June 24, 2025 • 49 mins
Film-Makers Justin Graves and Byron Manuel talk about what it takes to make movies in 2025 being young, talented, and black. They talk about finding the dream of movies and giving up the dreams of music and sport. They talk about doing what it takes on a budget, fundraising, festivals, developing a ton of projects, and getting their movie “Swoon” on Tubi. They also talk about being able to handle the gut punches that the business offers and keeping your spirits high.
Bio: Justin Antuan Graves was born Nov 17, 1984. He is an American writer and producer. Born in Beaufort, South Carolina. A military brat his whole life, he moved around a lot and found comfort in watching movies and cartoons all day as a child, especially comedies. Everything from Honey, I Shrunk The Kids to Friday to Superbad and beyond gave him the passion and confidence to begin writing. Justin started his first screenplay in 2016 and in 2018 he made the move from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angeles to pursue a career as a screenwriter. With no network, he made his own short films and content that eventually led to becoming a writer for comedians and influencers online such as Juhan Jones, Virgil Harris and Kassandra Lee. Justin is best known for What Had Happened Was (2020), Booty Call Chronicles (2019) and most recently Swoon (2025) and Allure (2025). Justin is Co-President of On Script Pictures and is currently building a Hard R Comedy Film and TV slate with his partner Byron Manuel.
Byron Manuel is a Writer, Producer, Director, and Filmmaker from Los Angeles. He expresses his passion for storytelling through a unique lens. Byron got his start on critically acclaimed shows such as Showtime's "Kidding", HBO's "Euphoria", Disney's "KC Undercover", and "Run The World" on Starz, while simultaneously carving out his own lane as an Indie Filmmaker.
Bio: Justin Antuan Graves was born Nov 17, 1984. He is an American writer and producer. Born in Beaufort, South Carolina. A military brat his whole life, he moved around a lot and found comfort in watching movies and cartoons all day as a child, especially comedies. Everything from Honey, I Shrunk The Kids to Friday to Superbad and beyond gave him the passion and confidence to begin writing. Justin started his first screenplay in 2016 and in 2018 he made the move from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angeles to pursue a career as a screenwriter. With no network, he made his own short films and content that eventually led to becoming a writer for comedians and influencers online such as Juhan Jones, Virgil Harris and Kassandra Lee. Justin is best known for What Had Happened Was (2020), Booty Call Chronicles (2019) and most recently Swoon (2025) and Allure (2025). Justin is Co-President of On Script Pictures and is currently building a Hard R Comedy Film and TV slate with his partner Byron Manuel.
Byron Manuel is a Writer, Producer, Director, and Filmmaker from Los Angeles. He expresses his passion for storytelling through a unique lens. Byron got his start on critically acclaimed shows such as Showtime's "Kidding", HBO's "Euphoria", Disney's "KC Undercover", and "Run The World" on Starz, while simultaneously carving out his own lane as an Indie Filmmaker.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Justin Graves.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Byron Manuel and this is Don't Be Alone with.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Jake Cogin exactly. That's why I brought in.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Don't Be Alone with JJ Cogan.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Welcome to Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. I'm glad
you're here. Thank you for being here. And I really
appreciate all the emails that come to me at dbawjk
at gmail dot com. That is a great way to
reach me. It's a great way to tell me your
viewer mail their suggestion for questions that I ask my
guests each week. It's a great way to tell me
(00:38):
compliments on my blue shirt and my hat, or criticisms
of my blue shirt and my hat, or anything else
you want to tell me. I will respond to you
as soon as I get that email. Also, if you
have the opportunity, why don't you subscribe to this show
on whatever you're listening to, especially if it's if it's
the YouTube. Would you get to see the show, not
(00:59):
just hear it, but subscribe. Press the subscribe button, press
the like button, press the whatever buttons you have there
to just say that you exist and you like the show.
That does me a world of good and the other
thing that does me a world of good. If you
like the show, if you really like the show, or
if you think there's a particular episode of particular interest
to a friend, send it to them, share it. Most
(01:20):
of us get our shows and our content from recommendations
from friends, So recommend the show. That's the greatest honor.
We have a great show for you today. It's been
years in the making. I have two filmmakers I was
gonna say young, but they're fine. They're younger than me.
That makes them young. Byron Manuel and Justin Graves are
(01:44):
two filmmakers, writer directors who are here because they are
going to talk about how to make movies in twenty
twenty five, which is different than how I've made movies
in two and well two thousand, or nineteen eighty seven
or nineteen ninety seven or what you know. Now, it's
(02:07):
kind of do it yourself. We have to no longer
rely on the big movie companies because they make way
less movies, and the movies they make are superhero movies
that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. And if you're
not in that business, then you can't be in their
movie business. But there's lots of movies out there that
are not about that, and so it's gonna be exciting
to hear their version of what they go through. These
(02:30):
guys will tell me how they do it and how
it's done these days, and I think that's gonna be invigorating.
I think it's going to be interesting. They're also really
funny guys, great writers, great people, and I think you're
gonna like them as much as I do. And we'll
be right back with Byron Manuel and Justin Graves right
after this.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Don't be alone with j J.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
How have you guys been all right? Congratulations on Swoon?
Than what has been the reaction of this movie?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Man?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It's been good, pretty pretty solid reviews, a lot of
a lot of love, a lot of love coming through.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Okay, have we been scared by Swoon.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
A little bit? In the process creating?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
How did you raise the money for that movie?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Man?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That was a journey? We raised it like group funding?
I guess maybe sort of likely? Uh asked everybody we knew, Okay, pretty.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Much beg for money.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Funding and begging is the same thing. Yeah, group funding? Yeah, Sharon,
I met you because I knew Justin. Justin I met
while ago. He had some really cool ideas about movies
and stuff that said, know, this guy's got some some
good ideas. And then he introduced me to you, and
you've been around. You sort of helped me with my
son's stuff and videos like also. But one of the
(04:00):
reasons you guys are here is I see when I
asked about funding and stuff, is that you guys are
are working the system. You guys are trying to get
it all done and trying sort of like get them.
Hollywood is not easy. It's gotten harder harder since you
(04:20):
guys started, it has not got easier, It's gotten harder.
So I want to know because I'm a lazy, rich
white guy, you know, like you're like that I should be.
This show is all about don't be one with Jay cooked.
It's all about me fixing my problems. I don't care
about you guys at all. It's about me, Holly hook
them over bit exactly. You got to give something right,
(04:41):
and so I want to know where I can improve
my game. I want to know how I can get
things going these days. You guys are have how many
projects do you have in the works right now?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Man? Over fifteen?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Right yeah, so fifteen projects in the works.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's amazing, slate.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Slate's kind of deep and so you just you finished Swoon.
What else? What else is anything being filmed right now?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Not yet, hopefully soon writing something.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
That how many? How many finished scripts?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Oh? Man, We've got over ten finished scripts for sure.
Because we also we also work with other people in
our circle and our team and our collective, so we've
we've taken on like an acquisition's arm, or we'll pick
up some scripts from some of the.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Homies acquisitions are. See this is the I have no
acquisitions on there's nothing, it's just me. So you guys
have have corporate names, you have acquisition arms like this
very official. When I talked to you and looked down
your list, it's like, you know, you have very official
titles and all kinds of stuff. You know. I'm just
(05:49):
I'm just trying to get movies made. If I wanted
to give a movie to you, you could acquire it.
Your acquisitions aren't could acquire my project. Yeah, and you
are would be blessed.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We can bless you.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And then but this is all done with like LLCs
and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And you know, yeah, well, I mean we're operating operating
legal businesses at the moment, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Okay, I mean that's like that's so far beyond me,
like I.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Have, I think like for you though, also it's like,
I mean your era and you're where you are, you've
almost leveled past that. I think when you mentioned things
like it's harder now, it's harder from the degree for
us that we have to think a lot more like
the system because we can't get in the system, so
we have to become the system. And what's the system doing?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
So and tell me what the system? What does the
system look like now?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
For both of you, Like when we look out there,
we don't see a lot of opportunity. So the business
is changing everybody. We were just talking about this earlier,
like a lot of the relationships that we had in
great places where we thought we can get in have
been fired go. So for us, it's always just kind
of looked like.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Hustle coincidentally fired or because they were friends of yours. No, No,
I think I don't know what I'm getting.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
But pretty much, and I don't know. The way I'm
looking at things is like Jay, you're pretty much set up,
You're you're good you was in the you was in
the Hollywood system and writing and getting in your writer's room,
and you got the residuals the old school deals like
you're pretty much set up, but I want to I
want to work now, and there's it's hard for me now.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
It's still hard for me now because it's sort of like,
you know what, I have been lucky enough to be
a producer on some of the things that you guys
were on, and I try to get things pushed through
to other people. It's hard. It is hard.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
No, it's super hard. I think like it is tough,
you know, even even for you, because I think that's
what we noticed was like when we started looking at
people we thought were like legendary or icons or and
then you look and you see like they're not at
the level we believe you guys should be at r
are because you're still hustling, you're still working.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Everybody gets told no. Everybody gets told like Steven Spielberg
gets told noctly he does, and every now and then
he gets told no. So it's like, because everything is
now very corporatized, and everything is about bottom line money.
It's not about art, it's not about what's cool. It's
not about somebody taking a flyer and say like, I
love this idea and I'm going to see it through.
It's about prove to me your you know, the surveys
(08:23):
that say that I'm investing this money, I'm going to
get my money back. It's a different kind of system
it is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So how do you prove your worth.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
To A the funders and b the You know, when
you make a movie, then you know that's proof, the
proof of concept is already in the movie you've made,
and then selling that to distributors and try to get
a deal that you don't get ripped off on.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
And bottom line, the hustle is putting in the work,
making yourself an asset not a liability, and not being
a dickhead and going from there.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
See that's my problem. I'm lazy and a dickhead. So
those two things are really standing in my way.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, okay, But.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Because everything's relationship, you know, when you think about it,
it's like everybody. There's some power shift that we've seen
as far as like creatives and like non creative people
normally have been telling creative people what to do. Creative
people have been so marginalized and separated and pushed out
by the system that we're now finding our own value
in ourselves and our relationships. So it's like Justin's a writer,
(09:21):
I'm a director, write this, I'll direct it. We'll get
a producer friend to produce it, and you just start
using your network, you know, in ways that we've kind
of seen people like Isa Ray have done traveled this
route before. So we've seen a couple of people make
it indie right, and we just tried to adopt those principles.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I mean making it now is kind of the answer
like if you have to make it, and then say,
can do you want to sell it? Okay, so Swoon
if you're willing to talk some details about Swoon, so
Swoon cost roughly what did you have to raise to
make it?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
We did Swoon roughly around we haven't been putting out
the exact numbers yet, but it's around like a hundred K.
So we did it extremely low right budget. I don't
like to use low budget though, because I don't feel
like our work resembled low budget. So it was like
a cost efficient film is what we.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Did, right.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, that basically asked people to work for free and.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
A couple of free about nine percent of people got
some dollars.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Right, okay, and then the whoever put up that money,
which is probably some some of it's yours and some
of its other people. When do you expect to recoup
some of that?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Man? It's taken us about about a about a year
and a couple of months. Yeah, about a year and
a couple of months. It took. We wanted to move
a lot faster, but we ended up going into the
festival circuit. Right in the festival circuit, it took. It
added a lot more time.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Slow, it's slow, but you need to get there in
order to get hype to get to people.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And it worked. It worked.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Do you need the festival like that?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, what do you think you need the hype? So
how are you going to get the hype? If you
have a different way to get the hype other than
the festival circuit, then go for it. Sometimes it's the star.
Sometimes it's the subject matter that's controversial or something like that.
Sometimes it's you know, the some other some other piece
of the movie, a song, something that's in it that
(11:20):
that's getting people's attention. And if you have none of
those things, then the festival circuit is a good way
to go because otherwise, I mean, you have this movie
that's off people's radar, and even if you got it
in front of a studio or a distributor, they're not
going to know what it is exactly unless there's other
(11:41):
They want the safety of other people saying this is good.
I think. I mean, that's just which I know people
who are now making TV shows pilot, you know, just
making it themselves and just saying, okay, this is my pilot.
It's not waiting for a studio to pick it up,
just making it and just saying this is what it is.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I think that's the to do it at this point.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
But you see how criminal it is, Like like they've
taken a business that they used to say, well, we'll
pay you for your time and your efforts. We'll make
these prototypes that we will all share profits. And now
we're funneling that out to private citizens to just make
their own thing, and then we'll in success, we'll swoop up,
swoop in and take that money.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Then we'll get by taking your money.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
From our pov. It's like I got you know, we
never we never even got to experience it. How you
were able to experience and get some of that money
in development or earlier on time, or consistently throughout the years.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Let me just tell you you don't feel so bad.
It was sweet. Yeah, it was so good. It was
so fantastic. Oh my god, Oh it was better than
you can possibly imagine.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Just go in the room and like and then they
give you money for the idea and be like, hey, yeah,
that sounds good, right, exactly, wish dollars for a screen.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yet we're just going to pay you a certain amount
of money just to hang around when you pitch us
and stuff.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
That's what my development. Can we go back to them
to charge? Who's in charge? Tell them, let's let's running back. Yeah,
let's spend the block. Let's try it the old fashion.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I want to make it up to you guys. So
I got you, but a little something sort of make
up for the system. Oh Jesus for both of you.
Yeah that Jesus, damn it, Jesus. Come on, I know,
I know it does make up for all the trouble
you guys have had.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
It is nice, but next time time, just can you
get to like the little the extra toasty on the edge.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I'll try and come on, j just consider considerate reparations
for now.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I'll take all.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Uh, So you're from South Carolina, so there's not a
lot of show business happening in South Carolina news, so like.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm pretty much now I think I think now they probably.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Everywhere but Angels has a studio. But I'm saying, like,
you know, I grew up here, so it seemed like
a viable job. It seemed like, oh, people I knew
their dads and moms were working in an industry. So
like deciding I'm going to do this from South Carolina
seems pretty brave to me.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It was.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
It wasn't the first thing I'm not gonna lie, but
I guess it came around twenty sixteen ish, I'm not
gonna lie. Donald Glover Atlanta dropped, right, Jordan Peel get
Out dropped, and super Bad.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Was kind of the influence for a while.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
But after seeing those films, I was like, Okay, they're
accepting different.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Types of stories from black folks.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
It's like there's different things that you can put in
there now, So I'm gonna go ahead and shoot my shot.
And I just kind of I always love films. They
always was kind of like an escape to get away.
So I was like, let me just shoot my shot
and see what I can do. It's been brewing for
a minute. So I ended up writing a script. They say, right,
but you know, I did a lot of research YouTube
to university that's that ship. And I finished the script
(15:05):
based on my life waiting tables, you know, the basic
ship right with, you know, and sent it to some people.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
They was like, hey man, it's pretty all right. Man,
I think you might can come.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
To l A and do a little something, and gave
me some feedback, and I was like, hm, hm, well,
you know what, fuck it, I'm I'm gonna go ahead
and do it and try. And I came out here
on a whim from South Carolina, didn't know anybody made
the networks, and slid.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
In some d M s and there you go.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
That's pretty much how I met both of y'all, sliding
this d M two just so just like somebody trying
to get me.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Hey, hey, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
What's going on?
Speaker 4 (15:41):
You know, got ego up a little bit there, you
know right.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Alone.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
You grew up here, right, okay, so you saw this
town at least you know it's got locky, it's got
you know, aerospace and has show business and there's probably
you know, there's a shipping port here. There's a lot
of things you could say, like how did show business
become the thing that you were aiming at?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And really growing up? I was more so on the
on the athlete side. I thought that was going to
be my path to school.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Oh no, oh way, nothings.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
None.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Those kind of things sounded like it was going to
be it. But my brother and my older brother came
home one day with a ton of music studio equipment
and was like, I'm going to start rapping. And so
when he was like I'm gonna start rapping, I just
started going into those creative sessions and being around that
environment and it kind of sparked something inside of me
that was like I feel like I want to do this.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
But how does rapping translate to movies?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, because we started I started writing music, so I
started storytelling immediately, and then I started picking up a
camera to film music video. I started managing talent within
some of the circles, and then you go out and
start doing marketing. So when you look at all the
components of it, coming from the storyteller part is what
I started just writing music, and then that developed into
(17:14):
once I didn't want to do music anymore, I used
to intern at Innerscope and Universal and went on this
whole journey. And when I was like I kind of
want to do something else, the next thing I thought
about was storytelling and TV and film.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Right, Okay, so let's again it's all about me. So
how do you keep because how do you keep your
energy up and your hopes up and this kind of stuff?
Because you keep getting swatted down and every now and
then it's time to go get up and write and
do that thing. And so like you know, you feel
(17:50):
like some days you're inspired and I have a really
great idea about this. So many days of thing am
I just writing this to be thrown away is now?
But going to read this, it's like there's a there's
a there's a you know a little bit of a
pall put on your on your heart and so like
the thing that drove you to be creative, it gets
(18:10):
hard after a while when you face rejection and just
thinking nobody's listening. So how do you keep your spirits up?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Man?
Speaker 4 (18:19):
But we both know the weeds coming. That is going
to happen whether you are spiritual up or spiritual.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Damn right, but.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Man it it just it excites me to keep writing,
to keep coming up with ideas. And even though you
know people be like, oh, well not this one, or
if this one gets turned down on whatever, I know
it's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Somebody else will pick that ship up.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
It's fine, we'll leave it on the back burn and
we'll put it on the shelf and work on something new.
But at the same time, like when you're writing something
or working on something, you're you're thinking about the next
thing anyway, just because other ship pops up all the time.
So it's like a never adult moment. I don't know
what this name, man right, Writing and making movies is
pretty much the ship. It's you. It's all we pretty
(19:05):
much want to do.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think what we've been able to do in keeping
our spirits up is collaboration. Like if I were if
I were to look and give you advice with what
we're what we're doing is we lean on each other,
I would say, you definitely need some other guys in
your boat that support system that we've had as and
then starting to do things on our own, Like I
(19:27):
would look to you and be like, how are you
not making things? Like you can write a story? You know, directors,
you know, producers. You guys have some of your own
money too, you know, so in the sixth.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Rule, do not money, do not use your own money.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's what that system said. But I'll be honest, I've
lost no money.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
And understand, Ryan over here is a is an entrepreneur.
Not only does he run this organization, the straw Hut
Media Empire, but he also started producing movie.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
He's quite he looks like he's somebody. He looks like yeah.
On the same page, I was asking him about the camera.
He do everything that he's going on.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
He does know everything. This is his place. But he's
recently ventured into movie making. They just made it. This
has made a very interesting, great movie that's being edited
right now. And he'll be, you know, figuring out the
gauntlet how to get it sold?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Put in how did you guys use your money? Right?
Where'd you get some money.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
From some friends?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Fun?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Raising begging, yeah, yeah, excellent beg Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
But that's the thing. I was always the artist, the
pampered artist, and the business people kept me at arm's
length because they didn't want to me to know how
much dreamt that.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
But we got to get out on them.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
No. I mean there's a downside to it too, which
is they're making a lot of money off of you
and then not paying you what duo, and then you
have to figure out and fight for the money that
you're offered, that you're owed.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And we've looked at that too and gone, man, a
lot of our peers have been robbed grossly. If we
were to make a fraction of what that movie made
and split it correctly, then we would have all made
that amount of money too. So we don't even have
to hit the masses of audience to make money. You know,
we've we've we started on YouTube. We were making money
in ninety days.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
The business model of Swoon is you're gonna make it.
You're gonna sort of, as you said, hype it up
and then sell it to ideally. It's a streamer. It's
on a streamer.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Now, it's on right now.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
You can watch that. It's free.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
It's free.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You don't want to watch it. You could just press
play and let it run.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Laptops work the camera, the camera three your three laptops.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay, put it on your laptop and just let that
ship run. You got to watch it. We don't care.
I mean, we rather you would.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Watch it though it's good.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
You know, yeah, I left busy.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Do you get paid per view?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
What happens?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think we work off of impressions, So like a
million impressions could be like two grand okay something like that,
or a million is like.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
A sampling of time, not the whole thing. So like,
is that a minute? Is that thirty seconds?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I'm not sure they I don't know the legal charge
and legal jargon of an impression. My opinion of it
is you see the poster and maybe you click it
and you read it about it, or you watch a
piece of it or somehow it came across your screen.
But we don't get paid off the impression. We track
it off the impression, so it does get paid pert
watch review. So like one hour of time is worth
(22:41):
more than ten minutes of time, right, because they're also
running the ads right, Okay, It's almost like I imagine how
TV was so profitable before when you're running an ad
every every so often.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Well, in TV the old days, which is now the
new days, it's gone back to advertising sported you promised
the network or whoever was showing it said, I promise
you these amount of viewers will see your ad, and
then if they didn't deliver, they to give you free
ads later on to make up for the amount of
people who didn't see it until they know that, until
they get to the right number.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It also made me think about like distribution back three US,
what were the what was the theft like then?
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Because but there was so much money that the theft
was fine.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And go that's cool. WHOA there they were.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
They were making a ton, but they were also the
game was and the game could still be. I think
it's a good game for us is make ten movies
for a very reasonable amount of money. Ten for very
reasonable money, and if one of them hits, it's paying
for everything.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Model is more because of the sex the success we've
had with our previous projects. The only thing that's really
stopping us is enough cash flow to make more. And
once we fix that dropping five movies a year, ten
movies a year, and then through acquisitions, get up to ten, fifteen, twenty.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
That's that word a game you gotta throw.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We gotta get as many more.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
So so okay, so you're looking at me and I
had to put on cocause we got you look at me, say, Jay,
these are the things you gotta do to increase your hustle.
This is your old man, you're old coging, You're old,
you're out of touch, You're yesterday's news. This is what
you gotta do today. What advice do you have for
me right now?
Speaker 5 (24:46):
How's your social media presence? You're you're looking pretty good
on now. I say, well, I have a podcast. Is
that pretty good?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Goddamn it, that's good.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
I mean that's pretty good, all right, But your Instagram follows.
You got to get your followers up.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'm only like around ten thousands. Is that enough?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I think you might be good.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
That's that's that's ten thousands like on Twitter and ten
thousand threads, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Think you're growing. Also, I would say the network got
the like we watched we went through your uh, your
channel and looked at your guests, tons of legends, tons
of legends. I would say, where are some of the
new people that are doing some things right now that
maybe can funnel you some of their audiences that could
(25:29):
be you know, like, I think this was a brilliant move.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Maybe guys you got to get off.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I'll be honest. I was looking at the numbers. I
was like, I found the highest one. I was like,
I think we could beat this one.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
All right, he's cool.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Who you're going to beat the Conan Show? All right,
let's see how how many weeks?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
How many weeks?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I don't know. I don't know about the time, but
when we when, when it's done, and we'll put the
numbers together.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
And here's the problem with me getting young talented people
is I know very few young talented people. Like my
circle is my people I came up with, right, And
so it's like every now and then I meet cool
people and I try to be open and involved in this.
I teach school.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You do y'all should produce one of our films. Yeah,
and now you're popping. That's one thing. But I also think,
like I think, if you guys group together and start
having some meetings and talk about getting some things done,
and if you lose the idea of putting your money
up as a bad thing, like none of those companies
(26:38):
ever felt like putting their money up was a bad thing,
like they won they do now they do, But that
that's that's probably because like I'm used to getting a
billion dollars and getting four hundred million, Like I'm cool. Yeah,
that's my jab, Like that's you know, that's so different mentality.
But when you look at how much money is still
(26:59):
possible for the people who are watching the current state,
you go, man, you get two or three of your
people to put a script together, you get the talent,
you put together, you find some creative ways to find
some funding. You don't need a lot because you still
get the professional DP, you still get the professional gaffer.
It's less of a crew. All the cushy things that
(27:20):
you were using about union.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
I'm a union man.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I don't know what I'm not to.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Find the minimum the minimum union man.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
That's for show. I'm sure the union has probably been
good through history. So support the union for sure, but
find whatever their minimum is and find the amount to
make it.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I want to take care of my crew, but.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
You also can take care of them with some equity.
Like when you've seen Zendaya and David Washington, John David
Washington when they did Malcolm and Marie, they gave equity
to the.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Crew, right, I think everybody on three points or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I think they had one point and walked away with
a hundred k.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I thought it was like three hundred thousands because they
sold a three or something.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah, it was like they all got.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Three hundred thousand. You talk about like five people. Maybe
they shout.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's kind of the motto. Every paid everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Six grand for the location. Like we sometimes if we're shooting,
we're shooting so much that it's like, all right, maybe
I paid you a different day rate today, but I've
got this other gig that I'm not even a part
of that my friend is shooting three times the amount.
So when you look at the balance of it all,
you start being able to find survival and people are
(28:44):
getting paid well, and then when they do hit on
the back end, you've got a bonus you've never seen
that you can float on. So that that's kind of
how we're managing it to a degree, Like we we
try to get as many people paid, which is why
our stuff is so so our crews are so low.
But then we you know it, when it hits on
the back end, it's more money than most of us
have ever seen because we still never seen the height
(29:07):
of what you guys have seen, right, So it might
look a little funny to you guys at first, but
it's less of you. And then you're taking care of five, ten, fifteen,
twenty people in your crew like you guys could kill.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Does your family think you're crazy?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
For sure?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
For sure?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
All right, I'm not sure my family even knows what
I do. Still.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, my mom was like, well, are you still doing
the writing that?
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I'm proud of you?
Speaker 5 (29:29):
But you still got your job, right, like you still
getting paid for real, regular regular money. I was like, well,
my shit, I'm still yeah, but I'm making a little
bit of money with my ship too.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Don't don't act up.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
But yeah, she's happy, and uh, she she believes I'm crazy,
but she supports it.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I'll say that much. Hell right, my pops too. Okay,
that's good. And your family doesn't know you keep it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
A shit like No, I'm just like, I'm not sure
they even know like what it is that I actually do.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
But they have a general idea.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, they're just like, he's in, he's a writer. That's
the one that they can.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
They get to go to a Swoon premiere. Yeah yeah, okay,
then and now they know, Yeahoon.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Helped a lot. Yeah, I think Soon helped a lot
very Oh wow, so these things can come out, right,
they've been out on other stuff.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Some people thought I was lying for me. I was like, yeah,
this shit's coming out. It's gonna just wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Articles dropped they see what's up on.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
The ground, was like, well, where's the movie? Damn, hold
on it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
But yeah, we had some motion deadline dropped us too.
You know what I'm saying, do.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
You feel an obligation being African American to make African
American uh point of view movies or I mean I
get the feeling the stuff I've read of yours are
not They're just entertaining. They're they're entertainment first, but some
of them have to do thematically with being black or whatever,
(30:51):
So like is it where does that fit in? And
there over which, like how important is that?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
It's important?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
For sure, we have to you know, represent the culture,
and we are black men, so we're gonna tell stories
for black folks for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But it's it's stories for every fucking body, because well
that's the truth.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
You know what I mean that every story is for everybody.
You know what I'm saying, There's not there is no
there's like if if it's wrapped up a story wrapped
up in a particular culture is just a way to
present it. But I'm just saying that you have a
particular point of view, then you also an particular experience
that you come from, so you can talk about that
experience specifically, which is great, you know for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Due I think it's important, definitely. I think that we
don't think about it that often of like this is
what this view is. But I think because we've just
keep continuing to make things that comes up that it's like, oh,
this film is specifically this way because of this POV.
And then there's other times where it's just like we
could have got an idea from somebody else and we
(31:51):
just thought it was dope, and then we're like, well
we want to push that too.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Because I only make things for fat Jewish guys, I mean,
that's the only thing that is my content. First of all,
it's a good paying bunch.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
They're coming out to support excellent way.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So that's good.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
No.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
No, I mean I like as an artist, I like
to be able to tell a story from any point
of view that I think is interesting.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I remember, like the first time that I was saying
out loud that I'm a writer to other people in
the business and they were like, what kind And I
was like, what do you mean. They're like comedy or
drama and I'm like both. They're like, you got to
pick one, and I'm like, you gotta pick one. I'm like,
how limiting.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Used to be that less? So now if you're paying
for it yourself, absolutely you don't have to pick one.
You can do whatever you want, anytime you want.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, that's how we feel. We just want to tell
dope stories. To be honest, a lot of stuff is
going to be from our POV because it's like what
Justin said right with you know. So it's like two
thousand and three on a Tuesday when Ludacris just dropped
and my shirt was four X and my pants were
way too bad. I had is on. Nobody else can
(33:01):
tell that story but people from our era.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Twenty years ago, back when guys were having the black
guys wearing pants kind of around their ass.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, it was a thing. It was a thing.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Hey, it was cool.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Why it was it was cool? And man, I my
daddy my ass because he was in military. I had military.
My daddy wasn't having boy Jay. I remember one time,
damn it. I was.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I was, I had some ship on and I went
to the bus stop. I was chilling with the homies
and I had some ship in my buk bag. So
I was like, yeah, let me put on my other
my corn ship. So I switched up at the bus stop.
So I'm like, yeah, yeah, we posted, we posted chilling,
I'm talking ship, trying to be cool, and my daddy
rode by in that fucking mini van just staring at me.
I said, oh fuck, oh god, okay, And then boy,
(33:50):
I'll tell you what. I got my ass cut that
day trying to be cool and wear some ship. And
then the other thing was he was like, you know what.
I wasn't even that mad that you try to be slicking.
I was pissed because it was wrinkled. Why So yeah,
that was.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I like that in your book back.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, terrible.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't I don't know where where second came from.
I just know when I was old enough to notice
what it was, and it was a thing. It was
just a cultural staple at the time, I know. But
a lot of time for me it dealt with I
didn't have the right belt.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Anyway, don't be alone.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
You've learned a lot, you've made a lot of progress,
you've made movies, gone through all this stuff. What's still like, Man,
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I think what's still hard for me is that you
have to do it again, and you have to do
it better again. It's like nothing is ever really enough
in this business because I want more, I want more,
I want more, So then you have to constantly. I
(35:19):
compare it to like school. You go from the eighth
grade when you're at the top of middle school and
you're the top dog, and then you go into high
school and then you're the low man on the totem
pole again. It's like every time we level up in
what we do, we're the low man on the totem
pole again. And now we have to improve so much
to compete on this level that without without that funnel,
(35:42):
that is just cash cow, just making all your stuff.
You have to do it again. Now.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Any project is different. Like every project, it is a
new set of problems. Like all the all the solutions
you had on the last movie do not apply to
the new movie.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
It's a brand new thing. Yeah, So that's it's a
startup company. Every time you make a project.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Right exactly.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Having people believe in your project as much as you do.
That's very fucking hard because everybody has her own projects
and they're believing in their own ship. So what why
should I do yours? That's that's another one.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
How do you overcome back? How do you minx? That
is good?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You do it, but you do it nice.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
It's all about tones, right, that's that's cute. But right,
but this right here though, if you really look at it,
I hit him with the Jews, give them some brazzle dels,
God damn some spirit hands and you in there.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Or or or they put theirs out and you put
yours out and the world will tell you.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Right, I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I don't want to go to Judge to work with us,
or you work with.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
Nobody would say oh yeah, or you that's where you
collapse and then and that's where you collab and you
feel readership. That's that's also another thing. What the harnessing
relations ships, you know, like developing that development and getting
getting that relationship to a to a certain place instead
of just getting lost in the sauce with all these
(37:08):
people's other emails and everything else, and actually building that
relationship right. You are my very first what they call
industry mentors, and you've been riding with me since.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
I honestly can't shake you. I've tried so hard. Hey,
oh my god, don't be.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Able to say too bad.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Damn it. Sometimes we just might have to go there.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
But uh no, well, I mean, here's the thing. You
have great ideas, you have good energy, you're a good writer. Like,
what what's the downside for me?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Sure? I don't have I don't see a fucking downside.
I don't either.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
That's the whole. Oh yeah, pretty fucking dope, fairly pleasant
to hang with. Might cuss a little too much, friend, Sorry, guys,
it's fun for me, you know. And at the meantime
we get to write our stuff and make stuff on
the side. And I'm doing, you know, podcas, which.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Is very lucrative.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I mean, is the money is flowing.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
We saw the money on the stairs.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Money.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
We can't hold it all the office should Yeah, we
don't want to be rude. No, I appreciate it. We're
cameras by the way on the staircase. Eventually, eventually there
might be some money coming to this. But I entered
the podcast game about ten years after it was very popular.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
So this is uh all you started, we're starting.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Let's talk about that for a second before we go.
But yes, marketing, how important is it to market yourself
as somebody that people know and recognize? In other words,
I've for years and years as a writer, you didn't
have to market to anybody but agents and some a few,
the three studio executives, that's all that mattered. Now it
(38:54):
seems like you have to be on Twitter, you have
to be a social media presence, you have to market yourself.
People have to know who you are.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, I think because people are watching you because they
like you in this day and age, So I think
it's damn near thirty percent of the job is putting
yourself out there.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
So how much time do you spend doing that?
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Man?
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Probably not enough, not definitely not enough. But I mean
we do put ourselves out there the same. That's how
I pretty much met everybody's putting yourself out there marketing myself. Hey,
I do this that, and the third I wasn't you know,
I wasn't the best at whatever, but I'll goddamn learned
and whatever you need, I'll do it, so, you know,
(39:36):
and then pretty much going back to making yourself an asset,
not my ability, but putting in the work and networking
and doing that like it it works, it works.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
We were also pretty fortunate that we you know, when
I started making content, I was able to get other
creatives that were in it that nobody kind of knew
at the time, and then everybody started blowing up online
on like YouTube at the same time. So we're over
the course of like two or three years, we were
able to build you know, hundreds of millions of views
(40:05):
on our content and then start you know, as writers,
coming from behind the scenes a little bit more even
to the forefront of what we do now. I mean
we're starting the pod for that reason, to start marketing
us a little bit more everywhere and then so people
can see our personality. We're doing documentaries. We got a
documentary series we're doing on ourselves, like this about YouTube
(40:27):
all of our company, yeah, me, Justin and like some
of our other partners. So we're all just pooling resources
to make these things so people can you know, we're
not actors, but we've acted and stuffe but we've seen
(40:49):
that also, you know, putting yourself into things. Sometimes, if
you respect the craft enough to pay homage to the
actors you're working with and do your job as an actor,
then it's like, you know, we're where people can see
us now, so they can identify us as writers as this,
as that. We like those guys. Let's watch their thing.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, get yourself seen a little bit.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's important.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
They don't have to know who you are branded. You know,
being branded matters because it helps, Like U.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
J. J.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Abrams name, people know who his name.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I'm buying that all. So like you know, if I've
even seen j J.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
I thought the glasses and just like Jake Cogan, the
goddamn exactly like everybody, that's the brand. Me, I'm pretty
much a cartoon oh ship, well you can't see it, yeah,
but yeah, pretty much a cartoon shirt.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
But yeah, I'm pretty much a cartooner shirt.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Somewhere right somewhere in there, it'll be.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
A movie reference or a cartoon sty like yeah, Barny's
always fresh dripped.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
That's branding, marketing.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
So you know, put yourself. Yeah, almost better than your content.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
I am. I'm you know, I'm very bad at that,
but I'm trying because I care. I don't put any
time into it. Yeah, okay, I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
You keep you keep it simplistic, fresh bro, you keep
like that.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
That was my rapper name.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Come on, damn, I knew you had. Yeah, I knew it.
You know, give me a beat?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
No, no, no, no, I.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Think Justin could give you a music.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
All right. So now we're gonna go on to our
next segment, which is uh listener mail.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Now it's time for listener man.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Dear Jane guest, there's so many choices in life and
such a limited time. How do you know you're leading
the life you're supposed to be leading?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Oh about it?
Speaker 5 (42:47):
How do you feel you ship? I think it's a feeling.
I'm pretty much. No, I'm doing the right thing. It
took a while, but I started, you know, music. I
thought I was gonna be basketball. Oh yeah, I want
to be athlete. That ship didn't I was?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I was. I was in eleventh grade on JV.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
No.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
That wasn't it that everybody thinks that. Everybody thinks they're
gonna be a professional sportsman of some kind until about
fourteen years old, and then they're either not tall enough,
you know, like this is my height exactly, And.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
Then then music right and if it felt right. But
I didn't feel I don't know complete. I wasn't all
the way like it. It didn't have the feeling that
writing and being on set and making movies and just
talking about films get me right. I know I'm on
the right path because I feel it. I feel it
in my damn spirit and my soul.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
If you had it, if there was an alternate universe
and you had to pick something else that was not
music or show is related, what would you be doing?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Real estate? Real estate, something in finance to real estate
and finance.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Yeah, I would trust you with certain findings like you.
You seem like a very presuorty guy.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I'm terrible.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Yeah, I'm proud probably so man dispensary ship trying to
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 6 (44:05):
I would not trust you anywhere you don't get off supply.
I wait a minute, you're outside. I put you outside
to security.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
All right.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
He's saying the feeling in your heart is that? Would
you agree with that? Is the feeling in your heart?
Speaker 1 (44:28):
I would agree with that, But in the spirit of
adding saying something else, I would also say, what does
your bank account say? How long can you live? The
way that you're living and if that's like progressing financially,
and it's like because at the last show that I
was on was like twenty twenty, and that's what we're
(44:48):
in twenty five. I haven't worked in the industry for
a company or a big show since then, and I've
somehow made it and my income's grown. So that's an
indication to me that at least I'm on the right path.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
So I agree, I think. I think it's how you feel.
But there's always a part of me and it's my
culture too, you know, just like always questioning, like am
I in the right spot? Is this the thing? Shouldn't
we be doing something else? There's that there's that part
of me that's always that part. Yeah. Good, if you
can ignore that part, it is the secret happiness.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Look look at we've got seventeen dollars in that account. Yes,
say yea, at twelve you're winning.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
That's winning.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Well, now it's time for the moment of joy.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
A moment of joy.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
What gives you joy? Like, what's the thing not your kids,
not your family, not work, Like, what's the thing outside
of that that you can just pull out? Like if
you're not feeling great. You know I can do this
and feel good.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Basketball for me yeaeah, basketball is grew up playing sports.
Thought I was going to the NBA. Separated my shoulder
on Friday the thirteenth, two thousand and four, the day
before my sister's birthday, and was never the same on
the court, but watching it, still participating five to ten.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
So you thought you got an NBA career.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I thought I was going to be on. I thought
I was going to transfer after two years from a Jay,
from a from a D two to a D one.
Then I was going up.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
I just get on somebody a little perspective on that
shoulder injury, right.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I was gonna get on somebody's bench and get two
years of satary and flip that.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Okay, the shoulder was bad. I'm not saying that there
was bad. I'm just saying that was god going.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
But you think you're still going to continue? We got
to do something drastic, right. It waited till my last
game though.
Speaker 4 (46:45):
Okay, good at that all right? So so then you
got your shoulder industry and injury, and now what gives
you what gives.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
You joy, it's still playing basket basketball, playing basketball stuff
like that. I mean, I'm a shooter, so I can
hit from anywhere on the court. Yeah, I can hit.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
Anyone way on the outside.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
We can put money on that. Yeah. Really, I have
a shot of basketball and maybe four or five months
I'm hitting off the top. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Wow, wow, okay, it too all. You can give me
a basketball and a and a hoop and no one
between me and the hoop, and I will not sink
a basket for like eight shots, I'll go. I'll go
one for eight.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Get you a little closer in the Paint'll rile the
ball even in the paint. By the way, did you
ever play like Sony's got those courts up there?
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I played.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I played basketball. We used to play my very first
job on the Tracy Omens Show. We had these courts
in twentyth century Fox, and we used to play all
the time. Okay, so basketball is your thing for sure.
Speaker 5 (47:48):
I know it's so corny as hell, but to be honest,
if I could just sit back and watch a good
old eighties nineties nostalgia vibe movie of bringing me back
to childhood, Like, if I can do that and eat
good have waffle House waffle House All Star Special and
then a good about foe dubies.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's that's that's pure just life. That's that's bliss.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
That edible is no good. That's edibles get you a
little too.
Speaker 5 (48:20):
I can't control my edible action too much, and it's
all in like the blood stream, and shit is different.
I feel like I'm tripping almost. It's almost like a
mini trip. Well all right, well, uh, I appreciate you both.
Thank you Byron, thank you justin. Uh, you have been
an incredible guess. Uh, you broke the age barrier of
most of my guests twenty years.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
That's pretty good.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
Un yes, uh, and uh, you know, I wish you
incredible success and I wish me incredible success with you,
I'm going to be milking the profits off of whatever
we we get done together. Enough, So thank you, thanks
for being here, and I expect to be a guest
on your podcast, Yes you will. Thank you. All right,
thank you and thank you for being here. Please don't
(49:07):
be alone. If you have an opportunity to have a
conversation with friends, go do it. What are you waiting for?
And write me at dB A w j K at
gmail dot com with all your questions and suggestions and
we'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Don't be alone with jj cog
Strawut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Justin Graves.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Byron Manuel and this is Don't Be Alone with.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Jake Cogin exactly. That's why I brought in.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Don't Be Alone with JJ Cogan.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Welcome to Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. I'm glad
you're here. Thank you for being here. And I really
appreciate all the emails that come to me at dbawjk
at gmail dot com. That is a great way to
reach me. It's a great way to tell me your
viewer mail their suggestion for questions that I ask my
guests each week. It's a great way to tell me
(00:38):
compliments on my blue shirt and my hat, or criticisms
of my blue shirt and my hat, or anything else
you want to tell me. I will respond to you
as soon as I get that email. Also, if you
have the opportunity, why don't you subscribe to this show
on whatever you're listening to, especially if it's if it's
the YouTube. Would you get to see the show, not
(00:59):
just hear it, but subscribe. Press the subscribe button, press
the like button, press the whatever buttons you have there
to just say that you exist and you like the show.
That does me a world of good and the other
thing that does me a world of good. If you
like the show, if you really like the show, or
if you think there's a particular episode of particular interest
to a friend, send it to them, share it. Most
(01:20):
of us get our shows and our content from recommendations
from friends, So recommend the show. That's the greatest honor.
We have a great show for you today. It's been
years in the making. I have two filmmakers I was
gonna say young, but they're fine. They're younger than me.
That makes them young. Byron Manuel and Justin Graves are
(01:44):
two filmmakers, writer directors who are here because they are
going to talk about how to make movies in twenty
twenty five, which is different than how I've made movies
in two and well two thousand, or nineteen eighty seven
or nineteen ninety seven or what you know. Now, it's
(02:07):
kind of do it yourself. We have to no longer
rely on the big movie companies because they make way
less movies, and the movies they make are superhero movies
that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. And if you're
not in that business, then you can't be in their
movie business. But there's lots of movies out there that
are not about that, and so it's gonna be exciting
to hear their version of what they go through. These
(02:30):
guys will tell me how they do it and how
it's done these days, and I think that's gonna be invigorating.
I think it's going to be interesting. They're also really
funny guys, great writers, great people, and I think you're
gonna like them as much as I do. And we'll
be right back with Byron Manuel and Justin Graves right
after this.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Don't be alone with j J.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
How have you guys been all right? Congratulations on Swoon?
Than what has been the reaction of this movie?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Man?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It's been good, pretty pretty solid reviews, a lot of
a lot of love, a lot of love coming through.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Okay, have we been scared by Swoon.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
A little bit? In the process creating?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
How did you raise the money for that movie?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Man?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That was a journey? We raised it like group funding?
I guess maybe sort of likely? Uh asked everybody we knew, Okay, pretty.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Much beg for money.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Funding and begging is the same thing. Yeah, group funding? Yeah, Sharon,
I met you because I knew Justin. Justin I met
while ago. He had some really cool ideas about movies
and stuff that said, know, this guy's got some some
good ideas. And then he introduced me to you, and
you've been around. You sort of helped me with my
son's stuff and videos like also. But one of the
(04:00):
reasons you guys are here is I see when I
asked about funding and stuff, is that you guys are
are working the system. You guys are trying to get
it all done and trying sort of like get them.
Hollywood is not easy. It's gotten harder harder since you
(04:20):
guys started, it has not got easier, It's gotten harder.
So I want to know because I'm a lazy, rich
white guy, you know, like you're like that I should be.
This show is all about don't be one with Jay cooked.
It's all about me fixing my problems. I don't care
about you guys at all. It's about me, Holly hook
them over bit exactly. You got to give something right,
(04:41):
and so I want to know where I can improve
my game. I want to know how I can get
things going these days. You guys are have how many
projects do you have in the works right now?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Man? Over fifteen?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Right yeah, so fifteen projects in the works.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's amazing, slate.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Slate's kind of deep and so you just you finished Swoon.
What else? What else is anything being filmed right now?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Not yet, hopefully soon writing something.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
That how many? How many finished scripts?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Oh? Man, We've got over ten finished scripts for sure.
Because we also we also work with other people in
our circle and our team and our collective, so we've
we've taken on like an acquisition's arm, or we'll pick
up some scripts from some of the.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Homies acquisitions are. See this is the I have no
acquisitions on there's nothing, it's just me. So you guys
have have corporate names, you have acquisition arms like this
very official. When I talked to you and looked down
your list, it's like, you know, you have very official
titles and all kinds of stuff. You know. I'm just
(05:49):
I'm just trying to get movies made. If I wanted
to give a movie to you, you could acquire it.
Your acquisitions aren't could acquire my project. Yeah, and you
are would be blessed.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We can bless you.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And then but this is all done with like LLCs
and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And you know, yeah, well, I mean we're operating operating
legal businesses at the moment, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Okay, I mean that's like that's so far beyond me,
like I.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Have, I think like for you though, also it's like,
I mean your era and you're where you are, you've
almost leveled past that. I think when you mentioned things
like it's harder now, it's harder from the degree for
us that we have to think a lot more like
the system because we can't get in the system, so
we have to become the system. And what's the system doing?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
So and tell me what the system? What does the
system look like now?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
For both of you, Like when we look out there,
we don't see a lot of opportunity. So the business
is changing everybody. We were just talking about this earlier,
like a lot of the relationships that we had in
great places where we thought we can get in have
been fired go. So for us, it's always just kind
of looked like.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Hustle coincidentally fired or because they were friends of yours. No, No,
I think I don't know what I'm getting.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
But pretty much, and I don't know. The way I'm
looking at things is like Jay, you're pretty much set up,
You're you're good you was in the you was in
the Hollywood system and writing and getting in your writer's room,
and you got the residuals the old school deals like
you're pretty much set up, but I want to I
want to work now, and there's it's hard for me now.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
It's still hard for me now because it's sort of like,
you know what, I have been lucky enough to be
a producer on some of the things that you guys
were on, and I try to get things pushed through
to other people. It's hard. It is hard.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
No, it's super hard. I think like it is tough,
you know, even even for you, because I think that's
what we noticed was like when we started looking at
people we thought were like legendary or icons or and
then you look and you see like they're not at
the level we believe you guys should be at r
are because you're still hustling, you're still working.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Everybody gets told no. Everybody gets told like Steven Spielberg
gets told noctly he does, and every now and then
he gets told no. So it's like, because everything is
now very corporatized, and everything is about bottom line money.
It's not about art, it's not about what's cool. It's
not about somebody taking a flyer and say like, I
love this idea and I'm going to see it through.
It's about prove to me your you know, the surveys
(08:23):
that say that I'm investing this money, I'm going to
get my money back. It's a different kind of system
it is.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So how do you prove your worth.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
To A the funders and b the You know, when
you make a movie, then you know that's proof, the
proof of concept is already in the movie you've made,
and then selling that to distributors and try to get
a deal that you don't get ripped off on.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
And bottom line, the hustle is putting in the work,
making yourself an asset not a liability, and not being
a dickhead and going from there.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
See that's my problem. I'm lazy and a dickhead. So
those two things are really standing in my way.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, okay, But.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Because everything's relationship, you know, when you think about it,
it's like everybody. There's some power shift that we've seen
as far as like creatives and like non creative people
normally have been telling creative people what to do. Creative
people have been so marginalized and separated and pushed out
by the system that we're now finding our own value
in ourselves and our relationships. So it's like Justin's a writer,
(09:21):
I'm a director, write this, I'll direct it. We'll get
a producer friend to produce it, and you just start
using your network, you know, in ways that we've kind
of seen people like Isa Ray have done traveled this
route before. So we've seen a couple of people make
it indie right, and we just tried to adopt those principles.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I mean making it now is kind of the answer
like if you have to make it, and then say,
can do you want to sell it? Okay, so Swoon
if you're willing to talk some details about Swoon, so
Swoon cost roughly what did you have to raise to
make it?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
We did Swoon roughly around we haven't been putting out
the exact numbers yet, but it's around like a hundred K.
So we did it extremely low right budget. I don't
like to use low budget though, because I don't feel
like our work resembled low budget. So it was like
a cost efficient film is what we.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Did, right.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, that basically asked people to work for free and.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
A couple of free about nine percent of people got
some dollars.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Right, okay, and then the whoever put up that money,
which is probably some some of it's yours and some
of its other people. When do you expect to recoup
some of that?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Man? It's taken us about about a about a year
and a couple of months. Yeah, about a year and
a couple of months. It took. We wanted to move
a lot faster, but we ended up going into the
festival circuit. Right in the festival circuit, it took. It
added a lot more time.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Slow, it's slow, but you need to get there in
order to get hype to get to people.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And it worked. It worked.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Do you need the festival like that?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well, what do you think you need the hype? So
how are you going to get the hype? If you
have a different way to get the hype other than
the festival circuit, then go for it. Sometimes it's the star.
Sometimes it's the subject matter that's controversial or something like that.
Sometimes it's you know, the some other some other piece
of the movie, a song, something that's in it that
(11:20):
that's getting people's attention. And if you have none of
those things, then the festival circuit is a good way
to go because otherwise, I mean, you have this movie
that's off people's radar, and even if you got it
in front of a studio or a distributor, they're not
going to know what it is exactly unless there's other
(11:41):
They want the safety of other people saying this is good.
I think. I mean, that's just which I know people
who are now making TV shows pilot, you know, just
making it themselves and just saying, okay, this is my pilot.
It's not waiting for a studio to pick it up,
just making it and just saying this is what it is.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I think that's the to do it at this point.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
But you see how criminal it is, Like like they've
taken a business that they used to say, well, we'll
pay you for your time and your efforts. We'll make
these prototypes that we will all share profits. And now
we're funneling that out to private citizens to just make
their own thing, and then we'll in success, we'll swoop up,
swoop in and take that money.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Then we'll get by taking your money.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
From our pov. It's like I got you know, we
never we never even got to experience it. How you
were able to experience and get some of that money
in development or earlier on time, or consistently throughout the years.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Let me just tell you you don't feel so bad.
It was sweet. Yeah, it was so good. It was
so fantastic. Oh my god, Oh it was better than
you can possibly imagine.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Just go in the room and like and then they
give you money for the idea and be like, hey, yeah,
that sounds good, right, exactly, wish dollars for a screen.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yet we're just going to pay you a certain amount
of money just to hang around when you pitch us
and stuff.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
That's what my development. Can we go back to them
to charge? Who's in charge? Tell them, let's let's running back. Yeah,
let's spend the block. Let's try it the old fashion.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I want to make it up to you guys. So
I got you, but a little something sort of make
up for the system. Oh Jesus for both of you.
Yeah that Jesus, damn it, Jesus. Come on, I know,
I know it does make up for all the trouble
you guys have had.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
It is nice, but next time time, just can you
get to like the little the extra toasty on the edge.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
I'll try and come on, j just consider considerate reparations
for now.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I'll take all.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Uh, So you're from South Carolina, so there's not a
lot of show business happening in South Carolina news, so like.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm pretty much now I think I think now they probably.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Everywhere but Angels has a studio. But I'm saying, like,
you know, I grew up here, so it seemed like
a viable job. It seemed like, oh, people I knew
their dads and moms were working in an industry. So
like deciding I'm going to do this from South Carolina
seems pretty brave to me.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It was.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
It wasn't the first thing I'm not gonna lie, but
I guess it came around twenty sixteen ish, I'm not
gonna lie. Donald Glover Atlanta dropped, right, Jordan Peel get
Out dropped, and super Bad.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Was kind of the influence for a while.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
But after seeing those films, I was like, Okay, they're
accepting different.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Types of stories from black folks.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
It's like there's different things that you can put in
there now, So I'm gonna go ahead and shoot my shot.
And I just kind of I always love films. They
always was kind of like an escape to get away.
So I was like, let me just shoot my shot
and see what I can do. It's been brewing for
a minute. So I ended up writing a script. They say, right,
but you know, I did a lot of research YouTube
to university that's that ship. And I finished the script
(15:05):
based on my life waiting tables, you know, the basic
ship right with, you know, and sent it to some people.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
They was like, hey man, it's pretty all right. Man,
I think you might can come.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
To l A and do a little something, and gave
me some feedback, and I was like, hm, hm, well,
you know what, fuck it, I'm I'm gonna go ahead
and do it and try. And I came out here
on a whim from South Carolina, didn't know anybody made
the networks, and slid.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
In some d M s and there you go.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
That's pretty much how I met both of y'all, sliding
this d M two just so just like somebody trying
to get me.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Hey, hey, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
What's going on?
Speaker 4 (15:41):
You know, got ego up a little bit there, you
know right.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Alone.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
You grew up here, right, okay, so you saw this
town at least you know it's got locky, it's got
you know, aerospace and has show business and there's probably
you know, there's a shipping port here. There's a lot
of things you could say, like how did show business
become the thing that you were aiming at?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And really growing up? I was more so on the
on the athlete side. I thought that was going to
be my path to school.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Oh no, oh way, nothings.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
None.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Those kind of things sounded like it was going to
be it. But my brother and my older brother came
home one day with a ton of music studio equipment
and was like, I'm going to start rapping. And so
when he was like I'm gonna start rapping, I just
started going into those creative sessions and being around that
environment and it kind of sparked something inside of me
that was like I feel like I want to do this.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
But how does rapping translate to movies?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, because we started I started writing music, so I
started storytelling immediately, and then I started picking up a
camera to film music video. I started managing talent within
some of the circles, and then you go out and
start doing marketing. So when you look at all the
components of it, coming from the storyteller part is what
I started just writing music, and then that developed into
(17:14):
once I didn't want to do music anymore, I used
to intern at Innerscope and Universal and went on this
whole journey. And when I was like I kind of
want to do something else, the next thing I thought
about was storytelling and TV and film.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Right, Okay, so let's again it's all about me. So
how do you keep because how do you keep your
energy up and your hopes up and this kind of stuff?
Because you keep getting swatted down and every now and
then it's time to go get up and write and
do that thing. And so like you know, you feel
(17:50):
like some days you're inspired and I have a really
great idea about this. So many days of thing am
I just writing this to be thrown away is now?
But going to read this, it's like there's a there's
a there's a you know a little bit of a
pall put on your on your heart and so like
the thing that drove you to be creative, it gets
(18:10):
hard after a while when you face rejection and just
thinking nobody's listening. So how do you keep your spirits up?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Man?
Speaker 4 (18:19):
But we both know the weeds coming. That is going
to happen whether you are spiritual up or spiritual.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Damn right, but.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Man it it just it excites me to keep writing,
to keep coming up with ideas. And even though you
know people be like, oh, well not this one, or
if this one gets turned down on whatever, I know
it's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Somebody else will pick that ship up.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
It's fine, we'll leave it on the back burn and
we'll put it on the shelf and work on something new.
But at the same time, like when you're writing something
or working on something, you're you're thinking about the next
thing anyway, just because other ship pops up all the time.
So it's like a never adult moment. I don't know
what this name, man right, Writing and making movies is
pretty much the ship. It's you. It's all we pretty
(19:05):
much want to do.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think what we've been able to do in keeping
our spirits up is collaboration. Like if I were if
I were to look and give you advice with what
we're what we're doing is we lean on each other,
I would say, you definitely need some other guys in
your boat that support system that we've had as and
then starting to do things on our own, Like I
(19:27):
would look to you and be like, how are you
not making things? Like you can write a story? You know, directors,
you know, producers. You guys have some of your own
money too, you know, so in the sixth.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Rule, do not money, do not use your own money.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's what that system said. But I'll be honest, I've
lost no money.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
And understand, Ryan over here is a is an entrepreneur.
Not only does he run this organization, the straw Hut
Media Empire, but he also started producing movie.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
He's quite he looks like he's somebody. He looks like yeah.
On the same page, I was asking him about the camera.
He do everything that he's going on.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
He does know everything. This is his place. But he's
recently ventured into movie making. They just made it. This
has made a very interesting, great movie that's being edited
right now. And he'll be, you know, figuring out the
gauntlet how to get it sold?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Put in how did you guys use your money? Right?
Where'd you get some money.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
From some friends?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Fun?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Raising begging, yeah, yeah, excellent beg Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
But that's the thing. I was always the artist, the
pampered artist, and the business people kept me at arm's
length because they didn't want to me to know how
much dreamt that.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
But we got to get out on them.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
No. I mean there's a downside to it too, which
is they're making a lot of money off of you
and then not paying you what duo, and then you
have to figure out and fight for the money that
you're offered, that you're owed.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And we've looked at that too and gone, man, a
lot of our peers have been robbed grossly. If we
were to make a fraction of what that movie made
and split it correctly, then we would have all made
that amount of money too. So we don't even have
to hit the masses of audience to make money. You know,
we've we've we started on YouTube. We were making money
in ninety days.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
The business model of Swoon is you're gonna make it.
You're gonna sort of, as you said, hype it up
and then sell it to ideally. It's a streamer. It's
on a streamer.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Now, it's on right now.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
You can watch that. It's free.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
It's free.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You don't want to watch it. You could just press
play and let it run.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Laptops work the camera, the camera three your three laptops.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay, put it on your laptop and just let that
ship run. You got to watch it. We don't care.
I mean, we rather you would.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Watch it though it's good.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
You know, yeah, I left busy.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Do you get paid per view?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
What happens?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think we work off of impressions, So like a
million impressions could be like two grand okay something like that,
or a million is like.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
A sampling of time, not the whole thing. So like,
is that a minute? Is that thirty seconds?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I'm not sure they I don't know the legal charge
and legal jargon of an impression. My opinion of it
is you see the poster and maybe you click it
and you read it about it, or you watch a
piece of it or somehow it came across your screen.
But we don't get paid off the impression. We track
it off the impression, so it does get paid pert
watch review. So like one hour of time is worth
(22:41):
more than ten minutes of time, right, because they're also
running the ads right, Okay, It's almost like I imagine how
TV was so profitable before when you're running an ad
every every so often.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Well, in TV the old days, which is now the
new days, it's gone back to advertising sported you promised
the network or whoever was showing it said, I promise
you these amount of viewers will see your ad, and
then if they didn't deliver, they to give you free
ads later on to make up for the amount of
people who didn't see it until they know that, until
they get to the right number.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
It also made me think about like distribution back three US,
what were the what was the theft like then?
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Because but there was so much money that the theft
was fine.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And go that's cool. WHOA there they were.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
They were making a ton, but they were also the
game was and the game could still be. I think
it's a good game for us is make ten movies
for a very reasonable amount of money. Ten for very
reasonable money, and if one of them hits, it's paying
for everything.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Model is more because of the sex the success we've
had with our previous projects. The only thing that's really
stopping us is enough cash flow to make more. And
once we fix that dropping five movies a year, ten
movies a year, and then through acquisitions, get up to ten, fifteen, twenty.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
That's that word a game you gotta throw.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We gotta get as many more.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
So so okay, so you're looking at me and I
had to put on cocause we got you look at me, say, Jay,
these are the things you gotta do to increase your hustle.
This is your old man, you're old coging, You're old,
you're out of touch, You're yesterday's news. This is what
you gotta do today. What advice do you have for
me right now?
Speaker 5 (24:46):
How's your social media presence? You're you're looking pretty good
on now. I say, well, I have a podcast. Is
that pretty good?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Goddamn it, that's good.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
I mean that's pretty good, all right, But your Instagram follows.
You got to get your followers up.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'm only like around ten thousands. Is that enough?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I think you might be good.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
That's that's that's ten thousands like on Twitter and ten
thousand threads, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Think you're growing. Also, I would say the network got
the like we watched we went through your uh, your
channel and looked at your guests, tons of legends, tons
of legends. I would say, where are some of the
new people that are doing some things right now that
maybe can funnel you some of their audiences that could
(25:29):
be you know, like, I think this was a brilliant move.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Maybe guys you got to get off.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I'll be honest. I was looking at the numbers. I
was like, I found the highest one. I was like,
I think we could beat this one.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
All right, he's cool.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Who you're going to beat the Conan Show? All right,
let's see how how many weeks?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
How many weeks?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I don't know. I don't know about the time, but
when we when, when it's done, and we'll put the
numbers together.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
And here's the problem with me getting young talented people
is I know very few young talented people. Like my
circle is my people I came up with, right, And
so it's like every now and then I meet cool
people and I try to be open and involved in this.
I teach school.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You do y'all should produce one of our films. Yeah,
and now you're popping. That's one thing. But I also think,
like I think, if you guys group together and start
having some meetings and talk about getting some things done,
and if you lose the idea of putting your money
up as a bad thing, like none of those companies
(26:38):
ever felt like putting their money up was a bad thing,
like they won they do now they do, But that
that's that's probably because like I'm used to getting a
billion dollars and getting four hundred million, Like I'm cool. Yeah,
that's my jab, Like that's you know, that's so different mentality.
But when you look at how much money is still
(26:59):
possible for the people who are watching the current state,
you go, man, you get two or three of your
people to put a script together, you get the talent,
you put together, you find some creative ways to find
some funding. You don't need a lot because you still
get the professional DP, you still get the professional gaffer.
It's less of a crew. All the cushy things that
(27:20):
you were using about union.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
I'm a union man.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I don't know what I'm not to.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Find the minimum the minimum union man.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
That's for show. I'm sure the union has probably been
good through history. So support the union for sure, but
find whatever their minimum is and find the amount to
make it.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I want to take care of my crew, but.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
You also can take care of them with some equity.
Like when you've seen Zendaya and David Washington, John David
Washington when they did Malcolm and Marie, they gave equity
to the.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Crew, right, I think everybody on three points or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I think they had one point and walked away with
a hundred k.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I thought it was like three hundred thousands because they
sold a three or something.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yeah, it was like they all got.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Three hundred thousand. You talk about like five people. Maybe
they shout.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's kind of the motto. Every paid everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Six grand for the location. Like we sometimes if we're shooting,
we're shooting so much that it's like, all right, maybe
I paid you a different day rate today, but I've
got this other gig that I'm not even a part
of that my friend is shooting three times the amount.
So when you look at the balance of it all,
you start being able to find survival and people are
(28:44):
getting paid well, and then when they do hit on
the back end, you've got a bonus you've never seen
that you can float on. So that that's kind of
how we're managing it to a degree, Like we we
try to get as many people paid, which is why
our stuff is so so our crews are so low.
But then we you know it, when it hits on
the back end, it's more money than most of us
have ever seen because we still never seen the height
(29:07):
of what you guys have seen, right, So it might
look a little funny to you guys at first, but
it's less of you. And then you're taking care of five, ten, fifteen,
twenty people in your crew like you guys could kill.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Does your family think you're crazy?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
For sure?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
For sure?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
All right, I'm not sure my family even knows what
I do. Still.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, my mom was like, well, are you still doing
the writing that?
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I'm proud of you?
Speaker 5 (29:29):
But you still got your job, right, like you still
getting paid for real, regular regular money. I was like, well,
my shit, I'm still yeah, but I'm making a little
bit of money with my ship too.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Don't don't act up.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
But yeah, she's happy, and uh, she she believes I'm crazy,
but she supports it.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I'll say that much. Hell right, my pops too. Okay,
that's good. And your family doesn't know you keep it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
A shit like No, I'm just like, I'm not sure
they even know like what it is that I actually do.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
But they have a general idea.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, they're just like, he's in, he's a writer. That's
the one that they can.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
They get to go to a Swoon premiere. Yeah yeah, okay,
then and now they know, Yeahoon.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Helped a lot. Yeah, I think Soon helped a lot
very Oh wow, so these things can come out, right,
they've been out on other stuff.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Some people thought I was lying for me. I was like, yeah,
this shit's coming out. It's gonna just wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Articles dropped they see what's up on.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
The ground, was like, well, where's the movie? Damn, hold
on it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
But yeah, we had some motion deadline dropped us too.
You know what I'm saying, do.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
You feel an obligation being African American to make African
American uh point of view movies or I mean I
get the feeling the stuff I've read of yours are
not They're just entertaining. They're they're entertainment first, but some
of them have to do thematically with being black or whatever,
(30:51):
So like is it where does that fit in? And
there over which, like how important is that?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
It's important?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
For sure, we have to you know, represent the culture,
and we are black men, so we're gonna tell stories
for black folks for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But it's it's stories for every fucking body, because well
that's the truth.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
You know what I mean that every story is for everybody.
You know what I'm saying, There's not there is no
there's like if if it's wrapped up a story wrapped
up in a particular culture is just a way to
present it. But I'm just saying that you have a
particular point of view, then you also an particular experience
that you come from, so you can talk about that
experience specifically, which is great, you know for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Due I think it's important, definitely. I think that we
don't think about it that often of like this is
what this view is. But I think because we've just
keep continuing to make things that comes up that it's like, oh,
this film is specifically this way because of this POV.
And then there's other times where it's just like we
could have got an idea from somebody else and we
(31:51):
just thought it was dope, and then we're like, well
we want to push that too.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Because I only make things for fat Jewish guys, I mean,
that's the only thing that is my content. First of all,
it's a good paying bunch.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
They're coming out to support excellent way.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So that's good.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
No.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
No, I mean I like as an artist, I like
to be able to tell a story from any point
of view that I think is interesting.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I remember, like the first time that I was saying
out loud that I'm a writer to other people in
the business and they were like, what kind And I
was like, what do you mean. They're like comedy or
drama and I'm like both. They're like, you got to
pick one, and I'm like, you gotta pick one. I'm like,
how limiting.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Used to be that less? So now if you're paying
for it yourself, absolutely you don't have to pick one.
You can do whatever you want, anytime you want.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, that's how we feel. We just want to tell
dope stories. To be honest, a lot of stuff is
going to be from our POV because it's like what
Justin said right with you know. So it's like two
thousand and three on a Tuesday when Ludacris just dropped
and my shirt was four X and my pants were
way too bad. I had is on. Nobody else can
(33:01):
tell that story but people from our era.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Twenty years ago, back when guys were having the black
guys wearing pants kind of around their ass.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, it was a thing. It was a thing.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Hey, it was cool.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Why it was it was cool? And man, I my
daddy my ass because he was in military. I had military.
My daddy wasn't having boy Jay. I remember one time,
damn it. I was.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I was, I had some ship on and I went
to the bus stop. I was chilling with the homies
and I had some ship in my buk bag. So
I was like, yeah, let me put on my other
my corn ship. So I switched up at the bus stop.
So I'm like, yeah, yeah, we posted, we posted chilling,
I'm talking ship, trying to be cool, and my daddy
rode by in that fucking mini van just staring at me.
I said, oh fuck, oh god, okay, And then boy,
(33:50):
I'll tell you what. I got my ass cut that
day trying to be cool and wear some ship. And
then the other thing was he was like, you know what.
I wasn't even that mad that you try to be slicking.
I was pissed because it was wrinkled. Why So yeah,
that was.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I like that in your book back.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, terrible.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't I don't know where where second came from.
I just know when I was old enough to notice
what it was, and it was a thing. It was
just a cultural staple at the time, I know. But
a lot of time for me it dealt with I
didn't have the right belt.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Anyway, don't be alone.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
You've learned a lot, you've made a lot of progress,
you've made movies, gone through all this stuff. What's still like, Man,
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
I think what's still hard for me is that you
have to do it again, and you have to do
it better again. It's like nothing is ever really enough
in this business because I want more, I want more,
I want more, So then you have to constantly. I
(35:19):
compare it to like school. You go from the eighth
grade when you're at the top of middle school and
you're the top dog, and then you go into high
school and then you're the low man on the totem
pole again. It's like every time we level up in
what we do, we're the low man on the totem
pole again. And now we have to improve so much
to compete on this level that without without that funnel,
(35:42):
that is just cash cow, just making all your stuff.
You have to do it again. Now.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Any project is different. Like every project, it is a
new set of problems. Like all the all the solutions
you had on the last movie do not apply to
the new movie.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
It's a brand new thing. Yeah, So that's it's a
startup company. Every time you make a project.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Right exactly.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Having people believe in your project as much as you do.
That's very fucking hard because everybody has her own projects
and they're believing in their own ship. So what why
should I do yours? That's that's another one.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
How do you overcome back? How do you minx? That
is good?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You do it, but you do it nice.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
It's all about tones, right, that's that's cute. But right,
but this right here though, if you really look at it,
I hit him with the Jews, give them some brazzle dels,
God damn some spirit hands and you in there.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Or or or they put theirs out and you put
yours out and the world will tell you.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Right, I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I don't want to go to Judge to work with us,
or you work with.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
Nobody would say oh yeah, or you that's where you
collapse and then and that's where you collab and you
feel readership. That's that's also another thing. What the harnessing
relations ships, you know, like developing that development and getting
getting that relationship to a to a certain place instead
of just getting lost in the sauce with all these
(37:08):
people's other emails and everything else, and actually building that
relationship right. You are my very first what they call
industry mentors, and you've been riding with me since.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
I honestly can't shake you. I've tried so hard. Hey,
oh my god, don't be.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Able to say too bad.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Damn it. Sometimes we just might have to go there.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
But uh no, well, I mean, here's the thing. You
have great ideas, you have good energy, you're a good writer. Like,
what what's the downside for me?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Sure? I don't have I don't see a fucking downside.
I don't either.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
That's the whole. Oh yeah, pretty fucking dope, fairly pleasant
to hang with. Might cuss a little too much, friend, Sorry, guys,
it's fun for me, you know. And at the meantime
we get to write our stuff and make stuff on
the side. And I'm doing, you know, podcas, which.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Is very lucrative.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I mean, is the money is flowing.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
We saw the money on the stairs.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Money.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
We can't hold it all the office should Yeah, we
don't want to be rude. No, I appreciate it. We're
cameras by the way on the staircase. Eventually, eventually there
might be some money coming to this. But I entered
the podcast game about ten years after it was very popular.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
So this is uh all you started, we're starting.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Let's talk about that for a second before we go.
But yes, marketing, how important is it to market yourself
as somebody that people know and recognize? In other words,
I've for years and years as a writer, you didn't
have to market to anybody but agents and some a few,
the three studio executives, that's all that mattered. Now it
(38:54):
seems like you have to be on Twitter, you have
to be a social media presence, you have to market yourself.
People have to know who you are.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, I think because people are watching you because they
like you in this day and age, So I think
it's damn near thirty percent of the job is putting
yourself out there.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
So how much time do you spend doing that?
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Man?
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Probably not enough, not definitely not enough. But I mean
we do put ourselves out there the same. That's how
I pretty much met everybody's putting yourself out there marketing myself. Hey,
I do this that, and the third I wasn't you know,
I wasn't the best at whatever, but I'll goddamn learned
and whatever you need, I'll do it, so, you know,
(39:36):
and then pretty much going back to making yourself an asset,
not my ability, but putting in the work and networking
and doing that like it it works, it works.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
We were also pretty fortunate that we you know, when
I started making content, I was able to get other
creatives that were in it that nobody kind of knew
at the time, and then everybody started blowing up online
on like YouTube at the same time. So we're over
the course of like two or three years, we were
able to build you know, hundreds of millions of views
(40:05):
on our content and then start you know, as writers,
coming from behind the scenes a little bit more even
to the forefront of what we do now. I mean
we're starting the pod for that reason, to start marketing
us a little bit more everywhere and then so people
can see our personality. We're doing documentaries. We got a
documentary series we're doing on ourselves, like this about YouTube
(40:27):
all of our company, yeah, me, Justin and like some
of our other partners. So we're all just pooling resources
to make these things so people can you know, we're
not actors, but we've acted and stuffe but we've seen
(40:49):
that also, you know, putting yourself into things. Sometimes, if
you respect the craft enough to pay homage to the
actors you're working with and do your job as an actor,
then it's like, you know, we're where people can see
us now, so they can identify us as writers as this,
as that. We like those guys. Let's watch their thing.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, get yourself seen a little bit.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's important.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
They don't have to know who you are branded. You know,
being branded matters because it helps, Like U.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
J. J.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Abrams name, people know who his name.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I'm buying that all. So like you know, if I've
even seen j J.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
I thought the glasses and just like Jake Cogan, the
goddamn exactly like everybody, that's the brand. Me, I'm pretty
much a cartoon oh ship, well you can't see it, yeah,
but yeah, pretty much a cartoon shirt.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
But yeah, I'm pretty much a cartooner shirt.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Somewhere right somewhere in there, it'll be.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
A movie reference or a cartoon sty like yeah, Barny's
always fresh dripped.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
That's branding, marketing.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
So you know, put yourself. Yeah, almost better than your content.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
I am. I'm you know, I'm very bad at that,
but I'm trying because I care. I don't put any
time into it. Yeah, okay, I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
You keep you keep it simplistic, fresh bro, you keep
like that.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
That was my rapper name.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Come on, damn, I knew you had. Yeah, I knew it.
You know, give me a beat?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
No, no, no, no, I.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Think Justin could give you a music.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
All right. So now we're gonna go on to our
next segment, which is uh listener mail.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Now it's time for listener man.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Dear Jane guest, there's so many choices in life and
such a limited time. How do you know you're leading
the life you're supposed to be leading?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Oh about it?
Speaker 5 (42:47):
How do you feel you ship? I think it's a feeling.
I'm pretty much. No, I'm doing the right thing. It
took a while, but I started, you know, music. I
thought I was gonna be basketball. Oh yeah, I want
to be athlete. That ship didn't I was?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I was. I was in eleventh grade on JV.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
No.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
That wasn't it that everybody thinks that. Everybody thinks they're
gonna be a professional sportsman of some kind until about
fourteen years old, and then they're either not tall enough,
you know, like this is my height exactly, And.
Speaker 5 (43:17):
Then then music right and if it felt right. But
I didn't feel I don't know complete. I wasn't all
the way like it. It didn't have the feeling that
writing and being on set and making movies and just
talking about films get me right. I know I'm on
the right path because I feel it. I feel it
in my damn spirit and my soul.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
If you had it, if there was an alternate universe
and you had to pick something else that was not
music or show is related, what would you be doing?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Real estate? Real estate, something in finance to real estate
and finance.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Yeah, I would trust you with certain findings like you.
You seem like a very presuorty guy.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
I'm terrible.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Yeah, I'm proud probably so man dispensary ship trying to
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 6 (44:05):
I would not trust you anywhere you don't get off supply.
I wait a minute, you're outside. I put you outside
to security.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
All right.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
He's saying the feeling in your heart is that? Would
you agree with that? Is the feeling in your heart?
Speaker 1 (44:28):
I would agree with that, But in the spirit of
adding saying something else, I would also say, what does
your bank account say? How long can you live? The
way that you're living and if that's like progressing financially,
and it's like because at the last show that I
was on was like twenty twenty, and that's what we're
(44:48):
in twenty five. I haven't worked in the industry for
a company or a big show since then, and I've
somehow made it and my income's grown. So that's an
indication to me that at least I'm on the right path.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
So I agree, I think. I think it's how you feel.
But there's always a part of me and it's my
culture too, you know, just like always questioning, like am
I in the right spot? Is this the thing? Shouldn't
we be doing something else? There's that there's that part
of me that's always that part. Yeah. Good, if you
can ignore that part, it is the secret happiness.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Look look at we've got seventeen dollars in that account. Yes,
say yea, at twelve you're winning.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
That's winning.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Well, now it's time for the moment of joy.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
A moment of joy.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
What gives you joy? Like, what's the thing not your kids,
not your family, not work, Like, what's the thing outside
of that that you can just pull out? Like if
you're not feeling great. You know I can do this
and feel good.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Basketball for me yeaeah, basketball is grew up playing sports.
Thought I was going to the NBA. Separated my shoulder
on Friday the thirteenth, two thousand and four, the day
before my sister's birthday, and was never the same on
the court, but watching it, still participating five to ten.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
So you thought you got an NBA career.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I thought I was going to be on. I thought
I was going to transfer after two years from a Jay,
from a from a D two to a D one.
Then I was going up.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
I just get on somebody a little perspective on that
shoulder injury, right.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I was gonna get on somebody's bench and get two
years of satary and flip that.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Okay, the shoulder was bad. I'm not saying that there
was bad. I'm just saying that was god going.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
But you think you're still going to continue? We got
to do something drastic, right. It waited till my last
game though.
Speaker 4 (46:45):
Okay, good at that all right? So so then you
got your shoulder industry and injury, and now what gives
you what gives.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
You joy, it's still playing basket basketball, playing basketball stuff
like that. I mean, I'm a shooter, so I can
hit from anywhere on the court. Yeah, I can hit.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
Anyone way on the outside.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
We can put money on that. Yeah. Really, I have
a shot of basketball and maybe four or five months
I'm hitting off the top. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Wow, wow, okay, it too all. You can give me
a basketball and a and a hoop and no one
between me and the hoop, and I will not sink
a basket for like eight shots, I'll go. I'll go
one for eight.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Get you a little closer in the Paint'll rile the
ball even in the paint. By the way, did you
ever play like Sony's got those courts up there?
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I played.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I played basketball. We used to play my very first
job on the Tracy Omens Show. We had these courts
in twentyth century Fox, and we used to play all
the time. Okay, so basketball is your thing for sure.
Speaker 5 (47:48):
I know it's so corny as hell, but to be honest,
if I could just sit back and watch a good
old eighties nineties nostalgia vibe movie of bringing me back
to childhood, Like, if I can do that and eat
good have waffle House waffle House All Star Special and
then a good about foe dubies.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's that's that's pure just life. That's that's bliss.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
That edible is no good. That's edibles get you a
little too.
Speaker 5 (48:20):
I can't control my edible action too much, and it's
all in like the blood stream, and shit is different.
I feel like I'm tripping almost. It's almost like a
mini trip. Well all right, well, uh, I appreciate you both.
Thank you Byron, thank you justin. Uh, you have been
an incredible guess. Uh, you broke the age barrier of
most of my guests twenty years.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
That's pretty good.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
Un yes, uh, and uh, you know, I wish you
incredible success and I wish me incredible success with you,
I'm going to be milking the profits off of whatever
we we get done together. Enough, So thank you, thanks
for being here, and I expect to be a guest
on your podcast, Yes you will. Thank you. All right,
thank you and thank you for being here. Please don't
(49:07):
be alone. If you have an opportunity to have a
conversation with friends, go do it. What are you waiting for?
And write me at dB A w j K at
gmail dot com with all your questions and suggestions and
we'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Don't be alone with jj cog
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