dead.
(21:08):
They were 23, both of them andhad been close friends since
high school and had just begunliving together.
Manny Taboda wanted to be anarchitect and Tracy wanted to be
a lawyer.
So what the police believehappened was that Manny attacked
(21:32):
first.
So the killer broke into thehome and he fought with Manny.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And, if I may, I got to jump in here.
In that Tracy's pal, lisa, saysthat she had heard what was
going on.
She went to another school andI called Tracy and said hey, are
you okay, are you keeping safe?
Tracy said yeah, I'm fine.
You know what?
I got Manny here Like Manny'stotally gonna protect me.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And that's what I'd like to have at her.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, exactly Because, again,as a woman, you think, well, if
I have a man in the house, I'mgonna be totally fine.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
And he was quite a bit too.
He was a really large dude.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.
So I mean, well, I just Iwonder, you know, like in that,
because he's obviously in afrenzy at this point, like you
know how you can have thesuperhuman adrenaline going, but
in any case, so, yeah, so MannyManuel was killed first, and
then Tracy Pauls, who went andsaid like see if he was okay,
(22:32):
saw what was happening, ran toher bedroom, tried to close the
door and then, unfortunately,danny like kicked the door open
and she was found in theirliving room and again it was the
same MMO.
She had been raped, she wasposed, she had soap on her lower
body and she had soap on herwrists and mouth and he had
(22:53):
obviously taken the tape again.
So, so of course the police arelooking for him.
Hasn't found him.
There's concerned parents allof a sudden calling pulling kids
out of schools.
This was at the beginning ofthe school year, so it of course
(23:14):
sparked national mediaattention there and they thought
that because of the MMO, it wasthe same guy.
So the all of the homes of thesevictims were essentially a
(23:34):
budding wooded area which is whyI hate the freaking woods and
all of the back doors werebroken into.
So he went through the back door.
It was near a wood and thosedetails was important because on
the day of Krista Hoyt's murderthe police had also responded
(23:55):
to a robbery at a bank which wasa half a mile away from her
home, and during the robbery oneof the tellers had slipped a
red die pack into the bag ofmoney which then of course
exploded.
And later that night an officernoticed the man walking into a
wooded area and campsite thatunfortunately they did not find
(24:18):
the suspect, who was DannyRawling, there at the time.
But what they did find was aduffel bag that had a
screwdriver bag of money whichwas the face by the die, and a
cassette player with a tapeinside.
But the police didn't realizethe evidence they had and so
(24:40):
they stored it and they didn'tconnect the bank robbery to the
student murders because a gunwas found at the campsite and
the murders didn't involve a gunand they obviously didn't find
a knife.
So they didn't actually listento the tape until months later.
But it proved to be a crucialpoint in this whole case.
A crucial point in this wholecase.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
But what was and amongst the evidence was that
they found was the screwdriver.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
The screwdriver that had beenpried, but they-.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, they didn't connect it at that time.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And they actually already had a suspect by the
name of Ed Humphrey, yes, whowas being questioned, and the
DNA testing wasn't that greatbut-.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
He was a blood type A and the blood at the scene was
B.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Right, which that was one of the reasons why they let
him go.
But he was in police custody.
But then all of a sudden therewas a phone call by a woman
named Looking for her name rightnow Cindy Jarocic Jarocic, who
was on a trip through theFlorida Panhandle in August 1990
(25:47):
.
And she heard this news reportabout Grizzly String of Murders
and it made her think of a manfrom her Louisiana hometown
church who used to spend timewith her and her family and I
was like, oh my God, like whywould you, how would you hang
out with a serial killer?
And the whole thing was kind ofthere had been a family that
(26:07):
was murdered in 1989 in Shrewdand the police believed it was
rolling, and he, but there was,I guess, no proof.
And then he told her ex-husband, her then husband, stephen
Dobbin, that he liked stickingpeople with a knife.
(26:31):
And her then husband was like,yeah, you gotta go.
We.
Oh, he liked to stick knivesinto people was the exact quote.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And so, and the family that was murdered was a
grandfather, his granddaughter,the aunt yeah, the mother was
not the mother, Sean's mother,the boy's mother was not there,
Cause the idea was that Sean wasgonna stay at his grandfather
(27:04):
Tom's for the weekend orwhatever.
No, yeah, we'll bring it backMonday.
And just never heard from him,call this school, never heard.
And so, yeah, however, whileeveryone was stabbed, the aunt
forgive me, I'm just blanking onher name here, but the aunt,
(27:25):
the aunt with the same way.
Years later, those victims werefound she was naked, she was in
a loom position, yes, Also hadduct tape that was on and then
removed.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, so it was Julie Grissom, so it was the Grissoms
, so November 4th 1989, it wasWilliam Grissom, 55, 24 year old
daughter Julie Grissom andeight year old grandson Sean
Grissom.
And again, she had also thetape residue on her left, in a
similar position as the otherwomen, but her body had been
(28:00):
rinsed with vinegar rather thanto try to clean the body.
But she said the caller.
When she called Crime Stoppersshe said you need to call, you
need to look into Danny Rawlingand that was, I mean, obviously
a huge break in the case.
And you know, it's interestingbecause I always think like they
(28:21):
must when a serial killer isstriking about information and
to think that this time aroundthey actually were smart enough
to actually investigate DannyRawling like they took her not
as a crank.
They investigated the murders,thought it was dirty and then
(28:44):
started investigating Danny.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, and it's interesting how in their
investigation is Robberies.
He's like spending most of the80s behind bars and he leaves a
trail and, what's interesting tonotice, how much of this case
starts to affect society.
I mean, this really blew up onthe media and the police wanted
(29:08):
it to go to the media.
So everyone in the area, yeah,so it's really interesting about
this and what's reallyinteresting about this case is
just, once again, how the mediabecame such a big source of this
news.
The police actually wanted,after the fifth victim being
(29:29):
Manuel, to get it out into thenews.
So literally the next day itmore or less becomes a national
story.
Guard was brought in and therewere tons of helicopters Like
they really really were on amanhunt.
Everyone University of Floridawas in lockdown, as we said
earlier, hundreds of studentsstart leaving the university, so
(29:53):
it just had an absolutely hugeeffect on everyone and I guess
also the fact that they allhappened so quick, but then a
short amount of time.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, it was.
Yeah, the police areinvestigating Danny Rawlings.
They actually found out thatthree months before the
Gainesville murders in May 1990,danny Rawling and his father
had an argument and Rawlingsfather chased him out of the
house at gunpoint and so DannyRawlings came back with his own
gun and shot his father in theface and it was a small caliber
(30:25):
gun.
The father survived, butwithout permanent damage.
But then three months later hegoes on to killing Spree and
they finally listened to thetape and the tape contained
recordings of a man talking andsinging.
He sings that he's a killer, adrifter and gone insane.
(30:46):
He talks about his family andhow he went down the wrong road.
He talks about killing a deerand then at one point he says
his name, danny Harold Rawling,which meant that they now had
him.
For the bank robbery had thescrewdriver that had been used
to open up the open up the homes.
(31:10):
Now when they went searching forhim he had already been
detained 40 miles south ofGainesville in Marion County
Jail because he had committedanother robbery at a supermarket
.
10 days after Paul's and MannyToboda's bodies were found and
they found that he had tightbeat blood and was on November
(31:30):
15th 1991, he was charged withfive counts of first degree
murder in connection to thecollege students' deaths and he
faced the death penalty.
And then he was also convictedon federal bank robbery charges
and he was sent to Florida StatePrison.
And he, of course, in jail,talked supposedly with another
(31:54):
inmate who was on death row forkilling a drug dealer in the 70s
and he detailed all of themurders and he also said he
wanted to confess.
So he actually Bobby Lewis,wrote a five page letter
outlining the details that hehad said and it was ones that
only the killer knew, which werehis exact movements in the
(32:16):
houses that had happened withhis victims and he on his trial.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
He sang, remember it was a fiance.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, that's right, because there was a book came
out about him that they got veryclose yeah, very close and he
claimed that he had splitpersonality disorder and that
first he was named Yanad, whichwas Danny's spelt backward.
Yanad was a bad person, but notevil, but that the second
(32:54):
person he had inside of him wasa personality called Gemini, and
he claimed that Gemini had donethe worst killing.
But of course that was like oh,the devil made me do it and it
was around the time that theExorcist 3 had come out and he
(33:15):
had been known to.
Actually was one of the thingsin the Exorcist 3, speaking of
horror films.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well, it's interesting to know.
Exorcist 3 makes me think ofJeffrey Dahmer, who also enjoyed
that film, and also there weretimes, I mean, what a movie club
, huh.
And then there were times whenhe referenced other serial
killers, ted Bundy being one ofthem, that he numbers in a way
(33:47):
inspired by them.
So yeah, I mean the other thingthat's interesting, going back
to the effect that had onGainesville a lot of.
There were tons of sales withina week for baseball bats,
knives, guns just tons ofself-defense happening and being
(34:10):
scooped up by the town, whichyou gotta understand how this
really affected a place wherethis sort of thing just really
never happens.
You know Gainesville, thosehaving underbelly, but it's not
near the colleges, so this isjust highly unusual and
(34:31):
absolutely terrifying.
Yeah, you know, the first threemurders occur within 24 to 48
hours.
So the cops are trying to findthey can, but they don't want to
release the intimate details orinformation, right, because
they don't want the killer tofind out how much they know.
And incidentally, it was Liseeventually used what they call a
(34:56):
violent crime preventionprogram, which was new to
tracking down killers andwhatnot.
It was a huge, extensivedatabase where any law
enforcement agency could just,and this was like one of the
first databases where like theirrecords would come up and
everything, and so, thanks tothat, a lot of the information
on our rolling appeared and cameup and they're like okay.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, he's definitely our guy and so again, he was
tried and he was convicted,found guilty and, like we said,
he actually did die in 1997 forthese killings.
But you know the story is howquickly it came to be.
I could totally see whereScream kind of came from, that
(35:43):
which you know, a lot of bodiesdropping in a very small amount
of time, the media attention,because there was, you know,
that whole media portion of itas well.
You can kind of see the Notshadows but like the echoes of
that crime in Scream.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
The pace matches the intensity of the pacing of
what's happening in real life.
I feel too.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, and it's again that whole idea that horror
films have about co-eds.
Right, like you have a bunch ofyoung pretty people in a very
small space and you know it'sperfect for kind of like a Like,
what do you, how do you want tosay it?
The fishing bowl.
(36:29):
So which kind of is always thething that happens in horror
films as well.
Right, you have like thecollege campuses or the
sororities or things like that.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
He also told Cindy at one point yeah, I want to head
down to Gainesville.
You know University of Florida,they have like the cute girls
there I can watch, right, right.
And then it's creepy just toknow that he was in a tent in
the forest in the back of theuniversity.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I mean the whole thing is Creepy
as hell, creepy as hell, creepyas hell.
And the guy was a monster andgross and happy he's not walking
amongst us on this planet.
But then we can now go on tothe next two creepers who saw
Scream, thought it wasabsolutely amazing and decided
(37:23):
to essentially do the same thingto get some notoriety.
And, of course, again goingback to that quote that Kevin
Williamson made for the entiremovie, that the movies just make
killers more creative.
They don't create the killer,and I find it interesting for
(37:45):
this.
So we're talking about the caseof Cassie Jo Stoddart, who was
a 16 year old, who was murderedby her classmate, tori Adamczyk
and Brian Draper on September22nd 2006.
Now when you look these guys up, they are literally children,
(38:05):
like it's 16 going on 12.
And you know it's when I wasreading through this case.
They had a kill list for abunch of their classmates and I
kind of wonder if they decidedlike it was from the screen
movie, but they seem kind oflike the shooters, like this is
(38:32):
what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
This is the closest we could come to a taste of what
it might have been like tointerrogate and convict the
Columbine shooters.
Have they not killed himself?
I just got that same feelinglike oh.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, like they have the same ideas to, you know, be
relcasts and have you know, havenotoriety, and so even that
they use scream as like, hey, weshould do this, it like it.
It felt to me like a more of awe're not dealing with like kind
(39:12):
of your typical serial killersociopath.
It was more of like, oh, we'redealing without the guns and
they just got caught on victimbecause they decided to use a
knife.
Yeah and videotape it becausethey were going to make a horror
film.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So it's like yeah, they made a whole video diary
and their plan was, yes, theywere working on a horror movie.
They actually asked the victimif she was going to be in it and
she agreed.
And you know they're both theirfavorite films and they were
avid horror fans.
(39:47):
However, they were both intothe victim, they both had
crushes on the victim and, inthe case we learned that their
friend, matt well, notnecessarily Tori's friend, but
Matt winds up being the boy whostarts dating the victim.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, so okay, and because he was there the night
that she was killed they, shewas house sitting for her aunt
and uncle and she invited herboyfriend, matt Beckham, to join
her at the house and he invitedTori Adamchik and then he
(40:28):
brought along Brian Draper andthey were keeping a death list.
But nobody knew this untilafter Cassie was there.
They hung out at that house fora couple hours and Draper had
unlocked the basement doors thathe and Adamchik could sneak
(40:49):
back in later that same evening.
And then they they left, andthen they parked down the street
, put on dark clothing, glovesand masks and they snuck back
into the residence to thebasement door While Matt and
Cassie were watching TV.
Now Cassie was trying to getMatt to stay over Lee nod, but
she can come here.
But she was like no, I feelguilty.
(41:11):
I promised my aunt and uncleI'd be watching this house, and
so she stayed behind and theylocated the circuit breaker in
the house.
They turned off all the powerin her house and came upstairs
and let's see, they had a daggerand then a hunting type knife
(41:40):
and supposedly they tried tofrighten her.
But she didn't get frightenedand then she was asleep on the
couch and that's when theyattacked, and they approximately
a stab to her 30 times, 12 ofthem for fatal.
Yeah, and they fled, and they,and again this videotape.
I mean again, these arefreaking children literally
(42:04):
filming themselves.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
However, right after they've committed, right after,
like right after you hear Briansay I can't believe I did it, I
killed.
I killed someone like oh my God, like this doesn't feel real,
and so I was like oh my God,dude, and it's just like they're
they're kids and this is onYouTube, by the way, too.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
So if you find, if you look up murder of Cassie Joe
Stoddart, the tape is actuallyon YouTube that you can watch.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
They tried to, along with a lot of evidence.
They tried to burn some itemsand that was one of the items
that they tried to burn in thisTroy.
But when cops showed up andthey found a lot of evidence and
footprints, they found the tapeand they were able to recover
everything, everything that wason that tape.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
So, props to technology Right, exactly, and,
of course, because these arekids and they're fucking idiots
being monsters and children.
They, of course, were the lastpeople to see her live for her
boyfriend, matt, so they wereimmediately interrogated, like
literally the next day, and it'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
their interrogation is just so interesting to watch
how they just go from makingthey're on the same page telling
these lies and then it justevery lie at every turn just
start.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
It's kind of masterful how the interrogator
is just get them to break downyou know right, right, exactly,
and of course I believe it wasBrian Draper was the one who
cracked and he led the police toa stash of evidence he'd buried
in the Black Rock Canyon areaand that included two dagger
(43:46):
style knives, a silver and blackhandled knife and a folding
knife, red and white mask latextape, which contain the footage
essentially explicitly planningthe the murder, and that also
included the footage of themreacting after the murder was
done.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Now, ryan, claimed hey, tori was the one who
stabbed her.
I was just there, I dropped theknife.
I didn't want to do anything.
But he was not dead, bro, she'snot dead.
You got to do it and I want to,so I stabbed her leg.
He was like man, you can't,that's not going to do anything.
But that's when he claims hestabbed her chest.
He felt a tremendous amount ofpressure from the Tori.
(44:25):
But going back to this sort ofbizarre love triangle which is
kind of what it was, at the endof the day, matt didn't ever
really get along with Tori, butwas buddies with Brian and both
Ryan was on the cusp of askingAl Cassie, apparently for a
(44:50):
couple of years or somethinglike this.
Tori really had affection.
He really was drawn to Cassietoo and wanted to grow out with
her.
So then, when Matt comes in, Ithink this is like what starts
that fire and that just sort oflet's, let's kill these people.
That's just my guess, but I dosense that there was, through
(45:12):
the interrogation videos youwatched, there's jealousy.
I mean, tori even admits that.
You know he's all right.
I just don't like him, you knowright.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, no.
So I mean, yeah, I don't evenknow what to say.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, so it's just so gross.
And so yeah, I mean, ultimatelythey're right.
Both of them get one count offirst degree murder as well.
Tori gets conspiracy, but not.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Well, they I don't I mean.
My research was that they BrianDraper was found first degree
murder and conspiracy to commitmurder on April 17, 2007.
And then a Tory Adamczyk wasconvicted of the same charges on
June 8, 2007.
So they were both convicted offirst degree murder and
(46:05):
conspiracy to commit murderbecause, again on that tape they
showed the conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I was on this.
I was on the impression thatBrian, they found out wasn't
involved in the conspiracy andthat it all came from Tory.
So he got the added 30 years tolife without parole.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Um, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I may be, you know, I may be wrong here.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, I found that they both are received.
Life is in prison.
I mean they should, For paroleplus.
The evidence is there for theconspiracy?
Yeah, and they're at the Idahostate correctional facility.
They have, uh, had appeals in2010, 2011, and both of their
appeals were denied, so they'restill sitting in jail, um.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Interesting to note that during the second
interrogation of Tory, hisparents are in the room and
whenever they're left alone, thefather is just like come on,
we're going to love you nomatter what.
Like, just tell everything thatyou know.
So both kids just consistentlylie, they just lie after lie,
(47:13):
and the interrogators had somuch evidence, uh, and they just
sat there knowing that theywere uh fibbing like the entire
time.
But it was sweet, because thenthey would repeat their
questions and the stories wouldchange.
Of course, right, yeah, I wasthe one that said, yeah, this is
all Tory.
And then Tory is shocked Look,you can get yourself the
(47:34):
attorney just requested.
But we want to let you knowBrian just confessed and you
know he's saying that uh it wasall you yeah Right.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So, because they're dipshits, they of course turn on
each other and again, it's justwith that kill list.
It just makes me think it'slike, oh, it's just another
bunch of losers, um, with thisidea of killing their classmates
because they want to be knownand they, they want their names
out there.
So, um, that was the two casesfor scream.
And then scream itself.
(48:04):
Um, you know, box office Likeit.
It put teen horror films backon the map.
Yeah, it was, uh, it's still ahugely popular film.
It's a film franchise.
Um, and you know, you can stilllike it hailed that whole that.
(48:28):
I know what you did last summer.
There was a awesome streak.
There was like a bunch of those.
I know what you did last summer.
There was three of them with,like, um, some actors.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, exactly Uh.
But then I also feel like that,uh, the rebirth of those
slasher films uh then continuestoday with like, but it's like
really ultra violent.
You know you have Rob Zombieand uh some other folks uh
making really like like ultragraphic, uh violent slasher
(49:01):
films.
In other words, like it'sthere's always, I feel like it
comes in waves.
You know from like, uh, youknow last man on earth or M
right yeah To uh, you know dawnof the dead, I mean uh, night of
living dead, and then you knowyou start getting these.
(49:21):
Uh, I mean really ourgeneration got like some of the
late seventies, early eightiesslasher films when there were
still big box office hits.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I remember watching that night
around Elm Street when I was 10in 1985, it was 1985 that I came
out.
I remember watching that andbeing horrified, like it was so
scary.
But you know, again, I didn't.
I didn't see Halloween.
I mean I saw, I remember seeingJason, but I didn't see.
And Halloween is one of my like, I'll be watching it this
(49:52):
weekend.
I watch it every Halloween.
Um, I guess I feel like it'sthe, it's the, it's the original
one, which is like it's so, um,classic and scary.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Um, for me it's, you know, one of the earliest horror
films.
I remember saying was, at areally stupid early age, uh,
Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Oh, that's a crazy one.
That's such an interesting filmBecause it's not that bloody.
Like most people don't realizethat there isn't that kind of
horror.
But it's not like it's.
It's it's the anticipation of,and the horror of, like leather
face.
It's.
(50:34):
It's kind of fascinating towatch because, like I remember
seeing Saw for the first timeand saw also is not that gory
Like most people do three, fourand five are all about the
torture porn.
But the first one wasn't, itwas psychological for in a box.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Essentially it's interesting, because that's how
it's interesting, how audiencescan take what they see right In
a movie and just kind ofinterpret like all the things
that weren't there but like mayhave been, you know, in their
eyes, sort of thing happened.
Yeah, the omen and the exorcistTo me, you're, you're a
Halloween is, is my exorcist?
Like I'll watch, have you?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
heard the exorcist three.
Like, have you watched theexorcist three?
I have a very uh like thiswoman who I absolutely love, her
taste in film and she said thatthe exorcist three scared her
more than any movie has everscared her before.
And I don't think I rememberwatching the exorcist three, for
me that's.
I don't know if you saw the,the changeling and remember that
(51:37):
goes Of course that's right andstuff.
There's the cry.
If any of you have notchangeling, go watch the
changeling this weekend.
It's such a fantastic Go.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
The original Cause.
I think they remade itUnfortunately.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Oh, really, yeah, find the original one from like
1929 or 1981.
It is still good and so creepythat, like, your house is going
to be just the nightmare.
It is like every creek.
You're like, oh my God, what isit?
Yeah, oh, it's scary.
Um, so, yeah, so you're, soyou're.
What are you going to bewatching this weekend?
(52:14):
Are you going to have any?
Um, halloween.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well, yeah, because it's funny, because I did start
exorcist three actually, youknow Dorsey Scott's in it oh my
God, this is like prior to that.
So I rewatched the first one,which I just closed my mind, and
then I watched the second one,which is kind of a she's like a
little older now.
Yeah, you know, fun is aninteresting start, but, um, I
(52:40):
don't know like I feel likethere's so much to watch on
Halloween that I'll probablywatch the exorcist three or you
know, it's really, you know,considering psycho two better
than the first psycho.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Oh, that's interesting.
Well, you know, because psychoone, it's kind of like the
shining.
I did, yes, shining until, butthat at that point every horror
movie had already borrowed allof those images from that film.
So it was almost like two metafor somebody watching the
(53:15):
shining for the first time,because you're like, oh, I've
seen this, oh, I've seen this,oh, I've seen the video that
uses the twins.
As this becomes like it's, youcan't have that experience of
watching it for the first timebecause it's Like the jokes and
the memes and everything likethat.
Or hey, I'm Jack, you know,like him going through the door
(53:38):
and like it doesn't have thatsame punch.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
I think I'll watch that again though I just I love
the shining shining, I really do.
I've always been curious to seethe 1997 version that Stephen
King got behind and was likethis is how I really wanted the
movie to go.
You ever see that one I.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Oh, um, I think it might have been made for TV you
know, oh yeah, um, I haven't.
I think I think for thisweekend I'm going to try to
watch the X3 and then do mytypical Halloween.
Yeah, so Jamie Lee Curtis islike is my girl?
She's the last.
She's like the one who createdthe last girl standing, like
she's just chronic.
I absolutely love everythingshe does.
(54:20):
So I was so happy that shefinally won the Oscar for doing
Cause.
I'm a genre girl totally Like Ijust that's like that's my jam.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Yeah, I mean she, uh, she's broken her ass.
Like so long she's been in.
So think of her career, she'sbeen in so many movies.
Uh, I was just so excited alsothat she finally got it.
But Halloween, I mean she alsoplays it.
Well, see, that's the funnything is, in a lot of these
horror movies I think we forgethow good the acting is.
Like Anthony Perkins killspsycho, like he's just so.
(54:56):
Oh my God, I mean, jamie LeeCurtis is amazing.
Like you believe her?
Like it's not.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, and then Anthony Perkins like just yeah,
I, I, I still love psychobecause of I don't love the
ending cause it's so obvious,but I love the idea of the um
they take.
They took a lot from Ed Gein,right, and like the whole every
serial killer had a mother whoshamed him.
(55:24):
So it's like that perfectcombination of really bad brain
chemistry, abuse, and then amother who is abusing you and
you're just like, oh my God.
And so I thought that that wasso interesting for him to put
that into that movie.
So, even though he was acreeper as well, oh my God, just
(55:45):
the stories that have come outis Boy?
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well, you know, maybe one day Also.
The interesting thing is it'slike now there's such an influx
of horror, right Um, that I it'shard to like.
A lot of it looks really goodand I just can't.
I can never decide what towatch.
So then I just jump back to theclassics.
Like I'll watch the Omen, youknow what I mean.
Like I'll just watch.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yeah, which is like the creepy kid I mean.
Again, I'm pretty muchconvinced that, like my first
movie, the Christmas romance, ora horror film, because it's so
easy to like break in with ahorror film because of the fact
that you know you, um, it'scheap and easy and if you can do
it really well, there's so muchmoney in it because people love
to be scared.
Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yes, Um or be.
It's also a great springboard.
You know, if you do a greathorror film, then you can jump
into the films that you reallywant to do.
That's what's so cool.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Right, exactly which I mean.
I'm a you know my favorite, soI'm like definitely in the like
sci-fi.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
God, that is a great is Blade Runner.
I've seen it 200 times, butanyway, thank you.
Wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
I have to point something out, because if that's
what it's listening, okay.
So the way that Darrell Hannadies in Blade Runner, it's
replicated.
She does the exact same deathscene in Kill Bill.
Speaker 2 (57:07):
Oh, with the um last and like spazzing out I, I, I'm
going to have to recheck thatagain.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
I I've only seen Kill Bill once.
So oh that's yeah, it's a nicelittle Easter egg, but, yeah,
happy Halloween folks.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
Happy Halloween everybody.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
And uh, so next time you folks watch scream.
Now you know.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
Now you know where it all comes from.
And again, if you want to watchsome creepy children be
murderous, Fox on YouTube.
Because, again, youtube has allthe horrors and apparently it
has the horror of these boystalking about killing their
friend who they had a crush on.
So it was probably this wholeincel thing again, which again
(57:51):
like it's because they actuallymentioned uh DiBold and uh Clebe
, whatever the Clebe, cleboldand whichever.
I think I'm getting their nameswrong.
The Columbine people um, theyactually do Again, just a bunch
of creepers with no imagination,killing a girl that they really
(58:11):
liked and instead datedsomebody else.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
I mean really those Columbine guys also made their
own movies, right, so of coursethey did.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
They wanted to be relevant, they wanted to be
somebody because deep insidethey knew there were nobody.
But that's like the incel thingtoo right.
Like the incels, like everybody, they deserve to be known
because they're just God'swalking the times.
A hundred, yeah, good times,good times.
Anyway, happy Halloweeneverybody.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
Happy Halloween.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
No, no, no with witches and goblins and, uh, and
monsters and not apples withrazors in them.
Yeah, exactly, watch your candy,All right.
Bye everybody.
This episode was sponsored bythe Creek Killer Book one in the
(59:11):
Harriet Harper thriller serieswritten by me, dominica Best.
What would you do if you read?
The police found your body in acreek?
Find out in the Creek Killeravailable on Amazon.
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
It helps other listeners findthis podcast.
(59:32):
Follow.
Dominica Best presents thedeviant mind wherever you listen
to your podcasts, the beststorytelling networkcom where
you'll find show notes, my books, links to social media and much
more.
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(59:58):
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