June 3, 2025 • 49 mins
Jon and Jay talk about having writer dads, the pressure of trying to succeed as a second gen show biz kid, how to direct movies with being a jerk, being right, the value of being lucky, and the why Captain Crunch is better than Peanut Butter Crunch.
Bio: Jon Turteltaub has been an elite producer and director of hit movies for the past 30 years. He is known for directing a series of hit films including 3 Ninjas, Cool Runnings, While You Were Sleeping, Phenomenon, National Treasure, National Treasure: Book of Secrets, Last Vegas, The Meg and others that clearly weren’t such big hits but did okay. His last film was the worldwide blockbuster The Meg, grossing over $500 million worldwide. Jon has also produced and directed several television projects, including the smash hit "Jericho" on CBS and “From the Earth to the Moon” for HBO. Jon was born in New York and raised in Beverly Hills before attending Wesleyan University and USC film school. His father, Saul Turteltaub, is a legendary television writer and producer known for "The Carol Burnett Show", "That Girl", "Sanford and Son" “Love American Style” and "What's Happening!". Jon has been married to Amy Eldon since 2006 and together they work extensively with The Creative Visions Foundation, supporting artists and activists. Jon has also served on the DGA Western Directors Council, as advisor to Represent.Us, and on the board of the Inner-City Filmmakers program. Jon and Amy have spent considerable time in Africa where they fund an orphanage in Kenya and work to protect and rehabilitate child soldiers in Uganda. Jon and Amy have three young children and, therefore, no time for anything fun.
Bio: Jon Turteltaub has been an elite producer and director of hit movies for the past 30 years. He is known for directing a series of hit films including 3 Ninjas, Cool Runnings, While You Were Sleeping, Phenomenon, National Treasure, National Treasure: Book of Secrets, Last Vegas, The Meg and others that clearly weren’t such big hits but did okay. His last film was the worldwide blockbuster The Meg, grossing over $500 million worldwide. Jon has also produced and directed several television projects, including the smash hit "Jericho" on CBS and “From the Earth to the Moon” for HBO. Jon was born in New York and raised in Beverly Hills before attending Wesleyan University and USC film school. His father, Saul Turteltaub, is a legendary television writer and producer known for "The Carol Burnett Show", "That Girl", "Sanford and Son" “Love American Style” and "What's Happening!". Jon has been married to Amy Eldon since 2006 and together they work extensively with The Creative Visions Foundation, supporting artists and activists. Jon has also served on the DGA Western Directors Council, as advisor to Represent.Us, and on the board of the Inner-City Filmmakers program. Jon and Amy have spent considerable time in Africa where they fund an orphanage in Kenya and work to protect and rehabilitate child soldiers in Uganda. Jon and Amy have three young children and, therefore, no time for anything fun.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media. I'm John Turtletaub, and this is Don't
Be Alone with James Cogan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Don't Be Alone with JJ Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hi, welcome to Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. I
am thrilled that you're here. I am very excited to
get your emails. Please email me it dbawjka at gmail
dot com with all your questions, your viewer questions which
I use to read on the show, but all your compliments.
I'm desperate for your compliments. I'm desperate for your criticism.
I'm desperate for connection of any kind. Why would I
(00:37):
be doing a podcast if I didn't want to meet
people and talk to people. This is I get nothing.
I don't know why I'm here. I'm here just to
connect with you and my friends. And I have a
good friend today to connect to my good friend, John Turtletub,
who I've known for many, many years, going into like
fifty five fifty six years of knowing this guy. It's
(00:59):
an interesting friendship. He and I have a very similar life.
His father was comedy writer Sault Turtletaub. My father's comedy
writer Arnie Cogan. They both worked on the Calvernet show
they both wrote and were friends with Steve Lawrence and
Igor May, and we as young people got connected with
each other through the Lawrences and our mutual friend Michael Lawrence,
(01:20):
who sadly passed away at a very young age. And
John and I went to different schools, weren't really connected together,
but at some point somewhere around high school we got
to know each other little bit more, and then in
college we got to know each other a lot more,
and we found out miraculously that we had simpatico, that
we understood each other, that we were from the same place,
(01:42):
that we knew the same things, that we kind of
understood a lot of our world in the same way.
And it's remarkable to have had a built in friend
for your whole life and then discover, oh, this really
is a friend. So we're going to talk to John
about growing up in the shadow little bit of other
successful people and where does that put our success or
(02:04):
our failure, and how do we sort of frame ourselves
and how we look at ourselves now after having somewhat
of a career and decide is it enough? Is it okay?
And are we enough? And are we okay? So, if
you're interested in that kind of stuff and then us
insulting each other and complimenting each other for no reason.
Then you should stay tuned and enjoy this lovely show
(02:27):
with director phenomenal director. He directed Phenomenon, While You're Sleeping, Cool, Running,
National Treasure, a million other things right after.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
This, don't be alone with jo.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
John.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
This is a pleasure to have you, not for me,
but for you. It's a pleasure for you to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
You're making the funny, but it's actually true. I love this.
It makes it really makes you feel good. I've known
you my whole life, and here you are with the podcast.
It's not a television show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Podcast, but you know how exclusive it is to have
a podcast, you know, the verified air.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I don't know how you managed to be hired for this.
I will say this. When I told my wife this morning,
I said, you know, Jay has a podcast, and she
was like, oh my god, that's so fantastic. I said,
I'm going to have to be there eleven because I'm
his guest today and she said, oh, so he does
not have a lot of listeners. Ah, it's not that big.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
The two things come to mind immediately when she said, oh,
that's so fantastic. What did she think this podcast was
When she said, oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I think she meant it's fantastic. You're not sitting at
home doing okay? All right, that's fine, And then that
might not have a lot of listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So she your wife, Amy is adorable, and yet somehow
I'm hearing she has to take you down a peg.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
She No, I think she actually meant it. No, she
she does that funny thing sometimes as a joke. I
I'm married to Amy because I'd never met anyone who
just gets it as well as she does. And the
people in life who tend to really get it usually
aren't as stunningly beautiful as she is, right and as
(04:13):
kind as she is. That combination makes for a perfect person.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Sure, So what you're doing with you that?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
You know what? Yin and yang?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So John, I want to say, uh, thank you again,
thank you for being here. But the reason I have
people on my show is to solve a problem I'm
having in my life. Okay, And there's no one I
know who likes solving other people's problems as much as
John Turtletop.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I do.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You're right every time. I'm working on that. But I
like it as problem. Yeah, but I'm getting to the
point of I can. I don't I can. It makes
me stressed out because I got to fix the thing,
and now I'm realizing, oh, other people's problems can be
left to those people to figure out.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's a hundred per true.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's new Seffy that said, my dream is to have
a reality show where people and cameras follow me around
and the show is called You're doing It Wrong around
as I get annoyed in my day and fix things.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Right. Let's let's talk about some of the things that
you've done that I that I love. One of the
things that you made. You know, obviously, when you started,
you made movies that you could make for the budgets
you could make and all that kind of stuff, and
they're fun and you can look back at that. But
you made a movie called While You Were Sleeping Okay
that I don't think there's a better romantic comedy in existence,
(05:39):
and and I love that movie. It's like, put it
up against whatever Hepburn and Tracy or Harry met Sally
or any of those things. It's fantastic. And I think
it's a really difficult genre. I think it's really hard
to thread the line between not being corny and not
being overly romantic but still being funny. And this, this
(06:00):
is the perfect movie. I don't know how to beat it.
So that like, how did you, at a young stage
in your career say this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I wanted to make from it. I thought the romantic comedy,
in my head was the apex of movies to make.
I don't disagree, because that is the crowd pleasing, wonderful thing.
And I am still a believer that, you know, people say,
it doesn't matter what other people think. You need to
be happy. I think in show business the only thing
that matters is what other people think.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I agree with you. That's the job, right.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Can't try you think? Did they laugh? Did they love it?
Did they show?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You're trying to make enough of other people. You're not
gonna make everybody like it, but if you get enough people,
then you feel successful.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right, And you're also not going to get critics to
like it and all that. You can't control these things,
but it still hurts, and it still drives you nuts
while you were sleeping. And part of I think what
success comes from is recognizing what's great. I read a
script I thought it was terrific. I was told I
can't get that movie. It's a little beyond me. And
(07:04):
it was already set up with Harrison Ford and Geena Davis,
and I believe it was going to be Christopher Columbus directing,
and they hadn't closed deals yet. It was going to
be expensive, and they didn't know whether they were going
to do it. And producers called me up and said,
we're not going to go with a really good director,
We're gonna go with you. That's verbatim, right, And the
(07:25):
minute it was me, Harrison Ford left, Geena Davis left.
Of course, I didn't expect anything different. I was happy, though,
because I thought the script was funny and I knew
how to get that on screen. Because to me, While
You're Sleeping is the most me movie that I made.
It's most it's my sense of humor. It's when I
(07:46):
find the funniest and all that. So I felt I
was a good arbiter of whether it was working or
not right and I could make good contributions right and again,
it's casting for and every director, I'll tell you, it's casting.
Sandra Bullock. The end you cast someone else that might
not be that movie, right, She's fantastic perfect. And that's
when you went on to make many many movies with
(08:06):
Sandra Bullocks. She couldn't get enough of me?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
What happened? Why no more movies with Sandra Bullock?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Because I was doing the thing first of all, where
I'd done my romantic comedy enough is something different. I've
never done a drama and I want to go do that,
and I did and that was fine. But also finding
great projects is hard, finding great projects with a star attached,
and it's a female that's hard, right, So things, we
(08:36):
have so much less control over our careers than the
public I think.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Thinks right, or that we think.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, you know. And John Travolta, who's had a very
up and very down career, I was sitting with him
when he was asked, literally verbatim, why did you make
so many bad movies? Okay? And John being on wasn't
upset by it, just heard it and said, you know,
(09:04):
you don't get to see how the movie comes out
before you say yes. In addition, you choose the movies
that are sent to you. You don't get to choose
from all the movies ever made. You get to choose
from the three or four that come your way. So
that's why you just choose the best thing you think
(09:25):
is available.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Let me ask you this question. We grew up I
grew up in and See No, And you grew up
in Beverly Hills, the show busy people were around all
that kind of stuff. We grew up with a lot
of people, some of whom were very became very very successful, yes,
and some of whom did not, and so and some
of whom tried to go into show business and succeeded wildly,
(09:48):
some of whom did not. You're you were in the
same class as Nicholas Cage, right, Yes, who's I'm told
a very successful actors.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
He's been in a few movies.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But for every Nicholas Cage, John Turtletoub, they're probably I
don't know, ten other or more people who thoast we
could do it and they're not going to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
And Nick didn't stand out as the most talented actor
in high school, but that's partially because there's high school
acting and there's movie.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Acting, and he hadn't learned to scream yet.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
No, but you know, I was a phenomenal actor in
high school. I was leaving the place because I was
great at high school.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Acting, which is not the best act.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's the best acting, Jay, No, it's not. And Nick
had another whole thing going. It wasn't until he got
on film that it really clicked for him and other
people they're just their styles have to meet what's going on.
But ton of us are just not that good and
not me.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I'm great.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
What's funny? You are great.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I'm a great actor. And by the way, my greatest role,
my greatest role is the pre ride film of Throwing
Over California. I was just in with Thomas Lennon, who
couldn't stop talking about that's so great.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
To be etched in the history of Disneyland is the
greatest thing ever. And that I could do that for.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You makes me very fantastic. I had a call regularly,
at least once every two weeks. So great, So I said,
do you know that you're in I said, yeah, I
do know that I'm in it. I'm glad that you're
watching it. It's but thank you for calling me, and
that way, like on a fluke you called, you said, yeah,
just I.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Was going down. I wanted just people. I like to
be around. I didn't want if I go out and
find an actor, then I have to be nervous and
awkward and make sure they're fine and make conversation. But
I could have you there and it would be fun
when we would do this. I knew it didn't require
great things. You had a smile and make a face
and be funny, and that's you.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
So he's you were a great high school actor. But
you didn't think I'm going to be an actor.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I went to college. I was a theater major. I
was like, oh, I'm going to be an actor, because
I'm going to be I didn't know. You don't know
what a director even is at seventeen. So I started
directing plays in college, and I was much better at
that than acting in the place.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Why do you think? How did I know or why
was that a better fit? Why was directing a play
because I was directing the play when I was acting
in it. I would be on stage thinking about which
side of the audience is laughing more, where the light
is is the actor standing in it? Should I get
this other actress to stand closer to me so that
(12:26):
they can see her?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's cold why do we have a call? That's where
I was. Actors who are great that in the moment
thing and they get lost in the role. That's a
real thing. I could never do it. I was always
aware of what was going on around me. You're doing
it wrong part of me. And that makes her a
bad actor but a very good director.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
How quickly did Harvey Kiteell not trust you as a director?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
We had the greatest time. Harvey Kaititell is so much
fun and it was shocking. I was nervous, intimidated it.
That didn't last long. It's funny. There are two kinds
of horribly scary actors to work with. Those who are
just difficult and famous right all the time, and those
(13:14):
who get bad when something goes wrong. The ones who
are both are very complicated. The ones who are just
a pain in the neck the whole time, you don't
want to work with them. But the ones who just
become difficult if anything goes wrong, you find a way
to manage that, right.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
But I mean, something always goes wrong at some point.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
When when someone comes up to me on the set
and they're very sheepish and they're giving me some really
bad news and something's gone wrong. I've said to them,
you don't understand if it's not my fault. I'm fine
because all I can do now is be a hero.
You're giving me an opportunity to save the day. If
(13:58):
you're coming up to me telling me something I did wrong,
I'm devastating.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Don't be alone with Jgico.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Well, here's my question that I wanted you to help
me solve, which is this. I want to figure out
how to look at my career, my storied, award winning
career as a writer, and place all the things I
haven't done in it and the things that are disappointing
(14:41):
I have disappointed myself by not doing and where I
put that in So like, in other words, how do
I define myself as a writer, as a father, but
mostly my professional career as a writer, and as a
producer and as a sometimes director, sometimes actor. What do
I do to sort of place myself in the pantheon
(15:04):
of people, many of whom I love, who are much
much more successful, some of whom I love were less successful.
But my expectations of me was to be way up here,
and I'm like here.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
The first thing is to ask shorter questions that went
on a long time. Uh huh. So if you can
just basically, in like twelve or fourteen words, ask a question, right,
that would.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Be much easy. Well, the blank look on your face
the whole time made me think I had to.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Keep going thinking of a philosophical depth and emotional and
psychological stuff. Are you asking, yes, me to tell you
where you stand in the pantheon? I?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
No, I'm asking this because we both grew up with
fathers who are writers.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And we both grew up in show business.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And we may have had because of that, we may
have had expectations of what it's like to be in
show business and what success looks like. Yes. So if
I came from some you know, the middle of of
Ohio and with no expectations, I might at this point think,
Jake Cogan, I can't believe you've done the things you've done.
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay, So are you here's a good question. Was that
expectation about what you would achieve?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Or yes?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Or get to the point where you got that feeling
the feeling of being in the mix in one of
those guys.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, it's what I would achieve. In other words, when
I thought, when I was a kid. By the time
I'm thirty, I better have won an Academy Award for
directing a movie.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay, well that's mad because I knew you then you're
an idiot. Right, that's a stupid expectation.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
But I thought it and I know it was possible,
but I didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Okay, you didn't care yourself as that person.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Though, Right, But I knew its possible.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It was possible, and it could have happened. Right, Like, Look,
it's all of us. We had a lot of our
parents and other white privilegy things that happened with us.
They're all miracles. Every job in show businesses is a miracle.
There's so many ways for it to not happen. Right,
you were on a small thing on Tracy Ullman. It's
(17:08):
by the luck that the Simpsons did a cartoon on
that show.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Right, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So that's like a crazy weird thing. So you're connected
to the Simpsons and that pulls you into that. Now
you have the opportunity to show yourself that you were
worthy of that, and people around you thought, oh, Jay's
really good. His partner's better that he's good. Right, So
let's hire him. But that show could have been canceled
after six weeks and then nothing.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
We thought it would be sure. I mean, but the
Tracy Almond Show actually was the bigger deal at the time.
Tracy Aumenshow was an Emmy Award winning Jim Brooks thing.
It was like a much bigger deal that the cartoon
was the thing that everybody said, don't do the cartoon
was like, that's the mistake.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
This is all about how you frame things. That's right, right,
So we can frame things in light of what did
our parents achieve? Right, Okay, you've already achieved more than
your father, Yes, or no?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I would career wise, maybe maybe, I think that's up
for debate.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
How many Emmys did he win?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
He won three?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay, how many of you won? Well?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Four?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, So there you go. That's all done.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
That's done the Scorecar.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Are you funnier than your dad?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I don't think so. I'm a more serious writer than
my dad, and that could be a victory.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, And you're a great writer. And he was never
on a ride of this wanting to win, that's true.
Wanting to win an Oscar by thirty is fine. Thinking
you're going to is the issue of growing up with
successful parents, right that you set an no real expectation.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
But I'm now I'm sixty and I'm still thinking, well maybe,
and that's kind of goofy too.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Do you like who you are.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Seventy percent?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Would you like yourself more if you won an Academy award?
I'd like my career more maybe, But you wouldn't be happier. No,
it's true, I wouldn't like myself more, but I'd like
my career so own that. Yeah, realize you're good, you
like yourself, you came to a good place, You've had
a good life, you did great. You'd be more, you'd
(19:07):
have more to show from your career. But in terms
of awards. But are you saying I would have loved
to win an Oscar because it's great to win an Oscar?
Or are you saying I wish I had written something
worthy of an Oscar?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
A little bit of both. I guess I don't really
believe oscars are the demarcation of what's worthy truly. I
like the I guess the large ass what people associate
with it to be reflected on me, as opposed to
the fact of, you know, I think one favorite movies
(19:40):
have nothing to do with Oscar.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I feel the same as you and that I'd love
to have that label right right because I know what
that label meant to me. Now that I know what
that label actually means, and now that we're in a
point where I'm kind of thinking, in ten years, they
won't even be oscars. In another conversation, I also started
doing the following of thinking, Hmmm, I've done enough to
(20:06):
feel good about myself. I didn't do the things as
great as I wanted to, but I'm understanding why and
the choices I made. What did what didn't you do?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Is great?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
The kind of movie was an Oscar to be more
famous as a director, to be on that, you know,
just sort of at the top of those big, big paychecks.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
But your Howard dream about your career is Howard Hawk's.
Your career is like a guy who's made a ton
of different movies and a ton of different genres, popcorn
movies that people loved.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
That's really nice and to say, and I never thought
it until about a few years ago. Someone looked me
in the eye and said, John, you're a really successful director.
And this person was in a show business or in
person was.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It Liam Neeson?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, and it Uncle Liam, and it It actually sat
with me and I went, you know what, just take
that in, yeah, believe him, and spend the rest of
your life thinking, oh, you succeeded great. And so my
ambitions and feeling empty started going away, and I realized
(21:16):
I don't need to get anywhere. I'm there.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Who in us growing up or the kids we knew,
We've known each other since we were very young. We
had mutual friends with the Lawrences, and your dad was
friends with them. My dad was friends with it, and
we sort of we hung out a little bit as kids,
more as adults than as kids. Yes, and uh and
but always not interesting. I always said that guy John
totally interesting kid.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I felt interesting kids funny. But I don't see him
very much. And you know, but he's kid. He's a
son of my parents' friends exactly, not my friend.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Right. There were guys we grew up with where we knew,
who were also in this world, who I think were
waylaid by the idea of their parents being show business
and them not being successful. What do you what can
we draw from that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
A lot of those people loved the accouterment of success
and were usually given a lot more of it than
we were. They saw themselves as good at it before
they proved to themselves they were actually good at it.
(22:24):
I think a lot of them did not have a
lot of talent and did not have a lot of
depth to the reasons why they wanted to do it.
It looked good to them, but they didn't love it.
You love what you do for a living. I do.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I do. I love I loved making shows. And if
somebody said your job was to be like this third
assistant editor to make shows, I do that, like absolutely
be part of Whenever.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Someone said to you, you're gonna have to stay up
all night and sleep out in the colt to get
a show made, you'd look at them like, well, duh,
right right, yes, of course, of course, the way with
your baby, right so you know when you have kids,
you're not gonna go to the movies and you're gonna
have to stay up all night. You're looking at them like, yeah,
that's nothing. But there are a lot of people who
(23:17):
don't see it that way. They go, oh, I don't
really want to do that. Well, that person shouldn't be
doing this.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I don't think they are.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And that's who. I think a lot of those people are.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So when you were making three and Ninchs, which happened
to be I think the big crossover movie for you,
Big break, Big break, because you made this movie that
was a smaller movie that was really well done and
made a gazillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
It didn't make a gazillion, but it made a lot
more than expected.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
It was the most profitable movie in the year that
you made it of any movie made.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
That is true here. So what's the question? The question
in question so much luck, I can't even did you
I did not?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
That was just success. But did you feel like, oh,
this is this is really humming, this one's this one's
feeling good?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Nope. And I thought the script was but it was
a job and I saw where it could be good.
And as we made it and we're finishing it up,
we thought it was terrible, and other people told us
it was terrible. We were pretty sure it was terrible,
but we kept going. The editor quit towards the end.
(24:26):
He kind of could get another job. He's like, well,
I'm not staying on this turkey, and he left. We
just didn't know, and we had a screening and I
had a cousin who told another guy to come, and
that guy worked in acquisitions at Disney, and he made
that guy come. We weren't going to even have the screening.
(24:47):
It was the same week as the riots in Los Angeles.
The riots started that end of that week. So if they,
if we hadn't done it that night, all goes away.
So all these pieces of good fortune happen. And somehow
this guy saw it, loved it, and Disney bought the movie. Right,
it's crazy, right, So I don't know, never know going in.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Disney made your movie and they killed my movie.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Oh dear, that's true.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It's all right. The beginning in the Yang, the beginning
in the Yang. Yeah, so okay.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So's told the audience all about your Oh they know.
I mean.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
The Wrong Guy is a movie you can watch on
YouTube if you want to see it for free. It's
very funny. And Disney killed it. But that's fine. It's sorry.
It's still out there.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
They didn't ruin the movie, they just never released it.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
They yes, they stopped it and continue to stop it
from being seen on cable or things that would be
pay money.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
But it's they did such a good it's not even
a cult classic. Yeah, it's just nobody watches it, right, exactly,
nobody's made.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's not a cult classic. But it's a cult film
because four people have seen it. Correct, That's why it's
a cult film.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We're in a good cult.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yes, it's good. I have a question for you. But
producer Ryan has seen Cool Runnings many many, many many times.
So Cool Runnings? What drew you to it?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
After three ninches there was a buzz like, oh, who's that?
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Director?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Took a little, tiny, nothing film. So this little buzz
and I got sent some scripts. They were all in
Hollywood sort of, but the bottom of the barrel, because
that's where I was entering the room. And it's like
I got invited to the dance, but no one wanted
to dance with me. I got these scrips. They were
(26:27):
bad and not great. I don't know what this is,
right'd say maybe, and they wouldn't hire me. And my agent,
a man named David Lonner, who's been awesome because he's
honest with me. He said, John, remember how all summer
you were the flavor of the month. I said yeah.
He said, you're month's over.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Yeah, do a movie, right, So the best of the
ones out was a script called Blue Maga, the original
title of Core Runnings.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
But Disney never believed in that movie. Always thought it
was going to be terrible. They didn't want to make it,
but they had to contractually, and they were going to
bury it. And then they saw it and they all
and they all said it that, oh we blew it.
This is really good. And it was too late to
(27:18):
suddenly they missed a lot of the windows and all
that we opened I think in third place, and then
the second week we're in second place.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
That never happened.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
That never happens, and we just kept staying around and
the word of mouth was phenomenal. And that's look for
direct for me. Yeah, you want the studio to open
the movie. It's as much as can't. They can, but
you can give, for the most part, studio credit when
your movie opens big. But you get the credit if
(27:52):
it sticks around because people like it. And so that
that sticks around and.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
People love that movie. People talk by that all the time.
And John Candy was a great.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
He was as amazing a person and great as you
hope he was. That was the guy I've never been
that dorky around a big movie star. I met John
and I was just an idiot. I just this was
my hero, my idol and whatever. He would talk and
I'd go like, it's like I almost called him every time, Hi,
(28:27):
John Candy, would you like come here? Name John Candy.
When we first met, we had to go to wardrobe
and we talked about what kind of hat he would
wear it and he goes, I'm not wearing a hat.
I said, why are you wearing hat? And he's because
I look funny your hats. I said, no, look good,
and he goes, look and he went through and put
(28:47):
on about twelve different hats, did a funny thing in
each hat, looked ridiculous in every hat. He was right
and hilarious, and I just I was like, I just
got a one man show, private Leaf from John k Yeah,
the greatest, kind, funny.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
The best.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Don't be alone with Jo.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Talking about movies that last forever. I didn't know this
because I'm too old, But when you made the National
Treasure movies, I thought, oh, this is a good movie,
this is fun, this is good. But I've worked with
writers now on my staff who say, no, that's the
movie that changed my life. Like you know, you know
the director of National they don't give a shit about
(29:44):
anything else. They don't give it Steven Spielberg's number. They're
not interested in. They want to find out who directed
National Treasure? How did that become? Like like a generation's movie?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Like I think there are There are a lot of
people who helped make that movie a success, and I
it's the one movie where, even though a lot of
it was me listening to other people's advice, I was
the one who willed it into existence and got it
(30:17):
to what it was because and I'll say this for
all you directors out there listening and all you movie people,
it was on that movie that I learned that the
most important thing a director does, and maybe the only
important thing a director does, is tone. Tone is everything
(30:37):
to a movie, and it's that's the director's job. When
you are watching a movie, you love you, all of you.
You can remember that movie and what it felt like.
You know what that world of that movie was. That's
the tone. Yeah, okay, you're in it. The tone of
National Treasure was not only great, but no one else
(30:58):
understood it. No one wanted to make it because it
wasn't clear what the tone was. We were told no
and put off. So many times because it's a history movie.
History is boring, and you want to thought history wasn't
so boring. Certainly thought, as American history goes, the Revolutionary
War period is the most boring, right. Civil War love it,
(31:20):
World War two love it. Revolutionary War boring. And I
kept saying, you're wrong, You're wrong, You're wrong, because all
of these things are boring because your teacher was boring, right,
And I refuse to be a boring teacher. I'm going
to be the best history teacher you ever have. And
now people love that stuff because they had a non
boring teacher. One day, early like second day on the set,
(31:44):
Nick said to me, John, are we playing this real?
Are we playing this for comedy? And I said yes, right.
You looked at me odd. I said, there's no comedy
that's better than when it's real. Your character is real.
The comedy comes out of that realness of that character.
There might be some crazy stuff going on, but we
(32:08):
want to believe in these people as people and care
about them as people. Don't play the comedy, find the
joke right, play the person. He got it. He loved it.
The whole cast got it and loved it. But he
had it took time, and Jerry Brookheimer, the king of
the action movie, kept looking at me and he what
(32:30):
was great about Jerry? He would say, it's great if
it's funny, that's what you do. Go make it funny,
because he knows he can't make it funny, right right,
He wants it funny, so he hires people can make
it funny.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I worked on Kangaroo Jack. Yeah, I know how unfunny
Jerry Bruckheimer movie could be.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
So there was something in the tone and the willingness
to combine classic elements. See. The thing I think National
Try and while You're Sleeping and co Runnings have is
the thing that's been in my way a lot of
the time, and it's the thing that has given me
my success is trying to make movies that are timeless
(33:12):
and classical. They draw on the permanent, wonderful things that
movies have to offer. It's not the same as cliche,
but it's cliche adjacent. Okay, right, what are those things?
Happy endings, Okay, satisfying endings, cathartic friendships, love romance, but
(33:37):
humor that elevates. There's very little darkness in my films,
and I think darkness that's a problem I've had troubled
with darkness. That's why I get bad reviews. Reviewers love darkness.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
When I see a movie. I'm bad at it.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
There's a little darkness in nomen on. There's a little
darkness and something you know.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
That's conflict and that's worry. But uh, you know some
of the like Paul Thomas Anderson movie or David Russell movie,
you're you're living in that darkness in a lot of
ways and staying there and mining that stuff. That's not
(34:22):
something I'm great at. I wish you were all right.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, now I have a question.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Time is question?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Did you hear that? That means it's question time?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (34:38):
These are questions that people wrote in specifically for you.
No way they did. Okay, here's the here's the first question.
What's his favorite creative experience and in what capacity was
he helping to create? Let me read this again. What
was his favorite creative experience?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
An idiot?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
And in what capacity was he helping to create during
this experience?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Most creative experience might have been up with this way.
The movie I enjoyed making and felt very creative was
Last Vegas. It was a movie with huge star actors
Michael Douglas, Morgan Freeman, Kevin Klein and Robert de Niro
(35:21):
and Mary stein Bergen. They were delightful. They were amazing
and every day that you're doing stuff, they're making it better,
so it feel you feel lighter and you feel open
to contribute. It all went smoothly, and I think the
result was terrific, and so I would say Last Vegas
(35:41):
is certainly the most enjoyable experience that felt creative.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Did this guys and Mary Steamer? Did they socialize? Were
they hanging out?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Would some of them? Some not? That's you're learning all
this because look everything Robert de Niro sat by himself
most of the time. I like to talk. They're all different.
Some like to talk to me. Even that was amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Did de Niro come to you with like his head
cocked this at an angle and think what are you doing?
Like any of that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
He talked to me. If we talked about the scenes
right first day of shooting, we get to the set
is a huge shot. Robert de Niro's walking into a
casino right, a lot of extras. Everyone's supposed to be
there six in the morning. We all get there. No
de Niro six thirty, No de Niro seven o'clock, No DeNiro.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
That sounds like could cost a lot of denarro.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
We have to scrap the shot and we move on. Now.
We can't handle this every day. We can't tolerate that.
That's not gonna work. And the producers look at me
and go, wow, somebody better talk to him. I'm like, whoa.
So I go to his trailer. He opens the door
and I said to him, good morning, mister de Niro. Right,
(36:58):
and I left.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Ah, that was it.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
That was all I had, right because in that moment,
I realized I'm gonna fight with him. Would I argue
with him? And he was late? He had a read
it'd be late or he didn't. But he's gonna be late,
and that's the way it is. And again, going back,
if I'm the person with super integrity, I could probably
have that conversation with him in a way. I'm not
that guy, and I can't be that guy all the time.
I'm me. So I decided I'll have fun with Robert
(37:23):
de Niro and will get along great. And if he's late,
he's late.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Talk about not being in conflict with your actors. How
does a guy like David o'russell scream at his actors
and then still they want to come work with him again.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
There are many directors like that, and they scream and
they're horrible to people, and yet the actors, but mostly
the crew people take the beating and they come back.
It's odd, it's weird. What it does is it means
the second film they do with them, they can't complain, right,
you knew what you were getting in, right, And someone
(37:57):
would say, well you shouldn't have to up with that
to have a job, Well you should if it's the
second time, right, that's part of that job. They don't
come back if the movie that they got yelled at
on was a failure, they tend to come back to
be part of success.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I guess the Lily Tomlin who had very famous screaming match,
I don't think she's worked a lot with the David
to wrestle since. I heart huckabees a.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Very strong feeling about the following. Christian Bale recorded screaming
and yelling at a DP. Right. People sent that tape around,
look a horrible, how horrible? How horrible? Someone played it
for me and they said, what do you think of this,
and I said, honestly, it sounds to me like a Tuesday, right.
That's a set occurrence that happens on set, right, And
(38:46):
I guarantee you everyone involved in that was fine. What
offended me was that it got out that the movie
set was in a safe space, and that the person
who recorded that was not supposed to be recording that
and certainly was not supposed to be sending that to
other people. That I found very offensive.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Here's another question, ask John Turtletub if you ever considered
changing his name.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yes, you did in kindergarten. First of all, it's been
brutal having a horrible name, and it. Larry David came
up to me two years ago said I'm doing John,
I'm doing a show and I need a character have
a horrible, horrible name. Can I use your name? He's sure,
(39:34):
Larry David, go ahead. My father had changed his name
also for a while when he was trying to be
a stand up comedian. So for about four years in
his life, sault turtle Tub was actually Stan Taylor.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Wow, I did not know ye.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
There are people in my whole life who still called
him stand because they knew him from that time, so
I thought about it, but when I realized, no, if
my dad never did, and I can do it, and
I want to honor that, so I'm gonna stick with it.
But it's a pain in the next spelling it over
and over again.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
No, you have the Jake Hogan.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
No, I have to write out turtleteb plenty of times.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Oh that right, But for you, you're just a kog
and they.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Can't spell it. It's not a horrible name, but then
nobody can spell it. It's fine. What's the one scene
from a movie that you truly love but had to
cut because it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
No, I don't know if this is the most but
I was actually thinking about this the other day. There
is a scene not in a movie I made called
The Kid officially Disney's The Kid, because nothing could have
been worse. And there's a what I thought was a
really funny scene with Bruce Willis and Matthew Perry making
(40:52):
a cameo appearance in as like full on mustache and
beard and long hair and was unrecognizable as and he
was really funny, and it was there because it was funny.
It was not helping the plot move along and out
it went, and I always felt it's a shame that
(41:14):
wasn't there, and I felt bad for Matt that he
did me the favor of showing up and doing all
this and I had to throw it out.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
What's the scene you wish you could do over again? Oh?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
That was came out bad, and I was like, God,
I blew that scene and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Come up back. It's like, oh, we got so close,
so we ran out of time, or with they got.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
There so many I actually think you mentioned while you
were sleeping the final scene where she confesses Sandy's great.
I think that scene could have been much much better,
and I didn't know how to quite get it there.
It shot flat, weird color to it. She brings everything,
and yet that scene should have brought the audience to
(41:55):
tears and didn't. And it's my fault.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
And I'm not sure why I remember hating that scene
in the movie. Yes, I didn't hate it.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It was great. It was fine. It's in the movie. Yeah,
it works.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
The last thing that there's a there's a theme for
which is moment of joy. So you listen to a
moment of.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Joy, a moment of joy.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
So moment of joy. What's the thing that you do
that gives you joy that maybe I could do or
our listeners could do.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Playing music in a band okay, when you're in a band.
When I'm playing in a band, I play keyboards. When
you're with a band and you make you all play
together in the song, it's the greatest feeling. You're with
your people. You like you're creating something and it takes
all of you to create that. You feel like a
rock star and it just sounds. You can listen to
(42:51):
the thing you're creating and enjoy the thing you're creating.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Right while it's happened.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
While it's happening, it's rare. You make us paint you know,
you paint ating and go, I'm so moved. Right music,
you listen to it and you can enjoy the thing
you're even so, I would say being part of a.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Band, do you get a chance to jam a lot?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I actually do a little bit in a great way.
My daughter's elementary school, which was my son's elementary school,
has a parent band okay, and it's teachers and parents,
small five to six people, and every Friday there's a
school assembly where we play in the kids dance two
songs and it's on a theme. Okay, So it's just
(43:35):
the five, six, maybe seven of us. And when you
play together it's really fun.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
You rehearse your songs.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
We used to rehearse more, now less. But in this
band there have been over the years ridiculously amazing musicians.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Who's like the best of the best to the cream
of the crib.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
A guy named Chris Cheney, who is the bass player
for was on Atlantis, Morrisset's albums and Shakira's albums and
all and is part of Jane's addiction. Okay, And when
you're playing with someone like that, you realize, oh, that's
a thing. That's a very very different thing being.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
A professional great bass player.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's all the things that they do well that you like.
It's not even the virtuosity. It's the ability to create
and move and guide and all of these things that
you don't realize is so important and how easy it is. Right.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
It's also and I'll say something that I don't know
at all what it means, but I've heard people say
it's what they don't play, not just what they play.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Right, that's a cliche and talking that's really stupid. We
should try it. It's what you don't say in this podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Okay, all right, Well, I'm thinking about something about my
friend John. I'm not saying it interesting. Interesting. Well John,
thank you for being here. This is I'm wrapping up
this help.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I need to come back. Okay, I need a podcast
of my own and about you. Tell me something, tell
me something deep about me, about me that you've observed
in our deep friendship for many years that I don't
You don't think I know enough, or you don't think
I believe. I think you have the ability to fix problems,
(45:19):
your ability to love people, and your ability to make
people feel good about themselves, and this tolerance you have
and your extraordinary intelligence. You would be of great value
to people. And yet you don't have a charity. You
don't have a thing that's your thing. You don't volunteer
at the Place to change lives. And I think that's
(45:40):
a waste.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Fair, that's fair. I don't. I don't do. I don't
have a specific charity that I champion anymore. I used
to have a few. I got bogged down in the
world of charity. I got bogged down in administrative bullshit
that really made me like.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Ah, awful. This happens all the time.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
Awful. It is like I don't need I don't need
that kind of stuff. I do, like I teach at
usc but it's okay, Like it's not really changing the
world or offering something. It's not really fixing anything exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Right, you're also teaching at UCLA. You're not teaching Uscipia.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Although I went with you when he did.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
We did go to try and teach a film school. Yes,
in Rwanda, they still talk about it.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I'm going there in two days back to.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
That same film school. Yes, Oh fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
And I went uh last summer bro Will Ferrell last summer. Right,
they were much more excited to see him than me.
I'm at a crossroads where I am stuck in terms
of charity and do gooderness. I'm sixty one and the sad,
horrible thing to say I'm gonna say, which is I'm
tired of all of it not making a difference.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Right, But you're asking me to join in.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
With you, correct and figure because I think you could
probably find a way to make that different. Now, doing
the good thing does fulfill you. It's great people like
you and it does help certain specific people. But if
you think the system is bad and the conditions upon
which these things happen, it is unbearably difficult to actually
(47:17):
change things. Yeah, and I'm getting really sick of not changing.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
It is hard to want to make a change and
seeing even being satisfied with incremental change or very little
change is very hard. Is very hard.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
See if you see someone buried in a pile of manure,
and you are a good person, and you know that
person needs to live and what's down there needs to
be saved, it's hard to get a shovel and pull
out all that manure. But you will stop doing it
when you see there are other people putting manure in.
(47:53):
That's true, and that's the situation our country's in right now.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
It's hard. It's hard, but I have more I think
I have more optimism at this moment than you do.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I'm still trying to find the thing that I am
still looking for what it is that I can actually
do and make that change.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Right, We'll find it. You'll figure it out, okay. In
the meantime, John Turtletob, thank you for being here. I
love you. I really appreciate you coming to do this.
Not something you necessarily want to do on a Wednesday.
So thanks. Driving out from wherever the hell the west
side to the east side is terrible, it's a nightmare.
Forgive me, but thank you for being here. You're a
(48:29):
very talented, lovely person. And I'm thrilled that our fathers
were mutual acquaintances when we were kids so that we
could be friends now as adults.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Thank you. And I'll say this about you. You are
one of those people who when you say thank you
and I love you, the person hears it, Oh, so
thank you, well.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
I love you. There you go and I love you.
Are you hearing that? People? Thank you for being a
part of the show. Please write to me at Dbawjka
at gmail dot com with all your questions complaints, But
for God's sake, subscribe to this show. Like this show.
Tell your friends about this show. That's all I care about.
That's any That's it. That's the one thing. And please
(49:09):
don't be alone. Go have a conversation with somebody else,
face to face, somebody you care about, a good friend
like I have right here. It'd do you good. All right,
Bye bye?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Don't be alone with j Cogain
Straw Hut Media. I'm John Turtletaub, and this is Don't
Be Alone with James Cogan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Don't Be Alone with JJ Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hi, welcome to Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. I
am thrilled that you're here. I am very excited to
get your emails. Please email me it dbawjka at gmail
dot com with all your questions, your viewer questions which
I use to read on the show, but all your compliments.
I'm desperate for your compliments. I'm desperate for your criticism.
I'm desperate for connection of any kind. Why would I
(00:37):
be doing a podcast if I didn't want to meet
people and talk to people. This is I get nothing.
I don't know why I'm here. I'm here just to
connect with you and my friends. And I have a
good friend today to connect to my good friend, John Turtletub,
who I've known for many, many years, going into like
fifty five fifty six years of knowing this guy. It's
(00:59):
an interesting friendship. He and I have a very similar life.
His father was comedy writer Sault Turtletaub. My father's comedy
writer Arnie Cogan. They both worked on the Calvernet show
they both wrote and were friends with Steve Lawrence and
Igor May, and we as young people got connected with
each other through the Lawrences and our mutual friend Michael Lawrence,
(01:20):
who sadly passed away at a very young age. And
John and I went to different schools, weren't really connected together,
but at some point somewhere around high school we got
to know each other little bit more, and then in
college we got to know each other a lot more,
and we found out miraculously that we had simpatico, that
we understood each other, that we were from the same place,
(01:42):
that we knew the same things, that we kind of
understood a lot of our world in the same way.
And it's remarkable to have had a built in friend
for your whole life and then discover, oh, this really
is a friend. So we're going to talk to John
about growing up in the shadow little bit of other
successful people and where does that put our success or
(02:04):
our failure, and how do we sort of frame ourselves
and how we look at ourselves now after having somewhat
of a career and decide is it enough? Is it okay?
And are we enough? And are we okay? So, if
you're interested in that kind of stuff and then us
insulting each other and complimenting each other for no reason.
Then you should stay tuned and enjoy this lovely show
(02:27):
with director phenomenal director. He directed Phenomenon, While You're Sleeping, Cool, Running,
National Treasure, a million other things right after.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
This, don't be alone with jo.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
John.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
This is a pleasure to have you, not for me,
but for you. It's a pleasure for you to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
You're making the funny, but it's actually true. I love this.
It makes it really makes you feel good. I've known
you my whole life, and here you are with the podcast.
It's not a television show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Podcast, but you know how exclusive it is to have
a podcast, you know, the verified air.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I don't know how you managed to be hired for this.
I will say this. When I told my wife this morning,
I said, you know, Jay has a podcast, and she
was like, oh my god, that's so fantastic. I said,
I'm going to have to be there eleven because I'm
his guest today and she said, oh, so he does
not have a lot of listeners. Ah, it's not that big.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
The two things come to mind immediately when she said, oh,
that's so fantastic. What did she think this podcast was
When she said, oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I think she meant it's fantastic. You're not sitting at
home doing okay? All right, that's fine, And then that
might not have a lot of listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So she your wife, Amy is adorable, and yet somehow
I'm hearing she has to take you down a peg.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
She No, I think she actually meant it. No, she
she does that funny thing sometimes as a joke. I
I'm married to Amy because I'd never met anyone who
just gets it as well as she does. And the
people in life who tend to really get it usually
aren't as stunningly beautiful as she is, right and as
(04:13):
kind as she is. That combination makes for a perfect person.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Sure, So what you're doing with you that?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
You know what? Yin and yang?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So John, I want to say, uh, thank you again,
thank you for being here. But the reason I have
people on my show is to solve a problem I'm
having in my life. Okay, And there's no one I
know who likes solving other people's problems as much as
John Turtletop.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I do.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You're right every time. I'm working on that. But I
like it as problem. Yeah, but I'm getting to the
point of I can. I don't I can. It makes
me stressed out because I got to fix the thing,
and now I'm realizing, oh, other people's problems can be
left to those people to figure out.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's a hundred per true.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's new Seffy that said, my dream is to have
a reality show where people and cameras follow me around
and the show is called You're doing It Wrong around
as I get annoyed in my day and fix things.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Right. Let's let's talk about some of the things that
you've done that I that I love. One of the
things that you made. You know, obviously, when you started,
you made movies that you could make for the budgets
you could make and all that kind of stuff, and
they're fun and you can look back at that. But
you made a movie called While You Were Sleeping Okay
that I don't think there's a better romantic comedy in existence,
(05:39):
and and I love that movie. It's like, put it
up against whatever Hepburn and Tracy or Harry met Sally
or any of those things. It's fantastic. And I think
it's a really difficult genre. I think it's really hard
to thread the line between not being corny and not
being overly romantic but still being funny. And this, this
(06:00):
is the perfect movie. I don't know how to beat it.
So that like, how did you, at a young stage
in your career say this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I wanted to make from it. I thought the romantic comedy,
in my head was the apex of movies to make.
I don't disagree, because that is the crowd pleasing, wonderful thing.
And I am still a believer that, you know, people say,
it doesn't matter what other people think. You need to
be happy. I think in show business the only thing
that matters is what other people think.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I agree with you. That's the job, right.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Can't try you think? Did they laugh? Did they love it?
Did they show?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
You're trying to make enough of other people. You're not
gonna make everybody like it, but if you get enough people,
then you feel successful.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right, And you're also not going to get critics to
like it and all that. You can't control these things,
but it still hurts, and it still drives you nuts
while you were sleeping. And part of I think what
success comes from is recognizing what's great. I read a
script I thought it was terrific. I was told I
can't get that movie. It's a little beyond me. And
(07:04):
it was already set up with Harrison Ford and Geena Davis,
and I believe it was going to be Christopher Columbus directing,
and they hadn't closed deals yet. It was going to
be expensive, and they didn't know whether they were going
to do it. And producers called me up and said,
we're not going to go with a really good director,
We're gonna go with you. That's verbatim, right, And the
(07:25):
minute it was me, Harrison Ford left, Geena Davis left.
Of course, I didn't expect anything different. I was happy, though,
because I thought the script was funny and I knew
how to get that on screen. Because to me, While
You're Sleeping is the most me movie that I made.
It's most it's my sense of humor. It's when I
(07:46):
find the funniest and all that. So I felt I
was a good arbiter of whether it was working or
not right and I could make good contributions right and again,
it's casting for and every director, I'll tell you, it's casting.
Sandra Bullock. The end you cast someone else that might
not be that movie, right, She's fantastic perfect. And that's
when you went on to make many many movies with
(08:06):
Sandra Bullocks. She couldn't get enough of me?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
What happened? Why no more movies with Sandra Bullock?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Because I was doing the thing first of all, where
I'd done my romantic comedy enough is something different. I've
never done a drama and I want to go do that,
and I did and that was fine. But also finding
great projects is hard, finding great projects with a star attached,
and it's a female that's hard, right, So things, we
(08:36):
have so much less control over our careers than the
public I think.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Thinks right, or that we think.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, you know. And John Travolta, who's had a very
up and very down career, I was sitting with him
when he was asked, literally verbatim, why did you make
so many bad movies? Okay? And John being on wasn't
upset by it, just heard it and said, you know,
(09:04):
you don't get to see how the movie comes out
before you say yes. In addition, you choose the movies
that are sent to you. You don't get to choose
from all the movies ever made. You get to choose
from the three or four that come your way. So
that's why you just choose the best thing you think
(09:25):
is available.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Let me ask you this question. We grew up I
grew up in and See No, And you grew up
in Beverly Hills, the show busy people were around all
that kind of stuff. We grew up with a lot
of people, some of whom were very became very very successful, yes,
and some of whom did not, and so and some
of whom tried to go into show business and succeeded wildly,
(09:48):
some of whom did not. You're you were in the
same class as Nicholas Cage, right, Yes, who's I'm told
a very successful actors.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
He's been in a few movies.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But for every Nicholas Cage, John Turtletoub, they're probably I
don't know, ten other or more people who thoast we
could do it and they're not going to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
And Nick didn't stand out as the most talented actor
in high school, but that's partially because there's high school
acting and there's movie.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Acting, and he hadn't learned to scream yet.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
No, but you know, I was a phenomenal actor in
high school. I was leaving the place because I was
great at high school.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Acting, which is not the best act.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
It's the best acting, Jay, No, it's not. And Nick
had another whole thing going. It wasn't until he got
on film that it really clicked for him and other
people they're just their styles have to meet what's going on.
But ton of us are just not that good and
not me.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I'm great.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
What's funny? You are great.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I'm a great actor. And by the way, my greatest role,
my greatest role is the pre ride film of Throwing
Over California. I was just in with Thomas Lennon, who
couldn't stop talking about that's so great.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
To be etched in the history of Disneyland is the
greatest thing ever. And that I could do that for.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You makes me very fantastic. I had a call regularly,
at least once every two weeks. So great, So I said,
do you know that you're in I said, yeah, I
do know that I'm in it. I'm glad that you're
watching it. It's but thank you for calling me, and
that way, like on a fluke you called, you said, yeah,
just I.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Was going down. I wanted just people. I like to
be around. I didn't want if I go out and
find an actor, then I have to be nervous and
awkward and make sure they're fine and make conversation. But
I could have you there and it would be fun
when we would do this. I knew it didn't require
great things. You had a smile and make a face
and be funny, and that's you.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
So he's you were a great high school actor. But
you didn't think I'm going to be an actor.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I went to college. I was a theater major. I
was like, oh, I'm going to be an actor, because
I'm going to be I didn't know. You don't know
what a director even is at seventeen. So I started
directing plays in college, and I was much better at
that than acting in the place.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Why do you think? How did I know or why
was that a better fit? Why was directing a play
because I was directing the play when I was acting
in it. I would be on stage thinking about which
side of the audience is laughing more, where the light
is is the actor standing in it? Should I get
this other actress to stand closer to me so that
(12:26):
they can see her?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's cold why do we have a call? That's where
I was. Actors who are great that in the moment
thing and they get lost in the role. That's a
real thing. I could never do it. I was always
aware of what was going on around me. You're doing
it wrong part of me. And that makes her a
bad actor but a very good director.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
How quickly did Harvey Kiteell not trust you as a director?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
We had the greatest time. Harvey Kaititell is so much
fun and it was shocking. I was nervous, intimidated it.
That didn't last long. It's funny. There are two kinds
of horribly scary actors to work with. Those who are
just difficult and famous right all the time, and those
(13:14):
who get bad when something goes wrong. The ones who
are both are very complicated. The ones who are just
a pain in the neck the whole time, you don't
want to work with them. But the ones who just
become difficult if anything goes wrong, you find a way
to manage that, right.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
But I mean, something always goes wrong at some point.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
When when someone comes up to me on the set
and they're very sheepish and they're giving me some really
bad news and something's gone wrong. I've said to them,
you don't understand if it's not my fault. I'm fine
because all I can do now is be a hero.
You're giving me an opportunity to save the day. If
(13:58):
you're coming up to me telling me something I did wrong,
I'm devastating.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Don't be alone with Jgico.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Well, here's my question that I wanted you to help
me solve, which is this. I want to figure out
how to look at my career, my storied, award winning
career as a writer, and place all the things I
haven't done in it and the things that are disappointing
(14:41):
I have disappointed myself by not doing and where I
put that in So like, in other words, how do
I define myself as a writer, as a father, but
mostly my professional career as a writer, and as a
producer and as a sometimes director, sometimes actor. What do
I do to sort of place myself in the pantheon
(15:04):
of people, many of whom I love, who are much
much more successful, some of whom I love were less successful.
But my expectations of me was to be way up here,
and I'm like here.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
The first thing is to ask shorter questions that went
on a long time. Uh huh. So if you can
just basically, in like twelve or fourteen words, ask a question, right,
that would.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Be much easy. Well, the blank look on your face
the whole time made me think I had to.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Keep going thinking of a philosophical depth and emotional and
psychological stuff. Are you asking, yes, me to tell you
where you stand in the pantheon? I?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
No, I'm asking this because we both grew up with
fathers who are writers.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And we both grew up in show business.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And we may have had because of that, we may
have had expectations of what it's like to be in
show business and what success looks like. Yes. So if
I came from some you know, the middle of of
Ohio and with no expectations, I might at this point think,
Jake Cogan, I can't believe you've done the things you've done.
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay, So are you here's a good question. Was that
expectation about what you would achieve?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Or yes?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Or get to the point where you got that feeling
the feeling of being in the mix in one of
those guys.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, it's what I would achieve. In other words, when
I thought, when I was a kid. By the time
I'm thirty, I better have won an Academy Award for
directing a movie.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay, well that's mad because I knew you then you're
an idiot. Right, that's a stupid expectation.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
But I thought it and I know it was possible,
but I didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Okay, you didn't care yourself as that person.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Though, Right, But I knew its possible.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It was possible, and it could have happened. Right, Like, Look,
it's all of us. We had a lot of our
parents and other white privilegy things that happened with us.
They're all miracles. Every job in show businesses is a miracle.
There's so many ways for it to not happen. Right,
you were on a small thing on Tracy Ullman. It's
(17:08):
by the luck that the Simpsons did a cartoon on
that show.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Right, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So that's like a crazy weird thing. So you're connected
to the Simpsons and that pulls you into that. Now
you have the opportunity to show yourself that you were
worthy of that, and people around you thought, oh, Jay's
really good. His partner's better that he's good. Right, So
let's hire him. But that show could have been canceled
after six weeks and then nothing.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
We thought it would be sure. I mean, but the
Tracy Almond Show actually was the bigger deal at the time.
Tracy Aumenshow was an Emmy Award winning Jim Brooks thing.
It was like a much bigger deal that the cartoon
was the thing that everybody said, don't do the cartoon
was like, that's the mistake.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
This is all about how you frame things. That's right, right,
So we can frame things in light of what did
our parents achieve? Right, Okay, you've already achieved more than
your father, Yes, or no?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I would career wise, maybe maybe, I think that's up
for debate.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
How many Emmys did he win?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
He won three?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay, how many of you won? Well?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Four?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, So there you go. That's all done.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
That's done the Scorecar.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Are you funnier than your dad?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I don't think so. I'm a more serious writer than
my dad, and that could be a victory.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, And you're a great writer. And he was never
on a ride of this wanting to win, that's true.
Wanting to win an Oscar by thirty is fine. Thinking
you're going to is the issue of growing up with
successful parents, right that you set an no real expectation.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
But I'm now I'm sixty and I'm still thinking, well maybe,
and that's kind of goofy too.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Do you like who you are.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Seventy percent?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Would you like yourself more if you won an Academy award?
I'd like my career more maybe, But you wouldn't be happier. No,
it's true, I wouldn't like myself more, but I'd like
my career so own that. Yeah, realize you're good, you
like yourself, you came to a good place, You've had
a good life, you did great. You'd be more, you'd
(19:07):
have more to show from your career. But in terms
of awards. But are you saying I would have loved
to win an Oscar because it's great to win an Oscar?
Or are you saying I wish I had written something
worthy of an Oscar?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
A little bit of both. I guess I don't really
believe oscars are the demarcation of what's worthy truly. I
like the I guess the large ass what people associate
with it to be reflected on me, as opposed to
the fact of, you know, I think one favorite movies
(19:40):
have nothing to do with Oscar.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I feel the same as you and that I'd love
to have that label right right because I know what
that label meant to me. Now that I know what
that label actually means, and now that we're in a
point where I'm kind of thinking, in ten years, they
won't even be oscars. In another conversation, I also started
doing the following of thinking, Hmmm, I've done enough to
(20:06):
feel good about myself. I didn't do the things as
great as I wanted to, but I'm understanding why and
the choices I made. What did what didn't you do?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Is great?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
The kind of movie was an Oscar to be more
famous as a director, to be on that, you know,
just sort of at the top of those big, big paychecks.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
But your Howard dream about your career is Howard Hawk's.
Your career is like a guy who's made a ton
of different movies and a ton of different genres, popcorn
movies that people loved.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
That's really nice and to say, and I never thought
it until about a few years ago. Someone looked me
in the eye and said, John, you're a really successful director.
And this person was in a show business or in
person was.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It Liam Neeson?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, and it Uncle Liam, and it It actually sat
with me and I went, you know what, just take
that in, yeah, believe him, and spend the rest of
your life thinking, oh, you succeeded great. And so my
ambitions and feeling empty started going away, and I realized
(21:16):
I don't need to get anywhere. I'm there.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Who in us growing up or the kids we knew,
We've known each other since we were very young. We
had mutual friends with the Lawrences, and your dad was
friends with them. My dad was friends with it, and
we sort of we hung out a little bit as kids,
more as adults than as kids. Yes, and uh and
but always not interesting. I always said that guy John
totally interesting kid.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I felt interesting kids funny. But I don't see him
very much. And you know, but he's kid. He's a
son of my parents' friends exactly, not my friend.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Right. There were guys we grew up with where we knew,
who were also in this world, who I think were
waylaid by the idea of their parents being show business
and them not being successful. What do you what can
we draw from that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
A lot of those people loved the accouterment of success
and were usually given a lot more of it than
we were. They saw themselves as good at it before
they proved to themselves they were actually good at it.
(22:24):
I think a lot of them did not have a
lot of talent and did not have a lot of
depth to the reasons why they wanted to do it.
It looked good to them, but they didn't love it.
You love what you do for a living. I do.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I do. I love I loved making shows. And if
somebody said your job was to be like this third
assistant editor to make shows, I do that, like absolutely
be part of Whenever.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Someone said to you, you're gonna have to stay up
all night and sleep out in the colt to get
a show made, you'd look at them like, well, duh,
right right, yes, of course, of course, the way with
your baby, right so you know when you have kids,
you're not gonna go to the movies and you're gonna
have to stay up all night. You're looking at them like, yeah,
that's nothing. But there are a lot of people who
(23:17):
don't see it that way. They go, oh, I don't
really want to do that. Well, that person shouldn't be
doing this.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I don't think they are.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And that's who. I think a lot of those people are.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So when you were making three and Ninchs, which happened
to be I think the big crossover movie for you,
Big break, Big break, because you made this movie that
was a smaller movie that was really well done and
made a gazillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
It didn't make a gazillion, but it made a lot
more than expected.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
It was the most profitable movie in the year that
you made it of any movie made.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
That is true here. So what's the question? The question
in question so much luck, I can't even did you
I did not?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
That was just success. But did you feel like, oh,
this is this is really humming, this one's this one's
feeling good?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Nope. And I thought the script was but it was
a job and I saw where it could be good.
And as we made it and we're finishing it up,
we thought it was terrible, and other people told us
it was terrible. We were pretty sure it was terrible,
but we kept going. The editor quit towards the end.
(24:26):
He kind of could get another job. He's like, well,
I'm not staying on this turkey, and he left. We
just didn't know, and we had a screening and I
had a cousin who told another guy to come, and
that guy worked in acquisitions at Disney, and he made
that guy come. We weren't going to even have the screening.
(24:47):
It was the same week as the riots in Los Angeles.
The riots started that end of that week. So if they,
if we hadn't done it that night, all goes away.
So all these pieces of good fortune happen. And somehow
this guy saw it, loved it, and Disney bought the movie. Right,
it's crazy, right, So I don't know, never know going in.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Disney made your movie and they killed my movie.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Oh dear, that's true.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It's all right. The beginning in the Yang, the beginning
in the Yang. Yeah, so okay.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So's told the audience all about your Oh they know.
I mean.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
The Wrong Guy is a movie you can watch on
YouTube if you want to see it for free. It's
very funny. And Disney killed it. But that's fine. It's sorry.
It's still out there.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
They didn't ruin the movie, they just never released it.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
They yes, they stopped it and continue to stop it
from being seen on cable or things that would be
pay money.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
But it's they did such a good it's not even
a cult classic. Yeah, it's just nobody watches it, right, exactly,
nobody's made.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's not a cult classic. But it's a cult film
because four people have seen it. Correct, That's why it's
a cult film.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We're in a good cult.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yes, it's good. I have a question for you. But
producer Ryan has seen Cool Runnings many many, many many times.
So Cool Runnings? What drew you to it?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
After three ninches there was a buzz like, oh, who's that?
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Director?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Took a little, tiny, nothing film. So this little buzz
and I got sent some scripts. They were all in
Hollywood sort of, but the bottom of the barrel, because
that's where I was entering the room. And it's like
I got invited to the dance, but no one wanted
to dance with me. I got these scrips. They were
(26:27):
bad and not great. I don't know what this is,
right'd say maybe, and they wouldn't hire me. And my agent,
a man named David Lonner, who's been awesome because he's
honest with me. He said, John, remember how all summer
you were the flavor of the month. I said yeah.
He said, you're month's over.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Yeah, do a movie, right, So the best of the
ones out was a script called Blue Maga, the original
title of Core Runnings.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
But Disney never believed in that movie. Always thought it
was going to be terrible. They didn't want to make it,
but they had to contractually, and they were going to
bury it. And then they saw it and they all
and they all said it that, oh we blew it.
This is really good. And it was too late to
(27:18):
suddenly they missed a lot of the windows and all
that we opened I think in third place, and then
the second week we're in second place.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
That never happened.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
That never happens, and we just kept staying around and
the word of mouth was phenomenal. And that's look for
direct for me. Yeah, you want the studio to open
the movie. It's as much as can't. They can, but
you can give, for the most part, studio credit when
your movie opens big. But you get the credit if
(27:52):
it sticks around because people like it. And so that
that sticks around and.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
People love that movie. People talk by that all the time.
And John Candy was a great.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
He was as amazing a person and great as you
hope he was. That was the guy I've never been
that dorky around a big movie star. I met John
and I was just an idiot. I just this was
my hero, my idol and whatever. He would talk and
I'd go like, it's like I almost called him every time, Hi,
(28:27):
John Candy, would you like come here? Name John Candy.
When we first met, we had to go to wardrobe
and we talked about what kind of hat he would
wear it and he goes, I'm not wearing a hat.
I said, why are you wearing hat? And he's because
I look funny your hats. I said, no, look good,
and he goes, look and he went through and put
(28:47):
on about twelve different hats, did a funny thing in
each hat, looked ridiculous in every hat. He was right
and hilarious, and I just I was like, I just
got a one man show, private Leaf from John k Yeah,
the greatest, kind, funny.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
The best.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Don't be alone with Jo.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Talking about movies that last forever. I didn't know this
because I'm too old, But when you made the National
Treasure movies, I thought, oh, this is a good movie,
this is fun, this is good. But I've worked with
writers now on my staff who say, no, that's the
movie that changed my life. Like you know, you know
the director of National they don't give a shit about
(29:44):
anything else. They don't give it Steven Spielberg's number. They're
not interested in. They want to find out who directed
National Treasure? How did that become? Like like a generation's movie?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Like I think there are There are a lot of
people who helped make that movie a success, and I
it's the one movie where, even though a lot of
it was me listening to other people's advice, I was
the one who willed it into existence and got it
(30:17):
to what it was because and I'll say this for
all you directors out there listening and all you movie people,
it was on that movie that I learned that the
most important thing a director does, and maybe the only
important thing a director does, is tone. Tone is everything
(30:37):
to a movie, and it's that's the director's job. When
you are watching a movie, you love you, all of you.
You can remember that movie and what it felt like.
You know what that world of that movie was. That's
the tone. Yeah, okay, you're in it. The tone of
National Treasure was not only great, but no one else
(30:58):
understood it. No one wanted to make it because it
wasn't clear what the tone was. We were told no
and put off. So many times because it's a history movie.
History is boring, and you want to thought history wasn't
so boring. Certainly thought, as American history goes, the Revolutionary
War period is the most boring, right. Civil War love it,
(31:20):
World War two love it. Revolutionary War boring. And I
kept saying, you're wrong, You're wrong, You're wrong, because all
of these things are boring because your teacher was boring, right,
And I refuse to be a boring teacher. I'm going
to be the best history teacher you ever have. And
now people love that stuff because they had a non
boring teacher. One day, early like second day on the set,
(31:44):
Nick said to me, John, are we playing this real?
Are we playing this for comedy? And I said yes, right.
You looked at me odd. I said, there's no comedy
that's better than when it's real. Your character is real.
The comedy comes out of that realness of that character.
There might be some crazy stuff going on, but we
(32:08):
want to believe in these people as people and care
about them as people. Don't play the comedy, find the
joke right, play the person. He got it. He loved it.
The whole cast got it and loved it. But he
had it took time, and Jerry Brookheimer, the king of
the action movie, kept looking at me and he what
(32:30):
was great about Jerry? He would say, it's great if
it's funny, that's what you do. Go make it funny,
because he knows he can't make it funny, right right,
He wants it funny, so he hires people can make
it funny.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I worked on Kangaroo Jack. Yeah, I know how unfunny
Jerry Bruckheimer movie could be.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
So there was something in the tone and the willingness
to combine classic elements. See. The thing I think National
Try and while You're Sleeping and co Runnings have is
the thing that's been in my way a lot of
the time, and it's the thing that has given me
my success is trying to make movies that are timeless
(33:12):
and classical. They draw on the permanent, wonderful things that
movies have to offer. It's not the same as cliche,
but it's cliche adjacent. Okay, right, what are those things?
Happy endings, Okay, satisfying endings, cathartic friendships, love romance, but
(33:37):
humor that elevates. There's very little darkness in my films,
and I think darkness that's a problem I've had troubled
with darkness. That's why I get bad reviews. Reviewers love darkness.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
When I see a movie. I'm bad at it.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
There's a little darkness in nomen on. There's a little
darkness and something you know.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
That's conflict and that's worry. But uh, you know some
of the like Paul Thomas Anderson movie or David Russell movie,
you're you're living in that darkness in a lot of
ways and staying there and mining that stuff. That's not
(34:22):
something I'm great at. I wish you were all right.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, now I have a question.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Time is question?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Did you hear that? That means it's question time?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (34:38):
These are questions that people wrote in specifically for you.
No way they did. Okay, here's the here's the first question.
What's his favorite creative experience and in what capacity was
he helping to create? Let me read this again. What
was his favorite creative experience?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
An idiot?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
And in what capacity was he helping to create during
this experience?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Most creative experience might have been up with this way.
The movie I enjoyed making and felt very creative was
Last Vegas. It was a movie with huge star actors
Michael Douglas, Morgan Freeman, Kevin Klein and Robert de Niro
(35:21):
and Mary stein Bergen. They were delightful. They were amazing
and every day that you're doing stuff, they're making it better,
so it feel you feel lighter and you feel open
to contribute. It all went smoothly, and I think the
result was terrific, and so I would say Last Vegas
(35:41):
is certainly the most enjoyable experience that felt creative.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Did this guys and Mary Steamer? Did they socialize? Were
they hanging out?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Would some of them? Some not? That's you're learning all
this because look everything Robert de Niro sat by himself
most of the time. I like to talk. They're all different.
Some like to talk to me. Even that was amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Did de Niro come to you with like his head
cocked this at an angle and think what are you doing?
Like any of that kind of stuff?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
He talked to me. If we talked about the scenes
right first day of shooting, we get to the set
is a huge shot. Robert de Niro's walking into a
casino right, a lot of extras. Everyone's supposed to be
there six in the morning. We all get there. No
de Niro six thirty, No de Niro seven o'clock, No DeNiro.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
That sounds like could cost a lot of denarro.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
We have to scrap the shot and we move on. Now.
We can't handle this every day. We can't tolerate that.
That's not gonna work. And the producers look at me
and go, wow, somebody better talk to him. I'm like, whoa.
So I go to his trailer. He opens the door
and I said to him, good morning, mister de Niro. Right,
(36:58):
and I left.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Ah, that was it.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
That was all I had, right because in that moment,
I realized I'm gonna fight with him. Would I argue
with him? And he was late? He had a read
it'd be late or he didn't. But he's gonna be late,
and that's the way it is. And again, going back,
if I'm the person with super integrity, I could probably
have that conversation with him in a way. I'm not
that guy, and I can't be that guy all the time.
I'm me. So I decided I'll have fun with Robert
(37:23):
de Niro and will get along great. And if he's late,
he's late.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Talk about not being in conflict with your actors. How
does a guy like David o'russell scream at his actors
and then still they want to come work with him again.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
There are many directors like that, and they scream and
they're horrible to people, and yet the actors, but mostly
the crew people take the beating and they come back.
It's odd, it's weird. What it does is it means
the second film they do with them, they can't complain, right,
you knew what you were getting in, right, And someone
(37:57):
would say, well you shouldn't have to up with that
to have a job, Well you should if it's the
second time, right, that's part of that job. They don't
come back if the movie that they got yelled at
on was a failure, they tend to come back to
be part of success.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I guess the Lily Tomlin who had very famous screaming match,
I don't think she's worked a lot with the David
to wrestle since. I heart huckabees a.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Very strong feeling about the following. Christian Bale recorded screaming
and yelling at a DP. Right. People sent that tape around,
look a horrible, how horrible? How horrible? Someone played it
for me and they said, what do you think of this,
and I said, honestly, it sounds to me like a Tuesday, right.
That's a set occurrence that happens on set, right, And
(38:46):
I guarantee you everyone involved in that was fine. What
offended me was that it got out that the movie
set was in a safe space, and that the person
who recorded that was not supposed to be recording that
and certainly was not supposed to be sending that to
other people. That I found very offensive.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Here's another question, ask John Turtletub if you ever considered
changing his name.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yes, you did in kindergarten. First of all, it's been
brutal having a horrible name, and it. Larry David came
up to me two years ago said I'm doing John,
I'm doing a show and I need a character have
a horrible, horrible name. Can I use your name? He's sure,
(39:34):
Larry David, go ahead. My father had changed his name
also for a while when he was trying to be
a stand up comedian. So for about four years in
his life, sault turtle Tub was actually Stan Taylor.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Wow, I did not know ye.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
There are people in my whole life who still called
him stand because they knew him from that time, so
I thought about it, but when I realized, no, if
my dad never did, and I can do it, and
I want to honor that, so I'm gonna stick with it.
But it's a pain in the next spelling it over
and over again.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
No, you have the Jake Hogan.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
No, I have to write out turtleteb plenty of times.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Oh that right, But for you, you're just a kog
and they.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Can't spell it. It's not a horrible name, but then
nobody can spell it. It's fine. What's the one scene
from a movie that you truly love but had to
cut because it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
No, I don't know if this is the most but
I was actually thinking about this the other day. There
is a scene not in a movie I made called
The Kid officially Disney's The Kid, because nothing could have
been worse. And there's a what I thought was a
really funny scene with Bruce Willis and Matthew Perry making
(40:52):
a cameo appearance in as like full on mustache and
beard and long hair and was unrecognizable as and he
was really funny, and it was there because it was funny.
It was not helping the plot move along and out
it went, and I always felt it's a shame that
(41:14):
wasn't there, and I felt bad for Matt that he
did me the favor of showing up and doing all
this and I had to throw it out.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
What's the scene you wish you could do over again? Oh?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
That was came out bad, and I was like, God,
I blew that scene and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Come up back. It's like, oh, we got so close,
so we ran out of time, or with they got.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
There so many I actually think you mentioned while you
were sleeping the final scene where she confesses Sandy's great.
I think that scene could have been much much better,
and I didn't know how to quite get it there.
It shot flat, weird color to it. She brings everything,
and yet that scene should have brought the audience to
(41:55):
tears and didn't. And it's my fault.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
And I'm not sure why I remember hating that scene
in the movie. Yes, I didn't hate it.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It was great. It was fine. It's in the movie. Yeah,
it works.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
The last thing that there's a there's a theme for
which is moment of joy. So you listen to a
moment of.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Joy, a moment of joy.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
So moment of joy. What's the thing that you do
that gives you joy that maybe I could do or
our listeners could do.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Playing music in a band okay, when you're in a band.
When I'm playing in a band, I play keyboards. When
you're with a band and you make you all play
together in the song, it's the greatest feeling. You're with
your people. You like you're creating something and it takes
all of you to create that. You feel like a
rock star and it just sounds. You can listen to
(42:51):
the thing you're creating and enjoy the thing you're creating.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Right while it's happened.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
While it's happening, it's rare. You make us paint you know,
you paint ating and go, I'm so moved. Right music,
you listen to it and you can enjoy the thing
you're even so, I would say being part of a.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Band, do you get a chance to jam a lot?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I actually do a little bit in a great way.
My daughter's elementary school, which was my son's elementary school,
has a parent band okay, and it's teachers and parents,
small five to six people, and every Friday there's a
school assembly where we play in the kids dance two
songs and it's on a theme. Okay, So it's just
(43:35):
the five, six, maybe seven of us. And when you
play together it's really fun.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
You rehearse your songs.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
We used to rehearse more, now less. But in this
band there have been over the years ridiculously amazing musicians.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Who's like the best of the best to the cream
of the crib.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
A guy named Chris Cheney, who is the bass player
for was on Atlantis, Morrisset's albums and Shakira's albums and
all and is part of Jane's addiction. Okay, And when
you're playing with someone like that, you realize, oh, that's
a thing. That's a very very different thing being.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
A professional great bass player.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's all the things that they do well that you like.
It's not even the virtuosity. It's the ability to create
and move and guide and all of these things that
you don't realize is so important and how easy it is. Right.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
It's also and I'll say something that I don't know
at all what it means, but I've heard people say
it's what they don't play, not just what they play.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Right, that's a cliche and talking that's really stupid. We
should try it. It's what you don't say in this podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Okay, all right, Well, I'm thinking about something about my
friend John. I'm not saying it interesting. Interesting. Well John,
thank you for being here. This is I'm wrapping up
this help.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I need to come back. Okay, I need a podcast
of my own and about you. Tell me something, tell
me something deep about me, about me that you've observed
in our deep friendship for many years that I don't
You don't think I know enough, or you don't think
I believe. I think you have the ability to fix problems,
(45:19):
your ability to love people, and your ability to make
people feel good about themselves, and this tolerance you have
and your extraordinary intelligence. You would be of great value
to people. And yet you don't have a charity. You
don't have a thing that's your thing. You don't volunteer
at the Place to change lives. And I think that's
(45:40):
a waste.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Fair, that's fair. I don't. I don't do. I don't
have a specific charity that I champion anymore. I used
to have a few. I got bogged down in the
world of charity. I got bogged down in administrative bullshit
that really made me like.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Ah, awful. This happens all the time.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
Awful. It is like I don't need I don't need
that kind of stuff. I do, like I teach at
usc but it's okay, Like it's not really changing the
world or offering something. It's not really fixing anything exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Right, you're also teaching at UCLA. You're not teaching Uscipia.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Although I went with you when he did.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
We did go to try and teach a film school. Yes,
in Rwanda, they still talk about it.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
That was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I'm going there in two days back to.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
That same film school. Yes, Oh fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
And I went uh last summer bro Will Ferrell last summer. Right,
they were much more excited to see him than me.
I'm at a crossroads where I am stuck in terms
of charity and do gooderness. I'm sixty one and the sad,
horrible thing to say I'm gonna say, which is I'm
tired of all of it not making a difference.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Right, But you're asking me to join in.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
With you, correct and figure because I think you could
probably find a way to make that different. Now, doing
the good thing does fulfill you. It's great people like
you and it does help certain specific people. But if
you think the system is bad and the conditions upon
which these things happen, it is unbearably difficult to actually
(47:17):
change things. Yeah, and I'm getting really sick of not changing.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
It is hard to want to make a change and
seeing even being satisfied with incremental change or very little
change is very hard. Is very hard.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
See if you see someone buried in a pile of manure,
and you are a good person, and you know that
person needs to live and what's down there needs to
be saved, it's hard to get a shovel and pull
out all that manure. But you will stop doing it
when you see there are other people putting manure in.
(47:53):
That's true, and that's the situation our country's in right now.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
It's hard. It's hard, but I have more I think
I have more optimism at this moment than you do.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I'm still trying to find the thing that I am
still looking for what it is that I can actually
do and make that change.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Right, We'll find it. You'll figure it out, okay. In
the meantime, John Turtletob, thank you for being here. I
love you. I really appreciate you coming to do this.
Not something you necessarily want to do on a Wednesday.
So thanks. Driving out from wherever the hell the west
side to the east side is terrible, it's a nightmare.
Forgive me, but thank you for being here. You're a
(48:29):
very talented, lovely person. And I'm thrilled that our fathers
were mutual acquaintances when we were kids so that we
could be friends now as adults.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Thank you. And I'll say this about you. You are
one of those people who when you say thank you
and I love you, the person hears it, Oh, so
thank you, well.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
I love you. There you go and I love you.
Are you hearing that? People? Thank you for being a
part of the show. Please write to me at Dbawjka
at gmail dot com with all your questions complaints, But
for God's sake, subscribe to this show. Like this show.
Tell your friends about this show. That's all I care about.
That's any That's it. That's the one thing. And please
(49:09):
don't be alone. Go have a conversation with somebody else,
face to face, somebody you care about, a good friend
like I have right here. It'd do you good. All right,
Bye bye?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Don't be alone with j Cogain
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