May 13, 2025 • 48 mins
We talk about deciding if you are a writer or a performer, confidence in bad joke, comedy as team sport, Neal being “groupless”, John McEnroe’s good sportsmanship, gratitude, the day the Chappelle Show died, ayahuasca & MDMA & how it made him believe in God.
Bio: Neal Brennan has been a force in comedy for over three decades with both his own standup performances as well as working behind the scenes as co-creator of Chappelle's Show and writing, producing and directing with other comedians like Chris Rock, Amy Schumer and Seth Meyers. His landmark Netflix specials, 3 Mics, Blocks, & Crazy Good set the standard for comedy. On his ‘Blocks’ podcast, Neal talks in depth with people about their issue. Neal continues to perform comedy around Los Angeles and the world.
Bio: Neal Brennan has been a force in comedy for over three decades with both his own standup performances as well as working behind the scenes as co-creator of Chappelle's Show and writing, producing and directing with other comedians like Chris Rock, Amy Schumer and Seth Meyers. His landmark Netflix specials, 3 Mics, Blocks, & Crazy Good set the standard for comedy. On his ‘Blocks’ podcast, Neal talks in depth with people about their issue. Neal continues to perform comedy around Los Angeles and the world.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Neil Brennan and you're watching Don't Be Alone
with Jake Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Don't Be Alone with jj Cogan. Hey, don't be a loners.
It's me Jake Cogan. Ryan giggles. You like that one,
all right? It's me Jake Cogan, and you're here on
Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. And it's a spectacular
show for you today, unlike all those other days with
(00:31):
all those terrible shows. But before I get to my guest,
which is probably a big secret because you couldn't possibly
have seen the name of the guest before you clicked
let me listen. But on a chance that you're just
a listener who always listens, you do click in no
matter who it is. I'm going to save it as
a little surprise for the three of you who do that.
(00:53):
But I just want to thank all of you for
subscribing to the show. The people who subscribe are my
favorite people, and we're getting more and more subscribers every month,
and I'm happy about that. If you have any questions
or comments that you'd like to give me, please email
me at Dbawjka at gmail dot com. I love your
(01:14):
viewer mail questions that I ask here on the show.
Please send me your viewer mail questions for me and
my guest, even though you don't know who the guest is,
just a general question for your life that you want
two random strangers to answer. How hard is that? It's easy?
So today's guest is somebody I'm really excited about. This
is a guy I'm a huge fan of, Neil Brennan.
(01:35):
Neil is a writer, he's a director, but primarily these
days he's a stand up comedian. And his specials on
Netflix are fantastic. He's got several of them that are great.
The three Mic special is historic block special, also fantastic,
and the latest one is called Crazy Good and it
is really really well. Dare I say crazy good. He's
(01:56):
been through a lot, He's had quite a journey, fighting depression,
fighting different issues in his life, and he's gotten to
kind of a happy place right now. And I want
to find all about that, and about his method and
what he thinks about comedy, and what he thinks about
me starting to perform maybe sometimes, so we'll hear all
about that right after this. Don't be alone with JJ
(02:26):
Neil Brennan. I'm going to do an official introduction. Thank
you for being here, pleasure. You're not only one of
my favorite comedians a great writer, but you're like a
podcast guy. Like you've had three podcasts.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I guess I'm the thing about podcasts that are though
I don't they're not center in my life. Like they've
always been like, yeah, yeah, let's do this, but I've
never been like, listen to my podcast, right, obviously listen
to my podcast, but I do listen to your podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Blocks is a fantastic podcast. It has a certain weird
depth to it that you don't expect from this kind of.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I don't think it's weird at this point. I think
I think you know this is going to be very
shall sure sure, sure the patron saint of depth, Mark Maron,
has he cleared the cleared the path I guess for
all of us to come. I mean, at the second one,
there's an arms race of who can be the most vulnerable.
And that's the new that's a new show. Bized talent
(03:25):
is vulnerability. I guess in the last ten years, it's
like a real it's a thing.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I'm banking on it. I mean, I am willing to
be very vulnerable. All the time, and you seem to
be true. Yeah. I said, like, that's that's that's that's
that's something I can do, which is be Did you
always be honest? Kind of? Yeah? Did? People like it
sometimes and sometimes not? You know, do you wear hard
(03:51):
on your sleeve too much? People get annoyed?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But again, that's not really a comedy writer's no top traait.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
No, I'm not the sort of the walled off comedy writer. Yeah,
well take that back. I am walled off emost the
other thing. But I am willing to be honest and
forthright about who I am and what my issue.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I'm wearing a button down with a T shirt under it.
That's a tribute to comedy writers.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Let me button it.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
But Mark Maron, when I listen to Mark Maren's podcast,
I feel like he's talking mostly about Mark Maren. Well,
that's a whole others. But you really insightful into your gain.
I just heard Carol Reliefer. Yeah, and you're just like.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I wanted to know about why she became a lesbian.
You're zooming in. The truth is I'm just nosy. I'm nosy,
but I also think I don't care about small talk,
and I don't I feel like show business pretty well
covered in terms of like every when people sometimes people
(04:55):
DM me like how do I become a commedie? And
I'm like, dude, if you don't know, if you still
don't know, when there's thousands, if not hundreds of thousands
of hours of people explaining their process, like you're faking
true or you're too dumb.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
People aren't really asking how they're actually what's the secret.
I don't have to do any work.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
To get They're saying, hey, how can I become you
without having to waste that thirty years.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Exactly exactly, and and how do they Well, I'm here
to say there is no way. Well, uh, I am
listening happily listening to the podcast. I've been a big
fan of your comedy specials, thank you, and they're really good,
even the funny, even though not Sad one, not Sad one,
(05:43):
which which is great, that's the last one crazy good.
But you know, people talk about blocks and three mics
two in another way because all of those three specials
have their own artistry to them. They're not just I'm
going to sell tell jokes. They feel like you're giving
us more than that and that is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The first two Yeah, the last one, I can't really
say that, not like there was no artistry. I guess
it's just more.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You're standing in front of what seems to be synapses.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
They seem like synapses to some people, yes, to other
people they seem like tree branches, and to other people
they seem like uh, blood vessels and other which it's
almost intentional, so so so yeah, so yeah, that's the
only artistry. And that was expensive, by the way, I
would like to let the people know that was that
(06:37):
backdrop you got? What is that? Was that ten grand
no higher? That came out of my pocket. So I
hope you liked it.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I did, really did enjoy it, and I enjoyed the
color change through the Yes, thank you very thought out,
very beautiful. And you also told most men how to
have sex properly, give orgasms better.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
There's this a way that you where you don't blow
it at the end, or don't don't just you can
if you're consistent. There is a way, right a R right,
that's correct, that's right, single rhythm and force.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, so this is I was sitting there watching the
special with my son, and I hope that he's twenty three, wonderful.
I hope that he really got the message.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, I did the specially in front of my mother. Okay,
so God bless that's that's fair. But maybe she's got
ten kids so she understands our.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, Neil, you're so kind to be here, and I'm
really grateful. I would like you to know that the
show Don't Be Along with Jay Cogan is about me
talking about my problems. Sorry, welcome.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Great.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So you're here to solve two.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And you're pretending it's about other people not being alone. No,
it's only about me. It's about you. Turn up.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
We're clear alone as calling people should not be alone.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That you're talking to yourself. Don't don't be alone broadcast.
This is why I do it in personally, it's got
to face to face. I need I need friends. I
need friends. What are your problems?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, I have two problems, but I think you're particularly
suited to help me with you One is am I
a writer? Or am I performer? I am torn between
these two things?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, have you performed a lot? I started were pretty
charismatic for a right, I started out give you.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That as an actor, as a comedian and an improviser
at the Groundlings and do to all that kind of stuff.
And I failed into writing?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Did Conan fail into writing before he returned as a performer?
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
A little?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I'm assuming he's the same. Yeah, we have the same trajectory. Yeah,
we have the same trajectory. Yes, the same years is
he's a he's We're the same age.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
He's a little month older than me. But I was
a little more advanced. I was at the groundings before
he was. I started doing stand up before he was.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, I kind of think you are whatever you're you
want to.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I want to know you, but you seem to be
your writer. We're a writer. Yeah, And I've heard you
say on your podcast one of the reasons you became
a performer was because you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Prove your jokes were good.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Pretty true. Like I was writing, I was in my
early twenties, and I was like I would get rejected
and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is funny.
I'm pretty sure I'm funny, right, and this is funny.
And then I did stand up once when I was
twenty three, once when I was like eighteen, once when
I was twenty three and then twenty nine. I'd like
(09:26):
to take long breaks and think it over.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
And then I've talked about breaks. I stopped performing stand
up comedy when I was twenty two, and I'm doing
it again on.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Thursday, fantastic, So that's about a thirty six year break. Yeah,
so it was mostly about like confirming that I'm not crazy. Yeah,
and so so then I then then I guess I
was a comedian and a writer. Well, yeah, I was
comedian writer. I don't know what I said. I never
(09:57):
really officially stopped writing, although I think it was just
a matter of Ali Wong, the Great Alley Wong said
stop helping famous people. So around twenty I don't know,
twenty twenty probably was the last time I helped famous
It's good to.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Help famous people, though it's kind of fun. You get
the ride in the jet planes and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah it yeah, but it's sort of diminishing returns. I
mean it's you know, right, you know what I mean.
Like there's certain people, Well that's one of those things.
I don't mind writing for someone who's like I think
is funnier than me, right, Like Ellen I think is
funny than me. And Day it's funny to me, Like,
you know, there's a few people that I'm like, yeah,
you're like, you have a skill that I do not have,
(10:43):
and so there are a few people that I don't
and I'll still help, not even help. I'll just give
somebody like a tag or give somebody something. But I
won't I'm not I'm not spending more than ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
But that's what good comedians do. That good, really good
comedians give another comedian to tag.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I don't even think it's I actually have gotten very
few tags from me, and the ones I have gotten
weren't from what you'd consider good comedians, what you would
consider good comedians. The audience likes them, but like they're
not snob comedians, you know, yeah, some of it.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I'm a snob.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, of course, So you're an unhappy snob. Sure, you're
a superior being with an inferior or I.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Just happened to be superior. It's not my fault.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So now I just consider myself a comedian. The funny
thing was Jerry Seinfeld did my podcast and he said,
do you ever have that thing when you're on stage
and you go, I'm not a comedian, I'm a writer,
and I was like, yeah, I have it, do you?
And he's like, oh yeah, which is insane because if
if he's not a comedian, then who.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Is he's the poster for comedian. I exactly, Well, I
mean that that's a very interesting thought, and I wonder
I often see performers whose performance style far outpaces their comedy.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yes, there are the Hall of Fame is or the
Mount Rushman, whatever you want to say, is all great
performers who were also great writers. They're they're like the
over the the the the overlap is very small, and
it is like, whoever your favorite comedian is there on
that list of Like Chapelle is an amazing performer and
(12:25):
a fucking amazing right, So it's there are certain people
that Chris same thing. It's like he was a great right,
Chris Rock, great writer and made himself a great performer,
like willed himself into Ellen, great writer, a great performer,
great like has perfect vocal pitch for comedy, sounds like
a flute, and is like acerbic and funny like.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
She's had that for for many nineteen eighty one exactly amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, and it finally led her to England, as we
all saw that coming.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Sure, Yeah, I don't know. It's weird how America turns
on people. Yeah, it's kind of strange. I'm hoping like,
if I get more successful, maybe America will turn on me.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah. I mean it's it's getting late in the day day.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
When you were a young man saying I have these
jokes and they are funny, and they're being rejected, and
I want to prove the the young writer's confidence in
their material is a beautiful thing. But as it as
I get older, as I've gotten older, my confidence my
material has has waned because I've seen things that I absolutely, positively,
(13:36):
one hundred percent thought were going to work over time,
and some of them or many of them don't. Always.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, and you've convinced a lot of people, yeah, that
you and angrily convinced them right that, like, now, fuck you,
this is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I told the like I was working for James L. Brooks,
this is gonna work. You're wrong, man, you don't get it.
You don't get it. And then I would I would
insist my joke would work, and you know, sometimes they would,
but a lot of times, like oh sorry, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
When did you on which show there? Worked?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
On the Tracy Almonshaw and The Simpsons.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, but I'm saying, so the Simpsons, you couldn't tell
if a joke worked or not.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Right, Well, we only liked it. If we liked it
it worked for us, and if we got to I've
got to laugh at the read through, we consider that
the audience.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But you also know the read through audience is like not.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah no, but I mean that's we didn't we had
no other gauge.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
But I'm not I'm just wondering, like, where could you
bomb at the Simpsons? That was just that was snobs,
snobby judge.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
One of those things where it's because we rewrote it
everything so many times. Really great jokes died after hearing
it eight times. Yeah, and you just have to rewrite
that joke.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah yeah, So like is that the I mean, obviously
it worked.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
No, but that Tracy almshow was in front of a
live audience, so I would insist this joke would work
or this premise would work, and then if it didn't work,
that's on me.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, And it is confusing. Yeah, when you're sure and
you're like, wait a minute, it was just it's you've
got a map and you're like, no, it was right here, right,
I swear the treasure map says to come this way
and then there's an ax here.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
And but that youthful confidence is fantastic, and I don't
have it so much anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, now you have to have wise old man coming exactly.
Don't be alone with.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I'm told by people I respect that one, and Chris
Rock is one of them that part of being a
great comic is not caring if you bomb, not caring
so much.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, I I don't. It still stings, right, And I
can tell you firsthand of Rock bombs. He does not
like it, like you know, it's like it.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
It is.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The more and longer you do it, the more it's
just like, ah, put it on my tab like it's
I'm still in the in the blacks as so to speak.
So so you know, I don't like bombing. I don't
think it's it's not I could do the you know,
you don't panic. I don't panic. But it's still bombing.
You're still being rejected by a group of people that
(16:24):
you told do you had a you it signed some
sort of contract that t it deal with people. I'll
be funny. And then you you were you're in breach
standing in front of Sometimes it's their fault, man. No,
I mean yeah, yes, but yes occasionally, but like you're
(16:44):
better off thing, it's your fault.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
No, I do. I think it's my fault.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Change a joke you're talking about when you did it
thirty six years ago.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, and when I'm about to do it, it's like,
I'll change it, Joe if it does not work. And
I will absolutely change a joke.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And there's no if you tried three times and it
didn't work twice, it doesn't work right. Yeah, I don't
know what to tell you. I don't know what Chris thinks,
but I can tell you the ship's not going to
work right.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
But he's the point is, do you have to be
okay saying stuff that doesn't work sometimes to just get
past me?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah? I mean I there's a line in Crazy Good
that I did once and it didn't work, and then
I was like, I'm pretty sure that should work. And
I tried it on the special at Worked, which one
it was talking about comedians being like moral arbiters, and
I said, like, at what point did people go like,
what did the clown is great? I know when I
(17:34):
did it once and it didn't work, and I was like,
I don't know, yeah, and it was stupid to do
it on a live on the second taping, but like
cut it.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Out, Yeah, exactly, fantastic that it was great, Thank you here.
But here's the thing. Are you did you always want
to be on stage performing? It doesn't sound like it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I was always under the impression that I was happy
to be a writer, like I genuinely was. So then
once Chappelle show in the way I did, and I
was like, I gotta figure out a way to exist
without dependence on another person. And now I guess it's like,
did I always want to be a full fledged commis?
(18:12):
I don't know. I liked writing. I really did like
writing for people.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Right, But it sounds like because what Chappelle ended the
way it ended, and I have to trust me, I
have to put myself in the driver's seat of what
I'm doing, which is the same thing as Ali Wong's advice,
which is by necessity you kind of become a performer,
but not by necessarily by dream.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Here's what I what what I think I believe about myself?
Are you Are you a John McEnroe fan. Yeah, I've
read his book. I think I've read two of his books,
if you can believe it. But he said that he
always wanted to be on to play team sports, and
then there was something about tennis that he just didn't find.
(18:55):
Singles tennis he didn't care about as much as he
cared about doubles more. He heard about Davis cupmore. He
always he played soccer for as long as he could.
He liked being on a team.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Well, he always seems like a go along, get along
kind of.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
But that's the funny thing. I mean, if he'd only
played a team sport, it might be much happier. So
it was all a cry for help. So so I
it still am of the mind that I want. I'm
always like, hey, let's all live in a dorm together,
let's all live and be on a team, and we're
all supporting each other. And hey, I liked introducing people
(19:30):
to other people and this guy's great and and I
don't so I think that's what I liked about being
a comedy right. Like I remember the first writing job
I got. I was like, man, this is great. It
was so fun. We were all in a bullpen, so cool.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I love I love group writing. I love being on
a staff. I love hanging out with people. And I
made the mistake at one point of thinking these are
my lifelong friends.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Like I still make the mistake.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I have people Conor and Brian is a is A
is a lifelong friend. I have people at the Simpsons
who are lifelong friends. Matt Sellman is a lifelong and
some people who I thought were my friends and turns
out not so.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I've I personally found that very disappointed. It breaks.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
It's a little heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Customers to say very disappointing is an understateable how it
may be.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I'm a little boy, I'm a little child in that
as moments and that really hurts my feelings.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
M yeah, I'm in the very same boat. I might
be the captain of that.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
All right. Well, it's also being part of community. Community
has real value. Yeah, And it's not just the community
of people who can help you or the community of
people who are on the way up and the community
of people who are you know, important, it's the community.
It's the wider community.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
That's what I mean. The reason I'm here. It's like
I don't I don't because I you're Jacob, Like I
don't know like, why wouldn't I there was there was
a comedian who wasn't paying his openers well, and I
had an imaginary conversation with him, as most of my conversations,
and I said, if you're not gonna pay comedians, who
will you pay?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Right? Like?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Who are you? Are you if you're not inclined to
give another person who, like you know what it is
to be a comedian, fucking give them a little money
to help them out, like even just the going rate,
right right, Yeah, But it was kind of like, well,
they're not here for you. That was his I heard
that was his own. It's like, dude, fucking who do
(21:37):
you Like? You'll pay the gardener, but you won't pay
a commed so whatever. So I'm I am predisposed to
give comedians and writers the benefit of doubt.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Who did you?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Who was your your group?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You came up with?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Well, that's one of my problems is that I don't
my my group was I work the door at a
comedy club in the you know, the boss common to
come in the early nineties and like, so it wasn't
really my group, but there was that I was eighteen,
Chappelle was eighteen. A guy named Jaymore was nineteen, and
(22:13):
then everybody else was like twenty seven, which is a
big difference. And the twenty seven year olds were like
Louis Marin Hotel, John Stewart, Ray Romono, like Warren Hutcherson.
I forget Sarah Silver. Sarah was more, but she was
more of their class. And so it so Dave was
(22:34):
kind of my only classmate. And then but I wasn't
a comedian. There was just like a lot of inxtenuating circumstances.
And then by the time I become a comedian, Chappelle's
show has gone down. So it's like, now I'm like
a wealthy people think producer. So that's not really or
like I'm I'm a I'm kind of Neto time.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Isolating a little bit. You feel a little isolated from.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, I'm not quite in a group, right, I got it.
And then now when people kind of I still don't
think I'm in a group.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
All right, well you're in my group. Thanks, you're in
my group. It's a shitty group. I'm sorry to meet
you for the first I apologize that my group is
so shabby, really, but it's but it's your group if
you want it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's local.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I was a dormant at the Improv when I was
a young man in eighty two eighty three. It was
around uh well, I've watched Jerry Seinfeld walk by and
I would watch uh. Leno was absolutely there, and Maria
Branford was was actually there sometimes and early days of her.
(23:39):
Richard Lewis was huge, you know that that era of people.
And it was fun to be there, fun to watch.
I got to perform at you know, three in the
morning or whatever, like the shitty shitty hours. But it
was a bad environment, like it's a clubs like that
for a very young person. For me, I felt weird
(24:00):
at why I'm a I'm not. I don't drink, don't
do drugs.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's a problem. And I say that, yeah, I'm not
even being no, I know, like not drinking. That's another
one of my is, Like I don't it's hard. People
don't like having you around.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right, so you feel like a burden to people. And
it just wasn't right down the street right here at
the Groundlings Theater. I was much more at home. That
was much more of my people because we were and
I learned how to write and learned how to write
characters in comedy, but it was just a whole different vibe,
and it was like, Okay, let's not you know, there's
not drunk people bar yelling at you and that kind
(24:40):
of stuff. I had to grow up a little bit
to feel like I'm I'm worthy of hanging out a Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There's a level of hostility at comedy clubs.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
When Chappelle's show is going gangbusters, my audiences for then
I do thirties. I try to use as many snappy.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Phrase upon your Brooklyn Dodgers.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Hat and and Dave Baiales without warning.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
What what's that day?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Like? What's the day day? The day off?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
The day wasn't great? Yeah, it was you at work?
I went, Yeah, I went to work, went was on
set waiting right, and uh, Danny was he He tended
to be late, but this was this was extraordinarily right.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
So then I started texting people, and then I found
out where he was that I couldn't say anything right
where he was, but he wasn't anywhere.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Near So so now so you're caught between your loyalty
today and the studio who needs to find out. So
you're put in an even worse position.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So if you can imagine I didn't really do anything.
I just went home and uh like just waited for
it to unfold.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Okay, And and when it ultimately unfold did the way
it did and said, okay, we're done. How did that go?
It was awful?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Were you blamed?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I was?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I was sort of blamed in that there was an
article where he said that a white person laughed at
him in a way he didn't like. I was the
only white person anyone knew. So I think there were
people that were like, well, it had to be him,
but meanwhile, it wasn't me. And even the person who laughed,
that's just the way the guy laughed, like he'd laughed
(26:30):
like that for two years. So so, uh so I
was sort of blamed, I think vaguely.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
So did you have to give back money? No?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I didn't have to give any but I didn't get
what I what I what have or whatever?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, that's a bummer. What a bummer? It's a bummer.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I mean, it's a it's a I think I think
it qualified for super bummer because.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
When you're doing something and you and I assume you
were enjoying it. I loved it and having a great
time and having some this creative freedom that you almost
never get, Yeah, and have that pulled away from you
is a real Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
It was. I liked writing, I liked I liked I
liked having a sketch show, and I liked the I
liked making sketches and and so it was great to
make sketches with somebody, somebody that I loved and like,
(27:30):
you know, it's like I happen to like playing violin
a strata?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Areus like I like? Like I liked I loved sketches.
Before we did the show, I was scouting. We did
a sketch about Kinkos that I and I scouted locations
to just shoot a sketch at a Kinkos before we
had we were going to do the show.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Like, I just liked sketches. So it was a it
was a cool, cool thing to be able to do.
It was a cool thing to It was a cool opportunity.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
How did you and Dave've ultimately reconcile that?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I don't know that that we've officially reconciled that meaning
like it's one of those kind of like we just
don't talk about it, Okay, it's uh.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I cannot certainly empathize and understand if things are going
nuts and you feel like you must escape and what like,
I understand that. Yeah, but I'm you know, I come
from the school of suffer. Suffer for the sake of
all the people who are working around you, you know, Like.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, I mean there's a part of me that respects
Dave's commitment. They're not a part of me, like a
huge part of me like respects Dave's absolute commitment to quality.
Like I was thinking, yes, say where he would It
would just be like chain me. He would just chain
himself to a tree, right and be like, no, I'm
(28:50):
not doing whatever you whatever you There was a buddy
of ours, Keith Robinson, had a joke back then about
why black people would be bad Al Qaeda hostages because
it'd be like, cut my head off, should chop it off?
I don't give a fuck chop my head off. I'm
not saying what you want me to say.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
So well, that happened to a friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Got his head chopped off, Daniel Pearl. Ye, sorry about that.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's all right, don't blame you anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
There was a time, of course, it was I.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Grew up elementary school, high school. Yeah, he would not
say what they wanted him to say. Ultimately, yep and yep,
so so I people and some Jews. Yes, yeah, so
they have one thing in common al Qaeda. So you know,
I I respect that. But it was a it was very,
(29:42):
very difficult, and I think still hurts me now, right
true truthfully before podcasting we are we Are, Yeah, I
would say still hurts me now, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's a.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
It's a.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's a at this point, it's a dull scar, whereas
for years I would say, may a decade it was
an open pussing wounds.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Okay, so sorry, yes, yeah, I I totally I totally
understand that thing. I've I've the heartbreak of everything in
the shows, little bits of heartbreak everywhere. You know, when
when you get rejected or you try to sell a
show and the show doesn't get picked up, or you
have a show and the show is canceled, and they're
all punches in the gut. This seems like a particularly
(30:27):
rough punchy.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It was like it was also just that it was
so personal, like the whole show was personal, so it
was it was it was, Yeah, there's just nothing good
about it, nothing good about the way it ended. Yeah,
but although although we left a sexy corpse.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
You did right. People love the show and and but
you're still you talk with Dave and Okay, that's good.
That's that's important. That's important, I feel like And again
this goes back to the friendships are more important than
work I do.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I agree, you're you live in the wrong town
for that, But.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Don't be alone with I have a second problem that
you can help me. Okay, you have famously on your
two prior specials before Crazy Good, we're talking about how
difficult a time you were having with depression and getting
(31:41):
through your issues. And again, being a student of yours
and listening to your podcast, I hear that you're you
feel better now in general and that and that specifically
you're feeling better. You did, you know, took a lot
of different Kenemine things. But gratitude.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, the long answer is ayahuasca. Okay. So first ayahuasca,
then yes, it got me to gratitude ayahuasca, and then
weirdly m D M A Okay, ayahuasca opened me up,
and then M D M A uh got me to gratitude.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I have so many friends who have had positive experiences
that way. And a few have had negative experiences.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
On ayahuascar MDMA both yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Uh and sort of like, and I'm I'm interested.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
In ayahuasca is not for the faint of heart. It
can go a lot of different ways. It's gone a
lot of different ways for me.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Okay, well tell me the good of it.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well, the good of it is with ayahuasca was I
got I was an atheist, and then I became Uh,
I felt that god force which I don't in the
in the ceremony, and that's has lasted. Okay, so and
(33:00):
I'm not and it's and his name is Jesus Christ. No,
there's no, there's no, it's non denominational. It's not about it.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It's not Yeah, people talk about this too.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, absolutely and uh. And then m D M A
I was. I took a few times and one of
the times, I was like, you know, forgiving my enemies
and sort of like felt very great and and and
felt very loving. And I was like, well, what was
the difference, what's the difference? Why could I do that?
(33:29):
On M medium? And what I realized was because I
because I I basically didn't have any cortisol in my brain,
and my brain is a it likes is a pretty
good producer of cortisol uh, the stress hormone min too. Yeah,
(33:51):
And I realized, like I have to figure this out.
And the way I did it was I just started
ignoring my my negative thoughts. I was just like it
straight up, like go no, thank you, or just some way. Well,
they say.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
That if you take ketmine or other forms of mdm A,
that that it allows you to separate out.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It takes the default mode network offline.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
It resets everything, and so you're allowed to create new
pathways and new thoughts and new ways of being.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
But it's not effortless at all. It is like I
have to now I journal. You know. I was talking
to Ryan Wilson about it on his Somebody's podcast and
I was talking about how Islam has the right idea
about praying four times a day and he goes, well,
why don't you gratitude journal four times a day? It
was like fine, right, And I've been doing that, okay
(34:41):
for over a year now, and it's really helpful. It's
like having a it's like self coaching.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
So what makes you You've gone through this exhaustive search
and you found some measure of peace, which is fantastic
and congratulations. You know, I salute you and try to
walk in those same footsteps at some point. But uh,
what brings you to the insight that you had to
do that and the insight I hear when you talk
(35:10):
to people on your podcast. You can sit with somebody
and identify kinda pretty quickly who they are, kind of
what's driving them, what the history was that got into
the thing. Like, that's pretty interesting that you have that ability.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, a lot of psychotherapy. Okay, uh, better help slash yourself,
betterhelp dot com slash. They are not paying a dime
for the show.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Health is not saying that's the day people are not
nobody nobody, Yeah the uh the yeah that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I think that's pattern recognition, probably just like a little
bit of autism, and then there's a.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Certain amount of empathy and there's a certain amount of
of putting yourself in the other person's head that that's
a that's a that's a little trick of the trade.
That's a little thing that you can do that that
that's kind of nice.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I think maybe, I mean, I think that's probably partially
being a writer. I mean, I think that is pattern
recognition of like or or I'll give myself more credit.
Maybe it's a theory of mind of like what would
I what would I think in this situation? Like or
or curiosity about how someone comes to a you know,
(36:31):
realization or decision. That's what's great about novels, honestly, is
it's the only form where you are inside of somebody. Right,
It's not just voiceover.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah I do. I do first person narration only in
all my TV shows.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Fantastic. But even that's a dialogue, right, I know. But
even first person narration is just like I had to
get to the docks. It's not like to find my
wife's murder. There's no there's It's so shallow.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
It's stupid. No, I know. I teach writing courses. I say, please,
don't ever have a narrator.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I don't mind a narrator. It is, it is organizic.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Don't have your tough characters talk out loud to themselves.
That's a cheat.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So I've had this discussion of people before, I talk
out loud to myself.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I don't care. I don't want to see it in
a movie.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
It's like, why not?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
It feels like a writing It's just an easy writing cheat.
Even if it's real. Even though it's real that sometimes
in a magical phone call comes exactly the right time
you need it to, you don't do it because it
looks like bad writing.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So you don't like when somebody says, where am I?
That kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah? Yeah, they wake up in a strange land, and
then are you done with mine? We know, we know
you're confused at your location? We got it, we got that.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, you like when they look at their hands and going,
and now that my friend is good writing, I want
to actually.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
You want to see it all right? So there are
questions that people have sent in. I love this time
for question time.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I love it is.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
So what makes something funny?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I still don't know. No, I mean, I don't know.
It's a thousand things to make something funny, Like it's
impossible to even answer that.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Surprise, surprise, hyper you know, yeah, extending situations finding?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Is this a sleep aid? Yes? This is melatonin, verbal melotones.
Maybe I don't know a bunch of if you, I
don't know, I usually don't. I'm having a hostile response
to this, and I don't I don't know.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
What's funny enough? Let me ask and change the question
what's funny enough to be in your act. It doesn't,
It doesn't. No joke is going to be different. And
this you might relate to.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
This is like level of difficulty and original thought. That's
the I think those are the two as a right comedian,
those are the two things like you aspire to, at
least I aspire to of like have I seen this?
And if I have, is this different enough? And or
(39:14):
is it not derivative? Because at a certain point you've
kind of warned Michaels had said something. I'm sure he
says it all the time, but said it to me
one time, which is he's like, it was a sketch
and I'd seen the sketch six times. I'd probably written
it myself twice. Like, so there are sort of formats
or whatever. But but original thought and and level of
(39:41):
difficulty is it? Is it like a complex structure.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
So you're aiming at quality? Yeah, I would call that quality.
But how about response? Does if a joke there's some
jokes that that tear down the house and some jokes
that get a milder I.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Don't a joke that terrorist in the house is the
best joke that I that's I.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I have no what will you accept?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
In fact, I used to argue with Sure about that,
which is like, I don't want to nobly bomb. There's
no but just like.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
They're like a medium laugh.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Like a New Yorker cartoon laugh. No, that's a no
laugh at all.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
That's a h h yeah, but a laugh like a
moderate laugh versus a big laugh.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
If it's in the service of a big laugh, where
it's around a big laugh, then keep it. But otherwise
I'm my favorite story, and I think it's true. As
Mike Myers used to just edit Austin Powers movies by
audio of like he would just send like the the
the editors would get the audio of the test screening. Right,
(40:44):
You're like, all right, well that we have to take
this part right, that would be the brometer. It's like
it either works or it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Obviously there's grades gradients within that.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
But you know, three mics was a creative take on
stand up special, very entertaining. What comedian dead or alive
would Neil like to see performed the three meg format.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
There was some talk with Netflix about having other people
do it. Uh, I mean what I think people A
lot of people have done a version of it and
without call I mean the people have gotten more emo
in stand up. I mean I'd love to see great
(41:27):
comics to it. Dave Chris, Louie Mulaney, Jim Jefferies, Bill Burr,
Ali Wanda Sarah, George carl And, Bill Hicks, Richard Pryor,
Richard Jenny. Who do I mortsl I genuine I love Mortzal,
but but yeah, so I would like any comedian worth
(41:50):
their salt to do it.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Was mort Sal like who is the like?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Growing up? Like, well, Mortsaul is the apparently he was
like a pain in the ass. But but but in
terms of like what he did, he like invented a
kind of the way people started doing stand up. He
was like the the the the James Dean of stand
up in that like he did it in a new way,
(42:15):
or the Marlon Brando. And and then he volunteered to
help solve the Kennedy assassination, which was on his own dime,
which is like, I don't know, I don't, I can't.
That seems like better than doing a USO tour, I
guess in terms of but it was because he liked
(42:35):
I don't think you're saying the way you said, I
guess I'm assuming you consider it like a conspiracy theorist.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
No, I just like I think I think it still
hasn't been solved, Like it's it's one of those things
where like, Okay, you can devote your life to that,
or you can try to be funny. I would you know, Yeah, fine,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I see it as like he knew the guy and
was like, I don't think he saw it as like
a continuation of his comedy. I just think it's if
you're inspired, I'm inspired by the fact that he was like,
I'm going to do that now. Or it's like Dick Gregory,
like being a comedian then being a civil rights activist
and then being a dietitian and just like whatever you're
(43:12):
inspired to do and you do it, that shit's cool. Yeah,
I agree, Instead of like I gotta I gotta do
a sitcom, I got it, like all the stuff you're
supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Right, Well, you're not supposed to do sitcoms anymore than
single camera free of that, no laugh track, turn the tables,
Jay and let Neil ask you what he'd ask you
if you were on blocks. Well, that's unfair. That's that
takes research.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
You got people and blocks.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
You have people fill out of form people people.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I make people feel right? What the I made? I
made Ken Burns do it?
Speaker 3 (43:43):
I love? It's pretty great. He did it. Yeah, it's
it's great. Are people ever unforthcoming? Well?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I think like certain people just don't want to do it,
and but I can. I kind of know their blocks anyway,
So they don't want to. They just I just didn't
want I don't want to bug Bill Burke fucking just
screaming at me. So but I we did it. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
You are not a traditional looking performer. You kind of
look more normal, like a normal person. I don't know
what that means. It's not a does it help your
comedy or do you have to do things to compensate.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Jesus Christ? Is this from a surgeon? Surgeon? Maybe Beverly
Hills nine o two.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
I don't know. I mean, like comedians generally speaking, there's
a wide.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
For these beautiful comedians. Am I am I as gorgeous
as saying Chris Rock or Dave. I'm not a model
like Bill Burr.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
He goes to more of what the what you said
at the beginning, were you sort of like charisma.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Hey, Like, do I go out and go like it's
star timed? Like I don't wear a cape to the
side of the stage. But I think people don't. I
think if you present yourself uh charisma or with you know,
(45:04):
integrity or something, I don't think. I don't think people
care what you look like? What's your private rather you look?
I try to look as good as I can. Sorry, listener, Uh,
but I don't. I don't think it helps or hurts.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
All right, Well, now we have listener mail.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Now it's time for listener.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Man, dear Jay and guest. We all have special skills
that help us in life. We use them to move ahead,
but as we go through life, those same skills can
prevent us from living our best life. What's your superpower
that is also your kryptonite. Here's my superpower that's also
my kryptonite. I have the ability to step back from
(45:44):
a situation and observe the world, and that kind of
helps me be a writer. It helps me protect myself
from danger and other things. But it also prevents me
from being all in in emotional situations sometimes.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
So like my wife, there's a level of remove.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Yes, and that's it's complaint I've gotten from my certainly
my wife and from other people's like, well, you're you
know there's something about you that's not fully all.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Well, that's another thing that I've been discussing with my
with my lady, is you know I'm not Maybe I'm
not the empathy machine. Maybe that's your role, right, Maybe
I'm the I have my own list of attributes. Right,
it's a joke. I didn't crazy good of Like it's
like a video game character of Like if I have
(46:33):
fifty points, I'm not gonna have points attributed to one characteristic.
I'm not gonna have for another one. I have a
lot of good attributes right speed with which I can
get to empathy about your anger at me not good? Right,
it's not gonna be good. But let's look at the
good stuff. And I'm not saying I'm not dismissing. I'm not,
(46:54):
but I'm just saying, like, but.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
It's hard to get through the fire of hearing the
criticism and it kind of expells.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
And my first instinct is who did this to you?
It's I'm not going to go I'm so sorry this
anonymous man did it. I did it right, and I
don't agree that I did it.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Exactly right, and then listening apology for something that you
don't agree you did.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yes, I don't very upset, Well, how could I possibly
do that? How could I possibly do that right?
Speaker 3 (47:22):
My wife wants an apology and then an apology after
the apology that sounds more. Yeah, since here, so.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
I to answer the my my vert my end of
it probably a similar thing of like being analytical and
being you know, anthropological about something.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
But it makes us smart and curious and gives us
so many other things. So what if we don't connect
him only to people on a deep level you like
the money or not exactly chi Ching ladies, Well, thank
you for being here. This is a great honor for
me and a slight honor for you. I don't know
if you accept it as such, but it's it's really great.
(48:11):
I'm a huge fan of your writing and of your
performing and of your podcast and all the great It's great,
and thank you for being here. Please uh come back
next time and don't be alone. Go have fun with
somebody in person, all right, talk to you later. Bye.
Don't be alone with j
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Neil Brennan and you're watching Don't Be Alone
with Jake Cogan.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Don't Be Alone with jj Cogan. Hey, don't be a loners.
It's me Jake Cogan. Ryan giggles. You like that one,
all right? It's me Jake Cogan, and you're here on
Don't Be Alone with Jake Cogan. And it's a spectacular
show for you today, unlike all those other days with
(00:31):
all those terrible shows. But before I get to my guest,
which is probably a big secret because you couldn't possibly
have seen the name of the guest before you clicked
let me listen. But on a chance that you're just
a listener who always listens, you do click in no
matter who it is. I'm going to save it as
a little surprise for the three of you who do that.
(00:53):
But I just want to thank all of you for
subscribing to the show. The people who subscribe are my
favorite people, and we're getting more and more subscribers every month,
and I'm happy about that. If you have any questions
or comments that you'd like to give me, please email
me at Dbawjka at gmail dot com. I love your
(01:14):
viewer mail questions that I ask here on the show.
Please send me your viewer mail questions for me and
my guest, even though you don't know who the guest is,
just a general question for your life that you want
two random strangers to answer. How hard is that? It's easy?
So today's guest is somebody I'm really excited about. This
is a guy I'm a huge fan of, Neil Brennan.
(01:35):
Neil is a writer, he's a director, but primarily these
days he's a stand up comedian. And his specials on
Netflix are fantastic. He's got several of them that are great.
The three Mic special is historic block special, also fantastic,
and the latest one is called Crazy Good and it
is really really well. Dare I say crazy good. He's
(01:56):
been through a lot, He's had quite a journey, fighting depression,
fighting different issues in his life, and he's gotten to
kind of a happy place right now. And I want
to find all about that, and about his method and
what he thinks about comedy, and what he thinks about
me starting to perform maybe sometimes, so we'll hear all
about that right after this. Don't be alone with JJ
(02:26):
Neil Brennan. I'm going to do an official introduction. Thank
you for being here, pleasure. You're not only one of
my favorite comedians a great writer, but you're like a
podcast guy. Like you've had three podcasts.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I guess I'm the thing about podcasts that are though
I don't they're not center in my life. Like they've
always been like, yeah, yeah, let's do this, but I've
never been like, listen to my podcast, right, obviously listen
to my podcast, but I do listen to your podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Blocks is a fantastic podcast. It has a certain weird
depth to it that you don't expect from this kind of.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I don't think it's weird at this point. I think
I think you know this is going to be very
shall sure sure, sure the patron saint of depth, Mark Maron,
has he cleared the cleared the path I guess for
all of us to come. I mean, at the second one,
there's an arms race of who can be the most vulnerable.
And that's the new that's a new show. Bized talent
(03:25):
is vulnerability. I guess in the last ten years, it's
like a real it's a thing.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I'm banking on it. I mean, I am willing to
be very vulnerable. All the time, and you seem to
be true. Yeah. I said, like, that's that's that's that's
that's something I can do, which is be Did you
always be honest? Kind of? Yeah? Did? People like it
sometimes and sometimes not? You know, do you wear hard
(03:51):
on your sleeve too much? People get annoyed?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But again, that's not really a comedy writer's no top traait.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
No, I'm not the sort of the walled off comedy writer. Yeah,
well take that back. I am walled off emost the
other thing. But I am willing to be honest and
forthright about who I am and what my issue.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I'm wearing a button down with a T shirt under it.
That's a tribute to comedy writers.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Let me button it.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
But Mark Maron, when I listen to Mark Maren's podcast,
I feel like he's talking mostly about Mark Maren. Well,
that's a whole others. But you really insightful into your gain.
I just heard Carol Reliefer. Yeah, and you're just like.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I wanted to know about why she became a lesbian.
You're zooming in. The truth is I'm just nosy. I'm nosy,
but I also think I don't care about small talk,
and I don't I feel like show business pretty well
covered in terms of like every when people sometimes people
(04:55):
DM me like how do I become a commedie? And
I'm like, dude, if you don't know, if you still
don't know, when there's thousands, if not hundreds of thousands
of hours of people explaining their process, like you're faking
true or you're too dumb.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
People aren't really asking how they're actually what's the secret.
I don't have to do any work.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
To get They're saying, hey, how can I become you
without having to waste that thirty years.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Exactly exactly, and and how do they Well, I'm here
to say there is no way. Well, uh, I am
listening happily listening to the podcast. I've been a big
fan of your comedy specials, thank you, and they're really good,
even the funny, even though not Sad one, not Sad one,
(05:43):
which which is great, that's the last one crazy good.
But you know, people talk about blocks and three mics
two in another way because all of those three specials
have their own artistry to them. They're not just I'm
going to sell tell jokes. They feel like you're giving
us more than that and that is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The first two Yeah, the last one, I can't really
say that, not like there was no artistry. I guess
it's just more.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You're standing in front of what seems to be synapses.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
They seem like synapses to some people, yes, to other
people they seem like tree branches, and to other people
they seem like uh, blood vessels and other which it's
almost intentional, so so so yeah, so yeah, that's the
only artistry. And that was expensive, by the way, I
would like to let the people know that was that
(06:37):
backdrop you got? What is that? Was that ten grand
no higher? That came out of my pocket. So I
hope you liked it.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I did, really did enjoy it, and I enjoyed the
color change through the Yes, thank you very thought out,
very beautiful. And you also told most men how to
have sex properly, give orgasms better.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
There's this a way that you where you don't blow
it at the end, or don't don't just you can
if you're consistent. There is a way, right a R right,
that's correct, that's right, single rhythm and force.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, so this is I was sitting there watching the
special with my son, and I hope that he's twenty three, wonderful.
I hope that he really got the message.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, I did the specially in front of my mother. Okay,
so God bless that's that's fair. But maybe she's got
ten kids so she understands our.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, Neil, you're so kind to be here, and I'm
really grateful. I would like you to know that the
show Don't Be Along with Jay Cogan is about me
talking about my problems. Sorry, welcome.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Great.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So you're here to solve two.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And you're pretending it's about other people not being alone. No,
it's only about me. It's about you. Turn up.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
We're clear alone as calling people should not be alone.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That you're talking to yourself. Don't don't be alone broadcast.
This is why I do it in personally, it's got
to face to face. I need I need friends. I
need friends. What are your problems?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, I have two problems, but I think you're particularly
suited to help me with you One is am I
a writer? Or am I performer? I am torn between
these two things?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, have you performed a lot? I started were pretty
charismatic for a right, I started out give you.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That as an actor, as a comedian and an improviser
at the Groundlings and do to all that kind of stuff.
And I failed into writing?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Did Conan fail into writing before he returned as a performer?
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
A little?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I'm assuming he's the same. Yeah, we have the same trajectory. Yeah,
we have the same trajectory. Yes, the same years is
he's a he's We're the same age.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
He's a little month older than me. But I was
a little more advanced. I was at the groundings before
he was. I started doing stand up before he was.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, I kind of think you are whatever you're you
want to.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I want to know you, but you seem to be
your writer. We're a writer. Yeah, And I've heard you
say on your podcast one of the reasons you became
a performer was because you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Prove your jokes were good.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Pretty true. Like I was writing, I was in my
early twenties, and I was like I would get rejected
and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is funny.
I'm pretty sure I'm funny, right, and this is funny.
And then I did stand up once when I was
twenty three, once when I was like eighteen, once when
I was twenty three and then twenty nine. I'd like
(09:26):
to take long breaks and think it over.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
And then I've talked about breaks. I stopped performing stand
up comedy when I was twenty two, and I'm doing
it again on.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Thursday, fantastic, So that's about a thirty six year break. Yeah,
so it was mostly about like confirming that I'm not crazy. Yeah,
and so so then I then then I guess I
was a comedian and a writer. Well, yeah, I was
comedian writer. I don't know what I said. I never
(09:57):
really officially stopped writing, although I think it was just
a matter of Ali Wong, the Great Alley Wong said
stop helping famous people. So around twenty I don't know,
twenty twenty probably was the last time I helped famous
It's good to.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Help famous people, though it's kind of fun. You get
the ride in the jet planes and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah it yeah, but it's sort of diminishing returns. I
mean it's you know, right, you know what I mean.
Like there's certain people, Well that's one of those things.
I don't mind writing for someone who's like I think
is funnier than me, right, Like Ellen I think is
funny than me. And Day it's funny to me, Like,
you know, there's a few people that I'm like, yeah,
you're like, you have a skill that I do not have,
(10:43):
and so there are a few people that I don't
and I'll still help, not even help. I'll just give
somebody like a tag or give somebody something. But I
won't I'm not I'm not spending more than ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
But that's what good comedians do. That good, really good
comedians give another comedian to tag.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I don't even think it's I actually have gotten very
few tags from me, and the ones I have gotten
weren't from what you'd consider good comedians, what you would
consider good comedians. The audience likes them, but like they're
not snob comedians, you know, yeah, some of it.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I'm a snob.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, of course, So you're an unhappy snob. Sure, you're
a superior being with an inferior or I.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Just happened to be superior. It's not my fault.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So now I just consider myself a comedian. The funny
thing was Jerry Seinfeld did my podcast and he said,
do you ever have that thing when you're on stage
and you go, I'm not a comedian, I'm a writer,
and I was like, yeah, I have it, do you?
And he's like, oh yeah, which is insane because if
if he's not a comedian, then who.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Is he's the poster for comedian. I exactly, Well, I
mean that that's a very interesting thought, and I wonder
I often see performers whose performance style far outpaces their comedy.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yes, there are the Hall of Fame is or the
Mount Rushman, whatever you want to say, is all great
performers who were also great writers. They're they're like the
over the the the the overlap is very small, and
it is like, whoever your favorite comedian is there on
that list of Like Chapelle is an amazing performer and
(12:25):
a fucking amazing right, So it's there are certain people
that Chris same thing. It's like he was a great right,
Chris Rock, great writer and made himself a great performer,
like willed himself into Ellen, great writer, a great performer,
great like has perfect vocal pitch for comedy, sounds like
a flute, and is like acerbic and funny like.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
She's had that for for many nineteen eighty one exactly amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, and it finally led her to England, as we
all saw that coming.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Sure, Yeah, I don't know. It's weird how America turns
on people. Yeah, it's kind of strange. I'm hoping like,
if I get more successful, maybe America will turn on me.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah. I mean it's it's getting late in the day day.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
When you were a young man saying I have these
jokes and they are funny, and they're being rejected, and
I want to prove the the young writer's confidence in
their material is a beautiful thing. But as it as
I get older, as I've gotten older, my confidence my
material has has waned because I've seen things that I absolutely, positively,
(13:36):
one hundred percent thought were going to work over time,
and some of them or many of them don't. Always.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, and you've convinced a lot of people, yeah, that
you and angrily convinced them right that, like, now, fuck you,
this is gonna work.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I told the like I was working for James L. Brooks,
this is gonna work. You're wrong, man, you don't get it.
You don't get it. And then I would I would
insist my joke would work, and you know, sometimes they would,
but a lot of times, like oh sorry, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
When did you on which show there? Worked?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
On the Tracy Almonshaw and The Simpsons.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, but I'm saying, so the Simpsons, you couldn't tell
if a joke worked or not.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Right, Well, we only liked it. If we liked it
it worked for us, and if we got to I've
got to laugh at the read through, we consider that
the audience.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But you also know the read through audience is like not.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah no, but I mean that's we didn't we had
no other gauge.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
But I'm not I'm just wondering, like, where could you
bomb at the Simpsons? That was just that was snobs,
snobby judge.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
One of those things where it's because we rewrote it
everything so many times. Really great jokes died after hearing
it eight times. Yeah, and you just have to rewrite
that joke.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah yeah, So like is that the I mean, obviously
it worked.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
No, but that Tracy almshow was in front of a
live audience, so I would insist this joke would work
or this premise would work, and then if it didn't work,
that's on me.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, And it is confusing. Yeah, when you're sure and
you're like, wait a minute, it was just it's you've
got a map and you're like, no, it was right here, right,
I swear the treasure map says to come this way
and then there's an ax here.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
And but that youthful confidence is fantastic, and I don't
have it so much anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, now you have to have wise old man coming exactly.
Don't be alone with.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I'm told by people I respect that one, and Chris
Rock is one of them that part of being a
great comic is not caring if you bomb, not caring
so much.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, I I don't. It still stings, right, And I
can tell you firsthand of Rock bombs. He does not
like it, like you know, it's like it.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
It is.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The more and longer you do it, the more it's
just like, ah, put it on my tab like it's
I'm still in the in the blacks as so to speak.
So so you know, I don't like bombing. I don't
think it's it's not I could do the you know,
you don't panic. I don't panic. But it's still bombing.
You're still being rejected by a group of people that
(16:24):
you told do you had a you it signed some
sort of contract that t it deal with people. I'll
be funny. And then you you were you're in breach
standing in front of Sometimes it's their fault, man. No,
I mean yeah, yes, but yes occasionally, but like you're
(16:44):
better off thing, it's your fault.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
No, I do. I think it's my fault.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Change a joke you're talking about when you did it
thirty six years ago.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, and when I'm about to do it, it's like,
I'll change it, Joe if it does not work. And
I will absolutely change a joke.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And there's no if you tried three times and it
didn't work twice, it doesn't work right. Yeah, I don't
know what to tell you. I don't know what Chris thinks,
but I can tell you the ship's not going to
work right.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
But he's the point is, do you have to be
okay saying stuff that doesn't work sometimes to just get
past me?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah? I mean I there's a line in Crazy Good
that I did once and it didn't work, and then
I was like, I'm pretty sure that should work. And
I tried it on the special at Worked, which one
it was talking about comedians being like moral arbiters, and
I said, like, at what point did people go like,
what did the clown is great? I know when I
(17:34):
did it once and it didn't work, and I was like,
I don't know, yeah, and it was stupid to do
it on a live on the second taping, but like
cut it.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Out, Yeah, exactly, fantastic that it was great, Thank you here.
But here's the thing. Are you did you always want
to be on stage performing? It doesn't sound like it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I was always under the impression that I was happy
to be a writer, like I genuinely was. So then
once Chappelle show in the way I did, and I
was like, I gotta figure out a way to exist
without dependence on another person. And now I guess it's like,
did I always want to be a full fledged commis?
(18:12):
I don't know. I liked writing. I really did like
writing for people.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Right, But it sounds like because what Chappelle ended the
way it ended, and I have to trust me, I
have to put myself in the driver's seat of what
I'm doing, which is the same thing as Ali Wong's advice,
which is by necessity you kind of become a performer,
but not by necessarily by dream.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Here's what I what what I think I believe about myself?
Are you Are you a John McEnroe fan. Yeah, I've
read his book. I think I've read two of his books,
if you can believe it. But he said that he
always wanted to be on to play team sports, and
then there was something about tennis that he just didn't find.
(18:55):
Singles tennis he didn't care about as much as he
cared about doubles more. He heard about Davis cupmore. He
always he played soccer for as long as he could.
He liked being on a team.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Well, he always seems like a go along, get along
kind of.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
But that's the funny thing. I mean, if he'd only
played a team sport, it might be much happier. So
it was all a cry for help. So so I
it still am of the mind that I want. I'm
always like, hey, let's all live in a dorm together,
let's all live and be on a team, and we're
all supporting each other. And hey, I liked introducing people
(19:30):
to other people and this guy's great and and I
don't so I think that's what I liked about being
a comedy right. Like I remember the first writing job
I got. I was like, man, this is great. It
was so fun. We were all in a bullpen, so cool.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I love I love group writing. I love being on
a staff. I love hanging out with people. And I
made the mistake at one point of thinking these are
my lifelong friends.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Like I still make the mistake.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I have people Conor and Brian is a is A
is a lifelong friend. I have people at the Simpsons
who are lifelong friends. Matt Sellman is a lifelong and
some people who I thought were my friends and turns
out not so.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I've I personally found that very disappointed. It breaks.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
It's a little heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Customers to say very disappointing is an understateable how it
may be.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I'm a little boy, I'm a little child in that
as moments and that really hurts my feelings.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
M yeah, I'm in the very same boat. I might
be the captain of that.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
All right. Well, it's also being part of community. Community
has real value. Yeah, And it's not just the community
of people who can help you or the community of
people who are on the way up and the community
of people who are you know, important, it's the community.
It's the wider community.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
That's what I mean. The reason I'm here. It's like
I don't I don't because I you're Jacob, Like I
don't know like, why wouldn't I there was there was
a comedian who wasn't paying his openers well, and I
had an imaginary conversation with him, as most of my conversations,
and I said, if you're not gonna pay comedians, who
will you pay?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Right? Like?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Who are you? Are you if you're not inclined to
give another person who, like you know what it is
to be a comedian, fucking give them a little money
to help them out, like even just the going rate,
right right, Yeah, But it was kind of like, well,
they're not here for you. That was his I heard
that was his own. It's like, dude, fucking who do
(21:37):
you Like? You'll pay the gardener, but you won't pay
a commed so whatever. So I'm I am predisposed to
give comedians and writers the benefit of doubt.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Who did you?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Who was your your group?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
You came up with?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Well, that's one of my problems is that I don't
my my group was I work the door at a
comedy club in the you know, the boss common to
come in the early nineties and like, so it wasn't
really my group, but there was that I was eighteen,
Chappelle was eighteen. A guy named Jaymore was nineteen, and
(22:13):
then everybody else was like twenty seven, which is a
big difference. And the twenty seven year olds were like
Louis Marin Hotel, John Stewart, Ray Romono, like Warren Hutcherson.
I forget Sarah Silver. Sarah was more, but she was
more of their class. And so it so Dave was
(22:34):
kind of my only classmate. And then but I wasn't
a comedian. There was just like a lot of inxtenuating circumstances.
And then by the time I become a comedian, Chappelle's
show has gone down. So it's like, now I'm like
a wealthy people think producer. So that's not really or
like I'm I'm a I'm kind of Neto time.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Isolating a little bit. You feel a little isolated from.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, I'm not quite in a group, right, I got it.
And then now when people kind of I still don't
think I'm in a group.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
All right, well you're in my group. Thanks, you're in
my group. It's a shitty group. I'm sorry to meet
you for the first I apologize that my group is
so shabby, really, but it's but it's your group if
you want it.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's local.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I was a dormant at the Improv when I was
a young man in eighty two eighty three. It was
around uh well, I've watched Jerry Seinfeld walk by and
I would watch uh. Leno was absolutely there, and Maria
Branford was was actually there sometimes and early days of her.
(23:39):
Richard Lewis was huge, you know that that era of people.
And it was fun to be there, fun to watch.
I got to perform at you know, three in the
morning or whatever, like the shitty shitty hours. But it
was a bad environment, like it's a clubs like that
for a very young person. For me, I felt weird
(24:00):
at why I'm a I'm not. I don't drink, don't
do drugs.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's a problem. And I say that, yeah, I'm not
even being no, I know, like not drinking. That's another
one of my is, Like I don't it's hard. People
don't like having you around.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right, so you feel like a burden to people. And
it just wasn't right down the street right here at
the Groundlings Theater. I was much more at home. That
was much more of my people because we were and
I learned how to write and learned how to write
characters in comedy, but it was just a whole different vibe,
and it was like, Okay, let's not you know, there's
not drunk people bar yelling at you and that kind
(24:40):
of stuff. I had to grow up a little bit
to feel like I'm I'm worthy of hanging out a Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There's a level of hostility at comedy clubs.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
When Chappelle's show is going gangbusters, my audiences for then
I do thirties. I try to use as many snappy.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Phrase upon your Brooklyn Dodgers.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Hat and and Dave Baiales without warning.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
What what's that day?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Like? What's the day day? The day off?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
The day wasn't great? Yeah, it was you at work?
I went, Yeah, I went to work, went was on
set waiting right, and uh, Danny was he He tended
to be late, but this was this was extraordinarily right.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
So then I started texting people, and then I found
out where he was that I couldn't say anything right
where he was, but he wasn't anywhere.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Near So so now so you're caught between your loyalty
today and the studio who needs to find out. So
you're put in an even worse position.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So if you can imagine I didn't really do anything.
I just went home and uh like just waited for
it to unfold.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Okay, And and when it ultimately unfold did the way
it did and said, okay, we're done. How did that go?
It was awful?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Were you blamed?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I was?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I was sort of blamed in that there was an
article where he said that a white person laughed at
him in a way he didn't like. I was the
only white person anyone knew. So I think there were
people that were like, well, it had to be him,
but meanwhile, it wasn't me. And even the person who laughed,
that's just the way the guy laughed, like he'd laughed
(26:30):
like that for two years. So so, uh so I
was sort of blamed, I think vaguely.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
So did you have to give back money? No?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I didn't have to give any but I didn't get
what I what I what have or whatever?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, that's a bummer. What a bummer? It's a bummer.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I mean, it's a it's a I think I think
it qualified for super bummer because.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
When you're doing something and you and I assume you
were enjoying it. I loved it and having a great
time and having some this creative freedom that you almost
never get, Yeah, and have that pulled away from you
is a real Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
It was. I liked writing, I liked I liked I
liked having a sketch show, and I liked the I
liked making sketches and and so it was great to
make sketches with somebody, somebody that I loved and like,
(27:30):
you know, it's like I happen to like playing violin
a strata?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Areus like I like? Like I liked I loved sketches.
Before we did the show, I was scouting. We did
a sketch about Kinkos that I and I scouted locations
to just shoot a sketch at a Kinkos before we
had we were going to do the show.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Like, I just liked sketches. So it was a it
was a cool, cool thing to be able to do.
It was a cool thing to It was a cool opportunity.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
How did you and Dave've ultimately reconcile that?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I don't know that that we've officially reconciled that meaning
like it's one of those kind of like we just
don't talk about it, Okay, it's uh.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I cannot certainly empathize and understand if things are going
nuts and you feel like you must escape and what like,
I understand that. Yeah, but I'm you know, I come
from the school of suffer. Suffer for the sake of
all the people who are working around you, you know, Like.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, I mean there's a part of me that respects
Dave's commitment. They're not a part of me, like a
huge part of me like respects Dave's absolute commitment to quality.
Like I was thinking, yes, say where he would It
would just be like chain me. He would just chain
himself to a tree, right and be like, no, I'm
(28:50):
not doing whatever you whatever you There was a buddy
of ours, Keith Robinson, had a joke back then about
why black people would be bad Al Qaeda hostages because
it'd be like, cut my head off, should chop it off?
I don't give a fuck chop my head off. I'm
not saying what you want me to say.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
So well, that happened to a friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Got his head chopped off, Daniel Pearl. Ye, sorry about that.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's all right, don't blame you anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
There was a time, of course, it was I.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Grew up elementary school, high school. Yeah, he would not
say what they wanted him to say. Ultimately, yep and yep,
so so I people and some Jews. Yes, yeah, so
they have one thing in common al Qaeda. So you know,
I I respect that. But it was a it was very,
(29:42):
very difficult, and I think still hurts me now, right
true truthfully before podcasting we are we Are, Yeah, I
would say still hurts me now, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's a.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
It's a.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's a at this point, it's a dull scar, whereas
for years I would say, may a decade it was
an open pussing wounds.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Okay, so sorry, yes, yeah, I I totally I totally
understand that thing. I've I've the heartbreak of everything in
the shows, little bits of heartbreak everywhere. You know, when
when you get rejected or you try to sell a
show and the show doesn't get picked up, or you
have a show and the show is canceled, and they're
all punches in the gut. This seems like a particularly
(30:27):
rough punchy.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It was like it was also just that it was
so personal, like the whole show was personal, so it
was it was it was, Yeah, there's just nothing good
about it, nothing good about the way it ended. Yeah,
but although although we left a sexy corpse.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
You did right. People love the show and and but
you're still you talk with Dave and Okay, that's good.
That's that's important. That's important, I feel like And again
this goes back to the friendships are more important than
work I do.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I agree, you're you live in the wrong town
for that, But.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Don't be alone with I have a second problem that
you can help me. Okay, you have famously on your
two prior specials before Crazy Good, we're talking about how
difficult a time you were having with depression and getting
(31:41):
through your issues. And again, being a student of yours
and listening to your podcast, I hear that you're you
feel better now in general and that and that specifically
you're feeling better. You did, you know, took a lot
of different Kenemine things. But gratitude.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, the long answer is ayahuasca. Okay. So first ayahuasca,
then yes, it got me to gratitude ayahuasca, and then
weirdly m D M A Okay, ayahuasca opened me up,
and then M D M A uh got me to gratitude.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I have so many friends who have had positive experiences
that way. And a few have had negative experiences.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
On ayahuascar MDMA both yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Uh and sort of like, and I'm I'm interested.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
In ayahuasca is not for the faint of heart. It
can go a lot of different ways. It's gone a
lot of different ways for me.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Okay, well tell me the good of it.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well, the good of it is with ayahuasca was I
got I was an atheist, and then I became Uh,
I felt that god force which I don't in the
in the ceremony, and that's has lasted. Okay, so and
(33:00):
I'm not and it's and his name is Jesus Christ. No,
there's no, there's no, it's non denominational. It's not about it.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It's not Yeah, people talk about this too.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, absolutely and uh. And then m D M A
I was. I took a few times and one of
the times, I was like, you know, forgiving my enemies
and sort of like felt very great and and and
felt very loving. And I was like, well, what was
the difference, what's the difference? Why could I do that?
(33:29):
On M medium? And what I realized was because I
because I I basically didn't have any cortisol in my brain,
and my brain is a it likes is a pretty
good producer of cortisol uh, the stress hormone min too. Yeah,
(33:51):
And I realized, like I have to figure this out.
And the way I did it was I just started
ignoring my my negative thoughts. I was just like it
straight up, like go no, thank you, or just some way. Well,
they say.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
That if you take ketmine or other forms of mdm A,
that that it allows you to separate out.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
It takes the default mode network offline.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
It resets everything, and so you're allowed to create new
pathways and new thoughts and new ways of being.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
But it's not effortless at all. It is like I
have to now I journal. You know. I was talking
to Ryan Wilson about it on his Somebody's podcast and
I was talking about how Islam has the right idea
about praying four times a day and he goes, well,
why don't you gratitude journal four times a day? It
was like fine, right, And I've been doing that, okay
(34:41):
for over a year now, and it's really helpful. It's
like having a it's like self coaching.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
So what makes you You've gone through this exhaustive search
and you found some measure of peace, which is fantastic
and congratulations. You know, I salute you and try to
walk in those same footsteps at some point. But uh,
what brings you to the insight that you had to
do that and the insight I hear when you talk
(35:10):
to people on your podcast. You can sit with somebody
and identify kinda pretty quickly who they are, kind of
what's driving them, what the history was that got into
the thing. Like, that's pretty interesting that you have that ability.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, a lot of psychotherapy. Okay, uh, better help slash yourself,
betterhelp dot com slash. They are not paying a dime
for the show.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Health is not saying that's the day people are not
nobody nobody, Yeah the uh the yeah that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I think that's pattern recognition, probably just like a little
bit of autism, and then there's a.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Certain amount of empathy and there's a certain amount of
of putting yourself in the other person's head that that's
a that's a that's a little trick of the trade.
That's a little thing that you can do that that
that's kind of nice.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I think maybe, I mean, I think that's probably partially
being a writer. I mean, I think that is pattern
recognition of like or or I'll give myself more credit.
Maybe it's a theory of mind of like what would
I what would I think in this situation? Like or
or curiosity about how someone comes to a you know,
(36:31):
realization or decision. That's what's great about novels, honestly, is
it's the only form where you are inside of somebody. Right,
It's not just voiceover.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah I do. I do first person narration only in
all my TV shows.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Fantastic. But even that's a dialogue, right, I know. But
even first person narration is just like I had to
get to the docks. It's not like to find my
wife's murder. There's no there's It's so shallow.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
It's stupid. No, I know. I teach writing courses. I say, please,
don't ever have a narrator.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I don't mind a narrator. It is, it is organizic.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Don't have your tough characters talk out loud to themselves.
That's a cheat.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So I've had this discussion of people before, I talk
out loud to myself.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I don't care. I don't want to see it in
a movie.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
It's like, why not?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
It feels like a writing It's just an easy writing cheat.
Even if it's real. Even though it's real that sometimes
in a magical phone call comes exactly the right time
you need it to, you don't do it because it
looks like bad writing.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So you don't like when somebody says, where am I?
That kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah? Yeah, they wake up in a strange land, and
then are you done with mine? We know, we know
you're confused at your location? We got it, we got that.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, you like when they look at their hands and going,
and now that my friend is good writing, I want
to actually.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
You want to see it all right? So there are
questions that people have sent in. I love this time
for question time.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I love it is.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
So what makes something funny?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I still don't know. No, I mean, I don't know.
It's a thousand things to make something funny, Like it's
impossible to even answer that.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Surprise, surprise, hyper you know, yeah, extending situations finding?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Is this a sleep aid? Yes? This is melatonin, verbal melotones.
Maybe I don't know a bunch of if you, I
don't know, I usually don't. I'm having a hostile response
to this, and I don't I don't know.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
What's funny enough? Let me ask and change the question
what's funny enough to be in your act. It doesn't,
It doesn't. No joke is going to be different. And
this you might relate to.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
This is like level of difficulty and original thought. That's
the I think those are the two as a right comedian,
those are the two things like you aspire to, at
least I aspire to of like have I seen this?
And if I have, is this different enough? And or
(39:14):
is it not derivative? Because at a certain point you've
kind of warned Michaels had said something. I'm sure he
says it all the time, but said it to me
one time, which is he's like, it was a sketch
and I'd seen the sketch six times. I'd probably written
it myself twice. Like, so there are sort of formats
or whatever. But but original thought and and level of
(39:41):
difficulty is it? Is it like a complex structure.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
So you're aiming at quality? Yeah, I would call that quality.
But how about response? Does if a joke there's some
jokes that that tear down the house and some jokes
that get a milder I.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Don't a joke that terrorist in the house is the
best joke that I that's I.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I have no what will you accept?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
In fact, I used to argue with Sure about that,
which is like, I don't want to nobly bomb. There's
no but just like.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
They're like a medium laugh.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Like a New Yorker cartoon laugh. No, that's a no
laugh at all.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
That's a h h yeah, but a laugh like a
moderate laugh versus a big laugh.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
If it's in the service of a big laugh, where
it's around a big laugh, then keep it. But otherwise
I'm my favorite story, and I think it's true. As
Mike Myers used to just edit Austin Powers movies by
audio of like he would just send like the the
the editors would get the audio of the test screening. Right,
(40:44):
You're like, all right, well that we have to take
this part right, that would be the brometer. It's like
it either works or it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Obviously there's grades gradients within that.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
But you know, three mics was a creative take on
stand up special, very entertaining. What comedian dead or alive
would Neil like to see performed the three meg format.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
There was some talk with Netflix about having other people
do it. Uh, I mean what I think people A
lot of people have done a version of it and
without call I mean the people have gotten more emo
in stand up. I mean I'd love to see great
(41:27):
comics to it. Dave Chris, Louie Mulaney, Jim Jefferies, Bill Burr,
Ali Wanda Sarah, George carl And, Bill Hicks, Richard Pryor,
Richard Jenny. Who do I mortsl I genuine I love Mortzal,
but but yeah, so I would like any comedian worth
(41:50):
their salt to do it.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Was mort Sal like who is the like?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Growing up? Like, well, Mortsaul is the apparently he was
like a pain in the ass. But but but in
terms of like what he did, he like invented a
kind of the way people started doing stand up. He
was like the the the the James Dean of stand
up in that like he did it in a new way,
(42:15):
or the Marlon Brando. And and then he volunteered to
help solve the Kennedy assassination, which was on his own dime,
which is like, I don't know, I don't, I can't.
That seems like better than doing a USO tour, I
guess in terms of but it was because he liked
(42:35):
I don't think you're saying the way you said, I
guess I'm assuming you consider it like a conspiracy theorist.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
No, I just like I think I think it still
hasn't been solved, Like it's it's one of those things
where like, Okay, you can devote your life to that,
or you can try to be funny. I would you know, Yeah, fine,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I see it as like he knew the guy and
was like, I don't think he saw it as like
a continuation of his comedy. I just think it's if
you're inspired, I'm inspired by the fact that he was like,
I'm going to do that now. Or it's like Dick Gregory,
like being a comedian then being a civil rights activist
and then being a dietitian and just like whatever you're
(43:12):
inspired to do and you do it, that shit's cool. Yeah,
I agree, Instead of like I gotta I gotta do
a sitcom, I got it, like all the stuff you're
supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Right, Well, you're not supposed to do sitcoms anymore than
single camera free of that, no laugh track, turn the tables,
Jay and let Neil ask you what he'd ask you
if you were on blocks. Well, that's unfair. That's that
takes research.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
You got people and blocks.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
You have people fill out of form people people.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
I make people feel right? What the I made? I
made Ken Burns do it?
Speaker 3 (43:43):
I love? It's pretty great. He did it. Yeah, it's
it's great. Are people ever unforthcoming? Well?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I think like certain people just don't want to do it,
and but I can. I kind of know their blocks anyway,
So they don't want to. They just I just didn't
want I don't want to bug Bill Burke fucking just
screaming at me. So but I we did it. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
You are not a traditional looking performer. You kind of
look more normal, like a normal person. I don't know
what that means. It's not a does it help your
comedy or do you have to do things to compensate.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Jesus Christ? Is this from a surgeon? Surgeon? Maybe Beverly
Hills nine o two.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
I don't know. I mean, like comedians generally speaking, there's
a wide.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
For these beautiful comedians. Am I am I as gorgeous
as saying Chris Rock or Dave. I'm not a model
like Bill Burr.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
He goes to more of what the what you said
at the beginning, were you sort of like charisma.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Hey, Like, do I go out and go like it's
star timed? Like I don't wear a cape to the
side of the stage. But I think people don't. I
think if you present yourself uh charisma or with you know,
(45:04):
integrity or something, I don't think. I don't think people
care what you look like? What's your private rather you look?
I try to look as good as I can. Sorry, listener, Uh,
but I don't. I don't think it helps or hurts.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
All right, Well, now we have listener mail.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Now it's time for listener.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Man, dear Jay and guest. We all have special skills
that help us in life. We use them to move ahead,
but as we go through life, those same skills can
prevent us from living our best life. What's your superpower
that is also your kryptonite. Here's my superpower that's also
my kryptonite. I have the ability to step back from
(45:44):
a situation and observe the world, and that kind of
helps me be a writer. It helps me protect myself
from danger and other things. But it also prevents me
from being all in in emotional situations sometimes.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
So like my wife, there's a level of remove.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Yes, and that's it's complaint I've gotten from my certainly
my wife and from other people's like, well, you're you
know there's something about you that's not fully all.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Well, that's another thing that I've been discussing with my
with my lady, is you know I'm not Maybe I'm
not the empathy machine. Maybe that's your role, right, Maybe
I'm the I have my own list of attributes. Right,
it's a joke. I didn't crazy good of Like it's
like a video game character of Like if I have
(46:33):
fifty points, I'm not gonna have points attributed to one characteristic.
I'm not gonna have for another one. I have a
lot of good attributes right speed with which I can
get to empathy about your anger at me not good? Right,
it's not gonna be good. But let's look at the
good stuff. And I'm not saying I'm not dismissing. I'm not,
(46:54):
but I'm just saying, like, but.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
It's hard to get through the fire of hearing the
criticism and it kind of expells.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
And my first instinct is who did this to you?
It's I'm not going to go I'm so sorry this
anonymous man did it. I did it right, and I
don't agree that I did it.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Exactly right, and then listening apology for something that you
don't agree you did.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yes, I don't very upset, Well, how could I possibly
do that? How could I possibly do that right?
Speaker 3 (47:22):
My wife wants an apology and then an apology after
the apology that sounds more. Yeah, since here, so.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
I to answer the my my vert my end of
it probably a similar thing of like being analytical and
being you know, anthropological about something.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
But it makes us smart and curious and gives us
so many other things. So what if we don't connect
him only to people on a deep level you like
the money or not exactly chi Ching ladies, Well, thank
you for being here. This is a great honor for
me and a slight honor for you. I don't know
if you accept it as such, but it's it's really great.
(48:11):
I'm a huge fan of your writing and of your
performing and of your podcast and all the great It's great,
and thank you for being here. Please uh come back
next time and don't be alone. Go have fun with
somebody in person, all right, talk to you later. Bye.
Don't be alone with j
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