July 12, 2023 • 44 mins
Ever wondered what could drive a man like Paul Michael Stephani, dubbed the Weepy Voiced Killer, to unleash a reign of terror that began on New Year's Day 1981? Join us, Dominika and Chris, as we peel back the layers of this chilling tale. We begin with the attack on his first victim, Karen Potak, and the unnerving 911 call that gave Stephani his infamous moniker. Two of his victims were lucky enough to survive, one owing her survival to the frigid Minneapolis winter and her will to live.
Hosted by Dominika Best and Christopher Gordon.
Visit thebeststorytellingnetwork.com where you’ll find show notes, my books, links to sources for this episode, social media and much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey everybody, welcome back to The Deviant Mind
.
This is Dominica.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And this is Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And we are doing the Weepy Voiced Killer today Paul
Michael, stepani or Stefani Andwe're going back in time to he
started.
actually, he attacked his firstvictim on New Year's Day 1980.
What was?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
it 81?
They found the body.
I think, yeah, it's New Year's.
Yeah, New Year's Eve commits it, and then they find the body on
.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
New Year's Day And then they find it in 1981, like
the first day of 1981.
So, and you know, what wasinteresting is about this case
is that two of his attack he'sactually survived and he did
kill three women that we will goover and talk about, and the
first person he attackedactually survived in.
(01:31):
I mean, i guess it was luckythat she was in Minneapolis in
the wintertime, because I thinkthat was what saved her life.
So I guess we can start.
But you know, actually, beforewe hopped on this call, it has
come out that, chris, youactually texted me about the
(01:51):
drug dealer in the murder.
She wrote Killer Wife, whowrote the book about her husband
dying, and she's actually ontrial for murder.
I believe her name is KariNorans.
Is that Newlands?
Did I get her name right?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I forget.
This title will be a brief bookfor children.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, so that case is going through the courts and it
just came out that she actuallywould purchase the fentanyl
from her housekeeper.
The housekeeper that she wasusing for her investment
properties was, in fact, thedrug dealer and she had a drug
(02:35):
dealer conviction, i guess three, four years ago.
Yeah, and yeah So, which iskind of crazy.
I was like wow, didn't see thatcoming Here.
I am thinking like it's a fullon the kind of drug dealer you
always think about and not like50 something.
(02:55):
Corey Richens, that's her name.
That was our case from a longago that she is actually.
Her name is Carmen Marie Lauber.
She's 51 and she sold CoreyRichens 15 to 30 fentanyl pills
on two separate occasions forabout $900 each time And I guess
(03:17):
she had a pretty big enterprisegoing.
And yeah, 50 year oldhousekeeper as the drug dealer
Didn't see that one coming.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Especially after she says that she got the drugs from
a guy.
Yeah, she knew and she claimedit was like for her real estate
perspective buyers.
One of them has like backissues, do you have anything?
Anyways, the whole time she'ssaying that she's getting it
from a guy and this comes outand she's like whoa, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And this housekeeper actually in 2021, was convicted
of drug possession with intentto distribute a first degree
felony.
So I guess, and that case gotsent to drug court.
So yeah, fascinating.
It's just interesting to seewho is doing the drug dealing
(04:14):
and supply and over on that case.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
She's trying to poison her husband.
Maybe that's one of theprerequisites to being their
housekeeper?
Yeah, exactly Right.
If you have access to poisonand drugs, great.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, you got the job You're hired.
Okay, well, back to our casefor this week.
Paul Michael, stefan, do youknow if it's Stefani or Stefani?
It's probably Stefani, stefani,stefani.
So his first victim was 20 yearold Karen Potak, who was a
(04:50):
University of Stevens Pointstudent.
Now I actually looked, triedlooking into her, but I couldn't
really find that much about her, like I couldn't pretty much
find anything.
Did you find out any of herkind of before this attack,
anything about her life?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I know that she was 20 years old at the time and he
was 36.
She was walking home This is inSt Paul, minnesota And from
what I understand, she was agood student.
I mean, she was a collegestudent, and that's about all I
(05:35):
found out.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, i also had a lot of trouble finding out
exactly about her And then alsoafter she survived, like where
she went and she just kind ofkept her life out of the
newspapers for pretty much afterthis.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
But in any case, She's being so bad that her
memory is just pretty much gone,right Nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, she is still dealing with brain damage.
So essentially, she was walkinghome from a nightclub where she
was with her friends atapproximately one AM on New
Year's Day So really it's night,but New Year's Eve flash day
And she was walking down thestreet near Pierce Butler Road
and Syndicate Avenue And she wasattacked by a man with a tire
(06:24):
iron and she was alive when heleft her.
And again, it's St Paul,minneapolis, so it's very cold,
oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I'm sorry, Minneapolis, Minnesota, I said
St Paul Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, i think St Paul , Minneapolis I mean, isn't that
all in Minnesota?
no-transcript.
Minneapolis is an estate.
Minnesota is an estate.
Oh yes, now we're like.
Now we just show how good weare at geography.
Cool, cool, you are nice ingeography.
Oh, exactly, so, as we are.
(07:07):
We got the actual 911 callsthat Paul Michael Stefani left
And he this was the first onethat came in at around 3am And
he was doing his Weeby voicewith emotion And this is the one
that we started this episodewith And he directed the police
(07:29):
to the crime scene saying quotethere's a girl hurt there.
And when they arrived she wasstill alive and she was rushed
to the hospital, but she wasleft without memory and she did
have brain damage subsequentlythat she had to deal with, but
(07:49):
she actually When the copsshowed up the actions.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Her brains are exposed.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah.
So I mean she survived, butdefinitely, definitely with some
brain damage.
So he took a bit of a break andhis next attack happened on
June 3rd 1981.
And it was an 18 year old girlnamed Kimberly Compton, and this
(08:16):
time he made sure that she wasdead.
She was stabbed to death withan ice pick I believe I read
somewhere like over 30 times Andshe was also then strangled
with a shoelace.
Yes, and when her body wasdiscovered by a group of teenage
boys in the woods near, i guess, superior and Anyada Streets
(08:44):
And I believe they found hernaked, which must have been
horrifying- Well, so she'sdiscovered.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So he goes five months, that's the, he kills
Karen.
Then five months later He killsKimberly Compton.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, he tried.
It's like attempted murder.
Karen survived, but yeah, buthe attacked.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Karen Right, a big part.
And then it's actually boysplaying ball who find Compton in
bushes.
She has no ID but a key to abus station locker, and when
they go to the bus station,that's where they find her ID
and they're able to identify her.
She was actually stabbed 61times With the ice pick.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Correct, okay, which seems pretty.
I mean yeah, yeah.
They made sure she was dead.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And then again, two days later he makes another call
, and this is when they tracethe call to a phone booth at a
gas station.
But they check for fingerprintsand they're examining the wrong
payphone, because there areactually two payphones at this
location.
So that was interesting.
(10:07):
And I believe in this secondcall he takes credit and
mentions his first victim byname.
Or maybe that comes later whenhe mentions Compton, but either
way, these are taunting calls.
Yeah, it's guilt-ridden everycall.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right, i believe the quote for the second call is God
damn, will you find me?
I just stabbed somebody with anice pick.
I can't stop myself.
I keep killing somebody as he'scrying And then he calls back
and says I'll try not to killanyone else.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Which is What's interesting also is that the 911
operator at the time recognizedhis voice from five months
earlier.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
She's like oh, this guy again Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Right, and then it's at that time that the police
come out and tell the media thatthere's a serial killer, and
then on television they tell themedia this.
So then all the media outletscan play the 911 calls to see if
anyone out there watching canrecognize the voice somehow.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Right, and but they don't get any clues as far as
that, because, as we'll go intolater, his voice actually
changes when he's under stress,which is actually also the way
he gets caught, which isfascinating.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Also.
Another interesting tidbit isthis first two victims are both
in red.
So when the police go to themedia, people are well.
Women are warned not to wearred, which we'll come to again
later.
There's a specific reason whyhe's choosing red.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right, which, again, like I mean, just kind of
fascinating to hear like oh okay, women don't wear red, versus
we got to find this guy, butanyway, just something that
stuck out to me.
Then he managed to keep it,keep it together through July.
However, he attacked his thirdwoman on the 5th of August 19.
(12:15):
Oh no, i'm sorry, he waited for.
He managed to wait for a yearAnd he attacked his next woman
in 1982, on the 5th of August,and she was 40 year old, barbara
Simons, and she was alsostabbed to death with an ice
pick and her body was discoveredalong the Mississippi River
(12:37):
near the 29th Street, and wasdiscovered by a newspaper
carrier.
But what I find interesting is,well, he called the police again
And this was, i think, youmentioned the line please don't
talk, just listen.
I'm sorry.
I killed that girl which, bythe way, 40 year old, is not a
(12:59):
girl, but that's something youknow, something interesting.
I stabbed her 40 times.
Kimberly Compton was the firstone over in St Paul.
Yeah, so he connects himself toKimberly And of course, with
Kimberly, he connected himselfto Karen, which sounds like he's
(13:22):
a bit of a media whore too,right.
Like yeah, I am doing all ofthese.
And Barbara had been at a localbar And she had decided to give
a guy a lift home who peopledescribed as 40 years old, six
feet tall and around 185 pounds,And so the police thought that
(13:44):
the person she had said she'dgive a ride home to was most
likely the person who killed her.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Incidentally, they were dancing at the bar.
They actually got along And heoffered her a ride home, to
which she leans over and tellsthe bartender, i'm getting a
ride home.
I hope this guy is cool.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Oh, so she didn't give him a ride home.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
He gave her a ride home, i see, Yeah, he gives her
a ride home, and the bartendergave a description of Paul, who
we'd be killer, and thebartender, i believe, also was
able to pick out Paul fromphotos.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
That's interesting, okay, so he was able to actually
pick him up out of a lineup.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And then Barbara's purse was found in a mailbox And
that's when they were able toidentify her as Barbara Simon,
who worked as a nurse in St Paul.
Also, what's interesting is in1982, actually, i'm sorry, in
1981, late August, there was anAlan Lopez who says that he's
(14:52):
responsible for killing KimberlyCompton.
So all these red flags go upAnd they rush over to his house,
swat team full gear ready to gobecause he's holding his family
hostage.
This Alan Lopez, okay.
The one who's confessing to theKimberly Compton.
The standoff ends, swat answersand they find that he's
(15:15):
actually killed his family In1982, he's in jail and commits
suicide.
So for a while that was a hugered herring because people are
like well, did he?
But then they compared hisvoice to the calls and they're
like there's something off.
We don't know, We don't thinkit's him.
But for a while this wasmystifying everyone.
Like he claims he did this, hemurdered his family and now he
(15:39):
commits suicide.
So that was a really weirdthing that threw everyone off.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Right, because they assumed that they had gotten the
guy.
and then when he commitssuicide and there was more
murder happening, then they'relike, oh wait a minute, he
wasn't the guy.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, and I think actually I skipped over Kathleen
Greening, which she was foundin her home.
She was, let me see.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
This was his actual.
this was his first killing thatno one knew about And actually
went cold.
This was a cold case.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
She was found in her home, because she actually
wasn't stabbed, she was drownedin her own bathtub.
And this was on July 21st 1982,so a couple of weeks before
Barbara Simmons Simons, orSimmons Simon Simon Simon.
(16:51):
So Kathy, as she was known, wasKathy Greening, by the way,
yeah, kathy Greening.
She was again, as we said,found that at her home and he
actually confessed to drowningher in the bathtub.
So, as you said, they assumedthat it was just a cold case.
(17:15):
And did they ever, did he eversay how they were connected?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So, yeah, this was.
What was interesting was thathe didn't know her name, or he
claims he didn't know her name.
No one really knew about this.
It went cold.
Her husband was actually asuspect at the time and she was
a school teacher.
And what's interesting isperhaps her relationship wasn't
(17:43):
going well, but their connectionis that she goes on a date with
Paul And he saw and hung outwith her a few times and you
really liked her, and then, idon't know why, we don't know
why, but he chokes her anddrowns her in her own bathtub.
I see, okay, so we find outthat this was really one of the
(18:08):
murders that he was most ashamedof.
I think it's because he hadthis interaction in this
personal relationship, thatthere was close and that this is
someone he was close with.
You know his other victims.
He didn't know, but he knew her.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Right, well, yeah, exactly, and it's interesting
that the victims changed, whereboth Karen and Kimberly were
18-year-old students, whereasKathleen and Barbara were in
middle-aged right.
And then he goes back, which iskind of how he ends up getting
(18:46):
captured, is?
he attacks a 19-year-old sexworker named Denise Williams on
August 21st 1982.
So it's interesting.
It's like he was able to keepit together for a year and then
the victims in 1982 came in veryfast, short order, right, like.
(19:07):
So it almost feels like afrenzy, because he killed two
women and attacked a thirdwithin, like what?
three weeks.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I think that's also because that may be, you know,
with the whole Lopez incident,like him being like no, no, no,
no, it wasn't him.
Watch this.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Watch this yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, because the killing occurs in the same month
that Lopez is on trial and goesto jail, so it's an August.
So I think when he's like I didit, and then there's another
one that's to prove something.
Also, what's interesting isthat in Kathy's contact book his
number was in it, so that's ofno.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
In the last one They really did have a, so they did
have a friendship relationship.
That's going on then.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
For sure.
And then also what'sinteresting is that again we
have a case where he puts herpurse in a mailbox.
And another thing that wasinteresting about her death at
the time and why it went coldwas because they didn't actually
know if it was an accident ornot, You know, if she slipped
and accidentally drowned in thetub or whatever.
That's a really difficult termin homicide versus accidents.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Right, right, accidental.
So, as we mentioned before,this is kind of how his last
victim that he attacks and thisis how he ends up getting caught
is a 19 year old, deniseWilliams.
As we mentioned, she was a sexworker from Minneapolis and she
was working the streets when shewas approached by this man And
(20:45):
they worked out a price for herservices.
She hopped into his car and hedrove her to a dead end road and
she was like uh-oh, something'sgoing to happen here.
This is not good.
And before she was able to getout of the car, he lunged at her
with a screwdriver and stabbedher a total of 15 times as she
(21:08):
was trapped underneath him inthe passenger seat.
She found, noticed a glassbottle sitting in the foot.
Well, and she managed to pickit up, smashed it across the
face of him and then fled fromthe car And she was able to
survive this.
But he was actually really hurt, and so he went back to his
(21:35):
apartment and said I think I gotto get medical attention
because I have this massivewound on my face.
So he called the St Paul FireDepartment asking for help.
And again he's calling 911 andthe department's like wait a
minute, this guy sounds prettysimilar to our weepy voice
(21:56):
killer And so he was identified.
Of course, because 911identifies.
You asked 37 year old PaulMichael Stefani And he
essentially they, even thoughthat he had vocal similarities.
He didn't have as high pitchedvoice as the 911 recordings But
(22:19):
when the detectives brought himin for questioning and he got
stressed out, his voice went upseveral octaves And they're like
oh, this is our guy.
And what was interesting isthat when he went to trial he
was only found guilty of themurder of Barbara Simons.
But because they didn't haveenough evidence they couldn't
(22:40):
convict him of the other murders.
But in 1997, he confessed tothe murder of Kim Compton as
well as to the murders ofBarbara Simons and Kathy
Greening, and that's when youhad mentioned that he had
actually brought her name andthey didn't know that he was
connected because he claimed hewas motivated to confess because
(23:03):
he found out he had cancer Andhe ended up dying of cancer, of
that cancer in prison on June 12, 1998.
So if he hadn't confessed thenthey would have never really put
him together with the murder ofKathy Greening.
That was interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
To back up with regards to the new Swains,
august 21st 1982, when she takesoff, there's actually a
bystander and this fella triesto intervene and actually all
goes after him and then runsaway.
Yeah, and then that's whenthere's a bit of a fight to fail
(23:51):
the attack, but he, this guy,it's like she saves herself and
then this guy comes out ofnowhere for reinforcement and
that's what basically drivesPaul away.
We don't know, paul may havecontinued to go after her, but
luckily this person was thereand she winds up being a hero.
She's able to pick him out ofphotos And then, when you
mentioned they recognized hiscall because he was like oh, i'm
(24:14):
hurt, i need to handle this.
They put a surveillance on himand they're actually tracking
him the whole time, but he slipsout and when they have their
opportunity, that's when theyjust go in and bust him And yeah
, he gets.
Yeah, he's never tried it, asyou said, for the St Paul crimes
(24:34):
.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
But he does go down, for you know attack.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
That's a great attempt at murder.
Yeah, so that's maybe years inprison that he gets for that.
And what's interesting is thatduring the St Paul cases the
judge throws the 911 calls outsaying that they're not relevant
to the case and that hebelieves there's no connection
(25:02):
to Karen and Kimberly.
That's according to the judge.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, so, but in 84 and 85, during that trial he
pleads not guilty.
For the calls are played andhis sister and ex-wife yes, he
was married.
They recognized his voice tooand they helped him get locked
up.
And then he had 12 years intohis sentence He'd find out he
(25:29):
has skin cancer, admitted to theSt Paul crimes And basically he
wants credit before he dies.
You know, i think that'sultimately what drives him to
his confession.
Also, to back up, he comes from, he's born in 1970 and oh no,
(25:50):
i'm sorry, i beg your pardon Hisparents.
Let me back this.
That's when he gets married Andhe grows up and his parents get
the worst And he has, oh, i'msorry.
He's born in Minneapolis,minnesota, minnesota, in 1944.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Wisconsin, Minnesota thing.
That's getting us kind ofconfused here.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Parents get divorced and he has a very strict
Catholic stepfather and he has avery strong bond with his mom.
But he's going to church nowHe's starting to go to church a
lot with the stepdad and hasepilepsy And due to his epilepsy
it actually over time causeshim to lose many jobs that he's
(26:47):
trying to hold down.
And in 1970, he does getsmarried but then five years
later gets a divorce And thisreally angers him because it's
against Catholicism, right.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Right, right, he can't get a divorce.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right, and so that's when he actually he has an
assault.
He assaults someone shortlyafter the divorce.
Now, i don't it was unclearwhether or not it was his
ex-wife or if it was some randomvictim, But after the divorce
he's starting to show, you know,all this anger and everything's
manifesting.
(27:26):
And then he later dates aSyrian girl for four years and
things are looking great.
This is like it.
You know he's, he's found love,they're together, but then she
has to leave him because she'spart of an arranged marriage, so
she actually has to leave theUnited States and he's crushed.
(27:49):
And photos of him with theSyrian woman she's mostly
wearing red dresses.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So that's where the red connection comes in.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yes, which is pretty interesting, I see.
And then so she, she leaves, heloses another job And basically
this is where he starts goingto town.
And then what's interestingalso is the last job he had was
at a factory which his firstvictim who survived.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
What's found right next to three years after his
firing?
So it was the Malbergmanufacturing company and he was
fired from his job in 1977.
And his first victim was foundright near there like three
years after that.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And he mentions it.
He mentions the factory by namein that call And that was
another thing that ledauthorities to connect the dots.
Oh, he's calling from thislocation.
Oh, he worked there.
So I mean, there were signs.
You know there were, but it wasjust very difficult because the
(29:03):
calls take everyone for a loop.
You know he is Catholic, somaybe he has a way of turning it
on and turning it off, but nosigns.
There was no abuse towardsanimals.
This isn't your typical, youknow, psychopathic, sociopath
(29:24):
background.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That he has.
Well, I mean, supposedly thestepfather had a proclivity for
beating the shit out of hisstepchildren.
He actually was the second of10 kids.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh, so they didn't find that out.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, at least you know per something I found, and
so you know again, and this ishe's growing up.
he was born in 1944.
So, again, my idea of, like youknow, the screwed up fathers
that were like beating the crapout of their boys in the 50s to
(30:02):
then create these monsters thatwent to kill when they were men.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, i just assumed he was this.
From what I found, he was justlike a very strict stepfather,
very strict, viable bumper.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I didn't realize, you know it was interesting, though
, if he's very strict, and againwe have to think about how
different child rearing is rightnow compared to back then.
I was actually reading a bookthat originally came out in 1980
about how to talk with yourchildren, and they kept talking
about smacking their kids in theface once the parent got too
(30:37):
angry And I was like, wait aminute, when was this?
and this is completely separatefrom this case, but it was just
like, wait a minute, when wasthis published again?
and I was like, oh, it was 1980.
And I think we forget how muchcorporal punishment was
normalized and used by familiesto keep their kids in line, and
(31:03):
so that's normal families.
So if we have a very strictCatholic stepfather all of a
sudden trying to keep 10 kids inline, i mean you got to think
that there's some massive abusegoing on there of the physical
kind, because, again, i went toCatholic school and I got my
hands hit by the nuns like itwas just a normal part of life
(31:24):
back then.
And so when we're talking aboutthe 60s and the 70s, i mean,
yeah, some dads punched theirsons in the face.
We just don't think about thatbecause it's in the two.
You'd like you'd get arrestednow.
Back then that was prettynormal.
I mean, obviously look downupon, because if your kid came
back with a black eye and it wasfrom his dad, like that, be
like oh no, but that was so muchmore normalized like violence
(31:48):
against your children versuswhat we're doing now, also in
the last case, one of the lastcases we discussed, the Susan
Smith, that whole corporalpunishment and not, comes up
again.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And there are now there are a bunch of principal,
there are a bunch ofpsychiatrists who believe that
it's actually very detrimentaland terrible to spank your
children.
So there's, now that you know,around the Susan Smith time, you
have the old generationthinking, no, this is this is
(32:22):
how you punish your kids, versusthis new thought which we
developed into, what we have, ibelieve, now.
So it's interesting, you know,it's just like it takes horrible
tragedies, i guess, in orderfor things to change.
Well, some things to change.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right.
So I mean again, i I don't.
I it was just like a line andpassing about how there was talk
of corporal punishment withthis stepfather, but again, kind
of extrapolating what thosetimes were like and knowing you
know very Catholic, very strictpeople, yeah, like I wouldn't be
(33:01):
surprised.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
And this is probably why he does face a chip close
bond with his mom.
You know they were very closeand really had a strong bond.
Maybe it was just like you know, stepdad is terrible, but this
is my mom.
She's always been here.
She's here for me or something.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Which is fascinating because usually men who kill
women tend to have issues withtheir mother Right And I wonder
if there was some way he wastrying to get the rage out on
women, especially when he startskilling the women in the 40s,
which is probably what his momwould have been like when he was
a kid And again, i'm totallylike armchair psychologist thing
(33:46):
right now.
But you know, there is a thingof like why didn't you protect
me against this person who wasnot my dad?
Like why did you allow him todo that?
And there can be a lot ofmisplaced rage towards the
mother, which you know.
Quite frankly, why didn't youprotect him?
And we don't know if the motheractually took the stepfather
(34:07):
side, like we, you know we don'tknow exactly what happened, but
like why women?
and like stabbing 30, 40 times,like that is such frenzied
overkill that It's also.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
It's also, i think, a stem is from, like, this whole
idea of desertion.
Right, he has his mom, who'smaybe deserving him in that way,
you know, and he needs herattention, needs her protection,
maybe doesn't get it Because ofmarriage, it's unsuccessful,
feels perhaps abandoned andthings didn't work out.
And that's where the angerreally starts.
Syrian woman deserts him.
(34:41):
So I think maybe it's just likethis, built to a finger, and
then it's just like oh my God,look at the women in my life.
They all leave me or theyignore me, and maybe that could
be his drive for doing this toinnocent women, you know.
No, i mean, i just want tothrow this in there with the
Barbara Simon case was with thescrew driver.
(35:03):
So he, you know, he's kind ofall over the place and ice pick
a tire, iron, a screwdriver.
There's no rhyme or reason towhat he's going to use A
shoelace I mean, it's drowning,it's well, the shoelace and the
drowning are definitely a littleseparate.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
But the I mean typically stabbing the victims
has always by profilers had saidthat that was a replacement for
sex, right, fornication.
It is very intimate, it's verysexual.
Typically the person whostabbing tends to hurt
themselves because the handslips on the blade.
(35:44):
It's like a very visceral thingof making holes in another body
.
And so maybe you're right aboutthe Syrian woman with the red
dress, but it was definitelythose type of crimes like did it
?
was he able to functionsexually?
Probably he fathered a child,but but yeah, it's, it's
(36:09):
disturbing.
And actually I pulled up a quotefrom the detectives.
It was a detective, don Brownfrom the Minneapolis PD said
that when this is a quote when Iwent over and opened up the
file case when they were tryingto get the confession out of him
, i had and this is back to thequote I had photographs of the
victims.
(36:30):
He looked up and his eyelidsstarted fluttering and I could
almost see that he wasenvisioning these homicides over
in his mind.
Yeah, and then quote, his voiceimmediately changed.
It went to a high pitch rightaway.
It struck me as the voice inthe recordings And in all my
past experiences.
Up to that point, i have neverseen any person change
personalities in front of me Andquote I knew I had him at that,
(36:53):
that's right.
I've said Yeah.
So I mean, we don't know.
Obviously there's whateverbrought him to kill these women.
He's still a piece of shit,like you know.
There's.
No, i don't want to blameanybody in his life for making
him what he was, but there are,you know.
(37:13):
Again, like what was thetrigger?
Was it the firing, as you said?
was it the voice being leftbehind, then being left behind
by his girlfriend, precipitate.
And there was another quotethat I found from him being like
I always thought that killingwas just normal, like driving a
car.
So I'm like, okay, well, ifthat was the case, then why did
you start killing at 37?
(37:34):
And did you kill before?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Right, like I just want to throw out there with
regards to you know how we focuson Beckland's Kimberly Compton
actually you know the whole busstation, locker, and this was
actually her first day in StPaul And she went there to start
(37:59):
a new life.
So that was literally her firstday in St Paul to start a new
life And when that happens Ijust want to throw that out
there.
You know this also could beCatholic guilt and the idea of
his family when he was growingup falling apart, the fact that
he couldn't have his own familyAnd the stepfather, regardless
(38:21):
of any sort of abuse that mayhave come from him, did sort of
get Paul into church, gotten himto become Catholic.
So maybe the 911 calls are hisCatholic guilt, coming out like
it's confession in a way, youknow, and if killing is like
(38:41):
driving a car to him, that leadsme to believe.
You know you have a bit ofpsychopathy, psychopathy,
psychopathy having there.
You know he's psychopathic Andthe calls the weepy is probably
he may have heard someone elseweep before because you know a
lot of psychotic, don't knowemotions, they don't know how to
(39:02):
describe emotions And a lot ofthe ways they interact with us.
They reach back from memory Allhow other people have reacted,
so they themselves may beincapable of looking sad or
sounding sad, but they have arecall.
Oh, i remember what it's likebecause you know my mom, my
brother cried, so they'llemulate that, and so that could
(39:25):
also be why he's doing theweeping, is because he feels
lousy about it And he knows thatthat's how you do it, because
you know why wouldn't you calland just be?
why call?
That's the first thing.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, like what is the?
Well, but also you know againfor the first time, i think it's
like you know.
you know again for beingomnipotent.
not omnipotent, but the otherone where he's a complete
failure in everything.
right, he gets fired from hisjob.
He has probably he's prettymuch only worked as a janitor,
(39:56):
like had very low menial jobs,and he got fired from those, and
so now it's he's doingsomething that I'm sure is
making the entire city kind offreak out.
right, he's a serial killer Andit's again this idea of wanting
the fame and, you know, beingsupposedly quote unquote smart
(40:16):
enough to play cat and mousewith the detectives.
Um, anyway, it's very patheticand really strange and pathetic.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And also, and again, those jobs lost and everything
else.
maybe this place is back up,but it's epilepsy, i mean.
maybe it was just like oh God,you know, like beaten by my
stepdad Or, since Catholicism,losing all these relationships.
it's just all kind of snowballs.
And yet another case we havesomeone that obviously needed
(40:49):
mental help.
by how do you get that mentalhelp if you don't want it or
you're ignoring it or you feeljustified?
You know, obviously, thesewomen the first victim is
wearing red Must have triggeredhim, must have triggered him in
some way, um, and he's unable tocontrol himself.
You know, um, but this isdefinitely a strange case And I
(41:11):
think it's.
you know you have, uh, this ison the heels.
I guess this is a few five orsix years removed from the son
of Sam.
you know where you have the sonof Sam.
you have Berkowitz, kind oftaunting.
you know those letters, uh, butI, you know me, the more I
think about it.
maybe it's it's, it's more ofthis confession than it is
taunting.
(41:32):
Yeah, confession, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Just like the Catholic guilt hitting really
hard.
In any case, all in all, a verypathetic man and, uh, the two
women who survived were, i mean,oh my God, i can't even imagine
Um, and lives lost becauseanother dude was a complete
loser, um, anyway, so that isthe case of the weepy voice
(41:56):
killer and, uh, we will put inthe actual 911 calls in.
and um, yeah, let us know whatyou think.
And thanks for joining us onthis summer edition of the
deviant mind, which is why we'rekind of a little bit all over
the place as far as our um, asfar as our weekly.
(42:18):
you know date and time that wecome out, but thank you so much
for sticking with us.
And uh, yeah, Tell your friends.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Tell your friends to give a listen and check out our
YouTube channel and subscribethere.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Exactly All right Till next week.
Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
This episode was sponsored by the Creek killer
book, one in the Harriet Harperthriller series written by me,
dominica best.
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(43:27):
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Forward slash the deviant mindpodcast Until next time.
Hey everybody, welcome back to The Deviant Mind
.
This is Dominica.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And this is Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And we are doing the Weepy Voiced Killer today Paul
Michael, stepani or Stefani Andwe're going back in time to he
started.
actually, he attacked his firstvictim on New Year's Day 1980.
What was?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
it 81?
They found the body.
I think, yeah, it's New Year's.
Yeah, New Year's Eve commits it, and then they find the body on
.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
New Year's Day And then they find it in 1981, like
the first day of 1981.
So, and you know, what wasinteresting is about this case
is that two of his attack he'sactually survived and he did
kill three women that we will goover and talk about, and the
first person he attackedactually survived in.
(01:31):
I mean, i guess it was luckythat she was in Minneapolis in
the wintertime, because I thinkthat was what saved her life.
So I guess we can start.
But you know, actually, beforewe hopped on this call, it has
come out that, chris, youactually texted me about the
(01:51):
drug dealer in the murder.
She wrote Killer Wife, whowrote the book about her husband
dying, and she's actually ontrial for murder.
I believe her name is KariNorans.
Is that Newlands?
Did I get her name right?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I forget.
This title will be a brief bookfor children.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, so that case is going through the courts and it
just came out that she actuallywould purchase the fentanyl
from her housekeeper.
The housekeeper that she wasusing for her investment
properties was, in fact, thedrug dealer and she had a drug
(02:35):
dealer conviction, i guess three, four years ago.
Yeah, and yeah So, which iskind of crazy.
I was like wow, didn't see thatcoming Here.
I am thinking like it's a fullon the kind of drug dealer you
always think about and not like50 something.
(02:55):
Corey Richens, that's her name.
That was our case from a longago that she is actually.
Her name is Carmen Marie Lauber.
She's 51 and she sold CoreyRichens 15 to 30 fentanyl pills
on two separate occasions forabout $900 each time And I guess
(03:17):
she had a pretty big enterprisegoing.
And yeah, 50 year oldhousekeeper as the drug dealer
Didn't see that one coming.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Especially after she says that she got the drugs from
a guy.
Yeah, she knew and she claimedit was like for her real estate
perspective buyers.
One of them has like backissues, do you have anything?
Anyways, the whole time she'ssaying that she's getting it
from a guy and this comes outand she's like whoa, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And this housekeeper actually in 2021, was convicted
of drug possession with intentto distribute a first degree
felony.
So I guess, and that case gotsent to drug court.
So yeah, fascinating.
It's just interesting to seewho is doing the drug dealing
(04:14):
and supply and over on that case.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
She's trying to poison her husband.
Maybe that's one of theprerequisites to being their
housekeeper?
Yeah, exactly Right.
If you have access to poisonand drugs, great.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, you got the job You're hired.
Okay, well, back to our casefor this week.
Paul Michael, stefan, do youknow if it's Stefani or Stefani?
It's probably Stefani, stefani,stefani.
So his first victim was 20 yearold Karen Potak, who was a
(04:50):
University of Stevens Pointstudent.
Now I actually looked, triedlooking into her, but I couldn't
really find that much about her, like I couldn't pretty much
find anything.
Did you find out any of herkind of before this attack,
anything about her life?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I know that she was 20 years old at the time and he
was 36.
She was walking home This is inSt Paul, minnesota And from
what I understand, she was agood student.
I mean, she was a collegestudent, and that's about all I
(05:35):
found out.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, i also had a lot of trouble finding out
exactly about her And then alsoafter she survived, like where
she went and she just kind ofkept her life out of the
newspapers for pretty much afterthis.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
But in any case, She's being so bad that her
memory is just pretty much gone,right Nothing.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, she is still dealing with brain damage.
So essentially, she was walkinghome from a nightclub where she
was with her friends atapproximately one AM on New
Year's Day So really it's night,but New Year's Eve flash day
And she was walking down thestreet near Pierce Butler Road
and Syndicate Avenue And she wasattacked by a man with a tire
(06:24):
iron and she was alive when heleft her.
And again, it's St Paul,minneapolis, so it's very cold,
oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I'm sorry, Minneapolis, Minnesota, I said
St Paul Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, i think St Paul , Minneapolis I mean, isn't that
all in Minnesota?
no-transcript.
Minneapolis is an estate.
Minnesota is an estate.
Oh yes, now we're like.
Now we just show how good weare at geography.
Cool, cool, you are nice ingeography.
Oh, exactly, so, as we are.
(07:07):
We got the actual 911 callsthat Paul Michael Stefani left
And he this was the first onethat came in at around 3am And
he was doing his Weeby voicewith emotion And this is the one
that we started this episodewith And he directed the police
(07:29):
to the crime scene saying quotethere's a girl hurt there.
And when they arrived she wasstill alive and she was rushed
to the hospital, but she wasleft without memory and she did
have brain damage subsequentlythat she had to deal with, but
(07:49):
she actually When the copsshowed up the actions.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Her brains are exposed.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah.
So I mean she survived, butdefinitely, definitely with some
brain damage.
So he took a bit of a break andhis next attack happened on
June 3rd 1981.
And it was an 18 year old girlnamed Kimberly Compton, and this
(08:16):
time he made sure that she wasdead.
She was stabbed to death withan ice pick I believe I read
somewhere like over 30 times Andshe was also then strangled
with a shoelace.
Yes, and when her body wasdiscovered by a group of teenage
boys in the woods near, i guess, superior and Anyada Streets
(08:44):
And I believe they found hernaked, which must have been
horrifying- Well, so she'sdiscovered.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So he goes five months, that's the, he kills
Karen.
Then five months later He killsKimberly Compton.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, he tried.
It's like attempted murder.
Karen survived, but yeah, buthe attacked.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Karen Right, a big part.
And then it's actually boysplaying ball who find Compton in
bushes.
She has no ID but a key to abus station locker, and when
they go to the bus station,that's where they find her ID
and they're able to identify her.
She was actually stabbed 61times With the ice pick.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Correct, okay, which seems pretty.
I mean yeah, yeah.
They made sure she was dead.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And then again, two days later he makes another call
, and this is when they tracethe call to a phone booth at a
gas station.
But they check for fingerprintsand they're examining the wrong
payphone, because there areactually two payphones at this
location.
So that was interesting.
(10:07):
And I believe in this secondcall he takes credit and
mentions his first victim byname.
Or maybe that comes later whenhe mentions Compton, but either
way, these are taunting calls.
Yeah, it's guilt-ridden everycall.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right, i believe the quote for the second call is God
damn, will you find me?
I just stabbed somebody with anice pick.
I can't stop myself.
I keep killing somebody as he'scrying And then he calls back
and says I'll try not to killanyone else.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Which is What's interesting also is that the 911
operator at the time recognizedhis voice from five months
earlier.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
She's like oh, this guy again Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Right, and then it's at that time that the police
come out and tell the media thatthere's a serial killer, and
then on television they tell themedia this.
So then all the media outletscan play the 911 calls to see if
anyone out there watching canrecognize the voice somehow.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Right, and but they don't get any clues as far as
that, because, as we'll go intolater, his voice actually
changes when he's under stress,which is actually also the way
he gets caught, which isfascinating.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Also.
Another interesting tidbit isthis first two victims are both
in red.
So when the police go to themedia, people are well.
Women are warned not to wearred, which we'll come to again
later.
There's a specific reason whyhe's choosing red.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right, which, again, like I mean, just kind of
fascinating to hear like oh okay, women don't wear red, versus
we got to find this guy, butanyway, just something that
stuck out to me.
Then he managed to keep it,keep it together through July.
However, he attacked his thirdwoman on the 5th of August 19.
(12:15):
Oh no, i'm sorry, he waited for.
He managed to wait for a yearAnd he attacked his next woman
in 1982, on the 5th of August,and she was 40 year old, barbara
Simons, and she was alsostabbed to death with an ice
pick and her body was discoveredalong the Mississippi River
(12:37):
near the 29th Street, and wasdiscovered by a newspaper
carrier.
But what I find interesting is,well, he called the police again
And this was, i think, youmentioned the line please don't
talk, just listen.
I'm sorry.
I killed that girl which, bythe way, 40 year old, is not a
(12:59):
girl, but that's something youknow, something interesting.
I stabbed her 40 times.
Kimberly Compton was the firstone over in St Paul.
Yeah, so he connects himself toKimberly And of course, with
Kimberly, he connected himselfto Karen, which sounds like he's
(13:22):
a bit of a media whore too,right.
Like yeah, I am doing all ofthese.
And Barbara had been at a localbar And she had decided to give
a guy a lift home who peopledescribed as 40 years old, six
feet tall and around 185 pounds,And so the police thought that
(13:44):
the person she had said she'dgive a ride home to was most
likely the person who killed her.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Incidentally, they were dancing at the bar.
They actually got along And heoffered her a ride home, to
which she leans over and tellsthe bartender, i'm getting a
ride home.
I hope this guy is cool.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Oh, so she didn't give him a ride home.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
He gave her a ride home, i see, Yeah, he gives her
a ride home, and the bartendergave a description of Paul, who
we'd be killer, and thebartender, i believe, also was
able to pick out Paul fromphotos.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
That's interesting, okay, so he was able to actually
pick him up out of a lineup.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
And then Barbara's purse was found in a mailbox And
that's when they were able toidentify her as Barbara Simon,
who worked as a nurse in St Paul.
Also, what's interesting is in1982, actually, i'm sorry, in
1981, late August, there was anAlan Lopez who says that he's
(14:52):
responsible for killing KimberlyCompton.
So all these red flags go upAnd they rush over to his house,
swat team full gear ready to gobecause he's holding his family
hostage.
This Alan Lopez, okay.
The one who's confessing to theKimberly Compton.
The standoff ends, swat answersand they find that he's
(15:15):
actually killed his family In1982, he's in jail and commits
suicide.
So for a while that was a hugered herring because people are
like well, did he?
But then they compared hisvoice to the calls and they're
like there's something off.
We don't know, We don't thinkit's him.
But for a while this wasmystifying everyone.
Like he claims he did this, hemurdered his family and now he
(15:39):
commits suicide.
So that was a really weirdthing that threw everyone off.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Right, because they assumed that they had gotten the
guy.
and then when he commitssuicide and there was more
murder happening, then they'relike, oh wait a minute, he
wasn't the guy.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, and I think actually I skipped over Kathleen
Greening, which she was foundin her home.
She was, let me see.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
This was his actual.
this was his first killing thatno one knew about And actually
went cold.
This was a cold case.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
She was found in her home, because she actually
wasn't stabbed, she was drownedin her own bathtub.
And this was on July 21st 1982,so a couple of weeks before
Barbara Simmons Simons, orSimmons Simon Simon Simon.
(16:51):
So Kathy, as she was known, wasKathy Greening, by the way,
yeah, kathy Greening.
She was again, as we said,found that at her home and he
actually confessed to drowningher in the bathtub.
So, as you said, they assumedthat it was just a cold case.
(17:15):
And did they ever, did he eversay how they were connected?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So, yeah, this was.
What was interesting was thathe didn't know her name, or he
claims he didn't know her name.
No one really knew about this.
It went cold.
Her husband was actually asuspect at the time and she was
a school teacher.
And what's interesting isperhaps her relationship wasn't
(17:43):
going well, but their connectionis that she goes on a date with
Paul And he saw and hung outwith her a few times and you
really liked her, and then, idon't know why, we don't know
why, but he chokes her anddrowns her in her own bathtub.
I see, okay, so we find outthat this was really one of the
(18:08):
murders that he was most ashamedof.
I think it's because he hadthis interaction in this
personal relationship, thatthere was close and that this is
someone he was close with.
You know his other victims.
He didn't know, but he knew her.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Right, well, yeah, exactly, and it's interesting
that the victims changed, whereboth Karen and Kimberly were
18-year-old students, whereasKathleen and Barbara were in
middle-aged right.
And then he goes back, which iskind of how he ends up getting
(18:46):
captured, is?
he attacks a 19-year-old sexworker named Denise Williams on
August 21st 1982.
So it's interesting.
It's like he was able to keepit together for a year and then
the victims in 1982 came in veryfast, short order, right, like.
(19:07):
So it almost feels like afrenzy, because he killed two
women and attacked a thirdwithin, like what?
three weeks.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I think that's also because that may be, you know,
with the whole Lopez incident,like him being like no, no, no,
no, it wasn't him.
Watch this.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Watch this yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, because the killing occurs in the same month
that Lopez is on trial and goesto jail, so it's an August.
So I think when he's like I didit, and then there's another
one that's to prove something.
Also, what's interesting isthat in Kathy's contact book his
number was in it, so that's ofno.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
In the last one They really did have a, so they did
have a friendship relationship.
That's going on then.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
For sure.
And then also what'sinteresting is that again we
have a case where he puts herpurse in a mailbox.
And another thing that wasinteresting about her death at
the time and why it went coldwas because they didn't actually
know if it was an accident ornot, You know, if she slipped
and accidentally drowned in thetub or whatever.
That's a really difficult termin homicide versus accidents.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Right, right, accidental.
So, as we mentioned before,this is kind of how his last
victim that he attacks and thisis how he ends up getting caught
is a 19 year old, deniseWilliams.
As we mentioned, she was a sexworker from Minneapolis and she
was working the streets when shewas approached by this man And
(20:45):
they worked out a price for herservices.
She hopped into his car and hedrove her to a dead end road and
she was like uh-oh, something'sgoing to happen here.
This is not good.
And before she was able to getout of the car, he lunged at her
with a screwdriver and stabbedher a total of 15 times as she
(21:08):
was trapped underneath him inthe passenger seat.
She found, noticed a glassbottle sitting in the foot.
Well, and she managed to pickit up, smashed it across the
face of him and then fled fromthe car And she was able to
survive this.
But he was actually really hurt, and so he went back to his
(21:35):
apartment and said I think I gotto get medical attention
because I have this massivewound on my face.
So he called the St Paul FireDepartment asking for help.
And again he's calling 911 andthe department's like wait a
minute, this guy sounds prettysimilar to our weepy voice
(21:56):
killer And so he was identified.
Of course, because 911identifies.
You asked 37 year old PaulMichael Stefani And he
essentially they, even thoughthat he had vocal similarities.
He didn't have as high pitchedvoice as the 911 recordings But
(22:19):
when the detectives brought himin for questioning and he got
stressed out, his voice went upseveral octaves And they're like
oh, this is our guy.
And what was interesting isthat when he went to trial he
was only found guilty of themurder of Barbara Simons.
But because they didn't haveenough evidence they couldn't
(22:40):
convict him of the other murders.
But in 1997, he confessed tothe murder of Kim Compton as
well as to the murders ofBarbara Simons and Kathy
Greening, and that's when youhad mentioned that he had
actually brought her name andthey didn't know that he was
connected because he claimed hewas motivated to confess because
(23:03):
he found out he had cancer Andhe ended up dying of cancer, of
that cancer in prison on June 12, 1998.
So if he hadn't confessed thenthey would have never really put
him together with the murder ofKathy Greening.
That was interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
To back up with regards to the new Swains,
august 21st 1982, when she takesoff, there's actually a
bystander and this fella triesto intervene and actually all
goes after him and then runsaway.
Yeah, and then that's whenthere's a bit of a fight to fail
(23:51):
the attack, but he, this guy,it's like she saves herself and
then this guy comes out ofnowhere for reinforcement and
that's what basically drivesPaul away.
We don't know, paul may havecontinued to go after her, but
luckily this person was thereand she winds up being a hero.
She's able to pick him out ofphotos And then, when you
mentioned they recognized hiscall because he was like oh, i'm
(24:14):
hurt, i need to handle this.
They put a surveillance on himand they're actually tracking
him the whole time, but he slipsout and when they have their
opportunity, that's when theyjust go in and bust him And yeah
, he gets.
Yeah, he's never tried it, asyou said, for the St Paul crimes
(24:34):
.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
But he does go down, for you know attack.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
That's a great attempt at murder.
Yeah, so that's maybe years inprison that he gets for that.
And what's interesting is thatduring the St Paul cases the
judge throws the 911 calls outsaying that they're not relevant
to the case and that hebelieves there's no connection
(25:02):
to Karen and Kimberly.
That's according to the judge.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, so, but in 84 and 85, during that trial he
pleads not guilty.
For the calls are played andhis sister and ex-wife yes, he
was married.
They recognized his voice tooand they helped him get locked
up.
And then he had 12 years intohis sentence He'd find out he
(25:29):
has skin cancer, admitted to theSt Paul crimes And basically he
wants credit before he dies.
You know, i think that'sultimately what drives him to
his confession.
Also, to back up, he comes from, he's born in 1970 and oh no,
(25:50):
i'm sorry, i beg your pardon Hisparents.
Let me back this.
That's when he gets married Andhe grows up and his parents get
the worst And he has, oh, i'msorry.
He's born in Minneapolis,minnesota, minnesota, in 1944.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Wisconsin, Minnesota thing.
That's getting us kind ofconfused here.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Parents get divorced and he has a very strict
Catholic stepfather and he has avery strong bond with his mom.
But he's going to church nowHe's starting to go to church a
lot with the stepdad and hasepilepsy And due to his epilepsy
it actually over time causeshim to lose many jobs that he's
(26:47):
trying to hold down.
And in 1970, he does getsmarried but then five years
later gets a divorce And thisreally angers him because it's
against Catholicism, right.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Right, right, he can't get a divorce.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right, and so that's when he actually he has an
assault.
He assaults someone shortlyafter the divorce.
Now, i don't it was unclearwhether or not it was his
ex-wife or if it was some randomvictim, But after the divorce
he's starting to show, you know,all this anger and everything's
manifesting.
(27:26):
And then he later dates aSyrian girl for four years and
things are looking great.
This is like it.
You know he's, he's found love,they're together, but then she
has to leave him because she'spart of an arranged marriage, so
she actually has to leave theUnited States and he's crushed.
(27:49):
And photos of him with theSyrian woman she's mostly
wearing red dresses.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So that's where the red connection comes in.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yes, which is pretty interesting, I see.
And then so she, she leaves, heloses another job And basically
this is where he starts goingto town.
And then what's interestingalso is the last job he had was
at a factory which his firstvictim who survived.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
What's found right next to three years after his
firing?
So it was the Malbergmanufacturing company and he was
fired from his job in 1977.
And his first victim was foundright near there like three
years after that.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And he mentions it.
He mentions the factory by namein that call And that was
another thing that ledauthorities to connect the dots.
Oh, he's calling from thislocation.
Oh, he worked there.
So I mean, there were signs.
You know there were, but it wasjust very difficult because the
(29:03):
calls take everyone for a loop.
You know he is Catholic, somaybe he has a way of turning it
on and turning it off, but nosigns.
There was no abuse towardsanimals.
This isn't your typical, youknow, psychopathic, sociopath
(29:24):
background.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That he has.
Well, I mean, supposedly thestepfather had a proclivity for
beating the shit out of hisstepchildren.
He actually was the second of10 kids.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh, so they didn't find that out.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, at least you know per something I found, and
so you know again, and this ishe's growing up.
he was born in 1944.
So, again, my idea of, like youknow, the screwed up fathers
that were like beating the crapout of their boys in the 50s to
(30:02):
then create these monsters thatwent to kill when they were men.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, i just assumed he was this.
From what I found, he was justlike a very strict stepfather,
very strict, viable bumper.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I didn't realize, you know it was interesting, though
, if he's very strict, and againwe have to think about how
different child rearing is rightnow compared to back then.
I was actually reading a bookthat originally came out in 1980
about how to talk with yourchildren, and they kept talking
about smacking their kids in theface once the parent got too
(30:37):
angry And I was like, wait aminute, when was this?
and this is completely separatefrom this case, but it was just
like, wait a minute, when wasthis published again?
and I was like, oh, it was 1980.
And I think we forget how muchcorporal punishment was
normalized and used by familiesto keep their kids in line, and
(31:03):
so that's normal families.
So if we have a very strictCatholic stepfather all of a
sudden trying to keep 10 kids inline, i mean you got to think
that there's some massive abusegoing on there of the physical
kind, because, again, i went toCatholic school and I got my
hands hit by the nuns like itwas just a normal part of life
(31:24):
back then.
And so when we're talking aboutthe 60s and the 70s, i mean,
yeah, some dads punched theirsons in the face.
We just don't think about thatbecause it's in the two.
You'd like you'd get arrestednow.
Back then that was prettynormal.
I mean, obviously look downupon, because if your kid came
back with a black eye and it wasfrom his dad, like that, be
like oh no, but that was so muchmore normalized like violence
(31:48):
against your children versuswhat we're doing now, also in
the last case, one of the lastcases we discussed, the Susan
Smith, that whole corporalpunishment and not, comes up
again.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And there are now there are a bunch of principal,
there are a bunch ofpsychiatrists who believe that
it's actually very detrimentaland terrible to spank your
children.
So there's, now that you know,around the Susan Smith time, you
have the old generationthinking, no, this is this is
(32:22):
how you punish your kids, versusthis new thought which we
developed into, what we have, ibelieve, now.
So it's interesting, you know,it's just like it takes horrible
tragedies, i guess, in orderfor things to change.
Well, some things to change.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right.
So I mean again, i I don't.
I it was just like a line andpassing about how there was talk
of corporal punishment withthis stepfather, but again, kind
of extrapolating what thosetimes were like and knowing you
know very Catholic, very strictpeople, yeah, like I wouldn't be
(33:01):
surprised.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
And this is probably why he does face a chip close
bond with his mom.
You know they were very closeand really had a strong bond.
Maybe it was just like you know, stepdad is terrible, but this
is my mom.
She's always been here.
She's here for me or something.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Which is fascinating because usually men who kill
women tend to have issues withtheir mother Right And I wonder
if there was some way he wastrying to get the rage out on
women, especially when he startskilling the women in the 40s,
which is probably what his momwould have been like when he was
a kid And again, i'm totallylike armchair psychologist thing
(33:46):
right now.
But you know, there is a thingof like why didn't you protect
me against this person who wasnot my dad?
Like why did you allow him todo that?
And there can be a lot ofmisplaced rage towards the
mother, which you know.
Quite frankly, why didn't youprotect him?
And we don't know if the motheractually took the stepfather
(34:07):
side, like we, you know we don'tknow exactly what happened, but
like why women?
and like stabbing 30, 40 times,like that is such frenzied
overkill that It's also.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
It's also, i think, a stem is from, like, this whole
idea of desertion.
Right, he has his mom, who'smaybe deserving him in that way,
you know, and he needs herattention, needs her protection,
maybe doesn't get it Because ofmarriage, it's unsuccessful,
feels perhaps abandoned andthings didn't work out.
And that's where the angerreally starts.
Syrian woman deserts him.
(34:41):
So I think maybe it's just likethis, built to a finger, and
then it's just like oh my God,look at the women in my life.
They all leave me or theyignore me, and maybe that could
be his drive for doing this toinnocent women, you know.
No, i mean, i just want tothrow this in there with the
Barbara Simon case was with thescrew driver.
(35:03):
So he, you know, he's kind ofall over the place and ice pick
a tire, iron, a screwdriver.
There's no rhyme or reason towhat he's going to use A
shoelace I mean, it's drowning,it's well, the shoelace and the
drowning are definitely a littleseparate.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
But the I mean typically stabbing the victims
has always by profilers had saidthat that was a replacement for
sex, right, fornication.
It is very intimate, it's verysexual.
Typically the person whostabbing tends to hurt
themselves because the handslips on the blade.
(35:44):
It's like a very visceral thingof making holes in another body
.
And so maybe you're right aboutthe Syrian woman with the red
dress, but it was definitelythose type of crimes like did it
?
was he able to functionsexually?
Probably he fathered a child,but but yeah, it's, it's
(36:09):
disturbing.
And actually I pulled up a quotefrom the detectives.
It was a detective, don Brownfrom the Minneapolis PD said
that when this is a quote when Iwent over and opened up the
file case when they were tryingto get the confession out of him
, i had and this is back to thequote I had photographs of the
victims.
(36:30):
He looked up and his eyelidsstarted fluttering and I could
almost see that he wasenvisioning these homicides over
in his mind.
Yeah, and then quote, his voiceimmediately changed.
It went to a high pitch rightaway.
It struck me as the voice inthe recordings And in all my
past experiences.
Up to that point, i have neverseen any person change
personalities in front of me Andquote I knew I had him at that,
(36:53):
that's right.
I've said Yeah.
So I mean, we don't know.
Obviously there's whateverbrought him to kill these women.
He's still a piece of shit,like you know.
There's.
No, i don't want to blameanybody in his life for making
him what he was, but there are,you know.
(37:13):
Again, like what was thetrigger?
Was it the firing, as you said?
was it the voice being leftbehind, then being left behind
by his girlfriend, precipitate.
And there was another quotethat I found from him being like
I always thought that killingwas just normal, like driving a
car.
So I'm like, okay, well, ifthat was the case, then why did
you start killing at 37?
(37:34):
And did you kill before?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Right, like I just want to throw out there with
regards to you know how we focuson Beckland's Kimberly Compton
actually you know the whole busstation, locker, and this was
actually her first day in StPaul And she went there to start
(37:59):
a new life.
So that was literally her firstday in St Paul to start a new
life And when that happens Ijust want to throw that out
there.
You know this also could beCatholic guilt and the idea of
his family when he was growingup falling apart, the fact that
he couldn't have his own familyAnd the stepfather, regardless
(38:21):
of any sort of abuse that mayhave come from him, did sort of
get Paul into church, gotten himto become Catholic.
So maybe the 911 calls are hisCatholic guilt, coming out like
it's confession in a way, youknow, and if killing is like
(38:41):
driving a car to him, that leadsme to believe.
You know you have a bit ofpsychopathy, psychopathy,
psychopathy having there.
You know he's psychopathic Andthe calls the weepy is probably
he may have heard someone elseweep before because you know a
lot of psychotic, don't knowemotions, they don't know how to
(39:02):
describe emotions And a lot ofthe ways they interact with us.
They reach back from memory Allhow other people have reacted,
so they themselves may beincapable of looking sad or
sounding sad, but they have arecall.
Oh, i remember what it's likebecause you know my mom, my
brother cried, so they'llemulate that, and so that could
(39:25):
also be why he's doing theweeping, is because he feels
lousy about it And he knows thatthat's how you do it, because
you know why wouldn't you calland just be?
why call?
That's the first thing.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, like what is the?
Well, but also you know againfor the first time, i think it's
like you know.
you know again for beingomnipotent.
not omnipotent, but the otherone where he's a complete
failure in everything.
right, he gets fired from hisjob.
He has probably he's prettymuch only worked as a janitor,
(39:56):
like had very low menial jobs,and he got fired from those, and
so now it's he's doingsomething that I'm sure is
making the entire city kind offreak out.
right, he's a serial killer Andit's again this idea of wanting
the fame and, you know, beingsupposedly quote unquote smart
(40:16):
enough to play cat and mousewith the detectives.
Um, anyway, it's very patheticand really strange and pathetic.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And also, and again, those jobs lost and everything
else.
maybe this place is back up,but it's epilepsy, i mean.
maybe it was just like oh God,you know, like beaten by my
stepdad Or, since Catholicism,losing all these relationships.
it's just all kind of snowballs.
And yet another case we havesomeone that obviously needed
(40:49):
mental help.
by how do you get that mentalhelp if you don't want it or
you're ignoring it or you feeljustified?
You know, obviously, thesewomen the first victim is
wearing red Must have triggeredhim, must have triggered him in
some way, um, and he's unable tocontrol himself.
You know, um, but this isdefinitely a strange case And I
(41:11):
think it's.
you know you have, uh, this ison the heels.
I guess this is a few five orsix years removed from the son
of Sam.
you know where you have the sonof Sam.
you have Berkowitz, kind oftaunting.
you know those letters, uh, butI, you know me, the more I
think about it.
maybe it's it's, it's more ofthis confession than it is
taunting.
(41:32):
Yeah, confession, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Just like the Catholic guilt hitting really
hard.
In any case, all in all, a verypathetic man and, uh, the two
women who survived were, i mean,oh my God, i can't even imagine
Um, and lives lost becauseanother dude was a complete
loser, um, anyway, so that isthe case of the weepy voice
(41:56):
killer and, uh, we will put inthe actual 911 calls in.
and um, yeah, let us know whatyou think.
And thanks for joining us onthis summer edition of the
deviant mind, which is why we'rekind of a little bit all over
the place as far as our um, asfar as our weekly.
(42:18):
you know date and time that wecome out, but thank you so much
for sticking with us.
And uh, yeah, Tell your friends.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Tell your friends to give a listen and check out our
YouTube channel and subscribethere.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Exactly All right Till next week.
Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
This episode was sponsored by the Creek killer
book, one in the Harriet Harperthriller series written by me,
dominica best.
What would you do if you readthe police found your body in a
creek?
Find out in the creek killeravailable on Amazon.
Thank you for joining me andlistening to this episode.
If you like my show, pleasegive me a rating and review.
(43:27):
It helps other listeners findthis podcast.
So Dominica best presents thedeviant mind.
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